Post by: shanook on October 16, 2007, 02:59:00 PM
Tobacco causes lung cancer
Alcohol causes liver cancer
Marijuana..helps deter cancer?
Tobacco causes emphysema and chronic bronchitis
Marijuana..helps emphysema?
Alcohol kills brain cells
Marijuana..kills no brain cells?
So why's it illegal?
post your thoughts. disagree with anything i've stated? i'll give sources from college professors and medical research published nationwide.
Post by: gronned on October 16, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
I'm quite sure it's not as dangerous as alcohol. Tobacco is a bit harder to say as most also use tobacco when smoking weed. One of the reasons the don't want to legalize it is because it often drives people into heavier drugs(I don't know what proof they have, but that's the claim).
Most people I've seen regularly smoking it really look like potheads with their eyes about to fall asleep any second, so it's got to have quite an impact. And most I've spoken with that quit smoking say it was because the long term effects were that they became too down and too paranoid.
Anyway, I hope they do more serious research on it as it's an "interesting" drug that may actually have numerous benefits.
Post by: shanook on October 16, 2007, 05:33:00 PM
QUOTE(gronned @ Oct 16 2007, 11:30 PM) 
I don't disagree really, but I'd like to see the sources you're talking about.
I'm quite sure it's not as dangerous as alcohol. Tobacco is a bit harder to say as most also use tobacco when smoking weed. One of the reasons the don't want to legalize it is because it often drives people into heavier drugs(I don't know what proof they have, but that's the claim).
Most people I've seen regularly smoking it really look like potheads with their eyes about to fall asleep any second, so it's got to have quite an impact. And most I've spoken with that quit smoking say it was because the long term effects were that they became too down and too paranoid.
Anyway, I hope they do more serious research on it as it's an "interesting" drug that may actually have numerous benefits.
One second, i'm going to find my sources that i derived all of my info on. I regularly smoke pot, am a college student, and currently have all A's. It has not deterred my motivation to do well in school, or my motivation in anything else. As for the 'gateway effect' that you're talking about, a college professor, in a video i'm about to show you, disproves this theory.
A lot of research on marijuana concludes positive results, however, some research is buried by the U.S. government. No clue why, I believe it's because marijuana can't be sold and taxed because it's so easily grown? That's one theory I've read.
The main fact that makes pot much safer than alc is the fact that you cannot overdose on pot. It's impossible, if you drink too much, you can die.
I"m going to find my sources, i'll repost in a second.
http://www.washingto...2501729_pf.html - marijuana does not cause lung cancer
- author of a marijuana legalization book, retired college professor. Discusses the various myths assumed about marijuana, and also discusses how even if current research is completely wrong, marijuana should still be legalized to be regulated.
http://www.art.net/~...no-clothes.html - marijuana could help emphysema, by Dr. Tashkin. Also, no recorded deaths of Marijuana in history.
http://paranoia.lyca...ogy.html#myth12 - marijuana does not kill brain cells.
Post by: shanook on October 17, 2007, 06:58:00 AM
, but i'll smoke an occasional cigar here and there.
Post by: crackfeen on October 17, 2007, 11:01:00 AM
there was a standup comedian whose name i don't remember.. but he had the best thing to say about this....
"they should legalize marijuana just so stoners will no longer have anything to talk about"
Post by: shanook on October 17, 2007, 12:30:00 PM
QUOTE(crackfeen @ Oct 17 2007, 06:37 PM)
for the love of god...
there was a standup comedian whose name i don't remember.. but he had the best thing to say about this....
"they should legalize marijuana just so stoners will no longer have anything to talk about"
lol, well, we would shutup if there wasn't so much damn propaganda with absolutely nothing backing them.
i hate it when people heavily oppose marijuana, and i ask them why, and they say "it's bad." wtf does that mean? i ask them to clarify and they say "it causes lung cancer"
...what do you say to someone like that? when it's been proven and published EVERYWHERE, through international news stations.
I don't care if you smoke or not, but i don't like it when people oppose stuff with absolutely no reason.
Post by: crackfeen on October 17, 2007, 02:28:00 PM
QUOTE(shanook @ Oct 17 2007, 03:06 PM)
lol, well, we would shutup if there wasn't so much damn propaganda with absolutely nothing backing them.
i hate it when people heavily oppose marijuana, and i ask them why, and they say "it's bad." wtf does that mean? i ask them to clarify and they say "it causes lung cancer"
...what do you say to someone like that? when it's been proven and published EVERYWHERE, through international news stations.
I don't care if you smoke or not, but i don't like it when people oppose stuff with absolutely no reason.
in the long run you'll get cancer no matter what.. it's inevitable..
my problem with weed is that the people that get "addicted" become complete wastes of life.. they are not interesting... all the friends i have that are burnouts pretty much just sit there smoke and play video games.. (mind you we're all in our 20s) that's it.. they work just enough to pay their rent, junk food, and pot... what do you do with a person like that?
as far as casual users go.. if they just screw around with it you would never know about it... but it doesn't work like that... most people who try it either like it or don't.. those who don't like it either don't do it at all or do it rarely in social situations.. those who like it, gently fall into the groove of smoking habitually.. and eventually wind up in the burnout club...
in my opinion... physically there might not be anything wrong with it.. but it's the mental dependence that becomes a problem... smoking/alcohol actually bear with them a physical addiction... if weed doesn't, then people don't see it as a problem.. and don't realize that it's affecting them negatively.
how's that? good enough of a reason? this is a personal opinion so i'm not forcing it on anyone but it's my 2 cents
Post by: hamwbone on October 17, 2007, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: shanook on October 17, 2007, 06:01:00 PM
QUOTE(hamwbone @ Oct 17 2007, 10:11 PM)
if all these stoners actually put all the time they TALKED about the need to legalize pot and invested that into actually DOING something about it, they might make some waves... im all for legalizing it.
i agree with that, but there's not much to do. Anyone in support of legalization isn't going to be put into office. it's a vicious cycle. if there was someone going for office for legalizatoin i'd be all for him, but tha'ts not how politics works
Post by: NKI Klepto on October 17, 2007, 07:03:00 PM
Gonga is illegal because the government can't control it, just like booz in the prohibition, they couldnt control it, so they banned it, now they have full control, weed is TO out of control for them to ever control, so i cant see them ever legalizing it. it just wont happen, if the government is making more money than the people of it, then its not legal.
QUOTE(crackfeen @ Oct 17 2007, 05:04 PM)
most people who try it either like it or don't.. those who don't like it either don't do it at all or do it rarely in social situations.. those who like it, gently fall into the groove of smoking habitually.. and eventually wind up in the burnout club...
in my opinion... physically there might not be anything wrong with it.. but it's the mental dependence that becomes a problem... smoking/alcohol actually bear with them a physical addiction... if weed doesn't, then people don't see it as a problem.. and don't realize that it's affecting them negatively.
not true, i like it plenty, and so does my 2 best friends, but we only smoke like 2 times a month, because we are mature enough to realize that it is indeed a drug, and its not necessary, sure i have burnout friends too, but i have WAY more friends who just smoke when they FEEL like it, and not when they NEED it. weed is not addicting, so ive heard, but if you have a really addictive personality, i suggest NO drug for you. Gonga is from the ground man, God made this for man, its not a chemical some a$$hole created in a lab to make some cash money, its natural, and therefore should be used as such.
Post by: blame canada on October 17, 2007, 07:39:00 PM
And no I don't smoke (occasional cigar, like maybe a handful a year lol) and no I don't care either way if it's illegal or legal
Post by: crackfeen on October 17, 2007, 09:55:00 PM
QUOTE(NKI Klepto @ Oct 17 2007, 09:39 PM)
. Gonga is from the ground man, God made this for man, its not a chemical some a$$hole created in a lab to make some cash money, its natural, and therefore should be used as such.
haha i'm sorry but that statement has always cracked me up. and it comes up in every one of these conversations... you ofcourse understand that it holds for nothing... at this point... the biggest names in drugs are weed, shrooms, coke, heroin... remind me again what a$$hole made them in a lab?
ofcourse there's the plethora of manmade drugs like E, speed, pcp.. all that good stuff.. but those are still the very same chemicals that god made..
as far as the government control goes.. ofcourse they can control it just not a hundred percent. as soon as the bill gets passed, along with the bill you'll have a vendor's license and certain restrictions... you'll always have your pot farmers selling some tiny fraction of their stuff under the table (but the majority will need to be documented).. and you'll have it coming in over the borders... ofcourse as soon as the government steps in.. prices will skyrocket.. and there will be tariffs on nondomestic marijuana... honestly.. i don't think anyone wants to play that game. you might not want it to be harshly punished but as far as actual legalizing or promoting.. nuh uh..
let's just keep things the way they are.. the people that want it, never have problems finding it and if they're smart they're never getting caught... and the people that don't want it can live in their own world pretending that nothing is happening around them because it's illegal.
Post by: shanook on October 17, 2007, 10:52:00 PM
QUOTE(crackfeen @ Oct 18 2007, 05:31 AM)
haha i'm sorry but that statement has always cracked me up. and it comes up in every one of these conversations... you ofcourse understand that it holds for nothing... at this point... the biggest names in drugs are weed, shrooms, coke, heroin... remind me again what a$$hole made them in a lab?
ofcourse there's the plethora of manmade drugs like E, speed, pcp.. all that good stuff.. but those are still the very same chemicals that god made..
as far as the government control goes.. ofcourse they can control it just not a hundred percent. as soon as the bill gets passed, along with the bill you'll have a vendor's license and certain restrictions... you'll always have your pot farmers selling some tiny fraction of their stuff under the table (but the majority will need to be documented).. and you'll have it coming in over the borders... ofcourse as soon as the government steps in.. prices will skyrocket.. and there will be tariffs on nondomestic marijuana... honestly.. i don't think anyone wants to play that game. you might not want it to be harshly punished but as far as actual legalizing or promoting.. nuh uh..
let's just keep things the way they are.. the people that want it, never have problems finding it and if they're smart they're never getting caught... and the people that don't want it can live in their own world pretending that nothing is happening around them because it's illegal.
shrooms and pot both come from the ground, heroine and coke are derived from natural sources..but when they are ready to be taken they are FAR from natural, coke and heroine both are very very condensed. you can't just fine coke and heroine in its "usable drug" state just growing out of the ground like you can pot and shrooms..that's like saying chocolate is purely natural, because the cocao beans are grown naturally, don't bash the kid he has a point.
i used to think exactly like you, that "what does it matter if i can get my stuff, not get caught, and be fine." but if alcohol were prohibited again people would be bitching left and right, even though there would most definitely be an underground network of bars and stuff.
legalization isn't about making it easier to get pot and smoking it where you want, it's about the fact that there is no reason behind the illegalization of it other than the government not being able to make money off of it.
it's unexplainable, but of course you're not going to completely agree with me unless you smoke pot as well, but imagine something that you like, being outlawed simply because of a greedy monetary issue, it would piss you off, and that's why pot being illegal pisses smokers off. it has nothing to do with the ease of smoking.
and btw, not all smokers turn into burnouts, a vast majority might, but that's not everyone.
my best friends and i all smoke a decent amount. all of us do well in our classes, participate regularly in competitions and events around town, and have fun while we're sober. i have no "dependence" on marijuana, i do it because i have fun with my friends when i smoke. i don't have to smoke to make myself feel better, i only know one person that is a "burn out" and that's the reason he smokes.
Post by: lostboyz on October 18, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
The reason prohibition was revoked was not because everyone bitched, it is because alcohol is the only "drug" that can kill you if you quit cold turkey from withdrawls. It was creating havoc in hospitals. Illegal sales of alcohol also created a market for crime syndicates to make lots and lots of money.
If all drugs were legal no one would do meth, which is a terrible drug that is sadly rampant in this area of the US
heroine was made by a pharmaceutical as a drug to ween people off of morphine, it may have "natural" ingredients but it is a very processed form.
Post by: NKI Klepto on October 19, 2007, 08:39:00 PM
QUOTE(shanook @ Oct 18 2007, 01:28 AM)
shrooms and pot both come from the ground, heroine and coke are derived from natural sources..but when they are ready to be taken they are FAR from natural, coke and heroine both are very very condensed. you can't just fine coke and heroine in its "usable drug" state just growing out of the ground like you can pot and shrooms..that's like saying chocolate is purely natural, because the cocao beans are grown naturally, don't bash the kid he has a point.
thank you. thats what i was getting at.
Post by: ausmods on October 20, 2007, 01:40:00 AM
The only thing I have against (some) pot users, is that the majority of them (from my experience at high skool) is that they just do it so they look cool and so theyre gAnGsTa, and think everyone else is a pussy cause they dont smoke it. Those stupid faggots need to die.
Otherwise, it might be far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco, but I dont care... Im mainly interested in whats legal and what isnt. I want to have a future, and by going and smoking pot and (possibly) getting caught, is just stupid.
My 2 cents.
This post has been edited by ausmods: Oct 20 2007, 08:41 AM
Post by: shanook on October 21, 2007, 11:43:00 AM
QUOTE(ausmods @ Oct 20 2007, 08:40 AM)
I personally have no problem with people smoking pot, but I wouldnt smoke it myself.
The only thing I have against (some) pot users, is that the majority of them (from my experience at high skool) is that they just do it so they look cool and so theyre gAnGsTa, and think everyone else is a pussy cause they dont smoke it. Those stupid faggots need to die.
Otherwise, it might be far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco, but I dont care... Im mainly interested in whats legal and what isnt. I want to have a future, and by going and smoking pot and (possibly) getting caught, is just stupid.
My 2 cents.
actually getting caught smoking pot wont' put you on much of a penalty, definitely wont' stay on your records..i'm pretty sure everything under an ounce is simply probation. and not many people have an ounce on them. either way, this isn't about the morality of smoking and whether it's right or wrong and wht the possibilites of getting caught are. it's about why it's illegal. other than the government money issue with it no one has presented substantial information about why pot is illegal
Post by: gcskate27 on October 21, 2007, 02:10:00 PM
you say its not about the morality or whether its 'right or wrong' and then say its about why its illegal...? thats generally why things are illegal... at some point someone thought marijuana was a danger, therefore immoral and 'wrong': THATS WHY ITS ILLEGAL...
itll take a lot more than talking about it on an xbox forum to affect change so hop to it if youre that bothered...
Post by: damam on October 21, 2007, 02:50:00 PM
QUOTE(NKI Klepto)
Gonga is from the ground man, God made this for man, its not a chemical some a$$hole created in a lab to make some cash money, its natural, and therefore should be used as such.
QUOTE(shanook)
shrooms and pot both come from the ground, heroine and coke are derived from natural sources..but when they are ready to be taken they are FAR from natural, coke and heroine both are very very condensed. you can't just fine coke and heroine in its "usable drug" state just growing out of the ground like you can pot and shrooms..that's like saying chocolate is purely natural, because the cocao beans are grown naturally, don't bash the kid he has a point.
I always thought this arguement was ridiculous as well. Should you abondon your house just because it was not naturally made? Electricity? Most of the foods you eat. Your xbox is just as addictive (atleast it is for me) and fun and it is not exactly growing from mother earth in a premade form or in natural concentrations, nor is the TV I play it on. G-d gave us a brain to create these wonderful tools such as refined sugar, wood planks, acid, hash, and xbox's and "should be used as such".
Trust me, if ganja ever does become legal, some "a$$hole", probably gore and rummy to be precise, will be making tons of cash off of it. someone always does. Dont believe me? We can all grow our own tabacco right now. We can also grow our own teas too. So what percentage of the smokers and tea drinkers grow their own?
QUOTE(gcskate27)
blah, blah, blah... why is jaywalking illegal? removing tags from mattresses? not drinking till 21? sodomy and oral sex in most states?
you say its not about the morality or whether its 'right or wrong' and then say its about why its illegal...? thats generally why things are illegal... at some point someone thought marijuana was a danger, therefore immoral and 'wrong': THATS WHY ITS ILLEGAL...
you say its not about the morality or whether its 'right or wrong' and then say its about why its illegal...? thats generally why things are illegal... at some point someone thought marijuana was a danger, therefore immoral and 'wrong': THATS WHY ITS ILLEGAL...
Thats why you need to actively campeign against these things. I regularly write my rep's telling them things like I trust you, and I know that you wont abuse these outdated laws, but can you guarantee that no one will in the future? Do the right thing and over turn these laws. We should all be doing the same thing.
Ironically, earlier this year I wrote my Senetor, who happens to Sen. Craig about sex laws between consenting adults including consentual sodomy and oral sex and how they should be repealed. I just got a standard form letter back:P
QUOTE(gcskate27)
itll take a lot more than talking about it on an xbox forum to affect change
awhh hell, you mean ive been wasting my time here all these years
Post by: crackfeen on October 22, 2007, 04:08:00 PM
QUOTE(damam @ Oct 21 2007, 05:26 PM)
Ironically, earlier this year I wrote my Senetor, who happens to Sen. Craig about sex laws between consenting adults including consentual sodomy and oral sex and how they should be repealed. I just got a standard form letter back:P
oh my god what did it say?! that's been bugging the hell out of me for a long long time...
i effin hate sodomy laws... although as my sex class teacher told me "who's gonna find out?"
Post by: Reaper527 on October 23, 2007, 05:39:00 PM
1. Keeping it illegal creates a violent blackmarket for it that results in more crime. If it was legal, this market would disappear as you would be able to get it at any gas station or convenience store.
2. Go ahead and legalize it, and tax it the same way cigarettes are taxed. rather then wasting billions of dollars, over filling the prisons, and wasting officers time on this when they could be going after murderers and rapists. end result is incoming cash flow other then a tremendous waste of tax payers money.
3. Someone already mentioned this, but its just modern day prohibition.
Post by: damam on October 24, 2007, 04:49:00 PM
QUOTE(crackfeen @ Oct 22 2007, 11:44 AM) 
oh my god what did it say?! that's been bugging the hell out of me for a long long time...
it was just the standard form letter blah blah thank you for expressing your oppinion, blah blah stance is for "family values" blah blah blah. I just thought it was funny given the timing. Craigs a schmuck, I have never really liked him.
QUOTE(crackfeen @ Oct 22 2007, 11:44 AM)
i effin hate sodomy laws... although as my sex class teacher told me "who's gonna find out?"
thats simply not good enough. no body believed that anyone would enforce New Yorks draconian gun laws, then along came rudy. Politicians use these archaic laws when it suits them, and generally to oppress a specific group. The technology may be such one day that they can find out. These laws that generally have to do with privacy need to be rescinded.
Post by: cerealkillajme on October 24, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
Marijuana was opposed by the big industries cause it could be used for many, many other things than smoking. It can be used to make clothes, paper, food, possibly fuel, and many other things.
Few quotes:
QUOTE
Hemp is the standard fiber of the world. It has great tensile strength and durability. It is used to produce more than 5,000 textile products, ranging from rope to fine laces, and the woody "hurds" remaining after the fiber has been removed contains more than seventy-seven per cent cellulose, and can be used to produce more than 25,000 produces, ranging from dynamite to Cellophane.
QUOTE
Hemp being from two to three times as strong as any of the hard fibers, much less weight is required to give the same yardage. For instance, sisal binder twine of 40-lb. tensile strength runs 450 ft. to the lb. A better twine made of hemp would run 1280 ft. to the lb. Hemp is not subject to as many kinds of deterioration as are the tropical fibers, and none of them lasts as long in either fresh or salt water.
QUOTE
Of the 3 million plus edible plants that grow on Earth, no other single plant source can compare with the nutritional value of hempseeds. Both the complete protein and the essential oils contained in hempseeds are in ideal ratios for human nutrition. Only soybeans contain a higher percentage of protein. However, the composition of the protein in hempseed is unique in the vegetable kingdom. Sixty-five percent of the protein content in hempseed is in the form of globulin edestin.1 (The word edestin comes from the Greek "edestos," meaning edible.)
QUOTE
Even more important for building a strong immune system, hempseeds are the highest source in the plant kingdom of essential fatty acids. These essential oils, linoleic and linolenic acids, are responsible for the luster in your skin, hair, eyes, and even your thought processes. They lubricate (clear) the arteries and are vital to the immune system.
Alot of the book talks about how things were before, during, and after the illegalization of Marijuana. It was actually used ALOT in the early 1900's before it was banned in 1938 (or somewhere in the area).
Post by: NKI Klepto on October 26, 2007, 12:57:00 PM