Post by: Xbox-Scene on September 13, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
| From cnet.com.au: Quote
Read More: cnet.com.au Thanks to Burbs and SparcMX for the news/link. |
Post by: emko on September 13, 2006, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: jobler on September 13, 2006, 09:27:00 PM
QUOTE(emko @ Sep 14 2006, 04:28 AM) 
wow that sucks. good thing i live in canada
Congratulations. Now get the hell out of our commonwealth! You guys obviously can take care of yourselves.
Australia gets these laws put in place, then revoked, then put in place, then revoked again. We will probably see the end of this law before it is put in place...
Post by: DJ_L3ThAL on September 13, 2006, 09:33:00 PM
Post by: gasclown on September 13, 2006, 10:17:00 PM
good thing its just a draft eh?
Post by: Caldor on September 13, 2006, 10:22:00 PM
No more Slysoft Anydvd.
No more region free dvd players.
Post by: RiPpN-N-TrIppN on September 13, 2006, 10:33:00 PM
even if it does it wont be the first law ive broken
whats with Australia using Amercias laws any way
next thing we will seee is guns being sold at 7Eleven
i think we should stick to our own laws
Post by: jmnz on September 13, 2006, 10:42:00 PM
Post by: eDeus on September 13, 2006, 10:58:00 PM
Post by: dxj1973 on September 13, 2006, 11:01:00 PM
Post by: RiPpN-N-TrIppN on September 13, 2006, 11:03:00 PM
2 guys standing in the line to get food in jail
what did you do
oww i stabbed 5 ppl and got 4yrs
you
oww i modded a xbox and got 5yrs
ha
good luck
Post by: Morgue on September 13, 2006, 11:22:00 PM
Post by: Reese Kaine on September 13, 2006, 11:36:00 PM
Post by: 1nick9 on September 13, 2006, 11:40:00 PM
cheers
Post by: TSOPrano on September 13, 2006, 11:44:00 PM
Post by: RiPpN-N-TrIppN on September 13, 2006, 11:30:00 PM
no one cares about Canada
Post by: hammybunghole on September 14, 2006, 12:19:00 AM
Post by: shauno on September 14, 2006, 12:27:00 AM
Please johnny howard, get your mouth off Bushs' knob.... please?
Post by: [M] on September 14, 2006, 01:52:00 AM
Fuck!ng Free Trade Agreement, I knew those pricks would try to pull this sooner or later.
Maybe time to call in the ACCC.
Post by: TeonHarasymiv on September 14, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
QUOTE(hammybunghole @ Sep 14 2006, 07:26 AM)
Guess what they forgot about a firmware hack which can not be called a modchip so bring it on!
Sorry dude - read the article
QUOTE
"AUSFTA requires Australia to prohibit the use of devices and services to circumvent technological protection measures (TPM)".
I think you'll find that softmods fall under 'services'
Post by: flashfreak on September 14, 2006, 02:55:00 AM
QUOTE(Morgue @ Sep 14 2006, 03:53 PM)
We have a bunch of bloody monkeys running our country.
Theres an election coming up in november isn't there? Also, when i first read this, i thought u said there are too many monkeys in our country. I agree to what i thought u said. Too many gook kids here, asians are taking over our country.
QUOTE(davo123 @ Sep 14 2006, 04:34 PM)
last i checked nobody talked shit about AustraliaVery good comeback. We are a very quiet, neutral country. Leave us alone.
Post by: spiffyville on September 14, 2006, 02:55:00 AM
Post by: merlihin on September 14, 2006, 04:20:00 AM
Every other country in the world needs to get wise quick and not sign any free trade agreements with the US. The way it is going, we will have a world state soon. And it looks like America's rules are the ones being followed.
Post by: 0794 on September 14, 2006, 08:44:00 AM
Many in this thread are talking only about Xboxes, this would relate to any technological products. Obviously modified Xboxes probably won't be used by law enforcement agencies or libraries.
...and all of this country trash talkin...well it reminds me of "mamma" jokes...it's just sad...leave it alone
Post by: jha'dhur on September 14, 2006, 09:30:00 AM
DMCA regards modchips as illegal or any method used to circumvent copyright protection including copyright enfringement. It is just not enforced to that extent in the US
The next step:
American corporate overseers will soon connect the dots between modchips sales and terrorists, like they did with:
Boot Leg movies
Cable Descramblers
Viagra
Illicit Narcotics
I always find it interesting when government bends over backwards to legislate 5% of its population (console owners)
Post by: shakaru on September 14, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: throwingks on September 14, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
QUOTE(eDeus @ Sep 14 2006, 12:29 AM)
The law sounds too encompassing - xbox 1 + xbmc is now just as illegal as playing bootleg games?
Technically, it always has been. XBMC is compiled with XDK and the BIOS to run XBMC contains MS code.
Now, a cromwell BIOS and Linux on your box is legal.
At least in the U.S.A.
QUOTE(davo123 @ Sep 14 2006, 01:34 AM)
last i checked nobody talked shit about AustraliaWelcome to the forums.
Post by: gsharpshooter on September 14, 2006, 01:42:00 PM
Post by: gasclown on September 14, 2006, 03:41:00 PM
QUOTE(TSOPrano @ Sep 14 2006, 06:15 AM)
Last I checked nobody cared about Australia.
you'd care if we decided to stop winning your wars for ya....
Post by: Serious Sam on September 14, 2006, 04:54:00 PM
QUOTE(ramraida @ Sep 14 2006, 06:42 PM)
ok it's a new day and time to get my soapbox out again....
I would like to clarify to the american members and readers of this forum that it is not you, the american citizens, that ozzies are venting their anger at (or shouldn't be). It is the american heirachy, or whoever or whatever it is that actually controls that country, and is determined to control other countries, bit by bit, a little at a time with "allies", or all at once with "enemies" (not enough room here to list all of those).
Overturning our established law under the guise of free trade is just invasion by stealth, whether it's laws affecting this issue or any other.
Eh?and it's Aussies not Ozzies..
Post by: Tony42077 on September 14, 2006, 05:50:00 PM
QUOTE(gasclown @ Sep 14 2006, 10:48 PM)
you'd care if we decided to stop winning your wars for ya....
You're kidding right? Just because you were a small part of the multi-national force, don't go go thinking that you won anything for us because we put you on the front lines. Kind of like "Operation: Get behind the Darkies". And don't go blaming the U.S. for making it harder for Aussies to pirate copyrighted material. Whether you want to believe it or not, (in my opinion) a large portion of the modding community is in it just because they don't want to pay for games... this is illegal. In order to get favorable terms in the trade agreement, the AUS gov't agreed to enforce the anti-piracy laws. The problem is that they agreed to go word-for-word of the agreement in order to get the rest of the deals. The fact is that the U.S. sells more entertainment goods to AUS than vice-versa. If you want our copy-righted material then you must enforce our laws.
In terms of what this law could really do to you, think about it with my bad analogy. Think about a system modder as a kind bud grower/distributer. With a little research we could all be modder/growers, but most people are too lazy to do it themselves. When everyone hears of the modder/grower, they all want some. It's up to the smart modder/grower to distribute his services to the people he knows will not get him busted. Don't sell that bag/modded systems to that cops kid that lives down the street.
With a little knowledge/common sense every smart person will be fine... and who cares about the dumb people anyway?
(edit)oh yeah, the democrats
Post by: LordCrass on September 14, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
Every country that negotiated "free trade" with America has gotten screwed. Royally. And I'm not just referred to the stupid little things like this modchip stuff. We're talking epic-sized backstabbings that result in entire industries suffering and problems for the entire population. The US does not play by the rules that are laid out by free trade.
Check out this link for some more info: Free Trade When Convenient
Post by: littlestevie360 on September 14, 2006, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: Tony42077 on September 14, 2006, 07:33:00 PM
QUOTE(LordCrass @ Sep 15 2006, 02:05 AM)
AUSFTA? A Free Trade agreement with the United States of America?? If it's not too late, beg, plead, bargain, coerce, bribe, or threaten your government to NOT go into a "free trade" agreement with the U.S.
Every country that negotiated "free trade" with America has gotten screwed. Royally. And I'm not just referred to the stupid little things like this modchip stuff. We're talking epic-sized backstabbings that result in entire industries suffering and problems for the entire population. The US does not play by the rules that are laid out by free trade.
Check out this link for some more info: Free Trade When Convenient
You made up a new account for that load of BS. Why not use your original account? Afraid someone might read past posts and deem you uninformed? If you Canadians are so worried that you're getting screwed, then sell your lumber to someone else. It's not our fault that a bulk of your economy revolves around logging. We U.S. citizens would rather see a town in canada go bankrupt, before one in the U.S. ever would. A typical greedy businessman would buy the cheaper lumber to make his own profits go higher at the expense of his neighbor losing his job. The U.S. will level the playing field to keep jobs and profits in the U.S. rather than Canada. Your arguments will go a lot further if you quote an actual news site instead of a one-sided political banter website.
Who are you kidding, you don't give a shit about U.S. citizens, the same way we don't give a shit abou you.
Post by: OzMick on September 14, 2006, 07:42:00 PM
...
* access where a TPM damages a product, or where circumvention is necessary to repair a product.
"My DVD drive broke and was no longer under warranty. I needed to obtain an aftermarket drive with a custom firmware to continue using my console."
Post by: dokworm on September 14, 2006, 07:43:00 PM
QUOTE(gasclown @ Sep 14 2006, 10:48 PM)
you'd care if we decided to stop winning your wars for ya....
Name a war you guys have won lately, or even in the last 30 years...
Your current one has now killed more Americans than the attack that spawned it did, and it doesn't look like a winning proposition.
Post by: TSOPrano on September 14, 2006, 07:53:00 PM
QUOTE(gasclown @ Sep 14 2006, 10:48 PM)
you'd care if we decided to stop winning your wars for ya....
lol? I'm from Canada, and pretty much the only soldiers we have lost in Afghanistan are from the yanks. I actually have nothing against Australia. Also, if you are referring to Iraq, I think that war has come and gone.
Anyhow, wasn't there some ruling a while back where mod chip are ok in Canada? If so anyone got a link.
Post by: Caldor on September 14, 2006, 08:28:00 PM
QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 15 2006, 04:28 AM)
Technically, it always has been. XBMC is compiled with XDK and the BIOS to run XBMC contains MS code.
Now, a cromwell BIOS and Linux on your box is legal.
At least in the U.S.A.
Welcome to the forums.
Really? I would have thought with the DMCA and other anti reverse engineering law in the USA, that putting cromwell onto an XBOX is in fact illegal. You have to reverse engineer the security in the xbox to do so.
Post by: thehittmann on September 14, 2006, 08:31:00 PM
QUOTE
Users of modchipped videogame consoles could face fines of up to AU$6600 under new laws being put in place by the Australian Federal Government, a news alert from law firm Minter Ellison says. Those who distribute or offer modchipped devices could face fines of up to AU$60,500 and/or up to five years in jail.
It doesn't say any jail time for modding your own console. But yeap this sucks.
Post by: AddNtoX on September 14, 2006, 08:36:00 PM
Post by: AbRASiON on September 14, 2006, 09:32:00 PM
QUOTE(TSOPrano @ Sep 14 2006, 06:15 AM)
Last I checked nobody cared about Australia.
Except for the Australians you fucking dipshit.
Who for reference on population as a % bought more Xboxes than the USA and got more subscribers to live than the USA (based on %)
Also who bought more Xbox 1's than Japan a far bigger market
In conclusion shut the fuck up.
Post by: Tony42077 on September 14, 2006, 09:48:00 PM
QUOTE(Caldor @ Sep 15 2006, 03:41 AM)
I find this comment utterly distasteful. It's shameful.
To think, in our valued alliance with the USA, how many of our young men have been killed in action or permanently disabled in action, across not only Vietnam, but Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Your comment is appauling.
Make no mistake of the length, and depth of courage, Australian men and women have gone to in upholding the ideals that together in our alliance we see as important.
.... the sound of an imaginary violin playing... Do you need a tissue? Try and take my comment in the context of what I was responding to. He said that they (AUS) were winning all of our wars for us, inwhich I retorted. I don't know how you can't get so far out joint that you would call my comments distasteful and appauling. Although the U.S. is very thankful for Australia's help in all of the wars and conflicts you stated, I don't think that the AUS forces as a whole changed the outcomes. If you want to get technical the first 2 you stated (Vietnam and Korea) weren't U.S. wars. They were democracy vs. communism wars that every democracy should have joined in. It just always fell on the shoulders of the U.S. to bare the brunt of any serious threat to democracy as we know it.
Was there a draft in France to go to Vietnam?
Post by: Odb718 on September 15, 2006, 06:42:00 AM
BTW who the hell follows the law to the letter? It's virtually impossible.
Post by: gasclown on September 15, 2006, 10:24:00 AM
However, my comment was not without basis nor was it simply referring to recent events. Rather, i was talking about Australias' involvement in your previous equally ridiculous 'wars'. Facts and figures to prove my point?... i garantee you wont find them in your american history text books. But that doesnt stop it from being true. American introspection seems a spurious pastime reserved only for your academic intellectuals and revisionist historians. What a pity (for americans).
The queen is dead. Long live the... err... president?
Post by: urizha on September 15, 2006, 08:12:00 PM
Just wondering, we actually never use our Xbox for games, it just sits there and runs Media Centre (Dosn't even have any other programs on it except DVDx)
If I removed the DVD drive and just used it as a Media Centre (getting content over the network) still could this be classed as illegal (seeing as tho the drive has been removed and no copy protected games could be run)
Any thoughts?
Post by: bourke on September 15, 2006, 08:43:00 PM
http://www.ag.gov.au...A2571DF0021BCA3
I really think it's a case of 'clarifying' what is already implied - removing ambiguities. I.e. the crux of the legislation is fine (the 'vibe' if you will) - however the devil is in the detail.
The problem of the previous copyright law was not that it wasn't correct - the problem was that six (6) High Court judges and four (4) Federal Court judges could not agree what one particular crucial sentence meant!
Now how can citizens be expected to understand the written law if your ten best judges in the country cannot!
So my feelings are to clarify that:
1. If any device (device has always meant software as well as hardware) employs region coding _at all and in any form_ then it (the whole system) must be completely excluded from being covered by the law.
This would mean that all current games consoles except for the DS and PSP are not covered by the new laws - as all the rest employ some form of region coding for either games or for DVD movies.
2. Games console software must be classed a 'computer software' - making perfectly clear it is not classed as a movie.
3. Making personal backups of computer software for non-commercial purposes must be legal.
Thereby permitting the backup of your own legally purchased software and console games.
I really think that is all we need - and it seems to read that way already - we must just clarify these three important points.
Please have your say to the goverment.
Post by: neon on September 16, 2006, 06:37:00 AM
QUOTE(bourke @ Sep 16 2006, 02:50 AM)
The problem of the previous copyright law was not that it wasn't correct - the problem was that six (6) High Court [Australian] judges and four (4) Federal Court [Australian] judges could not agree what one particular crucial sentence meant!
Now how can citizens be expected to understand the written law if your ten best judges in the country cannot!
...with reference to 'your ten best judges' I'm guessing that you are not an Australian...perhaps an American? If in fact that is the case then we now need more like yourself to clarify our legal position
Post by: neon on September 16, 2006, 06:53:00 AM
Post by: bourke on September 16, 2006, 10:20:00 AM
E-mail:
copyrightlawbranch [at] ag.gov.au
Snail Mail:
Copyright Law Branch
Attorney-General's Department
Robert Garran Offices
National Circuit
BARTON ACT 2600
Also, just clarrifying that Sony PSP consoles are also not protected by the new laws as they include region coding in their UMD movies - only the Nintendo DS is totally region free.
Post by: bourke on September 16, 2006, 06:07:00 PM
QUOTE(neon @ Sep 17 2006, 08:37 AM)
so has Minter Ellison misinterpreted the proposed law?
Not entirely, they just did not factor in that all current games consoles currently employ region coding and that there is a note on this in the new draft legislation (below).
Subsection 10:
'Note: To avoid doubt, a device, product or component (including a computer program) that is solely designed to control market segmentation is not an access control technological protection measure.'
What quite a few legal experts have already questioned is how this particular note will hold up in court and secondly what exactly the word 'soley' means in the context of that sentence!
I.e. there is no dispute that Region Coding is designed SOLEY to control market segmentation (refer to Steven versus Sony, 2005)
A person knowlegeable in the technology industry can easily see that region coding is usually tightly coupled with other access controls. So in order circumvent region coding you will often have to circumvent many other access controls at the same time.
Therefore what is implied is that the word 'soley' applies to the region coding mechanism itself - and NOT that the sole access control in the device is region coding!
A subtle but very crucial difference.
Post by: neon on September 16, 2006, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: bourke on September 18, 2006, 01:59:00 AM
http://www.lawfont.c...-for-consumers/
Note my comments at the bottom!
Post by: Arch0n on September 21, 2006, 03:55:00 AM
QUOTE(bourke @ Sep 18 2006, 09:06 AM)
Guys, a very interesting legal discussion:
http://www.lawfont.c...-for-consumers/
Note my comments at the bottom!
that article wans't bad except the author takes a few stabs at this and that, guess work really; in particular in regards to region encoding. Burke's post actually asked the right question, "how much of TPM is region protection and can I "go through" the TPM to get to the region encoding which I am allowed to remove.
the Exposure draft (linked to on the ag.gov.au site posted ^) says:
QUOTE
19 Note: To avoid doubt, a device, product or component (including a
20 computer program) that is solely designed to control market
21 segmentation is not an access control technological protection
22 measure.
I take two things from this: my assertion that the author of LawFont was ranting a bit - IMHO, this means DVD players will now be region free or manufactures should expect wholesale modification without statutory recourse.
The second is that, like was said somewhere above, my gut feeling is that violating TPM to get to region protection is not on, as clearly the TPM was not solely for that protection. A lot depends on that word.
Interestingly, I find hope here:
QUOTE
Exceptioninteroperability
2 (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to the person if:
3 (a) the person circumvents the access control technological
4 protection measure to enable the person to do an act; and
5 (b ) the doing of the act:
6 (i) is in relation to a copy of a computer program (the
7 original program) that is not an infringing copy; and
8 (ii) is not an infringement of the copyright in the original
9 program; and
10 (iii) is for the sole purpose of obtaining information
11 necessary to achieve interoperability of an
12 independently created computer program with the
13 original program or any other program; and
14 © the information is not readily available to the person from
15 another source when the act is done.
Of course there's holes in the argument. I'm not dealing with an infringement free copy of the original program, eg, with cromwell I have ignored it completely but with say executer, i've got and infringing derived work in place instead.
Secondly, the information I gained to achieve interoperability isn't used in my program for compatabiliuty, it is used by the circumvention device, which remains in place. Don't really know where that leaves the argument
Perhap the best bet now is to submit comments by Sep 25th for the "Further review of exceptions in particular supporting making back-up copies of computer programs. If this is allowed and the same device in place will execute the backup then we all win.
Details of the process are here:
http://www.ag.gov.au...-September_2006
In the mean time, I've put the following in my signature for all out going mail I get in replies to repairs and mods:
QUOTE
* IMPORTANT *
Are you aware of the introduction of amendments to Australian Copyright
Law in order to comply with "obligations" under the Australian-US Free
Trade Agreement?
http://www.ag.gov.au...A2571DF0021BCA3
Are you aware that these Amendments will *criminalise* the possession of a
modified console (essentially a toy!), regardless of whether you are
playing backed up games, using free media player software, or running a
free operating system, eg Linux and not even playing games?
The Australian government is capitulating by proxy to the machinations of
corporations such as the RIAA, MPAA and Disney, who push the US Digital
Millennium Copyright Act for their own agenda from behind the scenes. See:
"Copyright and the Mouse: How Disney's Mickey Mouse Changed the World"
http://www.digitaljo...?articleID=4031
* WHAT CAN YOU DO? *
Argue for the exception to the reforms allowing TPMs to be circumvented in order to make backups of software. Please read the following and note the strict procedure:
http://www.ag.gov.au...-September_2006
Ask for provisions for TPM circumvention in regards to reverse engineering, device adaption and software backups or express your concern at having foreign powers and the bodies behind them
dictating Australian Law!
Write/email your federal member of parliament:
http://www.aph.gov.a...rs/mi-elctr.asp
Write/email your state senators:
http://www.aph.gov.a....asp?sort=state
Ask the ACCC to 'lobby' on behalf of Australian Consumers for full control
of devices they buy - including modification which may affect TPMs:
http://www.accc.gov....r...&type=Other
or make an anonymous call on: 1300 302 502
Thanks, from all members of the modding/hobbyist community in Australia!
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on September 21, 2006, 05:53:00 AM
QUOTE(b2kmods @ Sep 19 2006, 11:53 PM)
very nice post Bourke... for anyone wanting to learn more about these new laws, read that article...
alot of shops like myself will defenitely have to close down eventually thanks to this new law, the scene will defenitely go underground.. expect higher mod prices, fly by night modders, and far more backyard modders... in the end consumers will lose out, and the laws will do nothing but force the scene underground..
sadly the law has plenty of holes, there is opportunity for companies like Sony or Microsoft to abuse the power they have been given...
very very dissapointing really, but what are we meant to do when we have a little bitch as our prime minister...
I am suprised you guys can even open up shops with one of its sole purpose being chipping consoles. Or to even chip consoles out in open.
We had a guy in my city selling mods at the flea market, making a killing until the authorities got a sniff of what was going on as a result of his popularity.
Well, they threw him under the jail, criminal copyright.
Just sounds like you are (legally) squaring up with the americans.
Post by: b2kmods on October 23, 2006, 07:12:00 PM
i believe the bill is only being re-written to exclude book publishing ??? dont quite get this one but thats what one site has reported.. is this the information others are getting??
http://www.ag.gov.au...opyright_Regime
this site reports that "copying and converting cds and dvds" wil be easier under the new law, but its all propaganda... in fact the local paper "the West Australian" even reported this fact but failed to mention breaking TPMs would to put you inline with jail time.. either this was a mistake & a total lack of understanding of the new law or it was biased reporting... id put my money on the later conclusion..
phatirish bastard things are different here. i only opened a store because the law was on modders side, and why not, what we do is no different to owning a PVR, a CD burner, or a copy of Nero... one company here in Perth even started franchising at one stage having around 5-6 stores..