Post by: Raver758 on August 23, 2003, 04:32:00 PM
Yeah I know some of you people on xbn are going to Flame at me but Just thought I'll bring this discussion up.
Thanks
Post by: brahm2 on August 23, 2003, 04:47:00 PM
I think about death a fair bit but i always think about how i will die and what that will be like as opposed to the afterlife.
I think I am grossly desensitized when it comes to religion, the afterlife, politics...working in a bookstore, I see all the crank-pot theories and books on the topics. For example, the author Sylvia Brown(e?) has written numerous books on the topic...but they are all marketed to desperated middle aged women (you can so tell from the cover). Look here and see what i mean. The point I think I am trying to make is that anything in the media that pretains to the afterlife is bullshit. IF we have souls and IF they continue living when we die is beyond me.
Then again, it would be great if we moved on to a better place, but that gets us on the topic of heaven and hell. Sin and such. I would rather simply cease to exist than spend the rest of the afterlife in a place like hell. but I would also rather live in a better place than cease to exist. hmm...
damn dude this is deep...gotta go make some Deep 'N Delicious pizza and clear my mind...mmm delicious!
Post by: Mechazilla on August 23, 2003, 05:13:00 PM
Post by: brahm2 on August 23, 2003, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: dre145 on August 23, 2003, 05:20:00 PM
This is something that we probably wont know since we cant die and live to tell about it.
Now people always think of the good and for the better. no one here admits they want to live life at the worst possiable rate right? people always say tomorrow will be better. People have made hope for them self's all throught the existence of man kind. religion and everything else is just a thing to give people hope and keep peace in the world. As we all think of the out come of our actions. Tell me when you havnt through that "God" was watching you and you shouldnt do something because *when* I die I'll go to hell.
all of this is just hope. im not saying hope is bad and that religion is bad. (Look its been around from "God" knows when) and its still around untill today keeping some sort of peace because its in everyones mind.
this might be a little hard to understand and read
but please dont be offended by this just prove me wrong and post your point of view I didnt post this to get flamed.
Post by: Mast3r Ch13f on August 23, 2003, 05:30:00 PM
What I mean by this is that all what we are, is because of our brain. It makes us think, feel, want, (basically your entire personality)etc..... When we die, our brain dies which is what makes us who we are.
See where I'm getting at?
Concepts such as "afterlife" was created by people who feared not existing. Afterlife makes death easier to accept.
Sad but true.
Post by: ivans_dc on August 23, 2003, 05:44:00 PM
Post by: Large Dopant white on August 23, 2003, 06:09:00 PM
In my opinion, human belief shapes everything. If you're Christian and you believe you've lived a good life (and your God agrees with you), you go to Heaven. Likewise, if you've believed yourself to be an irredeemable sinner, you'll suffer in Hell, regardless of how your God thinks of you. It's easy to think of yourself as a good person, so your God has to confirm this before you're rewarded. However, it isn't easy to honestly believe you deserve to suffer after you die, so your God won't oppose this (except in some very specific situations).
The same applies to every religion. If you're Shinto and believe to have followed the ways of your spirit pantheon (be it a nature spirit, an ancestor spirit, or "demon"), then you join said pantheon in whatever realm it is a part of... except, of course, you wish to be rewarded for a life of sin, whereas you'll get only suffering. (Confusing? Blame it on LSD!
)Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'll rot in the ground when I die. In the end, as long as the Cycle is preserved and I get my due reward/punishment, I have nothing to complain about, even if it's banishment to a sort of Oblivion.
Post by: Tengo_Down! on August 23, 2003, 06:15:00 PM
Post by: novaisgod on August 23, 2003, 06:40:00 PM
comeing back in no shape or form
Post by: Syrus on August 23, 2003, 06:41:00 PM
Recently my uncle passed away at the age of 47 (2months now). He passed from a massive stroke. Unfortunatley it damaged his brain to the point where he could not breathe on his own. It was very unfortunate.
A month before this happened, we celebrated the First Communion of his son. My mom and my uncle were talking. He asked her if she ever has dreams. She answered yes, and he asked what kind of dreams. Later he went on to tell her that lately he has been having dreams with many deceased family members. He told her about my grandfather, and grandmother. Also about my grandfather's brother. In life, they were all close. But it was odd that he was having these dreams, and didn't know why he was having them.
So as I said, a month later he had died.
So the point of this story? Enjoy life. You never know when you will die.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on August 23, 2003, 07:45:00 PM
Post by: Odb718 on August 23, 2003, 08:40:00 PM
Well I was thinking about those statements while watching the discovery chanel.
I bring up the TV show because as I was watching some scientist proved the big bang theory. What they mentioned that got me thinking was they proved that there was more then one big bang. There were seven in under a second. As the Sixth implosion happened it created so much energy that a final explosion occured. That's just a little coincidence for me. But when they stated that only light escaped from the first bang I made sure I watched 'till the end. I forget the name of the program. But it was biased towards the side of religion. Which makes me still skeptical about the authentisity of the info. But the gave a figure that over 90% of scientist believe in a higher being. I mean who's going to beleive info from the chanell that runs alien specials all the time.
I belive my body will be put into the ground, my memories will live on in people I shared them with and if my spirit's strong enough I'll get to kick some demon ass at judgement day.
Post by: HSDEMONZ on August 23, 2003, 08:46:00 PM
HANKTOONS: Judgement Day
Post by: Senates684 on August 23, 2003, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on August 23, 2003, 09:03:00 PM
Post by: brahm2 on August 23, 2003, 09:38:00 PM
| QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Aug 23 2003, 10:46 PM) |
| That just gave me a great idea... HANKTOONS: Judgement Day |
In all honesty I would want to see the return of HANKTOONS
Of course, you would have to add some new characters...*points to self*
michael bolton, woo woo!!
Post by: Slipknot6d9 on August 23, 2003, 11:39:00 PM
Post by: Slipknot6d9 on August 23, 2003, 11:44:00 PM
| QUOTE (Raver758 @ Aug 24 2003, 06:03 AM) |
| Its sad but true I find it so depressing you know. We only get this 1 chance to live 100 years from now who are we? what are we? dinosaurs to the people. It isn't fair you know you have to leave this world and who knows where to. Either gone for life or.... I find it very depressing I personally have a long time to live but why should it end why should we all leave this wonderful place and just stay in the ground after 1, 2 years we will be forgotten like we never existed. We will never get the fullest no one will. Very sad but true. If you were to ask me I dont let religion make me believe anything. I mean don't get me wrong I respect a lot of Religions but no one will truly know till the end. Think of it your in the ground ur dead u see yourself dead your not thinking anything cause ur gone its just depressing. If you were to see your own body dead wouldn't you cry. its like losing someone you knew all your life Yourself. All the people all the 80 90 years of happiness gone. I'm sorry I'm not trying to bring anyone down imp just feeling so bad right now about this issue even if its so far away from now I just don't know.... |
..............this may sound psycho, but i would want to die with people remembering me. I mean, i doubt anybody is gonna forget about Saddam for a while right? So I would want to do something big (good or bad [bad would be easier]). ----If i knew i wuz gonna die in like a week, i would go around killin people and robbing places, that way i would have a fucking mark in this fucked up world....
Post by: gcskate27 on August 24, 2003, 09:56:00 AM
| QUOTE (cainedna @ Aug 24 2003, 06:16 PM) |
| You can't talk about a subject like this without stepping on toes, so don't worry if someone gets upset, it's kinda unavoidable. I've just always thought that even though we have unique qualities as humans, that doesn't mean when our systems break down that anything has to "happen." If your dog dies, according to judeo-christian beliefs, that's the end of it, period, since they have no souls. I've always thought this was enough for me to stop believing in any of it. By the same note, do plants, as a form of life, have souls, even in reincarnation systems? What about mitochondria? Where is that line drawn between life, and elements, and souls? If my hard drive dies, do I get to see it in heaven?  |
plants def have reicarnation system... when they die, they become fertilizer
i was stoned one time and watching that chris rock movie where he comes back as the white guy... it got me to thinking about heaven and all that... it seem christian humans believe they will go to heaven because we are so damn arrogant... we are too important to just cease to exist... hence we are the only ones with souls even though the only "proof" of souls is the range of emotion that we can produce (just my idea for proof)... but other animals show emotion, yet they have no souls? do communities of apes have a heaven? i find it odd that people can live their lives by a book written so long ago... and i only say that because you have no idea how many times the text has been changed, and im way to cynical to believe it hasnt... i dont believe in heaven or hell in their traditional views as the ideas are ludicrous... a place where everything is great and you can do whatever and your always happy, for eternity? that would get boring after a while... do the people who died along time ago have the modern conviences? it seems much more likely that we get reincarnated or move to a dif plane that isnt much dif to this one... that or we cease to exist, which isnt that bad if you think about it... how could you care if you cant think?
Post by: Champ189WS on August 24, 2003, 11:04:00 AM
Post by: Raver758 on August 24, 2003, 11:48:00 AM
So you get me like isint it weird by the time we die Almost anything we knew like actors, football teams, baseball teams, Etc have died with us. Its like our version of the world you guys get me. Then for people in the future theres a new set of actors movie stars..
Post by: Champ189WS on August 24, 2003, 12:10:00 PM
| QUOTE (Raver758 @ Aug 24 2003, 03:48 PM) |
| So you know how were all like in the same range of almost age even if were like 20 or 30 years apart in age anyone we see on tv or see in the streets when we die they all die like Movie Stars , Singers after them who will be the new ones who knows what happens to a new millennium we cant change everything.. So you get me like isint it weird by the time we die Almost anything we knew like actors, football teams, baseball teams, Etc have died with us. Its like our version of the world you guys get me. Then for people in the future theres a new set of actors movie stars.. |
I understood none of wtf u just said!!
Post by: Raver758 on August 24, 2003, 12:34:00 PM
Post by: TheGreatVirus on August 24, 2003, 01:34:00 PM
Post by: Champ189WS on August 24, 2003, 01:53:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Oh and you don't really have to take my advice I don't really care what happens to any of you. |
What a nice thing to say!!
Post by: Raver758 on August 24, 2003, 02:32:00 PM
hahaha
Post by: TheGreatVirus on August 24, 2003, 06:31:00 PM
Post by: GaijinPunch on August 24, 2003, 06:54:00 PM
As for the topic at hand, growing up a christian in the bible belt, I was taught as a child, the literal side of the bible. Adam and Eve, Heaven and Hell, and all of that stuff. Now that I have something that resembles a brain, I believe that most, if not all, of the old testament was symbolic. (Also - learning another langauge I realize that at least SOMETHING is lost in the language -- it's impossible to translate anything 100%, even from something similar like Spanish to English).
The heaven and hell part I still believe in, as well as the existence of God. I've been a rotten person at times in my life, but there's been WAAAY too many occasions where I should've been done in, and I walked away scott free. Some having to do with losing limbs... some death. I dont' believe in coincidence. For me, that's proof. I don't see why God would go through so much trouble if there's nothing after life... although there's the argument that he wants everyone's short (and only) life to be enjoyable.
BIG BANG:
I've been reading a lot of astronomy and whatnot lately. That stuff just blows my mind, and further convinces me of my beliefs. I think it's great to, if only for a split second, grasp the size of the universe. Dr. Stephen Hawking has a kewl essay about the Big Bang, and how it could prove that there is at least A God. This his horribly dumbed down, but the gist of it was, if there was a big bang, and there was "nothing" before the big bang -- then how could anyone have caused the big bang. Suck on that one for a while.
When it comes down to it, it's different for everyone.
PS: Brahm - I saw some cheesy show on The Discovery channel here one night w/ some crystals and tofu chic (I actually eat tofu though) like the one you described. She was talking about how she was going to be transferred to a prosthetic body after death. That stuff just makes me laugh.
Post by: Mast3r Ch13f on August 24, 2003, 08:02:00 PM
Maybe it's just painfully obvious to me that when you die there is nothing and even though there is we will not care or have the ability too, because our BRAIN is dead. There is no soul, there is only energy. And lets pretend there is a Soul, then how is that soul going to think, when there is no BRAIN.
ALL of what we are is because of our BRAIN, without it, all our memories are GONE (similar to some brain altering diseases), along with our personality.
So I really would like all the BS about enjoying heaven or suffering in hell to stop, because all those are emotions. Where does emotions come from boys and girls? YOUR BRAIN <--- and that goes bye bye when you die!!!!
NO BRAIN = NOTHING
I can't make it anymore clearer.
Post by: Novahux on August 24, 2003, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: Hammy on August 24, 2003, 10:16:00 PM
Post by: GaijinPunch on August 24, 2003, 11:50:00 PM
| QUOTE (Mast3r Ch13f @ Aug 25 2003, 01:02 PM) |
| NO BRAIN = NOTHING I can't make it anymore clearer. |
Dude... while I have no doubt that you and a shitlload of other people believe that's true, any spiritual person (or non-spiritual person that knows how to debate) would just throw that argument out the window.
From a debatable point of view, your entitled to your opinions, but saying that b/c your (earthly) brain dies, nothing will happen to you, is a bit close-minded for this topic. I very well accept that as a possibility, but, the bible even says you'll leave your earthly body here and get a knew one in heaven. Why would that body not come w/o a brain? See where we go? A screaming match about whether the bible and it's 1000's of interpretations are correct.
Post by: S.K.Y. on August 25, 2003, 09:22:00 AM
Post by: Raver758 on August 25, 2003, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: TheGreatVirus on August 25, 2003, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: GaijinPunch on August 25, 2003, 03:53:00 PM
| QUOTE (cainedna @ Aug 26 2003, 01:52 AM) | ||
|
Well, it's glad to see people here can respect different opinions. A topic like this is almost not worth arguing unless someone is swaying one way or another. It's one the deepest seeded opinions a person can have, and any argument can live in stalemate.
The spiritual side of me says that everyone has these "non-coincidental acts" in their life, but don't see them. The reasonalist inside me says that there is a lot of coincidence.
I think on a daily basis I'm somewhere in the middle. IE - I don't really sit around and think about it too much.
On the note of Stephen Hawking. I think it was more that he was disproving the notion that science disproves the existence of God. (IE - if there was a beginning, there COULD BE something that created it). His essay wasn't some Christian crusade. It even said that the Big Bang is still theory, and of course, could be disproven at some point. Interesting read.
Well, I think here we'd just need to agree to disagree.
Post by: Raver758 on August 25, 2003, 03:58:00 PM
Post by: defiance2004 on August 25, 2003, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on August 25, 2003, 04:45:00 PM
Post by: GaijinPunch on August 25, 2003, 06:16:00 PM
| QUOTE |
But it seems that quantum effects can remove the most objectionable feature, of singularities in classical General Relativity. This is that the classical theory, does not enable one to calculate what would come out of a singularity, because all the Laws of Physics would break down there. This would mean that science could not predict how the universe would have begun. Instead, one would have to appeal to an agency outside the universe. This may be why many religious leaders, were ready to accept the Big Bang, and the singularity theorems. |
But, on the other hand...
| QUOTE |
It seems that Quantum theory, on the other hand, can predict how the universe will begin. (snip). So real time would still have a beginning. But one wouldn't have to appeal to something outside the universe, to determine how the universe began. Instead, the way the universe started out at the Big Bang would be determined by the state of the universe in imaginary time. Thus, the universe would be a completely self-contained system. |
Read it yourselves to see the rest. Might turn your brain into mush though.
Post by: Mast3r Ch13f on August 25, 2003, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on August 25, 2003, 08:01:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on August 26, 2003, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: gcskate27 on August 26, 2003, 01:49:00 PM
| QUOTE (Mast3r Ch13f @ Aug 26 2003, 04:27 AM) |
| I just remembered a quote made by Bart Simpson on The Simpsons. I think it fits this thread perfectly, also very funny. Bart: "There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something they made up to scare kids, like the Boogeyman or Michael Jackson." |
way the breathe - no breath...
Post by: GaijinPunch on August 26, 2003, 03:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (Mast3r Ch13f @ Aug 26 2003, 12:27 PM) |
| Bart: "There's no such thing as a soul. It's just something they made up to scare kids, like the Boogeyman or Michael Jackson." |
"How can someone w/ glasses that thick be so stupid?!"
I don't know if Mr. Hawking would email back. He generally dodges questions about his religious affiliation. I assume he shares such thoughts with his family though.
Post by: Raver758 on August 26, 2003, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: XB0X_Mod on August 26, 2003, 03:58:00 PM
I really dont know i probably gone so off topic hehe
Sorry to hear about your uncle syrus let him R.I.P
And to all of you, What is life...
Post by: bombzhome on August 26, 2003, 04:05:00 PM
| QUOTE (XB0X_Mod @ Aug 26 2003, 07:58 PM) |
| This really has me thinking... you know people say You goto heaven or hell... You die thats it nothing... some say its the matrix... To be honest, this brings alot of different places you could go or dont at all you just die. Well, maybe does anyone think that thre is a god and life is a test for the next level? like say that the test is to develop another body for travel in space for the next planet... I mean what about dead plants they regrow... into a new body new leaves you get me? I mean there is so man different explinations you are somthing you die thats it nothing... but seriously this is where the matrix shit comes in, what about the people still alive? what are they doing to you. they move you put you under the soil or cremate you. I Don't know really how to explain this, but the earth is just a globe planet. with the water oxygen etc for us to live on, but what about mars? what about all those millions of miles away... the galaxys, the other suns planets and shit.... I mean there has to be somthing else. What is space... I mean think about it right now if you think like is the space flat or is it round? is it a globe with shit on in another earth? in a classroom that children are playing with... and when they drop or knock it creates an earthquake? or if they get it dirty someone dies? be honest we are just things that work... does the real anwser to life exist outside earth? The point of space? is it another planet? I really dont know i probably gone so off topic hehe Sorry to hear about your uncle syrus let him R.I.P And to all of you, What is life... |
XBOX Mod... I know where your going to die... right in front of me the day you encounter me...
j/k...
Post by: XB0X_Mod on August 26, 2003, 04:07:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on August 26, 2003, 05:15:00 PM
Post by: TheGreatVirus on August 26, 2003, 08:33:00 PM
| QUOTE (Mechazilla @ Aug 26 2003, 10:42 PM) | ||
Uhm thats because you have your own forum you jackass. |
Same goes for my forums. I'm not active.
Post by: gcskate27 on August 26, 2003, 09:58:00 PM
Post by: TheGreatVirus on August 26, 2003, 11:16:00 PM
| QUOTE (gcskate27 @ Aug 27 2003, 12:58 AM) |
| ^ damn homonyms... "there" |
Thank You Sir.
Ill be sure to make a note of it.
Post by: Hammy on August 27, 2003, 03:10:00 AM
Post by: Large Dopant white on August 27, 2003, 04:00:00 AM
| QUOTE (Mast3r Ch13f @ Aug 25 2003, 05:02 AM) |
| I still don't get why some of you are going so deep into this topic. Maybe it's just painfully obvious to me that when you die there is nothing and even though there is we will not care or have the ability too, because our BRAIN is dead. There is no soul, there is only energy. And lets pretend there is a Soul, then how is that soul going to think, when there is no BRAIN. ALL of what we are is because of our BRAIN, without it, all our memories are GONE (similar to some brain altering diseases), along with our personality. So I really would like all the BS about enjoying heaven or suffering in hell to stop, because all those are emotions. Where does emotions come from boys and girls? YOUR BRAIN <--- and that goes bye bye when you die!!!! NO BRAIN = NOTHING I can't make it anymore clearer. |
Your theory makes no sense on a scientific or spiritual level. For instance, even you admit that we're composed of energy, as quoted:
| QUOTE |
| There is no soul, there is only energy. |
Science has proven that energy cannot dissipate or be destroyed... it simply changes and flows into something else. Now, by your theory, an organ in the human body somehow changes that law? Think about it for a second. I'm not trying to diss you, but it doesn't seem like you thought about your theory too much before you typed it down.
Post by: XB0X_Mod on August 27, 2003, 06:17:00 AM
i find this after stuff freaky
Post by: Raver758 on August 27, 2003, 09:51:00 AM
someone Metioned Energy dosent Die, ITs true it dosent Die and Energy is a Form of you like you. So no one exactly knows where all these energys go. They cant stay in the body though..........
Post by: Mast3r Ch13f on August 27, 2003, 10:18:00 AM
| QUOTE (Large Dopant white @ Aug 27 2003, 08:00 AM) | ||||
Your theory makes no sense on a scientific or spiritual level. For instance, even you admit that we're composed of energy, as quoted:
Science has proven that energy cannot dissipate or be destroyed... it simply changes and flows into something else. Now, by your theory, an organ in the human body somehow changes that law? Think about it for a second. I'm not trying to diss you, but it doesn't seem like you thought about your theory too much before you typed it down. |
Ok, you mis-understood me; allow me to clearify.
Im not saying just because our brain dies, the energy is destroyed, which is why I said there is only energy. I was leaning to the fact that we would simply be energy without the ability to think, because of no brain. Our personality would be gone, with no brain. This then imples that there is no heaven or hell because without a brain we cannot enjoy or fear these places.
Of course what I said doesn't make sense on a spiritual level because whatever is implied on the spiritual level is depended more on faith rather than fact.
Post by: Raver758 on August 27, 2003, 10:55:00 AM
Post by: Raver758 on August 27, 2003, 11:17:00 PM
Post by: Hammy on August 28, 2003, 03:28:00 AM
It's because that every thing that we are told by any group is TOTAL bullshit.
We die and we rot just like any other animals on this planet!
Post by: Raver758 on September 01, 2003, 02:16:00 AM
Post by: Novahux on September 01, 2003, 05:48:00 AM
Post by: Novahux on September 02, 2003, 05:24:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| i'll hang my hat on the historical reliability of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ |
A book that was a collection of ancient word of mouth storys written down in a dead language and then translated dozens of times, plus modified to suit various monarchs over thousands of years. in my mind its ok to believe in a GOD as it give comfort in an insane world.
But to take the bible stories as fact, shows a level of blind faith thats quite disturbing.
The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence.
Thomas H. Huxley
Post by: Raver758 on September 02, 2003, 01:27:00 PM
Post by: phantazma1 on September 02, 2003, 01:40:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 02, 2003, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: Booger Bob on September 02, 2003, 04:49:00 PM
| QUOTE |
There is 1 god just diff relgions beleaving diffrently about this 1 god. |
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
I know the God of Christianity is very diffrent from other "gods", so dont go making Him equal to all the other "gods"
Post by: blackdragon on September 02, 2003, 05:15:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Where Do You Think You Go When You Die? |
I know for sure the answer.....six feet underground
Post by: Novahux on September 02, 2003, 05:44:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| first, the bible that we have today is 98.5% compatible with all of the thousands of ancient scrolls we've discovered |
and you source for this fact is ?
most likely from the same ppl that think the earth in only 4,000 years old
even if there are some cases of scroll matching bible passages, Its just old fable translated from a very old fable.
You automatically assume that the original scrolls are actually events when there is no and most likely never will be any way to prove or disprove them as facts.
Basic common sense tells us that we have no idea where we came from or what happens to us when we die. even respected scientist mix educated guessing to come up with their big bang & evolution theories. (although I prefer an educated guess than blind faith)
Im sick of this you must choose between God or evolution, the plain hard cold fact is we dont know and believing in someones else guess is almost as bad as taking a ancient collection of fables as fact and then preaching them onto others.
Post by: johnnobts on September 02, 2003, 07:09:00 PM
As for dealing with historial matters and in dealing with the Bible's reliability, most people are hung up on Genesis 1-11, the account of Pre-History as written by Moses following his time spent with God at Sinai. There are several theories that most evangelical Christians find acceptable, but many look to the the age/day theory, the events taking place in the 7 day period were not literal 24 hour periods. After all, the sun was not created until the fourth day. the hebrew word for day (yom) in other parts of the OT is used to refer to longer than a literal day (such as "in the days when kings went off to war (2 Samuel), which was obviously more than a few days, more likely generational). Under this theory, God could easily have created over long successions of time. Personally, I'll stick with the 7 day theory (literally) but I have no problem with other Christians concerning this issue. I do, howevever, have a problem with the science of carbon dating, which has a sketchy track record. for instance, 6 years ago a group of researchers, as a joke, carbon dated a live turtle. the results showed the turtle to be 50,000 years old... also, it is hard to follow the premise that carbon dating continues to be reliable the older fossils become. the only way we would know for certain that a 5 million year old fossil is actually dated correctly would be for us to take a bone, let it fossilize, wait 5 million years, and then carbon date it. only then would we be able to legitimize the process. what's really sad is that, as i said, so many get hung up on the techincal issues of gen 1-11 that they miss out on the important stuff, theology. for instance we learn in Genesis the really important answers about life: (1) who am i? I am God's special creation (2) why am I here? I am here to pursue a relationship with God (3) what's wrong with me? i am a sinner, and as a result of my sin, am alienated from God (4) Yet despite this, God has an awesome plan of redemption, one that spans the ages and finally culminated in the death and resurrection of his Son.
as for the bible being "fables," i would simply ask that you provide a basis for comparison. what other fables are you talking about. the only other ancient writing we have that most compare the bible to is the enumah elish, a babylonian epic that has a flood account. some argue that the jews borrowed this story and made it part of their writing. however, wouldn't it be just as plausible to suggest that an actual flood did indeed occur, one that was so catastrophic that all the descendants of man who survived after the flood remembered and passed the stories on and the stories changed over time? again, i'd like a basis for comparison here. please give me a list of other "fables" and i'd be happy to converse on these.
Post by: Mechazilla on September 02, 2003, 07:12:00 PM
Post by: Booger Bob on September 02, 2003, 07:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (Mechazilla @ Sep 3 2003, 04:12 AM) |
| You are but blind, like sheep. You shall be herded to your doom. |
Wow what an intellegent response
Post by: johnnobts on September 02, 2003, 07:21:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 02, 2003, 07:30:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 02, 2003, 07:41:00 PM
You're right, we have a burning need to worship. ITs in born IE genetic. Doesnt in itself prove the falacy of religion. We yearn to worship and believe, because of a myriad number of reasons. So we create myths and wars over bullshit. That to me is a very serious issue indeed.
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 02, 2003, 07:52:00 PM
the major controller of the bible IE the catholic sect, which maintained control of the bible and its books for several hundred years has lied and hidden and added parts of the bible to maintain is power. It has instituted itself as a money making machine. Many of its constituents are child molesters, and hide behind the power and awe of "god" to maintain their sexual perversion.C) Religion is used as an irrational excuse for violence IE the terrorism that exist currently. Much of its reasoning is derived from the misinterpretations of the quran by devout muslims
D) REligion allows people like Bush to exist and be president. By appealing to the large groups sense of faith/forgiveness/etc, he is able to be forgiven for his numerous crmes, and hide many more.
there are more things to be said, Ill say them later
ehb
Post by: kard63 on September 02, 2003, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 02, 2003, 08:41:00 PM
Post by: defiance2004 on September 02, 2003, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 02, 2003, 09:39:00 PM
Secondly, how did I contradict myself? Try to be specific.
thirdly, I will try to pull myself away from this thread and stop wasting all our times. none of us are going to change our opinions. In fact, this is strengthening your opinions, scary stuff
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 02, 2003, 09:52:00 PM
Our souls are not brains for our energy, Thats some bad science fiction right there. Like L.Ron Hubbard bad.
All religions worship 1 god with different names? What about when theres more than one god in a pantheon? What about when the gods preach totally different and in fact diametrically opposed ideas? WTF?
Raver, too much Xtacy for you....
Booger, you done picked too far up your nose and pulled your brain
AkumAPRIME, you got involved in a flame war with EDITEDITEDITEDITEDITEDITEDIT religious people(READ: impossible to alter their ideas.)
I really am going to try to stop coming back here.
ehb
EDIT: saying thank god is not a contradiction for those who need the point impressed, its an idiom that does NOT imply any religious preference!
Post by: Raver758 on September 03, 2003, 12:25:00 AM
Post by: Novahux on September 03, 2003, 06:24:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| again, its not about intellect here. we simply suppress the truth in unrighteousness (even the atheist, and the agnostic, or as like to call it, atheism-lite)... |
Please don't fuck with the word agnostic, the correct meaning is " Lack of Knowledge ", It is not close to meaning Atheist !
An atheist proposes that they have knowledge that GOD doesnt exist.
A Gnostic believes that GOD does exist
And an Agnostic concludes that there is insufficient information to make a decision.
I believe along with many others that religion only survives due to conditions from a young age, or a crutch for those in despair.
But I acknowledge that Agnosticism / Atheism could be considered the same as I am 4th generation from a rather famous agnostic family. And It would break my grandfathers heart if he thought I had found GOD as the saying goes.
To sit and ponder the logic of existence is a rite of passage for all humans, regardless whether you are Gnostic, Agnostic, Atheist
The end result is that something had to exist from nothingness, be it the big bang or some divine creator.
My grandfather once said to me that Religion is the manifestation of a common human trait, Arrogance ,
And Atheism is not dissimilar.
DAmn it, my replies are bordering on Lizard King length.
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 03, 2003, 06:35:00 AM
Gnosticism was a heretical christian sect many centuries ago, but gnosticism has come to mean "spritual" to some degree. I believe the philisopher who first said he was agnostic was the french one, very famous, slipped my mind at the moment. He said "Cognito Sum", I think therefore I am. If any one remembers his name please chime in.
Any way, so in Latin, prefix A-meaning without and gnostic, meaning spiritual. A-gnostic-without spirituality. So Im not sure where you get the meaning lack of knowledge from. It IS an important step away from Atheism though.
And Raver, thanks for your giant and informative, logically backed posts. Im sure youre a testament to allreligious poeple
ehb
EDIT: that would be Descartes by the way!
Post by: Raver758 on September 03, 2003, 08:40:00 AM
Post by: phantazma1 on September 03, 2003, 03:10:00 PM
Post by: Novahux on September 03, 2003, 03:35:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| call agnosticism atheism-lite b/c the agnostic, or the skeptic (in the vein of David Hume) would rather stradle the fence or take the middle-of-the-road approach to metaphysics and not choose one way or the other. by not choosing, they are in essence practicing atheism in their life, living as though God doesn't exist b/c they can't decide for themselves whether he does or not. i would submit that agnosticism, while considered to be a very popular and even a noble position in this post-modern world we are living in, is just as arrogant as atheism, and just as arrogant as the so-called Christians who are more intent on winning an intellectual argument than they are reaching out to those in need of salvation b/c of the Christ-like love God has put in our hearts for our fellow man. |
Perfect, this is the example of religious opinion I was hoping for. And it shows thier absurd you must decice arrogance. not just you johnnobts, I have many good friends that would agree with what you just typed.
Beliving in god is like beliving in Aliens, there is no urgency in making a decision, there is not enuff evidence to form a conclusion, Logic suggest its possible (more so than GOD). But it would be unwise to declare an opion as fact when there is no hard evidence to back ip up.
Post by: phantazma1 on September 03, 2003, 03:45:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Beliving in god is like beliving in Aliens, there is no urgency in making a decision, there is not enuff evidence to form a conclusion, Logic suggest its possible (more so than GOD). But it would be unwise to declare an opion as fact when there is no hard evidence to back ip up. |
i disagree with that. it is *NOT* possible that we are the only living organisms in the entire universe. this is one planet out of billions+ out there. do you think that we live in the only planet that was lucky enough to be close to a star that produces energy to bring about life? i find that possibility close to NIL.
god is different. no one has proven that god exists, but we have proven that life exists. so believing in "aliens" is more reasonable than believing in god.
Post by: Raver758 on September 03, 2003, 03:48:00 PM
Post by: Booger Bob on September 03, 2003, 06:22:00 PM
| QUOTE (AkumAPRIME @ Sep 3 2003, 06:39 AM) |
| Booger, it's very funny for you to accuse me of being arrogant, then to say you've never been lied to. Right, youve *never* been lied to. So then extrapolate the idea that people lie to the fact that the church has existed for a looong time, and that liers have been in power in the church. then think about it, if you can. |
I Didnt NOT say i have never been lied to learn to read
Since i know you will claim i edited the post check the times i edited the post over 10 minutes before you posted your remark
Post by: loai on September 03, 2003, 06:32:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 03, 2003, 07:08:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 03, 2003, 08:15:00 PM
lmao
Post by: Novahux on September 03, 2003, 09:20:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| i disagree with that. it is *NOT* possible that we are the only living organisms in the entire universe. this is one planet out of billions+ out there. do you think that we live in the only planet that was lucky enough to be close to a star that produces energy to bring about life? i find that possibility close to NIL. |
I'm not talking bacteria and shit or other evolved lifeforms in other solar systems, Statistically you would have to assume that there is other life out there, I talking about inteligent visitors to our solar system.
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 11:21:00 AM
There is no such thing as freewill- we are subject to our genetic and brains interpretation of our environment.C) Anything is possible, including the fact that nothing is possible.
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 11:35:00 AM
ehb
Post by: BestBuy on September 04, 2003, 11:47:00 AM
plz get a life
Post by: Booger Bob on September 04, 2003, 11:49:00 AM
| QUOTE (BestBuy @ Sep 4 2003, 08:47 PM) |
| plz get a life |
Sorry im not an uneducated moron, please dont make fun of me
Post by: johnnobts on September 04, 2003, 12:28:00 PM
but again, its not about being smarter or dumber than anyone else. the problem is that we suppress the truth in unrighteousness...
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 03:06:00 PM
Secondly - How can you know anything if you can't prove anything? You tell me to take a philosophy course when this is a basic socratic premise. There is a philosophy to "prove" all of the things we have to say, I was stating the assumptions I make so as to make explicit what previously was enthymatic.
I can already tell there will be some backlash to my "we can prove nothing" premise. I always remember thinking that we cant know anything, how do you prove anything is real, blahblahblah. then I was listening to socrates' philosopy, and he basically professed the same idea. The fact is that you cant define what is real. What, because you can touch it it's real? because you can see it, smell it? So what about hallucinogenic states, as CaineDNA pointed out.
Is it real because other people tell you it's real? because an old book that's been edited by a powerful, wealthy and survivalistic "religi-corps"? I can't wait to hear some ideas about how you can prove somthing is real! lets hear em!
Caine- I really am trying to not make this a flame thing, but just discourse between two opposing sides, and I realize booger et all will not change their moinds, nor of course will mine be changed, but perhaps others will be swayed. Plus I must admit I enjoy this.
ehb
EDIT: and I agree with your "cognito ergo sum" disagreement. My previously listed premises are in order of importance, so the "we know nothing" point supersedes all other things I may believe in. We can't prove reality exists, so how can we know our thoughts are real
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 03:16:00 PM
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 03:38:00 PM
(by the way that is a question to you booger bob. A yes or no and some explanation would be nice.)
You say you can prove many things, what are they and how did you prove them? Stop saying you can prove things and prove them!
I am arrogant, its part of my genetic code. both my parents are arrogant and stubborn. I don't really have a choice in the matter. Yet simultaneously I am quite humble because I believe we know nothing. So in a way I'm not arrogant.
Can I be held accountable for my arrogance? Can a murderer be accountable for his murders? If an animal has a disease, and we cant cure the disease, or teach it/punish it to change it's behavior, we kill it. We do the same things with humans. Can we blame peopl for their actions? I don't think so. Can we hold them accountable? Yes. Theyre two different things if Ive expressed myself correctly
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 04:50:00 PM
you also didnt answer my question about animals free will- also add if you think they have souls please
As for malcolms argument..... So basically, anything we come up with that is eternal must exist because not to exist would be inconceivable? Things can be sonceived of without them existing. In your reply to this post, I would ask you to explain the first sentence of malcolms revision. How is it that if something doesnt exist, its existance is inconceivable? talk about philosophical nonsense. There are plenty of things that didnt exist that came into existance. The second part makes sense. If something is defined as being eternal truly exists, then it must havee always existed as per its definition. But that has nothing to do with its non existance. So go ahead and explain, simply for all of us lay men, please, this revision. And state it in a way that let's us know, you understand. (READ: dont spout the same incomprehensible bull shit you quoted)
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 05:02:00 PM
Psychology, and even more so psychiatry, requires a PROFOUND understanding of biology and chemistry. Of course they dont have the chromosome down, yet. But the tests done via twin studies especially give us near definitive "proof" of personality being genetic ("Your just like your father...")
Now before you rant about me and the word proof, please read my A is A post and functionality in the "real" world
I also dont expect you to answer my questionis if theyre incomprehensible. I seperate and organize what I say to make it easier for you. I also edit typos when they make a sentence unclear.
Are you ever gonna' answer my question about animals, free will and souls?
Some might think weve gotten off topic, but there are some important issues that are based in psychology and biology that I want to use to address the belief in God and truth/knowledge.
I can really only do so until you answer my animal question? Are you stalling for time to try to figure out the best answer to give? Or have you missed my repetition of the question in my last..oh... three posts or so?
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 05:03:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 05:05:00 PM
Post by: Mechazilla on September 04, 2003, 05:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (AkumAPRIME @ Sep 5 2003, 01:05 AM) |
| The point of MAlcolms argument was that God MUST exist. Yet his first premise doesnt make sense. you think it does, Im telling you to rephrase, explain and "proove" it. yet you seem to be unable to or refuse to do so! |
Let him believe whatever he wishes, we do not live in a totalitarian society neither of you have the right to impose your ideology on others, nor do you have the right to use them to influence the actions of others. Both of you have the inherent right to believe in what you choose, and have the right to practice in any manner you choose.
Post by: Booger Bob on September 04, 2003, 05:16:00 PM
| QUOTE |
his existence is part of what he is: that is, his existence is logically necessary,....... But if God's non-existence is part of his definition, then his existence is logically impossible (which would mean that the existence of God would be a contradiction in terms, a logical contradiction). However, we know that there is nothing logically contradictory about a God who exists, so we can rule out the possibility that God does not exist. The only other available option is that he exists, and (as shown above) if he exists he exists necessarily. |
Im gonna clock out for now football is on, ill check your response(s) later
it also to good to have an intellegent discussion with someone
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 05:21:00 PM
Have to disagree with you Mech. We can certainly try to sway others.
A 4th premise of mine I should add is this:
4: there is no such thing as good/bad, wrong/right
So as to what rights we have, I don't think we have any excpet those we allow our selves
PS booger: I expect you to ask me the questions you have that are unanswered, then answer my animal, free will and soul question.
Actually though, if you're going to say that well established scientific studies are bunk, Im gonna stop right here, as youd seem then to be more willing to accept philosophical theory over emipirical "evidence"!
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 04, 2003, 07:14:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 04, 2003, 08:01:00 PM
I agree with Booger Bob
you are responsible for your own actions...
Post by: Raver758 on September 04, 2003, 10:36:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| What about kids who are adopted, i know adopted kids who are just like their parents but have no genetic relationship. People you are around have effects on your behavior. |
Like halle barry she was adopted by a white family.....
Post by: johnnobts on September 05, 2003, 07:57:00 AM
Also, using the transcendental argument for the existence of God here. Even those who would argue that God is not the standard of morality, but we as humans determine it (which is scary given our propensity to sin), without the existence of God as a properly basic belief, without presupposing his existence in the first place, all talk about morality would be meaningless gibberish...
but again, i'm not speaking out of arrogance, i'm simply trying to give a defense of my faith and the hope that is in me.
Post by: Novahux on September 05, 2003, 08:48:00 AM
Religion is on the decline, with more ppl having access to better education and information resources.
The misguided prejudices of our familys before us are having less of an influence.
Already most civilized countries run their schools and Justice systems in an agnostic fashion.
It is my hope that in a few hundred years, the bible will be in the fiction section where it belongs, until some credible evidence proves otherwise.
And AkumAPRIME
| QUOTE |
| Damn booger can you read all my post and respond in one reply please? that would really help. And Im not 100% on this, but he was born christian but desribed himself as agnostic, coining the phrase. Pretty sure at any rate. ehb |
Thomas Huxley is the one credited with coining the term "Agnostic" not Descartes (although you could describe him as one). Sorry to be a stickler, its a family issue for me.
http://www.users.big.....mas Henry.htm
Post by: Fartstick on September 05, 2003, 10:29:00 AM
Concerning all the comments about Christians only being mindless sheep- That can run both ways. I wonder how many who say that have never taken the time to study the Bible and form an opinion based on what they read...
PS: after reading my posts, I do not mean to point fingers at anyone here, just sharing my opinion of what I've seen pretty much anytime Christianity is discussed on Usenet, forums, etc.
Post by: cainedna on September 05, 2003, 11:37:00 AM
Religion is not on the downfall. Most statistics I've heard speak of religion being much more popular than it ever was. Christianity is on the general decline (aside from the US), especially in the Catholic faiths. Islam is spreading quite quickly, in the US and across the globe.I don't think Akuma was saying that he didn't think anything was "wrong," but he was looking at it as a natural observation. If I was a snake, and I ate some eggs, am I a foetal murderer, and should be charged as such? I'm a snake, it's my nature.
Equally, if I believe in everything the Old Testament says literally, am I sinning to eat a cheeseburger, or even make a graven image?
Bah. In any case, I'm still not sure why people believe in a particular deity over others. That'd be interesting. Why Yweh, and not Kali or Odin? I can accept if you feel like there's so much organization that some intelligent design must be around, but why the faith of your choice, in terms that can be understood by others (nothing inconcrete, my dad said so, etc.)
Post by: Booger Bob on September 05, 2003, 01:09:00 PM
| QUOTE |
If I was a snake, and I ate some eggs, am I a foetal murderer, and should be charged as such? I'm a snake, it's my nature |
There is a vast diffrence between humans and animals.
Post by: Novahux on September 05, 2003, 09:43:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| I honestly don't know why so many people have faith in the unknowable, many of whom I truly respect, while I can't fathom it. |
well said, this is the dilema of most Agnostics. Some prentend to be christian just to make life easier.
Post by: Raver758 on September 06, 2003, 11:30:00 AM
Post by: johnnobts on September 06, 2003, 09:05:00 PM
concerning myself, I'm a Baptist. The only other Christian denomination I would likely have become would have been Presbyterian, but i feel that the Baptist doctrine concerning the ordinance of baptism (for believers only) is more in line (and certainly more biblical) with the New Testament church. But first and foremost I am an evangelical Christian (i.e., a committed follower of Christ who actually understands that being a Christian means more than simply being someone who goes to church). Evangelical meaning that we proclaim the good news of Christ (evangelizo in the Greek means "to share good news" which is that Jesus has brought peace b/w God and man).
Post by: zorplex on September 06, 2003, 11:17:00 PM
(Thats actually how I ended up here, God works in wondrous ways )P.S.S.- Sorry for the essay, I am really tired and kinda got a little ecstatic. I probably wont be coming back here since I spend very little time in these boards in the first place, as you can see from my post counts, so any arguments toward my statements will probably remain unanswered from me, but I might check back later, you never know...
Peace!P.S.S.S.- Man, I would just like to state, I have sinned as much as anyone else out there, lying, cheating, etc. but through Christ I find salvation from my incompetence.
P.S.S.S.S.- Oh yeah, just FYI, I am a Christian attending and a member of a Babtist church, but attended Methodist churches until a couple years back when we moved in with my new Step-Mother who attended a Babtist church here in town. I am very interested in the Math and Sciences and plan to attend MIT if all goes according to plan, so Im not a theological major in any way.
P.S.S.S.S.S.- Sorry for all the PSS..., it was meant as a way to get some final fairly unrelated thoughts in that all started with the plug for Halo mods and kind of a joke just so you know, so dont flame me for it... :/ Once again I apologize for the length...
Post by: cainedna on September 07, 2003, 05:34:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| I believe there is wrong, without this basic standard nothing can be argued right or wrong, and all sense and logic is lost, creating utter chaos. |
I do agree, as far as certain things can be considered "wrong," but I'm not sure about your system of determining it's validity.
| QUOTE |
| If someone came to my house one day and killed my family just for the fun of it, I would hold them both responsible and accountable for their actions, it is possible for someone to do something wrong. |
In all honesty, just for the fun of it is a rare reason for anyone to do anything, especially murder. Usually motives involve money, fear, or beliefs. For instance, take the crusades. In retrospect, we understand that the crusades were wrong, because the true motives were anything but actual revelation, but from the point of view of a crusader involved, the goals were quite noble, to ransack and kill as many "heretics" as possible. That includes innocent women, children, most likely pregnant mothers, as well.
Having said that, if you believed that God spoke to you, and that you should kill someone, would you? Are there any instances that you would kill someone for your religious beliefs, not just self-defense?
| QUOTE |
| I simply cannot accept that truth is created as someone as imperfect as me, or can be explained by anyone less than perfect. |
In a lot of cases, that is the case. Laws are man-made. The code of Hammurabi predates the 10 commandments (to the best of my guessing.) One thing you must also realize, that I keep stressing, is that your ability to percieve the world around you is inherently flawed, therefore even if the truth you held was in fact, undeniable, your own judgments are not.
So if I think that it's more likely that there is no God, and that religion is a tool of the powerful (which can be historically proven, often,) then there's no place for actual truth to exist. That doesn't mean that society can't make these judgements itself, and agree that murder is something that we don't want to happen, as protection for ourselves and those we care about. Beliefs like that have been around as long as rule has existed, certainly before the New Testament informed us that Hell exists.
Post by: vesebr on September 07, 2003, 05:42:00 AM
read the book:
Many Minds, Many Masters
it will change your opinion forever!
Post by: leftwing on September 07, 2003, 06:29:00 AM
Post by: johnnobts on September 07, 2003, 11:25:00 AM
But again, as I've stressed repeatedly in my posts, its not about intellect here, it is much more significant than that. There are both brilliant Christians and non-Christians in the world. Smart people or dumb people don't necessarily become Christians b/c they're smarter or dumber (niave) than anyone else. We become beleivers in Christ through the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit, as he opens up our eyes so we may understand our true sinful nature and need for redemption.
Post by: jackster on September 07, 2003, 11:40:00 AM
If your dead, what you gonna do, moan about it? Your dead, you can't argue. The last thing you'll do is say 'damn, I'm dead, wish I could go back and edit my post on those x-box forums'.
Post by: Raver758 on September 07, 2003, 01:54:00 PM
Oh yea you know something that intrest me You know those shows Crossing with Whoever so they can contact the dead and talk to them. How come the parents never ask or the person never asks the love ones that are passt away if there in heaven or hell or where exactly they are?
To bring this out of the question
You know how we only have 1 earth do you think if we do ever figure out how to get light speed that we would find other earth's just like us. like who knows hundreds cause the galaxy never ends. There could be more then 1. Its like that show sliders. They might have cure for stuff we don't there whole history is different. Kind of a interesting thought if you think about it. I bet 100% that we have another living earth somewhere in space a lot of them we just have to get the technology to find them... What you guys think?
PS: As of now no one knows where they go. but lots of people say there is something waiting either if its bad or good. I Guess there so many theories on this that some questions just an not be answered. I leave the rest to you guys and your believes but no ones knows anything about this. I don't think you should fallow a book about what to do. Like they say you only live once don't forget it and enjoy life. If something's waiting for you in the afterlife then let it be who knows if its good or bad. You past your own judgment with your own responsibilities.
Post by: Gonefission on September 07, 2003, 05:41:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on September 07, 2003, 07:47:00 PM
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 07, 2003, 09:27:00 PM
Raver- I agree that there are alternate timelines, and that in those alternate dimensions there are other earths, but not in this space/time. Als, the galaxy does end, it's the universe you're thinking of that has no end. There may be other planets like earth in the universe, probably are, but not the exact same like in a branching dimensional paradigm.
The problem is that once you goto another dimension ( and this is all total theoretical nonsense, but so is this ehole thread
) you can NEVER get back to your own. For every action you do or don't take, another dimension is created. But you have to figure that it's not just your action, it's your actions along with every other universal variable. So every nanosecond, Terra Giga Mega Billions of Trillions of alternate dimensions are branching off of "ours". Also, if you try to go back or forth in time, you must enter an alternate dimension, or you'd create a paradox. The latter theory was hypothesized by Hawking, but at that pont it's not physics, it's philosophy. Anyway, don't want any dogs to die, so byebye, ..orr is it cuz im scared of the extemely logical and rational thinking thats been goin on here
? right..ehb
Post by: Novahux on September 07, 2003, 09:39:00 PM
or the XS
crack* squad will take you down.*ninja butt sniffing dogs"
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 09, 2003, 11:15:00 AM
http://www.personali...rch.org/bg.html
There, it states explicitly, with methodolgy and references, so you can't claim a bunk study without tell us all why it's bunk, that shared environments are damn near unimportant. Of course just google twinstudies, personality, and you'll see a hundred other studies like this.
PS, if you're psych book sdoesn't talk about twin studies, you should evaluate the book and class. These studies are an invaluable psych tool, and for it to be absent is a little strange. At which college are you taking this class anyway?
ehb
Post by: AkumAPRIME on September 10, 2003, 09:01:00 AM
good luck in life
ehb
Post by: Raver758 on September 10, 2003, 09:25:00 AM
Post by: Novahux on September 10, 2003, 05:32:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Hey Novahux do you have any stats behind your claim that Christianity is on the decline Im trying to think of a good way to explain, ill get back to you |
nothing factual, But, when I was young the whole town went to church on Sundays, we had Christian studies twice a week in state schools. Heaven was seemingly a factual place.
Now Out of around a thousand people I know/ related to/work with etc, none of them go to church on Sundays, 2 of them send there kids to a Christian school because its better than the public system.
Heaven has not been mentioned at a single funeral ive been too in the last 5 years (6 deaths).
Out of the last 8 weddings Ive been to only two of them were in a church and had a priest.
At my 6 year old birthday party last month, only 1 out of the 8 I quizzed had there child christened (holy water on the head thing).
So the summary is that at least in my immediate world Christianity and religion is on a serious decline.
Post by: Raver758 on September 13, 2003, 08:07:00 PM
Post by: Raver758 on October 14, 2003, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: kard63 on October 14, 2003, 08:54:00 PM
Post by: Xeero on October 14, 2003, 09:00:00 PM