xboxscene.org forums

OG Xbox Forums => Hardware Forums => Xbox Audio/Video Technical => Topic started by: hydraulix on November 03, 2003, 06:53:00 PM

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 03, 2003, 06:53:00 PM

I see a lot of games like Halo, SWAT, PSO, and tons of others that are locked at 30fps. WHY!?!? We all know the xbox has a lot more power than this.

I have seen a patch to force the game to run in 480p/720p etc, but this has no effect on the actuall framerate. I am willing to bet a simple hex edit can change the vsync rate from 30Hz/40Hz to 60Hz.

60Hz is all I ask, no more. 60fps allows the game to run visually as smooth as our eyes can percive. (well up to around 72-75fps).

anyone have any ideas? I've searched high and low for solutions, and have come up empty handed, and Im not knowledgeable enough to hex edit the xbe's to get them to run at a different refresh rate.

Any help would be appreciated.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: Mr Ed on November 03, 2003, 07:24:00 PM

QUOTE (hydraulix @ Nov 3 2003, 08:53 PM)

The only connections that MS has on an NTSC XBOX are RCA (composite), S-Video, and component right?

All of those only support 60 fields per second, or 60Hz, or 30fps (composite). Why would they bother to support anything else if the hardware doesn't support it?

Supporting other framerates just adds to the amount of code the programmer has to write. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 18, 2003, 04:21:00 PM

it shouldnt affect any code at all. its a simple vsync setting. either 30 or 60. the RCA has nothing to do with the actuall games internal framerate.

if anyone has any info on hex editing this i would greatly appreciate it.

another few games that are locked at 30fps but can with no doubt handle a higher framerate.

Counter-Strike
Project Gotham Racing II
Prince of Persia
and a ton more that would look absolutley beautiful at 60 fps rather than 30.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: LEDHaywire on November 18, 2003, 05:15:00 PM

one word....anti-aliasing

that slows it down to 30fps

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 18, 2003, 05:19:00 PM

incorrect, look at games such as

Tonyhawk Underground
Rayman III
Burnout II
Dead or Alive III
Finding Nemo
Midnight CLub II
Otogi Myth of Demons

i can go on and on

all these games use either 2x or 4x anti aliasing, and they still run at a solid 60fps. The Geforce3 thats built into the xbox is specifically designed to handle the AA for xbox games and in no way slows them down.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: DaShiZNiT on November 18, 2003, 08:59:00 PM

this is interesting and Im gonna ask my friend about it, I hear ya man. When xbox FIRST came out, I JUST bought a GeForce 3 Ti for my PC, and was like ah its cool and all, but dang that Xbox is only 199.99. Then as soon as I found out they had the same GFX card, I took that mutha back so quick!

this truly would benifit SHITTY ASS PS2 CONVERSION GAMES

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: kaioshade on November 18, 2003, 09:04:00 PM

Im sure there is some technical reason why some games are at 30 fps.

my reasoning is i think that devs would rather have a game at a constant 30 fps rather than 60 fps with occassional stutters.

but seriously, does it really maytter THAT much?

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: DaShiZNiT on November 18, 2003, 09:43:00 PM

it would be cool to tinker with, like trying to see what resolution your PC will run games, you know...

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 18, 2003, 11:49:00 PM

QUOTE (kaioshade @ Nov 19 2003, 07:04 AM)

hell yea it matters dude. especially in fast paced multiplayer games it matters BIG TIME!!

i myself would also like to tinker with it to push the xbox and see what it can do. Im running a X2VGA adapter, and my monitor can support full 1080i. not only would i like to raise the cap from 30 to 60, but id love to push the resolutions up as well to 720p and 1080i as well.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: shorty on November 19, 2003, 12:04:00 AM

QUOTE (hydraulix @ Nov 4 2003, 04:53 AM)

I see a lot of games like Halo, SWAT, PSO, and tons of others that are locked at 30fps. WHY!?!? We all know the xbox has a lot more power than this.

It does take even a tiny bit more power then you can rule out halo.... and probably some others....

Check out the last level in halo...... with all that mad activity going on... it slows and stutters just like a PC game that doesn't have a fast enough CPU.

- Shorty

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: mcsuede on November 19, 2003, 06:26:00 AM

yeah i seriously doubt halo could handle much more in the framerate area...i play in a weekly halo league, and when you get say four people in a close area all spraying lead and throwing grenades, you can see the framerate stutter (and i can tell the difference between framerate lag and network lag, it's not network lag), same thing goes during a lot of the complex single player areas. We'll see what they do with Halo 2, but bungie has said it themselves, Halo xbox code is crap, they had no idea what they were doing, but they still produced genius.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: Mr Ed on November 19, 2003, 08:37:00 AM

QUOTE (hydraulix @ Nov 19 2003, 01:49 AM)

QUOTE (kaioshade @ Nov 19 2003, 07:04 AM)

What monitor are you using? You say it supports 1080i, well you'll never get higher than 30fps (or 60fields per second) on that mode, so even if the XBOX could draw frames at 100 fps, you monitor can't display them that quickly.

Remember, if a game gets 150fps and your monitor is only 75Hz you only see 75fps.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: Mr Ed on November 19, 2003, 08:39:00 AM

QUOTE (mcsuede @ Nov 19 2003, 08:26 AM)

I've got some friends who love Fusion Frenzy. I'm not a huge fan, but play it when they want to.

This is a very simply game with few 3-D effects, etc. What I can't get over is in some of the more busy screens, major (like 50%) slowdown. Amazing.

I don't think this game was written to take full advantage of the XBOX's power.

How about Unreal2003 (oh sorry CHAMPIONSHIP)? Lot's of dropped frames on that game, even in single player mode.

This post has been edited by Mr Ed: Nov 19 2003, 04:40 PM

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 19, 2003, 10:07:00 AM

Mr Ed,

QUOTE

How about Unreal2003 (oh sorry CHAMPIONSHIP)? Lot's of dropped frames on that game, even in single player mode.

Unreal was rushed and coded like shit. You can expect frame drops. Of course its going to bog out even more in single player than in multiplayer, due to the CPU having the extra weight of the AI.

QUOTE

You are correct about 1080i, but only because it is interlaced @30hz. As far as a game pushing 150fps and a monitor that only supports 75Hz only being able to show 75FPS, you are incorrect.
This is where vsync, and shearing and tearing come into play. If you take a look at the game Serious Sam (the xbox version), they have disabled VSYNC completely. This means that the framerate is not locked to the games internal refresh rate. The refresh rate was set at 60Hz (as is every xbox game, not many TV's support higher) but the framerate was not sync'ed. Therefor resulting in higher frames per second but the side effect is a small amount of shearing and tearing on the image. Usually visible when making quick turns left and right.

Ill use PC games as an example but this also pertains to any xbox game. The game sets the internal refresh rate (usually to 60 by default). If vsync is disabled, then the games FPS can run as high as your PC can push them regardless of what your monitors maximum refresh rate is (example, i was able to crank out over 500FPS in Quake III, but we all know there is no monitor on earth that has a 500Hz refresh rate). Once vsync is enabled, the game then syncronizes the framerate to the refreshrate that has been set internally by the game which in turn caps the game to 60fps resulting in a much smoother and solid image for motion and gaming. If for whatever reason, the system cannot handle everything on the screen at a solid 60fps with vsync enabled, then it will cut itself in half to 30fps. But then come right back to 60fps when the action has chilled out and there are less polygons on the screen.

The entire point of this thread is not to debate wether or not the xbox has enough juice to push the games further, this is already a known fact that it does, and personally I could care less if HALO ran better or worse I simply do not play that game. The point is to attempt to tinker with the XBE's hex code to change these limits imposed by the game makers.

Afterall, the main reason we have a modded xbox in the first place is to run homebrew and custom software.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: LEDHaywire on November 20, 2003, 03:22:00 PM

QUOTE (hydraulix @ Nov 18 2003, 10:19 PM)

although it may be true, lets take unreal championship for example, it took atari almost a year to release a patch to remove anti-aliasing and Vsync...and the game ran faster. Removing AA/Vsync from Halo may possibly make the game faster...but that has yet to be seen

As far as thos other games go, they look pretty nice on high-resolution, not gonna argue with speeds on those

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: Mr Ed on November 21, 2003, 06:19:00 AM

All I was saying is that if your monitor only draws 75 times per second, getting 150fps doesn't do you any good as you can't see more than 75 frames per second.

Also, patch for Unreal Championship that makes it go faster?! I bought this game when it first came out, was so dissapointed by the speed, it's been sitting in the bottom of my entertainment center. Are you saying I can hook up to XBOX Live or something, and get a speed update for it now?

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: hydraulix on November 21, 2003, 06:51:00 AM

Yeah let us know about this Unreal Championship update. It sounds interesting. perhaps even to take a close look and compare the XBE's to help us better understand tweakin these puppies.

Title: Why Are Some Games Locked At 30fps?
Post by: thejt on November 21, 2003, 10:30:00 AM

Bottom line.. your "real" FPS is only as high as your Refresh rate! Since the xbox is a TV based device Im sure the last thing they were worried about was mega fps.