Post by: Banj on May 23, 2004, 08:49:00 AM
I'd like to express the distinction between America and Americans. When people post pro/con opinions about the current conflict in the Middle East, they have a tendency to pigeon-hole all Americans as America, especially when talking negatively. I am guilty of this myself and would like to apologise to anyone who has misconstrued my posts as 'anti-American'. I assure you I am not, I take every individual as I find them regardless of patronage. I will endevour in the future to not stereotype Americans as pro conflict and I'm sorry for any misunderstandings.
I see more and more 'anti-American' sentiment posted on here and I think it's time someone drew the definitions clearly, if people in here can't communicate clearly then how can we comment negatively about our leaders lack thereof.
Thank you.
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 09:01:00 AM
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 23, 2004, 09:08:00 AM
| QUOTE (DasHelghast @ May 23 2004, 06:01 PM) |
| Ah, how quaint. Fuck you bigot. |
Wow...he was trying to show people that not everyone in the US believes in what America is doing. Therefore, like America (not Americans
) stereotypes Iraqi's as terrorists, we are stereotyping all Americans as dumb, violent, non-sensical bunch of blumbering morons listening to an even more idiotic president.Good Work, Banj. You're one of the few Americans I sort of maybe like.
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 09:17:00 AM
.P.S. It's always easiest to hate the big guy.
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 09:33:00 AM
Yes indeed, I'm a die hard conservative fascist brainwashed by Herr Bush to blindly obey his every command, I am his sheep, Herr Bush is my sheepard. Or wait, could it be that I am bleeding heart liberal programmed by the femnazis to hate anything and everything suggested by Herr Bush, because anything suggested by him is corrupt, and will only drive our country to war, and ultimately its destruction. Or am I a moderate? 
. Maybe it's because I realized having an opinion on the internet, means about as much has having an opinion in the real world, often times no one gives a shit, so who cares what I believe? I certainly don't care what you have to say, you can "debate" all you want with me, my opinion will not change. This is fun isn't it.
Post by: self on May 23, 2004, 09:52:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| You are so right aren't you! Yes indeed, I'm a die hard conservative fascist brainwashed by Herr Bush to blindly obey his every command, I am his sheep, Herr Bush is my sheepard. Or wait, could it be that I am bleeding heart liberal programmed by the femnazis to hate anything and everything suggested by Herr Bush, because anything suggested by him is corrupt, and will only drive our country to war, and ultimately its destruction. Or am I a moderate? . Maybe it's because I realized having an opinion on the internet, means about as much has having an opinion in the real world, often times no one gives a shit, so who cares what I believe? I certainly don't care what you have to say, you can "debate" all you want with me, my opinion will not change. This is fun isn't it. |
The problem is you don't bring up a single argument as to why you are right. I'm forced to belive that you don't have any. If you don't know why you have the opinions you do, why do you have them?
Banj just brought up a good point about there's a differnce between 'America' and 'Americans'. It's not something you can disagree with, yet you just had to drag the whole thread into the gutter by telling him to fuck himself.
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 09:55:00 AM
| QUOTE (self @ May 23 2004, 06:52 PM) |
| yet you just had to drag the whole thread into the gutter by telling him to fuck himself. |
You see how easy it is.
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 23, 2004, 11:18:00 AM
Post by: Banj on May 23, 2004, 12:59:00 PM
I'm not American by the way, I'm English.
Post by: DasHelghast on May 23, 2004, 01:06:00 PM
| QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ May 23 2004, 08:18 PM) |
| Way to douche it out Helghast, you sure to make one good vagina cleaning bag. |
My compliments to the chef.
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 23, 2004, 06:36:00 PM
DasHelghast i read your posts and you didnt establish a point what so ever? there a reason to start a flame war...
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 07:04:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 10:47 PM) |
| Unless the "enemies" of America are Iraqis in general, this war is harming far more than Americas enemies. It's even hurting American citizens at home, in case you hadn't noticed global opinion of America isn't so high, fighting these unjust wars and all. When the world begins to hate your country, that is when its people are truly at risk. The idea of there being an absolute enemy is ridiculous, we are making these enemies with our own actions (yes, I do mean the war. Don't twist my words) Enemies of America.. such a great term coined by paranoia and war mongering. One more reason there should be propaganda analysis in schools today. |
I'm going to let you in on some little secrets: terrorists hated america before any american soldier ever set foot in Iraq. European elitists and hippies hated war long before george w bush became the president.
"The World" isn't beginning to hate anything.
The enemies of america are those who wish to murder the people of america, and they've been doing it for thirty years.
You are a fool with a below average IQ. You are a victim of media bias and spin, and you stand as a rebuke to all forms of logic and reason. Your opinion is based on idiocy and conjecture, and the gene pool would benefit greatly from your death.
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 07:13:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| So, because there are those that have always hated America, it's okay to run around angering them without any right? |
The US didn't invade Iraq to "anger" anyone. The US invaded Iraq to depose a dictator who was a threat to his own people, as well as the people of the world - militarily and economically.
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| And, because there are those that have always hated war, it's okay to start needless wars despite those opposing it? |
Yes, it is okay. If the traditional hippie anti-war crowd were in charge, we'd be driving solar power golf carts and eating grass. Just because the peace movement has picked up steam (amazing how no one complained when Clinton violated the UN and deployed troops to the balkans twice), doesn't make it any more relevant. Foreign policy shouldn't be based on the will of an ignorant minority.
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| You'll have to forgive my below average IQ, apparently I have no logic or reason. Explain to me the logic in starting unjust wars despite the wishes of the world? |
Because the "wished of the world" contradict the wishes of the united states, and the united states has a duty to protect its citizens, regardless of what "the world" apparently thinks. I don't know which world you're speaking of, unless it's some world made entirely of the french. There was nothing unjust about the Iraq war, unless of course you're an idiot, because then you can just say anything you want is unjust - without any reason.
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 11:11 PM) |
| Explain to me why an Iraqi life is any less valuable than an American? Why is your life, who obviously feels very strongly against the Iraqi public, is any different than an Iraqi feeling strongly against America? |
Iraqi lives and American lives are worth the same, and the war in Iraq has protected both Iraqi and American lives. I don't feel anything agsint the Iraqi public, they were an oppressed people, and now they've been given a chance to live freely again as they did under the old Iraqi monarchy. I know many Iraqi-Americans, and I have yet to hear any of them say anything against the war.
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 23, 2004, 07:19:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| and the gene pool would benefit greatly from your death. |
murdering all people that have a different view makes u a bit to much like hitler...
/laughs like hell since he just watched south park [kyle watches the passion]
| QUOTE |
| begins to hate your country, that is when its people are truly at risk |
BEGINS? did u miss 9/11? people hate us and probably always will. and im guessing you want us to leave iraq right now? considering we have pissed them of already i dont see why we shouldnt finish and then get the hell out of there. leaving now wouldnt help anything. and we wont leave not with the bush up for re-election soon
Post by: nemt on May 23, 2004, 07:24:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 23 2004, 11:19 PM) |
| You bring up a good point. My view on the world has changed, I don't see how I or any other person could ever refute that work of genious you have so generously crafted for my reading. |
For future reference:
When I write "formatting," (I understand this is a larger word than someone of your intellect is used to) it means I posted once to get the full quote tag, and am formatting the post to respond to each individual part of the quote, instead of one big quote and one big reply. It's easier on the eyes.
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 23, 2004, 07:33:00 PM
What about all the bombings and terrorist activity conducted by AMERICANS on American soil? What bout the Uni-Bomber (think that's how you spell it). Why did the US not crack down on at-home terrorism and take precautions to make sure events like that were not repeated.
What of the school shootings? Has there been any real progress done in that field. Schools have put metal detectors in their halls, but I believe that is all.
Furthermore, you assume everyone to be an enemy. It will be a day of reawakening, and sadness, when everyone assumes America to be the enemy.
When you piss off all the dorks on the playground, even if you are the biggest damn bully, you're in for one hell of a fight. Let's look at what happened with the Revolutionary War. That was over taxes. This is over RELIGION. Do you think Iraqi's will succumb and forfeit their beliefs. (I realize you are not forcing them to do this. But it is the mindset many Iraqi's have). When Britain sent over troops to the US across great distances and the colonies united. Britain ended up losing. Same thing in Vietnam, with the US losing. I realize times have changed, and technology has advanced. But, circumstances are similar. Furthermore, you do not fully grasp the situation. Perhaps you have a friend of family member in Iraq. Perhaps you feel proud that they are serving their country and therefore you must defend the war. But, even I must feel sorry for you if your friend comes back in a body bag and a few years later you find out the war was not justified. It will be a sad day when you finally realize you are wrong. Maybe then you will finally understand our viewpoint. I am afraid I will never understand yours. You look at death and wrong-doings with delusions of grandeur (sry for the big words, it means looking at them like they are of great importance and something to be proud of).
And....I am too a byproduct of media and spin? When I am not subject to your media? When I research and read and inform myself. Does knowing the true facts and giving them putting a spin on your false reality cause me to in turn be bias and a liar? Like, I said. I no longer really hate you, I rather pity you.
Today, you may look at the following statement without compassion and remark crudely to it. But, how will you feel when you realize you supported the death of millions of people, both US and foreign? Will you not relent until your own President admits he is wrong?
I fear people like you, with itchy trigger fingers and irrational view points are on the side of the US. You are the stereotypical American that the world hates. Your arguments for your actions are not disputing the truth, they are simply saying "I can do this, so I will." I wonder if you will feel the same if, or when, you are in Iraq. If you feel so strongly for the war...why haven't you you volunteered? Could it be that we are all talking to someone under the age of 18? Are you so willing to argue your principles online, to support death and war, and yet unwilling to enact your principles? To stop this war, and show the world, no, to show just America how wrong they are....I would give my life. To stop the death of millions, my life would be a small sacrifice. Maybe you feel the same way. To stop the terrorists you would give your life no? But, answer me this: Why aim for the low time terrorists that prove little or no threat to the US? Why not immediately and effectively terminate the leaders, the ones with the influence to do something.
Take this for example. If I wanted to shutdown xbox-scene. Would I go after individual posters, making each one leave one by one? Or would I rather take down the leaders and moderators. Take down the scripter, take down the updaters. This in essence would stop the posters. The former method of stopping the posters is what I believe the US to be doing in Iraq. It is a lengthy and wasteful process that causes alot of death on both sides. The latter method would be more effective, and less hateful to the world.
There you have it. I have given you much to think about, if you are worthy of compassion. However, if you regard my words in immature form, then you will find no message until it is too late. I believe this, if answered correctly from nemt, would prove that all he says is pure nonsense. After all, if he is under 18, then his opinion cannot fully grasp the world, and therefore is irrelevant. If he is older than 18, it would seem he is a man who is unwilling to stand up for his morals. Would you die to spread death? I would die to stop it.
Post by: Intensecure on May 23, 2004, 07:42:00 PM
The only time that sometimes people in countries other than the US get disturbed and annoyed by "Americans" rather than America is the comments of people like nemt, who lacks in coherence what he evidently lacks in understanding.
| QUOTE |
| The enemies of america are those who wish to murder the people of america, and they've been doing it for thirty years. You are a fool with a below average IQ. You are a victim of media bias and spin, and you stand as a rebuke to all forms of logic and reason. Your opinion is based on idiocy and conjecture, and the gene pool would benefit greatly from your death. |
I mean, anyone who thinks like that, has opinions like that has been educated solely by TV
I am sure there will be some equally clever rebuttal from him/her, but others here might care to read and comment on the above.
And wonder why "some" Americans seem to have a persecution complex.
Post by: Banj on May 24, 2004, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: TheSheerPowerofIndustrialMight on May 24, 2004, 12:34:00 PM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 24 2004, 06:47 PM) |
| hmmm, not really the responses I was hoping for. It seems I can't be taken seriously when I try and bridge any gaps that may exist in peoples mind. Debates in a forum will never be productive without getting over the 'us versus them' mentality, and the same goes for the war. |
Now you see.
Post by: melon on May 25, 2004, 11:32:00 AM
nemt, dashelg do you find it funny?
and nemt has the gall to question somebody elses iq!