Post by: opjose on October 12, 2002, 11:16:00 PM
| QUOTE (Yohan @ Oct 13 2002, 05:01 AM) |
| I have copied about a dozen games to my new Hard drive. (100GB) If I play a game more than 5 minutes (not all games), they lock up. During lockup, there sometimes is a cotinuous annoying noise. Please let me know any suggestions that you may have. I am running 1.8.458 of evox. Thanks |
Use the NEW version of Evolution-X, there were some reported lockup issues.
Also you DO have an upgraded drive right?
If not, at this point I start with "ARE YOU CRAZY!"...
If so, you should format your partitions TWICE to avoid problems reading or writing to the HD. There is a bug afoot somewhere which is corrected by this.
Post by: opjose on October 13, 2002, 10:47:00 AM
You may have a heat problem with your Xbox too.
Search the "heat" threads (please do not accept the defaults when you search, you must set the ALL forums and search Today and OLDER, when you do.)
Post by: opjose on October 13, 2002, 11:08:00 AM
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Post by: Yohan on October 13, 2002, 08:26:00 PM
Post by: opjose on October 13, 2002, 10:57:00 PM
| QUOTE (Yohan @ Oct 14 2002, 02:25 AM) |
| okay, done i also ordered one of those ari coolers that attach to the side of the xbox. i hope that i didn't make a mistake by doing this. anyone ever heard of this helping at all? thanks for all your help! |
They do help by keeping the Xbox cooler.
If you are having heat problems, often "re-pasting" the heat sinks helps even more.
I did this on one machine and it cured all freezing.
Post by: THr on October 14, 2002, 04:21:00 PM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 13 2002, 04:47 PM) |
| you may have a heat problem with your Xbox too. |
Why should running a game (Conflict Desert Storm for me) from hdd, i.s.o. from dvd, give rise to a heat problem? I thought heat was mainly caused by the cpu and videoprocessor and those are doing the same work. i think the hdd is even idle during a lot of gaming because all the stuff is in main memory. So running from hdd or dvd should not make so much difference.
I have exactly the same problem. Game locks up after 5 or so minutes but runs fine when i use the original dvd. Why would the latter solution be cooler?
I copied all the stuff with boXplorer so i'm pretty sure i didn't forget a file or something.
I'm running CDS from E: on the original hdd with same evox as poster. Not wise i hear you say, but i started today with all this stuff, so a new hdd will be in soon. And btw, the poster has already installed a big one so?
Any ideas other than heat or bugs in the game? Does the hdd have problems with reading (game) and writing (cache) at the same time or something?
Post by: THr on October 14, 2002, 04:25:00 PM
| QUOTE (theferalmoon @ Oct 14 2002, 05:48 PM) |
| He mentions a continuous, annoying noise. This concerns me. Is it a ticking noise? Coming from the HD? May be a bad HD. |
I think its the sound that 'hangs' (it happens with me). That can be annoying
Post by: opjose on October 15, 2002, 12:09:00 AM
| QUOTE (THr @ Oct 14 2002, 10:21 PM) |
I'm running CDS from E: on the original hdd with same evox as poster. Not wise i hear you say, but i started today with all this stuff, so a new hdd will be in soon. And btw, the poster has already installed a big one so? Any ideas other than heat or bugs in the game? Does the hdd have problems with reading (game) and writing (cache) at the same time or something? |
No I'm not saying that running from the hard drive is any different heat wise. I'm simply stating that your Xbox may have a heat problem which manifests as a freeze somewhat into the game.
Even when you are running the game from DVD you are basically using the hard drive.
Note: Is this a downloaded copy of Conflict Deseart Storm?
If so there was a problem with some of the files in it which will account for your freezing!
Post by: opjose on October 15, 2002, 12:12:00 AM
| QUOTE (THr @ Oct 14 2002, 10:25 PM) | ||
I think its the sound that 'hangs' (it happens with me). That can be annoying |
The Xbox seems to lock up during DVD DMA xfers when it needs to access the audio stream for background music.
Yes you may get the annoying sound wave loop when this happens.
This is heat related as when the machine is warm the problem is exacerbated. It also may be a program flaw but unlikely as this occurs with frequency on the affected machines.
Often turning OFF background music greatly diminishes this problem, but if you treat it as a heat issue you may well eliminate it altogether.
I've repasted two machines so affected and have had no problems since. Others posted similiar results, which led me to repaste my machines to begin with.
Post by: THr on October 15, 2002, 01:28:00 AM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 15 2002, 06:09 AM) |
| 1. No I'm not saying that running from the hard drive is any different heat wise. 1a. I'm simply stating that your Xbox may have a heat problem which manifests as a freeze somewhat into the game. 2. Even when you are running the game from DVD you are basically using the hard drive. 3. Note: Is this a downloaded copy of Conflict Deseart Storm? If so there was a problem with some of the files in it which will account for your freezing! |
1. Agree, so 'heatwise' it should make no (big) difference
2. Ok, so 'heatwise' it should make no (big) difference
3. boXplorer direct copy of a ORIGINAL dvd, so i'm pretty sure i'm not missing anything
That leaves 1a, which can be true of course but it would show both when playing from dvd and from hdd. In my case the freeze only occurs when playing from hdd. I go for your next posting (about DMA stuff etc.)
Post by: THr on October 15, 2002, 01:38:00 AM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 15 2002, 06:12 AM) |
| The Xbox seems to lock up during DVD DMA xfers when it needs to access the audio stream for background music. ... but if you treat it as a heat issue you may well eliminate it altogether ... |
In my case it should be the HDD DMA xfers (not the DVD DMA xfers) which cause the trouble.
But anyway, you could be right that it all traces back to a lurking heat problem which manifests itself just enough when running from hdd and just not enough when runnoing from dvd.
Repasting? best place to look? (this forum right?
) I didn't mod my xbox myself but i'm willing to do this repasting thing myself.Post by: opjose on October 15, 2002, 02:18:00 AM
If you are using a retail version and/or see this problem occur a lot on other games then I'd try "repasting".
To do the latter...
1 - Open the Xbox and remove the hard disk and dvd drive.
2 - Unlatch the CPU heatsink.
3 - GENTLY pry the "legs" away from the fan retainer to free the heatsink
4 - Remove the heatsink.
5 - You will find some existing material on the heatsink, this must be totally removed. I used a little gentle scraping and a cleaner bath for electonic components. The latter "melted" the remaining material.
6 - Apply "heatsink thermal paste" to the heatsink spreading it thinly in an even coat where the CPU contacted the heatsink.
The stuff I used is available in tubes from any Electronics supplier and has a high metal content. It is white in color as it comes from the tube.
It's a heavy oily paste.
7 - Place the heatsink back in place and try not to move it, reinstall the fan and relatch.
8 - close up Xbox and play away.
Post by: THr on October 15, 2002, 03:27:00 AM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 15 2002, 08:18 AM) |
| If you are only getting freezing in Desert Storm, I'd suspect the copy you are using being at fault even if it copied to the hard disk w/o trouble. If you are using a retail version and/or see this problem occur a lot on other games then I'd try "repasting". To do the latter... ... |
Thx for the repasting 'manual'
OK, now for something also interesting:)
In Desert Storm you can put the music volume down to zero but i suspect the music is STILL playing (data xfers etc.), so that's no good. However, you can also play your own music.
I have created a folder 'no sound' with, err, no music in it. In Desert Storm i put under options that i want to play as music the 'no sound' folder with the result ... really no music. Simple.
Result so far: no freeze yet! (after 20 minutes). Whereas it would freeze after about 5 minutes with music.
I will come back to this when i play for hours.
....
I'm back. I've played for more than 1 hour. No Freeze!!
More definite solution in the case of CDS is to rename folder sound (e.g. to soundx) or even delete it (It didn't try) You won't hear any music or intro speach. The sfx are still there.
My conclusion so far is that the DMA xfers of sound from hdd cause the trouble by either locking with some other xfers (like caching ) over the same dataline or whatever (i.s.o. the separate dataline for dvd, now you only use the hdd, but i'm no tech guy) or perhaps the DMA xfers of music from hdd generates to much heat (?) in some way, and then we are back at the 'heat' discussion.
Post by: opjose on October 15, 2002, 04:22:00 AM
| QUOTE (THr @ Oct 15 2002, 09:27 AM) | ||
Thx for the repasting 'manual' OK, now for something also interesting:) In Desert Storm you can put the music volume down to zero but i suspect the music is STILL playing (data xfers etc.), so that's no good. However, you can also play your own music. I have created a folder 'no sound' with, err, no music in it. In Desert Storm i put under options that i want to play as music the 'no sound' folder with the result ... really no music. Simple. Result so far: no freeze yet! (after 20 minutes). Whereas it would freeze after about 5 minutes with music. I will come back to this when i play for hours. |
Heh, thanks you've proven my hypothesis about DMA xfers on the Xbox and sound. This is exacerbated by heat on older machines it seems, dunno why.
I had similiar results with a few games.
It might very well also be a bug in the SDK these companies used, because other games will not freeze up at all on the same machine that is prone to do this.
An SDK bug would account for a lot of things.
Post by: THr on October 15, 2002, 04:54:00 AM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 15 2002, 10:22 AM) |
| Heh, thanks you've proven my hypothesis about DMA xfers on the Xbox and sound. This is exacerbated by heat on older machines it seems, dunno why. I had similiar results with a few games. It might very well also be a bug in the SDK these companies used, because other games will not freeze up at all on the same machine that is prone to do this. An SDK bug would account for a lot of things. |
OK, that's settled then in some sort of way.
If ever my CDS from hdd (with no sound) will freeze, i will report it, otherwise we can assume the music IS the problem in some way at least with CDS.
Conflict Desert Storm (like all war games) are imho better played with no music so I certainly don't feel i miss the music.
-- edit --
Played Halo from hdd for an hour with music. No freezes here. Must be CDS in combi with music. As you said perhaps a big in SDK(?)
-- end edit --
Your repasting stuff i will keep for later reference:)
Post by: cONEction on October 15, 2002, 09:09:00 AM
So fuck that heat crap, 
i got those freezings with 2 games :
Simpsons and Dynasty warriors 3
Post by: THr on October 15, 2002, 09:37:00 AM
| QUOTE (cONEction @ Oct 15 2002, 03:09 PM) |
| Well i think the problem we are talking about is no a heat problem, this guy says that he has the problem with a couple of games, not all of them, so what u think, that a certain game makes ur xbox produce more heat? So fuck that heat crap, i got those freezings with 2 games : Simpsons and Dynasty warriors 3 |
I think a heavy 3d shooter will make the cpu/gpu work harder than a 'simple' puzzle game so yes, it depends on the game. So if a heavy 3d game would freeze but a puzzle game would not, then it could point to a kind of heat problem. (I had a faulty fan in my pc once. It froze Quake, but not Word. So there you go.) So not this time cause with you Simpson gives problems and Halo not.
Btw, we get insight by deduction. At first every cause is possible, now, seeing some games have probs, and others not, and with the music stuff in mind, we start to think its a bug. Good for me, i don't have to solve a non-existing heat problem:)
But, okay, YOU explain why it (CDS) works properly from DVD and not from HDD. What's the difference?? If i leave out the sound it works okay from HDD as well!? If the sound come from hdd it freezes, if the sound comes from dvd it doesn't freeze. There you have your puzzle.
(And after all, how could something freeze when it's hot:))
Post by: opjose on October 15, 2002, 09:37:00 AM
| QUOTE (cONEction @ Oct 15 2002, 03:09 PM) |
| Well i think the problem we are talking about is no a heat problem, this guy says that he has the problem with a couple of games, not all of them, so what u think, that a certain game makes ur xbox produce more heat? So fuck that heat crap, i got those freezings with 2 games : Simpsons and Dynasty warriors 3 |
No!
Read the damn posts next time will you?
HEAT PROBLEMS exacerbate SOUND/DMA xfer problems on the Xbox causing lockups. Especially certain units like yours!
Certain games are MORE AFFECTED by heat as a result.
Get it?
That is why my "background sound" trick works.
Post by: cONEction on October 17, 2002, 08:30:00 AM
| QUOTE (opjose @ Oct 15 2002, 04:37 PM) | ||
No! Read the damn posts next time will you? HEAT PROBLEMS exacerbate SOUND/DMA xfer problems on the Xbox causing lockups. Especially certain units like yours! Certain games are MORE AFFECTED by heat as a result. Get it? That is why my "background sound" trick works. |
just kidding
, but really the heat problem is really rare, it isnt the problem in most of the cases!
Post by: opjose on October 18, 2002, 02:02:00 AM
One last thing can cause games to freeze from the hard drive...
The directory names and depth.
I've found that with certain titles if you use a long directory name with spaces the games will freeze or refuse to play.
We've covered this before in other threads so I forgot to mention this again.
Keep those directory names SHORT just in case, 8 characters. Don't nest the directories more than you have to.
BTW:
DOA3, The Thing, WWF Raw all work properly from the hard drive.