Post by: tupac on September 29, 2003, 05:14:00 PM
Post by: kkattfish on September 29, 2003, 05:20:00 PM
Post by: lookformeb on September 29, 2003, 05:45:00 PM
Post by: dmack_901 on September 29, 2003, 06:12:00 PM
| QUOTE (kkattfish @ Sep 29 2003, 09:20 PM) |
| not if he got you clocked. you could always plead not guilty, get a appearance date, and if the cop doesn't show it's dropped. it's also good to call the courthouse and postpone your court appearance once or twice, may confuse the cop. has worked before. |
I does work. My dad has done that twice and the cops usually just don't feel like showing up.
Post by: BenJeremy on September 29, 2003, 06:21:00 PM
It still won't get you off, but I'd love to see the judge's reaction when you walk in his court like that....
Seriously, you probalby won't get out of it. In Michigan, the magistrates allow the cops to re-write the tickets if they fail to show up. It's a civil infraction here, which means you have no rights to fight it, really. The cops literally have no need for proof.
Post by: Psilocybe on September 29, 2003, 06:26:00 PM
Post by: Xeero on September 29, 2003, 06:28:00 PM
I've heard you can do the following:
Compose a form requesting the paperwork documenting the last time that radar gun was calibrated and validated. Copy it 10 times or so. Send all via certified mail with return receipt. If any slip through the cracks or are misplaced, you go into court with a report from the USPS saying you were denied the information. I don't know if it's subject to state regulations, but I've been told the judge has to throw it out if you were denied that information.
Post by: tupac on September 29, 2003, 06:30:00 PM
| QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Sep 30 2003, 02:21 AM) |
| Wear a bed sheet "toga-style" - Go to the store, buy latex surgical-style gloves. Place them on your head... Walk like you are in a Monty Python skit, and keep repeating the word "Kerflaffle" a lot. Lob several loaded Depends adult diapers at the people sitting in the courtroom. Plead "Earth Wind and Fire" and tell them the cop is made of cheddar jellybeans. It still won't get you off, but I'd love to see the judge's reaction when you walk in his court like that.... Seriously, you probalby won't get out of it. In Michigan, the magistrates allow the cops to re-write the tickets if they fail to show up. It's a civil infraction here, which means you have no rights to fight it, really. The cops literally have no need for proof. |
wouldnt that be double jeopardy? if they dismissed the case the first time he cant write u up again for the same ticket...right? anyway, i wonder if i could plea bargain for tlike driving school so my insurance doesnt find out...im 17 and insurance is enuf already
Post by: tupac on September 29, 2003, 06:33:00 PM
| QUOTE (Xeero @ Sep 30 2003, 02:28 AM) |
| I'm in Massachusetts, and I've beat 2 out of my 3 tickets with sheer bullshitting (the 3rd I just paid because I didn't feel like going to court). I've heard you can do the following: Compose a form requesting the paperwork documenting the last time that radar gun was calibrated and validated. Copy it 10 times or so. Send all via certified mail with return receipt. If any slip through the cracks or are misplaced, you go into court with a report from the USPS saying you were denied the information. I don't know if it's subject to state regulations, but I've been told the judge has to throw it out if you were denied that information. |
is that how u beat ur 2 tickets???? if not, how'd u beat ur tickets? also, i've heard that when u pay for ur ticket, if u send a check for say $75 when it was only a $70 ticket, they will send u a check back with $5 and wait till u cash it before they cash theirs so if u rip it up theyll never cash it.......
Post by: Psilocybe on September 29, 2003, 07:28:00 PM
Post by: rahula on September 29, 2003, 07:40:00 PM
| QUOTE (tupac @ Sep 29 2003, 06:14 PM) |
| I got clocked with radar going 72 in a 55. The cop was like 300 feet away going down a hill and i was going up and he turned around to pull me over. Any tip son how to beat this ticket? |
doesn't matter if you are look like your avator, cops will stop you for no reason anyway.
Post by: sk8ermike6789 on September 29, 2003, 07:42:00 PM
Post by: mjar81 on September 29, 2003, 07:46:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Guide To Effective Speeding State speed limits Let's face it, we all exceed the speed limit at one time or another and some of us practice it as a religion. A recent study found that between 88 percent and 96 percent of motorists exceed the 55 mph posted speed limit on interstate highways in the states that still have it. Since you are reading this booklet on speeding tickets you either already have one in hand or you are just trying to avoid one in the future. This booklet places the emphasis on trying to get out of the ticket before you even get one since this is the easiest method of beating one in the first place. I am not a lawyer and I won't go into too much detail about fighting tickets in court other than just giving you some common defense tactics that an attorney would argue on your behalf. Most states immediately changed their interstate rural speed limits from 55 mph to 65 mph after the federal government allowed states to do so in 1987. The states that still have the 55 mph limit are all concentrated in the northeast with the exception of one. The states are New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Hawaii. I wonder if the northeast states keep this speed limit so they don't have to fix all those damn potholes in the roads, which keep the local car repair shops in business. Pretty much everybody will agree that there should be some type of speed limit but it would be very hard to get them to agree on what it should be. Here are some statistics that may be of interest to you: Police point of view What you may not hear from states often are the statistics of how many police officers are killed or injured in the line of duty handing out speeding tickets. The numbers come from various sources but they indicate that 20% of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed while giving out traffic tickets. Of course there are more reasons to get a ticket other than speeding but the interstate highways are where most of these accidents occur. There also is the issue that there is so much more bizarre crime going on than in the past that catching speeders is a waste of manpower and resources. Insurance company point of view The insurance companies have always protested raising the rural speed limits from 55 mph to 65 mph since it is a huge loss of revenue. Car and Driver columnist Barry Winfield stated in an article that insurance companies "benefit from unrealistically low speed limits and the resultant high rate of speeding infractions." The smokescreen is that more injuries and deaths will result by raising the speed limit an additional 10 mph causing more claims but real story is that they can get more dollars from safe drivers. Driving 10 mph more than you used to does not mean you are less safe, it just means that you are now legal and the insurance companies do not get to charge you more money. They often cite the increase in highway injuries and deaths since the 1987 ruling from the federal government but they leave out numbers like the increasing number of drivers from one year to the next. Local Speed Limits If you are traveling 30mph in a 20mph zone you are going 10 mph above the speed limit and you are going to get a ticket and rightfully so. These areas are usually heavily congested traffic areas so right off the bat you will be dealing with some irate small town cop, but even so you may be able to get out of one of these (See: Getting caught). There is simply no advantage to speeding in local areas as far as a time savings benefit is concerned. The best place to speed is on the interstate highways knowing that if you are traveling at the posted speed limit most people consider you a hazard to public safety and should immediately be thrown in jail. One can justify the risk of getting a ticket on an interstate highway but not in a school zone at 3pm on a Friday. How Fast ? While you are cruising along the highway pick your desired speed of travel and stick to it. Using the cruise control if your vehicle is equipped, will help greatly. By this I mean if the speed limit is posted 55 MPH you can probably drive up to 65-69 MPH without being noticed on an interstate highway. The reason I say 69 mph because it is less than 15 miles over the limit and fines and insurance premiums sky rocket if you get a ticket at or above this limit. After picking your desired speed you will notice how many people will be flying by you who you will soon be using as shields. It is important to set yourself a speed limit that you are comfortable with and since you always know how fast you are traveling and that will also help you in court if the need arises. All police officers on interstate highways have a tolerance of how much you can exceed the speed limit and not get pulled over. I wish I could give you that number but there is no exact number to give since it is up to each individual cop to decide. A cop will most likely have different tolerances depending on time of day, weather, traffic density and more. A safe tolerance number is 5 miles an hour over the limit, you will not be ticketed for traveling 60 mph in 55 mph zone or 70 mph in a 65 mph zone. Average tolerance is 10 mph and a tolerance of more than 15 is unheard of. If it is an especially heavy traffic day a state trooper could not possibly handle all the speeders so he/she will simply increase their tolerance to adjust for the increased traffic. In the states where 65 mph is the legal limit I would not recommend any speed over mph which is a comfortable driving speed and within most tolerances according to the cops I interviewed. In these states it is not uncommon to be passed by some idiot doing 90 mph, cellular phone in hand, and if that is you, you deserve a ticket and this manual won't help you (as much). "See and Avoid" Needless to say, if you are breaking the law you should be observant about your surroundings. Most situations that will result in you getting a speeding ticket could have been avoided in the first place by being alert. The initial speeding violation may also open you up to other tickets that you may not even be aware of such as expired inspections and registrations and seat belt use, or lack thereof. Pilots are trained to scan the skies for other aircraft at all times and spend a great deal of time with their eyes outside the cockpit using the "See and Avoid" method. Below are some ways to scan the surroundings to avoid being spotted and even getting clocked on the radar: Opposite direction of travel One of the easiest and most reliable cop detectors available is oncoming cars flashing their headlights. This signal indicates either a roadblock, a cop sitting on the median, or a cop with someone pulled over up ahead issuing a ticket. Headlight signaling has been reliable but the problem is that only about 10% of the drivers will extend this courtesy to you and then for only about a mile or two down the road. On heavily traveled days this can be very dependable especially on interstate highways so always keep an eye out for the flashing of headlights day or night. Same direction of travel Here you will be looking not for headlights but for brake lights. There is little need to tap your brakes on an interstate highway on even the busiest days so if you see a car or cars ahead of yours brake lights come on for no observable reason, the driver is probably hitting the brakes from instinct after seeing a cop. Also keep your eyes glancing towards the rear view mirror periodically to watch out for cops coming up from behind and surprising you Cop with a driver pulled over Don't worry about the cop with someone pulled over ahead because unless you are dangerously exceeding the limit they will not stop writing a ticket to give you one. There is a myth out there that when you see a cop on the side of the road with a customer there will probably be no more cops on that stretch of road for the next 20-30 miles. This can be true and I have noticed this but I have also noticed cops working in pairs so don't rely on this too much. The median The median, or the mall as some call it, is where you usually find the cops hanging around waiting to catch speeders. The best spot on the median is the No U Turn crossover and this is where you will find the cops 85% of the time while traveling on interstate highways. The No U Turn signs indicate that there is a crossover coming up and if you see a No U Turn sign coming around a turn beware since that is one of the favorite spot. They will also set up shop in the median where there is no official crossover ,such as set back into some trees somewhere. It is important to notice the construction of the median especially if you travel the same highway often. Notice where the cross over points are that a cop could use if they are going the opposite direction and decide to come get you. There are some situations where there is no median other that a concrete barrier and this is almost a license to speed since they can't hide there or turn around for quite some time. Under the overpass Another favorite spot is under bridges or an overpass and this especially true on hot summer days since the shade is the place to be. There are no signs to indicate an overpass is coming up so your best indicators are visual and your speeding tools. Speeding Essentials What lane to travel in The best lane to travel in on multi lane highways to reduce your chances of a ticket is the far right lane if traffic allows. The reason is that cops usually have their radar focused on the left or passing lane. Be aware of traffic behind you since you may get caught from police vehicles entering the highway from an entrance ramp. Another advantage to the right lane is that trucks and other vehicles will be between you and the radar if the cop is set up in the median and this makes a great reason to dismiss the ticket in court due to inaccurate radar readings because of obstructions. Just say it was the other guy. The Shield The shield is one of my favorite techniques because it virtually always works and it is always free. Basically the way it works is you maintain your selected speed and you stay there until some sucker passes you, preferably a tractor trailer. After they pass you adjust your speed so that you maintain a reasonable distance of 1/4 mile or so and follow them keeping an eye out for brake lights. Using the +14 mph or +9 mph standard it will not be long before another sucker comes up from behind to be your new shield. 18 wheelers make the best shields because they almost always have a CB and make a better catch for cops. Truck drivers drive for a living and if they are speeding I assume it is safe for me to do so. Think about all the trucks you notice speeding and how rare you see one pulled over. The only flaw with using the shield exclusively is that again you must constantly be aware of what is coming up behind you. Radar Detectors Radar detectors can both help you and hurt you. The technology will always be ahead of the driver in favor of law enforcement and this is a never ending cycle that will leave you constantly playing catch up if you rely on this device on a daily basis. By using the shield method above let someone else buy the latest technology and you can just tag along for free. Truck drivers who drive for a living depend on the CB more that they rely on a radar detector since radar detectors are illegal in most states in vehicles registered over 18, 000 lbs. GVW. The radar detector is most useful to you when driving alone late at night and there is little CB chatter going on. They are the only defense against radar late at night on isolated back roads and then, only following someone as a shield. Most cops are equipped with an instant on/off button so by using the shield your radar detector will detect the cop taking a reading on the car in front of yours thus allowing you ample time to slow down. The research that I have is pretty unanimous in that if you get stopped for speeding and the cop sees a radar detector mounted in your vehicle you will get a ticket. The reasoning is that the cops feel that you were definitely intending to speed if you are sporting a radar detector by being sneaky about it. Have your radar detector set up so you can quickly remove it without the cop seeing what you are doing in the event that you do get pulled over. A task a little easier said that done. CB Radios The CB radio is a very powerful tool and the best on interstate highways to combat speeding tickets since it will give you more information than any radar detector will. I once drove from New York to Florida speeding all the way in a truck with just a CB radio and it was a lifesaver. It is not necessary to go out and by a $250.00 radio in order to take advantage of this since Radio Shack sells CB radio Channel 19 receivers only for about $19.00 and that is all you really need. If there is a cop in the vicinity, his location will surly be broadcast over the airwaves and you can take immediate action. Keep in mind that cops also monitor the CB radio and move around a lot but this is still the best defense and there is little they can do to defeat this. The Weapons Unmarked cars Spotting unmarked cars is very easy to the trained eye. They are usually late model, domestic four door cars stripped down as much as possible. They will have the cheapest hubcaps if any at all, have a one tone paint job with no fancy trim and be littered with antennas. Another sign is the spotlight sticking out of the driver's side front post. Basically what you end up with in an unmarked car is a full size luxury sedan that is stripped down to the bones that no civilian would be caught bringing home from a new car dealer. I really wonder if some civilians order their cars this way? Speed Traps Speed traps are a common way to increase revenue in the most efficient manner possible. They way they work is one cop will nestle into the median somewhere, usually in the trees, record your speed on radar, then radio down to the ticket writers usually over a hill or around a curve what your speed is and a description of the vehicle. Once you come around the curve and see a cop it is too late since they already know your speed. A uniformed officer will bravely be outside directing you to pull over with the other victims of the trap. There is a limit to how many speeders they can handle so once they become backlogged with five or six victims they will radio the radar car and tell it to take a break. Once they process all the victims they start over. These traps are usually only setup on interstate highways during the daytime. They prefer to do them in an area where the trees in the median will obstruct the view of the oncoming traffic to eliminate the headlights in the on coming lane. CB radios always have this information and it is a better defense that radar detectors. Check the laws in your state with an attorney about these traps since in most states both the officer doing the radar and the officer issuing the ticket may have to appear in court if you plead not guilty. Instant On/Off button There are whole books in print on radar and this manual is intended only to cover the stuff you need to know. The radar gun is an extremely accurate piece of equipment and keep in mind it is only reliable to trained, competent operator. Most cops these days are equipped with an instant ON/OFF button that keeps the unit warmed up but your detector won't detect it until the cop hits the instant ON button and then it is too late, you've been clocked. To counter this simply use a shield such as a big metal truck between you and the cop. If you are using the shield in the left lane you will be able to pick up the radar from the vehicles in front of you that are being clocked. There is very little these days that will set off a false warning of a radar detector on rural interstate highways so when you hear that warning treat it with respect. Speed limits enforced from aircraft Don't be fooled by the signs on the road indicating that aircraft are used to enforce speed limits. What a joke! This was attempted at one time, probably introduced by a cop who was a pilot, and the only time it is used now is for publicity purposes. It was designed to work like the speed trap except speeders were spotted from the air rather that a cop hiding in the bushes, sounds pretty simple. To use this method they need at least a $70,000 airplane, insurance, a pilot, an observer, full fuel at approximately $2.50/gallon, daylight, and clear weather with little or no wind. They still need the full backup of the ground crew just as is needed in the conventional speed trap. You do not have to be a genius to figure out which is a more cost effective way of writing tickets. If you were ever wondering what the white markers that are painted on the shoulders of a highway and placed about every .2 miles were for, this is it. The observer in the aircraft already knows the distance to be traveled so he simply calculates the amount of time it takes your vehicle to travel the fixed distance and the result is your speed in miles per hour. These markers can only be placed in specific areas and can't be used at night or if the ground is covered with snow. I am very interested in hearing from anyone who has ever gotten a ticket from this method. Again, as mentioned above, check the laws in your state about pleading not guilty to these and how many people are required to show up. The ticket writer, the observer, the pilot, the mechanic? Getting Caught Okay so you think you are going to get pulled over, but do not fret, this is the fun part. Most people actually talk the cop into giving them a ticket while they think they are trying to talk them out of it. Below are ideas you may want to follow. You may have to let your pride down but who cares you may be going to get out of a ticket. Once a cop has you on the side of the road he has three options; take you into custody by placing you under arrest and yes you can get up to 15 days in jail for speeding, he can write you a ticket, or he give you a warning. I know that you are thinking that a warning will be fine and a warning can be verbal or in writing. If you do get a ticket your options are limited to pay it or fight it and at this point there is nothing you can do on the side of the road, so save your steam. The pre-emptive wave If you are speeding along and suddenly see a police cruiser that appears to have noticed you and you have made eye contact with him, slow down carefully and give a wave to the cop. Most non-cops slow down and avoid looking at the cop by looking straight ahead saying "Oh, Shit, Oh Shit" and pretending not to see him. An off duty cop would acknowledge the presence of the cop by a gentle wave or a nod indicating that you have just realized you are speeding and will immediately correct the situation. This can prevent you from being pulled over in the first place because you have recognized the cop as an authority and you have heeded him. This also works well in inclement weather since the cop is the one who has to get out of his vehicle. The pre-emptive pullover If you think you just got busted for any traffic infraction and you know you are guilty and about to be stopped the best thing you can have going for you is to pull over immediately! Do not confuse this with the pre-emptive wave as described above. Surrender only when the cop has pulled out and starts to pursue you. Surrendering eliminates the cop having to chase you with sirens screaming and lights afire and the cop will be in a better mood when he talks to you. Obviously the pre-emptive pullover will only work if you intend to plead guilty to the violation because if you intend to plead not guilty you will look pretty stupid by having pulled over before you were forced to. By surrendering you immediately lower the cops natural feeling of threat and increase his ego and this is exactly what an off duty cop would do. Swallow your pride on this one! It pays to know a cop We all know that off duty cops speed and they don't get tickets. Basically, the last thing a cop wants to do is give out a ticket that he feels is going to be asked by someone in the department to fix it which is not easy. This is usually the case with off duty cops and families of cops. The ticket writing cop would rather let the violator go if they think they have stopped an off duty officer or a member of their family rather than later be asked to fix the ticket. Notice I used the word think. It is illegal to impersonate a police officer and you definitely do not want to do that but it is not illegal for a cop to think or wrongly assume you are a cop. As long as you have made no false statements about yourself or haven't displayed a badge indicating you are a cop you should have no problem. The way a cop pulls over For a cop to pull over a vehicle for a traffic violation is a very tense situation to say the least. These days there are crazies riding around with guns under their seats or body parts in the trunk so a cop's defenses are at a high for even those most routine traffic stops. The more you can do to decrease the justified fear a cop has the better your chances of getting out of a ticket. Cops know this and when they get pulled over this is what they do. With the cop following you, look into the rear view mirror and acknowledge you see him by giving a brief wave out the driver's side window and turning on you directional signal. Select an area that will be safe for both you and the officer out of the way of traffic. If the weather is bad quickly look for an overpass to pull over underneath since the cop will surely appreciate this. If you are not on an interstate it is acceptable to search for a good spot since you have already acknowledged to the officer that you know he is behind you. Most cops set up shop in an area predefined with a spot that is available to pull you over up the road. Pull over as far to the right as possible so the cop does not have to fear getting hit by a truck while interviewing you. The cop will now be able to place his car as a protective barrier from traffic whizzing by. Put on your four way flashers as an added bonus and make sure the car is in park. If you have tinted windows and they are electric bring them all down so the cop can see inside you car. Also if you are wearing sunglasses it is best to remove them to establish eye contact. If the cop doesn't remove his don't worry about it. He is the authority. Do not get out of the car! This will immediately send the cop into a fit because he will be held accountable to whatever happens to you by your next of kin. Nothing can be accomplished by you getting out of your car except creating one mad cop which results in one expensive ticket. At night immediately turn on the interior lights to show you have nothing to hide. Sit still! The cop may take some time to get to you while he/she is checking out your plate number. Do not raise suspicion by bouncing around looking for your license and registration, you do not need it at this point and it is only raising the anxiety level of the cop As the cop approaches your vehicle, keep your hands planted firmly on the steering wheel. This makes the cop feel comfortable and less gun shy because he can see your hands and he is less likely to believe you are going to shoot him. There may be two cops and in that case the other one will be looking inside your car usually from the passenger side so just try to ignore him. The cop will usually first ask for your license and registration not say why you are being pulled over. Tell the cop exactly what you are going to be doing! For instance say " My license is in my wallet which I am sitting on, and my registration is in the glove box, I will hand them to you in that order" This can only help you give the impression that you are a cop but not actually saying it. This may sound corny to you but it works! It is crucial to make sure you break eye contact with the officer while reaching for anything because there is evidence that a killer always looks his prey in the eyes before killing him. Cops are well trained in this area and you definitely do not want the cop thinking you are reaching for a gun, it can ruin your whole trip. After getting your papers from the glove box leave it open so you are letting him know you have nothing to hide. If you have a center console in your car you will want to close it after retrieving whatever you need because that is a good place to hide a gun that can be pulled out quickly. All of the above are simple things you should be doing whatever the reason you are being pulled over for. It is a good idea to memorize the list so that when you are caught off guard it will come naturally to you and it will show. The easiest way to remember the list is simply remember that the cop are going to be extremely cautious and maybe even nervous so put yourself into their shoes. Honesty goes a long way At this point the cop feels fairly comfortable with you and you are now in the best position to greatly reduces your chances of getting a ticket of any type. During the interview let the cop feel good by lecturing you. Swallow your pride and don't argue with him just satisfy his ego If you have performed all of the above correctly you will be on your way in no time hopefully with only a warning. The key issue that I will stress is be honest with the cop during the interview. The Interview As mentioned, if you want to keep going without a ticket simply take the lecture, apologize for being inattentive or whatever and by no means get into a shouting match. If you imply to the cop he is a liar or is incompetent you are reducing your odds of going free even if he is a liar or incompetent. If that is the case you can retaliate by making him go to court because he is a liar.. Make sure you are giving the cop respect for him and his profession because it can go a long way in this crazy world we live in today. Do not become upset or start to cry about getting a ticket or start rambling on about how your life is now over. Do not display any of these emotions even if you get a ticket because if you plan on pleading not guilty you do not want him to remember you. Always let the cop dominate the conversation and do not offer any information unless he asks for it. Don't say "What's the problem officer"?, or "Was I speeding"? he will surly let you know when he is ready. Testing the System I'm now convinced After discovering these secrets I was stopped for traffic violations twice, once on purpose just to see if this information was accurate. The first time I tried to beat a red light, I didn't and I was caught. I saw the cop sitting there around the corner and once I spotted him I immediately pulled over before he even had his lights on. After following the above procedure the cop asked me if I knew what I had done and I replied that I tried to beat the light. The cop went to his car and then shortly returned and said "Guess what"? I was puzzled for a moment. He then said "Today is your lucky day, I have no tickets left in the book so you can keep what's left as a souvenir, (handing me an empty book of traffic tickets) since I can't go to the station right now to get a new book". Now think about this, Why is a cop sitting at the side of the road waiting for people to run the red light as they do everyday at this time and place, without a book of traffic tickets? After the cop let me go I went back through the intersection moments later and there he was again. You figure that one out. The second offense was a speeding violation that I needed in order to research this manual. I was comfortably cruising along at 55mph +20 on an interstate highway and I followed the above procedure after being pulled over. The officer asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over and I said "Yes, I was not paying attention and I was grossly over the speed limit". He examined my license and registration right there and said "slow it down and have a nice day". This may not work all the time but I am not about to go out and accumulate speeding tickets just to come up with a percentage rate for you. Most people talk themselves into the ticket by pleading stupidity like "No I don't know why you pulled me over" or "was I really going that fast"? This is usually immediate grounds for a ticket because 95% of the time you do know why you are being pulled over and if you plead ignorance you will get a ticket because the cop knows you are lying or at the very least for not paying attention to driving. Another way of insuring that you get the ticket is arguing with the cop about violation. The side of the road is not the place to do this, that is reserved for the courtroom. If you believe you are wrongly being ticketed just take the ticket and do not give the cop any reason to remember you. By this I mean don't say things like "What's your badge number"? or "I'll see you in court". You should not have to ask the cop for his badge number in the first place because it will be on the ticket when he hands it to you. Cops hand out so many tickets that you definitely do not want him to remember you when the time comes to go to court. If they think you are going to challenge the ticket and make them appear in court you can bet when he gets back into his patrol car he is going to start writing notes about the stop and start preparing the case. If you have a valid excuse I was pulled over by the New York State Police late one evening on a desolate interstate highway. The reason I was pulled over was the officer clocked my speed at an unbelievable 80 mph in my little four cylinder sports car and in addition to that I was not in one lane but I was driving in the center of the two lanes with my car centered on the dashed white line. I got out of that one without a ticket also. Having my interior lights on and the car in park with the hazard lights flashing, acting like a cop would, the officer approached my vehicle with breathalyzer in hand ready to issue me a DWI. This is how the conversation went... Officer: "Where are you coming from this evening"? Me: "Westchester County Airport" Officer: "Where are you headed"? Me: "Home" Officer: "Did you have anything to drink at that airport"? Me: "I had nothing to drink at that airport, officer". Officer: Do you know how fast you were going"? Me: "Probably about eighty miles an hour". Officer: "Why were you driving in two lanes"? Me: "Well, let me explain, I'm a pilot and I was getting checked out in a high performance aircraft and practicing night landings with an instructor. I was having difficulty on approaches so every time we got on the approach the instructor would scream "Eighty Knots, Eighty Knots, Eighty Knots". This was going on all night so I am not surprised my speed on the highway was eighty mph while I was reflecting the flight". Officer: " What were you doing in between the two lanes"? Me: "Oh, airport runways have a white dashed center line and I guess I was forgetting I was in my car. Officer: "Well that's the most original story I've heard in a long time" Me: "Well, I have all my pilot credentials and accessories right here in my bag. Would you like to see"? Officer: (looking in my passenger seat at my bag) "No, just take it easy on the highway and happy landings". Me: "Good night Officer" There is no way I could have made this up between the time he pulled me over and the time he questioned me because it was true. The officer realized that I wasn't conning him so he let me go. If you don't have an excuse Once you are stopped for a violation you still have a chance to get out of the ticket and this is the best place to do it. You should be warned that you must be a half way decent actor/actress to use this next one. This also contradicts what I mentioned earlier about being honest but if you rehearse this one enough you will even believe it. The most effective excuse for speeding is that you have to use a rest room and you need to go before you explode. Once you are on the side of the road roll down your window and wave for the cop to come to your car right way, Do not get out of your car! When the cop arrives at your window act as if you have to relieve yourself right away and ask the officer if we could do one of the following: "Let me run into the woods over there so I can relieve myself" "Is there a rest stop up the road that you can follow me to and write the ticket there so I can relieve myself"? Either approach puts the cop into a very difficult situation because he can't prove that you don't have to relieve yourself and it is going to be trouble so he may just let you leave telling you to slow down. This can also be used by another passenger in the vehicle if you are not up to it and the best person to have do it is a female, for obvious reasons. This excuse will not work if you have just passed up an opportunity to stop a few miles back and did not take advantage of it. If the officer lets you go make sure you do stop at the next area and take a 5 minute rest. Remember that you should have an excuse already made up in advance of getting pulled over so it is more believable. PBA Decals If you are thinking about laying out some cash to buy a "We support the PBA" or similar organizations decal save your money. Cops take these decals very lightly since most people believe that they will work in their favor. You will have no way of knowing if the cop that is standing next to your car is happy with their union or not. If he is not happy you are in trouble for reminding him of it, and if he is happy you are just another person who thinks he can buy his way out of a ticket. It also displays that you do not have the political connections to get a ticket fixed. Supporting the PBA is a very good and useful idea but one has to wonder how many contributions they would receive if they did not give out decals and cards to thank you for your support. Going to Court Once you have a ticket I you are planning on pleading guilty to the charge you can stop reading here because the rest of this manual will not help you at this point. However. if you plan on pleading not guilty and are representing yourself keep reading. The key to representing yourself is PREPARATION and plenty of it. You do not want to plead guilty and then walk into the court room hoping that the officer doesn't show up. They do show up like 80% of the time so you will need a plan. One idea that I love to share is keep one of those small inexpensive disposable cameras in your car at all times. They are invaluable for parking tickets, accidents, and UFO's and they only cost about $6.00. If you think you have a case the more prepared you are with things like photos, witnesses, and documents, the better your chances of winning. V&T Law The judge will be impressed with your knowledge of the law when you are able to recite the section that you are charged with violating from memory. The best investment you can make if you plan on fighting your own tickets is to go down to the Department of Motor Vehicles or whatever it is called in your state and buy the Vehicles and Traffic Law handbook that is available to the public. The one in New York State is 668 pages and cost a whopping $1.00. I am not referring to the cute little book that they give when you want to learn how to drive either. I bet 98% of the entire population is driving around having never heard of this book and thus, not knowing the traffic laws. Once you have the book in hand refer to your ticket and look for the section that you are being charged with violating. It is very common to be charged with the wrong but similar offense due to the cop's ignorance and you will be able to go free if that is the case. If the charge is accurate you will surely impress the judge with your interest and the respect for the law and may win him over just on that fact alone. If you plan on going to court to fight your own tickets it is very helpful to go to some court sessions ahead of time to get an idea of what works and what doesn't. Remember, preparation is everything! Depositions Depositions can go two ways. I once had a speeding ticket reduced to failure to obey traffic control device simply because I did not request a deposition. When I talked to the officer prior to court I simply told him I could not afford another speeding ticket or I would lose my license. He asked the judge for a reduced charge because I did him a favor and did not burden him or waste his time by making him write a detailed deposition of the violation. On the other hand, a deposition is another opportunity for the officer to make a mistake like dates, times, etc. The general rule is if your case is not open and shut in your favor request the deposition when pleading not guilty and you may at a later date decide to hire an attorney and he/she will need it. Other people were speeding too I've heard this defense a lot and the judge usually always lets the ticket stand. The reason is that you were speeding and you got caught and the others didn't. A cop can only write one ticket at a time so that does not exclude you from speeding. Some people really want to get nasty and hire an attorney and claim discrimination of some sort but you may still have to pay the ticket. Credibility The most import asset next to preparation you can have without an attorney is credibility. If the judge thinks you are lying you are not getting out of anything. If the judge feels you are credible they will usually dismiss the ticket. They best way to be credible short of telling to truth is rehearse your case in front of friends or family members to get it straight. When it is your word against a cop's word there is no room for error. They will usually side with the cop unless you can present a well-planned defense. Credits Egan, James M. NYSP A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets/Avon Books, October 1991/How to Beat A Speeding Ticket Active Home Video 1986/Boardroom Classics The Book of Secrets/1994 Boardroom Reports Inc./Haas. Carol Your Driving and the Law/Horizon Publishing & Distributors Inc. 1991/Bello, Phil, How to Win in Traffic Court/Major Market Books, 1990 |
Post by: mjar81 on September 29, 2003, 07:47:00 PM
Post by: tupac on September 29, 2003, 08:15:00 PM
| QUOTE (sk8ermike6789 @ Sep 30 2003, 03:42 AM) |
| pay the fine, but pay over by like 8 dollars, so if the ticket was 100 dollars pay 108 dollars, then youll get a refund check, burn that up, and since you did the transaction was never complete and therefore by the law, your insurance will not even see the violation... that is the best way to go |
hey, i've heard that that works too, but i dont know anyone that did it. Are u positive this works or know somebody that this worked for, or is it just another thing ur friends friend tried
.......
Post by: Zero on September 29, 2003, 08:46:00 PM
| QUOTE (tupac @ Sep 30 2003, 04:15 AM) |
| hey, i've heard that that works too, but i dont know anyone that did it. Are u positive this works or know somebody that this worked for, or is it just another thing ur friends friend tried ....... |
It wont work.
Post by: lookformeb on September 29, 2003, 09:18:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| A recent study found that between 88 percent and 96 percent of motorists exceed the 55 mph posted speed limit on interstate highways in the states that still have it. |
how old is that shit? like 10 years at least? speed limits havn't been that low on the interstates in at least 10 years for most states.
tupac, what state you in?
Post by: tupac on September 29, 2003, 09:40:00 PM
| QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 30 2003, 04:46 AM) | ||
It wont work. |
do u have any reason to think it won't work or do u just assume it won't work?
Post by: Zero on September 29, 2003, 10:20:00 PM
| QUOTE (tupac @ Sep 30 2003, 05:40 AM) |
| do u have any reason to think it won't work or do u just assume it won't work? |
Even if you get a refund back they still process the ticket as being payed.
Post by: thomes08 on September 29, 2003, 10:41:00 PM
good luck
thomes08
Post by: thomes08 on September 29, 2003, 10:48:00 PM
good luck
thomes08
edit : sorry about the double post it said it was too busy to take my request the first time
Post by: tupac on September 30, 2003, 03:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (lookformeb @ Sep 30 2003, 05:18 AM) | ||
how old is that shit? like 10 years at least? speed limits havn't been that low on the interstates in at least 10 years for most states. tupac, what state you in? |
ohio
Post by: Hammy on September 30, 2003, 03:31:00 AM
Post by: BenJeremy on September 30, 2003, 04:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (tupac @ Sep 30 2003, 07:11 AM) | ||||
ohio |
Ohio?
You are screwed. The troopers there, like Michigan, are paid overtime to handle court cases, and traffic fines are a major part of revenues.
Just be thankful New Rome is no longer a legal speed trap. They would have taken you to the cleaners.
Post by: Gonefission on September 30, 2003, 05:05:00 AM
Just the other day I was doing my usual 60 in the 45mph and a cop was shooting radar and I thought I was boned for sure. He instead pulled out and went after a guy in the other lane. I think I am the luckiest person when it comes to tickets.
I say just pay the ticket, eventually everyone gets one.
Post by: XB0X_Mod on September 30, 2003, 05:25:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Officer: "Where are you coming from this evening"? Me: "Westchester County Airport" Officer: "Where are you headed"? Me: "Home" Officer: "Did you have anything to drink at that airport"? Me: "I had nothing to drink at that airport, officer". Officer: Do you know how fast you were going"? Me: "Probably about eighty miles an hour". Officer: "Why were you driving in two lanes"? Me: "Well, let me explain, I'm a pilot and I was getting checked out in a high performance aircraft and practicing night landings with an instructor. I was having difficulty on approaches so every time we got on the approach the instructor would scream "Eighty Knots, Eighty Knots, Eighty Knots". This was going on all night so I am not surprised my speed on the highway was eighty mph while I was reflecting the flight". Officer: " What were you doing in between the two lanes"? Me: "Oh, airport runways have a white dashed center line and I guess I was forgetting I was in my car. Officer: "Well that's the most original story I've heard in a long time" Me: "Well, I have all my pilot credentials and accessories right here in my bag. Would you like to see"? Officer: (looking in my passenger seat at my bag) "No, just take it easy on the highway and happy landings". Me: "Good night Officer" |
LMFAO
Anyway , you should go in there blazing gunz n SHIT! Your 2Pac man!
Post by: Wong Hung Lo on September 30, 2003, 06:29:00 AM
I remember years ago thay had some thing but I can't remember the name. It was energy infraction something I think. I plead to that and they still made their money and I didn't have any points.
Post by: tupac on September 30, 2003, 09:54:00 AM
Post by: lookformeb on September 30, 2003, 12:11:00 PM
Post by: NME on September 30, 2003, 02:47:00 PM
i heard a good way to get off with out a ticket but u have to say the stuff there and then.
You get pulled over for speeding the cop comes to your door and asked to see ur licence and car reg details, you tell him u dont have them and he will be like "why not" then u say "I dont own this car i just stole it from the guy I just killed he's in the boot a lil chopped up" and the cop will be a lil freacked out and will call for backup
So they have you handcuffed and the backup is there and then they ask to look in your boot and you say "yeah sure but I dont know why I have nuffin to hide" and he looks and the cops sees.......... notthing so he will bring the first cop aside and ask him what he is talking about and the first cop will be swearing left right and centre, so then the second cop will come over to you and be like "so do you own this car" and you say yes i have the car reg details in the glove box" and the cop will see them and be happy with that then he will say "How come you said you have a body in ur boot?" and you reply with "I dont know what your on about"
he will be a lil confused and say something like "that cop said so" and you reply with "oh did he now i bet he said i was speeding as well"
Post by: tupac on September 30, 2003, 05:24:00 PM
| QUOTE (lookformeb @ Sep 30 2003, 08:11 PM) |
| here, i did it in the courtroom. just went in there and he asks what you plea. i said guilty, and he said he'd remove it as long as i agreed to pay court costs. 112 in court costs and the ticket was for 115...lol. at least it not on my driving record. as for you who think paying 8 dollars more is going to prevent a ticket from being reported to the insurance agencies... you're wrong. very wrong... so wrong, it's stupid. |
ok, but did u have to plead guilty BEFORE he offered a plea bargain? that doesnt make much sense...i dont wanna plead guilty and have the prosecutor say fuck u when i ask for a plea bargain. i wanna go in there and ask for a plea bargain, and if he doesnt accept it plead not guilty.......
and do any of u know what the fine is for 17 mph over?
edit: ok one otehr thing...does the court usually have a prosecutor in there? i just talked to my dad and he says there wasnt any prosecutor to plea bargain with when he got a ticket....he was just asked what he plead, and if niot guilty go to another court, and if guilty he gets ticket fines and points without any chance of plea bargaining.......
Post by: Hoppy on September 30, 2003, 06:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (tupac @ Sep 30 2003, 09:24 PM) |
| edit: ok one otehr thing...does the court usually have a prosecutor in there? i just talked to my dad and he says there wasnt any prosecutor to plea bargain with when he got a ticket....he was just asked what he plead, and if niot guilty go to another court, and if guilty he gets ticket fines and points without any chance of plea bargaining....... |
It's just traffic court. They don't have a prosecutor.
Post by: Gonefission on September 30, 2003, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: tupac on September 30, 2003, 07:27:00 PM
| QUOTE (Hoppy @ Oct 1 2003, 02:32 AM) | ||
It's just traffic court. They don't have a prosecutor. |
so what were these people talking about plea bargaining? who do u plea bargain with?
Post by: poiygon on September 30, 2003, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: tupac on September 30, 2003, 08:40:00 PM
| QUOTE (poiygon @ Oct 1 2003, 04:34 AM) |
| If it's your first moving violation this year, you can go to traffic school to get the fine reduced and no points taken from your license. Thing that sucks is the reduction is only a little more than what traffic school will cost you. Good thing is your insurance won't go up. |
ok, but how do i do thi? they're saying its just a judge....do i make the deal with him after i already admit guilt or what? can anyone whose been throught his explain plz.........
Post by: poiygon on September 30, 2003, 08:57:00 PM
Post by: Wong Hung Lo on October 01, 2003, 02:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (CamJ256 @ Oct 1 2003, 12:44 AM) |
| disclaimer: im to lazy to read through everyones posts but if this hasnt been said heres my advice my advice: If your worried bout insurance going up u can opt to pay double the fine and it will be cleared from your record. story time: A friend of mine had a highly modified accord and was going 140 on the highway late at night because he was going to be late for his curfue and a biker cop was sitting on the side and he flew past. The cop got him in a sec and bam 800 ticket. lol. so he had to pay double for the fine to be cleard and sell his car to help pay for it. |
In Michigan going that fast is a not a civil infraction. It's just as bad as drunk driving and they will throw your ass in jail. It's wreckless driving. It's either a felony or a misdomeaner. I remember a cop telling me anything over 120 is a felony.
Tupac.
I don't know how it is in your state but in Michigan we go before a magistrate who is a judge that deals with just traffic stuff. Differant countys have their own ways of dealing with you. After calling the phone number on the ticket I set up a day to contest my ticket. Then on that day I went before the magistrate in their chambers. Then you can fight it and say you didn't do it or for example say like I did that the big tires I put on my Blazer threw off my speedometer. They could give you a deal where they say to pay a defective equipment ticket which has no points. Give you a warning and if you don't get a ticket for a year the ticket will be dropped. Or you could have the option to plea to slower speed like 5 over. The odds are if you haven't had alot of tickets then you will get off easy. But if you are a young kid with lots of points on your license. They will stick it to you up the ass and send you to traffic school, restrict or revoke your license. After that you couldn't afford insurance.
The courts nowadays are so perverted away from what they are supposed to be. It's now a money making business. In criminal court they would rather fine you and put you on probation to make money. The same goes for traffic court. All they care is that they can make a buck. They don't care if it's for doing your 75 in a 55 zone or for what you can get it plead down to. As long as they can make the the same amount of money or more from the original fine on the ticket. They will be happy.
Post by: tupac on October 01, 2003, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: kard63 on October 01, 2003, 10:31:00 PM
Post by: TheOtherBob on October 02, 2003, 01:20:00 PM
| QUOTE (Gonefission @ Oct 1 2003, 03:57 AM) |
| If a cop is behind you or in an on comming lane can he/she tell how fast you are going, or do they have to be stopped to get your speed? |
No they can be moving. My father in-law is on the force in CO. He was telling me how some of their state trooper radars can clock 4 cars at once. One in front and behind. Plus it can do the oncoming car AND the one that just went the other way.
-to the original poster-
You might look into whether it is a city fine or not. Some cities (one here in MN does it) now just make you pay the fine directly to the city and it doesn't get reported. Can't remember what they call it..... but I saw it on the news one day........
But then again.... you were speeding....
Good luck!
Post by: Gonefission on October 02, 2003, 04:05:00 PM
Post by: explicitlyrics100 on October 02, 2003, 05:38:00 PM
| QUOTE (Xeero @ Sep 30 2003, 03:28 AM) |
| I'm in Massachusetts, and I've beat 2 out of my 3 tickets with sheer bullshitting (the 3rd I just paid because I didn't feel like going to court). I've heard you can do the following: Compose a form requesting the paperwork documenting the last time that radar gun was calibrated and validated. Copy it 10 times or so. Send all via certified mail with return receipt. If any slip through the cracks or are misplaced, you go into court with a report from the USPS saying you were denied the information. I don't know if it's subject to state regulations, but I've been told the judge has to throw it out if you were denied that information. |
lol surely the cost of all that recorded post is more than the speeding ticket itself!??!
Post by: mempHis on October 02, 2003, 06:29:00 PM
drive into a rough estate, nail it up backstreets.
or if you have a shitty car
head for the roads with speed bumpas and try to get your car to take off, police wont go fast down roads with speed bumps
as for estates good when they don't know their way around..
Post by: Inexistence on October 05, 2003, 10:27:00 AM
Post by: DJ Gecko on October 06, 2003, 12:57:00 PM
| QUOTE (dmack_901 @ Sep 29 2003, 10:12 PM) | ||
I does work. My dad has done that twice and the cops usually just don't feel like showing up. |
This definitely works in NY. I once got a ticket for 65 in a 55. I kept pushing my court date off for a year and a half so that I wouldn't have to enter a plea. After that I had to attend a hearing before the judge so that he could admonish me for being such a sneaky bastard and to force my plea... not-guilty.
He also ordered that I pay a rather large fine up front (essentially my bail) to be returned or amended upon judgement. By the time my final court date rolled around, we were informed by the court clerk that nobody could locate the trooper so he must have been transferred / fired / quit / whatever. The judge was obviously annoyed but there was nothing he could do. With no prosecution present, there was no case. Ticket dismissed, money returned.After that much time, it's unlikely that the trooper will show. Push it off as long as you can get away with.
Your best defense of course is to not get ticketed in the first place. Keep your eyes open, don't be stupid, and be polite and helpful to the cop if you do get pulled over. I've only been pulled over twice (ticketed once) and fled / escaped twice in 15 years of driving. That one time I got ticketed, it was a pissed off cop and no amount of smooth-talking would work on him. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Post by: Gonefission on October 06, 2003, 01:09:00 PM
Post by: DJ Gecko on October 06, 2003, 01:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (Gonefission @ Oct 6 2003, 05:09 PM) |
| I knew my no ticket streak wouldn't last forever, I got my first ticket today. I was clocked doing 90 in a 70, thats a pretty hefty fine. $150 to be exact. I think I'll just pay it less hassle that way. You can plead guilty or no contest. There isn't a difference is there? |
Guilty means you admit it. No contest says that you don't admit to any wrongdoing but that you cannot provide an effective defense for yourself so you throw yourself at the mercy of the court and hope for leniency. Essentially they mean the same thing in traffic court though because the whole point is to make money from fines, not to let peeps off because they feel like being nice that day. There is no justice in traffic court, so you have to massage the system to work for you.