Post by: BloodyMary on May 15, 2004, 04:32:00 PM
Ok, now all you American hating Europeans come on out and call me an arogant prick... it really doesn't matter, the truth is if we always just stayed home... and minded our own business... well... make of it what you will...
I am proud to be an American... no I don't always agree with the political and military measures that U.S. government takes, but at the same time, I know there were plenty of U.S. citizens that were totally against the U.S. getting involved in WWII... and they were wrong...
Ok so all you Europeans who hate Americans... GO FUCK OFF.. you self righteous FUCKS
Post by: Ween311 on May 15, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
Post by: IndieSnob on May 15, 2004, 07:31:00 PM
//This post was utter b.s. but instead sarcasmn because I can't tell you just how moronic the statements the original poster made.
Post by: Intensecure on May 15, 2004, 09:04:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| //This post was utter b.s. but instead sarcasmn because I can't tell you just how moronic the statements the original poster made. |
We could also draw up a map of where the democratic states in Central and South America would be if it were not for the US funded death squads in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala.
The 2 million dead in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos?
East Timor and the US support for Indonesia?
Afghanistan?
The overthrow of legitimate governments around the world - I know, ASSUMPTION, read a few books and you will find facts.
You evidently suffer from cognitive dissonance, or are too emotionally involved to construct rational arguments.
You also fail to understand the consequences of American failures in policy during the WW2 that led to the partition of Germany and the onset of the cold war, which was propagated by the US, not by the USSR.
I can sit here and dig out references to resources, but I am not writing a thesis on this for your benefit.
To even answer back to someone whose logical argument descends to
| QUOTE |
| Ok so all you Europeans who hate Americans... GO FUCK OFF.. you self righteous FUCKS |
is perhaps a waste of time, but there may be other, more rational people who read this thread and have valid opinions.
I think the American people are, by and large, some of the finest anywhere. My family has lived in the US for the last 20 years, although I live elsewhere and am British/European.
But 50% of every tax dollar in the US is spent on defence related industry. Only 11% of Americans have passports (true, DYOR) so one cannot say that they have been exposed to a greater level of other cultures than that which they watch on cable TV (I repeat, not ALL, just some). Literacy in the US is at a lower level than almost any other industrialised nation.
I could continue, but I would be wasting my time debating with your closed mind.
Let those more receptive consider the issues.-
Title: Funny How So Many Criticize.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 15, 2004, 10:07:00 PM
-
I think the American people are, by and large, some of the finest anywhere. My family has lived in the US for the last 20 years, although I live elsewhere and am British/European.
But 50% of every tax dollar in the US is spent on defence related industry. Only 11% of Americans have passports (true, DYOR) so one cannot say that they have been exposed to a greater level of other cultures than that which they watch on cable TV (I repeat, not ALL, just some). Literacy in the US is at a lower level than almost any other industrialised nation.
I could continue, but I would be wasting my time debating with your closed mind.
Let those more receptive consider the issues.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 15, 2004, 10:07:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| But 50% of every tax dollar in the US is spent on defence related industry. |
Defense research provided you with the internet. via research done at MIT. So to summarize in short, pay your taxes, use some to research better tech/weapons so we kick ass in our wars and still provide money to educate those not fighting the war? sounds cool to me.
Billions and billions of dollars are granted to schools for various projects, yes, maybe defense related (see robot race), but the resulting tech is much like the billions we spend on NASA too, both provide better stuff for the civilian world. Navigate your boat, car or use one of those personal locators via GPS lately?
| QUOTE |
| Literacy in the US is at a lower level than almost any other industrialised nation |
Seeing how our motto is to accept people from all over the world without having to be rich, educated, or politically motivated... i would expect us to have a high illiteracy rate. If i went to Germany, i would be an illiterate schmuck too.
| QUOTE |
| Only 11% of Americans have passports (true, DYOR) so one cannot say that they have been exposed to a greater level of other cultures than that which they watch on cable TV (I repeat, not ALL, just some). |
true. But I HAVE been to many countries and if you gave me the choice to stay in the US, or the choice to live in smart-ass literate england, chicken shit france, bullied spain, punked germany or the currently liberated Iraq. I would take the US any day and every time. I wouldnt trade living here for anything. Yet at the same time, I would be willing to help you take out a jerk that keeps you from having the same freedom, or do it for you if dont have any combat boots.
Post by: lordvader129 on May 15, 2004, 10:17:00 PM
the french monarchy was legit too, i guess they should have left well enough alone (whats a little opression anyway?)
well ATM im too tired come up with valic intelligent comments, so rather than rant and rave some ignorant crap ill just post this, lol
Post by: gronne on May 15, 2004, 11:57:00 PM
Why should we not hate USA? You involved yourselves in Vietnam murdering millions of civilians. And you started war with Iraq unauthorized from UN. Which is an obvious sign that you don't give a f**k about other nations. We have very valid reasons to do so. I use to say that I don't hate americans, I hate your government. But since so incredibly many of you americans agree with your government it leaves out the option to like you.
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 12:27:00 AM
The Internet did NOT come about merely as a result of defence spending - despite a common belief that it did so. Again, I am sorry, but I do not have the reference work to hand for that - I did a paper on that subject not long ago, and a Harvard publications book was involved that discussed it in detail. If I find it, I will refer.
The UK spends 5-6% tax on defence, Germany/France 4-5%, with a similiar pattern across Europe. Are they "under-defended" as part of NATO - No! They just don't support a militaristic-economic structure that requires multi-billion dollar investment to prop up it's fucked economy (trillion dollar deficit, anyone?).
The fallacy that scientific research would not take place, and therefore not provide useful products is often used by neo-conservative market economists, but almost all "invention" and scientific research would be carried out anyway - Most scientists and researchers are goal orientated and not money/prestige orientated. School funding in the US has declined relatively, and is more and more propped up by Private companies (yr Chemistry class - sponsored by Unichem...) and you have a declining standard of literacy. DYOR on that.
To say that that is due to immigration is ignorant, racially biased, and untrue. You have strict immigration quotas, not just anyone gets in without qualifications/job prospects etc - this is not the 1930s when the boats were steaming into New York!! It may be yr "motto", but has not applied in such an easy fashion for decades - and even more so now post 9/11. It is in the heartlands of America, and the inner city poorer areas where literacy is declining.
So you are blaming immigrants for yr own countries declining literacy standards rather than yr govt and it's education policy??
| QUOTE |
| smart-ass literate england |
Such a shame some of us want to be like Americans and dumb ourselves down.| QUOTE |
| chicken shit france |
Why, because they dare to tell you to fuck off and to respect international law, and have a higher standard of education, social welfare, cultural history and standard of living without spending all their tax revenue fighting wars that weren't necessary?
| QUOTE |
| bullied spain |
Who were just brave enough to vote the American poodle out of office so that they could make their own decisions on their involvement in Iraq and other issues? Also ditto as for France re tax, welfare, education.
| QUOTE |
currently liberated Iraq |
Watch something other than CNN.
Now where is the smilie icon for "washing my hands with you", I'm done.
Post by: Heet on May 16, 2004, 03:13:00 AM
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 03:25:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| I thought Al Gore invented the internet |
No, but Al Gore surely wished he had invented electronic voting. Have a "hanging chad", anyone....?
Post by: BloodyMary on May 16, 2004, 03:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 16 2004, 04:27 AM) |
| Watch something other than CNN. Now where is the smilie icon for "washing my hands with you", I'm done. |
CNN??? Obviously you've not watched CNN in a long time. I have and I just watched a piece of it last night. It was like I was watching a station broadcast from another country. CNN clearly has an anti U.S. agenda, so I would think you would love to have Americans watching CNN. CNN clearly depises the Bush administration and is doing everything in their power to make sure Bush isn't reelected. I'm guessing they would rather have John Kerry in office, who would surely tear apart the countries national defense as much as Bill Clinton did or more. All I'm saying is surely you jest when you think that CNN is feeding pro America news.
And as far as your spending figures go and national deficit... you're way off
Post by: BloodyMary on May 16, 2004, 03:51:00 AM
| QUOTE (Arvarden @ May 16 2004, 06:42 AM) |
| I think your pic should be titled russiaville tbh... Not every country is perfect esp the US. America's foreign policy inc Britain acts in its own interested. So if people are getting slaughtered in various parts of world and that part of the world has nothing to add £$ wise then we'll just sit back and watch millions of people being tortured, raped and mutilated. You cant compare Iraq with WW2, Saddam was now where near as powerful as Hitler, thats not imo, its fact. Getting rid of Saddam was inevitable but the reasons for invading Iraq was bull poop, you know it and I know it. |
In case you didn't read my post, no where did I compare
| QUOTE |
| Iraq with WW2 |
and no where did I compare
| QUOTE |
| Saddam was now where near as powerful as Hitler |
. Although if you really wanted to know... Saddam's plan was to take over all of the middle-east and control the majority of world's oil supply, try to refute that point if you want, but it's undeniably the truth about what he wanted.
Really I just wanted to come in and point out that I didn't make those comparisons that your are ASSUMING that I made... read what I wrote... thanks...-
Title: Funny How So Many Criticize.
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 04:25:00 AM
-
Really I just wanted to come in and point out that I didn't make those comparisons that your are ASSUMING that I made... read what I wrote... thanks...
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 04:25:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| And as far as your spending figures go and national deficit... you're way off |
Provide evidence, then I'll re-read your stuff. You know that during the Reagan era the US exceeded the trillion dollar deficit mark, it was highlighted as part of the reconstruction of "American pride" via rampant consumerism.
I think, at the last figure available, 46cents in every tax dollar (ok, I generalised at 50%) goes to defence related industries, military expenditure, defence research (still making those nasty atomic weapons aren't you? Despite the UN treaty banning them, but complaining when Pakistan does it, oh wait, post Afghanistan, Pakistan are our friends...we're confused...).
If you think CNN is unbiased,
look up cognitive dissonance again. You think John Kerry is a replacement for GWB? You think it makes a difference? You think you live in a *democracy*?Bill Clinton arranged the bombing of an aspirin factory (sorry "chemical weapons factory") in the Sudan (where they are very rich...) to distract from the semen on his interns dress. It is not a two party choice. It never has been. CNN masks such facts so that you patriotic Americans think it is "unbiased" or even biased against you.
Please, read something else on Znet, the Guardian newspaper, Indymedia, whatever, and remember - I respect your right to your opinion, I would fight to preserve your right to express it, it is just in this case I don't agree with it. (At least you have stopped calling me an "asshole" or my sort of thinkers as "self righteous fucks" - I guess that's progress!)
Post by: BloodyMary on May 16, 2004, 05:06:00 AM
| QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 16 2004, 08:25 AM) |
| Provide evidence, then I'll re-read your stuff. You know that during the Reagan era the US exceeded the trillion dollar deficit mark, it was highlighted as part of the reconstruction of "American pride" via rampant consumerism. I think, at the last figure available, 46cents in every tax dollar (ok, I generalised at 50%) goes to defence related industries, military expenditure, defence research (still making those nasty atomic weapons aren't you? Despite the UN treaty banning them, but complaining when Pakistan does it, oh wait, post Afghanistan, Pakistan are our friends...we're confused...). If you think CNN is unbiased, look up cognitive dissonance again. You think John Kerry is a replacement for GWB? You think it makes a difference? You think you live in a *democracy*?Bill Clinton arranged the bombing of an aspirin factory (sorry "chemical weapons factory") in the Sudan (where they are very rich...) to distract from the semen on his interns dress. It is not a two party choice. It never has been. CNN masks such facts so that you patriotic Americans think it is "unbiased" or even biased against you. Please, read something else on Znet, the Guardian newspaper, Indymedia, whatever, and remember - I respect your right to your opinion, I would fight to preserve your right to express it, it is just in this case I don't agree with it. (At least you have stopped calling me an "asshole" or my sort of thinkers as "self righteous fucks" - I guess that's progress!) |
You are trying to twist my words to your favor... I never called you an asshole or a self righteous fuck... unless of course your are say you hate Americans... (read what I originally posted)... and in that case... your brain is far to small and your vision is far to narrow to understand anything I would/could post.. so why even bother...
Terrorist fucks that kill innocent civilians deserve death... (I'm not the one to deliver it to them)
Asshole U.S. prison guards that torture prisoners deserve to be fired from the Military and expelled permanently from the U.S.... (and perhaps more... I'll let you be the judge of that)...
and retards that constantly want to bash Americans (and yes... they are certainly retarded) deserve to be called self righteous fucks...
if any of these include anyone who reads this... HERE'S A BIG FUCK YOU to you..
Post by: nemt on May 16, 2004, 05:25:00 AM
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 05:39:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 13 2004, 11:13 AM) "The US is leading the world into an armageddon." Hey Asshole... I live in the US and I am part of the US... |
from post http://forums.xbox-s...pic=213420&st=0
If you can't remember who you insult and why, I can understand why you can't string a coherent argument together.
And I repeatedly stated that I didn't hate Americans, quite the opposite, and only current top-led American policy.
But I think you and I are never going to have a rational argument, so I wish you a good night, without prejudice or hatred.
Ha, and re the response in the UnleashX forum, it WAS a JOKE, I'm sorry that irony is not yr thing - instead you call for the moderators to deal with it, very mature. And using the word "retard" isn't considered very polite either, so really drop it, good night and good bye.-
Title: Funny How So Many Criticize.
Post by: Arvarden on May 16, 2004, 06:15:00 AM
-
"Asshole U.S. prison guards that torture prisoners deserve to be fired from the Military"
Yea lets blame the prison guards! idiot.
The guards have already stated that they we're orded to humiliate(torture?) from tho higher power.
-
Title: Funny How So Many Criticize.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
-
If you can't remember who you insult and why, I can understand why you can't string a coherent argument together.
And I repeatedly stated that I didn't hate Americans, quite the opposite, and only current top-led American policy.
But I think you and I are never going to have a rational argument, so I wish you a good night, without prejudice or hatred.
Ha, and re the response in the UnleashX forum, it WAS a JOKE, I'm sorry that irony is not yr thing - instead you call for the moderators to deal with it, very mature. And using the word "retard" isn't considered very polite either, so really drop it, good night and good bye.
Post by: Arvarden on May 16, 2004, 06:15:00 AM
Yea lets blame the prison guards! idiot.
The guards have already stated that they we're orded to humiliate(torture?) from tho higher power.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| The Internet did NOT come about merely as a result of defence spending - despite a common belief that it did so. Again, I am sorry, but I do not have the reference work to hand for that - I did a paper on that subject not long ago, and a Harvard publications book was involved that discussed it in detail. If I find it, I will refer. |
I didnt say it came about merely as a result of defense spending. But if you think the military didnt play a part in it your ARE very ignorant and full of yourself.
I should expect so anyway. You continually tell me we are illiterate, but as i tried very nicely to point out your "defence" spelling errors...they passed you by. So now i am to expect that you cannot spell, you cannot read either. Not to mention your attention to detail is very low, which is probably the base for all your arguements.
| QUOTE |
| The UK spends 5-6% tax on defence, Germany/France 4-5%, with a similiar pattern across Europe. Are they "under-defended" as part of NATO - No! They just don't support a militaristic-economic structure that requires multi-billion dollar investment to prop up it's fucked economy (trillion dollar deficit, anyone?). |
You probably spent more than that on defense when you got your ass kick by Hitler.
| QUOTE |
| The fallacy that scientific research would not take place, and therefore not provide useful products is often used by neo-conservative market economists, but almost all "invention" and scientific research would be carried out anyway - Most scientists and researchers are goal orientated and not money/prestige orientated. |
You really need to take a break.. you are so fully of yourself and your false ideas. Everyone is wrong, you are right blah blah blah. Who writes all those books you read? or is The Guardian your bible and only source of literature?
| QUOTE |
| School funding in the US has declined relatively, and is more and more propped up by Private companies (yr Chemistry class - sponsored by Unichem...) and you have a declining standard of literacy. DYOR on that. |
Do not confuse that little chemical class with real hard-core billion dollar research spread over many companies and universities. Its not a valid arguement. There are few companies that can, do, or are willing to spend very much money on real research...and of those that do, most have won contracts, defense contracts from the US GOV.
| QUOTE |
| To say that that is due to immigration is ignorant, racially biased, and untrue. You have strict immigration quotas, not just anyone gets in without qualifications/job prospects etc - this is not the 1930s when the boats were steaming into New York!! It may be yr "motto", but has not applied in such an easy fashion for decades - and even more so now post 9/11. It is in the heartlands of America, and the inner city poorer areas where literacy is declining. |
So YOU have done research to prove that literacy has NOT improved since 9/11?
| QUOTE |
| So you are blaming immigrants for yr own countries declining literacy standards rather than yr govt and it's education policy?? |
lol, no, I am not blaming the immigrants, simply stating that we have people living here from other countries that can read, speak or understand a lick of English which undoubtably affects the census you love so dearly. The other problem is not the government as you so clearly love to attack (you a terrorist?) but more to the fault are the internet and pop/rap cultures of the US. By that I dont mean racist points of view either, its target is the language, grammar spelling etc that is used by both regardless of color. Lets make it clear... from your posts you are not a true advocate of literacy. You're just a groupie that rides a bandwagon, even though im sure you want to believe you are thinking for yourself. It's the STUDENTS and PARENTS fault for any declining values in education. If a person want to learn in the US, there are many a means to get it done, not the governments fault.
| QUOTE |
| Such a shame some of us want to be like Americans and dumb ourselves down. |
hehehe
| QUOTE |
| Why, because they dare to tell you to fuck off and to respect international law, and have a higher standard of education, social welfare, cultural history and standard of living without spending all their tax revenue fighting wars that weren't necessary? |
you are now the judge of what is necessary? You have NO INTERNATIONAL POLICY WITHOUT ENFORCEMENT OF SUCH POLICY. . . . . . . . . <-period.
This wasnt something that happened in a single year, this was how long? how many inspection attempts (by the UN, not the US alone)? How many I will's quickly turned into I wont's?
Sheesh man.. you much have just awaken from a slumber party.
| QUOTE |
| Who were just brave enough to vote the American poodle out of office so that they could make their own decisions on their involvement in Iraq and other issues? Also ditto as for France re tax, welfare, education. |
Shouldnt that read.. "Tucked thier tails so they could refrain from ANY involvment in Iraq unless it was for the billions of dollars for US contracts to rebuild?" France took that approach too. At least they were smart enough to take if from the start.
| QUOTE |
| Now where is the smilie icon for "washing my hands with you", I'm done. |
hahhaha use me as a bar of soap again and im gonna kick your ass.
You did nothing more than prove that you waste your time reading 3rd rate consiracy novels, tunnel visioned Guardian and the likes.
Post by: nemt on May 16, 2004, 06:54:00 AM
| QUOTE (mamajo @ May 16 2004, 10:12 AM) |
| You really think he would have named it "Hittlerville"? |
It seems practical enough.
In any event, I'd take Hitlerville over Stalinville any day...which is what Europe is becoming now.
Post by: gronne on May 16, 2004, 08:07:00 AM
| QUOTE |
You honestly think Germany would have been at nearly the disposition it was if only British soldiers landed in France? If only british planes and british tanks tried to liberate france? I expect no credit for winning WW2, I didn't fight it, and America fought it no more than Britain did, if anyone won WW2 it was Russia. As for vietnam, I don't know what they teach YOU over there but there was a little tiny bit of protest for that one (little hint: You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows). The president has less than 50% approval rate, so Iraq isn't exactly America's great desire either. I'm not part of the vietnam generation, and neither is a very significant portion of the US, so I don't take credit for protesting that either. But, I don't expect to be condemned by it. Britain is fighting in Iraq as well, why is the outrage directed at the US and not towards the occupation by British troops? I'm as dissatisfied with my government as I am with Britain, just following orders is no excuse. So before you say it's a fact that we believe we saved Europe from Hitler, maybe you should stop and think. I didn't involve myself in the murder of any civilians. No more than the British are now. There's no doubt there's something wrong with the way Bush is doing business, but that doesn't make Europe squeaky clean. Don't label me, and I won't label you a Hypocrite (Even though you've shown a little hypocracy and I've shown no signs of being a murderer). |
As I said, I blame the american government. But I also blame everybody agreeing with it, which isn't you as I've understood it.
After the turning points(which USA did not take part in) Germany suffered losses at most fronts. It was obvious we would win the war, but USA definitely helped the allied countries defeating Hitler faster. USA did a major contribution along with the D-Day. There's a great difference in saying you liberated us instead of the truth, which is that you helped us when the war was about to be won. As you said, the one's who should have the greatest credit for winning the war was the Soviets.
| QUOTE |
but there was a little tiny bit of protest for that one |
I'm not sure I know what you mean, but I suppose you refer to the americans protesting the american government so the soldiers should come home. If that's what you refer to I don't see where you're going. It was great you protested though, a bit late though.
Britain is definitely as bad as america in this war, no doubt. One says USA since you started all of it, Britain joined you. But that is just as bad. Strangely enough people don't say the coalitions forces, but I suppose it's to make sure USA will suffer the most from all bad things they do.
| QUOTE |
So before you say it's a fact that we believe we saved Europe from Hitler, maybe you should stop and think. I didn't involve myself in the murder of any civilians. No more than the British are now. |
I refered to the author, and anyone else agreeing.
I'm sorry if people misunderstand when saying USA, I in most cases refer to the american politics. I also refer to the americans agreeing with it. I know a lot of you don't agree with Bush, you shouldn't feel pointed at.
BTW: what hypocrisy have I done?
Post by: Intensecure on May 16, 2004, 08:28:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE To say that that is due to immigration is ignorant, racially biased, and untrue. You have strict immigration quotas, not just anyone gets in without qualifications/job prospects etc - this is not the 1930s when the boats were steaming into New York!! It may be yr "motto", but has not applied in such an easy fashion for decades - and even more so now post 9/11. It is in the heartlands of America, and the inner city poorer areas where literacy is declining. "So YOU have done research to prove that literacy has NOT improved since 9/11?" |
Out of context - the point was that *immigration*, not literacy, has not been eased after 9/11.
As for your poor excuses for arguments for the rest, "defence n. (US defense) 1 defending, protection. 2 means of this. 3 (in pl.) fortifications. 4 justification, vindication. 5 defendant's case or counsel in a lawsuit. 6 defending play or players. defenceless adj. defencelessly adv. defencelessness n. [related to *defend".
BTW - is "arguements" a word?
As for reading "all those books you read", it is called an education, and is on-going.
Evidently unlike yours.
I have no further time to waste with this - I try to be civil and discuss world affairs with people on a games console forum! I'm maybe mad after all
| QUOTE |
| (you a terrorist?) |
| QUOTE |
| hahhaha use me as a bar of soap again and im gonna kick your ass. |
You are an idiot. As you Americans say, period.
But it is great sport - like shooting fish in a barrel!
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 09:20:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| defence n. (US defense) |
you call it defence, but when talking about the US Defense, please use an S.
| QUOTE |
| BTW - is "arguements" a word? |
it is if you take out the typo in it. My point was not to have a spelling contest with you. Which was why i bolded it in your replies. Knowing that you read the Guardian means you can read, but do you really understand? I see you can somewhat use a dictionary, but when you refer to the us defense, it needs to be with an S and not a C.
So i guess thats why your education is still ongoing. Ride the little yellow bus home today? Enjoyable and exciting trip wasnt it
Gooodd.. glad you had fun! | QUOTE |
| I try to be civil and discuss world affairs |
discuss? condem? debate? reject
You were the one attacking the US use of weapons for a war. Refuting reports by scientists that those depleted uranium bullets did not cause the diseases and illnesses, all so you could wage an information war and mislead anyone willing to listen.
| QUOTE |
| You are an idiot. As you Americans say, period. But it is great sport - like shooting fish in a barrel! |
Call me what you want lol, Shooting fish in a barrel is not a sport, its inhumane.
But I guess thats as close to participating in war as you would go for your country. I fear whichever it may be, when they call thier countrymen to arms. All they will have is a bunch of men that shoot fish in barrels.
Probably use a shotgun too dont you? where's the sport in that?
Post by: melon on May 16, 2004, 11:17:00 AM
I get bored of these stupid arguments.
Someone pro-war says something stupid,
anti-war comes back with facts and links,
nemt says something retarded (actually true about hilters plans about america and japan and italy were involved)
bloody mary goes mad when someone says she is wrong (now im picking on her and expect retalliation- maybe invade my house).
pro war slags off the cowards France (I think it took a lot of balls to stand up to america)
anti-war get accused of hating all americans (helium when anyone slags off america you are definelty not included in whatever is said).
its getting boring. Some of you are so blind to the truth i laugh at the posts.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 12:06:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| actually an englishman invented the internet. |
no, an englishman invented the WWW, which only could exist when piggybacked on the internet.
my point was not who invented anything, but rather that US taxpayer dollars are effectively used for products they will eventually use/own.
Internet Birth
WWW Birth
| QUOTE |
| you don't wish to have a spelling contest, yet you criticize his use of defense instead of defence? |
Right, thats why i was subtly pointing out his choice of words. One claiming to be more literate than another should show proper literacy at the start. Speaking of US Defense clearly calls for its spelling to be appropriately correct and no, i was critisizing his use of defence instead of defense.
| QUOTE |
| it's perfectly appropriate for him to use his localized english. |
just as much as i could call you light headed, or helium, or He or simply atomic #2. No, you would prefer for people to address you correctly, at least i would hope so. The internet isnt localized, and i have no idea where he is from.
| QUOTE |
Depleted uranium is mildly radioactive but the main health concern is that it is a heavy metal, potentially poisonous. The likelihood of absorbing it is increased significantly if a weapon has struck a target and exploded because the DU vaporises into a fine dust and can be inhaled. Dr Kilpatrick said a study that had followed 90 US Gulf War veterans exposed to the dust and to shrapnel from DU rounds in "friendly fire" incidents had found no DU-related medical problems. Uncertainty Some Gulf War veterans believe DU might have contributed to health problems they have suffered. And it has been blamed for a number of leukaemia cases among former Balkans peacekeepers. BBC News Online environment correspondent Alex Kirby says scientists disagree about the ability of DU to cause the horrific problems that have been reported. The World Health Organisation recommends cleaning areas with high concentrations of radioactive particles. "There is real controversy, and real uncertainty," he said. There have also been various health warnings. A 1995 report from the US Army Environmental Policy Institute, for example, said: "If DU enters the body, it has the potential to generate significant medical consequences." Alex Kirby says the Pentagon claim that criticisms of DU come only from Iraq and "other countries that are not friendly to the US" is demonstrably untrue. "To sum up, I guess the Iraqis have got much worse things than DU to worry about in the immediate future, and any risk to environment and health over the longer term remains unproven and perhaps circumstantial. "But that does not mean the risk is proven not to exist." |
Drive an electric vehicle? smoke? use or subject yourself to anything cancerous? dont say no... just ask yourself what was the point in the post. is the US spraying every household in the world with DU? no. its being used in a conflict, and isolated area.
so unlike some things in life, fix it after its over.
| QUOTE |
| The World Health Organisation recommends cleaning areas with high concentrations of radioactive particles. |
Iraq SHOULD be worried about its health and exposures.. but the concern is much more that some DU, what about the oil spills/fires of both wars? what about the chemicals not yet found? what about simple human waste and clean water?
| QUOTE |
| pro war slags off the cowards France (I think it took a lot of balls to stand up to america) |
lmao, all we did was ask. you dont have to stand up to us did we impose sanctions on your country or any other for not helping?
Yet your hands are stretched out begging to be included in the rebuilding to gain $$ for your country.. and all from the pockets of US taxpayers.
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 01:51:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| There's a difference between building a bigger bomb and more effective electronic communication and data sharing. One has a future in making the world a better place, the other blows things up. |
I agree but um.. what was the point? this is in response to?
| QUOTE |
| We are shooting DU into their country, we are not giving them the chance to buy it from us. Isolated incident? I'm sure Iraqi civilians feel better knowing the health hazards we may have subjected on them was isolated to their country. DU might not be the leading danger, but that doesn't make it insiginficant |
like I said, they have more health concerns than having some DU used in the war. You think any tanks that used it as armour will be buried under someones house? you think the oilfield fires and spills by thier own people is less significant than the DU? you think the lack of hospitals, clean and sanitary ones is less significant than the DU? and thier shortage of clean water is surely less significant.
If DU helps to protect our soldiers, helps to win the war, and it possible to be cleaned up afterwards then I personnaly dont have a problem with it. its not a nuclear bomb. Most people over there will get more radiation from X-Rays for broken bones than radiation from the DU.
| QUOTE |
| As for France begging for money from US taxpayers, I assume you mean after WW2. That was a world affair. Had your country been the one near Germany, would you like to be penalized for it? I wouldn't. |
um no, i was keeping my comments somewhat current to the topic.
http://www.cnn.com/2...sprj.iraq.list/
Post by: BloodyMary on May 16, 2004, 03:22:00 PM
| QUOTE |
Call me what you want lol, Shooting fish in a barrel is not a sport, its inhumane. |
This brought pictures in my head of a guy standing over a barrel of water, with fish swimming in it, holding a double barrel shotgun with a nearly toothless grin on his face...
Melon
| QUOTE |
Someone pro-war says something stupid, anti-war comes back with facts and links, nemt says something retarded (actually true about hilters plans about america and japan and italy were involved) bloody mary goes mad when someone says she is wrong (now im picking on her and expect retalliation- maybe invade my house). |
even though this was a slight smite on me... I'd say it was all in good fun... and even if not.. it was really funny....
Post by: Large Dopant white on May 16, 2004, 04:27:00 PM
Tax dollars to weapons and defense research is an ok deal. It's not like the funds are used to create the newest and most efficient gas chamber (as a point of edification, I'm Anti-War and agree that Bush is a fucking moron that damn well better be voted off this upcoming election).
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 06:39:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 17 2004, 12:45 AM) |
| the claim that the US tax dollars send to the military go back to civilian use |
Again, the internet that you use to question it again... and a few more examples.
Helicopters are military designs that were converted to civilian use. Even today, most airplanes, and especially large aircraft, are the result of military design. In the case of large commercial airliners, nearly all of them were originally a military design that was converted to civilian use. In some cases, the original design was rejected by the military and in others it is possible to find the same model of plane serving in military use.
Titanium was a product of a 1949 US Department of Defense program to find a high-strength, lightweight, corrosion resistant structural metal. After five years of research at the US Army Material Command Materials and Mechanics Research Center, a process was discovered that could bring powdered titanium to a structural metal. Today, titanium is used in many structural applications and has many other uses such as pigment in paints
Weather Forecasting became critically important due to military aviation activities, especially during World Wars I and II. In the early days of weather forecasting, balloons were used to collect most atmospheric data. The US Army Communications-Electronics Command (CECOM) and its predecessor organizations launched the first radio-equipped weather balloon in 1928 and developed most of the equipment now used by the National Weather Service as well as that used by the Department of Defense. The US Armys electronics laboratories developed the first radar and Doppler Radar, which is now used to locate tornadoes for weather forecasting
Radar in and of itself was developed for military purposes and now finds uses in many communication applications. It is also used for cooking, in the form of the microwave oven. During World War II, Fort Monmouth Army engineers in Africa first used microwave for communications purposes. Since that time, the equipment has become far more sophisticated and is now used by all common carriers of electronic communications. It is also used for cellular telephone communication.
Two-way radios used by policeman, firemen and civilians throughout the world were developed by the US Army Material Commands Fort Monmouth laboratories to facilitate battlefield communications. The original design was large and cumbersome and had to be carried about by backpack. As electronic technology advanced the units became more compact than the early handie-talkie.
The first uses of transistors and other solid state devices were nearly all military. The first companies to locate in Silicon Valley, California depended upon US military spending for their success. In fact, after World War II began defense industrial requirements transformed California from an agricultural state into an industrial state and the primary industry was munitions. One of the first companies to establish electronic component manufacturing facilities in the Silicon Valley was Fairchild Semiconductor. Fairchild Semiconductor obtained its name because Fairchild Camera and Instrument Corporation, the giant defense contractor and aerospace company, bankrolled the company founded by Robert Noyce when it began mass-producing semiconductors in 1957.
It is interesting to note that the US military purchased at least 70% of all semiconductors manufactured in the Silicon Valley until the 1970s. The first consumer use of any transistors was in 1954, when Texas Instruments, one of the early manufacturers of transistors, developed a pocket radio model TR-1 as a joint venture with the Regency Division of an Indianapolis, Indiana electronics manufacturer named Industrial Development Engineering Associates, or IDEA. The TR-1 was sold under the Regency brand name.
The concrete pillbox or blockhouse of World War II, was thought to be obsolete because of the development of nuclear weapons during the same war. Also known as bunkers, they advanced and influenced the use of steel reinforced concrete and the aesthetics of some civilian buildings. There were many variations of fortifications based upon their intended use.
Computers, On 5 June 1943, the US Army Ordnance Corps contracted with the University of Pennsylvanias Moore School of Electrical Engineering for research and development of an electronic numerical integrator and computer, known by its acronym, ENIAC. When developed, the ENIAC, although extremely slow by todays standards, was incredibly fast compared to the methods of that era.
Least not forget the Jeep, the Humvee either fun to drive
| QUOTE |
| You know, political discussion aside, I'd like to point out that the internet, as we know it today, was 'created' by the US Defense Dept so, so many years ago (it was called DARPAnet, if I'm correct). Geez, pick up a book about socket programming and it'll tell ya that in the introduction. Tax dollars to weapons and defense research is an ok deal. It's not like the funds are used to create the newest and most efficient gas chamber (as a point of edification, I'm Anti-War and agree that Bush is a fucking moron that damn well better be voted off this upcoming election). |
Yes, it was DARPAnet. The hyperlink protocals were developed by CERN - though , but not put to use until NCSA develped the Mosaic browser...the rest is history. Wait, all of that is history
I already gave him a quick link further up the discussion labeled Internet Birth. Guess he never felt the need to read it since he is right and I am wrong.
Post by: BlazinKhan on May 16, 2004, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 06:51:00 PM
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 07:33:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 17 2004, 04:02 AM) |
| kold, i didn't see a single munition on that list of yours. I already said there's a difference between munition research and research on technology with very viable civilian application, all you've done is support that. Kahn, not everyone (or even almost everyone) here is a blind nationalist. Every country has its share, but because the US is on trial you see ours the most. We have our share of protests as well. Stereotypes are no good. |
| QUOTE | ||
QUOTE
Defense research provided you with the internet. via research done at MIT. So to summarize in short, pay your taxes, use some to research better tech/weapons so we kick ass in our wars and still provide money to educate those not fighting the war? sounds cool to me. Billions and billions of dollars are granted to schools for various projects, yes, maybe defense related (see robot race), but the resulting tech is much like the billions we spend on NASA too, both provide better stuff for the civilian world. Navigate your boat, car or use one of those personal locators via GPS lately? |
Well the original statement was to reply to Intenscure that defense spending pays dividends to both military and civilians. You was not even in the discussion yet. I did however quote your statement in that long ass post which mentioned nothing of weapons research.
I'll quote it again for you again.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 17 2004, 12:45 AM) the claim that the US tax dollars send to the military go back to civilian use |
Maybe I was wrong in my reply?
Your previous (page 2) statement that more DU testing and research should be done, I have no problem with. I agree. Testing should be done on anything and everything that might have side affects, like people posting to this forum day in and day out.
Maybe you should read page 1 again??
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 07:48:00 PM
Maybe some other weekend when I feel burnt out we will meet again!
Post by: HeLiuM on May 16, 2004, 07:55:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| So to summarize in short, pay your taxes, use some to research better tech/weapons so we kick ass in our wars and still provide money to educate those not fighting the war? sounds cool to me. |
Emphasis on weapons. My point was that you can't simply state that defense spending has civilian use, there are different categories blanketed under the term "defense" (A term I find ironic, as I don't see any of these current events as defense, and especially think people would be much more object to DU being used on American soil if there was to be such a defense).
Post by: koldfuzion on May 16, 2004, 08:00:00 PM
read my post again, it said tech/weapons. not tech/munitions.
a truck is weapon, a satelite is a weapon, a ship, a plane, advanced electronics (electronic jamming), better navigation is a weapon (GPS) anything that gives you clear advantage over your enemy is a weapon. Not a definitive munition...but I never stated that.
Post by: Colonel32 on May 16, 2004, 08:19:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| a satelite is a weapon |
Not yet, but Bush is trying as hard as reagan did to make it so.
EDIT: actually manged to spell reagan wrong
Post by: IndieSnob on May 16, 2004, 09:43:00 PM
| QUOTE (Colonel32 @ May 16 2004, 08:49 PM) |
| will someone please explain how the United States saved the world from Hitler??!!! The US was one of the last countries in for christs sake!! Disgusting ! How about Russia Perhaps you should all thank the French for your independence while your patting backs  And whoever said that CNN is anti american, I think that is the most ignorant statement I have seen in years on this forum. Change the channel to ANY international news agency and tell me CNN is "anti american". Your clueless - keep your tv on Fox you are their consumer base ..... Its too late for you, you drank the magic kool aid - EVERYTHING that disagree's with the government is not unpatriotic or anti-american. That is exactly how Hitler gained such support Haven't any of you "patriots" ever wondered why the entire world disagree's with you. Are they all brainwashed by this "liberal media" ? Why is it that the people you "liberate" all over the world hate your country? "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - President Thomas Jefferson "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government. - Thomas Paine "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President." - President Theodore Roosevelt Were these men "anti american" too |
Here here Colonel! Blind patriotismn has been a downfall to many countries and is one of the worst things anyone can practice.
Post by: Colonel32 on May 17, 2004, 01:48:00 AM
I should also say that I don't know why everyone hammers nemt so hard.
I disagree with basically everything he says but I respect him because its not rhetoric or talking points except for this liberal media myth.
He's formed all his own opinions despite how scary they are to me
Mr Nemt knows a little more about economics than he lets on as well methinks