Post by: redwolf on September 12, 2006, 02:14:00 PM
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=541966
now they giving reason as why...
QUOTE
Part of the reason for the game's vast storage requirements, which are over three times what the largest Xbox 360 game can handle, are due to the game's massive, detailed-packed environments. Price explains that many levels and sub-levels take up over 300 megs each, even after compression. Price expects over 40 "different large loaded areas" on the final disc, between the game's single-player campaign and multiplayer arenas.
read full here
Post by: redwolf on September 12, 2006, 02:33:00 PM
QUOTE(Storm28 @ Sep 12 2006, 09:27 PM) 
Did you see the next paragraph?:
Since the disks are region free, they are putting everything on one disk. So that means multiple versions of the same video and audio. No wonder it's taking 22G.
yeah i read it.... but 300megs per level? even if you compress (if not compressed already) it to 50%, thats like a total of 6gigs just the levels
Post by: Kira Yamoto on September 12, 2006, 03:13:00 PM
This is what some, or most Xbox games did and I'm glad that they're doing this for PS3 as its gonna speed up the release date for our fellow European gamers. Heck, they might even get some games FIRST. Hopefully this trend will continue with other companies, so that we may never have to import again, or if we do import, we can play it in our language.
Sony told us that the extra space would give us feature packed games and Resistance looks to be one of the 1st to set an example. That's what I call a great use of space. Just the multi-reigon thing alone enables quicker releases all across the world. That in itself is a revolution in the gaming marketplace. How would stuff like this NOT be good news?
Post by: Mr Invader on September 12, 2006, 04:27:00 PM
Does it look good? yes
Does it look absolutely amazing and flawlessly beautiful? no
Does it look like fun? yes
Is it anything that Halo 3 can't handle? HELL NO
Post by: incognegro on September 12, 2006, 04:55:00 PM
"give a thirsty man a glass of water and he would savor it; but give that man a river and he would waste it"
anyways I like this game and I hope it turns out good, the ps3 NEEDS this game at launch.
QUOTE
That in itself is a revolution in the gaming marketplace
No its been done many times before. I must admit though that its definitely not a bad idea.
By the way...Insomniac ROXX!!!
I remember when they did games like "disruptor" and "one" for the PSone. They were definitely slept-on.
Post by: Foe-hammer on September 12, 2006, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: incognegro on September 12, 2006, 07:37:00 PM
QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Sep 13 2006, 02:16 AM)
First of all, all this is a BR/ps3 marketing ploy. If anyone doesn't beleive this then you need to ask yourself, why is sony/insomniac advertising the games data size to begin with? There's your answer.
I'm aware of this hence my reason for the "is anybody really believing this" comment. Of course your gonna hear first parties talking this way but not third parties. Because those companies have invested interest in the console while the others only care for profit.
Post by: Mr Invader on September 12, 2006, 08:22:00 PM
QUOTE
The Size Growth of the Xbox
Average for 2001: 1.81 gigs (21% of disc)
Average for 2002: 2.17 gigs (25% of disc)
Average for 2003: 2.47 gigs (29% of disc)
Average for 2005: 3.20 gigs (37% of disc)
Xbox 360 sample launch titles sizes
Condemned: 3.9 GB
Madden 06 NFL: 3.3 GB
Dead or Alive 4: 5 GB
NBA 06: 4.5 GB
Average for 2001: 1.81 gigs (21% of disc)
Average for 2002: 2.17 gigs (25% of disc)
Average for 2003: 2.47 gigs (29% of disc)
Average for 2005: 3.20 gigs (37% of disc)
Xbox 360 sample launch titles sizes
Condemned: 3.9 GB
Madden 06 NFL: 3.3 GB
Dead or Alive 4: 5 GB
NBA 06: 4.5 GB
http://www.joystiq.c...t-game-storage/
QUOTE
In fact, as programmers optimize code, it's not uncommon for programs to shrink. The original MechAssualt was 3.42 gigabytes, but MechAssualt 2 was only 2.29, a nearly 33% reduction in size. Yet MechAssualt II is considered a better looking game. Grand Theft Auto III is a paltry 733 megabytes, compared to Grand Theft Auto Vice City's still paltry 1.2 gigs. Silent Hill 2 clocked in at 4.88 gigs. It's sequel, Silent Hill 4, is only 3.16 gigabytes.
http://gamesfirst.com/?id=1132
DVD9 = GOOD
Blu-ray = Not BAD, but not GOOD
Post by: bucko on September 13, 2006, 02:50:00 AM
Post by: Kira Yamoto on September 13, 2006, 03:30:00 AM
QUOTE
No its been done many times before. I must admit though that its definitely not a bad idea.
I know it's been done before, I don't know about 'many' but I know that it has been. The issue is that not all companies take advantage of it, and even on PS3, only Resistance is reported to be doing that. I'm just saying that if more companies took advantage of it, and the fact that they can't really complain about space anymore since Resistance will prove that you can do an all in one package for all reigons.
QUOTE
First of all, all this is a BR/ps3 marketing ploy. If anyone doesn't beleive this then you need to ask yourself, why is sony/insomniac advertising the games data size to begin with? There's your answer.
Because it's a common question among gamers and critics alike. Look at this forum post and youll instantly see topics that relate in some way towards BluRay and/or it's capacity. We're talking about it RIGHT NOW. It's one of THE MOST criticized piece of hardware in the PS3 and I doubt that anybody would disagree with me on that.
Honestly, just even revealing this info is going too far, and I for one appreciate that he answered one of the most asked questions on boards everywhere.
Post by: NicoBech on September 13, 2006, 03:58:00 AM
Post by: incognegro on September 13, 2006, 03:59:00 AM
QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 13 2006, 10:37 AM)
I know it's been done before, I don't know about 'many' but I know that it has been. The issue is that not all companies take advantage of it, and even on PS3, only Resistance is reported to be doing that. I'm just saying that if more companies took advantage of it, and the fact that they can't really complain about space anymore since Resistance will prove that you can do an all in one package for all reigons.
Because it's a common question among gamers and critics alike. Look at this forum post and youll instantly see topics that relate in some way towards BluRay and/or it's capacity. We're talking about it RIGHT NOW. It's one of THE MOST criticized piece of hardware in the PS3 and I doubt that anybody would disagree with me on that.
Honestly, just even revealing this info is going too far, and I for one appreciate that he answered one of the most asked questions on boards everywhere.
I just think they are trying to make excuses.
Post by: redwolf on September 13, 2006, 05:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 13 2006, 10:37 AM)
and the fact that they can't really complain about space anymore since Resistance will prove that you can do an all in one package for all reigons.
there are reason why we have region code. most obvious are (same as films etc.) are currency differences, why would anyone buy a UK game for £50 when they can order it from Asia, pay half the amount inc. delivery. plus get away paying government tax.
other reason that, it takes time to have all the languages in one, different tv format, which can cause delays world wide, plus each countries have to review and age rate the game when it get to licence. blah...blah.
Post by: KAGE360 on September 13, 2006, 07:06:00 AM
QUOTE(NicoBech @ Sep 13 2006, 06:05 AM)
Are the BD-ROM drive in PS3 able to read dual-layer or only single layer BD-discs?
that is something i have been wondering as well. they are taking diods from current blue-ray players (or what would have been blue-ray players) and using them for the ps3, but the first gen blue-ray players can not play dual layer disks (not that they exist). also when the ps2 was first launched it was not able to play dual layer DVDs so i wouldnt put this past sony.
back to the topic, there is no excuse for a game like this to take up this much room. its complete rubbish that they point the finger to detail of the levels. the game looks good, yes, but it does not look as good as CoD3, GoW, rainbowsix vegas, BiA, or many other titles. like many have said it before, its CoD2 with monsters and i see that. even though i think this is a huge marketing push, we dont know the whole story. maybe the ps3 was not built for compression like the 360 was and thus they are not using the same techniques which is a shame because compression helps game performance more then uncompressed data does. aslo we dont know how much of that space is taken up with rendered movies, much will be revealed at launch im sure.
as for stating these numbers in defense for sony's choice to include a blue-ray player in the ps3, why should the developer care? unless sony is handing over some money (which i believe to be the case) there is no reason for a developer to make such a huge case about the size of their game. touting that your game is over 20gbs will not convince gamers to buy your game and is not a way to promote your game especially to the average consumer who wouldnt know what their talking about. what does a developer have to gain from saying "our game is 22gigs, we need blue-ray, this cant be done on the 360's DVD9", nothing.
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 13, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 05:20 PM)
This is what some, or most Xbox games did and I'm glad that they're doing this for PS3 as its gonna speed up the release date for our fellow European gamers. Heck, they might even get some games FIRST. Hopefully this trend will continue with other companies, so that we may never have to import again, or if we do import, we can play it in our language.
As for multi region discs speeding up the release date? NOPE. Think about it this way.. if the game was coded for Japan and it takes 3 months to add into the localization coding for the other regions (video formats, languages, etc)... the game might normally release in Japan in December then the US in March, then Europe and Aus in June, and the rest of world in September/October...
Now if they want to put all that info onto he same disc before releasing it at all it would mean that NO region would get the disc until September/October
It'd be like Comunism... everyone is the same... and thus everyone suffers the same as the lowest common denominator.
Also I want to clear something up... the game does not have over 40 levels... read it again, it says "over 40 'different large loaded areas'" A single level could contain any number of "large loaded areas" IIRC a single LEVEL of Splinter Cell:CT included close to 5 or 6 large loaded areas.
I'm not saying it will have a small number of levels but I'd seriously be surprised if the game had more then 20 levels between single and multi-player, even less if they use the same level for both.
Post by: throwingks on September 13, 2006, 11:35:00 AM
40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?
If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.
How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.
I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.
Post by: KAGE360 on September 13, 2006, 12:38:00 PM
QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM)
Help me with my math.
40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?
If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.
How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.
I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.
read the original quote and twisted post again. it's the levels and sub-levels that are around 300 megs, not each of the "large areas". so first you would have to find out how many large areas make up one level on average before multiplying that with 300 megs. regardless this would only mean that your total would be even smaller. again i believe that a lot of that space goes to rendered movies and sloppy code.
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 13, 2006, 12:43:00 PM
QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM)
Help me with my math.
40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?
If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.
How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.
I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.
they're deliberately leaving out information
it's 300MB per level and they have 40 large areas
but they don't tell you how many large areas there are per level
you can't make a space estimate with the limited information they've provided...
As for Oblivion it's easily over 40, every city, every dungeon, every large building, and however many areas they divided the outside world into. Considering the outside world makes up a larger number of areas then all of the dungeons combine and there are well over 100 dungeons.... well you get the picture.
Post by: Kira Yamoto on September 13, 2006, 01:15:00 PM
QUOTE
that is something i have been wondering as well. they are taking diods from current blue-ray players (or what would have been blue-ray players) and using them for the ps3, but the first gen blue-ray players can not play dual layer disks (not that they exist). also when the ps2 was first launched it was not able to play dual layer DVDs so i wouldnt put this past sony.
Ahem, the players themselves should be capable of DL disks, but its the disks that they have a problem with, which they DON'T anymore. MGM and Fox are slated to come out with 50GB disk content of their own later this year. So yeah that whole yield crap is done and over with now. When those disks hit the market, a firmware update should be in order. Btw, PS2 didn't have online firmware updates. PS3 does so it should be able to adapt as much as the BDP or the XA-1 standalones.
QUOTE
Currently games made by European companies almost always release in Europe first.
As an Xbox gamer as well, I already knew this.
QUOTE
back to the topic, there is no excuse for a game like this to take up this much room.
How many bloody times do they have to explain it to you? You keep mentioning sloppy coding, yet, you're NOT a developer, yet the developer personnel himself, said that it's because they are fitting multi-reigon content in there. That basically means double of anything multimedia you fuckin idiot. DD5.1 tracks NTSC + PAL's multiple language tracks, as well as the double videos themselves take half, or more of the disk. It's not due to sloppy coding. There's absolutely nothing you can do, besides downsample the videos and audio as well as take out the extra reigon tracks to make it fit like a regular dvd9 game. (so its only for NTSC, only for PAL, yada yada) Let's not forget that they actually have planned extras in the game, so that might be more cut-scenes, demoes, and all that other junk.
Basically, until Resistance comes out, you don't know shit. You can call sloppy coding as much as you like even though they're trained professionals, you only sound like an idiot every time you say shit like that. I may not know whats inside the game, but I do know how big video and audio can get considering that I'm an expert coder. At least that much about what I said with video and audio I can be sure.
Post by: KAGE360 on September 13, 2006, 01:36:00 PM
QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 13 2006, 01:42 PM)
Help me with my math.
40 large areas @ 300 megabytes each = 12000 megabytes
1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte
12 gigabytes?
If my math is correct, then they are full of shit.
How many large areas does Oblivion have? I know it uses under 9 gigs of space.
I also bet the in game video is mpeg not H.264/AVC.
read the original quote and twisted post again. it's the levels and sub-levels that are around 300 megs, not each of the "large areas". so first you would have to find out how many large areas make up one level on average before multiplying that with 300 megs. regardless this would only mean that your total would be even smaller. again i believe that a lot of that space goes to rendered movies and sloppy code.
Post by: incognegro on September 13, 2006, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: Deftech on September 13, 2006, 04:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 13 2006, 03:22 PM)
How many bloody times do they have to explain it to you? You keep mentioning sloppy coding, yet, you're NOT a developer, yet the developer personnel himself, said that it's because they are fitting multi-reigon content in there. That basically means double of anything multimedia you fuckin idiot. DD5.1 tracks NTSC + PAL's multiple language tracks, as well as the double videos themselves take half, or more of the disk. It's not due to sloppy coding. There's absolutely nothing you can do, besides downsample the videos and audio as well as take out the extra reigon tracks to make it fit like a regular dvd9 game. (so its only for NTSC, only for PAL, yada yada) Let's not forget that they actually have planned extras in the game, so that might be more cut-scenes, demoes, and all that other junk.
Basically, until Resistance comes out, you don't know shit. You can call sloppy coding as much as you like even though they're trained professionals, you only sound like an idiot every time you say shit like that. I may not know whats inside the game, but I do know how big video and audio can get considering that I'm an expert coder. At least that much about what I said with video and audio I can be sure.
*sigh*
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 13, 2006, 04:39:00 PM
<rant>
I don't understand why ANYONE should be giving ANY company ANY slack on BS like this. I Don't care if you love their products or not.
If Sony, Nintendo, MS, or anyone else feeds you lines of BS and releases misleading statements, confuses the issue, or fails to deliver on their promises to the letter you should hang them out to dry NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
As a consumer it is your DUTY to hold these companies accountable, I don't care if they're run by the m*ther f*ing pope.
These companies (any of them) don't give two sh*ts about you, you're just a means to an end... MONEY.
Sure I give Sony a hard time, I gave MS a hard time too. When they promised that HDDs, Wireless controllers, and Component cables Standard... and then made that only available on the top tier version... I called them on it. When they claimed that every console would be "Wi-Fi Ready" and that turned out to mean ready... to accept our $100 adapter... I called them on it. When they said all games would support 720p per their certification requirements and it turns out that they let PGR3 slide... I called them on that too.
If you don't complain, and let people in the industry know they'll walk all over you and their product will turn to pure garbage.... the longer you go without calling them on their half truths and outright lies the more reason they'll give you to do so.
Sure you might think that calling them on their BS in some forum might be useless... but it's not... you get everyone in the forum to realize the sh*t they're trying to pull and it goes up the food chain. Journalists will take notice and start asking the hard questions that they see people asking in the forums, letters to the editor, and news article comments. Then the big wigs will have to answer and if you keep pushing the issue you wont let them get away with avoiding the questions.
I'm not saying you should be unreasonable but you should seriously question the why.... and call them on it if you think the answer seems like its just more BS.
Basically what I'm saying is that I don't care if you're really Bill Gates in disguise... you shouldn't let Sony, or any other company walk all over you like your some servant boy. You need to throw their BS back in their arrogant faces and tell them your money is worth more then listening to them pitch you half-truths, to sell you more proprietary DRMed betaware GARBAGE for the sake of lining their own pockets.
</rant>
Post by: incognegro on September 14, 2006, 06:08:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 13 2006, 11:46 PM)
I'm only going to say this once so LISTEN UP
<rant>
I don't understand why ANYONE should be giving ANY company ANY slack on BS like this. I Don't care if you love their products or not.
If Sony, Nintendo, MS, or anyone else feeds you lines of BS and releases misleading statements, confuses the issue, or fails to deliver on their promises to the letter you should hang them out to dry NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
As a consumer it is your DUTY to hold these companies accountable, I don't care if they're run by the m*ther f*ing pope.
These companies (any of them) don't give two sh*ts about you, you're just a means to an end... MONEY.
Sure I give Sony a hard time, I gave MS a hard time too. When they promised that HDDs, Wireless controllers, and Component cables Standard... and then made that only available on the top tier version... I called them on it. When they claimed that every console would be "Wi-Fi Ready" and that turned out to mean ready... to accept our $100 adapter... I called them on it. When they said all games would support 720p per their certification requirements and it turns out that they let PGR3 slide... I called them on that too.
If you don't complain, and let people in the industry know they'll walk all over you and their product will turn to pure garbage.... the longer you go without calling them on their half truths and outright lies the more reason they'll give you to do so.
Sure you might think that calling them on their BS in some forum might be useless... but it's not... you get everyone in the forum to realize the sh*t they're trying to pull and it goes up the food chain. Journalists will take notice and start asking the hard questions that they see people asking in the forums, letters to the editor, and news article comments. Then the big wigs will have to answer and if you keep pushing the issue you wont let them get away with avoiding the questions.
I'm not saying you should be unreasonable but you should seriously question the why.... and call them on it if you think the answer seems like its just more BS.
Basically what I'm saying is that I don't care if you're really Bill Gates in disguise... you shouldn't let Sony, or any other company walk all over you like your some servant boy. You need to throw their BS back in their arrogant faces and tell them your money is worth more then listening to them pitch you half-truths, to sell you more proprietary DRMed betaware GARBAGE for the sake of lining their own pockets.
</rant>
Co- sign!
Post by: KAGE360 on September 14, 2006, 08:22:00 AM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Sep 13 2006, 06:23 PM)
*sigh*
i just saw that today. he acts like a developer never codes their game in a sloppy way. he also didnt point out how i also pointed the blaim to a lot of rendered FMV.
for someone has gotten warned already kira its pretty ballsy to keep insulting other for "not knowing shit" when you have proven to know the least of all of us. watch what you say boy, hopefully one day it wont get you banned for good
to twisted and his rant. its great to favor a company but its disgusting to be blind to their BS
Post by: kidkinetix on September 14, 2006, 09:16:00 AM
- Remove the duplicated content (region specific)
- Split up the Single Player and Multiplayer onto their own dvd9, considering area size and texture detail are the main arguments here.
Resistance is the only (early) PS3 release that I actually find interesting, but I think we get enough verbal vomit from Sony firsthand to need any more from developers. Very nice /rant Twisted, always a good read.
Post by: incognegro on September 14, 2006, 09:20:00 AM
QUOTE(kidkinetix @ Sep 14 2006, 04:23 PM)
Worst case scenario...
- Remove the duplicated content (region specific)
- Split up the Single Player and Multiplayer onto their own dvd9, considering area size and texture detail are the main arguments here.
Resistance is the only (early) PS3 release that I actually find interesting, but I think we get enough verbal vomit from Sony firsthand to need any more from developers. Very nice /rant Twisted, always a good read.
Why would u need two dvd9s? It seems like the game can hold on 1 dvd from what I gather.
Post by: kidkinetix on September 14, 2006, 09:22:00 AM
QUOTE(incognegro @ Sep 14 2006, 04:27 PM)
Why would u need two dvd9s? It seems like the game can hold on dvd from what I gather.
I assume it would be possible as well, but that's why I wrote 'worst case scenario'.
Post by: incognegro on September 14, 2006, 09:27:00 AM
QUOTE(kidkinetix @ Sep 14 2006, 04:29 PM)
I assume it would be possible as well, but that's why I wrote 'worst case scenario'.
I see
Post by: Sc4rfac3 on September 14, 2006, 09:43:00 AM
i switch to ms over sony. i'm just tired of the sony bs
oh and thats a load of crap from insomniac
Post by: nickthegreat on September 14, 2006, 01:58:00 PM
QUOTE(Heretic-666 @ Sep 14 2006, 08:18 PM)
I feel like the definition of hypocrisy was just written out for this thread seeing some of these "passionate ???" comments come out.
As has the definition of nonsensical ^^
Post by: Mr Invader on September 14, 2006, 08:03:00 PM
From what i hear, Resistance's AI isn't too shabby. In fact, i heard that it was excellent.
I wonder if this is (more) hype, possibly (overall) false, or it might be baised (considering this news coming from IGN, it probably is very baised.)
Post by: KAGE360 on September 15, 2006, 10:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Sep 14 2006, 10:10 PM)
This is surprising
From what i hear, Resistance's AI isn't too shabby. In fact, i heard that it was excellent.
I wonder if this is (more) hype, possibly (overall) false, or it might be baised (considering this news coming from IGN, it probably is very baised.)
im assuming that you are surprised because of the ps3's reported lack to run good AI?
well its still possible to have comparable AI on the ps3, you just have to work around it's environment and in the end this may result in 5x the work needed but its still possible.
seeing as how CoD2 had some of the best AI ever and CoD3 is reported to be even better with no complaints on the ps3 version ever mentioned, im sure this news about resistance is true.
Post by: Mr Invader on September 15, 2006, 04:19:00 PM
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Sep 15 2006, 11:11 AM)
im assuming that you are surprised because of the ps3's reported lack to run good AI?
well its still possible to have comparable AI on the ps3, you just have to work around it's environment and in the end this may result in 5x the work needed but its still possible.
seeing as how CoD2 had some of the best AI ever and CoD3 is reported to be even better with no complaints on the ps3 version ever mentioned, im sure this news about resistance is true.
Yeah, i get ya
Post by: bluie on September 21, 2006, 11:42:00 PM
QUOTE(Exist2Resist @ Sep 22 2006, 02:24 AM)
Let me shatter your illusion of BD being better than DVD, well here it goes, the load times on 360's dvd's are way, way faster than anything BD can handle, and because M$ sells region specific games they dont need 20 GB of storage 9 GB is plenty. That's all there's to it.
So suddenly region-locked games is a good thing for the consumer? Yeah right..
To me everyone claiming with absolute ceirtainity that more than 9 gigs per game is completely unneeded sounds suspiciosly alike people claiming that "Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM!"...
Oh well. Go figure.
And to anyone wanting either MS or Sony to fail: Stupid!
Nothing better for the consumer than a very intensive - but non lethal - console war!
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 22, 2006, 05:48:00 AM
QUOTE(bluie @ Sep 22 2006, 01:49 AM)
So suddenly region-locked games is a good thing for the consumer? Yeah right..
To me everyone claiming with absolute ceirtainity that more than 9 gigs per game is completely unneeded sounds suspiciosly alike people claiming that "Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM!"...
Oh well. Go figure.
And to anyone wanting either MS or Sony to fail: Stupid!
Nothing better for the consumer than a very intensive - but non lethal - console war!
Regardless of what he's calming the Xbox 360 isn't region locked... the console knows what region it belongs to (for reasons of power and output frequency compatibility) but it's left up to developers to lock their game to that region information or not... it's the same exact methods that Sony is using with the PS3. The Wii on the other hand is required to be locked for Nintendo certification (contrary to early reports, they were later squashed by Nintendo HQ).
No matter if there is region locking or not there's no reason all the different region info needs to reside on the same disc. You can put localized content on a disc without region locking, if you make a disc for Japan and have no intention of selling it in the US you aren't going to put US localization data on it anyway, region locking or not.
I also don't think anyone is saying that "more than 9 gigs per game is completely unneeded" or that we are claiming it with "absolute certainty". I think no one can no for sure. But estimates point that 9 gigs is sufficient for most titles this generation. Let me say that again. It's been estimated (best guesses) that 9GB is sufficient for most (a high percentage but not all) titles this generation (the next 5 years).
Besides the whole question is not whether the extra space is needed AT ALL the debate is if the extra space is so desperately needed that it would have been beneficial to gamers if MS delayed their consoles launch a whole year, added $200 to the price of the console, and added another $5 to $10 (on top of the existing $10) to the price of games for the space benefit of a blue laser disc.
Similarly you have to question if the Blu-Ray's added space is similarly beneficial to Sony's PS3... without blu-Ray you could have been playing the PS3 this time last year, you could have bought it for $300 or $400 (possibly even cheaper) and game prices would be $5 to $10 cheaper.
Do I think there will be games this generation that need more then 9GB of space? YES I DO... Do I think that number of games will be so large that the added costs across the board and years wait would be worth not having to swap discs on a few select titles... NO I DO NOT.