Post by: Wilhelm_I on May 24, 2008, 05:27:00 AM
I heatgun all the boards before I replace the X-Clamps and played around with different isolations(rockwool, aluminium foil etc.)
This one was the cheapest and best in my opinion though because I didnt have to clean the mainboard after I was done like with the rockwool and it is much better to handle..
Well what you need:
- Completely disassembled xbox 360 mainboard(always remove the heatsinks or you can trash the board after you reflowed the solder...)
- A heatgun obviously
- Some aluminium foil
- tape
- Some thick plastic foil(like on the picture, the thicker the better)
The pictures were resized so just click one to see the high def version of it...
Well lets start...
This is the foil I used
Then cut out a hole for the CPU etc
So that it looks like that
Then fix it with the tape and make sure you close everything so that no air can come through...
Same procedure for the other side, cut and fix with tape
Use some tape to fix the rest on the backside, dont put any foil over the holes of the screws though cause it will melt then
Then cover everything with aluminium foil make sure that there are no holes again
Now you are done. Get your heatgun and use it on the lowest step to warm it up for a minute. Never keep it at the same spot, move it over the whole area in circles. Then switch to the next step (thats a 500°C for me) and heatgun it for another 3 minutes.
The solder get a golden/yellowish glance when it reflowed, then you are done. Also make sure that you never move the board or accidently hit the table while you are reflowing it because this might fuck it up completely...
Then let it cool down for at least 45 minutes and after that carefully remove the aluminium foil and the rest of the isolation. You will see that the plastic melted but the most important components are still covered(like the big caps). If you still got the time turn the mainboard around and heatgun it from the other side as well thats what I always do but the first time should have been enough already. On the backside you wont have to isolate anything as there isnt anything that melts at low temps just watch out for the plastic parts(you shouldnt be anywhere near them while heatgunning though because it is not the area that you want to reflow...)
Now you are done, congrats!
This is a little example of what happens if you dont isolate it properly...
On the right side I only used aluminium foil, the big caps that the arrays point at melted at the bottom and the top is burned and raised a bit. If I wouldnt have stopped when they started smoking I bet they would have blown up...
I hope the tutorial helped you if you have anymore questions though just post a reply or send me a PM...
It would be nice if a moderator could move it to the Hardware Chat forum because I was to retarded to notice that I was in Xbox360 Case / Hardware Modding.
Thank You
Post by: redwolf on May 24, 2008, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: meduquaine1 on May 25, 2008, 10:37:00 AM
Post by: redhound12 on May 25, 2008, 11:18:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on May 25, 2008, 11:33:00 AM
QUOTE(meduquaine1 @ May 25 2008, 07:13 PM) 
Should you foil anything while just heating the bottom of the board?
Nope you dont have to isolate anything then because there arent any big caps but watch out for the buttons and the connectors because they might melt as well if they get too hot. So never direct the heatgun at them
Post by: bonzof.pl on May 25, 2008, 01:15:00 PM
brazil?
Post by: grim_d on May 25, 2008, 01:24:00 PM
If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.
This post has been edited by grim_d: May 25 2008, 08:24 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on May 25, 2008, 06:32:00 PM
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 25 2008, 10:00 PM)
i hope you arent heatgunning for customers before replacing the x-clamps, cause if you are you have no idea if you acctually fixed the problem with the x-clamp replacement.
If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.
Well I started fixing them like a 10 months ago for friends and family and lately I am also doing it for customers, I work in one of these modding shops.
I do it like that, when I get one I first check the errorcode etc so that I dont waste time on unnecessary things.
If it is actually GPU related I remove the X-Clamps of the GPU+ the screws etc so that I only have the plain heatsink
Then I start the 360 with the heatsink on, most still ROD then. Then I put some more pressure on the heatsink and try to boot it again if it boots I know it is one of the solder joints. Then I heatgun it properly from both sides like described here and apply the X-Clamp replacement afterwards. So far none of the 360s that I fixed like that have RODd again, I know that it is not such a long time range but this method has worked way better than the X-Clamp replacement did. Only with the X-Clamp replacement most 360s RODd again after 3weeks-5 months
Post by: Shareef187 on May 26, 2008, 03:50:00 PM
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 25 2008, 09:00 PM)
i hope you arent heatgunning for customers before replacing the x-clamps, cause if you are you have no idea if you acctually fixed the problem with the x-clamp replacement.
If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.
Honestly, doing the X-clamp replacement alone rarely was enough for me. I was having many units come back to me within 1 month's time after doing the X-clamp replacement alone (RBJtech MK3 method followed to a T). I did, I've since begun implementing usage of a heatgun as standard, and not only do the units always work immediately upon reassembly (before I would often have to make several adjustments, or bake attempts before the ROD would disappear), I have not had 1 single unit return. Period.
Also, I used to do the whole foil/isolation bit, but I have since stopped, and find it completely unnecessary as long as I focus using the heat gun on the areas that do not require it and/or will melt, and I have not had any problems, nor even the slightest signs of them being affected. Not only does it save me time, but I had also had one instance were 2 caps actually stuck to the foil, and detached from the motherboard upon the removal of the foil... but, admittedly, for your average individual, it probably is recommended that they do use the foil.
Great tut!
QUOTE(Shareef187 @ May 26 2008, 11:19 PM)
Honestly, doing the X-clamp replacement alone rarely was enough for me. I was having many units come back to me within 1 month's time after doing the X-clamp replacement alone (RBJtech MK3 method followed to a T).
I forgot to mention that I did, however, fix a couple units where the X-clamp replacement alone WAS enough, so that goes to show that it definitely wasn't my implementation of the technique that was incorrect on the other's where it was not sufficient.
I just have yet to find a case where careful implementation of a heat gun, in addition to the X-clamp replacement, would have an adverse effect from just using the X-clamp replacement alone, therefore I think it is perfectly viable to use it as part of a standard procedure. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, though.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on May 31, 2008, 05:27:00 AM
It would be nice if a moderator could update the links of the pictures in my first post, I am going to post them here in the order like above with the new links...
Thanks in advance
Post by: gamesfreak on June 01, 2008, 04:01:00 AM
2) What distance do you keep your heatgun from the mobo.
3) Do you focus on any one particular area at all or is it uniform motion across all uncovered parts in the pics.
4) Can you upload a pic of the th yellow glance on the solder please. I dont want to underdo or overdo the process.
Post by: NEWBIEMUPPET on June 01, 2008, 01:05:00 PM
really, I'm lucky not to be blinded 
Guess I was to far away the whole board was cooking, but the solder not soft though. Pay particualr attention to masking off. I think the distance I had about 3 to 4 inches away was to far to.Questin, what tape did you use to fix it down.
WEAR Goggles/Safety Glasses
back to ebay for another kit
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 01, 2008, 03:08:00 PM
The trick is to close all holes so that no air can go through especially with the aluminum foil
The melted plastic foil is quite easy to get off it doesnt glue itself to the components or so(at least not the one I used)
You heatgun it from like 5-7 cm in circles make sure that you never keep it at the same spot because then you will burn it you want to gradually heat it up to its melting point...
@ NEWBIEPUPPET
Did you even isolate it at all?
If you would have done it like me there wouldnt have been the danger that the caps blow up in your face the foils would hold it back if it even got hot enough
@ gamesfreak
Here is a picture of what it looks like kind of but the guy who heatgunned this mainboard overdid it.
However this is kind of the color that the solder should have when you got to stop immediately...
Post by: RYU81 on June 01, 2008, 04:31:00 PM
Post by: HackerSupreme on June 01, 2008, 04:43:00 PM
Is it possible to just use like a couple of layers of aluminum paper?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 01, 2008, 11:52:00 PM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 2 2008, 01:19 AM)
Ya where did you find the plastic foil?
Is it possible to just use like a couple of layers of aluminum paper?
You need at least one layer of something else otherwise you will cook the caps because aluminium conducts the heat very well...
the aluminium is there as a shield against the air, the seconds layer is the real isolation...
I guess I took my plastic foil out of the package that my 360 same with but I am not too sure anymore
Try using a few layers of paper maybe just as a test but be aware that it might go on fire, so make sure you close all holes with the aluminum foil
Here are some examples of what conducts heat very well and what doesnt...
http://en.wikipedia....al_conductivity
Post by: NEWBIEMUPPET on June 02, 2008, 04:04:00 AM
Is still a good tutorial though. But I think I will be buying a reflow station off fleabay
Post by: Shareef187 on June 02, 2008, 08:06:00 AM
QUOTE(NEWBIEMUPPET @ Jun 2 2008, 11:40 AM)
Hi. I performed as per your tutorial, must admit for first board. You right the foil did provide some energy dissipating effect however it was still ripped open. I believe it was fully enclosed, and just wanted to make people aware that there is this potential to have accident and just to be careful. Better safe than sorry.
Is still a good tutorial though. But I think I will be buying a reflow station off fleabay
Don't reflow stations cost thousands of $'s?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 02, 2008, 08:11:00 AM
QUOTE(Shareef187 @ Jun 2 2008, 04:42 PM)
Don't reflow stations cost thousands of $'s?
Rather hundreds you can get some for around 300(~500$) already
Post by: Shareef187 on June 02, 2008, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: NEWBIEMUPPET on June 03, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 03, 2008, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 03, 2008, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 03, 2008, 10:04:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 04, 2008, 07:51:00 AM
Post by: sp1kez on June 08, 2008, 11:32:00 PM
erros are
0110
0102
0022
maybe im not heat gunning them enough
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 08, 2008, 11:51:00 PM
QUOTE(sp1kez @ Jun 9 2008, 08:08 AM)
Have tried 3 xboxes with clamp fix and heatgunned and still not working
erros are
0110
0102
0022
maybe im not heat gunning them enough
Well I guess you focused on the wrong components...
0110 is a cold solder joint under one of the RAM bricks, so put each one of them under pressure while booting the 360 until the ROD disappears. Once youve located the one that is broken heatgun it...
0102 is a problem with the digital backbone so focus on GPU, CPU and RAM, hewatgun from both sides
0022 is similar to E74(broken ana-chip connection) with the addition that the GPU also has a bridged/cold solder joint
So heatgun the area from the GPU to the ANA-chip also from both sides
Also make sure that your heatgun gets hot enough it should at least reach a 230°C because 218°C is the melting point of the solder
Post by: tlcwobler on June 09, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
well my question on the heatgun method is I see that you used tape to tape down the plastic foil, but from the pictures I can't see if you taped the aluminum foil down as well. reason I ask is that I won't wanna tape that aluminum foil and the tape melt to the board. thanks.
Post by: sp1kez on June 09, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jun 9 2008, 02:27 AM)
Well I guess you focused on the wrong components...
0110 is a cold solder joint under one of the RAM bricks, so put each one of them under pressure while booting the 360 until the ROD disappears. Once youve located the one that is broken heatgun it...
0102 is a problem with the digital backbone so focus on GPU, CPU and RAM, hewatgun from both sides
0022 is similar to E74(broken ana-chip connection) with the addition that the GPU also has a bridged/cold solder joint
So heatgun the area from the GPU to the ANA-chip also from both sides
Also make sure that your heatgun gets hot enough it should at least reach a 230°C because 218°C is the melting point of the solder
Put pressure from the top of the motherboard or from underneath? I tried putting pressure on the 2 In front of Heatsink (GPU) and no go, should I remove the heatsink and put pressure on the 2 under there? will the xbox boot without the GPU heatsink?
EDIT- Just tried putting presure on each and it still went to RROD, Im thinking this may be another problem?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 09, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
QUOTE(sp1kez @ Jun 9 2008, 08:43 PM)
Put pressure from the top of the motherboard or from underneath? I tried putting pressure on the 2 In front of Heatsink (GPU) and no go, should I remove the heatsink and put pressure on the 2 under there? will the xbox boot without the GPU heatsink?
EDIT- Just tried putting presure on each and it still went to RROD, Im thinking this may be another problem?
Put a washer on both of them and put the heatsink back on this will take them under pressure, without a heatsink the GPU will overheat after 2 seconds
It will most likely be these two then
Post by: darkovo on June 13, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
Oh well, back to the drawing board for me!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 14, 2008, 01:15:00 AM
QUOTE(darkovo @ Jun 14 2008, 12:47 AM)
I just had a go and popped one of the big caps! I only had grease proof paper so thought i'd try that, double-folded/layered it and double-layered the foil also used insulation tape everywhere, but after 3 or so minutes 1 went bang so had to throw it out
Oh well, back to the drawing board for me!
Sorry about that mate looks like the plastic foil is the only thing that works then.
If you want to replace the caps I can desolder them from a fucked up mainboard and sent them to you.
Just send me a PM
Post by: darkovo on June 14, 2008, 04:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jun 14 2008, 08:51 AM) 
Sorry about that mate looks like the plastic foil is the only thing that works then.
If you want to replace the caps I can desolder them from a fucked up mainboard and sent them to you.
Just send me a PM
No worries only passing on my info, I'm going to use this board for practice etc, I'll use some different material for covering the caps, I've still got 2 other RRoD boards that need this doing to them so haven't given up yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Post by: HackerSupreme on June 14, 2008, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: HeLLSaTaN on June 15, 2008, 12:12:00 AM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 14 2008, 04:49 PM)
What about Wax Paper inbetween the layers of aluminum foil?
lol i was just gonna ask same question. gonna ask can I use wax paper that my mommy uses when making cookies? and then aluminum foil?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 15, 2008, 02:43:00 AM
It is nice that you want to experiment with other isolators but keep in mind that you might blow capacitors if it doesnt work....
*EDIT*
Mixing the layers might actually be a good idea as long as the different layers of aluminum foil are isolated form each other.
Do it on your own risk though, just try heatgunning for like 30 seconds then stop and check the capacitors if the top of them only slightly raised your isolation isnt working properly.
This post has been edited by Wilhelm_I: Jun 15 2008, 09:45 AM
Post by: beetlemaniac on June 17, 2008, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: HackerSupreme on June 17, 2008, 10:01:00 PM
I might just use a couple of layers.
Aluminum foil, wax paper or parchment paper, aluminum paper, other shit, aluminum foil...IDK...I still don't have to heatgun any consoles but I might in the future.
This post has been edited by HackerSupreme: Jun 18 2008, 05:03 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 18, 2008, 12:04:00 AM
I dont know where you can really get this stuff just check all the garbage you got.
As I said you could also use other isolators like rock/glass wool you could cheaply get a whole packet at a DIY store.
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 18, 2008, 06:19:00 AM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 18 2008, 12:37 AM)
Someone should post a tut on where the hell to find plastic foil...
I might just use a couple of layers.
Aluminum foil, wax paper or parchment paper, aluminum paper, other shit, aluminum foil...IDK...I still don't have to heatgun any consoles but I might in the future.
go to a hardware store and buy their called "drop sheets" its usually for covering stuff up while painting, or even using it to cover your windows from the inside to stop the draft people here in north america use it.
and there is different grade stuff like heavy, medium or light. When i did this i got the heavy stuff so it was a bit thicker and it costed like $2.
Post by: beetlemaniac on June 19, 2008, 09:23:00 AM
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 19, 2008, 10:46:00 AM
If you can hear it, id say no, go get some drop sheets from an hardware store look at my post from above
Post by: beetlemaniac on June 19, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
Post by: bosnia_9 on June 20, 2008, 06:03:00 AM
just get 2 meters and your good to go, have some spare
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 24, 2008, 03:13:00 AM
It is the foil that is shipped with the XCM cases.
I kind of found a treasure when I wanted to bin this box
So if you really want to heatgun your 360 and intend to get a replacement case get an XCM one, the others dont have it like the GHOST cases..
Or just go to a local hardware store like bosnia said
Post by: Squeakk on June 27, 2008, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 27, 2008, 06:18:00 PM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jun 28 2008, 02:41 AM)
Thank you so much, got a heat gun today, heat gunned gpu, cpu, and rams. did it for like 3 minutes then herd popping sounds, my friend and I were like someone making pop corn? I let it sit for about an hour then re did x-clamps fix worked perfect. I thank you, know I am gonna move onto modding my elite with lights and more fans. I even have a temp guage (just used talismoon put the thermometer into heatsink, hit over 110 degrees F)
Am glad it worked for you
Check the big caps make sure they havent blown or something.
Which foil did you use?
Was it a really thick foil with these air reservoirs if so ignore the first sentence about the caps...
If the caps are really blown you will have to replace them but since the 360 is working I dont think they are really fucked up
Post by: Squeakk on June 27, 2008, 06:57:00 PM
I used 2mm drop sheets used for painting (cover floors and furniture so paint doesn't go on it)
Taped down with electrical tape, then covered up with aluminum foil. Heated on 1st setting for a minute then 2nd setting for about 3 minutes then I herd a light popping sound, stopped tore open foil and drop sheets and then let it sit for about an hour.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 28, 2008, 01:19:00 AM
I figured something else out the hard way yesterday.
Make sure that the aluminum foil isnt too close to the chips/under the chips because as soon as the solder reflowed it will lift the RAM chip up and you are fucked.
So make sure the isolation is always like 1cm away from the chip then it will be alright.
Could kick myself in the arse for that though,
Ah yeah and something else dont heatgun the board for longer than 5 minutes or the isolation wont work properly anymore.
I heatgunned this one for like 7 minutes cause the sucked wouldnt reflow properly and in minute 7 the plastic went on fire.
The caps are okay though and the board is working besides the fact that it is showing 0020 because of the shorted out RAM.
Does anyone have an idea how to get this back on properly^^
Post by: 1ic1 on June 29, 2008, 11:45:00 PM
thanx
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 30, 2008, 01:36:00 AM
QUOTE(1ic1 @ Jun 30 2008, 08:21 AM)
can you plz reupload the pictures?
thanx
I only got like 1GB traffic on this server so at the end of the month they suspend it...
I posted the pictures a bit below from another host but the moderators wouldnt replace mine even though I reported it....
So just scroll down...
Post by: 1ic1 on June 30, 2008, 02:10:00 AM
Post by: hueyduey02 on June 30, 2008, 03:04:00 AM
QUOTE(1ic1 @ Jun 30 2008, 12:46 AM) 
can someone please post a video on here or youtube im to scared to f*ck up my 360
think of it this way. your xbox is already fucked up. you can give M$ about $100 - $120, that's if you haven't voided the warranty yet.
Or spend about $15 for tools and xclamp hardware. Not including the fact that you'll have to pickup a heatgun, considering the smart thing to do is return it afterwards.
Or do nothing and still have a broken xbox.
as for videos, it's hard to say because the temperature of each heatgun varies. Just take wilhelm's word for it. Make sure you read this entire thread as there's a lot to learn about how to do it right and wrong.
Question:
Based of the secondary codes, is it necessary to heat up the cpu / gpu / and scaler chip? For instance I looked up my code and found out it's the connection between the gpu and the scaler chip, so is it necessary to heat up the entire board?
Reason is that there's a lot more capacitors near the cpu and I'd like to keep the heat away from that area if possible. Just curious if you treat all E74s and RROD the same and do the entire area, or if based by the secondary code you only heat up a particular area which is causing the error.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on June 30, 2008, 09:08:00 AM
QUOTE(hueyduey02 @ Jun 30 2008, 11:40 AM)
Based of the secondary codes, is it necessary to heat up the cpu / gpu / and scaler chip? For instance I looked up my code and found out it's the connection between the gpu and the scaler chip, so is it necessary to heat up the entire board?
Reason is that there's a lot more capacitors near the cpu and I'd like to keep the heat away from that area if possible. Just curious if you treat all E74s and RROD the same and do the entire area, or if based by the secondary code you only heat up a particular area which is causing the error.
The FAQ isnt always right so which error code are you talking about?
I always only concentrate on the problem area for the E74 you dont have to go anywhere near the CPU since the problem is somewhere at the lower part of the GPU down to the ANA-chip.
Heating up the entire area is a good go to prevent future errors but it isnt really necessary to waste the heat and time on it if you know whats the problem...
Post by: josiah1992 on June 30, 2008, 03:45:00 PM
i just have one question.
in one of the steps, you said to cut holes ou in the insulation for the chips,
but in the pictures the insulation doesnt cover the part of the board where th chips are.
so should the insualtion be convering the whole board and have holes in so you can only see the chips,
or do i just need to cover the board around the chips like in the pictures?
hope that made sense lol.
Post by: xtc2006 on July 01, 2008, 09:11:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jun 30 2008, 04:44 PM)
The FAQ isnt always right so which error code are you talking about?
I always only concentrate on the problem area for the E74 you dont have to go anywhere near the CPU since the problem is somewhere at the lower part of the GPU down to the ANA-chip.
Heating up the entire area is a good go to prevent future errors but it isnt really necessary to waste the heat and time on it if you know whats the problem...
hey Wilhelm please post all the error codes and their meaning if you can it would be a great help.
Post by: josiah1992 on July 01, 2008, 09:21:00 AM
QUOTE(xtc2006 @ Jul 1 2008, 04:47 PM)
hey Wilhelm please post all the error codes and their meaning if you can it would be a great help.
all error codes and meaning can be found in this topic:
xbox 360 error codes and meanings
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 01, 2008, 10:01:00 AM
QUOTE(josiah1992 @ Jul 1 2008, 11:57 AM)
Lmao this thread is starting to become priceless! Love the responses people are giving
Post by: josiah1992 on July 01, 2008, 12:46:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 1 2008, 05:37 PM)
Lmao this thread is starting to become priceless! Love the responses people are giving
what is wrong with my response? i was only trying to help the guy. oh and could someone answer my question that i asked a bit further up in the post? thanks in advance
Post by: Squeakk on July 01, 2008, 12:56:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 01, 2008, 04:56:00 PM
QUOTE(josiah1992 @ Jul 1 2008, 12:21 AM)
hey wilhelm its me agin lol.
i just have one question.
in one of the steps, you said to cut holes ou in the insulation for the chips,
but in the pictures the insulation doesnt cover the part of the board where th chips are.
so should the insualtion be convering the whole board and have holes in so you can only see the chips,
or do i just need to cover the board around the chips like in the pictures?
hope that made sense lol.
LOL
This is classic dude!
The guy already replied to your post and make sure you preview your post everytime and read through it man.
I am not going to make an own error code guide, the one on here is pretty good already they just need to update a couple of entries since they are kind of not up to date anymore like 0020 0022 0013 etc
Post by: josiah1992 on July 01, 2008, 05:19:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 2 2008, 12:32 AM)
LOL
This is classic dude!
The guy already replied to your post and make sure you preview your post everytime and read through it man.
I am not going to make an own error code guide, the one on here is pretty good already they just need to update a couple of entries since they are kind of not up to date anymore like 0020 0022 0013 etc
sorry man, it was quite late when i posted that. i will preview and read through all my posts in the future.
Post by: Squeakk on July 03, 2008, 11:58:00 PM
Post by: Squeakk on July 04, 2008, 12:56:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 04, 2008, 04:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jul 4 2008, 09:32 AM)
Just plugged everything back in, and the 360 works perfectly. This is the only method that I've found which actually 100% works
Nice to hear that, I am gonna get Unreal Tournament on Monday as well, too bad it wasnt released here yet
Post by: josiah1992 on July 04, 2008, 05:43:00 AM
Post by: RedFux on July 04, 2008, 06:13:00 AM
Thanks anyway.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 04, 2008, 07:45:00 AM
QUOTE(RedFux @ Jul 4 2008, 02:49 PM)
Wilhelm, Several months ago I have already use this method though I only using hair dryer (full speed for about 10-13min) Upperside (GPU & CPU chips) and downside of the mobo (ram chips). It works for about 1 week but then its RROD again. Do you still got an RROD after doing the heating?? If yes how many times?
Thanks anyway.
So far none of the RODs returned and I fixed quite a couple like that already.
Just make sure that you dont tighten the screws too much and avoid bending the mainboard then it will most likely last forever...
A hairdryer cant fix it permanently as it only heats it up to 80-90°C, to reflow the solder you need >218°C.
You also have to watch the time with the heatgun, at first preheat it for 1 minute on the lowest step and then heatgun it for 4 minutes on the 2nd step not less and not longer since it will either not reflow properly or if you do it too long(>4 minutes) the isolation will start smoking.
@josiah1992:
Am glad it worked for you, congrats.
Post by: Squeakk on July 04, 2008, 10:52:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 05, 2008, 04:08:00 AM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jul 5 2008, 07:28 AM)
Unreal Tournament 3 didn't come out yet... but leaked few weeks ago.
It is pretty stupid to admit playing a game that hasnt been released yet since you most likely didnt buy it and got it from somewhere else
This is piracy and wont be tolerated on xbox-scene so you might get your account banned
Post by: hueyduey02 on July 05, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Here's a few tips from my experience that might help out.
1. A wagner heatgun goes for about $25 at your local hardware store, and you'll find them in the paint section.
2. Anti-static bags work well as isolation against heat... The plastic only melted on the reverse side where the heat was applied, everywhere else the plastic was still intact, and didn't melt or shrink.
3. Electrical tape is your friend. Make sure to use it to mask off the isolation layer and the foil layer, and you can use it on top of the foil layer and it won't damage your board when it melts.
4. I didn't heatgun my board exactly how long to wilhelm's estimated time, and again only time will tell if my job holds up, but I noticed that a good guestimation of when you should stop, is when you start smelling the board start cooking, and when the electrical tape starts to melt a little. For me this happened around the 2 minute mark after the 1 minute warm up.
5. My heatgun was about 2 fists distance from the board itself while I was heating it.
6. Using a IR thermometer the board cooled off in a period of 10 minutes, I gave it an extra 10 to be safe before I handled the board and did the opposite side, then reassembled the xbox.
7. Tightening the heatsinks, you don't need that much pressure, use your fingertips on the screwdriver when tightening the screws and when the screwdriver wont turn anymore, you should be good. No need to torque the screws down, by holding the screwdriver in the palm of your hand.
Post by: Squeakk on July 05, 2008, 09:07:00 PM
QUOTE(hueyduey02 @ Jul 5 2008, 09:55 PM)
4. I didn't heatgun my board exactly how long to wilhelm's estimated time, and again only time will tell if my job holds up, but I noticed that a good guestimation of when you should stop, is when you start smelling the board start cooking, and when the electrical tape starts to melt a little. For me this happened around the 2 minute mark after the 1 minute warm up.
I only did about 2 minutes, but about 2 weeks later (yesterday) I got rrod again with same 0102 error. Yesterday I doubled my time heatgunned for about 1 minute on low, and 4 minutes on high. My 360 now works again, I hope that heat gunning it 2x as long it will last longer than 2 weeks. I also got my copper heatsinks which I put on 1 of the RAM (I have the newer heatsink so it covers the 3 RAMs), also put two on 2 other important chips.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 06, 2008, 05:15:00 AM
QUOTE(hueyduey02 @ Jul 6 2008, 03:55 AM)
So my xbox that was crapping out every 3 minutes now runs like a champ after heatgunning it. Only time will tell how long it holds up.
Here's a few tips from my experience that might help out.
4. I didn't heatgun my board exactly how long to wilhelm's estimated time, and again only time will tell if my job holds up, but I noticed that a good guestimation of when you should stop, is when you start smelling the board start cooking, and when the electrical tape starts to melt a little. For me this happened around the 2 minute mark after the 1 minute warm up.
5. My heatgun was about 2 fists distance from the board itself while I was heating it.
6. Using a IR thermometer the board cooled off in a period of 10 minutes, I gave it an extra 10 to be safe before I handled the board and did the opposite side, then reassembled the xbox.
7. Tightening the heatsinks, you don't need that much pressure, use your fingertips on the screwdriver when tightening the screws and when the screwdriver wont turn anymore, you should be good. No need to torque the screws down, by holding the screwdriver in the palm of your hand.
4. the board always starts smelling a bit like when it gets warm, a sign that the maximum time is reached is that something starts smoking, another good moment to stop is when you see that the solder gets a yellowish glance or the caps start shaking...
Your 2 minutes were most likely not enough to reflow the solder...
5. I always use my heatgun like 1-1.5 fists away like you can see on the picture but it wont make a big difference I think...
6. The fact that it cooled down within 10 minutes is another sign that it didnt get hot enough
7. Thats exactly the way you do it you do it snug so that the heatsinks dont move around but dont apply any more pressure than necessary because you dont want the board to start bending because this is what cause the solder balls to become loose/cold in the first place.
Post by: Squeakk on July 07, 2008, 10:11:00 PM
Post by: Squeakk on July 07, 2008, 10:33:00 PM
I just realized the 2 times which I heatgunned, I never heatgunned the bottom of the motherboard, only the top for like 4 minutes, could that be why its RROD so quickly?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 08, 2008, 03:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jul 8 2008, 07:09 AM)
edit:
I just realized the 2 times which I heatgunned, I never heatgunned the bottom of the motherboard, only the top for like 4 minutes, could that be why its RROD so quickly?
Heatgunning the bottom reduces the risk that it comes back, always do the bottom first and then the top , the top is more important..
Concentrate on the GPU->(H)ANA chip area as 0022 is a bridged solder joint under the GPU(like 0020) + a fucked up ANA chip connection(like E74 aka 1022)
Make sure you do it for 4 minutes then you can be sure it reflowed properly...
I have fixed a couple of these already and the only way to get rid of it permanently is heatgunning it properly.
One of my mates got it a while ago and I had to fix it 3 times, the last time I fixed it with a heatgun and applied the X Clamp(before just X Clamp replacement + overheating etc) replacement and it has been working well for 5 months now...
Post by: Squeakk on July 08, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 08, 2008, 05:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jul 9 2008, 02:07 AM)
So when gunning the bottom you want the mobo to stay right side up but heat from underneath (so the chips dont fall out?) I'm on break from work (drove home, about 2 minutes). Before I left a few hours ago I heated the top for a few minutes, just did it again right now. When I get home tonight in like 3 hours I'll attempt to do the bottom then the top again.
Well you just turn it around so that the bottom is the top(sounds a bit weird but I am about to go to bed so...)
make sure it is in a good position and doesnt have any space to move.
The chips wont fall off because they wont get hot enough, the main function of heatgunning the bottom is to reflow the bottom RAM and the capacitors and resistors under the main chips...
Heatgunning the top actually reflows the GPU top RAM etc..
Doing the bottom first is smarter just by thinking of it since you soften the solder of the GPU and CPU but dont reflow it and since gravity is pulling them down they might become slightly looser.
If you first reflow the bottom and then the top you wont have this problem...
It will most likely not be a big deal but it sounds logical and in the low percentage of the cases in which this might be the problem you will be on the safe side if you do it this way
Post by: Squeakk on July 08, 2008, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: fallte on July 09, 2008, 04:39:00 AM
I'n going to do the x-clamp today but my hopes are not high.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 09, 2008, 06:15:00 AM
QUOTE(fallte @ Jul 9 2008, 01:15 PM)
Mine just alternates between 0021 and 0020 and sometimes just boots up and plays fine for hours.
I'n going to do the x-clamp today but my hopes are not high.Sounds like some cracked solder joints under the GPU which are shorting out...
0020 is a short under GPU/RAM/CPU traces which lead to the GPU
And 0021 is also a short but Southbridge related, can be a bridged joint under the GPU that leads to the Sotuhbridge or a bridged joint under the Southbridge itself,...
It can also be a problem with the power of the components like a loose capacitor, missing capacitor etc so check for that as well.
Try to heatgun the CPU->GPU->RAM->Southbridge area if the X Clamp replacement doesnt help...
Post by: fallte on July 09, 2008, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 09, 2008, 11:20:00 AM
QUOTE(fallte @ Jul 9 2008, 06:05 PM)
I will. It's very hard to determine the exact spot though. And I do seem to have a damaged trace on the underside of the board that I have probably scratched while trying to remove the clamps. However id did give me an error even before I had opened the box so that seem unlikely. The problem is that lazy as I am I gave it to a repair shop that claimed they would fix it and which later turned out just heatgun it without even removing the clamps. I hope they haven't burned anything.
Ye there are a lot of retards like that on Ebay...
Could you take a picture of the broken trace?
0020 can be caused by a cut trace, so you might have to repair it...
Are you sure that the error you got before was 0020?
Post by: fallte on July 09, 2008, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 09, 2008, 06:42:00 PM
QUOTE(fallte @ Jul 9 2008, 08:41 PM)
No. 9 out of 10 times it would throw out 0021 and just occasionally 0020. I figured it was a broken solder joint that sometimes wouldn't contact at all and sometimes would short out and that's the reason for the different error codes. Anyway I really need to do the x-clamp thing first - I couldn't get the parts today since I live in the back end of nowhere. So maybe tomorrow I'll see if it gets fixed that way. I'll take the picture of the trace but it's so small I really don't think my camera is good enough to display that. And you can only see it if the light is the right way. Even if it turns out to be damaged I really don't have the skills or the tools to repair it.
0020 and 0021 are both bridged solder joints/ power issues, only the location of the issues differs(GPU/CPU/RAM and GPU/Southbridge)
0021 might also be overriding 0020 or vice-versa so you cant know for sure
where exactly is the scratch?
Post by: DarkSabre_X on July 09, 2008, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 10, 2008, 03:09:00 AM
QUOTE(DarkSabre_X @ Jul 10 2008, 07:41 AM)
is a heat gun w/ lower temps or more adjustable better than a dual temp one w/ only 750f and 1000f? found one at a local ace hardware and for 35 bucks it gives temps frm 250f to 1350 f. i know the question sounds silly cause more variable temps prob gives me more to play w/ but if i can save the $10 that is the diff i be so happy. (although even 35 is better than 279 for another 360)
I got a heatgun with 2 steps
1st step 250°C(482°F) and 2nd step 500°C(932°C)
You cant really preheat with this one is the problem thats already like a 400°C.
What you would have to do is use a hairdryer or something but the easiest solution would be to spend 10 bucks on the other...
You Americans get the 360s quite cheap though, I pay 279 for a new one... Thats a 446.40$
Post by: DarkSabre_X on July 10, 2008, 09:10:00 AM
Post by: fallte on July 10, 2008, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: moreniu on July 10, 2008, 01:30:00 PM
Removed the heatsincs, cleaned the thermal paste, did try heatgun it for a while all over the hana chip > gpu > cpu > ram, 1 min @300 c~ then around 2-3min at around, and still gives me error 0020... What did i break????? ><
Thanks!
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 10, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
QUOTE(moreniu @ Jul 10 2008, 04:06 PM)
Error 0020, was 0110 before replacing the x clamp... Did not put much pressure at all but it just won't change out of 0020.
Removed the heatsincs, cleaned the thermal paste, did try heatgun it for a while all over the hana chip > gpu > cpu > ram, 1 min @300 c~ then around 2-3min at around, and still gives me error 0020... What did i break????? ><
Thanks!
remove the metal washers from your setup.. only have nylon ones and just dont a snug tight fit
Post by: moreniu on July 10, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 10, 2008, 02:15:00 PM
QUOTE(moreniu @ Jul 10 2008, 04:46 PM)
No go... T_T
Your motherboard must be wraped (bend) pretty good then.. 0020 is about the GPU.. if you run your xbox for 5min.. take off the gpu heatsink do you have a perfect square replica on the heatsink of the GPU dye with the thermal paste?
does the paste actually transfer over? same with the CPU.. make sure their making contact..
i know that heatgun (correctly) and that only nylon washer setup on the GPU/CPU should have the box up and running.
5minute heatgunning is good, 1min warm up .. then 4min on 2nd setting
Post by: raster1 on July 11, 2008, 05:36:00 AM
this is only tutorial that make my Xbox working again (err.E74)
heatgun, 1 sec. on 350 and 3 sec. on 500, upper side only on GPU and ANA, and replace thermal paste
important, when reassembling do not use a long torx on center on xbox, if you do, is possible to re-break solder joints.
other torx not so close firmely.
thanks !!
Andrea
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 11, 2008, 11:50:00 AM
QUOTE(raster1 @ Jul 11 2008, 02:12 PM)
hi to all !
this is only tutorial that make my Xbox working again (err.E74)
heatgun, 1 sec. on 350 and 3 sec. on 500, upper side only on GPU and ANA, and replace thermal paste
important, when reassembling do not use a long torx on center on xbox, if you do, is possible to re-break solder joints.
other torx not so close firmely.
thanks !!
Andrea
Suppose you mean 1 minute preheating and 3 minutes heatgunning 1 second would pretty much be pointless
And ye you do watch out that the heads of the screws+washer arent higher than 3mm under the mainboard because then the center will cause the mainboard to flex when you screws it in...
It can be solved by using flatter screw heads or drilling holes into the metal case so that the screws fit through
Post by: raster1 on July 12, 2008, 02:06:00 AM
yes minute, not second ...
Post by: DarkSabre_X on July 14, 2008, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 15, 2008, 01:05:00 AM
QUOTE(DarkSabre_X @ Jul 15 2008, 03:42 AM)
just tried to heatgun bottom of mobo and then top. my 360 has been jumping between 0020, 0110, 0022. put everything back together and still 0110 and 0022 when i play with the xclamp replacement screws. do i need those nylon washers under mobo and on top or just the ones on top? i have a feeling i may be buying another xbox. this sucks so bad. any tips. when i used the heatgun i used it over the ram gpu cup and ana chips. 1 min heat up and 3 mins on 560c.
Try 1 min heat up and 4 minutes heatgunning
I couldnt fix some that I only did for 3 minutes, the error returned later because it didnt reflow properly.
At first heatgun the bottom for the same time, then wait 45 minutes and then turn it around and do the top, focus mainly on GPU, RAM and ANA chip.
0020 and 0022 are both bridged solder joints, so if it doesnt work this time their condition is too bad to fix them with a reflow and reballing will be your last option
Also try lawdawgs x clamp replacement and make sure that the mainboard fits properly in the case and doesnt bend because of the screw heads...(there is only a 3mm gap)
Otherwise you will have to drill holes for the screws to fit through or use no washers at all
Post by: DarkSabre_X on July 15, 2008, 09:14:00 AM
Post by: chadives on July 15, 2008, 02:02:00 PM
not to discourage your revival....good luck.
Post by: HeLLSaTaN on July 16, 2008, 04:52:00 AM
Did the xclamps fix and right away E74 still
Tried playing with the xclamps screws for a bit and couldn't get it out of E74.Pretty sure my xbox needs to be Reballed maybe. I will try my other 3ROD box I got sitting here I bought off ebay. I'm also not sure if its E74 or some other error as I have never got it out of 3RODing yet (hehe no time)
But Parchment paper and 2 layers of Tin Foil works great its just hard to tape anything to the Paper as it is NON stick paper so you just gotta kinda mold it to the board. The third time I did was just 2 layers of foil and that's probably what causes 2 caps to start to burn. The board still works but still E74.
Or if all else fails just use LOTS of foil that also works just go crazy and do like 4 layers that is what I did my 2nd time as I threw out my Paper and getting a little frustrated.
Wish me luck hope to learn how to fix this other one and Mod it learn junk on it for fun
keeps me busy Edit: Forgot to say I was using a Cheap Black and Decker Heat gun (40 bucks) It says it goes up to 500C on high not sure what the low temp was. But the Instructions and Websites says it goes up to 500-550 or something like that. Should of been more then enough heat.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 16, 2008, 06:22:00 AM
QUOTE(HeLLSaTaN @ Jul 16 2008, 01:28 PM)
The third time I did was just 2 layers of foil and that's probably what causes 2 caps to start to burn. The board still works but still E74.
Looks like your 360 really needs to be reballed then
As I said aluminum foil only doesnt work because it transfers the heat very well and if the caps get in touch with it they get burned.The aluminum transfers the heat away and the second layer protects the components from the heat of the aluminum.
If you would have heatgunned it longer the caps would have blown
Post by: chadives on July 16, 2008, 10:09:00 AM
If it is just the electorlytic caps and some other somewhat easily removed parts, it would be a reliable reflow method. It would even open the door for some home re-balling with leaded solder for the brave.
Cheers on the tutorial btw, it is good to see a bit more progress with this problem. (after 3 years)
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 16, 2008, 03:09:00 PM
QUOTE(chadives @ Jul 16 2008, 06:45 PM)
Wilhelm, do you know which components on the board are not rated for 450C? I would like to compile a list at some point to see for one if there would be a way to use an oven to reflow by removing the usual suspects from the board, and 2nd a place to look for F'd parts on unsuccessful heatgunnings.
If it is just the electorlytic caps and some other somewhat easily removed parts, it would be a reliable reflow method. It would even open the door for some home re-balling with leaded solder for the brave.
Cheers on the tutorial btw, it is good to see a bit more progress with this problem. (after 3 years)
The things that easily start cooking are the big electrolytic caps as you pointed out already...
In a reflow oven you will also have to take care of the plugs which you will have to desolder first as well since they contain plastics
The buttons are also important since they will kind of melt and be hard to use afterwards.
This is only necessary if the heat is directed right at them though but I recently bought an xbox by a guy who used a reflow oven to fix it and the plugs and button were completely melted.
Luckily I had a broken mainboard that I could steal the parts from and got it to work without even having to use the heatgun...
So this is really an option but since the heatgun couldnt do anything I doubt that this will fix it for you as I said before reballing will most likely be your last option...
Post by: Tone666 on July 16, 2008, 08:13:00 PM
One problem tho, one of the capacitors (the one on its own, the right side of the 2 front memory chips, has a small black plastic square next to it) it has blown and also came loose
Does anyone in the UK have a spare one of these?
Says on the side 220uf and 10v.. the rest of the board is perfect.. you think maplins would stock a suitable replacement??
Any help would be much appreciated!
Regards..
Tone
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 17, 2008, 03:03:00 AM
QUOTE(Tone666 @ Jul 17 2008, 04:49 AM)
Hello... i just tried this and everything was ok it seemed..
One problem tho, one of the capacitors (the one on its own, the right side of the 2 front memory chips, has a small black plastic square next to it) it has blown and also came loose
Does anyone in the UK have a spare one of these?
Says on the side 220uf and 10v.. the rest of the board is perfect.. you think maplins would stock a suitable replacement??
Any help would be much appreciated!
Regards..
Tone
Looks like you didnt isolate it properly then...
Am in Germany and got a spare mainboard I could desolder it, shipping would take 2 days and cost you 2.50~1.80GBP.
So send me a PM if you are interested.
Post by: chadives on July 17, 2008, 09:10:00 AM
I realize it is a lot of work but I know people are itching to see it.can you even get leaded solder in Germany any more?
No pressure though
, well maybe just a little.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 17, 2008, 10:32:00 AM
QUOTE(chadives @ Jul 17 2008, 05:46 PM)
Willhelm, I have been dying to see someone attempt a home reflow job with good solder. I think that you are the man for the job!
I realize it is a lot of work but I know people are itching to see it.can you even get leaded solder in Germany any more?
No pressure though
, well maybe just a little.Yes we can still buy solder that contains lead, it is only banned from all electronics that children could get in touch with like TVs, consoles, PCs etc...
Am not sure what you mean because you dont need fresh solder to reflow the solder balls.
I assume though that what you mean is reballing the chips with lead solder balls which requires reflowing.
I have already looked into that but I came to the conclusion that it is not worth spending the money on the stuff you need since it will cost at least 1000~1600$ if you want to do it properly.
So far nobody shipped any of the 360s I fixed back(give a life time warranty...) which makes me think that reflowing the existing solder balls does the same job...
I must admit though that I am additionally using an improved version of the x-clamp replacement so this can be another reason....
Post by: chadives on July 17, 2008, 10:57:00 AM
As far as reflow goes, toaster oven/ standard ovens will work with a good way to measure the temp, there are even mods on the net how to add a controller to a toaster oven for heat profiles. It would not be hard to achieve the proper heat profile manually either. Also there is wax that you can get that is made to melt once you have reached a certain temp for further physical feedback.
Just an idea I can't get out of my head, probably more trouble than it is worth. Only time will tell.
I will leave you alone on this one now that I know you are garunteeing your stuff for life. You must be very confident that your fix will last. Care to share what x clamp replacement you use? Probably a trade secret anyway
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 17, 2008, 04:45:00 PM
QUOTE(chadives @ Jul 17 2008, 07:33 PM)
I do realize that you dont need fresh solder to reflow, but you have also stated that it is the crap lead free solder that is the problem in the first place. I really hope that you have solved this problem with your method, however I am thinking about when I hook up my 20 year old NES and it acutually works! Would be nice to think that we could be able to do the same with our xboxs.
As far as reflow goes, toaster oven/ standard ovens will work with a good way to measure the temp, there are even mods on the net how to add a controller to a toaster oven for heat profiles. It would not be hard to achieve the proper heat profile manually either. Also there is wax that you can get that is made to melt once you have reached a certain temp for further physical feedback.
Just an idea I can't get out of my head, probably more trouble than it is worth. Only time will tell.
I will leave you alone on this one now that I know you are garunteeing your stuff for life. You must be very confident that your fix will last. Care to share what x clamp replacement you use? Probably a trade secret anyway
The problem is more complex and is caused by a queue of unfortunate coincidences, the lead free solder is only one of them.
In addition with the uneven pressure(depends on their location) that lasts on the solder balls and the fast cooling down after turning the 360 off, the lead free solder balls get cracks.This makes each 360 a ticking time bomb that will get certain hardware errors to occur at the time when the counter reaches zero...
If you take one of these 3 factors away you get rid of the whole problem if it was only the leadfree solder most PC video cards and other components that are manufactured with the use of BGA would have the same issues.
So if you take the X-Clamps away and find a way to put even pressure on the chip so that each solderball carries the same weight you removed the factor of the uneven pressure caused by the flexing and the issues will most likely almost never occur like in older consoles.
There are always systems that break but not as many as we have here.
You cant really delete the second factor which is the cooling process but you can reduce the time in which the solder balls get the cracks by cooling it down as much as you can, for example water cooling would keep it nearly at the room temperature if not lower.
And the last option would be to replace the lead free solder.
Replacing the X-Clamps is the most effective method though in my opinion as everything will break sooner or later if it flexes, the cool downs only support the effect that the flexing has on the solder balls.
Hope this made sense as I cant be arsed to read through this again
The wax you have been talking about there is quite a nice thing the only problem is that you will have to do it for a bit longer since most of the solder balls are under the chips and dont get the direct airflow that the wax was heated up with.
It would be quite interesting to see though so I think I will give it a go.
Do you have a link where you can buy this stuff?(if possible in the E.U)
I will make a tutorial when I am sure that it really works, I have tested it on 9 xboxes so far and the first one has been running for about 5 months now...
Am still improving it though, I already have something in my mind that I will try next time.
Post by: chadives on July 17, 2008, 11:33:00 PM
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 18, 2008, 04:28:00 AM
Someone screwed up didn't do a good job on the X clamp replacement....wow...I emailed the ass holes asking for a refund or something...I don't know what they will do though...I am gonna heatgun tomorrow...see if it works or not.
Probably going to go hood with the Wax paper, I will report back. I might spread some flux and try to get it on the outer edges of the BGA...wonder if that will do anything.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 18, 2008, 04:39:00 AM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 18 2008, 01:04 PM)
I bought some RROD 360 off of some company off of ebay. I am fucked. Looks as though someone was in it. It still had the X clamps, but you could tell it was opened, and when I took off the GPU heatsink, 20 pounds of thermal grease on the GPU.
Someone screwed up didn't do a good job on the X clamp replacement....wow...I emailed the ass holes asking for a refund or something...I don't know what they will do though...I am gonna heatgun tomorrow...see if it works or not.
Probably going to go hood with the Wax paper, I will report back. I might spread some flux and try to get it on the outer edges of the BGA...wonder if that will do anything.
Ye, never buy anything of companies that fix 360s you will only get the worst bull shit that they either fucked up themselves or that they cant fix(bought one that they tried to heatgun and the RAM was pressed to the mainboard and all the solder balls were flat...)
Most people on Ebay already tried to fix the 360s themselves but these are always fixable, just dont buy anything from companies.
Here in the E.U you have the right to return it within 2 weeks so have a look on the solder balls under the chips because they might have heatgunned it already and reballing isnt that funny...
So if you think it is too messed up just send it back and get your refund...
Post by: chadives on July 18, 2008, 01:35:00 PM
What I do with this stuff if flake little chunks of it off the stick and put the chucks near what you are interested in gauging the temp. When the specific temp is reached the stuff will melt(change phase to liquid). That is why sometimes it is referred to as a phase change thermometer. Once it is melted and you let your board cool, u just scrape it off like wax.
I have also seen thermocouples/DMM used for this but they are not rated for +/-1degree accuracy like the tempil stick, for that you will need calibration. May want to use the stick and a thermocouple at the same time and note what the melt point was on your thermocouple/DMM and use that for your temp monitoring of the oven.
omega is another manufacturer that makes sticks and kits with ranges of sticks. The closest distributor I found in Europe was UKWelder.com, but try ur local welding shop first as they wanted 11pounds for one stick which is twice what it costs in the states. My technician at work is a very clever individual who has all sorts of reflow experience. Not sure if he coined the usage of this stuff, but it works very well for this application. He is a bottomless pit of knowlege for this type of thing so let me know if you have questions.
You may want to look into reflow heating/cooling profiles as well. Not sure if there is a toaster oven out there that is big enough for this board, but there is a lot of homebrew stuff for reflow controllers for these things(not completely nessecary as it can be done manually). Good Luck and thanks for showing interest in this idea.
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 18, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 18 2008, 07:15 AM)
Ye, never buy anything of companies that fix 360s you will only get the worst bull shit that they either fucked up themselves or that they cant fix(bought one that they tried to heatgun and the RAM was pressed to the mainboard and all the solder balls were flat...)
Most people on Ebay already tried to fix the 360s themselves but these are always fixable, just dont buy anything from companies.
Here in the E.U you have the right to return it within 2 weeks so have a look on the solder balls under the chips because they might have heatgunned it already and reballing isnt that funny...
So if you think it is too messed up just send it back and get your refund...
Looks as though all solder balls are OK. I will try heatgunning later today. I am doing a controller mod from hell. It will give me nightmares....never ever try to light up the ABXY buttons. Any of you. You will save yourself time and anger.
Post by: DJEuthyphro on July 18, 2008, 03:51:00 PM
Post by: DJEuthyphro on July 18, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
QUOTE(DJEuthyphro @ Jul 18 2008, 03:27 PM)
I'm going to heat gun the ram on the underside of the board. Do I need to remove the cpu and gpu heatsinks before I do this? I'm thinking the screws i'm using might get red hot and do some damage or possibly expand inside the heatsinks. Also, if i'm just heat gunning the bottom of the board to start, do I still need to wrap it all up? I probably will, better safe than sorry. Thanks.
Nevermind, I found the answer myself. According to Wilhem I the arctic silver isn't rated for these high heatgun temperatures.I'll remove the heatsinks and clean off the arctic silver. These forums are a plethora of good information.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 19, 2008, 06:31:00 AM
QUOTE(chadives @ Jul 18 2008, 10:11 PM)
Hey wilhelm, the product that melts at temps is called a tempil stick. They come for all different temperatures and is used primarily in welding operations. the company that makes em is tempil and you should be able to go to a welding supply store and get the right one, they make one for 450F, 455F, 463F, 475F, 482F, 488F, 500F, ect.
What I do with this stuff if flake little chunks of it off the stick and put the chucks near what you are interested in gauging the temp. When the specific temp is reached the stuff will melt(change phase to liquid). That is why sometimes it is referred to as a phase change thermometer. Once it is melted and you let your board cool, u just scrape it off like wax.
I have also seen thermocouples/DMM used for this but they are not rated for +/-1degree accuracy like the tempil stick, for that you will need calibration. May want to use the stick and a thermocouple at the same time and note what the melt point was on your thermocouple/DMM and use that for your temp monitoring of the oven.
omega is another manufacturer that makes sticks and kits with ranges of sticks. The closest distributor I found in Europe was UKWelder.com, but try ur local welding shop first as they wanted 11pounds for one stick which is twice what it costs in the states. My technician at work is a very clever individual who has all sorts of reflow experience. Not sure if he coined the usage of this stuff, but it works very well for this application. He is a bottomless pit of knowlege for this type of thing so let me know if you have questions.
You may want to look into reflow heating/cooling profiles as well. Not sure if there is a toaster oven out there that is big enough for this board, but there is a lot of homebrew stuff for reflow controllers for these things(not completely nessecary as it can be done manually). Good Luck and thanks for showing interest in this idea.
Thanks a lot for this information I will definitely look into this.
11 GBP is pretty much thats like 16 or 23$ and shipping must still be added as well, lol.
Will look for it in local stores first and maybe I get lucky on Ebay as well.
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 18 2008, 11:48 PM)
Looks as though all solder balls are OK. I will try heatgunning later today. I am doing a controller mod from hell. It will give me nightmares....never ever try to light up the ABXY buttons. Any of you. You will save yourself time and anger.
I thought about doing that actually, as I still got some 5mm white LEDs(25000mcd).
How long did it take you so far, is it really that hard to do?
QUOTE(DJEuthyphro @ Jul 19 2008, 02:05 AM)
Nevermind, I found the answer myself. According to Wilhem I the arctic silver isn't rated for these high heatgun temperatures.I'll remove the heatsinks and clean off the arctic silver. These forums are a plethora of good information.
And there is a second reason if you dont do that and you reach the melting point or get close to it(the solder joints will become softer and softer the higher the temperature is), the pressure will push the GPU/CPU to the mainboard and flatten the solderballs below, these shorten out then and the only solution to your problem will be a reball of the whole chip...
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 19, 2008, 11:07:00 AM
Bubbly GPU, not too noticeable in the picture, but a little more noticeable in real life.
So I am heatgunning, and I hear a big crack and some big smoke comes up, so that was my cue to stop. This is what happened.
O jeez...well I got to go get some capacitors.
Post by: KrInEn on July 19, 2008, 12:01:00 PM
Then started it up and shot out a 0102 at me so I pushed on all of the components till I got to one of the ram chips then it shot a 0103?!? anything that I should try next?
And now 0101 LOL I just can't win!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 19, 2008, 04:38:00 PM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 19 2008, 07:43 PM)
OK well I tried to heatgun my board, but with not too good results. I kept the CPU heatsink on because I had just used the X clamps on it and I didn't want to have to take off the X clamp and put it back on. I tried to insulate everything with freezer paper and aluminum foil, aluminum foil against the mobo, freezer paper, then more aluminum foil. These are my results.
Bubbly GPU, not too noticeable in the picture, but a little more noticeable in real life.
So I am heatgunning, and I hear a big crack and some big smoke comes up, so that was my cue to stop. This is what happened.
O jeez...well I got to go get some capacitors.
God damn dude!!!
For how long did you heatgun it?
This looks like you burned it with a flamethrower or something
You are always supposed to remove all heatsinks otherwise it will completely fuck up the chip and flatten the solder balls ...
Your GPU doesnt look healthy either, if it has got little bubbles it pretty much wont be worth replacing the caps because it is fucked up.
The isolation doesnt seem to have worked or you didnt cover it properly, so for the future get this plastic foil!
Thanks god the isolation protected you from the cap that blew up this could have blinded you...
If you need these capacitors though and if this is a Xenon mainboard I could desolder them from one of my spare ones and ship them to you send me a PM if you are interested
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 19, 2008, 06:35:00 PM
It is a zephyr board, not a xenon, but I Don't think it will matter. Ya I'll send you a PM. And the CPU is fine, I looked under there and it seems as though the solder balls are fine. I just looked under the heatsink wtihout taking it off, the solder balls on one side were intact, that means that even if the ones one the other side flowed, they wouldn't have smashed.
Post by: somacast on July 19, 2008, 07:53:00 PM
first of all , regarding the capacitors , a couple of layers of heat resistance tape with the aluminum foil will do good or as mentioned in the tutorial .. but this isnt the main thing
any small dirt hidden under the ram chips mainly ( i mean with dirts thing like the sticky substance used under the lower rams) r gonna expand and left the ram and screw up the half-dead xbox of urs,,
i had this problem and now my xbox is one ram less , lolz
.. iam trying to figure out a way to fix it back using the same damn heat gun...well after several consoles between heat gunning and x-clamp i would say is buying another console is always better mainly for the time waste ( thats my opinion , no need to kill me ppl who disagree
good luck for everyone ..
Post by: HeLLSaTaN on July 20, 2008, 03:53:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 20, 2008, 05:42:00 AM
QUOTE(somacast @ Jul 20 2008, 04:29 AM)
with my complete respect to this tutorial , things rnt as easy as it looks like ...
first of all , regarding the capacitors , a couple of layers of heat resistance tape with the aluminum foil will do good or as mentioned in the tutorial .. but this isnt the main thing
any small dirt hidden under the ram chips mainly ( i mean with dirts thing like the sticky substance used under the lower rams) r gonna expand and left the ram and screw up the half-dead xbox of urs,,
i had this problem and now my xbox is one ram less , lolz
.. iam trying to figure out a way to fix it back using the same damn heat gun...well after several consoles between heat gunning and x-clamp i would say is buying another console is always better mainly for the time waste ( thats my opinion , no need to kill me ppl who disagree
good luck for everyone ..
Dont really know what you mean by small dirt but the bottom RAM never fell off for me...
There is pretty much no way to repair this besides reballing the RAM brick, this happened to me once as well but for the top ram, the aluminum foil lifted one of the RAM bricks up...
The board I am using for spare parts is a Xenon but it should work though since the capacitors got the same specifications(16v 100uF)
Just looked at the pictures again and figured out that you got a Xenon as well and not a Zephyr because you still got the old ANA chip...
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 20, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 20 2008, 08:18 AM)
Dont really know what you mean by small dirt but the bottom RAM never fell off for me...
There is pretty much no way to repair this besides reballing the RAM brick, this happened to me once as well but for the top ram, the aluminum foil lifted one of the RAM bricks up...
The board I am using for spare parts is a Xenon but it should work though since the capacitors got the same specifications(16v 100uF)
Just looked at the pictures again and figured out that you got a Xenon as well and not a Zephyr because you still got the old ANA chip...
It is a Zephyr. It has the metal capacitors in front of the GPU instead of the yellow ones that Xenons have. The Falcon consoles have the new ANA chip.
Post by: KrInEn on July 20, 2008, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: haigha on July 20, 2008, 07:06:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ May 24 2008, 01:03 PM)
Well what you need:
...
- Some thick plastic foil(like on the picture, the thicker the better)
EW_I:
First, thanks for the guide
Second, what do you think of using a cut out silicone baking sheet instead of the thick plastic. This particular one is supposed to be safe to 560 F and re-usable for $10:
http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B00005AXJ9
Taping it to the board and then applying the foil... or do you think the foil would even be necessary with this thick an insulator?
I'm thinking about this heat gun, has a lot of features over the Wagner in the other thread for an extra $10:
http://www.amazon.co...il/-/B000095SHQ
Post by: DarkSabre_X on July 20, 2008, 09:40:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 21, 2008, 03:37:00 AM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 20 2008, 08:43 PM)
It is a Zephyr. It has the metal capacitors in front of the GPU instead of the yellow ones that Xenons have. The Falcon consoles have the new ANA chip.
It is definitely a Xenon, the late ones had the metal capacitors as well...
Zephyrs have got a different mainboard layout and the HANA chip + an HDMI port.
If it was a Zephyr one you would also have the upgraded GPU heatsink.
@Krlnen:
For how long did you heatgun it?
@haigha:
The foil doesnt look that thick by what I can see on the pictures.
It might be a good isolator but I doubt it, it will most likely just be some high temperature silicon that can take the heat without melting...
First look for it in a local hardware store like bosnia suggested or if you ever bought an XCM case take the foil from that(this is what I used)
The heatgun looks good but 35$ sounds a bit expensive, the reason for this will most likely be the bunch of adapters that are included in the package so if you want to save some money look for one without them...
@DarkSabre_X:
There was a topic about this recently in one of the hardware forums(someone wanted to desolder it) so search for that...
Post by: KrInEn on July 21, 2008, 01:32:00 PM
QUOTE
@Krlnen:
For how long did you heatgun it?
1 min warm up all times tthen 3 mins full heat the first time. then 4 mins full heat the second
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 21, 2008, 02:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 21 2008, 06:13 AM)
It is definitely a Xenon, the late ones had the metal capacitors as well...
Zephyrs have got a different mainboard layout and the HANA chip + an HDMI port.
If it was a Zephyr one you would also have the upgraded GPU heatsink.
Ya I guess you are right then.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 21, 2008, 03:21:00 PM
QUOTE(KrInEn @ Jul 21 2008, 10:08 PM)
1 min warm up all times tthen 3 mins full heat the first time. then 4 mins full heat the second
Looks like the towel trick has flattened out some solder balls really bad then so that even reflowing doesnt bring them back in touch with the GPU
Reballing it will most likely be your only option
Just out of curiosity, did you do the bottom and then the top and both 1 minute preheat+4 minutes heatgunning?
If you didnt do the bottom it might be one of the bottom RAM that causes the 0102 if not there is really no hope besides a reball, sorry mate
Post by: RYU81 on July 22, 2008, 05:54:00 PM
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 22, 2008, 06:57:00 PM
QUOTE(DarkSabre_X @ Jul 21 2008, 12:16 AM)
well i re did the heatgun and it melted my controller sync button and a cap did swell a lil. now all it gives me is 0001. would the melted button be shorting the power???? can i just completely de solder it? or could it be that cap. now i'm just doing this for fun considering i will definitely have to buy another one. does anyone know the pinout for that sync button. maybe i can find a makeshift replacement at radioshack or something
The swelled cap is your 0001 problem.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 23, 2008, 06:03:00 AM
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 23 2008, 02:30 AM)
what the alternative for foil ?I don't have same as you used it.
There are a few people who had limited success with very thick cookie paper.
Just browse through the post and you will find some stuff...
The easiest way would be to get the foil from a local hardware store though
Post by: cylent on July 23, 2008, 06:17:00 AM
my xbox 360 is giving me the dreaded 0022 error.
i have snatched a new dual heatsink from a broken xbox 360 .. (the fins on the small heatsink are a bit bent but the tube is fine).
Now my problem is i have a feeling the GPU maybe dead (i seriously hope i am wrong here). I came to this conclusion because when i try to overheat the system by removing the fan shard (white plastic piece) and putting the fan directly on the cpu i notice the GPU heatsink does not get hot not by touch.
I've read this thread from start and I understand that i am supposed to heatgun the area between the HANA and the GPU (as well as the GPU itself)...
I've done this with my trusty heatgun but i am not getting any results.
The local repair shop guy has his own theory. He says the little tiny chips on the GPU itself have popped and they are the cause. He heatguned the GPU for me for like a minute (i dont know what temperature) and let it set for another minute and concluded the board is done with. For some reason i think he's smoking something. what do you guys think?
any help is greatly appreciated ...
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 23, 2008, 08:57:00 AM
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 22 2008, 08:30 PM)
what the alternative for foil ?I don't have same as you used it.
Go to the hardware store and pick up their called "drop sheets" usually paint department its used to cover up furniture when painting and what not. Get the heavy duty ones and that will be good and then use aluminum foil you have some in your kitchen if you guys cook food at all. Or pick the aluminum foil up at a grocery store.
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 23 2008, 08:53 AM)
hello all.
my xbox 360 is giving me the dreaded 0022 error.
i have snatched a new dual heatsink from a broken xbox 360 .. (the fins on the small heatsink are a bit bent but the tube is fine).
Now my problem is i have a feeling the GPU maybe dead (i seriously hope i am wrong here). I came to this conclusion because when i try to overheat the system by removing the fan shard (white plastic piece) and putting the fan directly on the cpu i notice the GPU heatsink does not get hot not by touch.
I've read this thread from start and I understand that i am supposed to heatgun the area between the HANA and the GPU (as well as the GPU itself)...
I've done this with my trusty heatgun but i am not getting any results.
The local repair shop guy has his own theory. He says the little tiny chips on the GPU itself have popped and they are the cause. He heatguned the GPU for me for like a minute (i dont know what temperature) and let it set for another minute and concluded the board is done with. For some reason i think he's smoking something. what do you guys think?
any help is greatly appreciated ...
Heatgunning for 1min like he did is no wheres close to enough.. the heatgun doesnt even have time to heat up to the temperature you set it to no matter what that temp is.
If you followed this tutorial as described and heated the top and bottom (bottom first) for ~5min each (1 warm up, 4 heat) and the board doesnt work after replacing the x clamps + AS5 its really hard to say what the problem could be.
did you damage the motherboard at all? cause according your repair guy if the solder balls have broken, heating the board up in the specific areas for that time will get those solder balls warm enough and they will reflow (connecting) themselves again.
If all fails i think alll you got is a professional reflow left and there is a few people that do it here on this forum you gotta send your xbox in pay shipping both ways plus another 40-50$ and they do it for you.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 23, 2008, 09:49:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 23 2008, 02:53 PM)
hello all.
my xbox 360 is giving me the dreaded 0022 error.
i have snatched a new dual heatsink from a broken xbox 360 .. (the fins on the small heatsink are a bit bent but the tube is fine).
Now my problem is i have a feeling the GPU maybe dead (i seriously hope i am wrong here). I came to this conclusion because when i try to overheat the system by removing the fan shard (white plastic piece) and putting the fan directly on the cpu i notice the GPU heatsink does not get hot not by touch.
I've read this thread from start and I understand that i am supposed to heatgun the area between the HANA and the GPU (as well as the GPU itself)...
I've done this with my trusty heatgun but i am not getting any results.
The local repair shop guy has his own theory. He says the little tiny chips on the GPU itself have popped and they are the cause. He heatguned the GPU for me for like a minute (i dont know what temperature) and let it set for another minute and concluded the board is done with. For some reason i think he's smoking something. what do you guys think?
any help is greatly appreciated ...
Yes the area is right HANA to GPU...
However the guy who told you about the popped caps is an idiot...
If this was the case your error code would be 0020 or the 360 would run as usual since some of the caps can be missing or fucked up and the 360 is still running...
After the 10 seconds that it takes for the 0022 to show up the error code should change from 0020 to 0022 if this was true...
The 1 minute heatgunning pretty much confirms that he doesnt know what hes doing and there is no way that a cap popped in this time unless he directed the heat at the same place the whole time
Like bosnia said to reflow everything properly follow the guide here.
First do the bottom of the mainboard, preheat on the first step for 1 minute and then heatgun for 4 minutes...
Then wait for 45 minutes to let it cool down, turn it around isolate everything and do the same to the top side(1 min preheat, 4 minutes heatgunning).
Let it rest for another 45 minutes and then do the X Clamp replacement.
Make sure you only tighten the screws as much as necessary so that the mainboard doesnt flex...
Succesfully fixed 3 of these like that, so it should work.
Good luck
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 10:40:00 AM
2-must do that in top and bottom?
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 23, 2008, 11:07:00 AM
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 23 2008, 01:16 PM)
1-is there chance to fix 0100 error?
2-must do that in top and bottom?
1-
2 - highly recommended, whats the point in doing all the work just to do one side, while your at it might as well do the other
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 23, 2008, 11:38:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 23 2008, 07:43 PM)
1-
2 - highly recommended, whats the point in doing all the work just to do one side, while your at it might as well do the other
1- might will most likely be CPU/GPU/RAM area related (mix out of 0102 and 0110?= cold solder joint under CPU/GPU and under the RAM), so concentrate on it...
2- what bosnia said...
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: cylent on July 23, 2008, 04:58:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 23 2008, 08:25 PM)
Yes the area is right HANA to GPU...
However the guy who told you about the popped caps is an idiot...
If this was the case your error code would be 0020 or the 360 would run as usual since some of the caps can be missing or fucked up and the 360 is still running...
After the 10 seconds that it takes for the 0022 to show up the error code should change from 0020 to 0022 if this was true...
The 1 minute heatgunning pretty much confirms that he doesnt know what hes doing and there is no way that a cap popped in this time unless he directed the heat at the same place the whole time
Like bosnia said to reflow everything properly follow the guide here.
First do the bottom of the mainboard, preheat on the first step for 1 minute and then heatgun for 4 minutes...
Then wait for 45 minutes to let it cool down, turn it around isolate everything and do the same to the top side(1 min preheat, 4 minutes heatgunning).
Let it rest for another 45 minutes and then do the X Clamp replacement.
Make sure you only tighten the screws as much as necessary so that the mainboard doesnt flex...
Succesfully fixed 3 of these like that, so it should work.
Good luck
thanks for the reply
i fear my heatgun is insufficient for the job.
its one of those hand held ones (not like a gun shaped heatgun like the ones demonstrated).
It does say 450W on the box -- it doesnt have real C measurements. just 1-8 for heat and 1-6 for air.
I held it onto a an old circuit board trying to even melt anything and it just doesnt do it.
I think its a glorified hair dryer sold as a heatgun ...
I plan on getting a new one tomorrow..
My questions now are:
1- How do i know if my GPU is completely un-fixable?
under the GPU (back side of board) there are what appears to be caps? ... one looks a bit black.
2- When you say I have to heatgun the GPU to the ANA chip area I noticed that most of the caps and solder points are on the back of the board there aint much to heatgun on the front. Do i include the GPU also?
3- at this time since my heatgun is junk can i use an alternate method to fix this 0022? please note i currently have the dual heatsink on my board and i also had the local repair guy lock the fans to full speed so towel trick is not an option even though i hate to do it but i am running out of options.
also, its ok to put the x-clamps back on after heatgunning, correct?
I would appreciate some visual (if anyone has any) fixes for this 0022 error ...
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 05:40:00 PM
2-what thickness for aluminium foil must to use?
3-must clean GPU & CPU with alcohol before use heatgun?
4-my heatgun there to option to flow air(low & high)?which must to use?
5-when to know stop use heat gun for mobo?
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 08:07:00 PM
6-after reflow front mobo and wait 45 mins,it is must remove aluminium foil from mobo to reflow back mobo?
7-how much time need to reflow back mobo and which degree temp?
8-it is good some tape over holes?(same tape your used)
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 23, 2008, 08:14:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 23 2008, 07:34 PM)
My questions now are:
1- How do i know if my GPU is completely un-fixable?
under the GPU (back side of board) there are what appears to be caps? ... one looks a bit black.
2- When you say I have to heatgun the GPU to the ANA chip area I noticed that most of the caps and solder points are on the back of the board there aint much to heatgun on the front. Do i include the GPU also?
3- at this time since my heatgun is junk can i use an alternate method to fix this 0022? please note i currently have the dual heatsink on my board and i also had the local repair guy lock the fans to full speed so towel trick is not an option even though i hate to do it but i am running out of options.
also, its ok to put the x-clamps back on after heatgunning, correct?
I would appreciate some visual (if anyone has any) fixes for this 0022 error ...
1 - your gpu is completly fucked if its completly off the motherboard, which i highly doubt so im sure you can fix it
2- cover exactly as in those pictures on page 1 or 2. Dont cover less dont cover more and youll be good
3- just wait till tmr morning and do clean the chips from the old thermal compound, heat gun, apply artic silver 5 and put do the x clamp fix
no i wouldnt recommend x clamps do the x clamp fix with screws and washers.. youll be better off some people have put x clamps back on back but your fixing a problem and then your calling it back with the x-clamps
so just do the x clamp FIX with the nuts and washers and you should be good
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 23 2008, 08:16 PM)
1-I got foil from when buy new Printer or TV.id good to use it?
2-what thickness for aluminium foil must to use?
3-must clean GPU & CPU with alcohol before use heatgun?
4-my heatgun there to option to flow air(low & high)?which must to use?
5-when to know stop use heat gun for mobo?
1-feel it in your hand... if its squishy and you can hear crackling sounds then NO.. if its dry and almost sticks to your fingers sure use at your OWN risk. But still the drop sheet stuff i told you is 2$ for like a HUGE roll of it.
2- didnt know it comes in diff thicknesses, use the medium one..
3- yes clean off the old thermal compound stuff off your chips..
4-you use first low for 1 minute, then high for the other 4 minutes...
5- once your stopwatch reaches 5minutes, or you see smoke starting
Have you read any of these previous pages? Because i just answered your question out kindness and i shouldnt have because everything is already stated you asked.. like MANY times and its in this exact same thread so you didnt even have to search just hit page 1,2,3 etc...
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: RYU81 on July 23, 2008, 09:57:00 PM
in question no.4 I mean level of air not temp,if use low air with which temp and also when will use high air with how much temp?
6-after reflow front mobo and wait 45 mins,it is must remove aluminium foil from mobo to reflow back mobo?
7-how much time need to reflow back mobo and which degree temp?
8-it is good some tape over holes?(same tape your used)
9-I test tape in other place with heatgun I saw tape melt!!is that normal if that happen in mobo?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 24, 2008, 03:11:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 01:34 AM)
thanks for the reply
i fear my heatgun is insufficient for the job.
its one of those hand held ones (not like a gun shaped heatgun like the ones demonstrated).
It does say 450W on the box -- it doesnt have real C measurements. just 1-8 for heat and 1-6 for air.
I held it onto a an old circuit board trying to even melt anything and it just doesnt do it.
I think its a glorified hair dryer sold as a heatgun ...
I plan on getting a new one tomorrow..
My questions now are:
1- How do i know if my GPU is completely un-fixable?
under the GPU (back side of board) there are what appears to be caps? ... one looks a bit black.
2- When you say I have to heatgun the GPU to the ANA chip area I noticed that most of the caps and solder points are on the back of the board there aint much to heatgun on the front. Do i include the GPU also?
3- at this time since my heatgun is junk can i use an alternate method to fix this 0022? please note i currently have the dual heatsink on my board and i also had the local repair guy lock the fans to full speed so towel trick is not an option even though i hate to do it but i am running out of options.
also, its ok to put the x-clamps back on after heatgunning, correct?
I would appreciate some visual (if anyone has any) fixes for this 0022 error ...
1) If the GPU is fucked is hard to check, it most likely never happens if anything is fucked up then it is one of the solderballs under the GPU and this can only be check with x-ray...
The fact that the cap is black must not mean a thing, it is a known fact that caps can even be missing and the 360 still works perfectly...
2) You include the whole GPU and the HANA chip(you should have one if you have the upgraded heatsink otherwise it is just a refurbished Xenon), you first do the back and after that the top of the mainboard...
3) There are alternative methods to fix this like the x-clamp replacement which worked for my first xbox in my opinion it is just not worth it though as it only worked for about 4 minutes...
The longest I could get out of it was 2 days of gaming after overheating the 360...
To fix this error permanently you have to heatgun it the way I told you above and apply the x-clamp replacement afterwards...
So, no putting the x-clamps back on is not a good idea, they are barely made to work once and because of the flexing it is just a mattter of time when the ROD returns...
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 24 2008, 02:16 AM)
1-I got foil from when buy new Printer or TV.id good to use it?
2-what thickness for aluminium foil must to use?
3-must clean GPU & CPU with alcohol before use heatgun?
4-my heatgun there to option to flow air(low & high)?which must to use?
5-when to know stop use heat gun for mobo?
1) Take a picture!
2) The thickness of the aluminum foil doesnt matter it is just used as a shield
3) Is better to clean it before because after heatgunning it is harder to remove...
4) low for 1 minute(preheat) and high for reflowing(4 minutes)
5) Look at 4 otherwise a general rule is that you stop as soon as something starts smoking...
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 24 2008, 04:43 AM)
other question:
6-after reflow front mobo and wait 45 mins,it is must remove aluminium foil from mobo to reflow back mobo?
7-how much time need to reflow back mobo and which degree temp?
8-it is good some tape over holes?(same tape your used)
6) Reflow the back first, then isolate it and do the front, in case you really choose to do it the other way around you will have to remove the foil before heatgunning it from the back otherwise you will burn it...
7) Look at 4
8) Dont tape over holes the heat will melt the tape and in the worst case it will start burning...
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 24 2008, 06:33 AM)
I'll repeat my questions again.
in question no.4 I mean level of air not temp,if use low air with which temp and also when will use high air with how much temp?
6-after reflow front mobo and wait 45 mins,it is must remove aluminium foil from mobo to reflow back mobo?
7-how much time need to reflow back mobo and which degree temp?
8-it is good some tape over holes?(same tape your used)
9-I test tape in other place with heatgun I saw tape melt!!is that normal if that happen in mobo?
4 [new]) Always use high for much air...
6,7,8) Look above
9) It is normal and it wont happen to the mainboard because it is a different material...
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 24, 2008, 06:11:00 AM
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 24 2008, 12:33 AM)
I'll repeat my questions again.
in question no.4 I mean level of air not temp,if use low air with which temp and also when will use high air with how much temp?
6-after reflow front mobo and wait 45 mins,it is must remove aluminium foil from mobo to reflow back mobo?
7-how much time need to reflow back mobo and which degree temp?
8-it is good some tape over holes?(same tape your used)
9-I test tape in other place with heatgun I saw tape melt!!is that normal if that happen in mobo?
6 - states on page 1 of this thread
7 - stated on page 1
8 - state on page 1 (and even why not to put anything over the holes)
9 - excellent discovery!
Seriously dude read the thread for crying out loud its all answered already!
Post by: RYU81 on July 24, 2008, 10:29:00 AM
http://imageshack.us
http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=398&i=picture001el2.jpg
http://imageshack.us
http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=393&i=picture002mn0.jpg
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 24, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 24, 2008, 11:41:00 AM
Guess this is quite clear but just to make sure you do it right, you must still cover this foil with a layer of aluminum foil....
Post by: cylent on July 24, 2008, 01:16:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 24 2008, 06:50 AM)
1 - your gpu is completly fucked if its completly off the motherboard, which i highly doubt so im sure you can fix it
2- cover exactly as in those pictures on page 1 or 2. Dont cover less dont cover more and youll be good
3- just wait till tmr morning and do clean the chips from the old thermal compound, heat gun, apply artic silver 5 and put do the x clamp fix
no i wouldnt recommend x clamps do the x clamp fix with screws and washers.. youll be better off some people have put x clamps back on back but your fixing a problem and then your calling it back with the x-clamps
so just do the x clamp FIX with the nuts and washers and you should be good
ok so i tried with a new heat gun (professional one) with visible temperature readings.
I first started on the back side, I did the pre-heating for 1 minute then i set it to 480-490C and started heating the area from GPU to ATA (back side) .. i did this for about 4 minutes.
I turned the heat off then i started to blow air using the heat gun for it cool a bit then i flipped the board over and started on the GPU going in circles.... I heard a small crack and i noticed the GPU sort of lift itself BUT it did NOT detach. there is visible lines between the GPU and the board so it IS attached.
I immediately stopped and decided to test.
unfortunately i had to reattach the xclamp cause i dont have enough screws for the GPU and CPU. i can only do no-x-clamp for GPU.
Same thing. 0022.
no screen what-so-ever.
i'd be jumping up and down if i even get the screen to show anything.
So i accomplished nothing really..
anybody wanna pitch in here? i am very lost now.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 24, 2008, 01:42:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 03:52 PM)
ok so i tried with a new heat gun (professional one) with visible temperature readings.
I first started on the back side, I did the pre-heating for 1 minute then i set it to 480-490C and started heating the area from GPU to ATA (back side) .. i did this for about 4 minutes.
I turned the heat off then i started to blow air using the heat gun for it cool a bit then i flipped the board over and started on the GPU going in circles.... I heard a small crack and i noticed the GPU sort of lift itself BUT it did NOT detach. there is visible lines between the GPU and the board so it IS attached.
I immediately stopped and decided to test.
unfortunately i had to reattach the xclamp cause i dont have enough screws for the GPU and CPU. i can only do no-x-clamp for GPU.
Same thing. 0022.
no screen what-so-ever.
i'd be jumping up and down if i even get the screen to show anything.
So i accomplished nothing really..
anybody wanna pitch in here? i am very lost now.
Well 0022 is cold solder on the GPU so pretty much the solder didnt get reflowed correctly..
you say you flipped the motherboard over?
Im guessing you covered everything as stated? Im also guessing you waited atleast 45minutes between doing back and front (so it cools of right)
I say do it again,
But what also could be causing your problem is those x clamps.. you might have fixed the connections but the x clamps are bending the connections back out and breaking them apart (99% sure this is your case). Take a stroll to your hardware store get the screws and what not, heatgun again? (optional) put those washers and stuff on like x clamp fix says
and play your xbox
Post by: cylent on July 24, 2008, 01:46:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 25 2008, 12:18 AM)
Well 0022 is cold solder on the GPU so pretty much the solder didnt get reflowed correctly..
you say you flipped the motherboard over?
Im guessing you covered everything as stated? Im also guessing you waited atleast 45minutes between doing back and front (so it cools of right)
I say do it again,
But what also could be causing your problem is those x clamps.. you might have fixed the connections but the x clamps are bending them back out and breaking them apart. Take a stroll to your hardware store get the screws and what not, heatgun again? (optional) put those washers and stuff on like x clamp fix says
and play your xbox
ok i am obviously not understanding the basic concept here
first. FRONT SIDE. i cover just like the original pictures where just the RAM, GPU, CPU and ATA chip are visible. everything is convered in ALUMINUM FOIL
I heat the board on 150C for 1 minute going in small or big circles??????
Then I set it to 450+C and go in circles for 4 minutes. again, big or small circles?
is this where i wait 45 minutes for the Back side. Do i need to do back side?
where is the cold soder for the GPU thats causing 0022? on the front or on the back?
All of the board OR just the GPU to ANA chip area?
in regards to the xclamp can i just do the GPU and leave the xclamp on the CPU?
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 24, 2008, 01:55:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 04:22 PM)
ok i am obviously not understanding the basic concept here
first. FRONT SIDE. i cover just like the original pictures where just the RAM, GPU, CPU and ATA chip are visible. everything is convered in ALUMINUM FOIL
I heat the board on 150C for 1 minute going in small or big circles??????
Then I set it to 450+C and go in circles for 4 minutes. again, big or small circles?
is this where i wait 45 minutes for the Back side. Do i need to do back side?
where is the cold soder for the GPU thats causing 0022? on the front or on the back?
All of the board OR just the GPU to ANA chip area?
in regards to the xclamp can i just do the GPU and leave the xclamp on the CPU?
I know first page says do front then back.. but its been said later on in the thread do the back then front.. but either way is alright i guess... but i would first do BACK
No first do the BACK and you dont need to cover anything in the back because your only focusing on a specific area and there is nothing to damage if your careful: Focus on circled area
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic02780gh9gc0.jpg
Do this on 1minute (low/warm up/1st setting on your gun)
4minutes - 2nd option /high
In just normal circles
When you do this for around ~5min TOTAL, leave the board ALONE DONT TOUCH ANYTHING for 45 MINUTES. (id say like 1hour is good)
go get the board and cover everything in the FRONT like those pictures show (using 2 layers.. 1 is the wrap paper/plastic and 2nd layer is aluminum foil (cooking foil))
then heat the front same way focusing on the open area 1min - low setting 4 min is high setting
around ~5min TOTAL leave the board alone for about another 45min (1hour) and dont touch it!
then go take off all the foils off carefully, reapply artic silver 5... do the x clamp fix and play!
Still confused?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 24, 2008, 02:01:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 10:22 PM)
ok i am obviously not understanding the basic concept here
first. FRONT SIDE. i cover just like the original pictures where just the RAM, GPU, CPU and ATA chip are visible. everything is convered in ALUMINUM FOIL
I heat the board on 150C for 1 minute going in small or big circles??????
Then I set it to 450+C and go in circles for 4 minutes. again, big or small circles?
is this where i wait 45 minutes for the Back side. Do i need to do back side?
where is the cold soder for the GPU thats causing 0022? on the front or on the back?
All of the board OR just the GPU to ANA chip area?
in regards to the xclamp can i just do the GPU and leave the xclamp on the CPU?
Most of this was covered in my first replies on the previous page so go back and read them!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=651407&st=135#
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=651407&st=150#
I am not gonna repeat that...
It pretty much doesnt matter how big the circles are and even if I would tell you big or small circles your definition of big and small would differ from mine so it would not be accurate enough...
Just make sure you dont keep the same spot under direct airflow for longer than 2 seconds because then you risk damaging it...
Keep the heatgun in a steady motion...
The cold solder joint that is causing it is somewhere in the area from the ANA chip to the GPU so concentrate on the whole GPU and the whole ana chip and the area in between.
Also do the back side to make sure that all the components below are good because this could also cause it...
*EDIT*
LOL at bosnia you posted your reply when I was setting mine up
Post by: cylent on July 24, 2008, 03:06:00 PM
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jul 1 2008, 11:32 PM)
Seriously, this trick is extremely easy. Cover everything besides the ram, cpu, and gpu with layers of thick plastic (try painting drop sheets) I then taped it down with electrical tape. Then layered the mobo with aluminium foil, make sure there are no holes or cracks onto (if heat gets in, it gets trapped). I heat gunned on the lowest setting for a minute then high for about three minutes (I began to hear a popping sound, and quickly stopped heating). I pulled away the layers and saw the plastic had shrunk onto the capacitors and other things you don't want heated up. I let it sit open for about an hour, came back put it back into metal cage booted up, worked perfectly -- still does (I didn't think it would work because I didn't see the solder turn yellow or golden brown, everything looked the same -- don't be too preoccupied on the actual appearance, just go for time heating)
Ok but you forgot to tell us. You did only the front? i assume only front cause you said you removed the protection and started it.
also, what error code did you get?
did you put the x-clamps back on or no -xclamps?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 24, 2008, 04:53:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 11:42 PM)
1) Ok but you forgot to tell us. You did only the front? i assume only front cause you said you removed the protection and started it.
2) also, what error code did you get?
3) did you put the x-clamps back on or no -xclamps?
First of all I have a question for you to answer: "Why do you ask us questions if you dont give a **** about our replies anyway?"
1) I am pretty sure he said if he did the top and bottom or not browse through all his replies
2) Same here , I am pretty sure he mentioned it, guess it was 0020 or 0022 but I am not sure as it happened 3 weeks ago
3) I already told you but another time, it is not smart to put the X-Clamps back on because they will break your 360 again after repairing it...
So either save the 2$ for the parts and risk breaking your console completely or do it properly...
Post by: cylent on July 24, 2008, 05:25:00 PM
I do listen ... I am glad he fixed his error.
I tried again after following steps from yourself and bosnia (back side first then 45 minute rest then front side -- GPU, ANA, and RAM) but i am STILL getting 0022.
I removed the x-clamp from the GPU only. so my CPU has x-clamp.
Unfortunately I am stationed oversees (in iraq) and i have no home depot or any store to get the necessary supplies.
i am just very frustrated.
Post by: RYU81 on July 24, 2008, 08:12:00 PM
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 03:12:00 AM
[edit] Now i am getting a 0020 really fast. as soon as the system boots up it immediately red lights into 0020.
when 0020 sometimes doesnt come up i get 0022[edit]
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 25, 2008, 04:29:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 25 2008, 11:48 AM)
[edit] Now i am getting a 0020 really fast. as soon as the system boots up it immediately red lights into 0020.
when 0020 sometimes doesnt come up i get 0022[edit]
Still the same problem 0020 is a short under the GPU/CPU/RAM and 0022 means that there is a short like for 0020 and additionally a fucked up connection to the scaler chip like 1022(E74)
As it seems that you have done pretty much everything except replacing the CPU X -Clamps there are only 2 more things you can attempt before buying a new mainboard...
1) Replacing the CPU X-Clamps as well as the 0020 might be caused by it...
2) If this doesnt work you will have to get your GPU reballed which is far higher than the costs of a new 360 and so not recommended...
*EDIT*
I just read your previous reply again and you said you only removed the X-Clamps...
Did you replace them with machines screws and washers like shown in the tutorials?
It cant work like that
Even though you are in Iraq it should not be that difficult and expensive to ship the necessary parts over since they would fit in a letter
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 25, 2008, 04:55:00 AM
QUOTE(RYU81 @ Jul 25 2008, 04:48 AM)
I reflow then I replace x-clamp still not fix it with error 0100 !! any help??
Did some reasearch on that and as I assumed it seems to be CPU/GPU/RAM related.
Grim187 posted on youtube that he fixed it with the usual methods(I guess he means the X-Clamp replacement and probably even the heatgun)
He is the only one who fixed it yet so send him a PM and ask him what he has done exactly...
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 05:57:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 24 2008, 08:01 PM)
http://index.php?showuser=342914, i am not asking questions without listening to your reply.
I do listen ... I am glad he fixed his error.
I tried again after following steps from yourself and bosnia (back side first then 45 minute rest then front side -- GPU, ANA, and RAM) but i am STILL getting 0022.
I removed the x-clamp from the GPU only. so my CPU has x-clamp.
Unfortunately I am stationed oversees (in iraq) and i have no home depot or any store to get the necessary supplies.
i am just very frustrated.
If you removed the X clamp from the GPU.. what did you use? You just left the heatsink sitting on top of the chip? You cant do that! you need some sort of pressure on it! And reason it doesnt work for you is because you keep using these x clamps ditch them
And here is the stuff on ebay, complete kit with screws and washers for 5$ plus shipping...
http://cgi.ebay.com/XBOX-360-Repair-Kit-Manual-X-Clamp-Fix-3-Red- Lights_W0QQitemZ250274687357QQihZ015QQcategoryZ139969QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcm
dZViewItem
any there is many more kits on ebay just do a search for "x-clamp fix"
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 25 2008, 05:48 AM)
[edit] Now i am getting a 0020 really fast. as soon as the system boots up it immediately red lights into 0020.
when 0020 sometimes doesnt come up i get 0022[edit]
Thats the exact same error i had and i fixed it, by doing heatgun (back/front) re apply thermal paste, and do the x clamp fix
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 06:32:00 AM
0020 means the GPU maybe getting insufficient power.
also
0020 means what Wilhelm_I had described.
so i did reheat the board again front and back (45 minutes rest in between)
one thing i can say is even though i am hitting the board with 500C (yes i did pre-heat) i am not seeing the solder balls even change color or even start to look like they melt. is that how its supposed to be?
i am focusing mainly on the areas with the solder balls cause i am simply not seeing the purpose of heating solder caps or the black chip (ANA) even though i did heat it.
in regards to the x-clamps;
i have a number 8 size machine screw plus four washers on each screw for the GPU ...
for the CPU i dont have enough .. i do however have rubber black washers (they are thicker than the nylon and 1 equals about two nylon washers). can i use those or do they have to be nylon?
i really am getting very discouraged here cause i keep working on this and i keep getting more and more errors.
i will try to find a way order those screws and washers from ebay unles i can use the rubber ones i currently have? pls advise.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 06:39:00 AM
You said your using some kind of washers.. i hope you know that you cant place metal washers directly on the motherboard? because it will short circuit the board, thats why they have the setup of
GPU Heatsink - metal washer - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - metal washer - screw
CPU Heatsink - metal washer - nylon washer - mobo - nylon washer - metal washer - screw
But in my setup i got rid of the metal washers all together because i get better contact by just using nylon and my board doesnt bend.
Also when your doing all this are you re applying thermal paste? and cleaning the old stuff off?
The gap between motherboard and heatsink (topside) is supposed to be ~2mm (nylon washer + metal washer =~2mm) so i guess as long as you can achieve that sort of gab its good, but you cant have metal washers on the motherboard there has to be something in between not to short it
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 10:18:00 AM
one quick question about the heat gun since i am new at this.
when blowing hot air should the AIR gauge be at 0 or high or medium?
yesterday i think i burned my heat gun by setting the air to 0 and the temp to 450. it literally caught on fire but i raised the air immediately and it was put out.
the heat gun still does work but i am afraid may have killed it OR made it unable to pump the correct heat.
pls advise.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 11:16:00 AM
With the heatgun i have i have 2 settings, one is like ~250C and then the other setting is like ~450-500C
In your case i guess you gotta put air through it so while your doing the 1 minute thing at first put out 0 air.. and once you step up the heat (2nd setting) put it to medium air
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 02:16:00 PM
I would like to show you the selection of screws i have.
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screwsandwashersvb2.jpg
i do have more of the black washers.
please advise which are best to use
also, here is the heatgun:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heatgunlk2.jpg
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 02:40:00 PM
and for washers (i dont know the thickness) use the rubber one for the contact on the motherboard for sure.
but in your case that might be enough because they could be thick enough..
and the washers id go with W1 but they look like the hole is too big for them while w3 is good but its got taht cut in the middle and if you could flatten that out.
like i said try and have ~2mm from the heatsink to the motherboard.
and then on the understand the same thing.
So
GPU heatsink - w1 or w3 (if you can flatten them out) - rubber - mobo - rubber - w1 or w3 - screw
CPU heatsink - w1 or w3 (if you can flatten them out) - rubber - mobo - rubber - w1 or w3 - screw
now you might have to play around with the washer setup, and for example use a washer on the top part but not on the bottom. But your gonna have to figure that out. main goal is when you put the motherboard back into the case and start tightening the screws not to BEND it when you palce it back into the case so that all the holes line up nicely.
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 04:07:00 PM
they fit in fine and i left about 2mm.
when i start it up it gives me 0020 still...
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 04:30:00 PM
any feedback? how can i get rid of this 0020 now?
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 04:45:00 PM
your washer set up looks good. let me ask you a few questions
did you remove those pads when you did the back off the motherboard? those 4 little sticky things?
do you re apply new paste everytime on the chips? And if so is it Artic Silver 5? Do you clean them good?
is your motherboard nice and even when you put it back in the case?
Try playing around with the washer set up, add more or remove all metals ones. also playing around with the tightness of the screws?
I dont know but those rubber washers seems to be squeshed pretty bad, maybe their not hard enough to keep the pressure? thats why people say use nylon because their solid.
Also look on one of these pages Wilhelm mentions using little pieces (credit card) on the corners of the chips to apply more pressure on the corners of the chip dye, that might help you too! its on page like 5-8? Take a look for it.
While doing the back focus on this area, and make sure you remove those sticky pads.
http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01019ie2ya6.jpg
Post by: RYU81 on July 25, 2008, 06:53:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 25 2008, 02:31 PM)
Did some reasearch on that and as I assumed it seems to be CPU/GPU/RAM related.
Grim187 posted on youtube that he fixed it with the usual methods(I guess he means the X-Clamp replacement and probably even the heatgun)
He is the only one who fixed it yet so send him a PM and ask him what he has done exactly...
I'll send PM.
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 26 2008, 03:21 AM)
did you remove those pads when you did the back off the motherboard? those 4 little sticky things?
Yes I removed the ram pads ...
do you re apply new paste everytime on the chips? And if so is it Artic Silver 5? Do you clean them good?
is your motherboard nice and even when you put it back in the case?
Yes I did clean the CPU and GPU real well. I used a formula called "YA XUN Precision Electronic Cleaning Solvent"
I did use Arctic silver 5.
Try playing around with the washer set up, add more or remove all metals ones. also playing around with the tightness of the screws?
Which ones? the GPU or CPU? i assume GPU because if CPU was wrong it would give TWO red lights. right?
I dont know but those rubber washers seems to be squeshed pretty bad, maybe their not hard enough to keep the pressure? thats why people say use nylon because their solid.
Ya the rubber ones are squishy but trust me they are a nice fit and they are keeping the screws from making contact with the board.
Also look on one of these pages Wilhelm mentions using little pieces (credit card) on the corners of the chips to apply more pressure on the corners of the chip dye, that might help you too! its on page like 5-8? Take a look for it.
I dont know exactly what you mean?
While doing the back focus on this area, and make sure you remove those sticky pads.
http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01019ie2ya6.jpg
ok so re-heat the area indicated you think ?
I actually dont think the screws are tight or loose because i was getting 0020 even with the x-clamp but i'll mess with the GPU screws again and see.
if that fails i'll reheat the indicated area (GPU, CPU and RAM) backside only?
please tell me backside only cause getting those screws on was sooo difficult
if this all fails again i am considering buying a new arcade system and i'll work on this for fun.
I want to get the new one with the falcon chip.
Does that also suffer from RROD?
pls advise.
Post by: hippodude100 on July 25, 2008, 07:03:00 PM
If you are looking at the front of the xbox.
Heat the gpu and when the front get loose ( solder balls)
Fix: Look at wich side the gpu maybe became loose.
Heat up the GPU and push the side that became loose slightly down so the balls reconnect.
maintain the position and let the gpu cool down.
DON'T PUSH TO HARD OR THE BALLS WILL BRIDGE !!
The reason why you got a 0020 is because the mobo has been bend to much.
So if you heat up the gpu again is wil disconnect and give you a 0020 again.
Possible fix is the x clamp that MAYBE force the mobo to get the correct shape.
This isn't easy and very easy to screw up, be very carefull
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 07:37:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 25 2008, 09:34 PM)
ok so re-heat the area indicated you think ?
I actually dont think the screws are tight or loose because i was getting 0020 even with the x-clamp but i'll mess with the GPU screws again and see.
if that fails i'll reheat the indicated area (GPU, CPU and RAM) backside only?
please tell me backside only cause getting those screws on was sooo difficult
if this all fails again i am considering buying a new arcade system and i'll work on this for fun.
I want to get the new one with the falcon chip.
Does that also suffer from RROD?
pls advise.
if you say the washers are good i believe you. Id say play with GPU washers first and see. The MAIN goal is to keep the motherboard leveled in the case but also maintain a nice and even contact on the chips!
about the thing with wilhelm and credit card, i looked for it myself i couldnt find it. but once he sees this i bet he will find the post but what is basically those pieces (look at pic) put pressure on the corners of the chips and make better contact which i think will help you a lot in your case. I know thats the cpu pictured but Wilhelm said to do it for both the cpu and gpu. and its very small like 1.5mmX1.5mm pieces cut off a credit card and you just put them on the corner and use like electrical tape/regular scotch tape and tape them down a bit and then put the heatsink over it. this way pressure gets put on the corners
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xclamp20047ih0.jpg
re heat back then front
about the screws this is how you put them on slide the screw through the hole with the washers on.. then take a piece of tape and just tape the head off on the bottom underside of motherboard it so the tape keeps the screw attached the motherboard (bottom) while you slide the heatsink and stuff over it
and then just take a screw driver poke through and start screwing them down falcon is NOT rrod proof, chances are it still might fail lol
also if you want you can take a look here http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/repair/ring_of_light_x-clamp_fix.htm
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 25 2008, 09:39 PM)
You get a 0020 when:
If you are looking at the front of the xbox.
Heat the gpu and when the front get loose ( solder balls)
Fix: Look at wich side the gpu maybe became loose.
Heat up the GPU and push the side that became loose slightly down so the balls reconnect.
maintain the position and let the gpu cool down.
DON'T PUSH TO HARD OR THE BALLS WILL BRIDGE !!
The reason why you got a 0020 is because the mobo has been bend to much.
So if you heat up the gpu again is wil disconnect and give you a 0020 again.
Possible fix is the x clamp that MAYBE force the mobo to get the correct shape.
This isn't easy and very easy to screw up, be very carefull
very good ideas, but also very dangerous touching the chips after you heat them, if your hand is not VERY steady you will cause damage and after that you can throw the motherboard out.
So i would NOT recommend touching anything after it was heated, let it cool off and then just apply the X CLAMP fix the proper way and hope for the best.
Post by: hippodude100 on July 25, 2008, 07:52:00 PM
Post by: cylent on July 25, 2008, 07:54:00 PM
but the electrical tape isnt that strong. its not exactly going to do a great job. that much i can say now.
i reheated it about 45 minutes ago (back side only) and its still giving me 0020.
in regards to me touching the GPU while its just heated i dont know.
i may do it considering the system is not working so what more can i lose?
now. you said the falcon is still suffering from the RROD? but my chances of getting RROD with falcon are less though ?
pls advise.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 25, 2008, 08:15:00 PM
you take a credit card.. cut a piece about 1.5mmX1.5mm and use another piece of 1.5mmX1.5mm electrical tape to tape it on the corner of the cpu and gpu to put pressure on it then put the heatsink over it.
the electrical tape is only there to hold the piece of credit card inplace.
your problem is on the front side.. thats where your gpu is probably coming off the solder balls. so keep heating the front too.
and like you said if have nothing to loose, might as well hit the front up and then apply some down pressure on your gpu to push it onto the board more.. but not a lot
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 26, 2008, 01:03:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 26 2008, 04:13 AM)
if you say the washers are good i believe you. Id say play with GPU washers first and see. The MAIN goal is to keep the motherboard leveled in the case but also maintain a nice and even contact on the chips!
about the thing with wilhelm and credit card, i looked for it myself i couldnt find it. but once he sees this i bet he will find the post but what is basically those pieces (look at pic) put pressure on the corners of the chips and make better contact which i think will help you a lot in your case. I know thats the cpu pictured but Wilhelm said to do it for both the cpu and gpu. and its very small like 1.5mmX1.5mm pieces cut off a credit card and you just put them on the corner and use like electrical tape/regular scotch tape and tape them down a bit and then put the heatsink over it. this way pressure gets put on the corners
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xclamp20047ih0.jpg
re heat back then front
about the screws this is how you put them on slide the screw through the hole with the washers on.. then take a piece of tape and just tape the head off on the bottom underside of motherboard it so the tape keeps the screw attached the motherboard (bottom) while you slide the heatsink and stuff over it
and then just take a screw driver poke through and start screwing them down falcon is NOT rrod proof, chances are it still might fail lol
also if you want you can take a look here http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/repair/ring_of_light_x-clamp_fix.htm
very good ideas, but also very dangerous touching the chips after you heat them, if your hand is not VERY steady you will cause damage and after that you can throw the motherboard out.
So i would NOT recommend touching anything after it was heated, let it cool off and then just apply the X CLAMP fix the proper way and hope for the best.
Argh you told them already I am still not completely finished with the tutorial, god dammit!
On the CPU you pretty much dont need it because of the heatsink which wont touch the corners...
If you want to put some there, only two in the center...
The GPU is more important though, do like 4 on each corner and 3 additional in the middle of each side(except where the 2nd GPU die is)
Post by: cylent on July 26, 2008, 03:35:00 PM
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 26 2008, 06:28 AM)
I should have mentioned this: heat up the GPU for 2 minutes, so it becomes soft. Do not heat it up more or the balls will get verry weak ( reflowing) and when touching it may slide and wreck the GPU.
so heat it for 2 minutes then push it in or just heat it for 2 mins and leave it?
cause i do have one side of the CPU thats visibly raised.
Post by: cylent on July 26, 2008, 04:24:00 PM
i did all four sides.
unfortunately in the process i broke off a few of those little caps (is that what they're called)?
now i am back to 0020
good news is the GPU heatsink is getting hot so i know its sorta of working.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 26, 2008, 05:05:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 27 2008, 01:00 AM)
ok i heated it for two minuters then i tried to push it in with a round screw driver. it did go in and i heard it making a snapping noise like it was going in.
i did all four sides.
unfortunately in the process i broke off a few of those little caps (is that what they're called)?
now i am back to 0020
good news is the GPU heatsink is getting hot so i know its sorta of working.
Hmmm breaking some of these off can cause the ROD and 0020..
I remember a dude who cut one of these caps on the GPU that has the 8 little contacts, he got it after that...
Take a picture of the part...
Post by: cylent on July 26, 2008, 06:22:00 PM
i'll tell you now that one of the caps got smashed (literally) and another cracked
i am literally done with this board.
trash.
one quick question;
can you use a 203 power brick on a falcon board? (falcon boards being 175w)
Post by: hippodude100 on July 26, 2008, 06:44:00 PM
just hot enough so that when you press gently they will go down.How hard did you press s othat the caps broke ? :s
try pushing with something that has a larger surface, I use a solder pump
I have a broken mobo , tell me from where you are so maybe I can send them to you
Post by: cylent on July 27, 2008, 01:07:00 AM
you guys are really optimistic
i used a screw driver with a round end (forgot what they call it)
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 03:14:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 27 2008, 02:58 AM)
i cant take a good clear picture cause my camera cant zoom that far on the GPU and still be clear.
i'll tell you now that one of the caps got smashed (literally) and another cracked
i am literally done with this board.
trash.
one quick question;
can you use a 203 power brick on a falcon board? (falcon boards being 175w)
Yes you can, just not the other way around(like a falcon PSU with an old 360)
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 27 2008, 03:20 AM)
The 2 minutes aren't exactly
just hot enough so that when you press gently they will go down.How hard did you press s othat the caps broke ? :s
try pushing with something that has a larger surface, I use a solder pump
I have a broken mobo , tell me from where you are so maybe I can send them to you
Yep you need like 4 minutes...
Same here, could send you the whole GPU of my broken mainboard if you like
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 27 2008, 09:43 AM)
so even though i smashed the GPU caps you think its still fixable?
you guys are really optimistic
i used a screw driver with a round end (forgot what they call it)
Everything is fixable with the right tools lol
Sometimes it is just not worth it.
Only try to replace the thing on the GPU if this doesnt fix it you will have to get a new GPU and this isnt worth it because the repair is more expensive than a new mainboard...
Post by: hippodude100 on July 27, 2008, 06:12:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 27 2008, 11:50 AM)
Yes you can, just not the other way around(like a falcon PSU with an old 360)
Yep you need like 4 minutes...
mhhhhh 4 minutes isn't that a little to much, if you press it down after 4 minutes doesn't the gpu start sliding ?
It seems to me that the solder is to weak after 4 minutes, but then again it could be because I have a other heatgun.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 06:26:00 AM
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 27 2008, 02:48 PM)
mhhhhh 4 minutes isn't that a little to much, if you press it down after 4 minutes doesn't the gpu start sliding ?
It seems to me that the solder is to weak after 4 minutes, but then again it could be because I have a other heatgun.
Yes it does, thats why you are not supposed to touch it at all lol
You reflow the solder balls to give them their old form back(get rid of the cracks, reconnnect them)
If you press it down you will flatten the solder balls below or it will become uneven so that the heatsinks doesnt fit properly on the chip anymore...
*EDIT*
Now I get what you mean, you mean that he can replace the cap on the GPU like that, dont you?
Yes then you should heat it up for that long, even less than 2 minutes might be enough.
I still dont recommend it though since the RAM bricks are loose at this point already and if you move the mainboard around you risk that they get loose and then you are fucked
Just using two soldering irons at once is a better option
Post by: hippodude100 on July 27, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
If there is a air gap between the ball and gpu the reflowing doesn't always bridges the gap.
If you heat it up and press it down it WILL.
Then with a good old x clamp it can stay fixed for a time. don't know how long since it hasn't broken down yet
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 08:16:00 AM
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 27 2008, 04:33 PM)
No what I mean is that the reflow doesn't always work.
If there is a air gap between the ball and gpu the reflowing doesn't always bridges the gap.
If you heat it up and press it down it WILL.
Then with a good old x clamp it can stay fixed for a time. don't know how long since it hasn't broken down yet
If the reflow doesnt work anymore you will have to reball.
And this is simply just not true: "If there is a air gap between the ball and gpu the reflowing doesn't always bridges the gap."
The solder balls always have the exact same height and this gap can only be created by pressing it down(the way you want to fix it
) because the height of all the solder balls isnt the same anymore..."Then with a good old x clamp it can stay fixed for a time. don't know how long since it hasn't broken down yet
"Using the X-Clamp afterwards is as always one of the worst things you can do since the flexing will cause it to break again...
It is not necessary to press the GPU down you will only risk that the GPU will move away or the solder balls flatten so much that they short the ones around them out...
If anyone feels free to try that do it only as a last attempt to get the 360 back to work.
In case some people can confirm that this revived their 360s I am taking it back but this method is very risky and the success you had with it is based on pure luck...
Post by: hippodude100 on July 27, 2008, 08:53:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 27 2008, 04:52 PM)
If the reflow doesnt work anymore you will have to reball.
And this is simply just not true: "If there is a air gap between the ball and gpu the reflowing doesn't always bridges the gap."
The solder balls always have the exact same height and this gap can only be created by pressing it down(the way you want to fix it
) because the height of all the solder balls isnt the same anymore..."Then with a good old x clamp it can stay fixed for a time. don't know how long since it hasn't broken down yet
"Using the X-Clamp afterwards is as always one of the worst things you can do since the flexing will cause it to break again...
It is not necessary to press the GPU down you will only risk that the GPU will move away or the solder balls flatten so much that they short the ones around them out...
If anyone feels free to try that do it only as a last attempt to get the 360 back to work.
In case some people can confirm that this revived their 360s I am taking it back but this method is very risky and the success you had with it is based on pure luck...
first I have the correct the x clamp I forgot to put the fix after it
I didn't used the orginal x clamp.The method is risky I know, but since your heat gun tutorial didn't work on this mobo because.
The GPU won't slide away since it isn't heated enough to reflow, but enough to bend and stay in place.
I can confirm that it revived already one xbox , mine
Post by: sssgsm on July 27, 2008, 09:17:00 AM
Any idea to fix. I have Error 0003 and I can see how some balls isn't contacting with the motherboard.
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0147mq3.jpg
I'd tried reflowing (1 minute 250º , 4 minutes 480º, 1 minute 250º and cool) but gravity doesn't fix. I'd been heating the board downside with 100W infrared lamp during process. At this point I only have a question do you use any type of air nozzle? or you use this directly.
Thanks and excuse me by my bad English.
Post by: hippodude100 on July 27, 2008, 09:55:00 AM
apparently willhelm's reflow doesn't always work. If you tried everything, try heating it up a bit, +- 2 minutes and then press down gently on the side that doesn't touch anymore.
let it cool and do the x clamp fix so the mobo doesn't disconnect the balls anymore.
Goodluck
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 27, 2008, 10:15:00 AM
QUOTE(sssgsm @ Jul 27 2008, 11:53 AM)
Hi, I have a big problem for reflow. My CPU have moved up a corner (right corner in the image).
Any idea to fix. I have Error 0003 and I can see how some balls isn't contacting with the motherboard.
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0147mq3.jpg
I'd tried reflowing (1 minute 250º , 4 minutes 480º, 1 minute 250º and cool) but gravity doesn't fix. I'd been heating the board downside with 100W infrared lamp during process. At this point I only have a question do you use any type of air nozzle? or you use this directly.
Thanks and excuse me by my bad English.
I would say try to flow all of the solder balls at once on the CPU. That way, if they all flow the chip will hopefully realign itself using surface tension. And yours caps looks really swelled.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 12:38:00 PM
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 27 2008, 05:29 PM)
first I have the correct the x clamp I forgot to put the fix after it
I didn't used the orginal x clamp.The method is risky I know, but since your heat gun tutorial didn't work on this mobo because.
The GPU won't slide away since it isn't heated enough to reflow, but enough to bend and stay in place.
I can confirm that it revived already one xbox , mine
Ye this is exactly what I was talking about if the 360 is already broken because the chip isnt even anymore this is the last resort besides reballing the chip completely
QUOTE(sssgsm @ Jul 27 2008, 05:53 PM)
Hi, I have a big problem for reflow. My CPU have moved up a corner (right corner in the image).
Any idea to fix. I have Error 0003 and I can see how some balls isn't contacting with the motherboard.
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0147mq3.jpg
I'd tried reflowing (1 minute 250º , 4 minutes 480º, 1 minute 250º and cool) but gravity doesn't fix. I'd been heating the board downside with 100W infrared lamp during process. At this point I only have a question do you use any type of air nozzle? or you use this directly.
Thanks and excuse me by my bad English.
Looks like weve got another candidate what an irony...
Follow hippodude's advice heat the thing up for two minutes, then try to push the corner down with something(ask him what he used, probably a screw driver or so...)
QUOTE(hippodude100 @ Jul 27 2008, 06:31 PM)
That excatcly what I had, when you reflowd some of the balls didnt connect and didn't reflow properly.
apparently willhelm's reflow doesn't always work. If you tried everything, try heating it up a bit, +- 2 minutes and then press down gently on the side that doesn't touch anymore.
let it cool and do the x clamp fix so the mobo doesn't disconnect the balls anymore.
Goodluck
What did you use to push it down gently, obviously not your hands...
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 27 2008, 06:51 PM)
I would say try to flow all of the solder balls at once on the CPU. That way, if they all flow the chip will hopefully realign itself using surface tension. And yours caps looks really swelled.
Hmm I just recognized he did it from the bottom only hmm ye actually he should try that first.
First try to heatgun the top, gravity should really fix it when the solder melts, you should blow the air at it from the corner where it is lifted up then the solder balls on this side melt first and the chip should slowly move downwards till it is back in place...
If you do it from the other side you will risk that the whole chip goes down at the same time which might result in a disaster...
Post by: sssgsm on July 27, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
I reflowed again 1 minute 250ºC, 4 minutes 480ºC, 1 minute 250ºC after cooling
when I reached 480ºC, I tried to push the coner after 2, 3, and 4 minutes but it is hard.
I have a AOYUE 2702 reworking station.
What is better slow circle movement or medium velocity. I'm not sure if I doing to fast the movement.
What can you said me about AIR PRESSURE. I'm trying about 50 % of pressure.
Any idea?
Thanks
Post by: KrInEn on July 27, 2008, 02:15:00 PM
3 0020's
1 0102
2 0022's
Thanks a lot for this
A little off topic but how do you like that reworking station, Honestly I was just looking at the same one. Can you shoot me a pm and let me know where you got it and about how much you payed?
Thanks again
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 02:33:00 PM
QUOTE(sssgsm @ Jul 27 2008, 10:28 PM)
I think I have doing some wrong. It's the first time I reflowed a XBOX and I haven`t skill.
I reflowed again 1 minute 250ºC, 4 minutes 480ºC, 1 minute 250ºC after cooling
when I reached 480ºC, I tried to push the coner after 2, 3, and 4 minutes but it is hard.
I have a AOYUE 2702 reworking station.
What is better slow circle movement or medium velocity. I'm not sure if I doing to fast the movement.
What can you said me about AIR PRESSURE. I'm trying about 50 % of pressure.
Any idea?
Thanks
Guess you will have to heat it up for a bit longer then at 480°C the 2 minutes are meant for heatgunning 2 minutes at 500°C, so try heating it up for longer at 480°C.
The solder wasnt soft enough yet....
QUOTE(KrInEn @ Jul 27 2008, 10:51 PM)
Yet again another sucess using this method. Here is the Master list of repairs with the heat gun and plastic foil fix:
3 0020's
1 0102
2 0022's
Thanks a lot for this
A little off topic but how do you like that reworking station, Honestly I was just looking at the same one. Can you shoot me a pm and let me know where you got it and about how much you payed?
Thanks again
Nice to hear that am glad it is helping you, 0022s are a pain in the arse...
Post by: hippodude100 on July 27, 2008, 02:49:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 27 2008, 09:14 PM)
What did you use to push it down gently, obviously not your hands...
I pressed the two corners to be more stable, I used a screwdriver and a solder pump
But I would change that to two screw drivers or something with a larger surface.
If you have to press to hard to get the gpu down and stay down heat it up some more.
Heat it up in step en try pushing, dont overheat or the gpu will slide and you are screwed
Post by: cylent on July 27, 2008, 05:35:00 PM
i had another xbox that i sold to a friend of mine.
a couple days ago he told me he started to get the RROD...
aparently he had been playing the unit in a very heated environment....
i got the unit today and it appeared to jump from 0022 and 0102.
i decided to pop it open and heat it up.
i cleaned the GPU & CPU ... removed the xclamps then started the heating process.
I started with the front side.
put the heatgun on half way for air and about 350C for heat. started going in circles between the GPU and the ANA chip for about 1 minute.
I then raised the heat to 480C and continued for another 3 minutes. raised it to 500C for another minute.
What i did now is not something ya'll will be proud of but it worked for me.
i needed a way to push the GPU on the board so i needed something flat and even.
I grabed the GPU heatsink and put it in its holes then pressed it on the GPU very hard. i wanted the GPU to get in as much as possible.
at this time I left the unit for about an hour ...
came back and decided it was time to do the same procedure for the back side.
again just focusing on the GPU + ANA chip with the same temperature settings as above.
Unfortunately I dont have the washers to apply the no-xclamp so i had to put them back
having had such bad luck with my last board i decided to assemble the board into the case and if it doesnt work i was going to do the towel method.
Lo and Behold. GREEN LIGHTS. XBOX BOOTED. I was sooo happy.
Played some soccer with friends for an hour and gave the unit to my buddy ... i believe he's playing GTA4 on it now.
I really hope it runs ok although i have my doubts consider it has the xclamps but if it breaks again i'll remove them...
oh and one last thing, i cut out four 1.3mm rubber erasers and put them on the back of the board on the ram chips between the metal case and board. i dont know how much it helps but i figured why not. (credits go to this guy: http://www.eurasia.nu/wiki/index.php?pagename=Xbox360EraserFixError0102)
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 27, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 27 2008, 08:11 PM)
good news.
i had another xbox that i sold to a friend of mine.
a couple days ago he told me he started to get the RROD...
aparently he had been playing the unit in a very heated environment....
i got the unit today and it appeared to jump from 0022 and 0102.
i decided to pop it open and heat it up.
i cleaned the GPU & CPU ... removed the xclamps then started the heating process.
I started with the front side.
put the heatgun on half way for air and about 350C for heat. started going in circles between the GPU and the ANA chip for about 1 minute.
I then raised the heat to 480C and continued for another 3 minutes. raised it to 500C for another minute.
What i did now is not something ya'll will be proud of but it worked for me.
i needed a way to push the GPU on the board so i needed something flat and even.
I grabed the GPU heatsink and put it in its holes then pressed it on the GPU very hard. i wanted the GPU to get in as much as possible.
at this time I left the unit for about an hour ...
came back and decided it was time to do the same procedure for the back side.
again just focusing on the GPU + ANA chip with the same temperature settings as above.
Unfortunately I dont have the washers to apply the no-xclamp so i had to put them back
having had such bad luck with my last board i decided to assemble the board into the case and if it doesnt work i was going to do the towel method.
Lo and Behold. GREEN LIGHTS. XBOX BOOTED. I was sooo happy.
Played some soccer with friends for an hour and gave the unit to my buddy ... i believe he's playing GTA4 on it now.
I really hope it runs ok although i have my doubts consider it has the xclamps but if it breaks again i'll remove them...
oh and one last thing, i cut out four 1.3mm rubber erasers and put them on the back of the board on the ram chips between the metal case and board. i dont know how much it helps but i figured why not.
glad to hear you got atleast one xbox working! yah if you can get those x clamps off asap and do the xclamp fix on your buddies xbox because it will probably fail down the road.
too bad you havnt achieved anything with yours.
and never NEVER do the towel trick.. that does more damage than good. After towel trick if your xbox is works be happy play while you can because next time it breaks its done.
Post by: cylent on July 27, 2008, 06:35:00 PM
my friend was just telling me the unit froze once during a game and also will red light IF a cd is in the drive.
also noted that it takes a long time to start. it would just sit there on one green light then boot .. like 5 mins
also tells me that it now red lights .. he keeps turning off and on and sometimes it works.
hmm...
guess i have to do the xclamp fix with my rubber washers
also whats the easy way to lock the fans on high speed? when i did the repairs earlier everytime i touched the gpu and cpu heatsinks they were amazingly hot.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 27, 2008, 08:09:00 PM
Yah take your buddies xbox back, do a heat gun.. back/front.. replace those ugly x clamps with some washers and screws
put new artic silver 5 on and play some xbox you seem to be getting the hand of this lol, just that you only heatgunned one side so thats where your problem is most likely, do both sides, new thermal compound, toss the x clamps out and get that washers/screws stuff.. i think i gave you a link on ebay for it. If you guys have a few xboxes and all chip in and get 3-4 kits you can get cheaper shipping, i mean it comes to 7$ with shipping if you just get one kit which is cheap!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 28, 2008, 01:48:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 28 2008, 04:45 AM)
well if their really hot thats good, means heat is getting passed on them. I think the easiest way to make the fans go faster (12v) is by soldering it to a 12v point on the underside of the motherboard by the power source right underneath it. I did it on mine and works great..
Yah take your buddies xbox back, do a heat gun.. back/front.. replace those ugly x clamps with some washers and screws
put new artic silver 5 on and play some xbox you seem to be getting the hand of this lol, just that you only heatgunned one side so thats where your problem is most likely, do both sides, new thermal compound, toss the x clamps out and get that washers/screws stuff.. i think i gave you a link on ebay for it. If you guys have a few xboxes and all chip in and get 3-4 kits you can get cheaper shipping, i mean it comes to 7$ with shipping if you just get one kit which is cheap!
Ye but 12V is kind of loud, you should take the noise though for the extra cooling because you are in iraq, it is summer and the 360 is boiling...
Even new 360s will break in no time over there...
The 1 red light thingy sounds like 1 red light and E74, concentrate on the hana chip and the GPU(area in between as well)
As bosnia said first do the bottom then wait 45 minutes, isolate it and do the top again...
Id recommend that you dont do any of the fixes that work by flexing the mainboard anymore(x-clamp or eraser/penny fix)
Only do the X-Clamp replacement and dont tighten the screws too much because the mainboard will flex as well then...
Post by: cylent on July 28, 2008, 03:47:00 AM
and also you dont want me pushing the GPU in using the heatsink?
i admit the first time i did it i used some thermal grease (no name brand) because my as5 is running out.
guys. i dont understand how to do the fan modification. can you please point me to a picture thread or a tutorial?
"Even new 360s will break in no time over there..."
why would you say that? its not like living here now is any worse. being in texas OR nevada is equivelant. NV or TX are hotter!
by the way i want your feedback on this; some french guy suggested i put EPOXY gel on the corners of the Chips on the board. What do you think?
i found the link to these images on some arabic xbox thread.
the pictures have french wording so i had to use a translator.
pls advise
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 06:02:00 AM
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=467270
and one you have 1 wire coming off the fans solder it to any of these yellow points
Post by: hippodude100 on July 28, 2008, 08:09:00 AM
Some CPU have alreaddy expoy around them, but it gets so hot the the epoxy becomes weak and doesn't keep it in place
Not sure about the ram bricks but they get hot to soo... dono it could help but I won't count on
For the fan: cut the red and brown fire of the fans and solder the 2 to the 12V (yellow points on the pic above me).
It isn't hard, you can leave the blue and black wire intact.
I cutted the black and blue one to, its more work with no gain a stupid mistake of me .
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 08:13:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 28, 2008, 09:06:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 28 2008, 12:23 PM)
So you dont want me to put the rubber eraser on the back of the ram chips? leave them naked?
and also you dont want me pushing the GPU in using the heatsink?
i admit the first time i did it i used some thermal grease (no name brand) because my as5 is running out.
guys. i dont understand how to do the fan modification. can you please point me to a picture thread or a tutorial?
"Even new 360s will break in no time over there..."
why would you say that? its not like living here now is any worse. being in texas OR nevada is equivelant. NV or TX are hotter!
by the way i want your feedback on this; some french guy suggested i put EPOXY gel on the corners of the Chips on the board. What do you think?
i found the link to these images on some arabic xbox thread.
the pictures have french wording so i had to use a translator.
pls advise
DONT PUT ANYTHING ON THERE, just leave them naked!
If you want to prelong your 360s life you dont put anything there!
Post by: cylent on July 28, 2008, 10:00:00 AM
i heated the board again and i i did the xclamp fix + i used as5.
booted the system, started playing GTA4 for like 5 mins and then screen froze (it got all messed up)
it gave me code 0020 and 0022
it wouldnt even boot anymore.
so i took it back to the heatgun again. i just finished doing the front side and will do the backside in 10 mins.
is this a ram heat issue or my GPU?
on a side note i am noticing the CPU heatsink is VERY VERY hot to the touch. (yes i did put as5 on that too)
the fans seem to be blowsing air at a very low temp for some reason.
on my other board i noticed my local repair guy raised the temperature by soldering a point or two on the back of the board. he would not tell me which. anyone know?
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 10:14:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 28 2008, 12:36 PM)
i noticed my local repair guy raised the temperature by soldering a point or two on the back of the board. he would not tell me which. anyone know?
dude i have been extremely nice to you and maybe others here have repeated themselves numerous times explaining the same thing over and over to you again.
ABOUT YOUR F**ING solder points.. look at the damn picture i have posted at the top of PAGE 15.. which is this page were are ON NOW.. I CLEARLY TOLD YOU USE THE YELLOW POINT TO GET THE 12V and yet you ask again what point to use..
Your not getting anymore help from me... once you start reading about peoples answers to your previous question maybe ill give you mroe help. This way we wont have to repeat ourselves or go through the same crap over and over again.
Post by: cylent on July 28, 2008, 10:35:00 AM
that was completely unexpected
I DID read what you posted and i have seen the method you are referring to.
I am just saying he has another way instead of clipping a 5th wire in and soldering it to the board.
thanks anyhow.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 10:43:00 AM
you take brown and red cut them, join them together and then join a 3rd wire to that.. so technically you have 2 wires in the plug like normal (blue and black) leave those intact and where they are.. and just 1 extra wire (the one that joined to the red/brown) going into underneath the motherboard where you get the 12v from...
Post by: cylent on July 28, 2008, 02:21:00 PM
i am sorry i got you upset.
i did get the fan working per your instructions. so thank you.
i am really frustrated.
currently i lost one board and now i have another thats jumping between 0102 and 0022 and even 0020. I know this thread has been through all these methods to fixing them but i am doing them all and i am just not having any luck.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 02:31:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 28 2008, 04:57 PM)
bosnia,
i am sorry i got you upset.
i did get the fan working per your instructions. so thank you.
i am really frustrated.
currently i lost one board and now i have another thats jumping between 0102 and 0022 and even 0020. I know this thread has been through all these methods to fixing them but i am doing them all and i am just not having any luck.
glad you got the fans working, well i had 0020 and 0102 and i resolved that by doing the steps mentioned here. I dont know if your doing something wrong or what but 0102 is fairly simple to fix.
Maybe you should try and play around with your washer setup and see if your making good contact on the chips.
If you apply new AS5 and run the xbox.. once you take the heatsinks off, do you see a nice imprint of the thermal paste on the heatsinks? like it should be square and look like the chips..
Post by: cylent on July 28, 2008, 05:22:00 PM
on back i focused on RAM, GPU, CPU and ANA
Same on front
all i get now is 0102 and then if 0102 doesnt appear i get 0022 sometimes.
does 0102 supercede 0022? i am asking this cause that maybe why i am not seeing 0022 cause 0102 is higher in the chain
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 28, 2008, 08:51:00 PM
like in my case i dont have metal washers at all im only using nylon washers on both the gpu and cpu..
cause i mean this is the 2nd xbox and your not getting it to work.. im guessing it must be the washers or something thats not working out for you..
are the heatsinks making contact with the chips?? When you run the xbox for a bit and take the heatsink off do you see a impront of the thermal compound on the heatsink? As in does it leave a shape of the cpu on it?
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 02:43:00 AM
"cause i mean this is the 2nd xbox and your not getting it to work.. im guessing it must be the washers or something thats not working out for you.."
this is the 2nd box i am working on that broke.
it now has the 12v fan which is wonderful. only if it works!
"are the heatsinks making contact with the chips?? When you run the xbox for a bit and take the heatsink off do you see a impront of the thermal compound on the heatsink? As in does it leave a shape of the cpu on it?"
Yes. they are making great contact. When i remove them i see the imprints for the two GPU blocks and for the CPU one imprint.
right now though i am getting the dreaded 0022.
i spent last night for like 7 mins doing it like so
1 minute preheat
3 minute on 450C
3 min on 515C
going on RAM - GPU, ANA and CPU
front and bottom.
i just dont get iti plan on practicing on my broken board and hitting it with 515C (highest on my heatgun) with little air to see if i can get the solder balls to even change color
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 03:49:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 29 2008, 11:19 AM)
the washer setup is correct just like how it worked the first time.
"cause i mean this is the 2nd xbox and your not getting it to work.. im guessing it must be the washers or something thats not working out for you.."
this is the 2nd box i am working on that broke.
it now has the 12v fan which is wonderful. only if it works!
"are the heatsinks making contact with the chips?? When you run the xbox for a bit and take the heatsink off do you see a impront of the thermal compound on the heatsink? As in does it leave a shape of the cpu on it?"
Yes. they are making great contact. When i remove them i see the imprints for the two GPU blocks and for the CPU one imprint.
right now though i am getting the dreaded 0022.
i spent last night for like 7 mins doing it like so
1 minute preheat
3 minute on 450C
3 min on 515C
going on RAM - GPU, ANA and CPU
front and bottom.
i just dont get iti plan on practicing on my broken board and hitting it with 515C (highest on my heatgun) with little air to see if i can get the solder balls to even change color
Do 1 minute preheat
Then do 4 minutes on 515°C!(my heatgun is running at 500°C and it always worked for me)
And concentrate on GPU and ANA chip only, thats where the problem is...
I cant be arsed to explain the rest another time cause I told you several times already so browse through the last 2 pages and you will find what you need...
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 04:48:00 AM
I do know the procedure and i am doing it per your directions!
on the back i am concentrating on the GPU and ANA chip (plus whats in between them) ... theres a section of like 12 solder balls near the ANA chip. I go in circles in that area hoping even one of them would even start to change color or appear to melt but no.
When i hold my heat gun (which reads 500C on the reader) to a roll of solder it melts it instantly. (not on the motherboard)
if i hold my heatgun to a piece of paper it burns it instantly
so why do these solder balls on the motherboard not show any sign of weakness?
is my gun not giving out the right amount of heat?
I honestly dont know and am as much pissed as you are re-answering my questions
Post by: randon_i_am on July 29, 2008, 05:14:00 AM
just keep going at it and play around with the washer count.
i use 2 * 1mm thick washers in between the mobo and heatsinks, and with a 2mm spacer (2*1mm washers) you can get a good tightness on your screws and your not putting too much preasure on the chips
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 05:47:00 AM
even if i put the xclamps on i still get the same issue.
the xclamps have the pressure already adjusted.
i left it off for one hour.
i turn it on now and its reading 0102
wtf!!!
an hour ago it was 0022
now its 0102
is it pointless now to keep trying?Post by: chain082007 on July 29, 2008, 06:05:00 AM
i also have the 0022 on my box , and i have followed the said procedure for it....i have done the xclamp fix also
after all that i am still getting 0022...when i power on my box it gives me this error after few seconds.
regards
chain
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 06:05:00 AM
either the washers need some playing around with or your heatgun is not working as it should and not putting out the right heat or something. 0102 is the simple error lol 0022 is just a broken solder joint..
so doing heatgunning will fix both problems, so i dont understand why you still cant get it.
can you get hold of another heat gun? those exact washers?
i guess you have to keep playing around with the GPU side, because thats where it is, also did you try that credit card pressure thing?
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 06:14:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 29 2008, 04:41 PM)
did you maybe think about ordering those exact washers ? as stated in some previous post?
either the washers need some playing around with or your heatgun is not working as it should and not putting out the right heat or something. 0102 is the simple error lol 0022 is just a broken solder joint..
so doing heatgunning will fix both problems, so i dont understand why you still cant get it.
can you get hold of another heat gun? those exact washers?
i guess you have to keep playing around with the GPU side, because thats where it is, also did you try that credit card pressure thing?
either the washers need some playing around with or your heatgun is not working as it should and not putting out the right heat or something. 0102 is the simple error lol 0022 is just a broken solder joint..
so doing heatgunning will fix both problems, so i dont understand why you still cant get it.
can you get hold of another heat gun? those exact washers?
i guess you have to keep playing around with the GPU side, because thats where it is, also did you try that credit card pressure thing?
yes i do suspect heat gun.. in the meantime i'll try again.
tell me again pls cause everywhere i look someone describes the error different
for 0102 i heatgun everything? CPU, GPU RAM and ANA (and southbridge)?
for 0022 i know its between GPU and ANA
thanks
Post by: randon_i_am on July 29, 2008, 06:26:00 AM
i was playing around with an xbox (had to fix E79... x-clamp removal, AS5 paste, hot air re-flow)
fixxed up that alright no worries. so i moved on to 9v the fans, (i havnt done this befor if anyone knows a better place to get the 3.3v from let me know, i got it from under the network cable port. and bypassed the transistors adj the fan plug for 12v.
power it up to test if the 9v works... 0020... not the outcome i was hoping for. unplug the fans WORKS FINE, plug them in 0020.
so it would seem at this point that the 0020 is from lack of power (which we already had a feeling it was).
all the time i am using a RIP-OFF power supply, some no name hong kong rip off from ebay, which i though was suspect, so i change to M$ power supply, and everything works with the fans plugged in, change back to hong kong rip off 0020.
so it is now proven in my mind that 0020 is DEFINITELY a lack of power, but to what?
makes me think that because i got the 3.3v from the network/usb port on the back that it has some thing to do with whatever runs those circuits...
im not deniying that it isnt a short in the GPU/CPU/RAM because 0020 is so closely related to 0022
a short somewhere would explain why there is a lack of power i guess anyway
just rambling on here trying to make sense of these 0020 and 0022 errors that so many ppl are having troubles with
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 06:30:00 AM
cylent: you focusing on the right parts. CPU, GPU RAM and ANA
you seem to be doing it right.
what about odering new washers and stuff?
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 06:33:00 AM
well for my 12v fan mod i did the following:
i cut red and brown and joined them together then i joined a new piece to the red brown i just linked and ran that new piece to one of the yellow spots in the picture below:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/RDCXBG/PWRConnector.jpg
in regards to lack of power because of power supply? i dont know. isnt that what the power adapter is supposed to? regulate power to the xbox and not starve it?
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 06:59:00 AM
note: the white stuff is generic grease that the repair guy had put in ... i dont think its harmful in anyway. or is it?
i was going to clearn it up by spraying electronic cleaning solvent.
i was told it was ok to spray it all over the board.
please advise.
http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boardzout2ky4.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpuzinda0.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpuzintq4.jpg
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 07:18:00 AM
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29072008039yo0.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29072008040dp2.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29072008041ug0.jpg
note: i went back and cleaned the white grease off of the board.
Gpu on the other hand has that grey/brownish stuff and i dont want to scrape anything off too scared i may scratch something
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 08:21:00 AM
you dont have to do both start with just the gpu and see how it goes...
Might want to use a bit of tape just to keep the pieces there in place..
*** Just wait a few days if you cant do it or dont know, Wilhelm_I has a great new tutorial coming out for fixing these errors! So stay tuned ~3days.***
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29072008041ug0qd3.jpg
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 08:40:00 AM
QUOTE(randon_i_am @ Jul 29 2008, 03:02 PM)
i just found out some thing very interesting.
i was playing around with an xbox (had to fix E79... x-clamp removal, AS5 paste, hot air re-flow)
fixxed up that alright no worries. so i moved on to 9v the fans, (i havnt done this befor if anyone knows a better place to get the 3.3v from let me know, i got it from under the network cable port. and bypassed the transistors adj the fan plug for 12v.
power it up to test if the 9v works... 0020... not the outcome i was hoping for. unplug the fans WORKS FINE, plug them in 0020.
so it would seem at this point that the 0020 is from lack of power (which we already had a feeling it was).
all the time i am using a RIP-OFF power supply, some no name hong kong rip off from ebay, which i though was suspect, so i change to M$ power supply, and everything works with the fans plugged in, change back to hong kong rip off 0020.
so it is now proven in my mind that 0020 is DEFINITELY a lack of power, but to what?
makes me think that because i got the 3.3v from the network/usb port on the back that it has some thing to do with whatever runs those circuits...
im not deniying that it isnt a short in the GPU/CPU/RAM because 0020 is so closely related to 0022
a short somewhere would explain why there is a lack of power i guess anyway
just rambling on here trying to make sense of these 0020 and 0022 errors that so many ppl are having troubles with
Well there is a simple answer for that you are right and I never denied that it can happen when you draw too much power from the CPU/GPU/RAM if you read the last 16 pages of this thread you will find at least 3 of my posts which contain that.
However it can for sure also be caused by a bridged solder joint under GPU, RAM or under the solder balls of the CPU which lead to the GPU.
I had 2 360s so far that had completely shorted out RAM(I fucked the first one up myself because the isolation lifted a brick up and the second time it was a 360 I bought on Ebay which was heatgunned by the seller and 2 ram chips had flat solder joints...)
@chain:
What exactly did you do describe it a little bit better and include every detail that might even be unnecessary, borwse the last 2 pages for all the questions we asked cylent and answer all of these!
It worked for all 3 of my 0022s so you might have done anything wrong...
@cylent:
I always have the same problem like you, because you dont really know when the solder melted..
Dont worry it does melt even though you cant see it!
As long as you take care of the instructions we gave you you can be sure it melted.
The fact that it burns paper and melts the other solder pretty much confirms that(mine does this as well)
When it changes the color it is already a bit too late because flux is leaking out of the solder...
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 11:06:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 29 2008, 06:57 PM)
*** Just wait a few days if you cant do it or dont know, Wilhelm_I has a great new tutorial coming out for fixing these errors! So stay tuned ~3days.***
can you give us a hint pls? does it have anything to do with a heatgun? if not then i wont go trying to find a new one ...
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 11:49:00 AM
but im saying try that credit card thing in the meantime
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 12:29:00 PM
what sorta of glue or forumla can i use to stick a heatsink to the ram chips?
i have a few heatsinks from old motherboards i can for sure use on the 360 board but i dont know how to stick them on and i sure as hell dont want use superglue. or should i?
thanks
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 12:57:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 29 2008, 03:05 PM)
this one is offtopic but i didnt want to create a new thread since its an easy one.
what sorta of glue or forumla can i use to stick a heatsink to the ram chips?
i have a few heatsinks from old motherboards i can for sure use on the 360 board but i dont know how to stick them on and i sure as hell dont want use superglue. or should i?
thanks
hey dude did you look at this thread.. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=650203
it pertains to 0020 error.. might want to give that a look also.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 01:18:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 29 2008, 09:05 PM)
this one is offtopic but i didnt want to create a new thread since its an easy one.
what sorta of glue or forumla can i use to stick a heatsink to the ram chips?
i have a few heatsinks from old motherboards i can for sure use on the 360 board but i dont know how to stick them on and i sure as hell dont want use superglue. or should i?
thanks
Use some AS5
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 01:28:00 PM
as shown in the pictures below i lost a rubber washer and it'll take me a few days to get one so i can only do the xclamp fix for the gpu. i think thats should suffice anyway.
ok so i put the fix on the gpu and i tightened enough (not too tight) and i get 0022.
i went back and tightened the gpu some more and now 0022 is gone and instead i am getting 0102.
is this progress?
(EDIT: i take that back. just right now it started giving me 0022 again and no 0102)
i will ask the supercede question again. which comes first? 0102 or 0022?
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=startinguptr7.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xclampgpubackrn1.jpg
on a side note i also did what some people do. i put my finger on the ana chip during startup hoping something might happen but no luck. same for the two ram chips outside of the gpu heatsink --those things do get hot!
QUOTE
Use some AS5
sadly my as5 forumla is running out. i am ordering some more. will the regular thermal paste be fine you think?
pls advise
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 01:45:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 29 2008, 10:04 PM)
i have made a new discovery
as shown in the pictures below i lost a rubber washer and it'll take me a few days to get one so i can only do the xclamp fix for the gpu. i think thats should suffice anyway.
ok so i put the fix on the gpu and i tightened enough (not too tight) and i get 0022.
i went back and tightened the gpu some more and now 0022 is gone and instead i am getting 0102.
is this progress?
(EDIT: i take that back. just right now it started giving me 0022 again and no 0102)
i will ask the supercede question again. which comes first? 0102 or 0022?
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=startinguptr7.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xclampgpubackrn1.jpg
on a side note i also did what some people do. i put my finger on the ana chip during startup hoping something might happen but no luck. same for the two ram chips outside of the gpu heatsink --those things do get hot!
sadly my as5 forumla is running out. i am ordering some more. will the regular thermal paste be fine you think?
pls advise
Actually it is like that
E74(1022) is overwritten by 0022 which is an 0020 + an 1022, however 0102 overwrites 0020, so it makes sense that 0102 also overwrites the 0022 which is of the same error class and 01** is higher than 002*
So yes getting 0102 can be a bad sign because 0022 might still be there
Any thermal compound should be good to fasten the RAM heatsinks since they dont get as hot as the GPU or CPU...
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 02:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 30 2008, 12:21 AM)
Actually it is like that
E74(1022) is overwritten by 0022 which is an 0020 + an 1022, however 0102 overwrites 0020, so it makes sense that 0102 also overwrites the 0022 which is of the same error class and 01** is higher than 002*
So yes getting 0102 can be a bad sign because 0022 might still be there
Any thermal compound should be good to fasten the RAM heatsinks since they dont get as hot as the GPU or CPU...
so according to this error guide i've been doing it all wrong. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=484726
0022 CPU error, generally caused by a poor connection to the mainboard (cold solder joints/bridged solder joints). This can also be triggered by an error with the TSOP.
i've been heating the GPU/ANA chip and now its saying 0022 is CPU or TSOP (NAND chip) related. back to the heatgun.
<sigh>
sorry i keep posting so much. i am doing this mostly to get feedback from the pros plus help for anyone who may go through hell like i am doing.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 02:12:00 PM
and the funny thing is i fixed 0022 by using the credit card conceptl.. but oh well you dont seem to be listening anyways..
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 02:15:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 30 2008, 12:48 AM)
i told you play around with the washer setup, AND try that credit card thing but you seem not be listening about that credit card thing and its a shame i have a feeling it would work for you
and the funny thing is i fixed 0022 by using the credit card conceptl.. but oh well you dont seem to be listening anyways..
and the funny thing is i fixed 0022 by using the credit card conceptl.. but oh well you dont seem to be listening anyways..
lol. sorry dude.
i honestly keep forgetting about it but i will try it today on the GPU.
1.5mm is soo tiny damn i hate cutting small pieces.
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 29, 2008, 02:26:00 PM
well it can be probably 2mm im sure it wont matter but i was told 1.5mm
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 02:48:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 29 2008, 10:37 PM)
so according to this error guide i've been doing it all wrong. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=484726
0022 CPU error, generally caused by a poor connection to the mainboard (cold solder joints/bridged solder joints). This can also be triggered by an error with the TSOP.
i've been heating the GPU/ANA chip and now its saying 0022 is CPU or TSOP (NAND chip) related. back to the heatgun.
<sigh>
sorry i keep posting so much. i am doing this mostly to get feedback from the pros plus help for anyone who may go through hell like i am doing.
The FAQ is simply wrong it isnt CPU related at all and neither NAND related...
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 30 2008, 01:02 AM)
do it on both gpu and cpu!
well it can be probably 2mm im sure it wont matter but i was told 1.5mm
well it can be probably 2mm im sure it wont matter but i was told 1.5mm
no success.
still getting 0022
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 06:39:00 PM
maybe 0022 REALLY means its dead cause i heated the sucker 10 times so far!!!
xclamps, no xclamps. all the same
i give up!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 29, 2008, 07:40:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 30 2008, 03:15 AM)
i dont know i think i am done for
maybe 0022 REALLY means its dead cause i heated the sucker 10 times so far!!!
xclamps, no xclamps. all the same
i give up!
Sorry to hear that, you really seem to be out of luck
Maybe you can still sell the parts on Ebay or so...
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 08:32:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 30 2008, 06:16 AM)
Sorry to hear that, you really seem to be out of luck
Maybe you can still sell the parts on Ebay or so...
ya. and now its 0020!!!
ebay is too much of a hassle.
so now i have one board left with 0020. i'll take it to the local repair guy and see if he can fix it.
Post by: cylent on July 29, 2008, 10:14:00 PM
In an effort to try and get rid of 0022 I decided to reheat the GPU and put some pressure on it with something flat. I heated the gpu for 3 mins or so at about 500C (going in circles around the GPU). I then decided to use CPU heatsink and I really put force into the GPU to try to put it back into place. little did i know that i was just making the situtation worse.
Now when i start the system it takes 1-2 seconds and the dreaded 0020 appears.
I even tried re-loosining the no-xclamp fix screws but its simply not doing anything.
if anyone can help me fix this please advise.
desperate is my middle name now.
Post by: randon_i_am on July 29, 2008, 11:21:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 30, 2008, 03:42:00 AM
QUOTE(randon_i_am @ Jul 30 2008, 07:57 AM)
sounds like you have flattened a bunch of solder balls under there... sorry mate, a re-ball might be the only way
Yep I can only confirm that, bridged solder balls cause 0020...
Thats why I didnt recommend that because if you do it at the wrong moment this happens and a reball is your last chance...
At least we know now that 0020 overrides 0022...
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 04:14:00 AM
am i able to fix it myself?
when you say a re-ball does that mean it requires professional service now?
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 05:32:00 AM
it gives me hope!
its too bad i really suck with the soldering iron.
also, what is the device he used to pull the chip away?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1InDsWCjQ&feature=related
and then i found this: reballing x 360 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQeanpujmuM&feature=related
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 30, 2008, 05:58:00 AM
it sucks that you didnt fix the board, i knew that putting pressure on the chips while hot wasnt a good idea
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 06:26:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 30 2008, 04:34 PM)
lol i believe its professional you need a special tool/station to do this.. and they cost a fair amount of money...
it sucks that you didnt fix the board, i knew that putting pressure on the chips while hot wasnt a good idea
it sucks that you didnt fix the board, i knew that putting pressure on the chips while hot wasnt a good idea
in the first video the guy did the phone chip reballing by hand.
but then in the second one i can see how many dots are on the ATI x360 chip. damn! thats alot.
well at least i can save the board and hopefully i can fix it.
in the meantime -- two days ago i bought me a new shiny elite.
the new falcon ... manufactured in 2008
i am actually afraid to even play it.
((please no one tell me it'll break -- i dont have the strength to handle a 3rd one breaking))
my old broken board with GPU removed ready for reballing
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu2ta5.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu1wp5.jpg
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 30, 2008, 06:46:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 30 2008, 09:02 AM)
in the first video the guy did the phone chip reballing by hand.
but then in the second one i can see how many dots are on the ATI x360 chip. damn! thats alot.
well at least i can save the board and hopefully i can fix it.
in the meantime -- two days ago i bought me a new shiny elite.
the new falcon ... manufactured in 2008
i am actually afraid to even play it.
((please no one tell me it'll break -- i dont have the strength to handle a 3rd one breaking))
my old broken board with GPU removed ready for reballing
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu2ta5.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu1wp5.jpg
well atleast you can sell the other stuff from the xbox for some cash..
but if you get that reballing to working your going to have to write a tutorial!
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 07:06:00 AM
search for "sony vaio fan" on ebay
one quick link http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Vaio-PCG-F430-Heatsink-w-Fan-UDQFXEH01_W0QQitemZ130241232973QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130241232973&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
QUOTE
The Video RAM sphere contact looked good on all 8 chips. I then shifted my attention to the S Bridge BGA package. All looked good there as well. I then progressed to the Video Processor. After careful inspection and applying various probing techniques I concluded that the GPU was not to blame for the 3 red light fault.
On to the Central Processing Unit or ?CPU?. This is where the fun begins. Immediately, I noticed that on the two corners facing the GPU each corner?s solder spheres appeared to be losing contact with their corresponding pads on the motherboard. (See Figure 1) This was verified by using the BGA camera in conjunction with a probing tool as a gentle ?lifting device?. After this discovery I proceeded to give it a test run. Using various techniques for probing PCB problems in the past I was able to stabilize the board to eliminate any board movement / flexing in order to effectively verify this was indeed the problem area. With the board stabilized and applied gentle pressure on these two suspect corners of the CPU and the board booted properly.
On to the Central Processing Unit or ?CPU?. This is where the fun begins. Immediately, I noticed that on the two corners facing the GPU each corner?s solder spheres appeared to be losing contact with their corresponding pads on the motherboard. (See Figure 1) This was verified by using the BGA camera in conjunction with a probing tool as a gentle ?lifting device?. After this discovery I proceeded to give it a test run. Using various techniques for probing PCB problems in the past I was able to stabilize the board to eliminate any board movement / flexing in order to effectively verify this was indeed the problem area. With the board stabilized and applied gentle pressure on these two suspect corners of the CPU and the board booted properly.
in my opinion this tutorial needs to be re-written and this is why:
QUOTE
You may ask.. ?If we?re reflowing the wrong chip then why are we seeing positive results? You?re seeing positive results because you?re action of applying heat to the PCB is warping the board. It?s changing the clearance under the problem area of the CPU allowing the solder sphere to temporarily make contact. If you attempt to ?reflow? the CPU you?ll find that you can?t get the CPU solder to reach ?liquidus? or ?melt? because of the pervious extremely high temperatures that it?s been subjected to up until the problem surfaced.
from what i understand we need to flex the board so that the proper contact is made to the CPU/GPU. sorta of like pushing the corners in.
heating the GPU has a good chance of ruining it.
QUOTE
The only way that I can see possible to repair these units is to have access to replacement CPUs to use once the old CPU is removed. Also, another solution would be to buy a new replacement motherboard and properly cool it from the beginning of its service life.
in other words i should NOT turn on my elite until i get better cooling so i can make it last ...
read the article here
http://www.consolerealm.com/Tech/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=57&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 30, 2008, 09:49:00 AM
QUOTE
The Video RAM sphere contact looked good on all 8 chips. I then shifted my attention to the S Bridge BGA package. All looked good there as well. I then progressed to the Video Processor. After careful inspection and applying various probing techniques I concluded that the GPU was not to blame for the 3 red light fault.
On to the Central Processing Unit or ?CPU?. This is where the fun begins. Immediately, I noticed that on the two corners facing the GPU each corner?s solder spheres appeared to be losing contact with their corresponding pads on the motherboard. (See Figure 1) This was verified by using the BGA camera in conjunction with a probing tool as a gentle ?lifting device?. After this discovery I proceeded to give it a test run. Using various techniques for probing PCB problems in the past I was able to stabilize the board to eliminate any board movement / flexing in order to effectively verify this was indeed the problem area. With the board stabilized and applied gentle pressure on these two suspect corners of the CPU and the board booted properly.
Well this doesnt really mean a thing since he didnt tell the secondary error code, it will most likely have been an 0102 or 0002 then...
You cant generalize it like he does, he would have had to reflow the CPU oh well...
There are also other 3 red light errors like 0110 which are in no way CPU related, how is he going to fix these with that?
QUOTE
You may ask.. ?If we?re reflowing the wrong chip then why are we seeing positive results? You?re seeing positive results because you?re action of applying heat to the PCB is warping the board. It?s changing the clearance under the problem area of the CPU allowing the solder sphere to temporarily make contact. If you attempt to ?reflow? the CPU you?ll find that you can?t get the CPU solder to reach ?liquidus? or ?melt? because of the pervious extremely high temperatures that it?s been subjected to up until the problem surfaced.
This dude is obviously wrong.
If we were unable to reflow all solder balls people would be unable to break their 360s by pushing the chip down and flattening out all solder balls or to get it off the board like you cylent
Fixing a mainboard by flexing it is never a good idea and if he adviced that this just underlines my assumption.
The heat always plays a role for cold solder joints and it is just natural that the flexing might fix them...
Only a reflow which he was unable to do can fix it permanently as he said.
Nope the tutorial is alright the only thing Id like to add are timings...
QUOTE
The only way that I can see possible to repair these units is to have access to replacement CPUs to use once the old CPU is removed. Also, another solution would be to buy a new replacement motherboard and properly cool it from the beginning of its service life.
To cool it from the beginning will prelong its life but the flexing will cause the solder balls to break though so the X-Clamps should be replaced as well because they are causing way more damage than the heat.
And I remember this cooled 360 there, unfortunately it wasnt working properly because he has fans at unnecessary places like behind the dvd drive.
The only fan that might help was the one under the dvd drive, unfortunately this one blows the air down on the mainboard as well and since it cant suck any fresh air because of the dvd drive it block all other aire flow as well and will make the 360 run even hotter than with the usual setup...
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 10:15:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 30 2008, 08:25 PM)
Well this doesnt really mean a thing since he didnt tell the secondary error code, it will most likely have been an 0102 or 0002 then...
You cant generalize it like he does, he would have had to reflow the CPU oh well...
There are also other 3 red light errors like 0110 which are in no way CPU related, how is he going to fix these with that?
This dude is obviously wrong.
If we were unable to reflow all solder balls people would be unable to break their 360s by pushing the chip down and flattening out all solder balls or to get it off the board like you cylent
Fixing a mainboard by flexing it is never a good idea and if he adviced that this just underlines my assumption.
The heat always plays a role for cold solder joints and it is just natural that the flexing might fix them...
Only a reflow which he was unable to do can fix it permanently as he said.
Nope the tutorial is alright the only thing Id like to add are timings...
To cool it from the beginning will prelong its life but the flexing will cause the solder balls to break though so the X-Clamps should be replaced as well because they are causing way more damage than the heat.
And I remember this cooled 360 there, unfortunately it wasnt working properly because he has fans at unnecessary places like behind the dvd drive.
The only fan that might help was the one under the dvd drive, unfortunately this one blows the air down on the mainboard as well and since it cant suck any fresh air because of the dvd drive it block all other aire flow as well and will make the 360 run even hotter than with the usual setup...
ok so do the xclamp fix + add more fans + do the RAM rubber pads?
does this mean i should keep my unit off until i do all those things?
what do you think?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 30, 2008, 12:00:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 30 2008, 06:51 PM)
ok so do the xclamp fix + add more fans + do the RAM rubber pads?
does this mean i should keep my unit off until i do all those things?
what do you think?
If you want to do the X-Clamp Fix as a preventive measure you get the best results the earlier you do it since the solder balls havent been damaged yet then.
If you do it later you risk that some solder balls are instable already...
You have to be extremely careful with it though, make sure you dont flex it and only touch it very gently
Every shake can fuck it up.
Also make sure that you only tighten the screws as much as necessary if the mainboard is just slightly flexing solderballs will become loose over time and cause the ROD...
Cooling mods are recommended as well but the main aspect is replacing the x-clamps that are causing the most damage...
In case you want to know why you are replacing them etc and why it is even more important than reducing the temperatures check this out
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=655662
*EDIT*
I am saying it for the third and last time
DONT PUT ANYTHING UNDER THE RAM IT WILL FLEX THE MAINBOARD
If there are heat transfer pads(thats what they are called) leave them there because they fit there perfectly if not leave it, the RAM doesnt have any heat problems...
Post by: HackerSupreme on July 30, 2008, 02:26:00 PM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 30 2008, 09:02 AM)
in the first video the guy did the phone chip reballing by hand.
but then in the second one i can see how many dots are on the ATI x360 chip. damn! thats alot.
well at least i can save the board and hopefully i can fix it.
in the meantime -- two days ago i bought me a new shiny elite.
the new falcon ... manufactured in 2008
i am actually afraid to even play it.
((please no one tell me it'll break -- i dont have the strength to handle a 3rd one breaking))
my old broken board with GPU removed ready for reballing
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu2ta5.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gpu1wp5.jpg
Good god stop now. It looks like you ripped out the last row of solder pads.
Post by: cylent on July 30, 2008, 02:52:00 PM
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jul 31 2008, 01:02 AM)
Good god stop now. It looks like you ripped out the last row of solder pads.
it was fun actually taking revenge on the damn thing. it kept me up all night heatgunning it. it was payback time!
Post by: bonzof.pl on July 30, 2008, 02:57:00 PM
foto
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 30, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Jul 30 2008, 11:33 PM)
CPU corner
fotoLOL ye looks like he tried to get the CPU off as well
cylent:
Maybe you can at least use the mainboard for parts or so it can be quite handy when you break something...
Post by: cylent on July 31, 2008, 07:54:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jul 31 2008, 05:03 AM)
LOL ye looks like he tried to get the CPU off as well
cylent:
Maybe you can at least use the mainboard for parts or so it can be quite handy when you break something...
i dont know how i can use it for parts. i am not an electrical engineer and when i tried to rip the GPU and CPU chips off i caused havoc.
i do however would like to know if its wise to use the OLD CPU heatsink on my new Elite (falcon). what do you think?
Post by: bosnia_9 on July 31, 2008, 08:22:00 AM
QUOTE(cylent @ Jul 31 2008, 10:30 AM)
i dont know how i can use it for parts. i am not an electrical engineer and when i tried to rip the GPU and CPU chips off i caused havoc.
i do however would like to know if its wise to use the OLD CPU heatsink on my new Elite (falcon). what do you think?
why would you do that?
tomorrow that tutorial is coming from Wilhelm_I i wonder whats it gonna be about
Post by: cylent on July 31, 2008, 09:14:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 31 2008, 06:58 PM)
why would you do that?
tomorrow that tutorial is coming from Wilhelm_I i wonder whats it gonna be about
because the old cpu heatsink has a heat pipe and the new one is nothing but a cheap metal piece.
Post by: humboldt111502 on August 06, 2008, 06:57:00 PM
turkey oven bags like the ones below. they are made from plastic that can handle cooking in the oven without melting.
I also have a quick question....
i have a 360 that I want to use the heatgun on, but there are copper heatsinks on the 2 exposed upper ram chips. i doubt the thermal tape on those can handle the heatgun temps, so how can i pull those off without damaging the ram chips?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 06, 2008, 07:03:00 PM
QUOTE(humboldt111502 @ Aug 7 2008, 03:33 AM)
Not sure if anyone thought of this, but I just had an idea for an insulator for the motherboard while using the heatgun......
turkey oven bags like the ones below. they are made from plastic that can handle cooking in the oven without melting.
I also have a quick question....
i have a 360 that I want to use the heatgun on, but there are copper heatsinks on the 2 exposed upper ram chips. i doubt the thermal tape on those can handle the heatgun temps, so how can i pull those off without damaging the ram chips?
Good idea with the oven bags , they will have to work as an isolator though, the fact that they dont melt doesnt mean that they are a good insulator
It is worth a try though, just be careful.
Dont heatgun the mainboard with the heatsinks on if they are heavy enough they will flatten the solderballs under the RAM...
Take a picture of them if they are the thermal take ones I can tell you how to get them off easily...
Post by: humboldt111502 on August 06, 2008, 07:46:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 7 2008, 02:39 AM)
Take a picture of them if they are the thermal take ones I can tell you how to get them off easily...
Here are the heatsinks I used on the ramchips....
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=657724
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 07, 2008, 04:25:00 AM
)Be careful, you can easily get a cold solder joint from that and then you will have to reflow the RAM...
Also watch out for the capacitor right in front of it this bigger one, you can easily rip it off in the process, this happened to me once...
Post by: kainfriends on August 08, 2008, 04:29:00 AM
Also, the length of the screws wasn't mentioned. the CPU heatsink can take regular screws but just know you need really short screws for the GPU heatsink.
There's a high probability you will get the overheating error during this tut, but if the tightening doesn't work, you can always just remove the metal washer and go with the nylon only provided it is thick enough, (mine were twice as thick as the metal) so if thats the case you can just skip the metal washers, make sure to tighten equally and just enough. if you are still getting the overheating, take the heatsinks off, and see if theres any actual AS5 on them.
Great tut, hang in there for those trying this, also high probability you might have to bake the system (no need to wait 'till overheating mine was good after 2.5 mins
u guys saved my xbox's life and pretty much killed my social one
-warm hearted thanks-
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 08, 2008, 10:57:00 AM
QUOTE(kainfriends @ Aug 8 2008, 01:05 PM)
thanks alot. chalk one up for me. the technique was good but tedious. also, i think you meant to say 1mm by 1mm squares because 2mm are too big. Also, i couldn't find a guide to put the 360 back together, only mentioning this coz there's people out there who don't really remember how to put it together.
Also, the length of the screws wasn't mentioned. the CPU heatsink can take regular screws but just know you need really short screws for the GPU heatsink.
There's a high probability you will get the overheating error during this tut, but if the tightening doesn't work, you can always just remove the metal washer and go with the nylon only provided it is thick enough, (mine were twice as thick as the metal) so if thats the case you can just skip the metal washers, make sure to tighten equally and just enough. if you are still getting the overheating, take the heatsinks off, and see if theres any actual AS5 on them.
Great tut, hang in there for those trying this, also high probability you might have to bake the system (no need to wait 'till overheating mine was good after 2.5 mins
u guys saved my xbox's life and pretty much killed my social one
-warm hearted thanks-
Ye it used to be 1.5mm but some people were confused about that so I made it 2mm(will change it back again)
For the assembling you could basically just use the disassembling tutorial but start at the end lol
I will also update it and add the length of the screws.
The washers I use are 1 mm thick however I know this problem because my mate from Canada had the same problems....
Baking is never a good idea though because the error will return, you have to find the proper setting for the pressure otherwise it will not be permanent...
Thanks for the suggestions, I will edit the tutorial right now and I am glad that it worked for you
Post by: 3thirteen on August 11, 2008, 12:20:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 11, 2008, 01:57:00 PM
QUOTE(3thirteen @ Aug 11 2008, 08:56 PM)
Followed this but came out with same error code as going in(0110). Don't think I heated the board quite enough, so I'm gonna give it another shot tomorrow.
Ye concentrate on the RAM bricks.
Do the bottom first 1 minute preheating and 4 minutes heatgunning on high.
Let it cool down for 45 minutes.
Do the top first 1 minute preheating and 4 minutes heatgunning on high.
Let it cool down for 45 minutes.
Apply the X-Clamp replacement and check your results...
Post by: 3thirteen on August 12, 2008, 08:23:00 AM
Board is cooling down, but one of the RAM chips looks bad
It's probably more dead than it was before, but I guess I'll find out in an hour.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 12, 2008, 12:42:00 PM
QUOTE(3thirteen @ Aug 12 2008, 04:59 PM)
Think I put too much heat time around
Board is cooling down, but one of the RAM chips looks bad
It's probably more dead than it was before, but I guess I'll find out in an hour.
If the RAM brick is dead you will get 0031 otherwise it is just a cold joint still.
Does it have any visible damage like cracks?
Post by: 3thirteen on August 17, 2008, 09:12:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 18, 2008, 07:04:00 AM
QUOTE(3thirteen @ Aug 17 2008, 05:48 PM)
No the RAM brick isnt cracked, it just looks like something is leaking out.
Hmm if solder is leaking out this means that the RAM is flat and needs a reball usually it shows 0020 then...
Have you powered the system yet?
Post by: juan23 on August 18, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
i know it has to do with power to cpu gpu, however it is the same power adapter that i use on my main xbox.
tia.
p.S great tutorial, I have been successsful on a couple so far.
Post by: josiah1992 on August 18, 2008, 03:28:00 PM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 19, 2008, 10:12:00 AM
QUOTE(juan23 @ Aug 18 2008, 08:40 PM)
I just did the tutorial myself, however after a couple attempts it worked for about an hour, then finally on my final try i get an error code 0003. everything appears to be good I cant see any burn or mesups on the board. any suggestions or anyone else get this code yet. i read through all 19 pages and didnt see anyone with that code.
i know it has to do with power to cpu gpu, however it is the same power adapter that i use on my main xbox.
tia.
p.S great tutorial, I have been successsful on a couple so far.
Ye http://xe.brothersoffreedom.com/en/errorcode.php?s=0003 is really a pain in the arse.
Am glad I didnt have one so far...
Scan your mainboard for any parts that have moved away while heatgunning and are bridging something now or that have fallen off...
Might also be a defective part in case you have got any extremely burned/blown capacitors try to replace them.
QUOTE(josiah1992 @ Aug 19 2008, 12:04 AM)
damn error 0022. did this to fix error E74 but now im getting 0022. i heated both top and bottom and even tried your method of the xclamp reaplcement, but still get 0022. is there anything else i can do, or is this board dead?
Hmm which parts did you concentrate on, for long did you heatgun at which temperature and how long did you wait after heatgunning, did you maybe touch/ move the board while heatgunning/before the cool down time was over?
Post by: josiah1992 on August 19, 2008, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: Vendeta on August 19, 2008, 10:59:00 AM
Should get it back tomorrow and no more RRODs more me I hope!
Will update tomorrow night!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 19, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
QUOTE(josiah1992 @ Aug 19 2008, 07:23 PM)
i focussed and the gpu and ana chip area. i warmed it up first at low ( 300C ) for 1 minute and then i heated it on high (500C) for another 3-4 minutes. i left it to cool down for 45+ minutes and im pretty sure the board didnt move whilst i was heating it. am i screwed?
Did you do the bottom first, then let it cool down and then do the top?
In total the whole procedure should take like 2 hours...
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 19 2008, 07:35 PM)
Well, I found someone who has a proper BGA reflow machine. It heats the board from top and bottom at same time, with different temps and takes it through a full cooling curve ect.
Should get it back tomorrow and no more RRODs more me I hope!
Will update tomorrow night!
Good luck mate!
Post by: Vendeta on August 19, 2008, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: josiah1992 on August 19, 2008, 04:24:00 PM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 19 2008, 10:08 PM)
Did you do the bottom first, then let it cool down and then do the top?
In total the whole procedure should take like 2 hours...
yeah i did. should i try again with heating the top first and then bottom? or should i try exactly what i did again? or is it not worth it?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 20, 2008, 12:02:00 AM
Also take a look at the solderballs under the GPU from the side if they are shorting out you got your problem
Post by: josiah1992 on August 20, 2008, 02:13:00 AM
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Aug 20 2008, 07:38 AM)
Try top only and do it a minute longer if this doesnt reflow it properly the thing is dead.
Also take a look at the solderballs under the GPU from the side if they are shorting out you got your problem
ok thanks wilhelm. i took a good look at the solder balls to see what i can find and although i couldnt see any signs of a short, i did notice that one side of the gpu was raised slighty higher than the other as i could see the solder balls more clearly. is this a sign that i am officially screwed, or is this fixable?
Post by: josiah1992 on August 20, 2008, 04:27:00 AM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 20, 2008, 07:37:00 AM
You can indeed push it slightly down but this very risky, someone told people to do it a few pages earlier and one guy screwed his GPU up like that,...
Since you have got nothing to loose give it a go.
Use a screw driver or the heatsink to push it down slightly.
The best will be to start like when you start heating it up because if you push it down when the solderballs have melted you risk flattening the GPU out completely.
So the solder balls are only soft but havent melted yet completely...
Be very careful, dont overdo it...
And to prevent other from fucking their 360s up using this awful fix, like earlier.
DONT DO THIS IT WILL BREAK YOUR XBOX!!!
Post by: Vendeta on August 20, 2008, 03:26:00 PM
:DSo, I put heatsinks back on, without clamps. So watching a dvd on the console now since I dont have a game now best i can do to test it out. Since getting it back, no RROD. So I am happy so far!!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 21, 2008, 12:01:00 AM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 21 2008, 12:02 AM)
Well, I got the motherboard back today, reflowed. Got the video and sound back!
:DSo, I put heatsinks back on, without clamps. So watching a dvd on the console now since I dont have a game now best i can do to test it out. Since getting it back, no RROD. So I am happy so far!!
Nice to hear that go get a game to test it properly though the temps will go up by like 10°C when you play a game.
Which was the error code you were getting again?
Post by: Vendeta on August 21, 2008, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: Zanzang on August 25, 2008, 02:55:00 PM
Heatgunning and then xclamping brought the box back to life.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 26, 2008, 12:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 21 2008, 08:41 AM)
I was getting 0102 and sometimes 1021. I would normally get RROS 5/10 times when turning the console on. I have get to get one now.
QUOTE(Zanzang @ Aug 25 2008, 11:31 PM)
I was getting 1RL + e74 (error code: 1022).
Heatgunning and then xclamping brought the box back to life.
Nice am glad it worked for you
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 26 2008, 12:14 AM)
Well I got RROD again, due to my own stupid and not following x-clamp properly. So re doing BGA reflow tomorrow and games will be here and i can test properly!
Yep use proper screws and washers this time
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 27, 2008, 12:01:00 AM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 26 2008, 11:42 PM)
Well, I should get board back tomorrow. I got the propper screws and washers. I am just scared of using the card trick to this as reflow has been done and board wont be screwed to case again, thus no flex?
Not 100% sure how to redo x-clamp? with cards or normal with just screws on snug, not tight?
Just do my x-clamp replacement but be very careful with the pressure, only tighten the screws snug...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 28, 2008, 01:44:00 PM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 27 2008, 05:57 PM)
So until the screws sit flush againt the motherboard, no tighter then that?
Ye like as soon as you feel a slight resistance you tighten it by another 1/16th of a turn, just a tiny bit.
Works always for me...
AM using spring washers though,..
Just figured an important issue about my x-clamp fix out though got the key why it doesnt work for a lot of people...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 29, 2008, 03:59:00 AM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 28 2008, 11:08 PM)
Hey all,
Reflow worked. But now got RROD - 0110. Which is ram. So, fuck this peice of crap, it's going into the bin. New one will be here Teusday.
Thanks for all the help though guys!
Hmm you are pretty unlucky with your systems mate
If you ever get back to it reflow the RAM
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 29, 2008, 10:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 29 2008, 06:27 PM)
Ja I know very unlucky.
I might send it in one more time. I don't know. We'll see.
Thanks.
I hope you are not talking about the one you were trying to fix because this would be warranty fraud, you better edit this post quickly...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on August 29, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
QUOTE(Vendeta @ Aug 29 2008, 08:16 PM)
You're very quick to bring up that warranty fraud, eh?
If you look through my last few posts, you will find that I sent the motherboard in to get it reflowed. Now, look at the last post. Put two and two together and you will clearly see that I am indeed talking about sending the motherboard to get reflowed by Natcom electronic and not Microsoft.
Ah ye I should have known better, you told me on MSN, lol.
Just got so many people in my memory is difficult to remember every single one, sorry...
Post by: Minker17 on September 04, 2008, 08:03:00 AM
Post by: killamayne on September 04, 2008, 02:43:00 PM
QUOTE(Minker17 @ Sep 4 2008, 07:39 AM)
It's probably in the past 20 pages somewhere, but Wilhelm, can you be a little specific on the areas in which I need to focus on when heatgunning. When I'm getting errors 0020 and 0021. Maybe a picture with circled areas which I need to really focus on?
20 is overheating. meaning your not gettin good contact with the heatsink. you have to solve that problem first. heatgunning it wont solve it.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 04, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
QUOTE(Minker17 @ Sep 4 2008, 04:39 PM)
It's probably in the past 20 pages somewhere, but Wilhelm, can you be a little specific on the areas in which I need to focus on when heatgunning. When I'm getting errors 0020 and 0021. Maybe a picture with circled areas which I need to really focus on?
0020 IS NOT OVERHEATING!
http://xe.brothersof...code.php?s=0020
and
http://xe.brothersof...code.php?s=0021
For 0021 focus on SOuthbridge -> SIlver chip with 360 logo near the network port and the SATA connector.
ANd for 0020 focus on the CPU/GPU/RAM area.
Basically reflow everything!!!
Post by: haris2887 on September 05, 2008, 09:22:00 AM
first of all gr8 tutorial...
here is my story..
i did the xclamp replacement and was getting 0102 RROD. i tried adjusting the tension of the screws for about 30min but still no go it would keep freezing...
so i decided to do this tutorial i concentrated on the GPU and Ram and underside of the cPU
but not the top side of the CPU as i was fairly confident the problem was either GPU or MEMORY area...
also because i was not going to do the top side of the CPU Isolating it was soooo easy all i have to o i get foil and cover half the motherboard did not have to worry about molding foil around caps which takes a lot of time ect...
Put is back together and WORKED...
so far it is running great it does not freeze where it use to (level 1 on tiger woods very GPU intensive)i played up to level 18 then i had to go to bed and still going strong will keep you updated on how long it lasts......
I am thinking of making heat gunning a part of MY regular x-clamp replacement procedure, Do it one do it right , it might take a bit longer but nothing compared to re dissembling xbox after x-clamps fail in a week or when a customer comes back with the same problem and i have to fix again etc.... etc...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 05, 2008, 04:08:00 PM
QUOTE(haris2887 @ Sep 5 2008, 05:58 PM)
HI,
first of all gr8 tutorial...
here is my story..
i did the xclamp replacement and was getting 0102 RROD. i tried adjusting the tension of the screws for about 30min but still no go it would keep freezing...
so i decided to do this tutorial i concentrated on the GPU and Ram and underside of the cPU
but not the top side of the CPU as i was fairly confident the problem was either GPU or MEMORY area...
also because i was not going to do the top side of the CPU Isolating it was soooo easy all i have to o i get foil and cover half the motherboard did not have to worry about molding foil around caps which takes a lot of time ect...
Put is back together and WORKED...
so far it is running great it does not freeze where it use to (level 1 on tiger woods very GPU intensive)i played up to level 18 then i had to go to bed and still going strong will keep you updated on how long it lasts......
I am thinking of making heat gunning a part of MY regular x-clamp replacement procedure, Do it one do it right , it might take a bit longer but nothing compared to re dissembling xbox after x-clamps fail in a week or when a customer comes back with the same problem and i have to fix again etc.... etc...
Ye
I use it almost every time as well.
You should include the CPU as well though because 0102 can also be CPU related.
I always do a complete reflow, I insolate everything except the main chips and reflow them all to prevent any future issues with other components.
We also figured something out that is really interesting and this will be the key reason why all fixes that you can find will not be permanent not even reballing or anything.
This discovery will be regarded in Hybrid and released with it so you will have to be a bit more patient, we are working hard on it...
Wilhelm
Post by: rrg on September 17, 2008, 07:02:00 PM
Seems to be holding and running for a week so far.
Thanks.
Post by: Gnagus on September 17, 2008, 09:58:00 PM
I'm about to do the reflow trick to fix a 0102 error. Since it's the only Xbox 360 I have, I only get once chance and i want to be extremely cautious!
I'd enjoy your opinion on the following safety "improvements" for Wilhelm's heatgun method :
1 - to give additionnal protection, i plan on covering the caps with blue adhesive putty....
The material is fairly dense, sticks well to anything, and seems quite resilient to heat...seems to me like it would be the ideal insulation.
To experiment this, I tried heatgunning intensively an old mobo using the method (thick plastic + foil), concentrating the heat near two specific caps; One cap was covered with blue adhesive putty, the rest were not.
To see if my heatgun was delivering enough heat to reflow, i purposedly bumped a chip; Hot enough!
It seemed like it worked well; The unprotected cap blew up, while the other did not. (I must admit that the smaller caps were not covered with putty and did not blow up; Don't know if they are more resilient...
2 - Many people mentionned that the foil and aluminum does not hold well on the board; I plan on using some bolts and nuts to pin down the foil to the board; that should make the whole thing more stable (and allow less air underneath...)
Anyhow, those are a few ideas I plan on using in the following days; I'll report my results here, but in the meantime any feedback would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Gnagus
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 18, 2008, 07:36:00 AM
QUOTE(dizzy1963 @ Sep 18 2008, 12:16 AM)
Been having a saga with my sons xbox, went 2 lights so did the xclamp, then the penny trick but still went 2 red lights within 5 minutes, found the error code 0013 so reflowed the board using this method.
Blew the capacitor next to the ram chips but it still boots up and has been running for the last 2 hours so hopefully happy days.
Thanks for the great tutorial and it all seems to have worked here.
Thanks
Damn sounds like a miracle it is working at all lol.
Was it one of the yellow caps?
QUOTE(Gnagus @ Sep 18 2008, 06:34 AM)
Hey heatgun lovers!
I'm about to do the reflow trick to fix a 0102 error. Since it's the only Xbox 360 I have, I only get once chance and i want to be extremely cautious!
I'd enjoy your opinion on the following safety "improvements" for Wilhelm's heatgun method :
1 - to give additionnal protection, i plan on covering the caps with blue adhesive putty....
The material is fairly dense, sticks well to anything, and seems quite resilient to heat...seems to me like it would be the ideal insulation.
To experiment this, I tried heatgunning intensively an old mobo using the method (thick plastic + foil), concentrating the heat near two specific caps; One cap was covered with blue adhesive putty, the rest were not.
To see if my heatgun was delivering enough heat to reflow, i purposedly bumped a chip; Hot enough!
It seemed like it worked well; The unprotected cap blew up, while the other did not. (I must admit that the smaller caps were not covered with putty and did not blow up; Don't know if they are more resilient...
2 - Many people mentionned that the foil and aluminum does not hold well on the board; I plan on using some bolts and nuts to pin down the foil to the board; that should make the whole thing more stable (and allow less air underneath...)
Anyhow, those are a few ideas I plan on using in the following days; I'll report my results here, but in the meantime any feedback would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Gnagus
Sounds good, I would recommend fastening the foils in the screw holes though because the plastic will too easily start smoking under the direct heat...
This stuff you have been using sounds nice if it works out properly I will update the guide and add it as a material, sound like it is easier to fasten it as well...
Where can you buy that like?
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 18, 2008, 05:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Gnagus @ Sep 18 2008, 10:31 PM)
That blue stuff is used to pin posters to wall, here in canada you can find it at any office supplies stores (Staples for example). Many brands have a similar product.
It's pretty sticky (kinda like Play-Doh but a less manageable) so it's easy to seal the caps so that no hot air will reach them. And from my previous test it does seem melt a bit but not too much under heat, so it seems like an ideal insulation to me. (At least that's the first stuff that came to my mind hehehe)
I might do another heat test to see how the putty reacts and make pictures of it for the benefit of this forum.
I'll take a few pictures of my setup (after applying the putty, after pinning the aluminum down with bolts and nuts) and keep you guys posted on the results. Should be tonight or this weekend!
Cheers!
Have never seen that stuff really, here we use poster strips or just tape to fasten posters
Sounds and looks like some sort of playdoh though, maybe I can find what you mean.
Are there maybe like the exact ingredients on the box or so, then I can search for it on Google maybe?
I will check at an office store and ask them if they have heard of that though, guess I will just get some confused looks in return
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 19, 2008, 08:31:00 AM
QUOTE(dizzy1963 @ Sep 19 2008, 03:57 PM)
I don't know how to attach a picture but it was the little blue one in your picture 10v 220uf, it is next to the ram chips just above the sync button and next to a small transistor and two of the fixing holes for the xclamps. It is the only cap in that area of the board.
It looks like it came unsoldered and the smoke came out of the bottom, I can solder in another if it is needed.
The boy was playing from 16:00 till 22:00 last night and he said everything was still running fine, he has a car racing game that no longer freezes on him but mainly plays cod4.
Hmmm, it probably doesnt have a function that you are using at the moment, probably it powers the memory ports or so, is nice to know though that it isnt necessary to work.
Just for a note the part number is C5F8
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 19, 2008, 04:30:00 PM
QUOTE(warbeast @ Sep 19 2008, 09:38 PM)
the way i look at is the xclamp on its own is not a fix just a way to push togther broken joints that will only move again...
even the 2 red light way of over heating after a xclamp fix that you see on the youtube videos isnt a fix as it doesnt get joints hot enuff to reflow them
i have always used a 2000watt heatgun the way i look at it is the heatgun reflow is the real fix then the xclamp fix is just to fix microsofts design faults so it doesnt fail again
The X-Clamp Fix on it own is a fix it is just not what I would call permanent it works for quite a while but in order to fix it properly you will have to give it a reflow just as you said, this will increase the life span of the fix again, the more careful you are and the less flexing you cause the longer it will work...
Post by: Zoneout on September 20, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
Okay, I just did the first XBOX 360, it was a success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Materials: (Australia) |
Blu Tack (Bought from local supermarket) |
Aluminium Foil |
Oven Bags |
Metal Thread Screws M5 x 15mm (Local Bunnings [Hardware Store] ) |
Spring Washers 1/4" (Local Bunnings [Hardware Store] ) |
Machine Washers 3\16" (Local Bunnings [Hardware Store] ) |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pics:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190002.JPG
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190003.JPG
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190004.JPG
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190005.JPG
Cleaning the CPU and GPU until it's shiny:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190008.JPG
Covering in Blu-Tak:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190017.JPG
Covering it with two layers of Oven Bags (Cut to fit):
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190018.JPG
Covered with Aluminium Foil. (Use blu-tak to hold them down, and electrical tape for underside.)
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190019.JPG
AFTER HEATGUNNING: (Let it cool for 45 minutes)
Removing the foil:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190021.JPG
Removing the Blu-Tak.
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190020.JPG
Revealing the oven wrap under the foil, - It does wonders, and doesn't melt. the Blu-tak also, it basically turns the motherboard into a heat gun-proof, no amount of heat would be able to make the caps bow or blow up. (Recommended method.)
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190022.JPG
The caps after the heatgun, seems untouched, just perfect. smile.gif
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190023.JPG
The caps:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190027.JPG
Now apply some electrical tape to the screw holes (For people who doesn't have nylon washers.)
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190028.JPG
Make a hole out of it, using an stanley / exacto knife:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190029.JPG
Should look like this:, The back should have it as well.
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190030.JPG
Arctic Silver for thermal paste:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190035.JPG
Spring Washers + 1 Machine Washer for back:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190040.JPG
Putting on the heatsink to bolt down:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190041.JPG
Should be done by now:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190042.JPG
Now drill the holes into the casing, to accommodate for the screws, (To avoid the motherboard flexing in the middle, (where the screws touch the case, needs room to protrude) - I use drill bits, starting from small, gradually to bigger bits for this.
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190043.JPG
Should fit perfectly by now:
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190046.JPG
Voila!
http://www.images.t3...om/P8190048.JPG
Hope this helps. (Will do the remaining xboxes later.)
- Zoneout
Post by: Chimp5000 on September 20, 2008, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: Chimp5000 on September 20, 2008, 11:06:00 PM
QUOTE(pthomas @ Sep 21 2008, 12:06 AM)
After doing the X-Clamp Fix and still no luck I decided to heatgun the top because I already did the bottom and I was still getting 0102. I insulated using drop sheets and then on top I used a couple of layers of aluminum foil. I started out with 1 min pre heat and then when I got to 3 min high the drop sheets started to smoke so I immediately stopped. When I put everything back in I got 0022. Now I forgot to say that I had already heat gunned the top before, but because I did not isolate properly I blew a cap near the end of the CPU and the part number is C6C1. Is it possible that this is the cause for 0022? If it is I have already ordered a new capacitor online and am waiting for it.
Thanks for any help!
I personally did not have much luck finding the exact foil that Wilhelm used but what I did do was follow
what bosnia_9 said and got some drop sheets/cloth. This helped, but after a couple of minutes on heatgunning on high I had to stop because it started smoking. Still the drop sheets/cloth did its job well.
You should be able to get the drop sheets/cloth at any hardware store, etc...
I got them at my local Wal Mart for about $4.00.
Good Luck!
Post by: Zoneout on September 21, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Gnagus @ Sep 22 2008, 03:35 AM)
No ingredients on the box, so you can't make your own "batch". I'd be quite surprised if you can't find it in office supplies stores; Worst case, you can find some on the web....
It worked! My experience was a success. I litteraly encased the portion of the board to be gunned with blue putty, encased the caps, and afterwards I no longer needed to use tape; I simply pushed the plastic onto the putty and it sticked together. Add foil, gun, and my Xbox has gone from RRoD 0102 to a happy running machine (for the moment at least).
I'll make a new tutorial with my method (with credits to your method WilHelm_I); Tutorial : Heatgunning for those afraid of heatgunning!
Cheers!
Mmhm, I have done the same, it's a perfect insulator and pretty much good to protect the sensitive parts from the heat.
(Tut is already provided from a page back, but you are welcome to create our own)
Cheers
Zoneout
Post by: pthomas on September 21, 2008, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Chimp5000 @ Sep 21 2008, 06:42 AM)
Cool man, thanks for the fast reply. Didn't expect to get a reply in a thread that has 20 some pages so quickly. By drop sheets/cloth, do you mean like normal cloth/bed sheet? Im not sure what it would be or look like. Thanks again!
Actually If you don't want to use the drop sheets/cloth, you can do what Zoneout did and use the poster putty, put that on the caps and then use some oven bags and put that over the putty. Then on the very top use aluminum foil. Seems to work well for him. He has made a tut and it is on the previous page.
Post by: Gnagus on September 22, 2008, 12:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Zoneout @ Sep 21 2008, 09:30 PM)
Mmhm, I have done the same, it's a perfect insulator and pretty much good to protect the sensitive parts from the heat.
(Tut is already provided from a page back, but you are welcome to create our own)
Cheers
Zoneout
Did you read my post and try my suggestion before me? I posted on sept. 18th with the putty suggestion! THIEF!!!!! Just kidding.Nice tut! I no longer need to write one! (I might write one anyway in HTML format with more explanations...)
However you should NOT mention that the putty makes the board heatgun proof! That's not entirely true; I did a quick test on an old motherboard; Three capacitors, covered in foil and plastic. One cap was encased in putty....
After 5 minutes of reckless heatgunning, I managed to blow up 3 big capacitors....
so the putty offers a good protection but it's not completely bullet proof! But if you don't purposedly heat the caps, yup, the material is excellent and will ensure that nothing blows up!
Cheers, Enjoy your fixed Xbox!
Gnagus
Post by: pthomas on September 22, 2008, 01:58:00 PM
Thanks
Post by: Zoneout on September 23, 2008, 06:34:00 AM
QUOTE(Gnagus @ Sep 23 2008, 05:28 AM)
Did you read my post and try my suggestion before me? I posted on sept. 18th with the putty suggestion! THIEF!!!!! Just kidding.Nice tut! I no longer need to write one! (I might write one anyway in HTML format with more explanations...)
However you should NOT mention that the putty makes the board heatgun proof! That's not entirely true; I did a quick test on an old motherboard; Three capacitors, covered in foil and plastic. One cap was encased in putty....
After 5 minutes of reckless heatgunning, I managed to blow up 3 big capacitors....
so the putty offers a good protection but it's not completely bullet proof! But if you don't purposedly heat the caps, yup, the material is excellent and will ensure that nothing blows up!
Cheers, Enjoy your fixed Xbox!
Gnagus
Woops, didn't notice you made a tut on this before
,Basically I meant, caps with foil + oven wrap + putty, will make it basically heat proof.
No way putty on it's own will survive the extended heat, haha.
But yes, it's an excellent isolator material.
Cheers
Zoneout
Post by: cardboardbox on September 26, 2008, 06:40:00 PM
The plan:
1. adhesive putty over the caps, drop cloth or oven bag if i find one, then foil on top of that. Secure drop cloth as well as I can with electrical tape, then mold the foil on top of it.
2. preheat with hair dryer for one minute because the heat gun I have only has two settings: 400C and 540C, then 4 minutes at 540C or until solder starts to change color. Do the back first, wait an hour, do the front, wait an hour, reassemble.
A few questions:
1. I've read that when doing the x-clamp fix, the screw + whatever washers can only be a max of 3 mm from the board or it wont sit correctly in the case. I have two different screw heads and two different nylon washer types on my board. The flatter ones are probably 3-4 mm, and the larger ones are probably no less than 5mm. I already purchased more flat screws to replace the thicker ones but should I look into drilling out the bottom of the case? And if so, do I also need to drill holes in the plastic outer case? Maybe I'll be ok with the flatter heads?
2. Is the circled area of this pic a problem? I've never done anything to it and for all I know it may have been like this new out of the box. Looks like an amatuer (i.e. like I did it) soldering job.
3. Do I need to put the sticky pads back on the ram when I'm done?
Post by: Zoneout on September 27, 2008, 01:45:00 AM
You can put the pads back whether you want to, it wouldn't make much of a difference but go ahead.
And yes you should drill holes large enough to accommodate the screws that rest against the case, so it can be perfectly flat.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Zoneout
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 27, 2008, 04:24:00 PM
QUOTE(cardboardbox @ Sep 27 2008, 08:45 PM)
thanks.
One more question that I forgot to ask... I think it may have been answered but I cant remember. Should I heat gun the back of the board before putting the foil and stuff on the front?
Ye always heatgun the back first.
And be very careful, avoid all flexing while isolating it/removing the isolation and dont touch it while heatgunning at all...
QUOTE(Gnagus @ Sep 22 2008, 09:28 PM)
After 5 minutes of reckless heatgunning, I managed to blow up 3 big capacitors....
so the putty offers a good protection but it's not completely bullet proof! Hmmm thats a bad sign, looks like you will have to cover the entire caps then better.
I never managed to blow a cap with the plastic isolation, the worst that happened was that the isolation started burning and two caps looked a bit black on top.
The thing still worked without a flaw though afterwards....
Was an extremely fucked up one, was like the last attempts, did it for like 6 minutes....
Post by: cardboardbox on September 28, 2008, 12:00:00 AM
QUOTE(cardboardbox @ Sep 28 2008, 02:55 AM)
I just heat gunned the back but the solder never changed color. I did it for 4 minutes instead of the recommended 3 (at high temperature setting).
I wonder if it got hot enough to do anything.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on September 28, 2008, 05:30:00 AM
You can not really tell by the look if the solder melted, the only thing you have got are the timings, if you use these you can be sure that the solder has melted...
Post by: luther1 on October 01, 2008, 05:34:00 PM
Thanks
Post by: Wilhelm_I on October 02, 2008, 03:13:00 AM
QUOTE(luther1 @ Oct 2 2008, 02:10 AM)
I have followed this tutorial to repair a Xbox 360 with 3 RED Lights and error code 0022. I heated it up on the bottom then the top replaced the X-Clamps and then I had Error code 0102. So I repeated the procedure still have Error Code 0102. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
Give some more details, how long at which temps, did you take breaks, did you move the mainboard while heatgunning etc...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on October 03, 2008, 02:24:00 AM
QUOTE(luther1 @ Oct 2 2008, 02:44 PM)
I heated the bottom at 750 F for one minute, then I switched to 1000 F for 3 minutes. I did not move the board or the table. I waited 45 minutes and then wrapped everything in plastic foil then aluminum foil and heated the top on 750 F for one minute and then 1000 F for 3 minutes. I did not move the board or the table while heating. I let it cool for 45 minutes and then replaced the X-clamps. I adjusted the tension on the screws loose, tight, nothing helps. I tried putting pressure in different places on the board, still error 0102.
So I repeated the procedure exactly as described above. Still get error 0102.
Thanks,
The timings on here are outdated, sorry about that but I cant edit my posts on here, use the timings in this tutorial
http://xbox-experts....p?n=heatgunisol
Post by: Wilhelm_I on October 31, 2008, 07:39:00 PM
QUOTE(euphoricism @ Oct 31 2008, 12:30 AM)
I heatgunned it -- but now I can't figure out how to get the blasted thing back together. I bought it pre-modded and pre-xclamprepair'd. Now I have some 30 washers and I dont know which go where.
I fail.
Please list up exactly which kinds of washers you got then I can tell you which one have to be used where...
Post by: Wilhelm_I on November 05, 2008, 03:03:00 PM
QUOTE(farntheplaya @ Nov 3 2008, 04:50 AM)
I like this tutorial it works good but i fix enough consoles to be able to afford an actual reflow station
my question is that is it any different than a heatgun?
also sometimes the board bends in (or out) while heating it also know as the popcorn effect is that good or bad and how can i prevent it
do you think I'll get better results using an actual reflow station.
Again I do enough consoles for it to be worth it. Im looking at buying a cheap one in the 200-400 range
thanks
You pretty much cant prevent the flexing completely some 2005er mainboards do this flexing thingy that you referred to as the popcorn effect.
In general it happens because of temperature differences on the mainboard because it expands in a different way which causes it to warp.
Try to heat up an area that is as large as possible to keep the mobo at an equal temperature or at least as close as you can get to that...
For the reflowing check out xboxhackers there is some German dude called gamemodz or summit like that he posted temp curves in his reballing/reflowing thread, just search for it on google...
If you get a reflow machine try to get one with heat from below this will prevent the flexing...
Post by: Mholt215 on November 05, 2008, 07:05:00 PM
QUOTE(genxbox1983 @ Nov 5 2008, 10:27 PM)
Hello and thanks for your tutorial Wilhelm. I am outside of the states so I decided to just do the fixing of RRoD myself. maybe not the best idea.
Well here is my problem. I did your x clamp replacement. Now if I tighten the screws down pretty firmly the error I get is 0020 3rod if i loosen the screws of the heatsinks a little bit I get, 0102 error or a temporarily working 360. it'll work for a little bit and freeze. ( side note it seems to freeze more often with a dvd inside, less when playing XBLA games, although it has froze before.)
now. any advice and should I go with the heat gun method at this point?
hope for some advice and input, thanks a bunch.
Yea the heatgun will help.. I think when you have the screws at the tightness to where you get the 0102, i believe that is the correct tightness of the screws, the console just needs to be reflowed.. Just go to harbor freight (look it up online) and you can order a cheap heatgun from there for like 10$.. it works great and its cheap.
Post by: drew99 on November 15, 2008, 03:31:00 PM
Post by: drew99 on November 16, 2008, 08:18:00 AM
Thanks for the reply. I've heated the backside of the board the three previous times but always heated the front after it cools down. I'll try heating just the back (at least that's easy no covering). I have machined blocks called 1 2 3 blocks that I rest the board on. I know that the board is flat and level when on these. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on November 17, 2008, 10:27:00 AM
And also make sure that under the mobo no parts are missing or have moved out of place and also on the GPU.
If you have blown a big cap this can also trigger this error so make sure that the caps are all good and not leaking...
More information on the error can be found here -> 0020
Post by: lord^infamous on November 26, 2008, 01:12:00 AM
Post by: drew99 on December 03, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
Sorry for the very long delay. I had a few bigger problems to attend too. I am now back at the 360.
I heated the back side of the board as suggested by Linflas. Put everything back together loosely basically just finger tight on the bolts. I received error 21 three times in a row. I let it run for a while and it overheated. Let it cool down a bit and got 0020 again, let it cool a bit more and 0021. Seems to be switching from 21 to 20 now. I looked very closely to the back side of the board and I dont see anything missing Willheim. Also no big caps are leaking or busted on the front of the mobo. I attached a few pics of the board on the previous page maybe someone can see a problem but to my inexperienced eyes it all looks good.
I'm going to try heating the back of the southbridge chip some more. Maybe the bridged solder joint is under there and giving me the 0021.
Any other help or suggestions would to greatly appreciated.
Post by: DWells55 on December 07, 2008, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: oldmike on December 08, 2008, 12:42:00 PM
I have a box with error code 0102 and decided to give this try. I have a heat gun with 2 settings low is 550F and high is 1100F. I did the back side first 1 min. on low 4 min on high and waited 45 min. I then wrapped it using a cooking bag and foil and did the front 1 min. on low 4 min. on high. Waited 45 min and reassembled using the modified Wilhem X clamp replacement method. When I hooked it up and turned it on it came right up. I played for about an hour and turned it off. The next day when I turned it on the RROD was back with the same error code 0102. I am assuming that I did not get it hot enough. I am going to try it again and have one question. How far away from the board do you hold the gun? I was holding mine about 5 inches 12 to 13 cm. I have read through all 25 pages of this thread and found only a couple references to the distance of the gun to the board. One place said 5 to 7 cm and one place said 1-1/2 to 2 fists. How much is a fist in inches? I know that time and distance have to be related and would like to know what the optimum distance is?
Post by: DWells55 on December 08, 2008, 01:43:00 PM
QUOTE(cookie_monster @ Dec 8 2008, 07:29 AM)
dwells - what exactly did u do to fix the e74 error?
I just used foil and plastic to cover the board as was recommended and used my embossing gun for about 5 minutes each for the top and bottom, holding it about an inch from the board's surface. I worked in small circles and focused on the CPU, GPU, and ANA (pushing down on it after applying heat), as well as the areas connecting these chips. I might have additionally done a couple 1 or 2 minute runs on both the top and bottom just to be sure.
I removed both heatsinks ahead of time and cleaned all the Microsoft thermal material from both the heatsinks and chips using high-purity isopropyl alcohol and a alcohol-based adhesive remover. After heatgunning the system, I allowed it 45 minutes to cool and then applied Arctic Silver Ceramique to the heatsinks themselves, rubbing it onto the heatsink and then cleaning it out. This allows it to sink into the ridges of the metal.
Then I applied small (half-grain of rice size) amounts of Ceramique to each chip. Ceramique, unlike a lot of other thermal pastes, is not electrically conductive, which is great for GPU which has the two surfaces so close to each other. Put the heatsinks back on, reassembled, tested, all was well.
Now that I know it works and assuming I can fix the DVD drive (check the link in my sig if you'd like to help), I'll be doing an X-Clamp fix and replacing the cracked case.
Post by: stevenh78 on December 09, 2008, 10:40:00 AM
A question - should I remove the glue around the GPU holding it to the motherboard to allow it to reseat better? Was thinking if the glue had melted or something in the past and the chip is sitting a little higher causing no contact at the bottom, then no matter how much I heat it, it's not likely to reform the contact unless I push down on it while the glue is soft, however as mentioned in the previous pages, this seems dangerous to do...
Post by: stevenh78 on December 09, 2008, 03:37:00 PM
Post by: paveynick on December 09, 2008, 04:27:00 PM
QUOTE(stevenh78 @ Dec 10 2008, 01:13 AM)
3 of the big caps seems burnt and 2 small caps look damaged as well
Isolate a bit better maybe? Use foil, hide those caps
Post by: oldmike on December 10, 2008, 08:54:00 AM
Post by: oldmike on December 12, 2008, 06:46:00 AM
Post by: kimimaro277 on December 12, 2008, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: bakelo on December 13, 2008, 07:06:00 AM
im about to give up... i open the xbox's box and i add 12 fan to cool teh console.. i'm bloody sure heat is not the issue... i can touch the GPU and CPU heatsink, the ANA, southbridge and RAM with barehand.... when i playin the game and its barely warm.
God, spare me.. i only want to play video games...
Post by: crxdriver on December 17, 2008, 05:00:00 PM
My solder is now golden, on the GPU and on HANA, so I guess I did it correctly. Off course, I didn't kick the board during all of this. I'm not into electronics, but I measured all the capacitors near GPU and HANA and all of them looks fine, so I don't understand where is that sound coming from (i don't remember it on a working console).
Also, I don't get the use of that isolation, I have the same one as in the tutorial, and it was all gone, like vanished
, and it is all because of a foil which just transfers all the heat all over the board, so I don't get the use of a foil either, It just can mess up the isolation and any plastic parts near it, like my eject and wifi button. There must be some real isolation material to be used for this.thanks
Post by: kimimaro277 on December 19, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: crxdriver on December 19, 2008, 12:14:00 PM
Here is the picture of the GPU. Look at the left side, you can see those bumps.
Post by: kimimaro277 on December 20, 2008, 12:34:00 AM
The first one was perfect but the second 360 I didn't insulate it properly and two caps became slightly bigger.
Either your heatgun is too hot or you put it too close to the motherboard.
And I've never seen the solder joints changed color. Let alone melt the back side while heating the front side.
As for making your motherboard to work again, I'm clueless. Sorry that i couldn't be more helpful.
Post by: Danny-boy on December 20, 2008, 06:22:00 AM
QUOTE(crxdriver @ Dec 19 2008, 07:50 PM)
Is it normal to melt the solder under the board when heatgunning the top side ?
Here is the picture of the GPU. Look at the left side, you can see those bumps.
If mine looked like that, I would be worried!!
The solder should only soften enough to re-connect with the mobo again, and definatley one side at a time not both at once.
As for repair, I really wouldn't know.
I think you over did it mate.
As michael Cain once said " You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off"
Post by: bonzof.pl on December 20, 2008, 06:42:00 AM
http://cgi.ebay.de/X...e...A1|240:1318
,, Sie bieten hier auf ein defektes Xbox 360 Mainboard ( Motherboard, Hauptplatine ), ich habe das Mainboard mt ROD gekauft. Es hatte den Fehler 0022!!! Ich habe versucht den Hotfix mit einem Heißtluftfön durchzuführen, leider ist die GPU etwas zu warm geworden und ein paar Kondensatoren von der Oberseite der GPU sind abgefallen. Das Mainboard lässt sich noch starten und zeigt jetzt den Fehler 0003 ( was soviel heißt wie fehlende Kapazität auf CPU bzw. GPU )!
Natürlich gibt es zu diesem Mainboard den passenden Laufwerkkey dazu. Die passenden Kühler und die Anschaltplatine gibt es in einer seperaten Auktion!
Ich möchte ausdrücklich darauf Hinweisen das es sich hier um eine Privatauktion handelt und ich keinerlei Garantie oder Gewährleistung für dieses Produkt gebe,,
translate google.
Post by: Wilhelm_I on December 20, 2008, 08:02:00 AM
QUOTE(bonzof.pl @ Dec 20 2008, 03:18 PM)
-ye-bay .de
http://cgi.ebay.de/X...e...A1|240:1318
,, Sie bieten hier auf ein defektes Xbox 360 Mainboard ( Motherboard, Hauptplatine ), ich habe das Mainboard mt ROD gekauft. Es hatte den Fehler 0022!!! Ich habe versucht den Hotfix mit einem Heißtluftfön durchzuführen, leider ist die GPU etwas zu warm geworden und ein paar Kondensatoren von der Oberseite der GPU sind abgefallen. Das Mainboard lässt sich noch starten und zeigt jetzt den Fehler 0003 ( was soviel heißt wie fehlende Kapazität auf CPU bzw. GPU )!
Natürlich gibt es zu diesem Mainboard den passenden Laufwerkkey dazu. Die passenden Kühler und die Anschaltplatine gibt es in einer seperaten Auktion!
Ich möchte ausdrücklich darauf Hinweisen das es sich hier um eine Privatauktion handelt und ich keinerlei Garantie oder Gewährleistung für dieses Produkt gebe,,
translate google.
The article is German and I have seen this 360 myself on Ebay yesterday..
However there is no German version for this tutorial so it very unlikely that he has used it since Germans and you are very much alike.
99% of them hate speaking English and freak out when they have to so the chance that he has used this is very very low and if you would have understood this tutorial or have done it yourself you would have figured out that this only happens if you hit the GPU with a hammer...
I would really appreciate if you could stop hating on me because I seriously don't see any reason for your negative attitude, statements and spamming my threads with links to your Polish website.
Come up with something better and then feel free to degrade the work of others but the way you have chosen now is just disrespectful and pathetic...
And I hope you like the PM I sent you...
Post by: kaisek on December 21, 2008, 04:56:00 PM
QUOTE(crxdriver @ Dec 20 2008, 12:25 PM)
I thought so. My Heatgun is obviously too strong. I have another three xboxes left for heatgunning, so I will be more carefull, maybe try 2 minutes on high.
Did you remove all of the old thermal paste from the gpu before heatgunning?
Post by: crxdriver on December 21, 2008, 05:17:00 PM
QUOTE(kaisek @ Dec 22 2008, 01:32 AM)
Did you remove all of the old thermal paste from the gpu before heatgunning?
I didn't clean it perfect, you can see from the picture, I just wanted to try how it goes, but the paste was not on the bubbly places. Today I tried heatgunning the bottom of the board, and I did it 1+3 minutes from around 4 inches away, and again I got bubbles, but this time on the board itself. It is not visible that much, but I can feel it under my fingers. On my heatgun it says 350 degrees (celsius) for speed 1, and 550 degrees for speed 2, and I see everyone has similar temperatures for their heatguns, so I don't understand why is this happening.
Post by: Danny-boy on December 22, 2008, 05:58:00 AM
Post by: Danny-boy on December 22, 2008, 10:03:00 AM
QUOTE(crxdriver @ Dec 22 2008, 01:39 PM)
I'm moving it in fast circles, never stopping in one place. I will try to do it on lower speed only and see what happens. And aside of bubbles, after the heatgunning, that part of the board is slightly darker, like burned, is it normal ?
No, re-read the tutorial on page 1 and its all there. It should look the same after as before. Maybe you should go and buy a new one??
Post by: kaisek on December 22, 2008, 11:56:00 PM
QUOTE(crxdriver @ Dec 22 2008, 06:42 PM)
I just bought this one, it is new
I red a bunch of threads about heatgunning and people are saying that most heatguns hardly make over 220 degrees needed for reflowing, and all of a sudden I have one that burns everything in 3 minutes What make and model of heatgun do you have?
Post by: Desolution on December 23, 2008, 01:31:00 AM
Post by: crxdriver on December 23, 2008, 12:57:00 PM
QUOTE(kaisek @ Dec 23 2008, 08:32 AM)
What make and model of heatgun do you have?
It's Einhell bhp 2000.
I will try on lower speed for 4 minutes on some broken board, and see if it will melt the solder..
Post by: kaisek on December 26, 2008, 06:55:00 PM
QUOTE(Desolution @ Dec 23 2008, 04:07 AM)
I just tried heat gunning a 360 board that couldnt be fixed by x-clamping it however I had a quick question before continuing. I just isolated the caps etc. with some plastic foil and metal foil but when I turned on the heat gun all the tape holding down the foil shriveled and the foil started flapping up. From reading other bits of this thread I decided to stop and find out what tape everyone else uses?
Try the modified "sticky blue" method. It uses putty like "sticky tacks" to cover the caps and also oven bags and aluminum foil to isolate. I've never had a cap blow, the putty stays perfectly intact and the plastic oven bags barely melt.
Sticky Blue method
http://ioverflow.net/xbox360/heatgun1/
edit: the tutorial doesn't mention to use oven bags, but use them. You should be able to find them at a grocery store. Also, fold them in half for extra protection.
Post by: gentleone on January 10, 2009, 03:10:00 PM
Thought i would be clever and use a modified fire sheet to isolate everything, however what I did not realise is that the tape does not stick the sheet properly due to the chemical!!!
Need to think of something else!
Post by: trinca on January 11, 2009, 06:55:00 PM
How did everyone form the aluminum foil around the plastic isolation. This is tougher than it sounds for me.
Do you tape the aluminum down?
Post by: maddog75 on January 14, 2009, 03:15:00 AM
I didn't buy it though it was like 15 bucks instead I am using multiple methods, blue putty, then 2 milimeter drop sheets doubled, wielding apron cut to fit, 2 layers of foil and then finally a disposable cookie sheet cut to fit around it.
Oh I am using oven bags as well forgot to mention that.
Post by: EraserHR on January 30, 2009, 01:48:00 PM
1. Temperatures of my heatgun are 375°C and 500°C for the second step. Is that okay? I assume that 500°C is enough, but is 375 too high for warming up?
2. Should I heatgun both sides? If yes, do I heatgun one side completely, wait till it cools down and then heat the other side or what?
3. Do I wait the mb to completely cool down before I attach the coolers and X Clamp fix again?
4. Do I tape the aluminium foil or just the plastic one?
Post by: terzi91 on March 22, 2009, 12:39:00 PM
I used heat gun with 1 minute warming (about 300 C) + 3 minute. Should I use 4 minutes with full heat (about 500 C).
Post by: nutty600 on March 22, 2009, 01:12:00 PM
as if the xclamp dont fix my 0020 error ill give this a bash, failing that a new 360 !!!
Post by: gepal on April 29, 2009, 02:58:00 AM
Because I don't have a heatgun and didn't wanted to buy one I've decided to look for alternatives.
And yesterday I borrowed AYOUE 710 IR welding station. I did reflow top side of GPU and HANA. 1 min 300C, 2-3 min 480C, then again ~1 min 300C after cool down (~5-7 min) and it worked !!! This morning ~7 hours after reflowing it worked also. Almost forgot to mention that x-clamp fix was applied after reflowing.
I thought about wilhelm's words on cool down time about 40 min, but maybe because using heatgun you heating not exact chip but also surrounding elements and the board itself, so maybe that's why using heatgun system must cool down (much) longer than using IR soldering station.
Any thoughts ?
Because this is first time I even see this equipment (IR welding station) and mine knowledge about electronics is basically only in theory so if anyone think that I did something wrong please don't hesitate and let me know.
This post has been edited by gepal: Apr 29 2009, 10:09 AM
Post by: Screwy1981 on June 10, 2009, 10:11:00 AM
so i heatgunned my xbox and left it for half a hour as stated, now im gettin a 3rr and error code 0022..
this is sayin gpu error or gpu overheating.. i've applied plenty of thermal paste and that so it shouldnt be a problem.. any ideas?
Post by: nagamin on June 10, 2009, 02:17:00 PM
MS repaire facility might using it. It is especially good for Hand Phone.
Post by: MadMaxGR on June 11, 2009, 06:33:00 AM
QUOTE(Screwy1981 @ Jun 10 2009, 07:11 PM)
hi guys, i've just tried heatgunning my xbox xenon motherboard, was getting the e74 at first then red ring with the error code 0101.
so i heatgunned my xbox and left it for half a hour as stated, now im gettin a 3rr and error code 0022..
this is sayin gpu error or gpu overheating.. i've applied plenty of thermal paste and that so it shouldnt be a problem.. any ideas?
Plenty thermal paste doesn't make good! make it even worse. Re-apply the thermal paste but only a thin layer over the chip. Try again and let me know.
Post by: Screwy1981 on June 12, 2009, 10:40:00 AM
QUOTE(MadMaxGR @ Jun 11 2009, 01:33 PM)
Plenty thermal paste doesn't make good! make it even worse. Re-apply the thermal paste but only a thin layer over the chip. Try again and let me know.
completly cleaned the chips of paste.. reapplied usin a tiny blob on each and still the same (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Post by: Screwy1981 on June 18, 2009, 07:18:00 AM
Post by: colt45joe on July 05, 2009, 02:58:00 PM
This post has been edited by colt45joe: Jul 5 2009, 09:59 PM
Post by: Beezerk2001 on October 09, 2009, 08:52:00 AM
I did similar to the original post, however I also heatgunned the bottom of the board to ensure the solder joints are done there as well.
Take care when rebuilding the heatsinks, the washer spacings you use are critical, you can offer up some washers against the chips before you fit the heatshrinks to get an idea of what kind of height you require.
I also left the motherboard unscrewed from the case to make sure there was no extra stress put on it, I have mine laid down when I play anyway so it makes no difference to me.
I'd previously tried the overheating method but that only worked for a week or so.
Fingers crossed it will be more permanent this time
Post by: nerdout on May 06, 2010, 05:02:00 AM
QUOTE(bosnia_9 @ Jul 24 2008, 12:55 PM)
I know first page says do front then back.. but its been said later on in the thread do the back then front.. but either way is alright i guess... but i would first do BACK
No first do the BACK and you dont need to cover anything in the back because your only focusing on a specific area and there is nothing to damage if your careful: Focus on circled area
Do this on 1minute (low/warm up/1st setting on your gun)
4minutes - 2nd option /high
In just normal circles
When you do this for around ~5min TOTAL, leave the board ALONE DONT TOUCH ANYTHING for 45 MINUTES. (id say like 1hour is good)
go get the board and cover everything in the FRONT like those pictures show (using 2 layers.. 1 is the wrap paper/plastic and 2nd layer is aluminum foil (cooking foil))
then heat the front same way focusing on the open area 1min - low setting 4 min is high setting
around ~5min TOTAL leave the board alone for about another 45min (1hour) and dont touch it!
then go take off all the foils off carefully, reapply artic silver 5... do the x clamp fix and play!
Still confused?
Hey bosnia question man, i did a re flow on a 360 i did 1 minute under side on low flipped it over and did high for 4 minutes on the top side, the xbox is still working great and its been a month... i now have a box with the 0013 error, will re flowing this beast fix it?
QUOTE(nutty600 @ Mar 22 2009, 12:12 PM)
cant get hold of a heat gun but will a good hair dryer do the trick ? it a powerful one !
as if the xclamp dont fix my 0020 error ill give this a bash, failing that a new 360 !!!
A hair dryer might work for a few hours/days, but if you want to do it correct use a heat gun. Hair dryers only get up to about 80c~90c, solder melts at 218c~220c i believe.
Post by: purity_2010 on May 26, 2010, 04:22:00 AM
Post by: accat13 on June 19, 2010, 07:20:00 PM
I hope i have succeeded in fixing a no video but sound error.Received this xbox for free so nothing to loose(plus it is now jtagged
.I used aluminum foil,aluminum tape and pink fiberglass insulation as an isolator.The home depot aluminum tape adhesive sure started to smoke.When the tape lifted, as I was heating it up I was a little concerned.I may not have lasted the complete 4 min LOL.All that smoke was starting to get me concerned.All seems well so far though my son has been playing for a few hours with no errors.I think with the variety of heat guns and there temperature variations plus fan speeds 4 min. must be an average good time that seems to be ok for all..Well I have my fingers crossed that this is more of a long term fix then the xclamp replacement 12v mod combo.Thanks all for the previous tips and postings concerning above
Post by: nafeasonto on August 04, 2010, 07:40:00 AM
You do NOT need to heat up the entire board. I have had two Xbox 360's go RROD, (my main one, and my jtag one, my friends and others.)
90 % of the time it's the GPU. I don't have a reflow station soo..
This is all I do:
Complete remove all heatsinks from mainboard.
I literally HOVER the heatgun above the GPU for EXACTLY 60 seconds. NO less no more. You will see the entire board bend to accommodate the broken solder joint. The solder will become malleable underneath the GPU. Do not touch the GPU, do not push on it, NOTHING OR IT WILL GO BYE BYE. AS you will smush the solder joints. THEN you def need a professional reflow.
Then I have literally left the xbox alone for 30 minutes. ALONE NO TOUCH. Don't even move the table your on NOTHING. OR you WILL destroy the board.
Then I just x clamp the hell out of it, and what do you know it works. So far with this method both my xboxs have been working for a YEAR. Whether it e79, 0102, whatever. This works. And my friends have never had any issues either.
Doing this "super" method is a WASTE of time. Unless your CPU truely has a broken solder joint, otherwise just focus on the ONE area the has the issue.
60 Seconds NO MORE NO LESS ON HIGH. Any longer and you risk burning the board, and blowing a cap.
Oh by the way, none of my caps EVER puff from this method. As long as the heat is focused.
Post by: PeteBest on August 14, 2010, 04:57:00 AM
Post by: Locohead on August 23, 2010, 10:44:00 PM
Pete, some questions since you had success:
- Had you previously tried anything else to fix those machines (such as x-clamp replacement & normal overheat)?
- How many inches did you hold the heatgun from the board?
- How intense would you describe the "burning smell" from the board, if any?
I can try my board again and I also have another, un-heatgunned board to try. I'm leaning towards the traditional isolated heatgun method since naf's method did nothing for me (or worse.)
Post by: PeteBest on August 25, 2010, 10:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Locohead @ Aug 24 2010, 05:44 AM)
- Had you previously tried anything else to fix those machines (such as x-clamp replacement & normal overheat)?
Yeah, I'm a bit lazy so I always try the easiest options first. I tried xclamps on both systems first of all, neither stayed on long enough to be able to do the GPU overheating trick.
QUOTE(Locohead @ Aug 24 2010, 05:44 AM)
- How many inches did you hold the heatgun from the board?
About 2-3 I guess, constantly moving the heatgun.
QUOTE(Locohead @ Aug 24 2010, 05:44 AM)
- How intense would you describe the "burning smell" from the board, if any?
Yeah, there was a bit of a burning smell, but I always use liquid flux whenever I use the heatgun, so that might be making the smell.
The system with the 0102 error has got some graphical corruption now, so I've got to look at that again. It wouldn't even make it to the dash before I looked at it, so I'm at least one step further.
Post by: norite on September 01, 2010, 09:48:00 AM
1) The motherboard *must* be bolted down to something. otherwise it will warp and there's a very good chance that the solder underneath the gpu or cpu or both will merge, still giving you the RRoD and possibly with a different error code. And once this happens, no amount of reflowing in the world will fix it....the only way to fix that is to have the chips removed and reballed.
2) You *must* make use of a temperature probe/thermocouple to carefully monitor the temperatures. Lead free melts at about 220C so you must achieve this temp underneath the gpu for a few seconds. just guessing at 4 minutes or so is no way to gauge what's going on.
3) You *must* use some sort of preheater underneath the board first, and keep it hot during the reflow. The bottom of the board should get to around 150C.. Otherwise only one side of the board will get hot, the heat wiill be unevenly distributed and you won't get a good reflow.
4) There is no need for the heavy bubble wrap and other insulation. A small square cut into a sheet of foil, small enough to expose the gpu but big enough to cover the whole board and taped down around the gpu with electrical tape or some other heat resistant tape is enough.
5) In 99.99% of cases, it's the solder under the gpu that needs repairing. Exposing the cpu, ram, southbridge and blasting all these with heat and no idea of the temperatures is a really good way to break something else...
6)For any kind of rework/reflow stuff, some sort of flux *must* be used, it 'wets' the solder and helps it stick properly, forming a good join.
Follow this tutorial at your peril...!