Post by: minibike on September 04, 2010, 03:29:00 AM
I have a Xbox V1.4 with a AppleX chip, a 120Gb HDD, the Evo X setup, an XBMC latest version.
I also have a CRT as tv with RGB scart input.
My xbox is now connected through RCA.
But since RGB is way better than RCA i want to make a RGB scart for higher quality gaming and movies.
I have 3 RCA xbox cable's so i can cut one of the cables to make a RGB scart.
But i don't know how to make a RGB scart.
Is there a tut like "RCA to RGB scart"?
Or a pinout for the cable?
I will rather use the cable to cut than i am soldering on the motherbord.
Greetings Martijn
Post by: Heimdall on September 04, 2010, 04:18:00 AM
Post by: minibike on September 05, 2010, 02:42:00 AM
QUOTE(Heimdall @ Sep 4 2010, 12:18 PM) 
There's an AVIP pin-out in this thread. and a similar pinout for SCART connectors here. However, I doubt that your plan will work, because the Xbox composite (RCA) cable probably doesn't have the RGB cores present, just to save money. You can check by opening up the connector and comparing the cores present with the AVIP picture.
Thanks for your answer.
If you look into the A/V plug on the composite cable of the xbox, all the pins are there.
So i guess that you can connect the cables to the other side of the plug too.
I found an other site with some diagrams :
xbox RGB scart
Is this website good enough to make a RGB scart?
And in what categorie does RGB scart come?
In Standard A/V, Advanced A/V, or more close to HD A/V ?
Post by: Heimdall on September 05, 2010, 02:50:00 AM
The page you linked to looks good, and seems to have saved you the trouble of matching the Xbox AVIP pinouts to the SCART ones from Wikipedia, but you should check yourself using the two pages I linked you to.
RGB SCART is usually 720p.
Are you sure your TV supports RGB over SCART? It's worth checking.
Post by: fallenangle on September 05, 2010, 06:44:00 AM
So the first thing to ask, hoping this isn't going to sound stupid, is why do actually want to make a RGB SCART cable for your Xbox? Unless it's some kind of DIY project you just fancy tryng it doesn't make a lot of sense.
You should still be able to get proper purposed designed Xbox RGB SCART cables for peanuts off eBay. Depending where you are it might cost you a bit more to import. But at a basic price of typically < GB £10 (US $15) why even consider faffing about splicing together a standard Xbox AV cable with a SCART cable or plug.
Also, whilst it is possible to get almost anything to running through a fully wired SCART cable with suitable converters and adapters, basic RGB via SCART is either 576i/50Hz or 480i/60Hz. Very, very few CRTs or any other type of TV support(ed) progressive scan via SCART - I've only ever read of one that did. In fact in the UK/EU very few CRT TVs supported progressive scan by any means, Component or VGA..
Post by: minibike on September 05, 2010, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Heimdall @ Sep 5 2010, 10:50 PM)
Yes, I'd expect you to be able to solder your own cables to an existing connector, but there's only one way to find out - open up the connector.
The page you linked to looks good, and seems to have saved you the trouble of matching the Xbox AVIP pinouts to the SCART ones from Wikipedia, but you should check yourself using the two pages I linked you to.
RGB SCART is usually 720p.
Are you sure your TV supports RGB over SCART? It's worth checking.
I am totally sure that my TV supports RGB over Scart.
so that won't be the problem.
QUOTE(fallenangle @ Sep 5 2010, 02:44 PM)
Maybe I've badly misunderstood something here, I hope not.
So the first thing to ask, hoping this isn't going to sound stupid, is why do actually want to make a RGB SCART cable for your Xbox? Unless it's some kind of DIY project you just fancy tryng it doesn't make a lot of sense.
You should still be able to get proper purposed designed Xbox RGB SCART cables for peanuts off eBay. Depending where you are it might cost you a bit more to import. But at a basic price of typically < GB £10 (US $15) why even consider faffing about splicing together a standard Xbox AV cable with a SCART cable or plug.
Also, whilst it is possible to get almost anything to running through a fully wired SCART cable with suitable converters and adapters, basic RGB via SCART is either 576i/50Hz or 480i/60Hz. Very, very few CRTs or any other type of TV support(ed) progressive scan via SCART - I've only ever read of one that did. In fact in the UK/EU very few CRT TVs supported progressive scan by any means, Component or VGA..
I want to make this because i like to make it my own.
I made pretty much already, so i thought that a RGB scart was possible to make too.
I have all the parts i need in my house, so why buy things if you can make it out of stuff you have laying around. And for the xbox cable that i have to cut, i have 3 cables and 1 xbox.
And for the resolution.
I am not pretty sure that my tv supports progressive scan, but i don't know exactly if Digital scan is the same. Because my tv does have Digital scan.
And if it can't handle progressive scan, 576i is a lot better that composite 480i right?
And else, 480i/60hz is still a lot better than 480i on composite for a far i know.
But if i am not right correct me please.
And sorry for m bad english
I am from The Netherlands so English isn't my best language
Post by: fallenangle on February 03, 2020, 05:15:00 AM
That pinout web site and the links from it are what I've been using for a similar Dreamcast based project. I've not seen or heard from others about anything wrong with the info there. But mistakes can be made so double check somewhere else if you can.
I still think you're making a rod for your own back. I've looked at my (5) official MS AV leads and although the Xbox connector has all the pins I'm not convinced you'll find it fully wired. Even just working out which wire is which (don't rely on consistent colour coding) will be a real task.
Chances you'll have to get into the plug itself and hope that the solder points are accessable. You'll need some fine soldering skills so good luck with that and everything else.
I'll be very interested to hear how your project goes.
As regards the resolution: RGB 576i/50Hz sounds like it should be better than RGB 480i/60Hz but in practice the extra lines of resolution are not the deciding factor in picture quality. The faster 60Hz refresh rate always gives a noticeably sharper, flicker free picture than 50Hz.
But you are right RGB 480i/576i will give you noticeably better picture quality than the equivalent Composite 480i/576i. The degree of improvement you see can vary from TV to TV so don't expect to be blown away.
As I said your CRT is very unlikely to have any progressive scan option at all. The "Digital Scan" feature you mentioned could be reference to the DNR (digital noise reduction) or the scan modulation found on many decent late model CRTs. Whether these image enhancement features actually improve picture quality is moot but It is certainly not progressive scan.
However, it might be another manufacturers version of JVC's D.I.S.T (digital image scaling technology) or Sony's DRC (digital reality creation) found on their 100Hz CRTs.
These things aren't progressive scan either. But if it is some equivalent to those with RGB via SCART you could be getting as close to progressive scan image quality as an interlaced source is normally ever going to be.
This post has been edited by fallenangle: Yesterday, 01:18 PM
Post by: Heimdall on September 06, 2010, 06:57:00 AM
QUOTE(fallenangle @ Sep 6 2010, 01:15 PM)
As regards the resolution: RGB 576i/50Hz sounds like it should be better than RGB 480i/60Hz but in practice the extra lines of resolution are not the deciding factor in picture quality. The faster 60Hz refresh rate always gives a noticeably sharper, flicker free picture than 50Hz.
Post by: fallenangle on February 03, 2020, 10:50:00 AM
The improvement in PQ you get using 480i/60Hz as opposed to 576i/50Hz is usually very obvious. Two generations of UK import gamers will support me in that claim too. PAL50, even when optimised, never looks as sharp or even as smooth as NTSC or PAL60.
The very good reason for this is that 50Hz flicker compromises the PQ. In isolation you don't notice it but in direct comparison you do; 480i/60Hz whether via Composite, S-Video or RGB SCART simply looks better despite its lower resolution.
BTW adjusting the flicker filter settings in the softmod Xbox dash can improve PQ a great deal when you're not using Component or other prog scan connection methods.
Post by: fallenangle on February 03, 2020, 10:50:00 AM
The improvement in PQ you get using 480i/60Hz as opposed to 576i/50Hz is usually very obvious. Two generations of UK import gamers will support me in that claim too. PAL50, even when optimised, never looks as sharp or even as smooth as NTSC or PAL60.
The very good reason for this is that 50Hz flicker compromises the PQ. In isolation you don't notice it but in direct comparison you do; 480i/60Hz whether via Composite, S-Video or RGB SCART simply looks better despite its lower resolution.
BTW adjusting the flicker filter settings in the softmod Xbox dash can improve PQ a great deal when you're not using Component or other prog scan connection methods.
Post by: Red_Breast on October 08, 2010, 10:27:00 AM
A standard RGB SCART's highest resolution is 576 and interlaced only.
However not all companies care about standards right?
From wikipedia:-
"SCART cannot officially carry non-RGB (e.g. YPbPr) component video signals, which are gaining ground as an improvement over S-Video in markets where SCART is not used. However, some manufacturers of set-top-boxes and DVD players are known to provide optional (menu-selectable), non-standard YPbPr output through the pins that are officially reserved for RGB color components."
Years ago I got an official RGB SCART cable. I don't know how common or not they are these days on places like EBAy. It can be annoying if you have to go 2nd hand. Some turn out to not be fully wired. It's been my experience that it's best to just go for the cheapest though and one that is a few quid / euros more does not mean it will be better quality.
Also as far as the XBox and RGB goes, in the form of RGB SCART or VGA (RGBHV), I was not happy with the results.
I found the picture produced using RGB SCART cables was always too dark testing it with 1.3 and 1.4 Xboxen. I once tested with a Playstation 2 though and found that RGB SCART was a huge improvement over composite and s-video.
At the same time I found that using a Frozen cable (Xbox VGA) always produced a picture that was too bright. Before I had a TV with component sockets I would use a component cable with a component to VGA adaptor as my previous TV was a standard-def CRT widescreen Grundig 100/120 Hz with a VGA socket. I still use the adaptor when I use my Xbox in the bedroom or at work connected to an old CRT PC monitor.
Post by: fallenangle on October 08, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
I've never not had to make adjustments, some quite major, when swapping between, for instance Component and RGB SCART. Consoles signal output strength levels may vary and there are also differences in individual leads themselves.
RGB SCART cables may have a variety of different capacitors fitted on the colour channels. Most SCART wiring diagrams show 150uF as the norm for but I've taken enough console SCART plugs (official and others) apart to know that they can feature anything from 100uF - 250uF. Smoothing capacitors and resistors of various values are also often used. There's also the effects of powered AV switchers which may amplify signals too.
Lets not forget the games either; with RGB via SCART some can be rendered unplayable if you use any in-game brightness or contrast setting recommendations.
In short you should be adjusting the TV/monitor for best PQ whenever you change any element in your set up and ideally whenever you start a new game.
Post by: Red_Breast on October 10, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(fallenangle @ Oct 9 2010, 12:00 AM)
People seem to assume that when you swap to a new connection type the output is going to be automatically adjusted to match the contrast, brightness, colour level of their previous set up.
If that was directed at me regarding what I said about RGB SCART - too dark - and VGA - too bright - then let's just say I'm not one of those that assumes it will all adjust automatically.
I found that by making the adjustments, for example if it's too dark then use brightness and contrast, would effect the picture in other undesirable ways.
I seem to remember the picture that I personally preferred the most was s-video for the time I used a Xbox before it became possible to convert from PAL to NTSC. I then started using component to VGA adaptors generally and those that I tried would keep the colours sharp, unlike a straight VGA connection. The 360 with the official VGA cable has this problem, the colours would look washed out, and it's the reason why Microsoft included a software control for colour reference levels in one of their dashboard updates.
I only give my experience of experimenting with cables here and the previous post. I don't understand electronics that much and what you said about capacitors is news to me. Thanks. I would of hoped that as I had the official Xbox RGB SCART cable then that would be OK but maybe not?
I seem to recall, could be wrong, that Xbox games never had a brightness control within the actual game's menu. It annoyed me as back then (2001-02) I would play FPS games on PC (I only got a Xbox for Halo and to this day only have about 8 Xbox games in total) a lot which had brightness options in the game menus. I've noticed that 360 games have it as well.
Thanks again for the info regarding capacitors. As you said so many things can affect the picture. It's one of the reasons why I stay away from AV switchers even though my LCD only has one set of component sockets and I could do with at least 3.
Post by: fallenangle on October 11, 2010, 05:56:00 AM
It's just that I've been on AV forums where people have complained about swapping to RGB via SCART cables and not liking the PQ, apparently not realising that, as I said, quite significant setting adjustments often will need to be made from what they used before. These settings can be quite unsuitable for say terrestial analogue TV viewing, a VCR connected by Composite leads or DVD by Component or whatever.
RGB via SCART seems it can simply be too much to handle for some TV's native contrast range, if that is the right term.. You adjust for the shadows and the highlights are burnt out or adjust for the highlights and the shadow detail is completely lost. Modern TVs may have auto or manually selected digital processing to 'equalise' the brightness/contrast which may help with this. But it can make the picture look odd sometimes.
IMHO using official RGB SCART leads is always a good idea as they should give you near best PQ out of the box. But the point I was making was not that there's anything wrong with other leads, they may well produce as good PQ. It's just that the components they use can vary requiring different TV/monitor settings to get the best out of them.
Post by: Red_Breast on October 11, 2010, 09:50:00 AM
Thanks.