Post by: lasertechdh on May 23, 2010, 06:25:00 PM
I had an older 360 which I went though 5 lasers and two drives (all BenQ), and all ended up as Open Tray within 2 weeks after flashing with, originally, ixtreme 6.x, then later, LT.
Finally, I decided to ditch the box and get a new one. I got an Arcade that had a Liteon 9c, so I did the solder/switch trick to extract the key. I then re-soldered the traces (checked with MM), then I flashed the drive with LT. It said it copied the calibration data as well. This was a little more than a month ago.
I have been playing games fine, for about 28 days, until now, as I am getting an open tray error again on this new box. I even copied my game to the drive to play it so the laser wasn't getting used much.
Potential Issues:
1. The problem to me seems like the flashing of the firmware, whether ixtreme 6 or LT, was causing Open Tray
2. I could have been unlucky and the Liteon 9c drive i got in my new box could have just died, whether I modded it or not
3. Could the issue be with the Calibration Data no being copied correctly? This would seem to make the most sense as the laser could be wearing itself out after being flashed. And before you comment on the low quality of Liteon drives, this happened 90% of the time with a BenQ.
What do you guys think? Some people suggest unplugging the laser cable before flashing, to avoid future Open Tray problems. Does this work?
I don't know what to do anymore. I am going to replace the laser in my 9c this week, and hopefully Open Tray does not come back. However, I think it is the firmware and it will indeed come back in a few weeks to a month.
What can I do to stop this? I am sick and tired of going through this BS and just to be able to play a game without the f*cking box breaking all the time. This is really ridiculous.
Post by: Ranger72 on May 23, 2010, 06:32:00 PM
Post by: iateshaggy on May 23, 2010, 07:16:00 PM
Post by: lasertechdh on May 23, 2010, 10:36:00 PM
However, there was the posting on JF forums about a guy who recommends disconnecting the ribbon cable before reading or flashing, and doing so will spare you from any Open Tray errors down the road. While he admittedly says he has no proof that this works, he and the people that posted to his thread had circumstantial evidence that it does work.
Either way, I am not hear to argue that, as you most likely both agree would be pointless and a waste of time.
What I would like to get going is a conversation from knowledgeable installers and experts in this area as to why, at least, my problem is occurring. If it is happening to me, it has to be happening to other people. If I can help someone not go through my frustration, I would gladly do so and I think maybe we can figure out this problem, if anyone cares to share their technical thoughts and feelings in this matter.
What do you guys believe is happening in my case? I always use Verbatims burned at 2.4x, my system is well ventilated, no dust buildup, clean discs, etc. It seems that this Open Tray problem jumps from system to system, drive to drive, no matter what. I am a man of science, so this seems superstitious and not something I want to admit.
Rather, there must be something I am doing wrong "as opposed" to everyone else? I am a Software Developer and I have a CS degree, so I feel I am pretty knowledgeable about electronics/computers. I have read months worth of material on modding and the 360 and what not, and I don't know what I could be doing wrong. 5 lasers and 3 drives, across 2 Xboxes, and I keep getting Open Tray. I really wish I knew more about electronics to where I could attach diagnostic equipment and log movements of the laser and compare them against a baseline.
The fact is this. My XBOX was modded for a year and worked fine. Immediately after I was banned back in November (about 2 weeks later) I got Open Tray for the first time, and since then, it keeps coming back, even in my new XBOX. This invokes conspiracy theories in my mind, and I have even considered not signing onto Live and blocking all communication to it on my Router's Firewall. But this is a bit extreme...
What is your professional opinion?
Post by: iateshaggy on May 23, 2010, 11:07:00 PM
even w/o that knowledge, it is usually a laser going bad. if you install games to your hdd, your drive will last longer, but i'd imagine that may shorten the life of the hdd.
Post by: mmcmedia on May 24, 2010, 12:39:00 AM
you decide but iam sold
This post has been edited by mmcmedia: May 24 2010, 07:40 AM
Post by: lasertechdh on May 24, 2010, 04:38:00 AM
Open Tray = nothing will play, not Originals, backups, DVD, etc.
Oct 2008 - Bought a 360 Falcon w/BenQ drive
Nov 10th - Recently banned and I get Open Tray
Nov 20th - Replaced Laser and played for an hour, before going to airport for Thanksgiving...
Dec 3rd - Arrived home to Open Tray errors on all games (played for hour, left for vacay, come back, and SURPRISE)
Dec 10th - Replace Laser Again
Dec 19th to Jan 5th - Xmas Vacay
Jan 15th - Open Tray
Jan 23 - Replace Laser
Feb 8th - I keep getting Open Tray. I try 75 times. on the 76th try, it loads. I leave my system on for a few errls without ejecting so I can keep playing a game in the drive
Feb 20th - Had to reboot Xbox, Open Tray, tried loading game 200+ times, won't work
Feb 27th - Replace Laser, works for two weeks, then trouble reading games. leave system constantly on with game in drive because I know once I eject or power off, it will be Perma Open Tray
March 19th - had to reboot xbox, Open Tray, can't get a game to load even after repeated trying
March 19th - Replace Laser with one I had ordered in advance (HAH!)
April 3th - Open Tray (NEW LASER BREAKS AGAIN, WTF. This one had a catastrophic mechanical failure though, the screw on the white thing with the spring FLEW OUT while playing, game got all scratched. Screw was ruined. replaced screw but that bought me 2 days, then it died)
April 7 - Replace entire drive with Brand New BenQ, Flash with LT
April 17th - Open Tray, to my utter amazement as it is a new drive
April 17th - I buy new 360 Arcade, with a Liteon 9c
April 19th - Successfully modded. Playing Originals and Backups, back on live, happy!
May 19th - Open Tray Error, but I get it to read a game on the 7th try, leave system on so I can play game
May 23th - 360 locks up (don't try to quickly sign into Live, after picking Play Game, while watching a video). When it comes back up, no lock, Perma Open Tray.. close tray... reading... open tray...
So I went through 2 systems, 5 lasers, and 3 total drives (counting my original, which I guess doesn't count as it worked for a year). This new system open trayed in a month!. Am I cursed? Is M$ sending Death Signals to my static IP?. Am I just unlucky? Should I buy a PS3?
I am replacing the laser for the first time on my new system this Wednesday (When it arrives). I bet i get another good 2 weeks or maybe even a month!
I live alone, no one else has access to the system. I am very busy with work and stuff so I don't even game very often. It's not like I am wearing down the system. I do watch videos on it often. I installed the game to the HDD on my new system when I got it as well.
I feel like the unluckiest gamer on the planet...
This post has been edited by lasertechdh: May 24 2010, 11:46 AM
Post by: Buzzcut on May 24, 2010, 06:39:00 AM
Seems like a stunning failure rate however, makes me wonder if those replacement lasers were seconds/reconditioned. I'm amazed that a brand new BenQ only lasted 10 days though, I've replaced 15/20 drives with BenQs and they've been rock solid...something's not right.
Unlucky is not the word if it's pure coincidence.
Post by: iateshaggy on May 24, 2010, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: Maximize on May 24, 2010, 09:25:00 AM
Either way I think this gets blown out of proportion, because the people who have had these problems have had them 2, 3 4 times over. and if you had to replace your laser today after flashing last week, that flash is not why it goes bad again next week or next month
Post by: lasertechdh on May 29, 2010, 04:13:00 AM
I just replaced the laser in my Lite-On in the new 360 i bought a month and a half ago. I was extremely careful and put everything back the way it was (no screw too loose, no screw over tightened).
It's working, for now. Let's hope this works permanently. If not it will be another failure. I'll know in 2 weeks to a month, which seems to be the maximum amount of time a new laser or drive gets me! Must be underpants gnomes...
I'll keep this thread updated. Thank you everyone for your helpful comments, feedback, and thoughts.
Buzzcut
Seems like a stunning failure rate however, makes me wonder if those replacement lasers were seconds/reconditioned. I'm amazed that a brand new BenQ only lasted 10 days though, I've replaced 15/20 drives with BenQs and they've been rock solid...something's not right.
Only one seemed used, the rest had the solder ball on it and was ordered from a reseller on Amazon with quite a high rating. I even complained to them and they sent me a free replacement. However, you never know...
You are right though, something is not right, because the BenQ drive/laser kept breaking over and over.
iateshaggy
maybe u need to tweak your pot. increase the resistance until you quit burning up lasers.
One of my friends recommended this to me too, thinking that the a new laser from the factory had too low of a resistance. This is something I can try, and will report back on. However, by brand new 360 with the Lite-On had a Resistance of 6.4, which is pretty high.
Maximize
if the drives or lasers are getting damaged, I would imagine it is your method, and or tools. I use a maximus extractor (with probe for 7 series) and have never once had this problem, and I have never disconnected the ribbon cable. what I am saying is the there may be some faulty xtractor, ck3, diycrap, or maybe even powering with the console is bad. maybe your computers 12v and or 5v are off I have seen 5v lines be 6v and 12v's be 11v.
Either way I think this gets blown out of proportion, because the people who have had these problems have had them 2, 3 4 times over. and if you had to replace your laser today after flashing last week, that flash is not why it goes bad again next week or next month
Hmm. The only issue with your conjecture, while it is much appriecated, is only this latest install that went Open Tray a month later was a Lite-On that required a DIY Tool which I made myself (hency the DIY, heh).
All of the other failures were on BenQ's with replaced lasers or an entire replaced drive.
Post by: GomerPyle on May 29, 2010, 05:06:00 AM
Buy a new Burner and I guarantee you problem solved!
Trust me when I say this! Ive seen this all too often, Get a Sony or Lite on do some research on a good burner to buy they are dirt cheap
Post by: lasertechdh on May 29, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
After reading what I read Im 99.9% positive its your Burner!!
Buy a new Burner and I guarantee you problem solved!
Trust me when I say this! Ive seen this all too often, Get a Sony or Lite on do some research on a good burner to buy they are dirt cheap
You know, I think you may be right. I mean, this burner actually crapped out once, has serious issues, then started working again. I totally forgot about it. It's a Lite-on, but some OEM model, though, only < 2 years old. I thought about it being the problem briefly, and dismissed it because all other discs I burn work fine in other units. But laser assemblies being the precision instruments that they are, in-detectable issues could cause wear over time.
It is statistical improbability that the drives, lasers, and new 360's would keep breaking in the same pattern. And since I went though 2 different packs of Verbatims while encountering this problem, its safe to say it's not a defect in the discs.
As Sherlock would say, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. The only thing not accounted for is the burner in all of this. I am definitely going to get a new burner now, and have to re-burn my discs
, but it is worth not going through this headache anymore. It's a crappy IDE one anyway, I'll get a SATA.I'll keep you posted.
Post by: iateshaggy on May 29, 2010, 09:30:00 PM
Post by: lasertechdh on May 30, 2010, 03:33:00 AM
my last lite-on burner lasted less than a month. i will only run plextors now.
Yeah, Plextor is an old favorite. But even so, I was thinking of this one. It was highly rating on new egg.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827106335
What do you think?
Does anyone else have any good links to cheap but good burners?
Post by: Haygar on May 30, 2010, 06:36:00 AM
I also swear by the original MS-25/28 samsung 360 drives to the point that I've swapped out the Benq/Liteon (have two of these brand new out of my boxes in storage). LT didn't solve some of the lag on the benq that annoyed me back when iX 1.4 was around. A quick test I do is use the intro in Forza Motorsport II (where the're racing after the press start icon appears). The benq will show stutters but the sammy's are as smooth as. I just seem to be able to throw any quick rip at the sammy's and they run. They were the good s*#t in the old xbox.
Sure, some will say that they also get open tray but that is usually either slipping belt (use some belt grip on a cotton bud, only have to open the tray to access it), or laser getting confused after inserting disc (put O-ring on sled at spindle end), have not had to do this personally.
A friend of mine still has my launch MS-25 in his console due to a drive board fault in his MS-28 where it would just intermittently play dead, weird but thats electronics.
I honestly can't knock the liteons, but I have friends with those that have issues with some backups and upon testing on a samsung will run flawlessly. The Benq just isn't as smooth on some known games and sounds the same, too.
Apparently the benq laser is interchangable with the liteon (they are of course just different revisions) but thats not to say that they are the same exact laser. I've been tempted to grab the laser out of the liteon and test the results in the benq.
Edit: Forgot to mention I use xtreme 5.3 12x, great non-stealth FW.