Post by: Pheidias on January 17, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
I'm just wondering how the hell they are gonna do this. Not even that many top of the line pc's can handle oblivion with HDR and AA at 1080p.
Are we gonna see less then 15fps outdoors...
quote
"One of the biggest, most ambitious role-playing games of the year comes to the PlayStation 3 with full 1080p HD support and the all-new sidequest, "Knights of the Nine."" they also claim knights of the nine is exlusive content, Which can't be true either..
Post by: incognegro on January 17, 2007, 02:30:00 PM
I do expect the textures to be toned down a bit compared to the 360 as result though and some lower poly counts. we'll see...
This post has been edited by incognegro: Jan 17 2007, 10:31 PM
Post by: Marrvia on January 17, 2007, 02:33:00 PM
Post by: Foe-hammer on January 17, 2007, 04:11:00 PM
QUOTE(Marrvia @ Jan 17 2007, 02:04 PM) 
PS3 is "supposed" to be better than any high end PC right now, and Oblivion will likely be optimized for PS3, so 1080p should be possible.
Come again?
Post by: epsilon72 on January 17, 2007, 05:16:00 PM
This post has been edited by epsilon72: Jan 18 2007, 01:20 AM
Post by: Mr Invader on January 17, 2007, 06:55:00 PM
Am i anywhere near right?
Post by: incognegro on January 18, 2007, 05:27:00 AM
QUOTE(epsilon72 @ Jan 18 2007, 12:47 AM)
My 7800GTX (similar to the RSX) can only pull about 10-15 frames per second at 1080p (outside). When an enemy comes onscreen it drops to about 7 fps (and that's with default settings and NO AA with HDR on). There's no way they'll make 1080p doable without reducing texture/model quality by a HUGE amount.
ummm yea, now take ur card and put a cell processor with it to release alot of pressure off of the card then have the developer rebuild the engine for ur card specifically (not slow ass mid range cards) and if it still can't do 1080p at atleast 30 fps then u'll have an argument.
Post by: KAGE360 on January 18, 2007, 08:34:00 AM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Jan 17 2007, 04:01 PM)
They way I see it is, the devs might be shooting for 1080p but who knows if that will happen. IMO its not that far fetched, I think both the 360 and ps3 is capable of doing this at an acceptable frame rate but it depends on the devs knowlegde of the hardware.
I do expect the textures to be toned down a bit compared to the 360 as result though and some lower poly counts. we'll see...
its a pipe-dream, can the ps3 and 360 do 1080p? sure. however not on a game with the size and detail of oblivion.
QUOTE(epsilon72 @ Jan 17 2007, 06:47 PM)
My 7800GTX (similar to the RSX) can only pull about 10-15 frames per second at 1080p (outside). When an enemy comes onscreen it drops to about 7 fps (and that's with default settings and NO AA with HDR on). There's no way they'll make 1080p doable without reducing texture/model quality by a HUGE amount.
your 7800GTX also has a 256-bit bus for memory bandwidth where the RSX is crippled with a 128-bit bus.
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Jan 17 2007, 08:26 PM)
Just because it can be displayed in 1080p doesn't mean that it is TRUE 1080p. The 360 can display Oblivion in 1080p using the scaler thing that it has (notice how technical i'm being), perhaps Oblivion for the PS3 probably is being upscaled since the PS3 itself does't have the capability.
Am i anywhere near right?
sorry i dont think so, the ps3 doesnt have any scaling capabilities so whatever resolution it is, it cant be faked.
QUOTE(incognegro @ Jan 18 2007, 07:34 AM)
ummm yea, now take ur card and put a cell processor with it to release alot of pressure off of the card then have the developer rebuild the engine for ur card specifically (not slow ass mid range cards) and if it still can't do 1080p at atleast 30 fps then u'll have an argument.
the Cell does the same functions as any other CPU. the engine also isnt being rebuilt for the Cell, just optimized/ported.
this isnt going to happen, especially if they wish to include any kind of AA or HDR (which the pics seem to lack so far)
Post by: Foe-hammer on January 19, 2007, 10:39:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Jan 18 2007, 08:41 AM)
sorry i dont think so, the ps3 doesnt have any scaling capabilities so whatever resolution it is, it cant be faked.
Isn't it possible to initially rende/make a game lower resolutions (NES games were below 640x480, but they displayed on my TV just fine at the res), and have it output at another without a video scaler?
Post by: incognegro on January 19, 2007, 12:30:00 PM
QUOTE
the Cell does the same functions as any other CPU. the engine also isnt being rebuilt for the Cell, just optimized/ported.
this isnt going to happen, especially if they wish to include any kind of AA or HDR (which the pics seem to lack so far)
this isnt going to happen, especially if they wish to include any kind of AA or HDR (which the pics seem to lack so far)
I didnt say rebuild it for the cell, I said for the (graphics) card. I know it isn't being rebuilt but if it WAS being rebuilt to cater to the ps3 architecure alot more then I feel 1080p at 30fps is possible, same for the 360. Its a cross platform game, no doubt about it so i don't expect optimization to be top notch, just enough to get it running properly on the hardware.
Post by: VariableElite on January 19, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Jan 19 2007, 11:46 AM)
Isn't it possible to initially rende/make a game lower resolutions (NES games were below 640x480, but they displayed on my TV just fine at the res), and have it output at another without a video scaler?
You still need a video scaler of some kind. As the PS3 has no (dev-accessible) hardware scaler, any such upscaling must be done by the software. Technically, I'd imagine that upscaling a 3d image from a lower resolution uses less processing power than just rendering the image at the higher resolution, but you don't gain as much from the upscaling as you do from the rendering. (This was the complaint for PGR3, THP8, Cod3, and one other game recently released that I can't remember -- that although it natively outputted video at 720p, it wasn't rendered at 720p, resulting in poorer image quality.)
IIRC, the NES's graphics subsystem handled conversion of the output image, converting everything into NTSC, which had a predefined resolution and refresh rate.
Basically, to answer your question, you still need a scaler of some type. I'm sure people with more technical knowledge in this area can explain it better, but I think I got the basics right for you.
Post by: KAGE360 on January 19, 2007, 01:59:00 PM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Jan 19 2007, 12:46 PM)
Isn't it possible to initially rende/make a game lower resolutions (NES games were below 640x480, but they displayed on my TV just fine at the res), and have it output at another without a video scaler?
variable basically answered how i was going to
all i can say is that i would imagine any performance gained from natively rendering at a lower resolution would be lost during the upscaling process and the resources required for that. so its a lose lose situation AFAIK
QUOTE(incognegro @ Jan 19 2007, 02:01 PM)
I didnt say rebuild it for the cell, I said for the (graphics) card. I know it isn't being rebuilt but if it WAS being rebuilt to cater to the ps3 architecure alot more then I feel 1080p at 30fps is possible, same for the 360. Its a cross platform game, no doubt about it so i don't expect optimization to be top notch, just enough to get it running properly on the hardware.
oh sorry i didnt understand what you meant.
even after further thought though, i still cant agree. sure it may be possible with enough time and optimization but at what cost? At it's current state in quality i dont see how oblivion (or any other similar game) is possible in 1080p, if you were to drop the quality of a lot of graphical aspects (no AA, HDR, AF) then maybe it can be done. however is it worth it? you would have a really sharp image of a crap landscape. i remember when Enter the Maxtrix was released on the xbox and announced at 1080i, what resulted from that was the ability to see all the graphical flaws and how ugly the game really was.
Post by: mlmadmax on January 19, 2007, 07:55:00 PM
This post has been edited by mlmadmax: Jan 20 2007, 03:58 AM
Post by: Pheidias on January 20, 2007, 03:20:00 AM
Post by: Zoneout on January 26, 2007, 10:27:00 AM
Post by: mlmadmax on January 26, 2007, 04:47:00 PM
So i will believe 1080p when i see it.
Post by: incognegro on January 30, 2007, 04:09:00 PM
QUOTE(mlmadmax @ Jan 27 2007, 12:54 AM)
It can already run at it's "full" potential. It just takes a lot of money to do it. My point was at 1920 by 1200 it is hard to keep oblivion at 40 frames per second on a very high end computer. It still looks great and is stutter free but there is no way the ps3 can keep up with a six to ten thousand doller rig.
So i will believe 1080p when i see it.
still that comparison is unfair as console games are better optimized for their hardware than PC games.
Post by: pungent on February 03, 2007, 10:35:00 PM
QUOTE(epsilon72 @ Jan 17 2007, 06:47 PM) 
My 7800GTX (similar to the RSX) can only pull about 10-15 frames per second at 1080p (outside). When an enemy comes onscreen it drops to about 7 fps (and that's with default settings and NO AA with HDR on). There's no way they'll make 1080p doable without reducing texture/model quality by a HUGE amount.
I bet your computer doesn't have a cell chip!
If all 7 spe's are utilized I don't see why it wouldn't have atleast 30 fps at 1080P.
Post by: Mr Invader on February 04, 2007, 03:20:00 PM
QUOTE(pungent @ Feb 3 2007, 11:06 PM)
I bet your computer doesn't have a cell chip!
If all 7 spe's are utilized I don't see why it wouldn't have atleast 30 fps at 1080P.
Yeah cuz everyone knows how powerful those SPE's are....
(IMG:http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/617/617951/microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041725628.jpg)
(IMG:http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/617/617951/microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041731425.jpg)
Post by: epsilon72 on February 04, 2007, 05:45:00 PM
QUOTE(pungent @ Feb 3 2007, 10:06 PM)
I bet your computer doesn't have a cell chip!
If all 7 spe's are utilized I don't see why it wouldn't have atleast 30 fps at 1080P.
Yeah, since the Cell is used for graphics anyway... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
...and if it may be possible to somehow use SPE's to help the RSX, I highly doubt the Bethesda team working on porting the game is doing anything with that. They have too much on their hands trying to fix the loading problems.
This post has been edited by epsilon72: Feb 5 2007, 01:47 AM
Post by: Foe-hammer on February 05, 2007, 08:04:00 PM
QUOTE(pungent @ Feb 3 2007, 10:06 PM)
I bet your computer doesn't have a cell chip!
If all 7 spe's are utilized I don't see why it wouldn't have atleast 30 fps at 1080P.
Post by: Thraxen on February 06, 2007, 12:17:00 AM
This post has been edited by Thraxen: Feb 6 2007, 06:15 PM
Post by: Suckerpunch on February 07, 2007, 04:39:00 AM
Good news for the ps3 version, better load times and better visuals are apparently coming.
And best news are
"Similarly, the amount of framerate drops or hitches that cropped up in the wilderness as you accessed a new area on the 360 have been substantially reduced on the PS3 version. There is a plan to completely eradicate these issues as the game nears release, as well as fixing a number of bugs that were present in the other builds. Kiss the item duplication glitch goodbye."
Post by: incognegro on February 07, 2007, 05:35:00 AM
Post by: msr on February 07, 2007, 06:41:00 AM
QUOTE(Marrvia @ Jan 17 2007, 09:04 PM)
PS3 is "supposed" to be better than any high end PC right now, and Oblivion will likely be optimized for PS3, so 1080p should be possible.
i thought this has been discussed loads of times, and the people on this board came to the conclussion that the bandwidth issues for true 1080p game, is not possible on ps3 hardware.
i am sure this board has gone over it loads of times.
Post by: epsilon72 on February 07, 2007, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: KAGE360 on February 08, 2007, 09:58:00 AM
QUOTE(pungent @ Feb 4 2007, 12:06 AM)
I bet your computer doesn't have a cell chip!
If all 7 spe's are utilized I don't see why it wouldn't have atleast 30 fps at 1080P.
yes, too bad devs dont have 7 SPEs to use
QUOTE(Suckerpunch @ Feb 7 2007, 06:46 AM)
http://ps3.ign.com/a...2/762108p1.html
Good news for the ps3 version, better load times and better visuals are apparently coming.
And best news are
"Similarly, the amount of framerate drops or hitches that cropped up in the wilderness as you accessed a new area on the 360 have been substantially reduced on the PS3 version. There is a plan to completely eradicate these issues as the game nears release, as well as fixing a number of bugs that were present in the other builds. Kiss the item duplication glitch goodbye."
bethesda have improved their shader engines dramatically since the game's original release. it was also mentioned that the 360 version will benefit from this improved rendering, although im not sure if that has to do with the entire game or just the expansion pack.
no matter what the end result may be, i'll stick with the 360 version since the ps3 version will not be recieving all of the DL content that PC and 360 owners enjoy.
Post by: Mr Invader on February 08, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 8 2007, 11:05 AM)
no matter what the end result may be, i'll stick with the 360 version since the ps3 version will not be recieving all of the DL content that PC and 360 owners enjoy.
I thought the PS3 version was going to have all the content up to "the knights of the nine" on the disc already
Post by: KAGE360 on February 09, 2007, 08:01:00 AM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Feb 8 2007, 05:50 PM)
I thought the PS3 version was going to have all the content up to "the knights of the nine" on the disc already
no apparently there is an issue where they cant fit all of the DL content in the game. it was thought to be because of a memory limitation.
they mention it on the newest episode at 1up.com.
Post by: epsilon72 on February 11, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 9 2007, 08:08 AM)
no apparently there is an issue where they cant fit all of the DL content in the game. it was thought to be because of a memory limitation.
they mention it on the newest episode at 1up.com.
Read this.
Post by: mlmadmax on February 11, 2007, 11:18:00 AM
QUOTE
In fact, the other reason why the downloadable content for the PS3 version of the game isn't included isn't solely because of the technical limitations of the system.
Listen to how he words this, a person could take that as there are limitations with the hardware but there is also more to it. I think this is the case and he is wording it so he doesn't piss of sony.