Post by: Xbox-Scene on August 02, 2007, 10:25:00 PM
Raid casualty comes forward to tell his story Posted by HSDEMONZ | August 2 23:49 EST | News Category: OffTopic |
| HSD - Hours before the raids were news and broadcast across the net and the mass media, an XS member (FallsInc) tried to warn those of us in the inner circle that the noose was about to tighten around US Modchip shops. In all honesty many amongst us didn't give too much credence to the tip. Those of us running this site aren't running Modchip shops. To our Utter shock and dismay, hours later we watched as one shop after another in the US market either went down, stopped answering the phones and stopped taking orders. Shops, big and small across 16 states were raided, and had modding, piracy, and alot of unrelated goods and materials confiscated under the wide brush strokes of the DCMA. The following is a firsthand account, written in his own words of the last 24 or so hours in the life of FallInc. FallsInc - When ICE hit me, they had a warrant for my grandma's house where I had all my packages sent. They had a picture of the house, and a description of it, meaning they were ready to come find me. When they were there, they didn't find much, since I hadn't had my computer and most modding stuff there for a while, but I continued to have the orders sent there for security of the packages. They went in the house and woke everyone up and watched them get dressed and started going though everything that was in my old room, and the stuff I had in the garage. They took anything that was related to gaming. They opened all the mail I had waiting for me there (which included someone's Xbox and $150 for a mod and 400gb), and took all the consoles and all console parts that I had stored there they even took my original xbox1 games, that were in retail cases. They took my 360, power brick and video cable, while its modded with xtreme 5.1b, it has never had 1 single burned game booted on it. They also felt it necessary to take all my old Xbox parts, mostly dead, my controllers for the 360 and Wii (?) and packed it in a box, and left. They got my phone number from my grandma and they called me, but I was sleeping, just like everyone else in Ohio. They eventually figured out where I was, and came to find me at my girlfriends' house. They asked me about modding and what I did, and how I did it. They showed me the list of modchips that they collected, and asked me if I ever imported modchips from Canada. I told them I did, but I didn't know it was a Canadian site until after I made the order. They asked me how much money I made, and how many mods I've done, and how many chips I still had, and where they were and where my computers were. I wasn't forced to turn over my stuff since they didn't have a warrant for where it all was, but they told me that if I volunteered it, it would look better when the case is reviewed. They also said that I would have a better chance of getting it back (at first, they promised that I would get it back in 10 days, but once we got to the location, that was changed to "better chance" and "looks better in the eyes of XX". I did the only thing I felt I could do, I let them take what they wanted. We went to where I had my workshop area. They took my laptop, and desktop, and the soldering iron (which was one of their main things to find for some reason). All the chips and relative parts were taken on the recommendation of the computer forensics guy who was to be doing the analysis on my things. In their defense, the ICE people who came to my girlfriends house were nice people, and they tried to help me make the right decision. I knew they were just doing their job, but I have been out of work since early may, and modding is the only thing that was keeping me above water with the bills. Now I can't mod, and I can't even sell anything off to pay for bills either since it has all been confiscated due to a ludicrous interpretation of the DCMA. Now it's all said and done, and I just have to wait for them to decide what I did wrong, but while I'm waiting, I have NOTHING of any worth anymore, other than a computer monitor, and my car. Because of what happened I'm not allowed to see my girlfriend and our 4 month old daughter, and last night, I slept in my car and my girlfriend sent me a text message telling me it felt like someone was taking me away from her. They took my life away. I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, rather than going after the people that are responsible for the bootlegs being available. HSD - Xbox-Scene and it's affiliate sites do not condone or endorse piracy, however we do strive to discuss, educate, and explore methods of modifying and operating game consoles in ways not originally intended or envisioned by the manufacturers. We whole heartedly believe in the right to backup your investment. This act in and of itself isn't legal in many jurisdictions. Running a "modchip" store, site or service in many jurisdictions isn't legal. XS advises that anyone, regardless of country you are in take the time to educate yourselves on what is legal, and not legal in your jurisdiction. FallsInc wasn't some large modchip site or service. He was an individual making a few coins on the side. While his story won't be the last we'll hear about the raids, we do encourage everyone reading, especially those in the US to take the time and the measures necessary to ensure that you won't be in the next batch of raids. This isn't JUST a problem for the United States. Europe isn't exempt from the broad strokes of the bloated DCMA legislation. Europe in 2001 passed the EU copyright Directive which has many similarities to the DCMA. There are many good resources on the net about the DCMA and the EUCD. Wikipedia is a good start Digital Millennium Copyright Act. I'd like to thank FallsInc for coming forward and sharing his story with us. |
Post by: HSDEMONZ on August 02, 2007, 09:58:00 PM
Post by: Base8 on August 02, 2007, 09:59:00 PM
Sorry man...
Post by: SueMiBlitch on August 02, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
i do not condone piracy... the people out there selling pirated games are the real criminals and should be stopped... those of us who look at modding as a hobby or a way of expanding our console system, to put XBMC on or play some drunken super mario war are not a threat to the industry... there are many that would want that but aren't technologically savy to do it themselves need like FallsInc to help
special interest lobby groups are ruining the governing system and protecting the interests of those with money enough to bribe those in power... this whole thing is FUBAR and the money and resources would have been better spent to fight real pirates, pedophiles, murders, rapists or sending aid to africa... but that is not a priority to the corporate bottom line
this whole thing is FUBAR
Post by: blame canada on August 02, 2007, 09:32:00 PM
Fucking government, they could not give a shit about us little people (not physically) here while they go sip fucking whatever they drink, sitting back watching oil hit records laughing as they make billion $ profits, dropping trillions on wars that don't accomplish shit (also while attempting to cover up a good althete and soldiers death), turning a blind eye to millions of illegals getting jobs us hard working citizens strive for, and at the end of the day, they can sleep easy over it.... It just doesn't make sense B
I feel for ya Inc and I hope everything works out
Post by: Altima NEO on August 02, 2007, 10:14:00 PM
Post by: pirichios on August 02, 2007, 09:55:00 PM
they do not sell drugs, they do not kill people, commit fraud, this is such bullshit
i hope they take this to court and change shit around its time for these guys to rattle these guys asses
Post by: FallsInc on August 02, 2007, 10:32:00 PM
i only provided a soldering service, a service for people who didn't have the skill to do it themselves. i just don't understand why they think that bringing me to my knees in public is going to stop piracy.
Focusing this much time, effort, and taxpayer money on something like this, will result in no change in the amount of people downloading games, and the "estimated losses" of the gaming/movie/music industry will continue to rise.
EDIT: lots of people are asking about giving donations. while i don't really feel like i am worthy of such a thing, i am in no position to turn them down, so i added 2 paypal links to my website. feel free to use them if you deem nessecary.
http://www.fallsinc.com
This post has been edited by Chancer: Aug 3 2007, 10:16 AM
Post by: majik655 on August 02, 2007, 10:34:00 PM
1. Why can you not see your girlfriend or baby? You are not being held are you? What right do they have to stop you from your girlfriend and baby?? (bastards)
2. please I hope this question does not offend you but.. since you are a SMALL just some joe blow installing chips.. how do you think they "found" you? meaning there are I would say HUNDREDS of "small" time installers and why do you think they picked you?? I mean look at craigslist.. that alone should keep the ICE happy then.
::EDIT:: never mind I guess on question 2 (sorry) I see it was a sting.. I am assuming this same "sting" of modding a wii for under cover agent was everyones downfall?? (bastards)
AGAIN I am very sorry for you and your family.. it is just rediculous what they have done. ESPECIALLY if they do not allow you to see your family.
If there are places for donations to be sent.. put up the info maybe some help will come your way.
This post has been edited by majik655: Aug 3 2007, 05:36 AM
Post by: pirichios on August 02, 2007, 10:35:00 PM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 06:32 AM) 
i would just like to say that i have never sold a backup/downloaded game, despite being asked all the time about games. it's easy to pick up that ICE wanted backups, and people using them, but having an undercover agent buy a chipped wii from me, and then raid my house cause i got 12 modchips from Canada is just ridiculous.
i only provided a soldering service, a service for people who didn't have the skill to do it themselves. i just don't understand why they think that bringing me to my knees in public is going to stop piracy.
i'm not going to say that i never downloaded anything in my life... i thought napster was the coolest thing when i was 14 and i still download to see if i will like something before i make a non-returnable purchase, but focusing this much time, effort, and taxpayer money on something like this, will result in no change in the amount of people downloading games, and the "estimated losses" of the gaming/movie/music industry will continue to rise.
if i were you i would get a good lawyer, if you feel that what you have done is not wrong then you must fight back in court
Post by: SupaDawg on August 02, 2007, 10:37:00 PM
We feel your pain. If there is ANYTHING the community can do to help out your situation i am sure that i do not stand alone in telling you that we'd do our best to help.
This post has been edited by SupaDawg: Aug 3 2007, 05:39 AM
Post by: DuckOfDeath on August 02, 2007, 10:50:00 PM
My condolences all around, to every innocent chipper who got caught up in this.
-Duck!
Post by: ---=Snyper=--- on August 02, 2007, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: FrostyTheSnowman on August 02, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
I feel for you man, but don't let that shit get you down, keep your head up.
P.S. I also hope that your lady and your baby are doing well.
Post by: sgr215 on August 02, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
How can one abide by the laws if they are always changing and interpreted in just about any way to fit ones agenda?! I realize not understanding a law isn't a defense but things are starting to end up where if the government wants us locked up, or made an example of, they can easily interpret a law so that it makes us a criminal. The government isn't run by the people anymore, it's run by the corporations.
Post by: Mr Invader on August 02, 2007, 10:54:00 PM
Post by: coldasice on August 02, 2007, 10:21:00 PM
EDIT: Am I the only one who is reminded of those few people who got raided for downloading pirated music a few years back?
I did some more research on this law. Here is the link to the contents of the DCMA. If you look under Chapter 12 Sec 1201 in 2 B. It states:
No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--
has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
Sadly that is what most mod chips are used for
Post by: AddNtoX on August 02, 2007, 11:04:00 PM
"asked me if I ever imported modchips from Canada. I told them I did" plead guilty ur done, dont let them in ur home again unless they have a warrant for that premises, dont say anything ever, you're not a lawyer. If the equipment they seized is deemed part of a crime you'll never see it again, its evidence, you admitted to a crime pretty much. This is why more people need to know their basic rights.
Post by: trey85stang on August 02, 2007, 10:30:00 PM
QUOTE(blame canada @ Aug 3 2007, 05:08 AM) 
It sucks that the second those assholes see a soldering iron hit pcb, they automatically think piracy and fuck up someones life like that...
Fucking government, they could not give a shit about us little people (not physically) here while they go sip fucking whatever they drink, sitting back watching oil hit records laughing as they make billion $ profits, dropping trillions on wars that don't accomplish shit (also while attempting to cover up a good althete and soldiers death), turning a blind eye to millions of illegals getting jobs us hard working citizens strive for, and at the end of the day, they can sleep easy over it.... It just doesn't make sense B
I feel for ya Inc and I hope everything works out
putting that mod chip in a console defeats the security in place... it is illegal.
Post by: makaveli91 on August 02, 2007, 11:12:00 PM
Post by: sgr215 on August 02, 2007, 10:36:00 PM
QUOTE(AddNtoX @ Aug 3 2007, 01:04 AM)
if they dont have a warrant for the premises you are in never ever ever ever let them into your home, dont talk to them without a lawyer. the second you speak to them you basically gave up your rights. When you said ok they can have your laptop you gave in. Up until that point they had no right to take it AND they cant bring that up in court since the laptop WAS NOT on the premises that the warrant was executed on. Theyre not your friends they'll tell you it will look good in court they say that so you hnd it over. And as for the getting your equipment back faster...if theyre prosecuting you, you wont get it back at all. Remember you dont mod consoles..you fix them. And i repeat NEVER EVER EVER say a word to law wnforcement in such a predicament without a lawyer even the shittiest cheapest ambulance chaser is better than your own judgement.
The damage has already been done but you're right. Law enforcement actually uses a lot of psychological games to obtain information and/or items they aren't legally allowed to obtain. They first act very nice and tell you it'll be in your best interest to help, they will say kind words to the judge, etc. If that doesn't work they will try scare tactics and make it seem like you're looking at a long prison sentence. The damage has already been done here but if anyone else gets hit get a lawyer ASAP and say nothing. They aren't your friends and the prosecutor won't help you. They are working for one reason, to get a prosecution! The only one who'll help is your lawyer!
Post by: II BJ II on August 02, 2007, 11:13:00 PM
Post by: Hopeful on August 02, 2007, 11:14:00 PM
QUOTE(majik655 @ Aug 3 2007, 05:34 AM) 
1. Why can you not see your girlfriend or baby? You are not being held are you? What right do they have to stop you from your girlfriend and baby?? (bastards)
I could be wrong but I don't think he's actually being legally forbidden to see her.
I think he probably means the girl's folks (or maybe his) went postal over the "shock" of "law enforcers" arriving in his name, and are reacting like nazis. The "because of what happened" seems to also hint such.
Post by: Xx The 0ne xX on August 02, 2007, 10:38:00 PM
QUOTE(trey85stang @ Aug 3 2007, 01:06 AM)
putting that mod chip in a console defeats the security in place... it is illegal.
whenever they just GIVE U A FREE CONSOLE its illegal, thats like putting a new engine in ur own car that u paid for being illegal, i paid 400 dollars, fuck m$ or anyone telling me i cant put what i want in it, im not supporting piracy, i think that you should pay for your games because THAT is STEALING, and good luck to u man, i hope everything turns out ok in the end.
Post by: BoNg420 on August 02, 2007, 10:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Aug 3 2007, 12:54 AM)
If the government wanted to stop modding from happening, they would go after the manufacturers instead of guys like Fallsinc. I dont know why they aren't and its wrong to do so. Almost like killing the messenger.
Most likely just trying to set an example.
Post by: FrostyTheSnowman on August 02, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 2 2007, 11:13 PM)
Wow this guy is really dumb. He's acting like he's the victim (his gf said their taking you away from me) just shows he needs to be put in jail. "They" are not doing this too you..you did this too yourself.. installing mod chips and selling is clearly illegal. Like he said he didn't do this on the side for a lil money.. he lived off it. This was his only job making profit the illegal way.
If you think someone who installs modchips for a living is a criminal, then you are on the wrong site.
Post by: bone135 on August 02, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
QUOTE(sgr215 @ Aug 2 2007, 11:54 PM)
The government isn't run by the people anymore, it's run by the corporations.
That's what Mad Money host Jim Cramer always says. And it is the truth.
If the people could decide what there taxpaying dollars went to, I sure it wouldn't be to stop moding. I know many people die from those dang modders, and wicked soldering skills, but I still think they would want other things investigated first.
Post by: SovietSlayer on August 02, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Second while i feel bad that modding was the only way for you to make money. Just like selling crack this is illigeal. While modding might not harm people like crack its still illegal. What you are doing I respect but it is still in the gray zone of the law.
I hope they dont make an example out of you and everything works out okay.
Post by: Hopeful on August 02, 2007, 11:26:00 PM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 3 2007, 06:13 AM)
Wow this guy is really dumb. He's acting like he's the victim (his gf said their taking you away from me) just shows he needs to be put in jail. "They" are not doing this too you..you did this too yourself.. installing mod chips and selling is clearly illegal. Like he said he didn't do this on the side for a lil money.. he lived off it. This was his only job making profit the illegal way.
The issue is that the law has no right to label things like this illegal. Hence people shouldn't be treated this way for this. There's no reason or right at all to justify this being "illegal".
Intellectual "property" is bullshit. You can't own an idea and what people do with it just because you realized it first. If you sell someone hardware, they have the right to modify its parts however they want to.
If your physical item is sold in stores across the country, you can't claim in/on the package that you're only selling a license to use it. That's bullshit and no one has the right to treat hardware sales or people that way.
Post by: AddNtoX on August 02, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
Maybe soemone will grow some balls and raid microsoft for evidence that they knew the 360 was flawed by design and we all get an updated 360 with a adequate cooling solution. FAT CHANCE!! tho, right?
Post by: Mr Invader on August 02, 2007, 11:31:00 PM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 3 2007, 12:13 AM)
Wow this guy is really dumb. He's acting like he's the victim (his gf said their taking you away from me) just shows he needs to be put in jail. "They" are not doing this too you..you did this too yourself.. installing mod chips and selling is clearly illegal. Like he said he didn't do this on the side for a lil money.. he lived off it. This was his only job making profit the illegal way.
its not illegal if i put a new processor or install and new program in my computer. Why should it be for consoles.
QUOTE(BoNg420 @ Aug 3 2007, 12:15 AM)
Most likely just trying to set an example.
I figured that too. Hopefully alot of people will hear Fallsinc's story and do something about it, whether they form petitions or be more careful when modifying consoles.
This post has been edited by Mr Invader: Aug 3 2007, 06:32 AM
Post by: SpankIt on August 02, 2007, 11:32:00 PM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 2 2007, 11:13 PM)
Wow this guy is really dumb. He's acting like he's the victim (his gf said their taking you away from me) just shows he needs to be put in jail. "They" are not doing this too you..you did this too yourself.. installing mod chips and selling is clearly illegal. Like he said he didn't do this on the side for a lil money.. he lived off it. This was his only job making profit the illegal way.
Do you fail to see how your government has found ways to attack their citizens? Yes it is illegal however keep in mind that MP3 player (because it allows you to play copyrighted materials. Your computer because it can rip mp3's. Your dvd/cd burner even. This law is fucked. As it turns out this law almost makes it illegal to live nowadays. Just depends how far they want to take it. Its designed to be very vague so they can do what they want with it. Get the facts before you make a stupid comment like that.
This post has been edited by SpankIt: Aug 3 2007, 06:35 AM
Post by: appleguru on August 02, 2007, 11:32:00 PM
Here's to hoping we can get people to stand up for what they believe in. I know I certainly don't have the courage to do it myself, but the DMCA, as it stands, is a terrible, terrible law. It stifles creativity, prevent real competition, and makes things that have no right being illegal a federal offense. I never thought I'd see the day where the law was (ab)used against installers and chip sellers that had no hand in piracy. Clearly I was wrong.
The fact that we're wasting taxpayer's money and that we diverted hundreds of personnel whose job it is to protect our borders away from their jobs to go after people like us is sickening.
The money is meaningless to me; as a college student what the ICE seized from my house was well over half of everything to my name... But in the end it's just money. I did what I did as a hobby; I modded consoles because I enjoyed it; I've always been addicted to taking things apart and putting them back together and modding was my 'fix'. Alas, no more. Nintendo, the ESA, and anyone else that had a hand in this... Thanks for ruining one of the true pleasures I had in life.
Regarding the absolutely insane "estimated losses" and other FUD being spread around the media, all i can say is that anyone that actually believes those figures to be more than 5% accurate is an idiot.
Using myself as an example, I'll try and illustrate my point:
When I was younger (and at 19, that really wasn't that long ago) the first gaming system I ever owned was a gameboy. My mom bought it for me as a birthday gift, much to the dismay of my dad, and after a big fight and returning one, I was finally allowed to keep it. I played Super Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.. and that was about it. A few years later, my mom bought my brother and me an N64 for Christmas. My dad wouldn't let us keep it, so it ended up going to my cousins... My aunt, who felt bad, ended up buying us a Playstation (1). My favorites for those two systems were Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, 007 Goldeneye, Wave Race 64, Twisted Metal, and a few others. But after a while, the systems' appeal wore off and I stopped playing them.
My cousins had both a Dreamcast, and a Playstation 2, neither of which were too appealing to me... and as such I never had much desire to buy a next generation system.
A few years later, we decided to setup a home theater in my basement. I was looking for a way that I could stream my music, movies, and photos from my desktop PC to my TV screen in the basement. After looking at all sorts of things ranging from an HTPC to just hooking my laptop up to the screen, I found out about Xbox Media Center from a friend that lives in Australia.
After doing some research, I decided that buying and modding my xbox to run linux and xbox media center was the perfect solution; at less than $300 it was the cheapest of everything I had looked at, and its featureset was impressive. So I bit the bullet, bought an xbox, and modded it. Microsoft literally got a new customer because of the modding potential of the system they sold.
XBMC was a dream to use; easily one of the best pieces of software I've seen on any system, let alone a game console. And I loved the fact that it had active community support and that updates were released all the time. Then one day at school, I overheard a few friends talking about halo. At the time, I had no idea what halo was; I figured it was some geek game that nerds played 24 hours a day eliminating any social life they might have otherwise had. And I was right about one thing... The next day, I went out an bought a copy and started to play single player. I was hooked from the start, and for a few weeks I spent the majority of my days neglecting homework, friends and family to play halo. I started playing it over XBConnect to friends across the country, and became even more hooked.
I bought a few more games, including Amped 2, Need For Speed Underground, and a couple of others... And then Halo 2 came out. With advent of Halo 2, I decided to try out Xbox Live. Needless to say, the Halo 2 online experience blew me away and I bought a subscription. Actually, I bought two (one for me, one for my brother), along with 4 copies of Halo 2. My brother and I played on live together, we had LAN parties, we did it all.. and it was a blast.
And then the 360 came along. Naturally, I had to buy one, if only to say I had the latest and greatest. Microsoft had me hooked on their franchise. The launch titles were a bit disappointing; COD2, PD0, PGR3.. all fun, but nothing too spectacular.
I bought a few more games for the 360, hoping to find something I enjoyed... Including, but not limited to: Oblivion, Need For Speed Carbon, GOW, COD3, Amped 3, Crackdown (Mainly for the halo 3 online beta), GRAW, and a couple of others. I bought multiple wireless controllers, a wireless mic, a camera, and a couple of faceplates too.... Microsoft has literally made thousands and thousands of dollars off of me... someone who, had it not been for the modding potential of the xbox, they would never have seen a penny from.
And now of course, they'll never make another cent off me again. With all of my consoles and original games being confiscated I'm in no position to be buying any more games or playing video games at all...
While my situation is likely not the norm, the fact that they go around touting these made up numbers off "losses" from potential game sales is ridiculous. I'd put money on it that in almost 95% of the cases of piracy the pirate would never have been a paying consumer anyways (at least not at the prices being charged). And don't get me wrong; I'm strongly against piracy... but going after individuals that sell modchips that have many MANY legitimate uses is NOT the solution.
This post has been edited by appleguru: Aug 3 2007, 06:38 AM
Post by: Method2kh on August 02, 2007, 11:10:00 PM
Post by: appleguru on August 02, 2007, 11:48:00 PM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 3 2007, 01:13 AM)
Wow this guy is really dumb. He's acting like he's the victim (his gf said their taking you away from me) just shows he needs to be put in jail. "They" are not doing this too you..you did this too yourself.. installing mod chips and selling is clearly illegal. Like he said he didn't do this on the side for a lil money.. he lived off it. This was his only job making profit the illegal way.
He IS a victim. "THEY" ARE the ones responsible for doing this to him. And first and foremost, you're incredibly narrow-minded if you truly believe that all laws are 'right'. Sometimes laws are just plain wrong, and I couldn't think of a more perfect example than the DMCA. When a law is wrong, it is up to the people to change it. Under our current administration, who are strong supporters of big business, it's never going to happen. Hopefully our future will be a bit brighter. While I love this country and the values for which it was founded, I can't help but think that every day we stray further and further away from them.
The DMCA is a law which should not exist. It should NOT be illegal to make, sell, install, or buy modchips. We need to adopt laws like Australia's on this matter, which actually MAKE SENSE! They make modchips legal, but piracy illegal, which is the way it should be! The fact that it is not is only a further testament to the idiocy of the law. And honestly, when the author of the law himself, Bruce Lehman, admits that it was a miserable failure and is not being used as it was intended, it's time to repeal it: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1826/125/
This post has been edited by appleguru: Aug 3 2007, 06:49 AM
Post by: Master Reefed on August 02, 2007, 11:49:00 PM
Microsoft Beats $51 Billion Annual Revenue, Setting Record
http://www.informationweek.com/windows/sho...cleID=201200065
maybe Micrsoft wont have to lay off any american workers, now that we got those crooked ol mod chip installers. ............. O yea, most their employees are outsourced anyway.
Its ok for us to pay 100.00$ for a tank of gasoline though, while oil companies year after year break record profits.
but no,no,no you cant make a "backup" copy of your game(60$)/movie(30-75$)/music cd(12-30),or we are confiscating EVERYTHING!
Its unbelievable where this country is headed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
This post has been edited by Master Reefed: Aug 3 2007, 06:54 AM
Post by: ecucraw on August 02, 2007, 11:55:00 PM
Post by: |GateKeeper| on August 03, 2007, 12:00:00 AM
sorry for what happen to you ..
[email protected]
Post by: BillMan on August 03, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Second of all, make sure to bring up to the judge that in the E3 confrence, microsoft was using Xbox Media Center as well. As you could hear some of the stuff from it in the backround before they forgot to turn down the volume.
So Microsoft is even using Pirated Consoles.
Just an idea. And their is proof of that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So Stick it to Microsoft while your at it.
Also, get a donation link up.
I'm not an attorney, but I know how to get around situations like this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
But since you did coperate, They will probably give you a deffered sentence. You can whith no harm post up your charges and plea bargin. but let your attorney justify this sitaiton for you.
This post has been edited by BillMan: Aug 3 2007, 07:07 AM
Post by: |GateKeeper| on August 03, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: SickB0y on August 03, 2007, 12:07:00 AM
QUOTE(blame canada @ Aug 3 2007, 05:08 AM)
It sucks that the second those assholes see a soldering iron hit pcb, they automatically think piracy and fuck up someones life like that...
Fucking government, they could not give a shit about us little people (not physically) here while they go sip fucking whatever they drink, sitting back watching oil hit records laughing as they make billion $ profits, dropping trillions on wars that don't accomplish shit (also while attempting to cover up a good althete and soldiers death), turning a blind eye to millions of illegals getting jobs us hard working citizens strive for, and at the end of the day, they can sleep easy over it.... It just doesn't make sense B (IMG:style_emoticons/default/uhh.gif)
I feel for ya Inc and I hope everything works out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)
Picking vegetables and washing dishes is something you strive for?? man you serious need to raise your standards buddy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Thanks for sharing FallsInc is amazing how far the government will go to screw the little guy.
This post has been edited by SickB0y: Aug 3 2007, 07:10 AM
Post by: belke on August 02, 2007, 11:39:00 PM
Post by: XeKToReX on August 03, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
As i said, good luck mate!
All the best from AussieLand!
XeKToReX
Post by: krawhitham on August 03, 2007, 12:44:00 AM
They will not go easy on you because of that fact and now they have more proof
I've been down that road before and let me tell you, you're screwed
They might have had problems ever getting a warrant for a not family member, you should have never let them in and then destroyed the evidence
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
QUOTE(majik655 @ Aug 2 2007, 11:34 PM)
1. Why can you not see your girlfriend or baby? You are not being held are you? What right do they have to stop you from your girlfriend and baby?? (bastards)
If there are places for donations to be sent.. put up the info maybe some help will come your way.
If there are places for donations to be sent.. put up the info maybe some help will come your way.
her mom, lol
I guess just pm me if you wanna donate. i don't wanna have this turn into a huge donations thread.
QUOTE(---=Snyper=--- @ Aug 2 2007, 11:53 PM)
FallsInc, you might already been told or know this.. but be careful what you say online right now.
i know. i already took care of the undercover that got me, and i know that others are watching.
QUOTE(belke @ Aug 3 2007, 01:15 AM)
I have to ask, where the people raiding your house full geared SWAT members, or just your everyday police. I always imagined it would be full SWAT. As for them not allowing you to see your girlfriend?..that doesn't sound constitutional
just guys in vests was all. and local PD for backup.
QUOTE(krawhitham @ Aug 3 2007, 01:44 AM)
You gave them your stuff without a warrant, how dumb can one be
They will not go easy on you because of that fact and now they have more proof
I've been down that road before and let me tell you, you're screwed
They might have had problems ever getting a warrant for a not family member, you should have never let them in and then destroyed the evidence
they have little if any sort of proof against me. it will be a long time before soldering becomes illegal
i could have not co-operated, but they already were at my house and picked through everything i had, so i figured i'd do myself a favor, and comply
Post by: ZakMcRofl on August 03, 2007, 01:07:00 AM
That was a really non-smart thing to do. As pointed out before, they are not your friends. They can not offer you deals, they won't "put in a good word". Without the evidence they would have nothing but he handed himself over on a silver plate.
Sad really but everyone should take this opportunity and read up on how to behave when in contact with the police (under charges).
Post by: feflicker on August 03, 2007, 01:32:00 AM
@appleguru, your story reads just like mine bro. I barely even play games. The enjoyment I have got out of modding FAR exceeds any enjoyment I have got out of any of these lame games... The only reason I even bought an Xbox was to try and mod it. I actually bought a 360 and some games, when no mod was available, because I supported MS$ product so f'ing blindly. Now, after this, I must admit, I look at my 360 and feel a little like puking... Ugh. And buying a Wii? I was thinking about it for the kids, but that'll never happen now, screw Nintendo, these press releases make me sick to my stomach.
I actually have made friends modding, people I would have never met before too. Modding isn't some haneous act. There are a lot of us out here who like the tinkering with hardware, the emulators, etc and that is why we are into this scene.
What makes me even sicker, everyone that has CLOSETS full of pirated DVD movies and no one does anything about that. But the Feds are worried about some guy installing chips? Give me a break! Why don't they start F'ing raiding everyone on the doom9 forums! Jackasses...
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 12:56:00 AM
2 donate links on my site now. one for credit card paypal, and 1 for non credit card paypal
http://www.fallsinc.com
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 01:36:00 AM
Post by: devguy on August 03, 2007, 01:37:00 AM
On the other hand, if his rates covered the modchip and/or labor and/or bios (or he didn't explicitly say otherwise) then it may be possible to bring up some sort of charge against him.
I mean if selling modchips is illegal and we argue against it (which we obviously do here), what can we do? Follow Martin's philosophy of Civil Disobedience? Certainly even with the rather large fan base here at XS, we wouldn't even be able to get a single zip codes worth of compassion for our cause. Perhaps TSOP flash and softmodding will have to be the only alternatives. It would be a shame though because even though retailers like Xecuter don't "sell softmods", the benefits of their research and products trickle down to other modding forms. All we can do is let the hummer continue running over mice...
Post by: feflicker on August 03, 2007, 01:09:00 AM
If you read FallsInc's post, he clearly meant the packages were being sent to his Grandma's because it was a RELIABLE place to receive packages. That is what he meant by "SECURE". He wasn't saying he was using his Grandma's house as a front for his criminal enterprise you MORON.
200 Billion dollars wasted in Iraq per year, and you are worried about the $500 FallsInc made on the side and MAYBE didn't pay taxes on? GIVE ME A BREAK! At least he was generating revenue for his city by all the purchases of consoles, discs, etc. in his area? Look at the damn bright side, people chipping consoles and not reporting that income to Uncle Sam isn't some big problem!
As far as "learning lessons", I'm sure FallsInc has learned something from this. His tone and words suggest that. HOWEVER, those of us living in the real god damn world understand that someone getting raided for chipping f'ing consoles is ludicrous. It's one thing if you setup shop at the Mall, another if you do this crap on the side for supplimental income, or hell, JUST TO HELP PEOPLE OUT WHO CAN'T DO IT THEMSELVES.
I never respond to posts like this, or get into "flame wars", but people like you are what's wrong with this world. I'm so sick of people on high horses preaching like this. You know what is 10,000 times worse than what FallsInc did, and people do it every second? Driving drunk. I bet you've done it, and if you have, in my eyes you are a worse criminal than FallsInc ever will be for chipping consoles... You see the point now? Everything is relative, and when you look "at the big picture", AS YOU PUT IT, people like FallsInc getting raided is RIDICULOUS. END OF STORY.
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 01:09:00 AM
QUOTE(jwhazel @ Aug 3 2007, 02:31 AM)
I've been purusing this sites news coverage over the recent modchip raids with little interest. But when I read this story, I absolutely could not believe the seeming praise for this guy. I'm outraged at his outcry for sympathy and the people willing to support him. Whether or not you believe modchips are constitutional or not can be argued back and forth until the end of time. What is an absolute, as it currently stands, is that it is illegal, and FallsInc knew that. You know what? I don't agree one bit with the governments stance on what they consider "illegal drugs". But you don't see me thumbing my nose at the law by growing pot in my back yard or running a meth lab in my garage. I don't agree with a lot of the seemingly inane and arbitrary laws deemed nececssary by our government. But my disagreement doesn't constitute any plausable excuse as an attempt to circumvent them. In short, s�t happens, deal with it.
I'm sorry, but how spineless do you have to be to do this. Regardless of "legal grey areas" you know that what you were doing was illegal. You've clearly indicated that you know it was illegal. And you're attempting to circumvent this by involving your grandmother and letting her take the fall for it? What the hell type of person are you? I'm not above condemnation. I've done some pretty stupid things out of my own volition before, but to involve an innocent person... your grandmother of all people, is probably one of the worst possible things I can think of. I mean seriously, what were you thinking? "Well... if the Feds come knocking, at least it won't be my door."
So let me get this straight? This guy was making a living all the while circumventing the IRS and not paying taxes. His girlfriend had a child in a hospital sponsered by tax dollars. His kid will grow up and most likely go to public school, paid for by our tax dollars. He drives a car on roads that are maintained by our tax dollars. He enjoys a plethora of things made available by taxes paid from common blue collar workers such as myself and many others on this board, and yet his "business" contributes nothing in return? I don't care whether your a single proprietor running a modchip company skimming hundreds of $ or a large international company laundering millions. It's dishonest and hypocritical. And you want our sympathy for it? BS.
Cry me a river. I've been in this situation several times. You wake up and go to work like everything is peachy and tommorow is another day, only to find out that, for whatever reason, you're without a job, out in the cold, no source of income, and no security. You know what? McDonalds is always hiring to flip burgers. Restuarants are always hiring people to wash dishes. The city is always hiring to haul garbage. Don't like it? Tough. I look back and shutter at the many jobs that I had to pick up when times got rough and I had to swallow my pride and do what I had to do in order to take care of myself and the ones that I love. But you know what? Thats part of responsibility. Sometimes you have to do things in life that you don't want to in order to get by. You know why I also don't buy the BS "I don't have money to pay for bills" excuse? Because of stuff like this:
So you have problems paying your bills, but no problems keeping a plethora of video games and electronic accessories which are non staple items? You may not have been living a cushy life, but I refuse to believe the "you were hard off" spiel.
It's stuff like this that makes me feel pity for you. Instead of being able to own up to your mistake and admit that you know what your were doing was illegal (despite whether you agree with it or not), you can't simply accept the blame like a man. You can't simply say "You know what? I f&*#@ed up. I shouldn't have done that, and now I need to work on getting my life straight". No.... instead you pass the buck. Blame others for there mis-doings as if their iniquities overshadow your own and absolve you from all accountability. At what point in your life were you thinking about sitting down and saying "you know, I can't keep blaming other people because of stuff that I do".
And for anyone reading this who think that I am cold hearted or have no compassion, I feel for the the guy. I really and honestly do. I sincerely hope that things get sorted out so that he has the chance to be a responsible provider for his family. But I hope that in doing so, he is able to learn that when he has such a great responsibility, you have to make wiser decisions. I don't mind the fact that some people will side with him, as happpens in any situation. But I can't believe that nobody seems to be seing the bigger picture here.
i'm gonna keep the breif cause your an idiot, but just to clarify, i sent packages there for security of them. meaning: so they won't get stolen when i'm not there to receive them. but my retired grandma is. and everything they took, was almost all free, or nearly. it's taken me 4 years to pile up what they fit into 3 medium sized boxes.
i did not consider this illegal... no one did. why else do you think SO many people would be running mod stores and installer threads?
and as for the taxes part, 2 words buddy: sole proprietorship. i file taxes at the end of the year, just like everyone else.
and fuck you about why i am not working. you don't know me, or my health conditions, so don't even start.
i stopped making excuse a little while after i got out of high school, i accept responsibily for what i did, but i still think it's unfair since i don't put a dent into MS+N's bottom line, and i am not involved in piracy.
Post by: feflicker on August 03, 2007, 01:51:00 AM
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 01:53:00 AM
I know the law is stupid, but its the law.. For example.. the speed limit is 70mph in the UK, but its a stupid law on a clean motorway in a dry day, and loads of people speed, accepting the risk that they could get points/fine if they are caught.
Loads and loads of laws are stupid.. but unfortunately once they are law, they are law.. thats it.. Anyone moaning against this is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing was illegal, but self justified, and assumed he wouldn't get caught.
let me ask you one question (rhetoric), did you know what you were doing was illegal? "did not consider this illegal... no one did." - thats not the point. You KNEW it was, but morally chose to ignore the law, due to your own moral code, which is fine, but unfortunately doesn't trump the actual law. Its the same with the speeding example, I could say morally, to me on a dry clear empty motorway doing 100 is fine, but for me 110 is too much, that could be my cut off. Its totally illegal, but I morally justify it to myself that 100 is fine, but 110 is not? why?
Unfortunately even thou he is on the bread line, that just way it is.. Look at the crooks in your government lying to the senate etc.. but they get away with it. If history tells you anything, its always the little man that gets it.
I do feel sorry for you, and not seeing your child is stupid (and not legal), her mum cannot stop you legally seeing your child.. (unless on her property).
Good luck.. I do mean that..
/even though i do question the point (from above)of what you were doing with all the games/console if you cannot provide for you family(housing/food etc..)
Post by: zest on August 03, 2007, 01:21:00 AM
(for you that dont understand the irony in this text please seek help!
Post by: feflicker on August 03, 2007, 02:00:00 AM
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 02:00:00 AM
QUOTE(zest @ Aug 3 2007, 09:57 AM)
Puh! Well done Micro$soft! I was sooo worried that Bill and Co was not going to earn there $9000000/month this year but only 7900000! Now it feels a little bit better! After this raid you have realy proven your point and i am REALY happy! Also a big shoutout to George W and Co! Hope the "sponsore" money from the industry came well in hand for you! God nows you deserv it! We all know how hard time you had with the war in Iraq and everything so you REALY deserv this and not to have a CRIMINAL like Fallinc stealing $10 and $10 of dollars from you! Shame on him! Hope your lobster dinner tastes sweet tonite coz we ALL know that you deserved it! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!
(for you that dont understand the irony in this text please seek help!
ah its good that others share my concern i thought i was the only one
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:03:00 AM
sorry man you relly did shoot youself. i fell for your situation but not using your rights was just plain dumb.
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 01:28:00 AM
QUOTE(joe90 @ Aug 3 2007, 02:53 AM)
Look.. the point is 'if you cannot do the time, don't do the crime'.
I know the law is stupid, but its the law.. For example.. the speed limit is 70mph in the UK, but its a stupid law on a clean motorway in a dry day, and loads of people speed, accepting the risk that they could get points/fine if they are caught.
Loads and loads of laws are stupid.. but unfortunately once they are law, they are law.. thats it.. Anyone moaning against this is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing was illegal, but self justified, and assumed he wouldn't get caught.
let me ask you one question (rhetoric), did you know what you were doing was illegal? "did not consider this illegal... no one did." - thats not the point. You KNEW it was, but morally chose to ignore the law, due to your own moral code, which is fine, but unfortunately doesn't trump the actual law. Its the same with the speeding example, I could say morally, to me on a dry clear empty motorway doing 100 is fine, but for me 110 is too much, that could be my cut off. Its totally illegal, but I morally justify it to myself that 100 is fine, but 110 is not? why?
Unfortunately even thou he is on the bread line, that just way it is.. Look at the crooks in your government lying to the senate etc.. but they get away with it. If history tells you anything, its always the little man that gets it.
I do feel sorry for you, and not seeing your child is stupid (and not legal), her mum cannot stop you legally seeing your child.. (unless on her property).
Good luck.. I do mean that..
/even though i do question the point (from above)of what you were doing with all the games/console if you cannot provide for you family(housing/food etc..)
i interpret it as this: if they do no expressly forbid modchips, then they are not illegal. cd burners violate the DCMA...
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 02:07:00 AM
QUOTE(feflicker @ Aug 3 2007, 09:00 AM)
I don't think people realize how many laws there are. You can walk down the street and literally catch someone breaking a law every 10 seconds. We don't charge everyone. There are tons of laws on the books that are not enforced. Why? Because they aren't practical... Saying that someone deserves to be punished "because it is against the law" is insane. I guarantee every one of these soapbox commentors has a copy of a DVD, a downloaded movie, a pirated MP3, a flashed console, or some other illegal item in their possession. Does that mean they should be charged? NO. Let's let the boys in blue spend their time shutting down methlabs and catching murderers, rapists, and illegal immigrants, PLEASE.
feflicker.. thats fair point, but not justification when you get caught.. You need to understand how government works. There are different departments in the law to go after certain types of crime, its just the way it is. Do you suggest you remove all the police from cybercrime or copyright branches and put them all on the street to catch illegal immigrants.. it just simply doesn't work like that, come on.. you should know that.
Tel me, what law branches would you create and how would you divy up the workforce. You cannot ignore one area becuase it doesn't suit you.. I totally agree 100% no-one is whiter than white, especially the police, it sucks if you get caught for whatever, but the law (no matter how crap) is the law.
Post by: II BJ II on August 03, 2007, 02:12:00 AM
Post by: manicdk on August 03, 2007, 02:12:00 AM
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 09:04 AM)
i interpret it as this: if they do no expressly forbid modchips, then they are not illegal. cd burners violate the DCMA...
Fair point, I hope thats the agument you use in court, and win.. However, i expect you have not read all the fine print of the copy write law, espcailly around modchips, and hence were not fully informed and will loose.
These are clever people, and they know what they are doing, and the law is very clearly the law..
QUOTE(manicdk @ Aug 3 2007, 09:12 AM)
We as consumers have a right to do whatever we want with our consoles! we purchased them!
unfortunately, that is incorrect
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 02:14:00 AM
the guy even told me that the week before they took down a guy that loads of child porn. i just don't see how i can possibly be more worthy of taking down, than someone else like that.
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:15:00 AM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 3 2007, 10:12 AM)
you guys don't understand it goes deeper than just stealing money from the corporations. When your chipping a system for somebody 90% of the time their not using it for "BACKUPS" they go straight home and pirate a couple games off the net. Ok and that not only affects Microsoft itself as a corporation it also affects employees of Microsoft...which lead to layoffs...it effects producers of the game..marketing of the game...its not as big of deal in the video game industry yet, but will soon be if we don't get people like Falls Inc off the street. Piracy is like a disease and Falls Inc. is help spreading that disease. Look at the music industry its almost pointless now to put an album out because of all the pirating...you spend $20 million on marketing and only sell 500,000 albums!! Soon thier will be no music, and you are very narrow minded if you think its just OK to chip systems and not care about the effect it is going to have on other people.
i dont fully agree there alot of pirets where probly not going to buy it anyways. some do indded buy it after downloading it. and some like myself are fully into the homebrew/linux scene and have no backups legit or otherwise. the problem is we all get thrown into the same pool. the losses on game latly is not due to pirets its due to poor games i havent bought crap in some time simply couse there knothing worth owning. now when halo 3 gta or whatever comes out those so called losses are gonna end with a huge spike in game sales.
dont go into music its the same story there hasent been anything worth buying in years they produce crap and wonder why sales are flat.
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 01:41:00 AM
QUOTE(II BJ II @ Aug 3 2007, 10:12 AM)
you guys don't understand it goes deeper than just stealing money from the corporations. When your chipping a system for somebody 90% of the time their not using it for "BACKUPS" they go straight home and pirate a couple games off the net. Ok and that not only affects Microsoft itself as a corporation it also affects employees of Microsoft...which lead to layoffs...it effects producers of the game..marketing of the game...its not as big of deal in the video game industry yet, but will soon be if we don't get people like Falls Inc off the street. Piracy is like a disease and Falls Inc. is help spreading that disease. Look at the music industry its almost pointless now to put an album out because of all the pirating...you spend $20 million on marketing and only sell 500,000 albums!! Soon thier will be no music, and you are very narrow minded if you think its just OK to chip systems and not care about the effect it is going to have on other people.
its amusing how you can call another human being a spreader of disease.... you probably are a real pirate trying to sound like a saint
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 01:41:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 09:14 AM)
i think he means they shouldn't be devoting time and money to stopping people who get modchips mailed to them... which is a far cry from smuggling. they just come in a padded envelope or box. it's not like we pack them in rotten potatos in cargo containers, or put them with coffee grounds, or up peoples asses.
I think the main point is you are not declaring you earnings.. and avoiding paying TAX.. and you will get farked for that..
Silly analogy, but that what they get the big crime family's for, not killing, murder, extortion, but tax evasion.
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 02:19:00 AM
and i have a record of my profits, and i am going to claim it on this years taxes.
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 02:21:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 09:19 AM)
good games sell. look at halo 2. EVERYONE pirated that game in french... and it sold ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE MILLION dollars worth of copies, in 24 hours...
that defense would not work in a court of law.. I think you need to understand the difference between LAW and your moral LAW.
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:22:00 AM
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 01:47:00 AM
QUOTE(joe90 @ Aug 3 2007, 03:21 AM)
that defense would not work in a court of law.. I think you need to understand the difference between LAW and your moral LAW.
i'm just saying that the estimated losses are bogus is all
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 02:23:00 AM
QUOTE(joe90 @ Aug 3 2007, 10:21 AM)
that defense would not work in a court of law.. I think you need to understand the difference between LAW and your moral LAW.
Listen what you me or other members of the forum have to say regarding of the legality of this means SHIT. let the judge decide wether what he did was right or wrong if it comes to court time. at Falls, my recomendation is again, if you felt that you did not do anything wrong, then fight for what you believe in, after all that is the point of living in AMERICA
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:25:00 AM
Post by: FallsInc on August 03, 2007, 02:27:00 AM
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:28:00 AM
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 01:55:00 AM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 3 2007, 09:23 AM)
Listen what you me or other members of the scene have to say regarding of the legality of this means SHIT. let the judge decide wether what he did was right or wrong if it comes to court time. at Falls, my recomendation is again, if you felt that you did not do anything wrong, then fight for what you believe in, after all that is the point of living in AMERICA
I never said what i say means anything.. i just pointing out the fact that the law is the law, and you moral interpretation of it mean shit. But at the end of the day yes you are 100% correct its down the the judge and the evidence shown to him.
/I thought the point of living in amercia was watching your liberties being slowly taken away, under the guide of the GOP protecting your freedoms ..
Post by: luther349 on August 03, 2007, 02:34:00 AM
Post by: TMG8 on August 03, 2007, 02:06:00 AM
Post by: GerbilJammer on August 03, 2007, 02:44:00 AM
Most of this thread is utter stupidity. The DMCA is not clear on anything. It is so vague it allows the governement to interpret it as it sees. We all know most people comprehend things different. To those affected in the raid, I feel for you. Keep your chin up and wait for the "consequences". In most shakedown situations like this, you will prevail.
Post by: d0ck on August 03, 2007, 02:20:00 AM
QUOTE(jwhazel @ Aug 3 2007, 08:31 AM)
I've been purusing this sites news coverage over the recent modchip raids with little interest. But when I read this story, I absolutely could not believe the seeming praise for this guy. I'm outraged at his outcry for sympathy and the people willing to support him. Whether or not you believe modchips are constitutional or not can be argued back and forth until the end of time. What is an absolute, as it currently stands, is that it is illegal, and FallsInc knew that. You know what? I don't agree one bit with the governments stance on what they consider "illegal drugs". But you don't see me thumbing my nose at the law by growing pot in my back yard or running a meth lab in my garage. I don't agree with a lot of the seemingly inane and arbitrary laws deemed nececssary by our government. But my disagreement doesn't constitute any plausable excuse as an attempt to circumvent them. In short, s�t happens, deal with it.
I'm sorry, but how spineless do you have to be to do this. Regardless of "legal grey areas" you know that what you were doing was illegal. You've clearly indicated that you know it was illegal. And you're attempting to circumvent this by involving your grandmother and letting her take the fall for it? What the hell type of person are you? I'm not above condemnation. I've done some pretty stupid things out of my own volition before, but to involve an innocent person... your grandmother of all people, is probably one of the worst possible things I can think of. I mean seriously, what were you thinking? "Well... if the Feds come knocking, at least it won't be my door."
So let me get this straight? This guy was making a living all the while circumventing the IRS and not paying taxes. His girlfriend had a child in a hospital sponsered by tax dollars. His kid will grow up and most likely go to public school, paid for by our tax dollars. He drives a car on roads that are maintained by our tax dollars. He enjoys a plethora of things made available by taxes paid from common blue collar workers such as myself and many others on this board, and yet his "business" contributes nothing in return? I don't care whether your a single proprietor running a modchip company skimming hundreds of $ or a large international company laundering millions. It's dishonest and hypocritical. And you want our sympathy for it? BS.
Cry me a river. I've been in this situation several times. You wake up and go to work like everything is peachy and tommorow is another day, only to find out that, for whatever reason, you're without a job, out in the cold, no source of income, and no security. You know what? McDonalds is always hiring to flip burgers. Restuarants are always hiring people to wash dishes. The city is always hiring to haul garbage. Don't like it? Tough. I look back and shutter at the many jobs that I had to pick up when times got rough and I had to swallow my pride and do what I had to do in order to take care of myself and the ones that I love. But you know what? Thats part of responsibility. Sometimes you have to do things in life that you don't want to in order to get by. You know why I also don't buy the BS "I don't have money to pay for bills" excuse? Because of stuff like this:
So you have problems paying your bills, but no problems keeping a plethora of video games and electronic accessories which are non staple items? You may not have been living a cushy life, but I refuse to believe the "you were hard off" spiel.
It's stuff like this that makes me feel pity for you. Instead of being able to own up to your mistake and admit that you know what your were doing was illegal (despite whether you agree with it or not), you can't simply accept the blame like a man. You can't simply say "You know what? I f&*#@ed up. I shouldn't have done that, and now I need to work on getting my life straight". No.... instead you pass the buck. Blame others for there mis-doings as if their iniquities overshadow your own and absolve you from all accountability. At what point in your life were you thinking about sitting down and saying "you know, I can't keep blaming other people because of stuff that I do".
And for anyone reading this who think that I am cold hearted or have no compassion, I feel for the the guy. I really and honestly do. I sincerely hope that things get sorted out so that he has the chance to be a responsible provider for his family. But I hope that in doing so, he is able to learn that when he has such a great responsibility, you have to make wiser decisions. I don't mind the fact that some people will side with him, as happpens in any situation. But I can't believe that nobody seems to be seing the bigger picture here.
Dude. You're a fucking jackass. Lay off guy. i'm raise my kid just to sell drugs to yours. If you don't got shit to say to help a guy out don't say shit at all. He just needs some help. Down on his luck. You don't agree don't say shit.. Don't have to sit here and pick and bitch through his post like a female. Seriously. Lay the fuck off.
Post by: openxdkman on August 03, 2007, 03:00:00 AM
The more people understand what happened, the more chance we will get in future to prevent this from happening again...
Only huge impact on public can make politics move...
Post by: II BJ II on August 03, 2007, 02:29:00 AM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 3 2007, 03:17 AM)
its amusing how you can call another human being a spreader of disease.... you probably are a real pirate trying to sound like a saintLike one guy earlier posted said he backs up his Disney movies because his kids tear the originals apart. I agree with that. Backing your shit up for personal use.. But I don't agree with people making a business out of it because it suddenly turns a small number into a large one and give a bad impression on people like me and other of this site who do it for personal use and protection instead of personal gain
Post by: Chancer on August 03, 2007, 03:15:00 AM
But if it is illegal then you just have to take it.
I am about to edit out a few of the comments in your first reply to this as I feel under the stress you probably have not realised that you laid yourself open to further problems in what you stated.
Good luck all you can do is state your case and hope it goes down sympathetically.
I took all the Chip fitting services off my site some while ago after a warning and reading this I am glad I did.
When you get the gear back soldering stuff etc, you can still do repairs etc. It is clear the Chip fitting is at the heart of this.
I also don't think you will do time for this. Your GFs mum is being a bit OTT as well. You are hardly a serial killer or a threat to her daughter.
Post by: Home Less on August 03, 2007, 02:40:00 AM
I am deeply sorry for your troubles. this is an awful world we live in: where burglars and murderers wander the streets while nerds are raided for being nerdy.
fuck the RIAA, the MPAA, the FBI, and everyone that destroys lives and spreads fear to support their own greed.
best of luck FallsInc. You, your family, and everyone else affected by these raids will be in my prayers.
Post by: d0ck on August 03, 2007, 03:16:00 AM
these fuckers right ONE game and turn it into 45435436362 each time you get a new car, or a new movie comes out and BAM it's a game. Be orginal. If your game being pirated you obviously did something wrong.
People buy used cheap games or pirated games cause they're pricey.. I got a Family. My son get's everything. I buy games worth my money. Gears of War. I gladly laid out 60 bucks for it. Final fantasy they always have my money. Atlus they can have my cash too.
You got these devs making the same game hyping it like it's going to be great and everyone should have it. they put out a glitchy game with bad graphics or they sit there and take a ps2 libary then port to the psp and expect people to pay 40+ bucks for the same game they played last year.
Shit isn't right and I don't see how they can justify it as so.
If devs would take time. Find what the user likes then go from there.
Guitar hero. I love playing guitar hero. But fuck. I just bought GH2 and now 3 coming out? Most of the songs on 2 I didn't even like. Why don't they get OUR feedback then make a game. Alot less piracy and shit would happen.
I own a regluar xbox just for XBMC. Give us these features. Spend time and let us have what we want. We're spending our HARD earned cash on them make us feel good about getting it..
Example. Sierra games or how ever it's called made Scar Face. Cool. A nice little Grand theft auto type of game.
Don't get me wrong. i'm not one to pirate. Cause honestly. I'm pretty damn lazy and been in enough trouble in my life. But look att he big picture.
ya'know. I buy some of the movie games for my son. That's it. If he wasn't 3 and the free roam envirment didn't keep him mellow they wouldn't get my cash.
All games are the same and devs need to stop. Reason people want homebrew so bad. Go back and play the games we loved cause the new ones suck due to lack of imagination.
Post by: alien2108 on August 03, 2007, 03:17:00 AM
Like there is not enough REAL crime that deserves attention....I am staying in Europe for sure.
Post by: manicdk on August 03, 2007, 03:20:00 AM
Post by: Slag Bag on August 03, 2007, 02:52:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 12:45 AM)
i'm gonna keep the breif cause your an idiot, but just to clarify, i sent packages there for security of them. meaning: so they won't get stolen when i'm not there to receive them. but my retired grandma is.
I'm gonna call major Bullshit on this. Lets read your accounts of the situation posted on the frontpage
"When ICE hit me, they had a warrant for my grandma's house where I had all my packages sent. They had a picture of the house, and a description of it, meaning they were ready to come find me. When they were there, they didn't find much, since I hadn't had my computer and most modding stuff there for a while"
correct me if I am wrong but you said you hadn't had "MOST" of your modding stuff there for a while. That means some was still there and it was all there at some point. That qualifies you as a douchebag. Sounds like your ex-girlfriends mom is a smart lady. Felons don't make good friends..
Post by: Teamxbox on August 03, 2007, 03:51:00 AM
1. Never sell backup games (never did never will - thats just common sense).
2. Offer repair services (this should be perfectly fine and provide a reputable service).
3. Offer soldering and microchip mounting services. (but don't include MODCHIPs in pricing they are evil now).
4. Don't ever have stock piles of consoles in one spot. I personally have never had this much business so thats not a problem for me. Doing this should lower risk of raid effectiveness. It wont stop them from doing raids because im sure they have nothing better to do and they are happy to arrest the innocent as long as they are working themselves.
Helping norm/avg non tech people enjoy modded consoles should not be prevented. Its not like we are predatory lawyers stealing money from our clients. We barely make what the labor is worth in the first place.
If you think installing modchips is wrong then thats your choice, I for one an glad I have options and don't just let corporations determine what I can do with my hardware.
Post by: bucko on August 03, 2007, 03:54:00 AM
Post by: bigg92 on August 03, 2007, 04:01:00 AM
Post by: joe90 on August 03, 2007, 04:15:00 AM
QUOTE(Teamxbox @ Aug 3 2007, 10:51 AM)
I never thought I would see the day small time hobbyist would get attacked so unjustifiably. e first place.
If you think installing modchips is wrong then thats your choice, I for one an glad I have options and don't just let corporations determine what I can do with my hardware.
again.. hobbyist != making money and not paying TAX
and it IS illiegal, I think its stupid.. but the law is the law..
Post by: Dojam on August 03, 2007, 04:22:00 AM
"When I was 7 I stole a small notebook from a local store.
I'm guilty, please send the police to pick me up..."
Just a thought, since we all made some mistakes along our lifes, almost meaningless... So what?
I never killed anyone, I got a college degree, and I´m an architect, I´m going to be a father, I bought my own house.
I dunno, it´s just an ideia...
Post by: thuglord on August 03, 2007, 04:35:00 AM
You have got to be the dumbest SOB on this site and you deserve to be gang raped in the shower. Why would you take the feds to location of your equipment? Do you not understand the meaning of "search warrant"? You just happily gave them the evidence to convict you.
You now have three choices:
1. Stop being a wimp and get a real job.
2. Have your girl go on welfare to support your sorry ass.
3. Say "fuck the feds" and drop your prices by 50% to bring in more customers.
LOL. You are the dumbest criminal on the planet.
Post by: ThUgLoVe on August 03, 2007, 04:12:00 AM
But it will never happen because all Americans nowadays are lazy and blind.this is the very reason crap like this law even gets its foot in the door..
did you get your email about the gas boycott a few months ago?you know the reason nothing changed?NOBODY CARED!!!!
here we have a member base of 350,000+ at one site yet we just let this law stay in place?ever hear of the million man march?American revolution?
if even a group had a chance to change a law i think this would be it..
Post by: The Zep Man on August 03, 2007, 04:35:00 AM
QUOTE(Dojam @ Aug 3 2007, 12:22 PM)
Just an ideia. Xbox-scene has about 350.000 users, what if we all send like 2 or 3 email a day to microsoft admiting small crimes we made along our lives
Also, a lot of those '350.000' accounts are inactive, duplicates or banned. Xbox-Scene does not have 350.000 users.
QUOTE(ThUgLoVe @ Aug 3 2007, 12:48 PM)
All of your hopes and wishes for this guy isn't going to do a damn thing ppl.if you all were really so outraged and thought this was BS you would be willing to put your ass behind your words and do something about it.
But it will never happen because all Americans nowadays are lazy and blind.this is the very reason crap like this law even gets its foot in the door..
QUOTE
did you get your email about the gas boycott a few months ago?you know the reason nothing changed?NOBODY CARED!!!!
No. I just don't read spam. Pretty good chance the mail never arrived at my inbox. And I'm not even going to check it, because I do not care about spam.QUOTE
here we have a member base of 350,000+ at one site yet we just let this law stay in place?ever hear of the million man march?American revolution?
Those are '350,000' accounts, not members. And not all of them are from the USA.QUOTE
if even a group had a chance to change a law i think this would be it..
The thing about a democracy is that it is possible to give the people the illusion of power. Money talks where votes don't.
Post by: jimbobjim on August 03, 2007, 04:43:00 AM
.DVD burner manufacturers.
.DVD player manufacturers.
.The creator of the internet.
.Desktop PC's
.Copy software developers (ie. Nero, AnyDVD, DVDshrink)
.Blank disc manufacturers.
.Download software (ie. Limewire, Azureus)
Off the shelf and with no modifications ALL of the above have the ability to help pirates "destroy" the industry, and in most cases that is their primary use. Yes they can be used for legal activities but mostly they aren't. Now someone please explain the difference between a modchip and the above list. I am confused.
None of this will help M$ anyway... both of their consoles can be modded with software
Post by: srelysian on August 03, 2007, 05:27:00 AM
Post by: Dojam on August 03, 2007, 05:04:00 AM
QUOTE(The Zep Man @ Aug 3 2007, 12:11 PM)
Not everyone around here is from the USA. Sure, Europe might also have some sort of DMCA, but at least they aren't wasting tax money to get some low-risk 'modders' behind bars.
You are wrong about that, I live in Portugal, and I have 2 friends of mine that were caught. And they were "low risk modders".
US, Europe, whatever... It's the same shit, They say jump, and we say how high...
Illegal whatever... Their definition of illegal is if you are doing something that they are not getting money from... Try reading Jean Baudrillard´s book " La Societe de Consommation" to get a glipse of the way things are done.
Bush, Blair, Merkel, Sarkozy, Barroso, Socrates, César, Cleopatra, and a monkey...
Post by: blaize on August 03, 2007, 05:41:00 AM
You knew what you did was illigal, so now you got busted and you complain that there going after the little guys...
ofcourse it sucks that you and your girl are having problems because of it, i do feel bad for you about that.
But come on people, for everyone who ever modded an xbox.. we knew that it was illigal
It's like.. if a person killed 10 people, and the police arrests someone elsewho killed 1 person, what should he say? "why go after the little guys ?!".
I feel bad for you getting into trouble, but hey. you knew it could happen someday.
Post by: openxdkman on August 03, 2007, 05:48:00 AM
Accept it. Stop modding. Put your dreams in a trash bin.
or
Reject it. Keep modding. Protest. Petition. Hope that politics change mind.
If a democracy doesn't allow people to resist (assuming they harm no one) in hope for a change in a law, then it's not really a democracy.
But before the change occurs a few become sacrifices... All we can do is let people know what happened. The expected change here, is that tool sellers don't get sued (just like weapons sellers aren't).
I've read posts related to M$. In this specific raids, the move came from Nintendo. In Asia, the market is FLOODED with modded wii's and illegal copies. I guess they panicked and tried to prevent the same in USA (taking advantage of the badly written DMCA law)
Post by: audi_a8 on August 03, 2007, 05:34:00 AM
If you do it only for your own purpose its legal
Post by: openxdkman on August 03, 2007, 06:33:00 AM
Things need to come back to some sane logic in the mind of politics :
If in the chain "weapon manufacturer"=>"weapon seller"=>"bandit", only bandit is sued, then it should be the same with the chain "modchip manufacturer"=>"modchip seller"=>"pirate".
It's the case with the first chain because "weapon seller"=>"citizen willing to protect himself" exists.
Just being able to prove that "modchip seller"=>"parent willing to prevent disc scratchs" or "modchip seller"=>"programmer willing to homebrew" exists should be enough to prevent troubles with justice.
So DMCA needs to change. That's all.
Just convince your favorite politics to come back to logic, and all will be fine.
And wii modchips allow homebrew. It's gamecube mode but it's homebrew.
Post by: willy134uk on August 03, 2007, 06:34:00 AM
if they think taking out the modchip stores will stop the modding of concoles there very wrong they will just become more lowkey selling drugs is illegal but there's about 10 dealers in most area's they will never stop the moding of concoles!!!!
as for targeting the small guys thats even worse it just proves how shit they are that the only people they can bust are small time modders and they will go back to the office when finished and say they have done a big thing against piracy when in reality they have just stoped some1 doing there hobby!!
all the people that got raided just keep your heads up im sure what they have done is wrong and you wil get all your stuff back your not murderers or rapist your just 1 man with a iron!
Post by: gaming fanboy on August 03, 2007, 06:14:00 AM
Post by: Opoth on August 03, 2007, 06:59:00 AM
QUOTE(belke @ Aug 3 2007, 07:15 AM)
I have to ask, where the people raiding your house full geared SWAT members, or just your everyday police. I always imagined it would be full SWAT. As for them not allowing you to see your girlfriend?..that doesn't sound constitutional
lol, what's a Constitution?
QUOTE(openxdkman @ Aug 3 2007, 01:33 PM)
So DMCA needs to change. That's all.
The DMCA will never change. This country is now run by lobbyists and corporations, not the people. There's just too much money to be made keeping things the way they are.
Post by: __someone__ on August 03, 2007, 07:14:00 AM
Its almost funny because if I have one device in my house that facilitates piracy 10x more then a modchip its a cd burner. Theres a lot of piracy that simply couldn't happen if it wasn't for people owning cd/dvd burners.
One thing I really don't get in terms of intellectual property is Nintendo. In what world can it be right for me to have to purchase super mario brothers 6 times because its on different systems. Especially now when its in a totally 'soft' format. If Wii 2 came out next week and forced everyone to rebuy virtual console games would that be right? Then why do people stand for it just because the systems don't come out a week apart but a few years? If I own smb then I OWN smb... same issue with dvds.. if I bought the matrix on VHS why should I have to rebuy it on DVD, and then HD DVD? Isn't it either you own the license or you own the content, ie you own the cd and can give it away if you want or you own a license to that source material. How can it be you own a license to that medium of source material?
Anyway, FallsInc, good luck with everything and I will be donating. Also I really think people should lay off the, FallsInc is an idiot comments because of his actions with the police... its easy to say 1 thing when you aren't being threatened with legal action from a swarm of police that have just raided your grandma's house. Ultamitely I think FallsInc has earned the respect of this community enough so he can look at this thread for support and not criticism, or name calling.
Post by: 1nsan3 on August 03, 2007, 07:23:00 AM
ive modded peoples counsles , every single time ive done it for free. ive never made money off of this. everything is too easy and takes only a few minutes.
i wont have people send me there, just the locals.
all i can say is ya should of expected it.
its only gonna get worse.
Post by: studio1b on August 03, 2007, 07:31:00 AM
Post by: X-hacker on August 03, 2007, 07:01:00 AM
I got hit by these bast**ds a few year ago. They raided my parent's house.
Me and my dad were in business buying PS2s, I would chip them with the Messiah or the Magic chip, then sell them in the paper with X amount of games.
Yeah, they waited while everyone was asleep and almost booted the door off. What did they find? a broken PS2, around 300 original games(yes! I owned everyone of my games) and my soldering iron. Apparently, this was enough to confiscate and to slap me and my old man with a nice £2000 fine. What made me so bitter is the fact that my dad is disabled, he has arthritis and osteoperosis. When they did come to arrest us both, they threw him around and he was screaming in pain... I f**king hate the police, and trading standards with a f**king passion
Like I said FallsInc, my heart goes out to ya.
Post by: Chancer on August 03, 2007, 07:42:00 AM
QUOTE
then sell them in the paper with X amount of games.
Unless all those games were original, you have nothing to moan about. If you were selling pirate games, you got what you deserved.
Post by: studio1b on August 03, 2007, 07:44:00 AM
Post by: C o s m o on August 03, 2007, 08:09:00 AM
Honest discussion is OK. Insulting Falls, Inc is not. He's staff here. Constructively critical posts are still here. Insults are gone, along with the assholes posting them.
Post by: axess68 on August 03, 2007, 07:33:00 AM
Post by: hot on August 03, 2007, 08:12:00 AM
Post by: SRI-Sajuuk on August 03, 2007, 07:56:00 AM
As for the people that are bitching about chips and mods: You are a member here for a reason. Meaning you own or operate a Modification of console to a degree. so shut the hell up. Piracy is wrong, yes. but Fallsinc was just selling cromwell flashed chips (Correct?) and not pirated games (Again Correct?) or software. (...), so lay off of him.
Thats my 2 cents.
The DMCA is wrong and the Interpretation of te law sucks.
Post by: Jagosix on August 03, 2007, 08:40:00 AM
Example. Remember when VCRs were 1st made available to the public (some of you here weren't even born then)? What was the main goal of a VCR? To record any video broadcast we wanted. Police, FBI, hell every government official & the general public in this country (the world for that matter) had a VCR & recorded a tv or a movie to a Vhs tape. Some of these same people even loaned it to family & friends. VHS tapes were copy protected with macrovison technology (not all of them). Now there were people back then, (like there are now) that found a way to work around the macrovision protection. Some of them just made backup copies of their original tapes. Some made copies of movies that they rented or borrowed from a friend. Some sold them for a profit, while others just made them to help out friends in need. The stores like Wal-mart, Sears, K-Mart, etc.. sold blank vhs tapes. Now these stores are supplying us with the means to record Movies, tv episodes, etc. Shouldn't they also be investigated & shut down?
All retail computers currently come with dvd burners. The retail stores again, supply us with the tools we need to copy any type of media that we can currently see & hear. Whether it from a vcr, dvd, hd-dvd, blu-ray, Xbox, X360, Wii, Ps1-ps3, cable box, satellite, etc. They also make tv-tuner cards for PC that can record anything that has a video output. Video & digital cameras are designed to do what? Record. it's very hard to stop something we keep supplying and thinking that we're aren't going to use these items as we see fit. We bought them so they'll be utilize to serve us.
Now comes the internet. This is another playing field. It's so huge because the entire world & billions of peoples & computers are now tied together for a common goal. To share any & all types of information & ideas. That information includes the good & the bad (as with everything else in life). You have identity theft, people hacking into banks, FBI computers, making drug deals etc. You also have people that Educate, Entertain, Heal, Etc.. all from the internet. It's also a place of business (Good & Bad). Can we stop all things that are considered illegal ? No. Only GOD can accomplish that feat. Will we as nation stop all the so called illegal crimes that happens in this world? No. So.. it seems that some law officials take the shortest & easiest route to deter some potential hackers.
My point, is that this world makes it very easy to copy any type of material, whether it's a bootleg movie, or music cd. They supply us with the necessary tools that anyone of us can purchase at a local retail store such as Radio shack, wal-mart, Staples, Best buy, Circuit City, etc.. I'm not saying you should do something illegal with it, but what's the main purpose of those tools? To record information.
Why do people buy guns? Some to kill. Others to protect. Regardless of the reasons, guns are made to do one thing and that's to KILL. What's the reason for buying a recording device? whether it's a chip, camera, vcr, dvd.. etc.. ? To record. There are so many loopholes in these laws that just doesn't make any sense.
Will this stop the modders..uhmm..no. Will this stop people from downloading items off the internet? No. It might make them think about the consequences of their actions more often.
Think about this people. If no one commits any type of crime from this point on, would we need law enforcement? If no one did anything illegal, would we need the government @ all ? If everybody had a job , would we need to do something illegal to make ends meet? No we wouldn't. But the sad truth is the world doesn't work that way. Some people are greedy, liars, backstabbing, but holes. So we do what we can to survive.
Post by: yazoo32 on August 03, 2007, 08:05:00 AM
I pay x amount of money for a games console, I then should own it outright. I should be able to do what I like with it after that. Whether I paint it a different colour, cut a hole in it and insert a window, replace the HDD with a larger HDD or enhance it with a microchip that allows me to run it as a media center. None of this should be illegal. Even if I backup my personally owned games onto the HDD for easy use should not be illegal. Only if I backup games and make them available to other people who do not own the original should be deemed illegal.
Helping someone out with soldering, whether paid on unpaid, should not be illegal. As long as all relevant Taxes are paid.
What really gets to me is that you can buy DVD players that can play any region encoded film directly from the manufacturer and its not illegal.
M$ has made tons of money of these kids who bought the console cause they could enhance it, alienating these people will only hurt the sales of future consoles.
Post by: axess68 on August 03, 2007, 08:43:00 AM
They are turning America in on itself by doing this crap. For the longest time, we had "Fair Use" rights. Now, I could have all my stuff confiscated because I make a backup of a game I own. It's a right I used to have which has been taken away from me by some greedy corporations and their a-hole lobbyists.
The "Thought Police" are the next step in this de-evolution of our rights.
Post by: dr3yec on August 03, 2007, 08:47:00 AM
Post by: SRI-Sajuuk on August 03, 2007, 08:15:00 AM
QUOTE(dr3yec @ Aug 3 2007, 10:47 AM)
You know what I love the most. It is ICE raiding for modchips, but what about the illegal aliens in this country. Illegals are bringing serious crimes to this country. I think ICE should worry more about illegal aliens. 20 million illegals stealing jobs, raping, drinking and driving, taking are welfare and I can go on. Let me see modchips is games and more games. Doesnt seem to be as bad to me. ICE and government need to go after a hell alot of worse crime. Like get the illegals! You think ICE? And my tax dollars goes to this shit. Get real.
Illegal aliens are a problem in this country. But are tax Dollars need to go to more than just that. IE Rapiests, Theifs, etc. But, you do have a valid point, so i am not disagreeing with you on that subject
Post by: WetPamper on August 03, 2007, 08:52:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 3 2007, 08:02 AM)
i would just like to say that i have never sold a backup/downloaded game, despite being asked all the time about games. it's easy to pick up that ICE wanted backups, and people using them, but having an undercover agent buy a chipped wii from me, and then raid my house cause i got 12 modchips from Canada is just ridiculous.
i only provided a soldering service, a service for people who didn't have the skill to do it themselves. i just don't understand why they think that bringing me to my knees in public is going to stop piracy.
Focusing this much time, effort, and taxpayer money on something like this, will result in no change in the amount of people downloading games, and the "estimated losses" of the gaming/movie/music industry will continue to rise.
EDIT: lots of people are asking about giving donations. while i don't really feel like i am worthy of such a thing, i am in no position to turn them down, so i added 2 paypal links to my website. feel free to use them if you deem nessecary.
http://www.fallsinc.com
Shame on you, you got grandma's door kicked in over some video games. Not very smart AT ALL!!!
All the macho B.S. aside I got arrested back about 5 years ago for chipping cable boxes. It is probably too late to tell you to stop talking. But if I were you, I would sit my behind down somewhere and forget what a video game is for the next 20 years.
I beat my case because State Police got lucky and found some cable boxes, but they had no search warrant
and my lawyer tore them a new bunghole.
Get a good lawyer, hopefully you can plead it out for probation to keep you from being a felon.
P.S. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Pass it along to the rest of your comrades that fell it necessary to post on the internet there adventures in DMCA violation.
Post by: Arvarden on August 03, 2007, 09:36:00 AM
I hope everything works out for you.
Post by: axess68 on August 03, 2007, 09:53:00 AM
The corporations were going Ape-Sh!t trying to get them banned because they could be used to circumvent copyright protections by recording shows, etc.
So, if they are enforcing this law in that way, then they have to confiscate everyone's: VCR's, DVD Recorders, DVD Burners, Computers, Tape Recorders (if anyone even has one!), and MP3 players.... Because ALL of those things can be used to circumvent copyright protections.
Oh, and while they're at it, they have to confiscate everyone's brains too. Because they can be used to circumvent copyright protections. Also, ban MOUTHS. Because if you sing someone's lyric, you're using it without their permission.
See how ridiculous the DMCA is?
Post by: Nirach on August 03, 2007, 09:59:00 AM
They said you're not allowed to see your girlfriend and child why?
Can you solder with them?
Jesus christ the law is retarded sometimes.
Post by: rony2211 on August 03, 2007, 10:19:00 AM
a kit with a mirror razor and golden straw .We all know thee is no leagle use for this kit yet it is sold every day .How in the hell can they even conceder a flashed 360 illegal does it say in the law that you can not alter a firmware in a piece of hardware that you bought .We ARE NOT ADDING A CHIP TO A 360 .
M-soft just invited a few well knowed hackers down to redmoned to dissclose the exploit in the 360 how the hell did the think that was possible a firmware hack why wernt these guys put in jail on the spot (sorry just ranting they may not even be after flashed 360 good luck falls..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Post by: sith on August 03, 2007, 10:31:00 AM
P.s. please see my other thread in this forum to discuss the united states situation.. this is just a small example of how they have complete control and access to ALL americans.
.sith.
Post by: bigmac_375 on August 03, 2007, 09:59:00 AM
Post by: GamerBR on August 03, 2007, 10:37:00 AM
QUOTE(dr3yec @ Aug 3 2007, 04:47 PM)
You know what I love the most. It is ICE raiding for modchips, but what about the illegal aliens in this country. Illegals are bringing serious crimes to this country. I think ICE should worry more about illegal aliens. 20 million illegals stealing jobs, raping, drinking and driving, taking are welfare and I can go on. Let me see modchips is games and more games. Doesnt seem to be as bad to me. ICE and government need to go after a hell alot of worse crime. Like get the illegals! You think ICE? And my tax dollars goes to this shit. Get real.
It would be nice to see those 20 million people start doing what you said they are already doing.Then you would see how stupid your post were.
Post by: juan_2006 on August 03, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
Its pathetic though...how something could be judged by ONE of its many uses.
Post by: Ursac on August 03, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
With that being said. The origin of this law's modification. Stemmed up from the days in court that poor millionare Lar's ( drummer for Metalica) spent crying. When he seen his new album on the net before it was released and relised he wasnt going to get his new ferrari.
Before that date in the laws the copyright law stated a loophole that if a copyrighted product was changed by 10% then the product made from this was a new product in an of itself. Which back then addint a chip changed how the console worked by 10%. Now days sense the lars act ( just what I am calling it). You change or reproduce any copyrighted material. You can and most often will be sued.
So breaking this down it all stems from some duech who couldnt get his new car. Turned against the fans that made him what he was. And thus the fans turned thier backs on the whole group which hurt him even more then 1 album being on the net.
To sum up M$ Nintendo and Sony not to mention all the manufactures and movie music industrie folks. Will see the fans turn thier backs and will lose more then they ever thought of losing.
Many people purchase consoles after they see it can be modded. Infact some more so then others. Myself I back up what I own due to having 4 boys. They change games constently and are constently getting scratchs on them. If I went an had to buy a new disc everytime a scratch was put on a disc. I couldnt afford to live. lol
So really they need to ask themselves if these consoles are targeted for younger people in every home. Shouldnt they be a little more understanding? Or is it all about money and we know it is. So how much money is enough?
Post by: yourgod78 on August 03, 2007, 11:12:00 AM
This could backfire, but at this point if the conversation remains niche like the industry in question it will be a loser for the community no matter what.
The United States government is not interested in the rights of the people unless enough noise is made. I see little that can be done without a larger voice.
If the patriot act can exist in this country removing rights of modders is a drop in the bucket.
I am considering calling over the weekend, and early next week. Call them all even the conservatives. Guys like O'Reilly talk about being in line with the founders of America. Put him on the spot, and all of them.
Get on the net google private property rights, liberties, etc of the founders, and you will have all the fuel you need.
The founders of this country would have been on the modders side.
I used to hate modders when I first started playing halo 2.......Then I saw xbmc, and all the amazing stuff the creative, intelligent people of the mod community have done.
No government has the right to stomp on such a right. Never give up your freedoms. My thoughts are with all those effected. May you get justice.
Post by: feflicker on August 03, 2007, 11:21:00 AM
@All The Haters, FallsInc never said he wasn't paying taxes! Stop whining about the $20 in taxes you think he is not paying at the end of the year! If you are worried about tax evaders, there are far more lucrative jobs you should be whining about. He said he has a sole proprietorship, has records, and files taxes. SO DROP IT.
Also, stop saying "you knew it was illegal". Most people disagree with that in the first place. Secondly, the DMCA makes EVERYTHING illegal, I'm sure you could make a valid argument that putting a sticker on your Xbox is illegal. There isn't a precedent for a local area installer being convicted for soldering modchips into game systems (everyone in the past has been charged with selling or possessing copied games, not for installing chips or even having hacked bios files). At this point, this guy hasn't even been CHARGED. Why? They are trying to figure out what they can charge him with. LAME.
Finally, FallsInc was simply having his orders sent to his Grandmas. Why? He already told you. Someone was there all day to sign for packages. Would anyone have thought twice about ordering a modchip and having it sent to your Mom's house before this happened? NO. Get off his case about it, I'm sure in hindsight he would have done things differently. No one could have expected their Grandma's house to get raided because a few wii chips are sent to that address...
--------------------------------------------------------
My take on this: Wouldn't a simple Cease & Desist letter have been sufficient? How about giving the little guy a chance? Something like this, as gray as it is, a C&D would have been the way to go IMO.
Post by: mp5user on August 03, 2007, 11:36:00 AM
Post by: Hack_Bird on August 03, 2007, 11:23:00 AM
Respect , I hope you find a good laywer.and you can see your Girlfriend and baby very soon again.
I mean, first see them back, for support. then find a good laywer
@ everyone
Keep on modding
keep Linux running on your Xbox !!!
Dont let the dmca or anyone else scare you.
<keep respecting the law, >
LaterzPost by: LiLJiMMy on August 03, 2007, 12:03:00 PM
Who would want to pirate Xbox games now when there all declining in price under $30 ?
Post by: XDelusion on August 03, 2007, 12:09:00 PM
This is B.S. in FULL effect!
If it was me in his shoes, I'm sure I would have gotten violent.
Post by: Awes0me Dude on August 03, 2007, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: leesiulung on August 03, 2007, 12:12:00 PM
QUOTE(dr3yec @ Aug 3 2007, 03:47 PM)
You know what I love the most. It is ICE raiding for modchips, but what about the illegal aliens in this country. Illegals are bringing serious crimes to this country. I think ICE should worry more about illegal aliens. 20 million illegals stealing jobs, raping, drinking and driving, taking are welfare and I can go on. Let me see modchips is games and more games. Doesnt seem to be as bad to me. ICE and government need to go after a hell alot of worse crime. Like get the illegals! You think ICE? And my tax dollars goes to this shit. Get real.
I take offense to your comment about illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are here because we (as in the goverment) allow it. Raping and drunk driving happens in society regardless of illegal aliens. They MAY take jobs from Americans, but most of the jobs they performed are unwanted or underpaid so you can have a cheaper product or service. I'm not saying cheaper is justified, but namely saying that is what happens with competition because consumers always want a cheaper product.
To sum it up, we are all at fault for this. We do not voice our opinion loud enough and not enough is being done by the regular US citizen to oppose these laws. I say it is not the illegal aliens fault, but rather the law that allows this or not being upheld!
Illegal aliens are just making a living. I would probably do the same if I was piss poor trying to make ends meet. I wish all these people complaining about illegal aliens would live in their shoe for a month in their country, then come talk to me...
To put in perspective, fallsinc did something potentially illegal and he knew it. He has plenty of opportunity to do other things such as getting a better education, getting trained in a skill or just do a regular job like many other Americans. America offers many opportunities and has many of the best Universities in the world compared to poor countries like Mexico. I say he has plenty of opportunity to do something else than doing something in the legal gray zone.
He now has to suffer the consequences for this and the excuse that he has to feed himself does not hold. He is free to get a legal job or get better educated. Illegal aliens did not have the same opportunity in their country.
However, I do think that modchips should be legal in the US!
Post by: kopking on August 03, 2007, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: TeamDevil on August 03, 2007, 12:29:00 PM
Obama for president!
Post by: mukmaster on August 03, 2007, 12:37:00 PM
I also read a book (hacking the Xbox by , Andrew (bunnie) Haung) It talks about allot of the legal aspects to hacking and reverse engineering. He pointed out because of intellectual property law it's techinacly illeagle to open and xbox,ps2,..ect. even know you payed your hard earned money for it.
I am really sorry that all of this is happening and I will hope the best that you can get your girl friend back. I hope you get your stuff back.
BEST OF LUCK
Post by: skinlayers on August 03, 2007, 12:05:00 PM
These people (like the FBI and CIA) let their reputations do most of the work for them.
FallsInc should have refused to talk to them until a he had a lawyer present. Even though he was not arrested his still has the legal right to have an attorney present while he was being questioned. They love it when people panic and just tell them or give them everything they want. By co-operating he may have hurt himself and made their case against him a lot easier. The ones that visited him at his girlfriend's place were nice because they were manipulating him to let him guard down.
Knowing your local laws is good. Having a legal expert is even better.
Don't make the same mistake. If you are being questioned demand to have a lawyer present!!!!!
skinlayers
Post by: Nemo[ on August 03, 2007, 12:48:00 PM
Does that change the fact that he's making money from something that's illegal (in said country) ? No!
Why should we feel sorry for him getting caught? How is it any different from the next guy selling bootlegs or drugs? It's not like they don't have families or it's personal use.
Post by: jimbobjim on August 03, 2007, 12:20:00 PM
QUOTE(blaize @ Aug 3 2007, 12:41 PM)
But come on people, for everyone who ever modded an xbox.. we knew that it was illigal
It's like.. if a person killed 10 people, and the police arrests someone elsewho killed 1 person, what should he say? "why go after the little guys ?!".
I feel bad for you getting into trouble, but hey. you knew it could happen someday.
I vote this the stupidest comment in this thread. Who's with me?
Post by: Nemo[ on August 03, 2007, 12:59:00 PM
QUOTE(jimbobjim @ Aug 3 2007, 08:56 PM)
I vote this the stupidest comment in this thread. Who's with me?
Irony?
Post by: skinlayers on August 03, 2007, 12:29:00 PM
QUOTE(mukmaster @ Aug 3 2007, 11:37 AM)
as if microsoft's pockets aren't deep enough the actually do lose about 35-40 bucks on every original xbox sold. This is why they dont like the chipperz ; because they cost microsoft dollars.
I also read a book (hacking the Xbox by , Andrew (bunnie) Haung) It talks about allot of the legal aspects to hacking and reverse engineering. He pointed out because of intellectual property law it's techinacly illeagle to open and xbox,ps2,..ect. even know you payed your hard earned money for it.
Yeah, and when you 'buy' a DVD, you aren't 'buying' a DVD. You are buying a license to play that DVD on a licensed DVD player. So playing a DVD that you bought under linux (which doesn't have any license players) is illegal. F**k that! What ever happened to fair use?
This exactly why I softmod Xboxes (an DVD players in general) for free. The way I see it, M$ owes me. As an IT professional I have lost countless hours 'fixing' their shitty software. And my time is worth money. As I spend night after night gathering drivers for sysprep, and I glance enviously at my Mac coworkers who are able to just create an image on Mac without a fraction of the headache. And now we have Vista pushed down are throats? No thank you. I'm not going to sit here and promote piracy (mostly because I love my XS account
), but I do love the thought of a modded Xbox that is used for legal purposes (like XBMC), that never has a single game purchased for it, thus causing M$ to lose a few bucks... it just warms the cockles of my heart.My roommate gets back at them by posting singles ads aimed at bored wifes of M$ employees
. This is my way. skinlayers
Post by: Havok on August 03, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
QUOTE(skinlayers @ Aug 3 2007, 03:05 PM)
This exactly why I softmod Xboxes (an DVD players in general) for free. The way I see it, M$ owes me. As an IT professional I have lost countless hours 'fixing' their shitty software. And my time is worth money. As I spend night after night gathering drivers for sysprep, and I glance enviously at my Mac coworkers who are able to just create an image on Mac without a fraction of the headache. And now we have Vista pushed down are throats? No thank you. I'm not going to sit here and promote piracy (mostly because I love my XS account
), but I do love the thought of a modded Xbox that is used for legal purposes (like XBMC), that never has a single game purchased for it, thus causing M$ to lose a few bucks... it just warms the cockles of my heart.. skinlayers
You don't like the MS products... don't use them.
Post by: DuBob4432 on August 03, 2007, 01:27:00 PM
i have been on the wrong end of a raid in the past (not for this type of thing but for "supposed harassment by using a computer" and i had 2 police depts in a small 1000sq ft apartment - first half dozen were in full gear - not swat but had the full body armor w/ mp5s and m4s, possibly a couple steyrs too. had a total of ~15 w/ all the detectives and such. i have been around guns my whole life so wasn't too impressed or intimidated when they came through the door after i let them - knock warrant (now when i was confronted by a crackhead w/ a gun who got the draw on me, that was a bit of fear, but i knew the cops weren't going to shoot me but the crackhead would have, haha)
anyway, within a few minutes the cops realized the accusers (family) were full of shit but they still had to take the "evidence" which was every computer in our apt at the time - mine, my wife's and a few friends that i was working on - nothing illegal, and it took about 10mos to get them back w/ the help of a aclu attorney after they had gone through the police's forensic lab and found not to have anything on them.
during the "raid" they questioned me but the detective was green and i was able to easily to control the "questioning" as we did have a bit of lead time on this and had already seen an attorney, plus i think the detective felt like an ass anyway after he heard "the other side". we would talk about meaningless shit and then he would try his "tactics" on me at which point i just said he would need to talk to my attorney and they didn't pressure on. also, they had come to the apt a few days earlier and asked if they could look around, i said do yo have a warrant and they replied no, so i said you have no right, get a warrant if you really feel it necessary (guess they did, haha).
so back to what i was saying - op - good luck in gettng your stuff back but don't wait as it will be a long time. the stuff against me was all bullshit and they still had my computers for 10mos.
when facing the judge AFTER YOU GET AN ATTORNEY definitely bring up ms using xbmc or whatever it is called at E3 - maybe ms will be raided too, haha.
good luck
Post by: Chancer on August 03, 2007, 01:04:00 PM
QUOTE(XDelusion @ Aug 3 2007, 07:09 PM)
If it was me in his shoes, I'm sure I would have gotten violent.
Yes that would really have solved it all.
You would have taken a beating and ended up inside, taking your turn in the barrel.
Post by: yourgod78 on August 03, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
QUOTE(skinlayers @ Aug 3 2007, 01:41 PM)
A piece of advice from someone who has dealt with Federal law enforcement before.
These people (like the FBI and CIA) let their reputations do most of the work for them.
FallsInc should have refused to talk to them until a he had a lawyer present. Even though he was not arrested his still has the legal right to have an attorney present while he was being questioned. They love it when people panic and just tell them or give them everything they want. By co-operating he may have hurt himself and made their case against him a lot easier. The ones that visited him at his girlfriend's place were nice because they were manipulating him to let him guard down.
Knowing your local laws is good. Having a legal expert is even better.
Don't make the same mistake. If you are being questioned demand to have a lawyer present!!!!!
skinlayers
I completely agree. That said I do understand. This is a regular guy trying to make an honest living, and I would tend to bet this man has never had any other reason in his life to feel like a criminal (I don't know that, but given the language I would bet). These guys buddy hustled him.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."-George Washington, founding father, and 1st president.
Post by: Hopeful on August 03, 2007, 01:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Nemo[ @ Aug 3 2007, 07:59 PM)
Irony?
Uh, where?
I'd have to agree with what he's saying. That is the most retarded and fundamentally wrong idea I've seen in a long time.
Anyway if you consider mod chips justifiably illegal, find a different forum.
And the shit about being sold a "license to use" but not the actual hardware is bullshit. You can't rightfully sell someone a console without the actual equipment becoming their property. I don't care if the law "says otherwise" because that's communist law and it can't be respected living among the rest.
If people thought they weren't being SOLD consoles but merely USAGE of "corporation owned units" much of the interest wouldn't even be there. "MY video game system" and ownership of it is the paramount appeal to a lot of gamers. Anyway if they're only selling "the permanent service of" a "unit belonging to the corporation", wouldn't that obligate them to eternally keep it running at their own expense? Wouldn't it also make "selling" 2nd hand consoles illegal?
Something here is not stacking up and we're getting shafted. If you're sold something that only exists on its hardware, you're sold the hardware too. No person or law can say otherwise bullshit free.
Post by: Sinner666 on August 03, 2007, 01:46:00 PM
QUOTE(yourgod78 @ Aug 3 2007, 02:43 PM)
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."-George Washington, founding father, and 1st president.
I am always shocked by how many people think goverment is a "social contract" or a "aggreed upon community standards"
When in a debate over if something should be done by government, I always ask "Why is this so important that VIOLENT FORCE is acceptable?"
So painfully many people don't/will ever understand that goverment is now and will forever be a form of violence. I point out the IRS doesn't ask it tells, and they still don't get it.
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 02:23:00 PM
Post by: budweisr33 on August 03, 2007, 02:38:00 PM
When is big brother gonna grow up and get some common sense and logical thinking?
I bet some of these government goons have kids who own pirated consoles,mp3's,dvd's,or use filesharing of some sort or know friends who do. I cant believe this country and the shit we put up with.Everyone said i could do or be anything i wanted but all i want is truth justice and the UNamerican way.
Post by: snart on August 03, 2007, 02:44:00 PM
Everyone here is trying to argue around the DMCA. That doesn't work. That's the law, you broke it. End of discussion. Trying to say, "well..the DMCA is whack" is not going to get you far in the courts, who could care less how you interpret the law (that's what the judges do).
Post by: __someone__ on August 03, 2007, 02:29:00 PM
QUOTE(snart @ Aug 3 2007, 03:44 PM)
I don't want to go into detail about what happened to me a few years back, but let's just say you don't have a chance in hell if you choose to fight.
Everyone here is trying to argue around the DMCA. That doesn't work. That's the law, you broke it. End of discussion. Trying to say, "well..the DMCA is whack" is not going to get you far in the courts, who could care less how you interpret the law (that's what the judges do).
The amount of people saying what this guy above me said is getting ridiculous. I haven't read anything (in fact quite the contrary) that says owning a modchip with the cromwell bios is illegal...hence the fact that you can LEGALLY buy one. I haven't seen anywhere where it says this guy put an illegal bios on those chips he installed.
IN OTHER words, if the act of owning a modchip is illegal then we are all illegal here. But I am sick and tired of 'you shouldn't have broken the law' posts. They are ignorant and hypocritical.
Post by: jeff10 on August 03, 2007, 03:06:00 PM
I remember watching movies or playing old games that says its illegal to copy, rent, etc etc..
Why are the movie rental companies allowed to exist then, I am sure if the fine print is read this is not lega either?
just wondered if anyone had an answer for that?
Post by: rp71284 on August 03, 2007, 03:16:00 PM
But if the gov't wants to cut down on piracy, go after the release groups that put games online so they can be downloaded. Go after the leaks in the gaming industry that let the games get out early. Go after those people because without them, modchips would not be looked at so negatively.
I guarantee the majority of backups made by people are from games that are downloaded.
Post by: TheLegace on August 03, 2007, 03:32:00 PM
Maybe 100,000 are really active.
Call who represents you, whether your in Europe or United States.
I live in Canada, and I might make a call, if anything serious happens.
Please Send emails, create petitions, call people.
Let's try to take back freedom, I only pray this will make people open their eyes. This government has really gone just way to far.
Oh also, send emails to microsoft/nintendo/sony(like sony will give a shit).
Maybe Government officials may not fix anything, but it should make you feel good, that you bitched at something.
Post by: jimbobjim on August 03, 2007, 03:05:00 PM
QUOTE(jeff10 @ Aug 3 2007, 10:06 PM)
I kow it is illiegal, to mod copy burn games etc. But i have always wondered how is it lega for a rental company blockbuster, gamefly, net flix. whoever to actually rent a movie or a game...
I remember watching movies or playing old games that says its illegal to copy, rent, etc etc..
Why are the movie rental companies allowed to exist then, I am sure if the fine print is read this is not lega either?
just wondered if anyone had an answer for that?
You aren't allowed to rent without permission. Blockbuster have permission.
Post by: Eksyte on August 03, 2007, 03:51:00 PM
Just a guess, but the movie and game rental companies probably have contracts with the game and movie companies that allow them to rent them. They probably pay more for each movie, but for every $150 (or whatever) they pay for a movie, they probably rent it out for $1,000 or more. When they have 30 copies of a movie to rent, that's a lot of revenue.
rp71284:
Torrent sites are used as loopholes in the downloaded media problem. The sites themselves aren't doing anything illegal because they're merely giving the uploaders and downloaders a way to find each other. This is not illegal.
In order to prosecute anyone with these sites in place would be to gather IPs and other info on the individual users. There hundreds of torrent sites with thousands of members, so to prosecute that many people would be an extremely daunting (if not impossible) task.
Post by: chorizo1 on August 03, 2007, 03:28:00 PM
QUOTE(TheLegace @ Aug 3 2007, 04:32 PM)
Oh also, send emails to microsoft/nintendo/sony(like sony will give a shit).
What makes you think M$ or Nintendo will.
Wow, you always got the same group of people in these forums (political news etc.) arguing about politics and govt. laws etc. that mattered in the past, and no one gave a shit.
Have a few modchip stores closed, and everyone is ready to burn down the Whitehouse, LOL.
Post by: skinlayers on August 03, 2007, 03:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Havok @ Aug 3 2007, 12:15 PM)
You don't like the MS products... don't use them.
And which is why when I'm at home I use Macs for audio production and keep my PC for gaming
But trying to work in IT and avoiding Windows altogether is not realistic for most people.
Post by: Hopeful on August 03, 2007, 04:12:00 PM
QUOTE(snart @ Aug 3 2007, 09:44 PM)
I don't want to go into detail about what happened to me a few years back, but let's just say you don't have a chance in hell if you choose to fight.
Everyone here is trying to argue around the DMCA. That doesn't work. That's the law, you broke it. End of discussion. Trying to say, "well..the DMCA is whack" is not going to get you far in the courts, who could care less how you interpret the law (that's what the judges do).
I don't think it's about how we 'interpret' this 'rule', so much as feeling violated that this kind of invasive 'rule' even exists. It clearly has no right to, but does anyway, for the sake of profit or whatever. Things in our private lives like what possessions we build, copy or modify really have no inherent right to be monitored/dictated. (And intellectual "property" is complete bullshit. Don't even get me started on that.)
I think people are pissed at the very existance of this "rule" that's an intrusion into a private part of our lives and has no right to even exist. Although violatingly, it does exist and is enforced, I think many people have the desire to violently fight such 'rules' until said rules die a horrible death. If you march into someone's house and tell them they don't actually own their console, you're liable to get hit in the face and kicked out of their house. The law has no more right than anyone else to do the same. That's basically what the gov't is doing and people are understandably pissed. (And understandably scared to do anything about it too.) We shouldn't have laws like this that only exist because people are scared to do anything about them.
I think THAT's the issue. I don't think they want to argue AROUND the DMCA. I think they want to KILL it. I have to agree with them. It does deserve to die. And moreover, people attempting to create/impose such invasive rules are the only ones who deserve to be severely punished.
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 03:52:00 PM
QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Aug 4 2007, 12:04 AM)
What makes you think M$ or Nintendo will.
Wow, you always got the same group of people in these forums (political news etc.) arguing about politics and govt. laws etc. that mattered in the past, and no one gave a shit.
Have a few modchip stores closed, and everyone is ready to burn down the Whitehouse, LOL.
with all due respect its not a matter of a "few modchip stores being closed" "LOL" its a matter that this countries laws are getting ridicoulous. read twisted symphonie's article is a great of proving how this action taken is a set back in technological advancements(yes i think running damn linux on a console is a great learning tool for hobbyists and amateur programers and college students as well
and i dont really care if no one else cares about my opinion. I think its my right(as a human being at least) to sound like a crazy madman ranting if no one cares
Post by: chorizo1 on August 03, 2007, 03:57:00 PM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 3 2007, 05:28 PM)
its a matter that this countries laws are getting ridicoulous.
yes they are, but there are worst laws and crimes being committed against the citizens of this country than not being able to sell modchips is all i was saying....
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Aug 4 2007, 12:33 AM)
yes they are, but there are worst laws and crimes being committed against the citizens of this country than not being able to sell modchips is all i was saying....
i agree with you a 100%, but remember this is xbox-scene and ppl dont like being told what not to do with their consoles
Post by: gumburcules on August 03, 2007, 04:52:00 PM
Post by: TheLegace on August 03, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Aug 3 2007, 11:04 PM)
What makes you think M$ or Nintendo will.
Wow, you always got the same group of people in these forums (political news etc.) arguing about politics and govt. laws etc. that mattered in the past, and no one gave a shit.
Have a few modchip stores closed, and everyone is ready to burn down the Whitehouse, LOL.
I guess the corporations wouldn't give a shit.
And maybe I just got emotional after reading the article.
But the fact is that the fact that you keep saying no one will give a shit will not change anything.
I am sick of waiting around for things to happen, so I will do whatever is in my power, if you don't want to do anything, thats fine, I guess, but people need to wake up. Why is it so wrong to say that. I am not trying to push a political agenda, but someones life was ruined, and many more are likely. How do you think the victim feels? Helpless, isolated, why is that.....because no one gives a shit..... I don't think so. I just think it is because no one knows what to do, no one maybe has time. But if a couple thousand people called their representative, and encouraged more people to do so, wouldn't that do something? Call or not call, but you haev to understand that maybe couple minutes you have to spend expressing your 1st Amendment right, could change the world. Where does it end? Next anyone with a modchip in their Xbox will be arrested.... Is that good? Most people understand this is meaningless.....most people disagree with this. But you have to understand if nothing is done, if people feel the way you do, will anything get done. Maybe this is the wrong place. What would you suggest we do, it is not just abuot modchip stores. It is about RIAA, MPAA, it is about corporations taking your freedoms, your rights and all of your money, and maybe worse of all your dignity.
Maybe I am niave, maybe I am stupid, but I feel I support my views till I die. Because maybe someone like me might win the lottery, someone like me might become extremely rich, and being passionate about changing the world, have money means having power. So who knows. Maybe someone like me might run for politics, maybe more and more people might wake up.
Meeh, I am not listening to people like you anymore, I have been far too scrutinzied and patronized for it.
Post by: HI-Saturn on August 03, 2007, 05:27:00 PM
Think About IT!
Post by: Nemo[ on August 03, 2007, 05:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Hopeful @ Aug 3 2007, 10:15 PM)
Uh, where?
My bad, I didn't actually think the guy was serious comparing mass murder.
QUOTE(Hopeful @ Aug 3 2007, 10:15 PM)
Anyway if you consider mod chips justifiably illegal, find a different forum.
I have no problem with mod chips, they're perfectly legal where I live. My problem is everyone defending a guy who made money from doing something that was illegal where he lives.
That being said, a raid sounds waaay out of proportion, should have been handled like speeding or similar minor offense.
Post by: NOMERCYX on August 03, 2007, 05:10:00 PM
QUOTE(skinlayers @ Aug 3 2007, 07:41 PM)
A piece of advice from someone who has dealt with Federal law enforcement before.
These people (like the FBI and CIA) let their reputations do most of the work for them.
FallsInc should have refused to talk to them until a he had a lawyer present. Even though he was not arrested his still has the legal right to have an attorney present while he was being questioned. They love it when people panic and just tell them or give them everything they want. By co-operating he may have hurt himself and made their case against him a lot easier. The ones that visited him at his girlfriend's place were nice because they were manipulating him to let him guard down.
Knowing your local laws is good. Having a legal expert is even better.
Don't make the same mistake. If you are being questioned demand to have a lawyer present!!!!!
skinlayers
X1000
FallsInc my sympathies are with you. For all other modders out there who may face this issue, here is a video that can show you what to do in this situation.
HERE
Remember to FLEX your rights!
Post by: Math1 on August 03, 2007, 05:51:00 PM
And a suggestion to fallsinc -- never ever talk to the law without a lawyer present. And you never ever give them anything without a warrant allowing its seizure. Period. That isn't being uncooperative, it is exercising your rights.
Post by: stopit33 on August 03, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: flashfreak on August 03, 2007, 06:15:00 PM
I feel really sad for you right now. It just sucks how they've picked on you when im sure you didnt do anything wrong.
As people have said, get a lawyer. Its very important you have someone you can trust with the nitty gritty about it all who knows a bit more about whats going on.
I hope everything gets back on track for you soon my friend
Post by: iceflow420 on August 03, 2007, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: pirichios on August 03, 2007, 07:25:00 PM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 02:20 AM)
I look at it like this, the hackers are to blame for everything if they didn't illegally hack a system there wouldn't be a mod chip or a nodded firmware hackers ruin peoples lives and cost all of us legal console owners money in the end you wont like what I have posted but its true
thats not true if it wasnt for hackers there would never be linux on the xbox which im still pretty sure is a 100% legal.If it wasnt for hackers there would be no xbmc they certainly havent ruined my life. there is a huge difference between hackers and crackers google the meanings and you will understand what im trying to say
Post by: ekruob on August 03, 2007, 07:28:00 PM
QUOTE(flashfreak @ Aug 4 2007, 10:51 AM)
From a few stories i've read, it seems its nintendo pushing the DCMA i think, because i've heard its the wii modchips ppl are after, and after all, from what i know, the wii chips offer piracy and only that.
Wii chips can play GameCube software which includes emulators, Linux, media centers and many other homebrew applications - so they are just as legitimate as chips for the Xbox 1, and more legitimate than chips for the PS2.
Also can anyone provide evidence that Nintendo, and not Sony, is behind these raids?!
Post by: BoberFett on August 03, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
QUOTE
I did the only thing I felt I could do, I let them take what they wanted.
Never, never, never trust cops. They are not your friends. They will do and say anything to get you to incriminate yourself. Get a good lawyer and don't say anything to the pigs.
Post by: little miss modder on August 03, 2007, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: BillMan on August 03, 2007, 10:53:00 PM
One where you can develop for and download the games, but also be sold in stores.
One where you cana run XBMC on, and all your other homebrew dreams.
Just an idea, someone should really consider doing this. Cuz I for one would pay lthe price for $499 (which the PS3 is now) for a machine that is all open source, to the hardware and everything
Also, your probably going to get a defered sentence with 2-5 years of probation.
So just take the plea bargin, but this is iffy so if you didn't brak the law, and feel you didn't fight back, but if yuo had even one copied game, and they know about it, accept the plea bargin.
Also, do not! I repeat! Do not wave your preliminary hearing! half the time cases get dismissed this way.
What are your court dates?
thanks later.
Also, I would give them some pitty storey saying that yo ufelt threatned fro them nto even nocking and just breaking into your house, for your familys life and your life so that is why you handed all the materials to the cops. And your lawyer can get all that thrown out of court, and they wont have a case. I mean after all, you had no idea if they were really cops, cuz to me, a cop would of nocked before tearing down your door waiting for someone to answer first. Right? Just an idea.... some pitty storey like that to get all the evidence you handed over to them thrown out.
Just a little hing
Post by: Corvillus on August 03, 2007, 11:31:00 PM
QUOTE(iceflow420 @ Aug 3 2007, 09:45 PM)
Hey, not to go a bit off topic, but i find it funny that they are going after chips when they haven't taken action against sites with softmods
I don't think I have seen too many U.S. based sites that actually have softmods hosted on them. A lot of sites will give the procedure for doing a softmod, and in some cases even point you in the direction of where to obtain the relevant exploits and homebrew software to get the job done...but none of them will actually host it, because you can bet that if they did, they would be shut down eventually under the DMCA. Also, for the purposes of these raids, I'm pretty sure that for people who modify consoles ,the U.S. government could care less about whether or not they were using hardware or software exploits to circumvent the access controls, only that access control circumventions took place, which are exactly what the DMCA prohibits.
That said, the DMCA (and any similar law) is a completely unjust law which only serves to take control away from the consumer while providing no benefit in return, and I'm glad I live in a country which does not (yet) have such a law.
Post by: ekruob on August 04, 2007, 01:20:00 AM
In Australia, despite the laws always permitting most mod chips, there have been instances of certain publications (e.g. local papers) that refuse to allow mod-related advertisements (obviously at the behest of Sony).
At one stage one well-known paper had a list of 'banned words and phrases' (e.g. mod, mod chip, chip, modding, modded, chipped, and even 'upgrades' LOL).
It turned out that there are other words you can use when advertising your services that in no way detract from their effectiveness ;-)
E.g. headlines such as 'Multi-Zoning' (my idea, and personal favorite) and 'Multi-Regioning' coupled with the all-encompassing 'Repair Services' may help you avoid closer scrutiny and even the 4am raids by those pesky feds!
Cheers,
Rich
Post by: Roy2001 on August 04, 2007, 01:56:00 AM
Just curious, did you install Evox/Executer BIOS and EvolutionX dashboard?
Post by: feflicker on August 04, 2007, 01:45:00 AM
I got news for you guys, even if he was doing this for free he prob would have still been raided... Don't act like he's a bad guy because he made a few bucks helping people out with this stuff. Everyones time is valuable, and worth something, no matter if it takes 5 minutes or 5 hours.
Geez, the guy wasn't making modding his career. He was in a lull and he modded a little extra for a few months to make ends meet. People are acting like this guy setup his own shop at the mall, or was selling bootleg games out the back of his car. Installing a few WiiKey's hardly qualifies him as being some enemy of the state.
=====================================================
Moving on to another issue....
Local installers were a HUGE part of this scene. Much more than people may realize. Now, local installers are being marginalized because of this B.S. What's next, back alley mods? Do I have to drive to Tennessee, pay $30 to some guy name Larry, then get taken into a back room where they frisk me, check me for bugs, and then some electrician comes out the back with my newly modded console, and tells me never to speak of this place?
I must admit, I'm a little sad because this was the final straw for me in terms of installing. I have installed mods for a LOT of people. Trust me, it wasn't lucrative financially, but it was lucrative in terms of the friends I made while doing it. I genuinely loved helping people, and when they were interested, I even taught people how to do the mods themselves, let them witness the surgery! I won't forget all the satisfied people that came through me, and I'm a little bummed it's over, but all things must come to an end... I suppose to some people I'm a criminal now, huh, because I f'ing installed some X2 chips for some grateful fellow X-S'ers? Meanwhile these hypocrites own consoles are sitting their chipped, flashed, softmodded, etc. WHATEVER.
The ONLY positive I see coming from this: Maybe more people will study up on soldering, learn to read tutorials, and actuall try alot of this stuff on their own instead of getting installers involved. It's way funner to do it yourself anyway! For those of you who are interested, I recommend practicing soldering using and old PCI card, a dead mobo, etc. Just get some 30 gauge wire and practice soldering to the various points, get a feel for it. After you are comfortable, and have a handle on it, THEN try to mod your console
And never EVER try to mod a PS2 unless you are really good at soldering lol 
Post by: cory1492 on August 04, 2007, 04:22:00 AM
FallsInc: sorry to hear you are an example of their posterboy for their "war on consumers with brains."
QUOTE(SupaDawg @ Aug 3 2007, 05:37 AM)
This is indeed the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. I, like you falls, have done solder work for people in the past. I live in Canada of course so i'm safe, but the fact of the matter is that a simple law changes and this could have been any one of us here.
If I don't miss my guess they are, recently, trying to paint Canada as the bad guy as being a "major" source of export of illegal pirated goods to further try and foist the broken DMCA into our legislation. Gathering proof of such from people like FallsInc is a step towards getting their agents into Canada without dealing with extradition.
Post by: DWells55 on August 04, 2007, 04:31:00 AM
Cracking down on the illegal sale and redistribuition of pirated games is 100% fine by me. But cracking down on mod chips themselves is something I disapprove of. I've been considering modding my Wii and 360 for the sake of legitimate backups of my own games. Why? I have a younger brother in my house I share my consoles with. However, he absolutely can't be trusted to handle a game properly. As it stands right now, every time he wants to play a game, I have to be the one to remove the current game from the console and replace it with a new one so nothing gets damaged.
Consumers deserve the right to have backups of their property, especially when that property is data on a reasonably fragile medium. Unless manufacturers want to allow us to run backups, it shouldn't be illegal for me to modify hardware I purchased with a chip I purchased to play copies of games I purchased burned onto blanks discs I purchased with a burner that I purchased. This is my hardware - let me do with it what I will whether that be homebrew or backups.
Post by: Maseo on August 04, 2007, 05:41:00 AM
The best thing to do right now, is to get things straight.
If you want to fight it, prepare, and prepare allot.
In the meanwhile look for a job, not everything is dishwashing and cleaning, but you have to start somewhere.
And i know we all can relate to his problem, we like modding, that's why we gather here on these forums, and we to would be shattered if it would happen to us.
Though there are a couple of things that aren't just right...
First of, he didn't have a job but did do modding to get his money out of it.
I know it's easy working, but you won't have jack if you lose one (in this case, his "repair-shop").
Im 18 now, and i work 32hours the week but still do modding.
I think the best this is to see it as "an extra" then your main way of income.
Second of, preselling modded consoles is always a bad thing (depending on your jurisdiction).
I never have, and never will, sell a pre-modded console.
Same thing goes for pirated games. I don't sell them, and never will.
Third, it seemed you could make enough money out of it to keep your head "above the water" afford a car and keep you live easy with the "luxery" of pure "repair works". I don't know how long you were busy with "repairing" consoles, but it seems long enough to keep going. You even kept records of how many money you made with the work that you did.
You got lucky that they didn't find/confiscate that because that only is proof that you used it to generate income and even to administrate it.
Fourth, which is repeated here allot, figure out what the jurisdiction in your area is.
to second this, best way to keep it safe is to NOT put it online, NOT to put it in the papers. But instead use mouth-to-mouth "promotion".
Those are (except for the last one) trackable, and can be read by anyone inc. ICE.
In my country it's legal to mod anything you want.
As soon as you purchased any goods (be it electric, non electric, toys etc, your car(as long as it stays safe and within the limits ofcourse
)) it's your to do with it whatever you like to. This country doesn't care about any agreements in manuals of anything else of that matter UNTIL you know it, SIGNED it, and THEN bought it.
As it is with the xbox(360) manual it states you arent allowed to change anything on the console, because it's property of MS. Which you wouldn't have known before buying it, because you read it after the purchase of you product.
I love to visit america some day, seeing that i find it a nice country. But all these things make me ponder on going seeing that i am used to allot more in my country (Netherlands) that what is allowed in the States.
Freedom of Speech for an example, which could hurt me the most.
I wish FallsInc better days to come, that he even gets his stuff back and can get back to his GF and doughter, but he surely needs to think twice in the future
Post by: Blackbolt on August 04, 2007, 05:07:00 AM
They should be going after the people profiting from selling copied disks, I hate these people with a passion and although I have the ability to copy games for friends and family, I refuse to do it as I love my gear too much and its totally not worth it.
I modded my Xbox within 2 weeks of owning it when I found out about Xbox Media Center. I cannot believe modding my xbox to play media is an illegal activity. When you compare what all of us are doing to actual crimes like assault and robbery, its doesn't reflect as a crime.
The gaming industry has benefited from the modding of consoles, more people own consoles, more people play games, yes there's piracy, but are the games companies so narrowminded to think that these kids or poorer people who copy games for themselves because they can't afford a retail pack would actually buy their game in the first place, there is a reason they playing copies, they can't afford to buy it at retail prices. Thank fully I'm blessed and able to afford games, but would the government really go after kids and poor people? Probably.
Post by: stopit33 on August 04, 2007, 05:56:00 AM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 03:01 AM)
thats not true if it wasnt for hackers there would never be linux on the xbox which im still pretty sure is a 100% legal.If it wasnt for hackers there would be no xbmc they certainly havent ruined my life. there is a huge difference between hackers and crackers google the meanings and you will understand what im trying to say
Why would you want to run linux on your xbox? dont tell me just because you can, if you realy want to run linux put it on your pc. I was thinking more about the 360 and the wii and the ps3, the 360 hack/crack whatever makes you happier ONLY is used for playing pirate games I think this go's for the wii too do you think this is ok?
Post by: MourningWood on August 04, 2007, 06:43:00 AM
What can you do though, the honor system only holds true with so many people. It is a lot easier to track the installers and the web shops than it is the guy making the copying. Even the guy that sells copied games is usually smart enough not to go advertising everywhere (I have seen some exceptions to intelligence).
I hope that the Scene stays here and true to its values. It is a great fun hobby to get into and throughout the years, despite my degree I have learned more about electronics than I thought I would have and hopefully I will keep learning for many more. Which brings me to the next part.
I've been installing for a few years now and have modded a variety of consoles in a variety of ways. It was nice to have a hobby where you can get paid enough to support it (most hobbies are quite expensive). I met quite a few people, most good and some bad. I especially loved the challenge customer that wanted a crazy case mod or had a broken console that wasn't like anything I've read about. Despite all the good stuff it doesn't out weight the bad stuff.
I'm a married man with three kids and just about to graduate with a bachelors in computer science. Even though I've seen the law randomly do stuff like this and sit quiet again it's not worth the risk for me anymore. I have never sold a backup game and wouldn't even give support to people that called or emailed needing help with copying a game they didn't own. I also made it a point not to buy or sell mod chips, it was always the customers responsibility. Its time for me to lay down the soldering iron for a while and get my career started.
To all who got raided (actually I've been out of town for the last week, for all I know when I get home my door could be kicked in) hold strong and band together like many people have suggested. Court is never a fun or cheap thing to go through.
For all who are still going... Stick to it, come up with some new bad ass shit and learn from past mistakes.
Post by: JBmtk on August 04, 2007, 07:13:00 AM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 05:56 AM)
Why would you want to run linux on your xbox? dont tell me just because you can, if you realy want to run linux put it on your pc. I was thinking more about the 360 and the wii and the ps3, the 360 hack/crack whatever makes you happier ONLY is used for playing pirate games I think this go's for the wii too do you think this is ok?
obviously u never ran linux or go as far as to read about it. Point is, people can do OTHER things such as running linux (xdsl/gentoox), XBMC, linksboks, and playing old games (ROMs), NOT piracy. And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games. So no, your pathetic interpretation is not ok, ok?
Post by: ekruob on August 04, 2007, 07:43:00 AM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:56 PM)
Why would you want to run linux on your xbox? dont tell me just because you can, if you realy want to run linux put it on your pc.
Have you ever researched this? GentooX Linux has a media centre edition. So you are denying everyone's right to a perfectly legitimate media centre?!
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:56 PM)
I was thinking more about the 360 and the wii and the ps3, the 360 hack/crack whatever makes you happier ONLY is used for playing pirate games I think this go's for the wii too do you think this is ok?
Obviously you are unaware that the Wii can run Linux, emulators, and much much more in the way of homebrew?! The Wii has 1.5x the power of the Xbox 1, so that makes for a very small and good piece of media centre hardware :-)
Post by: stopit33 on August 04, 2007, 08:25:00 AM
QUOTE(JBmtk @ Aug 4 2007, 02:49 PM)
obviously u never ran linux or go as far as to read about it. Point is, people can do OTHER things such as running linux (xdsl/gentoox), XBMC, linksboks, and playing old games (ROMs), NOT piracy. And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games. So no, your pathetic interpretation is not ok, ok?
Why mod your Xbox you can do all that stuff on your pc? not too convinced about playing ROMs is it legal you will have to enlighten me on that one?.
"And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games"
so how do you play your backups without burning them 1st?.
there are 2 sorts of people here who talk about backups 1st is the guy who thinks its his god given rite to backup his games, not true its illegal
2nd is the guy who wants to backup his games so the original don't get scratched, mmm not too convinced about that, the DVDs would have to be in a rite mess fore them not to play, so you should take more care of your £40 games so they don't get scratched
Post by: Eksyte on August 04, 2007, 08:36:00 AM
QUOTE(JBmtk @ Aug 4 2007, 02:49 PM)
obviously u never ran linux or go as far as to read about it. Point is, people can do OTHER things such as running linux (xdsl/gentoox), XBMC, linksboks, and playing old games (ROMs), NOT piracy. And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games. So no, your pathetic interpretation is not ok, ok?
ROMs are generally pirated, too. Unless you have all of the original games, they're pirated.
Let's be realistic, here. Most people who have a modded 360 want to be able to play copies of games they don't own and didn't pay for. Sure, SOME modded 360 owners use it for more reputable things, but MOST people use it to play illegal copies of games.
Although, mod chips aren't the primary method used to mod 360s, so these raids don't really have an effect on the 360 modding end.
This post has been edited by Eksyte: Aug 4 2007, 03:37 PM
Post by: hasemike on August 04, 2007, 09:01:00 AM
By the way i am in Germany, where these modchips / flashing firmware are legally available as they should be. On a side note, i would never ever give anything voluntary to the police / authorities in a situation like this, certainly not non related hardware like your laptop and pc. Don't forget less/no evidence = no case.
Furthermore, what is legal and not legal is decided by people that we give political power, make smart choices next time and you can end up with a government that allows softdrugs, prostitution, downloading, modding, and driving 300km an hour on the highways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
This post has been edited by hasemike: Aug 4 2007, 04:09 PM
Post by: stopit33 on August 04, 2007, 09:13:00 AM
QUOTE(Eksyte @ Aug 4 2007, 03:36 PM)
ROMs are generally pirated, too. Unless you have all of the original games, they're pirated.
Let's be realistic, here. Most people who have a modded 360 want to be able to play copies of games they don't own and didn't pay for. Sure, SOME modded 360 owners use it for more reputable things, but MOST people use it to play illegal copies of games.
Although, mod chips aren't the primary method used to mod 360s, so these raids don't really have an effect on the 360 modding end.
At last some one who is a relist,
just one other thing JBmtk what would you do with XBMC? let me think you could convert all you DVDs to xvid/divx so you didn't SCRATCH them and stream them to your Xbox, or you could be downloading illegal DVDs/xvid/divx? who knows?
Post by: Mikeizzle on August 04, 2007, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: yourgod78 on August 04, 2007, 09:38:00 AM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:25 AM)
Why mod your Xbox you can do all that stuff on your pc? not too convinced about playing ROMs is it legal you will have to enlighten me on that one?.
"And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games"
so how do you play your backups without burning them 1st?.
there are 2 sorts of people here who talk about backups 1st is the guy who thinks its his god given rite to backup his games, not true its illegal
2nd is the guy who wants to backup his games so the original don't get scratched, mmm not too convinced about that, the DVDs would have to be in a rite mess fore them not to play, so you should take more care of your £40 games so they don't get scratched
I deleted what I said, but don't be such a tool that would piss on Americans rights.
Ya know dude if you keep stroking these assholes in washington, and buying into their b.s. your eventually gonna get something in your eye.
This post has been edited by yourgod78: Aug 4 2007, 04:43 PM
Post by: pug_ster on August 04, 2007, 12:55:00 PM
Don't be surprised that if someone wants to buy a modded console in a few months, that person will probably buy it from a foreign country, where the US has little or no juristidction in. It is only a matter of time.
Post by: epsilon72 on August 04, 2007, 01:38:00 PM
QUOTE(appleguru @ Aug 2 2007, 10:32 PM)
The fact that we're wasting taxpayer's money and that we diverted hundreds of personnel whose job it is to protect our borders away from their jobs to go after people like us is sickening.
I agree with this. But then again, money is what makes the world go 'round....why worry about things that really need our attention when we can be going after those who are "interfering with a company's profits"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Although despite what these companies think, installing modchips in a console doesn't do jack to their precious bottom line - that is only affected when people decide to pirate games.
This post has been edited by epsilon72: Aug 4 2007, 08:39 PM
Post by: pirichios on August 04, 2007, 03:31:00 PM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 05:13 PM)
At last some one who is a relist,
just one other thing JBmtk what would you do with XBMC? let me think you could convert all you DVDs to xvid/divx so you didn't SCRATCH them and stream them to your Xbox, or you could be downloading illegal DVDs/xvid/divx? who knows?
its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.
P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)
This post has been edited by pirichios: Aug 4 2007, 10:32 PM
Post by: Chancer on August 04, 2007, 03:59:00 PM
QUOTE
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool?
You of course realise that XBMC is not some open source freeware (Developed using XDK and copyright code without permission.) You can't use this as a legit reason for chipping an Xbox as regards legal purposes.
The reason I mod stuff is just for the sake of being able to do it. I am not interested in backing up my games (My originals are pristine and used by my kids correctly) I am not even that bothered about what the box does after (probably unique in that respect). I mod it to see what can be done then move on to something else.
I think the people they should chase are the distributors of pirate software and games. At the end of the day if these people did not do what they do on such a grand scale the guy who chips the boxes would be left alone.
They are trying to cut off the supply at source as they have not been successful in stopping pirates.
This affects everyone and now has a lot of people running scared.
Post by: soggypants on August 04, 2007, 04:09:00 PM
sorry to hear that, i hope you win the fight.....lawyer up maybe?
Post by: stopit33 on August 04, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 10:31 PM)
its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.
P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)
Man I know all about that stuff and I know what MOST people use it for and it to play copy's end off, tell it to the judge bud and see if it helps
Post by: pirichios on August 04, 2007, 04:22:00 PM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 5 2007, 12:15 AM)
Man I know all about that stuff and I know what MOST people use it for and it to play copy's end off, tell it to the judge bud and see if it helps
well im not arguing with a judge, im arguing with you. Running linux is still legal and i use it to run xmugen if these guys had cromwell bios's in the modchips, they do fall on the exception of the DMCA. know your laws before using the judge card man.
and chancer you are correct. but the fact that you say that only pirates should be prosecuted, tells me that part of you wish the xbox had legal homebrew. Hell, im pretty sure even though you moved on to other things you probably stayed with the xbox for a while to see what it could do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
This post has been edited by pirichios: Aug 4 2007, 11:27 PM
Post by: JBmtk on August 04, 2007, 10:26:00 PM
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:13 AM)
At last some one who is a relist,
just one other thing JBmtk what would you do with XBMC? let me think you could convert all you DVDs to xvid/divx so you didn't SCRATCH them and stream them to your Xbox, or you could be downloading illegal DVDs/xvid/divx? who knows?
yep, that is exactly it. In fact, that is what every media center is used for; Streaming media, which of course would have to be pirated, in your typical bootlegeed divx format. To hell with ripping your own movies onto your hard drive! Who would do that? /saracasm
Maybe because 1) you can transport them better 2) Easier to access 3)You can read them better off of a Hard drive 4) Can easily sort movies/music better 5) and ur a dumbass
Theres not point in arguing if anyone pirates anything because no one can prove it. Go ahead and keep on blabbering and accusing people on here.
QUOTE(Mikeizzle @ Aug 4 2007, 09:32 AM)
Dude, that sucks, i'm sorry to hear you got bit by corperate america. If you can, defend your self as much as possible in court, prove to these suckers that the average citizen wont be feared into this stupid excuse to make more money. Personally i think its bullshit that they do this to people when they cant even provide someone with a job, its not your fault you dont have work, you're just an entrapenuar making an honest buck. The fact that they're taking you to jail over some stupid code and a piece of silicon is just well.... retarded. Hang in there man.
I agree %100
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 03:31 PM)
its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.
P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)
agreed, xbmc isnt meant for piracy. Pretty much ANYTHING you use could potential be used for piracy, a knife could kill people and some do kill people, but others don't. You could also use a knife to say, slice butter, make a cake, sharpen a rock, and other shit that u'd see on ur typical "only $19.95" infomerical. Justin like in XBMC, you can watch youtube vids and surf the web, and loads of other I'm sure ur all aware of.
BTW, ROM's were never declared illegal, since all those games are no longer in production. And although many dispute over the legalites of it, no one has been prosecuted against owning them or distributing them. But don't worry mom (stopit33), I own over %90 of N64 games and all of my orignal xbox games and movie dvds, but I don't need to prove anything to you (stopit33) any further. If you would like, I can take a picture of all of my crap with a little ripped out piece of paper with my name on it just so you can sleep better at home, tucked in in your bed which is of course surrounded by all of your original casing of movies/games/music.
This post has been edited by JBmtk: Aug 5 2007, 05:29 AM
Post by: JBmtk on August 04, 2007, 11:04:00 PM
They usually don't go over buyers. Its gonna be hard to charge a buyer into doing jail time or suing them. Just like in marijaunia, if your caught smoking it, you get a fine or what not, but if your dealing, then thats big time jail time.
Chances are he's cooperating, but the FBI or ICE rather will not go after the buyers, maybe other installers or friends of his that helped him install/sell/advertise. I don't expect a harsh sentence. Probably probation like someone suggested and a fine, although I'm not all too familiar with the consequences of the DMCA.
Its gonna be the first trial of its kind, so there gonna try to hit them hard, but I think the judge will realize that this is crap and unfair to do. Its not like its the one shop in San Diego or wherever that actually sold orignal xboxes with a 500GB hard drive in them preloaded with games out of a retail store across the street from one of the manufactures of the games! The owner/employees if I can recall had to spend like 5 months in jail and pay a hefty fine.
Heres another story
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/news/2003...mod-chip-sales/
This post has been edited by JBmtk: Aug 5 2007, 06:05 AM
Post by: ekruob on August 05, 2007, 12:50:00 AM
QUOTE(JBmtk @ Aug 5 2007, 03:04 PM)
The owner/employees if I can recall had to spend like 5 months in jail and pay a hefty fine.
Heres another story
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/news/2003...mod-chip-sales/
Since I assume the penalties have not been increased, FallsInc should get away with a slap on the wrist and a fine amounting to whatever they can prove he made out of the business.
If big-time modders and pirate-games sellers get 5 months, it would be unfair to impose anywhere near the same penalty onto FallsInc.
And for those above that are referring to what FallsInc did as a 'felony', then I'm sorry but you need an English lesson:
fel·o·ny
n.
1. One of several grave crimes, such as murder, rape, or burglary, punishable by a more stringent sentence than that given for a misdemeanor.
2. Any of several crimes in early English law that were punishable by forfeiture of land or goods and by possible loss of life or a bodily part.
What FallsInc. did, despite what Sony may propagandize, is classified by law as a 'misdemeanor'.
This post has been edited by ekruob: Aug 5 2007, 07:58 AM
Post by: stopit33 on August 05, 2007, 06:20:00 AM
[/quote]
its good to know that every one who uses XBMC (witch is an illegal program) uses it to stream there DVDs pleas tell me how you get past the copy protection on your DVDs so you can put them on your pc? I think that's illegal too?
Post by: Chancer on August 05, 2007, 06:47:00 AM
QUOTE
and chancer you are correct. but the fact that you say that only pirates should be prosecuted, tells me that part of you wish the xbox had legal homebrew. Hell, im pretty sure even though you moved on to other things you probably stayed with the xbox for a while to see what it could do
Oh I still have multiple modded Xbox consoles running various dashboards and apps. i know backwards way round what they can do but what i am saying is that was the interesting part of it all for me. It is a shame that this little avenue could be closed off because of people modding merely to pirate games, but I have to say i believe that is the major reason, but accept that not everyone does this. The people that do not are being punished for the majority that do. It's not fair but it happens.
Post by: JohnnyVegas on August 05, 2007, 08:25:00 AM
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah.
Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.
It too complicated to get into.
Don't drop the soap.
Post by: stopit33 on August 05, 2007, 08:27:00 AM
QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Aug 5 2007, 03:25 PM)
Bummer. That's a saaaaad story...
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleeping.gif)
Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.
It too complicated to get into.
Don't drop the soap.
rofl that is so funy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
This post has been edited by stopit33: Aug 5 2007, 03:28 PM
Post by: halofun121 on August 05, 2007, 12:09:00 PM
We can freaking build computers, mod cars, but this isn't illegal. How is it different? If anything, you probably have more pirates on the computer downloading music and burning discs. You probably have more people smuggling drugs in a car.
Yet it's funny. Mexicans cross the border every day, and the government is providing illegals with services that should only be held by citizens. What the hell is going on here? I don't condone illegal activity by any means, but I just love it when the government breaks their own laws....
Post by: beal209 on August 05, 2007, 02:38:00 PM
This post has been edited by beal209: Aug 5 2007, 09:39 PM
Post by: mrpeach on August 05, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 05:31 PM)
P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)
Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.
Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.
Post by: pirichios on August 06, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
QUOTE(mrpeach @ Aug 5 2007, 10:42 PM)
Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.
Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.
i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform
This post has been edited by pirichios: Aug 6 2007, 07:35 AM
Post by: stopit33 on August 06, 2007, 08:41:00 AM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 07:28 AM)
i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform
I really do apologies for my assumption that every body who uses a moded Xbox is a pirate that was wrong of me sorry.
On the other hand my point is as far as I know it is illegal to chip/softmod a Xbox, and I know what a great program XBMC is as I use it myself, what I am trying to point out not very successfully is people think they can backup there bought DVDs to there pc and stream them using XBMC quite legally and that's not the case in most country's, the DVDs in most cases are copy protected and you need a program to sort that stuff out, you cant just put a bought DVD into your pc DVD drive and copy it to your hard drive, so in reality they are pirating there own DVDs as the law stands in most country's, I am not saying its a good law but it is the law and we cant pick and choose witch law we like.
Post by: ekruob on August 06, 2007, 09:50:00 AM
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 04:28 PM)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform
You are obviously unaware that:
1. Only games studios have legal copies of the XDK - so anyone outside of said studios cannot ever legally use them
2. GentooX has already had a valid Media Center edition available for some years now!
So for all intents and purposes no one can:
1. claim that XBMC is legal to run on their own Xbox.
2. claim there is not a legal Media Center alternative.
This is also important as this legality of XBMC applies to pretty much every country in the world... e.g. in Australia it is perfectly legal to mod your Xbox - yet you could still go to court for installing XBMC onto someone else's Xbox (and be convicted).
So be careful what you claim - installing XBMC is actually a worse crime (direct blatent breach of Copyright) than installing a chip (indirect breach of para-Copyright / meta-Copyright); both in the eyes of the law, and morally! :-P
This post has been edited by ekruob: Aug 6 2007, 05:03 PM
Post by: 80107 on August 06, 2007, 10:02:00 AM
This is an open letter to anyone who may help those affected on Aug. 1st. I was one of those directly affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I am hoping to join together all those that were affected buy these raids in support of each other. I am suggesting that we may possibly hire a single specialized attorney or law firm to represent us against any charges that may be filed against us. I have submitted an email listed below that I have sent to a couple of site owners that I believe were also affected. I am asking also for the help of the gaming community and others in these efforts. We will most likely need to compile a list of these sites and/or the people affected so that we may contact each other with ongoing information regarding our issues. I am also asking that a possible forum posting to help us all find a specialized law firm to defend us as well as a legal defense fund be set up for this law firm. It would be great if we could find a law firm that would offer their services at a reduced rate. Of course each of the defendants would each contribute to this fund as well. I believe that this may be the best and only way for us all to fight any charges that may be brought against us. I am not a rich man by any means. I live in a small house that is almost 20 years old and drive a 10 year old van. I am self employed and work alone. This is not some large business that has corporate jets to fly around in. The results of this raid may very well bankrupt me and I may have to start my life all over again. They have taken my life away from me and I don't know what to do and this is way I am asking for any and all help. I am not asking for any personal sympathy, just the help we all need to fight for our personal rights and freedoms that the government and other want to take away from us all. The actions of these raids and laws like the DMCA effect us all. I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.
Please reply or post with any help or guidance you can offer us. We really need the help from you and the public community to fight against these raids and any charges.
1) We need a list of the 32 that were raided.
2) We need a specialized law firm to help us.
3) Setup a legal defense fund and ask for community donations.
Those of us that were affected by the raids will each contribute to this fund and I will be the first to contribute, but I know that it will never be enough to fight any lengthy legal battle.
**Below is a copy of an email that was sent to a couple of known sites that were affect on Aug. 1st
Hello Site,
I am writing you because like yourself, I was also affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I believe that all those that were affected would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.
I have hired a local attorney to help me individually, but believe that all of us would benefit greatly to pursue the hiring of a specialized law firm attorney that would take us all on in a single case against the government. We could all contribute to a single fund for this attorney and could even ask the public and community to help us in our defense by contributing to this fund. It would be an even
This is just an idea, but I believe from what I have read in the forums that the community could help us and rather than spending what little money we have on a local attorney that may not be knowledgeable enough in the specific laws, we find one that is. Maybe the gaming community and forums could help us in finding a knowledgeable and reputable law firm that would defend us? Just thoughts, but again I believe we will need to help each other in this time of need.
There are potentially 32 separate individuals that could form a single alliance to fight against any charges levied against us in court. Think about it and let me know your thoughts.
Another idea is to start a blog site for us all. It could either be a closed or an open forum and could even ask for donations to this legal fund. We may even inquire of xbox-scene.com and other forum/community sites for some help.
I really think that we all have to come together to help fight this. If you know of any others that were affected directly by these raids I would ask of you to pass this information on to them as well.
Post by: ekruob on August 06, 2007, 10:14:00 AM
QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM)
I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.
Interesting - you should be better placed than some of the other 32 then... the fact that you only sold the chips will reduce your charges.
As long as your chips did not have any Copyrighted data on them (e.g. hacked BIOSes) then you could get away with the minimum penalty :-)
Do you have any priors?
Also, from the sound of both FallsInc and yourself, you two hardly sound like your average big-time chip sellers?! Surely there have to be 32 other gigs operating significantly larger ops?! Sounds like someone was having trouble tracking them down!
This post has been edited by ekruob: Aug 6 2007, 05:31 PM
Post by: blueness on August 06, 2007, 10:15:00 AM
I'm so tired of this administration and its 1950s mentality on EVERYTHING!
Again. A complete and utter waste...
And Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony shouldn't be casting any stones (or getting the US government to do it for them). They've stolen/manipulated/deceived/etc. as much as anyone over the years.
Then again, none of this is about ethics. It's about protecting one's position of power.
Despite initial scepticism, I liked the Xbox/Xbox 360 and I liked the Wii. Alas, at its core Microsoft, Nintendo and the US government are like the soil in Stephen King's "Pet Sematary." It's sour.
And will Steve Balmer please exile himself to another planet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
Illegal fakes/clones are bad, but modding just adds value.
Sorry. This post is a bit of a random vent.
Good luck to those in the right and sorry for those in the wrong. Do unto others...
Post by: ekruob on August 06, 2007, 10:28:00 AM
QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM)
would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.
These make for some very interesting (and possibly useful) reading...
A bunch of Rhodes scholars examining mod legality:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...ns/2005/30.html
The same bunch of Rhodes scholars passing judgement in favor of said mods:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/high_ct/2005/58.html
This post has been edited by ekruob: Aug 6 2007, 05:35 PM
Post by: twinsrock on August 06, 2007, 02:14:00 PM
Donations from others would be great as well.
Charging $60 on a game and not being able make 1 backup copy of it doesn't sound right to me. Gov. needs to start looking at more important things, illegal immigration, cartel, murders, prescription drugs, THE WAR IN IRAQ. That is why our country is so messed up, they make big deals about stupid things. The important things are looked over ever to soon. Everyone knows our precious country makes billions selling illegal drugs, guns, etc. etc. to third world countries, ever watch Lord of War or Blood money or talked to anyone who has seen this first hand? How do you think 3rd world countries get guns, nukes, etc. etc. and where do you think their knowledge comes from?? Well from us of course... And don't even get started with oil, things are so corrupt there it's not even funny. There are people in the military that have come forward w/ some crazy stories that show how corrupt things are but they are quickly silenced.
Sorry for the rant :-)
This post has been edited by twinsrock: Aug 6 2007, 09:24 PM
Post by: ekruob on August 06, 2007, 06:10:00 PM
QUOTE(twinsrock @ Aug 7 2007, 06:14 AM)
They should have been more strict about this in the first place so that people knew what they were getting into. If you talked to these 32 individuals, I bet the majority thought that by just installing a chip and not flashing it then it was legal.
Yes, this blunt sledgehammer-style action sounds very draconian indeed...
BTW in Australia two things usually happen before something like this would even be considered:
1. For small-time ops, Sony (or whoever) usually pay a personal visit to the modder and issue them with a stern warning letter demanding that they cease operations or else they will be back with a warrant (along with a talk to them face-to-face). That at least seems slightly 'nicer' and fairer than a no-warning 4am raid.
It is obvious these raids were purely a media stunt.
2. The government has been forced into spending large amounts of money on advertising campaigns to ensure that the public is well-aware (or can be reasonably expected to be well aware) of exactly what is now illegal. From the sounds of things this has not been done in the US - and this may be a valid argument in court.
'If it is such a heinous crime - then why wasn't the public properly educated about it?'
Copyright (especially para-Copyright) law is not like other property law in that you cannot physically see the boundaries. In property law you can be reasonably expected to know when you are in the wrong - e.g. by breaking into property, by stealing a physical item, or by destroying someone else's property. These are all things that one can appreciate as being morally wrong. However unless you educate the public on the DMCA then no-one can honestly be expected to study it themselves. Here there is no fence to cross, no doors to break into, and no tangible chattel to steal - hence there cannot be expected for the general public to have an innate knowledge of where these invisible legal boundaries lie. This argument will hold up in court, and at least improve your chances of a lighter sentence if you can show that the government has not educated you on these new and intangible laws.
Or does the government over there count incarceration of innocents and the parading of them in the associated media coverage as the 'education' part?!
This post has been edited by ekruob: Aug 7 2007, 01:29 AM
Post by: FallsInc on August 06, 2007, 07:41:00 PM
my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...
an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives)
and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...
thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps.
Post by: jxl98c on August 07, 2007, 01:27:00 AM
This is a tricky one to comment on really. I'm not happy about seeing anyones life disrupted to this extent but it is clear that some things have gone on that aren't quite legit. but on the other hand I think some of what has happened is horseshit!
For me, the main driver for modding would be to run homebrew software. Now with XNA enabling the end user to write commercial quality games I have no reason to mod. and my 360 is as the day it was made (or returned from the warranty department as the case may be). If I want to faff around with hardware then I'd buy a PC and go down that route - on the other hand, I can see that there probably would not have been an issue if the mods being sold were to enable tilt control on a 360 controller?
To modify your own 360 for education is one thing, but to do this as a main income (presumably without declaring any taxes, etc.) is not quite the same. In the UK I think the tax office would be more bugged by this than anyone trying to claim copyright infringement. I guess the problem comes down to whether you were making the odd buck or had a $30,000 income from it and the state has missed out on a lot of taxes. This point is moot however if they try to do you for copyright issues, hopefully it is being used to gather information rather that prosecute you.
The trouble is, is that the general opinion of the non-modders is that modding is used mainly for playing pirated software, whether correct or not, we (or I) don't really have a good example of what you can do with a modded 360 that is legit. and really adds value to my system.
I'm sure that if every UK law was interpreted and my home investigated then I'd be writing a similar e-mail feeling hard done by about something, but I think realistically you have to put this down to bad luck and experience. I feel for you, and your family, and if it was me I'd be gutted also. As you said, you cooperated with the authorities and that should count for a lot. You could have quite easily have asked for a warrant and destroyed all of your stuff.
Good luck with everything, it's an awkward situation that's for sure.
Regards,
James
Post by: jmny6411 on August 07, 2007, 05:11:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 10:17 PM)
small update.
my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...
an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives)
and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...
thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps.
Was this definatley a sting? From someone who bought from you?
any news about your customer list-do you get the feeling that they are going after them? ( I know if you ask them directly they will give you a jerkwad answer just to keep them paranoid)
Post by: Sinner666 on August 07, 2007, 07:25:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 09:17 PM)
small update.
my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...
an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives)
and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...
thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps.
Good to hear about the kid. Just remeber to keep your priorities straight throught all this crap, which means the kid comes first.
Also you do have a lawyer right? If so you might want to send him to pickup the stuff just in case...
Or maybe I have been on the forums too long and have an overly developed sense of paranoia....
Post by: sicknasty413 on August 07, 2007, 09:15:00 AM
QUOTE(Sinner666 @ Aug 7 2007, 10:01 AM)
Or maybe I have been on the forums too long and have an overly developed sense of paranoia....
You think you're paranoid? I hear a car door shut outside and I sprint to my window to see if it's a cop! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Post by: grim_d on August 07, 2007, 08:48:00 AM
QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ Aug 7 2007, 04:15 PM)
You think you're paranoid? I hear a car door shut outside and I sprint to my window to see if it's a cop!
stop smoking crack then!
Post by: Sinner666 on August 07, 2007, 09:03:00 AM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 09:17 PM)
an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives)
Let us know how the pickup went and what you got back.
Post by: FallsInc on August 07, 2007, 10:49:00 AM
i got back a box, that had 4 empty hard drive boxes in it, and it had a few business cards from local PC shops in it, and they felt the need to take my high school ID card for some reason...
the other box has all xbox PSUs and other random parts, and some xbox hd caddies, and thats about it. they even came out and dropped it off. i do feel that for whatever the reason, this 1 guy is going out of his way to help me, cause there is no reason for him to drop off this stuff (that he admits that he doesn't understand why they took it), unless he genuinely felt bad for me (he could just have called me and told me to come pick it up just as easy). he's used to dealing with drug smuggling, and child pornography and border security, not some 20 something guy from northwest ohio thats good with a soldering iron.
lol, i forgot one thing. a sealed xbox monster component cable... sealed. who needs to investigate new in box cables?
This post has been edited by FallsInc: Aug 7 2007, 05:50 PM
Post by: reissy on August 07, 2007, 01:14:00 PM
You know what I say
HACK THE PLANET
This post has been edited by reissy: Aug 7 2007, 08:14 PM
Post by: 80107 on August 07, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
Help "Abolish the Digital Millenium Copyright Act" hosted on the web by the free online petition service, at:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nixdmca/
Post by: agibby5 on August 07, 2007, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 7 2007, 12:49 PM)
lol, i forgot one thing. a sealed xbox monster component cable... sealed. who needs to investigate new in box cables?
one word, WOW!!! I guess they were also caught up in the excitement, grabbing at any and everything they could. I never understood that part... how can they take stuff like that? I'm sure they still have stuff that's unrelated. Oh well, good luck!
Post by: Sinner666 on August 09, 2007, 01:55:00 PM
Charges, arrests, indictments ... ?
Post by: Jynteral on August 09, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
Mod Chip Raids: What Happens Now?
In the wake of the ongoing mod chip raids, I'm sure many people are wondering what happens next. So, whether you've been raided or are just casually following the story with an air of curiosity, here is a general overview of what can happen after the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement raids are completed. Of course, there can by any amount of time lag between these steps, and they can also occur in multiple different orders. In fact, some of these events can span years. Consider the following a general outline of the process that changes in actual application to most situations.
Phase I: Raid Aftermath
1. There is a raid, items are seized.
2. The seized items end up in a warehouse somewhere.
3. The ICE agents, along with the investigators and often the company who requested ICE enforcement examine the items and analyze their course of action. (In this case, it would seem that Microsoft, Sony, and/or Nintendo requested the raids since the mod chips theoretically affect their rights. Based on the press release, the ESA was also involved.)
4. This is the point in the process where there is typically the longest delay, while everyone analyzes their course of action. This would also be the ideal time for someone who was raided to retain counsel, before anything gets worse.
5. At this point, it is typically just an investigation, and no one has been charged or sued for anything yet.
Phase II: Initial Actions
1. During this phase, if someone is going to be released for lack of evidence or error, this is the most likely time. However, this may take some negotiations or arguments to get off free and clear, so to speak. If the party is released, the seized property should be returned in a reasonable amount of time.
2. The companies and/or the government may wish to enter negotiations for settlement.
3. The companies and/or the government may file initial temporary restraining orders or injunctions on those who were raided in order to prevent further activities.
4. The government may begin freezing assets or have warrants issued on future shipments.
5. During this phase, representation by counsel is probably the most important because it is still theoretically possible to avoid Phases III-V.
Phase III: Legal Action
1. The government may proceed with criminal charges, which can result in jail sentences and/or fines and/or forfeiture of seized property.
2. The companies may initiate a civil suit over the rights of theirs which were violated. This can result in monetary damages, permanent injunctions and/or restraining orders.
3. Counsel is necessary at this point. A public defender can be appointed for the criminal trial if the defendant cannot afford counsel.
Phase IV: Legal Outcome
1. If the defendant loses either of the above actions, the penalty will be assessed.
2. If the defendant wins, the property should be returned and the defendant can walk away free and clear.
Phase V: Counter Suit
It is possible for the defendant to counter sue on the civil matter, be that for defamation, anti-trust, or simple damages (this depends on the particular case). The government, however, is immune from suits of this nature in these circumstances.
Phase VI: Future Raids
What is important to remember is that a victory in this raid does not necessarily provide any protection from future raids. ICE may be back a year from now or ten years from now, and the particulars from this raid do not impact that future raid.
That is a basic outline of the process, and it is one that occurs in many industries frequently. While I personally still find it puzzling that the raids were on mod chip sellers rather than sellers of pirated games, as discussed in my prior post, the overall process should still reflect this outline. It is, unfortunately, a long, hard road after being raided by ICE.
Post by: buttface96 on August 16, 2007, 10:56:00 PM
Mike
Post by: busteduser on August 17, 2007, 01:28:00 AM
1) As some have stated, bringing attention to yourself is bad. It is natural due to the absurdity of the punishment for the crime. Your desire to reach out to others as a warning is an admirable trait that demonstrates you care about your fellow man. Unfortunately it doesn't help. It could be construed as obstruction of justice and tampering with an ongoing investigation. If you're going to reach out, it has to be full fledged and hope the media can paint you as a martyr. Otherwise, everything you say here is damaging. If there is *anything* they can find illegal in the materials they confiscated, skip the martyr approach and STFU.
2) A good lawyer goes a long way. This case proves that money talks so fight fire with fire. Do the best you can do within reason.
3) You will never get your seized hardware back. I'm sure some of it will end up in some agent's home too. When they took my computers, they also stole my UPSs, monitors, printers, switches, network cables, keyboards, mice, mouse pads, speakers, and I feel like I'm forgetting some things. The final documentation mentioned nothing more than the computers.
4) You stated you're not charged with anything (yet). My case took 1 year before I ever got offered a plea, and that was only after it was expedited b/c a new D.A. w/ a reputation of being tough on "cyber-terrorism" was replacing the existing one. That waiting period was worse than any punishment I endured as it was mental hell.
5) Arguing this case would be difficult, expensive, and probably not yield results better than a plea. If there was anything illegal (other than the modchips) then you probably cant win fighting it. If/when you get a plea, examine it thoroughly for errors. Specifically with regards to timelines. I analyzed mine 100 times before agreeing, and didnt catch many of the errors until years later, as I was happy to see some of what wasn't in there. For example, one clause stated that "In a period of 180 days" I had done something. However, I had only committed my 'crime' for 60 days at best. The one thing I did catch and disagree with was that it said I made 'private financial gain.' I never made a dime and in fact lost a lot of money. When I requested this be removed, they said that the existence of a ratio system (ftp site) was a currency. However, I never utilized the ratio, as only the 5 users on my site were friends. I wish I had been more persistent about getting this detail removed. Anything you don't correct will bother you for life.
6) You mentioned something about a child porn case taking priority. Those delays are what took a year for my case to move forward. I heard all about child porn cases, serial killers, pedophiles. I believe they tell you these things because they want you to feel you're on an equal level to these people, subliminally. Don't let this phase you. My crime was a post 9/11 follow-up and as such, I was referred to as a cyber-terrorist.
7) Try to think about the details of what communications you had already, specifically regarding the sting operation. Did you sell the modchip or did you sell the labor? It makes a difference regarding 'private financial gain' I mentioned before. Did you involve anyone else in your operation that they know about? If so, they can tack on conspiracy charges. You can get felonies for each 'crime' as well as a conspiracy to commit such crimes, effectively doubling your charges.
8) If you can swing it, try to be awarded 'discovery' when your case is over. It's a report of the investigation, so you can know what they knew about you. If you don't, you could have a lot of unanswered questions. However, ignorance is bliss, so knowing could just frustrate you that much more. Your call here, but don't sacrifice something else for this detail.
9) Federal sentencing guidelines force a judge to sentence you within a range, based on a point system. His hands are tied, so even if, like in my case, the judge says "this case is bullshit" and says a lot of nasty stuff to the prosecution IN COURT, he can't do anything about it. There are four tiers. In the first tier the judge can opt for lesser punishments of probation/house arrest/halfway house. If you have X points then you get X-X+2 years of prison. I don't remember the specifics and I believe they've changed in 2006 and 2007.
10) Start NOW collecting character letters from friends and family. A character letter is like a reference for a job. Have someone write about a 1 page document pleading to the judge for leniency and describing your good traits. Collect as many as you can get. Read them all, and don't feel compelled to use them all. These letters will also reveal a lot about the people around you that you never knew, and what they think about you. You'll be surprised by both the great things, and sadly, some people who fail to provide them will surprise and disappoint you.
11) Your attorney should try to push the D.A. to request the judge for a "motion for downward depature" due to your cooperation with law enforcement. When they told you they had a better deal for you by surrendering right then, they "railroaded" you which is illegal. Of course, they'll never be called on it, thats just good work and a pat on the back. However, your lawyer should be able to use this to prove "substantial assistance." It may not be enough, in which case they may want to turn you into a mole for that condition. In that case, that's your decision you have to live with. You have to decide if you want to be a rat and live with that, or if you want to take your raping like a man.
12) If/when you have your day in court, be prepared for the moment when the judge will ask you if you have anything to say to the courts. This is not the time to blame the Sony/Warner for profiting from retail albums, while also making money when someone pirates using their internet, cd burners, blank cd media, and then suing them. Apologize to the court, your family, Bill Gates, Nintendo, the taxpayers, and state that you admit what you did was wrong (or at least that you knew it was against the law) and that you'd like to move on with your life and have a positive impact on society. If you can stomach it, the fact you have a new baby should be used as a bargaining chip.
13) If you're in school, stay in school. Get good grades. Get a job. Excel at your job. Prove that even in the face of adversity, you don't buckle, you thrive. It will give your lawyer one more thing to say about you, and you'll prove it to yourself as well. Plus, the workplace is another place to get character letters.
14) If your lawyer decides the plea is the best route, he may arrange a meeting for you and the agent(s) involved in your case. In this case, you're essentially confessing, and they'll write the plea based on some of this information. They'll probably have a human lie detector there too. His job is to sit there, not speak, and watch you and see not only if you're telling the truth, but if you'd be a credible witness. There is no need to lie here, but you don't have to volunteer anything they don't ask for. Also, these guys practice their interrogation skills and do some routines like you've seen on TV (good cop / bad cop). Don't be nervous, and keep this meeting light-hearted. You can even have some fun with it if you're a good conversationalist. Body language speaks volumes, and you can turn some of it back on them. If the investigative agent strikes a nerve or touches a subject you don't like, turn your body away from him, giving him less attention. Direct some questions and comments toward the lie detector. You can have a *little* fun with this. Obviously, don't overdo it.
15) Settle the score with your girl's parents. Remind them that you fathered their grandchild. Take the approach I mentioned for the court room. Admit that while anyone can agree what you're in trouble for is bullshit, you did know that you were breaking the law, and you're deeply sorry for putting your/her family through stress. Explain that you need the support of your friends and family most right now, and that anything less is unacceptable. I assume its the mother-in-law, as its always that
I have a lot more advice for post legal system, but this is a lot as is, and thats a while away. The advice and concerns I can give on living out your sentence would only bother you now more than help. Take care, be careful, stop talking on public forums that law enforcement (HI THERE!) reads. Google some breathing exercises and stress management techniques. This will be over one day. For now, read what I've contributed, and take steps to lead a productive life. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Post by: busteduser on August 17, 2007, 02:04:00 AM
I'd be careful about paypal and such. They've been known to freeze accounts especially with 'charity' cases as they have their own. You may want to transfer any donations as quick as they arrive. The gov did freeze my accounts which left me stranded, unable to get gas to get to work, unable to buy food, and limiting my ability to receive money to just borrowing cash from people physically.
Also, I realized I left some questions in my post that might compel you to answer them. Don't feel you have to do so publicly. If you want to talk further, you can pm me.
This post has been edited by busteduser: Aug 17 2007, 09:05 AM
Post by: airthatkills on November 02, 2007, 12:12:00 AM
I do have some questions that have never been answered but have thought about.
1. If I bought the hardware ,don't I own it?
2. If I don't own it and am only granted a license per se , then isn't my hardware under a perment warrarty?
3. If I do own the hardware and add a mod to it , isn't the mod a new type of software? and I am free to do as I please?
I always thought if I bought the harware , I owned it. Like my computer. Do you see where I'm going with this ?
Good luck
Post by: Brogen on December 26, 2007, 12:07:00 PM
In reading forums about situations like this it appears that everyone forgot possesion is 9/10ths of the law. its bought, not leased or rented. also assumption makes a ass out of me and you both. to assume someone is going to pirate games, music, or movies is just as wrong. boycotting just dont get the messege out anymore. any system that was purchased should be left up to the owner what to do with it. i'm seeing the whole situation as property rights (property right - the legal right of ownership). but what truly amazes me not one person on a forum that i've seen has suggested a class action suit or a that lawyer hasn't seen the possibilities here. instead of waiting to be put on the defensive maybe its time for people to unite and bring the fight to whoever it may be trying to abuse this law that everyone feels is unjust.
i know i'll sign on for a lawsuit like that, but if ya haven't guessed it then i'll tell ya straight. i'm no legal expert, dont know squat about the legal system. i cant even find the damn shift key to use caps, but i do know i signed no contract saying i wouldn't pay to have a system moded or do it myself. cause believe it or not, noone here just wants a game system anymore. a entertainment system is what people want today. And i do believe everyone here was told that some things you have to do yourself. thats what drove these modders to tweak systems to the way they prefer them.
so i'll end with this note for those that are gonna call me a idiot or stupid. have you forgotten how to think for yourself without being told what to believe?
Post by: Corpmsan on January 05, 2008, 04:45:00 PM
When it comes to sentencing you will most likely have a Probation Officer prepare a report in which they opine about what your punishment should be. He will write about factors of mitigation (things in your favor) such as the fact that you cooperated and admitted wrongdoing early on in the investigation, you are a productive member of society (significant employment record, school attendance, etc.). He will also write about factors in aggravation such as previous criminality with increasing seriousness, failure to pay financial obligations like child support (this is kind of a big deal as the opposite could help to keep you out of prison. If you are a significant source of financial support for a child.)
One thing to consider is the fact that the crime for which you are charged is in evolution. What I mean by this is, there are clear wrongdoers when it comes to DCMA. These would be those who profit by stealing the intellectual rights of corporations, then there are those who simply want a legitimate way to insure their investments. This would include backing up software which was legitimately purchased. Usually with such societal laws in flux, the pendulum swings to extremes before settling on reasonable laws.
So what would be reasonable given the current situation you might ask. IMHO it would be reasonable to expect that if a corporation is providing you an intellectual property for use only, then they should be responsible for its repair or replacement for its intended lifetime. What is an intended lifetime? It can be argued that game consoles have a lifespan of 10 years while software and music has an unlimited lifespan. Anyway, that is just me opinion. One thing to remember in all of this is that there is NOTHING wrong with a company making a profit. If you think otherwise then you should probably be living in Venezuela or the newly reemerging Soviet Union. It is also important to understand that the United States works under what is called a Market System. Simply put, this means that most goods are traded under the supply versus demand system. If you feel that video games cost too much money and you want to stick it to the man by copying them illegally, then you must also understand the unintended consequences of your choice to do so. First, and most importantly, if EA fails to make a profit on selling games, then they will cease producing games. This means that there would be no more Madden Football or SOCOM and any other games that we all love to play.
This might all eventually turn into a system that models Linux. Where the ability to make video games becomes open source and people make video games for systems for the love of making video games and we all enjoy the fruits of their labors. Unfortunately for this to hold true then you can expect to pay about $2,000 for your Xbox and PS3. Trust me when I tell you that even though you may think that $500 is too much to charge for a PS3, Sony is actually losing money on every console that they produce. How can this be you might ask? Well it is because they make up their loss by charging licensing fees to software producers who in turn, pass that cost on to the consumers.
The modding community is unfortunately made up 90% of people who are like HIV viruses. Their actions will eventually kill their host (video game makers). Remember that increased supply results in lower prices but can only occur when there is increased demand.
/Steps off soapbox
Post by: ecampbell80 on February 01, 2008, 12:44:00 AM
Post by: mrmyrtle75 on March 20, 2008, 11:26:00 PM
I just had a long ass post but I deleted it because I dont even think half of you people would get it anyway.
Sucks ya got popped man.....good luck
Post by: metaldawg321 on March 31, 2008, 07:25:00 PM
Our American government can be assholes, yet we have to deal with that. Sometimes, I wish shit like this would never happen. Did they literally like take all the good stuff away from you?
Post by: jaczar on May 01, 2008, 11:09:00 AM
and to think that they would pick you out of all these people to crack down upon. i mean hell they could go to the pirates like u said. but is modding actually illegal. does it condone anything illegal? its like installing a turbo on ur car. its not illegal and yet ppl do it to outrun police all the time. but id like to state that yes i live in the us. and yes i know lots of pirates... but the fact that they went after a modder is completely rediculous.
u should talk to someone and see if u can help crackdown on pirates instead of modders. and give them some info about the people in dalton that like to sell copies of games. tell them to check the local gamestop for people that do shit like that and maybe u can get some shit removed from you.
i dont endorce piracy myself and if there was some type of reward for that shit. damn right id turn there asses in. but the way i see it, it could help u.
Post by: calloused labia on October 19, 2008, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: zaythlevi on January 22, 2009, 07:38:00 AM