Post by: Speed1000 on October 10, 2006, 03:06:00 AM
I really think this is total bull!!!
Anyway can anyone give more light or half truths on this matter
Post by: Pikkon on October 10, 2006, 03:20:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 10, 2006, 06:27:00 AM
http://games.slashdo...06/07/12/193225
http://games.slashdo...5/11/09/1827211
http://games.slashdo...6/05/24/1854252
There was a big stink about it when the Patent was filed and Sony went on the record saying that even thought they patented the tech they didn't plan on using it any time soon...
http://games.slashdo...6/05/26/1730217
It works a little different then your friend at the game store described but it is a REAL technology which Sony owns the rights to.
Sony tends to change their mind on things and features quite often, so it could very well make it's way to the PS3... maybe not.
definitly not BS though.
Post by: throwingks on October 10, 2006, 06:46:00 AM
Post by: m_hael on October 10, 2006, 08:31:00 AM
It seems to have been forget that when you buy software you're buying the rights to USE the software, not the media its contained on. Thus the reason backups are allowed if you own the original media.
To change the media to work only on one console would essentially mean you DON'T own the software but in fact own the media.... thats a paradigm shift that will take a LONG time to get through legislation.
it would however fix a LOT of problems with the industry right now... such as rentals.... good the consumer, extremely bad for the developer & publisher as there is NO revenue feedback involved.
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 10, 2006, 09:13:00 AM
I believe the scenario you described only falls under Computer software where the disc is used for installation and you have licenses and license keys which you can purchase without actually receiving additional media. Also with computer software the physical media is typically useless without a license key, and the software companies will more often then not send out as many new discs as you like as long as you own a license.
IANAL but the way I've come to interpret it is that CDs, DVDs, Video Games etc. since they do not have a License Agreement that the consumer signs, or even virtually agrees to, that consumers are actually buying the physical media. This is further re-enforced by the fact that most companies will refuse to replace damaged discs or allow you to obtain the same software in a different format since you already own the license.
Legally the whole situation is rather nebulous.
It seems to me that the RIAA, MPAA, and to a less extent the ESA want to treat it like a license when it works to their benefit, and at the same time they want to treat it like a physical product when THAT works to their benefit. Not to mention that you can't make legally binding contracts with people under the age of 18. If purchasing CDs, DVDs, or console games are actually purchasing licenses to use the content, then it would also require the consent of a legal parent or guardian for all purchases to be legal, most EULAs on computers have that text in them regardless as to whether or not people follow them.
Using the analogy of a car... if you buy a Chevy car as a physical product from GM you can take it home and tear it apart, attempt to machine duplicate parts and build your own car, better yet you could use both of them to drive around your land and do whatever you want with it. But if the car breaks, it's your own damn fault because you bought the car it's your own responsibility.
if you buy a license or "right" to drive a Chevy car from GM they can setup boundaries that say you can't duplicate that car, and you can't drive it around your own property unless certain conditions are met, etc. But if the car stops working GM should replace the car, because you would still own the right to drive one. If it broken under terms of acceptable use GM should replace it free of charge, if it broke because of your own fault, you should be able to pay GM for the damages to the car but still get it replaced.
Purchased disc media works like neither of these situations.
I'm not entirely sure there's really a "system" to change but looking at the way it's treated it certainly leans more towards the purchase of a physical item as opposed to a license.
-if the disc breaks you will not receive a replacement and must purchase it again
-there is no contract signed or agreed to
-minors are able to purchase them
-you can buy / sell /rent used discs (AFAIK none of that is legal with licensed content)
About the only thing that DOESN'T make sense is that they want to control how you can use the media once it has been purchased. This does not fall in line with the legalities of a purchased item, but instead that of a licensed one.
So again, I believe there is no clear cut laws on where these things fit, and it seems to me that Association-X wants to treat it like one type of purchase or another depending on what fits their legal needs at the time.
Post by: Mr Invader on October 10, 2006, 02:39:00 PM
A great deal of money is going to be lost if Sony decides (we wont know until launch most likely) to follow through with this technology
Just think. What if HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies were the same? Alot of money is to be lost and people wouldn't be as satisfied
Post by: m_hael on October 10, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 10 2006, 08:20 AM) 
-if the disc breaks you will not receive a replacement and must purchase it again
this is NOT true... if the disk breaks the publisher is LEGALLY bound to provide a new disk. This is the same for CD's & DVD's too.
this may be a difference between UK law and US law (I used to live in the UK) but I know its a fact in the UK as I used it MANY times... (20+) for various CD's & DVD's.
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 10, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
There have been a couple anime publishers that were kind and replaced my discs, but I've never had it happen with video game or cds, or any American DVDs.
Actually I bought a GOTY edition of COD2 a short while ago. I already owned the regular edition and I was buying it purely for the bonus disc (I collect special edition games) There is only 2 stores within 30 miles of where I live that carry games, and only one of them had the GOTY edition, I managed to snag the last one they had only to find that the bonus disc was cracked. Since the store didn't have any more I couldn't get a new one. They would only offer me store credit since the item had already been opened. Also being a limited edition neither I nor the store were clear as to if they'd be receiving any more copies of the game. So I emailed Activision explaining all of this and this is the response I got:
QUOTE
Response (**************) - 08/14/2006 12:09 PM
Thank you for contacting us. Sorry we do not have the bonus discs as they are only placed at manufacturing. You may want to see when they would get another shipment or try purchasing the game from another retailer after returning your copy. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Thank you for contacting us. Sorry we do not have the bonus discs as they are only placed at manufacturing. You may want to see when they would get another shipment or try purchasing the game from another retailer after returning your copy. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.
oh so helpful they were... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) But the response is typical to the many time I've tried for broken media in the past. I could give you other examples but I figure you'd appreciate that particular one.
Being that I typically buy limited or collectors editions and that there really aren't any Best Buys or even EBgames reasonably close to my location it's not uncommon for me to be stuck with a disc that the store no longer has any stock of. Those mom and pop shops are lucky to stock 5 copies of a LE or CE total nevermind at all. It's usually beneficial for me to at least TRY to contact the publisher before making the trek to a more populated area with a few more options available. The worst though is when I'm out of town and pick up some new stuff only to get home and find something not right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Post by: Speed1000 on October 11, 2006, 12:04:00 AM
Talking about game security I was reading that there is another security system called game fade. This security works when the game has been backed-up which copies the Scratch error which is imbedded in the disk surface. It then corrupts the game over time causing the features like aiming, game saving ability to become impaired and unplayable over a short period of time. The ideology behind this system is that it allows the player to become addicted to the game and once the game becomes unplayable they will go out a purchase a legit copy.
Post by: redwolf on October 11, 2006, 05:38:00 AM
QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 10 2006, 10:21 PM)
this is NOT true... if the disk breaks the publisher is LEGALLY bound to provide a new disk. This is the same for CD's & DVD's too.
this may be a difference between UK law and US law (I used to live in the UK) but I know its a fact in the UK as I used it MANY times... (20+) for various CD's & DVD's.
if i want to sell it, all i do is phone Sony and say my disc broke, they send me replacement
Post by: silentbob343 on October 11, 2006, 02:02:00 PM
This post has been edited by silentbob343: Oct 11 2006, 09:08 PM