Post by: Reaper527 on January 11, 2005, 08:16:00 PM
Post by: cmiz on January 11, 2005, 08:32:00 PM
Post by: SSJ4Gohan on January 11, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: blah101 on January 11, 2005, 09:14:00 PM
Post by: cmiz on January 11, 2005, 09:23:00 PM
edit: as an afterthought...was nkpatcher built with XDK? just curious
Post by: krayzie on January 11, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
Post by: blah101 on January 12, 2005, 06:29:00 PM
QUOTE(krayzie @ Jan 12 2005, 06:40 AM)
while nkpatcher or the hacked fonts are no illegal codes themselves they are illegal to use them. Everything that is used to circumvent copyprotection is illegal. The only legal softmodding is using the linux mechfonts that will ONLY run linux.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: cmiz on January 12, 2005, 07:15:00 PM
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well...nkpatcher isn't a particularly intricate program so i don't really know if it required xdk, and i'd listen to krayzie because he knows his stuff....but i'm curious to know about the building of nkpatcher too, xdk or no? and i'm pretty sure that the fonts weren't xdk seeing as they're fonts as opposed to applications...but i'd be interested in learning about those too.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: dudeman456 on January 13, 2005, 09:39:00 AM
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This was discuss in the past, one thing no Company(Defense Excluded) can tell you that you can not modify your property. If have a dream that inspires me with a way to create a softmod from scrath(No MS code), it is perfectly legal for anyone that owns their xbox to use it. When you start doing something that is not supported by MS, they have the right to not support you(technically,ect), if you decide to make copies of game with your new setup you just broke the law.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 10:21:00 AM
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that last statement is perfectly true....if you don't live in the US. getting into a debate about laws isn't really going to work in a forum that touches so many different countries because each one obviously has a slightly different set of laws.
if you ARE from the US, then you apperantly haven't heard of the digital millenium copyright act (a VERY questionable law which actually violates several existing laws...but hey, that's what happens when big corporations can buy votes in the government). since modding your xbox would allow you to use illegally copied games, it is illegal to mod it, even if you had no intention of using illegally copied games. also the "illegally copied games" part doesn't even matter because technically, under the dmca, you can't copy your games even if you own them. so anything that would allow you to play backup games is illegal. welcome to america, land of the....expensive? haha
edit: don't take that as me being against modding (i think that you should be allowed to)....i'm just stating the facts
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: Angerwound on January 13, 2005, 10:29:00 AM
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NKPatcher as well as the fonts are written completely independant of the xdk. They are coded in ASM and the sources are provided with each release. None of rmenhal's code was taken from anything copyrwritten by MS.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: krayzie on January 13, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
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see also this topic
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 11:16:00 AM
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i kinda assumed that all along but didn't have the facts to back it up...thanks for the enlightening info a/w and krayzie
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: dudeman456 on January 13, 2005, 05:23:00 PM
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Actully I'm from the U.S., as you can notice from the location stated(from the side profile), (no rudeness intended, ofcourse)as for the DMCA, by not letting me softmod my Xbox, MS would violating the DMCA, the 'Fair Use' concession.
Which is why when Xbox moding was advocated on U.S. Television for the Purpose Of Proctecting Xbox Software From The Possible Damage Optain From Kids. The (Yours/My) Xbox ends its DMCA participation when the DVD-Rom fails. The DMCA definition of the Xbox does not apply to a box that does not perform Xbox actions.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 05:33:00 PM
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really? that's very interesting!
i always thought it was a before: doesn't allow illegally copied games
after: allows illegally copied games
therefore: illegal
i didn't know that my xbox wasn't really an xbox as far as they were concerned...
you seem to know what you're talking about...and so i'm going to hassle you for more info....i thought that the dmca was actually in violation of the fair use laws because it said that if something was encrypted, breaking that encryption (even if it was for a backup of something you owned) was illegal. i thought that was the basis for the whole dvd-jon guy thing. am i completely wrong on that?
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: DaddyJ on January 13, 2005, 06:04:00 PM
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Your are stating that it is perfectly legal for you to modify your xbox to play backup games, because your DVD drive failed to work.
Hmmmm.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: dudeman456 on January 20, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
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How am I suppose to load games when I can not load them thru the DVD-Rom, I'm not suppose to open my Xbox that would violate something.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: cmiz on January 20, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
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this is sort of an oldie....but yes, i agree....and if you own a game, should you be allowed to back it up onto your hard drive or make another copy of it? YES! you SHOULD be able to...but in this thread, i was just stating the fact that under the dmca, it is technically illegal to copy games (even if you own them, because the games were made in a format not meant to be copied) and also if you make it so that your xbox can play backup games, that is illegal too (even if you use nothing but retail discs in it, the potential is there making it illegal under the dmca).
as for the whole dvd not working making modding legal issue....i was lead to believe that once the dvd drive does not work, then the product is either through its standard consumer use life (aka you should throw it out), or needs to be repaired by an ms certified person/business. not doing this will void the warranty, why? because it's illegal. as far as going into a store and buying an xbox and assuming it will work like an xbox, that's what a warranty is for. if you buy it and it stops working before a reasonable amount of time, you bring it back and they'll fix it. (well in theory anyways...ms is a little underhanded about this aspect)
again, don't get me wrong, if i were you i'd go right ahead and mod my xbox (heck, my dvd drive still works and mine is modded and packing a 120 gig hd) but it's still TECHNICALLY illegal.
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Title: Softmodding Violating Copyright
Post by: DaddyJ on January 20, 2005, 06:33:00 PM
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Post by: cmiz on January 12, 2005, 07:15:00 PM
Post by: dudeman456 on January 13, 2005, 09:39:00 AM
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 10:21:00 AM
if you ARE from the US, then you apperantly haven't heard of the digital millenium copyright act (a VERY questionable law which actually violates several existing laws...but hey, that's what happens when big corporations can buy votes in the government). since modding your xbox would allow you to use illegally copied games, it is illegal to mod it, even if you had no intention of using illegally copied games. also the "illegally copied games" part doesn't even matter because technically, under the dmca, you can't copy your games even if you own them. so anything that would allow you to play backup games is illegal. welcome to america, land of the....expensive? haha
edit: don't take that as me being against modding (i think that you should be allowed to)....i'm just stating the facts
Post by: Angerwound on January 13, 2005, 10:29:00 AM
Post by: krayzie on January 13, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 11:16:00 AM
Post by: dudeman456 on January 13, 2005, 05:23:00 PM
Which is why when Xbox moding was advocated on U.S. Television for the Purpose Of Proctecting Xbox Software From The Possible Damage Optain From Kids. The (Yours/My) Xbox ends its DMCA participation when the DVD-Rom fails. The DMCA definition of the Xbox does not apply to a box that does not perform Xbox actions.
Post by: cmiz on January 13, 2005, 05:33:00 PM
i always thought it was a before: doesn't allow illegally copied games
after: allows illegally copied games
therefore: illegal
i didn't know that my xbox wasn't really an xbox as far as they were concerned...
you seem to know what you're talking about...and so i'm going to hassle you for more info....i thought that the dmca was actually in violation of the fair use laws because it said that if something was encrypted, breaking that encryption (even if it was for a backup of something you owned) was illegal. i thought that was the basis for the whole dvd-jon guy thing. am i completely wrong on that?
Post by: DaddyJ on January 13, 2005, 06:04:00 PM
QUOTE(dudeman456)
Which is why when Xbox moding was advocated on U.S. Television for the Purpose Of Proctecting Xbox Software From The Possible Damage Optain From Kids. The (Yours/My) Xbox ends its DMCA participation when the DVD-Rom fails. The DMCA definition of the Xbox does not apply to a box that does not perform Xbox actions.
Your are stating that it is perfectly legal for you to modify your xbox to play backup games, because your DVD drive failed to work.
Hmmmm.
Post by: dudeman456 on January 20, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: cmiz on January 20, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
as for the whole dvd not working making modding legal issue....i was lead to believe that once the dvd drive does not work, then the product is either through its standard consumer use life (aka you should throw it out), or needs to be repaired by an ms certified person/business. not doing this will void the warranty, why? because it's illegal. as far as going into a store and buying an xbox and assuming it will work like an xbox, that's what a warranty is for. if you buy it and it stops working before a reasonable amount of time, you bring it back and they'll fix it. (well in theory anyways...ms is a little underhanded about this aspect)
again, don't get me wrong, if i were you i'd go right ahead and mod my xbox (heck, my dvd drive still works and mine is modded and packing a 120 gig hd) but it's still TECHNICALLY illegal.
Post by: DaddyJ on January 20, 2005, 06:33:00 PM