Post by: cubistproject on April 26, 2005, 08:24:00 PM
I've found a few definite differences between the clones I've seen and the original. I'll be grabbing clones from every manufacterer I meet to grab pics and test thier functionality eventually.
If you get a clone, I'd really appreciate recieving a scan of it, or the actual chip - preferably the later, so I can just do one big chart of comparison, along with tests of the functionality of all of the chips.
If you want to mail me a suspected clone, just PM me, and I'll send you all necessary info.
I'll ask that you don't slander any distributors as they may themselves not know that they're stocking clones, and don't state that a distributor IS stocking a clone unless you've got a scan and a serious claim to back it up!
So, with that, here is the first clone that I'll be examining. Included also is a scan of an original (purchased from Divineo) for comparison.
The first clone came packed with all accessories that the original was and is of quite high quality. This one came unbranded.
(IMG:http://www.cubistchips.com/webpics/Duox2ident/clone1.jpg)
After seeing the accessories and quality, we'll move on to examine it next to an original.
(IMG:http://www.cubistchips.com/webpics/Duox2ident/clonecomparetop.jpg)
Color: You may note that the original is much lighter in color.
Black IC: The black, 3 pronged IC to the right of the Dip Switch is labeled differently on our two boards. On the original, it is labeled '2TY' (All capitals). On our clone is 'p2A' or 'p2AC'; it's hard to make out.
1) Solder Pads: As we can see, all solder pads on the original chip are gold. On the clone, all of the solder pads are silver colored.
2) LPC Holes: The original chip has gold LPC holes, and the clone has silver. (Note: I desoldered a half installed pinheader on the original, because I wanted comparable scans before I installed this, so there are a 3 solder covered LPC holes next to D0 on the original)
3) Stamped Text: On the original, the D0 and BT labels are stamped in yellow ink. On the clone, they are in white ink.
4) Square Stamped Hole: The hole in the clone has been stamped with quite square edges, where as the original has smoother stamping. Without an original, it may be hard to identify the chip by this alone.
5) Square Edge Cutout: Similar to above, this cutout seems much less round than on the original chip. In person, it looks nearly square, with some overhang.
6) Switch Variations: There are a few viariations on the switch. On our clone, there is no labels for bank 1/2. On the original, one is labeled 0 and one is labeled N. On the recessed part of the actual switch, there is a recessed circle on the original, and a rectacular recession on the clone. These are visible in the pictures.
On to the backside!
(IMG:http://www.cubistchips.com/webpics/Duox2ident/clonecomparebottom.jpg)
The one really major difference is in the switch here.
7) Switch Bottom: The original chip has 3 circular cutouts exposing metal beneath. The clone has one square cut out of each corner, and has a long strip cutout in the middle, with a cut out int the metal underneath, as well, giving the appearance of two cutouts. The cutouts are difficult to see in the picture, but can still be made out.
I have two more DuoX2 clones coming. They should be here shortly, so I'll post pictures and descriptions of them both too.
Cheers!
-Jay
This post has been edited by cubistproject: Apr 27 2005, 03:30 AM
Post by: otherguy on April 26, 2005, 08:30:00 PM
CODE
(http:// and ) tags
not <img> and </img> html doesn't work
Post by: cubistproject on April 26, 2005, 08:35:00 PM
I've never been a big forum user - this is a first for me.
Post by: otherguy on April 26, 2005, 08:36:00 PM
how does this one hold up (once installed) in comparrison to the real one?
Post by: cubistproject on April 26, 2005, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: cubistproject on April 26, 2005, 09:27:00 PM
I'd like to flash it with Flashbios as I don't have a white one here... Just to see if the problem is with the Clones or installers afterall...
Post by: cubistproject on April 29, 2005, 11:05:00 AM
Here is another identified by Novakpower. The header came pre-installed. It had an X2 bios on bank 0 and Bleeped and shut off on bank 1 on a v1.0 xbox. The flashrom is labeled M29F080A Singapore.
This post has been edited by cubistproject: Apr 29 2005, 06:05 PM
Post by: cubistproject on April 29, 2005, 11:10:00 AM
gold solder points,
Proper bioses (Flashbios and Cromwell on the whites).
Different flashbios then I've seen. Lebeled M29F080A, but they don't say singapore. They say 7on1 xm4 4034.
Xilinx CPLD.
Non labeled switch, similar bottom to the whites in sovakpowers, but different top/no labels.
Header not installed - it's actually packaged seperately, which is unusual.
Different stamping then I've seen too. It's almost like an enamel/car paint. Won't easily scratch off...
Pictures will come later.
Post by: cubistproject on April 29, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
The came packaged a little odly - the header pin came sealed seperately from the chip. There are 5 to a sheet. Came pretty much standard, other than that. Ie) black guard. Might be worth noting that they were put into the bag with the paint still wet on the 'amd'/'duox2' logos, as some of them have smeared in the packaging. They don't contain an AMD flashrom, so I'm not a fan of the AMD stamp.
(IMG:http://www.cubistchips.com/webpics/Duox2ident/clones2top.jpg)
These look pretty good to me. Different flashroms than I've seen... They were covered in black paint and then stamped with an enamel like substance. Underneath the blank paint I could read 'M29F080A' 9on1 on the white one and 7on1 on the blue one. No Singapore on these ones, unlike the above two clones. There was also a bird or a T - I couldn't make it out, and scraping off the AMD also removed the logo...
1) The first thing that I noticed is that the DuoX2 logo is both etched AND stamped, unual on the blue chips. I'm not sure if the original whites are stamped or not.
2) The pads and LPC holes are much more gold than on the first clone looked at. They're still not that really really gold gold tho.
3) White BT/D0 stamps on the clone, yellow on the original. I don't know about the whites... Wish I had one right now...
4/5) Pretty jagged cuts on the clones.
6) Rectangular recession on the switch on clones. Circular recession on the original. Also, these clones do not have labels on the switch.
(IMG:http://www.cubistchips.com/webpics/Duox2ident/clones2bottom.jpg)
7) Unique switch bottom again. Similar to Novakpower's clone, but without the '4C'. Six dots puched out. Silver Metal underneath. It is also worth noting that the switch bottoms are recessed quite a bit from the bottom of the chip. They don't line up flush with the PCB. The original does flushly line up, and infact, the hole exposing the switch bottom is unnecessary with this design.
I'll test the functionality of these later. Some people seem to be having problems flashing these, so maybe I can find a solution.
Post by: cubistproject on April 29, 2005, 11:00:00 PM
QUOTE
Flash = 0x20f1,"ST M29F080 series",0x100000
There it is!
That will be helpful.
It was the ST logo that is on the last two clones looked at.
This will be needed to flash the chips.
Post by: HackDaBox on April 30, 2005, 02:43:00 AM
That flash is in eurasia as standard so adding that will do no good for clones that won't flash !
HackDaBox !
Post by: hippo on April 30, 2005, 08:18:00 AM
Post by: HackDaBox on April 30, 2005, 08:24:00 AM
Well what i mean is when you download eurasia it allready has that flash built in.
Post by: elserpiente on May 02, 2005, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: FoxRacR17 on June 03, 2005, 12:37:00 AM
Post by: Creztor on June 03, 2005, 01:30:00 AM
QUOTE(FoxRacR17 @ Jun 3 2005, 07:48 AM)
Hello there. I have just bought 2 white duoX 2 for the first time and i'm not sure if they are clones or not. I bought them off of appleguru in the bst forum. So far everything leads me to believe they are clones: They have silver holes, that little thing says "t2A", the back of the switch has 6 holes. The only thing that makes me doubt it is that it looks like it has a genuine flashrom amd chip on it, the code as i read it on the chip says "AM29F080B" I cant take any pics of them because my digital camera is in another state right now :\ If it has a genuine amd chip does that make it a genuine duox2 white chip? Thanks in advance. Maybe if you put up some more comparisons of a original white chip against a clone white chip.
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: FoxRacR17 on June 03, 2005, 01:39:00 AM
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Ok, thank you very much for the reply. If this is a clone it is a very very convincing clone.
Edit: Question, why are the clones unable to be flashed with the latest xecuter bios? (just out of curiosity)
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: Creztor on June 03, 2005, 01:57:00 AM
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No idea why, just do it and you will know if its a clone or not. If it flashes fine you dont have a clone
It it flashes and stops 30% through flashing the chip, its a clone. Problem solved
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: appleguru on June 03, 2005, 03:00:00 AM
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Post by: FoxRacR17 on June 03, 2005, 01:39:00 AM
Edit: Question, why are the clones unable to be flashed with the latest xecuter bios? (just out of curiosity)
Post by: Creztor on June 03, 2005, 01:57:00 AM
It it flashes and stops 30% through flashing the chip, its a clone. Problem solved
Post by: appleguru on June 03, 2005, 03:00:00 AM
QUOTE(Creztor @ Jun 3 2005, 04:08 AM)
No idea why, just do it and you will know if its a clone or not. If it flashes fine you dont have a clone It it flashes and stops 30% through flashing the chip, its a clone. Problem solved
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: Chancer on June 03, 2005, 06:11:00 AM
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Well I have news for you. Some of the Blue genuine ones do this when flashing through evox (not through any other flash app)
Before you say it, They are NOT clones and yes I do know the difference and I also know my supplier personally.
Tested on 2 out of a batch. will try some more when I have time
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: HackDaBox on June 03, 2005, 06:45:00 AM
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Hippo or anyone else that knows a hell of alot about flashing (techs only) ,
OK. Urm i don't understand .. i mean i program PIC chips and the like all the time , i understand the gates and the software and eeprom etc. But how can one 512k BIOS ( which is just 0's and 1's ) flash ok (X2 4981) for example but a new bios not flash ( which is also 0's and 1's ).
Clock cycles and timing would be down to cpld code problems not SST chip contents. Unable to flash in evox should not only happen with certain bioses ( in my opinion anyway )
I have had a few too many right now so i will quit rambling any further untill tomorrow !
Hack !
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: hippo on June 03, 2005, 08:22:00 AM
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Ya know everyone's modchip is sort of secret you would have to ask them what they have in mind.
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: novakpower on June 10, 2005, 06:54:00 PM
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Here's a bump for those that may have missed this. The Duo X2 lite should hopefully take care of the cloners.
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: spanner_crab on June 24, 2005, 01:17:00 AM
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Just out of interest I believe that I have a genuine (or very, very, very good clone) with the same can't-flash-me (Write Protected 0x09, 0x00) errors.
It looks as if they are genuine because:
Has XILINX FPGA
Has what appears to be genuine AMD Flash chip
Switch is flush with 3 x holes underside
Gold Pads & Gold Logo
I purchased 2 x Duox2 Cromwell edition from mod-chip.com - results:
Chip #1:
Can't flash using Eurasia or Flashbios 3.0.3 - on 1.6 Xbox using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Read Only?? manuf 0x09 device 0x00"
Can't flash using Eurasia or Flashbios 3.0.3 - on 1.4 Xbox using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Read Only?? manuf 0x09 device 0x00"
Can't flash using hotswap on 1.6 or 1.4 with EvolutionX latest (Slayer or X-Wizard disc) - using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Flash is protected"
Chip #2:
Chip works fine in all above scenarios ...
So I'm wondering if there might be either:
a) an inherent programming fault in the FPGA/CPLD
-OR-
an inherent design problem with the board itself where one or more signals aren't fed to the chip ...
-OR-
c) something completely different
Just my 2c
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: ze_olc on June 24, 2005, 01:22:00 AM
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interesting feedback but you should post a picture...
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: HackDaBox on June 24, 2005, 04:49:00 AM
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All it takes is one bad (cold) joint on the female headerpin that is soldered directly to the duox2 and this would cause this condition !
HackDaBox !
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: novakpower on June 24, 2005, 07:24:00 PM
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I agree with Hack, I had a bad lpc pin on an Alladin that was keeping it from flashing.
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: otherguy on July 04, 2005, 08:24:00 AM
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It it flashes and stops 30% through flashing the chip, its a clone. Problem solved Post by: Chancer on June 03, 2005, 06:11:00 AM
QUOTE
just do it and you will know if its a clone or not.
Well I have news for you. Some of the Blue genuine ones do this when flashing through evox (not through any other flash app)
Before you say it, They are NOT clones and yes I do know the difference and I also know my supplier personally.
Tested on 2 out of a batch. will try some more when I have time
Post by: HackDaBox on June 03, 2005, 06:45:00 AM
Hippo or anyone else that knows a hell of alot about flashing (techs only) ,
OK. Urm i don't understand .. i mean i program PIC chips and the like all the time , i understand the gates and the software and eeprom etc. But how can one 512k BIOS ( which is just 0's and 1's ) flash ok (X2 4981) for example but a new bios not flash ( which is also 0's and 1's ).
Clock cycles and timing would be down to cpld code problems not SST chip contents. Unable to flash in evox should not only happen with certain bioses ( in my opinion anyway )
I have had a few too many right now so i will quit rambling any further untill tomorrow !
Hack !
Post by: hippo on June 03, 2005, 08:22:00 AM
Post by: novakpower on June 10, 2005, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: spanner_crab on June 24, 2005, 01:17:00 AM
It looks as if they are genuine because:
Has XILINX FPGA
Has what appears to be genuine AMD Flash chip
Switch is flush with 3 x holes underside
Gold Pads & Gold Logo
I purchased 2 x Duox2 Cromwell edition from mod-chip.com - results:
Chip #1:
Can't flash using Eurasia or Flashbios 3.0.3 - on 1.6 Xbox using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Read Only?? manuf 0x09 device 0x00"
Can't flash using Eurasia or Flashbios 3.0.3 - on 1.4 Xbox using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Read Only?? manuf 0x09 device 0x00"
Can't flash using hotswap on 1.6 or 1.4 with EvolutionX latest (Slayer or X-Wizard disc) - using either M8 or M8_1.6 BIOS - error is "Flash is protected"
Chip #2:
Chip works fine in all above scenarios ...
So I'm wondering if there might be either:
a) an inherent programming fault in the FPGA/CPLD
-OR-
an inherent design problem with the board itself where one or more signals aren't fed to the chip ...-OR-
c) something completely different
Just my 2c
Post by: ze_olc on June 24, 2005, 01:22:00 AM
Post by: HackDaBox on June 24, 2005, 04:49:00 AM
All it takes is one bad (cold) joint on the female headerpin that is soldered directly to the duox2 and this would cause this condition !
HackDaBox !
Post by: novakpower on June 24, 2005, 07:24:00 PM
Post by: otherguy on July 04, 2005, 08:24:00 AM
QUOTE(knives77 @ Jul 4 2005, 09:49 AM)
2 Clones DuoX2 killing 2 Xbox, 1 v1.4 and 1 v1.6 
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: hippo on July 04, 2005, 11:09:00 AM
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I've noticed any clone talk at all in the other forum sections gets a thread closed.
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: Chancer on July 04, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
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Threads promoting clone chips are closed. This thread appears to be warning people how to identify a clone rather than promoting sale and distribution of Clones.
If you have a specific issue with this thread you can use the report button and state what and I will look at it for you
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Title: Duox2 Clone Identification
Post by: hippo on July 04, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
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No problems when put under that light except it was started by a clone dealer so it makes it a tad confusing if it's to enlighten or promote. I wouldn't report the thread though it's pretty harmless.
Also that doux 3 scares the hell right out of me. Do you know how much more expensive it is to make? Holy cow.
Post by: hippo on July 04, 2005, 11:09:00 AM
Post by: Chancer on July 04, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
QUOTE
I've noticed any clone talk at all in the other forum sections gets a thread closed.
Threads promoting clone chips are closed. This thread appears to be warning people how to identify a clone rather than promoting sale and distribution of Clones.
If you have a specific issue with this thread you can use the report button and state what and I will look at it for you
Post by: hippo on July 04, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
Also that doux 3 scares the hell right out of me. Do you know how much more expensive it is to make? Holy cow.