xboxscene.org forums

Off Topic Forums => General Chat => Politics, News and Religion => Topic started by: thesideinguy on March 02, 2007, 08:17:00 PM

Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: thesideinguy on March 02, 2007, 08:17:00 PM
I just found out about this yesterday, the word needs to get out. Please sign the petition

http://www.thepetiti...ction/409898348


It looks like a prety ugly ban this time. worse than before. Get the word out.
the bill to pass
http://www.govtrack....?bill=h110-1022
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: BoNg420 on March 02, 2007, 08:59:00 PM
Psshh, whatever happened to the right to bear arms?

What am i gonna do if there is a criminal in my house and I'm not allowed to have my Uzi!

BS
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on March 02, 2007, 09:06:00 PM
And people need Uzi's to defend themselves....  If you want to shower a crowd with bullets, then uzi would be good.  But a rifle would be good enough to take out a criminal.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: BCfosheezy on March 05, 2007, 08:35:00 AM
The problem here is I think everyone agrees but some people are less educated on the situation. Uzi's were used as an example. Nobody wants criminals to own Uzis. The difference is some of us know that legislation won't effect whether criminals can get uzis or not. Do you think just anyone can legally buy an uzi? The answer is no absolutely not. It is very difficult to get an assault weapon such as this. You have to have a background check done by the ATF. VERY few people will be approved. Then they have to pay the ridiculous price for this class 3 license. Then the government knows who has what and where. Next, you can only buy so much ammunition for that weapon.

Outlawing these weapons will have no positive effect. It will likely have a negative effect. It cannot keep the firearms from coming here. The illusion is that the weapons are brought here, sold legally and then criminals get their hands on them. So here's what you do to test this theory. Go buy a weapon. Sell it to a criminal. Wait for him to use it in a crime. Then I'll write you in prison. The firearm will be traced back to you. Since you're the legal owner, you're stupid to let your firearm slip out of your possession. Without a proof of sale and proof that the buyer is approved to own the weapon, the sale is unlawful and you will go to prison. That is not how this is happening. It doesn't even make sense.

The weapons that are causing problems are here illegally. The government does not know about them. This law will not have any effect on them. Now with all this being said who does this law hurt to remove assault weapons? Very few people are directly effected. Only collectors and hobbyists. Who cares about them?

The part that concerns me is, the movement to destroy America. It is a phased process. First the liberals slam the military and our defense. They make us out to look like the enemy. Now we enter a phased program of gun control. First take away the "assault weapons" that nobody can get anyways. Then the rest will be outlawed. The real problem here is, law abiding citizens will not have guns anymore. The people who don't care about the law will still have the weapons. These are the people using them for wrongdoing now, and they will still be using them then. Is shooting someone not illegal now? Then what makes you think that these same people will see that it is illegal to own a weapon and magically abide by the law? It is ridiculous to think this.



This post has been edited by BCfosheezy: Mar 5 2007, 04:39 PM
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: damam on March 07, 2007, 08:56:00 PM
i must say that out of all the assault weapons i have fired (admittedly not that many), uzi's are by far my favorite.  They are incredibly intuitive and but most importantly incredibly fun.  

Give it a try someday . . .
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: BCfosheezy on March 08, 2007, 01:39:00 PM
QUOTE(damam @ Mar 7 2007, 10:03 PM) View Post
i must say that out of all the assault weapons i have fired (admittedly not that many), uzi's are by far my favorite. They are incredibly intuitive and but most importantly incredibly fun.

Give it a try someday . . .


 

It's funny that recently people have been mentioning Uzis here as about about 2 weeks ago I got to shoot one. The Sheriff's office here has one and we took it out. It's rate of fire is extremely fast but I found it to be sort of cheap feeling. I wouldn't recommend one. It jammed on me a couple times and its open-breach style is really strange to say the least. It seems susceptable to dirt and foreign objects. I don't know, but I didn't like it.

Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: rms2001 on April 12, 2007, 06:43:00 AM
QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Mar 5 2007, 10:06 AM) View Post

The problem here is I think everyone agrees but some people are less educated on the situation. Uzi's were used as an example. Nobody wants criminals to own Uzis. The difference is some of us know that legislation won't effect whether criminals can get uzis or not. Do you think just anyone can legally buy an uzi? The answer is no absolutely not. It is very difficult to get an assault weapon such as this. You have to have a background check done by the ATF. VERY few people will be approved. Then they have to pay the ridiculous price for this class 3 license. Then the government knows who has what and where. Next, you can only buy so much ammunition for that weapon.


I don’t know about your state, but mine is different. My local gun guru happens to have several Uzi’es. Most are semi-auto and any Joe off the street can buy one with a simple ATF check. He also dose have a class III full auto model as well. Harder to get, but not that hard. They take three copies of your finger prints and do what ever it is they do with them, ATF dose a check, you pay a $200 federal tax stamp, pay for your new toy and away you go. This is over simplified but its about how it works.

Its really not that difficult at all to get a class III any thing. Of cores, state laws are always different from state to state. Mine is pretty straight forward and simple about buying any kind of firearms. There is nothing stopping me from walking into any gun store and buying every last bullet they have either. I once bought 10,000 rounds of 7.62x39 for mine and a few friends AK-47s and SKS, they didn’t even ask for ID.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: grim_d on April 12, 2007, 07:06:00 AM
QUOTE(BoNg420 @ Mar 3 2007, 05:06 AM) View Post

Psshh, whatever happened to the right to bear arms?

What am i gonna do if there is a criminal in my house and I'm not allowed to have my Uzi!

BS


well you could always do what we do here where guns are banned.

use your fist to turn his face into a pizza.

or if your a wimp theres always baseball bats/cricket bats/frying pans
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: w2kj on April 12, 2007, 07:41:00 PM
Texas had the right idea a couple of weeks ago...we have joined several other states to invoke the "Castle Doctrine".  We Texans now have a stronger legal right to defend ourselves with deadly force against intruders.

"Don't mess with Texas"

I say; let us have our assault weapons...for every criminal we shoot...is one less that we put on death row.

Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: Spency234 on April 13, 2007, 10:40:00 AM
QUOTE(rms2001 @ Apr 12 2007, 08:50 AM) *

I don’t know about your state, but mine is different. My local gun guru happens to have several Uzi’es. Most are semi-auto and any Joe off the street can buy one with a simple ATF check. He also dose have a class III full auto model as well. Harder to get, but not that hard. They take three copies of your finger prints and do what ever it is they do with them, ATF dose a check, you pay a $200 federal tax stamp, pay for your new toy and away you go. This is over simplified but its about how it works.

Its really not that difficult at all to get a class III any thing. Of cores, state laws are always different from state to state. Mine is pretty straight forward and simple about buying any kind of firearms. There is nothing stopping me from walking into any gun store and buying every last bullet they have either. I once bought 10,000 rounds of 7.62x39 for mine and a few friends AK-47s and SKS, they didn’t even ask for ID.


Nice post!

BC, you going to just ignore this one?
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: [H8]Wal-Mart on April 16, 2007, 12:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Spency234 @ Apr 13 2007, 05:11 PM) View Post

Nice post!

BC, you going to just ignore this one?


Uh, he got banned. Way to beat a dead horse.

Edit: I will add my opinion though. That post was misleading. A semi-automatic Uzi is just a non-accurate handgun/rifle hybrid at that point. There's nothing any more dangerous about it than any other weapon that shoots similar rounds of ammunition. So why SHOULD it be more difficult to get than something else? Next, he went on to say that it was easy to get a class III weapon because of a "simple ATF check". There is nothing simple about it. They do a full-background search as well as register this person with this weapon. This way if a similar weapon is involved in the crime, this person will be in the list of suspects. Then things like motive, and opportunity come into play. In the opportunity portion comes geographic location.

Also, the Shooting this morning in Virginia. Let's think about it. Everyone is arguing GUN CONTROL would have solved this problem. That's ridiculous. He wasn't supposed to have a gun there in the first place. So if rules stop things like this then it already wouldn't have happened. The guns are out there. People don't just go buy guns and then commit crimes because they will very easily be caught. Shows like CSI over-dramatize this sort of thing but it really is very easy to trace assault weapons. It's the weapons that the government doesn't know about that are the ones you need to worry about. These are the ones that no law will protect you against. These are the ones in the hands of criminals who don't care about your laws. If the gunman this morning would have thought that he would have been met with resistance of someone weilding another firearm he wouldn't have done it. Furthermore if one other person would have been carrying they could have put an end to the conflict. There is no way to get rid of them anymore. Our country was founded on them and our rights and liberties are guaranteed by them and our forefathers wanted us to have them to keep our government from becoming too oppressive and so we could overthrow it if need be. The solution is not to disarm the good people. The bad people are already armed.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on April 16, 2007, 01:34:00 PM
Our forefathers who drew the constitution never thought up of an efficient killing weapon like an semi-automatic weapon came into existance.  At that time, you are lucky if you can fire 10 rounds per minute.

By all means, give some raving madman the same weapons that a person have in the 1776 and see how many people he can kill before he gets taken down.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: [H8]Wal-Mart on April 16, 2007, 02:27:00 PM
QUOTE(pug_ster @ Apr 16 2007, 08:41 PM) *

Our forefathers who drew the constitution never thought up of an efficient killing weapon like an semi-automatic weapon came into existance.  At that time, you are lucky if you can fire 10 rounds per minute.

By all means, give some raving madman the same weapons that a person have in the 1776 and see how many people he can kill before he gets taken down.


Even if he had a FULLY automatic weapon he'd be alive a very short time afterwards because everyone else was armed then as well. You didn't do things like this back then.

Also, around 60 years before the constitution was ratified this was around. So they not only imagined it, it existed.

http://inventors.about.com/od/militaryhist.../a/firearms.htm

This post has been edited by [H8]Wal-Mart: Apr 16 2007, 09:37 PM
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on April 16, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
Yes it was invented 60 years ago before the constitution was written.  But you don't see widespread use of it until after 1800.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: _iffy on April 16, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
a little story...

Someone buys an assault weapon legally.
They bring it home and store it legally.

Someone else breaks into the house and steals the assault weapon.
The original owner reports it stolen.

Now you have an untraceable assault weapon on the street, which can be sold to anyone.


CSI can't do shit.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on April 17, 2007, 08:03:00 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2...g.ap/index.html

Take an example of Australia they limited the availability of guns.  Naysayers like the NRA says that would never fix the problem but it did.  Note that bonehead Bush's first response to this tragety is "Americans has the right to own bear arms to defend themselves."  Right.

Edit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/

Here's an article when European countries which totally ban handguns and saw a significant drop in deaths resulting in firearms.  If it can happen there, it can happen here.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: damam on April 17, 2007, 09:46:00 AM
QUOTE(pugster)

http://www.cnn.com/2...g.ap/index.html

Take an example of Australia they limited the availability of guns. Naysayers like the NRA says that would never fix the problem but it did. Note that bonehead Bush's first response to this tragety is "Americans has the right to own bear arms to defend themselves." Right.

Edit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/

Here's an article when European countries which totally ban handguns and saw a significant drop in deaths resulting in firearms. If it can happen there, it can happen here.


Why did you not use Mexico as a prime example of gun control working at its best?  Could it be that perhaps gun laws in mexico have just completely failed.  There gun laws became law in the 60's out of fear of a revolution and were constucted and based on the same gun laws in the UK except they have even stricter punishments.  They are considered to be among the stictest gun control in the entire world.

gun murders per capita (per nationmaster.com)
Mexico:
0.0337938 per 1,000 people  
United States:
0.0279271 per 1,000 people

South Africa adopted a similar gun laws and was instated in 2000 and later made sticter in 2006
0.719782 per 1,000 people  
which happens to be the highest in the world although it may be a little to early to judge this a failure here.

so yeah it could work out for us like it did in australia, or it could work out for us like it did in mexico take your pick.  being that culturally we have a lot more in common with mexico then australia, I know which way I think it will go.

QUOTE(_iffy)

a little story...

Someone buys an assault weapon legally.
They bring it home and store it legally.

Someone else breaks into the house and steals the assault weapon.
The original owner reports it stolen.

Now you have an untraceable assault weapon on the street, which can be sold to anyone.

I agree that it is a problem with hand guns and such (not so much with assault weapons) - but that has more to do with an irresponsible gun owner than anything else.  While I am not saying it is impossible, it would be very hard and at the very least very time consuming for a thief to steal my guns as they are in an extremely heavy safe, thats bolted to the floor and wall.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: _iffy on April 17, 2007, 10:17:00 AM
QUOTE(damam @ Apr 17 2007, 11:53 AM) View Post

While I am not saying it is impossible, it would be very hard and at the very least very time consuming for a thief to steal my guns as they are in an extremely heavy safe, thats bolted to the floor and wall.

most people store their hand guns in a shoe box in their closet.

You can make people get a license but you can't make people responsible, and that happens to be the very core of the problem.


BTW - thank you for having the safe.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: throwingks on April 17, 2007, 10:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 17 2007, 12:33 PM) View Post
The right to bear arms is a spin off from the British Empire and it is interesting how both countries differ today on this subject of gun control.  I think America could learn something from us British when it comes to restricting fire arms for civilian use.
The reason civilians are allowed to have guns is because we want our civilians to have power. Where would America be, if it civilians didn't have the "right to bear arms" during the American Revolution?

The sad part is, we have the "right to bear arms" to protect us from the government. But, as _iffy said, "You can't make people responsible."
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on April 17, 2007, 10:40:00 AM
QUOTE
Wal-Mart' date='Apr 17 2007, 05:18 PM' post='3964410']
Looks like it doesn't help as much as some might want us to believe

http://www.worldnetd...RTICLE_ID=15304

It turns out that there are quite a few sites that are reporting different numbers. NONE of which report and END to gun violence. That means that some people did not turn their guns in. This means that the law abiding citizens have disarmed. The people who have no regard for the law did not. Now the non-law abiding citizens who are armed can do what they want. Say what you want, but that is OBVIOUSLY what has happened.


worldnetdaily website is probably just as biassed as newsmax.  We can't end gun violence, as long as people have guns, there will be violence and deaths as a result of guns.  But we can certainly limit the amount of guns in the street, and limit the amount of deaths as a result of guns.  At least put a few safety checks before acquiring a handgun like:

Requirement for gun safety training
Child safety lock requirement.
Background checks for gun shows and other secondary market sales.
Pre-sale ballistic fingerprinting requirement.

QUOTE
gun murders per capita (per nationmaster.com)
Mexico:
0.0337938 per 1,000 people
United States:
0.0279271 per 1,000 people

South Africa adopted a similar gun laws and was instated in 2000 and later made sticter in 2006
0.719782 per 1,000 people


The problem with South Africa and Mexico is that the law enforcement failed to enforce the their gun control laws.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: Arvarden on April 17, 2007, 11:35:00 AM
QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 17 2007, 06:46 PM) View Post

The reason civilians are allowed to have guns is because we want our civilians to have power. Where would America be, if it civilians didn't have the "right to bear arms" during the American Revolution?

The sad part is, we have the "right to bear arms" to protect us from the government. But, as _iffy said, "You can't make people responsible."


Do you really believe an armed civilian population could take on the military might of the US armed forces on home ground in the 21st Century….and win?

What are the chances of America being invaded and successfully occupied by a foreign force intent on staying?

The right to bear arms was right for it’s time but now it creates more problems than it solves.  
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: [H8]Wal-Mart on April 17, 2007, 11:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 17 2007, 06:42 PM) View Post

Do you really believe an armed civilian population could take on the military might of the US armed forces on home ground in the 21st Century….and win?

What are the chances of America being invaded and successfully occupied by a foreign force intent on staying?

The right to bear arms was right for it’s time but now it creates more problems than it solves.


Are they not doing it in Iraq? Don't be a hypocrite. OF COURSE we could win.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: throwingks on April 17, 2007, 11:53:00 AM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 17 2007, 01:42 PM) View Post
Do you really believe an armed civilian population could take on the military might of the US armed forces on home ground in the 21st Century….and win?
No, I do not.
QUOTE
What are the chances of America being invaded and successfully occupied by a foreign force intent on staying?
Not very good.
QUOTE
The right to bear arms was right for it’s time but now it creates more problems than it solves.
There are benefits to owning guns, but there are also greater negatives. But, that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that politically, it would not be a good move for anyone in public office to take away more liberties, right now. People that don't even own guns, would get pretty upset over a loss of more freedom. It would be political suicide. Stats don't matter, in this case, until there has been many proven similars that are beneficial. So far the stats are not strong enough either way, for a public figure to make a case, either way.

It is sad, but political perception is apparently more important than civilian lives.

My personal stance is this:
All weapons should be destroyed. In every country, and the United Nations needs to police it. The United Nations should be the most powerful organization on the Planet. But, it won't happen because America, Britain and a few others feel they are above the U.N.

I know that is on a different level than what we are talking about. But, I think it is relevant because the reason America and Britain don't give in, is because they want to defend themselves in case something happens, and they don't want to give up their power. I also think that is the same feeling of most gun owners.
QUOTE
Wal-Mart' date='Apr 17 2007, 01:57 PM' post='3964514']Are they not doing it in Iraq? Don't be a hypocrite. OF COURSE we could win.
I think you misinterpreted what he was saying. I don't think he was trying to be mean. He was saying that "the right to bear arms" by civilians was relevant at one time, but not anymore. Our military fighters in Iraq are not civilians.
He was making the point that our military is strong enough now to defend us civilians that we do not need to worry about defending ourselves. The thing is, "the right to bear arms" is there to protect us from our own government as well.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: damam on April 17, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 17 2007, 06:42 AM) View Post

Do you really believe an armed civilian population could take on the military might of the US armed forces on home ground in the 21st Century….and win?


while it was not on home ground the vietnamese did it.  And 66% of america seems to believe that a bunch of motley iraqis are doing it right now.  Yet, my suspicion is that most of that 66% dont believe we could do the same at home.  theres irony for you.  if my country betrayed me that badly there would most likely be a split in the military so the civilian militias would not be taking on the whole of the american armed force.  In this event having a well armed civilian militia could literally decide the outcome.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 17 2007, 06:42 AM) View Post

What are the chances of America being invaded and successfully occupied by a foreign force intent on staying?

not very good right now, but who knows what the future holds.  this is some of the reason why i believe that gun control is so short sited.

QUOTE(throwingks)
The thing is, "the right to bear arms" is there to protect us from our own government as well.

that is the primary reason for it, all other things are just a bonus.  This part of liberalism is such a mind twister for me.  All of my liberal friends have an enormous, nearing paranoi, distrust of the government.  Yet on certain issues like gun control they are willing to give over complete power to the the very entitity they fear.  I fully admit that I completely dont get it.

QUOTE(pug_ster)
The problem with South Africa and Mexico is that the law enforcement failed to enforce the their gun control laws.

quite the contrary, they have successfully removed guns out of virtually all of the law abiding citizens hands.  Now groups like Mara Salvatrucha make enormous profits of selling guns on the black market to drug dealers and the likes.  Wow its a really good thing that MS-13 will never be here in america

on a side note i just got around to watching the history channels shows on the barbarians and the collapse of the western roman empire.  the parallels between groups like the visigoths and the lombards to groups like Mara Salvatrucha are really interesting to say the least.  I can easily see how in 150 years these groups could be knocking at our door with a force to recon with.  I can also easily see why rome dismissed them early on.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: throwingks on April 17, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
QUOTE(H8Wal-Mart @ Apr 17 2007, 03:42 PM) View Post
I for one think that if you want the U.N. to come into every home and search it from top to bottom for firearms you are sadly mistaken. That shows a flaw in your thought process. Actually you said "weapon", so how would you play baseball with no bats? How would you cut your steak with no knives? How would you get around with no cars? How would hunters hunt with no bows and arrows? America and Britain and all the other countries with backbones stand up when they are supposed to. When their national security is at risk and the U.N. won't take action. People that have always lived in peace do not understand those have lived in violence and they believe that they can always be reasoned with. Unfortunately they are simply wrong.
In the grand scheme of things I think nationalism is bad for mankind. It is further segregation, another invisible line that people shouldn't cross. As far as "weapon" I think it should be whatever is deemed appropriate by the U.N. Remember the U.N. is made of representatives of all nations. I, for sure, believe in local laws, and local law enforcement. But, I also think the world should be united not separated, and we should all strive to help one another.
I also know that this a fantasy, and too many countries/people would have to give up power to accomplish this. It simply won't happen because power corrupts.
QUOTE
No, you misinterpreted me, plain and simple. I got what he was saying and I was saying that it is still relevant because the sects in Iraq are keeping us from securing their country at this very moment, and they have worn our public down to the point where they have almost won. We are almost ready to leave and they will take their government back from the hands of democracy.
You're right. I misinterpreted what you said. Sorry.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on April 17, 2007, 03:03:00 PM
QUOTE
Wal-Mart' date='Apr 17 2007, 06:34 PM' post='3964490']
I don't agree that violence is directly related to guns as you put it here "We can't end gun violence, as long as people have guns, there will be violence and deaths as a result of guns." I would argue that you can't end gun violence no matter what you do. You aren't going to get guns off the street because they are a precious commodity to gang members, drug pushers, theives, murderers. They will not turn them in.
I don't think that making sure the gun purchaser is legit is a horrible idea, but I don't think it would have the impact that you think it does. People who intend to commit crimes do not legally purchase guns. It doesn't even make sense. It is easy enough to purchase a firearm that the government does not know anything about. It is much cheaper, it is not registered. Eliminating guns is not the way to go. Then you create a black market. We already have one, but the demand would be so much higher. The government has no way to track the guns then or tie them to owners. It really makes no sense. The notion of gun control is a false sense of security. It has been tried and tested and it didn't work ANYWHERE. You have articles that say it did. I have articles that say it didn't. I have friends from UK that live in areas where gun crimes happen semi-frequently. (It was never frequent according to them.) It simply doesn't work to disarm the citizens. It's too bad that we have crazy people out there, but we need to protect ourselves against them rather than tell them we are vulnerable and have no means to dedend ourselves.


The problem is that most people in the US think it is their right to own a gun.  Yes you are right that many guns will go to black market if we want to ban guns today.  Unfortunately, many naysayers here said this won't work so don't want to do anything about it.  Too bad Americans are not as disgusted people purchasing illegal weapons as people pursuing pedophillia.

I don't see that you have a reliable source that proves that taking away guns reduce gun crime.  Worldnewsdaily is not one of them.  The paranoid idea to 'protect ourselves' drove many people to kill each other with guns.

Look at this guy who did Va Tech, this person purchased guns legally.  Let's say if guns was illegal, he might've be busted for trying to purchase illegal firearms and this incident wouldn't have happened.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: gli7ch on April 29, 2007, 10:40:00 AM
If you ban guns, things will only get worse, then you will have people KILLING people over guns that cannot be easily obtained. I think eveyone should just chill out, and let life just keep going. I mean seiously, who the hell knows what is going to happen tomarrow? We could all be dead from a radioactive cloud of dust that just
"floats" right into our solar system.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: [H8]Wal-Mart on April 30, 2007, 09:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Spency234 @ Apr 30 2007, 01:21 PM) View Post

Wasn't there some shooting in Virginia somewhere a little while ago where the psycho bought 2 guns legally?  Even after he had checked himself into a mental hospital in the past?

(Mind you my heart goes out to those who were affected by this tragedy but I am not following the story one bit so if I am missing something here my apologies.)


Well I suppose that's my fault. I assumed that people would be able to follow the logic instead of attempt to find any fault with it they possibly could. He could have legally purchased fertilizer and rented a Ryder truck as well and taken out even more people just like the Oklahoma city bombing. Instead he knew he was going to commit suicide, so it didn't matter that he bought the guns legally. The whole point of my post was to show that if you intend to do a gun crime and not get caught, you purchase the weapon/s illegally so it cannot be traced back to you. This is common sense. There is not compensation for insanity. That guy was nuts, if you took guns away... let's face it he'd have found another way to kill a bunch of people. They are out there. THe only problem is, a person cannot defend theirself with a bomb. They can with a firearm. Making things illegal only makes the market demand higher and the prices skyrocket. If guns were illegal here people would be shipping them in JUST like they do DRUGS that are illegal. Yeah the law really stopped that traffic didn't it? You'd have a ton of guns coming in but nobody would know who originally purchased it, and nowhere to start. It's a poorly thought out idea. You guys are just afraid of guns and wish they would disappear. They never will, and you're in a fantasy land.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on May 01, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
You do have a point there.  As long as are people stupid enough to take illegal drugs, there will be a demand for it.  In our society, it is accepted that people who do meth, coke, crack, heroin, pot, etc... and there's no accountability of them for taking drugs, rather people who traffic them.

As for guns, we see others brandishing guns in tv, movies and the media as if they are toys.  Many americans are honed at the idea that they need a concealed weapon to defend themselves but its use is to injure or kill other people.  That's America's gun culture.  I'm willing to bet if someone start putting billboards and other pictures of people died as a result of gunshot wounds (IE people with their heads shot off), people will start giving up their guns.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: pug_ster on May 01, 2007, 11:54:00 AM
QUOTE
People saw the ads of "this is your brain. This is your brain on drugs" We've seen all the people jacked up from drugs, but who is winning that fight? The number of people that have experimented with drugs is very nearly 100%.


It sounds like this ad have adverse effect, but I don't see any proof that prove what you said.

http://www.montaname..._Us/results.php

Take the controversal tactic about the war on Meth on Montana.  It has been proved useful...
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: Heet on May 02, 2007, 12:03:00 AM
http://www.telegraph...2/16/dl1601.xml


Looks like not all of the UK has the same opinion as some in this thread.


[H8] Wal-Mart, go talk to a wall instead, you'll get further.  There are some on here that will tell you the sky is yellow just to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.  


I never understood the logic of it until one day it hit me (and actually it was an argument of racism with pug ster, gronne, and the other socialists).  

If you constantly argue a point even to the point of absurdity, the other guy will eventually give up.


One good point that I've read is that the UK gave up its rights so easily, but will never get it back.   The subjects (they aren't citizens after all) will more than likely never have that right again.




Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: Darkjasper on May 02, 2007, 02:57:00 AM
I say bring back the swords. That way you could fight face to face or be a ninja.  biggrin.gif
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: 47_M450N_47 on May 02, 2007, 03:25:00 PM
I signed that petition, nobody is taking my semi-auto AK away unless they pry it from the cold dead hands of my bullet-ridden body.  I'll keep fighting until I run out of ammo, then I'll go in with the bayonet!
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: jimbobjim on May 02, 2007, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(Heet @ May 2 2007, 07:39 AM) View Post

One good point that I've read is that the UK gave up its rights so easily, but will never get it back.   The subjects (they aren't citizens after all) will more than likely never have that right again.


I am from the U.K and am extremely thankful hardly anyone owns a gun (including criminals). You say we "gave up on our rights" but that was because we wanted to. In 1996 a man walked into a school in Dunblane Scotland and gunned down 15 little kids and a teacher. It was because of this, handguns were banned entirely in the U.K and firearms in general are considered a big no-no. Most people in the U.K have never even seen a gun, (this was true for me till i joined the army). Compared to the States our gun crime is extremely low and i can walk any street at night without fear of being shot. Even the police here don't carry guns.

I think it's strange that alot of Americans believe that banning guns will make matters worse, my country is living proof that that just isn't true. However, i can fully understand that getting rid of them for you is a scary prospect and will take away your ability to defend yourselves against the many criminals who'll still have them.

You must admit... it would be far better if nobody had a gun, That way nobody would need one.

Given enough time and commitment from the government and the good citizens of the U.S, 99% of your guns could be living room ornaments too  smile.gif
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: jimbobjim on May 02, 2007, 06:05:00 PM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ May 3 2007, 12:43 AM) View Post

I think the telegraphs summery sums up Britain’s gun culture quite well.  Our gun laws are strict but the judicial service is a complete joke regarding the sentencing of gun slinging dicks.  Some are publicly made of examples of but the majority serve little time due to New Labours negligence in prison funding.  

Instead of New labour tackling issues such as boarder control, gun/organized crime etc there focus is shifting to criminalizing law abiding citizens with on the spot fines such as putting your bins out early or dropping litter.  I see more traffic wardens in one day than I see Police officers on the beat in one week. It seems as if the government is only interested in making a return and then some rather than protect us.

When we get rid of Labour in our local and general elections we can begin to put great back into Britain.  Arming the population is not the solution, enforcing the law is the right and only option.


Well said. The bins out early thing is a real joke, I wrote a letter to my local newspaper about it a few months back.
But, i guess if that's the worst things we have to worry about, we haven't got it bad really. Just look at third world and developing countries where people die from fammine everyday. Then look at gun culture countries like the U.S where countless people are murdered everyday. Compared to other countries we in the U.K have it pretty f*****g great. We just need to vote out this money grabbing government.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: i800phyco on May 02, 2007, 07:41:00 PM
QUOTE
Wow its a really good thing that MS-13 will never be here in america

I wish you were right however they are starting to show up in Minneapolis, and if there making inroads here they must already have a foothold in Chicago and LA.
Title: "assault" Weapon Ban...please Sign The Petition.
Post by: damam on May 03, 2007, 08:37:00 AM
QUOTE(Heet @ May 1 2007, 07:39 PM) View Post

I never understood the logic of it until one day it hit me (and actually it was an argument of racism with pug ster, gronne, and the other socialists).  

If you constantly argue a point even to the point of absurdity, the other guy will eventually give up.

so true . . .
or they completely make it not worth the hassle to even utter a descenting view.  I have found that to be true in my personal life for quite a while when i argue against green politics in particular.  Especially when I was in college.  Its funny that when Hillary clinton gave her, "We are americans too" speech, I agreed with her.  I find it ironic, but not all that suprising, that a large part of her constituents and supporters wont extend the same courtesy to me.  


QUOTE(i800phyco)
QUOTE(damam)

Wow its a really good thing that MS-13 will never be here in america .


I wish you were right however they are starting to show up in Minneapolis, and if there making inroads here they must already have a foothold in Chicago and LA.

I said that sarcastically.  I live in a pretty small town and they are established here.  Everyone in my neighborhood knows where to get the illegal non-tracable weapons from.  The same place where most of my addict aquaintances get their meth from.  Why our local MS chapter of course.  What is scary is that if guns were banned, these are the people that would still have them.  I, on the otherhand, would be forced to give up all of mine primarily because the government already knows they exist.