Post by: CJLee89 on April 05, 2008, 05:58:00 PM
Post by: StrictPuppet on April 05, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
Post by: hamwbone on April 06, 2008, 06:45:00 AM
Post by: jesterrace777 on April 08, 2008, 12:19:00 AM
Post by: twistedsymphony on April 10, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
I just don't own FWD cars...
but if you can get over that the Scions are fantastic
Post by: CJLee89 on April 11, 2008, 11:27:00 PM
Anymore opinions/reviews are welcome!
This post has been edited by CJLee89: Apr 12 2008, 06:28 AM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 17, 2008, 11:54:00 PM
I have been thinking either a Scion tC or a Civic SI.
Any suggestions?
NOTE: We will never pay sticker price on a car so it needs to be able to be negotiated under 23k.
This post has been edited by CJLee89: May 18 2008, 06:55 AM
Post by: o The Drizzle o on May 18, 2008, 01:34:00 AM
Post by: hamwbone on May 18, 2008, 06:40:00 AM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 18, 2008, 09:40:00 AM
I want a 6 speed, which tC doesn't have, and the SI doesn't have much upgrades to choose from besides rims and the body kit. Does the SI only take premium fuel? I was looking at pictures online and the fuel door says premium unleaded only.
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 18, 2008, 12:31:00 PM
QUOTE(CJLee89 @ May 18 2008, 11:40 AM) 
Well here's the thing. If we don't get the price we think it should be at we straight up walk out and they pretty much tell us to sit back down to negotiate more. Car dealers are greedy and will do anything for business.
I want a 6 speed, which tC doesn't have, and the SI doesn't have much upgrades to choose from besides rims and the body kit. Does the SI only take premium fuel? I was looking at pictures online and the fuel door says premium unleaded only.
use http://www.fightingchance.com/
You fill out what you want, and they will fax out a purchase request to all the dealers in your area. the way they do it dealers will essentially outbid each other for your sale... you don't even need to set foot in a dealership until the price is already agreed on.
I've never used the service but several of my co-workers swear by it and all of them have been able to buy cars at <$500 over invoice.
if I was going to buy a new car I'd use it... but I don't like new cars
Post by: CJLee89 on May 18, 2008, 02:18:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 18 2008, 03:07 PM)
use http://www.fightingchance.com/
You fill out what you want, and they will fax out a purchase request to all the dealers in your area. the way they do it dealers will essentially outbid each other for your sale... you don't even need to set foot in a dealership until the price is already agreed on.
I've never used the service but several of my co-workers swear by it and all of them have been able to buy cars at <$500 over invoice.
if I was going to buy a new car I'd use it... but I don't like new cars
Thanks Twisted!
Any word on premium only? If this is the case the tC will obviously be my choice. I dont like spending any more money on gas than i have to because fuel companies are so freaking greedy!!!
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 18, 2008, 04:29:00 PM
going with a lower octane causes the engine to misfire which can lead to damage... technically modern cars can get away with running whatever octane level you put in it because it can sense these misfires and adjust accordingly... however you're making the car run in a way that it was not designed to do just because you're a cheap bastard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) you'll lose power, and if the dealer is an ass they'll void your warranty for using the wrong fuel.
the only time I might consider using the wrong gas is if you don't really care about the car. I drive a 240sx it recommends premium and I always put in premium. I know quite a few people who use regular with no problems at all, however these people are also driving 15 year old cars worth ~$4K and looking for an excuse to replace the engine... so consider that.
Don't just think premium= more expensive... consider the differences in the fuel economy. Figure out how how much 100 miles in a tC will cost you vs how much 100 miles in an SI will cost you figuring in the price difference between premium and regular.
Also consider the difference in price you're paying for the car... how many miles do you plan on putting on in a year... how many years will it take to make up the difference in the price of gas?
Technically speaking, as the price of gas goes up, the difference between regular and premium becomes less significant because the difference in price typically doesn't move as a percentage. Premium usually costs 10-20 cents more per gallon whether regular is $1 or $4... that means if both cars get the same gas mileage and you drive 1000 miles a month you'll only wind up spending an extra $240 a year on premium... If the SI gets better mileage, then the tC then you might even be spending less on gas overall even though you're buying more expensive gas.
----
As for the 6 speed vs 5 speed, it really comes down to how it's geared... for instance the 5 speed WRX vs the 6 speed STi... the top gears are pretty much the same between the two cars, but the STi has some what of an extra gear shoved in between 1st and 2nd when compared to the WRX... the result is that the STi actually has a slower 0-60 times because it requires 3 shifts instead of 2 and typically worse Autocross times because you're typically shifting between 3 gears instead of 2. It does better at the drags, and other racing applications though.
Alternatively the Corvette Z06 has a 6 speed but the 6th gear is so tall that it's worthess for anything but low RPM highway cruising, this gear is essentially only in the car to help make it more fuel efficient. the 6 speed in my fiancee's Mini Cooper S is the same way.
also keep in mind that in general 6 speeds have more problems than 5 speeds, they're more complex and more moving parts = more potential for failure. Also with a 6 speed vs a 5 speed in the same "package" the 6 speed is almost always weaker because they have to take out some of the internal bracing to fit the extra components. That STi 6 speed breaks about 5 times more frequently than the regular WRX 5 speed because the case is weaker. Many people who do big power STi builds will actually "downgrade" the transmission for this reason.
Obviously you're not considering putting huge power through your drive train, and I wouldn't worry about transmission failure in a new car... but consider how a 6 speed is geared before you go on about "wanting a 6 speed"... and keep in mind that more gears does not necessarily mean it's better.
This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: May 18 2008, 11:49 PM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 18, 2008, 07:08:00 PM
tC: 20 City/27 Highway
SI: 21 City/29 Highway
So over all the SI has better MPG with both using the recommended fuels. I will do the math later and keep you updated. Plus I was thinking that a test drive of both cars would help with my decision.
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 19, 2008, 07:37:00 AM
QUOTE(CJLee89 @ May 18 2008, 09:08 PM)
WOW thanks. I will take all this stuff into consideration.
tC: 20 City/27 Highway
SI: 21 City/29 Highway
So over all the SI has better MPG with both using the recommended fuels. I will do the math later and keep you updated. Plus I was thinking that a test drive of both cars would help with my decision.
yes definitly test drive both...
tC average mileage: 23.5mpg
SI average mileage: 25.0mpg
Todays average gas prices from: http://www.eia.doe.g...ini_report.html
Regular: $3.694
Premium: $3.919
assuming you drive 50/50 highway city, gas prices stay separated by the same margin and you drive 1000 miles a month.
tC price of gas in a year: 12000m/23.5mpg = 511g ... 511g * $3.694 = $1887.64
SI price of gas in a year: 12000m/25.0mpg = 480g ... 580g * $3.919 = $1881.12
$1887.64-$1881.12 = $6.50
Even with the Si using premium fuel the tC will end up costing you MORE in gas by about $6.50 over the course of a year
Of course with the difference in local gas prices and whether you do more city or highway driving, or more or less driving in a year will sway that number... even still IMO the price difference of premium is worthless as a determining factor. Also consider that if you force regular on the SI it might make the fuel economy worse...
...
In short... drive them both and decide what you like
Post by: CJLee89 on May 20, 2008, 07:40:00 PM
What do you guys think about a VW with maintenance and reliability?
A new SI is definately out of the question and Scions might be to.
I called a Scion dealer today and she said that with a new Scion, negotiations are out of the quesion. I think she is crazy. What do you think?
Post by: CJLee89 on May 20, 2008, 09:40:00 PM
Post by: hamwbone on May 21, 2008, 03:10:00 AM
as faw as VW's go, i worked in a shop as a manager for 5 years, any maintence beyond an oil change and alot of places will tell you to go to the dealer. Alot of models also use expensive oil filters, so take that into consideration. why dont you go take a gander and a mazda 3? and watch the newspapers! sure, it may not have every option you want but you might save a few grand. another thing to consider is financing, you might sdave 3k on one car but they might charge and extra 2 % on financing, over 7 years that may add up to 3 grand. take it slow, doing good so far, just dont impulse buy
Post by: xboxgamer733 on May 21, 2008, 07:21:00 AM
QUOTE(CJLee89 @ May 20 2008, 08:16 PM)
So i test drove a VW Rabbit and it was really nice!
What do you guys think about a VW with maintenance and reliability?
To date, I've personally owned:What do you guys think about a VW with maintenance and reliability?
- a 1981 Chevrolet Citation,
- a 1991 Isuzu Trooper,
- a 1994 Mitsubishi Montero,
- a 1997 Volkswagen Jetta,
- a 2003 Dodge Neon, and
- a 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix.
- a 2003 Buick Rendezvous,
- a 2002 Chevrolet Tahoe,
- a 2002 Ford Windstar, and
- a 2005 Honda Odyssey.
My Jetta was fairly expensive to own and operate because its well-documented engine problems, which, in my case, were the failure of the MAF sensor, timing belt, and oxygen sensor. The quality of its construction, namely its interior, seemed to be below-par as well. Some buttons and switches felt feeble, and the door panels didn't appear to be attached solidly to the doors. Even though it was cool-looking, zippy, and quite fun to drive, the car really needed to be 'babied' in order to not degrade in condition.
My personal opinion of European (specifically German, since I've also test-driven a 1997 Audi A4 Quattro) is that they may not be built for the abuse that a young driver may put them through. Their engines and transmissions yearn to be controlled skillfully, their interiors contain components (like knobs and switches) that can break prematurely, and their exterior parts (such as weather seals) can deteriorate if the car is not garage-kept. I feel that cars of these origins would be best-enjoyed by the conservative driver who will dedicate time for his/her car's upkeep.
As 'hamwbone' already noted, you are sometimes required to visit a car dealership when maintenance is needed on Volkswagens. You may want to consider the negative impact that this can have upon you, especially if any of your future savings are being lowered by attending college soon.
It's very likely that current-model Volkswagens are built with higher standards in mind, but if you do decide to purchase a Rabbit, my advice would be to treat it with a lot of care, and maintain a 'repair fund' for the car's scheduled maintenance; the money would also be desirable if the car decides to 'nickel-and-dime' you with unexpected failures.
-------------------------------
If you take interest in an American-built car, I'd suggest looking into Ford's line. I've heard nothing but positive reviews for the the recent Fusion, and I'm pleased with the apparent quality of my cousin's 2002 Focus ZX5; both my parents' 2002 Windstar and my friend's 2004 Explorer have held-up very well, despite the abuse they have received. Because I'm thoroughly disappointed with my current car, I'm now considering purchasing a Police Interceptor, obviously the police-package Crown Victoria. I find it hard to understand why the 'Ford: fix or repair daily!' saying still exists.
Vehicles made by General Motors do not appear to be built with the quality that they use to be constructed with. Rather, looks seem to take a higher priority on their lists. I won't deny the fact that GM can design very sleek and eye-catching cars, but once a buyer sees past the flare, engineering faults can start to show through. My Citation and Grand Prix, and my parents' Tahoe, have treated us with more issues than I feel can be considered normal, which were mostly transmission and body problems. My parents' Rendezvous suddenly started to leak oil into its coolant, and would sometimes refuse to start.
Chrysler, in the form of my Neon, seemed to create a fairly well-designed vehicle. I decided to sell the car, however, because the engine started producing discomforting tappet noises.
-------------------------------
My most positive experiences were with my Japanese-produced cars. Aside from required maintenances, for the Trooper, I only had to replace its exhaust system after a portion of it fell off because of deterioration, and its thermostat because its heater didn't seem to function as well as it should have been; for the Montero, I needed to only replace the seals around its front driver and passenger-side windows, and its front CV boots. Even though both vehicles were SUVs, I feel that they well-represent their respective makers.
Although you may no longer be able to pursue your original Scion or Honda choices (as stated in your second-to-last post), keep looking around for similar kinds of cars by the same makers. Again, even though the Odyssey that I sometimes need to drive is a van, it really shows that Honda includes quality with all of their vehicle types. If I wasn't so attracted to the 'aggressive' nature of the Ford Police Interceptor, I would definitely consider a Honda or Toyota for my next car (not that they're not aggressive!). I also like the Scion xB, especially the older, boxier design!
So, that's mostly what I have to say. I hope you decide on a car that really suits you.
Post by: CJLee89 on May 21, 2008, 08:26:00 PM
I don't think we are going to get the Rabbit for one reason only; the closest dealership to us is about an hour away. If it wasn't for that it would be a great deal. '06 Rabbit, 37k miles. 13,700 price tag minus trade in value and probably more negotiation.
I looked at a few Focus' today and wasn't too impressed by them. They had a few great deals though. They are nice cars but the local dealership did not have any 5 speeds. I really want a 5 speed. lol.
My price range right now would be NO more than 15,000.
To add but not important: I saw a Mugen SI today at a local dealership. It was down right sexy looking! lol but not for a 30k price tag!
Post by: Tripme on May 21, 2008, 09:36:00 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 22, 2008, 05:53:00 AM
I'm not much a fan of the new Focus either... you might consider looking for a used SVT focus though...
They come with a 6-speed IIRC.
Post by: CJLee89 on May 22, 2008, 08:04:00 AM
That SVT looks sweet! Maybe I will find one that is close to home. =]
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 22, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
I have a friend that bought an SVT Focus the last year they made them... he's a real car guy too, worked on my WRX with me, into offroad vehicles like jeeps and the like... he loves the SVT and still drives it daily, he even drive it on road trips cross-country a few times a year to visit friends and relatives.
I know there are a few other focus fans on these boards too.
FWIW it shares the same chassis as the Mazda 3 and the Volvo S40
IMO if you're going to buy an American-Made compact car the Focus is it...
Post by: CJLee89 on May 22, 2008, 07:18:00 PM
We are going tuesday to test drive some cars.
I found a 2006 5 speed Ford Fusion and a 2005 Mustang 6 cylinder 5 speed. Both within my price range.
We also have to factor in insurance for any car we are looking into.
Post by: hamwbone on May 23, 2008, 06:09:00 AM
Post by: o The Drizzle o on May 23, 2008, 06:18:00 AM
QUOTE(hamwbone @ May 23 2008, 07:45 AM)
insurance wise, the fewer the doors, the higher the insuance
so
(price/doors) = insurance....so more doors would lower the price...
what if you....do the unthinkable and divide by zero by getting a motorcycle
that would leave insurance companies scratching their heads haah
....or you go all out and ride around on a remote controller king size bed. thatd be pimp!
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 23, 2008, 08:09:00 AM
my vehicles, being old and generally pre-dating crumple zones and side impact air bags have a higher cost to insure than my fiancee's mini cooper, and I'm only doing liability on my cars while she has full coverage.
collision is the next most expensive part of insurance and that's based on the car's value.
This your rate is also multiplied by a factor in terms of how often that make and model gets in accidents or gets ticketed
similarly you also have a multiplier based on a factor of how often someone of your age and sex get in an accident or get ticketed.
a male under 25 driving an old valuable sports car pays more in insurance than anyone else.
Post by: lostboyz on May 23, 2008, 09:08:00 PM
stick with the previous model focus (esp if you can snag an SVT)
if you get a fusion try and find one with a v6 and awd, then its actually a very fun car (slower cousin of a mazda speed 6)
the new focuses (focii?) are very dependable, great gas mileage and not too slow. There seems to be a a big mod scene for them even only being out 6-8 months now. I can also attest to the safety ratings
With gas the way it is you will be seeing a shit ton of the new focuses around, at least I am here in SE michigan.
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 23, 2008, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 23, 2008, 10:15:00 PM
The Mustang I can already tell is going to be too much on insurance without even having numbers ran. And with only 19 MPG, that will suck real bad.
The Fusion looks like a nice car in and out. Test driving it Tuesday! As well as some Focus'.
Still open for suggestions.
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 25, 2008, 12:16:00 AM
-Subaru Impreza
-Mazda 3
-Mitsubishi Lancer
-Toyota Matrix
-Nissan Altima
Post by: o The Drizzle o on May 25, 2008, 01:14:00 AM
but one day.... i put some oil in... forgot to put the cap back on. drove about 5 miles to my friends. on the way there, it turned off a few times on me... but once i got to my friends, i lifted the hood... no oil cap
. luckily it was wedged in between two things... about a week later... on my way home from school, it started clicking. i thought whatever, ill look when i get home. didnt make it home i still think if it wasnt for that... id still have it. plus, when i got it, it was like $900 hah. power windows too!
Post by: lostboyz on May 25, 2008, 11:04:00 AM
the new pontiac vibe is really nice, no idea how it drives
Post by: grim_d on May 25, 2008, 01:09:00 PM
QUOTE(lostboyz @ May 25 2008, 06:40 PM)
mazda 3 is excellent, especially if you are lucky enough to get a speed 3, though it would be out of your price range.
is that the same as the mps over here? if so its a lovely looking car but it suffers from a major flaw..
..its FWD, and thats a 2.3 T (260bhp) throught the front wheels, silly. Those little cars would be a perfect hot-hatch it if only they made it AWD
Post by: lostboyz on May 25, 2008, 01:58:00 PM
EDIT: and from a quick google image search, mps looks like the equivalent of our 'mazda speed' branding. I saw a 3 and 6 'mps'
Post by: grim_d on May 25, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
but no amount of traction control/stability management/suspension tweeking eradicates understeer. Power out would be a nightmare.
and with an already hefty 1500 kgs, the AWD would be hardly noticable for weight, but the handling would benefit greatly. For what it would add you could easy shave off by ripping the interior out
if your worrying about gas mileage on a Forced induction car then you bought the wrong car
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 27, 2008, 06:55:00 AM
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 25 2008, 03:45 PM)
is that the same as the mps over here? if so its a lovely looking car but it suffers from a major flaw..
..its FWD, and thats a 2.3 T (260bhp) throught the front wheels, silly. Those little cars would be a perfect hot-hatch it if only they made it AWD
you're not from the US so let me explain this...
it's nigh impossible to find an AWD car here...
All Subarus are AWD, you can buy SOME Audi's in AWD (but in general they'll only let you get AWD if it has a Auto transmission instead of a proper stick)
I think you can get the Mazda Speed 6 in AWD and yup... beyond that AWD is only available on SUVs and $60K luxury cars...
And people wonder why Amerians buy SUVs... it's because they offer garbage for low end vehicles... if you don't want FWD you're pretty much limited to SUVs and trucks... and forget about buying a stick shift... that's a special order
Post by: grim_d on May 27, 2008, 08:00:00 AM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 27, 2008, 11:37:00 AM
I love it already and only have had for a few hours. Nice ride, shifting is very smooth, power everything, cruise control, keyless entry. Its loaded! for ~13,000.
Post by: twistedsymphony on May 27, 2008, 01:44:00 PM
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 27 2008, 10:36 AM)
my point was the mazda 3 mps should be AWD, it's FWD here too.
I realize what you were saying... my point is that there is no AWD alternative in the US... so while FWD in Europe puts it behind it's competitors... it has no AWD competitors in the US.
QUOTE(CJLee89 @ May 27 2008, 02:13 PM)
Well guys it's final! Got a 2006 Ford Fusion, 2.3 I-4, 5-speed and about 23,000 miles.
I love it already and only have had for a few hours. Nice ride, shifting is very smooth, power everything, cruise control, keyless entry. Its loaded! for ~13,000.
Cool.... Pics please
Post by: CJLee89 on May 27, 2008, 03:37:00 PM
For now: http://66.219.164.74...archvkid=267594
Not sure how long it will be up but heres a link to the car.
Post by: lostboyz on May 27, 2008, 04:14:00 PM
Post by: CJLee89 on May 27, 2008, 06:59:00 PM
Post by: hamwbone on June 03, 2008, 12:23:00 AM
Post by: CJLee89 on June 03, 2008, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: o The Drizzle o on June 03, 2008, 07:41:00 PM
QUOTE(CJLee89 @ May 27 2008, 08:35 PM)
Thanks! I love it so far. The only thing I have seen wrong with it, is that it whistles slightly going down the road. Kind of annoying but not big enough to gripe about.
man, dats only in da mornin'. youre suppose to be up cookin' breakfast or somethin'....WOO WOOO!
(if you dont know... youtube bubb rubb)
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 04, 2008, 09:54:00 AM
Post by: CJLee89 on June 04, 2008, 10:53:00 AM
I am going to be doing this today. When stock, the amber side marker does not blink. Not much involved, just taking the blinkers ground and splicing it to the front signals. Then the ground for the blinkers would be the front signals ground.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/ma...arkerflash.html
and LOL about the Bubb Rubb vid. He blew a stop sign and almost hit the other car lol. Whoooooooooo Whooooooooooooo
This post has been edited by CJLee89: Jun 4 2008, 05:58 PM
Post by: twistedsymphony on June 04, 2008, 10:33:00 AM
doing that in a car is quite different than doing it in a console.
Be sure to solder all your splices then use waterproof heat shrink tube and then wrap it in electrical tape for good measure. anything less will cause corrosion and rust which will lead to faulty wiring down the road... remember, cars are a VERY harsh environment, ridiculously high and low temperature, lots of vibration, quick shocks and movement, water, dirt, potentially oil and sludge, etc... everything you do needs to be protected from those things.... not to mention the power source for all your electronics is quite unreliable and swings wildly in terms of the power it's supplying.
Post by: CJLee89 on June 04, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
This post has been edited by CJLee89: Jun 4 2008, 06:22 PM