Post by: -FourDoor- on March 23, 2004, 02:40:00 PM
Now time to test this when I get home. I wonder how the text/fonts will look all shrunk down in 1080i... 
Any chance of a screen calibration tool hidden in there as well?
Post by: unleashx on March 23, 2004, 06:21:00 PM
The current release scales the font relative to the screen size -that's why I said don't expect it to be pretty. I'm still deciding whether I'd do it that way, resizing, or let it be since the user can always change the font, thus, the font size. I don't know, I need an idea.
Post by: -FourDoor- on March 23, 2004, 11:17:00 PM
Full Size 1920x1080:
UnleashX 1080i ScreenShot 01
UnleashX 1080i ScreenShot 02
UnleashX 1080i ScreenShot 03
UnleashX 1080i ScreenShot 04
Aproximation of overscan on my set:
A couple of quick observations about 1080i:
1. The fonts scaled and positioned itself very well (much better than my first try at 1080i with XBMP). Now font selection/size as you can see in some of the screenshots will definitely need to be considered for skinners. Whatever font neo used for his milky skin menu selection looks really sweet...
2. Overscan appears to be identical to that at 480p. See screenshot above
3. Tried to start UX in 720p which my set doesnt support on purpose and it safely defaulted back to 480p.
and one quick question. So now that HDTV skins should be possible, can font positioning now reflect the 1920x1080 or 1280x720 background images/videos the skinners uses?
Awesome work UX!
Post by: unleashx on March 23, 2004, 11:59:00 PM
There are so many things to consider when using HDTV. Whether you scale the fonts or not, decide whether the text should be adjusted to the left, middle, or right. These images should help me out in designing a better implementation.
As to your question of positioning, I believe what you want to know is whether you can design your skin using 1920x1080, 1280x720, not just 640x480. Yes, you can, by providing an element called "ScreenSize". Full syntax is <ScreenSize Width="1920" />. This should tell the dash not to do any scaling when the resolution is 1080i. For all other skins, it will be scaled up. Note that these are still experimental, so it may not work as expected. I'm kinda working like a blind here, calculating everything in my mind.
Like I said, I'm still contemplating whether I do an automatic scaling like it is now, or let the user have more control by providing their own font. Then again, it's easy to provide your own font and add the ScreenSize element. For this, I need an idea.
Note that not all modules are being resize, these are just experimental anyways, so it's not done yet.
If you can also take a snapshot using the default skin, that would be great.
Post by: lotw on March 24, 2004, 07:36:00 AM
| QUOTE (unleashx @ Mar 24 2004, 09:59 AM) |
| Damn, I couldn't get any luckier, could I? There are so many things to consider when using HDTV. Whether you scale the fonts or not, decide whether the text should be adjusted to the left, middle, or right. These images should help me out in designing a better implementation. As to your question of positioning, I believe what you want to know is whether you can design your skin using 1920x1080, 1280x720, not just 640x480. Yes, you can, by providing an element called "ScreenSize". Full syntax is <ScreenSize Width="1920" />. This should tell the dash not to do any scaling when the resolution is 1080i. For all other skins, it will be scaled up. Note that these are still experimental, so it may not work as expected. I'm kinda working like a blind here, calculating everything in my mind. Like I said, I'm still contemplating whether I do an automatic scaling like it is now, or let the user have more control by providing their own font. Then again, it's easy to provide your own font and add the ScreenSize element. For this, I need an idea. Note that not all modules are being resize, these are just experimental anyways, so it's not done yet. If you can also take a snapshot using the default skin, that would be great. |
Ya, it worked just about perfect on the first try with my skin too. Some of the text drifted a little, but not much at all, of coarse the fonts would have to be made a little larger.
I am going to have to try and redo my skin at 1080i mode and test it out.
One things to note is the filemanager on Projections at 1080i get cut off pretty bad on the left, right, and top. In fact on the top, the whole box where root is displayed is gone. On the left side it seems to cut off all the way tp the s in unleashx. So you don't see the folder icon or the word up to that point.
Post by: harrytasker on March 24, 2004, 07:57:00 AM
Do i have to change some setting in the dashboard first????
Using Xenium os1.1 and HiDef pack...
Post by: unleashx on March 24, 2004, 08:06:00 AM
Post by: harrytasker on March 24, 2004, 08:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (unleashx @ Mar 24 2004, 06:06 PM) |
| Yup, you need to enable those options in MS Dash. |
I mean do i have to set it up in the UnleashX dashboard, cause everything in the MSdash is already setup for me, my projector supports all the outputs made available by the XBOX...
Post by: unleashx on March 24, 2004, 08:58:00 AM
Post by: -FourDoor- on March 24, 2004, 09:06:00 AM
I'll take some screenshots of the default skin and filemanager when I get back home tonight... As far as the high res skinning goes, thanks for the clarification. I'll have to give it a shot later when I find some more free time.
A couple more quick question/clarification. If I understand your post correctly and for some miracle I or someone else can spit out a 1280x720 video in .xmv format or even a plain .png, and use that as a background, the current release should be able to upscale the background to 1080i, correct? If so, the screensize tag should be <ScreenSize Width="1280" />?
What happens when you have a skin that is 1920x1080? Will UX also scale down for the 720p users? Or will skinners have to make "optimized" versions of their skins that work well with 720p or 1080i?
Thinking of all the diffrent combinations now just boggles my mind. I can't even imagine what it's like to code this kind of stuff...
Post by: harrytasker on March 24, 2004, 09:18:00 AM
My settings in MSdash are ok, just played MXuleashed at 1080i!!!
Post by: -FourDoor- on March 24, 2004, 09:24:00 AM
| QUOTE (harrytasker @ Mar 24 2004, 11:18 AM) |
| mmm sorry but it doesnt work for me sofar. Do i need to have a special skinsize or something? ???? My settings in MSdash are ok, just played MXuleashed at 1080i!!! |
Are you holding down the "BACK" button the entire time starting from powerup/bootup to when the skin finally appears?
Post by: harrytasker on March 24, 2004, 09:28:00 AM
Maybe the xenium is causing troubles??????
thnx for help btw
Post by: unleashx on March 24, 2004, 09:36:00 AM
| QUOTE (-FourDoor- @ Mar 25 2004, 02:06 AM) |
| A couple more quick question/clarification. If I understand your post correctly and for some miracle I or someone else can spit out a 1280x720 video in .xmv format or even a plain .png, and use that as a background, the current release should be able to upscale the background to 1080i, correct? If so, the screensize tag should be <ScreenSize Width="1280" />? What happens when you have a skin that is 1920x1080? Will UX also scale down for the 720p users? Or will skinners have to make "optimized" versions of their skins that work well with 720p or 1080i? Thinking of all the diffrent combinations now just boggles my mind. I can't even imagine what it's like to code this kind of stuff... |
Background images/videos should scale up/down irregardless of the screensize tag. The screensize tag is only useful for the infotext, shapes and windowed images (meaning the ones that doesn't take the entire screen, like game icons). If the size matches the selected resolution, then, no scaling is necessary. Note that while an 1920x1080 image may look good, it takes longer to load them.
720p and 1081i have the same aspect ratio, so any skin designed for each should look good on any of them. -that is if I can make smart scaling perfect
. But for all intesive purposes, if you don't want to do any automatic scaling and want it to look exactly that way you like it to, then, skinners should create an "optimized" version.I'll add some settings to enable these options without having to go to the dash, experimental on my part, of course, and will take the need to press those buttons in future releases. "Back" will be the safeboot, meaning prevents switching to any of the higher res mode.
Post by: WabidWoveren on March 24, 2004, 01:53:00 PM
| CODE |
| |
i made up the .25 and .35 so dont expect them to work
Post by: Gomorule on March 24, 2004, 02:17:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (unleashx @ Mar 24 2004, 06:06 PM) Yup, you need to enable those options in MS Dash. I mean do i have to set it up in the UnleashX dashboard, cause everything in the MSdash is already setup for me, my projector supports all the outputs made available by the XBOX... |
Hmm... I just tried it and it doesn't seem to work for me either. MSDash is set correctly and all my HD games are working fine. I tried holding back then powering on the box...no luck. Same thing using start.... I just get regular 480. My TV supports 720p and 1080i.
Any ideas?
Version 1 Xbox
Latest X2 bios
Post by: lotw on March 24, 2004, 04:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (Gomorule @ Mar 25 2004, 12:17 AM) | ||
Hmm... I just tried it and it doesn't seem to work for me either. MSDash is set correctly and all my HD games are working fine. I tried holding back then powering on the box...no luck. Same thing using start.... I just get regular 480. My TV supports 720p and 1080i. Any ideas? Version 1 Xbox Latest X2 bios |
Did you hold the button down till the dashboard came up? Turn the Xbox on and press and hold the back or start till you see the dashboard. If you have your MS Dashboard setting correct for the Video options (480p Yes, 720p yes, 1080i yes) then it should work.
Post by: -FourDoor- on March 24, 2004, 06:53:00 PM
Anyone else having this problem with the file browser?Edit: I also tried to play .wmv and .xmv vid files through the file browser @ 1080i and the video was extremely extremely slow. Also the video that played back was zoomed in and had about 1/4 of the bottom of the video off on the bottom of the screen. I tried to take a screenshot of the vid but the screenshot comes up empty and just shows the folder but not the video.
Post by: unleashx on March 24, 2004, 07:47:00 PM
So please if you have some, share 'em.
Post by: -FourDoor- on March 24, 2004, 08:27:00 PM
| QUOTE (unleashx @ Mar 24 2004, 09:47 PM) |
| Like I discussed with one beta tester, the overscanning seems to differ from mode to mode. This means that for every mode, I will have to have a separate settings and apply it accordingly. Some immediate problems: Like lotw said, the xbox library have trouble, or doesn't allow loading huge images. I have to find out the maximum size of image that will load succesfully. Some questions: Is the font of the file manager readable at 1080i? Should I leave it at that or provide a means to scale the font? What about the options menu, system info, settings screen? Do the fonts need to scale up? Undoubtedly, menu icons, as well as menu text needs to be scaled up appropriately. I need as much suggestions and ideas here since I'm kinda blind as a bat So please if you have some, share 'em. |
Sweet... I'm glad screen calibration is coming along. Actually after looking at the screenshots closer, the images actually look pretty good and detailed upscaled to the 1920x1080 screenshots even though the original source was only 640x480. So maybe having a lower res pic will do and not require skinners to have full 1920x1080 image if the size limit can't be overcome.
Answer to questions:
The font is barely readable at 1080i and is rather too small for my taste. Plus I'm viewing it on a 65" screen. When I split my screen in 2 which is aprox a 30 something " screen, the text is not legibale at all. I believe a means to scale the font would be best.
The systems info/settings screen are nearly identical to the file browser. It is a bit more clear in my opinion but def need to be scaled as well. Also the white lines surrounding the volume bar graph as well as the pop up confirmation screen flickers just like the white lines in the file browser. I'm guessing that the white line is one pixel width and hense getting the whole flicker effect from the interlace aspect of 1080i
I also just tried the blue asura skin to see if the intro video would slow down like the ones i watched from the file browser. The videos played fine but the menu navigation had extremely slowed down. In particular, the smooth transition in between items in the menu
As far as suggestions goes, each HDTV set is going to be different. Lots of users are gonna use 1080i and the rest are gonna be die hard 720p. And as you said, the overscan is different for each of these modes. So screen calibration is a def plus and pretty much a necessity for hdtv/xbox IMHO...
Also the fonts look nice and sharp and somewhat legible at least on my set but again, this might be due to the size of the screen as well. Even if the fonts were scaled just a bit larger, it would still not fit everyones needs, although would help tremendously on mine. So giving the user the ability to scale all the system/file browser, and possibly even the skin-menu/info fonts might be a good option to have in the systems menu.I'm defenitely loving how the dash looks so sharp right now at 1080i! Great work once again on the dash!
Post by: GrayCalx on March 25, 2004, 10:50:00 AM
Thanks for the work.