Print Page - Tutorial: Wilhelm's Improved X-clamp Replacement

Hello

,
The fact that some of my repaired 360s sooner or later ROD'd again was annoying me like most of the people on this forum.

Well but I had an idea.
I was wondering how you could apply even pressure on the GPU and I found a way...
The other X-Clamp replacements/Fixes only apply pressure on the center of the main chips(CPU/GPU), however the main problem is that they are reversing the effect that the X-Clamps had on the chips.
This flexing makes the fix less permanent and this flexing is one of the reasons why the fixes 360s often fail again sooner or later.
The solder balls are stressed and so they loose contact...

My fix applies pressure on the whole area of the chip not only the center, so all directions of the chip are taken under the same pressure and the solder balls stay connected.

I have been working on this for 5 months now and fixed quite a couple of 360s with it and they are all still working.
At this point Id also like to thank bosnia_9 who helped me with the testing...
I am confident that this fix will last way longer than the average of 1-3 months that the other fixes usually lasted.

I posted it on my own website that I am working on at the moment because the tutorial has a lot of pictures and the forums dont allow so many(there are around a 50 pictures ^^)
I hope this is not a problem...

It is also my duty to point out that 90% of this has been discovered by the fellow members of this forum like Lawdawg, RBJTech and others, I only improved it a bit, so thank you guys!

Here it is, I hope it will help you and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to send me a PM.

Wilhelm

Let me be the first to say, this technique works great! I had success with it and the xbox is holding up strong!

*knocks on wood*

I knew you had somethin brewin up when you said you had a different method of xclamp replacement

Looks good, hope it works well. very sound thinking on this one, obviously the height of the washers between heatsink and board is very crucial to prevent stressing the board. I always just trusted that the height of washers provided in kits was right, probably not a good assumption.

I have noticed that the nylon washers can compress a little under heat and pressure, do you guys have any thoughts on that? Maybe a ceramic or another more nondeforming, non cunducting material? Do they make anodized washers?

Cheers on the Tut

seems very nice...

I actually just did the usual x clamp replacement, also a little bit different from the usual turorials, but xbox is running fine now

I want to ask you, are you sure that my xbox will brake again in the next 3 months? aren't there xbox consoles that were fixed with the usual x clamp replacement and that are still running till this day?

QUOTE(badducky @ Aug 1 2008, 05:06 PM)

seems very nice...

I actually just did the usual x clamp replacement, also a little bit different from the usual turorials, but xbox is running fine now

I want to ask you, are you sure that my xbox will brake again in the next 3 months? aren't there xbox consoles that were fixed with the usual x clamp replacement and that are still running till this day?

Thats why I wrote "average", some worked only for a couple of minutes others worked for up to 4 months, a few havent broken up to this day.
There are also people who have got theirs running for over a year on here but I for myself had results that were a lot better than this since I am using it none of the 360s broke again...(well it has only been like 4 months but still better than what I experienced before I started fixing them like that)

What about hot glue? Put a little dollop on each corner. Hot glue is kinda easy to mold, even while dry, so the heatsink might be able to smash down on teh glue.

No wait. Clean off the die, then put some plops of hot glue on all sides, THEN, put a credit card and smash it down on top of the die. It will get the glue level with the die....let it dry and then twist the credit card off so it doesn't rip the glue off of the processor, clean the die again and then put some thermal paste on and put the heatsink on.

IDK. Who knows.

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 1 2008, 01:37 PM)

What about hot glue? Put a little dollop on each corner. Hot glue is kinda easy to mold, even while dry, so the heatsink might be able to smash down on teh glue.

No wait. Clean off the die, then put some plops of hot glue on all sides, THEN, put a credit card and smash it down on top of the die. It will get the glue level with the die....let it dry and then twist the credit card off so it doesn't rip the glue off of the processor, clean the die again and then put some thermal paste on and put the heatsink on.

IDK. Who knows.

if you use glue.. once it gets hot it will just start to melt again and become fluid...

You could try closed cell foam of some kind sort of like what they used on the old athlon xp cpu's , the small round foam rubber they had at the corners. It compresses and still applies pressure.
Just a thought.

QUOTE(card9 @ Aug 1 2008, 07:58 PM)

You could try closed cell foam of some kind sort of like what they used on the old athlon xp cpu's , the small round foam rubber they had at the corners. It compresses and still applies pressure.
Just a thought.

Ye but the problem with the material is that you want even pressure on the whole chip and since the chip die is solid you have to use something that is as solid as possible like the creditcard pieces(only like steel or so would be better)
Otherwise the outer solder balls will get less pressure and your risk that these get loose because the overall pressure is uneven again

The problem I see using your method is you run the risk of holding the heatsink off the die if the material you use is slightly thicker than the die height and doesn't compress at all. At the other end of the spectrum if it applies to much pressure to the substrate you can crush the solder balls causing shorts. I like the idea of even pressure on the entire package, though it would be interesting to know what the spec is for the heatsink clamping pressure for these BGA's are.
Hope it works out for you.

QUOTE(card9 @ Aug 1 2008, 08:48 PM)

The problem I see using your method is you run the risk of holding the heatsink off the die if the material you use is slightly thicker than the die height and doesn't compress at all. At the other end of the spectrum if it applies to much pressure to the substrate you can crush the solder balls causing shorts. I like the idea of even pressure on the entire package, though it would be interesting to know what the spec is for the heatsink clamping pressure for these BGA's are.
Hope it works out for you.

Ye thats why you have to use credit card pieces they have got the perfect height, they are just slightly lower that the die so it has good contact with the heatsink...
The thing about the pressure is right, thats the reason why you are only supposed to tighten it as much as necessary like computer tight otherwise the board will flex and it would be too much pressure for the solder balls as well.
You can still tighten them if it is not enough

I still see that the credit card pieces aren't going to get enough pressure, or hold the heatsink off of the die. I think that something like foam would be the best bet...idk.

hi.

i assume this is the new tutorial bosnia has been telling me about? if so it looks great.

i have one question to start off with.

in step 7 of the tutorial you said:

QUOTE

If you also want to cool the RAM under the GPU heatsink apply some thermal compound and install a metal washer on each.

now i assume the metal washer will help transfer the heat from the ram chip to the GPU heatsink .. correct?
i did see the picture you put up and it does have the washers on the ram chips but for some reason this is simply not sinking in my head and its just giving me a headache.
also this will cause about 10% or so more heat for the gpu heatsink. no?

now for the second part. the small credit card snips .. i laughed when i saw this.. not bad laught but a laugh like oh my god is this safe to do?

i guess tape is better than glue

overall. wonderful tutorial.

by the way can you make a video and put it on youtube of this?
if not i am thinking of doing one. full credit goes to you of course for this wonderful tutorial!

great job, Wilhelm_I

This post has been edited by cylent: Aug 1 2008, 09:20 PM

Nice tutorial man.

I've been using RBJTech's MKI method for some time now and it's been working flawlessly.
Your method is a great improvement over the previous methods.

As you may already know MKI prevents flexing (because it uses a washer+deep nut under the board).
It's been for sometime that guys here give me their boxes to do the x-clamp replacement for them and they pay me for my service. I would like the job done in the very best way. That's the reason I go for the difficault and time consuming MKI method. Some of these boxes were already repaired with Lawdawg's method but RRoDed again after about a month.
About a month ago I did my first fix (for my own box) and it's been working great with no single issue.

So that's the reason I want to use a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method.
This even pressure on the chip is a nice idea. I bet it reduces the time I spend for playing with the tension of the screws.
So here I've got some questions:
1) How thick is the credit/phone card? You don't wanna know how thick they are in my country!

2) That taping thing really bugs me. Cause it gets dirty and dusty over time and if some day someone wants to redo the job it would be difficault removing those tapes. Is there any other thing we could do?
3) How long have the boxes you fixed with this method worked for you?
4) What if I use a shim? Cause some boxes are just retard

and they really need a shim to work. How should I apply even pressure on the chip?
5) Why using 2mm x 2mm pieces of the card? Why not using a 2mm x length/width of the chip so that the whole sides of the chip gets even pressure? This way a single drop of the glue would suffice and they sit in their places with the heatsink on top of them.
Was there a specific reason that you used small pieces?

6) Any results for combining this method with RBJTech's rather than Lawdawg's? Just curious...

That's it for now.
Again thanks for doing the community a service and finding new fixes.
Cheers!

Quote
"Ye thats why you have to use credit card pieces they have got the perfect height, they are just slightly lower that the die so it has good contact with the heatsink..."

This statement seems to be contradictory, if the credit card pieces are lower than the dies how are they applying pressure? It would imply your warping the BGA to cause them to move up into contact with the heatsink. Maybe I'm not reading this right.

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 1 2008, 10:45 PM)

hi.

i assume this is the new tutorial bosnia has been telling me about? if so it looks great.

i have one question to start off with.

in step 7 of the tutorial you said:

now i assume the metal washer will help transfer the heat from the ram chip to the GPU heatsink .. correct?
i did see the picture you put up and it does have the washers on the ram chips but for some reason this is simply not sinking in my head and its just giving me a headache.
also this will cause about 10% or so more heat for the gpu heatsink. no?

now for the second part. the small credit card snips .. i laughed when i saw this.. not bad laught but a laugh like oh my god is this safe to do?

i guess tape is better than glue

overall. wonderful tutorial.

by the way can you make a video and put it on youtube of this?
if not i am thinking of doing one. full credit goes to you of course for this wonderful tutorial!

great job, Wilhelm_I

Ye it will transfer the heat an in addition it will also put the RAM bricks under pressure so there is a 25% percentage you are preventing/fixing an 0110

Actually, I dont think I am making a video of it, it was already a pain in the arse taking all the pictures

It would be pretty cool of you if you would do that

Maybe you will finally fix your first 360 succesfully with this method lol

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 1 2008, 10:55 PM)

Nice tutorial man.

I've been using RBJTech's MKI method for some time now and it's been working flawlessly.
Your method is a great improvement over the previous methods.

As you may already know MKI prevents flexing (because it uses a washer+deep nut under the board).
It's been for sometime that guys here give me their boxes to do the x-clamp replacement for them and they pay me for my service. I would like the job done in the very best way. That's the reason I go for the difficault and time consuming MKI method. Some of these boxes were already repaired with Lawdawg's method but RRoDed again after about a month.
About a month ago I did my first fix (for my own box) and it's been working great with no single issue.

So that's the reason I want to use a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method.
This even pressure on the chip is a nice idea. I bet it reduces the time I spend for playing with the tension of the screws.
So here I've got some questions:
1) How thick is the credit/phone card? You don't wanna know how thick they are in my country!

2) That taping thing really bugs me. Cause it gets dirty and dusty over time and if some day someone wants to redo the job it would be difficault removing those tapes. Is there any other thing we could do?
3) How long have the boxes you fixed with this method worked for you?
4) What if I use a shim? Cause some boxes are just retard

and they really need a shim to work. How should I apply even pressure on the chip?
5) Why using 2mm x 2mm pieces of the card? Why not using a 2mm x length/width of the chip so that the whole sides of the chip gets even pressure? This way a single drop of the glue would suffice and they sit in their places with the heatsink on top of them.
Was there a specific reason that you used small pieces?

6) Any results for combining this method with RBJTech's rather than Lawdawg's? Just curious...

That's it for now.
Again thanks for doing the community a service and finding new fixes.
Cheers!

Ye thats kind of what I experienced as well, I only used Lawdawgs before and I got similar results as I said earlier...
I have never tried RBJTechs because I have been using this one succesfully so I didnt even have to look into that.

1) Well it is pretty difficult to measure but I just put a washer beside it and as it is a little bit thinner it looks like ~0.8mm to me, my VISA card has got the same height as the one I have been using as well.
2) Thats the reason why I used "Tesa" tape, it is transparent and doesnt leave any residue when you remove it(dont know how you call it over there but Tesa is the company that makes this kind of tape)
3) So far I cannot tell how long it will work but as I said, I have been using it for 5 months and I fixed about 15 xboxes with it and none has gone back to the ROD since then, not even the 0022s that have been a pain in the arse with Lawdawgs(had one that broke like 3 times again within a couple of days(might also have been the heatgunning though)
4) Hmmm I never had to use a shim before so I guess you will have to find a way to increase the height of the credit card pieces, maybe you can cut pieces out of the shim and put them on top of the credit card pieces
5) There is only one specific reason for that besides that bigger squares wouldnt fit anymore. There are also resistors in the way and other things, for example the second smaller die of the GPU so you couldnt make it even.
Increasing the size of the credit card pieces could be a good idea though because it would provide even more even pressure to the chip, if you do it right...
6) As I said I never tried RBJTechs but it might improve this one even more so it would be nice if you could try it

QUOTE(card9 @ Aug 1 2008, 11:15 PM)

Quote
"Ye thats why you have to use credit card pieces they have got the perfect height, they are just slightly lower that the die so it has good contact with the heatsink..."

This statement seems to be contradictory, if the credit card pieces are lower than the dies how are they applying pressure? It would imply your warping the BGA to cause them to move up into contact with the heatsink. Maybe I'm not reading this right.

The Heatsink always slightly warps when you tighten the screws, if this would not be true the second die of the GPU would cause every 360 to overheat because it is like 0.2mm lower than the main one as well...
Thats the reason why the heatsink puts them under pressure...

quick question.

for a newly bought system (elite falcon) would you recommend i do this modification OR play the hell out of it and do this IF it breaks?

Let me get this straight the aluminum heatsink warps and the resin motherboard stays flat?
Unless the physical properties of each have done a 360 and the motherboard is stronger than the heatsink I seriously doubt that.
But perhaps you know more about this than I.

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 12:09 AM)

quick question.

for a newly bought system (elite falcon) would you recommend i do this modification OR play the hell out of it and do this IF it breaks?

If you do it then before turning on even once so that you really got a virgin 360 with 100% intact solder balls(well a 100% is impossible thanks to the x-clamps, I know but it is as close as possible...)
The earlier you do it the better otherwise you risk doing more damage to it than good...
I have done it to my own as well but like 6 months after buying it lol
Have used lawdawgs and the thing showed me the first 0102 like 2 months ago.
I opened it up but since I had no time I only adjusted the tightness of the screws which didnt work out(drilled holes through the case so it was easy)
So I was pissed and went out.
The next day it worked again.
Since then it didnt freeze anymore and neither show the ROD which is still surprising me...
I really hope it stays like that because I got a lot of LEDs in there and soldered quite couple of wires to the mainboard(guess now you understand why I am not willed to fix it lol)
It is an early 2006er 360 so I am kind of proud that it lasted 2 years already

In case you dont want to mod the 360 just stick to your warranty though it is the best preventive measure against the ROD since they will repair it for you...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 02:20 AM)

If you do it then before turning on even once so that you really got a virgin 360 with 100% intact solder balls(well a 100% is impossible thanks to the x-clamps, I know but it is as close as possible...)
The earlier you do it the better otherwise you risk doing more damage to it than good...
I have done it to my own as well but like 6 months after buying it lol
Have used lawdawgs and the thing showed me the first 0102 like 2 months ago.
I opened it up but since I had no time I only adjusted the tightness of the screws which didnt work out(drilled holes through the case so it was easy)
So I was pissed and went out.
The next day it worked again.
Since then it didnt freeze anymore and neither show the ROD which is still surprising me...
I really hope it stays like that because I got a lot of LEDs in there and soldered quite couple of wires to the mainboard(guess now you understand why I am not willed to fix it lol)
It is an early 2006er 360 so I am kind of proud that it lasted 2 years already

In case you dont want to mod the 360 just stick to your warranty though it is the best preventive measure against the ROD since they will repair it for you...

there aint exactly no warranty sticker anymore cause i ripped it off to update the drive firmware. i am currently in baghdad and there are 0 original games. its all copies sold for $2 dollars.

off topic -- ((i'll be honest. if i wanted to buy original games for $60+ a pop i would have gone with the PS3. no hell like the xbox hell.))

the system has been on a few times. its not a virgin anymore.

i am a bit hesitant since i shelled out a pretty dollar (cost me about $570) and i am even afraid to even play any games on it considering my luck with the last two boards (but those were used and repaired anyways so i guess i shouldnt be that freaked out).

i can do everything just fine but i am honestly not comfortable with the credit card snippets. they are (1) very hard to cut out and (2) make me feel like they are gonna make the cpu "jump up in the center"

also, what about raising the fan power to 12v?

This post has been edited by cylent: Aug 1 2008, 10:56 PM

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 12:30 AM)

there aint exactly no warranty sticker anymore cause i ripped it off to update the drive firmware. i am currently in baghdad and there are 0 original games. its all copies sold for $2 dollars.

off topic -- ((i'll be honest. if i wanted to buy original games for $60+ a pop i would have gone with the PS3. no hell like the xbox hell.))

the system has been on a few times. its not a virgin anymore.

Hmm
I am sorry but I guess you just digged yourself a grave dude...
If you had read the rules you would know that piracy is clearly against xbox-scene's rules and you can get banned for it.
You better pray that the moderator will only suspend you for a couple of days...
The fact that there is no place where you can buy originals might save you from the ban but in general there is zero tolerance for this topic...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 03:02 AM)

Hmm
I am sorry but I guess you just digged yourself a grave dude...
If you had read the rules you would know that piracy is clearly against xbox-scene's rules and you can get banned for it.
You better pray that the moderator will only suspend you for a couple of days...
The fact that there is no place where you can buy originals might save you from the ban but in general there is zero tolerance for this topic...

ya well i know what i typed so i am not exactly freaking out here cause there really aint no place you can buy originals here! simply non-existant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This post has been edited by cylent: Aug 1 2008, 11:30 PM

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 01:04 AM)

ya well i know what i typed so i am not exactly freaking out here cause there really aint no place you can buy originals here! simply non-existant.

Stays piracy though

60$ is kind of cheap though where I am we pay around a 100$ for a game

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 1 2008, 08:07 PM)

Stays piracy though

60$ is kind of cheap though where I am we pay around a 100$ for a game

You should download the games and send the companies 60 bucks.

Just kidding!

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 2 2008, 04:17 AM)

You should download the games and send the companies 60 bucks.

Just kidding!

Would be quite funny when they get the check and a notice, I just downloaded your game and it is great!

PS: It is just a joke, I get my games legally...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 01:24 AM)

Ye thats kind of what I experienced as well, I only used Lawdawgs before and I got similar results as I said earlier...
I have never tried RBJTechs because I have been using this one succesfully so I didnt even have to look into that.

1) Well it is pretty difficult to measure but I just put a washer beside it and as it is a little bit thinner it looks like ~0.8mm to me, my VISA card has got the same height as the one I have been using as well.
2) Thats the reason why I used "Tesa" tape, it is transparent and doesnt leave any residue when you remove it(dont know how you call it over there but Tesa is the company that makes this kind of tape)
3) So far I cannot tell how long it will work but as I said, I have been using it for 5 months and I fixed about 15 xboxes with it and none has gone back to the ROD since then, not even the 0022s that have been a pain in the arse with Lawdawgs(had one that broke like 3 times again within a couple of days(might also have been the heatgunning though)
4) Hmmm I never had to use a shim before so I guess you will have to find a way to increase the height of the credit card pieces, maybe you can cut pieces out of the shim and put them on top of the credit card pieces
5) There is only one specific reason for that besides that bigger squares wouldnt fit anymore. There are also resistors in the way and other things, for example the second smaller die of the GPU so you couldnt make it even.
Increasing the size of the credit card pieces could be a good idea though because it would provide even more even pressure to the chip, if you do it right...
6) As I said I never tried RBJTechs but it might improve this one even more so it would be nice if you could try it

1) Well I assume you could messure the thickness of the card with a caliper (if you have one of course!!)
2) *Sight*! Unfortunately I live in Iran and all of the products here are made from 100% Sh*tty matterials so the tapes leave good traces on the board... . And that's why I want to prevent using them.
3) Now that's some good results. IE if none of the boxes have failed since.
4) There's something else about the shim. It helps pressuring the chip evenly but not the whole chip. Just the area between the main core and the daughter core. Cutting the shim and putting it on the card pieces is not a good idea! It requires even more taping over the board!

5) Yeah! I like that! Bigger pieces = better and more even pressure on the board. I still think a well messured foam or something will do the trick better. IE first messuring the height of the core then finding a good piece of foam that when it is pressed enough it could shrink to the height of the core and the more it is pressed the higher the pressure it could transfer to the chip.
6) OK! I'll see what I can do... There is another broken XBox which is waiting to be repaired and I'll be getting that within a few days. Still I have to find a card with the correct thickness.

Man there is some problem in all the X-Clamp replacement tutorials. I think we need to put something under the board (under the chip on the other side of the board to be exact) to unflex the board in there too. Cause with these credit card pieces we are flexing the board under the chip a little (because of the pressure) Am I right? Now I think it might have some long term side effects.
Is there anything we could do about it?
Again thanks for your response in advance.
Hope you could improve the fixing methods even more!

@cylent:
WOW! Illegal copies for 2$?! Though here we could easily find original games but you could still get some illegal copies here if you really want for almost 6$! But piracy is not good (though I know that you can't find any originals in there

)

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 2 2008, 02:37 PM)

Man there is some problem in all the X-Clamp replacement tutorials. I think we need to put something under the board (under the chip on the other side of the board to be exact) to unflex the board in there too. Cause with these credit card pieces we are flexing the board under the chip a little (because of the pressure) Am I right? Now I think it might have some long term side effects.
Is there anything we could do about it?
Again thanks for your response in advance.
Hope you could improve the fixing methods even more!

Ye I have thought about this one as well and tried some stuff but I couldnt find something that had the correct thickness for that and as most components under the mainboard have different heights it will still result in some flexing....
If you dont screw it in too tight there is nearly no flexing with the credit card pieces, it is as close to no flexing as you can be.
The pressure is shared up on a bigger area, not only the chip dies...
You just cant eliminate it completely as there is pressure and heat there will always be slight flexing...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 04:54 PM)

Ye I have thought about this one as well and tried some stuff but I couldnt find something that had the correct thickness for that and as most components under the mainboard have different heights it will still result in some flexing....
If you dont screw it in too tight there is nearly no flexing with the credit card pieces, it is as close to no flexing as you can be.
The pressure is shared up on a bigger area, not only the chip dies...
You just cant eliminate it completely as there is pressure and heat there will always be slight flexing...

I usually don't snug the screws real tight. I do this with MKI method:
First I tight them so I see that the spring washers are crushed flat. Then I usually see some 0020. Then I loosen the screws till I get 0102. Then I loosen them a bit more till I see some green lights! (The weird thing is this has worked for all 3 boxes that I have fixed and I have no idea why it does! Sometimes I hear a ticking noise while loosening the screws) Then I tighten the screws till I see some problems in the screen (freezing, artifacts, etc) then the job's done! I close the box and test it for a few hours to a few days.
So this way I'm kind of sure the board ain't flexing in no way.
But for this purpose a foam will do the trick too i think. But the problem is that underneath the chip the heat will be trapped!

I don't know what else could do the trick...

BTW for MKI method, I have never used any overheating, baking or what so ever. I just fixed the box with pressuring on the chip only. Could this be the main reason that most boxes fixed with Lawdawg's fail after a while?
This issue is solved in your method I guess. Cause you are likely fixing the box with pressure rather than the heat. Now tell me this:
Did all of the boxes that you fixed with your own method require overheating AFTER the x-clamp replacement? AFAIK you do the heatgun method before the fix too so it just reflows bad connections.
Also one other question:
Aside from the 0022 errors, what are some of the other errors that you had with previously semi-fixed boxes? I mean those that you fixed only with Lawdawg's? And which step in your tutorial prevents them?

Sorry that I'm asking so many questions but the thing is, I would really like to do a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method and I want to prevent other errors to show up and see the progress with the first (for example 0102) error.

awesome...cooll

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 2 2008, 07:35 PM)

I usually don't snug the screws real tight. I do this with MKI method:
First I tight them so I see that the spring washers are crushed flat. Then I usually see some 0020. Then I loosen the screws till I get 0102. Then I loosen them a bit more till I see some green lights! (The weird thing is this has worked for all 3 boxes that I have fixed and I have no idea why it does! Sometimes I hear a ticking noise while loosening the screws) Then I tighten the screws till I see some problems in the screen (freezing, artifacts, etc) then the job's done! I close the box and test it for a few hours to a few days.
So this way I'm kind of sure the board ain't flexing in no way.
But for this purpose a foam will do the trick too i think. But the problem is that underneath the chip the heat will be trapped!

I don't know what else could do the trick...

BTW for MKI method, I have never used any overheating, baking or what so ever. I just fixed the box with pressuring on the chip only. Could this be the main reason that most boxes fixed with Lawdawg's fail after a while?
This issue is solved in your method I guess. Cause you are likely fixing the box with pressure rather than the heat. Now tell me this:
Did all of the boxes that you fixed with your own method require overheating AFTER the x-clamp replacement? AFAIK you do the heatgun method before the fix too so it just reflows bad connections.
Also one other question:
Aside from the 0022 errors, what are some of the other errors that you had with previously semi-fixed boxes? I mean those that you fixed only with Lawdawg's? And which step in your tutorial prevents them?

Sorry that I'm asking so many questions but the thing is, I would really like to do a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method and I want to prevent other errors to show up and see the progress with the first (for example 0102) error.

I could only get the 0022 I had back then to work with overheating if I remember right but I didnt have to use it that often, sometimes did when the RODs returned I guess.
The overheating is the most stupid thing you can do in my opinion, it is just a bandaid if it doesnt work because of the pressure already this will only make it work temporarily.
If you think you have to overheat it then use a heatgun and reflow the solder properly.

I never used overheating with my method anymore.
If it is a 360 that has been attempted to be fixed like on Ebay(it is unbelievable what people tried to fix it, I even had one that was full of oil, like some thick black stuff or like mainboards that were literally burned

), then I usually heatgun it before just to make sure everything is connected properly...
I also do this in general for 360s that already have the X-Clamps replaced because most retards screw it in so tight that the mainboard bends extremely...

I only fixed like 5 360s or so before that(mainly for mates and family), the error codes were just the usual ones like 0020 0102 and 0022.
The reason why 0022s ,E74s(1022), 0021s and E73s(1021) can be fixed better with this method is simple.
These errors are mainly related to the outer solder balls of the GPU and because of the credit card pieces which take the out side of the chip under pressure as well these are also reconnected.
0022 is a bridged solder joint/E74(1022) cold solder joint under the scaler-chip/GPU traces that lead to it, so the upper part of the GPU.
0021 is a bridged solder joint/E73(1021) cold solder joint under the Southbridge/GPU traces that lead to it, so the left part of the GPU.

0102 is the one that is the easiest to fix, 0020 can be a bit harder to fix(still easier than the other 002*s though) because the solderballs under the GPU/RAM are shorting out then...

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 02:30 AM)

....

also, what about raising the fan power to 12v?

never got an answer for that one...

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 08:43 PM)

never got an answer for that one...

Is a good idea, thought this was clear lol.
12volting the fans is a good idea in general because it helps temperatures...

i found it amazingly difficult cutting the 2x2mm pieces of credit card. anyone else ?

also in this picture i noticed you didnt have any washers on the bottom of the board. just the screw.
i thought you had to have at least nylon washers on the bottom and front to avoid shortening the board?

http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/pics/mobo_schema_en_b.jpg

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 11:57 PM)

i found it amazingly difficult cutting the 2x2mm pieces of credit card. anyone else ?

also in this picture i noticed you didnt have any washers on the bottom of the board. just the screw.
i thought you had to have at least nylon washers on the bottom and front to avoid shortening the board?

http://xe.brothersof...schema_en_b.jpg

Cutting the 15 2x2mm squares takes me about 15 seconds approximately, it must not be exactly 2x2mm...

If you had read the little text above the picture you would have noticed that I said that the no washer at all solution is for the people who cant/dont want to drill holes through their case for the heads of the screws.
However it is recommended to use spring/metal washers to share the pressure up to a greater area of the metal case.
As the gap in between mainboard and metal case is too big then the mainboard will flex though and thats why you have to drill these holes.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 3 2008, 03:58 AM)

Cutting the 15 2x2mm squares takes me about 15 seconds approximately, it must not be exactly 2x2mm...

If you had read the little text above the picture you would have noticed that I said that the no washer at all solution is for the people who cant/dont want to drill holes through their case for the heads of the screws.
However it is recommended to use spring/metal washers to share the pressure up to a greater area of the metal case.
As the gap in between mainboard and metal case is too big then the mainboard will flex though and thats why you have to drill these holes.

on the tutorial page i cant find any text anywhere that says what you just typed above.
to be frank. i dont understand what you are saying. i do not want to drill holes in my metal case so now ... washers or no washers????

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 2 2008, 08:10 PM)

on the tutorial page i cant find any text anywhere that says what you just typed above.
to be frank. i dont understand what you are saying. i do not want to drill holes in my metal case so now ... washers or no washers????

what hes saying is if you use washers.. your board will get lifted and once you start screwing it down to the case you will flex/bend the board so basically the x clamp replacement is useless..

But if you cut the holes in the casing, then your screws fall through there and eleminate the gap caused by the screws.. which lift the board up. So in this case your board ends up sitting flat and even.

But it also depends on the kind of screws you have, if their flat head you wont have the bending/flexing problem but if you have pan head (round/oval) they they raise your motherboard up a bit.

In my case i had oval/round headed screws so i just used no metal washers in my setup

Its all the same thing.

Im gonna tell you this again, your main goal is to keep the motherboard leveled on the casing and not bend/flex it. And achieve good contact on the chips with the heatsinks. So if you have to drill holes or no holes try and get the motherboard to sit level.

Do you understand that?

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 3 2008, 03:00 AM)

what hes saying is if you use washers.. your board will get lifted and once you start screwing it down to the case you will flex/bend the board so basically the x clamp replacement is useless..

But if you cut the holes in the casing, then your screws fall through there and eleminate the gap caused by the screws.. which lift the board up. So in this case your board ends up sitting flat and even.

But it also depends on the kind of screws you have, if their flat head you wont have the bending/flexing problem but if you have pan head (round/oval) they they raise your motherboard up a bit.

In my case i had oval/round headed screws so i just used no metal washers in my setup

Its all the same thing.

Im gonna tell you this again, your main goal is to keep the motherboard leveled on the casing and not bend/flex it. And achieve good contact on the chips with the heatsinks. So if you have to drill holes or no holes try and get the motherboard to sit level.
Do you understand that?

Yep thats what I was trying to say...
Thanks mate.

*EDIT*
And this was the excerpt from the tutorial I was referring to...
Guess I will update that on Monday to prevent misunderstandings...

QUOTE

10) Now fasten the heatsinks with the screws and washers like shown in the schematics below.
Only tighten the screws as much as necessary(only snug so that the heatsinks dont move), otherwise you risk that the mainboard flexes too much and another problem returns later even if you fixed the actual problem.

You can also use spring washers or metal washers additionally in between the screw and the mainboard but then you have to drill holes through the case otherwise the mainboard wont fit in the case properly(how to do this is explained below...)

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 3 2008, 05:00 AM)

what hes saying is if you use washers.. your board will get lifted and once you start screwing it down to the case you will flex/bend the board so basically the x clamp replacement is useless..

i have read everywhere that you're supposed to use a rubber/nylon washer on both sides of the screw so you dont short out the motherboard.
people usually just copy each other without verification so here i am asking this:
if i dont use a rubber/nylon washer on the bottom side and only on the top will the board short or not?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 12:13 AM)

Would also be nice if a moderator could add it to the Stickies...

done, its posted in the X-Clamp replacement success thread here

i would also suggest not to apply the thermal paste directly to the die, it should be applied to the heatsinks first.

otherwise, very nice work. cant wait to test it out

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 09:02 AM)

Hmm
I am sorry but I guess you just digged yourself a grave dude...
If you had read the rules you would know that piracy is clearly against xbox-scene's rules and you can get banned for it.
You better pray that the moderator will only suspend you for a couple of days...
The fact that there is no place where you can buy originals might save you from the ban but in general there is zero tolerance for this topic...

dealt with

Piracy is not tolerated here AT ALL, and will not be given any special treatment due to status/job/location/circumstances.

QUOTE(cylent @ Aug 3 2008, 10:24 AM)

i have read everywhere that you're supposed to use a rubber/nylon washer on both sides of the screw so you dont short out the motherboard.
people usually just copy each other without verification so here i am asking this:
if i dont use a rubber/nylon washer on the bottom side and only on the top will the board short or not?

If you dont use any you are grounding the heatsink, this pretty much doesnt make a difference though because there is only 1 point where this heatsink can short something out and since it does that no matter if it is grounded or not, you should be able to use metal washers only....
Please correct me if I am wrong here...

QUOTE

done, its posted in the X-Clamp replacement success thread here

i would also suggest not to apply the thermal paste directly to the die, it should be applied to the heatsinks first.

otherwise, very nice work. cant wait to test it out

Thank you very much.
I never applied it to the heatsink because I never know where the chip dies are exactly but if this works better I will give it a go next time, thanks for the tip.

QUOTE

dealt with

Piracy is not tolerated here AT ALL, and will not be given any special treatment due to status/job/location/circumstances.

Thought so

Looks like cylent is gonna be silent for a while then lol

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 3 2008, 07:53 PM)

If you dont use any you are grounding the heatsink, this pretty much doesnt make a difference though because there is only 1 point where this heatsink can short something out and since it does that no matter if it is grounded or not, you should be able to use metal washers only....
Please correct me if I am wrong here...

its fine to only use metal washers. nylon ones are prefered as they compress and wont cause the heatsink to short anything out. i cant find any nylon washers locally so i just use metal washers

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 3 2008, 07:53 PM)

I never applied it to the heatsink because I never know where the chip dies are exactly but if this works better I will give it a go next time, thanks for the tip.

what i do is apply a small bit to the heatsink in the place where i think it is, spread it out so its thin then place the heatsink on the cpu/gpu and apply a bit of pressure then remove. the die will leave an imprint on the heatsinks thermal compund and you will also see where it is on the die itself. then you can just adjust where its not making contact

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 2 2008, 10:11 PM)

I could only get the 0022 I had back then to work with overheating if I remember right but I didnt have to use it that often, sometimes did when the RODs returned I guess.
The overheating is the most stupid thing you can do in my opinion, it is just a bandaid if it doesnt work because of the pressure already this will only make it work temporarily.
If you think you have to overheat it then use a heatgun and reflow the solder properly.

I never used overheating with my method anymore.
If it is a 360 that has been attempted to be fixed like on Ebay(it is unbelievable what people tried to fix it, I even had one that was full of oil, like some thick black stuff or like mainboards that were literally burned

), then I usually heatgun it before just to make sure everything is connected properly...
I also do this in general for 360s that already have the X-Clamps replaced because most retards screw it in so tight that the mainboard bends extremely...

I only fixed like 5 360s or so before that(mainly for mates and family), the error codes were just the usual ones like 0020 0102 and 0022.
The reason why 0022s ,E74s(1022), 0021s and E73s(1021) can be fixed better with this method is simple.
These errors are mainly related to the outer solder balls of the GPU and because of the credit card pieces which take the out side of the chip under pressure as well these are also reconnected.
0022 is a bridged solder joint/E74(1022) cold solder joint under the scaler-chip/GPU traces that lead to it, so the upper part of the GPU.
0021 is a bridged solder joint/E73(1021) cold solder joint under the Southbridge/GPU traces that lead to it, so the left part of the GPU.

0102 is the one that is the easiest to fix, 0020 can be a bit harder to fix(still easier than the other 002*s though) because the solderballs under the GPU/RAM are shorting out then...

Thanks bro! You are the man! Now I know all about these errors more than I used to.
I'm waiting to get another craped box and get it repaired with a hybrid of these methods.
I'll post the results then.

QUOTE(scuba156 @ Aug 3 2008, 12:22 PM)

its fine to only use metal washers. nylon ones are prefered as they compress and wont cause the heatsink to short anything out. i cant find any nylon washers locally so i just use metal washers
what i do is apply a small bit to the heatsink in the place where i think it is, spread it out so its thin then place the heatsink on the cpu/gpu and apply a bit of pressure then remove. the die will leave an imprint on the heatsinks thermal compund and you will also see where it is on the die itself. then you can just adjust where its not making contact

Ye I will try this next time.

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 3 2008, 02:25 PM)

Thanks bro! You are the man! Now I know all about these errors more than I used to.
I'm waiting to get another craped box and get it repaired with a hybrid of these methods.
I'll post the results then.

Ye I am working on some kind of user driven error code database but I am still waiting for twisted symphony's reply if I have the permission to use excerpts from the guide on here...
It will offer possible fixes etc...

If you could get a hold of some of the foam pads that AMD used to put on the Athlon processors, that would be ideal for what you're trying to do with the credit card pieces. If you have an old Athlon processor you could just slice them off with a razor

QUOTE(brandogg @ Aug 3 2008, 05:49 PM)

If you could get a hold of some of the foam pads that AMD used to put on the Athlon processors, that would be ideal for what you're trying to do with the credit card pieces. If you have an old Athlon processor you could just slice them off with a razor

Oh man! Nice idea! I've got two of them I think!!! Cause my CPU is Athlon 64 and I've had it since 5 years ago or something. I'll see if I can find the pieces!

Ah... Power shortage again! This is the second time today. Now I'm using my cell phone so I can't edit my previous post.

Guys I found those cpu foams and messured its thickness with my vernier caliper. It's not good enough. It is too soft. The thickness values are:
3.2mm when normal.
0.5mm when pressed not so tightly.
Considering that Whilhelm said the card pieces are 0.8 mm thick then these foams won't do the trick.
While messuring I saw that my caliper's case had some thick foam that could do the trick well but anyway I need those foams in there... Got to see what else I could find.

Edit: wtf? Now I can edit my post? What the hell is wrong?

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 3 2008, 08:21 PM)

Ah... Power shortage again! This is the second time today. Now I'm using my cell phone so I can't edit my previous post.

Guys I found those cpu foams and messured its thickness with my vernier caliper. It's not good enough. It is too soft. The thickness values are:
3.2mm when normal.
0.5mm when pressed not so tightly.
Considering that Whilhelm said the card pieces are 0.8 mm thick then these foams won't do the trick.
While messuring I saw that my caliper's case had some thick foam that could do the trick well but anyway I need those foams in there... Got to see what else I could find.

Edit: wtf? Now I can edit my post? What the hell is wrong?

LOL looks like Iran badly needs some nuclear plants lol

Thats what I was afraid of foam is not solid and so it wont take it under the same pressure like the solid chip die..
I got a new ROD mainboard yesterday and I just confirmed another time that the height of the credit cards is really perfect.
I held it beside the chip dies and it is exactly as high as these, so I guess this is really the perfect height.

And you can edit your posts for like 30 minutes I guess, after that it locks it.
It is a pretty gay feature though imo because it would make life a lot easier for the topic starters if they could edit their tutorials on their own...

Hey wilhelm...id also like to confirm that this works wonderfully even without the X-Clamp replacement. I mean the creditcard thing. My xbox frequently froze up and had checkerboard patterns go across the screen every now and then. so i said what the hell and chopped up a gift card i had laying around and layed a piece at each corner of the GPU(along with a few other spots on the chip). Ive been playing my 360 non stop for the last 2 days now and it hasent frozen on up me yet!

QUOTE(modderguy791 @ Aug 4 2008, 05:12 AM)

Hey wilhelm...id also like to confirm that this works wonderfully even without the X-Clamp replacement. I mean the creditcard thing. My xbox frequently froze up and had checkerboard patterns go across the screen every now and then. so i said what the hell and chopped up a gift card i had laying around and layed a piece at each corner of the GPU(along with a few other spots on the chip). Ive been playing my 360 non stop for the last 2 days now and it hasent frozen on up me yet!

Ye it is quite clear that it works even with the X-Clamps still applied because you take the chip under more even pressure but the mainboard is still flexing so it will fail sooner or later again

Just out of curiosity, what was your secondary error code?

Well cant really tell you that, eject button doesent work lol. and that seems to be the only thing i cant fix with a chopped up credit card XD.

But im assuming it was something with the GPU since well, it did fix the freezing and such. usualy i would just let it overheat and then it would work for the next day or so and do the same thing over again

, and i dident really put it in the corners...more like 2 long strips on the side and the i had a strip going between the actual GPU Die and the embedded ram.

Now i dont want to get off topic or anything, but wouldent it be possible to build a New X-Clamp out of something stronger then steel? You know something that doesent bend well in heat.....

Anyway thanks for the helpful tutorial!

QUOTE(modderguy791 @ Aug 4 2008, 11:38 AM)

Well cant really tell you that, eject button doesent work lol. and that seems to be the only thing i cant fix with a chopped up credit card XD.

But im assuming it was something with the GPU since well, it did fix the freezing and such. usualy i would just let it overheat and then it would work for the next day or so and do the same thing over again

, and i dident really put it in the corners...more like 2 long strips on the side and the i had a strip going between the actual GPU Die and the embedded ram.

Now i dont want to get off topic or anything, but wouldent it be possible to build a New X-Clamp out of something stronger then steel? You know something that doesent bend well in heat.....

Anyway thanks for the helpful tutorial!

It pretty much doesnt matter what it is made of...
The thing puts the heatsinks under pressure and concentrates this force in a tiny little pin under the GPU.
This causes it to flex, if you dont get rid of them the solder balls will keep breaking...
Here is a thorough explanation of why 360s actually break in case you are interested
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=655662

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 4 2008, 05:20 AM)

LOL looks like Iran badly needs some nuclear plants lol

Thats what I was afraid of foam is not solid and so it wont take it under the same pressure like the solid chip die..
I got a new ROD mainboard yesterday and I just confirmed another time that the height of the credit cards is really perfect.
I held it beside the chip dies and it is exactly as high as these, so I guess this is really the perfect height.

And you can edit your posts for like 30 minutes I guess, after that it locks it.
It is a pretty gay feature though imo because it would make life a lot easier for the topic starters if they could edit their tutorials on their own...

Uhhh... I shouldn't be saying this but this is bulls***. We really don't need no nuclear plants or something. All this power shortage and thing are bulls*** too!! It's just a pretend. They just want to show the world that we really want that while we don't and with these power shortages a lot of people like yourself believe that!!! Imagine the world without any lies...

Ok. Back to the topic...
Like you said these foams are not even close to good. I guess those card pieces will do the trick for now till we find something better.
BTW another thing:
A friend of mine just got some fresh RROD from his falcon! 5mins of playing after he got his box and BOOM! Wtf?!
Now he says the damn thing doesn't ever powero on! I might be able to fix the RROD thing with x-clamp replacement but what about the powering on problem?
And one more thing. He said that the psu led is on green!!! Even while the box isn't powered.
Could this be a short/briged connection or something?
Ps: yeah! This editing thing sucks. Why does it have to be that way?

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 4 2008, 01:08 PM)

Uhhh... I shouldn't be saying this but this is bulls***. We really don't need no nuclear plants or something. All this power shortage and thing are bulls*** too!! It's just a pretend. They just want to show the world that we really want that while we don't and with these power shortages a lot of people like yourself believe that!!! Imagine the world without any lies...

Ok. Back to the topic...
Like you said these foams are not even close to good. I guess those card pieces will do the trick for now till we find something better.
BTW another thing:
A friend of mine just got some fresh RROD from his falcon! 5mins of playing after he got his box and BOOM! Wtf?!
Now he says the damn thing doesn't ever powero on! I might be able to fix the RROD thing with x-clamp replacement but what about the powering on problem?
And one more thing. He said that the psu led is on green!!! Even while the box isn't powered.
Could this be a short/briged connection or something?
Ps: yeah! This editing thing sucks. Why does it have to be that way?

Well looks like they fixed all issues for the awesome Falcon 360s then^^

Try to unplug everything and then power it up again if it still doesnt work it will not be a short because there is no sign for that like 0001 or a red light at the power supply.
My guess is that the 360 sent the power on signal to the PSU but afterwards the power to the rest is not enabled or so.
As far as I know this power on procedure is managed by the (H)ANA chip, so this might be a cold solder joint under this one...
Could also be an improperly plugged in RF board or a fucked up capacitor or so near the ANA chip as well...

Good luck with this one mate and please post your results and the secondary error code of the ROD if your mate checked it

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 4 2008, 04:33 PM)

Well looks like they fixed all issues for the awesome Falcon 360s then^^

Try to unplug everything and then power it up again if it still doesnt work it will not be a short because there is no sign for that like 0001 or a red light at the power supply.
My guess is that the 360 sent the power on signal to the PSU but afterwards the power to the rest is not enabled or so.
As far as I know this power on procedure is managed by the (H)ANA chip, so this might be a cold solder joint under this one...
Could also be an improperly plugged in RF board or a fucked up capacitor or so near the ANA chip as well...

Good luck with this one mate and please post your results and the secondary error code of the ROD if your mate checked it

So the sign for a short is 0001. What about 0002 which I was seeing on another box? In the pinned thread it says it's a network interface error but actually I think it's just a power issue (short or something)

But he said that RROD showed up after ~5mins of gaming and this was a brand new console! What the hell?
I'll see what I can dig up but since my mate doesn't live near me it might take some time till I get my hands on that box.
Anyway I'll be sure to post the results here

(might even find a chance to try the hybrid method too who knows??!)

0002 is a cold solder joint under the CPU/ power issue with it.
I cant confirm it completely but all signs are pointing at this.(am like 99% sure that it doesnt have to do with the network chip)
Actually I got someone who is reballing his CPU to fix this one if he can fix it with this I can tell you for sure that it is not network related...
Network related stuff is E75 and E76

Check your PMs by the way...

I just wanted to let you know that there is an alternative(maybe better) way to keep the credit card pieces in place until the heatsinks were applied.

All credits for this goes to a guy called jasonelmore1983 who sent me a PM.
His idea is to fasten the credit card pieces with thermal compound, so you might want to give it a try.
If you are unlucky this will cause problems though because the layer of thermal compound may not be much thicker than the tape otherwise you risk that the heatsink doesnt make good contact with the chip die anymore...

Hey everyone, first of all I'd like to thank Wilhelm for his excellent, easy to understand, tutorial for beginners like me. This is the first time I've ever tried fixing any of my consoles, and I've never fiddled around with any circuit boards or anything (middle school was probably the last time I've ever played with one...about 7years ago).

Well here's my problem, I had E74 and did Wilhelm's X-Clamp Replacement to try and fix it. I just finished doing everything and when I turned it on I still had E74. So I turned it off and tried it again. Then I got 3RoL and then 2RoL shortly after. Then I tried doing the "baking" trick which didn't help.

Any advice is appreciated. I was thinking about heat gunning next. But before I do that I wanted everyones opinions first. Oh...and be easy on me and try to keep responses as close to English as possible (I'm a Business major).

Thanks.

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got my 360 working again. BUT (there had to be a but) right when I boot it up you see the typical Xbox 360 logo then I just get 2RoL. Again any help would be appreciated.

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 5 2008, 07:21 AM)

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got my 360 working again. BUT (there had to be a but) right when I boot it up you see the typical Xbox 360 logo then I just get 2RoL. Again any help would be appreciated.

Your 360 is overheating, the heatsink is somehow not making good contact with the chip die.
Did you throrughly clean the chip dies with alcohol to a mirror finish?
And did you afterwards apply thermal compound of the size of a rice grain and afterwards spread it out evenly with a creditcard?
it would also be interesting how many washers you are using and how thick each one is?
Did you tighten the screws snug?

I guess that actually the baking fixed your broken connections under the GPU so the problem will return.
All the sign point at too many washers though so the chip cant be taken under pressure really.
Well we will see...

*EDIT*
Also get your secondary error code for the overheating 0011 is CPU related, 0012 GPU related...

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 5 2008, 01:21 AM)

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got my 360 working again. BUT (there had to be a but) right when I boot it up you see the typical Xbox 360 logo then I just get 2RoL. Again any help would be appreciated.

what kind of washer setup do you have current? Try removing the metal washers from your CPU heatsink and just use the nylon ones

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 5 2008, 09:21 AM)

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got my 360 working again. BUT (there had to be a but) right when I boot it up you see the typical Xbox 360 logo then I just get 2RoL. Again any help would be appreciated.

that means its cool enough until it starts to boot up then it gets hot and the CPU turns the system off.

probably not touching the heatsink real well. also make sure the thermal grease is in the right spots. (on the center of the CPU)

QUOTE(Majestic008 @ Aug 5 2008, 06:42 PM)

that means its cool enough until it starts to boot up then it gets hot and the CPU turns the system off.

probably not touching the heatsink real well. also make sure the thermal grease is in the right spots. (on the center of the CPU)

It must not be on the center it must be evenly spread out before putting the heatsink back on otherwise it will act like an isolator...

I just had the best idea.

Get a credit card or work out some shit, and glue it to the bottom of the GPU heatsink. Therefore, you scrap the tape idea. Seems a lot better. Like your method, but glue it to the bottom of the GPU heatsink.

Seems more reliable and easier than yours.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 5 2008, 02:56 AM)

Your 360 is overheating, the heatsink is somehow not making good contact with the chip die.
Did you throrughly clean the chip dies with alcohol to a mirror finish?
And did you afterwards apply thermal compound of the size of a rice grain and afterwards spread it out evenly with a creditcard?
it would also be interesting how many washers you are using and how thick each one is?
Did you tighten the screws snug?

I just disassembled my 360 again and it seems like the heatsink isn't making contact at all with the GPU. Could it be because I'm using black electrical tape which seems slightly thicker than the clear ones you used in your tutorial?

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 5 2008, 07:37 AM)

what kind of washer setup do you have current? Try removing the metal washers from your CPU heatsink and just use the nylon ones

My setup is the one from Wilhelm's diagram. I did that for both heatsinks. I also added a nylon washer between the screw and the motherboard.

QUOTE(Majestic008 @ Aug 5 2008, 09:42 AM)

that means its cool enough until it starts to boot up then it gets hot and the CPU turns the system off.

probably not touching the heatsink real well. also make sure the thermal grease is in the right spots. (on the center of the CPU)

Yah, the thermal compound's in the right spot and I put the right amount (grain of rice) and spread it evenly as thin as possible. It just seems my heatsink isn't making any contact with it...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 5 2008, 05:41 AM)

I just wanted to let you know that there is an alternative(maybe better) way to keep the credit card pieces in place until the heatsinks were applied.

All credits for this goes to a guy called jasonelmore1983 who sent me a PM.
His idea is to fasten the credit card pieces with thermal compound, so you might want to give it a try.
If you are unlucky this will cause problems though because the layer of thermal compound may not be much thicker than the tape otherwise you risk that the heatsink doesnt make good contact with the chip die anymore...

Man thanks for your tips!
I'm finally at home now and I've got some good news an bad news!
Bad news first:
The box that I repaired the other week got f***ed up real bad today!

While it's owner was carrying it, he wasn't very careful and it was dropped on the table... Nice results! Some good ol' pile of 0102 sh*t again. He didn't drop it that bad but it got f***ed up for that and now I've got to put some more work on it...

Now for the good news:
Dude you're not gonna believe this! I've got my hands on 2 RRoD boxes!!! (well actually 3 considering the F***ed up one)
One of them has 0102 which is in fact the best error and I like it a lot!!!
The other one got some crappy E74 which is concerning me a bit...
Now another good news is that I'm finally able to do a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method and hopefully post some success results...
Now about E74. Since I have never fixed/seen a box with that, what do you suggest?
I doubt x-clamp replacement will do any good. So any other method?
Thanks in advance for helping us out...

if your getting 2 RROD after x clamp fix, remove the metal washers and just keep the nylon washers.

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 6 2008, 02:21 AM)

if your getting 2 RROD after x clamp fix, remove the metal washers and just keep the nylon washers.

ummmm, no!
I meant I have 2 boxes with RRoD!!! I just wrote 2 RRoD not 2RRoD!!!
LOL! My bad!
So now there are 5 boxes here in my room! WOW! I'm the richest guy ever!!!
1) My own box (thank god it's been working nice since the fix)
2) A working box that requires 12v fan mod and cutting the fan's cage.
3) A non-working 0102 which I repaired but got f***ed up today.
4) Another non-working 0102 box.
5) Another one with E74!

Something I realized about the E74 box is that the fans just level up after each 5secs.
IE they're running slow at first. After 5 secs they spin up and so on till they create a horrible noise...
Why is that? Why so much heat?

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 6 2008, 12:51 AM)

I just disassembled my 360 again and it seems like the heatsink isn't making contact at all with the GPU. Could it be because I'm using black electrical tape which seems slightly thicker than the clear ones you used in your tutorial?
My setup is the one from Wilhelm's diagram. I did that for both heatsinks. I also added a nylon washer between the screw and the motherboard.
Yah, the thermal compound's in the right spot and I put the right amount (grain of rice) and spread it evenly as thin as possible. It just seems my heatsink isn't making any contact with it...

You've got to reduce the number of washers you are currently using.
2RRoDs are commonly CPU side problems (As I have seen so far). If playing with washers didn't work a shim should do the trick.

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 5 2008, 10:42 PM)

I just had the best idea.

Get a credit card or work out some shit, and glue it to the bottom of the GPU heatsink. Therefore, you scrap the tape idea. Seems a lot better. Like your method, but glue it to the bottom of the GPU heatsink.

Seems more reliable and easier than yours.

might be easier but it wont work so it is quite pointless...
I am working on the tape "issue" and already got an alternative, will take pics tomorrow(am charging my cam now) and updatre the guide.

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 5 2008, 11:21 PM)

I just disassembled my 360 again and it seems like the heatsink isn't making contact at all with the GPU. Could it be because I'm using black electrical tape which seems slightly thicker than the clear ones you used in your tutorial?
My setup is the one from Wilhelm's diagram. I did that for both heatsinks. I also added a nylon washer between the screw and the motherboard.
Yah, the thermal compound's in the right spot and I put the right amount (grain of rice) and spread it evenly as thin as possible. It just seems my heatsink isn't making any contact with it...

I dont know but bosnia had the same issues with his 360 somehow the American washers must be thicker than the ones I got here,,,
Each washer should be 1mm thick so make sure this matches....
Could also be the electrical tape tha tis too thick but I would rather bet on the washer

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 5 2008, 11:41 PM)

Man thanks for your tips!
I'm finally at home now and I've got some good news an bad news!
Bad news first:
The box that I repaired the other week got f***ed up real bad today!

While it's owner was carrying it, he wasn't very careful and it was dropped on the table... Nice results! Some good ol' pile of 0102 sh*t again. He didn't drop it that bad but it got f***ed up for that and now I've got to put some more work on it...

Now for the good news:
Dude you're not gonna believe this! I've got my hands on 2 RRoD boxes!!! (well actually 3 considering the F***ed up one)
One of them has 0102 which is in fact the best error and I like it a lot!!!
The other one got some crappy E74 which is concerning me a bit...
Now another good news is that I'm finally able to do a hybrid of yours and RBJTech's method and hopefully post some success results...
Now about E74. Since I have never fixed/seen a box with that, what do you suggest?
I doubt x-clamp replacement will do any good. So any other method?
Thanks in advance for helping us out...

The X-Clamp replacement will fix it if it is GPU related, to make sure it isnt the (H)ANA chip I would recommend that you reflow the solder under GPU, (H)ANA and in between.
First do the bottom, 1 min preheat 4 mins on high -> wait 45 minutes , then isolate the top , preheat for 1 min heatgun for 4 min-> wait another 45 minutes.
Afterwards do the X-Clamp replacement.
Should fix this one forever...

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 6 2008, 01:05 AM)

ummmm, no!
I meant I have 2 boxes with RRoD!!! I just wrote 2 RRoD not 2RRoD!!!
LOL! My bad!
So now there are 5 boxes here in my room! WOW! I'm the richest guy ever!!!
1) My own box (thank god it's been working nice since the fix)
2) A working box that requires 12v fan mod and cutting the fan's cage.
3) A non-working 0102 which I repaired but got f***ed up today.
4) Another non-working 0102 box.
5) Another one with E74!

Something I realized about the E74 box is that the fans just level up after each 5secs.
IE they're running slow at first. After 5 secs they spin up and so on till they create a horrible noise...
Why is that? Why so much heat?

He was not talking to you he meant DAEWEEZY

This only means that the chip dies arent making good contact with the dies, since it is E74 the mainboard might be flexing badly or someone already attempted a fix and couldnt use the thermal compound properly...

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 6 2008, 01:16 AM)

You've got to reduce the number of washers you are currently using.
2RRoDs are commonly CPU side problems (As I have seen so far). If playing with washers didn't work a shim should do the trick.

Just what bosnia said before

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 5 2008, 07:05 PM)

ummmm, no!
I meant I have 2 boxes with RRoD!!! I just wrote 2 RRoD not 2RRoD!!!
LOL! My bad!
So now there are 5 boxes here in my room! WOW! I'm the richest guy ever!!!
1) My own box (thank god it's been working nice since the fix)
2) A working box that requires 12v fan mod and cutting the fan's cage.
3) A non-working 0102 which I repaired but got f***ed up today.
4) Another non-working 0102 box.
5) Another one with E74!

Something I realized about the E74 box is that the fans just level up after each 5secs.
IE they're running slow at first. After 5 secs they spin up and so on till they create a horrible noise...
Why is that? Why so much heat?

i wasnt talking to you alright dude, i personally dont care if you have 20 xboxes with 1 rrod or 4 rrod. you do what you want with them and fix them how you want. this topic doesnt revolve around you and your xboxes..

So I took the tape off of the GPU and voila! My Xbox 360 is working perfect. Now my only concern is how long this'll last for.

QUOTE(DAEWEZZY @ Aug 6 2008, 04:22 AM)

So I took the tape off of the GPU and voila! My Xbox 360 is working perfect. Now my only concern is how long this'll last for.

This pretty much confirms that the height of the creditcard pieces is just perfect, a tiny bit too much and it is higher than the die...
Am updating the tutorial right now will reply when I am done...

Well I am done now.
I added an alternative method for those of you who dont want to use tape to fasten it.
I recommend the easier tape method though because it doesnt isolate the chip at all, the heat is only transfered to the heatsink anyway and the thermal probes in my own 360 pretty much confirm that.

The missing diagram for metal/ spring washers in between mainboard and screw was added as well

And I also added a warning for using too thick tape.

Next update will be for the hybrid of RBJTechs and mine that M2X is testing out but this will still take a while I guess...

Link: http://xe.brothersof...php?n=xclampeng

Wilhelm

For those of you who have done this for multiple xbox 360s, about how long does it take you to do this per console?

QUOTE(kreestof @ Aug 6 2008, 06:55 PM)

For those of you who have done this for multiple xbox 360s, about how long does it take you to do this per console?

Takes me around an hour for the whole process(included disassembling etc), sometimes faster.

With heatgunning it takes about 3 hours because of the long waiting times but this is not always necessary at least not for the usual errors...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 6 2008, 12:25 PM)

Well I am done now.
I added an alternative method for those of you who dont want to use tape to fasten it.
I recommend the easier tape method though because it doesnt isolate the chip at all, the heat is only transfered to the heatsink anyway and the thermal probes in my own 360 pretty much confirm that.

The missing diagram for metal/ spring washers in between mainboard and screw was added as well

And I also added a warning for using too thick tape.

Next update will be for the hybrid of RBJTechs and mine that M2X is testing out but this will still take a while I guess...

Link: http://xe.brothersof...php?n=xclampeng
Wilhelm

USE AS5? WTF? Why not a little glue or something? AS5? No offense, that is the dumbest thign I have ever heard.

Yeah you can buy really strong adhesive/epoxy that can withstand temps of over 200C... that should be just about good enough for a 360

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 6 2008, 01:27 PM)

USE AS5? WTF? Why not a little glue or something? AS5? No offense, that is the dumbest thign I have ever heard.

Now that is the dumbest thing ive ever heard... ^

You dont use glue because once it gets hot it melts...

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 6 2008, 07:27 PM)

USE AS5? WTF? Why not a little glue or something? AS5? No offense, that is the dumbest thign I have ever heard.

First of all, Chill out!

Well if you had read this thread you would have figured out that certain people who complained about the tape dont want to remove glue residue in case they have to take it apart ever again, this is why!

AS5 can also easily be removed and a side effect is that it is easier to apply a thin layer of AS5 than glue....

QUOTE(jimbobjim @ Aug 6 2008, 07:35 PM)

Yeah you can buy really strong adhesive/epoxy that can withstand temps of over 200C... that should be just about good enough for a 360

Same here...
You can basically use whatever you want if you dont care about the residue as long as it is not too thick...

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Aug 6 2008, 07:42 PM)

You are thinking a bit extreme mate, this would only happen if there was no washer in between GPU and mainboard.
And you would also have to tighten the screws extremely snug and the mainboard would crack before it bends like that.
I am not denying that there is a slight flexing under the chip, you can never eliminate that completely but because of the even larger surface area the pressure is shared up to the whole chip so less pressure is necessary and it will flex less than every other fix that you can find here.

I have also seen your fix on the pictures, it was actually a nice idea but you forgot that the mainboard was flexing when you put the GPU in plaster.
This is a significant mistake that will lead to even worse flexing because once you take everything under pressure the bottom parts will act similar like an x-clamp(bottom part looks like a hill and the top part like the negative of a hill) and push the center under the chip up.
At the same time the top part on the GPU will be pushed down and take the outer solder balls under pressure.
Since the whole thing is still flexing though and the plaster only keeps it in its old position(in the best case) this wont work reliably...

My fix doesnt have this problem because the creditcard has got the exact height of the GPU die and so the chip is perfectly flat.

To get your fix to work properly you would have to put plaster on a working non flexing mainboard and put this on a broken one in order to fix it by pushing it back in its perfect position without any flexing...

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 6 2008, 07:53 PM)

Now that is the dumbest thing ive ever heard... ^

You dont use glue because once it gets hot it melts...

Also depends on the glue

We will live some time, we will see

38.4*C

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 6 2008, 03:42 AM)

The X-Clamp replacement will fix it if it is GPU related, to make sure it isnt the (H)ANA chip I would recommend that you reflow the solder under GPU, (H)ANA and in between.
First do the bottom, 1 min preheat 4 mins on high -> wait 45 minutes , then isolate the top , preheat for 1 min heatgun for 4 min-> wait another 45 minutes.
Afterwards do the X-Clamp replacement.
Should fix this one forever...

Thanks! Much appreciated!

I'll do that and post the result for sure just after I find a good and worthy heatgun. Still I'm looking for it.
Hope I could help you the way you are helping us...

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 6 2008, 05:35 AM)

i wasnt talking to you alright dude, i personally dont care if you have 20 xboxes with 1 rrod or 4 rrod. you do what you want with them and fix them how you want. this topic doesnt revolve around you and your xboxes..

LOL! OK man OK! It was my bad! Since I just read your post and your post was right after mine so I thought you were talking to me!
I'm just here to help and to test a hybrid of MKI and Wilhelm's method!!!
Sorry if I got you wrong...

and sorry for double answering...

can i put 2 washers and dye (next to gpu ones) to cure my overheating 0013?

I haven't checked the forums for a while now .

looks like wilhelm is doing what I suggested in my tutorial.

I wasn't using credit cards , though.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=618278

if you look at my tutorial you'll see the AMD pads that were mentioned.

First of all I must say $hit 10 times!

Why?
Cause I'm so screwed...
DAMN MAN!
Here's the story:

As I promised to Wilhelm I was going to test a hybrid of RBJTech's and Wilhelm's method today.
All went good until the part that I wanted to place the card pieces with a thermal paste.
I had just got some phone cars the other day and I cut the 2x2mm pieces soooo easily.
Then I placed them in their places and I applied a thin layer of thermal compound on the die and then I replaced the heatsink with 3 washers. I tightened the screws and then removed them again so I could see if there's good contact with the heatsink or not. I saw that there was no sign of thermal paste on the heatsink. So it was making zero contact with the die.
I then used 2 washers, no go. 1 washers still nothing. No washers and then I just realized that the hight of the card pieces were not good. They are exactly 0.8mm high. So I said WTF? I pressed them tightly with some tools and then redid everything. Still no go.

I had no idea what to do. I had nothing else to replace with the card pieces and the damn owner needed his box real quick.
So I actually missed the chance to do the hybrid method and I just used RBJTech's method and then ....

Some good/bad things happened with me getting a little screwed...
With some hopes I might have found a possible cause/fix for 0002.
I connected the power supply and turned the thing on.
Right then it showed me the beyond beautiful 0002.
This was the box that had some random 0002.
I loosened the screws on the CPU side a bit and turned it on again...
Then the 0002 error was gone but some 2RRoD just popped after 3RRoD.
I was just like this:

Then I realized something was happening and it was something that should never be.
I noticed that something like dust was flying in the air... But wait!! DUST??! NO $HIT! It was white smoke coming out from somewhere around the CPU heatsink along with a horrible smell of electronics circuits.

I immediately turned the box off and removed the power cable and etc.
Then I quickly removed the heatsinks (and I realized that the bolt in the upper right corner of the CPU was boiling hot!
Then I examined the other side of the board.
As Wilhelm already told me, I knew that 0002 was a short somewhere near CPU.
I couldn't find the place at first but then I carefully smelled the board I and finally found the spot with some horrible smell

It is shown in the picture below (as number 1) and as you can see there are some sign of short/bridged connection in there:

IPB Image

Now since I couldn't find the place that they are connected to (since the PCB is a 7 layer PCB if I'm not wrong) I became suspicious about the legs of those capacitors (shown as number 2) as they were longer than normal (comparing with other boxes that I previously fixed).
So then I thought I could use some electrical tape to isolate the spot and other capacitors legs as shown in the picture below:

IPB Image

After the isolation, I redid the fix (x-clamp replacement) and tampered with the nuts on the GPU side and finally I saw some green lights.

So I think the 0002 is caused by the bridged connection in the points in the pictures above.
IE if they are bridged the system will never power on and goes straight to 0002.
BUT if they get somehow bridged then the system won't probably realize and this could cause a major catastrophe perhaps.
But I might be wrong with all these. Me and other people should do some more research on this matter.
If isolating the points in the pictures could actually solve 0002 then it would be a possible fix.
Any ideas?

PS:Thanks for reading the long full of crap story!!!

Now one other thing. There is another 0102 box here waiting to be repaired. The thing is I have something like 3 days and the owner is not in a hurry in no way. Perhaps if I get lucky I could test the hybrid method on this one.
Now the problem is I can't find the right thing to put on the chip.
What should I do? Any suggestions?

I really really would like to do this hybrid method and see the results.
Any help would be appreciated in advance...

Those AMD pads aren't really easy to get though.

is that brownish stuff bad for the mobo?

i have alot of that crap on my mobo plz help

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 6 2008, 11:17 PM)

Thanks! Much appreciated!

I'll do that and post the result for sure just after I find a good and worthy heatgun. Still I'm looking for it.
Hope I could help you the way you are helping us...
LOL! OK man OK! It was my bad! Since I just read your post and your post was right after mine so I thought you were talking to me!
I'm just here to help and to test a hybrid of MKI and Wilhelm's method!!!
Sorry if I got you wrong...

and sorry for double answering...

QUOTE(1ic1 @ Aug 6 2008, 11:54 PM)

can i put 2 washers and dye (next to gpu ones) to cure my overheating 0013?

Check your PMs I already answered it...

QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Aug 7 2008, 12:04 AM)

I haven't checked the forums for a while now .

looks like wilhelm is doing what I suggested in my tutorial.

I wasn't using credit cards , though.

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=618278

if you look at my tutorial you'll see the AMD pads that were mentioned.

Ah I didnt know about this one, I will add it as a reference the next time I update it....

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 7 2008, 12:18 AM)

Those AMD pads aren't really easy to get though.

Probably on Ebay...

QUOTE(1ic1 @ Aug 7 2008, 12:37 AM)

is that brownish stuff bad for the mobo?

i have alot of that crap on my mobo plz help

Is just flux not really "bad" for the mainboard

QUOTE

First of all I must say $hit 10 times! grr.gif
Why?
Cause I'm so screwed...
DAMN MAN!
Here's the story:

1) As I promised to Wilhelm I was going to test a hybrid of RBJTech's and Wilhelm's method today.
All went good until the part that I wanted to place the card pieces with a thermal paste.
I had just got some phone cars the other day and I cut the 2x2mm pieces soooo easily.
Then I placed them in their places and I applied a thin layer of thermal compound on the die and then I replaced the heatsink with 3 washers. I tightened the screws and then removed them again so I could see if there's good contact with the heatsink or not. I saw that there was no sign of thermal paste on the heatsink. So it was making zero contact with the die.
I then used 2 washers, no go. 1 washers still nothing. No washers and then I just realized that the hight of the card pieces were not good. They are exactly 0.8mm high. So I said WTF? I pressed them tightly with some tools and then redid everything. Still no go. muhaha.gif
I had no idea what to do. I had nothing else to replace with the card pieces and the damn owner needed his box real quick.
So I actually missed the chance to do the hybrid method and I just used RBJTech's method and then ....

2) Some good/bad things happened with me getting a little screwed...
With some hopes I might have found a possible cause/fix for 0002.
I connected the power supply and turned the thing on.
Right then it showed me the beyond beautiful 0002.
This was the box that had some random 0002.
I loosened the screws on the CPU side a bit and turned it on again...
Then the 0002 error was gone but some 2RRoD just popped after 3RRoD.
I was just like this: blink.gif unsure.gif
Then I realized something was happening and it was something that should never be.
I noticed that something like dust was flying in the air... But wait!! DUST??! NO $HIT! It was white smoke coming out from somewhere around the CPU heatsink along with a horrible smell of electronics circuits.
muhaha.gif muhaha.gif muhaha.gif muhaha.gif
I immediately turned the box off and removed the power cable and etc.
Then I quickly removed the heatsinks (and I realized that the bolt in the upper right corner of the CPU was boiling hot!
Then I examined the other side of the board.
As Wilhelm already told me, I knew that 0002 was a short somewhere near CPU.
I couldn't find the place at first but then I carefully smelled the board I and finally found the spot with some horrible smell tongue.gif
It is shown in the picture below (as number 1) and as you can see there are some sign of short/bridged connection in there:

IPB Image

Now since I couldn't find the place that they are connected to (since the PCB is a 7 layer PCB if I'm not wrong) I became suspicious about the legs of those capacitors (shown as number 2) as they were longer than normal (comparing with other boxes that I previously fixed).
So then I thought I could use some electrical tape to isolate the spot and other capacitors legs as shown in the picture below:

IPB Image

After the isolation, I redid the fix (x-clamp replacement) and tampered with the nuts on the GPU side and finally I saw some green lights. happy.gif

So I think the 0002 is caused by the bridged connection in the points in the pictures above.
IE if they are bridged the system will never power on and goes straight to 0002.
BUT if they get somehow bridged then the system won't probably realize and this could cause a major catastrophe perhaps.
But I might be wrong with all these. Me and other people should do some more research on this matter.
If isolating the points in the pictures could actually solve 0002 then it would be a possible fix.
Any ideas?

PS:Thanks for reading the long full of crap story!!! biggrin.gif

3) Now one other thing. There is another 0102 box here waiting to be repaired. The thing is I have something like 3 days and the owner is not in a hurry in no way. Perhaps if I get lucky I could test the hybrid method on this one.
Now the problem is I can't find the right thing to put on the chip.
What should I do? Any suggestions? uhh.gif
I really really would like to do this hybrid method and see the results.
Any help would be appreciated in advance... happy.gif

Quoting didnt work somehow so I just copied it...

1) Well try to use the thin tape I used the next time, I havent tested the thermal compound method, it was this jasonel dude who told me it worked for him...
Also make sure it got the same height as the die, just hold the card beside it it should be exactly as high as the die.
I dont know what a caliper is and I dont think I have got one I would know otherwise so I could only measure it by comparing it with a metal washer.
I bet on the thermal compound though...

2) Well this confirms pretty much what I thought.
What I found out about this one so far is that it can be caused by a lifted up CPU, so a cold or bridged solder joint.
And it can also be power related, probably when the CPU isnt getting clean power because a cap is missing or bridged like you showed here.
The fact that 0102 is a cold solder joint under the GPU give me more reason to believe that 0002 is a cold and not a bridged solder joint though

The very last thing that makes me sure that it is rather a cold than a bridged is though what I experienced with the tampered 360 I got from Ebay.
This 360 used to have 0102 I fixed it by heatgunning.
Afterwards I figured out the RAMs were flat and the error code changed to 0020(some retard obviously tried to fix it with a heatgun

)...
However I used this one for tests instead of selling it on Ebay for parts.
What I did was cutting the temperature traces of the CPU because some guy was having weird overheating problems.
After that the system didnt show the 2 red lights for CPU overheating anymore.
Like you might guess the thing became literally burning hot.
I noticed though that the thing did a click after approximately 30 seconds which I found weird.
After having some fun cooking my CPU a few more time and hearing this click noise I decided to check the error code after this clicking noise.
Right after this click the error code always changed from 0020 to 0002.
Because of the high temperature some of the solder joints probably lost contact and became cold.
After turning it off and back on the error code was 0020 again...

As I said before already I also got someone to reball his CPU to fix this error and I hope he will be able to solve this little quest definitely...

It is like 99% sure that this error is a CPU related cold solder joint or if what M2X said is true it can also be a problem with the way the CPU is powered.
Since the CPU usually throws the error code(if I remember right, correct me if I am wrong) it might just be an error code that is caused when the CPU doesnt know whats wrong like with 0001 it is not powered then, so might be the same with 0002...

3) Have you got MSN maybe?
If so add me communication is much easier then...
As recommended before already try the tape method...
The fact that it overheated might also be somehow related to the cold solder joint under the CPU probably it shortened the temp sensor or so...

What is the distance between the GPU and the heatsink?

QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Aug 6 2008, 09:09 PM)

What is the distance between the GPU and the heatsink?

2mm

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 7 2008, 03:15 AM)

2mm

Must be a little bit more, rather like 2.5mm, and it also depends which part of the GPU you mean, this if or the chip dies...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 7 2008, 03:53 AM)

Quoting didnt work somehow so I just copied it...

1) Well try to use the thin tape I used the next time, I havent tested the thermal compound method, it was this jasonel dude who told me it worked for him...
Also make sure it got the same height as the die, just hold the card beside it it should be exactly as high as the die.
I dont know what a caliper is and I dont think I have got one I would know otherwise so I could only measure it by comparing it with a metal washer.
I bet on the thermal compound though...

2) Well this confirms pretty much what I thought.
What I found out about this one so far is that it can be caused by a lifted up CPU, so a cold or bridged solder joint.
And it can also be power related, probably when the CPU isnt getting clean power because a cap is missing or bridged like you showed here.
The fact that 0102 is a cold solder joint under the GPU give me more reason to believe that 0002 is a cold and not a bridged solder joint though

The very last thing that makes me sure that it is rather a cold than a bridged is though what I experienced with the tampered 360 I got from Ebay.
This 360 used to have 0102 I fixed it by heatgunning.
Afterwards I figured out the RAMs were flat and the error code changed to 0020(some retard obviously tried to fix it with a heatgun

)...
However I used this one for tests instead of selling it on Ebay for parts.
What I did was cutting the temperature traces of the CPU because some guy was having weird overheating problems.
After that the system didnt show the 2 red lights for CPU overheating anymore.
Like you might guess the thing became literally burning hot.
I noticed though that the thing did a click after approximately 30 seconds which I found weird.
After having some fun cooking my CPU a few more time and hearing this click noise I decided to check the error code after this clicking noise.
Right after this click the error code always changed from 0020 to 0002.
Because of the high temperature some of the solder joints probably lost contact and became cold.
After turning it off and back on the error code was 0020 again...

As I said before already I also got someone to reball his CPU to fix this error and I hope he will be able to solve this little quest definitely...

It is like 99% sure that this error is a CPU related cold solder joint or if what M2X said is true it can also be a problem with the way the CPU is powered.
Since the CPU usually throws the error code(if I remember right, correct me if I am wrong) it might just be an error code that is caused when the CPU doesnt know whats wrong like with 0001 it is not powered then, so might be the same with 0002...

3) Have you got MSN maybe?
If so add me communication is much easier then...
As recommended before already try the tape method...
The fact that it overheated might also be somehow related to the cold solder joint under the CPU probably it shortened the temp sensor or so...

1) I'm sure my problem with zero contact is coming from the card pieces.
I even tested that without any tape or thermal paste but still I had some problems.
Damn! I don't know why everything here is different from the rest of the world. I mean these phone cards have different thickness compared to each other too!!! WTF?

2)If reballing did fix the issue then please inform us.
But I'm sure my problem was coming from the solder points in the picture (as the horrible smell in there already confirmed that.

3)MSN?? Well I used to have but it has been deactivated for some time now (like 2 years).
Buy I use Yahoo and GTalk instead if you have one.
Since my problem is coming from the card pieces themselves what else to you recommend?
How about using rubber pieces like said in the other tutorial that Tortuga2112 said?

BTW a caliper is a tool for measuring length, radius, height, etc.
It can measure values as small as 0.02mm (depending on the model)
Now it's really handy for fixing an xbox (measuring the size of the washers and its thickness etc)

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 7 2008, 09:18 AM)

1) I'm sure my problem with zero contact is coming from the card pieces.
I even tested that without any tape or thermal paste but still I had some problems.
Damn! I don't know why everything here is different from the rest of the world. I mean these phone cards have different thickness compared to each other too!!! WTF?

2)If reballing did fix the issue then please inform us.
But I'm sure my problem was coming from the solder points in the picture (as the horrible smell in there already confirmed that.

3)MSN?? Well I used to have but it has been deactivated for some time now (like 2 years).
Buy I use Yahoo and GTalk instead if you have one.
Since my problem is coming from the card pieces themselves what else to you recommend?
How about using rubber pieces like said in the other tutorial that Tortuga2112 said?

BTW a caliper is a tool for measuring length, radius, height, etc.
It can measure values as small as 0.02mm (depending on the model)
Now it's really handy for fixing an xbox (measuring the size of the washers and its thickness etc)

The rubber pieces are still better than nothing but solid card pieces are better because they dont shrink like foam and have the same consistence as the chip die...

If this helps you, my VISA card has got the same height as the EC card I have been using so maybe you can get one of these rather than a phone card...

Here are some pictures to compare the height again I dont have a caliper and I guess most people wont either so this probably helps more...

Greetings,

I've got the 3RLOD for quite a time, but was able to play around 75% of the times. But last night, all the colors faded out and No video... So I think It's time for me to do the X-Clamp thing. But I saw you on another topic saying that your technique might be more efficent on a long term basis. I'll would like to see it but your website seems to be out of order :S How is the success rate of your fix?

QUOTE(NeoSNIPER @ Aug 7 2008, 03:28 PM)

Greetings,

I've got the 3RLOD for quite a time, but was able to play around 75% of the times. But last night, all the colors faded out and No video... So I think It's time for me to do the X-Clamp thing. But I saw you on another topic saying that your technique might be more efficent on a long term basis. I'll would like to see it but your website seems to be out of order :S How is the success rate of your fix?

Success rate *100% so far and none of them came back yet(lifetime warranty)...
I only couldnt fix a 360 that someone tampered with before I made it to fix 0102 on it and then I figured out the previous owner heatgunned it and the bottom RAM was flat.
Getting the RAM reballed costs more than a new mainboard so it wasnt worth it...

I am sorry about the downtime of the website I am actually working on the login system and the error code editing/adding and apparently there was an error that I didnt notice while coding...

There is a hgiher chance that mine also fixes your scaler chip related problem if its source is one of the outher solderballs under the GPU.
Otherwise heatgun the area from the GPU to the scaler chip like shown in my heatgunning tutorial.(link in signature)

It is back up and working now!

Wilhelm

Is this fix suitable for my 0020 error 360? I have done those old xclamp fixes for the gpu probably 3 times, each lasting only a week to a month each.

thanks

God damn! ERROR 0022 to ERROR 0011 to ERROR 0002, I just want to PLAY! XD

I heatgunned GPU and ANA for 0022, then gets 0011, I Say, ok... maybe the CPU needs hot, according o the FAQS Errors, 0011 could be CPU... so I heat it... then 0002... PSU/Network... I haven touch that port.. so I think I just fuck up some cap near the CPU area, I mean, the tinys cap no on the top but the bottom.

What can I do.. I just saying what I think based on what I read

Regards and great tutorial

P.D.

I dont want to spend nore money, 50 buks for that heat gun... God what I was thinkin'

This post has been edited by Viral Doom: Aug 8 2008, 07:13 AM

QUOTE(nwa @ Aug 8 2008, 08:39 AM)

Is this fix suitable for my 0020 error 360? I have done those old xclamp fixes for the gpu probably 3 times, each lasting only a week to a month each.

thanks

I fixed a couple of these with it, just give it a go.
If this one doesnt work either the bridged solder joint will be under the RAM and you will have to reflow it with a heatgun....

QUOTE(Viral Doom @ Aug 8 2008, 08:47 AM)

God damn! ERROR 0022 to ERROR 0011 to ERROR 0002, I just want to PLAY! XD

I heatgunned GPU and ANA for 0022, then gets 0011, I Say, ok... maybe the CPU needs hot, according o the FAQS Errors, 0011 could be CPU... so I heat it... then 0002... PSU/Network... I haven touch that port.. so I think I just fuck up some cap near the CPU area, I mean, the tinys cap no on the top but the bottom.

What can I do.. I just saying what I think based on what I read

Regards and great tutorial

P.D.

I dont want to spend nore money, 50 buks for that heat gun... God what I was thinkin'

Well you fixed 0022 because it overrrides 0002 usually.
0002 is CPU related and either a cold solder joint under CPU or a problem with the way it is powered.
So it could indeed be this capacitor right below, could you take a picture of it?

QUOTE(Viral Doom @ Aug 8 2008, 10:17 AM)

God damn! ERROR 0022 to ERROR 0011 to ERROR 0002, I just want to PLAY! XD

I heatgunned GPU and ANA for 0022, then gets 0011, I Say, ok... maybe the CPU needs hot, according o the FAQS Errors, 0011 could be CPU... so I heat it... then 0002... PSU/Network... I haven touch that port.. so I think I just fuck up some cap near the CPU area, I mean, the tinys cap no on the top but the bottom.

What can I do.. I just saying what I think based on what I read

Regards and great tutorial

P.D.

I dont want to spend nore money, 50 buks for that heat gun... God what I was thinkin'

Also consider my post regarding the 0002 error in the previous page. Try what I did also and post the results please.

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 8 2008, 04:07 AM)

Also consider my post regarding the 0002 error in the previous page. Try what I did also and post the results please.

Sorry fella, I did it with no hopes.. and didnt works.. sorry, Even I didnt touch those points, my modo is intact in this area

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Posted Today, 02:52 AM)

Well you fixed 0022 because it overrrides 0002 usually.
0002 is CPU related and either a cold solder joint under CPU or a problem with the way it is powered.
So it could indeed be this capacitor right below, could you take a picture of it?

Ok, let me take a picture, but I gonna try to heat again the CPU, or what do u say? heheheh

BTW... my MSN is [email protected], if u want yo help me.. please want! xD

This post has been edited by Viral Doom: Aug 8 2008, 02:38 PM

CPU reheatgunned.... 0002, I gonna take pictures of the whole mobo.

BTW.... I have notice that my mobo is a little ummm crooked xD

QUOTE(Viral Doom @ Aug 8 2008, 04:44 PM)

CPU reheatgunned.... 0002, I gonna take pictures of the whole mobo.

BTW.... I have notice that my mobo is a little ummm crooked xD

Ye take pictures and concentrate on the CPU area especially...

If you need some help add my MSN...

Applied some new security updates.
If you decide to put the washers on the RAM to fix 0110 or just to cool them better, make sure they are exactly 1mm thick.
The same accounts for all other washers that you use, they must have a height/thickness of exactly 1mm...

If the washer on the RAM is too thick you risk that the heatsink is lopsided and if you actually screw it down the RAM brick will crack

This post has been edited by Wilhelm_I: Aug 9 2008, 12:20 PM

I got my credit card pieces all taped down and I'm ready for some thermal pasting. As I was about to head out to get some Arctic Silver 5 my bro gave me some Antec 77064 Thermal Grease. Will that stuff work or should I get the AS5?
(IMG:http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/35-129-002-03.jpg)(IMG:http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll200/35-129-002-04.jpg)

Ignore my previous post. I went out and got AS5. I'm still getting a red ring and then an overheat like 3 seconds later(0012 GPU over heating). Grrrrrrrrrrr. Tried various screw tightness(I'm using spring + nylon + metal washers). Any suggestions? Check the paste?

Does this look right? The matte finish on the tape makes it look thicker than it really is but it is really incredibly thin scotch tape.

Looks to me like partial contact on the cpu and zero contact on the gpu.

So what is the distance between the bottom of the GPU heatsink and the top of the silicon board of the GPU. There is the motherboard, solder balls, GPU circuit board, little transistor thingies, then the actual die of the GPU (well the 2 dies.)

Basically, the surface where you put your credit cards pieces on. What is the distance between that and the bottom of the GPU heatsink, or the top of the GPU die, same thing.

I took off the heat sinks and one of them(gpu?) didn't really have any as5 on it so I guess it wasn't making contact. How do you think I should fix this? I already tried screwing the screws really tight. I don't know if replacing the credit card pieces would even work. What about removing a spring washer from the bottom? Also, since I removed the heat sinks, should I reapply paste to the heatsink with the good connection or leave it?
IPB Image

For now I would concentrate on the gpu, try removing the credit card pieces and re-install the heatsink if it now makes good contact as in check the heatsink again then you know the pieces were to high. If it's the same as before then you either have to many washers between the motherboard and the heatsink or they are the wrong thickness.

QUOTE(ltkerr0r @ Aug 9 2008, 10:08 PM)

Ignore my previous post. I went out and got AS5. I'm still getting a red ring and then an overheat like 3 seconds later(0012 GPU over heating). Grrrrrrrrrrr. Tried various screw tightness(I'm using spring + nylon + metal washers). Any suggestions? Check the paste?

Does this look right? The matte finish on the tape makes it look thicker than it really is but it is really incredibly thin scotch tape.

Found the solution for your problem

There is a small capacitor under the middle left credit card piece on the GPU which makes this part higher and the heatsink doesnt have good contact to the chip die...

QUOTE(card9 @ Aug 9 2008, 11:59 PM)

Looks to me like partial contact on the cpu and zero contact on the gpu.

QUOTE(TheBestXboxModder @ Aug 10 2008, 12:52 AM)

So what is the distance between the bottom of the GPU heatsink and the top of the silicon board of the GPU. There is the motherboard, solder balls, GPU circuit board, little transistor thingies, then the actual die of the GPU (well the 2 dies.)

Basically, the surface where you put your credit cards pieces on. What is the distance between that and the bottom of the GPU heatsink, or the top of the GPU die, same thing.

I never measured it properly but I would say like 0.75mm because this is the height of the creditcard pieces I used...
The distance from the bottom of the heatsink to the mainboard is a bit more than 2mm, like 2.5mm or so...

QUOTE(ltkerr0r @ Aug 10 2008, 01:20 AM)

I took off the heat sinks and one of them(gpu?) didn't really have any as5 on it so I guess it wasn't making contact. How do you think I should fix this? I already tried screwing the screws really tight. I don't know if replacing the credit card pieces would even work. What about removing a spring washer from the bottom? Also, since I removed the heat sinks, should I reapply paste to the heatsink with the good connection or leave it?
IPB Image

Read my first reply mate, it was just what I guessed...

QUOTE(card9 @ Aug 10 2008, 05:53 AM)

For now I would concentrate on the gpu, try removing the credit card pieces and re-install the heatsink if it now makes good contact as in check the heatsink again then you know the pieces were to high. If it's the same as before then you either have to many washers between the motherboard and the heatsink or they are the wrong thickness.

Same here...
Just cut out a smaller pieces like 1.5x1.5mm yours are a bit big...
Then you will not have any problems with small capacitors...

I adjusted that credit card piece before putting on the heatsink and I also cut out 2 smaller pieces for that one and the bottom left. I also then tried pushing the heatsink down on it with only 4 corner credit card pieces and I did not get any thermal paste residue from contact(would trying with only the middle card pieces just cause it to be lopsided?). I removed the credit card pieces from the GPU and fired it back up and got a green ring

. I quickly shut it off and started putting it back together. After the internals and cooling were back together I fired it up again only to get a red ring at the logo(0102)

. I guess I could try "baking" it but I would prefer to do that with the credit card pieces back on. Any suggestions to fixing the no contact problem? The credit card pieces are on the cpu and the heatsink is making great contact there so they are the right size(thickness). I guess I'll try making all of the pieces smaller and see how that goes. *sigh*

The pieces will be too thick, try to find a thinner credit/phonecard.
M2X just reported that he could get it to work by cutting out very thin pieces of rubber, so give this a try.
He couldnt get any card with the exact thickness either because he lives in Iran lol.

I will update the tutorial later on when he sent me the picture...

I used a thinner ID card and so far it ran fine for like 7 minutes. I'll put the case back on later and play a game for like 30+ mins and see how that works out. I should idle at the dashboard for like 10 mins before turning off the 360 though right?

QUOTE(ltkerr0r @ Aug 10 2008, 05:31 PM)

I used a thinner ID card and so far it ran fine for like 7 minutes. I'll put the case back on later and play a game for like 30+ mins and see how that works out. I should idle at the dashboard for like 10 mins before turning off the 360 though right?

Well looks like you got the correct thickness then...
I never do that but people say it helps to let the 360 cool down for a bit this way because the solder joints dont crack for so long so you maybe save a second or so.
If it breaks it breaks anyway, so rather do some cooling mods instead...

Great method wilhelm.

Just correct me if I miss somthing. As i recall you don't recomment to work spring washer. With this method, you are using it. Can you explain in detail using spring washer and nylon on bottom of board? Also, I can't find flat heat screw and don't seem like to cut a hold on case. By take off the metal washer and just left nylon washer in on bottom will cut off 1mm thick of oval heat of screw?

I was just looking at the parts list between this improved xclamp replacement and lawdawg's method. Lawdawg's method uses 5mm washers, but this improved method uses 2x1mm washers. Wilhelm, just above, you mention that the distance between the heatsink and motherboard is more like 2.5mm. So, I'm confused. Do I want 5mm, 2mm, or 2.5mm between the heatsink and motherboard?

QUOTE(Onimu @ Aug 11 2008, 11:13 AM)

Great method wilhelm.

Just correct me if I miss somthing. As i recall you don't recomment to work spring washer. With this method, you are using it. Can you explain in detail using spring washer and nylon on bottom of board? Also, I can't find flat heat screw and don't seem like to cut a hold on case. By take off the metal washer and just left nylon washer in on bottom will cut off 1mm thick of oval heat of screw?

Thanks.

I am not sure that I understood what you said but I will try to reply.

Actually spring washers are good to provide even pressure to each screw and to keep it consistent.
However you also easily overtighten the screws and then the pressure is too high and you will flex the mainboard.
I use them but only tighten the screws as much as necessary till the spring washers just became flat not more.

If you use nylon or metal washers the pressure is shared up to a larger area which is a good think however they dont offer this consistent pressure but you cant overtighten the screws so easily...
The screwhead+washers may not be higher than 3mm otherwise the mainboard will start flexing, even 3 is problematic already...
Cutting holes is always the safer way...

QUOTE(boffo123 @ Aug 11 2008, 04:55 PM)

I was just looking at the parts list between this improved xclamp replacement and lawdawg's method. Lawdawg's method uses 5mm washers, but this improved method uses 2x1mm washers. Wilhelm, just above, you mention that the distance between the heatsink and motherboard is more like 2.5mm. So, I'm confused. Do I want 5mm, 2mm, or 2.5mm between the heatsink and motherboard?

The 5mm are not the thickness if it is anything it is somehow the diameter or something.
You need either 1x 2mm thick washer or 2x 1mm thick ones , these are just perfect(the size should be M5)
The washers are there to prevent the heatsink from flexing too much...

Hey Will, help me.

I'm from Brazil and i'm trying to do your method but here i can't find nylon washers, can I do without them or not ?
I was thinking in method 1.
screw-mobo-metal washer-metal washer-heatsink.

Please, answer me

Thanks for the great tutorial

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 11 2008, 03:11 PM)

The 5mm are not the thickness if it is anything it is somehow the diameter or something.
You need either 1x 2mm thick washer or 2x 1mm thick ones , these are just perfect(the size should be M5)
The washers are there to prevent the heatsink from flexing too much...

Ah, silly me. I think 5mm is the diameter of the hole.

Anyways, I tried implementing the improved xclamp replacement using a spent Visa gift card. Turns out it was too thick, preventing the heatsinks from making contact. So, I'm afraid I had to leave it out and use the standard xclamp fix. This was in combination with heatgunning the bottom of the board to fix an E74 error. I hope it lasts. I'd rather have credit card pieces inside to improve longevity of the fix, but I'll see how it holds up without them. I'm just glad to see this box booting for the first time!

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 12 2008, 05:30 AM)

Hey Will, help me.

I'm from Brazil and i'm trying to do your method but here i can't find nylon washers, can I do without them or not ?
I was thinking in method 1.
screw-mobo-metal washer-metal washer-heatsink.

Please, answer me

Thanks for the great tutorial

Ye you can just use metal washers if you cant get any nylons...

QUOTE(boffo123 @ Aug 12 2008, 09:27 AM)

Ah, silly me. I think 5mm is the diameter of the hole.

Anyways, I tried implementing the improved xclamp replacement using a spent Visa gift card. Turns out it was too thick, preventing the heatsinks from making contact. So, I'm afraid I had to leave it out and use the standard xclamp fix. This was in combination with heatgunning the bottom of the board to fix an E74 error. I hope it lasts. I'd rather have credit card pieces inside to improve longevity of the fix, but I'll see how it holds up without them. I'm just glad to see this box booting for the first time!

Ye it is pretty weird with the cards some work others are too thick, when you hold the card beside the chip die it should be just as high as the chip die, if it is higher it wont fit...

Hey I had a topic about this but I'm gonna start posting in here instead. I went out and got all the parts yesterday, put everything on hoping to have it fixed but still nothing. I started off with 1 red light and error E74, then I kept getting two red lights immediately after turning it on (which means it is overheating correct? and since it shuts itself off when I get two red lights how can it overheat when it can't even turn on?) Now I'm getting 1 red light and it will stay on for a couple of seconds but then it will supposedly overheat and the two red lights will come back. Does that mean I'm close to fixing it? But I did read in your tutorial that if it didn't work I would have to use a heat gun on it, so I'm probably going to go out and buy a heat gun tomorrow and try that out. I'm just wondering why I keep getting these two red lights? Did this happen to anybody else when they were fixing theirs?

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 12 2008, 11:57 AM)

Hey I had a topic about this but I'm gonna start posting in here instead. I went out and got all the parts yesterday, put everything on hoping to have it fixed but still nothing. I started off with 1 red light and error E74, then I kept getting two red lights immediately after turning it on (which means it is overheating correct? and since it shuts itself off when I get two red lights how can it overheat when it can't even turn on?) Now I'm getting 1 red light and it will stay on for a couple of seconds but then it will supposedly overheat and the two red lights will come back. Does that mean I'm close to fixing it? But I did read in your tutorial that if it didn't work I would have to use a heat gun on it, so I'm probably going to go out and buy a heat gun tomorrow and try that out. I'm just wondering why I keep getting these two red lights? Did this happen to anybody else when they were fixing theirs?

Your creditcard pieces are too thick so the chip die isnt making good contact with the heatsink.
Try to get a thinner card then it should work(I assume that your washers arent thicker than 2mm at all(either use 2x 1mm thick washers or 1x a 2mm thick washer) because this can be a reason as well).
If it still doesnt work then you can still get a heatgun...

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 12 2008, 05:57 AM)

Hey I had a topic about this but I'm gonna start posting in here instead. I went out and got all the parts yesterday, put everything on hoping to have it fixed but still nothing. I started off with 1 red light and error E74, then I kept getting two red lights immediately after turning it on (which means it is overheating correct? and since it shuts itself off when I get two red lights how can it overheat when it can't even turn on?) Now I'm getting 1 red light and it will stay on for a couple of seconds but then it will supposedly overheat and the two red lights will come back. Does that mean I'm close to fixing it? But I did read in your tutorial that if it didn't work I would have to use a heat gun on it, so I'm probably going to go out and buy a heat gun tomorrow and try that out. I'm just wondering why I keep getting these two red lights? Did this happen to anybody else when they were fixing theirs?

just use nylon washers, dont use metal ones.. i had the same issue.. its the spacing your CPU isnt making good contact with the heatsink

so basically if you used the correct hardware for the fix..
Youd have

SCREW - metal washer - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - metal washer - heatsink

you want

SCREW - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - heatsink

now you can use that setup for both the GPU and CPU to avoid bending of the mobo, but you can try it on the CPU itself.

I'm pretty sure the card is the right size but what tape did you use?

And I tried both of these methods in the guide:

http://xe.brothersof...schema_en_b.jpg

http://xe.brothersof...chema_en2_b.jpg

But after comparing the metal washers to the nylon washers, I'm pretty sure the nylon washers I got are 2 mm. So I'm going to just try it with the nylon washers on and see how that goes.

Ok I just tried it with just the nylon washers and it is giving me the 1 red light now. Back where I started again

But this is the first time I've gotten something other than the 2 red lights since taking it apart, so I know I successfully replaced the X-clamps. Feels good to finally have done something right lol. Couldn't have done that without your help guys but I'm still getting the E74 error. I didn't realize the measurements had to be that exact. That would also explain why my credit card pieces were useless, so I'm going to put those back on and try that out and if that doesn't work I suppose I'll have to get a heatgun?

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 12 2008, 06:18 PM)

just use nylon washers, dont use metal ones.. i had the same issue.. its the spacing your CPU isnt making good contact with the heatsink

so basically if you used the correct hardware for the fix..
Youd have

SCREW - metal washer - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - metal washer - heatsink

you want

SCREW - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - heatsink

now you can use that setup for both the GPU and CPU to avoid bending of the mobo, but you can try it on the CPU itself.

Using two washers under the mobo is pointless one is enough and as I said before already the number of washers that you have to use in between mobo and heatsink depends on the thickness of the washers, if you have 1mm thick washers use 2 if yours are 2mm thick only use one!

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 12 2008, 08:45 PM)

I'm pretty sure the card is the right size but what tape did you use?

And I tried both of these methods in the guide:

http://xe.brothersof...schema_en_b.jpg

http://xe.brothersof...chema_en2_b.jpg

But after comparing the metal washers to the nylon washers, I'm pretty sure the nylon washers I got are 2 mm. So I'm going to just try it with the nylon washers on and see how that goes.

Yes only use 1 of the 2mm nylons in between.
And use tape that is as thin as possible, thick electric tape can already be too thick and prevent the heatsink from making good contact...

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 12 2008, 12:18 PM)

just use nylon washers, dont use metal ones.. i had the same issue.. its the spacing your CPU isnt making good contact with the heatsink

so basically if you used the correct hardware for the fix..
Youd have

SCREW - metal washer - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - metal washer - heatsink

you want

SCREW - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - heatsink

now you can use that setup for both the GPU and CPU to avoid bending of the mobo, but you can try it on the CPU itself.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 12 2008, 03:16 PM)

Using two washers under the mobo is pointless one is enough and as I said before already the number of washers that you have to use in between mobo and heatsink depends on the thickness of the washers, if you have 1mm thick washers use 2 if yours are 2mm thick only use one!

hence the RED which would all relate to the correct thickness

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 12 2008, 09:30 PM)

hence the RED which would all relate to the correct thickness

Ah alright I apologize for that, I should have known better that you are not like that, lol.
Using two washers under the mobo is just unnecessary though, one is enough...

Holy shit it worked. It makes sense when I think about it but I have never fixed anything before so I really didn't expect it to, but after getting all the measurements right and putting the credit card pieces back in it started up just fine. You don't know how happy I am

Thank you so much for the help guys but I have one more question. How long do you think this will last?

Ok I guess I found out how long it will last

I thought I had it fixed, had just the motherboard out and I was running it for a couple of seconds, it took me to the dashboard and everything, then I turned it off and started to put it back into the metal casing. Plugged in the fans and DVD drive and everything, tried to start it up again, and got the E74 once again

I know I'm doing something right though so I'll try to tighten/loosen the screws and stuff and see what happens.

It appeares I am getting same error now. I am getting RROD with secondary error 0102.

So going to try this: http://xe.brothersof...php?n=xclampeng

After I have replaced the heatsinks, must I let it over heat, tighten screws and cool down and try again?

Thanks!

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 12 2008, 05:23 PM)

It appeares I am getting same error now. I am getting RROD with secondary error 0102.

So going to try this: http://xe.brothersof...php?n=xclampeng

After I have replaced the heatsinks, must I let it over heat, tighten screws and cool down and try again?
Thanks!

You only need to do those things if it didn't work the first time. For me I had the screws tightened all the way and had to let it overheat.

Well, what do you know!

Xbox now fully working! I tried the normal route of the x-clamp fixed, and it didn't work. Even when I overheated it.

So I added my small bits of card. Turned it on and let it overheat as it was now giving a 0102 code ( Cold soldering? )

2:30mins it overheated.

Turned off, tightened bolts some more. Turn back on and walla, its working!!

But for how long...

Now before I put it back together. What can I mod to make it cool better? Original fan shroud thingy is missing, so I made my own out of plastic. Anything else I can do to keep gpu cooler?

Thanks!

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 12 2008, 07:28 PM)

Now before I put it back together. What can I mod to make it cool better? Original fan shroud thingy is missing, so I made my own out of plastic. Anything else I can do to keep gpu cooler?

Crank the fans to 12v. But this will make your 360 a lot louder. Seal your shroud to the heat sink with tape.
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=467270

IPB Image

Well, as I said. The original shrud is missing. So I made a new one. However I am going to remake it like that one.

Thank you for the pictures. Much appreciated!

OK! Evereyone...
I'm here to say that I finally did the hybrid of Wilhelm's and RBJTech's MKI x-clamp replacement and the results were promising...
As I already mentioned my card pieces were too thick so I used rubber pieces instead.
The rubber pieces were cut in the same thickness as the die height (0.8mm that is) or even a bit more because the rubber shrinks under pressure.
This fixed a box without a single 0020 indicating that it's not making too much pressure.
Thanks to Wilhelm for his great tutorial...

I am so confused right now, I had everything right, followed the guide exactly and I finally fixed it like I said. It ran fine for a few minutes with just the mobo out. The first time I ran it and it worked it went straight to the dashboard, then I immediately turned it off, called some of my friends to tell them I finally fixed it and I was ready to get on Xbox Live. So I started putting it into the metal casing, plugged in the fans, DVD drive, and then when I get everything plugged back in it stops working? So I take the mobo back out and see if it will run with just the mobo like it was earlier but nope. I don't understand it at all it was working fine, I didn't change anything how does it just stop working like that? I took the heat sinks off to see that everything was still in place, and it was so I put them back on, adjusted the screws and tried a few more times but no luck. Also tried the baking method after that but still nothing. Heat gun is the only thing I haven't tried yet but I didn't think I would have to once I had it working earlier. Anybody have any clue what could possibly be wrong here?

Hey Chydog,

That's really odd.

I did the exact same thing last night. However I did i slightly different.

I put the heatsinks on while the mobo was out of the case, without tighten the bolts, just snug. Then I let it run for 2:30mins without any fans. It overheated, two red lights. So, I turned off and quickly tighten all bolts to heatsinks.

I then plugged it back in and all was working. So I put it back into the metal case, dvd rom ect. Tried turning it on again and was still working just fine.

Tried turning it on again this morning, still working. I will reasemble the whole box only once I have found a way to cool it properly as I need to redo the shroud.

Have you tried the above method? baked then tighten?

Bake then tighten? I need to try that seems like it would work thanks for the idea I'll let you know how it goes.

Just make sure the heatsink is on and touching the chips. Not tight, just snug. Then once baked, tighted quickly. Worked first time for me

Let me know how you get on.

Rob

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 04:04 AM)

I am so confused right now, I had everything right, followed the guide exactly and I finally fixed it like I said. It ran fine for a few minutes with just the mobo out. The first time I ran it and it worked it went straight to the dashboard, then I immediately turned it off, called some of my friends to tell them I finally fixed it and I was ready to get on Xbox Live. So I started putting it into the metal casing, plugged in the fans, DVD drive, and then when I get everything plugged back in it stops working? So I take the mobo back out and see if it will run with just the mobo like it was earlier but nope. I don't understand it at all it was working fine, I didn't change anything how does it just stop working like that? I took the heat sinks off to see that everything was still in place, and it was so I put them back on, adjusted the screws and tried a few more times but no luck. Also tried the baking method after that but still nothing. Heat gun is the only thing I haven't tried yet but I didn't think I would have to once I had it working earlier. Anybody have any clue what could possibly be wrong here?

Ill tell you what you did.. Did you start screwing the motherboard back to the casing.. with the screws underneath?

You probably bend the motherboard and cracked another solder point.

What your trying to accomplish with all this, your doing this and that but your MAIN goal is to keep the motherboard leveled while sitting in the case and making good contact with the cpu/gpu and obviously its hard since the motherboard is bend from MS "sweet" design.

So you have to get the perfect setup so that it sets nice and even in the case and while still making good contact.

So do the heatgun, apply this credit card fix.. and make it so that your motherboard is leveled and it doesnt get bend while your turning the case down. all the holes have to line up without you putting any pressure on anything.

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 12 2008, 10:27 PM)

Holy shit it worked. It makes sense when I think about it but I have never fixed anything before so I really didn't expect it to, but after getting all the measurements right and putting the credit card pieces back in it started up just fine. You don't know how happy I am

Thank you so much for the help guys but I have one more question. How long do you think this will last?

Look at your next post

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 12 2008, 10:55 PM)

Ok I guess I found out how long it will last

I thought I had it fixed, had just the motherboard out and I was running it for a couple of seconds, it took me to the dashboard and everything, then I turned it off and started to put it back into the metal casing. Plugged in the fans and DVD drive and everything, tried to start it up again, and got the E74 once again

I know I'm doing something right though so I'll try to tighten/loosen the screws and stuff and see what happens.

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 12 2008, 11:23 PM)

It appeares I am getting same error now. I am getting RROD with secondary error 0102.

So going to try this: http://xe.brothersof...php?n=xclampeng

After I have replaced the heatsinks, must I let it over heat, tighten screws and cool down and try again?
Thanks!

Nope you dont because you want to fix it just with the even pressure, you dont want to reconnect the solder balls temporarily because they are still under stress(otherwise the pressure would actually fix your problem).

QUOTE(ltkerr0r @ Aug 13 2008, 12:44 AM)

You only need to do those things if it didn't work the first time. For me I had the screws tightened all the way and had to let it overheat.

If you have got the screws tightened all the way you have to unscrew them until you found the perfect setting

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 01:28 AM)

Well, what do you know!

Xbox now fully working! I tried the normal route of the x-clamp fixed, and it didn't work. Even when I overheated it.

So I added my small bits of card. Turned it on and let it overheat as it was now giving a 0102 code ( Cold soldering? )

2:30mins it overheated.

Turned off, tightened bolts some more. Turn back on and walla, its working!!
But for how long...

Now before I put it back together. What can I mod to make it cool better? Original fan shroud thingy is missing, so I made my own out of plastic. Anything else I can do to keep gpu cooler?

Thanks!

Will most likely have been my version of the X-Clamp replacement that made it work then, since the overheating didnt do anything the first time already...
Do 12V mod and everything else that can be found in the FAQ under "Cooling Mods"

QUOTE(ltkerr0r @ Aug 13 2008, 03:38 AM)

Crank the fans to 12v. But this will make your 360 a lot louder. Seal your shroud to the heat sink with tape.
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=467270

IPB Image

If it is too loud you can also do the 9V mod it also moves a lot of air but it not that noisy

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 08:32 AM)

Well, as I said. The original shrud is missing. So I made a new one. However I am going to remake it like that one.

Thank you for the pictures. Much appreciated!

Good luck

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 13 2008, 04:00 PM)

Do 12V mod and everything else that can be found in the FAQ under "Cooling Mods"
If it is too loud you can also do the 9V mod it also moves a lot of air but it not that noisy
Good luck

Yes, it was your method.

I looked there and links are broken to the tutorials.

Anyidea how I can do the above mods or links to cooling mods?

I don't want to put the case back on as I want to make cooling better. I left the machine off for 12 hours, turned it on again this morning and still working.

It's in the metal case now I haven't closed it though

Thank you, I really do appreciate all your help. it's been great...now I know why I have always loved this forum!

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 13 2008, 08:55 AM)

OK! Evereyone...
I'm here to say that I finally did the hybrid of Wilhelm's and RBJTech's MKI x-clamp replacement and the results were promising...
As I already mentioned my card pieces were too thick so I used rubber pieces instead.
The rubber pieces were cut in the same thickness as the die height (0.8mm that is) or even a bit more because the rubber shrinks under pressure.
This fixed a box without a single 0020 indicating that it's not making too much pressure.
Thanks to Wilhelm for his great tutorial...

Ye thanks for sending me the pictures finally(1.2 KB/s with his cheap ass Dial up connection

)
I will add it later on because I will have to add something else to my tutorial as bosnia just told me...
Expect it to be done around 7PM or so

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 10:04 AM)

I am so confused right now, I had everything right, followed the guide exactly and I finally fixed it like I said. It ran fine for a few minutes with just the mobo out. The first time I ran it and it worked it went straight to the dashboard, then I immediately turned it off, called some of my friends to tell them I finally fixed it and I was ready to get on Xbox Live. So I started putting it into the metal casing, plugged in the fans, DVD drive, and then when I get everything plugged back in it stops working? So I take the mobo back out and see if it will run with just the mobo like it was earlier but nope. I don't understand it at all it was working fine, I didn't change anything how does it just stop working like that? I took the heat sinks off to see that everything was still in place, and it was so I put them back on, adjusted the screws and tried a few more times but no luck. Also tried the baking method after that but still nothing. Heat gun is the only thing I haven't tried yet but I didn't think I would have to once I had it working earlier. Anybody have any clue what could possibly be wrong here?

Since bosnia told me about it on MSN just a second ago I assume you are the guy he was talking about^^
What is your washer setup under the motherboard and how thick is the head of the screw and the washer?
Did you drill holes in the case for the screw heads to fit through
And what is your error code, please check it and post it?

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 10:25 AM)

Hey Chydog,

That's really odd.

I did the exact same thing last night. However I did i slightly different.

I put the heatsinks on while the mobo was out of the case, without tighten the bolts, just snug. Then I let it run for 2:30mins without any fans. It overheated, two red lights. So, I turned off and quickly tighten all bolts to heatsinks.

I then plugged it back in and all was working. So I put it back into the metal case, dvd rom ect. Tried turning it on again and was still working just fine.

Tried turning it on again this morning, still working. I will reasemble the whole box only once I have found a way to cool it properly as I need to redo the shroud.

Have you tried the above method? baked then tighten?

Read the first part of my reply, I already commented on it...

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 12:17 PM)

Bake then tighten? I need to try that seems like it would work thanks for the idea I'll let you know how it goes.

Read the first part of my reply, I already commented on it...

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 02:00 PM)

Just make sure the heatsink is on and touching the chips. Not tight, just snug. Then once baked, tighted quickly. Worked first time for me

Let me know how you get on.

Rob

Read the first part of my reply, I already commented on it...

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 13 2008, 03:17 PM)

Ill tell you what you did.. Did you start screwing the motherboard back to the casing.. with the screws underneath?

You probably bend the motherboard and cracked another solder point.

What your trying to accomplish with all this, your doing this and that but your MAIN goal is to keep the motherboard leveled while sitting in the case and making good contact with the cpu/gpu and obviously its hard since the motherboard is bend from MS "sweet" design.

So you have to get the perfect setup so that it sets nice and even in the case and while still making good contact.

So do the heatgun, apply this credit card fix.. and make it so that your motherboard is leveled and it doesnt get bend while your turning the case down. all the holes have to line up without you putting any pressure on anything.

I agree with you thats what is clearly said in my tutorial( in the end

)

Before you do anything like that get your secondary error code though, because if you did it like that you flexed the complete mainboard which means that the problem must no longer be GPU related, it can be a cold solder joint under the RAM the HANA chip or the Southbridge even(basically everything that is using BGA solder balls)

I will make the notice bigger so that people dont forget it...
Add some nice graphics so that people understand the meaning.
This is why updating and adding M2X findings will take a bit longer

Will, sorry to be direct like that but i don't speak english well and this way a have less chances to write erroneous.

My XBOX E74 and with some video errors, like green smoke on grid.
I do the xclamp replacement only on the gpu or gpu and cpu too ?
If I drill the holes for the screw heads and after i need to use the MS default, can i use, hmm, reversible?

thanks

Not sure what I did right but after trying to bake then tighten it wouldn't work so I messed with the screws a little bit and it just started working been working for a few hours now. But I ran it in the case with the fans and DVD drive and it I get the 2 lights in 2 to 3 minutes. Is this normal? Will it run longer once I get everything put back together?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 13 2008, 10:36 AM)

Since bosnia told me about it on MSN just a second ago I assume you are the guy he was talking about^^
What is your washer setup under the motherboard and how thick is the head of the screw and the washer?
Did you drill holes in the case for the screw heads to fit through
And what is your error code, please check it and post it?

Yea the screw head is 3 mm and I don't have any washers under the motherboard I just have the 2 mm nylon washer above it. I did drill holes but the screw heads aren't going through them it seems like something else on the motherboard is keeping it from going down but I can't see what. And I was getting E74 (unless you mean the 4 digit one? I never checked that one) but not anymore since its working now

But I'm also concerned about how quickly I'm getting the 2 red lights when I'm playing its coming in a couple of minutes and then when I check the motherboard it isn't hot at all.

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 09:31 PM)

Yea the screw head is 3 mm and I don't have any washers under the motherboard I just have the 2 mm nylon washer above it. I did drill holes but the screw heads aren't going through them it seems like something else on the motherboard is keeping it from going down but I can't see what. And I was getting E74 (unless you mean the 4 digit one? I never checked that one) but not anymore since its working now

But I'm also concerned about how quickly I'm getting the 2 red lights when I'm playing its coming in a couple of minutes and then when I check the motherboard it isn't hot at all.

Did you see if the heatsink it's snug?
Because 2-3 minutes is to fast to overheat.
I think the heatsink is not fixed well

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 13 2008, 08:13 PM)

Will, sorry to be direct like that but i don't speak english well and this way a have less chances to write erroneous.

My XBOX E74 and with some video errors, like green smoke on grid.
I do the xclamp replacement only on the gpu or gpu and cpu too ?
If I drill the holes for the screw heads and after i need to use the MS default, can i use, hmm, reversible?

thanks

Dunno what you mean really, you should do it on CPU and GPU in general to free the mobo of all flexing that might cause it to fail again sooner or later...
if you drill holes you use machine screws, no microsoft stuff.
I am actually updating the tutorial still I will tell you when it is done, read through it then there will be detailed graphics...

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 10:13 PM)

Not sure what I did right but after trying to bake then tighten it wouldn't work so I messed with the screws a little bit and it just started working been working for a few hours now. But I ran it in the case with the fans and DVD drive and it I get the 2 lights in 2 to 3 minutes. Is this normal? Will it run longer once I get everything put back together?

Means the thermal compound doesnt work properly
clean it all and reapply it make sure the layer is thin etc...

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 13 2008, 10:31 PM)

Yea the screw head is 3 mm and I don't have any washers under the motherboard I just have the 2 mm nylon washer above it. I did drill holes but the screw heads aren't going through them it seems like something else on the motherboard is keeping it from going down but I can't see what. And I was getting E74 (unless you mean the 4 digit one? I never checked that one) but not anymore since its working now

But I'm also concerned about how quickly I'm getting the 2 red lights when I'm playing its coming in a couple of minutes and then when I check the motherboard it isn't hot at all.

Just another sign that the heat isnt transfered to the heatsinks properly...
If it returns drill holes through the case and try using spring washers under the mobo this helped for me often...
Same for you check my tutorial as soon as I post that I am done with updating there is a lot of new stuff expecially on the drilling and preventing flexing while installing it in the metal case...

Don't know how I missed 10 pages worth of this....but - it looks good. Theory is sound, more area is distributing the force on the GPU/CPU. Your pictures are extremely helpful also, plenty of pics (in focus even - lol). So many Tut's have blurry pics...drives me nuts!

Started working for a while now thanks a lot guys played for about 10 minutes and it works fine. I'm gonna try it again later but so far so good. Couldn't have done it without your awesome guide Wilhelm.

QUOTE(lawdawg0931 @ Aug 13 2008, 10:53 PM)

Don't know how I missed 10 pages worth of this....but - it looks good. Theory is sound, more area is distributing the force on the GPU/CPU. Your pictures are extremely helpful also, plenty of pics (in focus even - lol). So many Tut's have blurry pics...drives me nuts!

Thanks a lot mate, is basically based on your tutorial will add the hybrid of this and RBJTechs with the next update.

I just wanted to let you guys know I am done with the updating of the tutorial, so you can check it out now.

Changelog:
- Added new alternative method for people who dont have credit/phonecards with the proper thickness(look at 8.3) )
- Added notices and graphics for the correct installation in the metal case after applying the fix( look for the end below 10) )
- Changed some lines that were unclear and led to confusion

At this point I would like to thank M2X for the eraser method and the development of the soon coming hybrid method(need some more pictures, graphics etc.) and also bosnia who notified me of the problem with the installation of the mainboard in the metal case which often led to a return of the hardware issues because of the flexing caused by the gap in between mainboard and metal case...

Well, I have just closed up my Xbox after doing a x-clamp fix. I turned it on and all was ok. Now I don't have a game or controller to test it. So I used my microsoft remote, which woprks fine and played a music cd while going through the whole setup of the console. It was about 40 mins later.

I decided to turn off and on again to make sure its fine.

So, turned off...

Turned on, I get one red light and quickly do a secondary code test: 1021. ( What's this mean? )

So I turned it off and on again, all green lights and all okay. Turn off and on again, still ok.

Every now and then it will either give RROD or 1 red and turnng it off and on again it's fine..

Most times it will start fine. Just those odd times it goes red..

Any ideas why?

huauahuahu
sorry will, i know that i need to use machine screw but what i was saying is that if i drill the holes, it is irreversible, isn't it?

because if i want in the future to use the default ms fix mode ( with x clamp )
understood?

tks again man

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 05:35 PM)

Well, I have just closed up my Xbox after doing a x-clamp fix. I turned it on and all was ok. Now I don't have a game or controller to test it. So I used my microsoft remote, which woprks fine and played a music cd while going through the whole setup of the console. It was about 40 mins later.

I decided to turn off and on again to make sure its fine.

So, turned off...

Turned on, I get one red light and quickly do a secondary code test: 1021. ( What's this mean? )

So I turned it off and on again, all green lights and all okay. Turn off and on again, still ok.

Every now and then it will either give RROD or 1 red and turnng it off and on again it's fine..

Most times it will start fine. Just those odd times it goes red..

Any ideas why?

Well the X clamp replacement isn't a good solution really. It just smashes the broken solder joints together, and puts a lot of pressure on all of the other ones. With the heat build up and expansion and contraction of the motherboard, it is going to break again sooner or later, best upgrade your cooling, and hope for the best.

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 13 2008, 11:35 PM)

Well, I have just closed up my Xbox after doing a x-clamp fix. I turned it on and all was ok. Now I don't have a game or controller to test it. So I used my microsoft remote, which woprks fine and played a music cd while going through the whole setup of the console. It was about 40 mins later.

I decided to turn off and on again to make sure its fine.

So, turned off...

Turned on, I get one red light and quickly do a secondary code test: 1021. ( What's this mean? )

So I turned it off and on again, all green lights and all okay. Turn off and on again, still ok.

Every now and then it will either give RROD or 1 red and turnng it off and on again it's fine..

Most times it will start fine. Just those odd times it goes red..

Any ideas why?

E73/1021 is a cold joint under the Southbridge caused by the flexing probably.
If it becomes permenent you will have to reflow the Southbridge chip with a heatgun...

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 14 2008, 12:06 AM)

huauahuahu
sorry will, i know that i need to use machine screw but what i was saying is that if i drill the holes, it is irreversible, isn't it?

because if i want in the future to use the default ms fix mode ( with x clamp )
understood?

tks again man

Yes you cant undo drilling holes, once you drilled them there is no way back...

QUOTE(TheBestXboxModder @ Aug 14 2008, 12:44 AM)

Well the X clamp replacement isn't a good solution really. It just smashes the broken solder joints together, and puts a lot of pressure on all of the other ones. With the heat build up and expansion and contraction of the motherboard, it is going to break again sooner or later, best upgrade your cooling, and hope for the best.

Ye but this one doesnt need as much pressure as the other because it has a larger surface area..

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 14 2008, 12:46 AM)

Thanks a lot mate, is basically based on your tutorial will add the hybrid of this and RBJTechs with the next update.
I just wanted to let you guys know I am done with the updating of the tutorial, so you can check it out now.

Changelog:
- Added new alternative method for people who dont have credit/phonecards with the proper thickness(look at 8.3) )
- Added notices and graphics for the correct installation in the metal case after applying the fix( look for the end below 10) )
- Changed some lines that were unclear and led to confusion

At this point I would like to thank M2X for the eraser method and the development of the soon coming hybrid method(need some more pictures, graphics etc.) and also bosnia who notified me of the problem with the installation of the mainboard in the metal case which often led to a return of the hardware issues because of the flexing caused by the gap in between mainboard and metal case...

Glad I could help dude.
If you ever need any more pictures just say the word.
Hope that this hybrid method will solve RRoDs like 0102 for ever.
I also hope I could get my hands on several more RRoDed boxes and I could test this hybrid method further.
The main advantage of this hybrid method is that there would be no need for a shim. As sometimes a shim is required for some retard boxes to put the die under more and equal pressure...

I've turned iton and off a lot and staying green for now. I think when it breaks again, I can get the GPU/CPU southbridge reflowed as I know someone who has the equipment. Will this help?

I decided to try to this method last night. I reflow with heat-gun on both side of board as usual. After the board cool down, I placed those Credit Card pieces on with some AS5 to keep them stable. I used oval head screw+spring washers -- board -- nylon+metal washers. I tight each screw and check each spring washers bearly flatten then I released each screw out and yep, the heatsink has AS5 on.(which mean the heatsink contact to GPU die if spring washers flatten up) After I put the screw and washer back, I tight screw to flat up the spring washer again, this times, I release each screw about quarter counterclockwise to avoil over pressure on the GPU die. Without the board back to case, I power it up, then it still give me 3right with S-code 0102. What else can I try? I've tried to release each screw about aother quarter of couterclockwise and do seem to fix that S-code 0102.

I was wondering about the metal washers used as heatsinks for the RAM. How are they kept in place?

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 14 2008, 08:44 AM)

Glad I could help dude.
If you ever need any more pictures just say the word.
Hope that this hybrid method will solve RRoDs like 0102 for ever.
I also hope I could get my hands on several more RRoDed boxes and I could test this hybrid method further.
The main advantage of this hybrid method is that there would be no need for a shim. As sometimes a shim is required for some retard boxes to put the die under more and equal pressure...

GO TAKE SOME PICTURES THEN GOD DAMMIT!!!

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 14 2008, 09:22 AM)

I've turned iton and off a lot and staying green for now. I think when it breaks again, I can get the GPU/CPU southbridge reflowed as I know someone who has the equipment. Will this help?

Just the Southbridge->GPU area, no CPU...(do you know where the Southbridge is actually?)

QUOTE(Onimu @ Aug 14 2008, 11:19 AM)

I decided to try to this method last night. I reflow with heat-gun on both side of board as usual. After the board cool down, I placed those Credit Card pieces on with some AS5 to keep them stable. I used oval head screw+spring washers -- board -- nylon+metal washers. I tight each screw and check each spring washers bearly flatten then I released each screw out and yep, the heatsink has AS5 on.(which mean the heatsink contact to GPU die if spring washers flatten up) After I put the screw and washer back, I tight screw to flat up the spring washer again, this times, I release each screw about quarter counterclockwise to avoil over pressure on the GPU die. Without the board back to case, I power it up, then it still give me 3right with S-code 0102. What else can I try? I've tried to release each screw about aother quarter of couterclockwise and do seem to fix that S-code 0102.

Hmm thats weird, there is a tiny chance that it is RAM/CPU related, have you looked into that yet?
Did you replace the X-Clamps for both?
And how and for how long did you heatgun it and which area did you concentrate on?

QUOTE(boffo123 @ Aug 14 2008, 05:42 PM)

I was wondering about the metal washers used as heatsinks for the RAM. How are they kept in place?

With thermal compound for the first after that by the pressure of the heatsink..

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 14 2008, 08:12 PM)

Just the Southbridge->GPU area, no CPU...(do you know where the Southbridge is actually?)

No, I don't.

Is it near the GPU?

Which is better, reflow or heatgun or is that the same thing?

So far the box has been fine....weird..

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 14 2008, 09:00 PM)

No, I don't.

Is it near the GPU?

Which is better, reflow or heatgun or is that the same thing?

So far the box has been fine....weird..

You are lucky I created a graphic for someone yesterday, he also asked what he is supposed to reflow with the heatgun...

To reflow is basically just melting the solder balls under the chips to make them get their old form back...
You can do this either with a heatgun or a reflow oven/ rework station.
Since you dont sound like a professional the heatgun will be your option unless you know someone who uses this equipment

Here is the picture of the area you have to heatgun (your area is marked in red)
http://xe.brothersof...ethernet_sb.jpg

Follow the instructions in my heatgunning tutorial exactly -> link is in my signature

Short explanation of the process.
Heatgun the area marked in blue from the bottom first, 1 min preheat, 4 minutes on high.
Let it cool down for 45 minutes.
Isolate the top and now do the same procedure to the top of the mainboard(what you can actually see on the picture), 1 min preheat, 4 minutes on high.
Wait another 45 minutes, then carefully remove the isolation and avoid flexing the mainboard all the time every warping can cause another cold joint...
Apply the x-clamp replacement as usually after that it should work perfectly.
Also dont panic no matter what happens, dont touch the mainboard after/while heatgunning...
The isolation sometimes starts smoking a bit it happened to me a few times, same rule here, dont panic, as long as you dont see a flame it is fine lol

( the smoking will stop after a minute or so and you will find slightly brown but not burned isolation afterwards)...

Hey

Thank you very much. I know a friend who had a machine at work that can reflow BGA solder joints. At the moment I turn the Xbox on it RROD so I just turn it off and on again and its fine I just watched a dvd on it with no problem when ( not if) it dies completely, I will get my friend to follow your tutorial on my mainboard.

I appreciate your help.

Once I do this, the RROD should come back as long as I am using the X-clamp fix and not the original way MS bolted it, on right?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 14 2008, 11:12 AM)

Hmm thats weird, there is a tiny chance that it is RAM/CPU related, have you looked into that yet?
Did you replace the X-Clamps for both?
And how and for how long did you heatgun it and which area did you concentrate on?

5 mins on each side and cooling times about 40mins. xclamp on both cpu/gpu, but this board has most problem on gpu side. Couple times overheat gpu method fixed but can last long.

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 14 2008, 10:30 PM)

Hey

Thank you very much. I know a friend who had a machine at work that can reflow BGA solder joints. At the moment I turn the Xbox on it RROD so I just turn it off and on again and its fine I just watched a dvd on it with no problem when ( not if) it dies completely, I will get my friend to follow your tutorial on my mainboard.

I appreciate your help.

Once I do this, the RROD should come back as long as I am using the X-clamp fix and not the original way MS bolted it, on right?

Ye but let him use his own settings heatgun temps are not the same to his, he will know how to do it...

If you fix it like that apply the X-Clamp Fix with as few pressure as possible, the X-Clamps will fuck it up again for sure if you put them back on, go for the X-Clamp Fix.

QUOTE(Onimu @ Aug 14 2008, 10:41 PM)

5 mins on each side and cooling times about 40mins. xclamp on both cpu/gpu, but this board has most problem on gpu side. Couple times overheat gpu method fixed but can last long.

Hmmm guess the overheating fucked the solder balls up pretty much then, do you have the possibility to get it reballed cheaply maybe?

Just so I get this right..

Once he has reflowed it, I just apply x-clamp fix as per normal?

Thanks bud really appreciate your help!

Yes, reflow the BGA, and apply machine screws and washers.

Just giving you an update on my 360, been working for two days now just as good as it was when I first got it. Played some Call of Duty on it for a couple hours earlier and still fine. Thanks a lot for this tutorial and your help. I got one more question though, from your experience how long does this last?

Will, one of the old bolts of the CPU heatsink it's impossbile to put off.

What I can do? I have already prepare the mobo with the credit card pieces the only thing that lasts it is this last one old bolt.

please help.

thanks

hey, with the heatgun I 'melt' the old bolt and i succeed.
there's a tip.

QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 15 2008, 12:08 AM)

Just so I get this right..

Once he has reflowed it, I just apply x-clamp fix as per normal?

Thanks bud really appreciate your help!

Ye as normal but you tighten the screws less because you dont have to fix it with pressure...

QUOTE(TheBestXboxModder @ Aug 15 2008, 02:24 AM)

Yes, reflow the BGA, and apply machine screws and washers.

QUOTE(Chydog @ Aug 15 2008, 03:10 AM)

Just giving you an update on my 360, been working for two days now just as good as it was when I first got it. Played some Call of Duty on it for a couple hours earlier and still fine. Thanks a lot for this tutorial and your help. I got one more question though, from your experience how long does this last?

I guess you are the guy who had to overheat it to get it to work and you had E74?
If so I give it a month...

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 15 2008, 03:13 AM)

Will, one of the old bolts of the CPU heatsink it's impossbile to put off.

What I can do? I have already prepare the mobo with the credit card pieces the only thing that lasts it is this last one old bolt.

please help.

thanks

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 15 2008, 04:31 AM)

hey, with the heatgun I 'melt' the old bolt and i succeed.
there's a tip.

Do you mean the original bolts?
They easily break off sometimes and are a pain in the arse to remove thenI will try that the next time this happens...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 15 2008, 07:46 AM)

Ye as normal but you tighten the screws less because you dont have to fix it with pressure...
I guess you are the guy who had to overheat it to get it to work and you had E74?
If so I give it a month...
Do you mean the original bolts?
They easily break off sometimes and are a pain in the arse to remove thenI will try that the next time this happens...

ye ye, the original bolt.

I have just done this fix and when I turned in on it showed up 2 red lights about 5 seconds after I turned it on what should I do now tighten the screws?

I have tightenend up the CPU heatsink and now it brings up the 3 red lights then 2 after a while left it for about 2 minutes turned off let cool then I turned it on again and still 3 lights I have played around withe the screws and it still does not work I think I might try without the credit card and see what happens.

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 16 2008, 05:29 AM)

I have just done this fix and when I turned in on it showed up 2 red lights about 5 seconds after I turned it on what should I do now tighten the screws?

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 16 2008, 08:04 AM)

I have tightenend up the CPU heatsink and now it brings up the 3 red lights then 2 after a while left it for about 2 minutes turned off let cool then I turned it on again and still 3 lights I have played around withe the screws and it still does not work I think I might try without the credit card and see what happens.

Your creditcard pieces will be too thick, or you put them on a capacitor or so.
Try M2Xs eraser thing if you dont have any thinner creditcards...
Also make sure that you cleaned the chip dies and applied the thermal compound properly(if there is no thermal compound on the heatsink you can rule this out)

Also tell us whats your secondary error code because it might not even be GPU related and you could be trying to fix the wrong thing....

I tried it without the credit card and it still does not work I have cleaned it and put Artic Silver, I think the credit card was .4mm thick I used 1 Washer and 1 Nylon washer on both sides of the Motherboard.

This it not the first time I have fixed this last week I replaced the x clamps on the GPU as the xbox would freeze up after a while I left the CPU the same , when I did this fix it was working fine for about 20 hours running time.

At the moment the xbox does not bring up any codes as nothing comes on the TV just 3 red lights, I have not done the Heat gun trick as that looks a bit hard plus I was to lazy.

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 16 2008, 05:23 PM)

I tried it without the credit card and it still does not work I have cleaned it and put Artic Silver, I think the credit card was .4mm thick I used 1 Washer and 1 Nylon washer on both sides of the Motherboard.

This it not the first time I have fixed this last week I replaced the x clamps on the GPU as the xbox would freeze up after a while I left the CPU the same , when I did this fix it was working fine for about 20 hours running time.

At the moment the xbox does not bring up any codes as nothing comes on the TV just 3 red lights, I have not done the Heat gun trick as that looks a bit hard plus I was to lazy.

It never shows any error codes on the TV for 3 red lights...
Get the secondary error code, there is a tutorial at the stickies, just hit the back button of your browser...

Hey Will, again, after another heatgun and after your new method of Xclamp Replacement, my Xbox on GTA4 gave some artefacts and I turned off the xbox and waited some hours.
I turned on again and it's ok but the artefacts show that nothing have changed.

It's some that I can do ?

edit----

no, playing some games, and turning off and turning on again, i have E74.
What I can do ?
The artefacts is from the memories? ( i think )

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 17 2008, 06:56 AM)

Hey Will, again, after another heatgun and after your new method of Xclamp Replacement, my Xbox on GTA4 gave some artefacts and I turned off the xbox and waited some hours.
I turned on again and it's ok but the artefacts show that nothing have changed.

It's some that I can do ?

edit----

no, playing some games, and turning off and turning on again, i have E74.
What I can do ?
The artefacts is from the memories? ( i think )

Well if it shows E74 the artifacts will have been scaler chip related and since you did the x-clamp replacement already you will have to reflow it with a heatgun.
Use my tutorial and concentrate on the GPU->(H)ANA chip area

ok thanks
I checked the code and I'm getting 0110 which is a Ram Error do I have to do the Heat gun method to fix this if so do I just heat up the Ram area or the whole board?

Tried the credit card pieces on a 3RRoD machine today & it failed.

Machine had 0102 error & i use the lawdawg method all the time with a fabulous success rate.

I cut the pieces, held them in place with a touch of AS-5 until the H/S went on, tightened up the screws to my usual starting torque & still had 3 red lights.
Did my usual bake then tightened up the screws, still 3 red lights but error had changed to 0020.
Tightened up more, still red lights. couldnt get the bolts any tighter so i removed the credit card pieces, refitted the H/S & it booted with a green ring 1st attempt.

Nice idea but i cant see me using it again.

QUOTE(slimgrip @ Aug 17 2008, 05:38 PM)

Tried the credit card pieces on a 3RRoD machine today & it failed.

Machine had 0102 error & i use the lawdawg method all the time with a fabulous success rate.

I cut the pieces, held them in place with a touch of AS-5 until the H/S went on, tightened up the screws to my usual starting torque & still had 3 red lights.
Did my usual bake then tightened up the screws, still 3 red lights but error had changed to 0020.
Tightened up more, still red lights. couldnt get the bolts any tighter so i removed the credit card pieces, refitted the H/S & it booted with a green ring 1st attempt.

Nice idea but i cant see me using it again.

You tightened the screws up too much mate.
It always shows 0020 if you do that...
You have to keep adjusting the tightness of the screws until it works, once you finally found the proper setting the chip is sitting perfectly flat on the solderballs...

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 17 2008, 10:16 AM)

ok thanks
I checked the code and I'm getting 0110 which is a Ram Error do I have to do the Heat gun method to fix this if so do I just heat up the Ram area or the whole board?

Reflow the RAM with a heatgun, first from below then from the top after letting it cool down.
Just check out my tutorial you can find the link in my signature it is all explained in there.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 17 2008, 06:31 PM)

You tightened the screws up too much mate.
It always shows 0020 if you do that...
You have to keep adjusting the tightness of the screws until it works, once you finally found the proper setting the chip is sitting perfectly flat on the solderballs...

I always start off with the screws finger tightened then tighten until green lights so it wasnt a tightness issue.
As soon as i removed the CC pieces & refitted the H/S it booted with the bolts at finger tightness.
I then tightened them snugly with a screwdriver & it still worked.

If i have the time on my next one ill give it another try as it does seem a good idea.
The card i used was a door key type from a holiday. same thickness as a bank card but without the embossed digits.

Ive never had a 0102 change to 0020 previously & ive fixed a lot of RRoD consoles & put lots of torque on the bolts.

Slim

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 17 2008, 08:21 AM)

Well if it shows E74 the artifacts will have been scaler chip related and since you did the x-clamp replacement already you will have to reflow it with a heatgun.
Use my tutorial and concentrate on the GPU->(H)ANA chip area

Will, I already done it and after two or three days playing the artifacts came again.
I tried to use the heatgun on the bottom and on the front.

What should I do?

I will give the heatgun a go today is it worth putting washers on the Ram as well?

I just did the heatgun now it shows up 0200 I started the screws very loose then tighter and no fix I might loosen again and try it again if that does not work I will take credit card out.

QUOTE(slimgrip @ Aug 17 2008, 09:37 PM)

I always start off with the screws finger tightened then tighten until green lights so it wasnt a tightness issue.
As soon as i removed the CC pieces & refitted the H/S it booted with the bolts at finger tightness.
I then tightened them snugly with a screwdriver & it still worked.

If i have the time on my next one ill give it another try as it does seem a good idea.
The card i used was a door key type from a holiday. same thickness as a bank card but without the embossed digits.

Ive never had a 0102 change to 0020 previously & ive fixed a lot of RRoD consoles & put lots of torque on the bolts.

Slim

Well like Wilhelm said, the 0020 is cause by overtightening the screws. All the boxes that I have fixed so far have shown me 0020 for at least once.

You got that because you are using CC pieces and that creates even more pressure on the chip overall and you didn't see any 0020 after using Lawdawg's because the pressure in there is much less and concentrated on the die itself than the pressure created by Lawdawg's. If you snug the screws on Lawdawg's real snug, then you'll see some crappy 0020 for sure!!

Trust me...

And the RRoD will return if you use Lawdawg's method alone (Trust me on this one too!

)

BTW if you feel that the CC pieces are making you troubles (IE wrong thickness etc.) then use rubber instead.

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 18 2008, 01:19 PM)

And the RRoD will return if you use Lawdawg's method alone (Trust me on this one too!

)

Ive fixed more consoles than i care to count using lawdawgs method.
My refail rate is marginal & im always looking to improve hence why i tried this trick out

If you read my original post again properly youll see i started off with the bolts finger tight & gradually increased the torque. Original error was 0102 but after the X-clamp & CC pieces it changed to 0020 and stayed that way whatever torque was applied! Minimum or maximum torque!
CC Pieces removed, H/S reapplied & booted properly first time.

QUOTE(slimgrip @ Aug 17 2008, 08:07 PM)

I always start off with the screws finger tightened then tighten until green lights so it wasnt a tightness issue.
As soon as i removed the CC pieces & refitted the H/S it booted with the bolts at finger tightness.
I then tightened them snugly with a screwdriver & it still worked.

If i have the time on my next one ill give it another try as it does seem a good idea.
The card i used was a door key type from a holiday. same thickness as a bank card but without the embossed digits.

Ive never had a 0102 change to 0020 previously & ive fixed a lot of RRoD consoles & put lots of torque on the bolts.

Slim

Alright, good luck this time...

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 17 2008, 10:30 PM)

Will, I already done it and after two or three days playing the artifacts came again.
I tried to use the heatgun on the bottom and on the front.

What should I do?

Hmm what do the artifacts look like exactly?
It could also be an overheating GPU or so...

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 18 2008, 04:56 AM)

I will give the heatgun a go today is it worth putting washers on the Ram as well?

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 18 2008, 10:08 AM)

I just did the heatgun now it shows up 0200 I started the screws very loose then tighter and no fix I might loosen again and try it again if that does not work I will take credit card out.

Hmm http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0200 is pretty rare, are you sure you dont mean 0020?
There is not much information on it but some guy fixed it by heatgunning the GPU so if tightening/loosening the screws doesnt fix it try that...

QUOTE(M2X @ Aug 18 2008, 02:19 PM)

Well like Wilhelm said, the 0020 is cause by overtightening the screws. All the boxes that I have fixed so far have shown me 0020 for at least once.

You got that because you are using CC pieces and that creates even more pressure on the chip overall and you didn't see any 0020 after using Lawdawg's because the pressure in there is much less and concentrated on the die itself than the pressure created by Lawdawg's. If you snug the screws on Lawdawg's real snug, then you'll see some crappy 0020 for sure!!

Trust me...

And the RRoD will return if you use Lawdawg's method alone (Trust me on this one too!

)

BTW if you feel that the CC pieces are making you troubles (IE wrong thickness etc.) then use rubber instead.

Yep same here....

QUOTE(slimgrip @ Aug 18 2008, 03:40 PM)

Ive fixed more consoles than i care to count using lawdawgs method.
My refail rate is marginal & im always looking to improve hence why i tried this trick out

If you read my original post again properly youll see i started off with the bolts finger tight & gradually increased the torque. Original error was 0102 but after the X-clamp & CC pieces it changed to 0020 and stayed that way whatever torque was applied! Minimum or maximum torque!
CC Pieces removed, H/S reapplied & booted properly first time.

Will just have been bad luck.
It is really difficult to find the perfect setting for it to work perfectly I usually have to adjust it a few times until the chip is getting even pressure outside and inside.
There are various reasons why Lawdawgs might have fixed it rather 0102 can also be a cold joint under the RAM or CPU so the flexing caused by lawdawgs might have reconnected it or so...
It is questionable how long it will work like that though...

I will give it another try when i have more time.
The console i repaired yesterday i only had a limited amount of time.

Yeah I got 0200 then I took the credit card out and tried again now it shows 0020 I have played with the screws so many times and it still shows up the same code.

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 19 2008, 02:35 PM)

Yeah I got 0200 then I took the credit card out and tried again now it shows 0020 I have played with the screws so many times and it still shows up the same code.

Hmmmm
Guess you will have to heatgun it then

Check out my tutorial for that and concentrate on the GPU/RAM area...

Testing the hybrid method in a second

Took a look at your site it is pretty sick with the updates you have done.

QUOTE(xboxmodder32 @ Aug 19 2008, 07:30 PM)

Took a look at your site it is pretty sick with the updates you have done.

Thanks mate.
I am pretty much done with the error code editing adding etc.
Am actually working on the profile editing form, I am kind of done with that, just the on-the-fly session-key updating doesnt work properly yet and since I am pretty busy with college at the moment I dont have much time to work on it...

Still got a lot of new ideas, the only problem is really the time

Wilhelm

I got 0021 once by blowing a transistor that supplied 5v to a 3.3v regulator. So I think, no 3.3v from this one regulator, can give you 0021. (I Just soldered a wire from 5v somewhere else to the input leg of the 3.3v regulator bypassing the transistor and it is working great)

Sorry I meant to say after I did the heat gun I got 0021 then I took the credit card out then got 0020 should doing the heatgun again fix it Last last time I had the heatgun set to 600c for 3 minutes.

QUOTE(xboxmodder32 @ Aug 20 2008, 12:09 AM)

I got 0021 once by blowing a transistor that supplied 5v to a 3.3v regulator. So I think, no 3.3v from this one regulator, can give you 0021. (I Just soldered a wire from 5v somewhere else to the input leg of the 3.3v regulator bypassing the transistor and it is working great)

Ye the 002* can all be power problems, your transistor was most likely the one over the NAND.
If you draw power from it you also get 002* very often...

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 20 2008, 02:33 AM)

Sorry I meant to say after I did the heat gun I got 0021 then I took the credit card out then got 0020 should doing the heatgun again fix it Last last time I had the heatgun set to 600c for 3 minutes.

Ah the credit card fixed it then...
The 0021 is Southbridge related so concentrate on the Southbridge-> GPU area
And do it for 4 minutes otherwise it wont reflow properly, follow the instructions in my tutorial
And start with fewer tightness because 0020 comes up when you overtighten the screws...

QUOTE(slimgrip @ Aug 17 2008, 08:38 AM)

Tried the credit card pieces on a 3RRoD machine today & it failed.

Machine had 0102 error & i use the lawdawg method all the time with a fabulous success rate.

I cut the pieces, held them in place with a touch of AS-5 until the H/S went on, tightened up the screws to my usual starting torque & still had 3 red lights.
Did my usual bake then tightened up the screws, still 3 red lights but error had changed to 0020.
Tightened up more, still red lights. couldnt get the bolts any tighter so i removed the credit card pieces, refitted the H/S & it booted with a green ring 1st attempt.

Nice idea but i cant see me using it again.

samething happen over here also. tried the using this method, 3rod, then to two (overheating) then i switch back to lawdawg's method, green lights...

QUOTE(killamayne @ Aug 20 2008, 11:40 AM)

samething happen over here also. tried the using this method, 3rod, then to two (overheating) then i switch back to lawdawg's method, green lights...

Different thing here, you got too thick credit card pieces thats why it overheated...
Retry with thinner credit card pieces when the ROD is back...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 20 2008, 07:16 AM)

Different thing here, you got too thick credit card pieces thats why it overheated...
Retry with thinner credit card pieces when the ROD is back...

thats wat i was thinking. i have a blockbuster card that i can cut up, looks wayy thinner, ill try that and post results. thnaks

I've been going at this 360 all night to no avail. It originally had 0022, before the X-Clamp replacement. After replacing the X Clamps, I got these codes, in order: 0100, 0103, 0102, and now I don't get anything except 0103. I have 2 washer on each side of the motherboard on the GPU, and 2 washers underneath the motherboard/1 washer on top of the motherboard for the CPU. I originally had 2 washers on top of the motherboard for the CPU, but it seemed like the heatsink wasn't touching the CPU enough. Maybe I should add another washer to the top of the motherboard and try that again? I have yet to try it without the credit card pieces on this 360, although I have had success on another 360 using lawdawg's method (without the credit card).

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks alot.

QUOTE(killamayne @ Aug 20 2008, 07:21 PM)

thats wat i was thinking. i have a blockbuster card that i can cut up, looks wayy thinner, ill try that and post results. thnaks

result- now its 0102 instead of gpu overheating. im doin the baking trick hoping i can game tonight then sell this POS soon.

Hello, first time in the forum, I did the fix in my 0102 error code 360 and i get a 0011 instead, the cpu heatsink is making a good contact, so I can't find the reason for that error.

Thanx and forgive my english.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 20 2008, 04:12 PM)

Ye the 002* can all be power problems, your transistor was most likely the one over the NAND.
If you draw power from it you also get 002* very often...
Ah the credit card fixed it then...
The 0021 is Southbridge related so concentrate on the Southbridge-> GPU area
And do it for 4 minutes otherwise it wont reflow properly, follow the instructions in my tutorial
And start with fewer tightness because 0020 comes up when you overtighten the screws...

I will try the heatgun tomorrow I have just got another xbox that has the 3 red lights and it shows up 0020 what would this mean as it would still have the old x clamps on there?

QUOTE(NS91 @ Aug 21 2008, 04:58 AM)

I've been going at this 360 all night to no avail. It originally had 0022, before the X-Clamp replacement. After replacing the X Clamps, I got these codes, in order: 0100, 0103, 0102, and now I don't get anything except 0103. I have 2 washer on each side of the motherboard on the GPU, and 2 washers underneath the motherboard/1 washer on top of the motherboard for the CPU. I originally had 2 washers on top of the motherboard for the CPU, but it seemed like the heatsink wasn't touching the CPU enough. Maybe I should add another washer to the top of the motherboard and try that again? I have yet to try it without the credit card pieces on this 360, although I have had success on another 360 using lawdawg's method (without the credit card).

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks alot.

Hmm how thick are your washers like?

QUOTE(killamayne @ Aug 21 2008, 05:11 AM)

result- now its 0102 instead of gpu overheating. im doin the baking trick hoping i can game tonight then sell this POS soon.

YOu have to adjust the tightness of the screws to make it get in contact

QUOTE(Marcosd @ Aug 21 2008, 07:17 AM)

Hello, first time in the forum, I did the fix in my 0102 error code 360 and i get a 0011 instead, the cpu heatsink is making a good contact, so I can't find the reason for that error.

Thanx and forgive my english.

Hmm how long does it take for the 2 red lights to show up?
Is it like instantly(5 seconds or so) or does it take a few minutes?

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 21 2008, 12:53 PM)

I will try the heatgun tomorrow I have just got another xbox that has the 3 red lights and it shows up 0020 what would this mean as it would still have the old x clamps on there?

Here ya go http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0020

Instantly, I start it and then the fans are shut down automatically after 5 sec at the most.

Thanx

QUOTE

Hmm how thick are your washers like?

Same ones as in your tutorial, 1mm. Anyway, I put all the washer back to normal (2 on each side) and no matter what tightness I have the screws at, I still get 0103. I've baked it 3 times and it still doesn't work. Any other suggestions? :\

I can't say this method has really worked for me, but it has provided glimmers of hope.

Did get 360 to boot for the first time in months, and after lots of tweaking of the screws holding the heatsinks (I cut holes in the bottom of the case so I don't have to keep pulling everything out) managed to play GTA for an hour.

That's as good as it gets, though. Most of the time it'll boot and then within 1-5 minutes it'll freeze with the checkerboard pattern or the vertical dotted white lines. When it RRODs it's always 0102.

It seems to me that the screws are the only thing having an impact; I really don't get the impression the credit card pieces are doing anything at all, but who knows. My method is to start it up and then gradually loosen screws until the fan starts to rev up, then tighten it back down a hair so the fan goes back to normal.

I've been tweaking the screws for a week now, and I have the feeling I'll never find the magic combination of tension between the 8 screws that lets the thing actually run reliably. Oh well

QUOTE(Marcosd @ Aug 22 2008, 02:52 AM)

Instantly, I start it and then the fans are shut down automatically after 5 sec at the most.

Thanx

Do you get the 2 red lights?

QUOTE(NS91 @ Aug 22 2008, 03:06 AM)

Same ones as in your tutorial, 1mm. Anyway, I put all the washer back to normal (2 on each side) and no matter what tightness I have the screws at, I still get 0103. I've baked it 3 times and it still doesn't work. Any other suggestions? :\

http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0103 is really a pain in the ass,,,
Make sure the USB ports arent shorting out because this can trigger it...
If it is not that give it a reflow with a heatgun like described in my tutorial, you can find the link in my signature...

QUOTE(jubilex @ Aug 22 2008, 05:45 AM)

I can't say this method has really worked for me, but it has provided glimmers of hope.

Did get 360 to boot for the first time in months, and after lots of tweaking of the screws holding the heatsinks (I cut holes in the bottom of the case so I don't have to keep pulling everything out) managed to play GTA for an hour.

That's as good as it gets, though. Most of the time it'll boot and then within 1-5 minutes it'll freeze with the checkerboard pattern or the vertical dotted white lines. When it RRODs it's always 0102.

It seems to me that the screws are the only thing having an impact; I really don't get the impression the credit card pieces are doing anything at all, but who knows. My method is to start it up and then gradually loosen screws until the fan starts to rev up, then tighten it back down a hair so the fan goes back to normal.

I've been tweaking the screws for a week now, and I have the feeling I'll never find the magic combination of tension between the 8 screws that lets the thing actually run reliably. Oh well

Hmm
Your solderballs are pretty fucked up then I guess.
Did you try reflowing the GPU with a heatgun yet?

I is starting to piss me off I re heated the motherboard for 4 minutes using a 2000w heatgun and it showed up 0020 again so I screw in the screws and know it shows 0021 screw in again 0020 now loosen 0020 and loosen again 0021 and loosen again 0021 this is with the credit card bits what do I do now? If I cant fix it soon i'm going to piss it off.

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 22 2008, 01:43 AM)

I is starting to piss me off I re heated the motherboard for 4 minutes using a 2000w heatgun and it showed up 0020 again so I screw in the screws and know it shows 0021 screw in again 0020 now loosen 0020 and loosen again 0021 and loosen again 0021 this is with the credit card bits what do I do now? If I cant fix it soon i'm going to piss it off.

i said F it man, i went back to the oringal xclamps and did the bake trick, green lights....no disrespect to wilhelm but it didnt for me....

your probably using thick credit cards? take the heatsinks off and check if there was any contact....

Yes, It has the two red lighs at the start and then shut down tha fans instantly!!!!

QUOTE

Hmm
Your solderballs are pretty fucked up then I guess.
Did you try reflowing the GPU with a heatgun yet?

Nah, I tried that on my first 360 and ended up damaging it, so I won't try that until I'm absolutely fed up with screw tweaking.

I did actually do a bit more tweaking last night and had it running for a couple hours, only playing demos, though, no disc-based games. No problems, so I'll try a real game tonight.

At any rate, thanks for all your help in this thread to everyone.

hey will, i'm thinking if the problem of my xbox isnt the overheat, because i'm playing for a week with the xbox open, only on the metalcase and it's all ok.

what do you think?

thanks man, you rocks!

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 22 2008, 02:50 PM)

hey will, i'm thinking if the problem of my xbox isnt the overheat, because i'm playing for a week with the xbox open, only on the metalcase and it's all ok.

what do you think?

thanks man, you rocks!

yea, i think i might do that too. i had my 360 up and running good, til i put everything back together and it went within a week. im just gonna leave it in the metal case, all bare looking and see what happens. idc at least it works and i can play. LOLZ

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 22 2008, 10:43 AM)

I is starting to piss me off I re heated the motherboard for 4 minutes using a 2000w heatgun and it showed up 0020 again so I screw in the screws and know it shows 0021 screw in again 0020 now loosen 0020 and loosen again 0021 and loosen again 0021 this is with the credit card bits what do I do now? If I cant fix it soon i'm going to piss it off.

Hmm
screw it down until it is 0020 and then look for capacitors around and under the GPU that might be missing/ have moved out of place.
It could also be a short under the RAM or the GPU so look at the chips from the side to make sure the solder balls are in a good condition and not flat.

QUOTE(killamayne @ Aug 22 2008, 01:32 PM)

i said F it man, i went back to the oringal xclamps and did the bake trick, green lights....no disrespect to wilhelm but it didnt for me....
your probably using thick credit cards? take the heatsinks off and check if there was any contact....

Ye if the board/GPU has flexed too much before and you can see it visually this doesnt work, just had one of these ones as well.
I gave it a reflow this flattened the board/GPU a bit and after that it worked...

QUOTE(Marcosd @ Aug 22 2008, 03:29 PM)

Yes, It has the two red lighs at the start and then shut down tha fans instantly!!!!

make sure thatthe credit card pieces arent too thick and that you are using the right washers....
Otherwise the chip dies are not making good contact with the heatsink,
Disassemble it and check for a fresh imprint of thermal compound if there isnt any try to find a creditcard that is thinner than the one you used before...

QUOTE(vamcavalo @ Aug 22 2008, 11:50 PM)

hey will, i'm thinking if the problem of my xbox isnt the overheat, because i'm playing for a week with the xbox open, only on the metalcase and it's all ok.

what do you think?

thanks man, you rocks!

If improved cooling made it go away it will either be a cold joint or overheating, how fast do your fans turn after a game and how loud are they?

QUOTE(killamayne @ Aug 23 2008, 02:31 AM)

yea, i think i might do that too. i had my 360 up and running good, til i put everything back together and it went within a week. im just gonna leave it in the metal case, all bare looking and see what happens. idc at least it works and i can play. LOLZ

with the x-clamps you will never be able to get more out of it than a few days/weeks

I just wanted to say that I used this method and it worked on the first try. As far as tightness of the bolts, I used bolts that could be tightned with a ratchet and I tightned them up to the point until you hear the clicking. It's the noise you here when you are going the opposite way. Also I used two 1mm metal washers because I couldn't find the nylon ones at Lowes. Anyways, thanks Wilhelm for the tutorial and your insight. Now let's see how long this lasts

QUOTE(wordene @ Aug 24 2008, 09:06 PM)

I just wanted to say that I used this method and it worked on the first try. As far as tightness of the bolts, I used bolts that could be tightned with a ratchet and I tightned them up to the point until you hear the clicking. It's the noise you here when you are going the opposite way. Also I used two 1mm metal washers because I couldn't find the nylon ones at Lowes. Anyways, thanks Wilhelm for the tutorial and your insight. Now let's see how long this lasts

Ye no problem am glad it worked for you

Damn you have been around a long time on here without posting a single thing!
This was your first post within 4 years

I think I have found the problem how hard would it be to fix this

IPB Image

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 25 2008, 02:45 PM)

I think I have found the problem how hard would it be to fix this

IPB Image

Depends on your soldering skills but this should be easy to do with a good tip and a magnifying glass.
If the pad isnt damaged just push it down slightly and when it is back in place reflow the solder on both sides and apply some new if necessary...
However if the pad is completely gone, what I dont think , you will have to restore the trace a bit but this is very unlikely anyway.

This one is definitely causing your 0020 because this cap powers the GPU/RAM area...

I'm going to do this tonight when I get home. I just need to make sure I have all the materials.

I also have a questions or two. After I follow the guide in the first post, I don't put the clamps back on, correct? They are gone.

In the second post from the top of this page, the guy refers to putting the clamps back on and baking it. Can someone elaborate as to what that is? In doing this, I'm assuming you take everything back apart, remove the previously added stuff, add the x-clamps back on so it is factory, then bake it?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 25 2008, 06:48 PM)

I'm going to do this tonight when I get home. I just need to make sure I have all the materials.

I also have a questions or two. After I follow the guide in the first post, I don't put the clamps back on, correct? They are gone.

In the second post from the top of this page, the guy refers to putting the clamps back on and baking it. Can someone elaborate as to what that is? In doing this, I'm assuming you take everything back apart, remove the previously added stuff, add the x-clamps back on so it is factory, then bake it?

Nope you dont put the clamps back on they will flex the board and cause it to break again like it did in the first place...
Actually puttin the x-clamps back on is the most retarded thing you can do so dont listen to this guy...

Baking it is also not the best way to fix it, rather invest some more time adjusting the tightness of the screws to find the perfect setting, baking it only temporarily reconnects the solder balls.
You will end up with the same problem again a few days/weeks later.
If you want to reflow the solder do it properly with a heatgun or a reflow station...

Well I did it. I could barely get those damn clamps off and indeed scratched my MB a couple of times, nothing too serious apparently because it works!! I had o bake it and it took about 3-4 minutes before I got the two lights, but it works now.

All I have to do is drill out some holes for the screw heads and put it back together.

Also, I've seen plenty of posts about this fix not working after X amount of time. Is there a fix for this? Take it back apart, adjust screws and bake if necessary?

Thanks Wilhelm!!

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 26 2008, 12:10 AM)

Depends on your soldering skills but this should be easy to do with a good tip and a magnifying glass.
If the pad isnt damaged just push it down slightly and when it is back in place reflow the solder on both sides and apply some new if necessary...
However if the pad is completely gone, what I dont think , you will have to restore the trace a bit but this is very unlikely anyway.

This one is definitely causing your 0020 because this cap powers the GPU/RAM area...

I try to do the left one but it did not work so I tried again then I broke the C3R4 thing what can I replace this with now?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 26 2008, 05:44 AM)

Well I did it. I could barely get those damn clamps off and indeed scratched my MB a couple of times, nothing too serious apparently because it works!! I had o bake it and it took about 3-4 minutes before I got the two lights, but it works now.

All I have to do is drill out some holes for the screw heads and put it back together.

Also, I've seen plenty of posts about this fix not working after X amount of time. Is there a fix for this? Take it back apart, adjust screws and bake if necessary?
Thanks Wilhelm!!

Ye adjusting the screws is more important cause if you have to bake it there is a high chance that it will die again...
Better give it a reflow this will really melt the solder...

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Aug 26 2008, 05:49 AM)

I try to do the left one but it did not work so I tried again then I broke the C3R4 thing what can I replace this with now?

I could ship it to you send me a PM mate..

ima try this with my xbox thats been sittin in my drawer for months now, but i had a crazy idea, why not make the chip flat like the guy was talkin about with hot glue, but use some kind of epoxy instead of something that melts

QUOTE(adrian089 @ Aug 27 2008, 02:18 AM)

ima try this with my xbox thats been sittin in my drawer for months now, but i had a crazy idea, why not make the chip flat like the guy was talkin about with hot glue, but use some kind of epoxy instead of something that melts

Epoxy will first not be flat and it is also not a solid material.
Additonally it is much less resistent to heat than the hard plastic unless you are using the expensive het reistent stuff...
Since the hard plastic wont melt at temps around 50°C this is not really anything you should worry about

IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!
I fixed a 360 today using electric tape and it overheated straight away.
Figured out that the 0.05mm the electric tape is thicker is fatal.
After replacing it with the usual transparent thin tape it worked perfectly.
I am going to update the tutorial to Version 1.2 now...
So in case you are getting overheating 2 red lights make sure you are using thin tape first or just use the thermal compound fastening method...

WIlhelm

Alright, it was working, but isn't now. I have cut out the square surrounding the 8 screws that I've replaced so I can see the MB. I'm having a hard time figuring out how tight is too tight or isn't tight enough. If I tighten them to a certain point I can see the board flexing. Obviously too tight, so how much should I loosen from there? Do I need to loosed all or just the ones over the CPU? All 4 at once or one at a time? I can tighten one screw that stops the 360 from booting up at all, just comes out for 1 sec. then gives me the RROD so obviously I wouldn't tighten that one that tight.

I wold appreciate any advice.

** EDIT** When I tightened the one screw that gives the red rings almost instantly, I got error 0002 (Network Interface Error). Before I was getting 0020 (Unknown).

Hi, I have a few questions.

I could only find M5X10 Hex cap screws. Will those work? The heads seem about as thick as machine screws I think. All I could find are some 1/4 nylon flat washers and No. 10 nylon flat washers. Is that ok? Like maybe I can stick something in the washers to file them down to a closer to M5 size? Also, I just leave the tape on the credit card parts? It doesn't melt or anything? Also, is .78 or .81 thickness too thick for the credit card pieces? My credit cards are about .81 at the thickest part of the card using calipers to measure.

Thanks.

credit kart ,nylon, glu .what else?
condoma of rubber cut may be good?

Also, I forgot to ask something about the washers. My metal washers are 1mm but I could only find nylon washers that are .8mm in size. Is the distance between the washers, gpu, and board that critical? Is it ok if my nylon washer is .2 smaller?

Thanks again.

I forgot one more thing and my post didn't give me hardly anytime to edit it seems.

So you don't recommend baking anymore? In one of your posts it says you don't bake but then your tutorial has the baking section. I have error code 0020. I mean I have to get the ball or short reconnected or whatever right? Or will removing the xclamp and screwing it down fix the ball? Should I bake at some point during the replacement?

Thanks.

QUOTE(Dp1983 @ Aug 29 2008, 11:17 AM)

Should I bake at some point during the replacement?

Thanks.

Yes yes yes! every 5 minutes, save the game.

Sorry, I didnt make it to edit it yesterday anymore, so I did it this morning, like the UPDATE is online for like 4 hours now...

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 29 2008, 04:29 AM)

Alright, it was working, but isn't now. I have cut out the square surrounding the 8 screws that I've replaced so I can see the MB. I'm having a hard time figuring out how tight is too tight or isn't tight enough. If I tighten them to a certain point I can see the board flexing. Obviously too tight, so how much should I loosen from there? Do I need to loosed all or just the ones over the CPU? All 4 at once or one at a time? I can tighten one screw that stops the 360 from booting up at all, just comes out for 1 sec. then gives me the RROD so obviously I wouldn't tighten that one that tight.

I wold appreciate any advice.

** EDIT** When I tightened the one screw that gives the red rings almost instantly, I got error 0002 (Network Interface Error). Before I was getting 0020 (Unknown).

http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0002 is a coldjoint under/power problem with the CPU...
If the tightening of the screws brings no results you will have to give it a reflow.
Heatgunning is pretty much the only permanent solution for 0002 anyway.
Check out my heatgunning tutorial, link can be found in my signature

QUOTE(Dp1983 @ Aug 29 2008, 08:07 AM)

Hi, I have a few questions.

I could only find M5X10 Hex cap screws. Will those work? The heads seem about as thick as machine screws I think. All I could find are some 1/4 nylon flat washers and No. 10 nylon flat washers. Is that ok? Like maybe I can stick something in the washers to file them down to a closer to M5 size? Also, I just leave the tape on the credit card parts? It doesn't melt or anything? Also, is .78 or .81 thickness too thick for the credit card pieces? My credit cards are about .81 at the thickest part of the card using calipers to measure.

Thanks.

The thickness of the card should be okay, just make sure you dont use electrical tape or it will be too thick in the end and the 360 will overheat.
Use like some of this thin tape I used.
I cant really tell about the washers because I dont know what you mean by 1/4/No 10, probably national measurements?Maybe someone local can help you, the washers should be like 1mm thick if you can get the screw through it it will be okay

QUOTE(Dp1983 @ Aug 29 2008, 10:43 AM)

Also, I forgot to ask something about the washers. My metal washers are 1mm but I could only find nylon washers that are .8mm in size. Is the distance between the washers, gpu, and board that critical? Is it ok if my nylon washer is .2 smaller?

Thanks again.

There we go

Well just use 2 metal washers then and no nylons at all

QUOTE(Dp1983 @ Aug 29 2008, 11:17 AM)

I forgot one more thing and my post didn't give me hardly anytime to edit it seems.

So you don't recommend baking anymore? In one of your posts it says you don't bake but then your tutorial has the baking section. I have error code 0020. I mean I have to get the ball or short reconnected or whatever right? Or will removing the xclamp and screwing it down fix the ball? Should I bake at some point during the replacement?

Thanks.

You can bake it but in nearly a 100% of the cases it will return because you only temporarily reconnect the solderballs...
Just try to find the perfect setting for the tightness of the screws.
If this does not work reflow the solder with a heatgun like show in my other tutorial, this will actually melt the solder ablls and reconnect them properly.
Prepare for that because 0020s often need that...

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Aug 29 2008, 10:20 AM)

credit kart ,nylon, glu .what else?
condoma of rubber cut may be good?

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Aug 29 2008, 11:39 AM)

Yes yes yes! every 5 minutes, save the game.

And to you bo(n)zo, please chill and stop giving people foolish advices that can damage their 360s.
If you think using condoms for 360s as a "preventive"

measure for the ROD then do it but dont exploit other people for that...

already no sleep 11.00

I give the man a notice in local newspapers, newspapers in your country that destroying the console.

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Aug 29 2008, 12:55 PM)

already no sleep 11.00

I give the man a notice in local newspapers, newspapers in your country that destroying the console.

You dont make any sense mate.
It is indeed 11 AM here if you wanna sleep allday oh well...
I am not a journalist or anything close to that so I dont get why you are telling me about German newspapers that are "destroying" consoles? Which German magazines do you mean?
I appreciate though that you made it to add my tutorial to one of your local newspaper, thanks for that...

I have one more question. If I boot it and have a red ring, can I adjust the screws with it on and hopefully get the ring to leave, or do I need to power it down, adjust screws and then turn it on?

Basically, do I need to turn it off for adjustments, or can I adjust the screws while on and have the ring go away?

Make sense?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 29 2008, 04:42 PM)

I have one more question. If I boot it and have a red ring, can I adjust the screws with it on and hopefully get the ring to leave, or do I need to power it down, adjust screws and then turn it on?

Basically, do I need to turn it off for adjustments, or can I adjust the screws while on and have the ring go away?

Make sense?

You have to power cycle the 360 in order to check if the ROD is gone, so yes you do have to turn it off while adjusting the screws...

QUOTE

Well just use 2 metal washers then and no nylons at all

So this won't short something out on the board?

QUOTE

Just try to find the perfect setting for the tightness of the screws.

So when you find this perfect tightness it somehow pushes the messed up balls back together? I don't understand how that works.

Thanks.

Wilhelm, in regard to your method of replacing the clamps, rather than cutting out the small squares from the card, couldn't you cut out 4 long strips for each die and use those? Much like using the eraser, but with the credit card?

QUOTE(Dp1983 @ Aug 29 2008, 08:01 PM)

So this won't short something out on the board?
So when you find this perfect tightness it somehow pushes the messed up balls back together? I don't understand how that works.

Thanks.

Nope it wont, the heatsink is always grounded anyway...
The perfect tightness is when the outer part of the heatsink is take under the same pressure than the die, before it will either take the die under more pressure or if you tighten it too much it will take the outer balls under too much pressure.
It is quite tricky, just do it very thoroughly, usually takes me a few tries to find it...

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 29 2008, 10:11 PM)

Wilhelm, in regard to your method of replacing the clamps, rather than cutting out the small squares from the card, couldn't you cut out 4 long strips for each die and use those? Much like using the eraser, but with the credit card?

Ye you can, that what I have been doing for my last couple of 360s.
When I do it the next time I will take pictures to update the tutorial, just wanted to test it a bit first...

Ok, couple more technical questions:

If it turns on and takes about 3-5 seconds before it gives the rings, would you say I need to tighten or loosen it?

If it turns on and the fan goes haywire, would you say tighten or loosen?

And is it normal for the fan to blow for about 5 seconds after I turn off the power?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 30 2008, 01:20 AM)

Ok, couple more technical questions:

If it turns on and takes about 3-5 seconds before it gives the rings, would you say I need to tighten or loosen it?

If it turns on and the fan goes haywire, would you say tighten or loosen?

This is a sign for overheating, are the heatsinks completely loose?
Which kind of tape did you use?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 30 2008, 02:08 AM)

And is it normal for the fan to blow for about 5 seconds after I turn off the power?

This only happens when you power circle the 360 like while it is booting, then the light in the middle is switched off but the 360 keeps running for a couple more seconds...

I'd say loose, not completely loose. I used clear tape, but I'm getting ready to try the strips of credit card and thermal paste. Basically start from scratch.

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 30 2008, 02:21 AM)

I'd say loose, not completely loose. I used clear tape, but I'm getting ready to try the strips of credit card and thermal paste. Basically start from scratch.

Hmm
How thick are your credit card pieces?
With clear tape it should work for sure.
Check out if there is an imprint of thermal compound on the heatsink

There is. I've reapplied the paste to make sure everything was all set. I guess I just can't get the pressure right. Is it a fine window or should it be pretty easy to get working?

Guess I'll have to try to heat gun it.

quote name='Wilhelm_I'
They have a problem http://www.xboxhacker.net/index.php?topic=3165.0
and you better at hot gan hot air?
kinder reperatur wo?
http://v3ndetta.wrzuta.pl/film/spYCiKP7Xv/code_red_-_kanikuly_2007 can help you

Screw this. I've done everything I can think of and even heat gunned it a little and still am getting the RROD. I'm at my wits end and about to throw this thing away.

Any suggestions?

Anyone know of anyone that could repair this in the Nashville area?

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 30 2008, 04:30 PM)

There is. I've reapplied the paste to make sure everything was all set. I guess I just can't get the pressure right. Is it a fine window or should it be pretty easy to get working?

Guess I'll have to try to heat gun it.

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Aug 30 2008, 05:17 PM)

quote name='Wilhelm_I'
They have a problem http://www.xboxhacker.net/index.php?topic=3165.0
and you better at hot gan hot air?
kinder reperatur wo?
http://v3ndetta.wrzuta.pl/film/spYCiKP7Xv/code_red_-_kanikuly_2007 can help you

Cant be assed to check it out now, xboxhacker.net does not even load up looks like the server is down or busy...
Will take care of it later on...

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Aug 30 2008, 07:38 PM)

Screw this. I've done everything I can think of and even heat gunned it a little and still am getting the RROD. I'm at my wits end and about to throw this thing away.

Any suggestions?

Anyone know of anyone that could repair this in the Nashville area?

Hmmm I could give it a try if you want to, drop me a PM if you are interested...

Hey Wil? I was just thinking about some stuff and how to do this without buying hardware and without cutting holes in the metal box. What if you A) take off the x clamps

clean off and reapply AS5 C) add strips of card D) put assembly back together leaving original h/s screws in and screwing back with original small black screws?

Wouldnt that still apply evenly distributed pressure because of the card strips and the h/s screws are manufactured the right length for the box? Its just that crap ass design for the x clamps?

QUOTE(demarko2281 @ Sep 1 2008, 02:30 PM)

Hey Wil? I was just thinking about some stuff and how to do this without buying hardware and without cutting holes in the metal box. What if you A) take off the x clamps

clean off and reapply AS5 C) add strips of card D) put assembly back together leaving original h/s screws in and screwing back with original small black screws?

Wouldnt that still apply evenly distributed pressure because of the card strips and the h/s screws are manufactured the right length for the box? Its just that crap ass design for the x clamps?

Is not a good idea, first the pressure will not be enough, and if there was enough pressure it would actually pull the whole area down and flex the heatsink badly because there are no washers in between mobo and heatsink(like when you use only 1 washer in between)

There was someone else who had this idea.
People told him his theory doesnt work like I am telling you now, then HackerSupreme(may he rest in peace) tested it and the 360 overheated immediately...

I have had my 360 since about 5 or 6 months after launch and had never had a problem. Day before yesterday I got some freezing screens and then the 3 RROD with error code 0102. I used this method with a debit card and the lock washers on the bottom. It took a few times of tightening the screws before I got the 360 to boot normally. After I put it back together and get a few hours of gaming under my belt I'll report back and see how long it lasts. Thanks for a great guide.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 8 2008, 12:38 PM)

Ye take pictures and concentrate on the CPU area especially...

If you need some help add my MSN...

Ok, here are some pictures of the CPU and more, remember me? I'm the one with error 0002

Thanks!

On the first view I dont see anything particular, I will check it out more thoroughly when I am back from college...

I'm trying to fix a friend's box but no luck so far. It was giving me 0102 so I did the x-clamp replacement, wouldnt boot right away so I baked it for about 20 minutes and now it boots up but locks up in game in about 10 to 15 minutes. I've been tinkering with the screws tightness for a while but no luck - locks up every time without throwing the red rings. Any suggestions?

QUOTE

You have to power cycle the 360 in order to check if the ROD is gone, so yes you do have to turn it off while adjusting the screws...

Not So, i drilled 8 holes in my 360 so i can adjust the screws
whenever it starts locking up (every 8 hour of gameplay) and
when my system locks up and gets the 3 rrod i just take out
the game flip it over and adjust the screws till the dashboard
boots. then i flip over, put in game and see if how long it'll play
without freezing.
let me get a pic of my cheese 360

if your having issues with adjusting screws i would put in holes in your 360 too
0r else its a headache to take it apart and put back together every time you have
to adjust screws

recently though its getting really really hard to get it up and running again for long periods of time.
it'll boot and freeze , but not get the 3rrod anymore?? so i have to loosen/tighten screws till it boots or
to let it overheat by loosening screws and then tighten again so it works for like 4-5 hours before freezing
up again...?

I'm prolly just gonna drop $200 here in a bit and mod another one cuz its starting to become a headache
getting this bitch to work properly for long periods of time.

QUOTE(Viral Doom @ Sep 2 2008, 03:06 AM)

Ok, here are some pictures of the CPU and more, remember me? I'm the one with error 0002

The parts on the CPU look like they have moved out of place slightly(the 2 upper ones on the right).
It might just be the picture itself but that what it looks like.
And the area under the ANA chip looks pretty burned by the look at that you might also have fried components but this is another story...
Check out if my guess with the parts on the CPU is right

QUOTE(fallte @ Sep 2 2008, 11:26 AM)

I'm trying to fix a friend's box but no luck so far. It was giving me 0102 so I did the x-clamp replacement, wouldnt boot right away so I baked it for about 20 minutes and now it boots up but locks up in game in about 10 to 15 minutes. I've been tinkering with the screws tightness for a while but no luck - locks up every time without throwing the red rings. Any suggestions?

Hmmm.
Best way to fix this is to heatgun the thing.
If you dont have any you might wanna loosen the screws almost completely and as soon as the GPU overheats you tighten the screws down.
I would recommend the heatgunning though this will be the only thing that can fix it permanently the baking will just be a bandaid...

QUOTE(cherrybox @ Sep 2 2008, 11:58 AM)

Not So, i drilled 8 holes in my 360 so i can adjust the screws
whenever it starts locking up (every 8 hour of gameplay) and
when my system locks up and gets the 3 rrod i just take out
the game flip it over and adjust the screws till the dashboard
boots. then i flip over, put in game and see if how long it'll play
without freezing.
let me get a pic of my cheese 360

QUOTE(cherrybox @ Sep 2 2008, 12:24 PM)

if your having issues with adjusting screws i would put in holes in your 360 too
0r else its a headache to take it apart and put back together every time you have
to adjust screws

recently though its getting really really hard to get it up and running again for long periods of time.
it'll boot and freeze , but not get the 3rrod anymore?? so i have to loosen/tighten screws till it boots or
to let it overheat by loosening screws and then tighten again so it works for like 4-5 hours before freezing
up again...?

I'm prolly just gonna drop $200 here in a bit and mod another one cuz its starting to become a headache
getting this bitch to work properly for long periods of time.

Same here, give the heatgun a chance...

QUOTE

Best way to fix this is to heatgun the thing.
If you dont have any you might wanna loosen the screws almost completely and as soon as the GPU overheats you tighten the screws down.
I would recommend the heatgunning though this will be the only thing that can fix it permanently the baking will just be a bandaid...

Problem is I dont really have any experience with heatgunning and I wouldn't want to burn his xbox. I'll try baking it again and then we will see. The frustrating thing is I managed to recover mine from 0020 which as far as I know is way more serious with 0 problems and this one is being a bitch.

QUOTE(fallte @ Sep 2 2008, 05:20 PM)

Problem is I dont really have any experience with heatgunning and I wouldn't want to burn his xbox. I'll try baking it again and then we will see. The frustrating thing is I managed to recover mine from 0020 which as far as I know is way more serious with 0 problems and this one is being a bitch.

http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0020 is often a pain in the ass only with X-Clamping, it can also be RAM related and then the X-Clamp Fix wont make a difference...
Thats why I heatgun the RAM and GPU in general for this error...

I know you do and I know it's the best option but I have zero experience with this. Anyway it seems to be working at the moment we'll see what happens in the next couple of days

Does anyone have an idea what the sticky stuff that covers half the motherboard is. Looks like somebody spilt coke or something else sugary on it

QUOTE(fallte @ Sep 2 2008, 07:38 PM)

I know you do and I know it's the best option but I have zero experience with this. Anyway it seems to be working at the moment we'll see what happens in the next couple of days

Does anyone have an idea what the sticky stuff that covers half the motherboard is. Looks like somebody spilt coke or something else sugary on it

Looks like someone tried to reflow it and used flux for that.
If it is indeed flux and not coke you can just keep it on there...

I saw in a tutorial on here about ading new thermal paste that the guy scraped off the old paste around the dies (on the green area) is that OK to do, or can I ruing anything?

I'd like to get all the old paste off before adding new paste and alcohol isn't cutting it.

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Sep 3 2008, 10:59 PM)

I saw in a tutorial on here about ading new thermal paste that the guy scraped off the old paste around the dies (on the green area) is that OK to do, or can I ruing anything?

I'd like to get all the old paste off before adding new paste and alcohol isn't cutting it.

no too sure what you mean, but i would use a toothpick or something similar to scrape off the thermal paste on the 'green area'. just be careful not to knock off any of the capacitors that are on there. (i think they are capacitors)

Cool, so the green area is ok to be touched/ reasonably abused as long as I don't ruin anything.

Now that I've done this fix once (standard method, no credit card chips) I'm interested in doing it again.

I think maybe if you over-tighten with the standard method you will have more short-lived results. You ONLY need enough pressure on the sinks to get them flush against the chips, and let the thermal grease do the rest. After my initial torquing I decided to unwind each of the screws about a quarter turn.

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Sep 4 2008, 01:04 AM)

Cool, so the green area is ok to be touched/ reasonably abused as long as I don't ruin anything.

Just dont use any things that might scratch it because then you are fucked...
Use a toothpick for example, I would rather suggest a credit card piece though(especially the round part), this is pretty handy.
Afterwards use q-tips+alcohol to get rid of the rest...

QUOTE(cherrybox @ Sep 2 2008, 03:24 AM)

if your having issues with adjusting screws i would put in holes in your 360 too
0r else its a headache to take it apart and put back together every time you have
to adjust screws

recently though its getting really really hard to get it up and running again for long periods of time.
it'll boot and freeze , but not get the 3rrod anymore?? so i have to loosen/tighten screws till it boots or
to let it overheat by loosening screws and then tighten again so it works for like 4-5 hours before freezing
up again...?

woah woah waoh...

slow down there. This is a bad idea -tightening screws with the box closed. I think it may explain your problem. You need to be able to see that the heatsinks are LEVEL. you can't do that without having the xbox wide open.

torquing on the screws for tightness is less of your concern than making sure there is even, level contact between the sink and the chip. It really sounds like you might have a sink that is mostly laying slanted across the chip, instead of flush, so you have an overheating GPU (since hot CPU usually causes 2 red lights of overheat not a freeze)

QUOTE(ReadySetAwesome @ Sep 4 2008, 10:00 AM)

woah woah waoh...

slow down there. This is a bad idea -tightening screws with the box closed. I think it may explain your problem. You need to be able to see that the heatsinks are LEVEL. you can't do that without having the xbox wide open.

torquing on the screws for tightness is less of your concern than making sure there is even, level contact between the sink and the chip. It really sounds like you might have a sink that is mostly laying slanted across the chip, instead of flush, so you have an overheating GPU (since hot CPU usually causes 2 red lights of overheat not a freeze)

Ye but this is not that important if you are using 2 washers, then the heatsink wont flex so much...
It is better to do it in the usual way though I must agree but his idea is quite handy for people who got badly bended mainboards which require adjusting all the time...

Wilhelm, I was looking over your tutorial again and realized that I haven't tried putting paste and a washer on the RAM chips, you think this might solve my 0020/0022 issues?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 4 2008, 07:09 AM)

Ye but this is not that important if you are using 2 washers, then the heatsink wont flex so much...
It is better to do it in the usual way though I must agree but his idea is quite handy for people who got badly bended mainboards which require adjusting all the time...

That is fair. I guess if you are to the point where the board is all warped then things are probably different, maybe the heatgun is more necessary too (i didn't need one).

I think my RROD was due to pretty minor amount of heat/flex. Still, its worth noting that initially over tightening the heat sinks could lead to the inverse of the original flexing problem.

QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Aug 1 2008, 04:15 PM)

Let me be the first to say, this technique works great! I had success with it and the xbox is holding up strong!

*knocks on wood*

bosnia_9,

How long have your xbox been running with this fix?

wilhelm,

Is it ok to use bigger washers? The thickness is 1m and the diameter in the center is 5m but the overall washer size is bigger than the screw head.

QUOTE(Minker17 @ Sep 4 2008, 08:13 PM)

Wilhelm, I was looking over your tutorial again and realized that I haven't tried putting paste and a washer on the RAM chips, you think this might solve my 0020/0022 issues?

Might fix the 0020 because it can be RAM related.
Would suggest that you heatgun it rather though because the 002s are pretty difficult to fix without heatgunning...

QUOTE(ReadySetAwesome @ Sep 4 2008, 08:45 PM)

That is fair. I guess if you are to the point where the board is all warped then things are probably different, maybe the heatgun is more necessary too (i didn't need one).

I think my RROD was due to pretty minor amount of heat/flex. Still, its worth noting that initially over tightening the heat sinks could lead to the inverse of the original flexing problem.

ye
I have got an extremely flexed one in the work, like the whole mobo itself got a 5mm difference from center to edge.
And I guess you can imagine how flexed the area under CPU/GPU is

I will start a dewarping try if the customer is willed to pay more, heatgunned this piece of crap for like 4 times already....

QUOTE(xlinkx @ Sep 4 2008, 10:28 PM)

bosnia_9,

How long have your xbox been running with this fix?
wilhelm,

Is it ok to use bigger washers? The thickness is 1m and the diameter in the center is 5m but the overall washer size is bigger than the screw head.

The washers should be okay as long as they are not covering a capacitor or so, then this would change the height, if it is installed flatly it is not a problem..--

hey thanks so much for this tut! I fixed my xbox that had the 3rrod a while ago, and so i thought id try my luck with some of the xboxes on ebay. well i got screwed and received 2 RROd xboxes that already had fixes attempted on them! Well, I tried redoing those and it didn't help

then a couple days ago i checked the forums and saw this tut. first i tried it on the gpu, and the only thing that did was change my secondary code from 0020 to 0102, but then i did the same thing for the cpu and now the box appears to be working! and hopefully, as you suggest, for even longer!

again, thanks so much for this tut! i was about to use the heat gun but now i dont have to!

Quick question for you Wil

i have 2 360 consoles which ive done your fix to and they both keep on freezing in game. one would work for about 5 mins and then just freeze and on restart would show 0102

should i heatgun it?
and if i heatgun it how long do you expect it to last?

thanks

QUOTE(jeffrey92 @ Sep 5 2008, 01:38 AM)

hey thanks so much for this tut! I fixed my xbox that had the 3rrod a while ago, and so i thought id try my luck with some of the xboxes on ebay. well i got screwed and received 2 RROd xboxes that already had fixes attempted on them! Well, I tried redoing those and it didn't help

then a couple days ago i checked the forums and saw this tut. first i tried it on the gpu, and the only thing that did was change my secondary code from 0020 to 0102, but then i did the same thing for the cpu and now the box appears to be working! and hopefully, as you suggest, for even longer!

again, thanks so much for this tut! i was about to use the heat gun but now i dont have to!

Nice am glad it worked for you 0020 is really a pain in the ass to fix if it returns you will have to heatgun it

QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Sep 5 2008, 11:40 AM)

Quick question for you Wil

i have 2 360 consoles which ive done your fix to and they both keep on freezing in game. one would work for about 5 mins and then just freeze and on restart would show 0102

should i heatgun it?
and if i heatgun it how long do you expect it to last?

thanks

It really depends on the mainboard is it extremely flexed?
If so it will be pretty difficult to fix it, I have got one of these myself right now and if the customer allows it I will attempt to remove the flexing.
If it works out I will let you know.
I have recovered extremely bad 360s with it most had the other X-Clamp replacements already done.
Actually my success rate isnt 100% anymore I got the first 360 I fixed witht his fix back yesterday it worked for about 7 months and started freezing after 30 minutes or so, no ROD yet though...
This one was also flexed pretty bad but not as much as the one I have got now...
If you heatgun it and x-clamp it it should last for like 6 months+, the less flexed the longer...

I am having the same issues as Farntheplaya. Of course I did the heat gun method and the imp. xclamp method and it lasted for about 5 days and went back to 0102. The mobo really doesn't look like it is "extremely" flexed. To me it really doesn't look flexed at all. I might have to take a pic or two and get a second opinion.
It is possible though that I didn't do the heat gun method quite long enough. I was a bit iffy and stopped early when I saw smoke which just ended up being the tape I used.

Is there any other reason why I can't get this 0102 to last for more than a couple days?

QUOTE(strife18 @ Sep 5 2008, 06:00 PM)

I am having the same issues as Farntheplaya. Of course I did the heat gun method and the imp. xclamp method and it lasted for about 5 days and went back to 0102. The mobo really doesn't look like it is "extremely" flexed. To me it really doesn't look flexed at all. I might have to take a pic or two and get a second opinion.
It is possible though that I didn't do the heat gun method quite long enough. I was a bit iffy and stopped early when I saw smoke which just ended up being the tape I used.

Is there any other reason why I can't get this 0102 to last for more than a couple days?

No eliminate why!!!
poor drainage temperature-money/desire/knowledge
presure
the problem returns
how many times you can heat?

QUOTE(strife18 @ Sep 5 2008, 06:00 PM)

I am having the same issues as Farntheplaya. Of course I did the heat gun method and the imp. xclamp method and it lasted for about 5 days and went back to 0102. The mobo really doesn't look like it is "extremely" flexed. To me it really doesn't look flexed at all. I might have to take a pic or two and get a second opinion.
It is possible though that I didn't do the heat gun method quite long enough. I was a bit iffy and stopped early when I saw smoke which just ended up being the tape I used.

Is there any other reason why I can't get this 0102 to last for more than a couple days?

Hmmm, since there was smoke I guess you paniced?
At least that what I did when I saw that the first time...
my heatgunning thing didnt work too well for this one either I had to redo it because I put stuff over it and made the solder balls crack when they were still almost liquid like and not hard...

Please explain what you have done exactly.
Which area did you focus on did you do bottom and top, how long were your breaks, did you touch the mainboard after heatgunning?
How long did you heatgun at which temperatures?

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Sep 5 2008, 09:04 PM)

No eliminate why!!!
poor drainage temperature-money/desire/knowledge
presure
the problem returns
how many times you can heat?

yo wilhelm sup I have error 0102 I know it can be fixed by pressure but I was wondering if you suggest me to heat gun it anyway to increase its lifespan or to wait until I get the RROD again to heat gun it thanks in advance.

I also have tried following your tut. I have an xbox that already has the x clamps on it when I got it. it worked for a day and then it got RROD. The error code at that time was 0110 which was related to memory. So I tightened the screws as tight as possible. After that it worked for a day and gave me RROD and the error code was 0102. So I tried adjusting the screws and that was to no avail. So then I tried to Heatgun the GPU CPU and Memory. While I was heatgunning I accidentally blew one cap near the CPU. I don't know if it affects anything but The xbox powers on and still gives me 0102. I had also tried the card pieces and it would go green and then 5 seconds later it would overheat. There was also no thermal impression on the GPU heatsink but on the CPU Heatsink there was. Also I think my metal washers are too think. I replaced the setup on the GPU to have Screw + Motherboard + Nylon + Washer+ Heatsink.
Any Help would be nice!

Tried this fix, and it worked for about a month. This was an Xbox that was already brought back to life once by replacing the X-clamps. The X-clamps replacement lasted a little over a year, and then I got the RROD again. I tried this fix, and I started getting slowdown and random freezes about a month in. Messed around with it, and I was able to bring it back for another day. Now it gives me the RROD.

I think I'm just going to buy a new Aracde.

Well, Wilhelm I wrapped my board up with pieces of leather over the plastic components, then covered all those areas with aluminum foil and secured it down with tape. I had the board on its side so I could heat both the top and bottom. I started at the lower temp setting and heated up the whole board for a min or two. I switched to high heat and did circles around the exposed areas and would switch to the bottom and back to the top. Did that for a min or two and saw smoke every once in a while and I would immediately move from that area. I figured it was the tape but stopped after a couple minutes because I could not actually see the plastic components and wasn't sure if the hot air was getting underneath the protection and melting the plastic.
I laid the board down and left it for an hour to cool.
Then put it back together and it worked for about 6 days.

QUOTE(Reaper67 @ Sep 6 2008, 09:21 PM)

yo wilhelm sup I have error 0102 I know it can be fixed by pressure but I was wondering if you suggest me to heat gun it anyway to increase its lifespan or to wait until I get the RROD again to heat gun it thanks in advance.

Heatgunning gives you some extra time since the solder balls will be more stable, so yes do that if you can...

QUOTE(pthomas @ Sep 6 2008, 09:28 PM)

I also have tried following your tut. I have an xbox that already has the x clamps on it when I got it. it worked for a day and then it got RROD. The error code at that time was 0110 which was related to memory. So I tightened the screws as tight as possible. After that it worked for a day and gave me RROD and the error code was 0102. So I tried adjusting the screws and that was to no avail. So then I tried to Heatgun the GPU CPU and Memory. While I was heatgunning I accidentally blew one cap near the CPU. I don't know if it affects anything but The xbox powers on and still gives me 0102. I had also tried the card pieces and it would go green and then 5 seconds later it would overheat. There was also no thermal impression on the GPU heatsink but on the CPU Heatsink there was. Also I think my metal washers are too think. I replaced the setup on the GPU to have Screw + Motherboard + Nylon + Washer+ Heatsink.
Any Help would be nice!

Hmmm
Looks like the heatsink isnt getting good contact then.
It will either be the washers or the credit card pieces.
The washers should be exactly 1mm each...
Make sure that you use this extremely thin tape to fasten them electric tape is too thick...
If the GPU is flexed extremely that can cause the credit card pieces to be too high as well, you can prevent this by sanding the thickness of the credit card down a bit this helps sometimes.
The problem is that it flexes the mobo back into position after time not immediately

Which cap blew by the way?
Can you name the part number?
It is quite impressive that it works afterwards...

QUOTE(PincheAnimal @ Sep 6 2008, 09:50 PM)

Tried this fix, and it worked for about a month. This was an Xbox that was already brought back to life once by replacing the X-clamps. The X-clamps replacement lasted a little over a year, and then I got the RROD again. I tried this fix, and I started getting slowdown and random freezes about a month in. Messed around with it, and I was able to bring it back for another day. Now it gives me the RROD.

I think I'm just going to buy a new Aracde.

Hmm did you try heatgunning it yet?
If the X-Clamps were replaced previously already you are sometimes unlucky.
However if it is not too flexed it usually recovers even these...

QUOTE(strife18 @ Sep 6 2008, 10:42 PM)

Well, Wilhelm I wrapped my board up with pieces of leather over the plastic components, then covered all those areas with aluminum foil and secured it down with tape. I had the board on its side so I could heat both the top and bottom. I started at the lower temp setting and heated up the whole board for a min or two. I switched to high heat and did circles around the exposed areas and would switch to the bottom and back to the top. Did that for a min or two and saw smoke every once in a while and I would immediately move from that area. I figured it was the tape but stopped after a couple minutes because I could not actually see the plastic components and wasn't sure if the hot air was getting underneath the protection and melting the plastic.
I laid the board down and left it for an hour to cool.
Then put it back together and it worked for about 6 days.

Didnt make it in time to edit my post so...
Nice to hear that mate.
I recently didnt have anymore smoking issues
I am using some real cheap ass electric tape now and it just wnt start burning, dont really know why, seems to be pretty heat resistent, the glue even still works afterwards
Costed only like 2 for 6 roles and thats really damn cheap...

Hehe, I guess I didn't add at the end that it worked for 6 days...then went back to rrod.
That is where I am at now. I did that heat gun trick as described with electrical tape as well, which was what I think was smoking.
After I put it together it seemed to work quite well and used it for those 6 days and then started freezing and eventually went to the rrod. I hadnt moved the 360 at all through that whole thing so it's kinda odd why it just stops working. I don't think there is any flexing or warping of the mobo either. I guess I could try again taking pictures to give you an idea and then you could tell me what I am doing wrong or if you have any other suggestions that would be good too.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 6 2008, 10:37 PM)

Hmmm
Looks like the heatsink isnt getting good contact then.
It will either be the washers or the credit card pieces.
The washers should be exactly 1mm each...
Make sure that you use this extremely thin tape to fasten them electric tape is too thick...
If the GPU is flexed extremely that can cause the credit card pieces to be too high as well, you can prevent this by sanding the thickness of the credit card down a bit this helps sometimes.
The problem is that it flexes the mobo back into position after time not immediately

Which cap blew by the way?
Can you name the part number?
It is quite impressive that it works afterwards...

Well you see I took all the card pieces off after I saw the GPU wasnt getting good contact. I had also put 1 washer each on the memory chips so the heatsink would be level. Well that didnt let the heatsink touch the GPU dies so I took the washers on the memory chips out with the card pieces also. I also noticed that even though I took the washers off the memory chips the heatsink still does not touch the memory chips, Is it supposed to? Maybe it is because of the washers I have holding the heatsink and the motherboard. I am going to get brand new X Clamp parts from the store soon. What type of setup do you recommend me going with? I am going to buy 8 M5 X 10 FlatHead screws and 8 1mm metal and 8 1mm nylon.
The tape I used was transparent and was pretty thin. Maybe it was the card pieces. Oh well.

The cap that blew was Rubycon 6.3V 820 uf MFZ T0708. I saw some of these online for like 60 cents each.
This is one of the caps at the end, near the CPU.
Thank you VERY much for replying!!

lol ive knocked out some leeds on the bottom of the xbox360 the ones right under the cpu it was about 7 joints and the xbox still works.

and on another xbox i accedently knocked off a small joint and that worked as well.

QUOTE(strife18 @ Sep 7 2008, 02:43 AM)

Hehe, I guess I didn't add at the end that it worked for 6 days...then went back to rrod.
That is where I am at now. I did that heat gun trick as described with electrical tape as well, which was what I think was smoking.
After I put it together it seemed to work quite well and used it for those 6 days and then started freezing and eventually went to the rrod. I hadnt moved the 360 at all through that whole thing so it's kinda odd why it just stops working. I don't think there is any flexing or warping of the mobo either. I guess I could try again taking pictures to give you an idea and then you could tell me what I am doing wrong or if you have any other suggestions that would be good too.

Hmmm
thats weird.
Try to run it without case and if you put it back in the case dont tighten the screw that hold the mainboard too much...

QUOTE(pthomas @ Sep 7 2008, 05:55 AM)

Well you see I took all the card pieces off after I saw the GPU wasnt getting good contact. I had also put 1 washer each on the memory chips so the heatsink would be level. Well that didnt let the heatsink touch the GPU dies so I took the washers on the memory chips out with the card pieces also. I also noticed that even though I took the washers off the memory chips the heatsink still does not touch the memory chips, Is it supposed to? Maybe it is because of the washers I have holding the heatsink and the motherboard. I am going to get brand new X Clamp parts from the store soon. What type of setup do you recommend me going with? I am going to buy 8 M5 X 10 FlatHead screws and 8 1mm metal and 8 1mm nylon.
The tape I used was transparent and was pretty thin. Maybe it was the card pieces. Oh well.

The cap that blew was Rubycon 6.3V 820 uf MFZ T0708. I saw some of these online for like 60 cents each.
This is one of the caps at the end, near the CPU.
Thank you VERY much for replying!!

Ye thanks for the information on the cap

How thick were the washers you are using on the screws and how many did you use.
If the chip die didnt have contact and neither the memory ship it will be that for sure...

QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Sep 7 2008, 12:08 PM)

lol ive knocked out some leeds on the bottom of the xbox360 the ones right under the cpu it was about 7 joints and the xbox still works.

and on another xbox i accedently knocked off a small joint and that worked as well.

Hmmm
Probably stuff that isnt in use at the moment or so

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 7 2008, 11:10 PM)

Ye thanks for the information on the cap

How thick were the washers you are using on the screws and how many did you use.
If the chip die didnt have contact and neither the memory ship it will be that for sure...

Well the metal washers I had before were 2mm and the nylon was 1mm. Right now (On the GPU only) they are: one nylon which is 1mm and 1 metal which is 1mm. So the setup for the GPU is Screw + Mobo + Nylon + Metal. Even after I put that on, the memory chips under the GPU heatsink still do not have any thermal impression on it. The GPU dies however do. The setup I have right now does not include any card pieces. For the CPU the setup is different because I have the 2mm washers. Also I think my screws are not the right ones. I am going to buy some more nylon, metal and new screws for the CPU and see if they work.
Also when I had the card pieces on there with the old washers for the GPU it most of the time would give me green lights and then like 5 seconds later it would overheat and I also had 1 1mm metal washer on each memory chip under the GPU heatsink. It was either the washer on the memory chips or the card pieces that was causing the 360 to overheat. Anyways I removed both so now it gives me 0102.
Thanks for replying!

Well I bought some new washers and screws. The heads on the screws look a little bit thick though. I am going to put in 2 1mm metal washers instead on 1 nylon and 1 metal. Because the nylon washers I have look a little bit thick. I will try it later on and post the results.

Hmm looks like youve got a deformed GPU...
I had a 360 just like 2 days ago that had an extremely flexed GPU.
Only use 1 nylon washer and if you can add some of the thin washers that com with the x-clamps to it...
If this works take it off again and install the creditcard pieces, if necessary sand them down a bit...

I have installed the two capacitors and I think I have installed them in wright I think but it still brings up error 0020 so I don't know if I have other capacitors missing or what. Is there any point adjusting the screws every time I test the 360?

another question

i cant really find any spare credit cards so ive been trying to find other things around the same thickness

right now im using the plastic from the talismoon whisper MAX packaging and it seems to be working but im worried it might melt, should i be worried?

i really didnt want to use erasers as it depends on how thick i cut them and that just makes things harder trying to get the right thickness

another thing, is the point of the plastic pieces so that they touch the heatsink so do you think its a good idea to put some thermal paste on the plastic pieces so i can tell if they are actually making contact?

QUOTE(foaley77 @ Sep 8 2008, 10:36 AM)

I have installed the two capacitors and I think I have installed them in wright I think but it still brings up error 0020 so I don't know if I have other capacitors missing or what. Is there any point adjusting the screws every time I test the 360?

Hmm, make sure that they are not cold, check with a magnifying glass...

Otherwise it will be the GPU or the RAM...
Start with loose screws, then tighten by 1/8 turn -> test, tighten a bit more -> test again , .....
These http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0020s are a pain in the ass...

QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Sep 8 2008, 11:25 AM)

another question

i cant really find any spare credit cards so ive been trying to find other things around the same thickness

right now im using the plastic from the talismoon whisper MAX packaging and it seems to be working but im worried it might melt, should i be worried?

i really didnt want to use erasers as it depends on how thick i cut them and that just makes things harder trying to get the right thickness

another thing, is the point of the plastic pieces so that they touch the heatsink so do you think its a good idea to put some thermal paste on the plastic pieces so i can tell if they are actually making contact?

I am not sure if the plastic foil can take that and I doubt it...
It is also not solid enough and will shrink and probably melt.

If you are just speaking about plastic chunks that will be okay as long as they have a similar consistence and a thickness of around 0.75mm.
To put thermal compound on it is a good idea for troubleshooting, so try that...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 9 2008, 12:33 AM)

Hmm, make sure that they are not cold, check with a magnifying glass...

Otherwise it will be the GPU or the RAM...
Start with loose screws, then tighten by 1/8 turn -> test, tighten a bit more -> test again , .....
These http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0020s are a pain in the ass...

I will check I might even take a photo of them, I will give it a few more goes but if no luck I might just piss it off dont want to spend to many hours on it.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Sep 8 2008, 07:43 AM)

Hmm looks like youve got a deformed GPU...
I had a 360 just like 2 days ago that had an extremely flexed GPU.
Only use 1 nylon washer and if you can add some of the thin washers that com with the x-clamps to it...
If this works take it off again and install the creditcard pieces, if necessary sand them down a bit...

Ok I Installed the fix with the new screws and washers. I used screw + Mobo + 1 Nylon + 1 metal. I still am getting 0102. I do not have the thin washers that came with the X Clamp, but I will try it with 1 nylon washer.
Thanks!

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 3 2008, 10:28 PM)

Hello Wilhem & everyone, it's my first post here after lurking for a few days.

I've read through the entire thread and your elaborately detailed tutorials to understand your method for fixing the 3RRoD, so I gave it a go on a broken XBOX360 that I bought from a friend. It is showing me an error of 0102, so I tried the x-clamp replacement with the credit card bits but that attempt was unsuccessful. I even tried with several combinations of metal and nylon washers above and under the mainboard but to no avail. I've been doing all the testing outside of the shell to make sure the board is not flexing etc.

However, during one of my attempts, I removed the GPU heatsink and powered it up and to my amazement the green ring of light showed up for ~1.5 seconds and then the overheating 2 red lights popped up. Is this a good sign that I may be able to fix the box by reflowing?

I'm no stranger to tinkering with hardware but right now I have some questions on issues which are still bothering me. I bought a heat gun yesterday to reflow the x360 but before that I decided to try it on an old 6800GT card which was giving me graphical glitches (and heats like crazy too!!) since it uses BGA ram chips. After the heat gun treatment the 6800GT worked like a charm!

As for my questions, here they are:

1) When you mentioned the reflow of the mainboard on the top and bottom, did you mean to do it in a single process or reflow one side, let it cool, then reflow the other side and let it cool again?

2) Since I'm getting error 0102, is it better that I reflow the CPU, GPU, top ram, bottom ram, southbridge and ANA chip in one go or can I just reflow the GPU or both the GPU and CPU? Which one do you recommend?

3) When using the aluminium foil to protect the insulator, how do you wrap the aluminium so that no holes show up? I couldn't do it properly when reflowing my 6800GT and the insulating plastic inside completely shrunk and disappeared into thin braids

but thankfully no components were damaged in the process. Do you have to use tape again to fix the aluminium or do you just wrap it till it feels solid?

4) In your heat gun reflow tutorial, you say that the solder turns yellowish. Do you mean the solder which is visible on the other electronic components in the reflow area?
Thanks for your time and help

Hot gun Fixing the 3RRoD.way home/Remember what you are doing doing at your own risk.
what's next?
problem return

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 4 2008, 11:55 AM)

Hello,
Yes I know it's at my own risk but without risk i won't find out if it works or not ;-)
Hmm I'm not sure what you mean by that, well yes the problem can return if I do the heat gun fix only but I'm not thinking of limiting the fix to just that, I will also be using the x-clamp replacement and also find a way to better cool the system.

Delete oryginal x/clamp
no credit card nylon

temperatur plastic time.no silikon Ph.
HYBRYD yes Ok.
http://forums.xbox-s...o...3191&st=135
you do not have my heatsink
other
1- http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=661197
2- http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=661228
30%?

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 3 2008, 10:28 PM)

Hello Wilhem & everyone, it's my first post here after lurking for a few days.

I've read through the entire thread and your elaborately detailed tutorials to understand your method for fixing the 3RRoD, so I gave it a go on a broken XBOX360 that I bought from a friend. It is showing me an error of 0102, so I tried the x-clamp replacement with the credit card bits but that attempt was unsuccessful. I even tried with several combinations of metal and nylon washers above and under the mainboard but to no avail. I've been doing all the testing outside of the shell to make sure the board is not flexing etc.

However, during one of my attempts, I removed the GPU heatsink and powered it up and to my amazement the green ring of light showed up for ~1.5 seconds and then the overheating 2 red lights popped up. Is this a good sign that I may be able to fix the box by reflowing?

I'm no stranger to tinkering with hardware but right now I have some questions on issues which are still bothering me. I bought a heat gun yesterday to reflow the x360 but before that I decided to try it on an old 6800GT card which was giving me graphical glitches (and heats like crazy too!!) since it uses BGA ram chips. After the heat gun treatment the 6800GT worked like a charm!

As for my questions, here they are:

1) When you mentioned the reflow of the mainboard on the top and bottom, did you mean to do it in a single process or reflow one side, let it cool, then reflow the other side and let it cool again?

2) Since I'm getting error 0102, is it better that I reflow the CPU, GPU, top ram, bottom ram, southbridge and ANA chip in one go or can I just reflow the GPU or both the GPU and CPU? Which one do you recommend?

3) When using the aluminium foil to protect the insulator, how do you wrap the aluminium so that no holes show up? I couldn't do it properly when reflowing my 6800GT and the insulating plastic inside completely shrunk and disappeared into thin braids

but thankfully no components were damaged in the process. Do you have to use tape again to fix the aluminium or do you just wrap it till it feels solid?

4) In your heat gun reflow tutorial, you say that the solder turns yellowish. Do you mean the solder which is visible on the other electronic components in the reflow area?
Thanks for your time and help

This is a good sign just do the x-clamp fix but leave the screws as loose as possible...

1) You do one side and let it cool down , then do the other, do in no way move the mainboard in the whole heatgunning process or you might fuck solder balls up badly...

2)For 0102 reflowing ANA and Southbridge isnt necessary just focus on CPU, GPU and RAM, mainly GPU though.

3) You just try to wrap it until it fits blow at it like to make sure that it doesnt get loose. What I always do is use needles to fasten the foil then it has more hold and is easier to be kept in place...
the aluminum acts like a shield if plastic like tape isnt covered it will start smoking...

4) Forget about that solder can turn yellowish but it is not a definite sign, just keep the timings of 1minute preheating and 4 minutes on high this is just perfect.
There is no real way to determine if solder has melted or not and if you see signs you wont be happy about it like when compoenents move out of place(never happened to me though really, just make sure you dont move the mainboard in the process)

Hey!

I used your method yesterday and it went green after some baking. It's all fine now although the thing that worries me a bit is the fan noise. Before 3RROD it was quiet and after applying the x-clamp fix the fan is acting like a jumbo jet [as in very VERY loud]. I was thinking about replacing the fans with some less noisy ones. I know it will help but what if they act up like the current, standard fans? I'm fairly sure I did every step of the process to the letter.

Thanks in advance.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 4 2008, 03:45 PM)

This is a good sign just do the x-clamp fix but leave the screws as loose as possible...

1) You do one side and let it cool down , then do the other, do in no way move the mainboard in the whole heatgunning process or you might fuck solder balls up badly...

2)For 0102 reflowing ANA and Southbridge isnt necessary just focus on CPU, GPU and RAM, mainly GPU though.

3) You just try to wrap it until it fits blow at it like to make sure that it doesnt get loose. What I always do is use needles to fasten the foil then it has more hold and is easier to be kept in place...
the aluminum acts like a shield if plastic like tape isnt covered it will start smoking...

4) Forget about that solder can turn yellowish but it is not a definite sign, just keep the timings of 1minute preheating and 4 minutes on high this is just perfect.
There is no real way to determine if solder has melted or not and if you see signs you wont be happy about it like when compoenents move out of place(never happened to me though really, just make sure you dont move the mainboard in the process)

I just heat gunned the board and now I don't have 0102 anymore, I get an instant 0020. I know that 0020 can be hard to fix and the option i'm left with is to heat gun the board once again. For that, do I have to concentrate on the GPU and RAM right? I didn't heat gun the bottom of the board yet, would you recommend me to do that first before heatgunning the GPU and RAM again?

Also, I wanted to know if 0102 overrides 0020, so that it means that I have fixed my 0102 and now the error to fix is the 0020?

Thanks for your kind help

Got RROD again but I had to bake it (took like 15 hours).
Fixed the screws and got it to work without having to rebake.

Worked fine but just now the 360 turns on and gets green lights but the video is corrupted and freezes and stays stuck. wtf?

Hello.....
This is my first post...In any case, my Xbox 360 showed the 3RLOD few days ago after 10 months of peace approximately

.....it was a 0102 error.....i tried Wilhelm's method with slight unwanted modifications and it worked but now theres another problem.....my xbox 360 overheats and projects 2 red lights just after the blinking of the four green quadrants...I din get time to connect the fans..it was without the fans........Anyway what m I supposed to do now Wilhelm/Bosnia/M2X????

BTW i used rubber washers instead of the nylon ones cuz u wont get them here......also no spring washers so I used pieces of plastic card as washers making a hole in the centre

What do u say about that? Another thing is I couldnt scrape off the MS' thermal compound completely.....

Another question> there's some red light error fix guide by Chris jones and X-clamp replacement by the FIXYOUROWNXBOX guy.......do u guys know anything about them and r their repairs good enough?
U may also want to check this http://www.llamma.co...x-clamp_fix.htm out as xbox_expert advocates it lol.......

Before i end i must say Wilhelm's tutorial is outstanding....Thank u very much for that....

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Oct 3 2008, 11:00 PM)

Remember what you are doing doing at your own risk.

no wilhelm turial .
It precyzjon job.
Your problem it people here forum confident M$ and reperatur bad etc. ebay not wishing to new proposals,for fear garanti.
If Poland someone is 3ROD for me, idiot and( frajer loser)if you do not do so http://www.mojagener...55820#slideshow
Can not read my turial.
I often console from Denmark, where it is not missing....
prophylactically ROD.then your problem or bad and OK.

how to insert claws to the console, one with the second in August to think how many will work without a guarantee.

QUOTE(dzydzy @ Oct 6 2008, 01:31 AM)

I'm having a weird problem:

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=662916

have been the thinking that does not have a problem

M$ intentional? or group constructor idiot

This is the number 1 issue because I have 3 pieces to repair 65nm 3ROD
2szt 0102 and 1szt 0020 from ...fra.....

What's this?

Fra...er idea deceive people jebay
gumi ram?

QUOTE(professor_xbox_RETURNS @ Oct 4 2008, 08:07 PM)

Dear Wilheim,

Firstly, may I thank you for your brave stand on my comments AFTER you got me banned.
I had always thought that the xbox scene forums were a place to discuss ideas and not just to agree with every word you say - I guess I was wrong.
Actually I do fix xbox 360's just not on Ebay. Got too snowed under with that and the kits so now I fix them in the local area only and have fixed around 400 so I know what I'm doing. A lot of ebayers actually wait up to the 60 day limit before posting good feedback and all the consoles I've fixed are still going strong after 6 months to a year.

Just because I'm not loving your (unproven) idea doesn't make me the bad guy. Last time I checked I lived in a Democracy.
My way of fixing works for 3000 people and is a permanent fix. Using a credit card on top is, as yet, unproven. It might work but in my (humbly democratic) view it's going to make absolutely no difference at all.
Actually this account is only the second I have created and that was just to be able to give you a reply. So where you get the idea that I'm spamming???? Bizarre. Guess you're just upset cos I don't love your idea. Oh well!

Dear Professor_Xbox, XS Filter - 043008 or what so ever

I dont really care how many accounts you created and are going to create in the future.
It is against the rules and if you create such an obvious nickname it is only a matter of time until the moderators see it anyway...

I think it is nice that the other methods are working so well for you I must have done it wrong then or it was just a coincidence...

The idea has proven to work several times especially for previously x-clamp fixed 360s, I do not deny that this is NOT the perfect way to fix 360s even this method got its flaws but so do all others, updates have to be made and they will come.
It worked for many members on here and got their 360s back to life, I must admit though that many are getting overheating error because of the different thicknesses of the credit cards.
If the chip is deformed or your credit card is too thick you have to sand it down because the height of the die changed...

Since I live in the Federal Republic of Germany I am used to "Democracy", you may not have noticed it but Germany got rid of its dictatorship 63 years ago...

I am getting the idea that you are spamming because you posted the link to your 360 repair kit 4 times in a row in 4 different topics even though and it was barely on topic at all except for the one "where can you buy x-clamp kits?"
This belongs in the BST forum but since you obviously dont care anyway it is just a waste of time telling you...

Am not upset because you dont like my idea am annoyed(to upset me you have to try harder) because you got banned in the first place thanks to that/you I wasted 75 on domains but this is another story, your sales attitude shed a bad light on you begging people to buy your kids just looks unprofessional.

Well enough hating for now all in all I must though say that you have done quite nice things in the past though your water cooling mods are outstanding but I dont share you opinion about this heatsink weight problem though...

QUOTE(alef @ Oct 4 2008, 10:29 PM)

Hey!

I used your method yesterday and it went green after some baking. It's all fine now although the thing that worries me a bit is the fan noise. Before 3RROD it was quiet and after applying the x-clamp fix the fan is acting like a jumbo jet [as in very VERY loud]. I was thinking about replacing the fans with some less noisy ones. I know it will help but what if they act up like the current, standard fans? I'm fairly sure I did every step of the process to the letter.
Thanks in advance.

Take off the heatsinks and check out of there is a clear imprint of thermal compound on both heatsinks if there isnt on one make sure the credit card pieces are not too thick if they are take them off and sand them down slightly..
I fthere is a good imprint on both you will not have cleaned the chips properly or so, make sure that they have a mirrorfinish..

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 5 2008, 08:06 PM)

I just heat gunned the board and now I don't have 0102 anymore, I get an instant 0020. I know that 0020 can be hard to fix and the option i'm left with is to heat gun the board once again. For that, do I have to concentrate on the GPU and RAM right? I didn't heat gun the bottom of the board yet, would you recommend me to do that first before heatgunning the GPU and RAM again?

Also, I wanted to know if 0102 overrides 0020, so that it means that I have fixed my 0102 and now the error to fix is the 0020?

Thanks for your kind help

Ye 0102 either hid it ornow everything is connected but shorting out, check out if the solder balls udner the GPU are in a good condition first.
For the heatgunning concentrate on the GPU RAM area thats correct...

QUOTE(dzydzy @ Oct 6 2008, 12:53 AM)

Got RROD again but I had to bake it (took like 15 hours).
Fixed the screws and got it to work without having to rebake.

Worked fine but just now the 360 turns on and gets green lights but the video is corrupted and freezes and stays stuck. wtf?

What does it look like is it like extreme artifacts or like a chessboard pattern?
It might be scaler chip related then like E74, slightly adjust the screws more and more only do it by a small bit you will have to fine tune it more if it is scaler chip related there will not be a way around the heatgun though

QUOTE(Vertex699 @ Oct 6 2008, 12:55 AM)

Hello.....
This is my first post...In any case, my Xbox 360 showed the 3RLOD few days ago after 10 months of peace approximately

.....it was a 0102 error.....i tried Wilhelm's method with slight unwanted modifications and it worked but now theres another problem.....my xbox 360 overheats and projects 2 red lights just after the blinking of the four green quadrants...I din get time to connect the fans..it was without the fans........Anyway what m I supposed to do now Wilhelm/Bosnia/M2X????

BTW i used rubber washers instead of the nylon ones cuz u wont get them here......also no spring washers so I used pieces of plastic card as washers making a hole in the centre

What do u say about that? Another thing is I couldnt scrape off the MS' thermal compound completely.....

Another question> there's some red light error fix guide by Chris jones and X-clamp replacement by the FIXYOUROWNXBOX guy.......do u guys know anything about them and r their repairs good enough?
U may also want to check this http://www.llamma.co...x-clamp_fix.htm out as xbox_expert advocates it lol.......

Before i end i must say Wilhelm's tutorial is outstanding....Thank u very much for that....

Hmmm

There are various reasons for the overheating.

If it is overheating pretty much immediately the heatsink wont be making contact with the chip die, this happens sometimes for the GPU then you will have to find out if it is your weird washer combination or the creditcard pieces that are preventing it from making good contact, just use metal washers only or if the cc pieces are the probem sand them down a bit until the heatsink is making good contact, even if it is just 0.05mm too thick it can already be fatal for the modification since it must also put the center of the chip under pressure.
To make sure that it does not only rest on the cc pieces make the layer of thermal compound as thin as possible

If it overheats after a while it will be the fact that you didnt clean microsofts stuff properly so redo it until it is perfect then and reapply an extremely thin layer of thermal compound...

Also get rid of your custom washers they will not do any good there just use normal metal washers if you dont have any spring washers...

I dont know anything about these guys since I never used their services , you might find some more details in the Service forum for modchip installers firmware flashers etc...

*EDIT*
And LOL @ bonzof 4 new posts since I started creating this reply, you seem to have too much time on your hands hahaha

Didnt see this 360 fixing advert on the forums yet though, where does it link to?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 6 2008, 03:46 AM)

Ye 0102 either hid it ornow everything is connected but shorting out, check out if the solder balls udner the GPU are in a good condition first.
For the heatgunning concentrate on the GPU RAM area thats correct...

Hello,

Yes I checked the balls under the CPU, GPU and RAM bricks last night and I noticed that there is a slight flexing on one side of the GPU and it wasn't really at a level with the board. Maybe it's the flexing that makes me see it that way. I'll check again when I get back home from work today and I'll post some pics of the GPU.

This post has been edited by arvkova: Oct 6 2008, 03:12 PM

Hello,

Here are some pics of the GPU and CPU solder balls

GPU Side 1:
IPB Image

GPU Side 2:
IPB Image

GPU Side 3:
IPB Image

GPU Side 4:
IPB Image

The CPU side 1:
IPB Image

CPU Side 2:
IPB Image

CPU Side 3:
IPB Image

Yes, I know I'm using some generic coolermaster thermal paste but I'll use AS5 as soon as I get it in the mail (have to import, no one sells that here in my country

)

http://www.elektroda...c...is&start=60
100X Hot Air bad

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 7 2008, 12:34 AM)

Hello,

Here are some pics of the GPU and CPU solder balls

GPU Side 3:
IPB Image

Who said again that the silicone chips dont flex

The flexing looks bad mate and the solder balls dont look good at all.
What I often do when I get flexed mobos like that is putlike too thick credit card pieces on, so that the heatsink doesnt have any contact with the center chip die, only with the credit cards.
If you would start the 360 like that it would overheat straight away...
and then I put the heatsink back on with the x-clamp bolts.
Then you bend the original x-clamp a bit so that it has more force and is harder to put on.
Once you got it back on it will flex the chip back in position slightly, you may not wait for too long because if it flexes it too long you might end up with too much flexing into the other direction.

Only do this if you tried everything else but this has got even extremely fucked up 360s with flexed GPUs after other x-clamp attempts back to work for me.
I leave the clamps on there for a day or two depending on how fast it works.

Just wanted to let you know that those little pads (made for balancing pressure on chips) have been working great. No problems thus far, I also added TIPs to the RAM under the GPU sink.

Looks like mine is back to workin! yeah! Had the 0102 error. I followed all the instructions and cut up my subway card (thanks Jared) and still had 3 RROD. Tightened up the screws a bit and its green... yeeeeaaahhh...noooo... 2 red lights - promptly overheated. Tightening it too much would make it RROD but not tight enough and it overheats.

After taking it apart again I discovered the GPU heatsink wasnt contacting the chip, so I took the cards off and left the washers. put it back together and bam. Workage. Theres still cards on the cpu so I guess the distance between the chip and heatsink was different for the CPU and GPU.

So thanks wilhelm. I must admit Im surprised it worked, partially cause of my luck and partially because it looks so ghetto rigged. But I gotta give props to your German engineering. Hopefully this lasts a while, if not Im hockin it for parts.

By the way watch out for those x-clamp bastards. I sliced the s out of my thumb trying to grab one.

This post has been edited by aeroshock: Oct 7 2008, 05:34 AM

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 7 2008, 03:43 AM)

The flexing looks bad mate and the solder balls dont look good at all.
What I often do when I get flexed mobos like that is putlike too thick credit card pieces on, so that the heatsink doesnt have any contact with the center chip die, only with the credit cards.
If you would start the 360 like that it would overheat straight away...
and then I put the heatsink back on with the x-clamp bolts.
Then you bend the original x-clamp a bit so that it has more force and is harder to put on.
Once you got it back on it will flex the chip back in position slightly, you may not wait for too long because if it flexes it too long you might end up with too much flexing into the other direction.

Only do this if you tried everything else but this has got even extremely fucked up 360s with flexed GPUs after other x-clamp attempts back to work for me.
I leave the clamps on there for a day or two depending on how fast it works.

Hmmm how bad are the solder balls? Like I won't be able to fix it with another heatgun pass?
Also, since my error is 0020/bridged joint, how can flexing it back to level repair the bridged joint/s ? Makes me wish I had an x-ray scanner

http://xe.brothersof...ex.php?n=repair
Wilhelm -I can see from the payment service.
workshop to work only gan Hot? and Torx opened.
Acha 2 020 post expert http://xe.brothersof...om/en/index.php
Spa... My xbox OK

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 7 2008, 11:34 AM)

Hmmm how bad are the solder balls? Like I won't be able to fix it with another heatgun pass?
Also, since my error is 0020/bridged joint, how can flexing it back to level repair the bridged joint/s ? Makes me wish I had an x-ray scanner

It can also be a cold joint imo, could only test that it can definitely be caused by a short or drawing power from the GPU(is quite hard just to remove a single solder ball under the chip lol)
I think it can also be a special kind of cold joint, like one that leads to a cap powering it or so

When you flex it back so that it is leveled again it will be easier to reflow it since the chip will be even at least, it looks like some of the outer solder balls are almost loose on your pictures.
This sometimes happens, humboldt had a 360 where you could clearly see it when I am home again I will post the picture...

@ the others:
I am glad that it worked for you guys, I could also have used this foam from AMD CPUs or whatever then it wouldnt have looked so "ghetto-like" but I wanted something that is available to everybody if people have to buy additional stuff it sucks and the credit cards work very well anyway...

And I am not an engineer lol, just a college student, am planning to study IT engineering when I am done with college and the army though...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 8 2008, 04:00 AM)

It can also be a cold joint imo, could only test that it can definitely be caused by a short or drawing power from the GPU(is quite hard just to remove a single solder ball under the chip lol)
I think it can also be a special kind of cold joint, like one that leads to a cap powering it or so

When you flex it back so that it is leveled again it will be easier to reflow it since the chip will be even at least, it looks like some of the outer solder balls are almost loose on your pictures.
This sometimes happens, humboldt had a 360 where you could clearly see it when I am home again I will post the picture...

Ok thanks for your valuable tips Wilhelm, I just placed the original xclamp + heatsink back on with thick square pieces. It overheated the GPU since there is no contact with the heatsink, so I'll leave it like that for 1 to 2 days as you said and I'll post my results.

Wilhelm, on rrod w/0022. Should focus on CPU or both?

QUOTE(Onimu @ Oct 9 2008, 05:03 AM)

Wilhelm, on rrod w/0022. Should focus on CPU or both?

GPU+ (H)ANA
-> 0022

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 7 2008, 01:43 AM)

Who said again that the silicone chips dont flex (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The flexing looks bad mate and the solder balls dont look good at all.
What I often do when I get flexed mobos like that is putlike too thick credit card pieces on

Hi Wilheim 1. I don't understand what you meant by silicone chips flexing.

From the pics they look like the chips are totally flat and have just lifted off on one corner
- like in the usual way when the MS x-clamps don't work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by redsock: Oct 10 2008, 11:39 PM

QUOTE(redsock @ Oct 11 2008, 12:38 AM)

Hi Wilheim 1. I don't understand what you meant by silicone chips flexing.

From the pics they look like the chips are totally flat and have just lifted off on one corner
- like in the usual way when the MS x-clamps don't work.

Nar the GPU isnt flat it is slightly flexed because the chip die was pressed into the actual chip too much...
If the chip was completely flat it would also not have lifted on one corner...

And when you take the x-clamps off it never looks like that the GPU will be flexed into the exact other direction, just slightly though, you can barely see it with your eyes...

Looking over Wilhelm_I's website and tutorial here. He has done some amazing work on these 3 Rrod boards.
I do have a couple of 360's here that I wouldn't mind trying this on. Question for the pro

You said when solder starts to reflow it turns yellow/goldish. Where do you see that at? On the surface mount components? or under the GPU and CPU? If its under how the heck do you see that?

Also I had one motherboard once that started sizzling the capacitors behind the CPU. Not bad I stopped when I heard the 3 of the start. Do you think this motherboard is dead? Would it still work with the capacitors like this?

Awesome work and Thank You for all the help for everyone.

QUOTE(manatarms25 @ Oct 11 2008, 04:19 PM)

Looking over Wilhelm_I's website and tutorial here. He has done some amazing work on these 3 Rrod boards.
I do have a couple of 360's here that I wouldn't mind trying this on. Question for the pro

You said when solder starts to reflow it turns yellow/goldish. Where do you see that at? On the surface mount components? or under the GPU and CPU? If its under how the heck do you see that?

Also I had one motherboard once that started sizzling the capacitors behind the CPU. Not bad I stopped when I heard the 3 of the start. Do you think this motherboard is dead? Would it still work with the capacitors like this?

Awesome work and Thank You for all the help for everyone.

depends on how damaged the caps are the ceramic ones are usually quite resistant so this will probably be no problem...
Forget the color thingy it is bullshit you cannot see if the solder is reflowed, the only way to see it is when you move the GPU and it falls off

Keep the timings, this reflows the shit for sure...

So I've finally managed to get my xbox to last about 7 hours and still going... but sometimes when I play certain games it freezes and i have to shut it down and I can simply turn it back on and it works again.

is it overheating or something? Seems to only do it with 1 game...

QUOTE(Vertex699 @ Oct 12 2008, 02:46 PM)

I guess my RROD is fixed but now when i play fifa it says the disc is unreadable.....not immediately though but sth like 10 min of play....Couldn't get the time to check other games.....Anyhow, how do i stop this?
BTW, are the 360 falcons susceptible to RROD? and when will they release JASPER?

yes they are there are a couple of examples on the forums, falcons fail a lot lately, fixed 2 of these this week already...

Make sure that the disc isnt scratched, if it is burn another copy....
If the problem persists go get some high quality media, Verbatims from Singapore...
If these dont work either you will have to tweak the laser, search for Moda's pot calibration tutorial then...

QUOTE(dzydzy @ Oct 12 2008, 09:02 PM)

So I've finally managed to get my xbox to last about 7 hours and still going... but sometimes when I play certain games it freezes and i have to shut it down and I can simply turn it back on and it works again.

is it overheating or something? Seems to only do it with 1 game...

If it only happens with this single game it might be a scratch on the disc, if it happens with others oa well there will still be a cold joint somewhere, adjusting the screws should make it go away then...

my dvd drive says 2005 so im guessing that it has a 2005 motherboard with it. Should i still heatgun it? Ive tried like everything to fix my xbox but nothing works. Should i keep trying non heat gunning techniques?

Hey Wilhelm,
I've been pretty busy with school so I haven't been able to try what you said until tonight. Basically I have a 0102 that has come back several times after xclamp, overheat, and also from heatgunning. Recently you told me to not heatgun because it would just keep coming back and the only real fix would be to find the correct tension on the screws. I tried that tonight starting at just barely holding the heatsinks on, then trying it, and tightening each of the screws about 1/8 to 1/4 turn, then trying again. I did this until all screws were fairly tight and didn't want to go any further just in case. Each time it was Rrod and still 0102. Would you recommend me posting some pics to see if there is anything you can see or is there something flawed in my methods?
Thanks

Ive got 2 xbox 360 consoles with 0110 errors

I tried heatgunning the Ram chips and the whole system twice but still no luck

I even tried the Penney fix still no luck

any ideas?

BTW the board has no noticible flex and is in physically 100% condition (under the naked eye)

QUOTE(reodan92 @ Oct 13 2008, 06:35 AM)

Hey does anyone know where i can get some Plastic Foil so i can heatgun my board? Also how exactly did he get such a perfect hole in the metal casing his motherboard sits in? i have like no tools that could make a perfect circle, would a dremel with a hole cutter head work?

You gotta cut out the whole window then , just get a 1cm drill this will do the job perfectly...
And the plastic foil can be bought at home depot or hardware stores

QUOTE(reodan92 @ Oct 13 2008, 07:21 AM)

my dvd drive says 2005 so im guessing that it has a 2005 motherboard with it. Should i still heatgun it? Ive tried like everything to fix my xbox but nothing works. Should i keep trying non heat gunning techniques?

Try non heat gunning techniques first some of these mobos flex extremely.
Adjust the tightness of the screws it is just a matter of time.
SInce you seem to have tried everything else heatgunning will be your only option though, just be very careful and it should be alright.

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 13 2008, 08:48 AM)

Hey Wilhelm,
I've been pretty busy with school so I haven't been able to try what you said until tonight. Basically I have a 0102 that has come back several times after xclamp, overheat, and also from heatgunning. Recently you told me to not heatgun because it would just keep coming back and the only real fix would be to find the correct tension on the screws. I tried that tonight starting at just barely holding the heatsinks on, then trying it, and tightening each of the screws about 1/8 to 1/4 turn, then trying again. I did this until all screws were fairly tight and didn't want to go any further just in case. Each time it was Rrod and still 0102. Would you recommend me posting some pics to see if there is anything you can see or is there something flawed in my methods?
Thanks

Hmm guess I told you not to overheat it dont think I told you not to heatgun it...

Some pictures of the GPU/CPU/ area below them might help to determine why it doesnt work.

QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Oct 13 2008, 08:55 AM)

Ive got 2 xbox 360 consoles with 0110 errors

I tried heatgunning the Ram chips and the whole system twice but still no luck

I even tried the Penney fix still no luck

any ideas?

BTW the board has no noticible flex and is in physically 100% condition (under the naked eye)

For how long did you heatgun it, did you keep the timings?

And just a general question @ ALL, why the hell do you ask stuff about the heatgunning process in this topic this is about the X-Clamp Fix, LOL.
Post your heatgun related questions in the heatgun thread

Full Mobo:
IPB Image

Top GPU:

Side GPU:

Side 2 GPU:
IPB Image

Side CPU:

Hope these pictures work.
If you see anything that could help me out that would be great.
Thanks!

So i did the wilhelm fix on the GPU only (and the 12v fan mod). Then the xbox started up but froze. So i did the fix on the CPU too.
However, after i did it, and started the xbox i got 2 blinks IMMEDIATLEY (it did startup just before).
What could it be? Does the CPU overheat that fast?

Raptor

Update to my post on the last page...

After a few days I think I have a problemo...I played xbox a ton over the weekend, and today i was playing again for a couple hours and the game crashed. So I restarted and when the game started there was red static on the screen. I figured something was overheating so I shut it off. Turned it back on an hour later and everything looked OK again but Im afraid to play it now. I dont want to cause permanent xbox damage.

Kind of weird that this would happen now instead of when I was playing all weekend...eh. what should I do?

I just found out about this fix the other day and it seems really interesting. I've had my 360 break in the past so I have repaired with the regular x-clamp fix and it just broke again the other day. I originally did the fix back in April so it has been working for some time now.
I opened my 360 up because I figured I would have to do it again but I completely forgot to check out what type of error code I am getting. My system turns on fine all the time but after about 10 minutes of play time I get graphical error suchs as green lines on everything, or a full lock up. Turn off the system, turn it back on and it works for another 10 minutes or so. I've only got the RROD once while my system has been acting up like this.
Now I don't know if I should go ahead and do this method or not because I'm unsure if it can help me out in any way. I was thinking if I were to put credit card pieces down I'd put them down in strips rather than little squares, wouldn't that work too?
I just took my 360 apart now and I noticed all that the majority of my nylon washers have melted together together with the metal ones. Are they safe to use again, or am I just wasting my time? I'd buy more but there is no where in town where I can buy them so I'd have to order online and wait a few weeks.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Any help is appreciated

OK So I did the Xclamp by your tutorial. I can get the xbox to work fine for about 8 startups, then it will first give the E74, then the RROD 0020. I tighten some more screws, same thing happens. What should i do?

Argh! I just noticed that I knocked off a couple of caps on the bottom of the GPU

I think it happened when I last tried to fix the original clamp harder. Wilhelm, do you happen to know what is the value of that cap and where can I get those?

IPB Image

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 14 2008, 03:07 PM)

Well, after the first attempt I didn't see any difference in the flexing level of the GPU, so I bent the X-Clamp some more and still nothing after two days. Then I bent it more and it got very hard to fix it to the heat-sink. Left it for two days and still nothing

I'm going to try with the thick square pieces and the x-clamp replacement and see it there's any difference...

This was the first GOOD tut I found. Here's what I did differently: I added 1mm squares of aluminum to the RAM chips instead of washers since they cover the whole chip and I omitted the padding squares on the GPU since my RAM padding did more than a good job helping level the heatsink. I'll have to play w/ my elite more to see just how well this worked, but it lost E74 immidiately after this fix.

I think that RAM padding is a very good idea and with it the padding around GPU only makes the sink lose contact, so its not necessary. CPU did fine with pads, so I let that one be until it proves otherwise. Lastly, don't use regular tape in areas with high heats- thats asking for a mess. Thermal grease did a fine job acting as glue until the sink was installed.

So I went ahead and did this fix and I used tape instead of thermal paste. I didn't use strips of the credit card I decided to use little squares.
I turned on my 360 and it worked for about 2 secs and then it overheated. And it continues to overheat as soon as I turn it one. The system starts up like a plane taking off. The fans get louder and louder until they shutdown and I get the 2 rings.
Anyone have any idea how I can fix this? I am getting the error code 0012. So overheating according to some sites.
Maybe I used too much tape? or not enough thermal paste maybe? Any clues?

It sounds like the credit card pieces may be too thick, take off the heatsinks and make sure that the thermal paste has made contact with them - you should be able to see an imprint of the microsoft text on them.

This happened to me the first time I did this fix, as advised I sanded the credit card down a little to reduce the thickness. Also make sure that the tape you are using is thin enough to not interfere with the heatsinks making contact with the GPU/CPU.

Right after I made that post I took my Xbox apart again and checked the tape. It seemed that it was rising and probably a bit too thick. So I tore it all off and them placed the credit card pieces down with the thermal paste. Also recleaned the CPU/GPU and put new paste down, a little thicker and more even this time.
My Xbox worked fine right away and stayed on for about 20 minutes or so. I would have tested it longer but I had to go to work.
Anyways, I'm hoping this thing will do the trick. Even if I can get another few months out of it.

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 14 2008, 06:04 AM)

Full Mobo:

Hope these pictures work.
If you see anything that could help me out that would be great.
Thanks!

So far all looks good, try to keep the timings and change them a little bit, recently I have been reflowing my stuff like that 1 minute on low to preheat then 4 minutes on high and then another minute on low but meanwhile you move away further and further from the mobo to reduce temperature, in this way it will not cool down rapidly...
And use less thermal compound this is way too much, just an ultra thin layer, that is almost transparent already...

QUOTE(raptor18 @ Oct 14 2008, 09:32 AM)

So i did the wilhelm fix on the GPU only (and the 12v fan mod). Then the xbox started up but froze. So i did the fix on the CPU too.
However, after i did it, and started the xbox i got 2 blinks IMMEDIATLEY (it did startup just before).
What could it be? Does the CPU overheat that fast?

Raptor

Ye , take the CPU heatsink off and check if there is an imprint of thermal compound on it, if not take off the cc pieces and use sand paper to make them thinner, also take care of what I told strife, then it should not overheat anymore and the freezing GPU will need some more tweaking, like adjust the screws slightly til it goes away...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 14 2008, 08:45 PM)

I just found out about this fix the other day and it seems really interesting. I've had my 360 break in the past so I have repaired with the regular x-clamp fix and it just broke again the other day. I originally did the fix back in April so it has been working for some time now.
I opened my 360 up because I figured I would have to do it again but I completely forgot to check out what type of error code I am getting. My system turns on fine all the time but after about 10 minutes of play time I get graphical error suchs as green lines on everything, or a full lock up. Turn off the system, turn it back on and it works for another 10 minutes or so. I've only got the RROD once while my system has been acting up like this.
Now I don't know if I should go ahead and do this method or not because I'm unsure if it can help me out in any way. I was thinking if I were to put credit card pieces down I'd put them down in strips rather than little squares, wouldn't that work too?
I just took my 360 apart now and I noticed all that the majority of my nylon washers have melted together together with the metal ones. Are they safe to use again, or am I just wasting my time? I'd buy more but there is no where in town where I can buy them so I'd have to order online and wait a few weeks.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Any help is appreciated

Ye little stripes are actually better because you can sand them down more easily than the little squares...
If the nylon ones have really melted just get metal washers only...

And your error code will have been 0022 or E74 that the only one with vertical lines, will very likely need a reflow...

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

Well, after the first attempt I didn't see any difference in the flexing level of the GPU, so I bent the X-Clamp some more and still nothing after two days. Then I bent it more and it got very hard to fix it to the heat-sink. Left it for two days and still nothing

I'm going to try with the thick square pieces and the x-clamp replacement and see it there's any difference...

QUOTE(XXpMuneyXX @ Oct 15 2008, 06:43 PM)

OK So I did the Xclamp by your tutorial. I can get the xbox to work fine for about 8 startups, then it will first give the E74, then the RROD 0020. I tighten some more screws, same thing happens. What should i do?

try to loosen them a bit 0020 is because of too much tension most times, when it heats up the pressure increases.
You should only end up with E74, if this one keeps appearing even after adjusting it more you will have to reflow the (H)ANA chip with a heatgun...

QUOTE(arvkova @ Oct 15 2008, 07:04 PM)

Argh! I just noticed that I knocked off a couple of caps on the bottom of the GPU

I think it happened when I last tried to fix the original clamp harder. Wilhelm, do you happen to know what is the value of that cap and where can I get those?

Dont have the values for these and cant get them either, the only one who might have the values is RDC, however I got two spare mobos and could desolder+ ship the parts to you if you are interested...

QUOTE(Skv012a @ Oct 15 2008, 07:24 PM)

This was the first GOOD tut I found. Here's what I did differently: I added 1mm squares of aluminum to the RAM chips instead of washers since they cover the whole chip and I omitted the padding squares on the GPU since my RAM padding did more than a good job helping level the heatsink. I'll have to play w/ my elite more to see just how well this worked, but it lost E74 immidiately after this fix.

I think that RAM padding is a very good idea and with it the padding around GPU only makes the sink lose contact, so its not necessary. CPU did fine with pads, so I let that one be until it proves otherwise. Lastly, don't use regular tape in areas with high heats- thats asking for a mess. Thermal grease did a fine job acting as glue until the sink was installed.

The heat isnt that high, max like 50°C is good for the stuff it doesnt melt at these temps...
Got one back after like 7 months and the tape was still in the same condition...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 15 2008, 09:25 PM)

So I went ahead and did this fix and I used tape instead of thermal paste. I didn't use strips of the credit card I decided to use little squares.
I turned on my 360 and it worked for about 2 secs and then it overheated. And it continues to overheat as soon as I turn it one. The system starts up like a plane taking off. The fans get louder and louder until they shutdown and I get the 2 rings.
Anyone have any idea how I can fix this? I am getting the error code 0012. So overheating according to some sites.
Maybe I used too much tape? or not enough thermal paste maybe? Any clues?

sand the pieces down a bit the heatsinks doesnt have any contact to the chip die...

QUOTE(namzuf9 @ Oct 16 2008, 01:27 AM)

It sounds like the credit card pieces may be too thick, take off the heatsinks and make sure that the thermal paste has made contact with them - you should be able to see an imprint of the microsoft text on them.

This happened to me the first time I did this fix, as advised I sanded the credit card down a little to reduce the thickness. Also make sure that the tape you are using is thin enough to not interfere with the heatsinks making contact with the GPU/CPU.

Ye it is really tricky because you must have the perfect thickness if it is too thick it might first overheat and the center of the chip will not be taken under pressure, if it is too thin the outer chip wont be taken under pressure, make sure that you use an extremely thin layer of thermal compound because if you use too much it wont overheat if the chip die doesnt have contact to the heatsink, it also needs pressure otherwise the fix will not work properly...

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 16 2008, 03:52 AM)

Right after I made that post I took my Xbox apart again and checked the tape. It seemed that it was rising and probably a bit too thick. So I tore it all off and them placed the credit card pieces down with the thermal paste. Also recleaned the CPU/GPU and put new paste down, a little thicker and more even this time.
My Xbox worked fine right away and stayed on for about 20 minutes or so. I would have tested it longer but I had to go to work.
Anyways, I'm hoping this thing will do the trick. Even if I can get another few months out of it.

read my statement above...

QUOTE(J_star @ Oct 16 2008, 12:05 PM)

I just openend mine xbox, finding out that mine ram peaces already have some gum like stuff on it (back side).

I was wondering if you still need to put the metal washes on them for cooling?

This is the bottom RAM the washer is for the top RAM...

I'm unable to find 1mm thick nylon washers, only 2mm thick nylon washers and 1mm thick metal washers.

Would you reccomend using 2x 1mm metal washers, or just the 2mm nylon washer alone, or something else all together.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 05:09 AM)

Ye little stripes are actually better because you can sand them down more easily than the little squares...
If the nylon ones have really melted just get metal washers only...

And your error code will have been 0022 or E74 that the only one with vertical lines, will very likely need a reflow...

You maybe right about the error code 0022, I know for sure it wasn't the E74 one though. At first I thought the washers melted together, but afterwards I noticed they were just stuck together very tightly but managable to take apart. I decided againest the strips afterwards too, they were too hard to tape down properly.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 11:04 AM)

sand the pieces down a bit the heatsinks doesnt have any contact to the chip die...

Yeah I didn't have to do this after. It appears that I used too much tape and that it was rising off of the squares. I later took all the tape off and helf the squares down with the paste. The Xbox has been working fine ever since. So thanks for this guide. I'm hoping to fix my friends system this weekend too.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM)

So far all looks good, try to keep the timings and change them a little bit, recently I have been reflowing my stuff like that 1 minute on low to preheat then 4 minutes on high and then another minute on low but meanwhile you move away further and further from the mobo to reduce temperature, in this way it will not cool down rapidly...
And use less thermal compound this is way too much, just an ultra thin layer, that is almost transparent already...

Alright well I find it weird that I have heatgunned it twice and each time it did work....then stopped working again. There is no flexing at all or any uneven pressure. I might try to heatgun it again and maybe just use metal washers. I've heard of nylon expanding and if so possibly screwing something up.
As for thermal paste ive been using about that much maybe a bit less for all other times. I read in one of your other posts that it could give the look of it being in contact but actually be too high and the credit cards not really working correctly. Though if this was the problem you would think that it would create even pressure around the chip and then there would be a possibility of getting an overheat error.
I don't know, it is just mind-boggling and frustrating that it doesn't work even though there are no signs saying there is something specific wrong. It looks like the fixes that you have should work and then after a few times playing it goes back to 0102. This is the reason im kinda thinking it has to be some sort of heat/expansion or cool/contraction problem after playing it a few times.

QUOTE(Onimu @ Oct 17 2008, 12:14 AM)

My Falcon replace w/Credit card and X-clamp die today while playing with Forza 2. It last about month since. I rarely use this console. Maybe less then half hour a day. Well, I check your website show on rrod w/ S-code 0101 without video/audio mean something connection on usb port. I have never used that usb port. It must be the GPU problem again.

Also, how do you guys heatgun the falcon board? There're silicon pieces around the GPU area. Should remove it before heatgun. I'm surely the heat will melt that silicon pieces during heatgun job.

Nope the pieces are alright just leave em there they will assist you in the process because they keep the GPU and CPU in place

QUOTE(Tik-Tok @ Oct 17 2008, 12:23 AM)

I'm unable to find 1mm thick nylon washers, only 2mm thick nylon washers and 1mm thick metal washers.

Would you reccomend using 2x 1mm metal washers, or just the 2mm nylon washer alone, or something else all together.

Just use 2x 1mm metal washers, they will work fine

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 17 2008, 07:21 AM)

You maybe right about the error code 0022, I know for sure it wasn't the E74 one though. At first I thought the washers melted together, but afterwards I noticed they were just stuck together very tightly but managable to take apart. I decided againest the strips afterwards too, they were too hard to tape down properly.
Yeah I didn't have to do this after. It appears that I used too much tape and that it was rising off of the squares. I later took all the tape off and helf the squares down with the paste. The Xbox has been working fine ever since. So thanks for this guide. I'm hoping to fix my friends system this weekend too.

Nice am glad it worked for you

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 17 2008, 07:44 AM)

Alright well I find it weird that I have heatgunned it twice and each time it did work....then stopped working again. There is no flexing at all or any uneven pressure. I might try to heatgun it again and maybe just use metal washers. I've heard of nylon expanding and if so possibly screwing something up.
As for thermal paste ive been using about that much maybe a bit less for all other times. I read in one of your other posts that it could give the look of it being in contact but actually be too high and the credit cards not really working correctly. Though if this was the problem you would think that it would create even pressure around the chip and then there would be a possibility of getting an overheat error.
I don't know, it is just mind-boggling and frustrating that it doesn't work even though there are no signs saying there is something specific wrong. It looks like the fixes that you have should work and then after a few times playing it goes back to 0102. This is the reason im kinda thinking it has to be some sort of heat/expansion or cool/contraction problem after playing it a few times.

Hmm I doubt that it is overheating but if it is like that try to sand the stripes down slightly the next time, the thermal compound should leave a clear imprint on the heatsink, it might not be taking the chip die under perfect pressure still.
The reason why it fails can be heat but I would rather bet on the uneven pressure stuff.

QUOTE(cky71321 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:46 AM)

Long story short, I fixed my RROD'd launch model last September with RBJtech's tutorial. The RROD resurfaced last night while I was trying to play the Endwar demo. Anyway, I can't seem to understand if your newer method can actually revive the box again since it's already been opened and modded. If you think it'll work, I would love to give it a try.

Most 360s that I repaired with it had been x-clamped already, like 90%, very rarely get sealed systems...
Depends on the error code really though and if it is CPU/GPU related how deformed the chip/mainboard is.
Get your secondary error code to make sure that the error can be fixed with it.

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 20 2008, 11:14 AM)

Most 360s that I repaired with it had been x-clamped already, like 90%, very rarely get sealed systems...
Depends on the error code really though and if it is CPU/GPU related how deformed the chip/mainboard is.
Get your secondary error code to make sure that the error can be fixed with it.

Error code 0102, the same as I had last year. Looks like it's worth a shot to me.

My Xbox 360 died just now again. It appears I have the error code 0102.
Now you said that I could sand down the credit card pieces, but couldn't I just redo the whole thing with a slightly thinner credit card? I think if I sand them down I'd probably get uneven edges.
Now I just noticed a guide from a link in your sig that I could heatgun it. Should I do that, or would you recommend I try your method again with thinner pieces first.
http://xbox-experts....p?n=heatgunisol

QUOTE(XXpMuneyXX @ Oct 20 2008, 06:10 PM)

ok So did the replacement Via your tutorial about 2 weeks ago, I get it running then it craps out after 15 mintues (max), been fiddling with screws for two weeks now, whats my problem? Will adjusting the screws fix me? or is it a lost cause. Also have put the penny trick in, and out, baked it before, and just cant get past the 15 minute hump.

Hmmm.
Do you still know your initial error code?
It really depends on the actual issue and baking it is never a real way to fix it, you will either have to find the proper setting with the screws or if you cant get it to work at all without overheating you will have to heatgun it.
Get your error code first though, you might be trying to fix the wrong thing...

QUOTE(cky71321 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:27 PM)

Error code 0102, the same as I had last year. Looks like it's worth a shot to me.

QUOTE(HopOnRocks @ Oct 20 2008, 08:46 PM)

My Xbox 360 died just now again. It appears I have the error code 0102.
Now you said that I could sand down the credit card pieces, but couldn't I just redo the whole thing with a slightly thinner credit card? I think if I sand them down I'd probably get uneven edges.
Now I just noticed a guide from a link in your sig that I could heatgun it. Should I do that, or would you recommend I try your method again with thinner pieces first.
http://xbox-experts....p?n=heatgunisol

Sure you could but on the other hand this one might already be too thin then, the sanding keeps it even, what works best for me is to take the 4 stripes, put em on a piece of tape, so that it forms a panel like and then you sand it...
It becomes even then, sanding a single stripe is indeed a bit difficult and will not work too well...

Try it again with thinner pieces for sure, heatgunning should always only be used as a last resort.

extended error code is 1022. checked the AV cable with a good one, not that, n=so I guess only thing left is encoder chip.

Hey guys, my cousins xbox had RROD 0020 (overheating?) and it's been about 4 weeks or so, and it started to freeze during the xbox splash animation and then it red ringed shortly afterwards 0102 (error in the digital back bone, ram, gpu/cpu)

So I tried my own version of your improved xclamp mod Wilhelm and I cleaned up the old thermal paste and added fresh paste.

It didn't work and I tried "baking" for the first time. I put the dvd drive in and put the fan face down on the cpu heatsink (blowing air IN, not sure if that's the best but it's easier)
I waited about 1:30 and shut it off, later on, it was still 0102.
I tried again and baked it for 2:00 and the fan reved up a little so I stopped it. Later on, it was great, I put it all back and played a game, and it froze (no sound, still picture) about 30 minutes in. Turning it on again gave 0102 again.
Took it all apart and baked it for 3:00 and it worked and later I played for maybe 10 minutes and it froze...

So, now, perhaps the fault is under the CPU and I should remove the dvd drive and the fan and let the CPU get hotter...
Or maybe I need to consider tightening my screws a bit as soon as the 360 has gotten hot. Do you think I need to let it cook so long that I get 2 red lights?

PS: hopefully the fault isn't under the ram... maybe I should find a couple washers to put on top? But I have a feeling the MOBO needs to be heatgunned

Guys, thanks so much for reading and shedding light on all this stuff, you're amazing

Hey,
So i can get my xbox to work again after heatgunning. It goes green lights and everything for a couple days and then stops and goes back to the 0102 problem initially. It is the same as before Im using nylon washers less thermal paste and have not received any overheating issues at all. I use the credit card pieces on the corners too. I do not move the Mobo until cooled and I do not move the Xbox after playing for the few days so I can't blame it on something hitting something loose. You saw the pictures before and everything seems in place and I'm having a hard time explaining why it stops if I change nothing. I know your prevailing theory is uneven pressure/stress on the mobo creating bad connection on GPU/CPU but there is no stress being put on them. There is holes in the chassis giving plenty of room for my screws, the only other thing putting pressure on the mobo is the weight of the heatsinks and the screws holding the mobo in the case.

Do you have any other theories or anything that I may be overlooking in the ways of pressure or stress?

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Oct 21 2008, 11:47 PM)

Hmmm.
Do you still know your initial error code?
It really depends on the actual issue and baking it is never a real way to fix it, you will either have to find the proper setting with the screws or if you cant get it to work at all without overheating you will have to heatgun it.
Get your error code first though, you might be trying to fix the wrong thing...
Sure you could but on the other hand this one might already be too thin then, the sanding keeps it even, what works best for me is to take the 4 stripes, put em on a piece of tape, so that it forms a panel like and then you sand it...
It becomes even then, sanding a single stripe is indeed a bit difficult and will not work too well...

Try it again with thinner pieces for sure, heatgunning should always only be used as a last resort.

Is this new x-clamp method permanant because i just got RROD again from standard x-clamp.

QUOTE(Brian X360 @ Oct 25 2008, 02:24 AM)

Is this new x-clamp method permanant because i just got RROD again from standard x-clamp.

Hey I think all this work you guyz have done to try and help with these issues are great and all, but instead of going through all the trouble with gpu dies, clamp pressure and so on, wouldn't it be easier to try and eliminate the real culprit which is heat. If you cooled the hell out of the box, wouldn't this prevent the board from warping to the point of dislodging the gpu or other components. How much would you need to cool it by to eliminate these problems. These solutions seem more reactive than proactive, not knocking them if they work. Just wonder if another approach is needed. I mean if Microsoft is designing smaller chips to put in newer versions and eventually two chips on one die and smaller chips mean less heat. Then it's pretty clear that the real issue is heat. Obviously once the damage is done, it's too late. But if they (Microsoft) sees excessive heat as the problem, then sounds probable that a good way of preventing these types of problems would require excessive cooling. No?

Oh well, there we go again...

Sorry for being offline for a while but I had some stress, with school and yesterday conscription got my arse as well(ye we still got this over here).
Sucks pretty much that the government reserves the right to force young men to join the army but thats just the way it is.
As they found me suitable(T2) in the medical and psychological tests it looks like I am gonna be crawling in tactical gear with a G36C through the mud in the near future.
Havent got the letter yet with the date and shit but I am expecting it soon since I am almost done with college.
The whole fun will take at least a year.
I hope they will not decide to send me to Afghanistan to "fight for the peace"(thats the nice slogan of the German army lol)
Wont be online a lot in this time so... hope some of you will miss me at least a bit

Alright, lets see what weve got here.

QUOTE(__Blaz0__ @ Oct 21 2008, 08:52 PM)

Well, like many in this thread my Xbox has taken a straight path the the electronic graveyard. Mid session in a Gears of War game, the screen went crazy with all types of characters. At that point I knew it was busted. I have witnessed a few vid card failures on PC's to know it was gone. Turn box off, then back on. Boom, red light. #4, error code 74. Just reading now, I learned how to test the secondary error code which I will try tonight.

Yesterday I picked up the hardware to swap out the X clamp. The procedure went great. Reattached the GPU heat sink, packed the DVD drive on, and plugged a fan in to cool CPU(At this point, it is just the motherboard sitting on a dictionary with everything loaded up on). Turned on, look to my disbelief, it actually worked. Lights go green and right to dashboard. Turn to my buddy that stopped over and give high fives, etc. All proud of myself I proceed to put everything back together.

I get it all back in place, back to normal, turn on power. What do I see now, back to square one. Light #4 comes on blinking red. I'm not sure if I maybe wiggled something back into place when I was doing the X-clamp fix or what. I plan on borrowing a heat gun tonight to try to give that a go. Has anyone had a similar experience with it working then not? I would love to be able to fix this as I am not just yet ready to plunk down my hard earned cash for something that is not my fault. I take good care of my equipment and feel I am getting the short end of the stick here. I have multiple original Xboxes that have never failed me.

-Blaz0

QUOTE(__Blaz0__ @ Oct 22 2008, 01:41 AM)

extended error code is 1022. checked the AV cable with a good one, not that, n=so I guess only thing left is encoder chip.

E74 is pretty retarded, the 360s just randomly work sometimes even with the 1 red light still flashing but after a couple of minutes the screen will get artifacts etc...
Since the X-Clamp replacement didnt work you will have to give the heatgun a go this works in most cases...

QUOTE(Rickets06 @ Oct 24 2008, 10:29 PM)

Hey guys, my cousins xbox had RROD 0020 (overheating?) and it's been about 4 weeks or so, and it started to freeze during the xbox splash animation and then it red ringed shortly afterwards 0102 (error in the digital back bone, ram, gpu/cpu)

So I tried my own version of your improved xclamp mod Wilhelm and I cleaned up the old thermal paste and added fresh paste.

It didn't work and I tried "baking" for the first time. I put the dvd drive in and put the fan face down on the cpu heatsink (blowing air IN, not sure if that's the best but it's easier)
I waited about 1:30 and shut it off, later on, it was still 0102.
I tried again and baked it for 2:00 and the fan reved up a little so I stopped it. Later on, it was great, I put it all back and played a game, and it froze (no sound, still picture) about 30 minutes in. Turning it on again gave 0102 again.
Took it all apart and baked it for 3:00 and it worked and later I played for maybe 10 minutes and it froze...

So, now, perhaps the fault is under the CPU and I should remove the dvd drive and the fan and let the CPU get hotter...
Or maybe I need to consider tightening my screws a bit as soon as the 360 has gotten hot. Do you think I need to let it cook so long that I get 2 red lights?

PS: hopefully the fault isn't under the ram... maybe I should find a couple washers to put on top? But I have a feeling the MOBO needs to be heatgunned

Guys, thanks so much for reading and shedding light on all this stuff, you're amazing

Overheating is not gonna fix it no matter how long you wait...
Adjust the tightness of the screws, make them tighter, just a bit you dont want it to get back 0020 if it does loosen them a bit...
If you cant make it go away at all you will have to heatgun it...

QUOTE(strife18 @ Oct 24 2008, 11:28 PM)

Hey,
So i can get my xbox to work again after heatgunning. It goes green lights and everything for a couple days and then stops and goes back to the 0102 problem initially. It is the same as before Im using nylon washers less thermal paste and have not received any overheating issues at all. I use the credit card pieces on the corners too. I do not move the Mobo until cooled and I do not move the Xbox after playing for the few days so I can't blame it on something hitting something loose. You saw the pictures before and everything seems in place and I'm having a hard time explaining why it stops if I change nothing. I know your prevailing theory is uneven pressure/stress on the mobo creating bad connection on GPU/CPU but there is no stress being put on them. There is holes in the chassis giving plenty of room for my screws, the only other thing putting pressure on the mobo is the weight of the heatsinks and the screws holding the mobo in the case.

Do you have any other theories or anything that I may be overlooking in the ways of pressure or stress?

Try to tighten the screws down more and see if this helps, it somehow looses contact after a bit again, and make sure that the cc pieces got the perfect height, that the actual chip die makes good contact but I guess I have told you already about that so just ignore it if you did it already...

QUOTE(CrackHour @ Oct 25 2008, 04:21 AM)

Hey I think all this work you guyz have done to try and help with these issues are great and all, but instead of going through all the trouble with gpu dies, clamp pressure and so on, wouldn't it be easier to try and eliminate the real culprit which is heat. If you cooled the hell out of the box, wouldn't this prevent the board from warping to the point of dislodging the gpu or other components. How much would you need to cool it by to eliminate these problems. These solutions seem more reactive than proactive, not knocking them if they work. Just wonder if another approach is needed. I mean if Microsoft is designing smaller chips to put in newer versions and eventually two chips on one die and smaller chips mean less heat. Then it's pretty clear that the real issue is heat. Obviously once the damage is done, it's too late. But if they (Microsoft) sees excessive heat as the problem, then sounds probable that a good way of preventing these types of problems would require excessive cooling. No?

Ye it is recommended to keep it as cool as possible this will prevent the deformations by heat.
However you must regard that there is always flexing no matter how warm it is, thanks to the X-Clamps and other design flaws that cause static flexing...
Falcons are failing more and more as well the older they get, just like the Xenon models, the cooling just makes it last slightly longer...

I fixed an RROD xbox with this tutorial a couple of days ago but the fan was running very fast and loud. I've used it for 1 or 2 days then finally I got a 2 flashing redlights. I did the heatgun trick and it started working again but the fan is still really loud. I've fixed 4 or 5 xboxes already but i've never had this problem. I appreciate any suggestions.

I bought mine washers, but 2 that i have spare i thought of using for the ram, is much lager then the ram itself i was wondering if this is a problem, its 20mm big

I did this version of x-clamp, but mine xbox whent frome showing no video to 3 red lights and doing nothing, not even spining the fans

I tryd the word around, but nothing worked

I think i broke it or i just wont turn on because it wont get hot afther 3 minuts

QUOTE(J_star @ Oct 27 2008, 06:07 PM)

I did this version of x-clamp, but mine xbox whent frome showing no video to 3 red lights and doing nothing, not even spining the fans

I tryd the word around, but nothing worked

I think i broke it or i just wont turn on because it wont get hot afther 3 minuts

same thing happened to me. any idea whats up?

the power light on the brick doesnt change colors either, and it isnt the brick it does it with any brick

"Overheating is not gonna fix it no matter how long you wait...
Adjust the tightness of the screws, make them tighter, just a bit you dont want it to get back 0020 if it does loosen them a bit...
If you cant make it go away at all you will have to heatgun it..."

Thanks for the reply Wilhelm! Sorry about the news, stay sharp man... But uh, I hear you can really wrench the crap out of the screws as long as you tighten one at a time, little by little (just like a rim on a car)
So I should go ahead and snug them way way way down like that? I do have 4 pieces of credit card on the corners for both chips...

I gotta check my thermal paste on the gpu cuz I was moving the heat sink around... so, I'll check back just to make sure i'm not going to end up with something broken like crazy. Thanks for the help Wilhelm, good luck

hey i did ur method and it rrod'd again after 4 days. Would tightening the screws do anything??? Basically the 360 isn't really hot when it rrod'd and I drilled holes on the bottom so the screws would fit through and not flex the board. any tips?

Heat gun? Tightening the screws? Letting the 360 heat up for 2min?

Error 0102 to fixed to 0102

QUOTE(bobasp1 @ Oct 28 2008, 11:21 PM)

hey i did ur method and it rrod'd again after 4 days. Would tightening the screws do anything??? Basically the 360 isn't really hot when it rrod'd and I drilled holes on the bottom so the screws would fit through and not flex the board. any tips?
Heat gun? Tightening the screws? Letting the 360 heat up for 2min?
Error 0102 to fixed to 0102

Ohh ffs why is the edit button disappear after like an hour >_>

The holes i screwed for the board isn't fitting anymore which sounds like it was flexing and making a huge amount of stress on the screws that were putting pressure on the mobo from the corners of the holes.

Have you seen that before? Oh and the cpu and gpu are not to hot.

I took it out, changed the screws tightness, and then the no fan thing for about a min. Waited 25 min and tried again but i just didn't put it in its case it seemed to work just fine, but i cant get it back in the holes O_O. Should i just make the holes like an extra 2.5mm of space?

I'm attempting to repair my console and got to the part where I took my x-clamps off. Now I'm trying to remove the thermal paste.

I was slightly alarmed because the thermal paste looks like it was over-applied:

http://img522.images...cimg1522ar5.jpg

Is this normal? If not, how should I go about removing this? Is removing it necessary? There are those small silver rectangular things with paste on them, and I don't want to damage them or scrape them off or something ridiculous like that. Not that I'm sure such is possible, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Bottle says 91% but I'm not having much luck getting a mirror finish. How long should it take me?

Well no luck so far. I put everything together and got freezing/RROD before I really even played anything. I would post this in the success thread but there are a number of things I could be doing wrong. I was rather unsure about applying the thermal paste.

Firstly I was unable to get a complete mirror finish on the dies. Close to it but not perfect. Honestly I spent a few hours trying to get them clean and eventually gave up trying to get it perfect but I was aware it might screw me over later.

I used a grain of rice like stated and spread it with a credit card but it was never quite "even", each time I spread it, it seemed a little off.

My washers may not be the right size. The heatsinks are heating up but I'm not sure if they're making direct contact with the GPU/CPU. I know my screws are the right ones. I ordered this stuff off Amazon instead of going to Home Depot so I tried to get as close as possible to 2mm total.

I guess I'll take everything apart and try again and attempt to do a better job.

Had better luck this time but the console still froze.

This time I did clean to a mirror finish (somehow applying more paste made the paste come up way easier). I also followed the instructions for applying my thermal compound. It is not Arctic Silver 5 but Arctic "Ceramique" which is actually supposed to be a couple degrees cooler. However, one does not spread it like they would AS5, rather they rub some compound into the heatsink and apply a dab to the CPU and smash them together like a sandwich, I suppose.

I was running Gears of War (which I figured would be a good stress test) and got about five minutes in before it froze. I really hate the feeling of my console being a ticking time-bomb!

At this point I guess I'll try tightening the screws or perhaps reducing the tightness. I don't know. Maybe I have to give the compound some hours to settle or something. (Wishful thinking.)

[quote name='Vertex699' date='Oct 27 2008, 12:23 PM' post='4364675']

No the light wont turn on of the psu.

Only 3 light blinking, so it is worse than what i started with.

how much temp for cpu & gpu after this mod?

I am not sure because i dont have a temp gun but gauging it off the temp of the air coming out of the back of the 360 it dosent feel any hotter than room temp just real powerful "wind" coming out of the thing.. I did notice a massive difference though when i removed the card from the GPU Heatsink in the fact that it was just cool to touch,, No where near how hot it was before the mod, i would say near to room temp again..

excelent work balenski79 just a quick question

would you suggest putting a smaller fan near the Harddrive connector as there are some holes there and you can get some airflow inside the system

The more airflow you can get into the xbox 360 the better, The fans at the back modded to 12v are ample to drag the air out but remember.. Once you do this mod the cpu heatsink is the sucking point for all other air in the case that isent part of the ducting system

QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Nov 3 2008, 04:14 AM)

excelent work balenski79 just a quick question

would you suggest putting a smaller fan near the Harddrive connector as there are some holes there and you can get some airflow inside the system

You wont be able to fit a fan on the left, it must be thinner than 1mm and not bigger than 3x3mm...

This extended fan shroud is a good idea though, will bring 2 or 3 extra °C

QUOTE(siskue2005 @ Nov 4 2008, 05:55 AM)

but i am a bit confused , where does the AMD fan draw air from??
Should i make a round hole in the 360 outer case?? so that the fan gets more air from outside?(i saw a similar photo of a 360 in Llamma's site)

is the AMD fan drawing air inwards or pushing it outwards???

why cant i edit??

anyways
i was talking about this picture
should i make a hole like this??
IPB Image

and also i saw people adding two fans inside like this
is it worth trying that??
plz help thankz
IPB Image

yeah the pic looks ok, just put a grille over it or somethin to protect any unwanted fingers bein mangled up,

the fan is pushing air into the xbox not drawing it!!!!

MAKE SURE YOU GET THIS THE RIGHT WAY AROUND OR ELSE FRONT AND BACK FANS WILL CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT AND THE WHOLE THING IS POINTLESS (CHECK THE ARROWS ON THE SIDE OF THE FAN FOR DIRECTION OF SPIN AND FLOW OF AIR

as for the cardboard no it should be fine, the cardboard i used was the dual layered corrugated stuff which you could bend into a perfect line so it acts as an airgap between top and bottom layers prob 1-2mm thick.

the cardboard only acts as a duct for the air to travel so by the time the air is being passed over the heatsinks it wont have time to heat up... Unless you got something SERIOUSLY wrong with ur xbox but yeah mate that should be ok!

QUOTE(balenski79 @ Nov 4 2008, 07:30 AM)

yeah the pic looks ok, just put a grille over it or somethin to protect any unwanted fingers bein mangled up,

the fan is pushing air into the xbox not drawing it!!!!

MAKE SURE YOU GET THIS THE RIGHT WAY AROUND OR ELSE FRONT AND BACK FANS WILL CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT AND THE WHOLE THING IS POINTLESS (CHECK THE ARROWS ON THE SIDE OF THE FAN FOR DIRECTION OF SPIN AND FLOW OF AIR

as for the cardboard no it should be fine, the cardboard i used was the dual layered corrugated stuff which you could bend into a perfect line so it acts as an airgap between top and bottom layers prob 1-2mm thick.

the cardboard only acts as a duct for the air to travel so by the time the air is being passed over the heatsinks it wont have time to heat up... Unless you got something SERIOUSLY wrong with ur xbox but yeah mate that should be ok!

Thank u for u help mate

very much appreciate it

but one more question
this pic, setting 2 fans inside on right side will even more increase its efficiency isnt it?
should i put an extra fan in there?? like this
IPB Image

the XCM powerfull fans, are they any good?? should i buy them?
if i make the stock fans 12V will it make them as powerfull as xcm?
or does the xcm take too much electriclty and which damages the 360?
plz help me with this one too

any help please?

I find that the one fan does the trick... You see you have got to remember, the air is directed from the front fan and the airflow continues in motion towards the back of the case, If you put any fans blowing sideways into this ducting system you will slow this airflow down. Think of a jet engine sucking air in and blowing out then a sidewind entering the side of the engine disrupting the flow..

Maybe that is a bit OTT for an explanation but its the best i got right now that describes the way i see it.

The fan i fitted was 70mm and running at 12v 3800rpm produces around 40cfm which for this application is more than fine. Check this out

http://cgi.ebay.com/...031010002r14483

The XCM Cooler is a fan which dosent have the ducting system.
The back fans are fine with more volts unless you want cool looking LEDs
If you get this system up and running on a shoestring budget you will find it more satisfying.

If i was gonna add any more fans to this system it would be EXTERNAL fans blowing In on the opposite side to the HD.. See i dont think it is a good idea to have the 360 standing up because the low level heat from the CPU is rising up to the GPU and the pull of the heatsinks wont do a pre-rrod system any good.

Hope this helps!

QUOTE(balenski79 @ Nov 5 2008, 06:10 PM)

I find that the one fan does the trick... You see you have got to remember, the air is directed from the front fan and the airflow continues in motion towards the back of the case, If you put any fans blowing sideways into this ducting system you will slow this airflow down. Think of a jet engine sucking air in and blowing out then a sidewind entering the side of the engine disrupting the flow..

Maybe that is a bit OTT for an explanation but its the best i got right now that describes the way i see it.

The fan i fitted was 70mm and running at 12v 3800rpm produces around 40cfm which for this application is more than fine. Check this out

http://cgi.ebay.com/...031010002r14483

The XCM Cooler is a fan which dosent have the ducting system.
The back fans are fine with more volts unless you want cool looking LEDs
If you get this system up and running on a shoestring budget you will find it more satisfying.

If i was gonna add any more fans to this system it would be EXTERNAL fans blowing In on the opposite side to the HD.. See i dont think it is a good idea to have the 360 standing up because the low level heat from the CPU is rising up to the GPU and the pull of the heatsinks wont do a pre-rrod system any good.

Hope this helps!

thank u mate, thankz alot
Today i went to a local shop and i saw the exact same fan there!
But there are 3 wires in that!

that confused me!
can u tell me what are those three wires
As the tutorial u posted the fans only have 2 wires!
Can u tell me the color code of those three wires.... plz help me where those 3 wires go?

i think i got it

The Red/Black/Blue wire i have

in that the Red is Live Black is ground and blue is for fans' speed control
So i would just leave it alone and connect those two with it!

Is that how it works?

red is live
black is ground
blue is fan speed

if you look at the rf module you have 3 black screws holding it on...

make a ring in the black wire and solder it so it is a solid ring that can't come apart then attach it to the top left screw that fastens the rf module on. that will give you a good ground point!

No probs!

QUOTE(siskue2005 @ Nov 4 2008, 01:25 AM)

Hi great modding stuff there, keep it up

but i am a bit confused , where does the AMD fan draw air from??
Should i make a round hole in the 360 outer case?? so that the fan gets more air from outside?(i saw a similar photo of a 360 in Llamma's site)

is the AMD fan drawing air inwards or pushing it outwards???

I am bit confused

And also one thing, the cardboard u have kept over the GPU heatsink, will that burn or catch fire if the heat sink heats up?

plz help me!

thankz

The air intake fan witha hole in the case will be a lot better than the XCM solution it sucks much more fresh air in, I got temp probes in my 360 and the same setup and it reduces core temps by around 9-11°C which is pretty good since I already got the 12V mod in there etc, so the decrease on stock systems will be even higher...

*EDIT*
And just to clear that up there is no way in hell that the heatsinks get hot enough to burn something, 90°C is pretty much the maximum you have to expect, this is the reason why overheating the 360 wont melt the solder as well...

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Nov 6 2008, 04:02 AM)

The air intake fan witha hole in the case will be a lot better than the XCM solution it sucks much more fresh air in, I got temp probes in my 360 and the same setup and it reduces core temps by around 9-11°C which is pretty good since I already got the 12V mod in there etc, so the decrease on stock systems will be even higher...

*EDIT*
And just to clear that up there is no way in hell that the heatsinks get hot enough to burn something, 90°C is pretty much the maximum you have to expect, this is the reason why overheating the 360 wont melt the solder as well...

thank u very much for ur valuable comments

i just repaired my 360 with the method u posted together with LLAMA's type drilling the board and putting the screws from below!..... i also made the credit card piece a longer strips and set in all around the chip (except in GPU's upper side)...... and i am going to make the fans 12V and attaching shrouds and AMD fan with it!

thank you all , thank u very much

Just tried your method. Works like a charm the first time. No retightening. What I did was use spring washers on the bottom of the board. And just tightened until they were flat. Hope this holds up. I also took a dremel and cut a rectangular hole into the side of my case opposite the hd. I was looking and the air has to pass throught the holes in the plastic case, then through tiny holes in the metal case. Well I removed the metal and now I can feel the air being sucked in!!! By the way I had 3 red rings with error code 0020

Deutsch / German :
Ich habe die Anleitung soeben ins Deutsche übersetzt, ein paar Bilder sind zwar noch mit englischen Titeln aber das ist sowieso im Text weiter erläutert oder selbsterklärend...
Der Inhalt ist genau der selbe allerdings wurden manche Passagen leicht geupdatet...
Hier ist der Link -> http://xbox-experts....php?n=xclampeng

English :
I have just finished translating my tutorial to German a few pictures do still contain english strings but it is explained in the text anyway...
The content is the same but some stuff has been simplified...
Here is the link -> http://xbox-experts....php?n=xclampeng

And some updates on Hybrid:
I have also started writing the tutorial for Hybrid on the website like some of you might have noticed already, as it is in the list

I just ordered some more ROD 360s from Ebay because I need some additional pictures for the tutorial in more detail and if I find time I might even make a video of it but since I got exams coming next week I cant promise anything...
The hosting of the video might also be a problem because of the bandwidth, just the website itself is already causing like 80GB traffic a month and I only pay for 400GB traffic a month so we will have to solve this issue first as well, might create some mirrors and use my homeserver to save some...

A video might rather be added later I dont want everybody to wait

Hybrid make a new console.+heatsink Cu.
Not bent processor x/clamp mod.
Putty epoxid mix thermal paste no AC/DC proces reversible hot air.

QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Nov 9 2008, 08:21 PM)

Hybrid make a new console.+heatsink Cu.
Not bent processor x/clamp mod.
Putty epoxid mix thermal paste no AC/DC proces reversible hot air.

Ahm, no nothing like that

Just wanted to release a little update for hybrid:
We are nearly finished none of the 360s have crapped out yet still and the hosting question was solved (hopefully).
The Ebay 360s have arrived but I couldnt take my hands on any to take the pictures yet because I was quite busy with the video/still am.
Humboldt is assisting me though and will take the pics for the "advanced" version of the fix and support me with the english version of the tutorial.
The video is not gonna be like some homemade stuff filming me how I apply the fix to a 360 it is a 3D animation that will explain our concept and how it works and will be more comprehensible since you can see stuff that is not visible usually...
Am nearly done with the 3D stuff like the advanced version rendering is 99% done have to render the part for the "regular"/homemade version of the fix now but it is like 80% done as well only have to prepare the actual animation....
We are aiming to get all the stuff done until the weekend around the 8th of December but since there is still so much that has to be done we cannot promise anything.
M2X is quite busy atm and cant do nothing since he got his main IT exams at university and I wont have much time in the next weeks either since I will have exams as well, might get quite close but we will try our best.

Last but not least I would like to thank all the people who sent us emails and PMs you have been a great motivation to us in the last couple of months

Cheers,
TEAM Hybrid

QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Nov 17 2008, 07:27 PM)

Humboldt is assisting me though and will take the pics for the "advanced" version of the fix and support me with the english version of the tutorial.

Yeah I should be able to take pics soon.....The "prototypes" are coming in the mail next week for me to work with. I have also come up with a "homemade" version of the advanced hybrid that looks promising as well.

Didn't put on the credit card yet because I am still waiting on some as5, also I just used one plastic washer on top and one spring washer on the bottom because the only plastic washers I could get are to thick and are equal to two of the metal washers so I ended up ditching the normal metal washers. I had some spare thermal paste left on the heatsink from when I temporarily fixed it with some zalman paste. (for future reference xbox's don't like zalman paste becasue it was a pain in the ass to get the right amount on my own 360, I was only trying to put it on and prevent the rrod and it got hotter than ever, it was truly a pain to get the right amount, at least my 360 has never had a problem though) This was my friends and ironically it rrod'd while we were flashing the drive (had taken off the warranty only 20 minutes prior) So I bought all the stuff and ended up just screwing some 16mm through until it tore some holes in the gpu heatsink and it also threaded it, I did this before I installed it. After that I just plugged it in and to my surprise, no overheating or nothing prior it booted. The fans got really fast as I am still waiting on arctic silver but now I will have one happy friend with a fixed and flashed xbox 360:) Thanks for the great guide!

QUOTE(YoungGeekGuy @ Nov 18 2008, 04:59 AM)

Didn't put on the credit card yet because I am still waiting on some as5, also I just used one plastic washer on top and one spring washer on the bottom because the only plastic washers I could get are to thick and are equal to two of the metal washers so I ended up ditching the normal metal washers. I had some spare thermal paste left on the heatsink from when I temporarily fixed it with some zalman paste. (for future reference xbox's don't like zalman paste becasue it was a pain in the ass to get the right amount on my own 360, I was only trying to put it on and prevent the rrod and it got hotter than ever, it was truly a pain to get the right amount, at least my 360 has never had a problem though) This was my friends and ironically it rrod'd while we were flashing the drive (had taken off the warranty only 20 minutes prior) So I bought all the stuff and ended up just screwing some 16mm through until it tore some holes in the gpu heatsink and it also threaded it, I did this before I installed it. After that I just plugged it in and to my surprise, no overheating or nothing prior it booted. The fans got really fast as I am still waiting on arctic silver but now I will have one happy friend with a fixed and flashed xbox 360:) Thanks for the great guide!

Ye of course it did thats what it is supposed to be doing

Overheating only makes the problems worse so dont waste your time with it.
You will have to replace the compound for sure though if the fans are spinning that fast...

Just carried out this fix and unfortunatly still getting 3 rrod. Now my question is how important are the rubber/nylon washers? I currenly have used bits of cloth as a substitute due to my inability to find appropriate washers. Could this be my problem? only having the one 1 mm thick metal washer may not be leveling the mobo properly.

Let me know what I could use a substitute or would just 1 metal 1 mm thick washers do the trick? I assumed the nylon washers were to prevent damage but I could be very wrong.

I just finished the x clamp mod on my box about an hour ago. Had my first RROD on the 26th. I had some arctic silver laying around from some previous computer builds, but I improvised a bit on the hardware useing a 5mm lock washer and the #10 nylon washer on the top ( between the heat sink and gpu/cpu ) and used a nylon and bent (flex) washer on the bottom to ensure tension on both sides of the MB. I found that the split/lock washer and nylon together seemed to come the closest to the actual height of the GPU/CPU. I tightened until i could see no more light between the top of the GPU/CPU and then gave it another full turn. Baked and then cooled down.

I did not use the CC pieces as mentioned in the procedure. This was a personal choice. I may consider useing them if i start to see problems over the course of the next few weeks. after i actually rework the connection with a hot air pencil.

Seems to work fine so far. I will however be looking into some sort of re-reouting air flow to the GPU heat sink, this thing is seriously under rated for the GPU, considering its physical proximity to the drive.

Has anyone considered moving to a fully copper core or even reworking the GPU HS to make contact with the CPU HS to try to gain some thermal transfer?

Another idea may be a shim like some of us may remember using with the 32bit AMD athalon processors. this would serve both the intended purpose of the CC bits and maybe help more efficiently disipate the heat a little better. of course with all the res packs in the way on the top side of the CPU/GPU it may prove a little difficult but i may give it a try.

anyhow thanks for the help

Hello guys.

Just a little and hopefully last update on Hybrid again.
The animation video is 99.9999% done only needs another last edit for the credits because I spelled a name wrong, thanks to Humboldt we also got some nice background music

The tutorial was also "finished" yesterday only requires some more tweaking as well, Humboldt will have to read all over my shit again and correct grammar and spelling mistakes to make it easier to understand and in the mean time I will be working on the German translation of the fix which will however not delay the release for the English one...

Since we still have not finished the parts for the "advanced" version this will not be included in the release very likely.
As soon as we have the parts in stock we will start some sort of beta program since we couldnt test it effectively yet but it basically works the same way as the "homemade" version so we are not expecting any problems...
I would also like to point out that the "advanced" version is not going to be a rip off ROD kit or anything we are selling it at the lowest price possible for us and the community because if a single person would order the parts that are necessary for it himself the costs would be at about 50$, we are going to get the parts in bulk and sell them for 10-12$ depending on how cheap we can get it we are still looking for the best deal...
The start for this beta will likely be in January.

The release of the homemade version will either be this weekend on the 6th of Dec if we should surprisingly make it until then otherwise one week later on the 13th of Dec.

Cheers,
Wilhelm and the Hybrid crew...

Hello everyone.

Fascinating stuff, I've spent hours reading all about these fixes. Well done to you people! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I have one question tho. Would it be possible to use balsa wood instead of the credit card strips, and also balsa wood sheet underneath the motherboard? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) you can get it in various thicknesses, hard and soft, and it's easy to sand and work with.. I'm about to do my first xbox mod using Wilhelm's fix...

Cheers

This post has been edited by norite: Apr 10 2009, 02:37 PM

that's interesting.

simulation rachat de credit

This post has been edited by katrinav: Jun 15 2009, 07:10 PM

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Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat => Topic started by: Wilhelm_I on August 01, 2008, 07:37:00 AM