Post by: PS3Scene on January 26, 2007, 10:20:00 PM
The Mysterious PS3 Hardware Scaler Exposed Posted by XanTium | 27-1-2007 0:13 EST |
| From beyond3d.com: Quote
Full Story: beyond3d.com |
Post by: Archalien on January 26, 2007, 09:49:00 PM
Post by: epsilon72 on January 26, 2007, 10:59:00 PM
QUOTE(Archalien @ Jan 26 2007, 09:49 PM) 
Still no Bluray in 720p though......??
It probably wouldn't be that hard to do - if Sony would just get around to doing it. I'm sure there's still plenty of processing power available for scaling when you're playing BD's, so even if this "hardware scaler" is really the RSX like some think it is, it wouldn't really hurt performance to use that to scale the picture.
Maybe it'll come in the march update, along with DVD upscaling?
Post by: mlmadmax on January 27, 2007, 11:14:00 AM
Also blue ray and hddvd require a lot of processing power. When playing a blue ray disk on the ps3 it draws more amperage than playing a game. There was also an article on the HD-DVD player for the 360 a while back and the dev stated it took all the power of the 360 to play an hddvd.
This is why a hardware scaler is important it takes a ton of stress off of the cpu and gpu and actually does a much better job than software.
This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Jan 27 2007, 07:16 PM
Post by: spinr34 on January 27, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: redwolf on January 27, 2007, 06:42:00 PM
Post by: incognegro on January 27, 2007, 09:10:00 PM
Post by: anonim1979 on January 28, 2007, 07:10:00 AM
CAN ANYBODY THIS DAY read with understanding?
-it's a horizontal *stretcher* ONLY
-REQUIRES ANAMORPHIC [squashed] picture to work [like this:]
(IMG:http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/anonim1979/oblivionanamorphicmaly2razem.jpg)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q262/an...cmaly2razem.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic
-only 3 resolution supported 960x1080 1440x1080 1600x1080
-at least 10% more costly than 720p
-REQUIES GAME ENGINES REWRITE to work with older and new titles
-ENGINE MUST have 2 DIFFERENT modes suported - for anamorphic output AND normal output [rest of resolutions]
-it works by doubling [for 960]/puting 1 extra pixel for every 3 pixels [1440]/puting 1 extra pixel for every 4 pixels [1600]
-WON'T WORK with PS1 / PS2 games
It does NOT upscale to 1080 - frame is already in 1080.
for example 960x1080
sending lines 1,2,3,4,itd from 1080
abcdefghijk....
abcdefghijk....
abcdefghijk....
abcdefghijk....
it simply addas pixels:
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkk....
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkk....
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkk....
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkk....
X360 scaler works in all directions, it's similar to analog knobs on CRT monitor stretching picture.
PS3 uses TRICK - uses probably changed timings in output - puting extra pixels
like somebody said it's a trick similar to that used on PS2:
QUOTE
Uh, isn't this the same thing that the PS2 did when it went into "16:9" mode in 480p? They didn't actually increase the output resolution... they just, umm, squished the image so that it looked correct on a 16:9 display. :|
This post has been edited by anonim1979: Jan 28 2007, 03:23 PM
Post by: redwolf on January 28, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
anyone remember this quote "Microsoft is trailing behind us, but they are not a threat. They are good at improving [on products], but we will be advancing to the next level with revolutionary technology."-- Ken Kutaragi
Post by: julesthejackal on January 28, 2007, 10:22:00 AM
If you only have 480p of "data" you are not going to get 1080i of "data" on your sceen.
All you will get is 480p stretch to 1080i (example). On a big sceen TV, the picture will look sharper.
Playing (for example only) Halo 2 on my xbox360 at 720p looks the same as it does at 1080i or even G.O.W.
but playing G.O.W at 480p does not look as sharp as it does at 720p/1080i.
For the PS3, all that scaler allows it to do is "stretch" a 720p to 1080i instead of going from 720p to 480p (on older HDTVs that do not support 720p)
The gave developers have to write a "patch" for this to happen (like Resistance:Fall of Man from Insomiac)
Only "half" of this scaler was exposed (from what I read) so who knows what other mysteries are under the PS3s cover.
A huge firmware update is schedule for March 2007 (at the European Lauch of the PS3) so maybe more of the features will be unleashed.
At the end of the day, this is good news for everyone who bought a PS3 and have an older HDTV.
I love my Xbox360 but I also own a PS3 so I not a fanboy of either, just a gamer.
The biggest threat that the PS3 has to the Xbox360 is that the Live service of it is free. ( mind you it sucks for now but can only improve with time since Sony is going gun-ho to match that of the Xbox-Live service). Mircosoft has to offer some kind of free service of its Xbox-Live or the Xbox360 will be doomed.
Post by: mlmadmax on January 28, 2007, 01:20:00 PM
This means any scaling is software based and will kill performance on any game for the ps3. If the programmers use the RSX for scaling they will have to take things away in other areas.
It would seem the PS3 is not powerfull enough to have motorstorm at 1080p scaled or not. If they could have scaled motorstorm to 1080p don't you think they would have?
And i would like to add these "insiders" at the avs forum were talking strait out of there ass, there is no hardware scaler, this has been confirmed by m_hail as well as people who took pictures of the motherboard, there is no chip on the motherboard for scaling!!!!
This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Jan 28 2007, 09:24 PM
Post by: ConteZero76 on January 28, 2007, 02:31:00 PM
Sony already "added" a feature at a later date, and the scaler can easily be embedded inside the GPU; we've to stop and wait to see what's going to happen, period.
Post by: thax on January 28, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
However there is way to solve this problem, simply use the PS2 chip now, then when you remove it replace it with an inexpensive scaler. The SDK would need to be aware of what chip is in the unit and handle the low level instructions to each chip operations appropriately.
Post by: mlmadmax on January 28, 2007, 07:22:00 PM
If there is some sort of hardware on the PS3 that can be used as a scaler it is not a hardware scaler it is a software scaler. Software must be written to make the hardware do soemething it was not desined for. Software scaling sucks and this is all the PS3 has it does not have a hardware scaler, and it should.
Post by: julesthejackal on January 28, 2007, 07:31:00 PM
To say the PS3 does not have a scaler after a few facts are released is ignorant.
A scaler is a scaler is a scaler.....just some do more than others.
A car is a car is a car.....just some are better than others.
Get it?
Post by: calderra on January 29, 2007, 06:18:00 AM
And yes, it's basically the exact same as what PS2 had- only this one can horizontally stretch as opposed to vertical squashing, which is again only useful for widescreen output (and maybe VGA?), and only for fixing up the display so you don't need "the black bars" on the sides. 360's Ana still reigns supreme.
And the post of the thread:
"It would seem the PS3 is not powerfull enough to have motorstorm at 1080p scaled or not. If they could have scaled motorstorm to 1080p don't you think they would have?"
And if you actually PLAY a lot of online games, Sony's online service is no threat at all. On 360, you have cross-game invites, unified friends lists, private chat to anyone anywhere anytime, etc, etc. As an EGM reviewer put it, "You have to actually call your freinds to organize a game" on Sony's network. Because if they're not online and on the exact same game as you, you can't message them.
Heck, on 360 (and I've done this), you could be playing Gears and see someone else online on some other game, invite them to chat, and stay in chat while they switch discs to join you in Co-op. Talk about badassness. Experiences like that are worth paying for.
Post by: thax on January 29, 2007, 09:26:00 AM
QUOTE(julesthejackal @ Jan 29 2007, 03:31 AM)
A scaler is a scaler is a scaler.....just some do more than others. A car is a car is a car.....just some are better than others. Get it?
A scaler that can't reduce image size at all and can only increase horizonal width is like having a car with one wheel. You need to be able to adjust size in all four ways for it to be a fully functional scaler.