Post by: incognegro on October 13, 2006, 10:05:00 AM
Hey this is at least better than nintendo's offering
That "wallet" paypal-wannabe thing is kinda nice. Plus the web browser is just so tempting to me...
Post by: Pheidias on October 13, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 13, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
I'm not sure how I fell about the wallet thing, showing real money is kind of cool but points have the benifit of being an international standard... so I can post about it here without worrying if someone in Canada, or Austrailia are interpreting it different.
800 points is 800 points wheither your in the US, europe, japan or mars.
On the one hand real money takes away innitial confusion of having to learn a new metric, but on the other hand it's another degree of separate from a true global community. Again I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. What I did like about the wallet was that you could setup allownaces, I'm curious if you could setup an allowance for yourself. I wouldn't mind giving myself $15 a month to spend in the marketplace to keep me from spending too much. Also during the dead summer periods it would build up so I could splurge come fall and not take a hit in my REAL wallet.
I think one thing people need to realize is that while it does offere all these features, aparently you have to exit your game to use them... so it's really more like Xbox 1's Xbox Live
QUOTE
Again, those familiar with Xbox Live on the Xbox 360 won't find this terribly surprising, but it's worth noting that the system does show you friend sign-ins and new messages received in overlays on top of the game you're currently playing - just little notification windows which pop up to tell you about something happening with your friends list. At present, however, there's no system for actually reading or responding to messages while you're still in the game, as the operating system doesn't take resources away from games in order to do that - however, according to Harrison, that functionality may well appear in an OS update, presumably based on whether users actually express a desire for it or not.
That is incredibly LAME.
I think this has a lot of POTENTIAL.. it could become as great as XBL on the 360 but I don't see it happening until at least 6 months down the road. The reason I believe that is this:
If you remember when MS launched XBL on the Xbox 1 they had an extensive beta testing period, they didn't even launch the service at the same time as the console such that they could work the bugs out of each individually.
If you launch an international online service attempting to compete feature for feature with an existing well established and evolved system, I honestly don't know how you'd do it without a massive public beta test. Couple that with the fact that it's essentially launching simultaneously with the console, which I'm sure will have problems of it's own... They're just lining themselves up for massive rapid fire headaches, I'm not so much worried about Sony as the consumers/gamers who might be left sitting on their hands waiting for the bugs to get worked out of the ointment at every level.
----
As for the online gaming part, I'm still skeptical, I'm sure it will be free, the real question is:
Does Sony provide the online gaming part of the service or does the publisher/developer?
This question is VERY important because if it is being left up to the developer/publisher then chances are you wont see it being supported much more then it was on the PS2, game makers don't want to front the cost of running servers unless they think it will allow them to sell enough extra units to make up the costs.
Your EA's and Ubisofts will still probably offer games online as they're large enough that running their own servers is a necessity, but smaller developers, or developers who normally don't delve into online gaming probably wont be interested or wont have the means to add that functionality to their game. Not to mention the quality of the online service would be a crap-shoot as to how good that particular server is.
Post by: incognegro on October 13, 2006, 11:56:00 AM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 13 2006, 06:09 PM) 
Just the fact the online gaming will be free is awesome, if true, its all I want from it
Nothing of quality is free!
Twisted u bring up some good points. The thing that caught my eye is the fact that you can use ur wallet to pay for MMO transactions. Meaning u can use it to pay for the service without hassle (like paypal). I think sony did good on this one (the service). Whether its a decent rival to Live is doubtful cause no matter how good they make the PNP Ms is always gonna be one step ahead of them.
Now where is the 360 web browser?
Post by: calderra on October 14, 2006, 08:21:00 AM
-Doesn't the membership fee keep a lot of idiots out? Sure, some people still find ways to get back on (buying new one-month cards and getting new gamertags)... but they gotta pay cash to do it. On the PS network, they can probably get back in for free. More idiots will be on, and will keep coming back.
-Live's membership fees go to server upgrades, paying staff who ban people for bad conduct, and almost certainly kickbacks to companies who incite subscriptions (IE: "make more games"). They're not just about profit.
-Basically the only thing the actual PS network does is host your gamertag and downloads- EVERYTHING else is left up to developers. Messaging? Gotta hope they put it in (and only across the game you're playing in). Video chat? Only if the dev adds it (and only across one title again). Viewing gamercards? Only if the dev puts it in, and then the implementation of what you see and how is completely up to them. Etc, etc. As said, EA will have no problem with this. But what about all the little 3rd party developers? Can they risk trying to run their own online servers and such? If they do, will they suck?
-Points are universal across the world (greater sense of community). Not only that, but with Live Anywhere, Micorosft is finding new ways to implement them. You'll soon be able to get Zune songs and videos with Points, and the service keeps growing. Points are becoming a badass club that's just cool to be part of- and you disassociate your points from your money. "No mom, I'm not asking for $20 for my birthday, I'm asking for 1600 points!". A subtle but important shift, I think. Esspecially for the holidays. Instead of feeling cheap for getting someone a $20 gift card, I'm getting them abstract points. The disassociation with the dollar makes it seem like something just a little extra special. IMHO.
Post by: calderra on October 14, 2006, 08:45:00 AM
-XNA: People can now download, build, test, and share games for and over Xbox Live in the pursuit of eventual release on the console. This can't be done with the PSNetwork, unless Sony builds servers for it.
-Betas. Again, PSN can't do it as forumulated. Or not as well...
Xbox Live members can now download the beta of Phantasy Star Universe from the Xbox Live Marketplace. This free beta is available in all Xbox Live regions except Hong Kong, Korea, Singapore and Taiwan.
Because Xbox Live has established central servers and services, think about how easy betas are.
-Voice and video chat allow devs instant access to their audience. (PSUDev invites you to audio chat with the message- "I saw you playing our beta. May we discuss your experience?).
-Pre-fab servers mean devs don't have to pay their own hosting costs here, allowing their money to go to development.
-The pre-established audience on Xbox Live means you know you're reaching people.
-Word-of-mouth can happen instantly across games. "I know you're playing GRAW right now, but this new beta is awesome! You should totally get this game so we can form a party when it launches!"
XBL just has so much flexibility...
1: "Hey, you ready to play PGR3?"
2: "I wanna grab some food first."
1: "Cool. I'll just load PGR3 into my tray and go play some Geometry Wars- send an invite when you're ready."
It boggles the mind how cool freedom like this is across the network.
Or how about...
1: *sees friend is online via notification during a movie, chooses to pause*
1: "Dude, you wanna play CoD tonight?"
2: "I'm downloading stuff atm. How long til ur done?"
1: "I've got like half an hour left."
2: "Sweet. I'll try out the Lost Planet demo for once. Message when ready."
PSN just... can't do that.
Post by: Pheidias on October 14, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
So unless I miss read the article it can do most of what you said and then some (webbrowser adds alot of possibilities and the ability to dl old ps1 and ps2 titles is neat
You didn't miss that there was a page two on the article?
Post by: throwingks on October 15, 2006, 05:33:00 AM
Post by: Pheidias on October 15, 2006, 05:53:00 AM
Post by: incognegro on October 15, 2006, 06:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 14 2006, 04:17 PM)
Calderra unless I missed something they talk about messaging in game, "but it's worth noting that the system does show you friend sign-ins and new messages received in overlays on top of the game you're currently playing" so most of what you talk abuot will work, too bad in the beggning you won't be able to answer those will playing but as they say in the article "however, according to Harrison, that functionality may well appear in an OS update". And betas and content is probably something we will see on the ps3 as well maybe even more since both versions comes with a HDD so dl content will be a a big thing (My guess) If Sony is smart they will be giving out there entire movie library and such (ps3 apparently already have a music store) for download.
So unless I miss read the article it can do most of what you said and then some (webbrowser adds alot of possibilities and the ability to dl old ps1 and ps2 titles is neat
You didn't miss that there was a page two on the article?
Let me add that as much as this all sound thorough based on the article, Sony is definitely not the most thorough company when it comes to software (sometimes with hardware too). The message thing didn't surprise me at all because even though they talk big, almost always they leave out the details. May I remind you of the promise of the psp and how much updates u had to do in order to turn into a semi decent device for media. I just cant believe it took them a couple of years before you can simply drag and drop a video files onto the thing!! Something as basic as that!
What he was trying to say is just how simple and well thought out the 360 UI is. Sony isn't really known for that sort of thing. I guarantee you that as great as this (PNP) sounds, using the damn thing is going to be a WHOLE different story!
Post by: bucko on October 15, 2006, 09:44:00 AM
Finally it's been a long time coming, but Sony seem to be doing something right for once!
Post by: Mr Invader on October 15, 2006, 08:00:00 PM
QUOTE(bucko @ Oct 15 2006, 10:51 AM)
Finally it's been a long time coming, but Sony seem to be doing something right for once!
The fees are small for xbox live, but those fees help alot to make sure that M$ servers are at the highest performance possible. I remember way back before i had high speed internet, my friend just got broadband cable and purchased a modem adaptor for his ps2. I put in SOCOM 2 and played in a server with 3 people in it, none of them had internet short of high speed internet and it was still so laggy i couldn't hit anyone. I think that fees are okay as long as its a low but understandable fee. Fees help M$ to optimize the online gameplay.
Post by: Deftech on October 15, 2006, 09:13:00 PM
Some people need to stop looking for reasons to justify not getting Live, its embarassing.
Post by: m_hael on October 15, 2006, 09:41:00 PM
say game X comes out for Ps3, its got fantastic online and gets played to death for 6months.... then tails off. Within 2/3 months of tailing off the servers previously dedicated to game X would be given over to game Y.
on XBL you can always play any of the games, any time regardless of how low the demand for the game is.
paid services definitely have their benefits.
Post by: Pheidias on October 15, 2006, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: KAGE360 on October 15, 2006, 11:03:00 PM
QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 15 2006, 11:48 PM)
there is another plus point to XBL over Sony's attempt.
say game X comes out for Ps3, its got fantastic online and gets played to death for 6months.... then tails off. Within 2/3 months of tailing off the servers previously dedicated to game X would be given over to game Y.
on XBL you can always play any of the games, any time regardless of how low the demand for the game is.
paid services definitely have their benefits.
all but EA's crap games, recently they shut off online gameplay to quite a few games.
doesnt microsoft manage data flow through their servers even though were the one's hosting the game? i thought this was meant to optimize online gameplay. depending on the company wouldnt this mean that LIVE would have smoother online play more often?
Also while the online gameplay is free, i read that they are charging for EVERYTHING else including around $1 for a demo. IMHO this is more expensive then LIVE. if i was charged for everything that i download off the marketplace then i would be paying much more then $50 a year.
Post by: silentbob343 on October 16, 2006, 01:22:00 AM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 15 2006, 11:20 PM)
Yeah, 4.17 a month is soooooo pricey for what you get
Some people need to stop looking for reasons to justify not getting Live, its embarassing.
or stop looking for reasons to bash Sony and pan the PS3 before it has been released.
Post by: Deftech on October 16, 2006, 01:44:00 AM
QUOTE(silentbob343 @ Oct 16 2006, 03:29 AM)
or stop looking for reasons to bash Sony and pan the PS3 before it has been released.
Nice try but that won't work. I dont need to bash sony as far as their online plans, they are doing that for themselves thank you. And I certainly dont need to Look for Reasons, just check any website every hour of every day and its out there, the truth is out there.
I cant wait to see everyone bitching after a few months or years when they see what FREE gets them.
Buy one less damn fast food burger a month, just one, and you just paid for xbox live. Gee thats a steep amount, how fuggin dare them charge so much!
Enjoy your overgrown PSP
Post by: Pheidias on October 16, 2006, 03:31:00 AM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 16 2006, 09:51 AM)
Nice try but that won't work. I dont need to bash sony as far as their online plans, they are doing that for themselves thank you. And I certainly dont need to Look for Reasons, just check any website every hour of every day and its out there, the truth is out there.
I cant wait to see everyone bitching after a few months or years when they see what FREE gets them.
Buy one less damn fast food burger a month, just one, and you just paid for xbox live. Gee thats a steep amount, how fuggin dare them charge so much!
Enjoy your overgrown PSP
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 16, 2006, 06:07:00 AM
QUOTE(thax @ Oct 16 2006, 02:23 AM)
What is the base currency going to be then? The Yen, the US Dollar or the Euro? If the pricing is dynamically adjusted in each country, then your current balance would also be displayed using using that same base currency. This would mean that your current balance would change on a daily basis. If you use each countries own currency as the base currency for current balance then it wouldn't make sense to use a different currency as the base currency for sales because your purchasing power would change on a daily basis. At this point you might as well just store everything in US dollars, The Euro or the Yen, at least it would be a single currency.
Exactly my point...
If you don't use an arbitrary points system then you either
A. have prices that shift daily based changes in the money market or
B. have a disparity between regions where one ends up cheaper/more expensive then the other.
Localized money doesn't work well for a global economy.. you can't just do a conversion because conversion rates change daily.
Post by: KAGE360 on October 16, 2006, 06:12:00 AM
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 16 2006, 03:51 AM)
Nice try but that won't work. I dont need to bash sony as far as their online plans, they are doing that for themselves thank you. And I certainly dont need to Look for Reasons, just check any website every hour of every day and its out there, the truth is out there.
I cant wait to see everyone bitching after a few months or years when they see what FREE gets them.
Buy one less damn fast food burger a month, just one, and you just paid for xbox live. Gee thats a steep amount, how fuggin dare them charge so much!
Enjoy your overgrown PSP
when microsoft is still losing money over LIVE even though they charge for their GOLD account, you know that we are getting services well beyond the money we pay.
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 16, 2006, 06:20:00 AM
QUOTE(bucko @ Oct 15 2006, 11:51 AM)
Very nice read, nice to know that online gaming will be free, that has always bugged me with Xbox Live (never had it) because I just like to play Counter Strike Source on my PC for free online because I've already bought the game. ...
QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 15 2006, 11:20 PM)
Yeah, 4.17 a month is soooooo pricey for what you get
Some people need to stop looking for reasons to justify not getting Live, its embarassing.
I'd have to agree with Deftech here. I didn't bother with XBL for the longest time. I had an Modded Xbox, and I thought it was stupid to have to pay any amount for online service. I played a few games online using my PC but not to often because it was a hassle.
I won a new Xbox in a Mt Dew contest and it came with 3 months free. Being that got an unmoded console and a free trial I decided it could hurt trying. I didn't even have any specific games that I wanted to play online.
After about 2 hours revisiting old games I hadn't played for months and tried them for the first time online (even games I wouldn't have thought about playing online) I realized that the measly $4 a month was well worth what MS offered. The servers are fast, you don't have to configure anything, and you have a singular identity across every game. Playing online was just as easy to do as playing offline.
I bought a 12 month kit the next day and never looked back...
bucko, I can see where you're coming from but Deftech is right, making excuses at this point is just embarrassing, hell even my GF has a XBL Gold account
Post by: incognegro on October 16, 2006, 06:48:00 AM
Post by: incognegro on October 16, 2006, 08:11:00 AM
Post by: Pheidias on October 16, 2006, 08:49:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 16, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 16 2006, 10:56 AM)
...but not pay for built a in function in the game (online play) that you already paid for seems reasonable to me.
You're not really paying for the only function, you're paying for the servers...
without servers to run the game you can't play online, servers are not free, nor are there costs included in the price of a game.
Post by: Deftech on October 16, 2006, 11:40:00 AM
Did anyone prove he isn't Kira?
Post by: Pheidias on October 16, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 16, 2006, 11:59:00 AM
QUOTE(silentbob343 @ Oct 16 2006, 01:59 PM)
Any mod/admin can verify I haven't made false accounts. Hell, I use this same S/N on most of my forums; clubprotege, NASIOC, i-club, falfiles, CZFORUM, mp3car, Hardocp. I also go by Jules343 on AVS and the commport.
Really? I'm a member there too. Do you drive a WRX? BTW where are you located?
Post by: twistedsymphony on October 16, 2006, 12:34:00 PM
shameless plug: http://www.autotrade..._...1&cardist=0
Post by: Deftech on October 16, 2006, 01:36:00 PM
I will direct my perverse hatred at whom I please thank you
It grows stronger with every passing day. Carry on...
*Note: I'll be extra nice now knowing that mister bob is on Twisteds good side
Post by: Pheidias on October 16, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
being on your piss parade D
Post by: incognegro on October 16, 2006, 02:30:00 PM
Post by: shotgunsteve on November 16, 2006, 06:03:00 PM
