Post by: Tobeme on November 14, 2010, 01:11:00 PM
[2010-11-14 04:08PM] <******> is black ops as safe as any other game before the dash update?
[2010-11-14 04:09PM] <c4eva> ******:yes
[2010-11-14 04:19PM] <***> for slim what kind of real time checks are we talking about?
[2010-11-14 04:19PM] <c4eva> ***:realtime fw check,realtime ram check!
[2010-11-14 04:25PM] <c4eva> they are checking for our code/data in drive!
[2010-11-14 XX:XXXX] <*********> c4 can we expect lt+ this side of christmas?
[2010-11-14 XX:XXXX] <c4eva> *********:yes
Post by: shaun57 on November 14, 2010, 02:27:00 PM
Post by: jeppe777 on November 14, 2010, 02:39:00 PM
Post by: The_Doctor on November 14, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: shaun57 on November 14, 2010, 02:45:00 PM
what does 'this side of christmas' mean?
before cristmas
The_Doctor Posted Today, 09:41 PM
so is black ops ssv2 or ssv3?
aye belive its ssv2 as you can boot it on the latest dashboard but aye am not a 100%
Post by: Slavcik on November 14, 2010, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: green360 on November 14, 2010, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: tomgreen99200 on November 14, 2010, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 14, 2010, 07:51:00 PM
after all its got no ap 2.5 anyway and hitachi is so hated by them so far no lt even never mind lt+, but still impressive work, im guessing they are going to prioritize the new slim code though 
oh well great work anyway best off luck with it all
Post by: danthaman673 on November 14, 2010, 07:55:00 PM
I still contend that Black-Ops is AP 2.5 capable (It would be nice if there was a reliable test, as C4eva said Xex flags appear to be unreliable) Even if the TU hasn't dropped yet (it might come soon though - or maybe they're going for a mid-december ban wave this year to throw us off a bit) It would probably just flag ur box anyway (as opposed to preventing game from booting)
Brgds/Dan
This post has been edited by danthaman673: Nov 15 2010, 03:58 AM
Post by: mattym123 on November 14, 2010, 09:14:00 PM
Post by: ibbi on November 14, 2010, 09:57:00 PM
Post by: Paperstack.1 on November 14, 2010, 10:52:00 PM
Post by: SQiX on November 15, 2010, 12:06:00 AM
Post by: kobe2424 on November 15, 2010, 01:08:00 AM
jeppe777 Posted Today, 09:39 PM
what does 'this side of christmas' mean?
before cristmas
does that mean for the benq and liteon to lt+ will be out before christmas
Post by: tripkip on November 15, 2010, 02:07:00 AM
For example take black ops, it's SSV2. So imagine LT+ comes out.
All good we can play our backups online.
Now a few days later there is an update for black ops enabling AP25.
Does this mean we'd need to modify the image and reburn it?
Thumbs up for you Commodore4EVA! Good luck.
Post by: danthaman673 on November 15, 2010, 02:33:00 AM
QUOTE(tripkip @ Nov 15 2010, 06:37 PM) 
I'm wondering the following:
For example take black ops, it's SSV2. So imagine LT+ comes out.
All good we can play our backups online.
Now a few days later there is an update for black ops enabling AP25.
Does this mean we'd need to modify the image and reburn it?
Thumbs up for you Commodore4EVA! Good luck.
Yes, new 0800 and possibly new XBC as I said ages ago
QUOTE
just hope that no new hardware would be involved for updating to LT+ for fat 360s
No, Not likely for the slim either (Although using external power eg; CK3 mk3 or similar is strongly recommended for other reasons)
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 15, 2010, 02:38:00 AM
yes every game that is capable of ss v3 could in theory recieve a title update with a new xex to add ap 2.5 to a once non ap 2.5 disk
yes if ap 2.5 is added via a title update you will eighter have to play offline with no updates or reburn with ss3 data
hopefully a "respected" member will confirm these, but im 100% sure this is the case, dispite it seems impracticle for them to get publishers to make patches to add ap 2.5 to all games since fifa 09 but i bet all the popular games will such as cod and halo and such, just to get some more flags ready for next OMG 1 billion players banned from live event lol
This post has been edited by gamesquest1: Nov 15 2010, 10:39 AM
Post by: uksparky32 on November 15, 2010, 04:59:00 AM
QUOTE(gamesquest1 @ Nov 15 2010, 09:38 AM)
right just as i have read it there is a software method for flashing the new slim drives, which has already been confirmed,
Where's this been confirmed?
Post by: Spark on November 15, 2010, 05:37:00 AM
Post by: JIME01 on November 15, 2010, 06:26:00 AM
Can we play Black Ops and other backups that do not have AP2.5 online with the latest LT?
If I have a BenQ spoofed as a Lite-On.. how to fuck do I upgrade to LT+? Just spoof the spoofed FW with LT+?
Some knowledgable member please answer these two.. Cheers.
Post by: cypher21 on November 15, 2010, 06:54:00 AM
QUOTE(JIME01 @ Nov 15 2010, 01:26 PM)
My only two questions...
Can we play Black Ops and other backups that do not have AP2.5 online with the latest LT?
If I have a BenQ spoofed as a Lite-On.. how to fuck do I upgrade to LT+? Just spoof the spoofed FW with LT+? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Some knowledgable member please answer these two.. Cheers.
yes, so far you can play all non ap2.5 games with the latest LT online. (as said a couple posts above, this might change, but who knows)
afaik, ap2.5 checks for the osig, so get yourself a spare lite-on and flash it with LT+ when it comes. As already known for a long time spoofing is detectable and not recommended. If ap2.5 checks osig as well, spoofed drives will not boot that game
This post has been edited by cypher21: Nov 15 2010, 02:55 PM
Post by: rfisher1968 on November 15, 2010, 07:41:00 AM
Post by: cypher21 on November 15, 2010, 07:48:00 AM
Post by: x Yo1nK x on November 15, 2010, 07:54:00 AM
Post by: re4de2ye0 on November 15, 2010, 08:32:00 AM
Post by: Buzzcut on November 15, 2010, 08:40:00 AM
When LT+ comes out for the various drives later this year the AP2.5 discs will then start to work.
This post has been edited by Buzzcut: Nov 15 2010, 04:43 PM
Post by: dan_uk777 on November 15, 2010, 08:41:00 AM
QUOTE(re4de2ye0 @ Nov 15 2010, 05:32 PM)
Quick, probably dumb question...If I am already banned, and play strictly offline, will I be affected at all by this? Will I still be able to play my backups without having to update to the new dash? I was getting ready to flash a friends box for him as well, and I just wanted to get a little clearer picture about we are looking at. Thanks in advance,
simple answer no. If you have to ever update the dash then you would have to do it via the update on the disc as the game would require it and would tell you and everything should be fine, that is how it has been so far.... If of course you chose not to update the dash(dunno why u would chose not to when you would have to) then of course you would have to find alternative ways/methods of running the game.
As for the newer games.....we cant play them yet until the new LT+ firmware is out
This post has been edited by dan_uk777: Nov 15 2010, 04:42 PM
Post by: satansgutter on November 15, 2010, 08:49:00 AM
QUOTE(SQiX @ Nov 15 2010, 07:06 AM)
So if you system has the latest FW and you are playing a real copy of the game are you in any trouble of being banned? I updated the dash but I haven't played any backups recently... Black Ops but it was a legit disc and getting NFS:HP and AC:BH tomorrow
From what I've been reading the last week or two, as soon as you update to the latest dash you can be flagged for banning, regardless of booting any disc. You can check using XVal 2.0, search the forums on how to use it and where to get it.
I'm happy it should get released this side of xmas! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Where can I donate to him?
Post by: xbox990 on November 15, 2010, 09:11:00 AM
Does anyone think its likely you can spoof a Lite-on in place of the v78/79 Hitachi and pass the ap2.5 challenge with LT+ on the Lite-on?
Does the dash check which drive should be there, or does it just assume the right drive is there a send the ap2.5 challenge? is the challenge the same on all compatible drives?
So basically can you swap an ap2.5 compatible drive for a different make ap2.5 compatible drive and get away with it ?
im not sure how spoofing works ive only ever replaced faulty drives with the same make/model drives. which i assume is ok
Post by: Syn201 on November 15, 2010, 11:25:00 AM
QUOTE(xbox990 @ Nov 15 2010, 06:11 PM)
if LT+ doesn't come for Hitachi, and Hitachi 78/79 support ap2.5. <- is this a fact?
Does anyone think its likely you can spoof a Lite-on in place of the v78/79 Hitachi and pass the ap2.5 challenge with LT+ on the Lite-on?
Does the dash check which drive should be there, or does it just assume the right drive is there a send the ap2.5 challenge? is the challenge the same on all compatible drives?
So basically can you swap an ap2.5 compatible drive for a different make ap2.5 compatible drive and get away with it ?
im not sure how spoofing works ive only ever replaced faulty drives with the same make/model drives. which i assume is ok
No it probably fail the osig check ..
Post by: cironaldo12 on November 15, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
The new lt +, will only be available at Benq player, and then I will have to change the reader?
Post by: thecoo1est on November 15, 2010, 12:38:00 PM
QUOTE(xbox990 @ Nov 15 2010, 05:11 PM)
if LT+ doesn't come for Hitachi, and Hitachi 78/79 support ap2.5. <- is this a fact?
Does anyone think its likely you can spoof a Lite-on in place of the v78/79 Hitachi and pass the ap2.5 challenge with LT+ on the Lite-on?
Does the dash check which drive should be there, or does it just assume the right drive is there a send the ap2.5 challenge? is the challenge the same on all compatible drives?
So basically can you swap an ap2.5 compatible drive for a different make ap2.5 compatible drive and get away with it ?
im not sure how spoofing works ive only ever replaced faulty drives with the same make/model drives. which i assume is ok
Well I have a lite-on drive with lt, I updated to the new dash and and you know the rest. I dont ever play on live, all I want to do is play the game. I took a Hitachi out of my old rrod its a 58/59 or whatever, I flash the lite on key to the hitachi drive and tried it in the xbox, still gets same disc read error, but the old games wave 6 and below are fine, Anyway, I know you cant get around it that way. If there is anything to do to bypass this I dont care how because I never hook to the internet. I just want something that will work.
This post has been edited by thecoo1est: Nov 15 2010, 08:40 PM
Post by: EZYESS57 on November 15, 2010, 01:37:00 PM
QUOTE(satansgutter @ Nov 15 2010, 09:49 AM)
From what I've been reading the last week or two, as soon as you update to the latest dash you can be flagged for banning, regardless of booting any disc. You can check using XVal 2.0, search the forums on how to use it and where to get it.
I'm happy it should get released this side of xmas! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Where can I donate to him?
According to C4E's first update, the dashboard update itself seems to be OK, unless I've missed something along the way.
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 15, 2010, 01:53:00 PM
QUOTE(uksparky32 @ Nov 15 2010, 11:59 AM)
Where's this been confirmed?
was confirmed on here quite a while back
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=722334
and i read somewhere else that they are now using a similar method for LT/LT+ for slims as it was originally going to be a hardware mod untill this method was found
This post has been edited by gamesquest1: Nov 15 2010, 09:55 PM
Post by: PorquinhoBranco on November 15, 2010, 02:08:00 PM
I´ll be receiving a Kinect next week and I would like to know if the kinect games do have ap25!
I´ve been reading about Fable, AC Brotherhood and Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, but no info about the games designed to work with kinect and launched so far to have ap25!
Post by: willemoke on November 15, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: TheDarkness on November 15, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
QUOTE
and Hitachi 78/79 support ap2.5. <- is this a fact?
Not in my case...
Opened up my non-banned box earlier (ix1.6) to check which drive it had. It's the Hitachi 79 (fl). Updated it to new dash via Live a week ago. Was curious to see if back-up of Fable III would run and/or flag it.
Can confirm that on my Hitachi 79, running ix1.6, with the latest dash via Live, plays Fable III no problem. Came back out of Fable and ran XVAL, secdata is still clean.
Post by: rabarone on November 15, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 15, 2010, 03:31:00 PM
P.s i know i might get flamed with people saying if you update the dash you may get flagged if you try to run ap.25 games on a non ap2.5 compatable firmware, but the simple fact is ...dont try
This post has been edited by gamesquest1: Nov 15 2010, 11:34 PM
Post by: rabarone on November 15, 2010, 03:36:00 PM
QUOTE(gamesquest1 @ Nov 15 2010, 11:31 PM)
update the dash it hold no bearing this is all to do with dvd firmware and games themselves
P.s i know i might get flamed with people saying if you update the dash you may get flagged if you try to run ap.25 games on a non ap2.5 compatable firmware, but the simple fact is ...dont try
then you think better wait for the new fw, to update the new dashboard ???
Post by: lrod2344 on November 15, 2010, 04:13:00 PM
regarding the discs themselves....
If a disc (Black Ops) that was STORE BOUGHT is SSV2.... and somewhere down the line there is a title update from MS enabling AP25..... this update would be stored on the hard drive as there is NO WAY (as far as I know) for an UPDATE from MS to MODIFY a READ ONLY disc to now have SSV3 on the disc itself..... so if I then take that same disc and place it in a console that did not have this AP25 Update that disc would then revert back to its original SSV2 state.....
Sooooooooo........ wouldnt the same hold true for a Backup of the same game?
Isnt a disc that is SSV2 to begin with ALWAYS going to be SSV2?
Isnt AP25 a Challenge/Response system against the Drive?
Maybe Im missing something here.
what is the connection between SSV2, SSV3 and AP25?
And Finally Is the New ABGX a reliable AP25 check...Ive re-checked a few games and The SIMS 3 doesnt show as AP25 (as reported) Neither Does Black Ops but Fable III and NFS Hot Pursuit DO show as "AntiPiracy25 Media" ....Should we Assume that any iso that "Accesses Personally Identifiable Information PII" are AP25 aware/capable.... or are ALL titles AP25 aware/capable?
This post has been edited by lrod2344: Nov 16 2010, 12:16 AM
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 15, 2010, 05:15:00 PM
so if a new title update updates the xex to only boot from ap2.5 disks burnt disks would now not boot as they would fail ap 2.5 ofcourse this is all dependant on you actually installing the title update and removing the update from the hard drive would return the game to ap 2.
but you need the latest update to play on live with any game
and you would also run the risk of getting flagged for failing the check
all i get from all this is to be cautious acepting any new title updates....especially if its for no reason and also consider not using any know ap 2.5 games for the mean time , im also wanting to know if there is any definitive ways to check for ap 2.5 within xex files themselves not just going off a list of know ap 2.5 games as i want to be sure they can indeed enable the checks with a title update
This post has been edited by gamesquest1: Nov 16 2010, 01:20 AM
Post by: z24mbb on November 15, 2010, 05:46:00 PM
Post by: chrissyd on November 15, 2010, 06:42:00 PM
Post by: Nombrrr1 on November 15, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(chrissyd @ Nov 15 2010, 05:42 PM)
nevermind when the LT+ will be released (in its own due time) but is it gonna be free or like we had a while ago with someone trying to milk it for keys?
Either way it will be free eventually. The person who deciphered what was necessary for LT to operate was used to confirm another groups work. Another group encoded a message then sent it to him and he returned it back to them decrypted and the same message as before
It will be free one way or another.
Post by: tekno123 on November 15, 2010, 08:40:00 PM
Post by: xbox360sexual on November 15, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
Post by: chatterx on November 15, 2010, 09:27:00 PM
Keep up the good work.
Post by: cypher21 on November 15, 2010, 10:23:00 PM
QUOTE(xbox360sexual @ Nov 16 2010, 03:46 AM)
You'd need the same revision seeing as the strings are different, I would imagine
No, any lite on will do fine.
Since you can't spoof liteons, you flash the complete firmware of the drive
Post by: Zod5000 on November 15, 2010, 11:48:00 PM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 15 2010, 04:13 PM)
I have a question.... and understand I am by NO MEANS a newbie.... but this isa bit confusing even for me....
regarding the discs themselves....
If a disc (Black Ops) that was STORE BOUGHT is SSV2.... and somewhere down the line there is a title update from MS enabling AP25..... this update would be stored on the hard drive as there is NO WAY (as far as I know) for an UPDATE from MS to MODIFY a READ ONLY disc to now have SSV3 on the disc itself..... so if I then take that same disc and place it in a console that did not have this AP25 Update that disc would then revert back to its original SSV2 state.....
Sooooooooo........ wouldnt the same hold true for a Backup of the same game?
Isnt a disc that is SSV2 to begin with ALWAYS going to be SSV2?
Isnt AP25 a Challenge/Response system against the Drive?
Maybe Im missing something here.
what is the connection between SSV2, SSV3 and AP25?
And Finally Is the New ABGX a reliable AP25 check...Ive re-checked a few games and The SIMS 3 doesnt show as AP25 (as reported) Neither Does Black Ops but Fable III and NFS Hot Pursuit DO show as "AntiPiracy25 Media" ....Should we Assume that any iso that "Accesses Personally Identifiable Information PII" are AP25 aware/capable.... or are ALL titles AP25 aware/capable?
I don't think you quite understand the SS files. The SS files are designed to emulate the response and original disc would give out. SSV3 will now emulate the response an original disc would give under the new ap2.5 tech.
Originals themselves don't have these SS files. The different generation of SS files hold info to emulate responses to make MS think they are originals. Thats why originals have been immune to banning because no emulation needs to be done, only to trick backups into looking like originals.
Post by: lrod2344 on November 16, 2010, 05:37:00 AM
From the se7ensins forums:
Difference between a RETAIL game and a BACKUP (burned copy):
Retail discs include a security layer that a DVD burner cannot reproduce. When making a copy of the retail disc that security info can be read and stored but cannot be rewritten on the backup the same way it existed on the original retail disc. That is why you must have a modified firmware (flashed xbox) that will be able to read/respond to that security information even if it is not stored in the same way as an original retail disc. This is what SSv1 and SSv2 refer to, the way the backup stores the security info to be read by the flashed xbox drive.
AP25 and YOU:
First off, FIFA 09 is not an AP25 title. Currently the only AP25 titles are Fable 3 and Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.
What is AP25? Anti-Piracy 2.5 Simply put, its an updated security layer on both the disc and in the game files.
There is a lot of confusion on how AP25 actually works, many people just make something up or attempt to make it sound far more technical (scarier) than it really is.
Like the security system outlined above AP25 should work in the same way but with an added check. When you attempt to boot the game AP25 kicks in and asks the DVD drive to check some things on another security layer. If you have a backup of an AP25 title in the drive this check will fail because those security layers do not exist on the backup. Because AP25 is new, the current LT firmware does not have the ability to fake a response or look somewhere else for this security info if you are trying to play a backup copy. If you have the original retail disc in the drive the AP25 check will pass because the drive is able to location the security layer and return the proper response. When LT+ is released it should support this new security feature and be able to answer future AP25 checks without the retail disc. This is being referred to as SSv3 (our new fake security layer for backups).
**Ok, so without LT+ if I want to play an AP25 game like Fable 3 I need the retail disc?:
Yes.
What about the Nov. 1 Dash update? (Kinect Dash):
Dash update is safe. The only reason an old dashboard will not fail an AP25 check and the new dashboard will is old dashboards do not support the new security feature. Basically before the dashboard update on Nov.1 the 360 didn't look for AP25 because it didn't know it was supposed to. The new dashboard now has that support built in. Other than that, its just a dashboard update.
Why do people say Samsung and Hitachi drives are safe? Is my LiteOn/BenQ not safe?:
Some drives may be physically unable to read this new security layer (AP25 layer) and thus are considered "safe" from the new AP25 checks. LiteOn and BenQ drives are able to read this information and when asked by an AP25 title they will.
So, can I replace my 360's drive with a Samsung to be safe?
No. A drive is locked to the 360 it shipped with and cannot be swapped out. There is a method known as "spoofing"(copying some of the drive info to make the xbox think its the original) that will allow another drive to work. This is NOT a safe way to avoid AP25 checks. Even though the drive works, when an AP25 title asks for the check to be performed, your xbox will still "think" it has the original drive, so if it was a LiteOn or BenQ before then it will attempt to check even if it can't. If the check doesn't pass then your xbox will fail.
What happens if I fail an AP25 check?:
If you happen to fail and AP25 check for any reason your xbox will record this failure and your console will report back to MS that this check has failed. Currently it is believed Microsoft is collecting data for another ban wave using this information. Being flagged doesn't guarantee a ban, but MS is aware that your xbox did not pass.
I've also heard AP25 could be added to older games with a title update?! Is this true?:
Yes and No.
AP25 checks could only be added if the original disc had an AP25 security layer to begin with.
**If I fail an AP25 check will it prevent me from playing other backups?
No. When an AP25 title fails the test it does in fact return an unreadable/dirty disc error. Essentially, it is looking for something that cannot be found on the disc so the error comes back as unreadable/dirty disc. This is ONLY for the failed AP25 title and will ONLY happen on the backup. If you failed an AP25 check with say a Fable III backup, you can play with the retail disc just fine because when it looks for the AP25 information it will find it. Failing the AP25 check will not prevent other non-AP25 titles from playing nor will it prevent you from playing legit retail copies of the AP25 title even after failure. There is no corruption or dirty MS tricks involved with this, the backup disc you are attempting to play (AP25 title) really is unreadable since the AP25 data isn't there.
**Will the upcoming LT+ software fix my AP25 failure flag?
No. When LT+ is available and flashed on the console, even after a failed AP25 check, your backup AP25 title should then become readable as the drive can now look elsewhere for that stored AP25 response information. I do not expect the flag to be removed after flashing with LT+ due to the fact you can currently pass the AP25 check using a retail disc but the flag will remain if you failed the check prior. Think of the Xval(secdata) like the Windows Event Log. When an error occurs it records the error in the log for the Admin (in this case Microsoft / XBLive) to look at. What MS chooses to do with that information is still up in the air.
**As Jester pointed out in this thread, you can also write protect the NAND to prevent the xbox from being able to log security events such as failing the AP25 check. It will not bypass the check but if you were to fail the check it would not record the failure for future reporting to MS next time you are online. A guide for this will be added soon however it is recommended, unless you feel safe soldering things to the xbox motherboard, that you stick to double-checking your iso's before tossing the disc into the drive. If you xbox is already banned this may be of use to you as well.
If there are other general questions I missed please post them and I will attempt to answer them.
If any of the above info is incorrect and you have proof to support that I will be happy to edit this "FAQ" with the new information. Posting that you read somewhere or giving me a link to another forum is not proof but the reason I wrote this. Too much information is made up or misinterpreted causing more scare and panic than necessary. There are always going to be security improvements made, AP25 is just one of them. I only know how the system works on a basic level. I do not have any information on how AP25 request/reponse data is generated. It could be a general system (all games store the same values, the check just serves and a secondary check to the original check) as the ones before it or it could be a game-by-game basis (individual games have their own AP25 values). Do NOT post responses based only on what you have heard. If you have direct or personal knowledge on how these security systems work, feel free.
Post by: aswilbourn on November 16, 2010, 05:42:00 AM
Post by: giblet on November 16, 2010, 05:49:00 AM
Post by: dan_uk777 on November 16, 2010, 06:34:00 AM
Best post ive seen so far. Nice 1
You couldn't be any clearer than that. I hope LT+ gets released soon!
Post by: Smok3y666 on November 16, 2010, 06:56:00 AM
Post by: Buzzcut on November 16, 2010, 07:02:00 AM
[*********] my fable 3 doesnt show AP25 in ABGX???
[******] *********: Fable III doesn't have that flag
[c4eva] with new dash xex flag is irrelevant!
[******] yeah, so that becomes an unreliable method to determine
Post by: greedy_boy_3 on November 16, 2010, 07:08:00 AM
Still, I don't understand how c4eva can be close to completing LT+, as we only know of about 3 discs that use AP2.5. So somehow he has determined from a small sample of discs (and some XBOX Live traffic I guess) exactly how AP2.5 does and will work in the near future (one assumes).
I assume that LT+ essentially has a map which links locations on a pressed disc's new security layer to locations on an SSv3 backup (where the SSv3 data locations are determined by the ripping firmware). Is this correct?
It was suggested a while back that AP2.5 might be impossible to combat due to an infinite number of possible challenges. Could someone please explain/clarify this suggestion? I understand that a challenge could ask for any piece of data from the new security layer, but I don't understand how it would ever be impossible to combat, assuming that this layer's data is burned to a backup disc (albeit on one of the regular two data layers on a DL DVDR) and a map exists (embedded within LT+) between pressed disc data locations and backup disc data locations. Anyway, I assume that this isn't an actual problem as c4eva claims that LT+ beats AP2.5 period, or does he?
Any help would be appeciated,
H
This post has been edited by greedy_boy_3: Nov 16 2010, 03:18 PM
Post by: Smok3y666 on November 16, 2010, 07:12:00 AM
Post by: ezio911 on November 16, 2010, 07:12:00 AM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 16 2010, 01:37 PM)
So This Is What Ive Found.... A quick goole did the trick.... looks like I was right AND wrong....
From the se7ensins forums:
Difference between a RETAIL game and a BACKUP (burned copy):
Retail discs include a security layer that a DVD burner cannot reproduce. When making a copy of the retail disc that security info can be read and stored but cannot be rewritten on the backup the same way it existed on the original retail disc. That is why you must have a modified firmware (flashed xbox) that will be able to read/respond to that security information even if it is not stored in the same way as an original retail disc. This is what SSv1 and SSv2 refer to, the way the backup stores the security info to be read by the flashed xbox drive.
AP25 and YOU:
First off, FIFA 09 is not an AP25 title. Currently the only AP25 titles are Fable 3 and Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.
What is AP25? Anti-Piracy 2.5 Simply put, its an updated security layer on both the disc and in the game files.
There is a lot of confusion on how AP25 actually works, many people just make something up or attempt to make it sound far more technical (scarier) than it really is.
Like the security system outlined above AP25 should work in the same way but with an added check. When you attempt to boot the game AP25 kicks in and asks the DVD drive to check some things on another security layer. If you have a backup of an AP25 title in the drive this check will fail because those security layers do not exist on the backup. Because AP25 is new, the current LT firmware does not have the ability to fake a response or look somewhere else for this security info if you are trying to play a backup copy. If you have the original retail disc in the drive the AP25 check will pass because the drive is able to location the security layer and return the proper response. When LT+ is released it should support this new security feature and be able to answer future AP25 checks without the retail disc. This is being referred to as SSv3 (our new fake security layer for backups).
**Ok, so without LT+ if I want to play an AP25 game like Fable 3 I need the retail disc?:
Yes.
What about the Nov. 1 Dash update? (Kinect Dash):
Dash update is safe. The only reason an old dashboard will not fail an AP25 check and the new dashboard will is old dashboards do not support the new security feature. Basically before the dashboard update on Nov.1 the 360 didn't look for AP25 because it didn't know it was supposed to. The new dashboard now has that support built in. Other than that, its just a dashboard update.
Why do people say Samsung and Hitachi drives are safe? Is my LiteOn/BenQ not safe?:
Some drives may be physically unable to read this new security layer (AP25 layer) and thus are considered "safe" from the new AP25 checks. LiteOn and BenQ drives are able to read this information and when asked by an AP25 title they will.
So, can I replace my 360's drive with a Samsung to be safe?
No. A drive is locked to the 360 it shipped with and cannot be swapped out. There is a method known as "spoofing"(copying some of the drive info to make the xbox think its the original) that will allow another drive to work. This is NOT a safe way to avoid AP25 checks. Even though the drive works, when an AP25 title asks for the check to be performed, your xbox will still "think" it has the original drive, so if it was a LiteOn or BenQ before then it will attempt to check even if it can't. If the check doesn't pass then your xbox will fail.
What happens if I fail an AP25 check?:
If you happen to fail and AP25 check for any reason your xbox will record this failure and your console will report back to MS that this check has failed. Currently it is believed Microsoft is collecting data for another ban wave using this information. Being flagged doesn't guarantee a ban, but MS is aware that your xbox did not pass.
I've also heard AP25 could be added to older games with a title update?! Is this true?:
Yes and No.
AP25 checks could only be added if the original disc had an AP25 security layer to begin with.
**If I fail an AP25 check will it prevent me from playing other backups?
No. When an AP25 title fails the test it does in fact return an unreadable/dirty disc error. Essentially, it is looking for something that cannot be found on the disc so the error comes back as unreadable/dirty disc. This is ONLY for the failed AP25 title and will ONLY happen on the backup. If you failed an AP25 check with say a Fable III backup, you can play with the retail disc just fine because when it looks for the AP25 information it will find it. Failing the AP25 check will not prevent other non-AP25 titles from playing nor will it prevent you from playing legit retail copies of the AP25 title even after failure. There is no corruption or dirty MS tricks involved with this, the backup disc you are attempting to play (AP25 title) really is unreadable since the AP25 data isn't there.
**Will the upcoming LT+ software fix my AP25 failure flag?
No. When LT+ is available and flashed on the console, even after a failed AP25 check, your backup AP25 title should then become readable as the drive can now look elsewhere for that stored AP25 response information. I do not expect the flag to be removed after flashing with LT+ due to the fact you can currently pass the AP25 check using a retail disc but the flag will remain if you failed the check prior. Think of the Xval(secdata) like the Windows Event Log. When an error occurs it records the error in the log for the Admin (in this case Microsoft / XBLive) to look at. What MS chooses to do with that information is still up in the air.
**As Jester pointed out in this thread, you can also write protect the NAND to prevent the xbox from being able to log security events such as failing the AP25 check. It will not bypass the check but if you were to fail the check it would not record the failure for future reporting to MS next time you are online. A guide for this will be added soon however it is recommended, unless you feel safe soldering things to the xbox motherboard, that you stick to double-checking your iso's before tossing the disc into the drive. If you xbox is already banned this may be of use to you as well.
If there are other general questions I missed please post them and I will attempt to answer them.
If any of the above info is incorrect and you have proof to support that I will be happy to edit this "FAQ" with the new information. Posting that you read somewhere or giving me a link to another forum is not proof but the reason I wrote this. Too much information is made up or misinterpreted causing more scare and panic than necessary. There are always going to be security improvements made, AP25 is just one of them. I only know how the system works on a basic level. I do not have any information on how AP25 request/reponse data is generated. It could be a general system (all games store the same values, the check just serves and a secondary check to the original check) as the ones before it or it could be a game-by-game basis (individual games have their own AP25 values). Do NOT post responses based only on what you have heard. If you have direct or personal knowledge on how these security systems work, feel free.
if it failes reading ap2.5 you profile get corrupt. you can get achievements and sign/sync with live. but if you try to use this profile on another console it wont work. you have to recovery your profile to use the savegames. thats very negative aspect i think.
Post by: sidneysides on November 16, 2010, 08:27:00 AM
QUOTE(ezio911 @ Nov 16 2010, 02:12 PM)
if it failes reading ap2.5 you profile get corrupt. you can get achievements and sign/sync with live. but if you try to use this profile on another console it wont work. you have to recovery your profile to use the savegames. thats very negative aspect i think.
So its not possible to even recover it on another console - it will still be corrupt on any other console? Basically, your profile forever tied to that banned/flagged box?
Post by: gamesquest1 on November 16, 2010, 08:40:00 AM
Post by: lrod2344 on November 16, 2010, 09:15:00 AM
This post has been edited by lrod2344: Nov 16 2010, 05:18 PM
Post by: viper3344 on November 16, 2010, 09:25:00 AM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 16 2010, 05:15 PM)
From what Ive read (and what that post claims) the disc HAS to have the new "security layer" pressed into it in order for AP25 to request a read from it..... I reasonably expect ANY new game to have this layer and most likely any games as far back as FIFA 09 (even though there is some confusion).... as stated previously we WILL ABSOLUTELY have to re-burn any games that are AP25 aware since we KNOW AP25 will be used from now on.... As far as ABGX is concerned.... like I said if you enable the maximum verbosity level (as far as Ive seen) it will report "AntiPiracy25 Media" on NEW game isos.... I dont have FIFA 09 to check so maybe someone who DOES have it can check...... I would Imagine a list of games and/or updates for games that enable AP25 as MS releases them.... but we should all start putting away some extra cash to buy those new Dual Layer discs we will need.... personally Im going to need at lease a 5 or 6 50 packs.... this is getting expensive.... when LT was released it was reported that all media needed SSV2 and so ALL my games went in the trash and I had run them all through ABGX get the SSV2's on them and then reburn them TWICE for me and my kids.... now here I go again.... Im paranoid tho.... Im not taking any chances with ol Billy Gates... so I just unplug all my consoles and put them in a airtight water tight locked lead box and bury them in a hole 6 feet in the ground in my back yard.... BAN THAT MICROSOFT!!!!!
What if you dont care about online and only have the interest in booting the ap25 games. Then will all the older games need a reburn if you have LT25?
Post by: lrod2344 on November 16, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
QUOTE(viper3344 @ Nov 16 2010, 05:25 PM)
What if you dont care about online and only have the interest in booting the ap25 games. Then will all the older games need a reburn if you have LT25?
Well.... if your interest is only in playing the game offline... it doesnt matter as AP25 just doesnt flag your console for a ban but actually PREVENTS the backup game from booting PERIOD.... so in a case like Need For Speed HP as a friend of mine has played last night.... it required the new dash update in order to play the game period.... his console is banned but still needed the update which was on the disc.... once updated he was able to play fine.... however his is an original 20GB Pro Release Model I know this because I went with him to buy it years ago and we waited online for it.... so He has a Samsung Drive in it which is the AP25 exception..... I only say this because:
if you dont have a Samsung Drive or as some have reported an Early Hitachi....
And Update to the new dash which is required for (all??) AP25 games....
and DONT have LT+ which isnt released....
and DONT have SSV3 on your backup disc which noone has yet
and didint buy the game.....
then you cannot play any AP25 Games...IE: Fable III, NFS HP, SIMS 3???, Assasins...
I could be wrong tho.... but I cant check all this because A: Im not willing to risk my consoles so I wait for LT+ and B: my consoles are still buried underground safely hidden away from MS prying eyes....
Post by: ezio911 on November 16, 2010, 10:59:00 AM
QUOTE(sidneysides @ Nov 16 2010, 04:27 PM)
So its not possible to even recover it on another console - it will still be corrupt on any other console? Basically, your profile forever tied to that banned/flagged box?
If you recover on a clean(unflagged) console then your profile is clean. if you recover on a dirty(flagged) console then its corrupt.
i have read that you can uncorrupt with a tool named CON FLAGGER but if ms detecting this maybe you get profile ban..
Post by: astr4twin on November 16, 2010, 11:25:00 AM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 16 2010, 06:15 PM)
We should all start putting away some extra cash to buy those new Dual Layer discs we will need.... personally Im going to need at lease a 5 or 6 50 packs.... this is getting expensive.... when LT was released it was reported that all media needed SSV2 and so ALL my games went in the trash and I had run them all through ABGX get the SSV2's on them and then reburn them TWICE for me and my kids.... now here I go again.... Im paranoid tho.... Im not taking any chances with ol Billy Gates... so I just unplug all my consoles and put them in a airtight water tight locked lead box and bury them in a hole 6 feet in the ground in my back yard.... BAN THAT MICROSOFT!!!!!
I take it your refering to having to reburn all your games to be safe on live?
I'm not bothered about playing on live so all my games ive burnt to date should play fine forever more unless a TU comes out for a game which had AP2.5 hidden in it? correct?
Another question i had was, again not bothered about live so am i ok burning NFS,AC:BH ect off now ready for when LT+ is released or are these going to require reburning with SSV3 or patched with SSV3 for burning?
Also a theory i have as to how M$ might force us to reburn all our games if they infact have had AP2.5 in them since Fifa 09 would be to bring out a new dash update containing TU for all games released activating AP2.5 checks. They could force people to update to it by future games not booting unless your on the latest dash.
Well thats what id do if i was a C*** (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Post by: fluffhead on November 16, 2010, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: sidneysides on November 16, 2010, 12:37:00 PM
QUOTE(ezio911 @ Nov 16 2010, 05:59 PM)
If you recover on a clean(unflagged) console then your profile is clean. if you recover on a dirty(flagged) console then its corrupt.
i have read that you can uncorrupt with a tool named CON FLAGGER but if ms detecting this maybe you get profile ban..
I have a clean elite too, so if I ended up with a corrupt profile, I could recover on the clean box and continue as normal??
Post by: Reaper527 on November 16, 2010, 12:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Smok3y666 @ Nov 16 2010, 09:12 AM)
So if there is not a 100% way of knowing which games have AP 2.5 for all we know 1 or 2 could have it, the majority or all games could have it just waiting to be activated via a patch?
the only 100% sure way to know is to try to boot it on system with the newest dash and a drive that supports it. you can run it through abgx, but as quoted earlier, this isn't a surefire method. it can tell you that a game is ap2.5, but it can't tell you that a game isn't ap2.5
as mentioned before, if the game fails to boot, odds are its ap 2.5.
also, add need for speed: hot pursuit to the list of ap2.5 titles. that brings the new known total up to 3.
This post has been edited by Reaper527: Nov 16 2010, 08:55 PM
Post by: rabarone on November 16, 2010, 01:51:00 PM
Where ?
Post by: carlitoB on November 16, 2010, 01:55:00 PM
for future updates LT+1.1 looks a bit silly imo.
reply to above post:- its in yellow writing so stands out. i have marked with ###############HERE as its not in yellow on my copy/paste.
Checking Game
ISO: "F:\_XBOX360 GAMES\Assassins.Creed.Brotherhood.XBOX360-******.iso"
Size: 7838695424 bytes (SplitVid 3rd or 4th wave)
Game partition offset: 0xFD90000
Root sector: 1783935 (0xE99CF800), 2048 bytes
default.xex sector: 3148976 (0x1903E8000), 10334208 bytes
Files in ISO: 84, Folders in ISO: 18
Total bytes used: 6940833319 (95.10%)
Game appears to have random padding
Checking default.xex
Module Flags: Title Module
Image Flags: XGD2 Media Only
64 KB Pages
System Flags: Accesses Personally Identifiable Information (PII)
AntiPiracy25 Media #############################################HERE
Title ID: 5553085D (US-2141)
Ver / Base Ver: v0.0.0.2 / v0.0.0.2
Disc Number: 1 of 1
Original PE Filename: scimitar_final_ltcg.exe
Original PE Timestamp: 2010/10/11 20:54:02
Allowed Media Types: DVD-XGD2 (Xbox 360 original disc)
Game Ratings: ESRB: M (Mature 17+)
PEGI: 18+
PEGI-FI: 18+
PEGI-PT: 18+
USK: 16+
OFLC-AU: MA15+
OFLC-NZ: MA15+
FPB: 18+
Compression Info: Compressed and Encrypted
Title Type: Full Game Title
Dashboard Languages: English (default)
German
French
Spanish
Italian
Portuguese
Game Name: AC Brotherhood
No Avatar Awards
Achievements: 50 Achievements totaling 1000 Gamerscore
XEX CRC = 33DF681B
XEX Media ID: 298F341E24EBE1EC9524C655-6D88AE4F
Region Code: 0xFFFFFFFF
Region Free!
This post has been edited by carlitoB: Nov 16 2010, 10:06 PM
Post by: rabarone on November 16, 2010, 02:10:00 PM
QUOTE(carlitoB @ Nov 16 2010, 09:55 PM)
i think it should be called LT2.5 or LT25 not LT+
for future updates LT+1.1 looks a bit silly imo.
reply to above post:- its in yellow writing so stands out. i have marked with ###############HERE as its not in yellow on my copy/paste.
Checking Game
ISO: "F:\_XBOX360 GAMES\Assassins.Creed.Brotherhood.XBOX360-******.iso"
Size: 7838695424 bytes (SplitVid 3rd or 4th wave)
Game partition offset: 0xFD90000
Root sector: 1783935 (0xE99CF800), 2048 bytes
default.xex sector: 3148976 (0x1903E8000), 10334208 bytes
Files in ISO: 84, Folders in ISO: 18
Total bytes used: 6940833319 (95.10%)
Game appears to have random padding
Checking default.xex
Module Flags: Title Module
Image Flags: XGD2 Media Only
64 KB Pages
System Flags: Accesses Personally Identifiable Information (PII)
AntiPiracy25 Media #############################################HERE
Title ID: 5553085D (US-2141)
Ver / Base Ver: v0.0.0.2 / v0.0.0.2
Disc Number: 1 of 1
Original PE Filename: scimitar_final_ltcg.exe
Original PE Timestamp: 2010/10/11 20:54:02
Allowed Media Types: DVD-XGD2 (Xbox 360 original disc)
Game Ratings: ESRB: M (Mature 17+)
PEGI: 18+
PEGI-FI: 18+
PEGI-PT: 18+
USK: 16+
OFLC-AU: MA15+
OFLC-NZ: MA15+
FPB: 18+
Compression Info: Compressed and Encrypted
Title Type: Full Game Title
Dashboard Languages: English (default)
German
French
Spanish
Italian
Portuguese
Game Name: AC Brotherhood
No Avatar Awards
Achievements: 50 Achievements totaling 1000 Gamerscore
XEX CRC = 33DF681B
XEX Media ID: 298F341E24EBE1EC9524C655-6D88AE4F
Region Code: 0xFFFFFFFF
Region Free!
Post by: Reaper527 on November 16, 2010, 02:40:00 PM
QUOTE(carlitoB @ Nov 16 2010, 03:55 PM)
i think it should be called LT2.5 or LT25 not LT+
for future updates LT+1.1 looks a bit silly imo.
then you should make your own firmware, and you can call it whatever you want.
QUOTE(carlitoB @ Nov 16 2010, 03:55 PM)
reply to above post:- its in yellow writing so stands out. i have marked with ###############HERE as its not in yellow on my copy/paste.
and like i said, it can tell you that a game has ap2.5, but it can't tell you that it doesn't.
if it says that a game has ap2.5, than it is obvious what that means. guess what though, it says fable 3 does NOT have ap2.5, and we all know that it does.
you can NOT look at one of those and be 100% sure a game isn't ap2.5. and to quote c4e
QUOTE
[c4eva] with new dash xex flag is irrelevant!
guess what abgx looks at (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
This post has been edited by Reaper527: Nov 16 2010, 10:42 PM
Post by: Ruined on November 16, 2010, 03:24:00 PM
I have a sammy drive and I do not play on live at all. My modded box isn't even connected to the internet. I should be able to play AP 2.5 backups with no trouble, correct?
Post by: carlitoB on November 16, 2010, 04:39:00 PM
QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Nov 16 2010, 09:40 PM)
then you should make your own firmware, and you can call it whatever you want.
it was a suggestion. head mod? wow.
also with the other one he asked where it said it on abgx360, NOT is it safe/correct. you are quite right though, NOT reliable.
This post has been edited by carlitoB: Nov 17 2010, 12:42 AM
Post by: steveo1978 on November 16, 2010, 04:52:00 PM
Post by: lrod2344 on November 16, 2010, 04:57:00 PM
QUOTE(astr4twin @ Nov 16 2010, 07:25 PM)
I take it your refering to having to reburn all your games to be safe on live?
I'm not bothered about playing on live so all my games ive burnt to date should play fine forever more unless a TU comes out for a game which had AP2.5 hidden in it? correct?
Another question i had was, again not bothered about live so am i ok burning NFS,AC:BH ect off now ready for when LT+ is released or are these going to require reburning with SSV3 or patched with SSV3 for burning?
Also a theory i have as to how M$ might force us to reburn all our games if they infact have had AP2.5 in them since Fifa 09 would be to bring out a new dash update containing TU for all games released activating AP2.5 checks. They could force people to update to it by future games not booting unless your on the latest dash.
Well thats what id do if i was a C*** (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Not entirely correct... case in point.... my friends console and NFS:
He was FORCED to update the dash from the disc in order to USE the game... once he updated only THEN was he able to USE as NFS IS an AP25 Title.... now again being as how his was an ORIGINAL Samsung Drive AP25 was ignored because the drive isnt AP25 capable... had his drive been a BenQ or Lite-on which IS AP25 capable he wouldve A: NOT been able to USE the backup because the backup was NOT SSV3 Nor is his FW LT+ so he wouldve FAILED AP25 checks and B: his console (although already banned) wouldve been flagged for a possible future banning. Previous titles MAY have the AP25 Security layer pressed and laying dormat as it was suggested SO LONG AGO and all those titles needed was a wake up call from our friend the Fall 2010 Dash Update AKA Kinect Dash so those titles (who knows how many) will also need to be re-burned using SSV3.....So to Sum it up if you want to USE ANY AP25 games online or offliine you will need to re-burn your discs using SSV3 when it becomes available AAAAANNNNND have LT+ firmware. these are just my conclusions.... it can always change in the future. Sorry Steveo....saw your post last minute and changed my wording...
This post has been edited by lrod2344: Nov 17 2010, 01:02 AM
Post by: rabarone on November 16, 2010, 05:17:00 PM
Checking for updates to abgx360.dat...
* About to connect() to abgx360.net port 80 (#0)
* Trying 69.73.174.253... * Timeout
* couldn't connect to host
* Closing connection #0
ERROR: couldn't connect to host
There seems to be a problem with the db so online functions have been dis
Try again later...
C:\Users\Ricardo\Downloads\Fable.III.XBOX360-MARVEL\mvl-fifi\mvl-fifi.dvd
id
Checking Game
ISO: "C:\Users\Ricardo\Downloads\Fable.III.XBOX360-MARVEL\mvl-fifi\m
.iso"
Size: 7838695424 bytes (SplitVid 3rd or 4th wave)
Game partition offset: 0xFD90000
Root sector: 75676 (0x1915E000), 2048 bytes
default.xex sector: 1783936 (0xE99D0000), 20594688 bytes
Files in ISO: 290, Folders in ISO: 112
Total bytes used: 5975622079 (81.87%)
Game appears to have random padding
Checking default.xex
Module Flags: Title Module
Image Flags: XGD2 Media Only
64 KB Pages
System Flags: Uses Game Voice Channel
Pal50 Incompatible
Title ID: 4D5308D6 (MS-2262)
Ver / Base Ver: v0.0.0.3 / v0.0.0.3
Disc Number: 1 of 1
Original PE Filename: Fable2_xfr.exe
Original PE Timestamp: 2010/09/10 18:19:25
Allowed Media Types: DVD-XGD2 (Xbox 360 original disc)
Game Ratings: ESRB: M (Mature 17+)
PEGI: 16+
PEGI-FI: 15+
QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Nov 16 2010, 10:40 PM)
then you should make your own firmware, and you can call it whatever you want.
and like i said, it can tell you that a game has ap2.5, but it can't tell you that it doesn't.
if it says that a game has ap2.5, than it is obvious what that means. guess what though, it says fable 3 does NOT have ap2.5, and we all know that it does.
you can NOT look at one of those and be 100% sure a game isn't ap2.5. and to quote c4e
guess what abgx looks at (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Post by: ROBJETS on November 16, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
Samsung 360 worked with AP 2.5 games with no problem
I have a Liteon and Benq console also.
I pulled the Samsung dvd drive out and spoofed it as a Benq and then a Liteon and proceded to place it in the Benq and Lteon consoles before updating the dashboard.
Neither the Benq or the Liteon consoles worked with Ap 2.5 games with the spoofed Samsung drive.
Im wondering where the info that spoofed Samsung drives are working because if this was actually the case my Samsung drive that works in the Samsung console would have at least worked in one of the other consoles but the fact that it worked in neither tells me that the spoofing info is wrong.
This post has been edited by ROBJETS: Nov 17 2010, 01:23 AM
Post by: steveo1978 on November 16, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
QUOTE(rabarone @ Nov 16 2010, 07:17 PM)
ISO: "C:\Users\Ricardo\Downloads\Fable.III.XBOX360-MARVEL\mvl-fifi\m
.iso"
Do you not read or did you think I was playing. You have the freaking pirate release group listed. BYE
This post has been edited by steveo1978: Nov 17 2010, 01:38 AM
Post by: gaby04 on November 16, 2010, 06:10:00 PM
I have a banned xbox with nxe dashboard. According to what i read you cannot play the ap 2.5 games that require the kinect update to be played. Is there anyway to patch backup copies of NFS:Pursuit (like remove the kinect update) to get it working on pre nxe
Post by: Nombrrr1 on November 16, 2010, 06:36:00 PM
QUOTE(gaby04 @ Nov 16 2010, 05:10 PM)
I have a question
I have a banned xbox with nxe dashboard. According to what i read you cannot play the ap 2.5 games that require the kinect update to be played. Is there anyway to patch backup copies of NFS:Pursuit (like remove the kinect update) to get it working on pre nxe
look up Jtags
Post by: aqswde123 on November 16, 2010, 11:46:00 PM
Im not trying to bring up the same old questions asked a million times just want your opinion.
AP2.5 games cannot be played on the new dash for obvious reasons and cannot be played on the old dash because they force an update to the new dash(except fable 3). I like the most of you will not play ap2.5 games until LT+ is out.
But for now is it better to say on the old dash or update to the kinect dash if I am not inserting an ap2.5 game into my drive. What would you guys do? Why would I want to update to new dash if Im not playing AP2.5 games? I really want the title update for F1 2010 it fixes a lot of bugs.
thanks
Post by: toastynz on November 17, 2010, 12:58:00 AM
Post by: BenieUK on November 17, 2010, 01:28:00 AM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 16 2010, 12:37 PM)
So This Is What Ive Found.... A quick goole did the trick.... looks like I was right AND wrong....
From the se7ensins forums:
Difference between a RETAIL game and a BACKUP (burned copy):
Retail discs include a security layer that a DVD burner cannot reproduce. When making a copy of the retail disc that security info can be read and stored but cannot be rewritten on the backup the same way it existed on the original retail disc. That is why you must have a modified firmware (flashed xbox) that will be able to read/respond to that security information even if it is not stored in the same way as an original retail disc. This is what SSv1 and SSv2 refer to, the way the backup stores the security info to be read by the flashed xbox drive.
AP25 and YOU:
First off, FIFA 09 is not an AP25 title. Currently the only AP25 titles are Fable 3 and Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.
What is AP25? Anti-Piracy 2.5 Simply put, its an updated security layer on both the disc and in the game files.
There is a lot of confusion on how AP25 actually works, many people just make something up or attempt to make it sound far more technical (scarier) than it really is.
Like the security system outlined above AP25 should work in the same way but with an added check. When you attempt to boot the game AP25 kicks in and asks the DVD drive to check some things on another security layer. If you have a backup of an AP25 title in the drive this check will fail because those security layers do not exist on the backup. Because AP25 is new, the current LT firmware does not have the ability to fake a response or look somewhere else for this security info if you are trying to play a backup copy. If you have the original retail disc in the drive the AP25 check will pass because the drive is able to location the security layer and return the proper response. When LT+ is released it should support this new security feature and be able to answer future AP25 checks without the retail disc. This is being referred to as SSv3 (our new fake security layer for backups).
**Ok, so without LT+ if I want to play an AP25 game like Fable 3 I need the retail disc?:
Yes.
What about the Nov. 1 Dash update? (Kinect Dash):
Dash update is safe. The only reason an old dashboard will not fail an AP25 check and the new dashboard will is old dashboards do not support the new security feature. Basically before the dashboard update on Nov.1 the 360 didn't look for AP25 because it didn't know it was supposed to. The new dashboard now has that support built in. Other than that, its just a dashboard update.
Why do people say Samsung and Hitachi drives are safe? Is my LiteOn/BenQ not safe?:
Some drives may be physically unable to read this new security layer (AP25 layer) and thus are considered "safe" from the new AP25 checks. LiteOn and BenQ drives are able to read this information and when asked by an AP25 title they will.
So, can I replace my 360's drive with a Samsung to be safe?
No. A drive is locked to the 360 it shipped with and cannot be swapped out. There is a method known as "spoofing"(copying some of the drive info to make the xbox think its the original) that will allow another drive to work. This is NOT a safe way to avoid AP25 checks. Even though the drive works, when an AP25 title asks for the check to be performed, your xbox will still "think" it has the original drive, so if it was a LiteOn or BenQ before then it will attempt to check even if it can't. If the check doesn't pass then your xbox will fail.
What happens if I fail an AP25 check?:
If you happen to fail and AP25 check for any reason your xbox will record this failure and your console will report back to MS that this check has failed. Currently it is believed Microsoft is collecting data for another ban wave using this information. Being flagged doesn't guarantee a ban, but MS is aware that your xbox did not pass.
I've also heard AP25 could be added to older games with a title update?! Is this true?:
Yes and No.
AP25 checks could only be added if the original disc had an AP25 security layer to begin with.
**If I fail an AP25 check will it prevent me from playing other backups?
No. When an AP25 title fails the test it does in fact return an unreadable/dirty disc error. Essentially, it is looking for something that cannot be found on the disc so the error comes back as unreadable/dirty disc. This is ONLY for the failed AP25 title and will ONLY happen on the backup. If you failed an AP25 check with say a Fable III backup, you can play with the retail disc just fine because when it looks for the AP25 information it will find it. Failing the AP25 check will not prevent other non-AP25 titles from playing nor will it prevent you from playing legit retail copies of the AP25 title even after failure. There is no corruption or dirty MS tricks involved with this, the backup disc you are attempting to play (AP25 title) really is unreadable since the AP25 data isn't there.
**Will the upcoming LT+ software fix my AP25 failure flag?
No. When LT+ is available and flashed on the console, even after a failed AP25 check, your backup AP25 title should then become readable as the drive can now look elsewhere for that stored AP25 response information. I do not expect the flag to be removed after flashing with LT+ due to the fact you can currently pass the AP25 check using a retail disc but the flag will remain if you failed the check prior. Think of the Xval(secdata) like the Windows Event Log. When an error occurs it records the error in the log for the Admin (in this case Microsoft / XBLive) to look at. What MS chooses to do with that information is still up in the air.
**As Jester pointed out in this thread, you can also write protect the NAND to prevent the xbox from being able to log security events such as failing the AP25 check. It will not bypass the check but if you were to fail the check it would not record the failure for future reporting to MS next time you are online. A guide for this will be added soon however it is recommended, unless you feel safe soldering things to the xbox motherboard, that you stick to double-checking your iso's before tossing the disc into the drive. If you xbox is already banned this may be of use to you as well.
If there are other general questions I missed please post them and I will attempt to answer them.
If any of the above info is incorrect and you have proof to support that I will be happy to edit this "FAQ" with the new information. Posting that you read somewhere or giving me a link to another forum is not proof but the reason I wrote this. Too much information is made up or misinterpreted causing more scare and panic than necessary. There are always going to be security improvements made, AP25 is just one of them. I only know how the system works on a basic level. I do not have any information on how AP25 request/reponse data is generated. It could be a general system (all games store the same values, the check just serves and a secondary check to the original check) as the ones before it or it could be a game-by-game basis (individual games have their own AP25 values). Do NOT post responses based only on what you have heard. If you have direct or personal knowledge on how these security systems work, feel free.
Post by: danthaman673 on November 17, 2010, 02:15:00 AM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 16 2010, 08:43 AM)
I have a question.... and understand I am by NO MEANS a newbie.... but this isa bit confusing even for me....
regarding the discs themselves....
If a disc (Black Ops) that was STORE BOUGHT is SSV2.... and somewhere down the line there is a title update from MS enabling AP25..... this update would be stored on the hard drive as there is NO WAY (as far as I know) for an UPDATE from MS to MODIFY a READ ONLY disc to now have SSV3 on the disc itself..... so if I then take that same disc and place it in a console that did not have this AP25 Update that disc would then revert back to its original SSV2 state.....
Sooooooooo........ wouldnt the same hold true for a Backup of the same game?
Isnt a disc that is SSV2 to begin with ALWAYS going to be SSV2?
Isnt AP25 a Challenge/Response system against the Drive?
Maybe Im missing something here.
what is the connection between SSV2, SSV3 and AP25?
And Finally Is the New ABGX a reliable AP25 check...Ive re-checked a few games and The SIMS 3 doesnt show as AP25 (as reported) Neither Does Black Ops but Fable III and NFS Hot Pursuit DO show as "AntiPiracy25 Media" ....Should we Assume that any iso that "Accesses Personally Identifiable Information PII" are AP25 aware/capable.... or are ALL titles AP25 aware/capable?
This was answered already AGAIN! (No-offence to Irod, I just picked his question because it was better phrased than the other noob-based ones) But pre-empting questions like this again:
(SS= Security Sector) SSv2 is a method for storing the SS info on the disc so if you have a retail with SSv2 then take it back to the shop and ask for the original. The new security sector is part of AP 2.5 and it doesn't have an official external name (their methods of stealth to take ppl by surprise - I think Xorloser coined it 'DVD-XGD 2.5 or something') AFAIK. SSv3 doesn't exist yet.
AGBX CANNOT DETECT AP 2.5 PROTECTED DISCS! (If it show up then it just means that the xex will only run from the new media type (that has no 'xternal' name) and therfore will need xex patching before running on JTAG etc.. Fable 3's check is based on what dash it's running (IE; Media check only for pre 12611 and full AP 2.5 post 126111) Newer games will vary from this, Don't xpect M$ to make it easy ..
QUOTE(Smok3y666 @ Nov 16 2010, 11:26 PM)
If I run a game through abgx 1.0.3 (the new one) that detects AP 2.5 and it doesn't report AP 2.5 as being present does that mean that even with any future update the game will still remain okay? So, for example: Black Ops doesn't have AP 2.5, I update my dash and play online. Then M$ release an update but because it didn't have AP 2.5 originally it will still be okay to play online?
See above, As I have said MANY TIMES BEFORE: BlackOps is AP 2.5 capable!!<Confirmed> So if M$ put (or have already - is anyone checking?????) into a TU the AP 2.5 check they could either silently flag you and/or bann/corrupted-bann/Prevent boot Any or all of the above
New FW will be needed to read the new security feature and more than likely it wont work on sammy/hitachis (for use as 0800 or otherwise) as it needs a special vendor command AFAIK
QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 16 2010, 11:38 PM)
I agree that the post a few above mine explains the situation pretty darn clearly and completely - well done.
Still, I don't understand how c4eva can be close to completing LT+, as we only know of about 3 discs that use AP2.5. So somehow he has determined from a small sample of discs (and some XBOX Live traffic I guess) exactly how AP2.5 does and will work in the near future (one assumes).
I assume that LT+ essentially has a map which links locations on a pressed disc's new security layer to locations on an SSv3 backup (where the SSv3 data locations are determined by the ripping firmware). Is this correct?
It was suggested a while back that AP2.5 might be impossible to combat due to an infinite number of possible challenges. Could someone please explain/clarify this suggestion? I understand that a challenge could ask for any piece of data from the new security layer, but I don't understand how it would ever be impossible to combat, assuming that this layer's data is burned to a backup disc (albeit on one of the regular two data layers on a DL DVDR) and a map exists (embedded within LT+) between pressed disc data locations and backup disc data locations. Anyway, I assume that this isn't an actual problem as c4eva claims that LT+ beats AP2.5 period, or does he?
Any help would be appeciated,
H
Earlier Hakd FW uses stored responses, LT+ (by my best guess) will probably apply the same formula that would get applied in the normal (un-hakd) FW loop so it won't matter how many different challenges the dash puts out.
QUOTE(sidneysides @ Nov 17 2010, 12:57 AM)
So its not possible to even recover it on another console - it will still be corrupt on any other console? Basically, your profile forever tied to that banned/flagged box?
No see 'uncrippling' (checkout 'Thwack's Tut - search those keywords)
If you are using con unflagger OR le fluffie then make sure you are using a virgin (unbanned) KeyVault (If you can) It will offer the best protection
ALSO: I am still recommending that ppl update with orignal FW in place (If possible) AND that ppl use their ORIGINALS untill LT+ comes out (It probably won't be as big a task as I originally predicted before C4eva made the more recent discoveries)
Brgds/Dan
PS: That se7en's post is a good all-in-one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) description of the topic (even if half the info was probably gleaned from the previous thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
This post has been edited by danthaman673: Nov 17 2010, 10:33 AM
Post by: greedy_boy_3 on November 17, 2010, 07:19:00 AM
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on November 17, 2010, 08:37:00 AM
QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 17 2010, 04:19 PM)
Say you have an AP2.5 ORIGINAL disc (e.g. Fable III ORIGINAL) and it is dirty/scratched in such a way that the AP2.5 check fails (i.e. the necessary data can't be read), what would happen?
Someone shoot me down if I'm wrong (my programming knowledge is rusty of late), but any piece of code like this, and most code really, will have check bits or a check procedure built in to make sure that the returned value is correct/possible. If the laser can't read the disc or gets bad data back, it will tell the program, "Hey, I'm not getting everything I want here, must be a bad disc (i.e. damaged)". Thus the xbox will come up with the "dirty disc" notification.
It won't suddenly flag you as "naughty" if the disc is scratched. MS would be stupid to not check its own checks.
This post has been edited by DeMoN_DARREN: Nov 17 2010, 04:39 PM
Post by: greedy_boy_3 on November 17, 2010, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(DeMoN_DARREN @ Nov 17 2010, 05:37 PM)
Someone shoot me down if I'm wrong (my programming knowledge is rusty of late), but any piece of code like this, and most code really, will have check bits or a check procedure built in to make sure that the returned value is correct/possible. If the laser can't read the disc or gets bad data back, it will tell the program, "Hey, I'm not getting everything I want here, must be a bad disc (i.e. damaged)". Thus the xbox will come up with the "dirty disc" notification.
It won't suddenly flag you as "naughty" if the disc is scratched. MS would be stupid to not check its own checks.
Yea you're probably right - although I still don't quite understand how the system could tell the difference between a bad read (due to scratch(es)) and simply receiving bad/incorrect data due to a messed up firmware/backup. The thing is that from the user's point of view they will get a dirty-disc error regardless. This in my opinion is poor on Microsoft's part. If an AP2.5 check fails not because of a dirty disc, it still says 'dirty disc'. Is that good programming?
This post has been edited by greedy_boy_3: Nov 17 2010, 06:29 PM
Post by: astr4twin on November 17, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
QUOTE(lrod2344 @ Nov 17 2010, 01:57 AM)
Not entirely correct... case in point.... my friends console and NFS:
He was FORCED to update the dash from the disc in order to USE the game... once he updated only THEN was he able to USE as NFS IS an AP25 Title.... now again being as how his was an ORIGINAL Samsung Drive AP25 was ignored because the drive isnt AP25 capable... had his drive been a BenQ or Lite-on which IS AP25 capable he wouldve A: NOT been able to USE the backup because the backup was NOT SSV3 Nor is his FW LT+ so he wouldve FAILED AP25 checks and B: his console (although already banned) wouldve been flagged for a possible future banning. Previous titles MAY have the AP25 Security layer pressed and laying dormat as it was suggested SO LONG AGO and all those titles needed was a wake up call from our friend the Fall 2010 Dash Update AKA Kinect Dash so those titles (who knows how many) will also need to be re-burned using SSV3.....So to Sum it up if you want to USE ANY AP25 games online or offliine you will need to re-burn your discs using SSV3 when it becomes available AAAAANNNNND have LT+ firmware. these are just my conclusions.... it can always change in the future. Sorry Steveo....saw your post last minute and changed my wording...
Thank's for taking time out to clear that up for me but im still a little confised. I understand your saying it may or may not happen that they may have AP2.5 laying dormant within them and that a TU could wake them up but is it fact they will then fail to boot when using LT+ and not using SSV3 or just your views. Ill explain a little better.....
My original thoughts before you explained it were that the new LT+ will report that the game was original and pass the AP2.5 checks and it did not matter if it was SSV1,V2 or V3 so therefore i would be ok burning NFS on SSV1 or SSV2. Basically i thought the LT+ FW on the drive was doing all the work to pass checks and there was nothing really needed to pass on the backup disk side of things. I only thought SSV was to do with being safe on live if M$ ever checked.
So just to clarify things.....
To pass AP2.5 and a game to boot in future you will need to be using LT+ and a backup disc will have to contain SSV3?
LT+ and an AP2.5 game burned with SSV2 will not boot?
I have a large number of games and i think if i had to burn them all off again, not only would it be too time consuming, it would be really expensive. Even after this a year down the line M$ could do something else and then games would require SSV4 or similar so id have to start burning them all again.
I think if you factored all the time & money into it, it would work out cheaper to buy a new 360 and not to accept the update that awoke AP2.5 in older games. I could then play all my old games on one 360 and burn future games with SSV3 for the new 360.
As you say, we do not know if this will ever happen but i will not bother to burn my backups of AC:BH and NFS off yet untill i can patch the SSV3 files into them.
This post has been edited by astr4twin: Nov 17 2010, 08:25 PM
Post by: ulv on November 17, 2010, 03:53:00 PM
Quick question : I got a Samsung with iExtreme 1.51 (banned) - Fable 3 worked fine, tried AC : Brotherhood which made me update - and now I'm getting the unreadable disc error, on both Fable 3 and AC : Brotherhood. What's up with that? I thought Samsungs were meant to skip the AP25? Is this just me being unlucky or do I have to upgrade to 1.6X? Using activation-disc.
Cheers
edit : Oh wow, first post even though I've been a "member" since 03. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
This post has been edited by ulv: Nov 17 2010, 11:54 PM
Post by: trees415 on November 18, 2010, 02:44:00 AM
QUOTE(ulv @ Nov 17 2010, 03:53 PM)
Hey dudes.
Quick question : I got a Samsung with iExtreme 1.51 (banned) - Fable 3 worked fine, tried AC : Brotherhood which made me update - and now I'm getting the unreadable disc error, on both Fable 3 and AC : Brotherhood. What's up with that? I thought Samsungs were meant to skip the AP25? Is this just me being unlucky or do I have to upgrade to 1.6X? Using activation-disc.
Cheers
edit : Oh wow, first post even though I've been a "member" since 03. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
You should try updating to LT, I have a feeling its a wave conflict. AC Brotherhood is wave 9, so that is most likely the reason, whereas Fable III was wave 6. So maybe it freaked out your drive, but I would do the LT upgrade. I myself have a samsung running with appropriate firmware, and Fable 3 plays fine, but I haven't tried AC brotherhood yet. I might pop it in though since I just finished Fable anyways.
Post by: Resonate on November 18, 2010, 04:21:00 AM
Post by: danthaman673 on November 18, 2010, 06:02:00 AM
QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 18 2010, 02:55 AM)
Yea you're probably right - although I still don't quite understand how the system could tell the difference between a bad read (due to scratch(es)) and simply receiving bad/incorrect data due to a messed up firmware/backup. The thing is that from the user's point of view they will get a dirty-disc error regardless. This in my opinion is poor on Microsoft's part. If an AP2.5 check fails not because of a dirty disc, it still says 'dirty disc'. Is that good programming?
That's a good point, I think some (probably earlier Hakd-FWs) Wont have the command (FW code doesnt include it perhaps because the banks needed were used for builtin 0800 or something..) But that was my guess when I heard ppl complaining they were getting 'Dirty Disc' as LT would surely have preserved all commands to be as undetectable as possible. Given that the data output from a backup would probably be predictable and may be used to flag boxes.
BTW:A couple of minutes ago A new 6mb TU (patch) just came out for BLACKOPS! Just in time! ;-) Here we go again ... (I might have a look @ the TU with le-fluffie if I could tear myself away from playing the game itself- If anyone is bored enough to have a go pls let us know ur results)
Post by: Buzzcut on November 18, 2010, 06:10:00 AM
<*********> Morning c4eva, there's a title update for Black Ops, is this the kind of thing you'll log for new checks or do we assume that because a BO backup still works after the TU, that ap2.5 isn't active?
<+c4eva> already checked bo update,looks good,clean xval
I'm just waiting for the 100s of people to ask the same question without reading anything...again.
This post has been edited by Buzzcut: Nov 18 2010, 02:12 PM
Post by: greedy_boy_3 on November 18, 2010, 06:52:00 AM
QUOTE(Buzzcut @ Nov 18 2010, 03:10 PM)
c4e has already checked this update...poor guy, says hello in IRC and instantly gets a million people asking questions.
<*********> Morning c4eva, there's a title update for Black Ops, is this the kind of thing you'll log for new checks or do we assume that because a BO backup still works after the TU, that ap2.5 isn't active?
<+c4eva> already checked bo update,looks good,clean xval
I'm just waiting for the 100s of people to ask the same question without reading anything...again.
To be fair I think c4eva enjoys what he does - helping people less knowledgeable than himself. I also assume that donations are sufficiently high that he doesn't need a normal job (anyone know what country he resides in?). He is doing what he loves doing - seems like a nice life to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think people should stop making him out to be almost unfortunate. He is fortunate if anything, as he has been born with the intelligence to do what he does (i.e. comprehension of/fluidity in low-level programming). I'm sure that as soon as he has had enough of this 'hard life', he will quit, and not a moment later.
Of course, having said all of that, I remain profusely grateful for his contribution. I just never think, 'aww, poor c4eva sat in a room coding'. Instead, I spend that time thinking, 'aww, poor 3rd World children who are starving to death at this very moment'. Do you get it? Good.
Note: Buzzcut, you should be more thankful to c4eva than most, as you are making £25 a pop by simply flashing his work to other people's drives. Lol.
This post has been edited by greedy_boy_3: Nov 18 2010, 02:58 PM
Post by: Buzzcut on November 18, 2010, 07:41:00 AM
QUOTE(greedy_boy_3 @ Nov 18 2010, 01:52 PM)
you are making £25 a pop by simply flashing his work to other people's drives. Lol.
And he's in my prayers every night before I go to bed.
This post has been edited by Buzzcut: Nov 18 2010, 03:54 PM
Post by: tarektaha on November 18, 2010, 08:09:00 AM
Post by: MrX4000 on November 18, 2010, 08:14:00 AM
QUOTE(tarektaha @ Nov 18 2010, 10:09 AM)
I have a banned console updated to kinect dashboard can't i just keep Changing new games to lower wave and keep playing off line? or AP2.5 will not allow this?
Simple answer ......... No .... and Yes to your second part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
This post has been edited by MrX4000: Nov 18 2010, 04:16 PM
Post by: sauerkraut on November 18, 2010, 08:23:00 AM
QUOTE(steveo1978 @ Nov 16 2010, 06:52 PM)
Ok backups on Live is against Xbox Live ToS and are also against forum rules so I am gonna start handing out suspension for every one mentioning they are playing backups on live.
Oh really...
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/hsdemonz/rules/Rules.htm or http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=573379
QUOTE
-People can discuss and state their firmware, drives, and method of construction for their backups, and whether or not they have taken the box or the backups in question on LIVE.
This is a big change to our XS Piracy related rules, as it will allow the membership free speech to mention they are using pirated backups.
This is a big change to our XS Piracy related rules, as it will allow the membership free speech to mention they are using pirated backups.
I believe you are mistaken and therefore it would be wise to not threaten suspension over something the rules clearly state is acceptable.
I'm sure I'll get suspended/banned over this, but it needed to be said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)
This post has been edited by sauerkraut: Nov 18 2010, 04:55 PM
Post by: lrod2344 on November 18, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
QUOTE(astr4twin @ Nov 17 2010, 08:14 PM)
Thank's for taking time out to clear that up for me but im still a little confised. I understand your saying it may or may not happen that they may have AP2.5 laying dormant within them and that a TU could wake them up but is it fact they will then fail to boot when using LT+ and not using SSV3 or just your views. Ill explain a little better.....
My original thoughts before you explained it were that the new LT+ will report that the game was original and pass the AP2.5 checks and it did not matter if it was SSV1,V2 or V3 so therefore i would be ok burning NFS on SSV1 or SSV2. Basically i thought the LT+ FW on the drive was doing all the work to pass checks and there was nothing really needed to pass on the backup disk side of things. I only thought SSV was to do with being safe on live if M$ ever checked.
So just to clarify things.....
To pass AP2.5 and a game to boot in future you will need to be using LT+ and a backup disc will have to contain SSV3?
LT+ and an AP2.5 game burned with SSV2 will not boot?
I have a large number of games and i think if i had to burn them all off again, not only would it be too time consuming, it would be really expensive. Even after this a year down the line M$ could do something else and then games would require SSV4 or similar so id have to start burning them all again.
I think if you factored all the time & money into it, it would work out cheaper to buy a new 360 and not to accept the update that awoke AP2.5 in older games. I could then play all my old games on one 360 and burn future games with SSV3 for the new 360.
As you say, we do not know if this will ever happen but i will not bother to burn my backups of AC:BH and NFS off yet untill i can patch the SSV3 files into them.
Right... Pre-NXE dash has no AP25.... Newer AP25 Titiles will require a dash update to even play... Dash update has AP25 checks built-in..... AP25 will not allow a given title to even BOOT which fails AP25 checks..... a TITILE CANNOT pass any AP25 checks WITHOUT SSV3..... SSV3 isnt available yet..... pre-LT+ Firmware cannot respond to AP25 checks nor query SSV3 on a disc. The only Drives which cannot respond to AP25 are Samsungs and Early Hitachis and ONLY if they are the ORIGINAL drive which was married to the console (OSIG)
So to use any AP25 games SAFELY or for some even AT ALL you need:
Fall 2010 Dash (Kinect Dash)
LT+ Firmware (no exception) for Hitachi 78 and newer, BenQ and Lite-on Drives (Sammys and Pre-78 Hitachis are exempt from AP25) online OR Offline/ Banned or NOT
SSV3 on disc (need to re-burn) Unless already banned and using Samsung or Pre-78 Hitachi Drive then no need to re-burn.
This is just the way it is.... MOST if not all of us (except for the lucky few who still have a Sammy or Hitachi drive) Will have to start to re-burn our titles.
Hopefully ABGX v 1.1.0 will be released in time with LT+ to help us determine which titles need to actually be re-burned but for now as you said I wouldnt even bother to burn it the first time.
This quote is from ABGX Site:
2010/11/06:
abgx360 v1.0.3 released!
Changes affecting all platforms:
- Added full support for all current PFI/Video waves and the ability for future waves to be fully supported through updates to abgx360.dat
- The SplitVid check is now mandatory when checking an ISO/DVD and the "Check Stealth" option is enabled (iXtreme LT requires SplitVid for XBL safety)
Note: The GUI has not been changed and will still display version 1.0.2, don't worry about it as long as the CLI app displays v1.0.3
Sorry for the long release interval but v1.1.0 is taking much longer than expected and hopefully this interim update will address the main concern people were having, even though v1.0.2 was designed to support new PFI/Video waves as long as the game was verified, v1.0.3 gets rid of the yellow text and also allows you to check SplitVid on newer games that haven't been verified yet. It does not, however, add automatic searching/patching of SS v2 files. That's something that isn't even finished in v1.1.0 yet, and there's still the matter of SS v3 to deal with.
Note 2: XBL safety is very uncertain at the moment... The latest LT firmware for Samsung drives is considered by many to be fairly safe (since the TS-H943A ms25/ms28 original firmware doesn't support AP 2.5) but owners of other drives need to be very careful and upgrade to LT+ when it becomes available.
This post has been edited by lrod2344: Nov 18 2010, 05:18 PM
Post by: steveo1978 on November 18, 2010, 11:37:00 AM
QUOTE(sauerkraut @ Nov 18 2010, 10:23 AM)
I believe you are mistaken and therefore it would be wise to not threaten suspension over something the rules clearly state is acceptable.
Maybe You should read a little farther
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 22 2007, 05:29 PM)
-People CANNOT promote piracy, promote backups on LIVE. Prolonged comments, whether ethical, financial, or political about using backups on LIVE (a clear violation of LIVE TOS) will get you a ban. So choose every word on these issues carefully. There is no Reprieve. There is also no reversal of XS bans for people banned on this forum previous to this posting.
The warning still stands.