Post by: Xbox-Scene on April 03, 2006, 09:27:00 AM
Posted by: Xbox-Scene Apr 3 2006, 04:27 PM
ELSPA assists in UK mod-chip conviction-- Posted by XanTium on April 3 11:20 EST
From http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=15815:
Quote
Following a police raid on his shop, DH Wings, Essex resident David Hoang was arrested on 23rd February for handling stolen goods and ELSPA was called in to provide evidence at his court trial after the accused pleaded not guilty to additional charges of chipping offences.
"We're pleased we could assist in this case," commented Michael Rawlinson, deputy director general of ELSPA. "The modification of games consoles, more commonly known as 'chipping', is a criminal offence and so is the possession of modified chips. The successful resolution of this case highlights the very real threat of prosecution and a criminal record to anyone tempted to become involved."
As a result of the input from ELSPA investigators, Mr Hoang's sentence was extended by a month, bringing the total term to eighteen months in prison.
Read More: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=15815
Post by: S1l3nt_N1nj4 on April 03, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: pcrat on April 03, 2006, 10:14:00 AM
. We the people of the modding community, if its for private use not public i can understand. its like owning a car. you can do just about whatever the sam hell ya want to it. BUT u just cant drive it on the public roads legally. unless your car is all legal.
same with xbox. we cant use it in public ( xbox live) but we can for private use. as for piracy, well bill gates better think of something better. or start hiring, people from the scene. since we are outdoing gates. duh!
ohwell, life is shit and so is M$.
Poor bastard has to sit in a prison, ( a place for people who area threat to society ) just for placeing a modification chip in a game counsole. wow whats next prison for throwing your ciggerette but on the sidewalk.
our own govt dont give a crap about us, hell bill gates dont.
Later
Post by: dark viper on April 03, 2006, 10:58:00 AM
Post by: PedrosPad on April 03, 2006, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(pcrat @ Apr 3 2006, 05:14 PM) 
Poor bastard has to sit in a prison
I wonder if he'll in one of the prisons that allow inmates to play video games.
(Wouldnt the playing of free-roaming games kind'a defeat the point of incarceration?
)
Post by: MaD_mAnIaC on April 03, 2006, 11:03:00 AM
QUOTE
"The modification of games consoles, more commonly known as 'chipping', is a criminal offence and so is the possession of modified chips."
Did i get this right? i can be arrested just by possessing a modchip???
IT'S JUST A F**KING MODCHIP, not a weapon or a drug!!
governments are all going crazy... start catching drug dealers and murderers, and leave us alone...
Post by: redwolf on April 03, 2006, 10:28:00 AM
QUOTE(dark viper @ Apr 3 2006, 05:29 PM)
wot if u want to make hombrew games, thats not a criminal offense is it but u need a chip
but "am i bothered"
Post by: TheRandomDude on April 03, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: redwolf on April 03, 2006, 10:41:00 AM
Post by: quall on April 03, 2006, 11:23:00 AM
QUOTE(S1l3nt_N1nj4 @ Apr 3 2006, 12:00 PM) 
i cant believe a guy just got arrested and going 2 prision 4 18 months for chipoing consoles.Thats just stupid,if u ask me.Like its not his fault that most people get their console chipped to play pirated games.And i still cant believe that chipping ur console in UK is a criminal offense.God,if u ask me,thats just a pile of BS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Charlie_PS2/David Ball was convicted for basically the same crime and was sentenced 3 years in prison and a 300k fine, Several years back. He chipped and sold chips.
These sentences are ludicrous when compared to other criminal acts.
This post has been edited by quall: Apr 3 2006, 06:27 PM
Post by: clogicgmather on April 03, 2006, 10:53:00 AM
QUOTE(redwolf @ Apr 3 2006, 05:41 PM)
and don't forget ELSPA is like mostely UK crap.. UK law is soooooo much strict then rest of the world. you can't even buy a CD from HMV then copy it to tape so you can listen in your car
Actually we have some of the best consumer protection laws out there, just most the u.k public dont seem to know their rights.
He only actually got 1 month for the chipping, which is illegal in the u.k if you provide a hacked bios file. Without this the xbox doesnt play copies and no laws have been broken.
Without knowing what stolen good he recieved it would be hard to judge if 17 months is a harsh sentence, but theres no denying handling stolen goods is a crime.
Although the u.k has new tough EU laws similar of that to the DMCA i have yet to see this enforced on its own, all the news reports i have read of u.k modders going to court is when theyve done something else aswellt
http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4650225.stm
This is a good example, im sure the majority of his sentence was for the pirated games he was installing on the hd. In this case it seems as though this charge was tacked on to the handling stolen goods charge.
I highly doubt that if this bloke wasnt on stolen goods charges that he would have been prosecuted soley for modding consoles, has this ever happened in the u.k yet?
I agree that once you buy something you should be able to do what you like with it, buts lets be under no illusion here, the VAST majority of people use chips soley to bypass the protections to play copied games they do not own. (note, the VAST majority of people arent the people who frequent sites such as xs)
Post by: throwingks on April 03, 2006, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: Joergen on April 03, 2006, 11:52:00 AM
Or sell chipped consoles from france where the über-dmca has no rule.
Post by: pepe2004 on April 03, 2006, 11:54:00 AM
Can you imagine?, in prison for eighteen months with rapers, murders, etc just for modding consoles, man, did I heard middle age here?, I'm serious. How will this guy get out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/uhh.gif)
This post has been edited by pepe2004: Apr 3 2006, 06:55 PM
Post by: Chamrock on April 03, 2006, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: benthorne on April 03, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
QUOTE(clogicgmather @ Apr 3 2006, 07:00 PM)
Actually we have some of the best consumer protection laws out there, just most the u.k public dont seem to know their rights.
He only actually got 1 month for the chipping, which is illegal in the u.k if you provide a hacked bios file. Without this the xbox doesnt play copies and no laws have been broken.
Without knowing what stolen good he recieved it would be hard to judge if 17 months is a harsh sentence, but theres no denying handling stolen goods is a crime.
Although the u.k has new tough EU laws similar of that to the DMCA i have yet to see this enforced on its own, all the news reports i have read of u.k modders going to court is when theyve done something else aswellt
QUOTE(pepe2004 @ Apr 3 2006, 07:25 PM)
It is great than this guy got in prison for eighteen months for modding consoles, now, if we can only give a death sentence to the guys than put him there things will be perfect.
Can you imagine?, in prison for eighteen months with rapers, murders, etc just for modding consoles, man, did I heard middle age here?, I'm serious. How will this guy get out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/uhh.gif)
He got one month for "The modification of games consoles, more commonly known as 'chipping', is a criminal offence and so is the possession of modified chips" which means he had modchips with the hacked bios on which is made from stolen code from m$ which, and lets face it, is illegal as it is stolen!
piracy is a crime! lets face it!
i used to chip boxes and i only ever let them go with the cromwell bios and no dash/apps but i would tell people where to start looking to complete the job (xbox-scene)!
I agree with clogicgmather on this one!
As for the other 17 months he could have recieved £100,000 worth of the stuff hence the long prison time! and again clogicgmather is right it is a crime!
Post by: juan_2006 on April 03, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: porfuse on April 03, 2006, 01:13:00 PM
Why is 'chipping' as mike would say so illegal ? not everyone does it just to copy games... i didnt mine so i could take advantage of the harddrive space for backups (UT-OH BACKUPS ! no no, backups of my legit data) There are other uses, and this "anti-piracy" LET ME SAVE THE WORLD ATTITUDES IM A GOOD CITIZEN are overreacting.
I feel bad for the guy.
Post by: bucko on April 03, 2006, 02:01:00 PM
It's cause there doing stupid things like this and not catching real criminals etc.
Post by: DrTek on April 03, 2006, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: CattyKid on April 03, 2006, 03:13:00 PM
QUOTE(porfuse @ Apr 3 2006, 01:20 PM)
i didnt mine so i could take advantage of the harddrive space for backups (UT-OH BACKUPS ! no no, backups of my legit data)
Well then you are breaking the law as well, at least if you live in the US. It is illegal to make a backup (yes backup, you actually OWN the game) of a game or DVD that you own because Copy Protection must be circumvented to do so. I don't write the laws... I think that is a crock as well.
What if this guy HAD only chipped and put the Cromwell BIOS on those chips, would he still be in trouble in the UK? And how does our BST not get in trouble for routinely selling modded consoles (no pirated games, but hacked bioses and also apps like XBMC).
Post by: throwingks on April 03, 2006, 03:27:00 PM
QUOTE(CattyKid @ Apr 3 2006, 02:13 PM)
Well then you are breaking the law as well, at least if you live in the US. It is illegal to make a backup (yes backup, you actually OWN the game) of a game or DVD that you own because Copy Protection must be circumvented to do so. I don't write the laws... I think that is a crock as well.
Post by: jha'dhur on April 03, 2006, 03:58:00 PM
Better get you a proxy because them Alphabet "boyz" are watching.........
Post by: Tribal Prophet on April 03, 2006, 04:20:00 PM
QUOTE(benthorne @ Apr 3 2006, 05:48 PM)
i used to chip boxes and i only ever let them go with the cromwell bios and no dash/apps but i would tell people where to start looking to complete the job (xbox-scene)!
I don't know if you realize it, but if they wanted to they could nail you for that for facilitating the piracy crime because you're helping people "complete the job" that you started. If you don't *actually* rob a bank, but you tell people who are going to rob it where to find out how to rob the back and give them help, you've now committed a crime. Now do you think that you deserve to spend time in prison for ANY number of months, or do you think that maybe these year + long sentences should maybe go to the rapists and murderers instead of you for helping people play copied games/homebrew stuff?
I'm not trying to pick a fight or flame or anything, and what you're doing/done is certainly not to the level that this guy was at, but in the eyes of the people who arrested him, you're probably close enough. That's the crappy part. From what you said, there's no way that you should be sharing cells with rapists, but if they had their way you would. The problem is that money talks, and these big companies pay-off dirty politicians (which is many of them) to make and enforce laws that they want.
Post by: MetalMickey on April 03, 2006, 04:32:00 PM
ELSPA and the like will try to spin this their own way every time. Really, xbox scene should know better. They need to get a news poster who understands the media, their representative bodies and the spin and propaganda they spew out.
Its bad enough with the sheep on here who go "omg, jail for an xecuter!", but when the editing staff get fooled by this crap, frankly its an embarrassment.
Post by: jha'dhur on April 03, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
Like: They do with ripoff drugs, bootleg movies and cable boxes.
I know that it is circumvention of DMCA which can be a felony.
But does my modchip money go to AL QEADA???????
Post by: throwingks on April 03, 2006, 04:47:00 PM
QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 3 2006, 03:40 PM)
But does my modchip money go to AL QEADA???????
Post by: bunghoolio on April 03, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: jha'dhur on April 03, 2006, 05:30:00 PM
QUOTE(bunghoolio @ Apr 3 2006, 06:28 PM)
I don't condone piracy but I think the punishment is ridiculous. As a comparrison, I saw a documentry on people trafficking in the Check Rebuplic of Modolva. A guy was sentenced to 5 Years inprisionment for the selling of women to Turkey for the purpose of forced prostitution. The charge was REDUCED to 5 MONTHS PROBATION (ie NO JAIL, OFFENDER WALKED FREE) because he had a good lawyer. Go figure???
MONEY talks BULLSHIT walks
Post by: porfuse on April 03, 2006, 05:51:00 PM
which refers to my school documents, and various other word and excel data files. There might even be some pictures on there.
fools.
Post by: throwingks on April 03, 2006, 05:57:00 PM
QUOTE(porfuse @ Apr 3 2006, 04:51 PM)
where did i ever say anything about games ? i said legit data...
which refers to my school documents, and various other word and excel data files. There might even be some pictures on there.
fools.
Good joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You run Excel and Word on your Xbox? You have a linux BIOS and Linux OS only on your Xbox? Shenanigans.
which refers to my school documents, and various other word and excel data files. There might even be some pictures on there.
fools.
Post by: Exobex on April 03, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
This guy got eighteen months for killing someone!
Justice, eh?
Besides, chipping a 1.6 only adds the same feature that already existed in 1.0-1.5 machines: a flashable BIOS chip. You can fit a chip and boot a retail BIOS off it, you can avoid fitting a chip and boot a modded BIOS off it. The existence of absence of a modchip should be irrelevant.
This post has been edited by Exobex: Apr 4 2006, 02:28 AM
Post by: FlashKick on April 03, 2006, 08:22:00 PM
Post by: Chamrock on April 04, 2006, 01:51:00 AM
Post by: Arvarden on April 04, 2006, 03:24:00 AM
I can only assume that British courts take theft of Data more seriously than burglary, shop lifting and in some cases murder. Only a few weeks ago a man was sentanced to 12 months for killing a minor while driving with out insurance and a driving licience.
If he was just sellling chips the courts have taken a harsh stand against this gentleman IMO but my guess is that he was also selling copied games as well as providing a chipping service.
David Hoang was arrested on 23rd February for handling stolen goods and ELSPA was called in to provide evidence at his court trial after the accused pleaded not guilty to additional charges of chipping offences.
I guess the moral of the story is don't sell your crap in a public shop and if you have no other way of selling your merchandise don't leave all your eggs in one basket.
Don't do the crime if you are not prepared to do the time.
Post by: benthorne on April 04, 2006, 05:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 4 2006, 11:24 AM)
If he was just sellling chips the courts have taken a harsh stand against this gentleman IMO but my guess is that he was also selling copied games as well as providing a chipping service.
NO ONE IS READING THIS PROPERLY!!!
He was handling stolen goods!!! This could have run into £100,000's worth of stuff!!!
There is nothing to say he was selling pirated games! And he only got ONE MONTH for the chipping/bios crime and 16 months for the handling of stolen goods!!!
Chipping is not illegal in the UK just the bios/apps, which is what he, has been done for! If he was only done for the chipping he would have probably got community service but they took into account the other offences!
So stop going on about how/why he got a long stretch IT WAS A MONTH FOR THE CHIPPING WITH ILLEGAL BIOS!!
Theis guy is still a criminal full stop!!!
QUOTE(Tribal Prophet @ Apr 4 2006, 12:20 AM)
I don't know if you realize it, but if they wanted to they could nail you for that for facilitating the piracy crime because you're helping people "complete the job" that you started. If you don't *actually* rob a bank, but you tell people who are going to rob it where to find out how to rob the back and give them help, you've now committed a crime. Now do you think that you deserve to spend time in prison for ANY number of months, or do you think that maybe these year + long sentences should maybe go to the rapists and murderers instead of you for helping people play copied games/homebrew stuff?
There is a big difference! This info is freely available on the Internet robbing a bank on the other hand isnt! No offence taken though I can see your point just a really bad example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Post by: PedrosPad on April 04, 2006, 06:02:00 AM
QUOTE(benthorne @ Apr 4 2006, 12:39 PM)
He was handling stolen goods!!! This could have run into £100,000's worth of stuff!!
Given the context of the article and the involvement of ELSPA, I think people are interpreting "handling stolen goods" to mean copies of the M$ BIOS. While this could be, I agree that it's much more likely to mean a truck load of physical evidence - ram raided consoles, etc..
This post has been edited by PedrosPad: Apr 4 2006, 01:06 PM
Post by: Jonld on April 04, 2006, 08:04:00 AM
Post by: Bizquick on April 04, 2006, 09:27:00 AM
Post by: Neoistheone2000 on April 05, 2006, 01:16:00 AM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ Apr 3 2006, 10:27 AM)
<p><strong>ELSPA assists in UK mod-chip conviction</strong>
-- Posted by XanTium on April 3 11:20 EST
From gamesindustry.biz:
Read More: gamesindustry.biz
</p>
A 22-year-old man has become the first person in the UK to be convicted for modifying a video games console.
The Cambridge graduate was sentenced at Caerphilly Magistrates' Court to 140 hours of community service.
The man had been selling modified Xbox consoles which he fitted with a big hard drive containing 80 games.
the last part of this is what he did wrong he sold 80 copied games (witch he probly downloaded) and then mad a profit off i dont think they placed him in prison for just putting a mod chip in the system i think he just broke 80 copyrights i dont know what u all think? java script:emoticon(':unsure:', 'smid_21')
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Post by: irishwhip on April 07, 2006, 04:08:00 PM
(cellphones, cable boxes etc)
he never even made any attempt to hide his activities, and i'm surprised his business survived so long,
considering ilford police station is 5 minutes away from his premises
This post has been edited by irishwhip: Apr 7 2006, 11:12 PM