Post by: PS3Scene on April 18, 2008, 10:36:00 PM
Kojima Disappointed With Metal Gear Solid 4 Posted by XanTium | 19-4-2008 0:00 EST |
| From kotaku.com: Quote
Full Story: kotaku.com |
Post by: BottleB on April 18, 2008, 11:01:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on April 18, 2008, 11:51:00 PM
... the mind boggles!
</scarcasm>
Post by: lmaolmao on April 19, 2008, 06:11:00 AM
actually, it's nice to hear something honest. and i don't think theres a machine out there that can handle any of Kojimas visions entirely.
Peter Molyneux and Will Wright are other ones who are perfectionists and have an unattainable vision. I think its the striving for the unattainable that makes their games the stand out ones, either because you love or hate them.
Post by: wassco on April 19, 2008, 09:28:00 AM
but it is interesting to hear what he has to say about his own creation... i for one still think its gonna be a good game, regardless!
Post by: Digital_sin on April 19, 2008, 11:41:00 AM
If "The Matrix" ever comes true and we all can "Jack ourselves" into the Matrix, I'm pretty sure Kojima would still say that It wasn't powerfull and real enough. Metal Gear Solid 5 is actually going to be a boxed package that includes a real gun, a silencer and a walkie talkie (codec) that you use to communicate directly with Kojima and get instructed to kill your girlfriend and your own twin brother, then break out of jail when they catch you using only a ketchup bottle (not included in the package). I think only then would Mr. Kojima be satisfied with the reality of his vision.
Post by: mlmadmax on April 19, 2008, 12:22:00 PM
I also don't get why he could't make the levels huge, isn't that just mostly space on the disk?
O well it's not like sony cares anymore, they won blu-ray and that is what matters to them.
Post by: Elemino on April 19, 2008, 08:39:00 PM
QUOTE(mlmadmax @ Apr 19 2008, 12:22 PM) 
O well it's not like sony cares anymore, they won blu-ray and that is what matters to them.
No kidding. 
Sounds to me like he doesn't know how to make his games run effeciently... at least that's what a programmer I know would say. If this game uses the system to it's fullest potential I hope it looks better than the awe inspiring CoD4 (does on the 360... I don't have the PS3 version). If it doesn't maybe he needs better programmers.
Post by: petercuello on April 20, 2008, 12:32:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on April 20, 2008, 12:36:00 AM
QUOTE(mlmadmax @ Apr 19 2008, 02:22 PM)
...I also don't get why he could't make the levels huge, isn't that just mostly space on the disk?...
Big levels has almost NOTHING to do with disc space and everything to do with how much system memory the console has as well as disc transfer speeds and available cache.
In the grand scheme of what's on the disc a "big level" will rarely take up more than a few hundred MB of disc space (yes that's with graphical models and textures supporting HD)... what makes or breaks the ability of the console is if the hardware can handle all of the level data at once and load new areas of that level at a fast enough speed to keep up with the gameplay as the player progresses through it.
you could have the biggest disk in the world but if you've got slow disc seek and transfer speeds and only a small amount of system memory then you'll be very much limited in the size of the levels you're able to create.
Think about it, If the level is say 900MB (which is substantially bigger than any level I've ever seen) and you've got 256MB of system memory, lets say 100MB of which is dedicated to supporting system tasks/the sound effects you hear no matter where you are and the graphical models for the enemies/vehicles/etc. that leaves 150ish for the level meaning that the console can only have 1/6th of the level loaded into memory at one time.
as you approach the boundary of that 1/6th the console needs to transfer the next section of the level off of the disc before you get there, otherwise the game will lock up while the next area loads. (if you've played half-life 2 you know what this is like)
If the disc seek and transfer times are too slow this becomes an impossibility because the console wont be able to load the next section fast enough, If you had more ram you would have to do this less frequently, since you could hold more of the level at one time. Having a hard drive to cache to helps as well since the game could predict where you were heading and start transferring some of that to the hard drive before you got there to make it a little quicker, but in general that's a poor substitute for memory unless it can afford to load the entire level to ram, but then you'd be dealing with load times several minutes long at the start of the level (assuming the disc transfer speed was bad enough to warrant that).
Large amounts of disc space is generally useless for a game unless you can access that data quickly and have places to put it once you've accessed it.
Post by: mlmadmax on April 20, 2008, 02:12:00 AM
Post by: Chancer on April 20, 2008, 04:18:00 AM
QUOTE(mlmadmax @ Apr 20 2008, 09:12 AM)
Thanks for the info twisted, i guess your explanation covers why i have to load five gigs of crap on the PS3 hardrive the first time I want to play a game.
You're exaggerating again. You sound so pissed off with your PS3 that I am not sure why you keep it.
A lot of games give you an option of loading data to the HDD. Lots don't load any on.
DMC 4 was the biggest I have had.
The load on is no big deal. It's a one time hit and the longest I have had took around 4 to 5 minutes.
In game play load times are not any different from the 360 from practical experience with the titles I have for both (Yes I am a sad old dickhead buying the same thing for both consoles0
I repeat again you exaggerating.
Your BR comment is without weight as well. That game is over so if you believe Sony will not care about games you are wrong. There are plenty of games for the PS3 and more in the pipeline. This is not a couldn't care less attitude by Sony, it is the perception of a disgruntled PS3 owner.
Honestly!! sell it you don't have a good word to say about it.
COD4 is awesome online on the PS3. Loads of players, No lag and straight into a game. I would say it ranks up with GOW on the 360.
I am not a first person man but this is so addictive.
I am just downloading the update to MGO 4 beta so will comment on what that is like soon.
Post by: mlmadmax on April 20, 2008, 01:21:00 PM
That shit sucks no matter how you slice it.
And your rebutle to my blu-ray comment has no weight either since you are guessing also, and I have repeatedly said it is a dam good blu-ray player so quit your hatin on me. It is just a shity games machine IMO and I am entitled to it.
This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Apr 20 2008, 08:23 PM
Post by: Chancer on April 20, 2008, 02:41:00 PM
QUOTE(mlmadmax @ Apr 20 2008, 08:21 PM)
Have you played gran tourismo yet, it is a 15 minute manditory install so no i am not exaggerating at all. And than after the install it needed an update that took another five minutes.
That shit sucks no matter how you slice it.
And your rebutle to my blu-ray comment has no weight either since you are guessing also, and I have repeatedly said it is a dam good blu-ray player so quit your hatin on me. It is just a shity games machine IMO and I am entitled to it.
Never liked GT in any form. Unrealistic car movement. Handling like shit etc. Not my cup of tea.. so no I haven't
HSG 3 minutes
PES2008 less than 2minutes
What I do know is and I repeat you exaggerated about the load times. You make it sound like every game has to load 5Gb to the drive and takes 15 minutes. Not true. If GT takes 15minutes ..So What! nobody ever bothered before in the Xbox days. In fact people bought huge HDDs and wanted to load every game to the drive. The benefits outweigh the initial load.
My comment carries plenty of weight. look at it logically Sony don't need to drive it from a BR point now. they are already driving it from the games angle. There are plenty of games and good ones at that, but maybe you only like Halo.. I don't know.
By your own admission you don't like the PS3 as a games machine, so why torture yourself. If it is a BC model it will bring you a good return.
Oh and it's nothing to do with "hatin" on anybody. It's reply and a very logical suggestion for someone who has not one good word to say about a machine they own.
I bought some extra games for the Wii and they were shit. Nothing I liked on it so I have now flogged it and moved on. I don't post in the Wii section how badly done to I have been over it.
Can't comment on MGO beta yet as the website to get the codes is gridlocked.
The creator may not be happy but the game is going to sell big style if this anything to judge by.
Post by: teknow on April 20, 2008, 09:13:00 PM
Linked Article
It is said basically to come down to read speeds and the static speed at which data can be read. There appears to be much political reasoning to the prior lack of discussion.
For the record I'm willing to deal with the installs and don't find them to be a significant irritant. I hope to see improvements in future future drives if that is possible. The true mitigating factor is the ability for relatively easy user replacement/upgrade of the hard drive that isn't in any way proprietary to the system.
I'm most happy with the PS3's media server capabilities, remote play through PS3, and upcoming title selection. No FPS fans are aware or seem to be mentioning HAZE? There is your Halo killer. Not that it should take very much... Halo only initially edged out other FPS by it's use of vehicles where other titles had not included them; I'm speaking here of FPS over all. I don't care to get into a debate on FPS on console alone, that would be a poor measure.
This post has been edited by teknow: Apr 21 2008, 04:17 AM
Post by: throwingks on April 20, 2008, 09:12:00 PM
QUOTE(teknow @ Apr 20 2008, 11:13 PM)
No FPS fans are aware or seem to be mentioning HAZE? There is your Halo killer.
Woah, Haze is my Halo killer for sure. I have said a billion times, I love Free Radical Design's games. But, they have gone head to head with Halo many times and lost. As much as I would like this time to be different, I doubt it will.
Post by: vinz on April 21, 2008, 11:12:00 AM
QUOTE(PandaExpress @ Apr 21 2008, 06:20 AM)
I wouldn't even mind if it took a day to install as long as I don't have to hear the drive spin like crazy non stop when playing, from all the 360 problems this annoys me the most.
See, for me, I very much dislike the installs. First of all, I only have the 40gb PS3. Which isn't enough, it's really sad to think there are 20gb owners out there. What happens when they own more than 10 games?
My main gripe with the installs isn't so much the space they take up though, it is that I like renting/borrowing games rather than buying. So I'm playing all sorts of different games for short periods of time. With so many different games it's just an inconvenience that gets to me after a while. I'd like to just play the game. I'm seeing a trend as we get better and better games, the installs get bigger and longer.
Post by: throwingks on April 21, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
QUOTE(vinz @ Apr 21 2008, 01:48 PM)
My main gripe with the installs isn't so much the space they take up though, it is that I like renting/borrowing games rather than buying. So I'm playing all sorts of different games for short periods of time. With so many different games it's just an inconvenience that gets to me after a while. I'd like to just play the game. I'm seeing a trend as we get better and better games, the installs get bigger and longer.
Can't you delete the install data and retain your save data? What's the big deal?Post by: Chancer on April 21, 2008, 04:26:00 PM
Post by: teknow on April 21, 2008, 10:33:00 PM
QUOTE(PincheAnimal @ Apr 21 2008, 07:37 PM)
Always flying in like Superman to the PS3's rescue.
The loads are an issue, it will only get worse as devs use up more of the space on the Disc. Right now devs use duplicate data as the alternative, as they start filling up the Disc this will be more of an issue. They either force the installs, or compromise the advantage Blue-Ray offers by filling it up with duplicate data. That's just bad engineering on Sony's part. Hey at least PS3's don't melt though.Not around here you're not. Seriously what's with all the PS3 fanboys, I thought this was supposed to be an Xbox site that also covered the PS3.
Haze is a little late, Call of Duty 4 was the Halo killer that everybody was waiting for. With less than half the hype, it managed to beat Halo in sales and player activity, it has better graphics and made a bigger jump from COD 2 (a current gen game) than Halo 3 did over Halo 2. Really what else do people want, killing Halo at this point is like beating a dead horse.
Having a positive view of the PS3 isn't a fault.
Loads will get better as developers learn how and take the time to better organize the data.
You are out of your depth in the realm of BlueRay disc capacity. If games ever approach 250gb (yes capacity can reach that size currently) developers would then be forced to find a more efficient approach to compression (yes, many if not all games compress) and it will never NEVER be an issue this generation. As it stands no amount of data duplication to increase read speeds will come anywhere near filling 1/4 of 250gb. Right now compression would not even be necessary.
If you don't want PS3 discussion, and this part is key, Stay out of the fucking PS3 boards... Christ.
COD2 is NOT current gen
Halo and COD4 are not compatible styles of game for FPS comparison... I could elaborate but it should be obvious enough. Haze isn't late though we have yet to see what it will actually offer upon release.
Post by: Chancer on April 22, 2008, 03:25:00 AM
QUOTE(PincheAnimal @ Apr 22 2008, 12:37 AM)
Always flying in like Superman to the PS3's rescue.
The loads are an issue, it will only get worse as devs use up more of the space on the Disc. Right now devs use duplicate data as the alternative, as they start filling up the Disc this will be more of an issue. They either force the installs, or compromise the advantage Blue-Ray offers by filling it up with duplicate data. That's just bad engineering on Sony's part. Hey at least PS3's don't melt though.Not around here you're not. Seriously what's with all the PS3 fanboys, I thought this was supposed to be an Xbox site that also covered the PS3.
Haze is a little late, Call of Duty 4 was the Halo killer that everybody was waiting for. With less than half the hype, it managed to beat Halo in sales and player activity, it has better graphics and made a bigger jump from COD 2 (a current gen game) than Halo 3 did over Halo 2. Really what else do people want, killing Halo at this point is like beating a dead horse.
The PS3 doesn't need rescuing. Mine is just fine. I don't object to stuff on the HDD... In fact I would love to be able to load full games on to it (like the old Xbox). As for filling up BR discs, please take the time to google and read on actual data throughput as opposed to spin speeds of the various types of drive.
Tell me you wouldn't like to be able to load games on the 360 (Full games and play them straight from HDD) I would love the feature on both.
You thought this was a Xbox site?? It is but you may have not realised, that you are trolling in the PS3 section.
Here you go with your "fanboy" stuff again. Proof of concept (see my reply in the other thread). Somebody liking something does not immediately mean they hate the rival product or make them some kind of low life for admitting it. Once more a case of you not reading my posts. If you had you would see what I dislike about the PS3 and indeed like and dislike about the 360 and the Wii.
One thing for certain. the things I post in here are based on My actual experience of long term ownership of the consoles in question not some insecure reaction based on internet here say or gossip between friends. You may not agree with it and feel free to say so, but if my experience of the machine in question is different, don't expect some pansy response simply agreeing with you, especially if you don't even own the console you are posting about.
One thing never to mention in a debate about pros and cons of a console is the quality of the engineering, if you are comparing 360 to PS3...or don't you read the proven figures or any of the other posts on that angle either?
Post by: Nosf3ratu on April 23, 2008, 06:21:00 AM
QUOTE
We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually.
Anyways. I agree with what Elemino said. It seems like the game just wasn't programmed efficiently. How could he have possible squeezed out everything he could with the Cell, especially this early on in the PS3's lifecycle? I seriously don't believe Kojima has used the PS3 to its full potential.
That being said, I can't wait for this f'in game to come out. I wonder how big the install will be?
Post by: Kr0n1k on April 28, 2008, 08:06:00 PM
Post by: Chancer on April 29, 2008, 02:58:00 AM
Post by: grim_d on April 30, 2008, 04:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Apr 29 2008, 10:34 AM)
Looks fine for a Beta. What exactly is Muddy and Blurry. I don't see it. Mind you I may be too busy trying to kill someone with no gun. I have lost the habit.
he might be talking about the environment textures, from the screens ive seen they look pretty muddy, especially if snake is next to them, such a high detail character next to a muddy texture wall.
however having not played the beta i cant accuratly comment what it's like in game.
to kill someone without a gun dont you have to sneak up behind them, grab them and then have a seizure until their neck breaks? that was the way it used to work.
Post by: Chancer on April 30, 2008, 09:49:00 AM
QUOTE(grim_d @ Apr 30 2008, 12:05 PM)
he might be talking about the environment textures, from the screens ive seen they look pretty muddy, especially if snake is next to them, such a high detail character next to a muddy texture wall.
however having not played the beta i cant accuratly comment what it's like in game.
to kill someone without a gun dont you have to sneak up behind them, grab them and then have a seizure until their neck breaks? that was the way it used to work.
You can actually choose no guns. I am seriously bad without a gun, but it makes it a little different. You can use a knife.