Post by: spoone on May 24, 2013, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: Aldanga on May 24, 2013, 12:44:00 PM
This doesn't sound as draconian as what people were speculating, but I'm still not a huge fan of it.
Post by: DrDeath2099 on May 24, 2013, 01:02:00 PM
I had heard that Bruce Willis was trying to do something so that he could pass his music library from iTunes down to his kids when he dies because it was thousands of dollars worth of music. I'm curious if something like this will happen with gaming too.
Post by: wilgo45 on May 24, 2013, 02:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ May 24 2013, 01:44 PM) 
This is going to cause significant overhead for GameFly and Blockbuster, at least initially. I wonder if they'll even rent Xbox One games.
This doesn't sound as draconian as what people were speculating, but I'm still not a huge fan of it.
Aldanga .... quit being so sweet hearted.
It is Draconian.
Post by: Aldanga on May 24, 2013, 02:59:00 PM
I don't have an issue with the used game market dying if I can buy games at prices similar to Steam sales. PC used games are basically non-existent anymore. I don't hear very many people complaining about that because they can buy new games super cheap.
Post by: telo{+} on May 24, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ May 24 2013, 07:44 PM)
This is going to cause significant overhead for GameFly and Blockbuster, at least initially. I wonder if they'll even rent Xbox One games.
This doesn't sound as draconian as what people were speculating, but I'm still not a huge fan of it.
Gamefly is all I care about. Gamestop can suck it, but here is what I imagine happening...
Gamestop is going to have to suffer with less profit. The 100% on top of slightly questionable buy/sale values is most likely going to be replaced with more like 10-50% on top of a more set price. That's going to be interesting. Their first instinct is going to be to lower value of buys and increase value of sales, that's bad for the customer, but they're going to be kept in check by other outlets most likely.
Gamefly on the other hand... I'm guessing that either the developer makes nothing on a rental, or a much smaller percentage than a re-sale. They won't kill gamefly, but yea, you're probably right that margin will drop on their rentals of xbone games, they may move to tiered account that allows you to rent more expensive games. I imagine gamefly's subscription cost stays the same or slightly increases, I'll disagree with you on the significance on the amount I suppose.
My guess... and something I haven't seen speculated anywhere but that makes the most sense is that games themselves are going to be random serialized. Two things that MS will ensure:
1. There will be no hacking this go around. By randomly assigning each game a unique serial, MS will be able to ban console that attempt to play burnt games that are attempted but not on the legit codes list. You could clone a serial, but on first use it will tie to the account that used it, likely you could not guess a legit code. No amount of clever firmware hacks or optical drive emulation will help this.
2. This unique code system is how the re-sale system will work. Bring it in to Gamestop, they put it in a drive, they communicate to MS that removes that unique disc from a console. Mark my words - THERE WILL BE NO PAPER CODE in order to play your game.
Post by: ekruob on May 24, 2013, 06:37:00 PM
I.e. say someone owns a used - locked - copy of Halo 5.
They (or their friend) then go into the second-hand shop and purchase a used - unlocked - copy of the same game.
They return later with the receipt and their locked copy saying someone forgot to unlock it!
Unless each disc is visibly barcoded this scheme will fail (not to mention piss everyone off).
It's also worth pointing out that the registered/authorized used-game sellers (EB/Gamestop etc) will actually make far more profits as a result - purely because people cannot sell their games via eBay (unless eBay becomes an authorized intermediary - e.g. you ship your games to eBay and they unlock them and forward them onto your buyers).
Also means you can't share/sell games with friends and family - so sales will double (both for new games and used games).
I think Sony may cream MS this round if this process is one differentiator (quite possibly Sony and MS have colluded on the idea however).
P.S. I posted this very same concept (shops being involved with the locking of games to accounts) online a few months ago... would be totez hilarious if that's where they found the idea!
Post by: xmod4u on May 24, 2013, 06:45:00 PM
And the PS2 lasted all these years based on new sales you think...
Post by: wilgo45 on May 24, 2013, 08:04:00 PM
QUOTE(xmod4u @ May 24 2013, 07:45 PM)
Oh, and also, used sales did help developers indirectly BTW. No way did all these generations survived and got noticed on new sales alone. Many wont risk new IP's with a 60$ purchase... Thinking that anyone not finding a used title will force them to buy it new is sadly mistaken. I have customers that browse the used section only, looking for that bargain game, they wont change their habits for no one.
And the PS2 lasted all these years based on new sales you think...
xmod4u - good points, sir
Nice you see a truth in the matter.
During the time of Xbox One .... I will probably be a ps3 player. So I can game without silly ass hassles
Post by: ekruob on May 25, 2013, 11:09:00 PM
If I have 5 children each with an account then they would obviously be totally Fing dreaming (to use a colloquial Australian phrase) if they charged more than $100* for those 5 licenses!
* In Australia new games are generally $100 to $120.
and unless Sony colludes with them, then Microsoft would have shot themselves in the foot as it will be cheaper and easier to just buy a PS4 and all the games on it instead (more convenient without the need to unlock / only buy from authorized resellers).
Post by: Alex548 on May 26, 2013, 02:02:00 AM
It's a load of crap.
Try that in the auto industry.
Post by: fallenangle on May 26, 2013, 10:52:00 AM
Just where are we in the UK going to take our discs to trade in? Apart from the limit range at the supermarkets the only major specialist games retailers left on the high street shrunk their operation by 75% two years ago due to the recession. Many UK towns don't have anywhere selling new games within easy travelling distance any more.
The only way this could work here is all online with no physical media (the proposed scheme effectively makes physical media redundant anyway) and this means that the terms 'new' and 'used' are now meaningless.
We'll be selling our licence to play the games not the game itself at a price predetermined by MS. It is a fundamental change in the whole consumer/retailer relationship and I don't think MS have even thought about what the consequences of this could be.
It makes no sense to me; if the 'used' licence price is below the 'new' price everyone will be trying to buy their licence used. Why on earth would they do otherwise? A downloaded game isn't 'used' it is just the same as the one you buy at full price. This scheme may actually promote what MS is still calling the 'used' games market and they'll end up selling less 'new' games because of this.
Used licences will end up being the majority of the market but I doubt MS really care how it splits because setting the price for both they have monopoly control.
The law makers are far behind in legislating for consumer rights as regard their digital media. However this change could actually be the spur for them to act and even challenege the legality of what MS is proposing. Maybe this sort of trading practice is illegal under existing consumer laws in some countries already, I do hope so.
Post by: relaxxx on May 26, 2013, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: krayzie on May 26, 2013, 09:50:00 PM
Anyway I'm amazed how many peole drop into conclusion without any real concrete info and act like the whole world is falling apart. It's just a new device with new ways. Don't like it don't buy it
Post by: deilzfcjk on May 27, 2013, 02:17:00 AM
@Alex548
You know that certain collectors cars actually hold value and are worth more than blue book. Thereare certain niche enthusiast groups. just saying. But the trade-in value for the games on the xbox one are a little sketchy right now. So, I'll optimistically hold my breathe for now.
Post by: krayzie on May 27, 2013, 10:07:00 AM
QUOTE(ekruob @ May 27 2013, 04:02 PM)
I guess if they also allow a 7-day trial install then that would also allow the rental market to continue its existence.
THat said Krazie - the main problem here is that if I want to buy a game for my five kids to play (each obviously having a separate account) - I will make bomb threats against Redmond if they try to force me to pay for the game five times!
I think that goes for a LOT of families... gonna be a lot of bomb threats lol.
It was allready confirmed by MS there will be possibilities to reactivate the same disc to other acounts on a single console without extra cost
Post by: n3r0 on May 27, 2013, 10:46:00 AM
Post by: Alex548 on May 27, 2013, 03:00:00 PM
QUOTE(deilzfcjk @ May 27 2013, 01:17 AM)
well what if you rent a game from like redbox? how would that work? It's going to be really interesting months to come. lol.
@Alex548
You know that certain collectors cars actually hold value and are worth more than blue book. Thereare certain niche enthusiast groups. just saying. But the trade-in value for the games on the xbox one are a little sketchy right now. So, I'll optimistically hold my breathe for now.
... but every time that car gets resold, nobody gives a portion of that money to the manufacturer. Whether it's a classic car or a Yugo, the only time the manufacturer gets money is when they originally sold it to a dealer/customer.
Post by: krayzie on May 27, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
I don't hear people complaining they can only install the disc to one pc. It's just a way to protect the property. I just see the reactivation on other consoles as an extra service.A small fee would be in place.
Post by: Moonkeeper on May 28, 2013, 09:19:00 PM
This is the kind of DRM that invites every single hacker/modder out there to figure out a way to get around it. The PS3 went without being modded for years because the independent devs were satisfied. Linux was taken away and the PS3 cracked by the end of the year.
Post by: relaxxx on May 29, 2013, 08:49:00 AM
If this despicable system succeeds then there really is no cure for zombies. People paying for this @$$ raping system should at least try and understand they are buying nothing, they are paying for temporary access to an online server regulated service that is subject to change and will only operate and support for a finite period of time.
I can pull out an Atari or NES system out of my closet, pop in a game and be playing in seconds. In 30 years from now, how confident are you that MS will have servers in place to support online game activations for this system? MS stated this system will require a infrastructure with over 300 thousand servers. I can tell you right now there will be no plans to support a system like this 20 years after it becomes obsolete, it will be a brick because the encrypted flash firmware chip only has a listed data retention of 10 years. At least you'll be able to pull out a 60 year old NES and play Super Mario.
Post by: relaxxx on May 29, 2013, 10:09:00 AM
And my PC hardware is not locked and encrypted to only execute code from one online evil manipulative corporation. I would never buy hardware so crippled and pathetic. I'l never subscribe to live and have no interest in services like steam or onlive either.
Post by: relaxxx on May 29, 2013, 01:10:00 PM
Oh wait, I have two androids....
ROOTED!
Post by: krayzie on May 30, 2013, 11:02:00 AM
Anyway I was just trying to make a point that they need some form of protection against multiple use of the same disc and not to discuss who has what rights or what not.
Post by: Aldanga on May 30, 2013, 06:21:00 PM