Post by: Diablo1399 on March 21, 2005, 01:02:00 AM
I for one don't want that decision to be overturned (ie changing it so that modchips are made illegal) so I want your help to compile a list of legitimate, legal uses of modchips. If we can demonstrate that modchips have substantial non copyright-infringing uses, it will be much harder for Sony to have them outlawed.
Here are the rules:
1) You can submit as many ideas as you like, but please read the existing list so we don't get too many similar ideas (be reasonably specific so we don't get overlap). Keep count by adding 1), 2), 3) etc to the beginning of your idea.
2) You can be as original and creative as you like, but the idea is to demonstrate why it should be legal to sell/buy/install a modchip in your console in Australia. "Throwing modchips like frisbees," while technically a legal use, isn't really what I'm after.
3) Because this is Sony we're talking about, feel free to list uses specific to PS2s or even Nintendo GameCubes.
Here's a couple broad categories to get us started:
--Modchips can be used to install Xbox Linux (this is especially poignant, thanks to the Australian National University's involvement in the Xbox Linux project). Feel free to add other uses for Xbox Linux eg home mail server.
--Modchips allow hobbyists to develop homebrew games/software.
--Modchips can control LEDs and other cool case mods.
--Modchips negate the artifical trade barriers put up by DVD region codes (controversial, but worth adding)
--Modchips allow legal media files to be played on TV
Now, let's get as many ideas as we can!
Post by: acemilo on March 21, 2005, 02:28:00 AM
Post by: Diablo1399 on March 21, 2005, 03:00:00 AM
If we can come up with a substantial number of legitimate uses, that will form a credible case in defense of modchips.
And hell, even if it doesn't make any difference, what have we lost? 3 minutes of time? Quit being so negative
Post by: X-ECUTIONER on March 21, 2005, 09:58:00 AM
Post by: daser1220 on March 21, 2005, 10:13:00 AM
anyway, nothing we can do about it. every use you came up for modchips requires a hacked bios and always will. sorry!
Post by: Artifex on March 21, 2005, 11:35:00 AM
1) None of the things he pointed out require a modified firmware image. Many users choose to use a modified firmware image out of laziness or convenience, but it is in no way a requirement.
QUOTE
--Modchips can be used to install Xbox Linux (this is especially poignant, thanks to the Australian National University's involvement in the Xbox Linux project). Feel free to add other uses for Xbox Linux eg home mail server.
Xbox-linux can be run using the Cromwell firmware, which is compleatly legal
QUOTE
--Modchips allow hobbyists to develop homebrew games/software.
Homebrew games/software can be written without the use of the XDK, which result in fully legal binaries. A great example of this is the OpenXDK Doom port. Now, of course, you're going to say "but this still requires a modified firmware image to run them...." which I'll get to on point #2.
Also, many xbox-specific applications have been written for use with xbox-linux.
QUOTE
--Modchips can control LEDs and other cool case mods.
This is actually done within XeniumOS (on the Xenium, anyways) not a modified bios.
QUOTE
--Modchips negate the artifical trade barriers put up by DVD region codes (controversial, but worth adding)
Not only that, but they also allow use of import games (not just movies) and even import consoles. (Why should only the Japanese get all the really nice limited edition consoles)
QUOTE
--Modchips allow legal media files to be played on TV
Currently this only applies to xbox-linux, but we could also one day see media players such as XBMC compiled without the XDK.
2. Modified firmware images are not, in and of themselves, illegal. It is the redistribution of those images which is illegal. If a user were to copy the firmware image off of his box, modify it himself, and put that "hacked" image onto his chip in order to run legal homebrew, xbox-linux, etc.... no laws would be being broken. This falls well within the fair-use clause of the Berne Convention, and fits into the interoperability clause(s) of the DMCA and similar legislation.
Just to re-iterate with slightly different wording... The illegal thing about "hacked" firmware image is that they're redistributed in full. It would be legitimate for someone to produce a patch file or instructions on how to modify a STOCK firmware image, and would also be compleatly legitimate for a user to apply that instruction to his own firmware image, for the purpose of running legal homebrew/linux.
3. Mod-chips themselves are not intended to be used in any illegal way. It is the end-user who decides to use them for good or ill, not the designers/producers/distributors of those chips. The designers/producers/distributors can not make any decisions on behalf of the customer. (Actually, I should say "should not" as some producers DO indeed coerce the end user into illegal actions.... but such producers deserve these sorts of crackdowns.)
4. Most of what I've said here is aligned towards the xbox. There are some important technical differences between xbox chips and ps2 chips, especially earlier ps2 chips, which do indeed make the ps2 chips quite a bit more "questionably illegal."
5. While fundamental ideals are universal, specific wording of legislation changes drastically with jurisdiction, so acemilo has a bit of a point. American law is different from Australian law is different from UK law is different from Canadian law is different from..... It would be best to consult a local copyright attourny who is well versed in relevant case law before attempting to do any of this sort of validation of modchips.
Just thought I'd chime in on what is inevitably a very controversial subject.
--Arti
Post by: Diablo1399 on March 21, 2005, 03:50:00 PM
Keep in mind that there is no DMCA in Australia. Distributing hacked bioses may in fact be legal (I'm not a lawyer; I don't know). For this excercise, let's assume that it IS legal to flash your chip with a hacked MS bios.
Post by: acemilo on March 21, 2005, 04:26:00 PM
QUOTE(Diablo1399 @ Mar 21 2005, 10:56 PM)
Thanks for your post, Artifex.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: daser1220 on March 21, 2005, 05:30:00 PM
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oh yeah, i forgot all about linux! how could i...
anyway, yeah now alot more things can be done with a mod chip legally. forgot all about that. could we create a petition or something?
EDIT: sorry diablo, i just now read your whole post.
so yeah we should really try to stop this cause you know sony (or anybody else) isn't going to stop there.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 01:24:00 PM
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Post by: daser1220 on March 21, 2005, 05:30:00 PM
anyway, yeah now alot more things can be done with a mod chip legally. forgot all about that. could we create a petition or something?EDIT: sorry diablo, i just now read your whole post.
so yeah we should really try to stop this cause you know sony (or anybody else) isn't going to stop there.
Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 01:24:00 PM
QUOTE(Diablo1399 @ Mar 21 2005, 10:56 PM)
Thanks for your post, Artifex.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 01:25:00 PM
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Also, btw... I don't believe X-S is based out of the U.S..... just for future reference.
--Artifex
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: [Propwash] on March 22, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
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I have a perfectly legal (I think) way of using a modchip. Something I did just this week.
My nephew's xbox was flashing red on startup, signs of a faulty TSOP. Luckily, he had a 1.3 box, so slapping a solderless adapter in there, along with my working xenium and an eeprom backup, allowed me to restore his to full functionality, at which point I promptly removed the mod chip and he was back to a working, full retail box.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: Diablo1399 on March 22, 2005, 05:03:00 PM
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Keep em coming
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 11:57:00 PM
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Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 01:25:00 PM
--Artifex
Post by: [Propwash] on March 22, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
My nephew's xbox was flashing red on startup, signs of a faulty TSOP. Luckily, he had a 1.3 box, so slapping a solderless adapter in there, along with my working xenium and an eeprom backup, allowed me to restore his to full functionality, at which point I promptly removed the mod chip and he was back to a working, full retail box.
Post by: Diablo1399 on March 22, 2005, 05:03:00 PM
Keep em coming
Post by: Artifex on March 22, 2005, 11:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Diablo1399 @ Mar 23 2005, 12:09 AM)
Okay, this thread hasn't gone where I wanted it to. Let's try to get away from discussing the specifics of copyright law.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: mrjkwik on March 28, 2005, 01:18:00 AM
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can't an xbox be used as an ftp server utilizing the xenium ice?
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: acemilo on March 28, 2005, 03:10:00 AM
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The ftp server built into the xos is horrible. If you really wanted to run an ftp server 24/7 on an xbox your better off running it under linux.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: andrewmc on March 28, 2005, 02:39:00 PM
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For upgrading to a bigger hard drive? (only lockable drives, no hacked bios needed!!)
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: mrjkwik on March 28, 2005, 05:24:00 PM
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perhaps the xos is flawed, but my point was simply that it "could be" used as ftp server. was using xenium as an example. was just demonstrating a "legal use" for a modchip. never said it had to be a good use.
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Title: 101 Legitimate Uses For Modchips
Post by: thebroken on March 28, 2005, 05:47:00 PM
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if ifs and buts where candy and nuts youd i dont remeber the rest of it but the XOS is bad but you technically could run a ftp server
thebroken
Post by: mrjkwik on March 28, 2005, 01:18:00 AM
Post by: acemilo on March 28, 2005, 03:10:00 AM
Post by: andrewmc on March 28, 2005, 02:39:00 PM
Post by: mrjkwik on March 28, 2005, 05:24:00 PM
Post by: thebroken on March 28, 2005, 05:47:00 PM
thebroken