Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 05:21:00 AM
>>
| QUOTE |
By Wolfgang Gruener, Senior Editor - Tom's Hardware November 15, 2004 - 13:54 EST Chicago (IL) - Members of a former software cracking group have discovered that audio files created with one of its cracked programs are distributed with each copy of the Windows XP operating system, possibly exposing MS to a large-scale copyright infringement lawsuit. The content in question can be found on every computer with Windows XP as operating system installed. Nine WAV audio files located in the folder " "Help\Tours\WindowsMediaPlayer\Audio\Wav" in the Windows installation directory include a signature of "Deepz0ne", a member of former cracking group "Radium". If the files are opened not with an audio player, but with a HEX editor or simply in Windows' own text editor Notepad, the last line displays as "000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5". (IMG:http://www.pictures.xbox-scene.com/hsdemonz/MS-Uses-Pirated-Soundforge-Software/Sniper-small.jpg) Click for Large Picture A source confirmed to Tom's Hardware Guide, that the signature is "authentic for the cracked version of Sound Forge 4.5" and relates to the cracker Deepz0ne. "The Radium group has been dissolved about four years ago, but still meets every week in a casual manner," the source said. "One of the members circulated the information at a birthday part last weekend and then pitched the story apparently to Germany's PC Welt magazine," he said. PC Welt published the story the same day. |
News-Source and Full Story: www.tomshardware.com
Independantly verified and picture credit Sniperkilla
UPDATE:
MS's hyprocacy is even funnier than Tom's Article suggests..
| QUOTE |
Ballmer (MS Executive), speaking in Singapore at MS's Asian Government Leaders Forum, said that Linux violated more than 228 patents. He did not provide any detail on the alleged violations, which the Linux community disputes. "Someday, for all countries that are entering the WTO (World Trade Organization), somebody will come and look for money owing to the rights for that intellectual property," he added. |
News-Source and full story: www.CNN.com
MS should keep it's nose clean before looking to pick someone elses nose.
(November 24 07:54 EST) <
Post by: NerdENerd on November 24, 2004, 05:32:00 AM
I am sure that many big companies have been unaware that content they have paid contactors to create for them was made with pirated tools.
There is absolutely no way in the world that any project manager who contracts an external supplier to create content is going to be able to audit the licencing of the tools used to create the content supplied to them.
So the fact that content supplied to MS has the signature DeepzOne in it when viewed by a hex editor means that MS are all of a sudden software pirates.
I am no MS lover but you MS bashers really love an excuse to abuse MS.
P.S. How many of you bashers are reading this in IE on your pirate version of Windows XP?
This post has been edited by NerdENerd: Nov 25 2004, 03:39 AM <
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 05:35:00 AM
It's up to them to QC everything. If Sony brings in the big guns.. ultimately.. MS will be the ones with their wallets open. (they may later go after "any" subcontractors.
As I noted in the news.. MS spend far too much time pointing fingers.. instead of keeping their own hands clean. <
Post by: Xtrem on November 24, 2004, 06:07:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 10:32 AM) |
| As I noted in the news.. MS spend far too much time pointing fingers.. instead of keeping their own hands clean. |
I'm With You 110% ! <
Post by: chefelf on November 24, 2004, 06:25:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 10:32 AM) |
| If Sony brings in the big guns.. ultimately.. MS will be the ones with their wallets open. |
It's probably a matter of "When?" rather than "If?" ;) Sony would be foolish to let MS get away with this, particularly after MS has intruded onto their console gaming market.
This story delights me far more than it should. :) I bet MS is wishing Sony hadn't bought Sonic Foundry. <
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 06:28:00 AM
Post by: alagares on November 24, 2004, 06:54:00 AM
My wife says that the possible legal complications in this case are that MS will get a big lawsuit and the employer who created the files will probably face criminal charges. <
Post by: jthoboston on November 24, 2004, 06:55:00 AM
Post by: chefelf on November 24, 2004, 06:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 11:25 AM) |
| MS will probably solve this problem like they do most.. and just purchase the sonic foundary Product/division from Sony. |
:lol:
I can only imagine the happiness felt by ther person who discovered this. Can you imagine the sheer delight you would feel as you uncovered this? :) <
Post by: Baner on November 24, 2004, 07:03:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| They probably got these files form somehwere else or an outside contractor |
That's the thing tho, they're using the files to make money.
A. The copy was pirated
B. It's Sony's.
C. It's M$
I'd do everything in my power to screw over M$ if I was Sony. <
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 07:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (jthoboston @ Nov 24 2004, 11:52 AM) |
| nothings going to come of this. 9 sound files which were created on pirated copies of sound forge? They probably got these files form somehwere else or an outside contractor. QA doesnt go through the hex values in a sound file, at least i wouldnt think so. |
When you are MS.. and you have as much money, time and manpower involved in projects like their OS.. you have someone who oversees the projects.. and ensures everything is kosher.
MS fucked up. Plain and simple.
Now.. what we need.. is for someone else to start combing the files.. and see what else MS lifted.
Rumours of them lifting open source had been around a long time. Time to find it.
I imagine if files made with pirate copies of Sound Foundary are in the OS.. imagine what other files made with pirate software might be waiting to be found.
It's clear that one of 2 things have happened.. MS dev team slipped up on their due diligence and protocol by allowing this to slip in there.. or they blatantly allowed it.
People will be fired.. and hopefully Sony give them a black eye. <
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 07:07:00 AM
Steve Balmer "at MS.. we don't condone piracy in any shape or form.. unless it's us using other people's pirated software, or our subcontrators using others pirated software.."
course.. he'd only say that is we had Woinder Woman's lasso of truth wrapped around him. <
Post by: chefelf on November 24, 2004, 07:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (jthoboston @ Nov 24 2004, 11:52 AM) |
| nothings going to come of this. 9 sound files which were created on pirated copies of sound forge? They probably got these files form somehwere else or an outside contractor. QA doesnt go through the hex values in a sound file, at least i wouldnt think so. |
Of course something will come of this. If you buy a car that ends up being stolen does that mean you get to keep the car if the authorities track it down? Of course not, and that's just something on a very small scale.
MS messed up big. MS gets sued on a daily basis. This will bring forth legal action, there is no doubt. Sony will not just let this slide. They'd be stupid if they did. People are always looking for reasons to take legal action against MS. They're one of the richest corporations in the world, so even getting a settlement from them is something.
This will end up costing MS quite a bit of money but, one would imagine, they will be largely unaffected in the long term. <
Post by: Baner on November 24, 2004, 07:17:00 AM
Post by: PITABoy on November 24, 2004, 07:17:00 AM
Post by: Baner on November 24, 2004, 08:12:00 AM
Post by: Yuyu on November 24, 2004, 08:22:00 AM
I hope MS turns it around and finds some dirt to kick up on Sony.
I like MS and their products have always served me well. Seems like an old rap/ghetto saying is most feasible when people try to bitch and moan about MS and their dominance... "Don't hate the player, hate the game"
It's not MS's fault they are so good at being capitalist in this society we have created, is it?
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 08:39:00 AM
I do however think that their high horse they ride around on is made of soft pine.. as it's clear they don't give a shit about intelellectual property.. especially as it pertains to OTHERS intellectual property.
Time and again we've seen them bully and bruise their way around. Thast's fine.. that big business.
What gives people the squirts.. is the hyprocacy of their statements.. versus their actions.
"don't steal our products" they cry... and then we see this.
Is MS Evil? hell no. Are they full of shit? Damn straight.
Post by: Baner on November 24, 2004, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: delacruz on November 24, 2004, 09:16:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 05:42 PM) |
| I like MS.. and I sure don't think of them as the evil empire. I do however think that their high horse they ride around on is made of soft pine.. as it's clear they don't give a shit about intelellectual property.. especially as it pertains to OTHERS intellectual property. Time and again we've seen them bully and bruise their way around. Thast's fine.. that big business. What gives people the squirts.. is the hyprocacy of their statements.. versus their actions. "don't steal our products" they cry... and then we see this. Is MS Evil? hell no. Are they full of shit? Damn straight. |
thats true i used to think of M$ as evil but since ive taken many economics classes at my university I concluded that thats the nature of the beast. Firms/Corporations dont give a shit about anyone or anything but there profits. And i agree with PITABoy M$ are big fat powerful rich smart hypocrits. Wait maybe not smart anymore, i just think they have alot of explaining to do. Which I personally will find very interesting/humorous.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 09:22:00 AM
| QUOTE (GraffitiDan @ Nov 24 2004, 01:14 PM) |
| Hold on... Since when did XS become the next Slashdot? I don't come here to hear Linux vs. MS propaganda, or any other random M$ notables. I come to hear about xbox related news items. I can understand this being talked about on the forums, especially in the off topic forums, but it doesn't need to take up space on the front page. That should be reserved for truely xbox specific news items. -Dan |
We have no intention of being the next Slashdot.
However.. Xbox-Scene is a hobby site for us that run it. We keep 99% of the stories on topic.. however, when something in the technology scene happenes that strikes our interest that we (me or Xan) deem newsworthy or of interest.. we make an exception and post it.
If you look carefully at our 3 years plus of news archive.. you will see this isn't the first.. nor will it be the last such exception.
People who take the view that nothing outside a narrow view should be posted on XS news.. they probably should get their heads our of their narrow little tight asses and relax.
With all due respect of course.
We value the opinion of our members.. but we will post what we deem to be news worthy. We aren't bound by a tablet of 10 reules or decrees that limits what we can deem newsworthy.
We also take the opposing view.. that sometimes what you or others deem newsworthy.. we don't.. and won't post.
That might not make us popular to the select few who whine or bitch.... but then again.. this isn't a popularity contest for me or Xan.
It's a hobby. Get over it.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 09:26:00 AM
| QUOTE (GraffitiDan @ Nov 24 2004, 01:18 PM) |
| Exactly, they've reported on them, not brought straight up opinions into the news items. Some things aren't meant to be brought out to the front page is all I'm saying. -Dan |
hmm..
I'll give you that.. I'll consider withdrawing that comment. I've never been shy about expressing an independant mind.. nor my opinion.. but I do see your point on that matter.
HSD is not perfect.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 09:29:00 AM
We still got the unabridged and uncensored news post here in this thread for those less anal.
Post by: GraffitiDan on November 24, 2004, 09:36:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 06:32 PM) |
| I've removed the dirty nose comments from the news page post.. but I've left the hyprocracy comments. That's as good as it'll get. |
Keep up the other good posts, this site is invaluable.
-Dan
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 09:38:00 AM
(tightass)
Post by: futbol4kee on November 24, 2004, 09:50:00 AM
Post by: kof69 on November 24, 2004, 10:03:00 AM
Post by: BlackWar on November 24, 2004, 10:09:00 AM
| QUOTE |
!1 ÏÈ ð sáÑ@ 0®ï0!äÒ "1?nã¿ß !áÿñ MÂ/lá³ O÷Ñ=à C éý ðîó Ï;]þð /1 Rôñ ûÜ àÎ B ìÝÐÆñ`ó§ñ O ß0 Ïý GóÁð °áñ&b þÜ !ñÔ11àa .þà Þa'â áP Á Ó´ðO|ÿ A 3 * õX ·d- ±à0A460 <:? ðÑÓ£Ó @AB5 ®ÁÁâô 232E" </"âÁÂ9 QBRÍ°ÏÞ 01@5% )M ðáäÁÁÃ^:/ /î@q f ðáÀà ì1ð ààðóãðâ @`@ ï̽лÿ /: ï¯ïàðââàðð ÿSAóáßÀ¯Üà#51O ð>=àÁ$3ð M</ 6Sr2 Ñß¾°Ýñ$$0, ò;]äåõTà°þðàÀrb ðôåðþÎÐó Eg * " ð LISTB INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5 |
this is funny as hell!
Post by: julio9 on November 24, 2004, 10:17:00 AM
All of a sudden, windows XP tells me my configuration has changed, and I need to re-activate my account. On top of that, it said my CD key could not be used more than once.
So I call their damn customer help IN INDIA, and the dude told me my key couldn't be re-used. I tried to explain it was the same machine, but got too pissed off to continue talking to that idiot, and hung up.
So I downloaded a keygen, and got it working that way. Assholes. I really don't care about whether or not they get sued, but I hope this gets published world-wide to give 'em a big slap in the face.
Post by: wasting on November 24, 2004, 10:18:00 AM
Post by: EverythingButAnAnswer on November 24, 2004, 10:25:00 AM
Post by: ipodder2003 on November 24, 2004, 10:26:00 AM
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 10:33:00 AM
So cut him some slack.. as he is right.
I heard about it before Toms' posted.. but normally don't care about that stuff. Sniperkilla today brought it back up to my attention.. with the pictures.. and I felt it warranted a posting at that point.
Post by: powercntrl on November 24, 2004, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: ipodder2003 on November 24, 2004, 10:37:00 AM
I have a media center PC, and I was curious if the files were present on my PC as well. Sure enough, wordpad revealed the truth.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 10:48:00 AM
| QUOTE (powercntrl @ Nov 24 2004, 02:39 PM) |
| This is actually closer to the whole issue of running binaries on the Xbox that were created with a pirated copy of the XDK. MS isn't distributing pirated software or even pirated audio, running a sound recording through a pirated copy of SoundForge does not forfeit your copyright of the audio you have created. It's like MS built a house using a hammer that was stolen from Home Depot. The house is perfectly legit, but they owe Home Depot for the hammer. |
Actually.. no.
It goes deeper than that. It's more like they would owe for the derivitive works produced with the software they didn't license.
The derivitive works being any files in the OS Retail packages that hack one or more files made with the pirated software.
This is the defence (partial) that Sony's corporate lawyers will put forth.
(assuming they bother)
Sony.. like MS.. has deep pockets.. and can run the court system equally as well. People who like to see giants clash will want to see Sony take on MS on this issue.
If left untouched.. it leaves the door open for other future instances of similar abuse.
MS could use someones elses third party WMV encoder cause it gets better audio compression and fidelity.. despite WMV being their house format.. if MS were to use someone elses product unlicenced and make these "other" WMV files with better compression and fidelity it's the same kettle of fish all over again. MS sitting bare assed on the face of others intellectual property and taking a crap.
Reason I mention the WMV issue.. is that I've had far better experiences with other peoples encoders than MS own encoder.. and I'm sure MS eyes those other encoders.. looking for algorythm's and whatnot they can mimic or lift outright. So much great software on the net isn't even protected..
Post by: HSDEMONZ on November 24, 2004, 10:52:00 AM
wonder who else has used that same cracked copy to make audio files..
any bored enough to check their entire drives of *cough* software?
Post by: EmperorPsiblade on November 24, 2004, 11:03:00 AM
they are screwed now....
Post by: powercntrl on November 24, 2004, 11:10:00 AM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 01:51 PM) |
| Actually.. no. It goes deeper than that. It's more like they would owe for the derivitive works produced with the software they didn't license. The derivitive works being any files in the OS Retail packages that hack one or more files made with the pirated software. This is the defence (partial) that Sony's corporate lawyers will put forth. (assuming they bother) Sony.. like MS.. has deep pockets.. and can run the court system equally as well. People who like to see giants clash will want to see Sony take on MS on this issue. If left untouched.. it leaves the door open for other future instances of similar abuse. MS could use someones elses third party WMV encoder cause it gets better audio compression and fidelity.. despite WMV being their house format.. if MS were to use someone elses product unlicenced and make these "other" WMV files with better compression and fidelity it's the same kettle of fish all over again. MS sitting bare assed on the face of others intellectual property and taking a crap. Reason I mention the WMV issue.. is that I've had far better experiences with other peoples encoders than MS own encoder.. and I'm sure MS eyes those other encoders.. looking for algorythm's and whatnot they can mimic or lift outright. So much great software on the net isn't even protected.. |
And you wouldn't like to see that shot down? I happen to think MS is in the right here. If you write a novel in MS Word, whether you paid for Word or pirated it should have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on whether you can publish your novel.
Using an audio editor is not creating a derivitive work, any more than building a house is a derivitive work of a hammer. The hammer was simply used as a tool in construction, no part of the hammer's design becomes incorperated into the finished product. Extending this analogy further, it was probably wrong for me to compare this situation to the XDK since it probably incorperates MS's proprietary IP into the finished binary.
A wave file is audio data and a header with a codec descriptor and some plaintext comments. There is no way any of Sony's proprietary IP would be put into a wave file. While I agree MS should have to pay for the software, they do not owe "substancial infringing damages" because the wave files copyright still belongs to MS. No musician would EVER use an audio editor with a licence that considered its output files to be a derivitive work.
Post by: bucko on November 24, 2004, 11:33:00 AM
Post by: PITABoy on November 24, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
Post by: Extreme Agony on November 24, 2004, 01:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (powercntrl @ Nov 24 2004, 02:39 PM) |
| running a sound recording through a pirated copy of SoundForge does not forfeit your copyright of the audio you have created. It's like MS built a house using a hammer that was stolen from Home Depot. The house is perfectly legit, but they owe Home Depot for the hammer. I think this makes some hilarious press, but MS really only owes Sony for one copy of Sound Forge. If I go to RadioShack, shoplift a Mic and lay down a dope freestyle mix on my computer, compress it to MP3 with a copy of the LAME binary (which is in violation of patent laws, BTW) and post it online, it's still my song to which I hold the copyright to, regardless of the tools I used to create it not being properly licenced/paid for |
| QUOTE (powercntrl @ Nov 24 2004, 03:13 PM) |
| If you write a novel in MS Word, whether you paid for Word or pirated it should have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on whether you can publish your novel. Using an audio editor is not creating a derivitive work, any more than building a house is a derivitive work of a hammer. The hammer was simply used as a tool in construction, no part of the hammer's design becomes incorperated into the finished product. Extending this analogy further, it was probably wrong for me to compare this situation to the XDK since it probably incorperates MS's proprietary IP into the finished binary. A wave file is audio data and a header with a codec descriptor and some plaintext comments. There is no way any of Sony's proprietary IP would be put into a wave file. While I agree MS should have to pay for the software, they do not owe "substancial infringing damages" because the wave files copyright still belongs to MS. No musician would EVER use an audio editor with a licence that considered its output files to be a derivitive work |
I couldn't agree with these 2 posts more.
The story is interesting and looking at the files with notepad to see the text in there is rather funny as well. However, just as powercntrl stated, MS still owns the rights to the audio files, despite that they were created with a pirated version of the Sound Forge software...
Good story and discussion...
Post by: Baner on November 24, 2004, 01:24:00 PM
Post by: shanafan on November 24, 2004, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: bourke on November 24, 2004, 08:40:00 PM
If you do not use the copyrighted M$ libraries then your xbe files are legit :-)
It's about time somone 'hacked' up some library files that do the same job as the M$ ones but that don't have their sigs on them ;-)
Shouldn't be too difficult :-P
Post by: mike96sc2 on November 24, 2004, 09:14:00 PM
Nothing is going to happen. Nobody really cares. Well Geeks care, but whatever.Screw $ony, they shut down Bleem!Cast
Post by: EthanHunt_IMF on November 24, 2004, 11:44:00 PM
| QUOTE (chefelf @ Nov 24 2004, 10:22 AM) |
| This story delights me far more than it should. I bet MS is wishing Sony hadn't bought Sonic Foundry. |
This story also put a smile on my face.
What would be funnier is if MS were the ones that bought Sonic Foundry and they used a pirated version of their own software to create the wav's.
| QUOTE |
| The story is interesting and looking at the files with notepad to see the text in there is rather funny as well. However, just as powercntrl stated, MS still owns the rights to the audio files, despite that they were created with a pirated version of the Sound Forge software... |
I think the matter at hand is more that pirated software was used to create the wav's not that the wav's themselves belong to Sony/Sonic Foundry. Lets say you are using a pirated version of XP, as long as you don't create anything with it, does this mean you can legally use it? I would say no, as it's still considered software theft. And whether it's MS or the sub contractor, someone is responsible.
Post by: SkateAndDestroy on November 25, 2004, 12:48:00 PM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Nov 24 2004, 05:04 PM) |
| MS new motto: Steve Balmer "at MS.. we don't condone piracy in any shape or form.. unless it's us using other people's pirated software, or our subcontrators using others pirated software.." course.. he'd only say that is we had Woinder Woman's lasso of truth wrapped around him. |
lmao,
this is one of the funniest news stories of the year