Post by: Be Absentminded on April 05, 2004, 04:39:00 PM
-Jameson
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on April 05, 2004, 04:52:00 PM
It is because Xenium is the most popular 4th generation modchip
Post by: Be Absentminded on April 05, 2004, 04:59:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I just wanted to know cause it seems very strange to me that it's the only 4th gen chip that's been faked/cloned. |
......I guess some people don't like to read the entire post before they reply.
-Jameson
Post by: Master-Chief on April 05, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
| QUOTE (Cavalierz24 @ Apr 5 2004, 08:55 PM) |
| They arn't the only ones being cloned...unless you are just talking about the 4gen chips. Team OzXodus is the only one that is dumb enough to freely give out the information on how to perfect the fakes. |
Who's the dumb one now, may I ask?
OZXodus is doing a GREAT job letting us differenciate our chips from clones to ensure that we do NOT possess cloned chips.
Post by: LepPpeR on April 05, 2004, 05:58:00 PM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Apr 5 2004, 09:35 PM) |
| Who's the dumb one now, may I ask? OZXodus is doing a GREAT job letting us differenciate our chips from clones to ensure that we do NOT possess cloned chips. |
I believe he thinks that by showing what is different it allows the cloners to perfect their errors and make an exact replica of the Legitimate Xenium.
Post by: heinrich on April 05, 2004, 07:13:00 PM
smartxx cpld = quicklogic, more expensive and not so easy to crack.
And saying that ozxodus is telling the cloners how to make their chip more original looking is just plain dumb. Unless you are naive to think that said parties do not actually own a xenium.
Post by: Cavalierz24 on April 05, 2004, 07:32:00 PM
Post by: Kmoney on April 05, 2004, 08:14:00 PM
Post by: marksu on April 05, 2004, 08:15:00 PM
If cloners would in till the end be able to make a totally original looking chip that is not a problem. Ozxodus would just make major changes on the outlook of the chip and cloners would need to start from beginning (outlook wise).
Post by: Tommy Vercetti on April 05, 2004, 08:47:00 PM
| QUOTE (Be Absentminded @ Apr 5 2004, 08:59 PM) |
| ......I guess some people don't like to read the entire post before they reply. -Jameson |
ONLY the 4th Gen chips?? What is that??? TWO whole chips?? what else is 4th gen besides Xenium and SmartXX??
They are gonna get cloned cuz its the next best thing. Why spend time and money to clone old technology when what people want is bigger and better?
I think its pretty self explanatory.
Post by: marksu on April 05, 2004, 08:49:00 PM
It would be a hasle for ppl to reply same comments on several threads.
In the end the forum admin would have to merge them.
I guess you did not realise that
My first msg on that thread would fit as reply to your msg.
Post by: Cavalierz24 on April 05, 2004, 09:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (grug @ Apr 6 2004, 05:51 AM) |
| What a load of crap. XP wasn't cracked for quite some time after its release. The main problem was the fact that volume license keys don't require activation at all, so no cracking was required...and these (unaltered) copies of XP with the volume license key were out 2 months before XP was. And they didn't come up with a VLK keygen for about 6-9 months....which is why the majority of installs were using the FCKGW key and why MS blocked it in SP1. What exactly would you like OzXodus to do? a) Take the wrap for a bunch of terrible clones  inform purchasers that they must have received a cloned chip, or c) tell purchases HOW to tell they have received a cloned chip and what to do about it, and where to purchase to be guaranteed an official Xenium.The cloners are certainly trying, but it is very, very, very hard to get the chips looking identical. There will always be small differences. |
I know for a fact that XP was cracked within 4 hours of it's release.
I don't expect OXodus to do anything I think they have done enought iun telling us who are their trused dealers and I expect the public to go to one of those trusted dealers. I also expect that if you are a person that thinks they may have a fake chip that you should contact the people you got it from and talk with them about it. In an ideal world OzXodus would set up a way for you to check the authenticity without releasing minor design specs. such as a registration number or something. I am not saying that it was a bad idea to tell people that there are fake chips out there what I am saying is that it was a bad idea to tell the cloners what they did wrong so they don't even have to spend their own time and money to figure out what gives their fakes away. All I am saying is that Team OzXenium could have figured out a more discrete way of dealing with the fakes so as not to do the cloner's work for them...at least then they would stay a step ahead of the cloners.
Post by: ofx210p on April 05, 2004, 10:22:00 PM
Post by: Master-Chief on April 06, 2004, 05:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (LepPpeR @ Apr 5 2004, 09:58 PM) |
| I believe he thinks that by showing what is different it allows the cloners to perfect their errors and make an exact replica of the Legitimate Xenium. |
Yes, I understand that. The problem is that the cloners will NEVER have a perfect chip. Its impossible. It will NEVER perform the SAME way. And once someone figures out that their chip is a clone, the site that the chip was ordered from will NOT get any more business!
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 06, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
| QUOTE (Be Absentminded @ Apr 5 2004, 08:39 PM) |
| After seeing the second batch of clones out I was just wondering why is it the Xenium is Faked/Cloned so damn much? I haven't seen a SmartXX, X-Bit or anything else for that matter cloned yet. Was something about the design leaked or is it just such a popular chip everyone wants to clone it? I just wanted to know cause it seems very strange to me that it's the only 4th gen chip that's been faked/cloned. -Jameson |
Then you aren't paying enough attention. We exposed 4 shops selling and distributing Xecuter Clones back in Dec. Granted.. they were 4th gen.. but it was XS that determined that the 4th gen chips.. were 4th gen. If we had said they were 3rd genb chips.. then they'd be in the same chart.
Why is it cloned? It's popular.. and a security issue made it easier than the competition at the moment. We fully expect other 4th Gen Chips to be cloned shortly. The SmartXX fake rumours are still circulating.
Since Xecuter was targeted before.. it is expected that X3 will also become a target. I imagine though that X3 may be the most difficult xbox chip yet to "clone".
Clone is a poor word. none of the xbox clone chips.. have duplicated the reliability of the originals.
Post by: Be Absentminded on April 06, 2004, 05:07:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Why is it cloned? It's popular.. and a security issue made it easier than the competition at the moment |
Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. I know that there have been previous "clones" I just found it odd that the Xenium had been "cloned" and the SmartXX had not eventhough they were released only about a month apart from eachother.
-Jameson
Post by: marksu on April 07, 2004, 01:00:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| if you look at what time the two topics got started you will notice that I got mine up first although we were probably typing them at the same time |
You are right about the date, but I did not tell you this to be mean.
| QUOTE |
| so it's no big deal to me if you don't feel that it you need to talk with the other guy about this |
Do not know why you think I don't like to tak to you. Just ment that it it easier to have the coversarion in one thread.
| QUOTE |
| ...but I do understand and I will try to adhere to your request. |
Thanks
Post by: Exobex on April 07, 2004, 01:14:00 AM
| QUOTE (eXOBeX (ozXodus forums) @ Apr 07, 2004 11:03 am) |
| I think ozXodus are making a mistake by highlighting all the differences between the fakes and the originals, in one go. It gives the cloners a chance to fix all their mistakes quickly. Better to do it in stages. For example:- 1 ) ozXodus report the "capital X" and "different LED" mistakes 2 ) cloners fix this, missing all the other bits they screwed up on 3 ) ozXodus now point out "different switch" and "white dots on board" 4 ) cloners need to rework boards again, fixing these changes 5 ) ozXodus point out "grid differences near LPC" 6 ) cloners yet again have to rework and manufacture new boards 7 ) ozXodus point out "font differences" and "three dots near transistor" 8 ) more boards scrapped, more rework, more manufacturing 9 ) ozXodus point out "grid differences near edge bus" and "top solder pads" 10) cloners bin yet another lot of boards, fix and manufacture a new batch 11) to be continued... The above method gives people plenty of things to look out for as each clone revision is released, without letting the cloners fix everything in one go. They're forever fixing mistakes, binning perfectly good (but not identical) PCBs and getting new ones designed and manufactured, all of which takes time, costs money and reduces the profitability of cloning the Xenium. One other suggestion though - how about a list (a locked topic on these forums would be an ideal location) of manufacturer date-codes used on genuine Xeniums (and maybe the fakes as well, so we can keep an eye out). For example, my Xenium batch (genuine, from Divineo) have a date code of 0323 on the flash. There's probably one on the CPLD as well, but there's a whole load of stuff printed there that means nothing to me! |
Post by: Master-Chief on April 07, 2004, 04:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (Cavalierz24 @ Apr 7 2004, 06:27 AM) |
| Thank you...that's exactly what I am trying to say and I got flamed and called dumb and all I was trying to say is that it isn't good for business to help out the guys that are trying to undermine your business. |
You just don't understand do you...?
When you browse through these forums, people are all saying my Xenium doesn't work and blah blah. Then the FIRST question to come to mind is, "Do I have a fake"? How are they supposed to know if they have a fake if they don't have the resources/guides to find out? Is this starting to make sense to you or am I going a little too fast?
Also, do you see this 10 PAGE THREAD?
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=189861
These people saw the guides to see if they have a FAKE XENIUM and they CAN get their money back due to Internet FRAUD! If those diagrams/guides weren't out so you could determine whether you have a fake Xenium or not, people would have gotten ripped off and had a FAKE XENIUM that doesn't even work for a mere $45.
Post by: Exobex on April 07, 2004, 04:56:00 AM
| QUOTE (Master-Chief @ Apr 7 2004, 12:35 PM) |
| You just don't understand do you...? When you browse through these forums, people are all saying my Xenium doesn't work and blah blah. Then the FIRST question to come to mind is, "Do I have a fake"? How are they supposed to know if they have a fake if they don't have the resources/guides to find out? Is this starting to make sense to you or am I going a little too fast? Also, do you see this 10 PAGE THREAD? http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=189861 These people saw the guides to see if they have a FAKE XENIUM and they CAN get their money back due to Internet FRAUD! If those diagrams/guides weren't out so you could determine whether you have a fake Xenium or not, people would have gotten ripped off and had a FAKE XENIUM that doesn't even work for a mere $45. |
But they didn't need to post it all at once though, did they? Pointing out six differences when two obvious ones would suffice means the cloners can fix them all in one hit. Announcing only two means the cloners only fix two differences. Once the new boards hit the streets you point out another two differences, which means the cloners have to scrap and remanufacture again. Then another two, then another two, and so on.
So far around a dozen differences have been pointed out in just two releases. The next Xenium clone (version 3) will be much harder to spot. Giving out the differences bit by bit would have meant they'd be up to version 7 or 8 by now. And getting really pissed off about it, too!
Post by: Master-Chief on April 07, 2004, 06:52:00 AM
| QUOTE (Exobex @ Apr 7 2004, 08:56 AM) |
| But they didn't need to post it all at once though, did they? Pointing out six differences when two obvious ones would suffice means the cloners can fix them all in one hit. Announcing only two means the cloners only fix two differences. Once the new boards hit the streets you point out another two differences, which means the cloners have to scrap and remanufacture again. Then another two, then another two, and so on. So far around a dozen differences have been pointed out in just two releases. The next Xenium clone (version 3) will be much harder to spot. Giving out the differences bit by bit would have meant they'd be up to version 7 or 8 by now. And getting really pissed off about it, too! |
Good point, but the fact of NOT having diagram comparisons at all like Cavalierz stated, is a BAD idea!
Post by: marksu on April 07, 2004, 11:41:00 PM
Heh that is ment as a joke! lol
Clone makers might not have thought they would have got such large negative publicity of their clone. Might have thought ppl dont care that mutch that is is not 100% same looking as long it is working. Well as it happened the clone is not working wery well, therefore they try to make is look more as a exact copy of original xenium to confuse customers.
I think it is Ozxodus way of saying this is not a clone cause of the many detailed differences (and also the bad quality aspect). That is why I presume Ozxodus wanted intensionally to publish many deatiled differences between clone and the original Xenium.
To come to the point when clone is to similar to original to detect it to be clone might be still far away. There is pretty mutch allways some differences that Ozxodus can point out how to detect a clone.
As I preious stated:
If clones still would reach the point to be to similar Ozxodus could make new changes to the outlook and cloners would need to start from the beginning.
Post by: seedyrom2003 on April 07, 2004, 11:49:00 PM
PLZ DON'T LIST THE SELLER IN A PRO-CLONE POST.
Post by: marksu on April 07, 2004, 11:55:00 PM
There is a nice thread at Ozxodus forum of a succestion on how to make Ozxodus mod easily detected to be clone or original.
Now your turn to reply
.Post by: marksu on April 08, 2004, 12:08:00 AM
| QUOTE (seedyrom2003 @ Apr 8 2004, 08:49 AM) |
| Trying to get back on topic.. I Just bought a batch of clones from robotpig. I took a risk buying them knowing they were.. At $29 a piece they dont cost me $60 each .. people locally dont care they are clones.. and as long as they work.. AND LIKE MOST AMERICANS ... THEY WANT IT CHEAP!!! not saying for how long.. then whats the big deal? You get what you pay for.. but sellers FAKING off clones as originals is wrong.. Im not going all PRO on clones since I do own 3 originals myself but.. whats the big deal.. the only one getting taken is OzXodus because they are loosing business in the market. All the rumors got people scared.. Especially if the seller of the chip has a good reputation. I hand it to robotpig cause he states that he does sell clones up front.. and until i see a failure in one of the clones as you should all do first hand ... then complain and bitch about how they are ruining the scene.. thats my 2 cents. |
Well I think you are not entitled to any Xenium support on xbox scene after that comment!
I don't care if you have 3 original xenium or not, but buying intensionaly clones and seling them is not supporting xbox scene.
This kind of clone promotion is not needed in this forum!
Hopefully HSDEMONZ gives his comment on this one!
Post by: seedyrom2003 on April 08, 2004, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: HSDEMONZ on April 08, 2004, 02:01:00 PM
As of now.. The clone talk ends. People who needs help in determining if their chip is a fake.. should read the pinned topics.
I know the mods tire of this nonsense.. as do I.
Discuss the fakes.. and your opinions on it and if it hurts the consumer.. helps/hurts the scene elsewhere.
We've already taken the standpoint.. that CLONES hurt the scene over-all. Other sites and devs in the scene have taken a similar standpoint.. including Maxconsole.com.