Post by: silverrush540 on August 16, 2005, 11:44:00 PM
Post by: Crowley on August 17, 2005, 12:42:00 AM
Post by: Code-Runner on August 17, 2005, 12:50:00 AM
Post by: silverrush540 on August 18, 2005, 02:31:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 18, 2005, 03:29:00 AM
check where you soldered to amke sure that you didnt bridge any pins.
if you can pick up a real cheap modchip (alladin and duox2 chipas are cheap as chips these days), you could try installing that and seeing if that fixes it.
Post by: silverrush540 on August 19, 2005, 08:07:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Aug 18 2005, 05:04 AM)
well this problem is almost allways due to a broken or bridged trace in the lpc bus.
check where you soldered to amke sure that you didnt bridge any pins.
if you can pick up a real cheap modchip (alladin and duox2 chipas are cheap as chips these days), you could try installing that and seeing if that fixes it.
check where you soldered to amke sure that you didnt bridge any pins.
if you can pick up a real cheap modchip (alladin and duox2 chipas are cheap as chips these days), you could try installing that and seeing if that fixes it.
If I put either of these modchips in can I still play live?
Post by: revengeismyfury on August 19, 2005, 11:28:00 AM
check your xbox version if its a 1.0/1.1. If your the original owner of this xbox or sure anyone else have not attempted to mod it. Try the 3 wire dual tsop trick. Then see if your xbox will load every time when a19 is on Ground. Youll understand once you read one of those tuts.
Do not use a19 on vcc atleast try to avoid that its bad for the mcpx chip.
Since you don't need to flash the motherboard dont worry about jumping any points.
Heres a tutorial that should help you out. Just solder a wire to a19 and a wire to ground. Tie both wires together. Ignore everything else on this tutorial. See if that works.
Anyways thats what I would do with that xbox.
http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/tsop-live-1mb.php
Oh yeah and if you try putting in a modchip which is much harder than I'm recommending you wolnt beable to play on live with it. Well, you might beable to flash the retail bios to it dont know if anyone has ever tried that though????
I'm not saying my method will work it might not.
"Dont use vcc 3.3V"
This post has been edited by revengeismyfury: Aug 19 2005, 06:30 PM
Post by: silverrush540 on August 19, 2005, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 20, 2005, 03:12:00 AM
QUOTE(revengeismyfury @ Aug 20 2005, 04:03 AM)
Oh yeah and if you try putting in a modchip which is much harder than I'm recommending you wolnt beable to play on live with it. Well, you might beable to flash the retail bios to it dont know if anyone has ever tried that though????
well as i am aware, almost any mod chip that you buy can be installed do that it only tuens on when you turn teh xbox on a certain way. and most bioses block live so that even if you forget the chip is on, you wont get banned.
my chip (an alladin - cheap and easy to install) turns on if you start the xbox by holdign in teh power button for 2 seconds. any otehr way (quick flick of power button, eject button), will start it up with the chip disabled
Post by: silverrush540 on August 20, 2005, 12:31:00 PM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Aug 20 2005, 04:47 AM)
well as i am aware, almost any mod chip that you buy can be installed do that it only tuens on when you turn teh xbox on a certain way. and most bioses block live so that even if you forget the chip is on, you wont get banned.
my chip (an alladin - cheap and easy to install) turns on if you start the xbox by holdign in teh power button for 2 seconds. any otehr way (quick flick of power button, eject button), will start it up with the chip disabled
my chip (an alladin - cheap and easy to install) turns on if you start the xbox by holdign in teh power button for 2 seconds. any otehr way (quick flick of power button, eject button), will start it up with the chip disabled
What are the differences between mod chips? If I had the aladdin which you say is cheap and easy to install will I have all the features of say an xecutor? I don't really understand the difference...are you still able to copy games to the harddrive and play movies and have the emulators for older systems on there with a crappy mod chip?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 20, 2005, 04:53:00 PM
QUOTE(silverrush540 @ Aug 21 2005, 05:06 AM)
What are the differences between mod chips? If I had the aladdin which you say is cheap and easy to install will I have all the features of say an xecutor? I don't really understand the difference...are you still able to copy games to the harddrive and play movies and have the emulators for older systems on there with a crappy mod chip?
ok the main difference you would get to an executer 3 is the advanced features. the e3 has an 'os' on the chip, but that isnt really needed.
as i said, the chip itself doesnt make a shit load of difference, its the bios that is located on it that does.
Post by: pcton on August 28, 2005, 02:40:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 28, 2005, 06:16:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Aug 28 2005, 07:15 PM)
I think there is some broken resistor or something.
well do you have a multi-meter. if you check the resistance of the resistors on teh mobo that migth help.
but also check very throughly for any broken traces, bridged traces, or dry joints
Post by: PimpleX on August 28, 2005, 12:41:00 PM
I just dug out the v1.0 and hey presto it worked like a charm for an hour or so, enough time to TSOP split and flash and unlock the hard disk that was paired with it, it then froze (during FTP) and that was that, back to 3 boots and red and orange.
My hunch is it is to do with the video somewhere, I've tried the RF lead method which made it boot to a blank screen but no FRAO. I tried the LPC trace bypass (even though my trace was fine) and that appeared to work on the v1.1 mobo for an hour or so before that was red and orange again.
I think it's a bad trace or resistor or cap on the video circuit, or a fault in the video / TV chip itself, but actually finding where and when is another matter. I've traced alot of the video circuit back looking for dead areas and found none.
If you ground D0 it will flash read and green (FRAG), so someone with more knowledge should be able to figure out WHY it goes form FRAO to FRAG on doing that and hopefully point at a likely source of the problem (which will be many and varied in my opinion so don't expect a one size fits all solution)
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 29, 2005, 04:09:00 AM
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Aug 29 2005, 05:16 AM)
worked like a charm for an hour or so
well just before it stopped workign right, did you do anything? if not, i will bet my life on the fact it is an overheating component
Post by: PimpleX on August 29, 2005, 07:03:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Aug 29 2005, 11:44 AM)
well just before it stopped workign right, did you do anything? if not, i will bet my life on the fact it is an overheating component
No, it was FTPing happily and then froze up. I've looked into the heat issue, but if it does FRAO from cold (stone cold overnight non useage cold uplugged from the mains cold, i mean COLD COLD COLD) then it aint a heat issue me thinks is it???!!?.
Which leads us back to....? Bad trace, bad IC, bad resistor, bad cap etc.
My version 1.0 is today now FRAGing NOT FRAOing with D0 NOT grounded for some totally mad reason, all the LPC is good (always has been).
My V1.1 was FRAO in a sealed unmolested XBOX when I got it, it was "cured" by the LPC trace bypass method for an hour or so (which it didn't actually NEEED as the trace in question was GOOD so it's either coincidence or it pushed some dodgy component / IC back within limits for a while), .... and then it was back to FRAO, which it is now permanently stuck in, and no amount of effort or stealth tactics have made any difference to it since, so whatever WAS failing, obviously now has.
So we are still no nearer to finding a path of enlightenment on these are we?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: PimpleX on August 29, 2005, 07:20:00 AM
EDIT: Also,..... mentioned above as a suggestion, a19 to ground makes no difference, as I had bank switch on my TSOP and flashed it while it was working (same on both the boards when they decided to work long enough) and switching banks made no difference to it FRAOing or not. Switch A19 to ground was with the switch ON.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 29, 2005, 07:34:00 AM
there are quite a fewq thraeds around that have the main jist of this:
'ftping to my xbox.....now its dead'
its more then a coicidence.
have a search around for the otehr threads, and see what other people have posted, see if you get any ideas
Post by: PimpleX on August 29, 2005, 12:52:00 PM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Aug 29 2005, 03:09 PM)
well im starting to see a pattern here...
there are quite a fewq thraeds around that have the main jist of this:
'ftping to my xbox.....now its dead'
its more then a coicidence.
have a search around for the otehr threads, and see what other people have posted, see if you get any ideas
there are quite a fewq thraeds around that have the main jist of this:
'ftping to my xbox.....now its dead'
its more then a coicidence.
have a search around for the otehr threads, and see what other people have posted, see if you get any ideas
Na, nothing to do with it m8. It freezes when IT feels like it, at the flubber, after an hour, after 10 minutes, in a game, on the dashboard, ...anywhere.
Once it does that, it will FRAO again and again and again. One of my boards (the v1.1) would boot again if i left it for a period of time (an hour or so to begin with and then overnight after a bit)) and then start doing the FRAO again after freezing up. Suggesting a leaky cap maybe?
Well I couldn't find one!!! That doesn't mean there wasn't one there, but I couldn't find one at any rate. Well now it NEVER boots and has gone from permanant FRAO to permanent FRAG, so whatever was dying has now died I'd say.
Some people seem to get some life using the eject button, i saw some of that on the v1.0 but not on the v1.1 at all.
It would help a great deal if you've (or anyone replying) has had a red - orange mobo at some point
LOL.Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: PimpleX on August 29, 2005, 01:19:00 PM
I read this before and can't remember what I did about it at the time LOL, so I'll try again. Seems to be a pin 5 issue worth looking into. I'll check mine and see what i can work out.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: PimpleX on August 29, 2005, 02:53:00 PM
My LPC readings on a v1.0 and a v1.1 both FRAO:
I traced the err traces back and fore but they disppear into the little IC here which links the two small vias on the LPC:
The other end comes out in the MCPX.
So I checked all the caps and the mosfetts and they were similar to a working v1.0 board.
I then checked around the MCPX on the v1.1 and found NO VOLTAGE on one section. I compared this with the v1.0 FRAO (which has a cap there, the v1.1 does not) and found it was exactly the same. NO VOLTAGE, 0.0V.
I then tested the same points on a working v1.0 and it is 3.3V all over that area.
So there's the next step of the problem. I'll see if I can find where the traces in this area go to tomorrow, but I have posted this for now as I've just found and confirmed it on two FRAO boards. Here's the area on a v1.0:
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 30, 2005, 03:49:00 AM
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Aug 30 2005, 08:04 AM)
I then checked around the MCPX on the v1.1 and found NO VOLTAGE on one section. I compared this with the v1.0 FRAO (which has a cap there, the v1.1 does not) and found it was exactly the same. NO VOLTAGE, 0.0V.
I then tested the same points on a working v1.0 and it is 3.3V all over that area.
I then tested the same points on a working v1.0 and it is 3.3V all over that area.
well looks like you are very close to finding the problem.
you can use the working mobo to try and find the component(s) that are causing this problem.
i think you are very capable of finding the componets that are responsible
Post by: PimpleX on August 30, 2005, 10:28:00 AM
What does this IC do? I took readings off it on my v1.0 FRAO and a normal v1.0 and they are different:
(IMG:http://www.meltdown.fsnet.co.uk/pics/XBOX/lpcicfrao.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.meltdown.fsnet.co.uk/pics/XBOX/lpcicnormal.jpg)
I don't know enough to find what I'm looking for, so it needs more able techs to solve it.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on August 31, 2005, 03:34:00 AM
Post by: PimpleX on August 31, 2005, 11:44:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Aug 31 2005, 11:09 AM)
have you got a fully working board that you can take the same measurements off?
Bottom pic above is v1.0 normal working mobo.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 01, 2005, 02:22:00 AM
check with the non-working board at the same time, following the trace.
with a bit of luck, you will be able to find a component that has shat itself and that should fix it.
Post by: Robc66 on September 02, 2005, 08:10:00 AM
Ive checked all of my tracks and they all seem to be fine and i have checked to see if i have spilt any solder anywhere, but i cant not find any at all. The thing is though before all this started happening i tried to install the Xecuter 3 CE chip to my xbox and it was working fine....it came up with the flash bios screen, so i flashed the bios but after i flashed the bios it started turning itself off and on like it is now.....so i check the chip to make sure that all of the solder point were ok and decided to add a bit more solder, after i had doen that the xbox seemed to be stuck in that FRAO position, even if i remove the chip completely. I would really accreciate some help on this because i am REALLY stuck with it 
Thanks.
Post by: Eisen4 on September 02, 2005, 09:37:00 AM
Since then, I've installed some new bios and even tried loading up XBMC. The one thing holding me back though is that my power button (lead on the board, whatever) is stuck on. Also, my eject button doesn't work. Everytime I boot it goes straight into the bios config instead of trying to load any dashboard I install. My eject button also doesn't work anymore. The only way I can get the eject button to work is to take the mod chip out, unplug the power/eject from the X3 and put it back into its original spot on the motherboard. However, when I do that the eject button will work but the power button still doesn't.
What should I do to fix it?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 02, 2005, 06:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Eisen4 @ Sep 3 2005, 02:12 AM)
What should I do to fix it?
check the board (the front pannel one) to see if any wires have come off. is posible that one has broken
Post by: Eisen4 on September 02, 2005, 10:37:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 02, 2005, 11:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Eisen4 @ Sep 3 2005, 03:12 PM)
I really don't know how to get to that panel. Any time I've undone the clips the top part of that panel's black cover on it seems like its attached somewhere on the bottom that i can't undo. Do I have to do anything special to completely dismantle xbox (beyond taking out the hard drive/dvd/power) ?
sick a spoon (hanel end) between the front of the case and the side. just pop if off.
have a look in the tut's forum, theres a vid there somewhere.
Post by: Eisen4 on September 03, 2005, 12:29:00 PM
I actually got the dvd to eject by using the XBMC eject function. Only one problem. I was stupid enough to put a game in to see if it would play (it did) and now everytime it started up it went straight to the game. After dismantling again and getting the game out manually my xbox started FRAG'ing (reboot twice, FRAG on 3rd) So even though my comments weren't originally about this forum's topic, sadly, now they are.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 04, 2005, 06:12:00 AM
QUOTE(Eisen4 @ Sep 4 2005, 05:04 AM)
after dismantling again and getting the game out manually my xbox started FRAG'ing (reboot twice, FRAG on 3rd) So even though my comments weren't originally about this forum's topic, sadly, now they are.
so is it doing that now? did it only do it after you got the dvd out manually?
Post by: pcton on September 04, 2005, 06:38:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 04, 2005, 06:46:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Sep 4 2005, 11:13 PM)
My 1.0 works also fine after I keep it a hour in freezer. I thing it's some weak capacitor or some component that is sensitive to cold temperatures.
well if you have to cool it down, then yes, i would bet it is a capacitor. can you see any of them on the mobo that look sus?
Post by: pcton on September 04, 2005, 06:49:00 AM
btw, here's good parallel.
(IMG:http://www32.brinkster.com/gohan127/1_0_mobo2.jpg)
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 04, 2005, 07:21:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Sep 4 2005, 11:24 PM)
btw, here's good parallel.
pic doesnt work...
well caps dont have to look sus to be...
im guessing you can check them with a multi-meter?
Post by: pcton on September 04, 2005, 07:50:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Sep 4 2005, 02:56 PM)
well caps dont have to look sus to be...
im guessing you can check them with a multi-meter?
im guessing you can check them with a multi-meter?
I don't know what those values should be, cause some caps are on circuit with other stuff. I don't have another 1.0 mobo right now.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 05, 2005, 03:30:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Sep 5 2005, 12:25 AM)
I don't know what those values should be, cause some caps are on circuit with other stuff.
what do you mean?
the values for the caps are written on the sides
there will be a voltage and a capacitance value. capacitance will be measure in uF (maicro farads).
Post by: pcton on September 05, 2005, 04:34:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Sep 5 2005, 11:05 AM)
what do you mean?
the values for the caps are written on the sides
there will be a voltage and a capacitance value. capacitance will be measure in uF (maicro farads).
the values for the caps are written on the sides
there will be a voltage and a capacitance value. capacitance will be measure in uF (maicro farads).
There's no chance to get rights values from the board and I'm not gonna remove those caps.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 05, 2005, 07:20:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Sep 5 2005, 09:09 PM)
There's no chance to get rights values from the board and I'm not gonna remove those caps.
fair enough
Post by: pcton on September 06, 2005, 02:33:00 PM
PIC!!
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 07, 2005, 03:48:00 AM
the reason the working cap's resitsance changes is becase of its capacitance
can you show me which cap you think was broken off? if you replace it, it needs to be of the same value (in uF).
Post by: pcton on September 07, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Sep 7 2005, 11:23 AM)
can you show me which cap you think was broken off? if you replace it, it needs to be of the same value (in uF).
All those 5 where OK..
This post has been edited by pcton: Sep 7 2005, 08:14 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 08, 2005, 01:02:00 AM
QUOTE(pcton @ Sep 8 2005, 05:48 AM)
All those 5 where OK..
so have you narrowed the problem?
Post by: AfterTheInsanity on September 08, 2005, 05:08:00 AM
Do this
Then run a wire from the back D0 to the front D0
And if you have emptied out your LPC holes, fill them.
Thats exactly what I did step by step and now mine boots up fine.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 09, 2005, 02:52:00 AM
QUOTE(AfterTheInsanity @ Sep 8 2005, 10:19 PM)
Thats exactly what I did step by step and now mine boots up fine.
well ill have to remember this thread then
Post by: PimpleX on September 09, 2005, 03:48:00 AM
QUOTE(AfterTheInsanity @ Sep 8 2005, 01:19 PM)
I just had this problem with mine, but I actually got it working. Give this a shot for yours:
Do this
Then run a wire from the back D0 to the front D0
And if you have emptied out your LPC holes, fill them.
Thats exactly what I did step by step and now mine boots up fine.
Do this
Then run a wire from the back D0 to the front D0
And if you have emptied out your LPC holes, fill them.
Thats exactly what I did step by step and now mine boots up fine.
To be blunt there is absolutlely no reason for that to work at all sorry. And doing them one after the other in some voodoo fix is even more bizarre.
The red-orange "fix" is only IF the small trace you are bypassing is broken. (test with multimeter)
The D0 to D0 will do exactly NOTHING unless the D0 to D0 link trace is broken. (test with multimeter)
Filling the LPC holes may fix a bad LPC point, (again test with multimeter to see if it actually is a problem), plus won't help on v1.0 which seem to make up a fair proportion of FRAO boards as they already have the LPC holes filled anyway.
I'm telling you the two most likely candidates for this FRAO problem are looking increasingly likely to be an IC that is fritzed, or else the RAM has gone bad.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: AfterTheInsanity on September 09, 2005, 06:12:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 09, 2005, 07:00:00 AM
QUOTE(AfterTheInsanity @ Sep 9 2005, 10:47 PM)
Hey, Im just saying that this is what I did and now it boots up, so maybe it will work for someone else.
well what your problem was may be different to what others have.
Post by: AfterTheInsanity on September 09, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 09, 2005, 05:16:00 PM
QUOTE(AfterTheInsanity @ Sep 10 2005, 07:51 AM)
Maybe it is. But maybe it isnt. Its better to try something and it end up working then to not try it at all, and have a broken motherboard, is it not?
yes, that is very true. were just saying that the reason why yours went to the shits doesnt look like the reason why some other peoples did.
Post by: fr_dr on September 23, 2005, 05:44:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 23, 2005, 07:10:00 AM
Post by: fahrenheit on September 23, 2005, 07:26:00 AM
I unmodded one of my other consoles and chipped it with an Akira 2 cheapmod. Powering on normally causes FRAO, but hitting eject boots both BIOS's on the modchips banks. I put evox on the drive and it seems to operate fine from cold booting, though from what PimpleX has said, I'll have to run it for longer.
Interestingly I had one successful cold boot today a while after the chip had been installed (the chip was off and the MS dash loaded without FRAO). So I'm wondering if this is an intermittant hardware fault? That was one boot out of at least thirty FRAO's in the last two days.
At this point I would like to completely re-flash my TSOP with a retail v1.0 BIOS, but am a TSOP noob, so need to research more about it. The goal is to get this rare console back into an unmodded state. But at least its not a total write-off.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 23, 2005, 08:11:00 AM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 24 2005, 12:01 AM)
So I'm wondering if this is an intermittant hardware fault?
well id say it is. sounds like a capacitor that works normally only when at a certain temperature.
have a look on the mobo, see if any of the caps are leaking or are buldged
Post by: fahrenheit on September 23, 2005, 05:34:00 PM
Looks like I'm in the same boat as everyone else.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 23, 2005, 06:18:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 24 2005, 10:09 AM)
Looks like I'm in the same boat as everyone else.
shit man this sux. just try poking around a bit. im pretty sure it has to be a hardware fault
Post by: fahrenheit on September 23, 2005, 06:26:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 23, 2005, 06:53:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 24 2005, 11:01 AM)
Then it FRAO'd a few more times and then I got another successful boot, but the clock had to be reset again, even though the power had been constant.
well that is strange. sounds very much like a power issue. it may be getting 'bad' power out of the psu, untill it heats up a bit.
just give the psu a very thorough goign over, and see if you can find anything sus.
Post by: fahrenheit on September 23, 2005, 06:55:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 23, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 24 2005, 11:30 AM)
tried 3 PSU's, so its not them the fault is definitely on the mobo.
well that is a bitch then. i still doubt its a bios or software issue.
this would be much easier if we could get our hands on the circuit diagram for the mobo.
Post by: fahrenheit on September 26, 2005, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 27, 2005, 01:38:00 AM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 27 2005, 11:00 AM)
On further testing, I'm getting lockups in games. Looks like another unexplainable FRAO console to add to the list.
this is really shitting me, even though my xbox isnt doing it.
so whats the facts we have established?
its not the hdd
not the dvd
not a psu fault.
not a software (bios/dashboard) issue
so it has to be a hardware failure on the motherboard.
damm i wish we had the schematics for the mobo, so we could see what is causing it.
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on September 27, 2005, 05:46:00 PM
This one has an X3 installed, worked like a charm for the past 6 months or so. SO I'm doing a little maintainance, cleaning up wires, and decided to hardwire my wireless controller reciever/transmitter. I got to work and everything was fine, soldering WAY away from my X-Box. Hook it all back up, coat the reciever/transmitter PCB with a crapload of electric tape, and close her all up. Keep in mind I didn't touch a damn thing on the mobo, NOTHING. I hit the button and I get reboot twice. I'm pretty pissed now so I open her back up, check all my wires, and it still does it. So just out of curiousness, I held my power button in, disableing the chip and it goes strait to MS Dash. Today I just redid the entire LPC pinheader, and the D0 wire. Prayed a little, still does it! If I unhook my X3, works perfect. I know this isn't directly related since you are all working on unmodded mobos, but does anyone have a suggestion for this?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 27, 2005, 07:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Gokussj5okazu @ Sep 28 2005, 10:21 AM)
If I unhook my X3, works perfect.
well im not too sure about yuor logic, but mine is telling me that ur chip has had it. i dont supose you have another chip hanging around you could whack in it do you?
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on September 27, 2005, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 27, 2005, 10:06:00 PM
QUOTE(Gokussj5okazu @ Sep 28 2005, 01:53 PM)
Nope, sure don't. I didn't even touch the chip though, and both the LEDs on it come on, its still sending signal to my pro switch in front. I guese it could be kaput, it just doesn't sound right to me.
hmmmm
well this is an odd one.
if it doesnt boot the chip, but boots the bios off teh mobo, then it has to be the chip.
can you boot the box up into the OS modchip?
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on September 27, 2005, 10:05:00 PM
Oh yeah, how do I boot into the OS?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 28, 2005, 06:58:00 AM
QUOTE(Gokussj5okazu @ Sep 28 2005, 03:16 PM)
Ok, unfortunately I discovered something else. I turned it on, X3 off, and the clock setter came up. I set the time, shut my X-Box off, and turned it back on. The time thing was there again, I tried this several times and it will not keep time.
well this may big a very big hint.
i know that the xbox uses a cap to keep power to the mobo to keep the clock when there is no power connected.
i dont know what cap it is, but id bet its fucked. even though your not unplugging the xbox from power, if teh cap is fucked, that coudl be a major part of the problem.
have a look around on here to see if you can find out which cap it is. maybe pm networkboy, he'd be able to tell you.
im not 100% sure that this is the problem, but could be a major part of it
Post by: omg0t on September 30, 2005, 09:27:00 AM
btw if i boot my box without a chip it does this with the frao, but if i boot with my smartxx 2 it frag's, any ideas?
good luck
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 30, 2005, 07:01:00 PM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 1 2005, 02:02 AM)
btw if i boot my box without a chip it does this with the frao, but if i boot with my smartxx 2 it frag's, any ideas?
well then it has to be something to do with the chip or the lpc port
Post by: fahrenheit on September 30, 2005, 09:36:00 PM
I hate intermittent faults.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on September 30, 2005, 09:56:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Oct 1 2005, 02:11 PM)
Well today my Xbox works flawlessly with the chip on or off. No lockups either.
I hate intermittent faults.
I hate intermittent faults.
yeah they are pains for sure.
try running it hot, then reboot it a few times.
if its intermittient, it would be nice to know if it tends to want to work more if its hot or cold.
Post by: omg0t on September 30, 2005, 11:23:00 PM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Oct 1 2005, 02:36 AM)
well then it has to be something to do with the chip or the lpc port
so ur sayin that the lpc makes it frao with the chip not installed?
and then the lpc is making my box frag with the chip on?
y would it frao without the chip and then frag with the chip
also could u check my lpc for damage, i cant see damage on it
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/26821051939.jpg&s=x1
thanks :)
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 01, 2005, 01:03:00 AM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 1 2005, 03:58 PM)
so ur sayin that the lpc makes it frao with the chip not installed?
and then the lpc is making my box frag with the chip on?
and then the lpc is making my box frag with the chip on?
well if it does somethign different when the chip is on, then it has to be something to do with either the chip, or the lpc bus.
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 1 2005, 03:58 PM)
also could u check my lpc for damage, i cant see damage on it
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/26821051939.jpg&s=x1
thanks
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/26821051939.jpg&s=x1
thanks
well it certinally doesnt look damaged
but remember that it could be a little transistor that has had it, and you wouldnt be able to see that.
so it has to be a hardware thing on teh motherboard, and it has to be directly to do with the lpc socket, and whether or not it loads the bios off the mobo or the chip.
if someone with a board liek this could play around with the circuitry around the lpc bus, that would be very helpfull.
Post by: Andy Holloway on October 01, 2005, 11:18:00 PM
so i PMed perplex and he said if it boots fine its most likely a dry joint, so i spent ages trying to find it, never getting a FRAO or FRAG just never got it to say 128MB ram, i gave up for the day soon after, and was using the box for a few hours on and off, all up about 6-7 hours later i got my first FRAO, at first it would happen maybe 1 in 5, wasnt too worried, it started doing it more often, and i worked out that if i turned it off and straight back on it would FRAO always, leaving it 2mins was always enough to make it work again, the FRAOs bacame more and mroe consistant, until my theory wasnt valid anymore, it was now only working 1 in 10 or so attempts, and soon after stopped working alltogether, i put it in the cupboard for a week, and it still FRAOS now.today i spent 3-4 hours cleaning up my ram install, cleaning flux away, checking everything. and it still FRAOs...
does this follow any patterns?
my multimeter isnt here for me to use, so i cant check anything... i think i give up, get another mobo off ebay
Post by: omg0t on October 02, 2005, 01:16:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 02, 2005, 02:03:00 AM
from the evidence by other poeples experinces, it could be:
ram
ide controller
lpc bus/pins
**most likely heat affected component(s), worsening with wear**
so its a real stab in the dark to fix it
Post by: omg0t on October 02, 2005, 05:24:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Oct 2 2005, 10:14 AM)
well maybe the FRAO is just the code for 'shits all fucked up, and i have no idea what it is".
i agree
Post by: Andy Holloway on October 02, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Oct 2 2005, 10:14 AM)
well maybe the FRAO is just the code for 'shits all fucked up, and i have no idea what it is".
yep, i think this should become the official explaination for FRAO, there is no logic or simple answer to it, no matter how hard you think. M$ may have just made it do this when it doesnt boot properly and no other error code is available... basically what ferrari_rulz_02 said
Post by: thedominor on October 02, 2005, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on October 02, 2005, 01:39:00 PM
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on October 02, 2005, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: omg0t on October 02, 2005, 09:28:00 PM
also wut gauge wire should i use for this fix?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 03, 2005, 01:03:00 AM
QUOTE(thedominor @ Oct 3 2005, 06:05 AM)
Also it seems to me that a lot of people are getting only .2 volts on pin 5.
well if we can get more people to test ther FRAO board for this, it would be helpfull
QUOTE(Gokussj5okazu @ Oct 3 2005, 06:14 AM)
Just thought I'd let everyone know what networkboy told me. If you're having a problem like mine, chip on it FRAOs but chip off it works but doesn't keep time, it's probally the 2.5v 1F cap down in th lower left hand corner of a v1.0 mobo.
do you know which cap exactly? if you do, can you post a pic of it, and where it is on the motherboard?
Post by: thedominor on October 03, 2005, 03:40:00 PM
Post by: camp on October 03, 2005, 07:39:00 PM
btw...i would get intermittent "coma" symptoms w/ eject between "sucessful" boots
now all i get is coma symptoms w/o eject
seems to me that something on the mobo slowly deteriorated to the point of completely nonfunctioning. i think i rebooted to the point where whatever was partially broken is completely faulty now
hope this helps
Post by: omg0t on October 03, 2005, 09:23:00 PM
also wut gauge wire should i use?
and can i still boot the tsop with this and boot from the modchip with my smartxx v2.0?
thank you
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 04, 2005, 02:39:00 AM
QUOTE(camp @ Oct 4 2005, 12:14 PM)
seems to me that something on the mobo slowly deteriorated to the point of completely nonfunctioning. i think i rebooted to the point where whatever was partially broken is completely faulty now
that seems to be teh trend with all of the mobos with this problem.
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 4 2005, 02:34 PM)
also wut gauge wire should i use?
just use something small, so that you can easily mould it to where it has to go
Post by: thedominor on October 04, 2005, 01:26:00 PM
Post by: Gokussj5okazu on October 04, 2005, 07:19:00 PM
Post by: omg0t on October 04, 2005, 08:30:00 PM
Post by: thedominor on October 05, 2005, 11:52:00 AM
Post by: omg0t on October 05, 2005, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: thedominor on October 05, 2005, 10:58:00 PM
. I'm guesing the MCPX is dead. OH! What version xbox do you have? my was 1.0 and a smoking home.
Post by: omg0t on October 05, 2005, 11:53:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 06, 2005, 02:41:00 AM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 6 2005, 04:28 PM)
mines a 1.4 or 1.5, not sure wut the difference is or how to tell the two apart
have a look on the xs main page for a tut on how to tell
Post by: thedominor on October 06, 2005, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: omg0t on October 06, 2005, 04:26:00 PM
**i have a 1.4 or 1.5 xbox**
everything was working great when i got it, i modded it with a smartxx v2.0 and a USA solderless adapter, **only weird thing was my D0 was filled, so i took a sewing needle and poked it a little and now everything works great with modchip turned on or off**
then i decided hey i wanna record video of me playing. so i got the xdk (im dumb) and not so long after that i was banned
then i wanted to get unbanned so i took off my modchip and solderless adapter so that i can put it on my friends box and get his eeprom. issues got in the way of this such as one friend had an xbox with all the 16 holes filled with soldered (wtf) and one had a 1.6 and i dont have the lpc rebuild.
**i also did the cheaper easier rf remote mod everything was still working great**
http://www.xboxscene.com/articles/rf-power.php
**in this mod i soldered a wire from the rf reviever to the xbox's front panel**
http://www.xboxscene.com/imageserver3/rf-power/Front_Panel.jpg
**in the picture i soldered the wire to the point on the right**
anyways i was messin around with my sammy cuz i wanted to put a 616E in. thats a work in progress, but after messin around with my dvd drive (taking the metal case off and looking around) btw **i did all of this away from my motherboard**
and **when i put everything back together i instantly get three reboots and a frao**
so **i tried booting with the modchip on with the solderless adapter this time i get an instant three reboots and a frag**
**in both cases i have no video or audio**
**then i decide im gonna boot with a stock xbox (no mods at all) so i desolder my rf mod wire from the front panel and now the on button doesnt work, the eject button does but the on button doesnt work**
**and when i put the modchip on i no longer get three reboots and a frag i now get three reboots and a frao**
so my question to u guys would be:
****WTF****
thanks
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 07, 2005, 03:18:00 AM
Post by: omg0t on October 07, 2005, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: thedominor on October 07, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 6 2005, 06:01 PM)
**and when i put the modchip on i no longer get three reboots and a frag i now get three reboots and a frao**
so my question to u guys would be:
****WTF****
thanks
Excellent job of description there.
Post by: thedominor on October 07, 2005, 12:33:00 PM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 6 2005, 06:01 PM)
**and when i put the modchip on i no longer get three reboots and a frag i now get three reboots and a frao**
so my question to u guys would be:
****WTF****
thanks
Excellent job of description there. (Totally not sarcastic)
Post by: fahrenheit on October 07, 2005, 04:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Gokussj5okazu @ Oct 5 2005, 02:30 PM)
Ok, that cap that networkboy told me could be bad didn't help me atleast. I pulled the old one off and tossed a new one from another v1.0 mobo on, and now the mobo is stuck in an infinite FRAO, no 3 reboots, just instant FRAO.
I'm gonna replace that cap. My v1.0 won't keep time after a FRAO. My v1.0 has been plugged in and out of the power constantly throughout its working life. Everytime I used it would require a clock reset, so I'm guessing that the cap maybe gone?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 07, 2005, 08:04:00 PM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 8 2005, 01:41 AM)
yes
yes what??
Post by: omg0t on October 07, 2005, 09:57:00 PM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Oct 7 2005, 11:29 AM)
ok, so was teh last ting you did before it frao'd was fiddle with the dvd drive?
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 7 2005, 04:41 PM)
yes
yes, the last thing i did before it frao'd was mess with my dvd drive
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 07, 2005, 11:43:00 PM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 8 2005, 02:32 PM)
yes, the last thing i did before it frao'd was mess with my dvd drive
ok then. is it possible there is a short in the drive then?
Post by: omg0t on October 08, 2005, 12:40:00 AM
QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Oct 8 2005, 07:18 AM)
ok then. is it possible there is a short in the drive then?
well even when i boot without any drives plugged in (the yellow power cable to the dvd drive and the ide cable are both unplugged from the motherboard), it still frao's
so it cant be a problem with the dvd drive
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 08, 2005, 12:46:00 AM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 8 2005, 05:15 PM)
so it cant be a problem with the dvd drive
might be the ide controller. might just have to add it to teh pile of frao'd boards that we cant find the problem.
but if the last thing you did was fiddle with the dvd, then it would most likely be the ide controller. if your feeling confident and you have another box, stick that dvd drive in and see what happens
Post by: omg0t on October 08, 2005, 12:48:00 AM
but where is the ide controller on the xbox?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 08, 2005, 12:51:00 AM
QUOTE(omg0t @ Oct 8 2005, 05:23 PM)
but where is the ide controller on the xbox?
not sure, i dont think you will ever know unless you can get your hands on a copy of the circuit diagrams.
but it would be all done within 1 or 2 chips, and not much else
Post by: omg0t on October 09, 2005, 07:52:00 PM
also when i flip the switch on my smartxx v2.0 to turn it off, it still turns on and the box frags
wut version box do u guys have that fraos?
does anything else happen when u put a chip on?
Post by: fr_dr on October 09, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 10, 2005, 02:36:00 AM
QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 10 2005, 02:13 PM)
I think that we should take in consideration that almost every board that FRAO also only got 0.2v on LPC pin3 (reset signal). So what i think is that either this is a CONSEQUENCE of fraoing or it's the CAUSE. If it's the cause, then we must find what part can cause this loss of voltage.
totally agree. what we need, is someone with two mobos (same version), one that frao's and one that doesnt. hook them up, turn them onn and just see what is causing the problem.
Post by: fr_dr on October 15, 2005, 07:22:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 15, 2005, 07:40:00 AM
QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 15 2005, 11:57 PM)
bump
incase anyoen ahs any info or thoughts that might help save these poor xbox's
Post by: PimpleX on October 15, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
I think it's MCPX failure, and unless you are godlike AND have a solder rework station to hand it's total and permanent failure. This is my opinion.
I have my v1.0 and v1.1 frao boards still and follow this thread in the vain hope some sense will be made of it and an answer forthcoming, sadly I am now of the opinion above, ...that it won't happen.
The IDE controller is part of the MCPX chip apparantly BTW.
I can and have tested these against working v1.0 and v1.1 boards for comparison, all the frao boards have 0.2v on pin 3 of the LPC and I wager 0.0 volts at the MCPX chip also (mine do, see my posts much earlier in this thread).
If anyone can think of a sensible side by side test they want done to confirm a theory then I'll do it and post here (if I think it's valid).
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: thedominor on October 15, 2005, 11:53:00 AM
Post by: fahrenheit on October 15, 2005, 03:06:00 PM
Games are a mixed bag. Some will consistantly crash at the exact same point every single time with a frozen screen and audio stuck in a loop. Others seem to play fine.
At the moment, the console is being used to run XBMC which it does without issue.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 15, 2005, 05:40:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Oct 16 2005, 08:17 AM)
Well my v1.0 is inconsistant. It FRAO's at startup 99% of the time
well that sounds about right for an ic that is pretty much dead.
and the more i think about it, the MCPX is the heart of the xbox, and it makes total sense that this is the problem.
just thinking, the MCPX gets pretty hot, doesnt it? maybe some heatsinks on it would be warranted. if not heat, i cant think of anythign that would screw it up, and on this many occasions
Post by: thedominor on October 15, 2005, 07:17:00 PM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Oct 15 2005, 05:17 PM)
Well my v1.0 is inconsistant. It FRAO's at startup 99% of the time, but I can then press eject and the modchip BIOS will kick in and load the dash.
Games are a mixed bag. Some will consistantly crash at the exact same point every single time with a frozen screen and audio stuck in a loop. Others seem to play fine.
At the moment, the console is being used to run XBMC which it does without issue.
Games are a mixed bag. Some will consistantly crash at the exact same point every single time with a frozen screen and audio stuck in a loop. Others seem to play fine.
At the moment, the console is being used to run XBMC which it does without issue.
So, does this mean that nine times out of ten when you press the eject button after booting it works? Or that you can get it to boot the modchip bios everytime by pressing the eject button. That is odd either way. Maybe only a certain portion your MCPX is dead, and enough hasn't been burned out to break it completely! awsome though.
As for the MCPX getting hot, it most deffinetly does, it's got a temperature monitor just like the CPU! I've heard from alex548, a great guy, that if you have a TSOP'd box you should deffinetly get a sink cause the split causes more heat to be generated or something. And I remember that the last time before my box went FRAO 100% my MCPX temperature reading was really really high, like 136F.
so yeah, the three of us are in agreement so far.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 15, 2005, 07:37:00 PM
QUOTE(thedominor @ Oct 16 2005, 11:52 AM)
And I remember that the last time before my box went FRAO 100% my MCPX temperature reading was really really high, like 136F.
thats what, nearly 58 celsius. damm hot.
i think ill be getting a heatsink for my mcpx very soon.
Post by: thedominor on October 15, 2005, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: fahrenheit on October 15, 2005, 11:26:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 16, 2005, 12:51:00 AM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Oct 16 2005, 04:01 PM)
thedominor, I get 100% boot rate by pressing the eject button. Occassionally the console will power on without FRAO.
well that also sounds like an mcpx that isnt completley dead
Post by: fr_dr on October 16, 2005, 07:08:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 16, 2005, 07:26:00 AM
QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 16 2005, 11:43 PM)
Is there a way to test the MCPX with a multimeter to see if its still alive and still got power?
if you knew teh pinout, sure. but i dont know if you can get that.
maybe pm networkboy and see if he can help you.
but just remember its one thing to test if the MCPX is getting power, but it is a much different thing to test if it is working properally.
Post by: thedominor on October 16, 2005, 10:22:00 AM
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Oct 16 2005, 01:01 AM)
thedominor, I get 100% boot rate by pressing the eject button. Occassionally the console will power on without FRAO.
Wow thats odd. Don't unmodded xboxs boot when you hit the eject button from a standby state? Does that work for you fahrenheit, or do you have to hit the power and then the eject?
I now believe that most FRAO is related to MCPX dying from heat over time, so I doubt that there is much you can do to fix it, but maybe we can figure out how to bypass part of the mcpx. If you are really eager/desperate to get you smoke fixed, you might be able to pay perplexer to do it, but I'm not sure. MCPX replacement is tricky as hell, and he only recently succeded at it, and I don't know if he is offering that service.
A read ghetto thing that might work is to solder the corresponding leads from the eject button to the power button, so every time you press either button, both buttons are triggered, but that might get annoying or even problematic. I've never heard off anyone doing that, and I haven't thought it through, but it might work.
QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 16 2005, 08:43 AM)
Is there a way to test the MCPX with a multimeter to see if its still alive and still got power?
If you look at the MCPX, one corner shoud have a colored notch/line in it. If you set your mulimeter to read 20V DC and put your black lead on ground (a screw pad) and check vias (small contacts) near that corner you should come up with 3.3V i think. If you want to be more exact, check around page two of this thread, PimpleX does a great comparison between FRAO and non-FRAO boards.
Post by: fahrenheit on October 16, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
No point in wiring up the power and eject buttons, because I still have to wait for the boot to fail twice then FRAO before I can press the eject button.
I can use XBMC and stream and watch movies over my network for hours, use the hard drive and DVD drive, but games kill it, so perhaps that leads more credibility to MCPX failure?
Post by: thedominor on October 16, 2005, 04:16:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 18, 2005, 02:05:00 AM
Due to its complicated nature (and teh fact that it handles just about everything in the xbox), the most common fault is only part of the MCPX dieing.
as said, replacing it would be a bitch. but if you had another non-working board, and some smd soldering experince, it would be possible to change them over.
Post by: thedominor on October 18, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 19, 2005, 04:10:00 AM
QUOTE(thedominor @ Oct 19 2005, 05:09 AM)
yes, deffinetly part of the mcpx died. it is interesting though that the bios on the the chip loads and runs fine for some reason when he presses the eject button. meaning that only a very small part of his mcpx is dead i guess?
well id say that yes, only a small part is fried
Post by: Dallas186 on October 20, 2005, 03:11:00 PM
sorry to jump into this thread right at the end but i recently had exactly the same problem with a V1.0 that was brought into the shop which was FRAO, I don't normally repair Xbox's only PS2's but it was worth a go, no fix no fee.
pin 5 (RST) of the LPC was showing 0.17V which i knew couldn't be right from trawling data from this site.
Initially i couldn't find the problem but was 100% sure that it wasn't a broken trace but had a gut feeling that the problem lay around the LPC area, (initially supecting R7R5 even though the meter said not) but after changing all 4 resistors it showed no change. so stuck at this point i bought a working V1 motherboard from ebay and compared readings like for like.. the significant factor was only 0.17v coming out of the 6pin chip on pin 6 as opposed to 3.2V on the working board!
swapping the chip off of the working board (very carefully) and soldering it onto the non-working board solved the problem , 3.2V on pin 5 and the box booted normally.
unfortunately now i'm left with a broken v1.0 board and no profit but hey
PimpleX threw up a very nice photo of the board at the start of this thread so iv'e stolen it (sorry m8) to show the chip that i'm referring to (it's ringed).
Now if any of you guys that know far more about the Xbox than i ever will can identify what this component is I too would be mucho grateful!!
I took a photo of that part of the board when comparing the 2 boards side by side and have reference to the voltages at most points around that area and resistor values from the working board if you would like me to post it.
strange thing was R7R8 read 47k on the non working board and 20k on the working board (ummmm)
I hope this helps anyone else that is showing low V on pin 5.
Best,
Rich
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Aug 29 2005, 11:04 PM)
Post by: fr_dr on October 20, 2005, 03:24:00 PM
) and try to change it to see if it solve my FRAO board problem...???
Post by: thedominor on October 20, 2005, 05:43:00 PM
QUOTE(Dallas186 @ Oct 20 2005, 04:46 PM)
Hi Guys,
swapping the chip off of the working board (very carefully) and soldering it onto the non-working board solved the problem , 3.2V on pin 5 and the box booted normally.
Now if any of you guys that know far more about the Xbox than i ever will can identify what this component is I too would be mucho grateful!!
I took a photo of that part of the board when comparing the 2 boards side by side and have reference to the voltages at most points around that area and resistor values from the working board if you would like me to post it.
strange thing was R7R8 read 47k on the non working board and 20k on the working board (ummmm)
I hope this helps anyone else that is showing low V on pin 5.
Best,
Rich
swapping the chip off of the working board (very carefully) and soldering it onto the non-working board solved the problem , 3.2V on pin 5 and the box booted normally.
Now if any of you guys that know far more about the Xbox than i ever will can identify what this component is I too would be mucho grateful!!
I took a photo of that part of the board when comparing the 2 boards side by side and have reference to the voltages at most points around that area and resistor values from the working board if you would like me to post it.
strange thing was R7R8 read 47k on the non working board and 20k on the working board (ummmm)
I hope this helps anyone else that is showing low V on pin 5.
Best,
Rich
sweet that is so awsome. Other than being an IC, i couldn't tell you what that chip is for. But it sounds like this is the fix we've wanted...too bad I already installed my new mobo
oh well, it is still good to know. Thanks! I wonder if pimplex has some extra boards he could try this with?QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 20 2005, 04:59 PM)
So does anyone know where to get a replacement for this chip (i mean elsewhere then a working mobo) or if these chip are all the same on every version from 1.0 to 1.6, so I could get my hand on a broken xbox (non FRAO of course ) and try to change it to see if it solve my FRAO board problem...???
) and try to change it to see if it solve my FRAO board problem...???No idea about the chip being the same, but if I pull my 1.4 out of my box, I will compare it with my busted 1.0 and see if they look identical. as for where to buy and mobo, check the Buy/Sell/Trade forums.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 21, 2005, 12:43:00 AM
Post by: Dallas186 on October 21, 2005, 04:32:00 AM
QUOTE(Dallas186 @ Oct 20 2005, 10:46 PM)
strange thing was R7R8 read 47k on the non working board and 20k on the working board (ummmm)
Hi,
decimal point missing, sorry 4.7k is the correct value for the resistor R7R8, reading 2.0k was more than likely pulldown from something else.
just going back to this IC for a second, Iv'e got a theory that it's actually a dual transistor in SOT-28 format.
I have now also bought a (repaired-now working) 1.4 board and can confirm that the component is the same on version 1's and V1.4's so it's a fair bet that the component is common to all versions though this is a hunch.
I'm tempted to pull this component off the 1.4 board and see if i can work out what it is (wish me luck)
can anyone else with the FRAO problem just confirm that they see low voltage on pin 5 of the LPC and the SAME voltage on pin 6 of that 'IC' at least then it shows a theme to the problem and not that the FRAO just means that a component has gone duff and could in fact refer to ANY component as was so eloquently described in an earlier post...lol
that would really help me.
Best,
Rich
Post by: PimpleX on October 21, 2005, 04:26:00 AM
You mean changing this q7r1 IC fixed it after all??:
I just figured I must be barking up the wrong tree when I considered it to be that, then because the traces mostly go to the MCPX I figured it must be there instead due to likely heat failure LOL...I will have a go at swapping one over soon.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 21, 2005, 04:30:00 AM
Post by: Dallas186 on October 21, 2005, 07:01:00 AM
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Oct 21 2005, 12:37 PM)
Hello, what's all this then?
You mean changing this q7r1 IC fixed it after all??:
I just figured I must be barking up the wrong tree when I considered it to be that, then because the traces mostly go to the MCPX I figured it must be there instead due to likely heat failure LOL...I will have a go at swapping one over soon.
Cheers,
PimpleX
You mean changing this q7r1 IC fixed it after all??:
I just figured I must be barking up the wrong tree when I considered it to be that, then because the traces mostly go to the MCPX I figured it must be there instead due to likely heat failure LOL...I will have a go at swapping one over soon.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Yes, i'll almost guarentee that if you can change Q7R1 for a known good one then you will regain 3.2v on pin 5 of the LPC, whether that would will cure your FRAO problem remains to be seen but i WOULD love to know.
when i get home i'll compare your voltage readings with the ones i took on the duff IC before it was changed out.
Rich.
Post by: PimpleX on October 21, 2005, 07:36:00 AM
Volts on the MCPX look much better during 3 boot attempts though than they did previously, but still 0.0v after the 3 boot attemts. Whereas "normal" FRAgging boards have 3.3V on the MCPX I'm pretty sure I tested for before now and that's right,.... correct me if that's wrong though.
There are also two more of these ICs the same markings on top of the board, one near the MCPX and one near the TSOP,..... I've measured the volts on them and the one near the TSOP gives almost the same readings as the q7r1 IC on the same board, so make an easier measuring point to check I think. However I'll try that all again just to make sure that's correct. There are also two flavours of this IC that I've found so far, one like the photo above looks like MA-I the other looks like MAk, still not enough info to look anything up about them though...
This was really fiddly to change mind and I made a bit of a mess of it to be honest (about 5 x harder than the 1.6 tranny change I'd say) and I had to redo it twice LOL and you have to get it the right way around. Mind you I'm using an ordinary 18w soldering iron and tip, nothing fancy, I think I'll put wires on the next one and solder them to the pads instead for a more "certain" result.
I'll try it again on my v1.0 FRAO which is now FRAG but still with 0.0v on the MCPX also, but i'll take measurements on the bare solder pads and try it without the IC before putting on the new IC just to see what might happen.
What does this IC do then you think?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 22, 2005, 02:25:00 AM
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Oct 22 2005, 12:47 AM)
What does this IC do then you think?
i think it was said before. its a dual transisitor
Post by: Dallas186 on October 23, 2005, 04:06:00 PM
yeah, nightmare ain't it
Weller all the way for me. 60W and a .75mm tip
works a treat.
Rich
Post by: Dallas186 on October 23, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
ok, done a lot of thinking/searching/head scratching on this one and FINALLY sorted it!!
the component in question is indeed a dual transistor of the NPN flavour, it's a MBT3904DW1T1 manufactured by 'Motorola' and the format is SOT-363. Basically it's a dual 2N3904 general purpose signal transistor.
you can grab the datasheet for it here
from the datasheet we get that
Pin 1. Emitter Q1
Pin 2. Base Q1
Pin 3. Collector Q2
Pin 4. Emitter Q2
Pin 5. Base Q2
Pin 6. Collector Q1
this now all makes perfect sense!
just to prove the point i did a bit of a test using actually 2 BC337's as it's the nearest i could find to hand, soldering them onto the motherboard in place of the blown MA IC and it worked, booting into the dashboard without any problems.
it's not pretty but proves the point!!
Tomorrow i'm going to try and buy some proper MBT3904DW1T1 IC's.
but really this is not a noob fix, soldering these in place on the MB is a complete nightmare and just heating them for a fraction too long blows them, so although not pretty the 2N3904 or indeed BC337 alternative is really actually easier and only cost 13p each! it's just working out where to solder each leg that's tough
To determine if it's this chip that has blown (which incidentally caused a FRAO on my V1 and a FRAG on a V1.4) test the voltage on pin 5 of the LPC, if it's less than 3.2v then this is the problem. to further determine do a search on the web for 'testing a transistor using a DVM' though you will almost certainly need to desolder the IC to thoroughly test it anyhow.
I hope this helps those that are suffering with this problem
Best regards,
Rich.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 24, 2005, 04:38:00 AM
if we can get some more people with this problem to try this, it would be great.
this NEEDS to get pinned or soemthing
Post by: Dallas186 on October 24, 2005, 06:16:00 AM
ok here's where we are, have ordered 50 MBT3904DW1T1 IC's (minimum order quantity) so if any of you guys need a couple of these PM me your postal address and i'll mail a couple to you, guys who posted in this thread before i got involved in this problem can have two or three free of charge, ok?
As this is a special order thru RS (in the UK) it's going to take between 3 and 8 days to get them so don't think iv'e forgotten about you.
obviously if there is a lot of demand then i may have to consider a very small paypal contribution to cover postage but i'm not out to make money on this.
US residents should be able to buy this IC themselves as from past experience your availability on components is FAR better than for us in the UK where if your'e not trade then you can't buy (sad but true) though more so on specialist components such as this one, having said that if your'e in the US and struggling to find this component then i'm sure i can work something out for you.
I hope this has helped you. as i'm probably going to be asking some 'daft' questions about mod dashboards/hacked bios'/flashing etc. in the near future and don't want to be laughed at..
My best regards,
Rich.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 24, 2005, 05:46:00 AM
i hope we can see if this fixes some more frao boards
but obviously the million dollar question now is......why do they blow in the first place?
Post by: Dallas186 on October 24, 2005, 06:28:00 AM
Why do they blow? interesting question. although i have no data as yet to substantiate this i am starting to think that the box has an inbuilt 'life expectancy' its not unusual for manufacturers to do this, washing machines are designed to last about 5 years on average for example. it's a method that is employed to keep the manufacturer in business by ensuring constant demand. Sony did this with the PS2 by running their lasers very much 'on the limit' though their motherboard is bulletproof by comparison to the Xbox from what i have seen so far.
The MBT3904DW1T1 will tolerate 200ma draw, for how long is debateable, you see where i'm going with this?
as this is a slightly unusual component and difficult to source and replace for your average bod and that is even if he or she could find the fault it stands to reason that this is perhaps one of the components to pick for engineered life expectancy.
I have to be a little careful on slating MS though as if you were to cut me in half it would probably say 'M!crosoft' in the middle. I won't elaborate on that one.
Best regards,
Rich.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 24, 2005, 07:10:00 AM
this could be right you know...though i hope its not
but you may never know.
atleast we know how to fix this one now.
Post by: PimpleX on October 24, 2005, 12:08:00 PM
I'm waiting for a 1mm tip for my iron before I try this again though LOL
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: Dallas186 on October 24, 2005, 02:02:00 PM
2A is a MMBT3906WT1 which is not a dual transistor, the data sheet shows only 3 pins for this package (SOT323)sorry but could you check that code again, there should be 3 letters, the first 2 are the identifier and the last the manufacturing month.
cheers m8.
Rich
Post by: Dallas186 on October 24, 2005, 04:23:00 PM
I assume that you have a reasonable wattage iron, if i had a quid for everytime i've read or been told that a low wattage iron is best than i could have retired years ago!! higher wattage is better especially for SMT components, solder quick get off fast, linger longer and blow the component even more so on IC's.
though to be fair i do have the benefit of having a SMT 'pincer' type iron.
Rich
Post by: PimpleX on October 25, 2005, 03:17:00 AM
2A / 2T looks like this http://www.xboxrepairguide.com/troubleshoot/index.php?episode=32
I say this as the parts are easier to source
P.S I DO NOT know what I am doing, i am a total (all be it enthusiastic) amature LOL
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 25, 2005, 04:32:00 AM
definitley worth a shot if they are much easier to find
Post by: Dallas186 on October 25, 2005, 06:52:00 AM
spec sheet 2A (MMBT3906)
PimpleX, As i said before just PM me your address and i'll mail you a few.
Rich
Post by: fr_dr on October 25, 2005, 07:37:00 AM
Post by: PimpleX on October 25, 2005, 08:34:00 AM
I'll await my 1mm tip and try again with the correct chip, other alternatives would be a very welcome find though if anyone can work some out, especially so if they are a bit bigger and easier to handle
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: thedominor on October 25, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: Dallas186 on October 25, 2005, 01:31:00 PM
QUOTE(fr_dr @ Oct 25 2005, 03:12 PM)
So what about 2 x 2n3904? It is a NPN, so i think it should work but i'm not shure about the specs. And does anyone know what is the pinout for these transistor?
spec sheet for a 2N3904 here
i assume your'e going to try putting 2 seperate tranny's on like i did in a post above though it was only a test to prove a point. make sure that you download the spec sheet for the MBT3904DW1T1 first from here to understand the pinouts.
hoipe that helps you, if not just post back.
Rich
Post by: PimpleX on October 25, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
I just think the 3904DW1T route will be too hard a fix for "average jo" out there (which includes me) and would like to find a method that more people can actually accomplish..... make sense? So working with a slightly larger easier to handle IC or two and despite it taking much longer to do and it not looking so neat will actually help many more people to do this fix (once we confirm it works on several boards) This is why I'm trying to make it more accessable really.
I've already tried it with the tiny 3904DW1T1 and the screw up ratio WILL be very high indeed and many will be unable to do it at all!! So, I'm searching for an easier method for more of the masses.
Run with me on this one.... can we find a commonly available 3904DW1T1 dual transistor replacement in a slightly larger package?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 27, 2005, 01:36:00 AM
ill have a bit of a search around the local shops, see if i can find something close to what were looking for.
Post by: fr_dr on October 29, 2005, 08:57:00 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on October 30, 2005, 01:17:00 AM
Post by: Dallas186 on October 31, 2005, 08:02:00 AM
QUOTE(thedominor @ Oct 25 2005, 09:04 PM)
I'm really glad to hear progress has been made, thanks Dallas and Pimple especially for doing so much testing. I think I have some 3904s in my 'kit,' so I might bust out my old mobo and see if this works. It sounds like maybe I should get a small tip though, and I'm glad to hear an explanation of a soldering iron that makes sense; in my own words, hotter irons melt that shit faster = less waiting and uncertainty. Dallas, do you think you could do some ms paint over that pic you posted with the two Ts, to show which is EBC? I know which was the board is facing because of the traces. That would be appreciated so i don't have to figure it out myself
Hi,
sure, in fact i'll work out a better way of soldering these on that will be a lot easier to install. the obvious way that springs to mind is to make use of the 'ground' pad that's at the side of the LPC, so doing away with soldering to pin 1&4 of the place where the MA used to reside. that only leaves 3 other points to solder to as pins 2&3 are tied anyway. piece of cake
i'll try to do this tonight for you, wife permitting of course..lol
I'm reliably informed by RS that the 50 x MA IC's (dual 2N 3904's) that i ordered are arriving in the UK today from the US (what a laugh eh??) so should get these tomorrow. PimpleX ~ i'll mail you a few hopefully tomorrow. ok?
now if i could just figure out how to flash this Aladdin XT Pro then i would be happy....hehehe
Rich
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 01, 2005, 02:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Dallas186 @ Nov 1 2005, 01:37 AM)
i'll try to do this tonight for you, wife permitting of course..lol
allways the limiting factor.
well if you get the time, let us know how they go.
cheers
Post by: fr_dr on November 01, 2005, 02:34:00 PM
I just want to let you all know that i found someone that sell these dual smt transistor (3904 NPN) on ebay. The name is bob-ke6f (http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZbob-ke6fQQhtZ-1) and the good news is that he sell pak of 100 for only 5-6 $. I won one auction and there's still another one ending in 2 days, so be fast
but there will probably be more in the future.I'll try this fix as soon as i receive these transistor and ill let you know what are the results.
Post by: PimpleX on November 02, 2005, 07:19:00 AM
Results:
Now I have a smaller tip and some desolder wick things are a whole lot easier to do.....
Fitting the trannie corrects the 0.196v (0.2v) problem on LPC pin 5 on both my boards (v1.0 and v1.1), they now show 3.3v as normal ......BUT they both boot 3 times then FRAG and have 0.0V on the MPCX. The LPC is all good, but both still frag. During the 3 boot attempts the volts on the MCPX do hit 3.3v, then are 0.0v when it's running and flashing red and green though.
Possible scenarios:
1.The dual trannie does two jobs, one for the LPC pin 5 and one for the MPCX and I fried the MCPX half of the trannie on install...but that's doubtful on two boards and careful and neat install.
2.My MCPXs have died
3.On my boards there's another fault besides the dual trannie killing power to the MCPX.
I have double checked my soldering.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: PimpleX on November 02, 2005, 07:40:00 AM
I received my trannies off Dallas (many thanks for those Dallas!)
Results:
Now I have a smaller tip and some desolder wick things are a whole lot easier to do.....
Fitting the trannie corrects the 0.196v (0.2v) problem on LPC pin 5 on both my boards (v1.0 and v1.1), they now show 3.3v as normal ......BUT they both boot 3 times then FRAG and have 0.0V on the MPCX.
Now I've got hooked up on this 0.0V thing on the MCPX and it turns out to irrelavent as all FRAGing board do that!!! I just tested it by earthing D0 on a working board and it does exactly the same thing, funny I'm sure I tried this before and got 3.3V ...anyway I now think 0.0v on the MCPX doesn't matter as long as it hits 3.3v during the 3 boot attempts then the MCPX part of the circuit looks good. (that's my now theory anyway!!)
So I'm back to fragging board with good LPC volts,....I have double checked my soldering.
Suggestions?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 03, 2005, 02:20:00 AM
QUOTE(PimpleX @ Nov 3 2005, 01:15 AM)
So I'm back to fragging board with good LPC volts,....I have double checked my soldering.
Suggestions?
Suggestions?
this may be a bit dangerous, but the MCPX need 3.3v all the time, right?
then solder a wire from a 3.3v source on the mobo across.
but before you try that, back track thge trace that should have teh 3.3v to teh MCPX on it, and see if you can find another dud component
Post by: Dallas186 on November 03, 2005, 08:15:00 AM
ok, the original MA was clearly duff as at least now you have 3.3v on pin 5 which has gotta be a move in the right direction.
i'm not convinced that this particular component is responsible for powering the MCPX chip anyway, primarily because at 200ma (MAX forward I) it wouldn't have the guts to drive it.
IMHO you need to be looking at something more like the MTD3302 NFET transistor but i really am NOT an expert on Xbox hardware, (i'm learning so please bear with me) so i really could be talking b0llocks.
I assume that you have another working board from which to take some comparative readings, if not i have a breadboarded v1 on the bench at the moment, let me know if you need any data from various points on the board.
I'm sorry that replacing this dual tranny didn't solve your problem, but just to confirm that it IS the right IC for the job i soldered one in place of those 2 BC337's on a V1.4 board (from earlier in the thread) and voila! it worked perfectly, though obviously this board had no other serious problems.
Rich
Post by: PimpleX on November 07, 2005, 02:48:00 PM
I got a 1.3 mobo today and replaced some missing resistors and away she went...so i flashed the TSOP and unlocked the hard disk and was 1/2 way thru FTPing the hard disk to my standard Evox setup and then it froze and the FTP failed.
On reboot and it boots 3 times and FRAGs (yes flashing RED and GREEN)
I am gutted I can tell you, WTF??? I measure the LPC volts and they several are off, I didn't write them down, but Pin 1 and pin 5 were defo miles off
So I take the last dual transistor I had left from Dallas186 and decided to try that....
Well it worked, volts are normal and it's working fine again.
Soooo, what does this mean I hear you ask?
Well, I'd say it rules out the Q7R1 dual transistor as being the SOLE cause of FRAO motherboards, as my boards' Q7R1 had clearly failed and it was FRAGing. replacing the Q7R1 trannie fixed it.
****************************************************************
On a secondary note: I've also confirmed 0.0V on the MCPX on FRAGing boards, so that measurement is now totally irelavent and needs to be ignored as misinformation (started by me LOL) when looking for FRAO board solutions. So drop the 0.0v on MCPX now please, I have.
****************************************************************
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 08, 2005, 05:19:00 AM
well it could really be one of two things:
a) - too much current being drawn through it
- the voltage is too high (caused by another failing component elsewhere)does anyone agree with that?
Post by: Dallas186 on November 09, 2005, 05:18:00 AM
bad news. i killed my only working version 1 mobo yesterday trying to take voltage readings off of the SC1186CSW 24pin programmable DC/DC voltage regulator (the one on the underside of the board). completely my fault, i got as far as pin 12 when the probe slipped of the leg and shorted pins 12 and 13. a tiny puff of smoke and that was that. what was previously 6.xx volts out pin 12 became 0 and the board fragged... AAGGGGHHH!!
seems this IC is now obsolete just to add insult to injury so can't even procure a replacement. a board for the parts bin unless i can scrounge this particular IC from another board..any volunteers to sell me this IC??? lol
Rich
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 18, 2005, 12:47:00 AM
Post by: edbtz123 on November 21, 2005, 10:16:00 AM
I think the transistor is used as a fuse (a 200mA fuse), to protect the circuitry on the board. When people start adding a bunch of things (Modchops), it increases the current needed making this fuse more suceptible to blowing. Another reason this fuse may blow is that people accidently cause a short when doing some work on the board (i think this is what I did when installing some RAM). As for the unmoded xbox's with blown transistors, this can happen over time just like it can for a fuse.
To verify this Follow the base (aka gate) lines of the transistor and see if they are always wired to an on logic (i think it would be 0 volts, or a low voltage for this transistor).
If this is the problem I would recomend replacing the transistor with a transistor rated at a higher current (say 300 mA instead of 200 mA) especially if you have added components to your board (like a modchip or extra RAM).
For people who replace the transistors and fixed a FRAO and is now FRAG, I bet you did something to the board (maybe u made a short) which then blew the transistor, and then when you replaced the transistor the initial problem (possibly a short) is still there.
I am going to probe my mobo a bit and check to see if the base is hardwired to a certain logic level.
-Mike
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 22, 2005, 01:55:00 AM
this would be a good one for people with frao'ing board to try. just make sure that you make lots of multimeter mesurments before you do this.
i like the changing it to a 300ma rated tranny, its probably the best idea
Post by: grifface on November 22, 2005, 08:55:00 AM
This post has been edited by grifface: Nov 22 2005, 04:56 PM
Post by: PimpleX on November 22, 2005, 10:45:00 AM
QUOTE(edbtz123 @ Nov 21 2005, 05:47 PM)
Has anyone tried to bypass the NPN transistor, by instead of replacing it, connect the emitter to the collector? I think this will fix the problem, as long as there is not anything else wrong. Read on before attempting this.
I think the transistor is used as a fuse (a 200mA fuse), to protect the circuitry on the board. When people start adding a bunch of things (Modchops), it increases the current needed making this fuse more suceptible to blowing. Another reason this fuse may blow is that people accidently cause a short when doing some work on the board (i think this is what I did when installing some RAM). As for the unmoded xbox's with blown transistors, this can happen over time just like it can for a fuse.
To verify this Follow the base (aka gate) lines of the transistor and see if they are always wired to an on logic (i think it would be 0 volts, or a low voltage for this transistor).
If this is the problem I would recomend replacing the transistor with a transistor rated at a higher current (say 300 mA instead of 200 mA) especially if you have added components to your board (like a modchip or extra RAM).
For people who replace the transistors and fixed a FRAO and is now FRAG, I bet you did something to the board (maybe u made a short) which then blew the transistor, and then when you replaced the transistor the initial problem (possibly a short) is still there.
I am going to probe my mobo a bit and check to see if the base is hardwired to a certain logic level.
-Mike
I think the transistor is used as a fuse (a 200mA fuse), to protect the circuitry on the board. When people start adding a bunch of things (Modchops), it increases the current needed making this fuse more suceptible to blowing. Another reason this fuse may blow is that people accidently cause a short when doing some work on the board (i think this is what I did when installing some RAM). As for the unmoded xbox's with blown transistors, this can happen over time just like it can for a fuse.
To verify this Follow the base (aka gate) lines of the transistor and see if they are always wired to an on logic (i think it would be 0 volts, or a low voltage for this transistor).
If this is the problem I would recomend replacing the transistor with a transistor rated at a higher current (say 300 mA instead of 200 mA) especially if you have added components to your board (like a modchip or extra RAM).
For people who replace the transistors and fixed a FRAO and is now FRAG, I bet you did something to the board (maybe u made a short) which then blew the transistor, and then when you replaced the transistor the initial problem (possibly a short) is still there.
I am going to probe my mobo a bit and check to see if the base is hardwired to a certain logic level.
-Mike
I'll try it as long as you tell me which pins do what again LOL...I have many mobos now as I bought a load of faulty ones off Ebay and have found at least 6 v1.0 and v1.1s among them with classic FRAO pin 1 (0.0v)and pin 5 (<0.2v) voltages showing (despite they ALL FRAG non are FRAO!!) so look good candidates for the q7r1 dual tansistor.
This is how it is on the XBOX which pins do I join? (red line is those pins joined on the XBOX already, Pin 1 and 4 are on Ground (that's Earth for us UK peeps) :
(IMG:http://www.meltdown.fsnet.co.uk/pics/XBOX/q7r1pins.jpg)
Cheers,
PimpleX
This post has been edited by PimpleX: Nov 22 2005, 06:49 PM
Post by: edbtz123 on November 22, 2005, 12:18:00 PM
QUOTE
I'll try it as long as you tell me which pins do what again LOL...I have many mobos now as I bought a load of faulty ones off Ebay and have found at least 6 v1.0 and v1.1s among them with classic FRAO pin 1 (0.0v)and pin 5 (<0.2v) voltages showing (despite they ALL FRAG non are FRAO!!) so look good candidates for the q7r1 dual tansistor.
This is how it is on the XBOX which pins do I join? (red line is those pins joined on the XBOX already, Pin 1 and 4 are on Ground (that's Earth for us UK peeps) :
This is how it is on the XBOX which pins do I join? (red line is those pins joined on the XBOX already, Pin 1 and 4 are on Ground (that's Earth for us UK peeps) :
Connect Pins 1 to 6. WHich is basically hooking ground to pin 6.
By the way the problem with 3.3 Volts not going to pin 5 is due to some logic on the MOBO not sending 3.3 Volts, it tries to send it and gets a problem so it puts the voltage back low, i tries 3 times, hence getting that double reset thing. The 3.3 Volts that should be coming into pin 5 is an INPUT to the transistor. When there is 3.3 Volts the transistor turns on connecting pin 4 to pin 3 which would then turn transistor Q2 off. If there is 0.2 Volts (typical FRAO) on pin 5 Q1 would be off which would leave pin 3 pulled up to 3.3 Volts which would turn transistor Q2 on connecting pins 1 to 6 (this I belive signals the xbox to FRAO).
Let me know what happens
Post by: PimpleX on November 22, 2005, 03:43:00 PM
Connecting pin 1 to pin 6 on the q7r1 on GOOD board will make it FRAO? (not what we want at all BTW!!) or.....
...you mean connecting pin 1 to pin 6 on a FRAO / FRAG board with classic LPC pin 1 0.0v and pin 5 <0.2v will do something favorable to it like make it work? (which IS exactly what we want BTW!!)
Your description leads me to version 1 of those two.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: PimpleX on November 22, 2005, 03:45:00 PM
Cheers,
PimpleX
This post has been edited by PimpleX: Nov 22 2005, 11:50 PM
Post by: fisix on November 22, 2005, 03:46:00 PM
I have the beginnings of the same problem on a v1.0 xbox, modded with a solderless pogopins xbit chip.
things just magically started to get worse over time. i tried bios and other software upgrades, nothing helped. about this time we noticed that the 3 and out thing happened mostly after watching a dvd, which means after booting into the msdash. also, it seemed to happen more often after xbmc timed out and automatically shut off the xbox.
so we didn't do that.
but then the 3 and out thing started happening again, but i could get the xbox to finally boot after smacking it a couple times. one day, the smacking didn't help enough, so i took it apart a reseated the mod chip after running an eraser over all the electrical contact points.
this seemed to work very well for about 2 months, and then yesterday i tried a dvd again, booted into the msdash, and then part way through the dvd the box seemed to hang a bit, but didn't immediately frao or frag.
however, when i tried to reboot, i got the 3 and out. i was able to smack it into working last night, but this morning no amount of external abuse would get it to boot.
SO, this morning i tired reseating/cleaning the points again, and it seems to be working again. enough so that i've backed up (on pc) the hd lock code, and i plan on unlocking the drive later (i installed a 300GB 5400rpm drive a while ago) to facilitate moving it if the 3 and out persists.
ANYWAY, the above is just a laundry list of my symptoms. so, lets draw some conclusions:
From what you guys have posted, and from my own experience, it looks like we are looking at a hardware issue. Since mine seemed to be influnced by the dvd spinning up (i never use it otherwise) OR by something triggering a timed soft-off, my thinking is (similar to you) that there is some dodgy device that is usually ok, but when it sees a large power draw, it switches to a bad mode that is very hard to get it out of. now, obviously, mine was also related to some mechanical issue since smacking the box brought it back to life. this could point to an issue with the pogopins or maybe with the main power connection. i doubt any other solder joints would be effected by a smack.
if there is a capacitor that has gone bad that needs to stay charged for the board to work right, then there is a chance that a large power draw (or a shock like a soft off) might discharge it and it would have a hard time recharging (if at all), a problem possibly influenced by a poor D0 contact, or some other bad contact with a mod chip. if the capacitor is there to smooth out the 3.3v you guys are missing, then it could be going bad and acting like a short, dropping the voltage down. also, whatever regulator is being used to generate that 3.3v might be working really hard to supply that 3.3v even against a leaky cap, and so it's usually on the edge and gets thrown off it when the system gets shocked.
so, wild guess, there is a leaky cap paired with an overworked regulator. a fix might require replacing both. testing the cap might be hard, because it might not be bad except under load.
OR, for some of you who have giveaway boards, you could try wiring a known source for 3.3v from another place on the board (there are probably a couple) to where pimplex is seeing a lack of the right voltage. this might fry the board, or it might bandaid the problem for a short while... i suppose if the problem is not a leaky cap and is instead soley a bad regulator, then this could be a semi permanent fix, but my guess is that it'd be short term only. you never know, though.
if my problem persists and/or gets worse, i'll put more time into trying to nail a fix down. till then, it is my hope that some of you with some time and already broken boards will try again...
one last thing, someone above said they tried replacing the cap that net(something) (don't remember the name) said might be the problem (the timer "battery" cap), but replacing it seemed to cause more problems... that cap most likely has a polarity, and probably doesn't like heat very much. if you put it on backwards or weren't really careful about keeping it cool, you could have easily turned it into a short... i'd love to see a pic.
Post by: fisix on November 22, 2005, 04:59:00 PM
some observations: if the transistor is acting a bit like a fuse, then maybe the other ones around the board are also? someone mentioned that the same or similar part is used in at least 2 other places. if replacing this one doesn't work, then maybe replacing those will help.
increasing the current spec on the device might be ok, but there's always the chance that the problems will propagate further along to some place where it's virtually impossible to repair... if the fix is cheap, and it only blows once ever couple years, it might be worthwhile to just keep replacing them...
anyway, i'm interested in how things progress. obviously, it looks like my transistor is beginning to show signs of going bad.
Post by: fahrenheit on November 22, 2005, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 23, 2005, 02:12:00 AM
QUOTE(fisix @ Nov 23 2005, 09:30 AM)
increasing the current spec on the device might be ok, but there's always the chance that the problems will propagate further along to some place where it's virtually impossible to repair... if the fix is cheap, and it only blows once ever couple years, it might be worthwhile to just keep replacing them...
thats a good point you make. id be very tempted to just buy 20 of these trannies, and replace them when they die.
Post by: grifface on November 23, 2005, 03:29:00 AM
QUOTE(grifface @ Nov 22 2005, 04:26 PM)
i have read thru quit a bit of this thread.. can somebody explain to me the difference between FRAG and FRAO .. My xbox jus started this stuff like 2 days ago when i put the lid on and hooked up the usb ports on the front of the control panel i unhooked that wire and thru it away (oops) and still have the lid off, i took the power unit out and looked it over , but found nothing. i have a v1.6 MB and my light flashes red and green.. can some1 jus point me in the right direction ?
F LASHING RED AND o or G i jus firugred it out.. but ... im still fkd
i was tappin on the bottom of my box earlier on momntarily got it to boot it .. so i tried to run a game and it would only black screen so i went ahead an took mb out.. look at solder pts.. taped em up havent got blue light since.. even resldered em but yes i figured out the FRAG AND FRAO>> AND IM FRAG!! STILL is that good and SAVEABLE? i jus wanna boot once more to unlock the 250gb drive i put in jus prior to this fiasco
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 23, 2005, 04:20:00 AM
QUOTE(grifface @ Nov 23 2005, 08:00 PM)
i jus wanna boot once more to unlock the 250gb drive i put in jus prior to this fiasco
well im hoping you can unlock it.
if it is FRAGing, then you have a lot more chance at gettign ti working. try doing some searching for FRAG, and see if you can get some info on what you can do to fix it.
Post by: PimpleX on November 23, 2005, 10:59:00 AM
If the trannie has blown then putting 3.3volts to the pin 5 feed on the q7r1 is doubtful as well I think.
Unless you can just remove the trannie and run byoasses to the relavent pin pads if it's just acting as a type of fuse?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: hedbanger on November 24, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
any suggestions on that bitch?
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 25, 2005, 12:06:00 AM
QUOTE(hedbanger @ Nov 25 2005, 08:26 AM) 
which makes me believe the manufacture week theory.
the what now?
Post by: hedbanger on November 25, 2005, 01:31:00 AM
i got to grab some bc337s and try if the board works with them.
Post by: hedbanger on November 25, 2005, 11:13:00 AM
Post by: edbtz123 on November 25, 2005, 11:18:00 AM
Post by: edbtz123 on November 25, 2005, 12:25:00 PM
If pin 5 of the transistor (this is hooked up to the lower of the small two VIAs (holes) on the LPC) is 0 volts then pin 6 of the transistor (this is hooked up to pin 5 of the LPC) should be 0 Volts. If pin 5 of the transistor is 3.3 Volts then pin 6 should be pulled high to 3.3 Volts (in a V1.6 board the resistor that pulls this voltage high has been depopulated, im not sure why). If these votlages do not match your transistor is probably blown.
Disconnecting pin 6 of the transistor will pull the signal to 3.3 Volts like it should be, this may fix the problem. This basically bypasses the transistor logic.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 26, 2005, 12:54:00 AM
QUOTE(hedbanger @ Nov 25 2005, 06:02 PM)
Someone said that the 3rd symbol on the transistor shows the week its been built.
i dont think so. markings are usyally just to tell what tehy are, not when they are made
Post by: PimpleX on November 26, 2005, 05:17:00 AM
QUOTE(edbtz123 @ Nov 25 2005, 07:56 PM)
Ok guys I looked into it into further detail, I was confused that 3.3 Reset Voltage should be coming from pin 6 of the transistor which is an output to it (not an input as I previously thought, i thought that it was connected to pin 5 of the transistor which is an input). This makes a lot more sense now.
If pin 5 of the transistor (this is hooked up to the lower of the small two VIAs (holes) on the LPC) is 0 volts then pin 6 of the transistor (this is hooked up to pin 5 of the LPC) should be 0 Volts. If pin 5 of the transistor is 3.3 Volts then pin 6 should be pulled high to 3.3 Volts (in a V1.6 board the resistor that pulls this voltage high has been depopulated, im not sure why). If these votlages do not match your transistor is probably blown.
Disconnecting pin 6 of the transistor will pull the signal to 3.3 Volts like it should be, this may fix the problem. This basically bypasses the transistor logic.
Well done, I can confirm that you are correct and lifting pin (the leg) 6 on the on the Q7R1 pulls volts on LPC pin 5 back to 3.3V (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
That just leaves the LPC pin 1 LCLK which is still 0.0v instead of 0.2v otherwise all the volts are good.
On a 1.6 FRAO board it now FRAGs after doing the pin 6 leg lift. I have several other mobos that are FRAG boards but with classic Q7R1 symptoms of 0.2v on LPC pin 5 and 0.0v on LPC pin 1 though, I tried one of them as well and it pulls 3.3v on pin 5 but still FRAGs with 0.0v on pin 1.
So now we need a way of correcting the LPC pin 1 volts WITHOUT replacing the Q7R1 and we are home and dry I think .......That being said, I do have a motherboard with all correct LPC volts and that still FRAGs LOL!!
Replacing the Q7R1 usually corrects both pin 1 and pin 5 volts together (I'll try that on the FRAO 1.6 mentioned above and report back if it fixed it as this is the only FRAO board I've got now to verify if the Q7R1 actually fixes the FRAO problem or not...as long as there are no other problems with the board that is of course.)
EDIT: ...I just pulled off the Q7R1 and tried it naked (not me, the motherboard without the Q7R1!) and it's the same ...3.3v on LPC pin 5 and 0.0v on LPC pin 1. You sure we can't just use 1 trannie on the 3 Q1 pads instead?
(IMG:http://www.meltdown.fsnet.co.uk/pics/XBOX/q7r1pins.jpg)
Cheers,
PimpleX
This post has been edited by PimpleX: Nov 26 2005, 01:37 PM
Post by: PimpleX on November 26, 2005, 09:34:00 AM
I tried 2 used ones and 1 new one. If it isn't on right the board will FRAG because if pin 1 or 6 isn't making contact (doesn't matter which) then pin 5 gets 3.3v and pin 1 gets 0.0v (exactly the same as if it is removed entirely). If it's blown but all the pins are good then it will FRAO with 0.2v on LPC pin 5 and 0.0v on pin 1.
Hooking 0.2v up to pin 1 does nothing to help BTW if pin 5 has 3.3v as I tried that, even with a mod chip on it as it's some sort of logic signal probably comming FROM the MCPX and not a voltage required to go TO the MCPX. Pin 1 comes straight from the MCPX so that needs some more looking at.
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: hedbanger on November 26, 2005, 11:11:00 AM
Post by: hippo on November 26, 2005, 11:29:00 AM
Most the dead ones I can't fix are a problem on lad 1.
This post has been edited by hippo: Nov 26 2005, 07:42 PM
Post by: PimpleX on November 26, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
Hedbanger those fairchild BC637 may be easier to source so i'll look into getting some of them instead.... You got a photo or diagram of how you did yours?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: hedbanger on November 26, 2005, 01:41:00 PM
Post by: PimpleX on November 26, 2005, 03:18:00 PM
And what your LPC pin 5 and pin 1 volts are without it?
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on November 27, 2005, 04:09:00 PM
This has been confirmed on a 1.5 that is FRAOing due to what i assume is bad ram. Replacing the tranny did nothing, and grounding d0 without a chip connected resulted in frag (because it tries to load the bios before checking the ram, if the tranny or the mcpx were botched it wouldn't even get that far).
The board FRAO's most of the time, sometimes boots coma or locks up in the flubber, and even less often boots to the dash but freezes in less than 30 seconds. When it FRAO's Lckck is 0v and Lrst is 0.2V, but if it actually boots (coma, or actual flubber) the voltages are normal.
So IMO frag is that it cant load the bios for some reason, and frao is either circuitry related to Lclck and Lrst, or bad ram. Also these odd voltages may actually be the effects of frao not the cause.
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on November 27, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
I finished my 128mb mod yesterday and it booted up fine ,and ran perfectly for a few hours then started doing stupid stuff. I found a loose pin, and it worked again for a hour or two then started locking up and doing stupid stuff.
By this morning, it was stuck in its frao/coma/freezing flubber thing. Since I already checked all my loose pins I assumed the ram was bad.
I jsut resoldered EVERY pin and its back working again. I musta had one that was connected but barely and was an intermittant joint.
Lesson learned: Even if a 128mb box boots it doesn't mean there isn't a loose pin.
Post by: hedbanger on November 27, 2005, 04:31:00 PM
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on November 27, 2005, 06:47:00 PM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 27, 2005, 06:25:00 PM
QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Nov 28 2005, 12:18 PM)
yeah mine's all good now. I musta rebooted it 20-30 times so far, boots up every time. XBMC sees the 128mb, so does linux, dvd2xbox, etc. It's been running for baout 2 hours with no lockups
excellent. just out of intrest, where did you get the ram, and how much did it cost?
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on November 27, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
I used a heat gun to remove em
I also used my "ghetto hot air reflow" to replace the tsop on that 1.5 board, I bought the board on ebay as broken it jsut had a dead tsop. I chipped it as soon as i got it but then yesterday i was bored so i pulled the tsop and ram off that dead mobo and put it on there. I got really lucky and the tsop i used as a replacement was already reflashed! (isn't that a nice surprise, i was dreading getting raincoat running again)
You know ive got too many xbox parts if i cant remember if i tsop'ed a motherboard or not
This post has been edited by G0t M4xx 21: Nov 28 2005, 03:22 AM
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 27, 2005, 07:58:00 PM
QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Nov 28 2005, 12:44 PM)
You know ive got too many xbox parts if i cant remember if i tsop'ed a motherboard or not
well arnt you a lucky bugger then
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on November 28, 2005, 03:31:00 PM
I have 3 working complete xboxes, 5 dead motherboards, a gazillion stock unlocked hdd's, 5 or 6 working sammy dvd drives, and some cases, fans, PSU's and random stuff like that.
I'm looking to start an Ebay store so if anybody needs anything LMK
Also if anybody needs a specific part for a mobo (except ram, i hog those for myself), I have dead 1.0, 1.1, 1.4, and soon 1.6 boards to pull parts off of. Resistors and caps and regulators to video encoders, ethernet controller, etc.
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on November 29, 2005, 03:58:00 AM
QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Nov 29 2005, 09:38 AM)
Also if anybody needs a specific part for a mobo (except ram, i hog those for myself), I have dead 1.0, 1.1, 1.4, and soon 1.6 boards to pull parts off of. Resistors and caps and regulators to video encoders, ethernet controller, etc.
cool, ill keep that in mind thanks.
btw, nice to see you stucky my quote in your sig
cheers
Post by: PimpleX on November 29, 2005, 10:42:00 AM
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: hedbanger on November 29, 2005, 01:31:00 PM
Post by: PimpleX on November 29, 2005, 02:33:00 PM
I did a 1.6 but I think it has a bad cap by the xyclops as well so no joy, I did a 1.4 and a 1.0 again no joy on either. I did manage to fix a FRAO v1.0 as well but that was because the LPC pin 5 to Q7R1 link was broken, so I ran a bypass and away it went LOL...
Anyway, only another 15 to go LOL
If the next 5 are all the same then I'll get some bc639s and try them.I'm doing this BTW (just in case i's wrong):
pin 1 Emitter Q2 = ground emitter
pin 2 + 3 Base Q2 = base bc635 no2 / Collector Q1 = collector bc635 no 1
pin 4 Emitter Q1 = ground emitter
pin 5 Bass Q1 = bass bc635 no 1
pin 6 Collector Q2 = collector bc635 no 2
Cheers,
PimpleX
Post by: hedbanger on December 02, 2005, 12:33:00 AM
good luck!
Post by: ferrari_rulz_02 on December 02, 2005, 01:08:00 AM
QUOTE(hedbanger @ Dec 2 2005, 06:40 PM)
on my mobo someone else already fuxored around, and must´ve burnt it. the person somehow even removed the resistor above pin 2, which i had to replace from another mobo.
well they must have had fun with that baord.
trying a trannie that can handle 1a would be a good way to see if it is the current that is being pulled through there that is causing the problem.
but has anyoen stuck a mutipmeter in there and checked how much current is actually being drawn through that joint?
Post by: unspun01 on December 07, 2005, 11:05:00 PM
I bought a broken xbox on eBay (my first one ever, although I'm quite familiar with some of the technical aspects of the xbox). When it arrived, I immediately turned it on to see what was wrong with it. I got an Error 07 - HDD timeout. This was accompanied with red and green flashes from the eject button. The HDD made some clicking sounds and indicated it was probably bad.
I also thought this might be a problem from a former mod attempt (the case had been opened) and the previous owner told me nothing about this xbox. So I proceeded to open the xbox myself. I believed my xbox to be a v1.0 motherboard in a v1.6 case since the date was 2004-07-31 but the motherboard had a "Connexant" chip with a fan on some other heat sink chip and kernel 4034.
Anyway, believing this to be a former mod attempt, I looked for broken traces and found none. There was a set of header pins installed on the LPC, but I don't know if it was original or installed afterward - the install looked very good if it was aftermarket. I thought maybe there was a broken trace below the header pin thing that maybe I couldn't see, so I carefully desoldered the header pins and looked below it. no broken traces. Also, I might add, NO SOLDER SPLASHES anywhere.
While things were apart, I also took the DVD rom apart and cleaned it up. I put the whole system back together only to get the 1-2-3 attempt FRAO pattern that your guys described so well. And, you guessed it, NO VIDEO.
now what did I do? I have no idea. because now it will not do the xbox blob thing when you turn it on. With the HDD and DVD removed it still does the same thing - FRAO. After reading some of the posts, I tried this: with power off, I held a jumper wire between pin 15 (3.3V) and pin 5 (Rst) and then pressed the power button. behold, the xbox still doesn't do a damn thing (NO VIDEO), but the pattern now flashed red and green (FRAG). This leads me to believe that the q7r1 dual npn transistor chip is blown, since jumpering the pins gets it to 1-2-3-FRAG.
By the way, a few days later I received my 2nd xbox in the mail (a working one v1.0 kernel 4034, so basically the exact same xbox but in working order) My NVIDIA chip on the working xbox gets hot outputting video to the tv but the broken xbox is cool. Maybe the NVIDIA is not getting any power?
Sorry for the long post,
Just thought I'd share my story. Let me know what you think
unspun01
Post by: G0t M4xx 21 on December 11, 2005, 09:13:00 AM
I bought 2 broekn 1.6 boards, 2 unlocked hdd's, and a borken 1.6 PSU for $20 + $10 ship.
First 1.6 mobo: won't power up. Replace 2T transistor near Xyclops. Works! yay.
2nd 1.6 mobo: totally screwed up. Broken traces everywhere. I reconnected all the lifted pads (3 of the lads, and lframe), still frag.
I fnally discovered that LPC pin 5 was disconnected from Q7R1. Odd, the board Fragged, not FRAO, but whatever, I reconnected it.
What do you know? it works! So I got two perfectly good 1.6 mobos (one 1.6a and one 1.6b) and a PSU (I just had to repalce an IC on the supply) for 30 bucks.
So a busted trace from Q7R1 to the LPC can also cause a frag, not just frao.
Also, somebody was saying about how they removed the 100ohm pullup resistor for LRST on the 1.6? They didn't. It's just in a slightly different location, on the other side of Q7R1. The resistor is labeled R7R8 and it is much smaller.
Also I haven't been able to test this, but increasing the value of this pullup resistor should in theory reduce the current flow through Q7R1 when this tranny tries to pull LRST low. 100 ohms seems very low for a pullup resistor (considering the pullups for the Lad lines are 10K)
Post by: grifface on December 12, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
alas, i never thought when i started this fiasco i would need to do it again to another version mobo so i junked the stuff i wasn't gonna use (dumb) anyhow.. im gonna get another motherboard i just wonder if i have to buy a brand new chip assembly also ?
Post by: fisix on December 17, 2005, 07:21:00 PM
how many of you had bad transistors (board came back to life when it was exchanged) and also has solder work done on the board?
Post by: unspun01 on January 17, 2006, 11:15:00 PM
On Dec 7th I posted how I thought I caused my version 1.0 motherboard to FRAO.
To sum up, I had no audio and no video and the xbox would attempt to boot 3 times before finally resorting to FRAO........ Frustrating... I know.
Well, here is a solution for some of you with the same problem to try at home.
After countless hours scritinizing the motherboard with a magnifying glass, I noticed something very interesting on the RAM chip closest to the LPC........VERY TINY GAPS BETWEEN THE PINS ON MY RAM CHIP AND THE SOLDER PADS!!!!!!! I took my soldering iron and touched up every pin on that damn chip, and what do you know........... My motherboard booted up just fine. the xbox runs without any problems now..... well, at least for the few hours that I've run it so far. I'll update again after a more lengthly burn in test.....
This may be a problem for all of the RAM chips. If you know how to solder pretty good, I recommend touching up any RAM chip pin that is a suspected "cold solder joint"
Good Luck. I Hope to see some replies here from some of you, and whether this worked for you or not.
Later.
Post by: Titsca on February 14, 2006, 05:10:00 AM
QUOTE(G0t M4xx 21 @ Dec 11 2005, 01:20 PM)
Ah I got another 1.6 mobo in here the other day, some broken ones i bought off ebay.
I bought 2 broekn 1.6 boards, 2 unlocked hdd's, and a borken 1.6 PSU for $20 + $10 ship.
First 1.6 mobo: won't power up. Replace 2T transistor near Xyclops. Works! yay.
2nd 1.6 mobo: totally screwed up. Broken traces everywhere. I reconnected all the lifted pads (3 of the lads, and lframe), still frag.
I fnally discovered that LPC pin 5 was disconnected from Q7R1. Odd, the board Fragged, not FRAO, but whatever, I reconnected it.
What do you know? it works! So I got two perfectly good 1.6 mobos (one 1.6a and one 1.6b) and a PSU (I just had to repalce an IC on the supply) for 30 bucks.
So a busted trace from Q7R1 to the LPC can also cause a frag, not just frao.
Also, somebody was saying about how they removed the 100ohm pullup resistor for LRST on the 1.6? They didn't. It's just in a slightly different location, on the other side of Q7R1. The resistor is labeled R7R8 and it is much smaller.
Also I haven't been able to test this, but increasing the value of this pullup resistor should in theory reduce the current flow through Q7R1 when this tranny tries to pull LRST low. 100 ohms seems very low for a pullup resistor (considering the pullups for the Lad lines are 10K)
Anyone have a picture of location of this Q7R1 resistor? In this case i have to replace it? How to fix this issue? I think my xbox have this problem....
Post by: sga_MODZ on February 18, 2006, 07:21:00 AM
Post by: axemurderer on April 14, 2006, 11:01:00 PM
Ok, Here is my story...
I have a 1.4 or 1.5 xbox. I purchased this on ebay, so I dont have any history on it. I purchased it as broken. It was never opened when I got it. So i boot it up and voila.
I am having the same, Once, Twice, Third time I Frag problem.
I have been reading this post from the beginning. My eyes hurt and my ass is killing me.
I am by far no elronics dude at all.
I am just wondering if my problem is the same as discussed here with the failing trans and stuff. The only other info i can give you is, i put it in the freezer for about 4 minutes and booted it up no problem. It is the first time i saw the ms dash since i recieved this box.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Post by: UB6_IB9 on April 15, 2006, 09:26:00 PM
Post by: kingofxbx on June 17, 2006, 06:20:00 PM
I fixed my FRAO problem. The problem was that there was a solder ball connecting two of the memory legs.
After the solder was removed & the box was working fine. (Luckily the memory chip was not fried all this time I was turning on the box).
Post by: AeX on September 07, 2006, 09:51:00 AM
My box flashes red/orange after 2 reboots with green lights. That's Green - reboot - Green - reboot - Red/orange flash. It has 0.2V on LPT 5 and 0V on LPT 1.
If the AV cord is not plugged in/no DVD/no HDD then its Green/Red flash - reboot - Green/Red flash - reboot - Red/orange flash.
last time it worked i had xbmc with shoutcast on. After some time it locked up with a B/W screen.
After that its not booting anymore.
I tried the standard AV cable.
I have a 1.1 softmod xbox 80Gb IR Mod lg8163.
Can this be repaired or should i buy a new one?
This post has been edited by AeX: Sep 7 2006, 04:52 PM
Post by: unspun01 on January 04, 2007, 12:35:00 PM
If you are good at soldering, apply some rosin flux (NOT acid flux) to all pins of each RAM chip and reflow the solder for each pin on each chip using a 15-25W soldering iron. Each chip has about 100 pins so it could take some time, but I have not had a FRAO motherboard that I could not bring back to life using this technique.
Be sure to check with a magnifying glass for any solder bridges that you may create since this could cause your XBOX to exhibit even more strange behavior such as no power on, etc.
Regards.
Post by: DarkMatter on January 04, 2007, 02:53:00 PM
(IMG:http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/DarkMatter_photos/lpc2.jpg)
Regards,
DarkMatter