Post by: jesterrace777 on July 24, 2005, 01:55:00 PM
http://www.flyinmiat...d... RED/WHITE
Unfortunately that sucker costs $5K
The Greddy Turbo kit is easily available for the thing at a cheap price but it seems pretty weak. About $1600 (adds about 30HP and is only 5-6PSI).
However, there is a nice jackson supercharger out there which runs about $2500 and adds 40%.
http://www.jacksonra...teIndexID=38403
So I guess the question is, what is the best value for the money?
I know that you can do more tweaking with a turbo but the supercharger seems to be an easier install and has less that can go wrong with it. Or am I way off the mark here?
Post by: leijae on July 24, 2005, 02:35:00 PM
Super | Turbo
_________________________
adds 40% | adds only 30HP
$2500 | $1600
Easy install |
more robust |
looks likt the super chager wins.... infact i may use the super instead of the turbo. Check out my project http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=424944
Post by: Rylinkus on July 24, 2005, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: thesideinguy on July 24, 2005, 03:19:00 PM
i guess the best way to figure out wich is the best cost efective solution is to devide the cost of eash by the hp gain, thus geting a dollar amount per horse.
Post by: leijae on July 24, 2005, 03:29:00 PM
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on July 24, 2005, 03:36:00 PM
If you looking for a cheaper one go with the SC.
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 25, 2005, 01:03:00 AM
Post by: slim_shady_jr on July 25, 2005, 01:31:00 AM
turbo i'd use for highway traveling or drag race setup. turbo is just hanging there and not decreasing gas milage.
supercharge is more for a manual street racer that likes to go from stop light to stop light
I a fan of turbo's........you can start with a small turbo=cheaper kit and then move up in size and boost as your pocket recovers.........LOL
Post by: thesideinguy on July 25, 2005, 02:43:00 AM
QUOTE(jesterrace777 @ Jul 25 2005, 12:14 AM)
BTW Rylinkus how would you say that the handling on your Z28 compares to a second generation RX-7?
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 25, 2005, 10:37:00 AM
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Okay but I have a second generation RX-7 with after market suspension and shocks. That sucker really hugs the road. Anyways, roughly what should I expect to pay for a firebird/Z28 (1995-1997)? (5.7 Liter V-8 with 6 speed Tranny).
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on July 25, 2005, 11:29:00 AM
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Well i hate to give you any adivce that might help replace your RX-7 (The 3rd gens are one of my dream cars), but they should probably go for around 5-7K. Just a guess.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 25, 2005, 04:38:00 PM
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Mine was 3500. And from looking around as I was shopping it's very possible to get a 95ish LT1 for 5K. Then it comes down to finding one with the options you want. TTops? Leather? Firebird or Z28? Etc
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: mynuffinfutsitch on July 25, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
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supercharger are know to give you up to 50% more horse
and they can be turned off with a clutch (not sure if they have them on all superchargers)
turbo are for most power out of an engine with the least amount mileage lost
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 26, 2005, 03:17:00 PM
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Post by: jesterrace777 on July 25, 2005, 10:37:00 AM
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on July 25, 2005, 11:29:00 AM
Post by: Rylinkus on July 25, 2005, 04:38:00 PM
Post by: mynuffinfutsitch on July 25, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
and they can be turned off with a clutch (not sure if they have them on all superchargers)
turbo are for most power out of an engine with the least amount mileage lost
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 26, 2005, 03:17:00 PM
QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Jul 26 2005, 12:49 AM)
Mine was 3500. And from looking around as I was shopping it's very possible to get a 95ish LT1 for 5K. Then it comes down to finding one with the options you want. TTops? Leather? Firebird or Z28? Etc
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 04:12:00 PM
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more than likely the trans-am will be just a litle more than the Z28, and rightly so. their basicaly the same car but the pontiac line is just plane beter quality. the suspention is beter and they didnt cheap out on the interior, among other things. the Z28 was GM's afortable alternative to the trans-am. its like th difrence between the lamans and GTO back in the day. the lamans was bad ass but was no GTO, althogh they were on the same frame and were very interchangable. besides you can always upgrade the looks of it to a 98 style look later on with a litle work and a little more cash. and imo i think the birds just plain look beter.
keep your eyes out for a WS6 modle trans-am , thats the major baddass.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 26, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
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You have to know the differences between the turbo and supercharger which seems nobody in here knows very much about turbo's.
I personally would go for turbo. Superchargers are instant, but you cant tune them very much. It seems you need to do alot of research on the workings of both units before you even consider buying. If I were you, I would go with a moderate sized turbo, nothing big becuase I hate lag. Then get a big ass fmic. All the piping, bov, all the lines you need, and all the other parts. Get a nice boost gauge and turbo timer. Without any internals you wont be able to push much boost, maybe 10psi safely. Maybe more idk Im not familiar with miata's other than swapping in big ass V-8's and also the mkIII turboII engine.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 08:07:00 PM
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Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 04:12:00 PM
keep your eyes out for a WS6 modle trans-am , thats the major baddass.
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 26, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
I personally would go for turbo. Superchargers are instant, but you cant tune them very much. It seems you need to do alot of research on the workings of both units before you even consider buying. If I were you, I would go with a moderate sized turbo, nothing big becuase I hate lag. Then get a big ass fmic. All the piping, bov, all the lines you need, and all the other parts. Get a nice boost gauge and turbo timer. Without any internals you wont be able to push much boost, maybe 10psi safely. Maybe more idk Im not familiar with miata's other than swapping in big ass V-8's and also the mkIII turboII engine.
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 08:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Psykomantis00 @ Jul 26 2005, 06:13 PM)
You have to know the differences between the turbo and supercharger which seems nobody in here knows very much about turbo's.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 09:08:00 PM
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and you base this on what?
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:48:00 PM
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Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 09:08:00 PM
Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:48:00 PM
QUOTE(Psykomantis00 @ Jul 27 2005, 03:13 AM)
You have to know the differences between the turbo and supercharger which seems nobody in here knows very much about turbo's.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:49:00 PM
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Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:49:00 PM
QUOTE(trey85stang @ Jul 27 2005, 05:06 AM)
turbocharger > any other power adder
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
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Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Jul 26 2005, 08:59 PM)
BTW insideguy, my 8 second car is a Supra. And I built in in NFS underground.......
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:58:00 PM
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 10:05:00 PM
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i've hade some prety close calls as of late my self. i'm working the grave yard shift for a week, (2230-0700) i just cant seam to get my head right. my sleep paterns are all fucked up.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 27, 2005, 09:19:00 AM
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Anyway, the turbo doesnt get that hot "close to meltdown" if you have a decent intercooler. You can also use heat wrapping which spreads the heat away faster. If you have a nice size IC yo dont need to let the engine idle to cool it down becuase it woulndt get that hot anyway unless you were running an insane amount of boost. If you have a small IC which many cars have little space to install a big IC, or you could run 2 side mounts, or a small fmic and a small tmic, you could just have one IC thats small and then get a turbo timer. I dont really understand what you were talking about with the backpressure situation, but just to let you know, with a turbo installed you can take the rest of your exaust off and just use a big pipe running out the back and you would be fine. Thats what I have done and so many other people with WRX's do it because a turbo creats the needed back pressure you need.
Ive seen soo many V-8 mustangs with stock bottom ends just throw a super charger and get beat by fwd turbo civic's. Now they have used a ton of money on their car (dumbasses) but still, with a compoletely stock motor, a GSX eclipse beat mustangs. Before you jump off and say super chargers are better becuase there is no lag, you also cant tune them easily. The only way to change the boost is with a pulley. With a turbo you can set it at 60psi if you wanted to, altho you wouldnt have an engine anymore, you can go from street to strip with the touch of a couple buttons. And for a miata.... a miata isnt a drag car in any way. The best thing you could use a miata for would be drifting or auto cross. Instead of spending shitloads of money on a turbo or supercharger setup, just get a turboII engine form an older supra and rebuild it. It would cost less and you would have alot more power and a decent turbo setup allready installed.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 27, 2005, 10:28:00 AM
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An older Supra? No thanks. I used to work with a guy who had one and parts were virtually impossible/fucking expensive to get. Don't get me wrong, they are excellent cars for performance but they are a nightmare to maintain. I've already decided on going with a Supercharger reguardless of what car I get. Simple reason being that a Supercharger is more practical for day to day driving. Yes you can get more power, ect. out of tweaking a turbo but tell me just how often you are going to get to really use it. I don't care as much about quarter mile times as I do getting a quick launch and going from light to light. As for Turbo Civics beating a Mustang? Yeah, they can do it but let's be realistic here. A Supercharged 5.0 Foxbody can be had in good condition for about $7-$8K (cost of car + adding a supercharger). The turbo setup in the Civic that would beat a Supercharged Mustang would easily cost you that much by itself. Not to mention the fact that you would have to be pushing a bare minimum of 20lbs. of boost in the Civic to get it to the point where it would beat the Mustang. Once you are pushing that much boost on a Civic you are talking about serious mechanical problems. When they work they are unstoppable but they will be incredibly high maintenence and not worth much as a daily driver. Also it should be noted that the standard Supercharger that most people throw in their Mustangs is pretty weak. If they were willing to spend a little more money they could get a much nicer supercharger that would really increase the performance of the vehicle. It should also be noted that I don't intend to go with a Mustang. I plan on going with a Z28 or Firebird with the 350 5.7 Liter V-8 in it. I can get one of these (mid 90s) in great shape with a nice Supercharger for $10K or less. You certainly aren't going to get a Civic to beat it for that price. As for Mitsubishis, yes they are pretty cheap and can produce alot of HP but the maintenence on them IS A NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!! I would much rather maintain and operate a 350 Chevy engine than I would a Mitsubishi 4-Banger.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 27, 2005, 12:00:00 PM
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A turbo setup isnt that expensive. If you build it yourself its about 2 grand for a decent setup.
If you want a fast car for a cheap price, 10k or less, get either a 3kgt vr4 or a dodge stealth tt awd. Thats what Im working on. Dont get an F-body, everyone has one of those. Go with one of the late 80's early 90's model. Those look bad ass.
I always wanted to do a mitsubishi mirage with a 6g72tt in it, that would be the ultimate sleeper if you added awd.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: gerbertronic on July 27, 2005, 08:39:00 PM
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I'd go for the supercharger, they seem the easiest bolt on performance for factory motors. Turbo's are great and efficient but you really need to build the engine to suit them.
Before spending any money id look for forums devoted to your car see what others have done and spent. You may be able to get close to 40% more power with cams headwork and exhaust. Then you can tell your insurance company it only has an modded exhaust.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: iLLNESS on July 28, 2005, 12:26:00 AM
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well the real question is.. where does the miata make its poweR?
low end of the rpm range? or the high end?
if its low, supercharge it..
it its high, turbo charge it..
simple as that
a greddy turbo setup is a good first time setup.. as well as jackson racing supercharger... both wont give you very large gains.. but ull learn alot from them
the best thing u can do is peice together a setup peice by peice..
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 28, 2005, 06:20:00 AM
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A miata isnt one I would turbo unless doing an engine swap, then I would just upgrade the turbo and IC. If you want a serious gain in power, do an engine swap with the 3 roter engine and just get a bigger turbo and IC.
BTW this guy doesnt seem like he know's all that much about a turbo setup so more than likely he would leave out a high flow fuel pump, injectors, or wouldnt install the turbo properly.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 28, 2005, 02:31:00 PM
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Post by: Rylinkus on July 26, 2005, 09:58:00 PM
QUOTE(thesideinguy @ Jul 27 2005, 06:05 AM)
Post by: thesideinguy on July 26, 2005, 10:05:00 PM
i've hade some prety close calls as of late my self. i'm working the grave yard shift for a week, (2230-0700) i just cant seam to get my head right. my sleep paterns are all fucked up.
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 27, 2005, 09:19:00 AM
Anyway, the turbo doesnt get that hot "close to meltdown" if you have a decent intercooler. You can also use heat wrapping which spreads the heat away faster. If you have a nice size IC yo dont need to let the engine idle to cool it down becuase it woulndt get that hot anyway unless you were running an insane amount of boost. If you have a small IC which many cars have little space to install a big IC, or you could run 2 side mounts, or a small fmic and a small tmic, you could just have one IC thats small and then get a turbo timer. I dont really understand what you were talking about with the backpressure situation, but just to let you know, with a turbo installed you can take the rest of your exaust off and just use a big pipe running out the back and you would be fine. Thats what I have done and so many other people with WRX's do it because a turbo creats the needed back pressure you need.
Ive seen soo many V-8 mustangs with stock bottom ends just throw a super charger and get beat by fwd turbo civic's. Now they have used a ton of money on their car (dumbasses) but still, with a compoletely stock motor, a GSX eclipse beat mustangs. Before you jump off and say super chargers are better becuase there is no lag, you also cant tune them easily. The only way to change the boost is with a pulley. With a turbo you can set it at 60psi if you wanted to, altho you wouldnt have an engine anymore, you can go from street to strip with the touch of a couple buttons. And for a miata.... a miata isnt a drag car in any way. The best thing you could use a miata for would be drifting or auto cross. Instead of spending shitloads of money on a turbo or supercharger setup, just get a turboII engine form an older supra and rebuild it. It would cost less and you would have alot more power and a decent turbo setup allready installed.
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 27, 2005, 10:28:00 AM
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 27, 2005, 12:00:00 PM
If you want a fast car for a cheap price, 10k or less, get either a 3kgt vr4 or a dodge stealth tt awd. Thats what Im working on. Dont get an F-body, everyone has one of those. Go with one of the late 80's early 90's model. Those look bad ass.
I always wanted to do a mitsubishi mirage with a 6g72tt in it, that would be the ultimate sleeper if you added awd.
Post by: gerbertronic on July 27, 2005, 08:39:00 PM
Before spending any money id look for forums devoted to your car see what others have done and spent. You may be able to get close to 40% more power with cams headwork and exhaust. Then you can tell your insurance company it only has an modded exhaust.
Post by: iLLNESS on July 28, 2005, 12:26:00 AM
low end of the rpm range? or the high end?
if its low, supercharge it..
it its high, turbo charge it..
simple as that
a greddy turbo setup is a good first time setup.. as well as jackson racing supercharger... both wont give you very large gains.. but ull learn alot from them
the best thing u can do is peice together a setup peice by peice..
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 28, 2005, 06:20:00 AM
BTW this guy doesnt seem like he know's all that much about a turbo setup so more than likely he would leave out a high flow fuel pump, injectors, or wouldnt install the turbo properly.
Post by: Rylinkus on July 28, 2005, 02:31:00 PM
QUOTE(trey85stang @ Jul 28 2005, 03:52 AM)
WRONG, anyone with a welder (and knowledge) and some tubing accesories can work around any plumbing issue.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 28, 2005, 09:11:00 PM
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Any supercharger for under 1 grand will be cheap and not give great improvements. BTW, if your doing a turbo setup and dont have room for pipes, relocate the battery to the trunk, that saves a ton of space.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 29, 2005, 09:16:00 AM
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Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 28, 2005, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: Rylinkus on July 29, 2005, 09:16:00 AM
QUOTE(Psykomantis00 @ Jul 29 2005, 05:22 AM)
Any supercharger for under 1 grand will be cheap and not give great improvements. BTW, if your doing a turbo setup and dont have room for pipes, relocate the battery to the trunk, that saves a ton of space.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 29, 2005, 09:36:00 AM
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You could also look into a smaller intercoler, or instead of an fmic get a smic or two smic's, could even get a tmic from a wrx. Most people that mod their wrx's get fmics anyway so they arent hard to find. Many different options here.
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Title: Turbocharger Or Supercharger?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 29, 2005, 01:49:00 PM
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Post by: Psykomantis00 on July 29, 2005, 09:36:00 AM
Post by: Rylinkus on July 29, 2005, 01:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Psykomantis00 @ Jul 29 2005, 05:47 PM)
You could also look into a smaller intercoler, or instead of an fmic get a smic or two smic's, could even get a tmic from a wrx. Most people that mod their wrx's get fmics anyway so they arent hard to find. Many different options here.