Post by: Xbox-Scene on December 12, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
Quote
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Post by: gg22mm on December 12, 2006, 02:18:00 PM
Post by: rasstar on December 12, 2006, 02:25:00 PM
This post has been edited by rasstar: Dec 12 2006, 10:27 PM
Post by: throwingks on December 12, 2006, 02:31:00 PM
QUOTE(rasstar @ Dec 12 2006, 04:32 PM) 
...I remember I use to buy music cds then I stopped when the backup thing came about and I never bought another CD since.
QUOTE
Now I just pay for Napster to go and get unlimited music.
Post by: Crackmonger on December 12, 2006, 02:39:00 PM
I see piracy causing a force across the entire market that drives all profits down very slightly and equally. A good release and a bad release will probably both lose like 0.1% of potential sales due to piracy. If your product sucks, people aren't going to buy it - period. However, there may still exist close to the same number of pirated DVDs of "Crash" and "Gili", simply because both are a bargain at the price of free.
This post has been edited by Crackmonger: Dec 12 2006, 10:41 PM
Post by: eX_Do0mY on December 12, 2006, 03:00:00 PM
I downloaded Counter Strike Source, ended up buying it, showed my friends, and they all bought it. There, file sharing has generated at least $1000 in favor of VALVe.
Post by: HyperG on December 12, 2006, 03:08:00 PM
Post by: yaazz on December 12, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: mas10 on December 12, 2006, 03:22:00 PM
What the Hell man. music is still free to download last time i checked
Post by: tgm4883 on December 12, 2006, 03:27:00 PM
QUOTE(mas10 @ Dec 12 2006, 04:29 PM)
Hahahha u pay napster to download music????
What the Hell man. music is still free to download last time i checkedHe was pointing to the fact that he doesn't want to break the law. It is illegal to download music, unless you live somewhere like canada.
Post by: osotogari on December 12, 2006, 03:46:00 PM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ Dec 12 2006, 11:10 PM) 
If you ask me, sharing music and games is a form of marketing. If your content sucks, you'll "lose money" to piracy, because people will see that your content sucks.
isn't that Y thay put out demo's so people can try and see if thay want to buy or not to?
you can find demos of most games out to see if you like it without pirating
Post by: Kenosto004 on December 12, 2006, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: mlapaglia on December 12, 2006, 03:56:00 PM
QUOTE(Kenosto004 @ Dec 12 2006, 05:54 PM)
I would be mad as hell if I went to mc donalds and bought a burger only to find crap in a bag
isn't all stuff from mcdonalds crap?
Post by: Martinchris23 on December 12, 2006, 04:32:00 PM
In any other industry, you get to try the product. Whether it be clothing, food or even a new car. You get the ability to refund if you are not satisfied, or not purchase if you decide it's not for you (in the case of clothing at least).
The media industry are hoping their millions spent on advertising/trailers/gimmicks will overshadow the serious lack of content within. Once we've bought in, we cannot return the goods.
My example - I bought FIFA 07 for the 360. The game is full of flaws. The ball sometimes returns to the centre spot for no apparent reason, it crashes more times than I would care to mention and the commentary is almost always wrong. This to me is a fault.
To Electronic Arts (et al), it's a bug. Nevertheless, I went to return the goods under the Sale of Goods act. I was told it wasn't valid enough for a return, since the disc itself wasn't faulty.
Every piece of media (cinema included) should be on a try before you buy basis. Games should have a 24 hour policy. Game in the UK used to have a 10 day no quibble policy, which was great (and I believe now stopped). All stores should offer you at least a day to sample the goods. If they are as good as the price you would pay then there wouldn't be an issue.
There's the sting - we all know that a lot of the stuff out there isn't even worth the cost of a blank DVD.
It's about time the media industry was brought into line with the rest of the consumer world and give us the choice whether we really have to keep this piece of crap game just because we were suckered into buying it.
Martin
Post by: mortyblack on December 12, 2006, 05:07:00 PM
first of all its the price tag on these new games, and specially consol games are very expensiv. at top of this everyone knows that the xbox360 consol eat dvds from time to time becouse of a designer fault with the dvd player... the second is you dont know what is good or what is crap before you have played it for a while..... this stop me from buying games for a new console...
in the meanwhile i download like MAAAAD!!1!....
but when they are fading out the old console like the old xbox, i go on a SHOPPING SPREE and BUY all the good games i wanted. this for a nice price and nearly nothing compered to what it costed when the games was new and expensiv....
a lesson a game company and microsoft will never learn, if you got the rigth price for a product the more it will sell, the higher price the more people will download it...
Post by: Rustmonkey on December 12, 2006, 05:31:00 PM
However, with the onset of "downloadable" games, I believe every game should have an available demo or free trial version that is on par with the retail release, that way, you can test for yourself how you like the game and if there are any glaring flaws or bugs... if you liked it, then you could simply download the entire game from the source.
There will always be piracy... there simply is no way to stop it because there is always somebody with too much time on their hands.
Post by: xboxSlayer on December 12, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
Anyway, pirating is still bad. I glad that I'm at a point in my life that I can afford to buy an xbox360 and pay for a great game like Gears of War. I knew when the firmware hack came out is was a strait piracy mod. Tempting as it is, its just not worth the hassle if my xbox breaks down or I get banned from xbox Live.
Post by: Flagg3 on December 12, 2006, 07:15:00 PM
QUOTE(Rustmonkey @ Dec 12 2006, 07:38 PM)
The old cartridge type systems were deffinately the way to go - as soon as everything went to CD/DVD, it becaame much more likely to be copied. If the console developers stuck with a proprietary format, I believe we would have more leway in the returns department.
There were always ways to back up games on cartridge. Games could be backed up onto floppy disk, and easily distributed electronically as well. (The ROMS that are used on emulators are the same ones that were originally backed up and played from floppy disk.)
There was little to no copy protection back then, so if anything, it has gotten harder to copy games now.
Software will always be pirated in some form or another. As has been noted, the best way to combat it is to add value to the content via online play. That way, people are more willing to pay for something even if they could get it for free, if paying means having the ability to access online play, additional content, patches and upgrades.
Flagg
Post by: Trevante on December 12, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
QUOTE(xboxSlayer @ Dec 12 2006, 06:40 PM)
I knew when the firmware hack came out is was a strait piracy mod.
Believe it or not, but some people ( yes, some) actually make backups of the games they purchase, not just pirate games.
This guy's article has a point, although I don't think it's representative of the entire (or even a majority of) piracy market. Yes there are some who pirate and eventually buy, but it can't be proven that the majority of people who pirate eventually buy. Although technically, if you think about it, how can companies tell which sales were from people who originally intended to buy the software, or from people who pirated then bought?
Post by: Textbook on December 13, 2006, 01:53:00 AM
advertising.
In-game advertising is getting more and more popular. Surveys show gamers actually like in-game ads because it makes them more realistic. Somebody gets your game for free .. they still have to look at those ads.
You know what is sad though .. those ads aren't helping offset the prices for the games. Ok, so these ads are another form of revenue for the game companies .. so you would think the prices for these games would be lower? Nope..
Post by: Martinchris23 on December 13, 2006, 06:08:00 AM
QUOTE(Rustmonkey @ Dec 13 2006, 12:38 AM)
I agree that its kind of bogus not being able to return a game, but thats simply because you can extract the data with everyday hardware and then return the game, claiming not to want it.
I know this is how the industry see it, and I hate it.
Everyone tarred with the same brush. Just because you CAN copy the data, doesn't mean you're being dishonest and returning something you've pirated. There are some of us out there who actually abide by our local laws!
QUOTE(Rustmonkey @ Dec 13 2006, 12:38 AM)
There will always be piracy... there simply is no way to stop it because there is always somebody with too much time on their hands.
I disagree - you could virtually wipe out Piracy in a 12 month period by reducing the cost of games dramatically. How many people would still do it if you could purchase new games for $10 each?
Post by: DrJekyyl on December 13, 2006, 07:39:00 AM
On one side of it, (from personal experience) I bought a game from EB called Evil Islands. The box looked outright awesome. This game cost me $59.99. I drove about 5 minutes to my house, the install took about 10 minutes and I played it about 20 minutes. This game was nothing like what was advertised at all. I took it back to EB and they told me, "We do not return opened software, however we do purchase it for $3.00" My Thoughts on that was you just robbed me. Legally I might add.
This is what turned me to piracy. I told my wife I will never have that happen again. So now I always try before I buy. Demos just dont cut it. They are like trailers to a movie they show all the good parts.
On the other side, If a company makes something good, they deserve every penny. I downloaded Warcraft III and loved it. I ended up buying 3 more copies so I could play my wife and kids. These companies are very smart and are headed in the right direction. It was too much trouble to find cracks and ways of bypassing security when I think to myself I like this game I can go buy it and not have to worry about that. After that World of Warcraft come out and I now have 3 Accounts and got my brother and sister to buy themselves an account. Last I checked blizzard had over 1 million active accounts at 15 bucks a month. To me thats 15 Million a month. I am quite sure they wont be going banrupt the rest of thier lives or thier kids.
That is a very good example of "If you make a good product you will make money." and if you dont you wont. These companies are complaining and crying about profits, the only reason they are is because they want to make a killing off anything they make. They have the idea that if I make it I am guaranteed to get rich. In reality it isnt that way and it seems they are trying to get laws passed to make it so.
With the Xbox Modding and all that, it is the same way. If you buy something it is yours. But they think its still thiers. You sold it! Understandable if I modify it I break the warranty, but putting people in jail for modding something they purchased is just retarded. Yes put the people in jail for selling pirated games and software. That deffinately should not be legal. You didnt buy it you cant sell it.
I'll stop now got off on a rant. This is a touchy subject for me because of my experiences and wanting to have good ethics. I do want companies that make good products to make good money and at the same time I don't want someone robbing me and saying tuff shit.
Post by: Arvarden on December 13, 2006, 08:48:00 AM
On most items, especially software you can return the goods within 7 working days and get a full refund if you don't like it for X reason.
This news item only gives pirates the justification they are looking for.
Post by: Justincredibal on December 13, 2006, 10:09:00 AM
Nowadays some of the most popular games are on a subscription based system. I can go download CSS, but unless I have a legit CD key i cannot play on Steam servers. So I play the game but get tired of playing on non steam server's with little action, so I buy the actual game. I would not have gone out and bought the game if I was not able to play it before hand.
This does not happen however with music and console games like PS2 or Xbox360. There is no advantage to having the legit deal. True many people will say they will patronize the developer of the media they pirate if they like it, but it's not true.
In the end, pirating is becoming a waste of time. It comes down to saving a couple of bucks by risking thousands.
Post by: jimk72 on December 13, 2006, 03:05:00 PM
For A company to say they loose all this money from downloads is unrealistic! The original post is more ontarget than most people would think! I have been into gaming since before Atari 2600. If a developer creates a good quality game that fits the genre it was designed for they will sell and make profit. If they clone there game from someone elses and it cuts corners when designing it, it will end up in the bargin bin and most people would rather download it. When a consumer pays $40+ for a game that is worth about $10 they will remember it and the next time that developer releases a game you can bet it will not be bought. After they download it and they see the developer put in the effort to justify a $40+ price they will reconsider.
I can honestly say there have been atleast 4 games I have downloaded that I would have never looked twice at and once I downloaded them and played them I was impressed enough to go buy the game. That is his point and I also believe this happens more than most people think!
Things are getting better for all aspects of these issues! I feel soon we will be able to download full versions of games to try for set periods of time and then you can choose to buy it for a resonable price all online. Steam is the start. Why pay $50 for a box with a cd that you only need to install when you can play a game unlimited time for one month for $10! You may think why would anyone pay full price then. Because if you put alot of work into a game and build it with replay value you will get multiple buys, or if you don't get done with the game in time you would pay another $10 to finish it. Episode games are something else we will se more of. The first level and game cd are free. You then pay $5 for the next set of levels. How many games do you own that you have never finished? Why should you have to pay full price? What about subscription services like napster but related to developers. Say you pay $15 a month and anything a developer releases you can download and play. I would love to pay $15 a month for say a Halo membership and every month they release 1 new multiplayer map and a new campain. If they slack off you cancel your membership. Or $50 a month and all games are avail. This would be hard to set up at first but the more developers that jump on the wagon the more members! Could you imagine if only 5 percent of gamers did this and stopped buying packaged games. The revenue would be in the billions each month! That is how I see the future of gaming. You buy a PS 4 and then pay $50 month and all games that become avail you get to play. You would think thats alot every month but If you are a gamer I know you spend more time playing games than on the phone and you pay $50+ a month for that! Do most gamers buy a new $50 game every month? I would say no! The technology is there and more and more people are getting high speed internet so how long before games on demand becomes the norm?
Post by: Xombe on December 13, 2006, 10:29:00 PM
Do and think whatever you want on your own, but don't come on to our forums to explain to the world what you've pirated and why.
Closed.