Post by: nemt on July 16, 2004, 05:13:00 AM
EDIT: So take that, you hatchback/moped driving socialist european.
Post by: el_diablo on July 16, 2004, 06:06:00 AM
the bigger the car the less chance of getting damaged lol
nice pic btw lol
Post by: Psilocybe on July 16, 2004, 10:24:00 AM
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on July 16, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
Maybe because you want to be like us?
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 16, 2004, 09:55:00 PM
Anyways, I have to agree though that the obsession with SUVs here in the US is fucking rediculous. I don't give a shit if you drive an SUV and you use it fairly regularly to go off-road, use jet-skis, ect. but when I see the lady who just got out of the beauty parlor driving one while talking on her cell phone, I wanna beat the living piss out of her. I guess what I am trying to say is that SUVs shouldn't be driven for fad/status purposes. Like a truck they are designed for utilitarian purposes. Hence U standing for Utility. People who just drive SUVs around town for cargo, passenger space would be better off getting a Subaru Outback/Forrester or a Mini-Van. They would get at least 5MPG better gas milage with one of those.
Post by: Rylinkus on July 16, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
I can see buying a big SUV if you need the space due to a large family plus dog, or camping, or biking or something. And if you need to go offroad I get it. Beyond that I see no point to SUVs. I'd never spend 50K plus on a H2 when I could buy something I'd have so much more fun with for that money. Can anyone cay Z06 plus mods....???
Post by: PeteHam on July 20, 2004, 01:49:00 PM
Can hardly move around in your car in some parts of the world, thanks to all the TINY CAR CONGESTION.
Seriously though...we've always done things big here. I think Denis Leary does a bit on this, doesn't he?
Besides, why do you care? Keep sucking down those $4-a-gallon leaded gas fumes...and I'll keep hummin along with my big-block Ford. Did YOUR country even manufacture a big block somewhere, sometime? Didn't think so. (Keep out of this Oz-landers, you're cool right where you are)
And what is "maccas"? Is this some sort of foreign dont-move-your-jaw-when-you-speak bullshit? Please elaborate, you know we Americans aren't that bright.
Post by: Rylinkus on July 20, 2004, 06:08:00 PM
| QUOTE (PeteHam @ Jul 20 2004, 09:52 PM) |
| Probably because we have all this ROOM to spread out, stretch our legs... Can hardly move around in your car in some parts of the world, thanks to all the TINY CAR CONGESTION. Seriously though...we've always done things big here. I think Denis Leary does a bit on this, doesn't he? Besides, why do you care? Keep sucking down those $4-a-gallon leaded gas fumes...and I'll keep hummin along with my big-block Ford. Did YOUR country even manufacture a big block somewhere, sometime? Didn't think so. (Keep out of this Oz-landers, you're cool right where you are) And what is "maccas"? Is this some sort of foreign dont-move-your-jaw-when-you-speak bullshit? Please elaborate, you know we Americans aren't that bright. |
You know, it's comments like this that give others the impression that Americans are ignorant. Why not promote smaller cars. Help the environment. (We do only have one
)Only one warning, this IS NOT going to become an anti American or anti European thread. You can dump that shit elsewhere. Keep it on track and vaguely intelligent or it'll be closed.
Frankly I'm very interested in some of the differences in cars in different parts of the world. There's plenty of cars we don't get I'd love. Skylines and Pumas being the 2 that jump to mind. I know Skylines had to do with emissions and crash testing. I wonder about Pumas.
And it's interesting to see some of the laws that cars must adhere to in other countries. Kenji was talking to me about his 86 via PMS. And many mods were not kosher. Hood pins, rims being too big, others I can't remember. Pretty stupid stuff if you ask me.
Post by: PeteHam on July 21, 2004, 07:44:00 AM
| QUOTE (Asmodeus @ Jul 21 2004, 03:01 AM) |
| The first part of the answer you are looking for is simple: BECAUSE WE CAN! . My friend had a 6 cylinder Mustang....and it could eat almost every German car we saw on the road for lunch (and Euro cars didn't have emissions....screw the environment...LOL!). The worst part is gas is so expensive in Europe that they do not bother to put decent bumpers on the cars (weighs to much....and weight means less gas mileage) so they have 300 car pileups because everyone is driving a lunchbox (and cannot stop or move out of the way). I always thought it was very odd that (in Germany) they did not allow a vehicle with ANY rust on it drive on the road (it failed inspection) but allowed cars to be sold without any REAL safety rating. While I was stationed in Germany (Mannheim) I was unlucky enough to drive in a snowstorm (basically about 30-50 snowflakes). While we were driving home we saw cars off the road and upside down everywhere. The odd part (and I am NOT making this up) is that Germany did not require safety glass....so people (and parts of people) were scattered everywhere, with glass EVERYWHERE. My point.....when Europe has it's head out of it's arse about taxation (funny this is why America is here after all!) of gas.....let me know. Seems extremely odd that gas is twice as expensive there when the shipping distance is so much less. I am sure your governments are doing productive things with all the money that all of you drivers are throwing away! Also....in Europe, the roads are so narrow that they invented breakaway mirrors (the ones that can "bend" forward so that people can squeeze there cars down those little alleys. If an SUV was brought over there it would be riding on both sides of the street. So there is a little more reason for having them here.....we have room for them! Ironically, I hate SUVs.....but I hate pink, purple, and green cars too! The reason they make so many different types of vehicles is because so many different types of people drive them. Drive what you like, laugh at what you do not like.....but don't harp about it on a thread in some silly attempt to make Americans look like idiots! We can do that on our own! And we are pretty damn good at doing it! Thank you very much! Stupid picture.....you should have shown pictures of all the hairy armpitted wenches on your nude beaches! First time I went to the beach there I almost lost my lunch. Funny.....I also remember seeing a handfull of large women in Europe (Even saw large women with hairy armpits and legs!).....not much better in my humble opinion! Any country that sells room temperature beer and makes you pay for water (because the water has human feces in it from farmers....YES I SAID HUMAN FECES) needs to think twice about tossing stones at anyone else. Lastly, and I will FINALLY stop, European water (poop and all) has no flouride in it.....so that skinny tart wearing a thong turns and smiles at you all three of her green teeth invite you to stay and chat for a while. Seriously though.....turn your anger to something you need to have fixed in your own country!  |
Yet my post is "the ignorant, not vaguely intelligent one". I love it. Maybe if I had 700 of them, I'd come off smarter?
Post by: Rylinkus on July 21, 2004, 10:00:00 PM
| QUOTE (PeteHam @ Jul 21 2004, 03:47 PM) |
| Yet my post is "the ignorant, not vaguely intelligent one". I love it. Maybe if I had 700 of them, I'd come off smarter? |
If you have a personal problem with someone you can take it to private messages. There have been some facts put forth in this thread.
-Gas Prices
-Higher Taxation in Europe
-Emissions and Safety law differences
-Street Sizes
But to make a statement like.....
| QUOTE |
| Besides, why do you care? Keep sucking down those $4-a-gallon leaded gas fumes...and I'll keep hummin along with my big-block Ford. |
You think gas prices will never hit 4 dollars a gallon here. Keep buying gas hogs that you don't need. I'm all for an SUV or truck if you need an SUV or truck, but we all know the majority of them never go off road or utilize all the space. If you're just a one kid family, do you need 2 SUV, or would a Civic Sedan cut it as well?
| QUOTE |
| Did YOUR country even manufacture a big block somewhere, sometime? Didn't think so. (Keep out of this Oz-landers, you're cool right where you are) |
Some of the finest autmotive machines in the world are made in Europe.....
And making fun of "Oz-landers" is cool
| QUOTE |
| And what is "maccas"? Is this some sort of foreign dont-move-your-jaw-when-you-speak bullshit? |
And you can simply tell me how this is anything but ignorant.
Post by: UndercoverPunker on July 21, 2004, 11:33:00 PM
I like my big car cause I can put my subs, amp, full size spare, 3 snowboards and changes of clothes in the trunk, while me and 2 of my buddies drive out to colorado. (one asleep in the back, two up front killin time)
I'd also like to have a WRX... and a Hayabusa(i.e. smaller vehicles), but quite frankly, I don't have that kinda cash just yet...
Post by: AnThRaX on July 22, 2004, 12:01:00 AM
| QUOTE (PeteHam @ Jul 22 2004, 01:59 AM) |
| Sorry, on 2 points : 1. Wasn't making fun of Oz at all. Their cars kick ass (hearty thanks to Holden). That's why I said they were cool right where they were (as in 'where they stand'). 2. Knew I was wrong as soon as I posted this, and read the response. I'll keep my opinions to myself. Didn't mean to piss in your Cheerios. |
Haha you said cheerio.
Post by: Lorre on July 22, 2004, 04:29:00 AM
| QUOTE (Rylinkus @ Jul 21 2004, 02:11 AM) |
| I know Skylines had to do with emissions and crash testing. I wonder about Pumas. |
They don't make puma's anymore.(sadly)
You guys really think a big block SUV is safer or faster?
No way dude, we've got crash tests as well and lately loads of cars get the maximum score of 5stars for passenger security.
A Honda S2000 has a 2litre 4cylinder block without Turbo, and it creates 240HP and to stay in Europe, The Lotus Elise 111R has a 1.8litre engine with 192HP, also without turbo (using a Toyota engine tho...)
I'd like to see American cars do that.
Face it, because gas and taxes are so expensive in Europe and Japan, the manufacturers are forced to get lots of horsepower out of a small engine, and still make sure it doesn't need that much gas, nothing is better if you want engines to be modern, hi-tech and advanced.
American engines are (in general) way less advanced because of the faster car - bigger enginge philosophy.
Post by: Rylinkus on July 22, 2004, 12:44:00 PM
| QUOTE (PeteHam @ Jul 22 2004, 07:59 AM) |
| Sorry, on 2 points : 1. Wasn't making fun of Oz at all. Their cars kick ass (hearty thanks to Holden). That's why I said they were cool right where they were (as in 'where they stand'). |
Sorry to have misunderstood your statement there. Admittedly the Aussies have some amazing cars the US will never see. Holden is a superb example.
Another thing I'd like to touch on......
| QUOTE |
| A Honda S2000 has a 2litre 4cylinder block without Turbo, and it creates 240HP and to stay in Europe, The Lotus Elise 111R has a 1.8litre engine with 192HP, also without turbo (using a Toyota engine tho...) I'd like to see American cars do that. Face it, because gas and taxes are so expensive in Europe and Japan, the manufacturers are forced to get lots of horsepower out of a small engine, and still make sure it doesn't need that much gas, nothing is better if you want engines to be modern, hi-tech and advanced. American engines are (in general) way less advanced because of the faster car - bigger enginge philosophy. |
I know there are HP and displacement restrictions in some places. Obviously an S2000 is not designed based ona HP number and these are very cool, sporty example, while many cars in Europe are much less cool.
One point is that the S2000 engine is not as impressive as everyone thinks. The HP/ displacement numbers are amazing, but who cares about that really? The less advanced, bigger, Camaro LT1 produces more HP, powers a faster car, and gets similar gas mileage. So while the engineering to make a 2.0 push 240hp is great, is it any better then a V8 that makes the same or better numbers?
I think there is a definate excess thing going on in American where everyone needs a "bigger and better" vehichle. But most people could opt for a slightly smaller model and never see any difference in the results.
Also a few posts back someone mentioned a V6 Stang on the Autobahn. I met a guy with a highly modded 5.0 Stang GT (99 I think) at Epping. The whole thing that started him modding was being on the Autobahn with it while he was stationed in. He had his bone stock 5.0 GT and got left for dead by an Escort Cosworth. "Fully loaded with French men", he said. It was then that he realized his car was not fast enough and began modding it.
Post by: Lorre on July 22, 2004, 12:55:00 PM
| QUOTE (Rylinkus @ Jul 22 2004, 08:47 PM) |
| So while the engineering to make a 2.0 push 240hp is great, is it any better then a V8 that makes the same or better numbers? |
Not really, but if the Honda-people can get 240HP out of a 2litre block, imagine what they could do with a big 5litre V8 or anything like that...
Besides, if anybody should care, all compact Holden's are exact copies of European compact cars, but there bigger ones are nice, though I don't understand why 1 brand needs 3 different cars that look just as big and fast and expensive
Post by: Rylinkus on July 22, 2004, 09:49:00 PM
| QUOTE (Lorre @ Jul 22 2004, 08:58 PM) |
| Not really, but if the Honda-people can get 240HP out of a 2litre block, imagine what they could do with a big 5litre V8 or anything like that... |
I agree to some degree, but....
1 They haven't ventured into V8s for normal production vehichles.
And
2. (Same as before), Will a 5 liter V8 making 450hp be impressive if Chevy manages on with higher HP numbers, more cylinders, bigger displacement, and yet still gets the same gas numbers? I know you can argue Chevy hasn't made a 10 liter V12, but they could I suppose. Just as Honda COULD make a V8.
Trust me, as an engineer I'm amazed at how well Honda utilizes the small displacement they have. I think over 100hp per liter is awesome. But at the same time they need to get their gas consumption down. Because even if it utilizes more technology I have a hard time saying it's more advanced then Chevy's archaic pushrods when it can't trump Chevy's numbers. To me advanced means better, and I'm not sure it is.
Post by: Rylinkus on July 22, 2004, 09:54:00 PM
| QUOTE (PeteHam @ Jul 23 2004, 01:32 AM) |
Nice to see Ford does the same thing globally...  Not necessarily with the 'big' aspect, but 3 models which are basically the same. But that's what makes it fun when parts-hunting, right? "Yeah, those spindles will work on models 1 and 3, but not model 2." |
But there are SOO many crossplatform cars now that utlize similar parts and frames. My Ford Probe and a Mazda MX6 and 626 are mechincally identical minus suspension and gear ratios. (Though you can interchange them no problem.) The MX3 shares a lot of common parts with all 3.
Any car company needs to offer a variety of choices to hit every possible part of the market. I wouldn't ever have bought a 626, but I'm sure a lot of moms wouldn't own Probes. So once you determine that you need a variety of wagons, coupes, SUVs, and sedans, make it as simple as possible. Reuse parts to help in production and design costs. It benefits the company and the consumer since if your car shares parts with others, junkyard parts are more plentiful and the aftermarket will be bigger to support more cars so new parts will be cheaper.
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 23, 2004, 12:27:00 AM
Post by: Lorre on July 23, 2004, 04:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (Rylinkus @ Jul 23 2004, 05:52 AM) |
| I agree to some degree, but.... 1 They haven't ventured into V8s for normal production vehichles. And 2. (Same as before), Will a 5 liter V8 making 450hp be impressive if Chevy manages on with higher HP numbers, more cylinders, bigger displacement, and yet still gets the same gas numbers? I know you can argue Chevy hasn't made a 10 liter V12, but they could I suppose. Just as Honda COULD make a V8. |
...and at that point you reach the maximum size an enginecan be if you want to fit it under a hood
So, let them make 10 litre engines, any bigger is pretty impossible, at that point they'll HAVE to fin other ways to make engines more powerfull.
Btw I found the ultimate example of how advanced European engines can be: Diesels!
BMW makes a 2.0 litre diesel engine that produces 150HP
They also just released there new 3.0litre straight 6 with biturbo : 272HP and 560NM
..and those things need verrrry few diesel to run...trust me (I don't know how to convert l/100km to miles per gallon, otherwise I'd give you the numbers)
Post by: Rylinkus on July 23, 2004, 10:22:00 PM
Post by: moistness on July 24, 2004, 12:58:00 PM
| QUOTE (Asmodeus @ Jul 21 2004, 04:01 AM) |
| The first part of the answer you are looking for is simple: BECAUSE WE CAN! A little more seriously, because we do not have to pay the exorbitant prices that europeans do. Gas is nearly half the cost here. If you could get gas for half the price you might even consider buying a car with more than 90 HP. Kind of sad that Germany has the autobahn and no one can afford the gas for a car worthy of driving on it. Insurance for a V8 in Germany was very expensive while I was stationed there. My friend had a 6 cylinder Mustang....and it could eat almost every German car we saw on the road for lunch (and Euro cars didn't have emissions....screw the environment...LOL!). The worst part is gas is so expensive in Europe that they do not bother to put decent bumpers on the cars (weighs to much....and weight means less gas mileage) so they have 300 car pileups because everyone is driving a lunchbox (and cannot stop or move out of the way). I always thought it was very odd that (in Germany) they did not allow a vehicle with ANY rust on it drive on the road (it failed inspection) but allowed cars to be sold without any REAL safety rating. While I was stationed in Germany (Mannheim) I was unlucky enough to drive in a snowstorm (basically about 30-50 snowflakes). While we were driving home we saw cars off the road and upside down everywhere. The odd part (and I am NOT making this up) is that Germany did not require safety glass....so people (and parts of people) were scattered everywhere, with glass EVERYWHERE. Body parts were being swept off the road (Literally!) and blood was being soaked up with some kind of grit that they were pouring on it. It was a very sobering moment for all of us in the car. We drove through a lot of blood that day. I found out later that the reason that so much glass was everywhere is because they used PLATE GLASS....like a window on a house. If you hit it....it shatters. Makes a HUGE difference in an accident. A friend of mine got drunk while we were out at a bar.....he got mad at a German dude, the German dude ran and jumped in a taxi. My friend decided to hit the window with his fist. I was just leaving the bar when I saw his hand shatter the glass all over the German. It was funny.....but it left the Taxi driver and German VERY angry and bloody! My point.....when Europe has it's head out of it's arse about taxation (funny this is why America is here after all!) of gas.....let me know. Seems extremely odd that gas is twice as expensive there when the shipping distance is so much less. I am sure your governments are doing productive things with all the money that all of you drivers are throwing away! Also....in Europe, the roads are so narrow that they invented breakaway mirrors (the ones that can "bend" forward so that people can squeeze there cars down those little alleys. If an SUV was brought over there it would be riding on both sides of the street. So there is a little more reason for having them here.....we have room for them! Ironically, I hate SUVs.....but I hate pink, purple, and green cars too! The reason they make so many different types of vehicles is because so many different types of people drive them. Drive what you like, laugh at what you do not like.....but don't harp about it on a thread in some silly attempt to make Americans look like idiots! We can do that on our own! And we are pretty damn good at doing it! Thank you very much! Stupid picture.....you should have shown pictures of all the hairy armpitted wenches on your nude beaches! First time I went to the beach there I almost lost my lunch. Funny.....I also remember seeing a handfull of large women in Europe (Even saw large women with hairy armpits and legs!).....not much better in my humble opinion! Any country that sells room temperature beer and makes you pay for water (because the water has human feces in it from farmers....YES I SAID HUMAN FECES) needs to think twice about tossing stones at anyone else. Lastly, and I will FINALLY stop, European water (poop and all) has no flouride in it.....so that skinny tart wearing a thong turns and smiles at you all three of her green teeth invite you to stay and chat for a while. Seriously though.....turn your anger to something you need to have fixed in your own country! |
When did you go to europe? 1926? Name me one car from germany that uses PLATE GLASS? Are you telling me that laminate glass is used for sidewindows in america and not toughned glass? What have bumpers got to do with how many cars are in a pileup?
Post by: Lorre on July 24, 2004, 03:04:00 PM
| QUOTE (Rylinkus @ Jul 24 2004, 06:25 AM) |
| I don't know if diesel engines are an advnacement. There are plenty of 4 bangers that can pull off 150 hp numbers. But it certainly has it's place. |
Nono, I didn't mean it like that.
I just mean that European car builders have been developping diesel engines so long and so far, they can now build diesel engines with the same (sometimes higher) number of horsepowers as a petrol engine, but with 40% lower fuel consumption.
Post by: jesterrace777 on July 24, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on July 24, 2004, 05:00:00 PM
| QUOTE (Lorre @ Jul 23 2004, 12:07 PM) |
| ...and at that point you reach the maximum size an enginecan be if you want to fit it under a hood So, let them make 10 litre engines, any bigger is pretty impossible, at that point they'll HAVE to fin other ways to make engines more powerfull. Btw I found the ultimate example of how advanced European engines can be: Diesels! BMW makes a 2.0 litre diesel engine that produces 150HP They also just released there new 3.0litre straight 6 with biturbo : 272HP and 560NM ..and those things need verrrry few diesel to run...trust me (I don't know how to convert l/100km to miles per gallon, otherwise I'd give you the numbers) |
Caddillac has a V-16 (Caddillac Sixteen), i dont know what kind of litters it has but my guess it it must be huge. And makes me think cars still have plenty of growing room.
Post by: UndercoverPunker on July 26, 2004, 11:49:00 PM
too bad the whole car wasn't made as well
Post by: Rylinkus on July 28, 2004, 10:14:00 PM
Seriously, it's nice. Just VERY pricey and perhaps not reliable. But how reliable are any supercars really?
Post by: UndercoverPunker on July 29, 2004, 01:54:00 AM