Print Page - What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?

Off Topic Forums => General Chat => Politics, News and Religion => Topic started by: prominator on April 11, 2006, 01:27:00 AM

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: prominator on April 11, 2006, 01:27:00 AM

i would like to know how many people care about Pro-Immigrant March
or how it affects you

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 11, 2006, 12:13:00 PM

Yeah I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but I say I'm against the Immigration march. Ours just happened in Phoenix, AZ. I've been watching the news on all channels possible. What I think is that these Illegal immigrants don't deserve to have a voice in the US, let alone our state of AZ. They crossed our boarders illegally and now they're demanding that thier voice be heard and that they not pass this bill. They're also trying to get people who can legally vote, to vote against this bill, which I hope they won't listen.

My parents are immigrants themselves, but they were legal immigrants and have done it the hard way just like all the other legal immigrants in this country. What does that mean for them? It's an insult that these illegals get a chance to voice their opinion and have the power to change laws through sheer mass alone, even if they can't vote.

I understand that a lot of you out there aren't from Arizona and can't comprehend how our situation is out here. But just know that in states such as NM, CA and TX, they have all reinforced their borders and most of the illegal immigrants are pouring in through the AZ border. More than 60% of our population in the largest cities in Phoenix, and Glendale, are made up of Hispanics, while the rest are a mix of the other races.

Because of this influx of illegal immigrants, it has directly affected our quality of life. Why hire an Asian such as myself, when the population is the majority of Hispanics, it would be more beneficial to hire new generation Hispanics that can speak both English AND Spanish. Why hire an Asian such as myself, when people like me have the skills, but are overlooked because we don't know a language that we're not supposed to or required to know, like English?

The problem runs very deep, and like I said, most of you aren't from AZ so it would take A LOT to understand unless you were living here. But just know that the government are aware of this problem now, and their issues are to pass this bill, without causing these mass movements to turn out into violent riots which could destroy the cities that we live in. I just hope that this bill gets passed, and that these illegals understand why this is going on and that they have no rights whatsoever because they are not citizens.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 11, 2006, 02:52:00 PM

^agreed... my wife is english and it took a hell of a lot to get her just to be a resident, and shes a dual major college grad looking to teach (something this stupid country needs desperatly)... just because you can walk across a border shouldnt mean that you have an easier time immigrating to this country than from EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 11, 2006, 03:25:00 PM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 11 2006, 02:33 AM)

I have no problem with political immigrants but economic immigrants are taking away jobs that could go to people who are on benefits. When the fluff hits the fan these guys arn't gonna stick around and help rebuild your country, they will be off to greener pastures. Leaving behind a country where the low income workers rely on state benefit for there main source of income.

There's plenty of farmworking jobs to go around, but people on financial assistance rather sit on their asses and get paid for it instead of performing backbreaking labor like these immigrants. The vast majority of these immigrants are doing farmwork, gardening, and contstruction. Now, how can you sit there and regurgitate the same BS that previous generations have spewed about immigrants in this country.

Let us not forget the bracero program that brought these immigrants to the U.S. specifically to work in the fields since the legal U.S. citizens did not want to dirty their hands on that type of labor intensive work. This nation was built on the blood, sweat, and tears of immigrants and we continue to rely on the immigrant workforce to place food on our tables. Despite what immigrants have done, people still continue to whine and say they're taking away jobs...

Tell them to go back to their country and guess what... that's exactly what they're doing since California, Arizona, and New Mexico were originally part of Mexico.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 11 2006, 02:33 AM)

When the fluff hits the fan these guys arn't gonna stick around and help rebuild your country, they will be off to greener pastures. Leaving behind a country where the low income workers rely on state benefit for there main source of income.

Hmmm.... Do some research on the role of Mexicans in the military. You'll find some astonishing information. A disproportionately large number of Mexicans served in the U.S. military and died for a country that didn't even want them here. When times got rough, these "illegal immigrants" were on the front lines with the rest of the U.S. force and died defending our country. What can be said about a group of people who made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of their neighbors?

With that said, I can tell you I neither agree nor disagree with the marches going on around the U.S. Just like U.S. citizens, they're exercising their rights to free speech in an effort to have their voices heard. Unfortunately, their efforts usually fall upon deaf ears. The only way they will truly be heard is through the power of voting. Electing officials who sympathize with them AND have power to make change is what the politics are all about. People can scream and shout all they want, but if they don't vote... all is truly lost.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 11, 2006, 06:03:00 PM

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 03:59 PM)

Actually, it seems to be the opposite. I have nothing against immigrants, but blaming everything on mexicans is just a cop out.

N*gras are lazy, S**s work to hard. Give me a break. I thinks coloreds should tell noncoloreds to "eat a cack". Mind your own elfing house.

I thought negroes complained a f***ing lot.

The "white" boy in the "white" house seems to be the one ruining the country.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 11, 2006, 06:47:00 PM

did you mean to quote me? i said abs nothing against, nor was i blaming, anyone...

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 11, 2006, 07:59:00 PM

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 07:54 PM)

did you mean to quote me? i said abs nothing against, nor was i blaming, anyone...

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

Yes, I meant to quote you, not to jump your shit but pointing out that your wife is British and her difficulties of gaining citizenship in conjunction with a mexican coming to this country.

I REALLY dont believe in immigration, not that the US is not big enough for those that want to come but it is politicized.

A wealthy Arab/(Insert any other Oil Country) can come here because he/she is buddy buddy with Dubya. While his cousins plot to kill Americans on their vacations here.

You are missing the bigger picture.

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 07:54 PM)

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

A Cack for a Cack

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 11, 2006, 09:32:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 11 2006, 09:06 PM)

i missing the bigger picture? youre missinterpreting whatever picture youre seeing.. care to elaborate as to who i was blaming? it certainly wasnt mexicans... if you actually read and comprehended the post it was the US immigration policy as a whole: if youre from another country other than mexico youve got to prove you have value over here, which certainly isnt what this country was built upon... so stick to it one way or the other...

the US is a fucked up country thats only seems to be getting worse, declaring illegals felons or kicking them out wont do any good and is a huge scapegoat for social ills... medical help? what about help for a huge population of actual citizens who arent poor enough or old enough for medicare/caid? should they just be fucked because they fall into a certain income bracket?

most people who dont believe in immigration and naively think that illegals are stealing jobs/are a huge drain on society(in comparison with many other ills), also naively think that the US is the end all be all greatest nation on earth: and if you think that, youre too far gone to be bothered with anyway...

and youre colored/noncolored comment speaks volumes about your preconcieved notions as its automatically an 'us vs them' mentality no mater which side youre on...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 12, 2006, 05:02:00 AM

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 10:39 PM)

Didn't say you were blaming anyone.

I just feel Brits, Spains,Africans, Serbs CANADIANS, should all stay the fuck out until we get our shit together.

The LOU DOBBS, welfare state mentallity is just simply "racist".

That same senntiment has been used with every immigrant group from Italians, "Jews", Irish, Chineses, Africans, and now mexicans.

It is like a fill in the "fucker" you hate form.

I think you only demonstrate your low Inteligent Qoutant when you surrender yourself to such instituitionailzed demagogary.

QUOTE

For a start illegals don't have to go through various security checks, in theory you could have bin laden conducting his campain of terror in your back yard while protesting that he/she should be allowed to work and live in your country.

When illegals are given citizenship they will wise up to the benefit state and they will milk it for all it's worth. I'm not speaking hypothetically I see what they get off the welfare state on a daily basis. In alot of cases they get more benefits and perks than someone who has lived and worked here all of there life. That is wrong IMO and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

The fact is illegals do take low income jobs away from our citizens and legal immigrants, this is partly our fault for allowing people to live a comfortable life on the welfare state. If able citizens had to work partly or mostly for there benefit we would not need half of the economic illegals to fill in the gaps.

Country's such as ours will always need a influx of foreign workers at some point but the question you gotta ask yourself is. Would you prefer a nation full of illegals or would you prefer immigrants that have gone through the various security checks before they are allowed to stay in your country?

I'm all for immigrants living and working in my country but when I hire someone I never take the person at face value untill I have done a little research on that person. If you don't look into the back ground, work history of someone you could in theory be hiring anyone from a terrorist to peodophile.

The all so typical scare "white" folks tactic.

1) Funny all the terroists caught at the border have been at the CANADIAN border.

2) Given that going from illegal to legal status comprises taking a test and paying a processing fee and VOILA your an american. (no lie detectors, background checks or physic probe) Whats your point.
I work with "new" americans that hold security clearances and national security positions that are straight off the boat. Those are they guys you should worry about.

3) All our pedhofilles are home grown noe need to import any.

P.S.
@Arvadeen
Just how much of your hard earned tax money should go to creating this large "Immigrant Checker" beaurocracy.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on April 12, 2006, 12:05:00 PM

QUOTE

If the US Government spent less time researching, developing mini nukes that will never be used they might be able to put that money to use and hire more body's to patrol your borders.

I hate this statement.....
I really hate this statement....
Why?

You have absolutely no real idea how useful current military technology is going to be in future military conflicts. Unless you have suddenly gained insight into the future. We should never abandon research, of any type. Research makes humanity better in the end, and it fuels our economy, and it gives the human race some smug satisfaction when people ask us how we are any different from other animals.

What if we did invest the money to hire enoguh people to constantly stand shoulder-to-shoulder along all of our national borders? Well...then I guess the illegals would stop coming through the land borders. They would all jump on boats and start coming into our vast coastline. Our vast, almost impossible to defend coastline. So now we have hired millions of people to constantly stand vigil at our borders, while the immigrants either dig tunnels or take boats. NOT VERY HELPFUL.

Let me explain it this way....any time that you see a solution that seems painfully simple...your normally wrong.
Killing Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden seem like easy ways to crush terrorism. I will let you watch the news, but it looks like removing Saddam didnt have a "great" result.

---jha'dhur

I actually agree with you on some points....unfortunately....you replied to 2 different people in the same comment.
gkskate wasnt the one opining about the welfare state
Avarden was the one with the "welfare state" comments....

QUOTE

I just feel Brits, Spains,Africans, Serbs CANADIANS, should all stay the fuck out until we get our shit together.

I think your completely wrong...and let me explain why....

Several smaller countries have dealt with terrorism recently. Spain, france, and Great Britian. They have easier borders to control, and less diverse populations(racial profiling works a lil better in England). Yet they cannot stop terrorism. Why? They dont have their shit together?

These other countries illustrate an important point....these terrorists are committed. They know what they are doing, they will find a way in....

it is incredibly naive to believe that we can "stop" them....if we cannot stop them from entering the country...then it is ridiculous to impede the regular travel of everyone else when we will not be successful in stopping terrorists....

We are entering a global economy...open borders are incredibly helpful, and if you take this isolationist stance....we are going to wind up left behind

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 12, 2006, 01:20:00 PM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 02:56 AM)

Do some research buddy. The majority of the US population on welfare (and other benefits) are largely white. Why, because they'd rather sit on their asses and collect welfare instead of working. Mexicans, on the other hand are well known for being hard workers and it shows.

We've had tons of illegal immigrants in this country... and tons of them have eventually acquired citizenship. What happened after that? They became an integral part of the U.S., they've paid their share of taxes, and they continue to help the economy.

Do you really believe they become citizens, then jump on the welfare system? If so, take a very close look at yourself and your ethnocentrism because you obviously do not see the bigger picture. Spend some time researching and see for yourself.

How do I know this information? Not only do I have a minor in Chicano Studies, but I'm also a former president of a rather large Chicano student organization. Believe me... I've definitely done my homework when it comes to immigration issues.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 07:28 AM)

@jha'dhur
We have enough problems with our native, immigrant population as it is with out adding more numbers into the equation.

Adding More numbers? At issue is whether we should allow those illegal immigrants who are CURRENTLY RESIDING IN THE US to become legal citizens. This has absolutely nothing to do with bringing more immigrants into the country. We're not "adding more numbers into the equation."

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 12, 2006, 04:09:00 PM

You know what, making Illegals that are here NOW, legal citizens is like a slap in the face to other people that do want to get in, and some people who never can (but have the money or whatever to make the move) just because they jumped the border and suddenly amassing a huge crowd in order to win over politicians thru mass alone. They don't even have US/Citizenship rights for gods sake. It's their numbers alone that will push us into making a decision.

I do hope they pass the bill, but I hope that they can come to some sort of conclusion to those that are already here. Something along the lines of allowing them a chance to become citizen just like how every other person that came here legally had to do when they applied for citizenship.

And to reply to a post above about Mexicans serving in the US Military, to serve in the Military you have to be a US citizen. Now I can't speak for the entire race and say who's family came from a legit background or not, nevertheless, they are LEGAL citizens in service for our country. I have no qualms about that. But something has to be done about immigration because its' getting out of hand. Eventually all of Southern US population will be majority of Mexicans due to illegal immigration.

It's not just because AZ, CA and such were once part of Mexico, but do some research on population in each respective cities and you'll see a huge increase due to illegal immigration. While some states have tightened security, ours are only starting to because it IS out of hand.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 12, 2006, 04:20:00 PM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

The scare tactic is very real in todays world, times have changed and we must change with them. Im not saying we should give up our freedoms if a politician shouts terrorism Im saying we should be careful who we allow into our countrys. We have enough problems with our native, immigrant population as it is with out adding more numbers into the equation.

Maybe, in your world attacking a country whose leader didnt even control the entire country but was the Abab Hitler makes sense. How exactly was Saddam supposed to get his "imaginary" nuke over here. RUSSIA still is the greatest threat to US security.

But N. Korea posseses intercontinental balistic missle and nuclear weapons.

Iran is enriching Uranium to make bombs and possesses a significant missle program.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

@jha'dhur
If I visit the US I need to provide documents, finger prints, and asked 101 questions. I guess Id have to go through a similair process if I was to apply for citizenship so why you think its acceptable for illegals to by pass all of these measures is beyond me.

Maybe every single american should be fingerprinted and submit DNA. Look at the homeland security SOB/pedophille with access to sensitive information.
The thing is the beuarocracy you suggest wouldnt deter terroists.

Would this have stopped McVeigh?

Would this have stopped 9/11?

What about student visa's.

As far as I know your wife could be a terroist.

Should all foreign nationals submit to a federal anal probe?

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

If the US Government spent less time researching, developing mini nukes that will never be used they might be able to put that money to use and hire more body's to patrol your borders.

I would think if your governmennt wasnt spending 5-9 billion/month in Iraq. The american qualtiy of life would be better for all.

P.S. Its not the Mexicans that are driving down wages its the Republican/Business Party that is bought and sold to special interest that HAS NOT RAISED MIN WAGE IN 10 YEARS.

But they still dont miss a vote to raise their salaries.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 12, 2006, 04:30:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 12 2006, 03:16 PM)

And to reply to a post above about Mexicans serving in the US Military, to serve in the Military you have to be a US citizen.

RESEARCH!

Do you think I'm referring to current military policy? NO.

In previous major world wars, the US asked for help from illegal immigrants. In exchange for helping defend our country, the U.S. promised to aid them in becoming legal residents. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the immigrants who accepted this offer died in combat.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: chorizo1 on April 12, 2006, 05:27:00 PM

look http://immigration.a...tCitizenIss.htm

it was allowed, and there ARE non-citizens in the Military. One from my area who was in the military trying to get a citizenship was one of the first Killed in Iraq.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 12, 2006, 06:16:00 PM

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 12 2006, 05:37 PM)

You dont have to be a US citizen to be a foot soldier, certain positions with elevated security clearance require US citizenship but to carry a rifle in Iraq all you need are flat feet.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 12, 2006, 06:55:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 12 2006, 07:23 PM)

You dont have to be a US citizen to be a foot soldier, certain positions with elevated security clearance require US citizenship but to carry a rifle in Iraq all you need are flat feet.

actually you can be rejected from service for having flat feet, i was (well, the heart murmur helped too)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 13, 2006, 12:02:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 12:01 AM)

Didnt the minimum wage increase only a couple of years ago?

its been raised 3 times in the last 5-6 years in IL, last one went into effect jan 05 i believe

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 13, 2006, 10:41:00 AM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 12 2006, 04:16 PM)

I assume that 'Kira Yamoto' is not your real name.

Because I would find it quite hypocritial for a Japanese American to interpret and administer immigration policy based upon their transgressions (The Hawaii Thing).

Furthermore, our willingness as a society to accept foreign nationals from countries that we were at war with in the past 60 years should be transcribed unto our neighbors to the south.

My grandfather tried very hard to make the Japanese, Italians and Germans a footnote in a museum exhibit. And now you go to parts of america and thats all that live there.

Should Mexican Americans be any different?

P.S.

QUOTE

An illegal does not have to pay tax, national insurance or council tax. Therefore he/she can charge a cheaper rate than the natives. This has got nothing to do with Mexicans working harder than whites its down to the fact that these guys are cheaper to hire.

How can you work in the US and pay US taxes sounds more like a Republican than an illegal.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 12:58:00 PM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 13 2006, 09:31 AM)

When they buy something at the store, they're charged for taxes just like anyone else.
More often than not, if they get sick... they don't visit hospitals or doctors offices for fear of deportation so the expense of healthcare isn't an issue.

QUOTE

This has got nothing to do with "Mexicans" working harder than whites it's down to the fact that these guys are cheaper to hire.

These "Mexicans" are the only people willing to do all this tough labor so NO, it doesn't come down to the fact these guys are cheaper to hire. I don't see any white people working in the fields, do you?

In addition to the hard labor, they often have to deal with constant abuse from supervisors and employers. If they complain, the employer simply makes a phone call & the're magically deported. It's even worse for women since they often deal with sexual harassment and can't do anything about it for the reasons stated in my last sentence.

I've attended numerous local, state, and national conferences and have personally met with many farmworkers and have heard their horror stories so you cannot tell me otherwise. I've also worked with the United Farmworkers in their efforts to unionize and help these individuals.

I remember several years back we were helping workers at Guy Chaddock (a furniture building company) unionize. After a successful vote, the company refused to negotiate and eventually decided to close down their local factory instead of dealing with an employee union. Why? Because they refused to pay higher wages, refused to offer safety training for employees, and worst of all we were told they refused to strike any deals with "Mexicans."

Here's a similar case:

QUOTE

The UFW dealt with mushroom, nursery and furniture workers in Fall 2001. The UFW has been trying to negotiate an agreement with the Ventura, California plant of mushroom grower Pictsweet since January 2000. According to the UFW, Pictsweet wants "voluntary union membership," that is, workers would not have to join the UFW to work at Pictsweet.
Pictsweet in October 2001 announced that it was closing its 314-employee Salem, Oregon plant, which was the target of boycotting sponsored by Pineros y Campesinos Unidos del Noreste (PCUN). Pictsweet, owned by Tennessee-based United Foods, cited cheaper imports from Canada.

Just like the Guy Chaddock issue, they chose to close down the plant rather than deal with the UFW. Cheaper imports from Canada was a load of crap since the company only closed down one plant where a union was very likely to happen. All other plants owned by United Foods are still in operation.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 13, 2006, 01:54:00 PM

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 13 2006, 01:09 AM)

its been raised 3 times in the last 5-6 years in IL, last one went into effect jan 05 i believe

thats state, federal is STILL at $5.15, which is a fucking crime... and id wager a majority of the red states follow federal...

*well what do you know? compare this:
IPB Image

Green : States with minimum wage rates higher than the Federal
Blue : States with minimum wage rates the same as the Federal
Red : States with minimum wage rates lower than the Federal
Yellow : States with no minimum wage law

with this:
IPB Image

fucking republicans...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: buttface96 on April 13, 2006, 02:43:00 PM

I'm for the bill for many reasons,

I live in california, probably the state with the most illegal immigrants. The main thing i can't stand is how ignorant most of them are. I'm sure you guys prolly saw all the crap in LA, the protests, the walk outs, etc. Most of the people have no idea what they are protesting. I saw several people holding signs such as "Fuck the terminator," and send the white people back the europe (kinda funny) but mainly what does arnold have to do with any of it? its a federal bill. Fuck if your gonna protest something, atleast know what the fuck your protesting

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans, and cracking down on people who snuck in here illegaly. I might sound racist, but thats how i feel

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 02:55:00 PM

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Apr 13 2006, 01:50 PM)

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans....

It doesn't open up any new jobs for americans. Just like the protesters you observed... you don't know what you're talking about either.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: chorizo1 on April 13, 2006, 03:01:00 PM

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Apr 13 2006, 03:50 PM)

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans,

oh ya, I can see them all lining up to work all day in the fields, or getting mistreated at restaurants.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 13, 2006, 03:39:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 03:46 PM)

our bad.....

but quickly...isnt the argument against raising the minimum wage that increased minimum wages are directly followed by inflation? In other words...if it becomes more expensive to keep minimum wage employees...then higher waged employees will demand higher pay as well(since they could just go take a minimum wage job that is probably easier). You then have an increase cost of employement...which means an increased price of goods and services...this devalues the dollar...and causes inflation...

minimum wage jobs are not easy, and everyone should have to work at least on in their life: if you havent, then youve got no room to talk(you in general, not puck specifically)... adjusted for inflation, the current federal minimum is LESS than what min wage workers made in 1968, and even then it was under the poverty line... that theory is a right winger brain trap: is it better that a huge proportion of the population lives in squalor so others can be a tiny bit better off than they were? naive cons would say "of course, they should 'work harder'", showing their ignorance... land of opportunity? fucking whatever... yeah get that entry level min wage job, work your way up to a $.25 raise for assistant manager, then $1 more for manager and in 20+ years you might have enough saved up after all that time with a poor quality of life to get your own franchise of the bullshit company youve apparently devoted your life to so some old money jackass can buy a royce for their 'entitled' daughter for her sweet 16... FUCK THAT

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 03:41:00 PM

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 13 2006, 10:02 PM)

It doesn't open up any new jobs for americans. Just like the protesters you observed... you don't know what you're talking about either.

It sure would open up more opportunities for local Americans. What state do you live in? Because you seem like you do not know the kind of employment situation we are in right now if you live in a state in which the bill is designed to help.

Dude, I've gotten turned away from government positions and banking centers because some random person could speak Spanish yet had no skills such as I did. I've been to said government locations and the service is terrible, I was even accused of lying once and almost did not get AHCCCS. She didnt even know what the word Invest was.

That is the sad fact down here. If you're Hispanic, you're prioritized over anyone else just because you speak a language. That's simply not fair because most of the volume of people down here are illegal, companies are beefing up their Spanish speaking staff because of the influx of Spanish speaking people who otherwise wouldnt be here if they didn't hop the border.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 04:14:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:48 PM)

Dude, I've gotten turned away from government positions and banking centers because some random person could speak Spanish yet had no skills such as I did. I've been to said government locations and the service is terrible, I was even accused of lying once and almost did not get AHCCCS. She didnt even know what the word Invest was.

I believe it is possible that you might be exaggerating just a little bit.
LOL

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:48 PM)

That is the sad fact down here. If you're Hispanic, you're prioritized over anyone else just because you speak a language. That's simply not fair because most of the volume of people down here are illegal, companies are beefing up their Spanish speaking staff because of the influx of Spanish speaking people who otherwise wouldnt be here if they didn't hop the border.

REALLY now....

How about you go learn spanish and stop your whining you sound like a pathetic N***A.

Americans are becoming dumb and dumber each generation.

Survival of the fittest.

NWO BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 04:26:00 PM

Exactly.

I learned english... why can't you learn spanish?
If your surroundings require you to adapt, then do it.
Don't just whine about losing job opportunities because you're not bilingual. If you would take the time to learn the language, then you wouldn't be in your situation. Instead of solving the problem, you're just sitting there complaining about a race of people. Stop being so ethnocentric.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 04:28:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 13 2006, 11:21 PM)

I believe it is possible that you might be exaggerating just a little bit.
LOL
REALLY now....

How about you go learn spanish and stop your whining you sound like a pathetic N***A.

Americans are becoming dumb and dumber each generation.

Survival of the fittest.

NWO BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

I'm in the United States of F'in America, I shouldnt HAVE to learn Spanish to cater to illegals. FUCK THAT. Don't go tell me to learn Spanish just because these people hopped the border and practically took over Glendale and Phoenix. Why don't YOU learn spanish, wait, maybe you already know spanish because you're a hispanic yourself.

What needs to happen is that they need to learn English, which is the standard language in the US. Learning a language is NOT easy and takes A LOT of time and money. Which is probably why a lot of the immigrants have not learned English and a lot of us who are more educated have not learned Spanish. But English is a requirement, so don't go tell me to learn Spanish because I shouldnt have to.

edit:

It sounds like the both of you are hispanic of origin and already know the language. To you, Spanish is the easiest thing in the world, and that you could just go out get some books and bam you know Spanish, which is simply not true. Language doesnt come easy for a lot of people including English. Theres a lot of people out there in the international community that finds English to be the hardest language they've ever encountered.

You can't just simply tell somebody to go learn a language like learning how to ride a bike. You just can't.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 04:44:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 05:35 PM)

THE United States of F'in America ARMY is hiring. You should give em a call.

I am not of Hipanic descent but if it makes you feel better to think I am, go right ahead. If tt will promote a more colorful dialouge.

P.S.

I speak english and french...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 04:57:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 03:35 PM)

Are you too stupid to realize you're in a state that was once part of Mexico? Do you also realize that not all "hispanics" crossed the border? We were already here when these territories became part of U.S. (Under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo). English is not the official language of the U.S. Although people have attempted to pass a bill to declare it so (but failed).

All you've done here is shown your true colors as a racist bastard. You see everything through the eyes of your own race and fail to acknowledge the hard work of any other race and/or culture.

QUOTE

To you, Spanish is the easiest thing in the world, and that you could just go out get some books and bam you know Spanish,

There's something called school. Pay a visit there sometime and maybe you can enroll in some spanish classes (like I did in high school AND college).

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 05:15:00 PM

We were already here

You've shown yourself to be hispanic, thus, biased in everything I say. The fact that you ignore that I'm from an immigrant family and that you also ignore the fact that Arizona being a part of Mexico is not taught in US High Schools or Junior High Schools because we're taught US History, as in, how our country got started.

English is not the official language of the U.S.

But it's the most widely spoken and is one requirement if you want to work a job that pays much higher than minimum wage. Thus why English is a requirement to learn if you want to live in the US. Just like how you need to learn Japanese if you want to survive in Japan, or French if you want to survive in France.

All you've done here is shown your true colors as a racist bastard.

Being racist means that I discout the merits of a race as a whole and not the merits of the individual. Where did I discount the merits of a race as a whole, I'd like you to point out one of my posts and give me a detailed explaination supporting this fact.

You are only calling me racist because you're Hispanic yourself and everything I say is basically Heresy because I'm not agreeing with you.

http://dictionary.re...search?q=racist

It seems like I'm bitching, but do I not have the right? Does hundreds of thousands out there not have the right in which we will take action when we go and vote? Theres a reason why this is brought up. And guess what, its because of people bitching. But the government is seeing how severe it is becoming and finally doing something about it.

There's something called school. Pay a visit there sometime and maybe you can enroll in some spanish classes (like I did in high school AND college).

It's called money. Maybe you don't have bills to pay and babies to take care of but I do. There's something else called time. Maybe you have it to sit there and play videogames and such, but I don't. Before you go and try to debunk that, I'll save you the time. You can't. You just can't tell somebody to go and do something like its the easiest thing in the world because you do not live that persons life.

I can easily say that you're stupid for ignoring the hard facts of life, and that you labelled me stupid because I didn't know your country's history due to the American Schooling system and what it teaches. I can just as easily call you stupid because you didn't look up the word racist to find out what racist really means.

I really don't have a problem with any race in our community. I live in this community and you don't, as such, I'm entitled to my opinion because of my experience here. All you're doing is sitting there and giving me what you think, is the answer to all my problems and any problems anyone else might encounter here. Like its as easy as riding a bike. I know your kind of people and I always find that people like you end up being complete jackasses, ignorant fucks, and smart mouthed wanna be knowitalls that really doesnt know wtf theyre talking about in the end.

fail to acknowledge the hard work of any other race and/or culture.

Oh yeah? Since when was the topic brought up? Since when did I have to acknowledge it? I know full well that immigrants have been the backbone of the US, and not only the immigrants, but the locals as well. Did you forget that my family are immigrants as well? Did you forget that they are hard working people in which you speak of?

I'll acknowledge when its time to acknowledge. This isnt the current topic here and because you didnt see me acknowledge the hard work of a group of people does not mean I'm racist. This kind of thinking would make anybody a racist. So you think our President and the ones before him are huh?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 13, 2006, 05:19:00 PM

@puck: im from corpus... how would being able to speak french or vietnamese affect anything? i never met any french or vietnamese during my 18+ years in the area...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 05:35:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:22 PM)

You're such a retard. Here's a little backgrouond for you. You can't say I'm biased towards one specific race.

Growing up, I was best friends with a puerto rican. I adapted their slang and ate their food (still do).
While in college, I also made friends with a couple people from Guatemala and a few from El Salvador. Great people and again, I picked up some of their slang and did my best to understand their cultural differences.
During this time, I also dated a filipina. I learned to speak tagalog (took about 3 months by reading several books in my spare time and interacting with her family). Eventually, after college, I married a "white" woman. She's of Irish & german descent so I've been studying and learnng pieces of their cultures as well. I currently work for a company who's primary customers are Mexican, Arab, and Indian. Guess what I'm doing now? I'm learning from my experiences.

2 years ago, my wife gave birth to my son. Guess what's gonna happen here? We're gonna do our best to teach him spanish, english and possibly german. Learning and understanding other cultures is a very important part today's society. If you choose not to learn another language, that's your own fault... but don't knock other races/cultures because you can't speak their language.

Don't be so quick to say that because I'm Mexican, I dont' make any efforts to understand other cultures because it seems like that's what you're doing.

Oh, by the way... I live in California so there's more Mexicans here than where you live.
Bakersfield, Califáztlan to be exact.

If you would have bothered to take a look at my profile (look under the jumping mouse), you'd already know where I'm from.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 05:37:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 07:22 PM)

We were already here

You've shown yourself to be hispanic, thus, biased in everything I say. The fact that you ignore that I'm an immigrant and that you also ignore the fact that Arizona being a part of Mexico is not taught in US High Schools or Junior High Schools because we're taught US History, as in, how our country got started.

English is not the official language of the U.S.

But it's the most widely spoken and is one requirement if you want to work a job that pays much higher than minimum wage. Thus why English is a requirement to learn if you want to live in the US. Just like how you need to learn Japanese if you want to survive in Japan, or French if you want to survive in France.

All you've done here is shown your true colors as a racist bastard.

Being racist means that I discout the merits of a race as a whole and not the merits of the individual. Where did I discount the merits of a race as a whole, I'd like you to point out one of my posts and give me a detailed explaination supporting this fact.

You are only calling me racist because you're Hispanic yourself and everything I say is basically Heresy because I'm not agreeing with you.

http://dictionary.re...search?q=racist

It seems like I'm bitching, but do I not have the right? Does hundreds of thousands out there not have the right in which we will take action when we go and vote? Theres a reason why this is brought up. And guess what, its because of people bitching. But the government is seeing how severe it is becoming and finally doing something about it.

There's something called school. Pay a visit there sometime and maybe you can enroll in some spanish classes (like I did in high school AND college).

It's called money. Maybe you don't have bills to pay and babies to take care of but I do. There's something else called time. Maybe you have it to sit there and play videogames and such, but I don't. Before you go and try to debunk that, I'll save you the time. You can't. You just can't tell somebody to go and do something like its the easiest thing in the world because you do not live that persons life.

Dude you are coming across as a little racist. Not to jump your shit. And you are casting the entire mexican community in a very negative light.

Why do you feel that your pride in AMERICA, something that you didnt build and really have no tangible claim in other that is where you live should count more than all the other americans.

Did you serve the country in time of war.

Did anyone in you country serve this country in a time of war.

Have you sacrificed for your country.

You come across as a lazy ugly american. (No insult intended) And the fact that you are probably a white male offends me even more. You are really representing the Southern white male sterotype to the T.

Do you drink Bud or Bush?

You have a right to your opinion but spouting that "same old" 100 year old KKK propanganda line that has been assigned to every migratory ethnic group from Germans to Mexicans just isnt very smart.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 05:49:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 04:14 PM)

I once lived in a town named Rockport, TX(home of Dat Nguyen).

What a great athlete he was too. The cowboys lost a great linebacker due to injuries.
Despite his size, he proved to be one of the best linebackers in cowboys history.
Too bad his career with the cowboys was cut short due to injuries.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 05:52:00 PM

Don't be so quick to say that because I'm Mexican, I dont' make any efforts to understand other cultures because it seems like that's what you're doing.

I never accused you of ignoring other's cultures. What I am accusing you of is ignorance towards

-US Schooling system and it's curriculum. You bashed me for not knowing AZ is a part of Mexico in which this was NOT TAUGHT in AZ High Schools NOR Junior High Schools.

-That you ignored I was an immigrant and you just called me a stereotypical white guy when I specifically said I was Asian

not only this, you called me a retard, stupid and a racist without justification. Not only did I prove that you're biased, puckSR just proved that you did not read my post whatsoever which goes in conjunction towards me calling you biased, in which the only reason why you're saying what you're saying, is because you don't agree with it. In fact, your latest post just told me you're biased due to the people that you grew up with and stuck around.

Dude you are coming across as a little racist. Not to jump your shit. And you are casting the entire mexican community in a very negative light.

No i'm not. Read the definition, I'm not coming across like anything. And I'm casting the Mexicans in a negative light? Well maybe that's because what's currently in discussion IS negative and there's nothing I can do about that. If you want me to praise them and their contributions, I can, but that's not what this topic is about.

The Pro-Immigrant march is about wanting the legality status for current illegals, now while they've tried to show us their contributions (in which those who live in such areas know), in the end, its not about the contributions, its about the legality issue. That is what the government is attempting to work out right now.

You can twist it or believe whatever you want, but fact of the matter is, jumping the border illegally is not viewed positive in any way when it comes to the American people, especially the government. Because this is the topic at hand, of course what I'm saying is gonna come across as negative, if I'm against these marches and FOR the bill.

By a lot of peoples logic here, George Bush is basically evil if he passes this bill and to some, already are because of even bringing it up in the 1st place. That is simply not true and only said by people who only see one side of the argument.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 05:56:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:22 PM)

I know your kind of people and I always find that people like you end up being complete jackasses, ignorant fucks, and smart mouthed wanna be knowitalls that really doesnt know wtf theyre talking about in the end.

Wow, you just defined yourself and you don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:00:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:59 PM)

-That you ignored I was an immigrant and you just called me a stereotypical white guy when I specifically said I was Asian

Not only did I prove that you're biased, puckSR just proved that you did not read my post whatsoever which goes in conjunction towards me calling you biased, in which the only reason why you're saying what you're saying, is because you don't agree with it. In fact, your latest post just told me you're biased due to the people that you grew up with and stuck around.

Haha... funny.

Read my posts again and you'll see Not once did I call you a racist white guy. You're saying I didn't read your post, but it's obvious from the quote above that you're the one who's not paying attention to the details.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:03:00 PM

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 14 2006, 01:03 AM)

Wow, you just defined yourself and you don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss....

You can scream as much profanities as you like but what you say is defined by how others percieve you. Yeah what I said is touchy and I can be called a racist for saying it, but that doesnt mean its true. I gave my opinion, observations, and experience from where I am, instead of trying to shove what you think, are answers down somebody else's throat.

Here you are, calling me all these names w/o justification, and w/o knowledge of who I am in the 1st place. Am I calling you any names? No, calling somebody biased isnt name calling. How does it look to these people when you're calling me all these profanities, yet, I'm attempting to let you know where I'm coming from?

True, a lot of things I say could be rephrased, so that it may better be understood, but I apologize if a person takes it the wrong way. I don't mean any disrespect or anything.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:03:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 05:05 PM)

Dont get me involved...
The white redneck comments came from jha'dhur
The racist comments came from Alex548

I agree with puck here. You're just pulling crap out your ass without reading who you're replying to.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:04:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 14 2006, 01:05 AM)

Dont get me involved...
The white redneck comments came from jha'dhur
The racist comments came from Alex548

edit: I only pointed out that you pointed out.

Alex, I debunked everything you said and now you're just grasping for straws because you have nothing left.

and yes, you did call me a racist bastard. Don't cover somebody else's stereotype because you made a mistake before thinking.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:05:00 PM

QUOTE

I'm in the United States of F'in America, I shouldnt HAVE to learn Spanish to cater to illegals. FUCK THAT.

Who's the one screaming profanities?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:09:00 PM

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 14 2006, 01:12 AM)

Who's the one screaming profanities?

Grasping for straws like I said. Those comments are generally not considered directed towards anybody but venting frustration. You directed obscene and hateful comments towards me w/o any real proof or reason to do so except that you don't like my opinions.

I did not call you stupid. I did not call you a retard. I did not call you a racist, end of story. We all know who did all that.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:15:00 PM

Grasping at what straws?

You posted a comment stating you weren't the one saying profanities, then I pull out one of you quotes to prove you wrong. Now you're trying to make excuses rather than address the comment directly.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:17:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto)

Here you are, calling me all these names w/o justification, and w/o knowledge of who I am in the 1st place. Am I calling you any names? No, calling somebody biased isnt name calling. How does it look to these people when you're calling me all these profanities, yet, I'm attempting to let you know where I'm coming from?

Gee its so easy to prove that you can't read. It was never about using profanity in general, it was about using profanity against another, and you're guilty of that. You know it so why don't you just either A. Stop posting or B. get back to the topic at hand?

BTW it is against the Terms of Service so consider it a lesson towards your future posts.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:24:00 PM

QUOTE

BTW it is against the Terms of Service so consider it a lesson towards your future posts.

Calling you racial slurs is definitely against the terms of service... did I do that? Hell no.

Cursing is against terms of service. Did I once say the F word? Nope.

Who did? Oh yeah, you did.

Either way, you're obviously just trying to continue more arguments. I'm done. Say whatever you will about me, I'm not the one who keeps talking about Mexicans and how there's too many of them in Glendale. Fact is, they're everywhere and will continue to come here in search of economic prosperity. They're gonna do whatever it takes to survive and no amount of arguing here is gonna stop them.

Let's just agree to disagree. Beer is on me.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:32:00 PM

Wow, you just can't read can you? Cursing is not against terms of service, but how you use that language is. In no way, what I said that you quoted, would offend anybody in any way, espeically under the Terms and Conditions definitions.

I'm done here as well, I just cant seem to get through to somebody that can't read properly.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 06:32:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 07:59 PM)

-That you ignored I was an immigrant and you just called me a stereotypical white guy when I specifically said I was Asian

They guy on the last page asked you if you were a japanese. And you skirted the question.

You have some audacity being "ONE OF THEM PEARL HARBOR" MF'ers.

Dude let it go, your only one step or two up from a mexican on the immigration pyramid.

I will stop now because I mean no ill will, but know your role shut your mouth and keep that BIRD FLU
(TFOT) The Frack Over There.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got JOKES, and JOKES , and JOKES. B***HES

P.S. You should be happy you are even in this country you could be in some temple getting kicked in the arse by some bully with a pony tail wearing a SITH Man Skirt.

LMAO!!!!!!!!

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 06:38:00 PM

They guy on the last page asked you if you were a japanese. And you skirted the question.

Because I was too wrapped up in replying to other things that needed more attention to, than answering what country I am from, in which a lot of you aren't too coopertive either when it comes to answering the question. Also, I already mentioned that I was Asian, so your head was too far up your ass when you made the comment about the stereotypical Southern White guy in which was totally false in the 1st place.

No I'm not Japanese, I'm SE Asian, exactly which country, does not matter, we're viewed as Asians regardless so even if I was Japanese, everything said about Asians would be directed towards me anyways.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 06:51:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 05:39 PM)

Quote from the posting rules:

QUOTE

When making a new post, or topic, or replying to existing posts/topics this site expects you to not be rude, and do not flame others. Avoiding swearing in a post, or in a topic as staff might remove (or make invisible to the membership) your topic or post. (staff will rarely waste the time of editing your post. They have enough to do already)

I guess I cannot "read properly."

Dude, I called a truce on my last post, yet you still wanna keep flaming? What's up with that?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 07:01:00 PM

QUOTE

Forum Terms & Rules

Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.

Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board.

This is what you and everyone else agreed to. What you posted, I did not even have a chance to read as it was not stickied in the current sub-section of the forum. Also, I could not have agreed to these rules you just quoted because I did not see them. That doesnt mean I can't read.

I have violated no Terms of Service thus far. I am, however, subject to a moderator's action because of what was posted, but as far as it can go, is an edit. What you were saying was a bannable offense.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 13, 2006, 07:07:00 PM

I quoted the global posting rules.

How is calling you racist (based on your posts) and an idiot a bannable offense?

Like I said before, we should agree to disagree. The fact you failed to read the other rules that govern this website don't change anything. You and I both engaged in a flame war and now I've been trying to call a truce, but you refuse to let it go. Why can't you just let it go?

You're entitled to your opinions just as I am. Let's just go along our merry ways and forget about it.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 07:16:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 08:45 PM)

Dude you are ruining my buzz and making my vagina hurt...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 13, 2006, 07:27:00 PM

Final post here.

1. Bannable offenses are those that violate the ToS, in which even if it does break the global posting rules, it has done so, so extremely that it's a valid reason.

2. Global Posting Rules are subject to action disclosed in the post itself, in which it states that a moderator would most likely make the post in question invisible, instead of editing it, but it is subject to an edit.

Actions resulting in broken rules cannot lead to a ban unless it has violated the ToS, that is why some people are so hard to ban. It's also subject to a moderators point of view and opinion, so the mod has to deem it extreme enough for such action.

It would be wise for a moderator to be lenient, but also use the rules in their favor when they do ban someone. It means that the board you're posting in is a good one, unlike PS2-Scene and PS2NFO of the past where people were banned on-sight because the mod or admin didnt like what they said even though it wasnt a bannable offense in the ToS.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 13, 2006, 07:43:00 PM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 09:34 PM)

Final post here.

Thanks BRO!!

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 15, 2006, 12:01:00 PM

Good thing you used all those exclamation points.
It makes this thread a lot easier to read.

If businesses were penalized properly this would be a non-issue, across the board.
If illegals had no place to work or get income, they would have no reason to be here.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 15, 2006, 01:47:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 15 2006, 02:08 PM)

Good thing you used all those exclamation points.
It makes this thread a lot easier to read.

If businesses were penalized properly this would be a non-issue, across the board.
If illegals had no place to work or get income, they would have no reason to be here.

So you mean to tell me that if predominatly "white" business owners were penalized, faced fines, and even jail time for repeated offenses this would a nonissue.

Dude you should run for president you have my vote.

I said something very similiar on the 1st page before this thread turned into the "Lou Dobbs" report.

I wish everyday "white" Americans would get there heads out of there arses.

Not that this is a race issue but, wealthy America speaks down to middle and lower class America with the same divissive tactics "blame THEM"

While they reap the financial benefits...

P.S. Just send your tax check straight to Halliburton, and eliminate the middle man (IRS).

LOL

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 15, 2006, 03:07:00 PM

I havent done a head count, yet. But, even if I did I wouldn't right away say that whites were helping eachother get on top.

It is a matter of corruption. Big business can afford to pay to get what they want. Money is power. It just may happen to be a lot of white people.

I am white, when am I gonna get a chance at big business?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: prominator on April 15, 2006, 09:16:00 PM

do you think that its ok to make anyone who helps illegal immigrants delinquents?
even if lets say a american kid helps his best friend who is from another country?

how would you fill if they took your mom back to her country were she was bore? she has been here since for ever and she does not know anyone from were she is from anymore. what whould she do?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 15, 2006, 11:47:00 PM

i think the solution to illegal immigration is to just make it easier for people to immigrate here legally (i sense a long discussion brewing form this one)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 16, 2006, 06:48:00 AM

QUOTE(prominator @ Apr 15 2006, 08:23 PM)

Yes, it is illegal to help illegals. Even if it is your best friend. If it was my mom, I would feel bad, but then again, she is ILLEGAL. She should have gone through the process.

My main qualm would be the children of illegals born here. I don't have a fair solution for them.

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 15 2006, 10:54 PM)

i think the solution to illegal immigration is to just make it easier for people to immigrate here legally (i sense a long discussion brewing form this one)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 16, 2006, 08:50:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 08:55 AM)

It is not illegal to help illegals.

That is the whole stir up with this bill by requiring churches and other institutions to function like immigration and report illegals.

This country was born on the shoulders of slavery and this whole Mexican issue is merely modern day slavery "at best"

"Americans" have lost track of the pretense of the core values this country was founded upon.

All we need now is some goober with a narrow mustache to rise up to tell us all how bad we got it and how the "MEXI-JEWS" are ruining our country.

GOD forbid we hold any elected officials feet to the fire.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 16, 2006, 09:28:00 AM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 16 2006, 07:57 AM)

GOD forbid we hold any elected officials feet to the fire.

This might be the only part of your post I agree with.

How is this at all salvery? It is slavery, at worst not best. They are indentured servants at best. They steal healthcare that even I don't get. My insurance isnt as good as theirs. I have a co-pay. They don't pay anything. In fact, hospitals pay other hospitals to take them because it is a cheaper cost then keeping them themselves. My wife was an RN for 12 months, in a level 1 trauma floor, in Phoenix, until last week when we moved to Virginia Beach.

They are living better than they did in Mexico (which isn't the only large population of illegals, just the only one to speak so loudly). The Mexicans are saying they are merely in "their" land. We stole it, they did nothing wrong. At least all the other illegals are smart enough to know they did something wrong. The Mexicans should be waiving American flag at their rallies and then, maybe, I would start to feel a little sympathy.

What about Cubans, Asians, and every other group? Why aren't they rallying? Cause they know they became indentured servants, which is a better life than they had. And, they are making a better life for their family.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 16, 2006, 10:54:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

How is this at all salvery? It is slavery, at worst not best. They are indentured servants at best. They steal healthcare that even I don't get. My insurance isnt as good as theirs. I have a co-pay. They don't pay anything. In fact, hospitals pay other hospitals to take them because it is a cheaper cost then keeping them themselves. My wife was an RN for 12 months, in a level 1 trauma floor, in Phoenix, until last week when we moved to Virginia Beach.

I have family members that have been in the heaalthcare proffesion probably longer than you have been breathing, and i have heard the story so many times that hospitals will only take an individual long enough to stabilize him/her which is there legal obligation. After that they will "dump" your white, black, hispanic, asian, arse the same.

In fact there was recently MSNBC story on it where, a securuty camera caught hospital employess dumping an elderly white woman on the streets after emergency room visit.

QUOTE

Carol Ann Reyes, 63, of Gardena, was taken from a Kaiser Permanente hospital in Bellflower on Monday to the downtown area known as Skid Row, authorities said.

A surveillance camera outside the Union Rescue Mission showed Reyes walking from the direction of a taxi that had just driven away. She wandered the street for about three minutes before a mission staff member brought her inside.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11992490/

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

They are living better than they did in Mexico (which isn't the only large population of illegals, just the only one to speak so loudly).

Irish, Italian, Spanish, Greek, African, Romanian, AMERICANS are all living better than there cousins in the olde country.

YOUR POINT.........

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

What about Cubans, Asians, and every other group? Why aren't they rallying? Cause they know they became indentured servants, which is a better life than they had. And, they are making a better life for their family.

Lets see a cuban, a mexican, and a Dominican can all board a inner tube and float over to Miami. Guess who will not be sent back upon reaching dry land.

The Cuban.

I went to a university with a large immigrant student body, and I have said this years ago immigration laws are simply: RACIALLY motivated, unless you are native of an oil wealthy country, like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Kuwait and the likes.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

How is this at all salvery? It is slavery, at worst not best.

Picking crops for not enough money to survive on while the benefactors of this institution get wealthy, very close

P.S. Just send your tax payment straight to Halliburton.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 16, 2006, 11:09:00 AM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 16 2006, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE

In fact there was recently MSNBC story on it where, a securuty camera caught hospital employess dumping an elderly white woman on the streets after emergency room visit.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11992490/
Irish, Italian, Spanish, Greek, African, Romanian, AMERICANS are all living better than there cousins in the olde country.

You cannot prove by one example. The reason this was on MSNBC was because this action was morally wrong as well as illegal.

QUOTE

YOUR POINT.........
Lets see a cuban, a mexican, and a Dominican can all board a inner tube and float over to Miami. Guess who will not be sent back upon reaching dry land.

The Cuban.

I went to a university with a large immigrant student body, and I have said this years ago immigration laws are simply: RACIALLY motivated, unless you are native of an oil wealthy country, like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Kuwait and the likes.
Picking crops for not enough money to survive on while the benefactors of this institution get wealthy, very close

P.S. Just send your tax payment straight to Halliburton.

I agree, hold the people who are responsible, accountable for their actions.

I am not trying t prove anything with ths next statement, but I still find it interesting. The team I played for, the Anaheim Angels, not only paid a particular Cuban millions of dollars, they also helped him deport. They had trouble getting it done from Cuba so they had him deport to the Dominican 1st. I think that is how the story goes. His name is Kendry Morales.

My guess is there is no working agreement with Cuba as there is with other countries. We don't even take their cigars, but we house their people.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 16, 2006, 11:45:00 AM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 16 2006, 12:01 PM)

Picking crops for not enough money to survive on while the benefactors of this institution get wealthy, very close

i dont know too many wealthy farmers
IPB Image

and as i recall, slaves got no money, not "barely enough money"

as throwingks said, its much closer to indentured servitude (same thing happens to starving artists who move out to new york, or wannabe actors who move to LA)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: prominator on April 16, 2006, 12:43:00 PM

like it or not some day there will be no more white people
and that will be the day that the world will be in peace!

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: gcskate27 on April 16, 2006, 02:49:00 PM

^ohh fuck off, thats the stupidest statement in this thread...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 16, 2006, 04:09:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 01:16 PM)

You are mistaken. They get them well enough to either, send them to a long term care facility on the hospitals dime. Or, get them well enough to be deported. My wife is standing oer my shoulder as I type this.

You cannot prove by one example. The reason this was on MSNBC was because this action was morally wrong as well as illegal.
I agree, hold the people who are responsible, accountable for their actions.

You must be from a wealthy state baecasue, in most states I have been to no insurance no overnight under most circumstances. Hospital is only required to stabilize not provide long term care. (I am speaking off Americans)

In fact a good friend of mine ruptured a disc, in her back the doctor, because she didnt have insurance, told her to go to the emergency room if she pisses on herself.

She walks aroung for a few weeks with her spinal cord rubbing against one of her back vertabra, until she pisses herself. She is not paralyzed only by the grace of GOD.

She only got the operation because she had it done at a university hospital by basically one doctor and a bunch of grad students.

You didnt read the MSNBC link did you because that is essentially what the particular hospital in that story did.
And from what my relative that has been a registered nurse for the better part of 30 years indicated this practice is on the increase, and has advised the female with the back practice to sue the hospital.

P.S.
Does your wife work at a county hospital?

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 16 2006, 01:52 PM)

i dont know too many wealthy farmers
IPB Image

By money I mean food, clothing.

The farm system in this country is welfare.

Acting, or singing isnt a nessecity of life, so if you resort to selling yourself to some old fat white dude (Mariah Carey, Celine Deion, J-Ho) to get famous I am not going to shed a tear for you.

QUOTE(prominator @ Apr 16 2006, 02:50 PM)

like it or not some day there will be no more white people
and that will be the day that the world will be in peace!

George Bush and D. Rumsfiled deserve an A for effort. They have managed to provide nearly 3000 americans with DIRT NAPS, most of them being white, but

NONONE CARES.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 16, 2006, 04:44:00 PM

QUOTE(prominator @ Apr 15 2006, 08:23 PM)

how would you fill if they took your mom back to her country were she was bore? she has been here since for ever and she does not know anyone from were she is from anymore. what whould she do?

Similar things happened at the time of the depression except both Legal AND illegal mexicans were sent packing to Mexico.
They had a choice... leave their homes, ranches, farms and other personal belongings behind and head to Mexico (even though they were born in the U.S.) or stay and get killed by angry mobs of people who blamed illegal immigrants for the depression.

Legal or not, if you had brown skin and brown eyes, you were forced out of this country because angry Americans (at that time) blamed you and your race for economic collapse. Sux, doesn't it?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 16, 2006, 07:10:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 16 2006, 03:16 PM)

Does your wife work at a county hospital?

No, it was a private hospital. She was on the trauma floor, level 1 meaning they can handle just about every type of emergency. The trauma floor is where people go after the emergency room.

The hospital was Scottsdale Healthcare. Link: http://www.shc.org/

AZ isn't too wealthy, in my opinion. We moved to Virginia Beach about a week ago and my wife makes roughly $10/hr less. And, the cost of living is higher. Why did we move? We're crazy, that's why.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: navysailor_E3 on April 16, 2006, 08:40:00 PM

Some of these responses are quite intriguing. I didn't read every single one of them, so I might be saying something someone else has already said, but regardless, this is going to be my own opinion about this.

First of all, I'm baffled that we even let illegal immigrants march in the streets in the first place. People that are breaking the law, coming here illegally, not paying taxes, taking jobs away, these are people that are demanding that we give them rights. ... If they get any kind of rights, so should tax evaders! All tax evaders should unite and march in the streets demanding they not be labeled as criminals! /sarcasm

My point is, we shouldn't be even considering amnesty to illegals. For one, it insults the legal immigrants who worked hard and went through the legal troubles to get here and stay here. Two, it insults the American citizen and negates the value of citizenship as a whole. The excuse Bush is putting out that illegals are taking jobs Americans don't want is total BS. I couldn't even get a job at a fast-food restaurant because I didn't know how to speak spanish. That's in my OWN COUNTRY. Now, the government is realizing just how big of a mistake they made by not securing our borders, and now it's apparent that we have over 10 million of these illegals that are doing nothing but ripping apart our country from the inside out. Also, all these illegals labeling Americans as racist are just proving their ignorance even more. This has nothing to do with race. "illegal immigrant" doesn't just apply to mexicans. It applies to any individual who comes across our borders illegally, regardless of if they're from Mexico, Canada, Ireland, Germany, etc. As for the illegals that are already here, I realize that it isn't a simple measure to get them out; you can't just round them up and ship them off to where ever they came from(although we had that chance during the protests

), but it would at least take time to solve the issue. Personally, I don't even believe in race. You're either an American, or you're a non-American; skin color doesn't matter, but Nationality does. A couple more things. For the people that say illegals contribute to our economy... do some research sometime. Illegals are costing California more than 2 billion dollars each year alone. That's just in one state. Even if some of them do contribute, their cost far outweighs their input. The concept of simply being born here gives you citizenship is flawed, and it needs to change somehow. Illegals have abused this part of our constitution to the greatest extent possible, and that's one of the reasons why we have so many illegals here in the first place.

My argument could have used a little more organization, but hey, it's been a long day for me. To wrap it up, I have recently joined the United States Navy(hence my name on here). One of the things that made me hesitant to join, though, was the fact that one day I just might be fighting for people that aren't even citizens of the country I'm fighting for. I find that ridiculous. When people that don't even belong here demand these rights that some American citizens don't even get, and they disgrace our Nation by chanting "viva mexico" and waving mexican flags, that's where I draw the line.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 16, 2006, 08:55:00 PM

QUOTE(navysailor_E3 @ Apr 16 2006, 10:47 PM)

Sir, having served my time aboard a naval vessel at war, as MM2(SS). I have had both the distinguishment and honor to serve with many hispanic sailors of varying nationalites, who were not American citizens.

Considering both the douchebag density in the average american city, and the fact that a few hundred years ago we were all illegal immigrants I dont share your OPINION.

QUOTE

hesitant to join, though, was the fact that one day I just might be fighting for people that aren't even citizens of the country I'm fighting for. I find that ridiculous. When people that don't even belong here demand these rights that some American citizens don't even get, and they disgrace our Nation by chanting "viva mexico" and waving mexican flags, that's where I draw the line.

Does the current administration disgrace thid country?

Not one amongst them sacrificed for this country. Rumsfield and Chaney have multiple BOGUS defferments allowing them to avoid the killing fields when it was there turn to bleed. And Bush is nothing more than a deserter plain and simple.

5 BOAT.........

SSN 705 CITY of CORPUS CHRISTI

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 16, 2006, 08:57:00 PM

QUOTE

People that are breaking the law, coming here illegally, not paying taxes, taking jobs away, these are people that are demanding that we give them rights. ... If they get any kind of rights, so should tax evaders! All tax evaders should unite and march in the streets demanding they not be labeled as criminals! /sarcasm

The majority of the people marching on the streets are supporters of immigrants and they ARE legal citizens of the U.S.

illegal immigrants pay taxes every single time they buy something at the store so you're just regurgitating the same BS that you heard somewhere else. Here's a nice little tidbit for ya. LEGAL US CITIZENS RIP OFF THE GOVERNMENT EVERY SINGLE YEAR BY FILING FRAUDULENT TAX RETURN FORMS. Tax cheats make our government lose money. Taking what jobs? Do you see any white people working in the fields?

The U.S. relies heavily on these illegal immigrants to help provide food on our tables, but you still wanna say get the hell out.

In the past, the U.S. has gone so far as to beg them to come across the border to work in the fields (research the Bracero Program).

You obviously didn't read all the posts because most of the stuff you mentioned has already been covered, but considering this thread has gone numerous posts... I don't blame you.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: navysailor_E3 on April 16, 2006, 09:36:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 16 2006, 10:02 PM)

the fact that a few hundred years ago we were all illegal immigrants

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 16 2006, 10:04 PM)

So you're stereotyping our ancestors? How dignified of you. The fact of the matter is, times have changed, and it was different back then. For your information, most of the immigrants were LEGAL, and the ones that were illegal still busted it and actually learned our language and worked hard(not saying that negates the fact that illegal immigration is still illegal). All the illegals I've seen around here and/or heard about, they barely know a word of English, and they have kids so that they can suck welfare from the government, and at the same time making their stay in the U.S. permanent. For being a shipmate, you seem to not have as much pride in being a U.S. citizen as I would assume you would.

As for Alex, yes, they do technically pay some tax whenever they make a purchase at a store, but the vast majority of the government's revenue is from INCOME TAX, something ILLEGALS don't pay. As for what you said about U.S. citizens ripping off the government as well, you obviously didn't get the big picture when I used the sarcastic analogy. Tax evading is wrong. Period. No matter who does it. Illegals are just as guilty as the people you just described, so thanks for sticking your own foot in your mouth. As for the jobs, again, you apparently didn't listen to what I just said. I couldn't get a job here because I didn't know how to speak spanish. That's catering to their needs; while they sit there and practically refuse to learn OUR language, we're forced into a predicament where we need to learn someone else's language in order to make any progress. Well, you're not forced, but you basically have no options. You get the idea.

That's total BS on what you just said about us relying on illegals to "have food on our tables". You want to know one of the real reasons why businesses hire illegals, besides cheap labor? It's the fact that they can't form labor unions. I wonder if anyone has brought that up yet.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 16, 2006, 11:55:00 PM

QUOTE

All the illegals I've seen around here and/or heard about, they barely know a word of English, and they have kids so that they can suck welfare from the government, and at the same time making their stay in the U.S. permanent.

To get on welfare you must have documents such as birth certificates, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS, and proof of income (or lack therof). That's why you see such a low percentage of them actually on the welfare system. Here's some data for you to take a look at:

White 38.8%
Black 39.8%
Hispanic 15.7%
Asian 2.4%
other 3.3%

SEE: Andrew Hacker, _Two Nations Balck and White: Separate, Hostile, Unequal_, Scribners, 1992, p. 87.

In regards to the language issue.... even those who have LEGALLY come into the U.S. have issues with the language. Does every single asian, arab, and Indian speak fluent english? No. All immigrants regardless of ethnicity have a bit of trouble learning the english language (especially if they're first generation). Given time, they actually try very hard to understand the language. Their children have an advantage over the first generation since they are still very young and have minds like sponges (they just soak it all up). The key point in your statement is this "All the illegals I've seen around here and/or heard about..." You're basing your arguments on heresay?

QUOTE

I couldn't get a job here because I didn't know how to speak spanish. That's catering to their needs; while they sit there and practically refuse to learn OUR language, we're forced into a predicament where we need to learn someone else's language in order to make any progress.

You come off sounding rather closed minded. If your environment requires you to adapt (learn another language), then why don't you at least make an effort to do so? I find it rather amusing when I hear people complain about language as a barrier. Why? Because while most other countries teach their children 3 or more languages, the U.S. only teaches one (maybe 2 if you're lucky). Learning another language is the first step to understanding other cultures. Unfortunately, most people rather not make an attempt to understand any other culture except their own.

QUOTE

That's total BS on what you just said about us relying on illegals to "have food on our tables". You want to know one of the real reasons why businesses hire illegals, besides cheap labor? It's the fact that they can't form labor unions. I wonder if anyone has brought that up yet.

If they don't have unions, then I wonder what Cesar Chavez was fighting for in the 70's? I suppose he organized the grape strike because he just didn't like the taste of them.

There's numerous labor unions. The biggest example is the United Farmworkers Union (backed by the AFL-CIO). I guess you never "heard" about that either.

By the way, where does all the produce you buy in the stores come from? Take a wild guess who's picking them so you can eat?

You brought up a couple points nobody else has yet to mention, but data and research support the opposite point of view.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 17, 2006, 02:20:00 PM

QUOTE

In regards to the language issue.... even those who have LEGALLY come into the U.S. have issues with the language. Does every single asian, arab, and Indian speak fluent english? No. All immigrants regardless of ethnicity have a bit of trouble learning the english language (especially if they're first generation).

QUOTE

You come off sounding rather closed minded. If your environment requires you to adapt (learn another language), then why don't you at least make an effort to do so?

QUOTE

You brought up a couple points nobody else has yet to mention, but data and research support the opposite point of view.

yet you show us no proof either.

QUOTE

Unfortunately, most people rather not make an attempt to understand any other culture except their own.

exactly why he's criticizing illegals. they're doing exactly what you just said, although you pretend you don't know, you know it yourself in which you just showed us.

we americans, do make an attempt to learn their language. Ever saw the Ford commercial? You see a mexican guy speaking english, talking about their service, he said, I came in speaking their language, then said in spanish "Instead they speak mine"

Another example was when I was watching our local news. They said that they provide the same newscasts
"En Espanol" so obviously we're learning their language or at least catering to them so that they aren't left out either.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 17, 2006, 02:45:00 PM

QUOTE(shuyin131 @ Apr 17 2006, 01:27 PM)

gee you just answered your own question. Seems like you want to stick up for illegals but condemn citizens? You say that illegals have trouble learning English? Don't you think it's the same for us? Regardless of if we have the classes available or not? Fact is, the majority spoken language in the US is English, and that is why we don't care to learn another language if we're not gonna go anywhere. Does that mean we're ignornat? No. Does that mean we're close minded? No.

In fact, go to many other countries and see if they know english. That's right, 99% of the time, if you spoke to a local, they most likely DON'T know english, but if you go to a business, more specifically, a worldwide chain, like McD's you'd find somebody that can speak English.
yet you show us no proof either.
exactly why he's criticizing illegals. they're doing exactly what you just said, although you pretend you don't know, you know it yourself in which you just showed us.

we americans, do make an attempt to learn their language. Ever saw the Ford commercial? You see a mexican guy speaking english, talking about their service, he said, I came in speaking their language, then said in spanish "Instead they speak mine"

Another example was when I was watching our local news. They said that they provide the same newscasts
"En Espanol" so obviously we're learning their language or at least catering to them so that they aren't left out either.

You obviously didn't spend any time reading the posts.

I especially like this part: "Yet you show us no proof either."
Hello!

You must not have seen the welfare statistics I pointed out. Hell, I even cited where the the data was from.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely closed minded. That's why I know three languages and work with primarily arab, Indian, and mexican people on a daily basis. I guess being married to a "white" person makes me even more closed minded?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 17, 2006, 03:08:00 PM

QUOTE

You obviously didn't spend any time reading the posts.

yet I broke down key points in your argument, which means I read the entire thing.

QUOTE

Hello! You must not have seen the welfare statistics I pointed out. Hell, I even cited where the the data was from.

Asian 38.8%
Hispanic 39.8%
White 15.7%
Black 2.4%
other 3.3%

See? Anybody can type that up. Show us a significant link, from a good source, and we'll look more closely at what you're saying. Otherwise, its not counted as proof.

edit: I googled your Andrew Hacker and that except came from a book, from 1992 no less. From 1992 to 2006, are huge jumps in population and changes in the employment scene. It's outdated, and not only outdated, it's based on opinion and inconclusive evidence. Give us something real, like statistics from the government census or real data from the Welfare services themselves.

QUOTE

Oh yeah, I'm definitely closed minded.

Show me where in my post that said you were.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Alex548 on April 17, 2006, 03:35:00 PM

QUOTE

Give us something real, like statistics from the government census or real data from the Welfare services themselves.

We don't have a Census every single year.

Besides, over 78% of those on welfare are black/white. Do you really think that number has dramatically changed since the last census? You want more statistics, search for them. Maybe take some college courses on the subject (like I did).

There's no point in providing any further statistical proof because you're just gonna pull some crap out your ass and change the subject anyway. For that matter, there's no point in even visiting this thread anymore since I can obviously see people don't give a damn to see any other points of view other than your own.

Lemme guess, you're gonna take my last sentence and try to pull some more crap out your ass with it. Before you even try, I can tell you I'm american, I was born & raised here. I have proven time and again that I'm not biased towards americans yet just because I fail to agree with the common mexican stereotypes in my previous posts, SOME people here have decided to suggest I'm anti-american. All the statistical data and all that research on these specific subjects I read while in college must be wrong.

Go ahead and say whatever the hell you want. I won't reply anymore.
Most people trying to argue these points haven't even taken any courses or researched the subject at hand and only choose to repeat what they "heard."

Have a good day.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 17, 2006, 09:06:00 PM

QUOTE

There's no point in providing any further statistical proof because you're just gonna pull some crap out your ass and change the subject anyway.

Statistical proof? I'm asking you to stand your ground because you have no ground to stand on. Everything you've given us thus far has been assumptions, opinions, hearsay, etc.

Change the subject? Since when did we change the subject? You say one thing, then say another thing which completely contradicts the 1st thing that you said.

Then you accuse me of calling you close-minded when I never did. I asked you to show me and you didn't.

QUOTE

For that matter, there's no point in even visiting this thread anymore since I can obviously see people don't give a damn to see any other points of view other than your own.

Thats complete and utter bullshit. You are guilty of that, not we. I've been lurking around here pretty much and your posts are mainly the reason why I've come out of lurking the boards. I just can't stand people like you, who can't see eye to eye with people just because they don't agree with you.

I've seen you go toe to toe with Kira Yamoto, and got owned, and hard, I might add. I saw you converse with navyguy and you did not provide any proof as to what you were talking about and not only that, he pointed out that you didn't read a word he said, which goes back to Kira owning you because he proved you can't read. Either that, or you're so ignorant to the other side of facts that you refuse to listen.

Just because some of us here have different opinions, DOES NOT MEAN we dont see other points of view. All of us tried our best in expressing our opinions but you just can't sit well w/ the other side of someone's views and opinion.

QUOTE

I have proven time and again that I'm not biased towards americans

You have proven nothing, nor have you made the attempt. As I said I've been lurking and your posts were the ones that drew me to post because you're obviously too thick-headed and juvenile that you don't even listen to yourself because of how high you are on that horse.

Re-Read the past few pages, your own posts. Really, really pay attention and maybe you'll catch why people think you're biased. You give NO positive light to ANY of the pro-bill side, NOR are you willing to see it's goals, viewpoints, etc. Yet you're on the defensive everytime the subject of anti-bill pops up.

When you go and defend that you're not biased, YOU MADE IT LOOK WORSE by saying that you grew up around hispanics all your life, and that you're even a hispanic yourself, but you try to cover it up to mean you're not biased by saying you married a white woman. It doesnt matter, you're biased. Get over it.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 18, 2006, 09:31:00 AM

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 09:08 PM)

I didn't flame you, I posted what I thought to be true. Why can't you let someone's opinion of you just sit right where it is? You called me a racist and I didnt reply with profanities, I just made my case and that was the end of it. When I said you couldnt read, I truly believe that you can't and in my mind, was not meant as a flame. It was completely in your power to step away. I did step away, in fact, I dropped the issue altogether and only made a comment (in which you thought was a flame, maybe it was?) towards why I stopped. It had nothing to do with the issue we wanted dropped.
This is what you and everyone else agreed to. What you posted, I did not even have a chance to read as it was not stickied in the current sub-section of the forum. Also, I could not have agreed to these rules you just quoted because I did not see them. That doesnt mean I can't read.

I have violated no Terms of Service thus far. I am, however, subject to a moderator's action because of what was posted, but as far as it can go, is an edit. What you were saying was a bannable offense.

Your Governor just today VETO'D the Immigration Bill......

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 18, 2006, 07:44:00 PM

QUOTE

She cited opposition from police agencies that want immigration arrests to remain the responsibility of the federal government.

QUOTE

She also says the Arizona bill provided no funding for the new duties and that lawmakers ignored the opinions of officials most affected by illegal immigration.

Opposition? They're supposed to do their jobs, they live in Arizona all the same and who else to enforce the bill but Arizonan authority?

Funding? Funding for what? Adding a new policy to city police?

QUOTE

Napolitano says she opposes automatically turning all immigrants who sneaked into the state into criminals.

She didn't even consider the pros. The most likely reason why she veto'ed this bill is because she's afraid those illegals will riot and harm other people and cause trouble for the cities involved.

QUOTE

Republican Senator Barbara Leff, who proposed the bill, says the veto demonstrates that the governor doesn't want to confront illegal immigration.

This goes hand in hand with what I said above. She's afraid of what it might do to people. Instead of considering the pros, she only concentrated on the cons and did not outweigh the potential of what good this bill might do.

QUOTE

Prior to her election as Governor of Arizona, she served one term as Arizona Attorney General and four years as U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona. Born in New York City and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, she is a distinguished alumna of Santa Clara University and the University of Virginia Law School. She has lived in Arizona since 1983, when she moved to Phoenix to practice law.

look at the very last link. I say shes biased.

Good thing for me, the bill was signed where I live
http://news.yahoo.co...s/immigration_3

Read that article and notice how none of the problems AZ government brought up, have not been brought up, and that these changes were mostly in policy, which meant they needed no funding whatsoever. If anybody can dispute that I'd like to hear it.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 18, 2006, 08:11:00 PM

QUOTE(shuyin131 @ Apr 18 2006, 09:51 PM)

jha:

I'm pretty interested in anything about this bill, so I googled Phoenix Arizona Immigration and these sites are of interest.

http://kvoa.com/Glob...5&nav=menu216_2
http://azgovernor.gov/BioJN.asp
http://quickfacts.ce...ates/35000.html

About the 1st site, here are some things I found interesting.
Opposition? They're supposed to do their jobs, they live in Arizona all the same and who else to enforce the bill but Arizonan authority?

Funding? Funding for what? Adding a new policy to city police?
She didn't even consider the pros. The most likely reason why she veto'ed this bill is because she's afraid those illegals will riot and harm other people and cause trouble for the cities involved.
This goes hand in hand with what I said above. She's afraid of what it might do to people. Instead of considering the pros, she only concentrated on the cons and did not outweigh the potential of what good this bill might do.
look at the very last link. I say shes biased.

My entire take on this entire thread is that we Americans have to hold officials to their word.

People want revenues from illegals, but cant have it both ways. Secondly, police officers arent immigration enforcement offiicals it is not their mandate nor are they trained to respond as such. And from what I have read this is pretty much the attitude of police across country.

Police are dumb and can barely handle there own jobs this is why they "selectively" enforce laws.

@NavySailor E3

I personallly dont give a sh*t about Mexicans one way or the other.

The last mission I was apart off before leaving the navy was near the russian western coast in the same waters where the Kursk sank. We readied for deployment in a few days and went to sea with tubes flooded with BIG BOYS. One of the subjects of our investigation were those 250 mph torpedoes/underwater missiles.

The same torpedoes IRAN has purchased from the Russians, a seawolf class submarine is at a crwal at 50 knots compared to one of these torpedoes.

You ask someone at your duty station with a warfare pendant (SS or SW), what scares them most illegal immigration or those "ship" killers.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 18, 2006, 08:32:00 PM

QUOTE

People want revenues from illegals, but cant have it both ways. Secondly, police officers arent immigration enforcement offiicals it is not their mandate nor are they trained to respond as such. And from what I have read this is pretty much the attitude of police across country.

Ok, so immigration enforcement isnt a part of their job, but measures can be taken (which already are just about everywhere), when they go do their background checks, they see whether they are illegal or not so all they'd have to do is file the report to the officials involved and let them take it from there.

It's just that for Arizona, before, they'd be deported through the process of reporting to the correct agencies, but because of the veto, they wouldnt be able to make them felons in the process.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 18, 2006, 09:14:00 PM

QUOTE(shuyin131 @ Apr 18 2006, 10:39 PM)

From what I saw in report Ga is the only recent state to adopt and enforce(to be seen) said policy. The news piece stated that U.S. Senate (Sen Kennedy) has put forth hurdles in enforcing immigration law, by preventing employers from requiring certain documents.

But no social or i.d which most illegals probably dont have from my experience is a good reliable indicator. Anyone that hires an individual without the two should be subject to fines and possible prison.

I know individuals who allow fellow countrymen to use their social to aquire employment. It amazes me that our federal government cant find someone on paper working 5 jobs and 145 hrs/week, which is physically impossible, but the truth is they do not want to find them.

And I cant find fault with hard working individuals wanting to better their lives.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 19, 2006, 07:26:00 AM

QUOTE

Mexico Harsh to Undocumented Migrants

http://www.examiner....d_Migrants.html

And, for jah:

QUOTE

Hiring illegals is just as illegal

http://csmonitor.com...08s01-comv.html

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 19, 2006, 11:55:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 19 2006, 09:33 AM)

Some good reads:
And, for jah: http://csmonitor.com...08s01-comv.html

QUOTE

The 1986 reform called for criminal and civil punishment of employers who "knowingly" hire unauthorized workers. But laws and fines are meaningless unless they're applied.

"knowingly" the legal back door/loophole. "I DIDNT know he speaks good ENG LESH"

Remeber who is selling out the american peoples..........

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 19, 2006, 11:45:00 PM

throwingks:

yep I read that. What I thought was that in the eyes of the Mexican border police, they see these people as 'sell outs' to the Mexican people and want to treat them as bad as possible because of it. Everyone else in Mexico are staying in Mexico and dealing w/ it, but they run away to live somewhere else to be better off then they are.

It's inhumane and I don't stand for it, but I can understand what's going through their minds as to why they do it.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 20, 2006, 01:44:00 AM

QUOTE

Okay, Hi. I have read all of the posts and I have to say that I agree with Jha' and Alex.

Seems like you didnt read their previous posts because if you did, you wouldnt agree with them, especially Alex.

QUOTE

I know how hard it was for my family to get our citizenship.

Then you should be FOR this bill because you should know, that what these illegals did is basically everything that goes against what you and your family did to get into America. Your family did all that hard work, and abode by your state's laws, but illegals bypassed all of that.

Frankly, 9 an hour isnt too bad. The only thing that held back these people were how big their families were, 9 an hour for 1 person, to feed a family of 5+ just does not work. Two @ 9 an hour would work, depends on where you live.

QUOTE

What this will do is give a job to someone who speaks Spanish. So if these illegal immigrants come, more jobs will be offered to help them learn.

Bring more jobs? Please. They bring more jobs FOR these people but take away jobs that are going up the chain, even as high as government service positions for regular Americans who don't speak Spanish. Already, at urban areas, are Spanish speaking people occupying more positions in the field of anything that requires contact with another person. Lets just say, Customer Service.

In the business world, you need to be able to reach the highest concentration of your customer base or you wouldnt pull those possible customers in the 1st place. They have to cater to these people for more profit. So when you go into a Wal-Mart, or McDonalds as one other person described, a person that spoke Spanish automatically have priority over you, because that person could occpy a position in which they could speak both languages.

Their now, younger generation are taking over jobs that regular Americans CAN do, but are written off because they didn't know Spanish. Not only are they taking the jobs that Americans do not desire, they are now taking jobs that Americans ARE desiring.

Because they are legal, does not mean this has nothing to do with the illegals, because it all stemmed from them. They have sown seeds to the future of thier children and did what they came here to do. But in effect, have made a negative impact towards other's lives.

While the higher-mid income to the rich are not affected by this, certainly the lower class are. Which goes down to, requiring a higher education if you really want to go somewhere. Because as it's going right now, the children of illegals control the best jobs that a regular person would want to do.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 20, 2006, 02:38:00 PM

http://www.cis.org/a...fiscalexec.html

just found this through some other discussion forums. It's a good read.

this one is too

http://www.homelands...php?storyid=180

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: biggieandmoe on April 20, 2006, 04:41:00 PM

QUOTE

Seems like you didnt read their previous posts because if you did, you wouldnt agree with them, especially Alex.

You just don't Like Alex because his views are different.

QUOTE

No, I shouldn't be. I had no intentions of being in America until Saddam threatened to eliminate the Kurds working with the United States. Illegals bypassed all of that stuff because they have to wait in their country to set tings straight. If they have sh!tty jobs, I don't think they will want to wait 4 more years.

QUOTE

Frankly, 9 an hour isnt too bad. The only thing that held back these people were how big their families were, 9 an hour for 1 person, to feed a family of 5+ just does not work. Two @ 9 an hour would work, depends on where you live.

But most illegals do have lots of families. And since most of them live in California, cost is a lot.

QUOTE

Well, maybe Americans should just try and learn Spanish just like how the illegals learned English. They went through it. Also, the illegals are dedicated to their job where most teenage Americas are lazy.

QUOTE

Because they are legal, does not mean this has nothing to do with the illegals, because it all stemmed from them. They have sown seeds to the future of thier children and did what they came here to do. But in effect, have made a negative impact towards other's lives.

Everyone has planted their seed in America, that's why it's so diverse. Didn't the Asians, Middle Easterners, and Europeans all seeded?

QUOTE

While the higher-mid income to the rich are not affected by this, certainly the lower class are. Which goes down to, requiring a higher education if you really want to go somewhere. Because as it's going right now, the children of illegals control the best jobs that a regular person would want to do.

Isn't that why there is school?? To have higher education. By the way, what is a regular person to you?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 20, 2006, 06:13:00 PM

QUOTE

You just don't Like Alex because his views are different.

I don't like him because of the argument he had with Kira Yamoto and the later posts he had w/ navysailor. Kira was labelled a racist, then was proved that he wasnt. He was then involved in a series of posts in which he refused to post facts, while ignoring other's posts w/o any consideration whatsoever. He posts his opinions, but doesnt back it up with evidence, or does not disprove another's opinions by providing facts. He then says, everyone else doesnt listen to him, because they only listened to themselves, so he left the thread.

QUOTE

And you think that it's completely justifiable to cost the government in billions of dollars (both countries) just because they don't want to ride it out? You think its justifiable, that with mass alone, they get to have laws changed or influenced, when other people arent as fortunate? You think that its completely justifiable, that they do not abide by ANY LAWS whatsoever, just because their life is worse than yours?

This is absolutely unreasonable in the eyes of many Americans, why do they get so many amnenities, more so than the American citizens themselves? It's been proven that they've lied and cheated to get inside of our system, and now they're abusing it and costing the government billions. Go ahead, read the 1st link I posted. After that, read the 2nd.

QUOTE

Well, maybe Americans should just try and learn Spanish just like how the illegals learned English. They went through it.

Illegals? Learning English? You might wanna run that by me again? No matter where I go, I've talked to people that are heavily into the Hispanic population and the sterotype is that, they refuse to learn English. It's for the most part, TRUE. The reason why THEY should learn English, and not the other way around (in which our business have already tailored towards Spanish speaking people) is because THEY came into OUR country. English is the most spoken language and is the most standard language spoken in businesses everywhere. That is why they should learn English.

Wherever this dream world is, I wanna be a part of it.

QUOTE

Also, the illegals are dedicated to their job where most teenage Americas are lazy.

WRONG. Teenage Americans nowadays are working harder than ever to find jobs they can do, because illegals are holding the jobs they can do. In states such as California, AZ, NM, Florida and such, you cannot go into a fast food joint and expect to be hired over an illegal. In fact, I went to KFC a few weeks ago and only ONE PERSON there knew English and I had to walk off, because they didn't know how to operate the $ register and the one person that did know, was busy w/ something else, and did not open the register itself.

QUOTE

Everyone has planted their seed in America, that's why it's so diverse. Didn't the Asians, Middle Easterners, and Europeans all seeded?

No. That is because of the tough immigration laws that the US enforces. It's tough because they have to balance out how many come into this country, but GUESS WHAT, Illegals are completely ruining it for everybody by STEALING their way into the country. With the population change so drastic, they can't bring in any more people.

If you check out the US Census (google it), Asians and Middle-Eastern folks don't even get past the double digits. That is because they had to face tough immigration laws and come over here the RIGHT WAY just like every other legal immigrant in the US.

QUOTE

By the way, what is a regular person to you?

When I talk about regular persons, I'm speaking of the regular working class Americans that do not have a specialized skill such as IT, Network Admin, Carpetner, Plumber, etc. Americans that choose to work in an industry, such as Retail, or Customer Service. These are your everyday working class people.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 20, 2006, 08:06:00 PM

my grandmother immigrated here and became a citizen the "right" way, and she is very opposed to illegals (especially the ones who refuse to learn english) however we both feel that the solution (and ive said it in this thread) is to loosen immigration laws and allows the illegals to become legal

this still leave the "regualr people" seeking regualr jobs (read: unskilled workers) in the dust because it doesnt remove the immigrants from the country

but the truth is, there will always be high competition for those kinds of jobs for the simple fact that anyone can perform them, and i feel immigrants are just a scapegoat, if immigration ceased, it would be high school students taking everyones job, or college dropouts, or the elderly, lol

maybe its just a regional thing, but around here there are trade schools that will pratically pay you to learn to be an electrician or a plumber, an immirant who cant speak english cant take advantage of these opportunities, so whats stopping all the english speaking americans from learning a skill that will put them in a job that an immigrant cant "steal"

its a colective, national laziness, people want things handed to them on a platter rather than go out and get it for themselves

i can respect the immigrants for that, leaving the homeland, going into another country (risking be arrested or even shot along the way) takign ti on themselves to make a better life for themselves and their family, more than you can say about the average "regular american" thats why i say let them be legal

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 20, 2006, 10:13:00 PM

QUOTE

if immigration ceased, it would be high school students taking everyones job, or college dropouts, or the elderly, lol

-High school students sounds like a good idea because they need to learn responsibility and they need to be given more options in jobs. Since a lot of teenagers are only looking for spending money, this makes the economy a little better.
.
-College dropouts owe a lot of money, most likely, and it's not such a bad idea that they go to work and pay off their debt and give back to the government or whatever institution lended them the money.

-Elderly need money too, and most of them can only work very specific jobs. It's a good idea to hire them for simple jobs such as call centers.

In the right states though, Hispanics OWN Retail, Government Agencies (such as the DMV, DES), Call Centers, Food Service. True, the competition will always be there, but there would have been less to deal with.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 21, 2006, 04:03:00 PM

QUOTE(shuyin131 @ Apr 21 2006, 12:20 AM)

Well here's the problem with making them legal. If they are given amnesty, they will become legal and access services that were previously unavailable to them and cause a much bigger deficit than they already have before. It's like this. They make low-incomes, but they use services that cost more than they make. While they do pay more taxes if they become legal, (in thier figures, they say it goes from 4200 to 6900) the cost of services also goes up because they're able to sign on to them w/o fear of the government.

I think that the best option, is to leave them as they are, and work harder on enforcing the borders. This way we don't have any more people trying to take advantage of the fact that some states won't do anything to illegals because it has become too dependant on them.
-High school students sounds like a good idea because they need to learn responsibility and they need to be given more options in jobs. Since a lot of teenagers are only looking for spending money, this makes the economy a little better.
.
-College dropouts owe a lot of money, most likely, and it's not such a bad idea that they go to work and pay off their debt and give back to the government or whatever institution lended them the money.

-Elderly need money too, and most of them can only work very specific jobs. It's a good idea to hire them for simple jobs such as call centers.

In the right states though, Hispanics OWN Retail, Government Agencies (such as the DMV, DES), Call Centers, Food Service. True, the competition will always be there, but there would have been less to deal with.

We have soaring national debt because:

# 1) We are paying for a BS war, when Clinton left office there was surplus Bush has managed to turn surplus of $ 100 B to $ 400 B deficit.

# 2) Tax breaks to wealthiest 1% of US. These are the individuals you should be worried about paying taxes not poor, that get all that money back anyway.

# 3) We absorb 30 - 40 % off chinese domestic product yet they dont buy a thing from US.

# 4) You cant find many electronics devices not made in ASIA on US shelves.

DUDE, the vast majority of your last post was simply "racist" propaganda. If you or anyone else believes you should drop out of college move to Mexico or N. Mexico (Canada). Which is part of the problem in US.

I have multiple college degrees and I am not worried about a Mexican taking my job, As a matter of fact dont let me hit powerball, I will import several mexicans to take the jobs of the DUMB then I can get rich off of their labor like the real villians of this issue.

This is class warfare nothing more nothing less.

we buy more than we sell.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 21, 2006, 04:42:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 21 2006, 06:10 PM)

# 2) Tax breaks to wealthiest 1% of US. These are the individuals you should be worried about paying taxes not poor, that get all that money back anyway.

My father is trying to get into the tax business, and I was wondering if you guys had sources for this. He says no, but he has no sources.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 21, 2006, 04:48:00 PM

as far as tax breaks benefitting the wealthy the most, i feel its only fair, in sheer dollar amounts, they pay by far the most taxes

you have to look at it as a matter of percentage, a 10% break to someone who pays 100 dollars will be quite a bit more than a 10% break to someone who pays 10 dollars

and about people who lie/cheat on their taxes, im not considering them, as the poor are just as capable of cheating

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on April 21, 2006, 05:28:00 PM

QUOTE

s far as tax breaks benefitting the wealthy the most, i feel its only fair, in sheer dollar amounts, they pay by far the most taxes

you have to look at it as a matter of percentage, a 10% break to someone who pays 100 dollars will be quite a bit more than a 10% break to someone who pays 10 dollars

Right...but your still thinking about this in the wrong way....

There are 6 different tax brackets...ranging anywhere from 10% to 35% and the percentage increases with greater income brackets....

The top 1% are paying 35% federal income tax.
Bush did grant them substantial tax cuts...but they were already paying a disproporitately high tax rate.
They werent just paying more taxes because they were making more money....they actually have to pay a higher percentage. The Bush tax cuts are also aimed at giving tax breaks to people spending money.

Bush is responsible for all of your real estate agents driving Hummers.(It was actually a mistake, they were supposed to be giving businesses a tax break on purchasing work vehicles...but because H2's had a high curb weight they were technically classified in the same bracket as a "work vehicle" and got the real estate agencies huge tax cuts). He is also responsible for lowering taxation on investment holdings. He didnt just cut the taxes for people in the top bracket...he actually gave them more deductible options...which greatly benefitted them.

So...yes rich people got huge tax breaks...but they were already paying much, much higher taxes than you or I percentage wise...and then considering what you are taking a percentage of....it was a massive amount of money.

***The funny thing****
Flat tax. Proposed flat tax rates seem rational...and they are...but they dont "help the poor man"...they help the rich man. The flat tax rate proposed by Steve Forbes for example suggested a flat tax of 17% with fairly limited deductions.

Now if the rich 1% are already paying 35%(even though they get huge breaks) why would they complain about a simply 17%? They wouldnt....it wouldnt hurt them....hell it would probably help them...

The people who would get screwed? Anyone who makes less than roughly $50,000. They would see their tax rate increase.

Hope this all helps

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 21, 2006, 06:05:00 PM

wow i didn't know all this tax discussion came out. Anyways, I wanted to make clear that yes we do have a national debt, but the cost of illegals from the CIS was calculated for the very purpose of finding out how much illegals are costing us, excluding every other thing that put the nation into debt.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 21, 2006, 06:16:00 PM

topics here take on a life of their own, look back a page or two and youll find "a question for knowledgable christians" that topic became a discussion of modern alchemy (nuclear gold synthesis) and think that led to our big physics force vs momentum discussion, lol

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 21, 2006, 06:32:00 PM

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 21 2006, 06:55 PM)

and about people who lie/cheat on their taxes, im not considering them, as the poor are just as capable of cheating

The 'poor' don't have to cheat. They get all of their taxes back. That is why there is not a flat tax. Because it would hurt the poor too much. Instead of getting money back they would be paying the money they don't have.

Edit: Read this after I posted. I obviously, concur.

QUOTE

***The funny thing****
Flat tax. Proposed flat tax rates seem rational...and they are...but they dont "help the poor man"...they help the rich man. The flat tax rate proposed by Steve Forbes for example suggested a flat tax of 17% with fairly limited deductions.

Now if the rich 1% are already paying 35%(even though they get huge breaks) why would they complain about a simply 17%? They wouldnt....it wouldnt hurt them....hell it would probably help them...

The people who would get screwed? Anyone who makes less than roughly $50,000. They would see their tax rate increase.

Hope this all helps

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 21, 2006, 07:15:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 21 2006, 08:39 PM)

Corporate america benifits most from governmental welfare. Why does the industrial military complex need your tax money.

This is merely a sign of the times same old "Hitler" bullsh*t, blame everyone except the man in the mirror. Then create a hostile environment towards group "x" to justify there dehuminization.

Most "whoever" if they work pay payroll tax. Iraqis the benefit of 5 billion/month US tax revenue DO NOT pay US taxes.

How much do the IRAQI's Afghanis, Israelis cost/contribute to the american debt?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 21, 2006, 08:43:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 21 2006, 09:20 PM)

Ummmm....its called charity....
its when you do something for someone to be nice, and dont expect anything in return...look into it

another thing the wealthy do of than the poor, lol (even on an international scale)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 06:04:00 AM

QUOTE

The raids resulted in the arrests of seven managers and 1,187 of the firm's illegal employees across 26 states.

http://www.cbsnews.c...in1523431.shtml

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 08:08:00 AM

As if the demonstrations weren't? Some of the outspoken illegals don't have a clue. They are mad at America cause we have laws, yet they want to escape their native land to come here. I am still pissed they don't wave American flags at their marches.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 22, 2006, 11:51:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 22 2006, 10:15 AM)

Now you sound like Pat Robertson or one of those other hookies.

Your entire post reads like a rehash from Lou Dobbs show.

Are you capable of independant thought?

Are you pissed that 4 amrerican soldiers died today?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 01:25:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 22 2006, 01:58 PM)

Now you sound like Pat Robertson or one of those other hookies.

Your entire post reads like a rehash from Lou Dobbs show.

I don't even know who Lou Dobbs is. I hate Pat Robertson. I only get 20 cable channels, and I hate watching the news. I don't mind reading about it. I have said other times it is dumb they don't wave American flags.

Maybe Lou Dobbs argued that marching was a demonstation of intimidation just as arresting over 1,000 people was, but I doubt it.

What I don't doubt though, is that you are a moron. Do you think before you post, or just look for posts to make dumb statements about. Maybe 1 of your many degrees is in unsubstantiated theory? Noone knows for sure as you won't tell anyone.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Hmmm....ok for a moment Im going to ignore your rampant obsession with nationalism....

They dont have a clue?
Most americans dont have a clue either....
I understand that this "immigration bill" wouldnt effect you directly....so lets move to something a bit closer to home.....

So what? Being a clueless American isn't illegal.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Who is the speaker of the house?
Who favors state rights over federal rights? Democrats or Republicans?
Why must you consider all applicants for a job despite race, sex, age, or disability?
What responsibilities does the vice-president have?
What is the official language of the USA?
How old do you have to be to be a US representitive?
How often would you be up for election if you were a US representitive?
When did we ratify the bill of rights? (before/after/during the ratifying of the US Constitution)
Does the Supreme Court rule on the legitimacy of Congressional Law....or does it simply uphold Congressional law?
Take this quiz....without google....lets see how you perform?

Again how does this relate? No Americans are required to know any of this information.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Second....
Do you believe that we should show illegal immigrants the same human respect as all people?
Do you believe that we should treat them like human beings....or do you not care?
They are entitled to the same rights as all people...basic inalienable human rights...as defined by the Constitution and its Amendments.
"We have laws here"....they arent upset that we have laws...or that we want to deport them....
They are upset because the new proposed laws are incredibly harsh....
According to some of the new proposed laws....if your a migrant farmworker who "forget" to get his paperwork in order...your a felon.
Whats the big deal about labeling them felons?
Welll that would make it nearly impossible for them to legally enter the country ever again.
It would automatically remove normal considerations(such as the welfare of their family)
It would also require that they are processed through our legal system....and thus would begin a long system of legal struggles and trials.....

Yes, illegal immigrants are human beings. They broke the law. The only illegal immigrants I believe we should show sympathy towards are the ones who's countrys treat them inhumanely. But, if that was the case then I believe America should do something about the way that country is run. Kind of like Iraq, I wouldn't be upset about any Iraqi illegals coming here for refuge if they went through the steps.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

So what if these protestors didnt wave american flags....they arent Americans...they are Mexicans....they dont have citizenship in the USA. They would like it....but you dont celebrate for a country that is treating you like shit.

If you want to be recognized as an American you should recognize America. They don't want to be Mexicans, they want to be Americans, and ask America for help. It is always 2 fold. You aren't gonna get American benefits in Mexico. Same goes for all the other immigrant groups that are keeping quiet, cause they know they are in the wrong.
Plus, I don't see too many illegals that are treated worse here than in their own country. There is a reason they all came here. Maybe we aren't treating them like shit.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on April 22, 2006, 04:15:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 08:29 AM)

I assume your talking about the immigration test . . .
really i dont understand what the big deal is about this test. You take a class, you study for it, you take the test. Honestly, I think its primary aim is to make sure you have an IQ over 100 (which is average). In reality my bet is that most people on this board could answer enough to immigrate anyways. Its really not that tough if your interested in politics. Even if your not, you could probably take an evening high school goverment refresher course in the evening for a semester and pass it with no problems.

Link to 100 Sample Questions
And if you really are that stupid here are the cliff notes

@Flat Tax
If I understand Forbes proposition correctly, everyone under a certain wage ( i think it was 50,000) would pay no taxes. Basically anyone that makes money would pay less in taxes. My biggest problem with it, is that it still does not address black market money.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 22, 2006, 04:44:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 02:29 PM)

What responsibilities does the vice-president have?

QUOTE

Fry: "Who are you people?"
Al Gore: "I'm Al Gore. And these are my vice presidential action rangers. A groupd of top-nerds whose sole duty is to prevent disruptions in the space-time continuum."
Fry: "I thought your sole duty was to cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate."
Al Gore: "That, and protect the space-time continuum. Read the Constitution."

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 22, 2006, 06:02:00 PM

I talked to my friend yesterday and was outraged. Also walking on my way home yesterday I also felt disturbed. I had found out through some of his family members that after the march thing that happened nationwide, Hispanics in general started feeling animosity towards other's in general and I heard that this black guy got jumped by 10 hispanic guys FOR NO REASON.

Another thing that made me feel disturbed was that there was this family that was hanging out in front of their house and as I walked by they suddenly went quiet and gave me weird looks. My skin is tan and sometimes can be mistaken for a Hispanic but many people can tell upclose that I'm not.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 07:11:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 06:50 PM)

The questions I listed were all in reference to the political structure of the USA.
Anyone discussing politics should at least have a vague understanding of how the US govt functions...
Now, if your just John Q Public...then by all means that information is unnecessary...but if your going to be arguing about politics I would consider some basic understanding of the US Constitution as vital.
And I believe we should show sympathy towards all human beings....
If their only crime is wanting to live in America....then the only difference between you and them is that you were luckily born on the right side of the border.
How can you be born into a crime?
They want to live in America
You want to live in America...
but you dont let them because they were born in a country with a weaker economy?

Looking at this from an economic perspective....
I would much rather be "giving jobs away" to immigrant who now live in the US than sending jobs off to a foreign country that will not contribute back to the American economy.

As you know you can't help everyone in the world. I am not saying I am not fortunate, I know I am. I have a beautiful wife, a healthy son, and I am a computer engineer that gets to play professional baseball for a living. I would love it if everyone in the world could have at least some of the things I hold dear. The simple fact of the matter is you can't. I don't mean to sound cold, but that is the way it is.

I played baseball in Mexico for a month. That doesn't make me an expert, but I know more than some "experts". Their president Fox does some dumb shit, but it seems to me the majority of people there are complacent. Economically, I do not see how they are better off hiding out in America. There has to be other motives other than money. I believe the motives are the lifestyle which Americans live. That being my presumption, waving Mexican flags doesn't make sense. That was my whole point. It has nothing to do with being patriotic.

The "some are clueless" coment was directed to Jorge Mujica, not every illegal. As many Mexicans I see that are legal, I can't imagine why it would be so difficult, to do it the right way. Many, many people are born to countries worse off than Mexico. Where do we stop?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 08:02:00 PM

^^^^
I hear where you are coming from. But, that only works on a micro scale. In the Macro scheme, you can't do that. You aren't saying teach them how to fish. You are saying give all of them some of the fish we have cause we have a lot. Teaching them to fish would be doing what I said in an earlier post. I think we are teaching the Iraqis how to fish. We could teach Mexico how to fish, but Fox doesn't want to learn. He is making too much money in other ways. I.E. getting his own fish.

America, cannot afford to give fish, healthcare, or wellfare to all of the people in the world. I read an article a long time ago mentioning the fact that we give tons of food to African nations. However, all of that food increases their lifespan, thereby, increasing their ability to breed. Thereby, increasing their population. So the next year we have to give more food, and on, etc. They do not have the environment to develop and maintain farmland. So, where does our charity end? What is the best economical solution for them? What is the best economical solution for us helping them? I gaurantee if Africa were below the US, Africans would be jumping borders. We have to end somewhere. It sucks, but that is life.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 22, 2006, 10:33:00 PM

Bro, I disagree with a lot of you are saying. Not on principle, on execution. (I have a feeling we are arguing different points) I am tired right now, I will go into it more tomorrow.

I do want to say, you are again, wrong in your assumptions. I am not rich, financially. So, I cannot donate dollar bills. But, I have given countless man-hours to community service. Not only in my community, but throughout the country. I play baseball, so I travel the country. I not only coach at free clinics, I go to schools and read books to the children, and explain the importance of health. Childhood problems such as: obesity, asthma, and diabetes are all rampant. I provide a little to the community at no return, other than feeling good about myself. I do not give money, because at this stage in my life my family needs the money tremendously. Minor league baseball players make almost no money at all. My 1st year playing, I made $850 a month before taxes. In my 7 year career, my understanding wife and I have acrued an enormous debt.

I don't make the rules I just play by them. All of the Mexicans can become legals, they just choose not to.

As vader said earlier, if becoming legal was easier, there would be no problems. <-I gave him a dancing banana on that statement.
And, as Jah said earler, if American laws were enforced, there would be no problems.<-Jah told me to run for president after my statement.

It isn't us vs. them. It is prioritizing. You are a great guy for wanting to help everyone. The intentions are fantastic. But, in reality, it isn't possible. Like in an E.R. you help the ones who need it most.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 23, 2006, 02:24:00 AM

I was watching the news earlier this afternoon and there were people protesting illegals. We then had some idiot teenagers wear bandanas over their faces, promoting anarchism, but also, promoting fairness for everyone. Yeah they were pretty worthless and had absolutely no point in being there. They were also all white.

But for the people who were really protesting against illegal's, there were a broad group of races, including Hispanic, who are basically sayng the same things some of us here are. They then had some Hispanic guys walk up to them and started saying how much America needs them, how important they are, and all this other BS while the protesters kept trying to push the 'what part of illegal don't you understand' point, but none of the Hispanics seemed like they wanted to listen b/c they felt they had a right to be in the US.

As I watched, I saw mostly everything that was discussed here, that were anti-illegal, but none of them mentioned the CIS.org studies, although, if they had, they would have put those protesting the protest in their place. I think that the more education the public gets about illegals, the more people that would be inclined to be anti-illegal.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Kira Yamoto on April 23, 2006, 03:13:00 AM

whoopsie

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 23, 2006, 03:21:00 AM

http://www.cnn.com/C....dobbs.tonight/

Look at the sidebar and check out the results of the vote. 96% people have said that GW Bush's comment on 'jobs that Americans won't do' was an insult to American people. This raises a question in my mind. Is this being said, only because we, non-labor workers do not know what it's like, to believe (or not to believe) that American citizens want or do not want these jobs? How do we know for sure these jobs are undesired? There has been no factual evidence to point to, that we don't desire them at all.

I believe, that this propganda was spread, only so that this instills the belief in illegals, that they are needed in America because Americans don't want to do their labor jobs. If you think about it, this is most likely spread, so that this supports employers who do hire illegals because of the tremendous profits, which in effect, boosts our economy in favor for richer people, and the government.

I also believe that this reform is only coming about, because the people are fed up with their quality of life, being affected and that they demand something be done about them. I think that George Bush doesnt want to cater to the middle class and lower, he wants to support the richer class and make things easier for them.

This is a huge problem for the Bush Admin and the Senate. They wan't to keep on profiting off of the illegals, but don't want to be paying for their living expenses and medical attention.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 23, 2006, 08:52:00 AM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 23 2006, 05:42 AM)

"A good example of the phenomenom your discussing is Ethiopia....always been sand...will always be sand...
Take the advice provided by Sam Kinison.....dont send them food....send fucking moving vans.....but send something.."

Ethiopia has its baron area's and nomads but you would be suprised how well off certain areas are. When the news focus's on Ethiopia you only see bad after bad, but a lot of good is happening there Pucksr. Don't take my word for it go and visit yourself.

Unfortantly propagnada is the only language "fools" understand. I was fortunate enough to have a brief visit to Ethiopia:

1) the oldest nation
2) the first Christian nation
3) the place where Jesus Christ grew up

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 23 2006, 05:42 AM)

"Our charity ends when every person in the world has equal oppurtunities for success"

the smartest thing you have said.

@CockSR
Charity = 310 Billion allocated by Congress, and now nearly 9 Billion/month? Of which we will never see again. Sounds like they should send the vans to IRAQ also COCKSR?

But of course that will not make sense to you until you hear someone on TV say it.

Sam Kinison, HUH....

LOL

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on April 23, 2006, 12:37:00 PM

QUOTE

Hang on....now i have to stop you....

1)Maybe....kinda depends on how your defining "oldest nation"....but i will grant you this point...since Im just arguing semantics
2) Now this is beginning to become confusing...do you mean it was founded as the first Christian nation(which would refute point number 1....or that it was the first nation to declare Christendom its official religion?)
Anyways....a quick google and I found several references to Armenia rather than Ethiopia as the first Christian nation. Shortly after the Armenian Christian state in 301 A.D. Rome declared itself a christian state under Constantine...when did Ethiopia become a "christian nation"?(I thought that the Roman 312 AD Christian state was the first...but Im willing to be wrong....I just strongly doubt the claim about Ethiopia)
3)Wrong....I dont know what sources you are using for this....but when i used to read the bible...it always referenced Egypt
Plus...I dont remember Josephus or any other historians discussing Ethiopia as the area that Jesus was raised in.....????

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on April 23, 2006, 02:28:00 PM

QUOTE(Alex548)

There are other ways to get on welfare that you seem to have forgotten. For example, the 300,000-500,000 us born children of illegal parents that arrive every year. The mothers then get to take in welfare, food stamps, education, Medicaid, etc without having been a legal resident for 18 years. Sweet deal.

there are also some problems with your interpretation welfare stats. One of which being that the majority of people in america are whites, so of course their are going to be more of them. To be more honest you should have adjusted it to population size, and taken a more recent survey. Oh but wait that would not have supported your claims

Hispanics made up abt 11% of the total population, whites 73% of the population.
Adjusted and keeping in mind that these are rough estimates that comes to about:
Hispanics: 3.0% of the hispanic population is on welfare
Whites: 1.1% of the white population is on welfare
Black: 6.6% of the black population is on welfare for those that are interested

to update it a bit lets take a study from the New york times 1998 (source):
Hispanics: 4.3% of the hispanic population is on welfare
Whites: 1.0% of the white population is on welfare
Black: 6.1% of the black population is on welfare for those that are interested
so from the period between 1992 and 1998 hispanic welfare recipients rose while white and black recipients fell.

so first yes the stats are shifting quickly. But, even after this adjustement is made it really has absolutely no relevance to this discussion as all of these race based welfare stats really dont mean much. If they wanted to make a statement they would do a study that showed which populations are more likely to take a handout based on educational level. This only shows that you were trying to incorrectly use these stats to make a racist generalization about white people being lazy.

###Ethiopia
I believe that Ethiopia claims to be the oldest christian nation. In the 1700 and 1800's europeans exploring the dark contentent discovered several christian tribes in Ethiopia that had remained untouched by the romans catholic church (kind of like the church of thomas in India). They appeared to be a line of christians that originated very early on in the history of the christian church. In the Ethiopia tradition, christ grew up there.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 23, 2006, 02:46:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 02:26 PM)

If your family was walking by a lake and you spotted a man drowning, would you spend a few minutes to make sure that no one wandered off, and that they all knew you would be right back....or would you jump in and try to save the drowning man?
Start thinking about everyone as equals...and you dont live in a Star Trek utopia...you can live in Boston....you just see the world differently....

I would without doubt or hesitation save that mans life. However that goes back to my point of Micro vs. Macro. In the grand scheme, it isn't as simple as saving a mans life. Countless man hours planning, and more has to go into "saving" a nation.

You forgot 2 variables in your 4 equations.
1st off they have to want to be saved. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees with American values.
2nd, would you rather help 50% of the world completely or help 100% of the world at only 50% capacity. Meaning noone really was fully helped.
These are decisions that need to be weighed and made.
Example:
You can save 3 boys locked in a car or save a man from drowning in a lake. I am gonna pick the man. Save him 100% and then go save the kids. That is what I mean with my E.R. statement. The ones who need it most, according to our government, are the ones who get the help. You cannot help everyone at the same time without neglecting something somewhere.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 23, 2006, 03:02:00 PM

QUOTE(damam @ Apr 23 2006, 04:35 PM)

out of curiosity - what do the illegals make in your area of the country.
I live in idaho-

IDAHO GIRLS are the "greatest." I used to work at INEEL, actually I may be returning to the lab next year. I used to live in IMA HO FALLS..

LOL

QUOTE(damam @ Apr 23 2006, 04:35 PM)

out of curiosity - what do the illegals make in your area of the country.
I live in idaho-

###Ethiopia
I believe that Ethiopia claims to be the oldest christian nation. In the 1700 and 1800's europeans exploring the dark contentent discovered several christian tribes in Ethiopia that had remained untouched by the romans catholic church (kind of like the church of thomas in India). They appeared to be a line of christians that originated very early on in the history of the christian church. In the Ethiopia tradition, christ grew up there.

Actually, Jesus Christ's great, great, great great grandfather was an Ethipoina, named JUDAH, and the WWII Ethiopian king was a descendant of King David.

Some say this is why ethipoia was never a gentile colony, like the rest of the continent. However they do have an ARAB problem.

P.S. Americans are lazy..

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on April 23, 2006, 03:54:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 10:22 AM)

This would not make it the oldest "christian" state....
A Christian state by definition means that the official religion of that State is Christianity....
If we are simply referring to Christians living in a state....then the complication grows...since the oldest Christian states would most likely exist around Jerusalem.

QUOTE(jha'dhur)

IDAHO GIRLS are the "greatest."

we finally found something that we can totally agree on

QUOTE

Actually, Jesus Christ's great, great, great great grandfather was an Ethipoina, named JUDAH, and the WWII Ethiopian king was a descendant of King David.

Only if your a member of this religion

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 23, 2006, 04:02:00 PM

Puck, the first thing I thought of when I read your post was how Africa has an AIDS problem, and does not want our help. They don't want our medicine. You are assuming the things we think are important are the same thing other people think are important.

I am not arguing "should", I am arguing "could". I think we should try, but I also think we can't try. The problems are too many, too big, and too deep. We have to pick and choose the ones we can help. We cannot help all, or all will fail.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 23, 2006, 04:53:00 PM

QUOTE(damam @ Apr 23 2006, 06:01 PM)

i think the arguement goes along the lines that the tribes were the states at the time. Since they were 100% christian it kinda makes them the official religion. All of the christian tribes found were in Ethiopia.

we finally found something that we can totally agree on
Only if your a member of this religion

I wish they would DNA test the Ethiopians, they believe the possess the Ark of the Covenat, I would love to see the DNA results compared with Israeli DNA genome sequence.

I wonder how the Ethiopian sequence compares to the S. African genome sequence which has a higher occurance of the "Jewish" genome than the modern "Israeli" (<-oxymoronic ??)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 23, 2006, 05:37:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 05:22 PM)

If we are simply referring to Christians living in a state....then the complication grows...since the oldest Christian states would most likely exist around Jerusalem.

What does proximity to Jerusalem have to do with anything. Christ wasnt born in Jerusalem. And from most accounts he detested the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 05:22 PM)

This would not make it the oldest "christian" state....
A Christian state by definition means that the official religion of that State is Christianity....

Is this your latest excercise in SEMANTICS.

QUOTE

According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, at the end of 2004, 76.2% of Israelis were Jews by religion, 16.1% were Muslims, 2.1% Christian, 1.6% Druze and the remaining 3.9% (including Russian immigrants and some Jews) were not classified by religion.

2.1 % as of 2004 were Christian. According to COCK Israel/Jerusalem isnt christiandom. SO what does proximity to JERUSALEM have to do with the discussion at hand?

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 05:22 PM)

This would not make it the oldest "christian" state....

Actually according to KJV bible nubia (called ethiopia by the greeks), is the very first nation before and after the flood. I have read some pretty good arguements that the garden of eden lie in old ethiopia. And what is now the middle east was once mostly ethiopia, and Africa/Saudi Arabia for that matter also.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 05:22 PM)

If we are simply referring to Christians living in a state....then the complication grows...since the oldest Christian states would most likely exist around Jerusalem.

Go look at a map Ethiopa is not that far relatively from Jerusalem, and given the above Jerusalem could have at one point been a city state of old nubia much as egypt was.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 23, 2006, 10:14:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 11:02 PM)

Im sorry....do we have a cure for AIDS??

We have cures for other diseases...and they do accept medicine that they know will cure disease....
But in several backwards countries there are still several misconceptions about STDs....and until we show up with the cure....they arent going to be very interested in preventive medicine.....

About helping.....
If we started opening the border between mexico and the US...what would happen?
We would have an initial flow of cheap labor....
The money would pour back into Mexico....at the expense of the American economy....
But my question....is it really that bad....
Do we all deserve to have the newest and finest things...while a disproportionately high percentage of mexicans go without?
Of course not....but you dont want to loose your plasma TV, or your xbox 360 so that some "Mexican" family can afford a better education, a house, and a better life...

Thats just selfish.....

You are totally lost. This isn't about AIDS. No, we don't have a cure. We do have plenty of medicine that helps. They do not want it. But, whatever, it's not relevant. You view the world as black and white. There is a lot of grey.

You think by opening our borders, I will lose my xbox360 and plasma tv? How is that related at all?

I say make it easier to become legal. Do NOT open our borders freely. EVER! We have national security issues to deal with. Illegals, should be made to become legal or get thrown out. Noone is saying the process is too hard. They are saying they just don't feel like doing it. That is not right. They don't pay taxes, they don't register to vote, and they steal free healthcare. Then, you want our government to give them the same rights as legals? How does that make sense? Legal immigrants have it worse, they have to pay for their healthcare. I am not saying ban immigrants, I am saying go through the process, and make them legal.

Do you really think Mexicans would know the difference between laws, if they were able to freely flow between the countries? Of course not, that is why they have to become legal immigrants. The worst that would happen would be that instead of a soup bowl effect we have a salad bowl effect of little Mexicos, where only Mexican laws are followed. Do you think without the initial education of American law, they would have a clue?

In these protests they were waving Mexican flags because they were in Mexico (in their mind). They say that land was Mexican land way before it was American land, and they had a right to be there. In the salad bowl areas, how bad do you think the propaganda would get?

You are an educated guy, but you are wrong in this case. You cannot save the world. To have Star Trek peace you would need a world power with a global plan, that all cultures agreed with. Good luck with your efforts. You can do it!

P.S. I don't own an xbox360 or a thin panel display.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 23, 2006, 11:02:00 PM

QUOTE

You think by opening our borders, I will lose my xbox360 and plasma tv? How is that related at all?

hes saying that your xbox360 and plasma tv is probably worth as much as the average mexican family makes in a year, why do we in america deserve to spend that much on entertainment when the rest of the world doenst have that much to live on?

QUOTE

In these protests they were waving Mexican flags because they were in Mexico (in their mind). They say that land was Mexican land way before it was American land

kindof ironic, the whole thing started with american settlers coming to texas then wanting to make it part of the US, which is what the mexicans are doing now (in wa way)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 24, 2006, 12:52:00 AM

damam:

A lot of what you posted can also be referred to a link I posted a few pages back which points to a study from the Center for Immigration Studies. Also I had posted something along the same lines, but unfortunately the thread has turned into a Ethiopia topic and no-one seems to care anymore lol. But yeah good stuff in pointing out how much illegals make, it's generally true over here too.

Making that kind of money, w/ a dual income househould (if they're a family) they'd do more than alright. In fact, they'd do better than most people. Also think about households headed by a legal (but full of illegals) who are here only interested in working and sending money back home. Those guys are making bank because the cost of living is so little.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 24, 2006, 03:49:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 23 2006, 11:02 PM)

Nevermind...Im not even going to respond to you anymore when related to historical facts...

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

I took you a while to pick that up from the gravity thread.

P.S.

Maybe you should make up another user/nick "CAT-A-HOLIC" priest that can "prove" me wrong.

LMAO.........

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 24, 2006, 05:53:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 23 2006, 10:21 PM)

I say make it easier to become legal. Do NOT open our borders freely. EVER! We have national security issues to deal with.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 23 2006, 10:21 PM)

They don't pay taxes, they don't register to vote, and they steal free healthcare.

Most legals dont vote the largest recent turnout didnt even draw half of eligible voters.

Employers that dont pay taxes on undocumented workers should be imprisoned, simple, Oops did I say that send a greedy fat white guy to jail for "breaking the law", no wonder senate held up that bill.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 23 2006, 10:21 PM)

You are an educated guy, but you are wrong in this case. You cannot save the world. To have Star Trek peace you would need a world power with a global plan, that all cultures agreed with. Good luck with your efforts. You can do it!

CockSR educated

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 24, 2006, 07:55:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 24 2006, 03:12 AM)

What the hell are you talking about......
Yeah I heard about them turning down all the food and medicine we send? Thats complete crap....
Sometimes it might get stuck in red tape....and sometimes we might not be able to get it to the people....or they might be afraid of it....
But I have yet to hear about anyone in a 3rd world country saying "No, Im sick, and I know your medicine will cure me....but I just dont want it"

then google Africa and AIDS. Here is one link: http://www.globaliss...eAfricanLeaders

QUOTE

1. Do you know what it means to have "open borders"? It means that anyone who bothers to go get a passport can cross over. It means that you dont have to get a greencard to work in this country. Sounds crazy? We have open borders with Canada....

No we don't. Your full of crap. Do you even know what you are talking about. We have trhe same rules for Canada and Mexico as well as the Carribean. They are all changing right now, to make it more difficult because of 9/11. As it should. My best friends wife is Canadian and should couldn't get a job for over a year. It took her that long to get a Visa and she was married to a U.S. citizen. What the hell are you talking about?

QUOTE

2. "No one is saying it is too hard"...actually they are...your misunderstanding of this issue seems to be that illegal aliens are just too lazy to get citizenship. WRONG. They lack the financial pull, the unique job skills, and the ability to get a green card. Do you honestly think anyone would risk dying in the desert or the back of a truck if it was simply a matter of going to the "DMV"? These people are risking their lives to get jobs in the USA with questionable futures(they could be deported at any time)....are you kidding me....it is incredibly hard and probably "too hard"

http://mexico.usemba...ico/evisas.html
doesn't seem too expensive to me. Maybe they could save up, like all the legal immigrants did.
"They can be deported at any time" HAHAHAHA

QUOTE

3. They do pay taxes...you cannot purchase anything in my state without paying sales tax. Property tax? Im sorry dont these people live just like you and me? Sure, some of them live in cars....but then again a legal citizen is free to do the same thing if he wants/needs to....Final tax...income tax....too bad most illegal immigrants live at or below the poverty line...and wouldnt be required to pay income tax

There are more taxes than that, and legal immigrants pay them.

QUOTE

4. Take advantage of our healthcare?
So now your saying that we shouldnt help people?
Its not like they are abusing the system....they are in a constant fear of deportation. They are only seeking the minimum amount of medical attention....
Werent we talking about giving medical aid to people earlier if they want it?

Aid and free healthcare are different. Again, legals have to do it. I do not feel illegals should get more benefits than legals. Aid helps a nation, region, or group. Free healthcare helps an individual.

QUOTE

5. "They dont register to vote"-neither do most of the citizens of this country...besides...why is this an issue...voting is something you should want to do...

Voting is something you MUST do if you want the right to complain about policies. If you don't vote then you don't deserve the right to bitch.

QUOTE

6. "Give them the same rights as legals"-I want to give them the same rights as legals...I want to give them the same RIGHTS. I do not want to give them the same privelages. Get that through your head....I want to give them the same rights...not the same privelages.

Life, Liberty, and the persuit of happiness right? "Illegals" don't deserve that. Illegal isn't a proper noun. It means something. Google that.

QUOTE

The main argument against open borders with Mexico is that it will weaken the economy of the US. The wages of all Americans would drop, because of the influx of cheap labor. That would mean that you might have to forgo some luxuries...but it would be a fair trade...since many people would now be able to live better lives.
Im sorry...but wha????????
What major differences do you think exist between Mexican laws and American laws?
Apparently it wasn't a big deal...since Texas went from Mexico->Independent Country->State of the USA rather smoothly...yet each time they had independent laws and governments...
American citizens are allowed to travel into Mexico all of the time....why? They dont know the laws either...
You dont have to become a legal immigrant to visit the US from Mexico. We get tourists all of the time from Mexico. They dont have to become "legal immigrants". This is just completely made up...quit doing that

It isnt just law, it is also culture. But, one law is piracy. And, one cultural difference is the way they shit. If you need more let me know.

QUOTE

If i had to bet money...I would say that you are either a Christian or raised Christian....
Only Christians have this kind of view in my experience....selective principles....
Buddhists, Daoists, Confusists, Muslims, Atheists.........they all make moral statements and then apply them to everything...Kantian logic and all.....
Christians(or those raised Christian) have this unique ability to seperate moral beliefs. You think you should help people...but if the situation is too complicated(a view your normally determine with no actual evidence) you should just avoid it. There have been some christians who ignored this idiocy. Mother Theresa once drove a school bus into the middle of a war zone to save some mentally handicapped children....because it was the right thing to do....but most of you so-called Christians make more excuses than any other theological position could even imagine...

I am an agnostic Jew. I've only mentioned that about 20 times. Either you have a bad memory or your education comes from google and you don't have to retain anything. If I had to bet money I would bet you still live a sheltered life (Maybe even still live at home or in a dorm). I would bet you don't have many difficult decisions to make. I feel that way because you only deal in the hypothetical world. Apply some of your theories in the real world. See what happens.

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Apr 24 2006, 08:00 AM)

Actually, the "terrorist" that have been apprehended were caught at US/Canadian border.

The vast amount of marijuana smuggled into US is from Canada, while other drugs come from South.

It seems we need a Canadian fence also.
Most legals dont vote the largest recent turnout didnt even draw half of eligible voters.

Employers that dont pay taxes on undocumented workers should be imprisoned, simple, Oops did I say that send a greedy fat white guy to jail for "breaking the law", no wonder senate held up that bill.
CockSR educated

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you my long-lost brother? I like you more and more, everytime I read your posts. At 1st I thought other-wise but you have changed my ways, grasshopper. We may disagree on some stuff but at least you make sense.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 24, 2006, 10:20:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 24 2006, 10:54 AM)

1. did u read your links? the one on AIDS....the only thing the africans turned down was a large loan that would pay for american drugs....
plus...those drugs don't cure AIDS
WHAT'S YOUR POINT??

My point is people deny our help. That it isn't alsways wanted. Sometimes pride gets in the way.

QUOTE

2. if you think it is as easy for a migrant worker from mexico to get a work visa as a canadian...then your a fool. its more than just a dollar amount...it is their level of education and job skills. they don't jump the fence just to save a buck...they do it because they must

3. sorry about the christian shot...currently I'm living in lubbock and the level of moral hypocrisy in the bible belt is absurd....my apologies to everuone

4. the comment about greencars was a little confusing. mexicans have a difficult time getting work visas. but I will generally say that my comment was incorrect

Thank you.

QUOTE

5. if u think their is a vast cultural difference between mexicans and texans(for example)...u r just wrong...there r more differences between texan and new yorkers....lol

I lived in Phoenix, until 2 weeks ago. It is a little Mexico as well. Lubbock isn't the only place. Besides that I worked in Mexico for a month, playing baseball, travelling the country. Texas is like Mexico but it isn't Mexico. I will reitterate, I am not an expert, but I have seen at least some things.

Now, the Mexicans I have met in AZ are awesome people. Legal or not, they work hard and are extremely friendly. My roommate(also American) in Mexico and I would always joke with eachother saying "if we had to play south of the USA, we were glad that it was in Mexico." The only Mexicans I have ever met that I didn't like were the rich ones. The owner of my team in Mexico for example. You wouldn't believe the corruption. Reading and experiencing are different matters. I had read and talked with people about it, but experiencing it is a whole different aspect I never imagined.

Texans and New Yorkers are dfferent, that's within our own country. Because of that, a lot of laws that get passed, and other things usully angers a large group of people and makes another happy. That is a flaw of Democracy. Everyone knows though, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Now apply that globally. Many cultures have many different ideas. You cannot apply a single positive thought throughout. It would be nice though. That is my point with the voting also. Illegals can't vote so they will always be upset with government but never be able to do anything about it.

QUOTE

sorry bout calling u a fundie christian throwingks....but I have read your posts...and I remembered u had started the the jesus=jewish thread. that's why I included the provision(raised christian).
I would love to hear about the cultural differences...because I currently live in an ex-mexican state with a high hispanic population...so I think I understand the culture more than you. but please...I want to see how racist this can become

I think it was in that thread that damam asked me and I answered her.

Real minor differences are something as simple as the way we feell about cleanliness. We are extreme mind you, but there are some things I just have trouble seeing past. There the sewage system isn't strong enough for toilet paper. So, they throw their shitty TP in the wastebasket in the stall. Guess what they do if there is no wastebasket? Yep, right on the floor. I have seen in America, with some of our import players, where one guy took a shit right in the middle of the living room floor. I am not trying to make a negative stereotype I am simply saying there are differences that should be learned to be a US citizen. That is the purpose of the process. How else would they know, you can flush TP? That is only minor though. I am not saying it has anything to do with race, only culture. The way people are brought up. Every culture is different that is why America has problems. Not everyone agrees with ideals.

Now, I would love to fix their water problems and sewage problems for them. That is entirely too big of a project to merit worth. Our efforts would be more beneficial in other avenues. You cannot go save the world without a plan. With that plan you have to prioritize. Their water and sewage is low on the totem pole. How about getting President Fox to work with or DEA in drug matters like the Columbian government does. He makes too much drug money so he won't. He is looking out for his best interest. Drugs make Mexico a lot of money. Now to fix them, what would you do? I am literally asking you. Because it seems to me like you want to take each issue and fix them all. In our different views, I don't believe that can or will ever be done.

QUOTE

but please...I want to see how racist this can become

Are you saying I am racist? I never concidered myself one, but if you have some insight for me, let me know, cause I think I am pretty accepting. Hell, I even went to a predominantly black college for 2 years. Norfolk State Uniersity.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on April 25, 2006, 10:30:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 25 2006, 11:00 PM)

I did...the officers involved were acquitted...thats what sparked the LA riots...
Also, using force was never a problem in the Rodney King incident...the question was over the use of excessive force....Rodney King did require force be used against him...no question

but im sure you knew that........

QUOTE

Unlike the Simi Valley jury, the federal jury was racially mixed. Although the defense made a considerable effort to exclude African-Americans, two blacks were seated as jurors. One of the two, Marian Escobel ("Juror No. 7), sent an early signal of the difficulty she would cause the defense when she was overheard strongly criticizing the defense's treatment of other potential black jurors.

Should have put this in the Race Card thread because they definately put this one on the "card"

QUOTE

The second trial of Stacey Koon, Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, and Theodore Briseno began on February 25, 1993 in the Los Angeles courtroom of District Judge John G. Davies. The Department of Justice assembled a formidable team of four prosecutors to try the closely watched case. Lead prosecutor on the team was thirty-four-year old Steven Clymer, considered the best trial lawyer in the U. S. Attorney's office in Los Angeles.

QUOTE

Judge Davies decided to postpone the announcement of the verdict until 7 A.M. the next morning to minimize the danger of rioting. Court clerk Jim Holmes read the verdict. The jury found two of the officers, Koon and Powell, guilty. They acquitted Officers Wind and Briseno. Prosecutors declared a victory. "This verdict provides justice" declared Justice Department Attorney Barry Kowalski. The streets of Los Angeles remained quiet.

Certain Whites roughing up coloreds and getting away with it is nothing new, neither is the complacency and indifference of people like you COCK.

But I am sure you already new this, also.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 26, 2006, 03:13:00 AM

Ok COCKsr, you obviously did not read the article. When I said violent, that was used to mean that they were being rough with her, not exactly violence as in complete inhumane mistreatment. Go and read the article cock.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 26, 2006, 09:12:00 AM

Puck, can you break down for me what Mexican illegals are looking for. In your opinion the reason for the migration. I was trying to look back and I couldn't find it. There are too many pages.

I thought you said:
1. Help everyone no matter what, that needs help.
2. Mexicans need our help.

I am confused what they need help with, that justifies breaking our laws.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 26, 2006, 10:49:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 26 2006, 08:40 AM)

ya missed it....

my point....we don't use force(any level of force) unless the actions of the individual warrant the need for force....

you claimed that force is used on "repeat offenders"....
I was explaining the fallacy of this statement.....

I mentioned Rodney King because he was a case of someone who justified the use of force(even if the force used was excessive)......

I mentioned rodney king because I knew that it would produce an emotional response, I wanted to see how many of you would knee-jerk react to my statement and not actually take the time to understand my statement.

both you and jha'duh proved that you discuss these topics with a strong emotional bias. jha'duh was a much better example. learn to calm down and actually critically consider ideas without clouding your thought with preconceived emotional notions.

Cock, all of your posts read the same. You should try getting a life instead of imposing your "opinions" on the entire internet.

You have a degree in your opinion, and are regularly shown to be incorrect on factual matters (like Math, scientific theory, or finance). THe REAGANOMICS RANT was hilarious.

In the short time I have been here I cant recall anything that you have been correct about other than your opinion.

This dialogue between you and the married "proffessional" basebal player/engineer/mogul/nurse is so amusing I couldnt hesitate to jump in.

@Throwing K's your posts have 18 Y.O, written all over them, but maybe I read into peoples words to much. But the only people that can hold as many jobs as you do are illegal immigrants.
LOL

But the blind leading the deaf should be the name of this thread.

P.S.
You dont as usual have a valid point, but I guess an unbiased jury of their peers was wrong and you are correct.

@shuyin131 Be careful, Cock will begin to think you are XMEDIA and start stalking your posts and report you to his domestic partner (LORDGAYDER169)

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 26, 2006, 11:28:00 AM

haha, I'm 27. Baseball is my job, and it's a way to grow old. Not a way to grow up.

My point is. Illegal immigrants should be more respectful if they want handouts. Money is not a reason to flee your native land. If you disagree let me know why.

Puck disagrees cause he thinks everyone is entitled to what Americans have, and we should just give it to them. I disagree with Puck.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 26, 2006, 02:03:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 26 2006, 11:35 AM)

Nothing personal, your posts just read like you are young minded. Cock Sucker will be cock, there is no hope for him.

Funny I saw the news flash of the internet loser/loner that was going to eat the little girl and I was waiting on them to say Lubbock, Tx. But it was Oklahoma, but they described CockSr to a T.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 26, 2006, 03:02:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 26 2006, 02:36 PM)

Wow....
That was inappropriate....

Were you just accusing throwinKS of being childish?
I have yet to see more childish behavior than the inbred club(Xmedia, Irish, jha'duh, and occasionally their buddy bluedeath).
If your insults were creative, or particularly poignant...I wouldnt really complain....but it seems more like you guys just randomly attempt an insult. They dont even have to make sense....as long as the comment remains derogatory...your happy.

Forget childish...when I was a kid we developed the ability to use applicable insults in a demeaning manor. You all are just randomly throwing crap like an angry monkey at a zoo. This recent little bit of theater is just so that you can screw up the thread....
I didnt say anyone was wrong...but then again...this probably stems from your inability to read people's posts.
Rodney King was a victim of racial discrimination....and this was determined by an "unbiased" jury of his peers.
The officers involved were guilty of racial discrimination because they used "Excessive force" when subduing Rodney King.
The officers were acquitted of assault...once again by a jury of their peers.
At no point did I disagree with any legal proceedings.....

But...hey...then again...Im sure you cant even tell me what point im trying to make.....
But its obviously wrong...and thats all you can say....

You should really find a hobby, your imaginary life on the internet is very socially undevelopmental.

Look in the mirror and ask yourself who appointed you the PNR Forum police. Over the last several months I have watched you jump the sh*t of whoever doesn't agree with you or call you on your B.S.

Who is the next victim of your unwanted attention (post stalking) for having dissimilar views/opinions.

But its them right (X, jha, Blue, Heet, the list goes on) and not you CockSR.

SEEK proffesional help.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on April 26, 2006, 04:29:00 PM

@ COCKsr

Um, there comes a point when we're sick and tired of dealing w/ the way you are so of course, I don't take anything you say as serious anymore. When you called me a moron, that was crossing the line. I can take a difference of opinion, but what pisses me off is when people fail to clarify what the person is saying before they flame them and call them all sorts of unecessary insults. As a result of said insult, you want to play a game? I'll play the game right with you.

Be serious, intelligent, or whatnot, and I'll do my best to give you the same.

@ PhatIrishBastard

LOL Xmedia. From what I gather it's some random guy who keeps coming back as another user? What is it about this guy???

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Chook on April 27, 2006, 01:36:00 AM

@Throwingks
Hey my grandfather is really into baseball, he used to scout for several teams and was a coach at UNLV for a while. He got inducted into the Southern Nevada hall of fame two years ago. Might run in the same circles as him

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 27, 2006, 06:11:00 AM

What was his area (city, state, etc.)? Most scouts don't talk to the players, only about them.

I am going to be playing in Reno, NV starting the end to mid-May.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 27, 2006, 10:16:00 AM

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 27 2006, 07:06 AM)

"I am arrogant and loud.....but that doesnt detract from the fact that I am normally correct"

To be honest I don't mind listening to your self rightous crap whether you are right or wrong. You described your self as arrogant which is correct and unfortunatly for you, a fact. You are not loud and you are normally incorrect.

Get over yourself, if you wanna change the world you ain't gonna start a revolution in here for sure. Maybe you should stick to subjects you have some first hand experience in like.....sex.

LOL

You must be xmedia also...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Chook on April 27, 2006, 11:25:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 27 2006, 07:18 AM)

What was his area (city, state, etc.)? Most scouts don't talk to the players, only about them.

I am going to be playing in Reno, NV starting the end to mid-May.

Think he usually searches out californa schools, i'll try to inquire with him

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 28, 2006, 07:54:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 27 2006, 10:22 PM)

You havent heard me speak...Im very loud....
But....still...Im normally right...
At least I have a better track record than the Phat/X/Blue camp....
LOL///
Not trying to change the world...but i do like to mock idiots

You are still a HOKIE and most users realize that, but only choose to whisper it behind your back. The few that do "camp" you stalk and harass like some fat girl.

But you are entertaining

continue...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 28, 2006, 08:07:00 AM

QUOTE(shuyin131 @ Apr 26 2006, 04:36 PM)

@ PhatIrishBastard
LOL Xmedia. From what I gather it's some random guy who keeps coming back as another user? What is it about this guy???

@shuyin131

xmedia was one user that COCK began to post stalk and harass. xmedia just happens to be an old military buddy of mine that is out of the country at the moment.

They originally butted heads over sick catholic fracks that molest little boys, that COCK was defending.

But he got Banned for telling HSDEMONZ, LORDVADER, and XOMBE where to stick his cack.

But actually joke was on them because he posted behind ipmask so they only reset his post count.

Individuals take this BS forum WAY to SERIOUS

look up PUCKSR on GOOGLE, you will see what kind of individual he is in his own words.

He was kicked off some evolution/intelligent design forum for being an inmature cack, and he is up to his old tricks.

All he does is post, post, and post his ideology over the internet.

Ignorance is BLISS

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on April 28, 2006, 12:10:00 PM

QUOTE

xmedia was one user that COCK began to post stalk and harass. xmedia just happens to be an old military buddy of mine that is out of the country at the moment.

QUOTE

But he got Banned for telling HSDEMONZ, LORDVADER, and XOMBE where to stick his cack.

xmedia was banned because he couldnt keep political discussions in the political forums, he constantly spammed other areas of the site insulting puck and others

QUOTE

Individuals take this BS forum WAY to SERIOUS

yeah, xmedia sure did

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 28, 2006, 01:45:00 PM

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 28 2006, 12:17 PM)

funny story is, xmedia PMd several head mods asking what to do about puck, each time he was told to ignore him and stop replying to his threads and posts, but xmedia never did this, xmodeia was as much a "post stalker" of puck as vice versa
xmedia was banned because he couldnt keep political discussions in the political forums, he constantly spammed other areas of the site insulting puck and others
yeah, xmedia sure did

Is there any specific reason why you S*CK PUCK C*CK so steadily??

Really??

One piss ant isnt far from the other, are you guys on honeymoon.

LOL

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 28, 2006, 02:21:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 28 2006, 04:25 PM)

Anyone else have an opinion on immigrant rights?

Just want to clarify, ILLEGAL immigrant rights.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on April 28, 2006, 03:16:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 28 2006, 02:25 PM)

Yeah...where is a good place to go on a gay honeymoon....

PhatIrish and Xmedia....in the military together....then they got a place together....lived together...now all PhatIrish does is talk about Xmedia....
Sounds a lot like the sequel to "Brokeback Mountain"......
I know you miss him Irish...but dont worry...he will be back in your arms soon....

Ok....I think Ive flamed too much....
Back to the pseudo-political.....

Anyone else have an opinion on immigrant rights?

I really wish you were half as smart as you thought you were.

But hey flame on, the new guys are seeing you for what you are.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 28, 2006, 08:06:00 PM

QUOTE

Pro-immigration activists say a national boycott and marches planned for May 1 will flood U.S. streets with millions of Latinos to demand amnesty for illegal immigrants and shake the ground under Congress as it debates reform.

QUOTE

"There will be 2 to 3 million people hitting the streets in Los Angeles alone. We're going to close down Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Tucson, Phoenix, Fresno," said Jorge Rodriguez, a union official who helped organize earlier rallies credited with rattling Congress as it debates the issue.

QUOTE

They vow that America's major cities will grind to a halt and its economy will stagger as Latinos walk off their jobs and skip school.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Chook on April 28, 2006, 10:03:00 PM

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Apr 28 2006, 09:14 AM)

xmedia just happens to be an old military buddy of mine that is out of the country at the moment.

Ex-military, used to lived together, couldn't follow the don't ask don't tell policy?
At least you didn't end up in the burn victim ward at BAMC

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: biggieandmoe on April 29, 2006, 01:44:00 AM

Isn't everyone living in the United States citizen and non-citizen given the same rights under the bill of rights? Don't say they are illegal because you are either a citizen or non-citizen. There should be no exceptions. It's like how someone was saying that it's better to teach a person how to fish instead of leaving him to starve. My opinion and agreeing with some other members. Also, May 1st is the National Latino Walk-Out Day. They are not going to work, not going to buy anything, and not going to school.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 29, 2006, 06:16:00 AM

^^^
Sure I can, I am not one of those thoughtless dumbasses you like to debate with, cause its easy for you.

1. I think they have a "right" to a fair trial. If they lose, send their ass home.

2. I also believe they shouldn't get 100% free covered healthcare. I don't agree with give 50% healthcare to everyone. I believe in giving 100% to the most needy (not deserving, needy). That is what we do, that is why they get free health care when legals, who have insurance bills every month and pay a co-pay, have to sit and wait for their treatment for their not-so-bad medical problems. I don't have fair solution, maybe going Canada style with the healthcare. It is just an unfortunate situation.

3. I believe that the illegals that file their taxes should be given more benefits and chances than illegals that simply wire money to Mexico tax free. (link) I don't believe giving someone the "right" to own an xbox360 and plasma tv a humane right.

In Mexico they have food, shelter, clothing, families. Money is no reason for treason. If they want America they are gonna have to do it the American way and kill the "natives". We are not going to hand over our country to Mexico. We are not a Mexican "territory" like the Phillipines are to us. I 100% disagree with money as a motivator for illegal-immigration. If money is on your mind do it the right way. Mexico has institutions of higher learning.

PuckSR thinks we should accept the illegals that don't want to work for it, just take it free. I say we take the ones that truely try. Keep our application process with high standards. Make the process easier, but still keep some standards. I don't think every illegal is going to turn over a new leaf and start getting eduacted and learn how to manage money, and PAY TAXES. It's ignorant to think they will.

I don't believe PuckSR is ignorant, I do however, think he is naive in his thoughts of a Eutopian society. NOT possible. Especially in a democracy. Every see a democratic sports team take it all the way? No, they all have a leader with a vision. And, if the leader isn't the coach, and a player doesn't step up, have you ever seen one that wasn't in last place?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 29, 2006, 05:34:00 PM

Oh, you are right, I forgot. This land was uninhabitated. We didn't kill a lot of people for it.

Plus I guess you never heard of an ITIN
http://www.irs.gov/i...d=96287,00.html

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 30, 2006, 04:30:00 PM

QUOTE(L.A. Times)

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

http://www.city-jour...egal_alien.html

Stats can be manipulated whatever way you want, but I know for a fact all the illegal-immigrants aren't here for the upstanding reasons you wish to believe.

Illegals should file an ITIN, to be given more opportunities than non-law abiding illegal immigrants.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on April 30, 2006, 05:36:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 30 2006, 07:29 PM)

Many people have evil intent....but you cant use the fact that some illegal immigrants commit crimes to justify that they are all "evil"

I never said all were evil. I said all weren't good.

I promise I will read the article later, I don't have time right now.

May 1, we will find out a lot about their intent. Shutting down cities is not a way to plead their case.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 01, 2006, 03:36:00 AM

We do rely on it, but that isn't the point. The laws of supply and demand would reach an equilibrium again shortly after. My solution is not to send them back. Just make it easier to be legal. Send back the ones that don't deserve to be here. I wish they all were farmers trying to make an honest living over here. But you know that isn't the way it is.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 01, 2006, 04:04:00 AM

More freedoms: Healthcare, freedom from law, the freedom of being responsible for their actions. Legal immigrants have more to worry about than illegals.

More cultural differences: The legal consenting age before its statutory rape.

More reasons for them to register: Make their employers pay taxes on their employees. Take a true census. Healthy living conditions, not 20 to a 2 bedroom apt.

I know we don't have an official language, but I think we should. I don't see other countries learning or teaching mandatory languages other than English. We are the world power and the world views us as English speaking. The only reason I say we should, is it will help with the soup bowl vs. salad bowl concept.

P.S. I ran out of time to edit my previous post. And, since the rest of the forum has grown tired of us. I figured I could post twice in a row.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Juniorman030790 on May 01, 2006, 01:39:00 PM

I think If you are an Illegal Immigrant you do not belong in the US and should not bitch about getting rights.

It's stupid for people to bitch about how they back the US workforce when many Legal Americans need a job.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 01, 2006, 02:16:00 PM

Illegal immigrants can piss up a rope and then go pound sand in their asses.

The brown people worldwide are gradually taking over this country. Americans and Europeans need to quit being so complacent and do something about it. The Muslims are taking over Europe; and the Mexicans are taking over the U.S. This shit burns my butt.

I guess everybody ought to bone up on their spanish....or start learning how to use chop-sticks; because we are a dying breed.

It's time to prosocute those who are illegal and prosocute those who hire them.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on May 01, 2006, 03:18:00 PM

QUOTE

As far as rights go...i think your missing the point...
They dont want the right to vote or anything....they just want the same humane/legal treatment....

Dont get me started on Americans needing jobs....
Most Americans that are currently unemployed are not having their jobs stolen by illegal immigration...
They are having them stolen by laziness, greed, and ego.....

QUOTE

I guess it would really piss you off to learn that Mexicans are white?
That they are an ethnic mix of europeans and native peoples?
Wow...just like every damn American....
The Muslims have been "taking over Europe" for centuries....why do you think we fought the crusades.
The Muslims have just as much of a right to exist as you do...

QUOTE

It's time to prosocute those who are illegal and prosocute those who hire them.

We already do that....
Unfortunately...if we suddenly did find a way to kick them all out of the country...it would kill our economy...

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 01, 2006, 05:19:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 1 2006, 04:25 PM)

We already do that....
Unfortunately...if we suddenly did find a way to kick them all out of the country...it would kill our economy...

So you'd rather lay down and die than fight for you rights and freedoms?

Not me. Screw 'em and put 'em on a bus and send 'em packin'. We'll find a way to overcome our economical plight.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 01, 2006, 05:38:00 PM

We don't already do that. If the companies that hired them were properly penalized then the illegals would have no reason to come here.

Send them away, or make them legal, and it will have no effect on our economy in a year. Laws of supply and demand.

They do NOT do jobs noone else wants to do. That is rediculous.

And they get free healthcare, puckSR, if you read back I already discussed it, because they don't have to pay for it. No copay, no nothing. Hence, free.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 02, 2006, 05:42:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 1 2006, 10:02 PM)

Nah...my actual motive for allowing illegal immigrants is goes along these lines....
This country was founded on immigrants....and will continue to rely on immigrants....
It is both naive to believe we are better off without them and cruel to claim that their rights as human beings do not matter.

I have no problem with immigrants.....I DO have a problem with ILLEGALS. Illegals are the problem. All they need to do is to respect the laws of this land. That's the problem. The Mexicans have this idea that they can roam the entire continent without any respect of any laws or our borders.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 02, 2006, 05:43:00 AM

God forbid I misspell a word, I must be stupid. Or in a rush. Either way, I see you resort to attacking the man instead of the ideas again. Good for you. IPB Image

Good luck in your endeavours. You lost another person to debate with. Keep it up, noone else will ever post in here again. But, hey, you will always be right.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 02, 2006, 06:52:00 AM

^^^
Thank you for bringing a mature voice into the discussion.

Your point with the healthcare situation is valid. I am simply stating that an illegal is tremendously less likely to pay after receiving care than a non-illegal. The only numbers I have are from my wife, who has seen her hospital pay other hospitals to take the illegal patients, after they have been treated. Simply because it saves the hospital money. It is cheaper to pay another hospital to take care of them than it is to continue treatment themselves.

Unfortunatley, our healthcare system is now big business. Money is the priority. As I said earlier, I do not have a solution. You are right, you cannot blame the illegals. But, you cannot deny that they are a major contributing factor.

I say stealing food to eat is wrong. If I was in that situation and I had to steal to feed my child, I would do it. I would also accept the consequences. I would walk over to the owner of the apple orchard and say, "my son was starving and I took an apple for him. I have no money, is there a way I can pay you back?"
What the illegals are doing, is saying it is their right to steal apples cause they are hungry. I disagree with the process of their logic. Not the cause, the process.

When I was in Mexico, I lived in Metepec/Puebla. (Puebla is nicer than a lot of places in the U.S. by the way)I went to many cities including Mexico City and many small towns. There are people that do live in very rough situations. I do not know the numbers, but in America we have the same type of people. People living on the streets, no education, etc. Again, it is unfortunate. But, as the world power, is it our responsibility to fix other countries corruption problems? Is it our job to take in the worlds uneducated and unlawful? I do not think so. It is our job to be big brother, but not be an open pocket dad.

Do not misinterpret what I am saying. I am only adding a different perspective to your comments, I am not saying they are wrong.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 02, 2006, 07:24:00 AM

QUOTE(aeneaslara @ May 2 2006, 07:32 AM)

I have worked hard to get the degrees I have. I have served in the military, and had to spend my time in the sandbox overseas. I am willing to fight for everything I've earned, and I would be more than happy to defend myself from anyone. Especially the likes of w2kj.

You sure told me, huh. (Oh by the way; you misspelled c-o-t-t-o-n....twice.

)

I'm not a hate monger; really I'm not. I have no problem with you personally. I have no problem with ethnic diversity. I have no problem with immigrants. I have no problem with Mexico or Mexicans.

I do have a problem with illegal immigrants of any nationality. If they are documented; well then by all means, come on in. If they pay their taxes; come on in. If they will abide by the laws of this land; come on in. Anybody wishing to immigrate....please just respect our laws...that's what most people of this nation are upset about right now. Illegal entry.

I'm not extremely educated; I don't have any degrees; I have raised a family by the sweat of my brow; I have worked in less than desirable jobs; I not wealthy; my father served in 3 wars; my mother served during the Korean Conflict; and my son is now serving in the U.S. Air Force; and our family were immigrants too, some 100+ years ago. But I will defend this country and will stand up for it's immigration laws.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: _iffy on May 02, 2006, 09:41:00 AM

Isn't all this, just new slave labour? No longer africans but mexicans. Didn't america learn anything the last time? MLK? X?

immagrants...
If they're illegal, kick them out. Ban them like x-s does to pirates. - simple. I'm sure the rupublicans could find a way to connect illegal immagrants with terrorists.

Open up the borders to legal immagrants, and let the ones who follow the rules get the benifits. Allow more of the patient and law binding in.

Those who wait inline should be in a moving line.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on May 02, 2006, 09:57:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 2 2006, 05:50 AM)

God forbid I misspell a word, I must be stupid. Or in a rush. Either way, I see you resort to attacking the man instead of the ideas again. Good for you. IPB Image

Good luck in your endeavours. You lost another person to debate with. Keep it up, noone else will ever post in here again. But, hey, you will always be right.

LMAO,

You two should get married.

Real simple, companies that do business in this matter should be fined/jailed and exposed to public. If you choose to buy their services and goods then you condomn their "illegal" actions.

Realistically, you are pissing in the wind upper class america makes to much money from 3rd world workers. Therefore nothing is going to change, Tommy Hillfiger will keep selling $ 100 shirts made in China for $2.25.

I am trying to get me a few Mexicans or eastern europeans on the payroll.

VOTE!!!!!!!

P.S.
If you figure out how to capture and deport 12 million people(Just mexicans not to mention Asians, Canadians, others) from lower 48 states when CIA cant catch the tallest man in afghanistan(size of Texas) you should run for political office.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: _iffy on May 02, 2006, 10:04:00 AM

^^ didn't they(illegal immagrants) do that already? That big march? All of them together at once? If the US government wanted the illegal immagrants out, they would have acted yesterday(or the day before?).
Round 'em up and ship 'em. They didn't. It's because they have a new slave labour.

Old habits die hard.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: PhatIrishBastard on May 02, 2006, 12:47:00 PM

QUOTE(_iffy @ May 2 2006, 10:11 AM)

I dont think 12 million showed up but good point.

QUOTE(_iffy @ May 2 2006, 10:11 AM)

It's because they have a new slave labour.
Old habits die hard.

British americans get offended when faced with the totality of the crimes against humanity they have commited in several lands.

When those planes flew into the towers and Brits began to jump to their deaths

, it kind of reminded me of that movie about american slavery when the africans would jump to their deaths in the Atlantic rather than be a slave.

QUOTE

Turnabout is fairplay

LOL

It is the "American" pride. It will be there undoing.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: _iffy on May 02, 2006, 01:44:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 2 2006, 03:28 PM)

They may be stealing your tax dollars, and they may be stealing your jobs....but your wrong to claim they are stealing....

Uhmmm....

I know you were making a point, but when you take it out of context, it makes quite the funny oxymoron.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Juniorman030790 on May 02, 2006, 02:05:00 PM

puckSR. You were right. I was and still am semi-uninformed.

I think anyone on earth should have the right to be treated humanely.

I think If stealing food is a survival issue then people must do what they must do. I wouldn't condone it but if you gotta. Then do it.

aeneaslara: you bring several good points into the conversation.

If a person was born in the US then they should not be persecuted for having an illegal parent. If the parent chose to come to the US to have their child and still be illegal then yeah, that's not good but whatever. It's for a better life.

My main concern is tax money and things of that nature. Money issues.

I think the government already gives too many handouts to people who don't deserve it, ie: lazy people and people who have a "higher than thou" attitued.

There is no need to pick on anyone for a typo. That's just stupid.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: aeneaslara on May 02, 2006, 05:20:00 PM

QUOTE(w2kj @ May 2 2006, 08:31 AM)

(Oh by the way; you misspelled c-o-t-t-o-n....twice.

)

Oh yeah, w2kj, you really showed me! Oh the shame, I misspelled cotton. I got it right this time though, didn't I? C-o-t-t-on. So yeah I guess I did. Does that make you feel smart to point out other people's spelling errors?

My degrees are in business, accounting to be exact (BBA & MBA) so I guess I will blame my spelling errors on the fact that they are not two English degrees.

I'm glad your not a hate monger, but that is exactly what you paint yourself out to be when you say stuff like this:

"The brown people worldwide are gradually taking over this country. Americans and Europeans need to quit being so complacent and do something about it. The Muslims are taking over Europe; and the Mexicans are taking over the U.S. This shit burns my butt.

I guess everybody ought to bone up on their spanish....or start learning how to use chop-sticks; because we are a dying breed."

What does it matter what religion people are? What does it matter that people speak a different language than you? So, what type of "dying breed" are you exactly? I'm sorry, but when you say stuff like that, you make yourself seem hateful and intolerant of other races and ethnicities. I appreciate your a hard worker, and I know its hard to try to make a better life for your family. So why are you getting so angry at other human beings for trying to do the same for their families? I also know what hard work is. I've worked in the cotton fields, corn fields, oil fields, gas fields, and sewer repair. I've dug ditches and built fences. Farmwork, ranchwork, just about any other hard "outside" work, ie manual labor, I've done. I've never really done any mechanical repair though. I've also did easier jobs too. I've worked at a Dairy Queen, in the YMCA tutoring junior high kids, I tutored students at my universtiy, and I am currently tutoring two blind friends with their college work. I was in the Army, went to Iraq, came home, and just now finished my MBA. (I've been finished with the classes, I've just been waiting for commencement) My dad was an immigrant, but my mom's family has lived in Texas since the 1700's. (she's of Spanish descent and her family was one of the first to settle in Texas) Her family had its land taken from them after the Texas Revolution, even though they supported the Texas rebels. That's fair isn't it? I know about hard times and hard work, so please don't use that as an excuse for your anger. I just choose not to blame it on others.

Cowtown, TX. You don't happen to be from a small town about 100 miles from Houston do you? Because that is where I am from and its name is very similar to Cowtown.

throwinks and Juniorman030790, thanks for your compliment. I tried to be mature and fair in my assessment of other people's posts.

Again, illegals do not get free healthcare. They are supposed to pay for it, but they make it free when the do not pay for it. Just like everyone else who skips out on a hospital bill. Yet even this is too large a blanket statement because not all illegals skip out on their hospital bills, just those who don't want to pay for it. But yes the ones who do not pay do put a huge burden on the system that is already being stretched. But it is being stretched because our citizens are doing the same thing; skipping out on their bills, I mean. As for trying to help people in need, isn't that what we are doing in Iraq?

Also, lazy people from any where do not deserve any help. So Juniorman030790 I agree with you there.

To me, the most important thing is to bring these people out of the shadows. We need this so that those people who are truly criminals can be properly dealt with, and those who can truly help or need help can be left here.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Arvarden on May 03, 2006, 03:58:00 AM

Open up your borders? America already has 20 million + illegals.

This number is not suprising considering the Mexican governemnt gives the green light for it's own people to abuse another nations hospitality. For example booklets are handed out to wannabe illegals that show them safe crossing points and places in America where an illegal might find work.

The Mexican government does not want to look after it own, it would rather push the problem on to some one else's door step. If illegals want a better life then they must make there country great rather than making another nation great.

One last note, I can not believe someone mentioned America does not have a native language, what language does the US government speak, Spanish?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on May 03, 2006, 05:37:00 AM

QUOTE

They believe in hardwork and humility....just like the immigrants who founded this country.
I honestly believe that allowing them to cross the border freely would encourage lazy americans to get off their asses and work.

I kinda agree, and kind of not. You got a percentage that do good over here, at least, on your average joe, underdog kind of way, but you also got a percentage that do bad over here. The legal process is there for a reason, but since it's bypassed, we don't know who's who.

QUOTE

Really????
My current understanding is that most illegal immigrants work as day labor.....
It would be just as easy for a citizen to stand outside home depot and wait to get picked up....but they dont
90% of them are illegal aliens....why?
BTW your spelling is the only ridiculous thing...

That's because real citizens go through the proper channels, because we have the proper paperwork. Just because you don't see the otherside of the tracks doesnt mean it's not there. My friend, who's a hispanic, can only get labor jobs due to only having an HS diploma and that he's not really all that bright of a guy, but this guy gets paid 12+ for doing warehouse work, and he goes through staffing agencies that hand him the jobs like water.

You might think, 12/hr is pretty low, but not true, where we are, the cost of living is lower, so, we get paid less. 12/hr is actually a lot over here, he's kickin it in a new apartment, got the snazziest new phone, new car, etc.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 03, 2006, 05:56:00 AM

QUOTE

Groups that advise advocacy organizations on legal issues also convey the same message, although more carefully couched. In a paragraph titled "What are the risks in applying for and using the ITIN?" the National Employment Law Project gives the following advice: "It is not in the IRS’s tax collection interest to disclose information to the INS. Thus far, advocates have not learned of any specific situations where the IRS has shared information with the INS. However, there is no guarantee that IRS or a state agency would not share this information with the INS."20

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 03, 2006, 06:52:00 AM

QUOTE(aeneaslara @ May 2 2006, 06:27 PM)

Actually you do sound pretty intelligent, but dude; get over yourself. Quit whining; it was small joke. Just trying to get you to lighten up.

QUOTE(aeneaslara @ May 2 2006, 06:27 PM)

Cowtown, TX. You don't happen to be from a small town about 100 miles from Houston do you? Because that is where I am from and its name is very similar to Cowtown.

What; do you want to hunt me down and kick my ass or something? Huh? Try Fort Worth; that's where I live.

My only problem right now is illegal immigration. Plain and simple. No flowery speeches; just plain and simple.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: _iffy on May 03, 2006, 09:46:00 AM

There's 295,734,134 people in america, how many of them are cops?

2004 census told me there's only 222,650

Is that right? Seems kinda thin?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 03, 2006, 08:53:00 PM

http://poststuff2.en...php?pic=mex.jpg
IPB Image

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on May 05, 2006, 03:03:00 AM

Lol that mustve been photoshopped. If that wasnt, he's the dumbest fucker on this planet. No burritos because of no illegals? Please, we have many Mexican restaurants, not only that, we can go on the internet and get the exact recipe to make it ourselves.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 05, 2006, 10:36:00 AM

^^^
hahaha

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: lordvader129 on May 05, 2006, 10:52:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 3 2006, 11:00 PM)

http://poststuff2.en...php?pic=mex.jpg
IPB Image

does this guy even realize burritos arent mexican? its from texas (yeah, thats right, american food)

no self respecting mexican woul dever eat a "little donkey"

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 05, 2006, 10:54:00 AM

The whole time I was in Mexico I never once saw a tortilla chip. I once ate a bowl of tortilla chip soup, but no chips for dippin'.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on May 05, 2006, 04:59:00 PM

QUOTE

does this guy even realize burritos arent mexican? its from texas (yeah, thats right, american food)

no self respecting mexican woul dever eat a "little donkey"

I will agree....I didnt even really see burritos until i travelled out of south texas....
Every burrito I have ever seen looks like a taco....except they fold it differently....and typically use flour tortillas...instead of corn(another Tex-Mex tradition---flour tortillas)

However, I think he might actually realize it....
It would be like an Italian guy making a comment about taking away our pizza.
Pizza isnt italian.....(what we typically refer to as a pizza is from New York)
But we all think it is....and so by making that statement the joke is on us.....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 05, 2006, 06:46:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 3 2006, 11:00 PM)

http://poststuff2.en...php?pic=mex.jpg
IPB Image

You dont miss an oppurtunity to demonstrate your level of intelligence.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 05, 2006, 06:53:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ May 5 2006, 08:53 PM)

You dont miss an oppurtunity to demonstrate your level of intelligence.

Me?!? I thought it was funny. I didn't explicate it to the point of exhaustion. I was, in a way, pointing out Mexicans don't do jobs Americans don't want to do.

P.S. Where ya been?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 05, 2006, 07:09:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 5 2006, 09:00 PM)

Me?!? I thought it was funny. I didn't explicate it to the point of exhaustion. I was, in a way, pointing out Mexicans don't do jobs Americans don't want to do.

Funny but theory of capitalism, says that if people dont want to pick fruit for $3.00/hr, that as the scarcity of fruit cause price of fruit to increase incentives (wages) will increase. But as you mentioned in other thread people cheat. That is what hurts all americans.

But, ya know dude I agree with you to an extent, but all that antimexican bull is over the top.

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 5 2006, 09:00 PM)

P.S. Where ya been?

I been around, I am not a big poster, I am more of a lurker. I only had that volly of posts with the Cock, and his brother based on a bet with someone.

They should rename this forum to CockSr Manifesto's.

But I will chime in from time to time when I read some BOGUS bs.

LOL....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 05, 2006, 07:22:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ May 5 2006, 09:16 PM)

But, ya know dude I agree with you to an extent, but all that antimexican bull is over the top.

I kinda agree, I was over the top a bit. I never wanted to be Anti-Mexican. I was/am playing devils advocate with puckSR a little bit.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 05, 2006, 07:59:00 PM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 5 2006, 09:29 PM)

I kinda agree, I was over the top a bit. I never wanted to be Anti-Mexican. I was/am playing devils advocate with puckSR a little bit.

Question:

If I throw a baseball from center fiels to 2nd bases, and it hits you in the jaw, Will the ball have enough force to break your jaw.

The possible answers to that question illustrate why you should not take COCK to seriously.

I think that you would agree the ball would strike you with some force, although it is not accelerating or traveling at a constant velocity.

There are many individuals that are masters of their own opinions and many reside here, which is probably one of the reasons I dont visit as often.

Good Luck

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: chorizo1 on May 05, 2006, 11:02:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 5 2006, 11:48 PM)

Holy crap your an idiot....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 06, 2006, 05:11:00 AM

QUOTE(chorizo1 @ May 6 2006, 01:09 AM)

That is kinda funny. I am sure he was in a rush, but still humorous.

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502652
Please go there guys.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: brutalsun on May 06, 2006, 05:57:00 AM

Illegal immigrants have NO right to demand anything from our government. Right now they are trying to show that they have pull, it shouldn't be that way. I hope the American people wake up and stand up.
I Truely believe that yes this is the land of opportunity, the land of freedom and it's attractive to those with out either BUT demanding to cut in front of people who did things the "legal" way is wrong. Go home and do it again but the right way. All I hear is "they do jobs noone else will do" BULLSHIT, they do jobs that an American wouldn't do for less than MIN WAGE. An American isn't going to work for less than 5.75 that is guaranteed by the Federal government, an illegal on the other hand will do that job for 2-3 an hour, of course an employer is going to hire 2 for the price of 1. It's time to take the demand for illegals out of the picture. Punish the buisnesses that utilize this form of cheap labor make it so expensive to hire an illegal that it forces them to turn to AMERICANS. Americans are used to a certain lifestyle, we are entitled to it, after all at one point we were a 3rd world country early 1900's, hireing illegals hurts Americans. That is all

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 06, 2006, 06:24:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 6 2006, 07:18 AM)

That is kinda funny. I am sure he was in a rush, but still humorous.

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502652
Please go there guys.

I asked you your opinion, there is a very simple common sense answer.

yes or no.

Cock doesnt understand, probably never will, and will resume stalking my post, and when that doesnt work he will pm Lordvader, and insist I am mediadeath. Or just make up some BOGUS user to annoy.

Like, I said kind of why I dont post here hardly anymore like a broke record. Plus everyone thinks a like, or doesnt think at all.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 06, 2006, 06:53:00 AM

QUOTE(brutalsun @ May 6 2006, 07:04 AM)

amen brutha....amen.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 06, 2006, 07:15:00 AM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ May 6 2006, 08:31 AM)

I asked you your opinion, there is a very simple common sense answer.

yes or no.

I left an answer for you in the other thread.
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502652

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 06, 2006, 08:29:00 AM

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 6 2006, 09:22 AM)

I left an answer for you in the other thread.
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502652

Dude, you American whites see everything through one prism, in the same context.

I think of Michael Moores bowling for Columbine cartoon skit about how scary american whites are.

How whites prepared for Helter Skelter, after the slaves were freed in the southern states and nothing happened.

I did an "economics of slavery" presentation in a college history course a number of years ago, and I have always refuted some religous altruistic notion for abolishment of slavery. One can simply look at the price of cotton or tobaco leading up to and after the civil war and understand the true under current of the issue.

Its the same thing today, the slaveowners (haves) and the nonslaveowners (have nots).

Even if the 10+ million illegal imigrants from several countries that reside here were naturalized nothing would change, only now the race pimps would have to find a new angle to empassion the american public.

The race pimps will still export jobs to asia.

U.S. manufacturing jobs will continue to decline.

The american congress will not move to raise federal minimal wage, only congressional wages.

And the sloths of american society will continue to ignore both the expanding american national debt as well as their budweiser waist lines.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: shuyin131 on May 06, 2006, 12:53:00 PM

Dude....just cause you can get instructions on how to do something....it doesnt mean you can do it....
Just check out the newbie section if your doubting that fact....

Cooking and technology are 2 different things. I don't know what the newbie section entails, but most likely has to do with technology, which is a different story. It's like saying, If I gave a recipie on how to make a good sandwich, but that person can't actually make the sandwich. Yes, it's that stupid and thats how it sounds.

Then again, there was this one coworker that couldnt for the life of him, figure out how the breakfast burritos at my work was made..

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: brutalsun on May 06, 2006, 01:44:00 PM

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ May 6 2006, 09:36 AM)

Pretty racist if I say so. YOU AMERICAN WHITES... hmmmm it's not just whites that chime in on the issue. And not once did I single out MEXICAN,or El Salvadorian, or Cuban. there are several groups of illegals. My point is that the illegal population should not get placed in front of legal immigrants when it comes to the issue of citizenship. I work with several green card, authorized immigrants who are so pissed off that these illegals are demanding to "cut in line" The legal immigrants have spent thousands of dollars and invested hundreds of hours learning our culture to become one with us, to add their uniqueness to our own. The illegals on the other hand export all american dollars they earn, taking it out of circulation which means they are not fully utilizing the countries services.
Quit shitting on the American people, get the Fuck out

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 06, 2006, 03:37:00 PM

QUOTE(brutalsun @ May 6 2006, 03:51 PM)

The upper class white american aristocracy are the ones shitting on you.

QUOTE(brutalsun @ May 6 2006, 03:51 PM)

Quit shitting on the American people, get the Fuck out

And what have you done for America? You are just another misguided angry white dude.

QUOTE(brutalsun @ May 6 2006, 03:51 PM)

The legal immigrants have spent thousands of dollars and invested hundreds of hours learning our culture to become one with us, to add their uniqueness to our own. The illegals on the other hand export all american dollars they earn, taking it out of circulation which means they are not fully utilizing the countries services.

What is eroding the american dollar is the increasing budget and trade deficits. OR in English so that you can understand. Your country is borrowing money from the Chinese/Saudis, to pay for wars, declining manufacturing and even govenrment services.

One big internatinal credit card, and the day the international community no longer honors our latest charges can
you say "Soviet Union".

At least interject something with a factual basis.

YOU are a DEMAGOG. Not even a bright one at that.

P.S. You only prove the context of my prior post, you little mind can only accept my critiscm based on the understanding that I am not white (the american white male racial prism) everything is someone selses frackin
fault. The irony is PWT's like you will be the niggers of the very short future.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: slightly_damp on May 06, 2006, 08:39:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 12:06 AM)

Pizza isnt italian.....(what we typically refer to as a pizza is from New York)
But we all think it is....and so by making that statement the joke is on us.....

http://www.straightd...bag/mpizza.html

QUOTE

Italian immigrants brought pizza to the United States, in the early 1900s. However, it was the 1950s when pizza caught on outside the Italian-American community, and quickly spread throughout the U.S. and became an international food, now found in every country.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on May 06, 2006, 09:29:00 PM

"wie neadz edjewkasion"

it got on the front page of the newspaper. trust me that sign was meant soley for us to laugh at and gain attention. he probably came up with it in his dorm room while smokin a biggie.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 07, 2006, 08:34:00 AM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 09:30 PM)

He is a demagog?
Yet your the one who constantly uses emotionally significant or just blatantly derogatory terms to make your point?

The truth never hurt anyone, but I guess if you entire life or culture is based upon lies it can be sobering.

Cock as you are well aware ignorance is bliss..

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 07, 2006, 12:00:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 7 2006, 11:25 AM)

WHAT?????
I didnt say that you lied....i said that you used emotionally charged words....
You appeal to the passions and prejudice of your audience....

You do all of this in an attempt to illicit a particular reaction from your audience in order to manipulate their opinions....

Your a demagog

And exactly who is my audience?

Even better how am I trying to manipulate anyones opinion, especially if I am not lying.

I only point out apparent inconsitiencies in BS posts (moslty yours) but a few others every now and again.

QUOTE

demagogue (n.) A leader who obtains power by means of impassioned appeals to the emotions and prejudices of the populace.

Exactly what prejudice am I exploiting to gain politcal influence here on xbox-scene.com (LOL)

-) The anticolored sentiment here on this board or in america?
-) The antijewish sentiment in America?
-) The "white" race card?

"Emotional" I think insulting would be more descriptive.

If someone calls you are a moron, whore, hate mongor, race pimp, or part time idiot what is the harm?

Especially if it is true.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 08, 2006, 07:08:00 AM

Sentiment against illegals is powerful and growing....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 08, 2006, 01:49:00 PM

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 1 2006, 12:20 PM)

So many things wrong...where to start?
1. I think we are getting along fairly well without an official language...why change it
2. Many countries teach languages other than English...and require them
3. We are not "the world power"...we are "a world power"
4. Most countries with mandatory languages and complex ethnic backgrounds require multiple languages....so if we declared an official language...we would probably declare a few of them...not just one...
5. Being fluent in an official language is not a requirement for citizenship in a country....

1. We are not getting along fairly well...that's why you change it.
2. So? Can you give me an example please. Requiring in school doesn't count. Our schools require it too.
3. When did that happen?
4. Can you please give an example.
5. But speaking it is.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 08, 2006, 03:27:00 PM

I think you misunderstand what I am saying. All of those countries have official languages, correct. We need one too. Whichever region you are in within that country, the street signs and laguage are all understood to be the language of the area. In Canada for example, you know if you are supposed to be speaking French or English. Noone is walking around crying "hola, que paso" and not understanding why they can't communicate.

In America, we have no "official" language, in any area. An official language being declared, be it English, Spanish, both, Spanglish, or "North American" would make the area safer, easier and more friendly, as well as making people get along at least at some level.

I do not believe in the salad bowl effect being a good thing. "United We Stand," we need a standard.

P.S. Thank you for the links, I was having trouble finding anything relating.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: puckSR on May 08, 2006, 03:52:00 PM

QUOTE

Whichever region you are in within that country, the street signs and laguage are all understood to be the language of the area.

Correct....but in many cases street signs and language are expected to be in multiple languages....
If you travel to Canada, in every region, all govt controlled documents are bi-lingual.....

Also, going back to examples...many countries are unofficially bilingual...
Especially when it comes to regional popularity of a language....

People living in louisianna may find it beneficial to speak french...
People living in New Mexico may find it beneficial to speak spanish
People living in California may find it beneficial to speak Chinese/Spanish....

Declaring an official language for the US or for each particular state would not be "helpful"...
Currently English is the official unofficial language of the US....
Alternative languages appear out of necessity, not by court order.....

QUOTE

In America, we have no "official" language, in any area. An official language being declared, be it English, Spanish, both, Spanglish, or "North American" would make the area safer, easier and more friendly, as well as making people get along at least at some level.

Actually you are wrong....several states have an official language...
and some states are officially bilingual....

The funny thing is that you keep referring to the salad bowl effect.....
You think for some reason our lack of official languages spoken by everyone is a problem...
read up on india...18 official language....
Hindi is the most popular and spoken by most people who are "educated"...
but it is only natively spoken by 18% of the population....

In almost every country a dominant language emerges.....but we are not unique in the fact that we have regional secondary languages in certain parts of the country....
English is spoken by a vast majority of the people in the US....
but that doesnt mean that you *must* speak english...

If people who dont speak english want better employement and better oppurtunities....they will learn English
If people who speak english want better employement and better oppurtunities in non-english regions....they will learn another language...

It is capitalism at its finest.....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 09, 2006, 12:25:00 AM

Its not about capitalism. Its about regulations. If you go to the DMV you know what language the forms are going to be in. You know all drivers can read the signs. You know if you get lost, you can get directions.

The reason for language differentiation in most other countries is the multiple regime changes. In America we haven't had that. We have it because people want to mesh with our culture and be part of our country, but not let go of theirs. With regime changes I can understand not wanting to let go, but if you decide to leave your country, you are choosing to let go.

I believe 1 day we should have a globalized language, and the U.N. should be the world power. But, I guess that is as farfetched as your Eutopia ideas.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 09, 2006, 05:50:00 PM

You are confusing people. I don't care which language, or how many. We just need one. Eventually the whole world needs one.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 09, 2006, 07:16:00 PM

As I said, it is farfetched. Although, it would make life easier for everyone in the world, and we would better be able to take care of everyone and their needs.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: _iffy on May 09, 2006, 07:20:00 PM

All airports, air traffic controlers and all pilots, everywhere, have to speak english. (ICAO standard)

More countries speak english than any other language, but more people speak manderin than any other language. (mandein or cantonese)

puck has a point though... gaelic, latin, icelandic, are still kicking around

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 09, 2006, 07:34:00 PM

No, I am not saying lose all the other languages. I am saying go the way of the air control. It will make understanding one another much much easier. That is the beauty of the internet. Information travels faster now than it ever has in the history of the world. Online translators make it a little easier. But, imagine a world where everyone cn communicate freely and without complication. So much more would get accomplished. I am just tryng to help puck reach his heaven on earth utopia.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 10, 2006, 07:04:00 AM

forget it. tu no comprende.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: w2kj on May 10, 2006, 07:21:00 AM

You guys ought to take the bong out of your face; put the chalupa down; and come back down to planet Earth.

This thread was discussing the "Pro-Immigrant March" and the impact it would have; remember? You guys have strayed way to far away for the original topic with all of your utopian ideas.

Remember????

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 10, 2006, 07:33:00 AM

Sorry.

Great link

found this on that site
http://projectusa.or...ments/index.php
It's a top 10 list of sorts. They write better than I do. I agree with the list and have been trying to make some of those points all along.
Especially #7 + #4

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: juan_2006 on May 10, 2006, 08:21:00 PM

OK i am a latino who lives in canada......with 100% legal pappers and i just turned a citizen, this doesnt affect me at all but it affects the family i have in the states who arent legal immigrants....well anyways. I wish there was a way people could easily just cross the usa in a legal way....and stay as long as they would want....but that aint gonna happen.....

top 5 reasons why people move to the states:

5. Want to have a better life
4. have low paying jobs in their home countries (compared to the low paying jobs in north america)
3. They have family there
2. They wish to move to a new country
1. Need money to sustain their families

why did i move to canada??? well my aunt invited us....we wanted to have a new life....it was also geting dangerous in our home country....now im 14..i moved here when i was 10....it took us 2 yrs to have legal pappers....when i was in gr 3 we moved to guatemala from honduras...because they did not have an embassy in honduras......so there i was an 8yr old kid in a new country ..... i did not finish gr3 so i had to do it all over again (it wasnt that i wasnt smart enough...actually i had the best marks in the whole school) when i turned 10 we came here.....so i was in gr5 in a new country did not know any english, in a strange country.....the kids did not liek me because i was from another country.....i was extremely lonely,i hated reccess so much, i remember i used to cry alot at home.....whats really funny is that this guy i used to go to school with who was really racist and mean to me, talked with me on msn and hes like "im sorry i was soo mean to you" so i forgave him, even still some people are really racist to me....though i suck it up and pretty much dont have many enemies.... you think its worth 2yrs of your life to come to a new country and be treated like shit???? I dont think so... this people in the US are discriminated like i was...it aint fun for them...it is way rougher in the states then in canada....but hey atleast they have people of their own kind... i didnt.....

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: jha'dhur on May 14, 2006, 02:22:00 PM

QUOTE(juan_2006 @ May 10 2006, 10:28 PM)

If I ever win powerball I am going to hire me a clan of mexicans and put all these sorry sons a bitches in USA out of business.

The problem that plagues latin america as well as other regions is the fact your leaders sell you out to foreign masters (US and others) and dont give two pecos for native peoples, this is also slowly subverting american capitalism and the common citizen hasnt connected the dots.

The present masters in america distract people by stroking the bigotrous undertones of main stream american culture.

Similiar to Nazi party, or religous extremism card, it is about the mighty dollar, religion or race are the camoflauage.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: Heet on May 14, 2006, 10:31:00 PM

When did "pro immigrant" become the replacement for ILLEGAL ALIEN? Funny how the political parties will change wording to fool idiots.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 15, 2006, 07:26:00 PM

QUOTE

Launch a program that would allow illegal immigrants already in the U.S. to achieve citizenship after they pay a penalty, pay taxes, learn English and work at a job for a number of years. The president rejected critics that called such a program "amnesty."

That is pretty bold to make them learn English. You all know I like the idea though.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on May 16, 2006, 07:38:00 AM

Im pretty sure that anyone who is on the naturalization path who does not speak english is supposed to take 2 years of english classes any ways. I do know they get funding for it up front. I might be wrong about this, but i believe they also have to take a test to show proficiency. Google EFL, TOEFL, ESL and ESOL for more info. We spend billions every year providing free classes.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: damam on May 18, 2006, 08:13:00 AM

QUOTE(juan_2006 @ May 17 2006, 03:38 PM)

Im sure your from Canada

. Yeah there is free classes.....i took ESL for 8 months....I think this is only in Canada since almost all immigrants are 100% legal....Canada actually cares about their immigrants, because they all atleast pay taxes....

actually im from the states. the US spends 3 - 5 billion a year teaching legal immigrants english. They can take up to 2 years free. The only thing I dont know is whether or not they have to take a proficiency exam.

In canada, did you have to take a proficiency exam?

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: throwingks on May 19, 2006, 10:08:00 AM

http://www.cbsnews.c...D8HMT8C80.shtml
National language or unifying language?

It's about time people realized the need for one.

Title: What Do You Think Of Pro-immigrant March?
Post by: juan_2006 on May 21, 2006, 03:20:00 PM

QUOTE(damam @ May 18 2006, 08:20 AM)

I didnt take one.... i doubt my parents did... if you feel you know enough english then you can stop taking the classes, thats what i did, my parents stoped cause they needed to get a job soon....they returned later and it was still free, i remember when i used to take esl, i took it in the morning part of the school day, they would send a couple taxis to takes us to this school where they taught us english....I never took a test or anything like that...

QUOTE(throwingks @ May 19 2006, 10:15 AM)

http://www.cbsnews.c...D8HMT8C80.shtml
National language or unifying language?

It's about time people realized the need for one.

English will always be the national language of the states...

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Off Topic Forums => General Chat => Politics, News and Religion => Topic started by: prominator on April 11, 2006, 01:27:00 AM