Post by: feflicker on July 02, 2003, 01:19:00 PM
But don't worry, I am sure MS$ will push down a live update to remedy this, or start putting a non-live update on all discs. I think we can all agree they are going to have to do something
Post by: Jreb892 on July 02, 2003, 01:47:00 PM
Post by: powerben5000 on July 02, 2003, 01:58:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I hope that xbox will not die like dreamcast did. |
I wouldn't worry about that. The biggest nail in Dreamcast's coffin came when Sega announced that they would no longer produce/support it... M$ has said repeatedly that they're in the console market for the long term...
Post by: Jse on July 02, 2003, 02:13:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I hope that xbox will not die like dreamcast did. |
maby the games will but i dont use my xbox for games just homebrew programs like xbmp ava and for emus
and the dc scene isnt dead new programs are still developed and homebrew games are being developed at the same level as commercial games
http://boob.co.uk
Post by: anderj6 on July 02, 2003, 02:57:00 PM
Could not have said it better myself.
People need to stop flaming noobs for not knowing as much because they were noobs not to long ago.
Alot of these geeks must think they are better then other people just because they know a few things about hacking the xbox.
Post by: BenJeremy on July 02, 2003, 03:34:00 PM
| QUOTE (pez @ Jul 2 2003, 07:30 PM) | ||
There's a HUGE difference in accessibility between the Complex Loader and a modchip (even a pre-installed Matrix). The Complex Loader doesn't cost the user anything to install AND it doesn't require opening up the console. Despite what you might think, I have no high horse to get off of. I'm merely pointing out that removing those two factors (cost and effort) could easily bring in a huge flood of attention to the mod scene which could have severe negative results. Joe User might balk at the idea of anybody opening up his Xbox especially if it cost money, but if a *free* software modification were available with an automated installer, I'm sure he and all his buddies would be jumping on. That's the sort of widespread attention that could cause MS to stop looking the other direction. |
If you think that's bad, wait until Friday.
I suspect the exploit that might be revealed will effectively make this hack a moot point.
...and unfortunately, it may also ruin XBL with a 'true' ability to run backups on a modified Xbox.
Post by: vidgms4me on July 02, 2003, 03:45:00 PM
| QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Jul 2 2003, 07:34 PM) | ||||
If you think that's bad, wait until Friday. I suspect the exploit that might be revealed will effectively make this hack a moot point. ...and unfortunately, it may also ruin XBL with a 'true' ability to run backups on a modified Xbox. |
BJ, how exactly do you know so much abou these exploits? Not accusing you of anything, just wondering if there is a big news source or anything?
Did I mention I'm a happy Mxm user?
Post by: BenJeremy on July 02, 2003, 04:04:00 PM
| QUOTE (vidgms4me @ Jul 2 2003, 07:45 PM) | ||||||
BJ, how exactly do you know so much abou these exploits? Not accusing you of anything, just wondering if there is a big news source or anything? Did I mention I'm a happy Mxm user? |
Well, I hear things, plus I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the underlying system.
**IF** the rumors are true, along with my own logical speculation, the breakthrough will be related to something interesting that's been worked on here in X-S' forums over the last couple weeks - but the crackers obviously are not THOSE people. Either the breakthrough was inspired by/a result of a utility app created for that research - OR simply an unusual coincidence.
If my guess is correct, you 'invade' the Xbox with the 007-type exploit, but no longer need it after the initial hack.... yet the Xbox BIOS is not modified after the dust settles.
This would likely be a bad thing.
XBL is slick.... it's the IDEAL business model for consumers!! Love 'em or hate 'em, M$ has a kick ass plan - pay ONE PRICE and enjoy Live enabled games in whatever way you want. compare this to Sony's asinine "ala Carte" plan that has you paying different publishers for different games.
Want to play three different XBL games in a month? You can for the single monthly payment... play those SAME three games under Sony's plan? Make that THREE Monthly payments!! EA likes Sony's plan, because they are greedy bastards and only see the short term picture.
Anyway, I'd hate to see XBL get hammered. It would indeed be a bad thing.
Post by: ZakMcRofl on July 02, 2003, 04:42:00 PM
BenJeremy was probably refering to the following possible method:
1) Use 007 to get access to Xbox HDD
2) Modify original dash in a way that allows it to be run out-of-the-box (i.e. without 007 hack).
This is the hard part, since any change in that xbe would break the signature. This is why BenJeremy refered to a thread in this forum about hacking the scripting language of the dash:
Original Dash hacking
Maybe it would be possible to exploit the script language somehow in order to run something. But then again, this "something" would need to signed as well.
So what I think is we are missing one major step from always using 007 to running non-signed code right at bootup.
Another thing that is interesting is that the Complex Loader comes out just a few days before the 4th of july. Maybe it will be used in the "final" solution and _someone_ decided to release it earlier. Maybe to draw some attention, who knows.
Obviously a part of any solution would be replacing the original bios which is still in the memory. This can be done by the loader and that is why that loader is a major breakthrough.
Now all we need is a way to run that loader at bootup...
Post by: BenJeremy on July 02, 2003, 04:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (ZakMcRofl @ Jul 2 2003, 08:42 PM) |
| Just to clear things up: BenJeremy was probably refering to the following possible method: 1) Use 007 to get access to Xbox HDD 2) Modify original dash in a way that allows it to be run out-of-the-box (i.e. without 007 hack). This is the hard part, since any change in that xbe would break the signature. This is why BenJeremy refered to a thread in this forum about hacking the scripting language of the dash: Original Dash hacking Maybe it would be possible to exploit the script language somehow in order to run something. But then again, this "something" would need to signed as well. So what I think is we are missing one major step from always using 007 to running non-signed code right at bootup. Another thing that is interesting is that the Complex Loader comes out just a few days before the 4th of july. Maybe it will be used in the "final" solution and _someone_ decided to release it earlier. Maybe to draw some attention, who knows. Obviously a part of any solution would be replacing the original bios which is still in the memory. This can be done by the loader and that is why that loader is a major breakthrough. Now all we need is a way to run that loader at bootup... |
Well, mind you, it's purely my speculation.
They talked about a "chain of new exploits" - which implies there may be a weakness to be exploited by placing data files on the Xbox (XIP?) in a manner that would cause them to overflow similar to the 007 hack and manage to trigger executable code.
Um, I'm not saying any more, as what's occurred to me is an obvious answer, once the above is accomplished.
Post by: crapdude2001 on July 02, 2003, 05:42:00 PM
Post by: BenJeremy on July 02, 2003, 05:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (Nathan561 @ Jul 2 2003, 09:47 PM) |
| Hey BJ, do you know if these "Live Hackers" are the bunch who threatened M$? A severe piracy threat to Xbox Live is almost enough to get even M$ sweating..  |
I don't think the 'blackmailers' are the rumored Live hackers (which I haven't mentioned, but they apparently, and logically must exist).
Spoofing XBL really shouldn't be too hard, not that I'm going to help anybody do it. I'm absolutely positive SOMEBODY has managed that feat a long time ago. Severe peer pressure is what's keeping it under wraps, to be sure.
Post by: bb07 on July 02, 2003, 08:08:00 PM
so get ready for some stupid questions(is there a boot disk or how do i get
my ps2 games to work on the xbox,etc)
Post by: Ridley on July 02, 2003, 11:07:00 PM
The only people who will be hurt by this are mod-chip manufacturers and retailers.
P.S: I just hope that if there is ever a hack that is considered "too powerful" that people won't try to cover it up or hide it to save their own special interests.
Post by: ZakMcRofl on July 03, 2003, 02:15:00 AM
| QUOTE (NeoKast @ Jul 3 2003, 05:53 AM) |
| When you say all you have to do is get that loader to load on boot, why is that any different than with 007 AUF, other than taking less time? It's not like the loader still wouldn't alter the bios in memory, making it detectable on !Live. |
Well its very different as you wouldn't have to buy 007 and the memory card, you could simply install the hack once and you're set. I don't know how long the 007 method takes, but I imagine it to be quite annoying to wait and press a view buttons every time you boot up your xbox.
Post by: NeoKast on July 03, 2003, 07:21:00 AM
Good point about not needing 007 AUF anymore.
I just assume you'd want it anyways.
Post by: pez on July 03, 2003, 10:53:00 AM
| QUOTE (Ridley @ Jul 3 2003, 12:07 AM) |
| The exploit is not a bad thing. If M$ was gonna "come down" on the scene, then it would of done it already. Although, there is really nothing illegal taking place anyway. |
Flashing a hacked MS BIOS onto the TSOP to bypass security is an illegal violation of the DMCA.
I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing that the coders who write software to assist in that sort of activity are also in violation of the DMCA.
Post by: thetruth on July 03, 2003, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: nautiazn85 on July 03, 2003, 06:49:00 PM
| QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Jul 3 2003, 12:48 AM) | ||
Well, mind you, it's purely my speculation. They talked about a "chain of new exploits" - which implies there may be a weakness to be exploited by placing data files on the Xbox (XIP?) in a manner that would cause them to overflow similar to the 007 hack and manage to trigger executable code. Um, I'm not saying any more, as what's occurred to me is an obvious answer, once the above is accomplished. |
Wow, you should be a fortune teller.
Post by: Liquid Oxygen on July 03, 2003, 09:31:00 PM
This is really gonna get ugly on the scene, I can assure you of that. And it will ruin it for the ppl who had games on thier HD's and were buying games to play on Live which was the smart thing to do.
Post by: BenJeremy on July 05, 2003, 12:13:00 PM
| QUOTE (nautiazn85 @ Jul 3 2003, 10:49 PM) | ||||
Wow, you should be a fortune teller. |
Yeah, well, the font (XPR) and DB weaknesses were bound to be exploited eventually.
007 AUF was the foot in the door, and Free-X found the icing on the cake, with a variation on the now accessable dashboard.
Gee... I go away for two days and the whole Xbox "scene" has bee turned on end!!
Post by: feflicker on July 05, 2003, 12:23:00 PM
Don't expect anything soon. I am sure there will be a project plan to combat this, and it takes time, even if this is code red for MS$ to plan the counter attack. (They will want to get it right first try...)
Post by: drunkinstoner on July 06, 2003, 11:52:00 AM
