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OG Xbox Forums => Hardware Forums => Xbox Audio/Video Technical => Topic started by: rob_hellfire on April 21, 2005, 09:32:00 AM

Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 21, 2005, 09:32:00 AM
I want to get a projector to project on to my wall (or a screen hanging on my wall) to save space in my small room and to get a big ass picture for xbox playing and tv.

Is there any info. available on the scene about starting with all this stuff, which projectors and the quality of them, or any help on the technology behind them to help my little mind understand.

I would also find it unbeleivably useful to get some info. on prices of basic setups and upgrades to the system, eg hdtv cables, different video output methods for the box, stuff like that.

I could probably be able to reach 500 pounds on the projector without my bank manager slapping me smile.gif.
I get the feeling this wouldn't be enough though so need info.

Hopefully won't peev anybody off, searched and got lots of replies about gaming areas, peoples setups and other stuff but no real useful info. on how to do it.

If anybody has a link to anything remotely useful on the subject that'd be great and thanks

Otherwise just tell me i'm lazy and cheap  jester.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Gelantious on April 21, 2005, 10:13:00 AM
http://www.projector...00_sanyo_z3.htm

Two of the best projectors with a "normal" price lvl.
Dont know how much they would cost in pounds but if it was me I would take the Z3.
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Dolfhin on April 21, 2005, 10:15:00 AM
Spend some times reading about DLP, CRT and LCD and buy a nice second hand projector from Ebay, the setup is the easy part the hard part is calibrating the image to look as good as possible.

Expect to spend a lot of time on it if this is your first one.. or hire a profesional to do it.

Start with some links like :
http://www.hometoys....iley/railey.htm
http://www.avforums....hp/t-25293.html
http://www.tomshardw...howto/20041201/ (some cool information about how it works and how you make your own)

and ofcourse :
www.google.com
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: xbox_maister on April 21, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
a projector rocks, if you want a good , but expensive projector then go for the panasonic pt-ae700u my dad got one of them and they just kicks ass playing xbox on biggrin.gif

a good advice is to have a decent sound equipment going with it, for big screens you'l need BIG sound biggrin.gif


xM
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: michaelb on April 21, 2005, 06:01:00 PM
I have a Infocus X1 dlp projector and it fricken rocks. I'm casting a 90" screen right now and the picture quality is terrific. You can get a refurbished one from Tigerdirect for under $600
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 22, 2005, 04:46:00 AM
Cool guys, thanx for useful info esp. dolfhin

Will spend time learning this stuff, always wanted to ask but never thought people would be so useful smile.gif

Any other info. sites, suggestions or even ideas would be cool.


Also quicky, can you project onto a white emulsioned wall or am i best gettng a screen???
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 22, 2005, 05:37:00 AM
Just reading through, is bulb breakage a serious problem cos at 400pounds a pop that's a lot of money.

Anyways looking on ebay at the mo for the projectors mentioned above and some good prices seems to be popping up but need to do so more modchips before i'm ready to take the plunge so better get advertising on the uni intranet

suckers smile.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Dolfhin on April 22, 2005, 10:43:00 AM
QUOTE(rob_hellfire @ Apr 22 2005, 10:52 AM)
Cool guys, thanx for useful info esp. dolfhin
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: minnow on April 22, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
Basics:

Projectors are rated in lumens. Get the highest lumens rating your budget can allow. (1200 lumens should be a minimum.)

Resolution is important. Get the highest native resolution your budget will allow. (1080 x . . . should be a minimum.)

Screens are essential, although walls will do. You can prep a wall to be ultra-flat (no gloss, no bumps), but it makes for an ugly room. Use a screen.

Big screen in a small room does not mean you have to have BIG sound. Just good sound. 5.1 surround is the best an XBOX can do. So that's what you should shoot for.

"Throw" is a factor that most people don't concern themselves with, but it determines how wide the image can get in proportion to how far the screen is from the projector. There are long-throw and short-throw projectors. Long-throws are used in auditoriums typically, while short-throws are used in close-quarters.

Finally, many do-it-yourselfers will complain that the picture quality from a projector is not exactly what they thought it'd be. The primary culprits are light polution (light sources that penetrate into the room and wash out the projected image. . . like street lights, night lights, other televisions in the room).

Darkest room + Best viewing surface + Best projector + Best image source (XBOX) = ecstasy

Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 25, 2005, 08:48:00 AM
thanks for that.

Found out where i'm living next year for uni, got a decent hifi system at the mo. only 4 speakers but has a connector for adding a box so might be tempted.

Already got some blackout curtains as my old room was infront of a street lamp so needed them, probably will need a short throw as no more than 4 metres across the room so would end up with a small picture i'd guess with a long throw projector.

the problem with having the projector mounted in the wrong place effecting the picture (vertically) as gonna fabricate a stand that'l fit down the back of my bed and stick out at predesignated height to allow adjustable height and pitch to make setting up easier.

Also gonna make myself a decent stadn to put the screen onto the wall almost flush to save space and stop air flow making the screen move.

Will i need a hd-cable set for the projector and i'm guessing you can extend these to long distances seems some projectors are ceiling mounted smile.gif  

Still looking for a projector that's be suitable, i thought that 800x600 would suffice but maybe i should look bigger smile.gif.

Mostly been looking at models like:
this one
or this one

make comments if thy're crap, or comment if they're good, i need to get more info smile.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on April 25, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
I dont' know how common it is, but I'd look for one with optical trapazoidal (keystone) adjustments.  Many projectors do keystone compensation by simply turning off a row of pixels.
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: OmegaX on April 25, 2005, 02:02:00 PM
u could try building one for about $300 doesn't look that hard
diy lcd
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 26, 2005, 04:34:00 AM
I would be tempted to do the diy projector if i had a spare lcd monitor but i haven't so don't think i will, its also really bulky and a can't fit that over my head on a stand (read above if confused).

thanks Mr Ed, i wasn't aware of that but i'm trying to avoid using keystone adjustment, thugh getting a projector with it won't hurt, i will be setting the projector at the ideal height hopefully and having an adjustable stand should be sufficient to allow me to direct the projector sufficiently.

Got another 3 mods to do yesterday, so will be ordering some modchips and getting some money by friday, trying to push forward the purchase date for when i can afford this, but also got to visit my sister who's moving to vancouver (from uk) so need to keep at least 800 in rexerve to go see her before xmas.

Gotta ask how much do people charge for mod installs

I've been saying 40 pounds ($73) for x2.6 on any version xbox, then extra 10 pounds ($18.22) for hdd install if supplied and £40 ($73) for 80gb maxtor or £55 ($100) for 120gb maxtor, try to avod going about 137 as my xbtools have buggered up and i can't edit any of my original bioses anymore sad.gif

Are these fair do you think?
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Ickypoopy on April 26, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
I have a slightly off-white bumpy wall.  I corrected for the off-whiteness off the wall with the color adjustments (looks perfectly as it should now) and the slightly bumpiness cant be seen unless you walk right up to the wall and look closely.  As for a screen, it will look best - but there is also special paint you can use that will give quality close to that of a proper screen.  Using this paint (or living with a plain wall) can save you lots of money.

Remember to have the projector perfectly in-line with the bottom of the screen (or top for ceiling mount) or you will need to use the keystone correction.  The keystone correction is a BAD thing to use, as it will cause the picture to be shown in less pixels.  This will cause a slight downsampling.  When this happens, you can sometimes see "jittering" lines, when the projector cant decide how to correctly distort the picture and one line keeps getting shifted back and forth by one pixel(Really only visible on still pictures).

The bulbs are quite costly, and will last anywhere from 2000-4000 hours (Check the specs for estimated bulb-life).  They arent too terribly breakable, but of course they can be broken if misshandled.  If it comes with a carrying case, make sure it is well padded to protect the bulb whenever you decide to travel with it.

Good luck, and it surely is worth the money smile.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 27, 2005, 03:49:00 AM
tongue.gif

Will keep looking, mostly found projectors of 800*600 and 1200 lumins (moomins smile.gif )

and average bulb life 3000hours

For a picture of about 1.5-2.0 metres across will the res. be high enough?


Anyways, thanks again, i'l check back later
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on April 29, 2005, 07:45:00 AM
smile.gif


|                                                                          
|                                                                        
|____                                                                  
|PROJ|                                                      
|                                                                        
|   __  W                                                              
|  ||||(  )>                                                            
|  ||||##                                                              
|  ||||##                                                              
|  ||||#####                                                      
|  ||||_____#
|  ||||||||||||#
|  L|||||||||||##

Sonething like this. (please have sympathy for me taking so long for something so crappy smile.gif

This had a screen and lookedea wee bit better but some fool (no offence mr mod.) stopped me from putting lots of spaces on a line sad.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on April 29, 2005, 08:48:00 AM
QUOTE(Ickypoopy @ Apr 27 2005, 12:57 PM)
Generally the projectors will project at an upwards angle, as to not obstruct view of the screen if sitting behind the projector.  Imagine watching a slideshow on a projector, but the projector blocks the center of the screen wink.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: minnow on April 29, 2005, 12:47:00 PM
The 800x600 resolution will run your 480p games just fine, but 720p games cannont be effectively shown in High Definition on a 800x600 projector.

That's not a huge deal now, but when Xbox 2nd gen comes out, you'll want it to shine with your projector. Might as well get a higher res.

As for the wall. . . I understand you're renting, so you may not be able to sand the wall flat and paint it.

I believe what Icky was saying, but I'm an A/V guy and a science geek. The truth is, if you shine a light on a rouned surface (even if it's a bunch of tiny rounded bumps), the light gets scattered, instead of being reflected accurately. It's like throwing a baseball at a basketball. The light gets bounced every which way, instead of giving a consisten picture to everyone from many angles. Flat walls are best. But bumpy ones will do.

As for the screen. . . A screen would be best, but if you can't get a screen, A smooth wall with flat paint will be the next best thing. "Flat" means it's not glossy. Now, some will argue about the best color of flat paint to buy. Some say white, while others say off-white, and some even say light gray. But flat paint is definitely what you want on the surface if you can't have a screen.

Really, a bunch of the guys here can attest that you'll get a decent image using many setups, and several setups will do, but I'm just trying to briefly let you know what's going to give you the highest quality image possible.

As for trapezoidal (keystone) adjustment, definitely get one with keystone ability. This will allow you to mount your projector at any respective angle, and adjust for the non-perpendicular alignment to the surface you are projecting onto. Most projectors sold today have that ability.

Also keep in mind that most projectors have a VGA (or equivalent) input to allow you to hook up a pc or laptop. This would be great while you're away at college because you could do your homework on the big-screen in your room, just for the fun of it!

Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on May 06, 2005, 05:51:00 AM
smile.gif

Somebody said before about setting up not really being for amateurs?  does this mean i can't set it up or just that it'll take me longer to get it right than for an expert?

Thanx again, i'm getting £250 a week job over summer (huge amount of money for a student smile.gif ) so will be buying before september ready for the new semester smile.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on May 06, 2005, 10:36:00 AM
QUOTE(rob_hellfire @ May 6 2005, 03:57 AM)
Keystone seems to be a very common feature as you said and i understand that setup will be fun smile.gif


You misunderstood me...keytsone adjustment is a common feature...I didn't say to look for that, I said, look for "optical keystone" adjustment.  Otherwise you are just loosing resolution by "faking" it.  Similar to the different between optical and digital zoom on a digital camera.
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: TrigunXBox on May 07, 2005, 12:07:00 AM
I use an old (1998) Hitachi LCD projector for my XBox. It's very old 800x600 (it will do 1024x768, but you can't read anything) and 650 lumins.  The quality looks fine when I project it on the wall for around a 60" display.  It's old and big, but I got it for free so I don't care.  

I found it really works well when hulled to a friends house for some XBox gaming or watching a movie.  Don't bolt yours down too much, you may want to take it with you.

Oh, and you will need a VGA adapter for the XBox and a long (I use a 15 foot one) VGA cable. Don't even think of using the SVideo or RCA cable for video. I may have to hurt you if you do.

Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on May 09, 2005, 05:13:00 AM
sad.gif

Oh i'm guessing vga needs and expensive cable to convert the signal as for compnent and dvi, whats going to make the difference for a 800x600 or 1024x768?

Hell my heasds hurting again uhh.gif

And i won't need dsuch a long cable anyways as going to have the xbox under my bed so wires from controllers pop up at my feet when playing so only gonna need a cable of say 8 feet.  Though will get a bigger one it it's cheap
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on May 09, 2005, 12:43:00 PM
S-Video is pretty bad...cannot handle progressive or any of the HD modes.

You want a projector that has component video in (3 RCA cables for video) and supports HD.

It should (IMHO) have a native 1280x720 resolution or better.  Remember, most XBOX games support 16:9 widescreen.  1024x768 is 4:3 non-widescreen.  1280x720 is native widescreen.

BTW one of the things that might be confusing, is there are projectors made more for home theaters (i.e. have component video inputs, support 720p and 1080i HD modes, support widescreen natively, may have a built in TV tuner) and ones made more for a computer/office environment (i.e. have VGA or DVI inputs, support 4:3 aspect ratio natively).
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on May 11, 2005, 02:32:00 PM
QUOTE(YoMama1111 @ May 11 2005, 12:03 PM)
I have, it's called lens shift - the sanyo z2 and z3 both have it.


Is that adjustable?  It sounds like an optical keystone adjustment, like I was talking about.  unsure.gif

If a projector doesn't have that, it would need to be mounted mid screen.
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: deacon187 on May 11, 2005, 03:05:00 PM
QUOTE(rob_hellfire @ Apr 27 2005, 02:55 AM)
I'm not sure if i can paint the wall with it being a rented house.



most all landlords say you can't paint the apaartment, everywhere i go everyone paints there rented apartment,  the main thing is to repaint it the original color before you leave or they deduct it out of your security deposit as they will have to contract  a painter and pay him before the next tennant moves in, so as long as you repaint, i really wouldnt worrie about that too much

try searching around in the show notes for the screensavers at g4techtv.com

there was an episode about making your own screen with a special canvas or using a wall with some special paint, i think total cost was like 150.00 bucks US and that was using the canvas
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: YoMama1111 on May 11, 2005, 11:03:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr Ed @ May 11 2005, 08:38 PM)
Is that adjustable?  It sounds like an optical keystone adjustment, like I was talking about.  unsure.gif
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: Mr Ed on May 12, 2005, 11:12:00 AM
Ok, so they are ALMOST the same thing:

Lens Shift:

http://htrgroup.com/...tion=lens-shift

Keystone:

http://htrgroup.com/...ection=keystone

In the search you posted, a lot of people are saying optical keystone and lens shift are the same thing, but it looks like they are different in that with optical keystone, the projector points at the center of the image being projected, but at an angle to the verticle wall, whereas with lens shift, the projector stays perpendicular to the verticle wall.
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: rob_hellfire on May 23, 2005, 08:23:00 AM
sad.gif
Oh well, alwats look forward

Also been readig about hd-packs and ntsc conversion, this sounds like it resets on reboot (enigma) so to not break your xbox, just wondering if i need ntsc games or will it just change the video encoder?
Title: Setting Up A Projector
Post by: TheKraken on May 24, 2005, 12:18:00 PM
Yo!

Guys, i'm trying to setup a Toshiba  TDP-T90 projector with the Xbox... but can't see widescreen on it.

The setup is like this:



          Xbox
widescreen mode
           l
           l

        VDZ3
VGA Transcoder

           l
           l

   Projector
         

          ll
No widescreen!!




Any ideas?


TIA