Post by: Ultima111 on May 21, 2004, 11:46:00 AM
I had my doubts, I really did but it's gonna b here next week!!!Let's get the features straight!!!
| QUOTE |
Xbox goes RTOS in Xenium OS(info) 2.0 We've promised you it was coming. We promised you it would be groundbreaking. We told you it would be 'soon'.... and it's taken longer then even WE expected. We've promised you there was good reason. Now, it's time for us to lay it all on the line. It is coming... In fact, it is nearly here. Within 2 days, the first round of betas will make their way out of the innermost circle of OzXodus, and into the hands of our friends and supporters. It is groundbreaking... In fact, it could change the face of the scene forever. We've told you this before.... now let us take a moment to explain what we have done. Several months ago, the entire OzXodus team sat down together to discuss the future development of XOS. We decided we had 2 options. We could either stay with a Cromwell(info) based "os" or completely re-implement XOS, from the ground up, as an entirely new operating system. We weighed both options very carefully before making our decision. Cromwell was a great advancement in Xbox development. It's innovators and core supporters (Andy, Milosch, Ed, Oliver, DMP, etc..) brought the first legal firmware replacement, and it will have it's place in both Xbox and open-source history. However, Cromwell, as a basis for an operating system, is severely limited. It was never meant to be anything more then a firmware, and Linux loader. Designing and programming around that fact has proved a difficult and slow process. So, instead of continuing to work in a restricted and inappropriate environment, we instead opted to rewrite XOS, from the ground up, Cromwell free. As a true, independent, microkernel operating system, XOS2 provides a complete basis for potentially ANY utility, tool, application, or service to be written to run directly on XOS. It provides an extensive set of low level and mid level functionality to any higher level applications and services. It has a full driver subsystem, to support current and future hardware. (Thankfully, this made v1.6 support rather easy!) It has a full graphics API, including UI primitives, a feature rich text rendering engine, a loader for various image formats (jpeg, gif, png, bitmap, etc) and preliminary GPU hardware acceleration. There is a complete Berkeley sockets TCP/IP implementation, including support for BOOTP, RARP, ARP, ICMP, UDP, TCP, and DNS protocols, allowing extensive network applications and services to be created. We've implemented a complete embedded scripting engine based on Lua 5.0 from TecGraf. The list of CORE functionality goes on and on..... What does this mean for you, the end user? It means that, now, the potential of XOS is LIMITLESS. Here is a list of just some of the things we've been able to do under our new environment, already, which you will see in the beta: * Greatly improved user interface, combining crisp graphics with intuitive navigation, utilizing menus, popups, file selectors, alert/information/question dialogs, and task-specific dialogs such as an IP keypad and straightforward onscreen keyboard * Brand new video drivers, providing a much cleaner, clearer picture * Built-in FTP server, without relying on launching a second app or OS * Full client/server SMB (Windows Networking) support, integrated directly with the file system drivers, allowing you to copy files Xbox->pc and pc->Xbox, from either XOS or your PC * A preliminary telnet server (very much a work in progress, but something we hope will become a valuable tool in the future) * Full DHCP support, with static IP fallback * A new "Virtual Bank" system, eliminating the need for selecting bank modes, and greatly simplifying the flashing process * A straightforward HDD upgrade wizard * A detailed exception handler, which will generate an error report file to help us diagnose problems and fix bugs more rapidly * Full no-copy, asynchronous (read: FAST) USB device support, including support for USB keyboard and mouse (UI integration still in progress) * USB "Pen drive" support, allowing you to flash a bios and copy files from a USB memory stick or other mass storage device * Improved HDD support, covering a wider range of drives and setups, including LBA48 and multiple hard drives * UDMA support (disabled for beta) for maximum HDD performance * File system cache for efficient file operations * Raw I/O support for HDD operations (potential for utilities such as defrag, scandisk, etc) * Vastly improved flashing speeds. (Erase, Flash, and Verify 256k in 6 seconds, 1 meg in 25.5 seconds!) * Fully preemptive, multitasking kernel, supporting threading, semaphores, mailboxes, message passing, critical sections, etc.... with a task switch overhead of under 0.2 microseconds... allowing all services and applications to run concurrently and efficiently, without stability concerns * DLL support to load add-ins and additional future functionality from HDD or flash * Flash Unconstrained Core Kernel Initialization Technology, allowing you to load bioses directly from HDD, without flashing them to a bank And some things which will not be in the beta, but which are being developed currently, and will be in an XOS-dev (unstable/testing) release shortly after: * Full Web server for flashing and remote operation * UI Skinning/Scripting (This actually exists in the beta, and is how we do all our UI, but the API will not be exposed at first) * Screensavers A couple of things that are "on the drawing board." Initial testing and proof-of-concept implementations have been done: * Dash-In-Flash, allowing you to use XOS as your dashboard * Bios Cooking... live bios configuration and extension, done in a way completely unlike anything that's been done or demonstrated before! * Live update Finally, we will be developing a series of applications and utilities to run on xos2. One of the most amazing things about XOS2 is that it opens the door to a whole new world of development and distribution methods for legal applications and utilities. For our first application, we're considering a port of a popular emulator..... More on that to come. I'd like to apologize for the fact that "soon" has become such a long time. That time has passed very quickly for us, as we've been buried under this heap of code for awhile. For you, it must've seemed like an eternity. My only hope is that now you can perhaps see why this amazing feat has taken so long. Now, within the next few days, you'll be able to appreciate the results of all of the time and effort we've put into this, and why we believe it is the best work any of us have ever done. Stay tuned for some more exciting news, and an extensive video showing some of our favorite features in action, which should be ready in the coming hours. We will be contacting our initial beta testers individually, starting within the next 24-48 hours, increasing the number of beta testers as results come in, and going to a public beta, and then release, over next week. Please bear with us, as a beta test and release of something this massive is a stressful and time-consuming process. --Artifex, and the rest of the OzXodus team P.S. Just a friendly reminder that users with clone chips should use XOS2 only at their own risk. We will not support any "problems" with xos2 running on non-authentic Xeniums. |
I had my doubts.....but I was wrong, it is not vaporware...
What I would like to know, is why there is still no http flashing!!! I hate making those gay ass CD's, but it is all worth it now that we can ftp the bios files to the H.D., and load as many as we want with FUCKIT(flashing on the fly)!!!
I am glad we have ftp...but dlls and extensions!!! This is gonna b great!
What about the usb pen flashing!!! That is sooo cool!
Anyways, why must we wait yet another week...I thoughtt the whole point of delaying the release is so it was bug-fixed...and STILL NO WEBFLASHING!?!?!
Ok, well I am happy, and will continue to be happy, this is really groundbreaking...no more waiting 3 months for updates, now I can write my own dll's and other ppl will start writing apps for it...I can't wait!!!
The beta will be out next week...hopefully my Xenium doesn't go all haywire like last time I tried updating the o.s.
I bet I will be in the O.S. a LOT more now...
Although I wonder what they mean by the "Next few days"...
Remember the saying "Unlike others, we only begin releasing information DAYS before we release.."
Hopefully this is not the case!
I Was losing faith OzXodus..GREAT WORK!!
Mad props.
Post by: Bwsk8 on May 21, 2004, 12:02:00 PM
dumbxxEDIT: With all those fancy words they make me totally forget. Where is the LCD support!
Post by: Tommy Vercetti on May 21, 2004, 12:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (Ultima111 @ May 21 2004, 03:46 PM) |
| I had my doubts, I really did but it's gonna b here next week!!! Let's get the features straight!!! I had my doubts.....but I was wrong, it is not vaporware... What I would like to know, is why there is still no http flashing!!! I hate making those gay ass CD's, but it is all worth it now that we can ftp the bios files to the H.D., and load as many as we want with FUCKIT(flashing on the fly)!!! I am glad we have ftp...but dlls and extensions!!! This is gonna b great! What about the usb pen flashing!!! That is sooo cool! Anyways, why must we wait yet another week...I thoughtt the whole point of delaying the release is so it was bug-fixed...and STILL NO WEBFLASHING!?!?! Ok, well I am happy, and will continue to be happy, this is really groundbreaking...no more waiting 3 months for updates, now I can write my own dll's and other ppl will start writing apps for it...I can't wait!!! The beta will be out next week...hopefully my Xenium doesn't go all haywire like last time I tried updating the o.s. I bet I will be in the O.S. a LOT more now... Although I wonder what they mean by the "Next few days"... Remember the saying "Unlike others, we only begin releasing information DAYS before we release.." Hopefully this is not the case! I Was losing faith OzXodus..GREAT WORK!! Mad props. |
Uh,, settle down Beavis!
Yea its looking good, I havent had any issues with the V1.1 yet, (only been using it for a week though) so I may just stick with that until the bugs are worked outta this "NEW" OS.
And whats dll's and extensions mean?
Post by: Artifex on May 21, 2004, 12:07:00 PM
| QUOTE (Ultima111 @ May 21 2004, 08:46 PM) |
| What I would like to know, is why there is still no http flashing!!! I hate making those gay ass CD's, but it is all worth it now that we can ftp the bios files to the H.D., and load as many as we want with FUCKIT(flashing on the fly)!!! I am glad we have ftp...but dlls and extensions!!! This is gonna b great! |
Yah... ftp is cool and all...
Webserver is on it's way... we were too focused on the OS itself, and writing pages and cgi script interfaces and callbacks and etc etc etc for the webserver kind of got put on the back burner for awhile. It'll get done, and will be cool.
But... all that aside... maybe you missed what, we think, is the BEST feature currently in 2.0...
SMB!!! (A.k.a. "samba", "Windows Networking", "Windows Filesharing", etc)
Or, perhaps, I didn't clarify well enough...
With SMB support.... your xbox will show up in your network neighborhood, just like a PC....
You open it up, and there's all your drives.... copy a file? Just drag it...
Oh... and it's FAAASSSTTT!
On the reverse side... You can plop bioses in a shared folder on your pc... and browse the network from the xbox side... and flash the bios, right off of your pc, over the network, on the xbox!!
Screw FTP... Screw Webserver.... it cant get any more convenient then that! :-D
--Artifex
Post by: muerte on May 21, 2004, 12:09:00 PM
| QUOTE (Artifex @ May 21 2004, 03:07 PM) |
| Yah... ftp is cool and all... Webserver is on it's way... we were too focused on the OS itself, and writing pages and cgi script interfaces and callbacks and etc etc etc for the webserver kind of got put on the back burner for awhile. It'll get done, and will be cool. But... all that aside... maybe you missed what, we think, is the BEST feature currently in 2.0... SMB!!! (A.k.a. "samba", "Windows Networking", "Windows Filesharing", etc) Or, perhaps, I didn't clarify well enough... With SMB support.... your xbox will show up in your network neighborhood, just like a PC.... You open it up, and there's all your drives.... copy a file? Just drag it... Oh... and it's FAAASSSTTT! On the reverse side... You can plop bioses in a shared folder on your pc... and browse the network from the xbox side... and flash the bios, right off of your pc, over the network, on the xbox!! Screw FTP... Screw Webserver.... it cant get any more convenient then that! :-D --Artifex |
I <3 you Artifex!
Post by: csyberblue on May 21, 2004, 12:18:00 PM
I have a 160gb hard drive in it now, only appearing as 137gb. With the new operating system, it should detect all the space that I really have. What I want to know is, am I going to have to format my hard drive to get the extra space?
And when I do get the extra space, is EvoX and Xbox Media Center going to detect my G drive?
I'm pretty excited about this new operating system. It's great that they're still working hard on improving it.
Post by: Bwsk8 on May 21, 2004, 12:20:00 PM
| QUOTE (Artifex @ May 21 2004, 04:07 PM) |
| Oh... and it's FAAASSSTTT! |
How fast are we talking? Faster than ftp?
Post by: Ultima111 on May 21, 2004, 12:25:00 PM
| QUOTE (Artifex @ May 21 2004, 02:07 PM) |
| But... all that aside... maybe you missed what, we think, is the BEST feature currently in 2.0... SMB!!! (A.k.a. "samba", "Windows Networking", "Windows Filesharing", etc) Or, perhaps, I didn't clarify well enough... With SMB support.... your xbox will show up in your network neighborhood, just like a PC.... You open it up, and there's all your drives.... copy a file? Just drag it... Oh... and it's FAAASSSTTT! On the reverse side... You can plop bioses in a shared folder on your pc... and browse the network from the xbox side... and flash the bios, right off of your pc, over the network, on the xbox!! Screw FTP... Screw Webserver.... it cant get any more convenient then that! :-D --Artifex |
Lol..
I want to say thank you Artifex, and ALL of OZXodus for the great new features, and endless possibilities!
BTW Arti, I am Using Linux(Gentoo for my P.C.) can I still use Samba?
(I am very good with Samba under Windows...)
But, yeah I am really excited about O.S.v2
Lol, so did you guys use XDK to make all the features? I mean I know you didn't use Cromwell...so I guess it is sort of a stupid question...
Anyways, UBER more props to the TEAM!!!
Post by: Heet on May 21, 2004, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: rothbart on May 21, 2004, 12:39:00 PM
Sounds great guys!
And really, webflashing. Am I the only one around here that doesn't like to flash their BIOS all the time? I don't mind going through the regular hoops for the (hopefully very) occasional reflash. But file management via Samba... THAT is something I'm looking forward to.
And I'm betting if the API/DLL/Extensions are easy to use, we'll start seeing some cool unexpected utilities pop up. I'm curious about the emulator though... I guess just a proof of concept exercise?
All in all, very impressive. Sorry you guys caught so much flak for your <ahem> early announcement. Bet it doesn't happen again.
Post by: Ultima111 on May 21, 2004, 12:43:00 PM
Post by: Loto_Bak on May 21, 2004, 01:28:00 PM
Xenium OS 2.0... Some cool features there.
It will be nice to see the video of the new OS in action. See how good the fonts and video output etc are.
As far as applications being developed for Xenium OS... well i dont think its going to fly. As a developer you could reach 5-10% of the market (at most) by developing for xenium OS or develop with the XDK and reach 100% of your target market. If Xenium OS is to be successful then a 256k bios would need to be released (without the special features etc) and even then to get people running a specific bios would be hard. In this case I suppose any Xenium OS apps would have to run from their bios app, then if the user wishes to use 'standard' apps they could boot to another bank or perhaps load another bios with pbo
That being said the main benifit of Xenium OS would be legaly compiled binaries available for download (the biggest hurdle for the xbox scene)
The other feature is its modular design... It could have many advantages in the future...
They have been able to support USB Pen Drives in bios, hopefully they might be able to do the same with a USB harddrive (although slow at only 11MBits) and Video Capture perhaps?!? We'll see...
Oviously it is going to take quite a while before Xenium OS would be as mature as the MS win2k kernal based OS.
Lots of fancy new features on this release. some of them i would use, other not. But most that I would use are available in software.
[Rant]
Whats with all the 'edit your bios on your xbox' nowadays? When i get a new bios, I change my boot order/paths colors remove the animation and trademark and im done. Why would i need to change anything after im done?
[/Rant]
Lots of work I can see... Very strong platform for a modchip.
Xecuter was successful because the only platform was based on the MS bios. To make Xenium OS successful the install base would have to be very large.
Good luck
Post by: ravage73 on May 21, 2004, 01:32:00 PM
Post by: silentsnake on May 21, 2004, 01:39:00 PM
Post by: Billy-X on May 21, 2004, 02:12:00 PM
Post by: ghostavel on May 21, 2004, 02:19:00 PM
hope to see an lcd working with the new os.
Post by: mike96sc2 on May 21, 2004, 02:47:00 PM
My worry is XOS 2.0 becoming a jack of all trades and a master of none. Good luck to the team regardless
Post by: flux2k on May 21, 2004, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: alwaysonjohn on May 21, 2004, 02:53:00 PM
http://www.ozxodus.c...=article&sid=26
Post by: mike96sc2 on May 21, 2004, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: Master-Chief on May 21, 2004, 03:08:00 PM
I can't believe what I just saw on the front page of X-S!
Post by: QuimbyDogg on May 21, 2004, 03:19:00 PM
Post by: mcsenerd on May 21, 2004, 04:02:00 PM
| QUOTE (el_diablo @ May 22 2004, 12:36 AM) |
where is the lcd support? |
It's the same place their OS is...nowhere to be found for their customers...
Post by: JoePo on May 21, 2004, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 21, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
not to mention they're STILL making us wait and just getting us excited over something we can't have yet. they say they'll have it out (to beta testers) in 48 hour.... !!! what so how long do the beta testers have it before we do? what if they find some huge bug that takes them another 2 weeks to fix, if they haven't even sent it out to the testers yet and it's new from the ground up I'd expect them to have quite a bit of bugs as most "ground up" software does.
to be honest the first thing that popped into my mind was "gee the SmartXX people just won the 1.6 race and posted a brief message and a newly available OS" then no less than 2 news posts later the Xenium people post news that's probably larger in bytes than the XOS2
and still nothing tangableI didn't see the smart XX guys posting useless "excitment posts" with nothing tangable excpt when the 1.6 first came out and they were posting usefull 1.6 info for the scene at lage.
I'll tell ya, I have to grit my teeth and TRY to like the way Xenium does things... I hate it when they post news with nothing tangable... hell anyone can talk up a storm... fucking show me something
Post by: Loto_Bak on May 21, 2004, 05:22:00 PM
)(assuming no emulation which will NOT happen on xbox)
Sure MacOS can run multiple programs at once.. but say you wanted to play a mp3 and a game... the mp3 player works fine on the Mac... but how do you start a dos program in a Mac enviroment? you cant. there two totally different operating systems.
This is how you should relate Xenium OS to Anything based off of the MS bios (Xecuter, Evo m7, debug bios, ms retail)
The only way to have your mp3 player would be to hack the MS bios and put it in there... but i dont believe that the underlying support is there to accomplish this (multitasking in my bios non existant? not sure... perhaps someone thats delt with bios internals can shed some light)
Post by: enzo on May 21, 2004, 05:24:00 PM
im totally new to this OS from Xenium (great job btw guys on the os 2.0 !!)
I dont have a modchip in my xbox, i flashed the tsop with xecuter 2 bios.
Would it be possible to flash it with the OS 2.0 instead of the xecuter 2 i have now ?
Post by: nfs924 on May 21, 2004, 05:29:00 PM
Post by: mcsenerd on May 21, 2004, 06:52:00 PM
) they're going to just look even worse than they are already looking.Look...I don't care what you make or what you do...when your customers are some of your loudest complainers...you've got a serious problem on your hands. I swear...honestly...I wouldn't recommend a Xenium to anyone now. I don't give a flying flip what nobody has to say...they're making a hacked up 3rd gen chip with only promises and inuendos of true 4th gen performance. It's high time to put up or shut up...and frankly I'm getting to the point where I'd be happy with either right now after all of these senseless hype posts of theirs with their promises of "soon very soon" or "within days we'll begin testing" (in other words...you won't see jack for two more months).
Post by: Corspegrinder99 on May 21, 2004, 06:58:00 PM
Post by: greengiant on May 21, 2004, 07:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (alwaysonjohn @ May 21 2004, 11:53 PM) |
| hmm.. I am also not enthusiastic. I didn't see the only feature i cared about. TSOP Flashing without any jumpers... now that is a revolution. http://www.ozxodus.c...=article&sid=26 |
This will never be possible !!!
Reason: the TSOP chip is made with write protection, MS has made it such that the write protection is turned on. Write protection is a physical matter.
So you will never be able to have a solution to flash the onboard bios chip (tsop) withought doing at least 1 jumper.
Post by: FoxRacR17 on May 21, 2004, 07:12:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Raw I/O support for HDD operations (potential for utilities such as defrag, scandisk, etc) |
Am i the only one that is excited about this feature? I mean i dont own a Xenium, BUT if it is possible to defrag the xbox hdd with OS 2.0, then i will buy a Xenium in a heartbeat! I mean no more having to reformat your hdd and replace everything when it starts to lag due to fragmentation. How would defrag be possible with OS 2.0?
-
Title: 2.0 Out Next Week!
Post by: greengiant on May 21, 2004, 07:16:00 PM
-
Post by: greengiant on May 21, 2004, 07:16:00 PM
| QUOTE (mcsenerd @ May 22 2004, 03:52 AM) |
| Here here twistedsymphony...Right on brotha! I think you nailed the hype machine on the head with Xenium vs. SmartXX I tell ya...they had better do something substantial...and I mean soon (No not Xenium team soon...real people soon ) they're going to just look even worse than they are already looking.Look...I don't care what you make or what you do...when your customers are some of your loudest complainers...you've got a serious problem on your hands. I swear...honestly...I wouldn't recommend a Xenium to anyone now. I don't give a flying flip what nobody has to say...they're making a hacked up 3rd gen chip with only promises and inuendos of true 4th gen performance. It's high time to put up or shut up...and frankly I'm getting to the point where I'd be happy with either right now after all of these senseless hype posts of theirs with their promises of "soon very soon" or "within days we'll begin testing" (in other words...you won't see jack for two more months). |
Well said !
Every time we see news from Xen, its 2 pages long and full of bull. Flashy words and wasting space to make it seem like WOW. But if you boil it down its only a few lines of stuff. Go look at the competitor, smartxx, you see them coming out with new 1.6 bios updates, 1.6 install info, alot of USEFULL stuff, but you dont see them taking 2 pages to mention it. And specially 2 pages to say "its coming".. "soon".."next week"... etc
To support the others,
Where are the SPI stuff that was boasted so much when the chip was announced ?
Where is the LCD support?
Where is the HTTP flashing ?
SMB, great, woopie. now when iam transfering files I can have it fail half way thru and have to re-start instead of FTP where it continues on the next file.
Post by: mike96sc2 on May 21, 2004, 07:28:00 PM
| QUOTE (mbmonk @ May 21 2004, 10:00 PM) |
| You dont know what type of "kiddie" I am, quit foaming at the mouth and calm down. |
You want to "download a 'backup'" well chief, assuming youre not a pirate kiddie you'd just copy them over instead of downloading. so you are one of those kiddies
Post by: Shaid on May 21, 2004, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: CrayZEE on May 21, 2004, 07:41:00 PM
Anyways, it's great work, i can't wait to play with it, well done OZXodus!
Post by: greengiant on May 21, 2004, 07:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (CrayZEE @ May 22 2004, 04:41 AM) |
| Just thinking about the possibilities of plugins, and the SPI I/O's, we would have the possibility to add switches to it and way more cool stuff. |
That has been said time and time again.
From before the release of the chip itself, to the feature list, to the release, to the 1.1 release.
Again and again..
But to this day the public has not seen the LCD running on the Xen, nor any actuall use of the SPI port. And in this recent 2 page news, no mention of lcd or spi.
So you think about it....
Post by: dailey on May 21, 2004, 09:49:00 PM
| QUOTE (greengiant @ May 22 2004, 04:16 AM) |
| Well said ! Every time we see news from Xen, its 2 pages long and full of bull. Flashy words and wasting space to make it seem like WOW. But if you boil it down its only a few lines of stuff. Go look at the competitor, smartxx, you see them coming out with new 1.6 bios updates, 1.6 install info, alot of USEFULL stuff, but you dont see them taking 2 pages to mention it. And specially 2 pages to say "its coming".. "soon".."next week"... etc To support the others, Where are the SPI stuff that was boasted so much when the chip was announced ? Where is the LCD support? Where is the HTTP flashing ? SMB, great, woopie. now when iam transfering files I can have it fail half way thru and have to re-start instead of FTP where it continues on the next file. |
Geez quit yer bitchin about the long news post, did it ever occur to you that they didnt post it with the intent on taking up a lot of front page real estate? I mean what have they done, moved celebrity xboxes and the bi-daily news of the latest XBMC bugfixes to the bottom of the page? It's not like you see Artifex posting it on X-S, nope XanTium is the one who posted it. Let's get something straight, they post their news on their website, if it's copied and pasted here then dont bitch at them for making it so long k?
If you guys want to praise a team (smartXX) for being the "first" to release a an update thats compatible with the 1.6 thats great, but it's reinventing the wheel. OzXodus is not about re-invention but innovation, they are about making an operating system that has and will continue to change the worlds view of a modchip. What they have done has changed the modern modchip from a simple alternative boot device to a user friendly interactive OS for a game system. I mean I dont know if some of you out there fully grasp the concept of what it takes to program an operating system, especially one for a system like the Xbox but if you want to complain how it has taken them (gasp) 5 months in between version releases then gripe away.
Me, instead of looking at what isnt there I am gonna look at what is there and focus on the possibilites. Anyhow, thats my two cents
Post by: douceur on May 21, 2004, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: chimpanzee on May 21, 2004, 11:13:00 PM
From the announcement, it seems that this OS is not a hack but a clean one like cromwell ? If that is true, how can it run Xbox games(or can it) ?
Post by: marksu on May 21, 2004, 11:30:00 PM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 22 2004, 08:13 AM) |
| This may be a FAQ but I cannot find it. From the announcement, it seems that this OS is not a hack but a clean one like cromwell ? If that is true, how can it run Xbox games(or can it) ? |
NOOOOO it cant.
It is not a bios.
It is a OS, making possible to flash xenium with a cracked bios.
Post by: swolsten on May 21, 2004, 11:36:00 PM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 22 2004, 07:13 AM) |
| This may be a FAQ but I cannot find it. From the announcement, it seems that this OS is not a hack but a clean one like cromwell ? If that is true, how can it run Xbox games(or can it) ? |
The OS is used to select bios's, the bios you select then runs xbox apps or games.
Post by: marksu on May 21, 2004, 11:59:00 PM
Post by: marksu on May 22, 2004, 12:14:00 AM
To run the OS 2.0 on a non Xenium mod is not possible!
However to run with the OS 2.0 and non Xenium mod is possible though!
1. Burn the OS 2.0 file to CD (any cd will do even cd-r)
2. Open Xbox cover
2. Pick up non Xenium mod from the xbox in your hand
3. Pick up the CD in your hand
4. RUN RUN RUN !!!
************ THE SECRATE IS OUT!! ****************
Post by: chimpanzee on May 22, 2004, 12:41:00 AM
| QUOTE (swolsten @ May 22 2004, 08:36 AM) |
| The OS is used to select bios's, the bios you select then runs xbox apps or games. |
So it is more like PBL but can be flashed ?
If that is the case, can I use it to load a retail BIOS(MS) and run Xbox games ?
What I am looking at is the possibility of a Xbox with no hacked BIOS but at the same time can run both Xbox game and linux.
Currently, this is possible if I go the softmod route but it may not be possible for some new Xbox anymore. Beside, there is some gotchas like the clock loop issue etc.
Post by: marksu on May 22, 2004, 12:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 22 2004, 09:41 AM) |
| So it is more like PBL but can be flashed ? If that is the case, can I use it to load a retail BIOS(MS) and run Xbox games ? What I am looking at is the possibility of a Xbox with no hacked BIOS but at the same time can run both Xbox game and linux. Currently, this is possible if I go the softmod route but it may not be possible for some new Xbox anymore. Beside, there is some gotchas like the clock loop issue etc. |
I give up!
Post by: Master-Chief on May 22, 2004, 02:28:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Yah... ftp is cool and all... Webserver is on it's way... we were too focused on the OS itself, and writing pages and cgi script interfaces and callbacks and etc etc etc for the webserver kind of got put on the back burner for awhile. It'll get done, and will be cool. But... all that aside... maybe you missed what, we think, is the BEST feature currently in 2.0... SMB!!! (A.k.a. "samba", "Windows Networking", "Windows Filesharing", etc) Or, perhaps, I didn't clarify well enough... With SMB support.... your xbox will show up in your network neighborhood, just like a PC.... You open it up, and there's all your drives.... copy a file? Just drag it... Oh... and it's FAAASSSTTT! On the reverse side... You can plop bioses in a shared folder on your pc... and browse the network from the xbox side... and flash the bios, right off of your pc, over the network, on the xbox!! Screw FTP... Screw Webserver.... it cant get any more convenient then that! :-D --Artifex |
Post by: marksu on May 22, 2004, 02:53:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ May 22 2004, 09:14 AM) |
| ************ THE SECRATE IS OUT!! **************** There is one way attaching the OS 2.0 to any other non Xenium mod. 1. Burn the OS file to CD (any cd will do even cd-r) 2. Open Xbox cover 3. Attach the cd on the mod with Binding Tape!! To run the OS 2.0 on a non Xenium mod is not possible! However to run with the OS 2.0 and non Xenium mod is possible though! 1. Burn the OS 2.0 file to CD (any cd will do even cd-r) 2. Open Xbox cover 2. Pick up non Xenium mod from the xbox in your hand 3. Pick up the CD in your hand 4. RUN RUN RUN !!! ************ THE SECRATE IS OUT!! **************** |
I just gave away all my secrates and the noobs don't even bother to read it.
That is pretty mutch all you can do with the OS 2.0 if you do own only a NON Xeinium mod!
Post by: marksu on May 22, 2004, 03:22:00 AM
No, realy I like the feature. That is wery waited feature to the Xbox-scene.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 22, 2004, 05:43:00 AM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 22 2004, 02:11 PM) |
| Incorrect, if an application uses GPL code it only has to release the sourcecode to the GPL code that has been included and/or modified to work with the application (ie. the modified code) In this scenario, if OzX included the GPL source for samba then all they would need to release sources for was the Samba code. |
that depends on how they implement it. If it is relatively isolated, they only need to released the modified Samba source. If however it is well integrated in the mainline(could be because of size limitation or whatever), they are required to released the source code of the whole thing.
Post by: heinrich on May 22, 2004, 06:00:00 AM
| QUOTE (CrayZEE @ May 22 2004, 01:34 AM) |
| Hmmm, i might be not one of the masses, but i still don't see a necessity for an LCD. Sure its a nice Modification, but its useless crap imo. It does only look nice and doesnt really add functionality. What could an LCD tell me that i need to know that my TV can't do? I don't get it |
Yes, it is rather useless for most people, but, ozxodus made a big fuss about it, and showed a video of it working in XBMC.. this was done right after the news item of support for the smartxx's LCD, which was actually available, and installed in many peoples xbox's. But that was months ago, and I have not seen 1 user with xenium + lcd.
moral of the story, less talking, more doing
But, yes, I'm sure that it will grand all in good time...
Post by: Master-Chief on May 22, 2004, 07:40:00 AM
| QUOTE (akarnid @ May 22 2004, 11:31 AM) |
| I'll tell you wots the point with the LCD. I keep my Xbox hooked up to my living room equipment (Logitech Z-680 5.1, Sony VPL-CX5 XGA Projector). I also keep a 29" TV in there as well. But my main use is on the projector, and the bulbs for that cost big money. So whenever I like to use XBMC to stream music from my home comp, I like to keep the proj. off and the TV too. It's only for the music, and the LCD allows me to control XBMC directly without the need of turning my TV/projector on. It's the best thing since I got my Xbox way back in 2001. Essential to me. |
Just use your TV, that's what it's for in the first place...
Post by: Bwsk8 on May 22, 2004, 07:45:00 AM
| QUOTE (akarnid @ May 22 2004, 11:31 AM) |
| I'll tell you wots the point with the LCD. I keep my Xbox hooked up to my living room equipment (Logitech Z-680 5.1, Sony VPL-CX5 XGA Projector). I also keep a 29" TV in there as well. But my main use is on the projector, and the bulbs for that cost big money. So whenever I like to use XBMC to stream music from my home comp, I like to keep the proj. off and the TV too. It's only for the music, and the LCD allows me to control XBMC directly without the need of turning my TV/projector on. It's the best thing since I got my Xbox way back in 2001. Essential to me. |
What I did is buy a tv tuner for my gameboy advance and I hook my xbox up to that whenever I can't or don't want to use a tv.
Post by: dethbunny on May 22, 2004, 10:18:00 AM
Then there are the similar products like VMWare.
The closest I can think of to what we want to do, though, is the "two kernel monte" mod for a TiVo. It's a method for running a hacked Linux kernel on the TiVo, with the official TiVo kernel over it. Because the official kernel is in place, everything works as normal, but the hacked kernel underneath allows you to access and read the stored video streams on the TiVo - something not normally allowed.
In all of these examples, the MacOS, Windows, or the TiVo Linux have no idea that the envirenmen they're running in isn't the real hardware.
It can be done. But it's a hard trick to pull off.
Oh, and this wouldn't require a chip like the Xenium. You could do it with a special "bios" for any chip, or even TSOP. It just hasn't been done yet. With a suitably advanced infrastructure like that in place, though, you could make a modded box XBL compatible. Instead of reporting actual hardware details, the low-level hacked OS could return any values. It could remove the need to set media flags, or mount xISOs as if they were real discs as far as other software was concerned. The possibilities are limitless - but it's far more difficult than most of the significant mods so far, like tricking the Xbox into booting from the built-in LPC.
I'll honestly be quite surprised if anyone pulls thatone off any time soon.
Post by: dethbunny on May 22, 2004, 10:28:00 AM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 22 2004, 02:41 AM) |
| If that is the case, can I use it to load a retail BIOS(MS) and run Xbox games ? What I am looking at is the possibility of a Xbox with no hacked BIOS but at the same time can run both Xbox game and linux. |
Since nobody else took the time to answer...
Yes, this is very possible, and very easy. In fact, I believe the Xenium comes pre-flased with Cromwell.
When the Xbox boots up, you can select to boot from any BIOS on the Xenium (there's 1 MB of space) or from teh ob-board (non-modified) BIOS. The easy way to do what you want would be to flash a Cromwell/Xromwell/etc BIOS to the Xenuim, then choose which BIOS you want to run each time the 'box boots. Choose the on-board BIOS to play games (with full Xbox Live compatibility), and choose the Linux BIOS when you want to play that "linux" game everyone keeps talking about
Post by: Loto_Bak on May 22, 2004, 12:22:00 PM
| QUOTE (dethbunny @ May 22 2004, 07:18 PM) |
| On the subject of running the X-OS and a game concurrently...it's possible. There is a proud history in the computer world of just such things. The first one that I remember doing an incredible job was SheepShaver under BeOS. It allowed you to run an unmodified MacOS installation over top of BeOS, and it worked great. Then there are the similar products like VMWare. The closest I can think of to what we want to do, though, is the "two kernel monte" mod for a TiVo. It's a method for running a hacked Linux kernel on the TiVo, with the official TiVo kernel over it. Because the official kernel is in place, everything works as normal, but the hacked kernel underneath allows you to access and read the stored video streams on the TiVo - something not normally allowed. In all of these examples, the MacOS, Windows, or the TiVo Linux have no idea that the envirenmen they're running in isn't the real hardware. |
So your exspecting Xenium to be able to write a bios that will have the entire 3d API implimented? oookay...
Your exspecting that a Xbox will be able to run a emulation layer to translate MS calls to Xenium (undeveloped) calls?
The xbox is pushed to its limits as is... In 'the computer world' as you say the hardware emulating these other software is either a mute point because its software such as word processors... the hardware emulating the other software is much more powerful... or the emulated software takes a BIG performance hit.
Your tivo 'two hernal monte' sounds like either a hacked bios simular to Xecuter releases or anything else based on the MS bios... or perhaps its a PBL type setup? I am unfamiliar with TiVos and am unsure...
Bottom line is without Xenium re-writing the MS bios with their own calls (which, unless Xenium has a huge staff and 3D api programmers available) isnt going to happen ever.
This Xenium bios will not ever play a Xbox Game nativly
As far as the LCD support... damn rights if i bought one of thoes i would be pissed off. They cost around 50 or 60 usd right? They showed off lcd support... listed it under the features... yet even today... many months after its been released.. .and still no WORD on support... more like... well we screwed up and just arnt going to say anything about it....
This was a very large project for them and would have taken alot of work... but as far as pleasing customers... Perhaps they should have prepared to actually meet the featurelist for their original product before they took on a long project and are still back at square one.
Post by: mcsenerd on May 22, 2004, 02:02:00 PM
| QUOTE (Shaid @ May 22 2004, 04:40 AM) |
| I've been running 1.1 bios pretty much since it came out with absolutely no problems and version 2.0 does sound great. Look at what they have done before starting up all of the rants. The anouncement was just made and already there are multiple rants going on. They built something from the ground up with a lot of new "promising" features in a short amount of time. |
Look...I think you're missing the point entirely. You don't go around supporting yourself as some sort of holy 4th gen chip when it's perfectly clear that their OS is pushing being qualified as a 3rd gen. It's not about this crap like..."well 1.1 works for me". That's great...a cheapmod prolly would've worked for you too. The point of the matter is that they promised things that they haven't delivered (Or does the promise of more empty promises qualify as a promise kept?). Where's the functionality of this SPI port? Where's the LCD support? Where's the true 4th gen features like FTP, HTTP flashing, Prog Scan OS support, etc? Well...I'll tell you where they are...in none of their customers hands. So go ahead peeps...flame on if you think you can prove that the Xenium deserves to be called a 4th gen chip as it is marketed as. I'm all ears if anyone's got any proof other than a bunch of blowhard press releases trying to steal the thunder of other products that have actually produced something for their customers to use.
Post by: Syxx6 on May 22, 2004, 02:08:00 PM
should i have just waited on this one, or an i ok...
Thanks
Post by: mcsenerd on May 22, 2004, 02:13:00 PM
| QUOTE (Syxx6 @ May 22 2004, 11:08 PM) |
| ok so i'm almost a total NEWB here... i'm just wondering if its bad that i just purchased my first chip which was the Xenium, the other day...? should i have just waited on this one, or an i ok... Thanks |
Look...IF They come out with this new OS...then you will be able to use it on your Xenium assuming it's not a clone. Don't sit around waiting on it...you could be here a while if you do...
Post by: Bwsk8 on May 22, 2004, 02:39:00 PM
Xecuter3 news and updated featurelist
>> From teamxecuter.com:
| QUOTE |
We are happy to present a revised feature list of X3 - the most feature packed BIOS and mod hardware ever designed for the Xbox. As you can see we have now added full I/O support for LCD as well as expanding the i2c bus to support LCD modules that require only 4 wires - we will also do some kind of bundle deal where the LCD would cost only an extra $10 to $20. The mod is designed to give you a hassle free install (we provide everything you require - no need to solder extra wires for extra functions such as LCD support or any switches you may want to use) Not only is X3 powerful - its also a lot of fun to use. Those who like toying with their bios will love X3 Config Live. The first round of beta versions were shipped today to our core developers. Once we have finalized any changes X3 will ship to our public beta list which we have carefully selected over the last couple of weeks. There is so much more we are going to add to the bios in future - as we have always done for you in the past, not to mention the expansive windows based software that is also being developed to make your mod experience even better. Currently we are finishing the addition of v1.6 support to our BIOS which would of course be of some use to those who want to play games / run unsigned code. We have worked so hard on the quality of X3 in the last few months - we sincerely hope that you enjoy our efforts. * 2MB Flash Rom With 15 Bios Storage Options * Dedicated 256K Backup Rom with a new Linux based bios (Can be upgraded to any bios you wish) * i2c Bus for X3 Config LIVE! * New Enhanced SPI / i2c Interface for Full LCD support * New Enhanced I/O Bus for Full LCD support (and other future hardware addons) * All LCD modules to be custom made with adapters so no soldering required (also currently testing with a new 320x200 Matrix LCD) * Flash Protection Control * Mod Disable - Quick Press of Power or Eject (External LED will indicate RED LED) * Hold Power+Eject >1 second to boot from 256k Backup Rom (External LED will indicate YELLOW LED) * Hold Power >1 second to boot from 2Mb Flash Rom (External LED will indicate GREEN LED) * HDD Activity LED * LAN Activity LED * LPC/D0 Alignment LED * D0/A15 Control * Wire Install Option + Included Wire adapter * Pin Header Install Option * No-Solder Pogo Pin Install Option will be available * New LPT based external programming interface (CPLD controlled) * Compatible with all current bios's * Supplied with all adapters & wires Bank Modes: 256k/256k/256k/256k/256k/256k/256k/256k/ 512k/512k/512k/512k/ 1024k/1024k 2048k X3 Config LIVE! All X3 Config Live! features are displayed on screen * All works direct from new X3 on any new install. * Select which bios bank to boot from on-the-fly * Switch to either retail bios mode or FULL debug bios mode * Display / Edit bios names from each bank * Full DHCP & Static IP Support * Built-in FTP Server with Boost Mode * Built-in Webserver * Flash BIOS via HTTP * Flash BIOS via FTP * New FTP Based Bios Storage System * Control all BIOS / Mod functions and settings from HTTP * Enhanced BIOS flash speed (256k - 2 Seconds, 1MB 10 Seconds) * Built-in Onscreen Keyboard * Customize all features of the bios on-the-fly * LBA48 Live Control (Select Partition 6 or 6+7 or stock hard drive) * IGR Live Control (Enable or Disable) * Quick Launch Feature (select different features to be executed with gamepad combos) * Customize startup animation colors on-the-fly (With Active Color Picker System) * Customize startup flubber colors on-the-fly (With Active Color Picker System) * Change Camera Angles of the startup animation (select between 15 options or choose random) * User selectable startup logo * Skinnable interface * Password your XBOX for extra security * Change your power LED color on the fly * Set your Internal Fan Speed on-the-fly * Enable or Disable Reset on eject hack * Enable or Disable the Xbox Live Connect Hack * Boot to original MS Dash * Boot to original MS Bios * Load Bios from HDD C, D, E, F and Flash * Load Bios from DVD-ROM and Flash * Format & Partition HDD * Lock / Unlock HDD * Set / Display Video Mode * Progressive Scan Control (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) * Set widescreen / letterbox * New Audio Options (User selectable background music) * Set / Display Game Region * Set / Display DVD Region * Display HDD Password * Display All Xbox Live Configuration * Display All Network Configuration * Display all Eeprom public and encrypted data * Save XBOX EEPROM to X3 * Restore XBOX EEPROM from X3 * Auto Save EEPROM to X3 on first install * Save Settings to EEPROM * Set default dashboard * Setup custom dashboard selection (5 Options) * Set drive to boot dash from (C E or F) * Auto Fix of corrupt date / time * X3 Software Intergration to other dashboards * Brand new X3 Bios Manager for the PC - MANY new features including full BIOS configuration via built in webserver |
Post by: greengiant on May 22, 2004, 04:00:00 PM
The xbox is not meant to be multitasking, as loto_bak somewhat explained you mis-read the features list. Yes the XOS may be a new OS and have internal calls and such, but that is so you can do stuff with it while the XOS is operating not after the MS bios has loaded.
The only multitasking right now on the xbox is using a developer bios and the debugging tools. You can acess the hdd, and other features of the xbox thanks to the debug+xbdm.dll while any app/game is running.
Post by: ncaissie on May 22, 2004, 06:33:00 PM
This means we don't have to search for apps compiled with the XDK!!!
Dam That is sweet. I have only owned an Xbox a few months, and I have a lot to learn.
I will not look for an illegal XDK to build apps. To much hassle.
Now I can go nuts building apps!
your XBMC DVDToXbox and other apps will no longer bee needed.
I believe this means we do not need to load an illegal BIOS to run our apps on our Xboxes!
Am I the only one who sees this?
This does mean that our wait will be a little longer for the features we asked for.
Hell, the two I asked for are not in there yet (Skinable and FTP).
That is what I see from all this.
I hope I'm right.
Post by: dailey on May 22, 2004, 09:02:00 PM
| QUOTE (mcsenerd @ May 22 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| Oh...I've got a full grasp of it. Let's see what's wrong with this picture... One...you speak of this OS as though it's actually been released and their loyal customers are reaping it rewards right this second...Ummmm...WRONG! |
Did I say anything like that !? no. I dunno where you think I was implying that, but you go on changing words around to make yourself feel right k lil buddy?
| QUOTE (mcsenerd @ May 22 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| Two...5 months...(Gasp?) How long do you think the shelf life of the Xbox will really be? What...I figure it's got max of two more years as a stong platform...after that...all the new consoles will be coming out and everyone will be forgetting about all of this. I imagine that's when we'll see this revolutionary OS rebuild actually mature to the point where it matters...and by then...it's not going to matter. You've got to think about the life of electronics in like 7ths of dog years...5 months my friend...is an extremely long time. |
Well shit, I didnt know I was dealing with a market specialist here, I guess he must be right. OzXodus, You need to get on the ball and start cracking out those updates, maybe one every dog year? Oh oh wait, what about canine leap years? I mean shit since we are comparing the accurate comparisons of electronic timelines compared to fractional dog years in an ever fluctuating home entertainment market, I think thats a really important question that must be answered.
| QUOTE (mcsenerd @ May 22 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| Three...Innovation? Please name me one thing that they have done that has not been done before? (No I'm not talking about the legends in their own mind stuff...I'm talking about things that everyone can get their hands on) No...my friend I'm afraid you're wrong again...I believe Ozxodus is about propoganda nothing more nothing less. |
k, five words, put up or shut up.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 01:58:00 AM
| QUOTE (akarnid @ May 22 2004, 05:43 PM) |
| Why should I, when I only want to listen to music, like when i'm reading? It's nice that you don't see any use for the LCD, but I do. Haven't you ever turned off your computer's screen when you are using it just for winamp? Same thing. Now that is actually a nifty solution. Does is come out all right on that screen? |
Or just a small(4-6") LVD tv/monitor which is pretty cheap.
I just don't see the pros of a special LCD device that requires special programming to use. A small general purpose LCD monitor/tv that can take standard RCA plugs is better suited for your usage, IMO.
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 03:16:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 03:33 AM) |
| OzXodus didn't give us features, they gave us a legal foundation to built our apps with those features. Also I can now build a XBox backup app to backup games and DVDs without hiding it from M$. This means we don't have to search for apps compiled with the XDK!!! Dam That is sweet. I have only owned an Xbox a few months, and I have a lot to learn. I will not look for an illegal XDK to build apps. To much hassle. Now I can go nuts building apps! your XBMC DVDToXbox and other apps will no longer bee needed. I believe this means we do not need to load an illegal BIOS to run our apps on our Xboxes! Am I the only one who sees this? This does mean that our wait will be a little longer for the features we asked for. Hell, the two I asked for are not in there yet (Skinable and FTP). That is what I see from all this. I hope I'm right. |
You must understand as was noted before by someone else.
Developers will see it this way,
Do I want to make a program that will reach mayby 5-10% of the market, or one that will reach 100% of the market ?
Secondly, this has always been possible with linux/cromwell.
What do you think raincoat is ? its one of the most common apps available for the xbox that is LEGAL and is free and can be run from a cd or such and there is no legality problems associated with it.
So If your a developer and are so ancios to make programs that are LEGAL, learn to develop for linux and use cromwell as a boot system.
Post by: marksu on May 23, 2004, 03:44:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| So If your a developer and are so ancios to make programs that are LEGAL, learn to develop for linux and use cromwell as a boot system. |
Does that mean that all those apps will only work through booting ?
Post by: heinrich on May 23, 2004, 04:49:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 08:38 AM) |
| Dood what do you think is going to happen with the X3 Bios? It's not going to work on any chip but the X3. (What % would this be?) It's a dog eat dog world. |
What ?
The x3 bios will still run all the same homebrew and retail code that we have been using for years now, the XOS will never achieve that.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 04:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ May 23 2004, 12:44 PM) |
| Does that mean that all those apps will only work through booting ? |
In the context of Xenium, every applications need to do that, no ? As it's main feature is allows one to select the BIOS to load.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 05:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (akarnid @ May 23 2004, 01:48 PM) |
| Show me where I can buy a 4" LCD TV for less than 100$. You can't, right? I'm very happy with my scrolling LCD screen, it shows me the ID3 tag info, and that is exactly what I bought it for. Extra programming? I just soldered it on, activated it thru the smartxx OS, and XBMC was already setup to output data to it. No programming required on my part. And I think this is a massive pissing contest between OzXodus & Team Xecuter. Mind you not the first one. Xecuter wouldn't have grabbed half the mod market if it weren't because of their boasting. I'm old enough in this scene to remember the first Xecuter announcements. This has been about 'my mod is bigger than your mod' ever since the market went from 29 wire homebrews to easily installed LPC/d0 chips. That's just the way marketing is. |
I am not sure about your place, but that is by all means possible in where I live(Hong Kong). They are made in China, the quality is no good but for the purpose intended, they are enough.
By extra programming, I mean you need the program to aware of it and use it which is quite different than say running apps like EVOX that only knows about the TV output.
BTW, I am not pissing anything, just don't see the advantage of such thing. I don't even know how to install a mod so even further from whoever's mod is better than others.
Be it Xenium or Xecuter or whatever, their feature list sounds cool and may be fun to work on but how useful they would really be(or shall I say that can't be done with alternative solution) is very much up to debate.
Take the new Xenium OS 2.0 as an example, SMB server sounds nice but why not just load a copy of linux with samba ? One can do may be another 1000 things at the same time, except playing Xbox games but Xenium can't either.
Post by: marksu on May 23, 2004, 05:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 23 2004, 01:51 PM) |
| In the context of Xenium, every applications need to do that, no ? As it's main feature is allows one to select the BIOS to load. |
Well I was thinking about the DLL support feature.
I would sound strange if each DLL app would need to be started by booting.
The Idea of DLL technology is that it is integrated to the OS 2.0 just as it would be originally programed to it. Meaning giving new features to the OS by third party programmers. These features would then be used anytime while OS is running without rebooting.
This the the GREAT achievement with DLL support on OS 2.0.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 05:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 01:49 PM) |
| What ? The x3 bios will still run all the same homebrew and retail code that we have been using for years now, the XOS will never achieve that. |
So X3 is still a hacked BIOS, right ? That is quite some achivement by itself.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 05:09:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ May 23 2004, 02:04 PM) |
| Well I was thinking about the DLL support feature. I would sound strange if each DLL app would need to be started by booting. The Idea of DLL technology is that it is integrated to the OS 2.0 just as it would be originally installed to it. Meaning giving new features to the OS by third party programmers. These features would then be used anytime while OS is running without rebooting. This the the GREAT achievement with DLL support on OS 2.0. |
Sure, but that only limits to Xenium OS aware application. What would be the advantage of it over booting into linux which can run almost ALL existing linux applications at the same time without booting ?
As a developer, why would I develop for Xenium OS rather than linux other than 'fun or I just can' ? Are there as much tools as that for linux ? It takes MS a lot of effort to build up the Xbox developer community and that is largely $ related.
Post by: marksu on May 23, 2004, 05:27:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Sure, but that only limits to Xenium OS aware application. What would be the advantage of it over booting into linux which can run almost ALL existing linux applications at the same time without booting ? |
Well I think it does.
Just cause no need to boot to separate linux.
Well that is just me
Post by: heinrich on May 23, 2004, 05:47:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 10:36 AM) |
| The X3 Bios is only for the X3 chip. That my friend is NOT 100% of the market. |
but the apps that will work with the x3 will work with every x2/evox/whoever else bios. You are in a VERY small minority if you dont want the "hassle" of looking for xbox binaries, and you will never see near the library of legal apps compared to illegal apps until(if) openxdk makes some progress, and apps built with that will STILL not run with just the XOS, a hacked MS bios will always be needed.
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 05:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 12:38 PM) |
| Dood what do you think is going to happen with the X3 Bios? It's not going to work on any chip but the X3. (What % would this be?) It's a dog eat dog world. Secondly Linux? what % of devs are Linux? Your contradicting yourself. No offence to Linux and its devs but I bet there are a lot more windows devs. I am an MS dev and always will be. |
WHAT THE fuck does the x3 have to do with this ???
The X3 BIOS will run anything a normal bios will run, any XBE.
With the X3 chip/bios you as a dev DONOT have to make ur app specifically for the X3, you make it for the XBOX !
As to your Linux post, for sure.
But then, there is a bigger base of Linux on xbox, than there is of XOS2 on xbox.
Because anyone can run linux, but not everyone can run XOS2 (only those with the xen can)
To the post about XboxMedia Player and such. Making a legal one, HA.
Find me someone thats willing to do that using the XOS as a platform, no one ! They rather do it via cromwell/linux. IF your gonna put that much work into something, might as well make it so everone can use it.
Edit:
To add, "Problem finding binaries" have u NEVER heard of Xbins ?
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 06:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 02:36 PM) |
| The X3 Bios is only for the X3 chip. That my friend is NOT 100% of the market. |
The point of the post U are quoting is to say, the X3 bios being derived from the MS core, will do EVERYTHING that a normal xbox bios can do.
The XOS will never be able to do that, well never say never, but it would have to include ALL the calls to the video chips, hal, memory, the api calls, pretty much a whole new devkit+bios. It takes MS many months and MANY people to develop the xbox bios, you think a few (1 or 2) guys at Xodus will be able to do the same in a month or two.
Why was X3 bios/mod brounght into this convo anyways.
Have a problem? Wanna chat? Come to IRC and ill chat with ANYONE that wants to debate this.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 06:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (greengiant @ May 23 2004, 02:57 PM) |
| To the post about XboxMedia Player and such. Making a legal one, HA. Find me someone thats willing to do that using the XOS as a platform, no one ! They rather do it via cromwell/linux. IF your gonna put that much work into something, might as well make it so everone can use it. |
There are already some available under linux, freevo and mythtv are the most comprehensive, a number of others too.
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 06:06:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 03:00 PM) |
| I for one am an MS dev, not Linux. Not because I can't but because I chose to develop for the masses. I don't want to wait five minutes to boot into Linux to run a few apps. And until they make a version of Linux that you can read without getting a migraine trying to read it then Linux is not going to work out. Also after you mess around in the Apps on the XOS you can boot a bios without rebooting the box. Can you do this in Linux? (Nope) I installed it on my box and I admit It would have been really cool, But like I said I cant read it. I will be removing it until they can fix that issue. (I can't afford an HD TV) So the XSO boots in less than one minute. Then I can make cool looking apps for the XBox (Defrag and many other apps that people want), and boot them easily. I can build a media player to my needs (And legal). I can post it on the Scene without getting banned. Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be. There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them. |
For sure, you must dev for MS if you want to reach the masses. No doupt.
"Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be.
There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them."
Linux has been runing on xbox for quite some time now, bootable distro's made just for 1 purpose (may it be flash the tsop (raincoat) or media (linux live)) which boot fast, and donot require much messing with.
Why hasn't the scene done anything with this ?
THe same applies to the XOS.
Also to add,
ncaissie what are you doing wasting cdn gov equipment for your blatant stupidy on this thread. go back to your desk job so I can get my papers back sooner. no wonder it takes 8-infinity weeks to get stuff from the gov.
to chimpanzee:
yeah i have seen some very nice linux based media players, and packaged in a xbox linux easy to use manner. its pretty nice what has been done with it.
When i said the statement, i was refering to someone making a media player exclusive to the XOS2.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 06:19:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 03:00 PM) |
| I for one am an MS dev, not Linux. Not because I can't but because I chose to develop for the masses. I don't want to wait five minutes to boot into Linux to run a few apps. And until they make a version of Linux that you can read without getting a migraine trying to read it then Linux is not going to work out. Also after you mess around in the Apps on the XOS you can boot a bios without rebooting the box. Can you do this in Linux? (Nope) I installed it on my box and I admit It would have been really cool, But like I said I cant read it. I will be removing it until they can fix that issue. (I can't afford an HD TV) So the XSO boots in less than one minute. Then I can make cool looking apps for the XBox (Defrag and many other apps that people want), and boot them easily. I can build a media player to my needs (And legal). I can post it on the Scene without getting banned. Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be. There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them. |
five minutes to boot to linux ? how about 5 to 10 seconds if configured properly. I have installed a linux running Freevo that can come up in that amount of time. I use it to watch DVD/VCD or ripped DVD on HDD/samba share. Playing MP3 etc. as well. Can browse internet too but admittedly TV is really not for it but not bad for checking email. Or doing TV recording if I don't mind shell out for the device.
Xenium OS is reinventing the wheel and because of its rather small base, it would take people a lot of time to build up the apps arsenal.
As I said in other posts, it is something cool to work on but it really is a high order to achieve what it wants to achieve. I see the Xbox scene divids between the homebrew(huge base, almost every Xbox can run) or linux(for legality).
I am a developer for MS(well not Xbox but those SQL server/.NET stuff) but more and more for linux as it is much more fun to play with.
Post by: alwaysonjohn on May 23, 2004, 07:06:00 AM
I love my xenium.. *PUN INTENDED*btw... you guys need to respect greengiant and heinrech... I am surprised they are still around... you guys are as old as the dust in my first xbox.
Post by: muerte on May 23, 2004, 07:52:00 AM
| QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 07:49 AM) |
| What ? The x3 bios will still run all the same homebrew and retail code that we have been using for years now, the XOS will never achieve that. |
heinrich... i don't agree with how you compare the XOS to a bios. the XOS is legal, the bios is not. a better comparison would be the XOS vs X3 Config Live!
Post by: heinrich on May 23, 2004, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: muerte on May 23, 2004, 09:16:00 AM
| QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 11:39 AM) |
| So what is cromwell if not a bios? Illegal/legal, who cares. |
It matters, because X3 Config Live! will never be able to run homebrew software. there's a big difference.
Post by: heinrich on May 23, 2004, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: bucko on May 23, 2004, 09:51:00 AM
Post by: muerte on May 23, 2004, 10:09:00 AM
| QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 12:49 PM) |
| XOS -> x2 bios -> evox x3 bios -> (x3 config live) -> evox "x3 config live" is an .xbe in their bios. The x3 bios PLUS "x3 config live" will be seen as the 'OS' for the x3 just as xeniumOS is the OS for the xenium (btw, whatever happened to "Xenium UI" ?). We can go back and forth for a week comparing one thing to another, so lets just leave it at we dont agree |
not arguing... but just wondering. will the x3 have the x3 config live right on the modchip? or will you have to download the bios with the .xbe right in it? if you're right, that means that xecuter will be shipping out their chips from the factory w/o any sort of interface on the chip (which is, imo, kinda dumb)
Post by: heinrich on May 23, 2004, 10:11:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| X3 Config LIVE! All X3 Config Live! features are displayed on screen * All works direct from new X3 on any new install. |
Post by: athirne on May 23, 2004, 04:45:00 PM
This is funny.
XOS 2.0 is about what is coming, not what it is. Any initial platform is not going to be vary feature rich. It takes a long time to write one of these programs from scratch. The only thing I can fault team OzXodus with is that it took them a damn long time to just tell people that they were having problems because they needed to compleatly re-do the XOS from scratch without any Linux component.
Multi-threading -
I belive that they are not talking about playing games and doing other things at the same time. multithreading is prevented in the xbox in software.
Lets say you are transfering files back and forth using FTP. at the same time you could be listening to a MP3 or be playing an emulator.
XOS is not a BIOS and XOS as a dashboard-
This is 100% correct but you are not thinking technecly. The dashboard is simply used to load a game or control functions. One does not need to call up the dashboard exactly to launch a game. When you insert the a game into a normal xbox please note that by default it is set up to boot the BIOS and THEN the DVD, the dashboard only gets called up if there is no default.xbe avalible on the D partition. The game then calls up files from the hard drive that realate to Active X and other components, but NOT the dashboard itself.
Now lets just say that the XOS becomes a dashboard. The XOS acts as its own BIOS as sorts, kinda like a pre BIOS (works between the power on and BIOS start). This then allows you to do anything you could in, say Avalaunch. So now you have a launcher that works outside of the confines of the xbox BIOS enviornment.
Yes this new enviornment does not work with XDK compiled software but I am getting to that.
Anyways now you can do things like FTP, play MP3s, and run any moduals or programs writen for this enviornment without the confines of a MS baded BIOS.
Lets say you want to start XBMC or a game.
Just like in any dashboard you can go in a menue to select a game or applications and start executing it.
Now this is where things get different. As an example I am going to use X2 4981 as an example.
If you want to launch an application that the path is already dictated as the first boot option (such as DVD or without a DVD in as the first HD boot option) it will now halt tasks, clear itself out of memory, and hand control over to the xbox BIOS.
However lets say you launch a xbox game you backed up onto your hard drive so you dont have to drag disks around to LAN parties. BIOS cooking allows the XOS to make a temporary copy of the BIOS and alter it to point to the proper .XBE and then all of the unloading and other such stuff is done as in the last paragraph.
They dont need to make their own BIOS to run or execute programs. THey dont even NEED others to recompile their programs or games for XOS. If they do though then they gain more flexebility and functionality, but it is not needed at all.
BIOS cooking takes a seccond or two and since the XOS will be able to boot a BIOS from the hard drive it will not have to be flashed to the chip.
LCD -
Well vary few people will actualy use this feature so I assume that they are more concerned about the framework of their new system then LCD support. Then again since the LCD support was implemented and shown off so long ago they may not feel the need to list it as a feature. It is already assumed in and they are focusing more on the new features they havent talked about.
Then again it could just be that they implemented it under the 1.x system, figured out they were reaching the limit to the old system and decided to make a new one, leaving this not commonly used feature until latter.
Propaganda -
Lets face this every team is neck deep in this. the X3 is still vapoware to most of the community, SmartXX has released quite a few releases that kill EEPROMs and for the longest time their chip and OS was vapoware, and OzXodus is just trying to keep people interested while they try to pull a entirely new OS out of their hats with every one of thier compeditors trying to capitalize on the dificulty and time it takes to do it.
The modchip scenes are no longer what they were like during the early PS2 and PSx days. It is now a buisness. Marketing, slam tactics, ect are now common place. And because this is a gray area market (the product is not exactly illigal) there are no fair competition rules.
If someone wants to take a feature from someone else they can do it without any fear of legal reprisals. You cant copyright or enforce the originality of your code without risking some conecequences.
The customer may be in the dark, but so is the competition. The only way to beat someone is to be there first or to implement something better.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 23, 2004, 05:21:00 PM
pity u need 2 be right next 2 ur Xbox 2 read it. As for the person that was saying when u listen 2 winamp dont u turn off ur monitor well yes you do but ur monitor was on ,in the first place so u can load winamp, So im sure that turning on ur TV 2 select media player then turning off the TV will be the same thing. Now before u all start going off about the typos ECT I got 2 tell you something this is my opinion & how I feel.
Never the less Ozxodus , xecuter, smartxx All have done a good job in the scene along with other chip makers but now its time 2 see which company will shoot off to a lead.
Before I let you guys go take this into consideration.
What would u buy a car that basically can do everything it could with afew mods added?
Or a car with a new design that was completely different & new to what is released 2 day with the freedom 2 do what ever u want e.g. want 2 build your own turbo then u build it. Want it 2 fly then program it 2 fly make it blow up then go ahead.
Post by: swolsten on May 23, 2004, 05:39:00 PM
Other than the same feature list that has been regurgitated by Xecuter for the same 6 months the X3 has very little to offer, I think that if you look at the real content of the X3 list you will only find a few simple little bios hacks that can be done without using XBTool unlike what appears to be a revolutionary upgrade like XOS2.
I'll let the facts speak for themselves, Samba support is great as it means you can transfer files to and from your PC using like any shared network resource. This is particularly useful for flashing a bios onto your Xenium as you will not need to use CDs or webbrowsers any longer, you could either pull the file from the network drive or copy it onto your XBox first.
Pendrive support also opens up a few more possibilities for bios flashing, installers can just plug in a USB Memory Stick to load the bios, again no need for CD buring.
FTP built into the O/S is awesome, I know that SmartXX have a similar feature in ED @ Chip but its crap.
Yet again I get the feeling that everytime OzXodus do anything special, the blind xecuter supporters come rushing in. A complete rewrite of the O/S is a mammoth task and I'm sure that OzXodus would not have undertaken a job like that unless they could see the long term benefits, I haven't seen this magical X3 Config Live that has supposedly been in development for 12 months but I can now appreciate where the true talent in the scene lies, the Xbox-linux guys did a superb job with the Cromwell development and this has been highly acclaimed by all in the scene. The RTOS implementation in XOS2 is a similar project done in record time in my opinion and all the fans of Xecuter and SmartXX should just accept that they have just had another innovation done by the team who they don't follow.
The other major thing that a lot of you guys are missing is that there is no longer a need for XDK for those people wishing to develop applications for the Xbox in a legal way, in a commercial sense too this is as huge as all the hype OzXodus has been generating.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 23, 2004, 05:50:00 PM
Post by: ncaissie on May 23, 2004, 06:10:00 PM
I have been trying to get that through these peoples heads, but I guess I'm just not as good with words. lol
Post by: asnagrim on May 23, 2004, 06:37:00 PM
It may seem like a risk for ozxodus to completely drop the cromwell development environment, but consider how long it took to even get usb support into cromwell.
Not to mention that just the ability to create and run legally distributable xbox apps without the need to also run linux is a huge development.
When someone asks where to find the latest xbmc, you tell them, "http://www.xboxmediacenter.com". Its much easier to find than "the usual places", which means that more people will find it and install it.
It means developers can advertise their legal applications if they wish.
I would be very surprised if every dev team didnt get a xenium as soon as xos2 is released.
If that wasnt enough, how about smb and pendrive support? How about being able to browse your xbox hard drive from the pc. How about never needing to make another bios dvd or dashboard/apps iso because you can just transfer them straight over to the xbox?!
It is going to take quite alot of work for the other mod teams to come up with something that equals the xos2 in my opinon.
I dont think the xenium is just a new generation chip, its a whole new era!
Post by: OpusDei on May 23, 2004, 06:52:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| How about being able to browse your xbox hard drive from the pc. How about never needing to make another bios dvd or dashboard/apps iso because you can just transfer them straight over to the xbox?! |
| QUOTE |
| How about never needing to make another bios dvd or dashboard/apps iso because you can just transfer them straight over to the xbox?! |
you can do this with X3 of course - didnt you read the feature list (in fact you could do this with the old x2 4978 bios - actually you can do this with any mod and any bios - its called evox or avalaunch or any dash that has an ftp server)
the over reaction in this thread is simply unbievable
how some of you try to belittle xecuters contribution to the scene over the last 2 years is laughable - and evox's contributions have been forgotten all of a sudden (ftp server) - you all talk about legal distro - oh PLEASE give me a break. We are here to hack the Xbox plain and simple. legal distro is for the modchip makers - that covers 99% of the scene's wants and needs when it comes to legal distro of the hardware - you all (well most of you) end up getting hold of an illegal bios so all this talk of legal legal legal really is funny stuff
regardless of how much you all jerk off over this - what bios will you use after booting XOS2 - yep Xecuter or Evox.
How many legal linux apps and openxdk apps do you all use right now compared to hacked apps built with XDK - and Linux has been around for 2 years.
this is little more than the usual spew of Xodus marketing drivel. lets see where the scene is in 6 months before people start saying the scene is going to change forever. What a joke. Ill tell you when the scene changed forever - with the Enigamh modchip and with the Evox Dashboard - beyond XBMC we do little more now than we did then - apart from enjoying toying around with funky bios features and hardware mods to the xbox itself (not modchips)
some ppl can be just way to anal about this shit
Post by: Elf1 on May 23, 2004, 07:11:00 PM
Major Kudos to Cromwell but this is the wave of the future and the possibilities of this OS are staggering. I hear alot about X3 and to be honest I used xecuter chips for installs for a long time but never have I seen anything this inovative.
To compare this new OS to anything we have now is just nuts no disrespect meant to X3 but the features of X3 would have been more inovative in the 3rd generation of chips. It is aparent now why the XOS2 has taken so much longer but it was only first mentioned a couple months ago it is not like we had been waiting for a half a year for it.
I am happy to finally have something new in the scene worth getting excited and posting about.
Hats off to team OzXodus for what is sure to set the bar to a new height.
Post by: athirne on May 23, 2004, 07:29:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| you can do this with X3 of course - didnt you read the feature list (in fact you could do this with the old x2 4978 bios - actually you can do this with any mod and any bios - its called evox or avalaunch or any dash that has an ftp server) |
no you cant and he is talking about first install. Normaly you have to make a install CD that has a BIOS, any updates to any would be modchip OS, and the a dashboard that has an FTP.
Then you apply any updates, then the BIOS, then you load the dashboard with the FTP from the CD. Now you can FTP stuff.
However all one needs to do now is have an xbox hooked up to a network with a computer on it. transfer stuff over (FTP, HTTP, SMB, Telnet, ect). Then you can have at it.
This is what 4th gen is suposed to be about. Ease of management, ease of updates, consolidation of utilities, and ease of use. All of the teams are going towards this. Despite what you say this IS a big thing for the community.
Anyone remember the "good old days" when you had to run two or three utilities to swap the hard drive? Then it went from those down to embeded in a dashboard. Now it is finaly in the modchip, done in two or three "clicks", and everything transfers too!
| QUOTE |
| how some of you try to belittle xecuters contribution to the scene over the last 2 years is laughable - and evox's contributions have been forgotten all of a sudden (ftp server) |
We are not belitteling xecutor or EvoX. We are just talking about inovation BEYOND what they did. They made the wheel, others and improving upon it.
Infact that is why I am sure Xecutor is delaying X3 because of a custom OS for their modchip. They are just to experenced with hardware and programing to have it a problem with anything petty like a problem with the Linux code or the hardware design itself.
As for EvoX yes they did wonderful things for the scene. But they arent realy doing anything interesting beyond their Trainers. Its a simple design and functional, but now there are dashboards that are even simpler and even more functional.
| QUOTE |
| you all talk about legal distro - oh PLEASE give me a break. We are here to hack the Xbox plain and simple. legal distro is for the modchip makers - that covers 99% of the scene's wants and needs when it comes to legal distro of the hardware - you all (well most of you) end up getting hold of an illegal bios so all this talk of legal legal legal really is funny stuff |
Currently the only thing you can do that is legal is run Linux or Linux code on the xbox. The more things we can do that are legal legitimises the modification of hardware and the more legal defence you can make.
If someone gets sued for selling or developing modchips or software for them its one more legal defence. You may not think of it as important, but it is the next step for legitimizing the scene.
| QUOTE |
| regardless of how much you all jerk off over this - what bios will you use after booting XOS2 - yep Xecuter or Evox. |
When did someone (besides a newb that doesnt understand what we are talking about) claim otherwise? the X2 bios series is some fine (illegal) work. The only complaint is now it is encrypted so you cant do legitimat things with it (like modify paths).
I sugest you read some posts in here to understand what is is interesting about what is happening in the 4th gen circles. 4th gen is not about hardware it is 90% the software on the chip. You can use any chip to have a BIOS and switch between them. Its the 4th gen that lets you have unpresedented control combined with ease of use.
Post by: OpusDei on May 23, 2004, 07:44:00 PM
anyway - have a beer on me
Post by: kevhonda on May 23, 2004, 08:02:00 PM
Im very glad when i jumped in this scene around the first of the year I decided to wait and get an Xenium. Never before have i seen so many Xecuter fans come to this forum and post, could this be to drag us PROUD Xenium owners down?? Xenium DEV team ive said it before and ill say it again and again (from the looks of it) HATS OFF!!! Its times like these you just gotta be glad to be part of the family
Post by: OpusDei on May 23, 2004, 08:12:00 PM
i speak of not just xecuter but other xbox teams also
I only mention X3 after seeing others post about X3 - which I have no idea why as this was an XOS2 thread?
The only funtion that anyone is giving any salt is this legal app development (which has been possible of course with linux in the past)
However I also notice from your signature your mod runs a hacked bios developed by Evox - nothing to do with Xenium.
So in fact you could have simply owned a cheapmod and had the same setup ?
yep welcome to the "family"
Dailey
I appreciate what you are saying but for you to compare this XOS2 as innfluential as DOS was is what I would call a bit over the top.
I believe the major flaw here with this being able to "change the scene forever" is making the bios work on any modchip - otherwise its just another M$ monopoly. At least with Evox and Xecuter and other mod / bios makers they were all interchangeable - thats true homebrew and scene support I guess.
Anyway bed time for me
Post by: kevhonda on May 23, 2004, 08:27:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Kevhonda no fanboys here (in fact read what youve just posted - you sound like a fanboy yourself) |
I think you need to re-read and re-read my post i didnt bash evox in fact i use evox, i wasnt bashing anything so why even bring up the fact that i have a evox bios in my signature..??? You are right i should have just done a cheapmod or a softmod for that matter, but after doing both to friends i think ill stick with my xenium. Do us all a favor and weigh your options out in the xecuter forums. OH yeah i never said i wasnt a fanboy i will admit i do own the best product on the market
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 10:06:00 PM
Notes so you ppl get it straight:
-You wont find XBMC redoing their app just so it will run as a legal app on XOS only.
-You can already ftp and access the xbox hd from the pc, either via ftp or via the Windows Shell Addon + any debug bios (you see it like a shared drives)
-You can flash any modchip from the pc, may be using evox and ftp/telnet commands, or the smartxx web flashing technique.
-LCD is handy, gadget. When you promise something in this scene, you beter be ready to provide or else everyone will gang up on you (as shown by this and many other threads)
-Cromwell/Linux has been around for some time, but you dont see it BURSTING as the XOS2 claims it will do. Devs rather develop with the XDK, then with Cromwell/Linux and if they feel like a challenge XOS2.
-X3 config, is exactly that, the config side of the x3 bios. The key is it integrates right into the xbox as a normal bios.
-Whats the point of having the XOS modify the default dash path in a ms bios to boot a diff xbe, when you can just use a new das (evox, ava, nexgen) and load up whatever xbe you want
"Even though one cannot accuratly weigh the pros and cons until the XOS 2 is released I know for a fact my future projects will be compiled to work with the XOS.
Also your right it's not free, I made that statement from my point of view being a Xenium owner, for those who do not own a xenium they will have to purchase one. "
So you will make your apps (whatever they may be, not sure what you have done alreayd for the scene but whatever) so they work on XOS and xbox directly as an XBE. Good luck, by the 2nd or 3rd app you make thats worthwhile you will disgard the XOS and stick to only XBE.
XBMC would not be made for only xecuter, or smartxx, or xenium (in theory)
because that cuts out to much of the user base, the user base that will benefit from the app.
The only apps you will truly need to dev directly for the XOS would be things that use the xen itself, like the spi port or bank stuff, or possibly ftp/web/telnet sort of stuff.. but tools and apps will not be practical.
What if Sony decided to make their line of DVD Videos only work on Sony DVD Players, well thats pretty stupid as theyr loosing out on a major area of the market. But if they made a DVD that would allow sony dvd playrs to play mp3's then oviously you make it only for the sony dvd player.
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 10:09:00 PM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 23 2004, 09:59 PM) |
| I mean that opens up a question for all of you xecuter 2.x owners, how do you feel about having to buy a new chip to take advantage of the X3 features? |
Well how do Chameleon Owners feel having to upgrade to a new chip?
How do Matrix owners feel having to upgrade to a new chip ?
same logic. think next time.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 10:46:00 PM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 24 2004, 04:16 AM) |
| Imagine turning your $150 Xbox into a TiVo, a WebtTV, a Workstation, A media Center and a Game Console all in one without having to do heavy modifications to the apps/dashboards/bioses/insert your problem here. |
That is pretty simple. Just a modchip with cromwell which can be turned off, already available. Disabling it, Xbox in its retail form and play those games.
Enabling it, linux is up and all they things you imagine is there(the software, hardware etc.). In fact, since cromwell supports booting from DVD, the specific application(linux distributions) can be burnt to standard CD/DVD and boot and run from there, just like what we do with Xbox games. No need to touch the HD in anyway.
Xbox is nothing but a PC(x86 machine) with a TV out video card with a very nice packaging and great price. Xenium is just an attempt to create yet another OS for this platform, we have seen many of them. I am sure it will have its supporters but I would advice people to do a bit of research on what the alternative OSs for x86 ends up.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 10:58:00 PM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 24 2004, 06:59 AM) |
| Now with XOS, you can still use OpenXDK or linux to program your applications, you can still do everything that has been built up until now and you can continue to use those ways of doing things, but it easier to just use XOS and now it can be done without the worry of persecution from M$. |
Easier in what way ? What would be the compiler used ? How about a source/version control environment. Or may be what IDE to use like MS's Visual.Net(or its linux equivalent) ? How about documentations to let others understanding it ?
How much effort is needed to put all these supporting infrastructure in place for a new OS ?
Post by: greengiant on May 23, 2004, 11:11:00 PM
| QUOTE (chimpanzee @ May 23 2004, 10:46 PM) |
| That is pretty simple...... |
Very well said !
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 11:28:00 PM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 24 2004, 08:15 AM) |
| ... or you could have one menu to select all those. Select linux and it loads, copy data from a disk to a folder on your hdd it does it. run a game? sure. Ftp? got it. whats not there can be made. |
Um, I must have some misunderstanding of XOS then. As an alternative OS, it can run its own applications without reboot but once say I choose to do something that is orginal intended fo Xbox(playing games), XOS would be out of the picture I believe. I would need a reboot to have it kick in again.
So the only convenience I can see is that instead of booting into linux(that may take some seconds), I load some XOS applications(that may also take some seconds, may be a bit shorter) to do the auxiliary stuff(ftp etc.). The only advantage I see is XOS being the first being loaded don't have to boot into again to run its own applications. May be a few seconds benefit. Once I need to venture out to other things that requires 'BIOS', it lose control of the machine.
This is very different from a VM style OS which can just slice the machine and load Xbox BIOS so I can run games, press a button of the controller and load cromwell to load linux at the same time. Now if that can be done, it would be something special. In fact, there is a project that happens to called 'Xen' that is able to do it.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2004, 11:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 24 2004, 08:15 AM) |
| I mean given the options between the old ways of doing things like installing linux/apps/boises and the new way of doing things, which way is a newbie gonna go? I'm not a newbie and I know how to do pretty much everything with an xbox and I am going to prefer going with XOS. You guys like the old ways then thats your prerogative. |
I prefer the new way which in fact is the first question I asked on this forum, using Xenium to load different BIOS and use readily available applications. Xbox BIOS for games, cromwell/linux for Tivo like stuff, hacked BIOS for homebrew.
So all I need is just a loader with a configurable interface(controlled by the joystick or IR), the auxillary applications like ftp, bios flashing etc. is nice but that IMO is the limit. Anything beyond that would take way too much effort and I very doubt is viable.
As I have said before, nothing needs to be installed, linux can run happily from the CD/DVD, same goes for backup games on DVD by hacked BIOS I believe.
Post by: Xbox-Gear on May 24, 2004, 12:53:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Where's the true 4th gen features like FTP, HTTP flashing, Prog Scan OS support, etc? |
*Built-in FTP server, without relying on launching a second app or OS
*Full client/server SMB (Windows Networking) support, integrated directly with the file system drivers, allowing you to copy files Xbox->pc and pc->Xbox, from either XOS or your PC do you understand ? This is more advanced then webflashing by FAR , for many of you who have completely been mesmerized, this means that if you have bios files on your pc , you simply navigate your pcs network shares , pick the bios file and flash it , same principle with the pen drive support. Webflashing is by far an inferior method and just lets you upload a bios file from a web browser on a pc to xbox.. Samba is a truly 4th generation concept , it has surprassed the method of webflashing and took it up several considerable steps. Now we can even use it to copy files to the xbox from a pc , its a whole windows networking system for your box , explain to me how this isnt 4th generation and how http flashing is ? you have already been shown up for your naivety by not even READING the full feature list
The new os from OzXodus , is a completely dedicated operated system , legal might I say , it is not based on some modified MS bios code
To you , I would suggest you actually read the information of which is presented to you and learn the meaning of implicature (reading between the lines).
| QUOTE |
| It's still vaporware. There is still no commited release date. It's going to beta in a few days, so who knows when/if we'll get a release version. |
Its still vaporware ? Not at all , OzXodus hit the scene in emphatic style with the release of the Xenium , they havent let anyone down. The reason for delays is to ensure the final product is free of as many defects as possible and gives you the best possible end experience. Xenium OS V2 , will be with us any day now , I admit soon can be misleading and frustrating , its better this way then releasing several mediocore oss a month with little improved or added. Is a few days really going to hurt ? One thing you can be sure of , the ozxodus team will always be constantly working hard and diligently.
| QUOTE |
| to be honest the first thing that popped into my mind was "gee the SmartXX people just won the 1.6 race and posted a brief message and a newly available OS" then no less than 2 news posts later the Xenium people post news that's probably larger in bytes than the XOS2 and still nothing tangable. |
This is a common technique used by all modchip teams , why did Xecuter release their specs list in December ? And a revised one , conveniently a little time after the Xenium OS2 feature list Take a look at the SmartXX os releases - Some small things, users wrote to our whishlist , this is incredibly ambiguous , why not just tell us the small things ? If you go everything with a fine toothcomb you will see there is consistent patterns emerging , noticeably Xecuter posts smack on bang of OzXodus.
| QUOTE |
| Find me someone thats willing to do that using the XOS as a platform, no one ! They rather do it via cromwell/linux. IF your gonna put that much work into something, might as well make it so everone can use it. |
With all due respect , I am sure there will be people willing to do such things using the XOS platform in the future , you do not speak for everyone .. , you and heinrich are clearly against OzXodus and very pessimistic , if you cant handle their useful developments as you are shacked up with other teams , work with them and challenge ozx with your work , rather then your mouth honestly , why do you need to play it all down with regards to ozx ?
| QUOTE |
| So what is cromwell if not a bios? Illegal/legal, who cares. |
Cromwell is limited for starters. People will care if the X3 bios turns out to be illegal , retailers will carry the risk of selling copyrighted code with every mod they sell..
Anyone who wants to debate this, please dont bother. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, these opinions are really by the majority unjustified and triggered by alterior motives Ozxodus , are the innovators of the 4th gen modchip thus being an onboard operating system , closely followed by smartxx , and perhaps Xecuter3 IF and WHEN it is actually out. Why is an unreleased product still getting compared to the likes of the xenium , X3 is vaporware , you want to look at people who have been stringing along the scene , look no further than them , Xecuter 3 was due for release , let me think , 2 months ago , no 4 actually a whole year ago. The reason for this delay is because OzXodus have made them go back to the drawing board on a number of occasions , making them the true innovators of the 4th generation. Credit given to where credit is due, OzXodus certainly deserve it.
It's pretty pathetic when you think about it , all OzXodus are doing are adding new features to their mod and people are actually Whining and complaining about them... (biased and people who don't read information comprehensively).
Post by: ViRAL on May 24, 2004, 01:19:00 AM
unfortunatly 48 hours has past and no vid's or beta testers reports yet....i hope this doesn't turn into 3 months again....i want a release on May 28(my 14th b'day!)
Post by: Josh Adams on May 24, 2004, 01:25:00 AM
so does evox actually.
I know its a vital ingredient in the scene but you can't tell me that modifying a kernel from leaked source code is in the same league as writing an OS from the ground up. I'm not trying to put down xecuter's contribution but simply saying that I think that ozxodus has the guys with the most talent.
It is to be expected though, look who is in the team. It is the combination of OzXChip and Xodus afterall, two teams that have innovated in the scene for the entire time they have been around.
Post by: ncaissie on May 24, 2004, 02:59:00 AM
| QUOTE (greengiant @ May 24 2004, 07:06 AM) |
| greengiant Notes so you ppl get it straight: -You wont find XBMC redoing their app just so it will run as a legal app on XOS only. Whats the point of having the XOS modify the default dash path in a ms bios to boot a diff xbe, when you can just use a new das (evox, ava, nexgen) and load up whatever xbe you want XBMC would not be made for only xecuter, or smartxx, or xenium (in theory) because that cuts out to much of the user base, the user base that will benefit from the app. The only apps you will truly need to dev directly for the XOS would be things that use the xen itself, like the spi port or bank stuff, or possibly ftp/web/telnet sort of stuff.. but tools and apps will not be practical. What if Sony decided to make their line of DVD Videos only work on Sony DVD Players, well thats pretty stupid as theyr loosing out on a major area of the market. But if they made a DVD that would allow sony dvd playrs to play mp3's then oviously you make it only for the sony dvd player. |
You have no clue do you?
Who said XBMC needs to build for the XOS? Xenium dev fans will build a different and maybe better one. (Legal one)
the point of the XOS changing the bios XBE is do you won't need a dash!
Build your own menu system in XOS. This would save on boot time.
As a dev and a Xenium Owner I could care less if the scene uses apps I build.
It will be offered free for anyone that wants them, but I will develop for my own needs. (selfish but I will know what I'm getting and have control offer fixes)
and last but not least! Ever heard of the Sony Mini Disc? they didn't make them for every cd Player.
Post by: wiqd on May 24, 2004, 03:07:00 AM
) I have this to say:Someone, I believe it was Dailey, said that people may fault him for being overly passionate about all this. I say, if it weren't for people who were overly passionate about things they believed in, we wouldn't have MANY of the innovations found in just about every aspect of our lives today. People sit down and TRULY want something, so they whack away at it for god knows how long until they get it. Some people forfeit their social / family lives to accomplish exactly what it is they want. OzXodus seems to be pretty passionate about doing things different, trying new things. Everyone fails, there's no other way to learn. Will XOS succeed (I'm not just talking 2.0 either)? Only if people are truly overly passionate about MAKING it succeed. They gave the community something to nurture, something to help grow. They didn't say "hey, here you go, this will do EVERYTHING you ever hoped for with absolutely no work from anyone else, ever." Sure they promised things that haven't been released yet. Sure they use a lot of big words and funny phrases (FUCKIT) to explain things. *shrugs*
Someone else made the comment that "A lot of the Xbox linux apps, current dashes, etc... can do the things that the XOS promises to do or give the possibility to do." Mmmk, seems like if people in history thought that we should just walk instead of using cars to get from point A to B, or to continue using boats to cross the oceans instead of planes, or using snail mail instead of creating the internet usage of email to contact people, we'd be in a pretty piss poor efficient world eh? It's not about redoing things that have already been done. It's about doing things that have already been done better, more efficient, AND adding the ability to expand on that to create new things.
*As a side note, anyone remember the BASF commercial that goes something like "At BASF we don't made the *insert product here*, we make the *insert product here* better.*
Granted, if they ONLY tried to reinvent those things that have been released, thats prett shitty as well, but they haven't. They've created a nice way for new things to be done. Ok, its proprietary and aims at a small user base, which could be bad. But it could also be good, if people pick up on it and develop for it. Everything has the chance to be good or bad, it all depends on the people who support it, and of course, the creators (OzXodus) to continue to support it as well.
Meh, I don't like to post much cuz I ramble, but the arguments surrounding the OS lately are just dumb. If you feel betrayed because something wasn't released, then that's up to you and you can vent however you want, but don't short sight everything just because 1 or 2 things that very well COULD be implemented in a short amount of time BECAUSE OF the way the OS now works weren't put in now.
I'm not gonna comment on specific things because this was just meant as a general overview of stuff, there's way too much to be caught up in when dealing with specific arguments here but seriously, remember the last time you knew something, something SO kewl that you just HAD to tell someone, even if someone told you not to?Or the last time you made such a great accomplishment you wanted everyone to know? While a lot of the hype OzXodus puts out is probably for marketing purposes and could be considered propaganda, I'm sure a lil of it is pride in their work and they just wanna say "hey, look what we did" every once and a while.
Wiqd
Post by: chimpanzee on May 24, 2004, 04:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (dailey @ May 24 2004, 09:15 AM) |
| Dont get me wrong, I like linux but developing applications to be used on an Xbox while going through the linux kernal? One of the ideas I like is actually an older one. people wanted to make their xbox into a TiVo type system and wanted it to be implemented into XBMC. The problem with this idea was that a USB tv tuner card was needed in order to capture the signal, drivers needed to be made for the hardware as well. There were linux drivers available and a system could be set up under linux but after loading the file system and everything there just wasnt enough resources to encode a good bitrate. Before I couldnt see the Xbox being made into a TiVo type unit, but now I can in XOS 2 with it's asynchronous USB support, dll support, LBA48 & multiple hard drive support the sky is the limit. |
Linux has proved itself to be able to run from very limited hardware(my old wireless router which is 486 with 4M RAM) to very powerful hardware. So I can't see why it can't be done on Xbox(Celeron 733, 64M). In fact, as I said it is already there(Freevo, the Tivo equivalent). TV tuner/capturing has been done and someone is running in on Xbox/linux too. The base linux kernel with the drivers supporting all the Xbox hardware may take at most 10M RAM. There is still a lot for many things. Beside, for applications like Tivo, it is the CPU that would be the bottleneck and I can't see how Xenium developer can easily beat developers around the world working on optimizing linux.
I just wanted to say it one more time that what you are imagining that may be possible in the future on XOS is arleady here, on linux running on Xbox.
You are right though that once we are not limited by MS software, the sky is the limit.
I am not saying XOS is no good, just that it would be a long long way to go as it starts everything from scratch and the things I have mentioned(compiler, developing environment, what graphic API system to use etc.) is just way too much thing for a small team to do.
Post by: mcsenerd on May 24, 2004, 04:13:00 AM
Post by: marksu on May 24, 2004, 04:14:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| I am not saying XOS is no good, just that it would be a long long way to go as it starts everything from scratch and the things I have mentioned(compiler, developing environment, what graphic API system to use etc.) is just way too much thing for a small team to do. |
Well it presume the DLL support is not intended in any large scale stuff. It's would be more like some small nice utilities.
They are not trying to invent a other Linux.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 24, 2004, 04:16:00 AM
| QUOTE (wiqd @ May 24 2004, 12:07 PM) |
| Someone else made the comment that "A lot of the Xbox linux apps, current dashes, etc... can do the things that the XOS promises to do or give the possibility to do." Mmmk, seems like if people in history thought that we should just walk instead of using cars to get from point A to B, or to continue using boats to cross the oceans instead of planes, or using snail mail instead of creating the internet usage of email to contact people, we'd be in a pretty piss poor efficient world eh? It's not about redoing things that have already been done. It's about doing things that have already been done better, more efficient, AND adding the ability to expand on that to create new things. |
That is true, except that I can't see why this XOS is in anyway better than linux. Xbox is just a X86 legacy free PC, the linux team has been working on that for over 10 years.
In what way do you think XOS can do it better ? What VM model will it use ? What file system will it use ?
If its goal is just a simplified OS that is targetted to do the general things like a ftp server, BIOS flashing, or some HDD management of existing Xbox and all in a legal way, I can understand. Anything beyond this kind of things especially involving UI, soon people will find that it is much more complex than they thought. You want it to be efficient, you need to cut features(think DOS, that is the most efficient OS on x86), once you start to make it feature rich, it begins to add loads to the OS.
Post by: chimpanzee on May 24, 2004, 04:20:00 AM
| QUOTE (marksu @ May 24 2004, 01:14 PM) |
| Well it presume the DLL support is not intended in any large scale stuff. It's would be more like some small nice utilities. They are not trying to invent a other Linux. |
well, that is not the impression I got :-)
As I said, it would be a viable option to be a 'clean room' implementation of EVOX, but a general purpose OS that allows people to develop all sorts of application on it(the sky is the limit), I would say wishful thinking.
I believe it would be more DOS like, than linux.
Post by: marksu on May 24, 2004, 04:27:00 AM
Still some small apps it is nice to have available straight on the OS 2.0. There is nothing wrong in having new development tools/ways to work on in modding community. It is only a good thing in my opinion.
There is nothing to stop Linux developers to make cromwell bases applications.
Post by: marksu on May 24, 2004, 04:35:00 AM
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 05:30:00 AM
| QUOTE (Josh Adams @ May 24 2004, 10:25 AM) |
| x2 bioses are a bios that does what? plays copied games (oh sorry backups). so does evox actually. I know its a vital ingredient in the scene but you can't tell me that modifying a kernel from leaked source code is in the same league as writing an OS from the ground up. I'm not trying to put down xecuter's contribution but simply saying that I think that ozxodus has the guys with the most talent. It is to be expected though, look who is in the team. It is the combination of OzXChip and Xodus afterall, two teams that have innovated in the scene for the entire time they have been around. |
Unfortunatley this kind of post warrants this kind of reply...
Innovation ?
Oh please....Here is a memory Jog
How about being involved in the first ever Xbox mod
How about the first crack of the v1.1 RC4 key
How about coding most of the hacks you use today - how you can belittle spending many many months developing on original source ??
How about more importantly the first ever LPC hack
You talk about innovation - Xodus came in about a year later - innovation? Adding pogo pins to an already established cheapmod by andy green and making $60 a pop in the process - as you say innovated since they've been here - please
I'm sure this new XOS will be a bright and happy thing for some - but some of you talk like these guys invented the scene or some shit. They even say themselves they are re-inventing it. A huge boast im quite sure will fall flat in the months to come - in the meantime im playing with KAI - which can be used on all mods / bios's and xbox's
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 05:43:00 AM
| QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 24 2004, 11:59 AM) |
| and last but not least! Ever heard of the Sony Mini Disc? they didn't make them for every cd Player. |
Wow you are right !!!
But wait a minute - didnt a hundred other manufacturers make their own mini disc players ???
OMG incredible theory - so either Xodus gives the CPLD source for people to make their own mods to use the XOS2 or - now wait for it - somebody clones it and then you can all get alternative methods
MMMM but isnt cloning bad - aren't they supposed to blow up ? (yeah right)
come on bro - the sony analagy was a bad one
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 05:44:00 AM
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 05:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (wiqd @ May 24 2004, 12:07 PM) |
| Granted, if they ONLY tried to reinvent those things that have been released, thats prett shitty as well, but they haven't. |
hehe
M
A
T
R
I
X
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 05:45:00 AM
| QUOTE (HoRnEyDvL @ May 24 2004, 02:44 PM) |
| If i remember right wasnot the first chip out an enigmah & first bios was an evo-x bios? |
Enigmah = some members of Xecuter
That had a bios already embedded into the CPLD - they patched the changed bytes directly. Of course they developed LPC hack just a few months after that and the rest is history.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 05:52:00 AM
Post by: lookformeb on May 24, 2004, 05:54:00 AM
| QUOTE (ViRAL @ May 24 2004, 04:19 AM) |
| what and xecuter hasn't? don't forget, they have the bios that is prob on 90% of modded xboxes, and the chip(X2) which i think most modded xboxes also have. |
I believe this goes had in hand. When you have a widely known BIOS with you name, obviously the chip will sell.
Xecuter's BIOS' have been prominant mostly because of the source they had, a large portion of the original MS code. Now that the code has been released, what Xecuter has done in over a year has been duplicated on less than 4 hours. True, the coders are following the footstepts, but that is still a great feat.
It is my opinion that you can expect the percentage of Xecuter BIOS' used on modchips do decrease raiply after other (old and newformed) BIOS teams release their finalised product, with full support. There's a whole new ballgame out there for BIOS' now...
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 05:57:00 AM
Xtender Xbox Mod Chip
The Xtender Xbox mod chip works on ALL Xbox models from ALL regions and plays every Xbox game including originals, import originals and all backups. It is reported to work with any CD-RW media, any DVD-R media, any DVD-RW media. The Xtender Xbox modchip claims to be very easy to solder and requires only basic soldering skills. A special feature is the ability to run unsigned code, as well as patched or modified files, opening the door for amateur development of Xbox software. Latest news confirm that the Xtender mod chip disables DVD Macrovision.
The Enigmah Xbox Mod Chip
Another chinese group is launching the Enigmah Mod Chip for Xbox. Similar in specs to the Xtender mod-chip, it requires 29 wires, but also removes Macrovision. There are two optional wires to solder for Macrovision Off and further two wires for DVD Reset Function.
The Enigmah Xbox Mod chip is now shipping since June 13 2002. You can also purchase a pre-modified Xbox console (U.S. model) with the Enigmah mod-chip preinstalled.
News June 28 2002 - It looks as if MS is successful in counteracting the Xbox mod chip development.
NeoX xbox modchip cancelled
The NeoX, which was the first announced Xbox Mod Chip ever will stay a rumour forever. The promoters of this device have now announced that they won't pursue it further due to various reasons. Another source said that there WILL be a Neo-X but it will be intentionally restricted in function to only defeat the country region lock-out and cannot be used for any form of piracy. We suspect legal reasons for this decision.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 05:58:00 AM
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 05:59:00 AM
| QUOTE (lookformeb @ May 24 2004, 02:54 PM) |
| Now that the code has been released, what Xecuter has done in over a year has been duplicated on less than 4 hours. True, the coders are following the footstepts, but that is still a great feat. |
This is totally innaccurate - this bios you speak of has been worked on for weeks and weeks now and its still doesnt have everything x2 has and no where near x3
i listen in irc rooms too.
Post by: OpusDei on May 24, 2004, 06:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (HoRnEyDvL @ May 24 2004, 02:58 PM) |
| so which 1 was it xecuter fan boys was it enigmah or was it xtender ? choose 1. |
Enigamh was sold 2 weeks before xtender
xtender actually had many bugs in their first release that were not present in enigmah (macrovision not working - auto patching hack) and they didnt have a v1.1 fix for quite a few weeks
you are reading some old ass news site - both chips came from the UK and were sold head to head at Manchester Bowlers show. I remember being around when ppl were raving at watching the enigmah boot new stuff - when the xtender stand couldnt get their xbox to work lol
However thread has kind of inadvertently been hijacked - apologies. back to XOS2 discussion - I guess no point talking about x3 vs xenium (2.0?) until they are both in our hands.
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 06:08:00 AM
Lets just be greatfull that we have chips for the xbox & we can do waht ever we want with em & who cares whos is better man.
U look at chip developers but when u come 2 think about it what good would these chips be if we didnot have software developers for the xbox what apps would u be running then?
Post by: Josh Adams on May 24, 2004, 06:20:00 AM
I suspect he is a Xecuter fanboy or team member sent to cause trouble in the Xenium area, my post that OpusDei decided to pull apart was just trying to express my opinion that Xecuter aren't currently the leaders when it comes to talent. I want to know why X3 is still unavailable if Xecuter are so good. Oh yer thats it "real life issues" or is it "achohol" that they keep blaming. I can't remember which one they use as the excuse for the X3 delay (are we at 12 months yet) and which one they use for the buggy bioses.
I too hear rumours about new bioses emerging and I wonder how long these teams have been working on it for, it will be interesting if they come up with a bios that is comparible with the X2 series or even the X3 bios. I also wonder how far bios development would be advanced now if these guys had got the sources at the same time as Xecuter.
I used to be a fan of Xecuter products but I lost faith by the arrogance of the team leader and the constant excuses for X3 delays, it appears my decision to switch my support for the OzXodus products is proving to be a very wise move. Yes I am a Xenium fanboy, but at least I don't go into the Xecuter section of these forums to put down the efforts of the other team. OzXodus has contributed more to the scene as far as innovation in the last 6 months than Xecuter have in the past twelve months and this is why I can say with confidence that OzXodus is pulling away from Xecuter at great speed. Don't misunderstand me, I am thankful for the X2 bios series and I have respect for Xecuter for their contribution. But lets see where things are at in another six months and I seriously doubt i'll be eating these words.
I wonder what OpusDei will pick out of this post!
Post by: Josh Adams on May 24, 2004, 06:25:00 AM
| QUOTE (flabbergast @ May 24 2004, 03:19 PM) |
| If they were doing this for the scene and not money they would release it to work on all chips just like xecutor do with all there bios and bios configuration tool and Xbox linux team and others do. |
If I am not mistaken the OS is hardware dependant since all the chips use different hardware and use that hardware in unique ways. It's unrealistic to think that OzXodus could make their OS work on all modchips. And there is a massive difference between the hacked MS kernel and the XOS2 so in my opinion that is not a very good comparison. You must also remember that the Xecuter bioses are free because it is great advertising for Xecuter. No flaming intended.
Post by: marksu on May 24, 2004, 06:31:00 AM
Post by: HoRnEyDvL on May 24, 2004, 06:45:00 AM