Post by: rms2001 on May 13, 2004, 11:14:00 PM
But after talking to people around the world on this, and looking at the question you asked Boris, I really have to step back and think about what I saw.
When I was watching the video I was in total shock to how any one could ever do that to a human being. But after seeing the video and really thinking about it for awhile some thing didnt make since at all, and the link you posted brings some of these points out.
The #1 thing that made me think is how he never fought back. Seems a little odd, he sat there quite for 4min while they read that. I'd be making the best effort to put as much hurt on them as I could. He moves very very little in the movie, all most like hes catatonic or on drugs.
#2, when the leader of the group pushed Nick over and proceded to saw his head off, Nick was more or less motionless. I know if that were me, Id put up the biggest fight I could.
#3, When the knife went to work on Nick, the video got very very blurry. That to me seems a little odd, also how the blood seems to almost appear on the floor. Also there was no visible blood spay. While the terrorist was holding Nicks head up for the cam there was no blood.
#4 The video it self was not good at all. It looks like it was shot with a camcorder from 20 years ago. I know they have better cams than that over there. They have killed enough media people to get a nicer cam.
#5 The stance of the terrorists. They looks a lot of like an US Army solder stands, not you average rag head. Looks very well fed too, whens the last time you seen an Arab over 200lbs? I cant think of any When your fighting a war like they are, your always on the move and dont have time to gain weight.
As I said, after seeing this video and thinking about it, seeing it again and really thinking about, it dose bring a lot of questions to mind of what really happened and was it really Nick Berg? Was the person beheaded all ready dead, or was it just a dummy?
And just one last note, it seems fairly easy to take Nicks head off. I dont really know, but doesnt it take a bit of force to cut thru the spinal cord? Thats a bit of bone and what not to cut thru, and the knife didnt look all that aggressive, at least not enough to me to do that kind of damage to that much mass. Kinda gos back to my dummy question.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 14, 2004, 12:28:00 AM
The Nick Berg execution was not staged. I skimmed quickly to the article that you posted the link to. And reading through the points that the second poster brings up. These are, I will grant you, interesting points, and to the uninformed, they will bring doubt about the video being real or not. And have you seen the whole 6 1/2 minute uncut video... the blood is gushing all over, and I'm sure there is no doubt in Nick Berg's father's mind that's his son. As far as the not fighting, 1st of all, his hands and arms and ankles were all bound extremely and painfully tight. And you can bet that he was also beaten and tortured before they did this to him. If you see the whole video in it's entirety, all 6 1/2 minutes, and you educate yourself about the people that killed him, you will realize that it is not fake. These people are evil beyond evil and to them, you are nothing more then a lamb for the slaughter. I know there are several people that after seeing this would want to try to convince themselves that it is fake, because of the horrific impression and feeling that is left in you... it is natural to want to dismiss it as not real...
EDIT: I thought that I should add, that I have seen the chopped down, reencoded,shitty quality (less then 60 second) video that many websites are hosting... I can see why you would get the fake impression from that...
Post by: rms2001 on May 14, 2004, 01:05:00 AM
Maybe the beheading of Nick wasnt faked, maybe it was real. I cant really say. Ive seen the video on broadcast station monitors, and on PC monitors. And to me it seems questionable. To many odd things to be a shut and closed case. You may be right, I just cant bring me to accept it was real.
Its a damn good thing Im not a high ranking offer in Iraq right now. Id march every one of them prisoners out and shoot each one. Youre a terrorist, you do not deserve to live, end of story. Sure wouldnt have a job much longer. They want a war, I say we give them one. Guess that puts me in the same category as a terrorist, but you have to fight fire with fire.
Post by: rms2001 on May 14, 2004, 01:37:00 AM
Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.
Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.
Any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake(atleast in part). A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.
Another point, look at the time stamp of the video. Notice Nick's head has been cut off at 13:47:49 (1:47) Yet at 2:44 nearly an hour later he is sitting with his head intact!
In the video, the man in the middle (wearing all black) is the one who beheads Nick, but immediately when the head is held up, suddenly it changes to the man in the white mask. Now come one people, just the last two points alone should make you think...
The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Nick would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Nick from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.
Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.
Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.
The lack of spurting blood suggests Nick was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Nick's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.
The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape. A high pitched scream from a guy isnt abnormal, but it seems odd to me, as it seems others as well.
The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick.
Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?
Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s. I happen to own two AK-47s, and members here at X-S can back me up on that. Ya, the video was not all that good, but the rifles those guys were holding were no AKs.
The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.
The US military has stated that Nick was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nic. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.
The chair that Nick was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.
Post by: melon on May 14, 2004, 03:42:00 AM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 14, 2004, 04:18:00 AM
Reexamining the video after reading through your statements brings a lot into question. It is rather odd that they continue changing between 24 and 12 hour time... especially when they do it right during the beheading... maybe you're right and the whole thing was staged by the US military... or perhaps they murder's wanted us to believe that it was staged... the video was obviously edited here and there... (who knows why)... if it's real (which I still tend to believe) it make me totally sick to my stomach.. if it's staged by the US military it makes me totally sick to my stomach...
Either way, it's a completely horendous act of man kind...
Something I noticed while rewatching it and rewatching it...
as far as your arguement about the pasty white hands... it's not fully true.. at least one of the men has dark skinned hands.. and it look like the guy doing the beheading and at least one of the other guys is wearing what looks like medical gloves or some kind of gloves... which would make total since when cutting through meat and bone...
EDIT: oh as far as the time discrepincy goes... look at it again... it looks like 2 seperate cameras are filming the beheading... and one of them is set to 24 hour time and the other is set to 12 hour time.. that would explain the time discrepincy as well... Remember these are ruthless terrorist that we are dealing with.. they want you to believe that the US government is trying to deceive you...
Post by: falser on May 14, 2004, 04:39:00 AM
Post by: Ween311 on May 14, 2004, 07:07:00 AM
Post by: melon on May 14, 2004, 08:14:00 AM
edit: just thought of something. The US has the patriot act and there is a patriot act 2 soon to be introduced. It just sounds like it could be a mel gibson sequel.
The Patriot Act 2 - The (British) Empire Strikes Back.
Post by: iwinulose on May 14, 2004, 08:19:00 AM
if u do ur just a tree hugging hippy crap (i got that from cartman on south park)
and yes there are 2 video cams if u look when the one wit 24 hour clock is on it looks slightly different then when the 12 hour one is on
as far as the scream goes, its not a fucking girl screaming r u f-ing retarded
and about him not moving much he may have been drugged and if he wasnt he knew he wasnt going to get out of there alive
it just sick what they did to him
i heard the audio tape a few days ago in the car coming home and it was so horrible that i couldnt do my homework for half an hour
so for all of u tree hugging hippy craps out there
SHUT THE FUCK UP
(how would u like it if it was ur kid or dad that was killed)
Post by: gronne on May 14, 2004, 08:35:00 AM
Not even I believe USA staged it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The Iraqies are not stupid and know these things will only piss off the americans even more. I still don't think americans did it though, I mean stage somebody who is already dead, but it removed focus a bit from US treatment of prisoners.
Post by: Arvarden on May 14, 2004, 09:44:00 AM
Also it's interesting that this happens just after the humiliating torture photos but saying that, we hit them, they hit us back twice as hard?
Post by: iwinulose on May 14, 2004, 10:12:00 AM
y i gods name (im not religious at all, just so u get the idea) would the us torture and behead a citizen that was working hard over there in iraq
i think u ppl need to get ur heads out of ur asses and shut up
hay boris have u even seen the 6 1/2 min video?
it was a hell of a lot bloodier than the 60 sec preveiw!
this topic should be trashed cause it freaking retarded
THE US GOVERNMENT DID NOT HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH THE BEHEADING!!!
end of story
Post by: BloodyMary on May 14, 2004, 10:15:00 AM
as far as the arguement about getting the head to come off so easily...
it obviously wasn't easy.. there is a skip right at 13:46:33 and it jumps right to 13:47:46, the guy with the knife was obviously having trouble cutting through the spinal cord... and who knows what they used in that more then one minute span to sever the spinal cord... This is real guys... wake up... these terrorist hate America and all Americans and will do anything within their power to convince America to leave them alone... There's no lack of blood and it wouldn't be squiting out anyway.. anyone who's ever slaughtered pigs for a living (yes I worked in a pig slaughterhouse for over 3 months and spent plenty of time on the kill floor) knows that blood doesn't just come splashing out all over...
Post by: MeNaCe911 on May 14, 2004, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 14, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
Muslim extremist torture a Russian soldier and cut off his head
Russian soldier is beheaded by Muslim extremist in Chechnya
Daniel Pearl beheading
Post by: iwinulose on May 14, 2004, 11:22:00 AM
this is just retarded
and i dont have blind faith (it may sound that way), its just the notion that our gov't or military did this just to get attention away from the prisoner incident is appauling :sickened:
that is y i think it should be trashed
Post by: rms2001 on May 14, 2004, 12:12:00 PM
Post by: moistness on May 14, 2004, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: gronne on May 14, 2004, 12:59:00 PM
Blood spills can be pretty intense for a few seconds, mostly it settles pretty fast but it gets very messy. I've growed up on a farm so I'd say I've got some knowledge about it.
Post by: Ween311 on May 14, 2004, 01:14:00 PM
Do you also think that the US government staged or faked all the footage of the civilian contractors being set on fire and hung from a bridge? I don't think that the terrorists are really doing this for retribution for the mistreatment of their prisoners, but because they are terrorists and this is how they incite their own kind. Through terror. The Iraqis have done this sort of thing to their own people for years. Saddam had his 2 sons castrate and kill numerous of his own aides that he thought had turned against him. I would not put this act past the terrorists.
The other reason that I don't believe that it was faked by the US government is that if we had done it, I don't think there would have been as many mistakes and discrepancies as described in this thread.
Just my 2 cents. **Folds tinfoil to put in hat so government can't read thoughts**
Post by: BloodyMary on May 14, 2004, 01:29:00 PM
If you don't like the USA, that's fine... but don't hate a person because they are from the USA, because that's retarded...
I don't hate anyone because of where they come from... hell I don't even hate everyone just because their in al Queda, many of them are just very misled youth...
Now you can all flame me... umm... if you are really a hate monger...
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 14, 2004, 02:02:00 PM
Post by: msn25 on May 14, 2004, 04:00:00 PM
Post by: moistness on May 14, 2004, 04:33:00 PM
| QUOTE (msn25 @ May 15 2004, 02:00 AM) |
| does anyone have a clip of this... yeah im f*** up for asking... but... yeah |
Its not hard to find, look for yourself.
Post by: Mikerocosms on May 14, 2004, 05:07:00 PM
The camera's clock changing could be due to either 2 different cameras, the user messing with the buttons (amature at best), and most likely editing for emphasis.
You asked about the man with the black mask switching with the white mask: That could be explained with editing as well. If you notice after the man with the knife is done he lets the head drop. Then the clip ends and immediately comes back with the guy in the white mask picking the head up. Again this clip ends and were shown Nicks head on top of his body, chest or back.
The Daniel Pearl video was really no better. I had lots of cuts and merges of different clips of videos too. As well as pics inserted into the video of his head cut off and other things. The thing is, on the Daniel Pearl video they really never show the entire beheading just the last part of it with only a little skin being ripped off. There was no major blood loss like in the movies either.
Mike!
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 14, 2004, 06:39:00 PM
the american gov't...
i sincerely doubt that they had a hand in this. i would suspect them more if every time i turned on the news i saw this but the fact is i see the prison scandle. the gov't could do so much more to promote the war. they gain nothing from this. pro wars get enraged and want everyone dead in iraq. anti's are pissed that another person dies. this only seems to make this prisoner bull shit more justafied. but still pros more pro antis more anti.
American Media: Get over this prisoner crap punish the stupid soldiers that took pictures. and let me make bumper stickers and post cards out of the pictures so i can sell them and make a fortune.
the prisoners. they are in prison for a reason. there rights should be revoked until this war is over. (red necks point of view) stick them in a cell. leave themn alone.
.
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 14, 2004, 07:49:00 PM
as for us working on our curroption. we can work on it but it goes no where. to make it go away. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
Post by: nfs924 on May 14, 2004, 07:55:00 PM
Post by: Intensecure on May 14, 2004, 10:32:00 PM
Not faked - timing suspicious in view of recent exposure of treatment of Iraqi POWs, but even the most desperate regime (and I mean the US) are unlikely to have "faked" this.
They have done horrendous things - death squads in Nicaragua, drugs for arms via Oliver North, Panama, Haiti, Indonesia, allowing Terry Waite to be taken hostage - well, anyone who has read Chomsky and ever visited http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm will know what else. Everyone can read and form their own conclusions. For the record, I think Alex Jones is rather paranoid, a good communicator but not a good judge of facts.
But to fake this execution? No, didn't happen. Barbarism happened for public effect. Not for the first, or indeed last, time.
RIP Nick Berg.
Post by: rms2001 on May 15, 2004, 01:07:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| WHy didnt he fight? did u ever think of what was on the other side of the camera? |
Being shot sounds like alot better way to go than getting my head sawed off.
After doing some more thinking, and pondering a few of my last questions, one really stood out. Was Nick all ready dead when they took his head off?
While talking to a friend about this very thing, he brought up another question I asked about how easy it was for them to cut thru the spinal cord. As he pointed out to me when you shoot a dear, one thing you do along the way is behead the deer. It dose take alot of force and a very sharp knife to do this as you have to cut thru the spinal cord.
Also, I remembered some thing from good old high school (LOL never thought Id say that). Mary Queen of Scot's was beheaded in 1587, and the one thing I remember about that account is how it took the heads man three whacks with a very sharp and heavy axe to take her head off. Now if it took this dude three attempts to take a head off with a swinging axe, no way could a guy do it with a knife.
This is also why the French used the guillotine in the way they did. The blade was very large and very heavy. And when dropped gravity compacted the weight and force of the blade when it cut the poor suckers head off.
So any way, it really makes since (at least to me) that Nick was already dead and his head was mostly severed when they did the dirty deed for the cam. Just my opinion, on this whole thing.
Post by: Intensecure on May 15, 2004, 02:28:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Remeber back when 9/11 happened they showed video of a women getting shot to death simply cause she comited adultry . This is the kinda people u are dealing with. " muslim extremeist" |
Please just balance that, often justified, view with the fact that the US govt is predominantly run by right wing christian extremists.
And there are people in the US who would rather shoot abortion doctors than advocate sensible birth control.
There is extremism everywhere, regrettably.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 15, 2004, 02:45:00 AM
| QUOTE (rms2001 @ May 15 2004, 05:07 AM) |
| After doing some more thinking, and pondering a few of my last questions, one really stood out. Was Nick all ready dead when they took his head off? While talking to a friend about this very thing, he brought up another question I asked about how easy it was for them to cut thru the spinal cord. As he pointed out to me when you shoot a dear, one thing you do along the way is behead the deer. It dose take alot of force and a very sharp knife to do this as you have to cut thru the spinal cord. Also, I remembered some thing from good old high school (LOL never thought Id say that). Mary Queen of Scot's was beheaded in 1587, and the one thing I remember about that account is how it took the heads man three whacks with a very sharp and heavy axe to take her head off. Now if it took this dude three attempts to take a head off with a swinging axe, no way could a guy do it with a knife. This is also why the French used the guillotine in the way they did. The blade was very large and very heavy. And when dropped gravity compacted the weight and force of the blade when it cut the poor suckers head off. So any way, it really makes since (at least to me) that Nick was already dead and his head was mostly severed when they did the dirty deed for the cam. Just my opinion, on this whole thing. |
rms2001,
did you not read what I wrote back here
| QUOTE |
as far as the arguement about getting the head to come off so easily... it obviously wasn't easy.. there is a skip right at 13:46:33 and it jumps right to 13:47:46, the guy with the knife was obviously having trouble cutting through the spinal cord... and who knows what they used in that more then one minute span to sever the spinal cord... |
This time break makes your arguement about the ease of cutting off the head, very weak. There's over a one minute time span that is missing and they could have used an axe and whack 3 to 20 times in a 1 minute span to finish the head cutting off...
Post by: gronne on May 15, 2004, 02:54:00 AM
| QUOTE |
They may not say this to u in person. If u read there "bible" it even says its ok to kill christians |
Please prove that from the Quran (if you didn't even know it's called that you've got to prove your statement, because I find it very doubtful).
| QUOTE |
after seeing the video, I cryied, and said fuc* those fuc*ing iraqi assholes!!! |
You see, by all means this was, no matter USA didn't do it, very good for the american government.
| QUOTE |
the prisoners. they are in prison for a reason. there rights should be revoked until this war is over. (red necks point of view) stick them in a cell. leave themn alone. |
USA released prisoners a few days ago(I even think it was 90% of the prisoners) because they never really had anything to charge them on.
We should not forget that Bush faked some paper pre-war to make it look like a specific country in Africa(can't remember now, too long ago) provided Iraq with WMD's, but it turned out to be faked by Bush. So USA had every possible reason to do this, don't be naive. I still don't know what to think though.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 15, 2004, 03:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (gronne @ May 15 2004, 06:54 AM) |
| We should not forget that Bush faked some paper pre-war to make it look like a specific country in Africa(can't remember now, too long ago) provided Iraq with WMD's, but it turned out to be faked by Bush. So USA had every possible reason to do this, don't be naive. I still don't know what to think though. |
This was never proven to be faked by Bush... so shut up about it until you can prove that it was 'faked by Bush'. Sure it may have been, but it was never proved, if it had been proved to be faked by Bush, they'd be having and impeachment trial now... get your facts strait before you go yacking off at the mouth... I'm certainly not saying that noone 'faked' the documents, but it was never proven to be 'faked by Bush'.
Post by: clogicgmather on May 15, 2004, 03:03:00 AM
When will god come back down and re-iterate 'THOU SHALL NOT KILL'
peace
Post by: rms2001 on May 15, 2004, 03:03:00 AM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 15 2004, 04:45 AM) |
| rms2001, did you not read what I wrote back here This time break makes your arguement about the ease of cutting off the head, very weak. There's over a one minute time span that is missing and they could have used an axe and whack 3 to 20 times in a 1 minute span to finish the head cutting off... |
Ahh, I dont know how I missed your post, but I some how did...
Post by: BloodyMary on May 15, 2004, 03:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (clogicgmather @ May 15 2004, 07:03 AM) |
| This is slightly off topic but is in reply to nagmine last comment. I dont think the problem is so much what the religion teaches, as all religious texts were written such a long time ago meanings and interpretations change over many years, coupled with the fact that many texts have crossed language barriers I think its difficult to say one way or the other with alot of texts. Essentially its open to interpretation. From my knowledge of islam there isnt much in the way of regulation as to who may start preaching and interpreting texts in anyway they see fit, in contrast to something like catholicism which interpretation comes direct from the pope and is passed down to priests who inturn pass that information onto followers. I personally dont agree with the idea that someone cannot interpret things themselves but i think this shows an interesting contrast of how religion can be used as a motive for anything. When any person can stand up to the uneducated masses (i think this is the case for the most of the world, not just the middle east) and preach their own adgenda masqueraded as religion it is plain wrong. When will god come back down and re-iterate 'THOU SHALL NOT KILL' peace |
Though your post may be slightly off topic, it's one of the best that I've seen in here so far... I agree with perhaps even all of it... but for sure.. the last line
'THOU SHALL NOT KILL'
Respect!
Post by: HeLiuM on May 15, 2004, 09:07:00 AM
I'm beginning to think people never will. Why their lives are worth more simply because they are American or British, who knows. Fear leads them to support an unjust war, the sacrifice of others so they can go to sleep at night. Defense is one thing, but pre-emptive invasion, ignoring the wishes of the world and going against all these countries are supposed to stand for? How can you call this freedom?
Post by: nagmine on May 15, 2004, 12:06:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| And please don't label all muslims as extremists |
i was not talking about muslims .... i was talking a MUSLIM EXTREMISTS
I wasnt labeling people im talking about the group of extremeist not just muslims.
Heres a qoute from the Quran
| QUOTE |
| Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." |
Post by: Arvarden on May 15, 2004, 02:20:00 PM
Post by: Colonel32 on May 15, 2004, 02:44:00 PM
| QUOTE (Arvarden @ May 15 2004, 11:20 PM) |
| |
IS there some relevance to that or just a statement that the thread has gotten off topic
Post by: Arvarden on May 15, 2004, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: Colonel32 on May 15, 2004, 02:59:00 PM
| QUOTE (Arvarden @ May 15 2004, 11:49 PM) |
| Sorry I thought this thread was about the video not random dick flexing |
LOL
That made me crack up
Post by: XB0X_Mod on May 15, 2004, 03:22:00 PM
I dont think it was staged mind...
Post by: chilin_dude on May 16, 2004, 03:31:00 AM
Post by: CHRONOSTORM on May 16, 2004, 03:02:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Defense is one thing, but pre-emptive invasion, ignoring the wishes of the world and going against all these countries are supposed to stand for? |
i think the bush administration panicked and most republicans dont want to be viewed as weak. so 9/11 was the preimptive strike in there eyes. they had to retal at the best target. (if there is such a thing) if 9/11 didnt happen i dont think we would be in iraq rite now. meaning we might have a better economy and so many would be alive right now.
| QUOTE |
| i was not talking about muslims .... i was talking a MUSLIM EXTREMISTS |
lmfao. might want to add that in ur first post.
| QUOTE |
| just another thing. People tend to forget that arabs arevery religious . If u know much about them they pretty much believe that a nin muslim dosnt have the right to live. They may not say this to u in person. If u read there "bible" it even says its ok to kill christians . They will say only in self defense but about if u look a bunch of times it says just for the hell of it. I dont hate muslims but they are a very confused people indeed. |
| QUOTE |
| USA released prisoners a few days ago(I even think it was 90% of the prisoners) because they never really had anything to charge them on. |
GHEY!. why? they held kevin miitnick and said he cant use a phone to call a lawyer and they cant hold pow's while the war is going on? they suck at this.
Post by: self on May 17, 2004, 12:50:00 PM
Nick Berg's Killing: 50 Fishy Circumstances, Contradictory Claims, and Videotape Anomalies
Since I haven't seen the video, I have no opinion on this. Thought I'd share it anyway.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 17, 2004, 06:20:00 PM
| QUOTE (self @ May 17 2004, 04:50 PM) |
| I haven't seen the video, and I wont, especially not after RX3s description, but I've just found avery interesting link, via boingboing.net. They describe it better than me: "It's a very well-researched, non-hysterical collection of 50 seeming contradictions in the Berg decapitation video." Nick Berg's Killing: 50 Fishy Circumstances, Contradictory Claims, and Videotape Anomalies Since I haven't seen the video, I have no opinion on this. Thought I'd share it anyway. |
Thanks, I tried your link multiple times from 10 - 11 pm EST tonight and it kept giving cannot find server... so just wanted to say, thanks for nothing...
It did sound interesting.. but no go...
Post by: RX3 on May 17, 2004, 07:01:00 PM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 18, 2004, 01:19:00 AM
| QUOTE (RX3 @ May 17 2004, 11:01 PM) |
| It's been working for me all day. |
Yeah.. it's working now... it must have been overloaded last night, or off line for a while...
Post by: rms2001 on May 18, 2004, 02:17:00 AM
Post by: Banj on May 19, 2004, 02:29:00 AM
How can execusions during wartime be more shocking than millions of deaths during peacetime ignorance?
How can people bitch about internet peodophiles when Britany Spears is allowed to cavort like a slut in a school uniform?
How can my 'democratic' country (England) be dragged into a war that 78% of the population opposed?
Do you not see the hypocracy? We allow these things to be carried out in OUR names.
How can said war be proved 'illegal' and the poeple who lied remain in power?
In my honest opinion the best thing that could happen is a cataclysmic event to wipe the fucking selfish, hating, wanker attitude off the face of this planet. We are all responsible for the death of Nick Berg, stop trying to alocate blame, it's fucking ignorant.
Post by: mirx999 on May 19, 2004, 12:25:00 PM
Post by: melon on May 19, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 12:51:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| We are all responsible for the death of Nick Berg |
Bull shitIts not my fault our countries went to war.
Its not my fault Nick Berg went to Iraq.
Its not my fault he didn't come home.
Its not my fault Nick Berg lost his head.
I had no say if countries went to war, I didn't tell Nick Berg he could go to Iraq or not, I didn't tell him to stay in Iraq, and I sure didn't cut his head off.
Post by: Banj on May 19, 2004, 01:15:00 PM
"If a man spends his life sitting down, there comes a time he cannot stand up." - Ghandi
Post by: rms2001 on May 19, 2004, 09:18:00 PM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 19 2004, 03:15 PM) |
| RMS2001, you live in a supposed democracy. Take responsibility for your sitting on the fence. These acts that are conducted by your country and your government are done on YOUR behalf. It takes one voice to start a riot. "If a man spends his life sitting down, there comes a time he cannot stand up." - Ghandi |
"Supposed democracy" is the key words there...
I'm not sitting on any fence, I'm on one side. I take no part in what my Government dose. I do not support any thing my Government dose. I may agree or disagree, but I still take no part in any of it. I don't even vote.
The less involvement I have with my countrys government the better off I am. I may be upset about what my Government has done in Iraq, I may voice my opinion on a subject, but I try to stay out of it as much as I can. I have no reason to get involved with their BS.
So to say we are all responsible for the death of Nick Berg is total BS.
Post by: Banj on May 19, 2004, 11:32:00 PM
If you don't vote then shut the fuck up, it means even YOU don't value YOUR opinion.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 20, 2004, 12:33:00 AM
Post by: Banj on May 20, 2004, 12:41:00 AM
Post by: chilin_dude on May 20, 2004, 12:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 19 2004, 11:29 AM) |
| How can my 'democratic' country (England) be dragged into a war that 78% of the population opposed? |
Bullshit, these are not true numbers, many people wanted us to go to war... it was a neccesary evil!
Post by: Banj on May 20, 2004, 01:18:00 AM
Sorry, 69%, still a majority.
Post by: moistness on May 20, 2004, 01:33:00 AM
| QUOTE (BloodyMary @ May 20 2004, 10:33 AM) |
| I Killed Nick Berg well... that's according to:  Banj anyway... |
You bastard!
Post by: BloodyMary on May 21, 2004, 04:07:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Four Arrested in Iraq for Berg Killing BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi police have arrested four people in the killing of American Nicholas Berg, an Iraqi security official said Friday. The suspects were former members of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Fedayeen paramilitary organization, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. They were arrested a week ago. |
NEWS SOURCE
Interesting, maybe I'll be proven wrong and it will turn out that it was indead Iraqis that killed Nick Berg.
Post by: shanafan on May 22, 2004, 10:56:00 PM
http://www.atsnn.com/story/51616.html
Dubbed in? I did see the beheading video, then turned it off. I do not want to see the video again to check.
EDIT: Eh, it could be American, but it's just too faint to really tell. Could be any language
Post by: shanafan on May 22, 2004, 11:01:00 PM
Berg never grew his hair out when he was younger or something?
Post by: Arvarden on May 25, 2004, 03:09:00 PM
Hey!
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 25, 2004, 05:25:00 PM
Any closing to this would be nice, I would love to know the explanations for the flaws.
Post by: ViNCe_V on May 25, 2004, 07:39:00 PM
Post by: alf on May 25, 2004, 09:02:00 PM
This Nick Berg thing didn't seem right to me when I first heard it. The conspiracy talk makes sense. Could you imagine what would happen to the world if this execution was staged?
Ya know it's funny that I've gotten more conspiracy news from xbox-scene than anywhere else. That whole www.johntitor.com thing got the gears in my head going a few months back. The concept is really cool and I recommend people check the site out. You could spend hours reading all the stuff on there. I don't buy all of it but I'm a dork who likes to think "What if?...."
Post by: moistness on May 26, 2004, 12:03:00 AM
Post by: Banj on May 26, 2004, 02:06:00 AM
Post by: moistness on May 26, 2004, 02:19:00 AM
| QUOTE (Arvarden @ May 26 2004, 12:16 PM) |
| There is more american dialect on the tape but I'm not gonna put words in your head. /shocked  |
Yep heard them too! I'm not pointing fingers either way, but that whole video smells fishy!
Post by: Banj on May 26, 2004, 03:10:00 AM
Post by: gronne on May 26, 2004, 03:23:00 AM
Post by: Banj on May 26, 2004, 03:50:00 AM
Secondly, thinking about the connotations of the video is only detracting from the tragedy it portrays. If it is proven to be a USA production or the work of identifiable terrorists, it will only lead to retribution and more deaths. I'm not saying the public doesn't deserve to know the truth about the video but judging by some of the posts I read, some of the public will not handle such knowledge in a responsible way.
Post by: moistness on May 26, 2004, 05:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 26 2004, 01:50 PM) |
| Firstly, the Iraqis have never claimed or been linked with this video. |
Furthermore, many iraqis who have been asked about their thoughts on this say "These people are NOT iraqi", although its not clear whether they are referring to the accents, or are merely suggesting that their people would not do such a thing!
Post by: melon on May 26, 2004, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Maximumbeing on May 26, 2004, 10:29:00 AM
We may never know :-/.
Post by: BloodyMary on May 26, 2004, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: Banj on May 27, 2004, 02:44:00 AM
Post by: BloodyMary on May 27, 2004, 06:03:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 27 2004, 06:44 AM) |
| I don't think anyone in here 'really' hates Americans, it's just the obvious vent for the worlds frustrations. On the other hand though, people who are 'arse out' with Bush can really only blame Americans as it was thier votes (or lack of) that put the clown where he is. Actually, I've just convinced myself, FUCK YOU AMERICA. |
Nice attitude... way to make yourself look like a total ass...
Post by: Banj on May 27, 2004, 06:42:00 AM
Post by: Intensecure on May 27, 2004, 07:09:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Still YOU PEOPLE, don't hate Americans or America for these things. Most of the people that I meet and speak with everyday are great people and we love having the freedoms that we have in this country. |
Most of us DON"T.
Repeat, we don't! My family has lived in the US for 20 years. I have never been shown the sort of hospitality by almost any other group of people that I have been shown by American families when I visit.
And I will emphasise this time and time again, I don't hate Americans.
I disagree with many of your govts policies, and I think yr govt has lied to you and needs to be reigned in by a greater democratic principle.
(I suppose as a European/Brit even tho' ex-pat living in Asia, I count as YOU PEOPLE
by yr description! 
Post by: bluedeath on May 27, 2004, 08:00:00 AM
| QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 27 2004, 04:09 PM) |
| Most of us DON"T. Repeat, we don't! My family has lived in the US for 20 years. I have never been shown the sort of hospitality by almost any other group of people that I have been shown by American families when I visit. And I will emphasise this time and time again, I don't hate Americans. I disagree with many of your govts policies, and I think yr govt has lied to you and needs to be reigned in by a greater democratic principle. (I suppose as a European/Brit even tho' ex-pat living in Asia, I count as YOU PEOPLE by yr description! |
Let me get this straight. You are from the UK but live in Asia while your parents live in the U.S. Shit that sounds like an al-Qeada profile. Does anyone in your bloodline actually live in one of the European countries that you hold so dear?
Post by: BloodyMary on May 27, 2004, 09:22:00 AM
| QUOTE (Banj @ May 27 2004, 10:42 AM) |
| Nice intellect.....way to completely miss the sarcasm. Nice signature.......way to take my post out of context. You are a wanker. |
I saw what you are now trying to claim as sarcasm... (yes you tried hard to make it look like sarcasm), but I've read enough of your post to know that you were just stating how you trulely feel there.
::SIG REMOVE::
>>IGNORE ALL FUTURE POSTS FROM = Banj (the living abortion)<<
Post by: melon on May 27, 2004, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Arvarden on June 01, 2004, 03:56:00 AM
The case is closed, it was Iraqi/alien terrorist's ffs.
Post by: AnThRaX on June 01, 2004, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: moistness on June 01, 2004, 12:27:00 PM
| QUOTE (HeLiuM @ Jun 1 2004, 08:09 PM) |
| The case was closed. right. The case was closed. Saddam had WMD The case was closed. There were terrorists at that wedding no support, no justification, just because I said so. |
Post by: AnThRaX on June 01, 2004, 12:59:00 PM