Post by: muell67 on July 08, 2004, 05:36:00 PM
Post by: ChrisF on July 08, 2004, 06:16:00 PM
A few years ago these sets were still a viable option but as more and more widescreen media becomes available it defeats the purpose of these sets. I usually don't have a strong opinion on something like this since it's individual choice but unless you get an absolutely outrageous deal you will be regreting this purchase very quickly if you plan on watching DVDs, HDTV, or gaming with a next generation console. You will loose on all 3 of those. Most of these sets are totally phased out or on their way. They are sort of a between generation that is getting the final nails put in its coffin within the next year or so.
There are a lot of other options out there at good prices. Rear projection CRT sets produce some outrageous quality images and can be had dirt cheap from time to time. You might also think about a front projector if you have the wall space and reasonably light controlled environment (DLP based X1 or similar). I'm not sure what your price range is but I'm guessing rear projection DLP/LCD and plasma is out if you are looking at direct views.
Some good forums are www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterspot.com. I can't imagine anyone there is going to tell you anything different on 4:3 direct view HDTVs but they are great places to read up on your options and what else is out there.
Post by: muell67 on July 08, 2004, 06:36:00 PM
Post by: ChrisF on July 09, 2004, 04:59:00 AM
As far as burn-in on a CRT based RPTV it is certainly possible but has become much more rare. If you have your brightness and contrast (most important) set correctly it shouldn't be a major issue as long as you mix up your viewing and don't play the same game with the same static images for an inordinate amount of time (think playing the same tank board on Atari 2600 Combat and leaving it on the screen for hours at a time and watching nothing else for a week). That said, you can't just forget about it and do horrible stuff to your set. If you think your viewing and gaming are able to strike a balance that will work then you should be cool. If not then this might not be an option for you.
16:9 televisions have stretch modes to fill the screen so 4:3 gaming isn't a huge issue unless it's very distortive. If you insist on using 4:3 there are hopefully grey rather than black bars to reduce the possibility of burn-in. That said, those bars are fixed in place so it's not something you'd want to use all the time on a CRT based RPTV but for direct view or dlp/lcd -front projectors it shouldn't be an issue.
Things that I'd be looking at are:
CRT-RPTV: if you think your viewing and gaming can strike a balance and you aren't going to have the same static images on the screen all the time this is a good option. Fairly cheap with some great deals as the 2005 models role out. Boscov's just had my set Mits 55413 for somewhere around $1350 in the past few weeks. That is an outrageous deal as many stores still have them going for $2000 and brand new they were around $2400 at intro. Mits doesn't work with Xbox 720p through the component inputs so that is a short coming (Pioneer also). Maybe look at Toshiba or Hitachi. Tosh is doing some major price slashing on upcoming models so something to keep in mind.
Front Projection: You need a reasonably light controlled room. This isn't really my forte but the Infocus X1 can be had for a bit under $1K. It supports 4:3 but you can project such a big image that it doesn't matter. It is DLP based so no burn-in potential. That said, a small protion of people see rainbows on current generation DLP based products so make sure you aren't one of those.
Direct View: I don't know - they don't come big enough for me so I don't really look at them much anymore (although I did like the XBR Wega a few years ago). Just go to a store. I'd really avoid a 4:3 (there's a post in this A/V forum right now about someone messing with Avalaunch using one of these - he's less than happy). Buying a 4:3 HDTV right now is a fairly bad move. If I had to go 4:3 I'd likely just buy non-HD and save my money.
Like I said before www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterspot.com are some good sites to do research on these.
Post by: Mr Ed on July 09, 2004, 06:48:00 AM
| QUOTE (ChrisF @ Jul 9 2004, 05:52 AM) |
| The under $1500 is the kicker. That puts you in either a CRT-RPTV, low-end front projector, or direct view. <snip> CRT-RPTV: if you think your viewing and gaming can strike a balance and you aren't going to have the same static images on the screen all the time this is a good option. Fairly cheap with some great deals as the 2005 models role out. Boscov's just had my set Mits 55413 for somewhere around $1350 in the past few weeks. That is an outrageous deal as many stores still have them going for $2000 and brand new they were around $2400 at intro. Mits doesn't work with Xbox 720p through the component inputs so that is a short coming (Pioneer also). Maybe look at Toshiba or Hitachi. Tosh is doing some major price slashing on upcoming models so something to keep in mind. |
Yep Because of the lack of 720p support in many CRT RPTVs you need to look at Hitachi, or Toshiba (because they do support 720p). I also haven't tested Sony and Sears was recently discounting a Sony RPTV. If you only want 36" (awefully small?) you should go with a direct view CRT.
Personally I wouldn't get an HDTV less than 60", but that's based on the size of my TV room.
Post by: muell67 on July 09, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
So what is the best type of rear projection? Which type is less likely to have burn in? or are they all about the same? Im very new to this and I dont fully understand all of the different types of rear projection. I also would prefer a Toshiba If anyone has had a good experience with them and gaming let me know what model.
Post by: xerxes3rd on July 10, 2004, 03:42:00 AM
I don't have first-hand experience with burn-in, but as ChrisF mentioned, as long as you change up the static images on the screen, you should be ok.
I also had similar concerns about viewing my 4:3 content on a 16x9 TV.... I found that I prefer to watch the 4x3 TV stretched to 16x9, and it doesn't look bad (IMO). I've also played some older ROMs (NES, Genesis), and they too look fine stretched.
Lastly, XBMC looks awesome in 1080i. =)
[Edit] Correction, XBMC runs in 480p.... but it still looks great.
This post has been edited by xerxes3rd: Jul 10 2004, 02:10 PM
Post by: ChrisF on July 10, 2004, 06:55:00 AM
So as far as CRT based RPTV HDTVs go the best brands over the years have consistently been Pioneer, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi. Pioneer has stopped making CRT-RPTVs but you can still find them around and get some decent close out deals (Costco had a 65" for $1999 last time I looked). Hitachi and Mits new models are coming out so getting a deal on a 2004 should be easy. I don't think there is anyone out there who really knows this stuff that puts Toshiba in the same class - that said they are good sets and their pricing is getting very attractive. The new 2005 Toshs are supposed to be very low priced. Although you can get a good deal most people should avoid floor models for CRT RPTV. These televisions ship in what's called "torch mode" often with 100% contrast and brightness so they can be better viewed in a bright showroom. This causes a lot of premature aging of the guns and carries burn-in potential. If you know what you are doing (read: you don't) you can examine the set and make a call on it. Most consumers are rolling the dice. So you might get lucky but you might get burned too.
Mits and Pioneer do not accept 720p over the component inputs (1080i/480i/480p only) so for a system like Xbox that has limited power for HD resolutions it manages to pull off 720p sometimes but rarely can manage 1080i. Next generation this won't be a problem and Xbox is the only console this generation where you run into an issue so if you feel that this is important enough to base a display purchase off of you should avoid Pioneer and Mits while looking toward Hitachi and Toshiba. Of course there are whole other issues as I believe both scale all images to 540p or 1080i meaning you don't get native 480p resolution for progressive DVDs. Whatever though, it likely won't be noticable and this is something that only comes up in enthusiast land. As far as other 720p compatibility issues about 99.99% of people have no issues as their settop box or tuner converts everything to 1080i for them. There are a few exotic products that you may run into (Mr. Ed is a fan of the current generation of HD camcorders and there are a few D-VHS units running around but the vast majority are 1080i compatible and the industry is moving towards more compatibility rather than less - plus you are very very unlikely to run into something like this even if you went looking). Basically, for me - I wouldn't avoid a great deal on a Mits or Pioneer and buy a Toshiba or a higher priced Hitachi because of the 720p thing. How important the limited Xbox 720p selection is to you is another matter - there aren't a lot now and there won't be a lot later due to the limits of the console. I can look over the selection and there are few games that even interest me. So do with that info what you will.
Post by: xerxes3rd on July 10, 2004, 07:13:00 AM
[Edit] Just checked the display settings on my TV. The contrast is set to 100% and the brightness is set to 50%. Could these settings be enough to have already damaged the unit?
This post has been edited by xerxes3rd: Jul 10 2004, 03:10 PM
Post by: ChrisF on July 10, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
Regardless of that, the Hitachi is a great set. I'd give it a good look over but it will serve you well for years. There is no guarantee that a floor model is a bad thing but there is certainly an increased possibility as running all day every day at 100% isn't exactly normal wear and tear on an item. BTW - extended warranties don't cover burn-in and if it's not there already you are fine. Just take the contrast to 50% and get yourself an AVIA or Digital Video Essentials disc and do the basics to it. You can also check out the tweak threads and forums at www.hometheaterspot.com and www.avsforum.com. You can find a lot of info about doing calibration work and get the most out of your display.
This post has been edited by ChrisF: Jul 10 2004, 07:36 PM
Post by: xerxes3rd on July 10, 2004, 01:44:00 PM
muell67: Sorry, I kinda did a little hostile takeover of your thread. I apologize, and we can now return to the discussion at hand. =)
Post by: NizZ8 on July 11, 2004, 05:37:00 PM
Post by: irfan on July 19, 2004, 08:08:00 PM
keep in mind, not many HDTV channels are out there and even fewer broadcast full time... i know tis will change in the future... but a 61" 4:3 will run less than a 57" 16:9, and in 16:9 mode the viewing size is similar, i believe i jsut measured 56" on my mothers TV... that said, 4:3 programming (MOST of the programming available) will be smaller on the 16:9 tv... also, out Sony 61" that i am using hasnt had a single issue in 4 years, they are pretty durable these days.
Im looking into projectors as well, although my room size will limit the X1 to a 78" screen ( i know, TINY!)... but i think i may check out a benq6200, as this supports XGA resolution so it will be better for HDTV. the X1 has a visible screendoor effect at 80", but i didnt really notice the rainbow effect or get a huge headache, from my experience... i think the 6200 is running for 1169 after rebate which is a good steal... but remember that standard TV will look like crap and new bulbs after 2-3000 hours run abour 3-400bucks. Thats an extra 400dollars every 2.5 years (3hr/day), so over 5 years it will be 1169+800= almost $2,000. add the price of a screen, 200 or so, and ur at $2200, where the RPTV will not cost an extra money.
I think if i find a 65"RPTV for a bargain im gonan jump on that. of course i may move apartments where i could get a screen up to 130" in the future and i already have a 32" mitsubishi i could use for regular viewing....hmmm
Post by: apw100 on July 20, 2004, 08:50:00 AM
If you want something that is bigger than 36" and under $1500, then you will have to get a cheaper brand tv. However, there is a Toshiba(Model: 34HF83 at Best Buy) that is 34" and costs exactly $1500. It also has a DVI input, which will provide the best picture quality possible. However, I'm not sure whether it can accept a 720p signal, so check that out. If it cant, dont buy it.
The best brands for a resonably priced rear-projection set would be Hitachi, Sony and Toshiba. You can probably find a 51" model for around the $1500 mark. Do NOT buy a Mitsubishi! While they make excellent tv's, they cannot accept a 720p signal, which is what virtually all XBOX HD games output as.
I recommend a Hitachi, because they can accept 720p signals, and are known to have one of the best pictures out there
Post by: Owtlaw333 on July 20, 2004, 07:29:00 PM
(Sry if any of this was already mentioned
_
Post by: irfan on July 21, 2004, 07:51:00 PM
BTW- Texas Instruments (TI, makers of those calculators) is responsible for DLP, not samsung.
Post by: Owtlaw333 on July 22, 2004, 01:57:00 AM
Post by: ChrisF on July 22, 2004, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: Mr Ed on July 22, 2004, 09:45:00 AM
| QUOTE (Owtlaw333 @ Jul 22 2004, 02:00 AM) |
| Samsung is responsible for developing DLP rear projection technology... TI migh be responsible for DLP technology for projectors. |
Uh no TI exclusivly manufactures the DLP chips.
Samsung is responsible for aggressibly marketing a rear projection application of TI's DLP chips.
Samsung may have developed their own "light engine." Do you know what a light engine is? It's a light bulb and a lens. I think TI even designs the color wheel.
Post by: Owtlaw333 on July 22, 2004, 10:31:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Recognizing the potential of DLP technology on the television market, Samsung joined forces with Texas Instruments to aggressively invest in the development and engineering of a line of DLP TVs." |
I guess I miss understood this statement I read a while back
EDIT: LG was the other company I couldn't think of btw
Post by: Mr Ed on July 22, 2004, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: mattb on July 22, 2004, 03:15:00 PM
BTW- The TV does have DVI, but I haven't tried it yet.
Moral of the story: Shop around! and educate yourself as much as possible.
Post by: colt .45 on July 24, 2004, 07:44:00 PM