Post by: XanTium on December 07, 2005, 01:55:00 PM
Post by: iLLNESS on December 07, 2005, 02:06:00 PM
no one is forced to buy this game. u dont have to play it. you dont have to watch.
if this was teh case, pornography should be banned from stores also
Post by: is this name taken too? on December 07, 2005, 02:13:00 PM
Post by: imamafackinhokie on December 07, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
To be honest, I don't see why GTA is getting all of the publicity, when The Guy Game, featured a 17 year old girl who lied to get on the show, then bared it all in the game. (Basically kiddie porn, because it wasnt with a parent's concent).
So why should stores be not allowed to sell GTA type games, and still sell the soft-porn games?
Post by: mammothmoth on December 07, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
Post by: L337CH337 on December 07, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
Freedom of Speech basically. If Rockstar has the ability to press a disc that will play on the Xbox with the content they want, so be it. If anyone is to blame, it's game retailers, but that only goes so far.
Post by: mastersloth on December 07, 2005, 02:31:00 PM
Post by: nfs911 on December 07, 2005, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: Trevante on December 07, 2005, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: IlcoopIl on December 07, 2005, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: CamdogXIII on December 07, 2005, 02:40:00 PM
Post by: leijae on December 07, 2005, 03:10:00 PM
QUOTE(mammothmoth @ Dec 7 2005, 10:25 PM) 
I Think, it shouldnt be baned bc yea, its freedom to buy what you want. Simply put, if you dont like it then dont buy it
great argument. it's up to the parents.
Post by: tweak41 on December 07, 2005, 04:08:00 PM
Post by: Metalb00 on December 07, 2005, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: quarky42 on December 07, 2005, 04:27:00 PM
Bottom Line: Retailers should pay severe fines for selling to under age people. I don't care if your mommy or daddy said you could play the game. Parents can order it online if they can't make it to the store (and save some money to boot). Legal guardians should "parent" their kids. There is no substitute for a concerned parental unit. The government and everyone else should step off my #ick and not try to tell me what I can and can't play by trying to stop the sale of a stupid game.
This is similiar to what other people are saying. Just my little spin on it.
Post by: cyberg4 on December 07, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Maybe they should just have all M rated games contain a generic large "M" on thier cover, covering the crucial parts of an explict photo or a grusome picture, so that parents will stop buying this stuff for their 3 year old.
Post by: Joergen on December 07, 2005, 05:19:00 PM
GTA type games can only get better with the X360 and PS3 but only in the hands of these talented developers like Rockstar who know what makes the games great, and its not just the sensless violence.
Post by: Vayate on December 07, 2005, 05:23:00 PM
QUOTE(is this name taken too? @ Dec 7 2005, 04:13 PM)
retailers should have been enforcing the age limits on buying games in the first place. irresponsible parents should not be controlling what we can buy.
As opposed to... irresponsible Congress that knows nothing about what's good for the country? Remember, these idiots were ELECTED by those irresponsible parents en masse, and as a result there are very few who aren't completely incompetent (despite some flashes os semi-intelligence). Let people who know their kids decide what to do -- it's the parents' jobs to parent and raise their children, NOT Congress's, and Congress needs to remember that what may be good for their children isn't necessarily good for everyone's.
If nothing else, every time the government makes a choice for us, we lose a little bit of that American freedom we cherish so dearly. In principle, we should be much more careful about where and why we trade some of that freedom for stability and the good of the whole.
Post by: Sechy on December 07, 2005, 05:44:00 PM
I think there should be a fine if a game is sold to a minor and should not be. This will help retail stores from selling it to kids. This should also be enforced with secret shoppers to see if they would sale to a kid.
If we ban video games because of content then we should ban TV, Movies, Music and all other source of entertainment all together.
Post by: majik655 on December 07, 2005, 06:28:00 PM
Yup banning something because it "causes" people to do bad things is just like sueing a bartender because you drove home drunk and crashed.
It is soooo much easier to blame others than to take credit for being ignorant.
Would I mind if the stores stopped selling to under 18year olds.. NO that is the stores right and is a good way to help parents.
A store also has the right to refuse to carry anything it wants because it may not go with their style or whatever the reason it is their right. BUT TO MAKE A BAN ON ALL RETAIL CHAINS (that seems to be higher than just the stores making the decision.. it sounds like it would be LAW and that is wrong)
my 2 cents.
Post by: xboxuser5 on December 07, 2005, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: Megamil on December 07, 2005, 06:42:00 PM
QUOTE(Joergen @ Dec 7 2005, 07:26 PM)
Sadly GTA3 and VC were one of the best, few, original and most next-gen titles of last-gen. Ban those and you ban a third of what gaming is at its best.
GTA type games can only get better with the X360 and PS3 but only in the hands of these talented developers like Rockstar who know what makes the games great, and its not just the sensless violence.
You must be kidding me. GTA3 and VC couldn't hold a candle to San Andreas. That game is top notch. From the things you can do to the atmosphere of the game. They created a masterpiece just like with GTA3 and VC. But to say that they are better than SA is crazy. I guess you didn't like the gangsta gangsta theme too much
Back to the topic:
They say Rated M for Mature for a reason. I thought it was stupid to change the rating from 17+ to 18 and over. I mean come on....I knew everything I knew at 18 and 17. Hell, I knew that same stuff at 16....lol
Post by: Jameson42 on December 07, 2005, 08:53:00 PM
In Illinois, it is illegal for retailers to sell M-rated products to anyone under the age of 17 without parental consent. Retailers are required to ask for ID from anyone who looks younger than 50.
I work in retail, and I see tons of kids come through my store every day. Many of them without parents. Anyone who looks younger than 16 who comes in we ask them to come back with their parents. Many parents go to malls with their kids and use stores as a form of babysitting. I understand the reasoning - for example a mother wants to look at clothes, or a father's buying a present for his kids and doesn't want them to see, etc., etc... but I still think that there are a lot of parents out there who are not responsible. Many of them don't care if their kids play mature games, because "there's worse stuff on the news every night".
Gun, which is a horrible game on any system, is incredibly popular with children. I often have to describe to parents who come in asking for the game just what it contains. Some still buy it for their child because so-and-so's parents let him play it. So they think it's ok because his friend does it. Classic "Jump off a bridge" arguement.
I swear, people should be required to get licenced in order to parent. At least an IQ test.
Post by: Mr.INSANE on December 07, 2005, 09:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Megamil @ Dec 8 2005, 02:49 AM)
You must be kidding me. GTA3 and VC couldn't hold a candle to San Andreas. That game is top notch. From the things you can do to the atmosphere of the game. They created a masterpiece just like with GTA3 and VC. But to say that they are better than SA is crazy. I guess you didn't like the gangsta gangsta theme too much
Edited for Size
The guy has an opionion you know. Just becuase you say SA is better doesnt make it so.
Back to SA though
personally i could care less about the gangsta theme that actually pulled me out of the game. No offense but the whole story was pretty stupid. The game was pretty linear aswell ala I didnt want todo anything related to gangsta and stuff but your forced todo them if you want to get anywhere. I think SA was pretty much more of the same. There wherent any major plot changes and the games characters where horrible. Once again though this is an opionion which everyone is entitled to.
Back on Topic though
It is the parents fault but there are some other factors involved. Although parents should know what there children are doing many are usally working by todays standards thus making it hard to really know whats happening in there lives. The new law where only 18 year olds can buy M games is crap. This isnt going to help in anyway the problem is parents. Unfortanetly theres no real way to change that. There are some parents who really know whast going on and actually oppose that law. Being 15 My Idea on it may be a tad biased though since im angry i cant get the games (Considering most games are M anyways).
This also is kinda like the harry potter book thing people would burn the books and write angry letters. When all they really need todo is not buy the book. Sometimes for things like this theres a stupidly simple answer which parents tend to ignore. If you dont like the product dont buy it.
To sum it up for the lazy "If you dont like the product dont buy it"
Post by: quarky42 on December 07, 2005, 09:40:00 PM
QUOTE(Mr.INSANE @ Dec 7 2005, 10:08 PM)
This isnt going to help in anyway the problem is parents. Unfortanetly theres no real way to change that.
That is definately one way of looking at it. I disagree though. Perhaps making parents more responsible for the actions of their "little darlings" might force them to make dealing with their kids a priority. Working hard is hardly an excuse for why their kid turned into a *ickf4ce. Your kid doesn't know right from wrong, goes out and severely harms someone or kills them legal guardian doesn't pass go, doesn't collect $200, and goes straight to prison for a couple years. You ask what happens to the kid? Good question. Give them two choices. 1> Work their ass off helping the community, probation, and tons of supervised community service (and after so many hours of community service they reduce their parents' sentance) or 2> they can go to prison where someone else will work their ass off. Their choice.
I like tollerating lots of things: People's unique differences, races, religions, free speech... and much more. I am very intollerant of kids that haven't been taught the rough life lessons my parents whupped into me. Ya I was spanked when I screwed up. I learned there were consequences to life. "parents are too busy" does not excuse them from making their kids education (life lessons) a major priority.
Just like we shouldn't tollerate our rights being taken away from us, I don't think we should tollerate parents making excuses for why they couldn't do their job. Is their child growing up to be a strong individual that knows right and wrong less important than anything else in life? I dare say it is the most important thing a parent can do for their kid. Work pays the bills. Money does you know good if your little darling is in jail or prison. (well I guess you could send them a pack of cigarettes)
Post by: I like peanuts on December 07, 2005, 11:50:00 PM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 01:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
I disagree with some of that. For one, what difference does it make if you can kill cops or not? It's the exact same just they have a gun now. I know your argument will be. Yes they are here to help but what people fail to realize, it's just a game, it does'nt manipulate kids into doing something. It's just a stupid way of parents not admitting that they screwed up. Take the kid that had a shootout at the school not too long ago. His parents were abusive. And as for your play need for speed theory... Total and utter bullcrap. The only way it would affect your driving is if its fresh on your mind, and your oppinion on if the test (if it would work or not) would affect your driving. Basically i mean if you think that the theory is true, then of course your mind, even though you think your not, is going to tell you to go a little faster or vice versa.
Ok My Friend was typeing that one and had to go play Halo 2, so i going to finish what he was saying.
Its total bull shit what you are trying to say. I play GTA all the time and I have cops who are my friends. I not going to go out there and start kill people at random. You know why? Because my parents taught me better than that. Its not the kids fault it is the Parents. The Parents fault for never teaching their kid right and wrong.
Post by: devilmaycry666 on December 08, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 04:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
So from what your saying if i were to go play a deer hunting game right now. I would get better at hunting?
Your full of it. You don't have a clue what your talking about go away! 
Post by: peteer01 on December 08, 2005, 05:43:00 AM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 8 2005, 06:38 AM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
I see your point, and agree that the game should certainly be restricted in such a way that minors cannot easily get their hands on it, just as they cannot easily see an NC-17 movie.
That said, and I think you probably will agree with what I say next, I think there should be as few restriction as possible on what content is allowed by law in games sold to adults. (Just a tangent on that: Quite a few of the Japanese dating sims sold here would be illegal to sell and possibly possess in the US.)
Post by: Chicken_Chaser on December 08, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
, not that it's even that violent anyway (no flaming of Halo intended) 
. I just think parents need to mellow out, that's all. Thanks for reading my huge post haha. EDIT: With the hype over the recent mini-game in San Andreas, the only way to acutally get it is to change the game's HEX code (from what i've heard) so technically not alot of minors are going to be cracking SA and playing the hidden game anyway.
Post by: jaxxmanuk on December 08, 2005, 08:42:00 AM
So while GTA SA for instance is rated as M for Mature in say the US, in the UK it's rated M for Mature and given an 18 Certificate meaning that it would be against the law to sell to someone under the age limit.
Vigilant retailers, Good parenting and some forethought on behalf of games designer is all that is need to help this process along.
However times are changing and my 10 year old nephew happily plays on GTA SA. He sees the things depicted in the game on news and in films (shown on TV) and understands what is right and is wrong.
Post by: edged on December 08, 2005, 10:02:00 AM
Post by: rockedthecasbah on December 08, 2005, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: blitzkrg on December 08, 2005, 11:01:00 AM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 10:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
i played all the gta games from start to finish..
i never once went out and killed a cop or even thought about it.
the rest of the world cant be held accountable for what one idiot does.
that's the same as saying nobody can have mc donalds because some people got to fat eating it.
Post by: is this name taken too? on December 08, 2005, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: J0RD4N 007 on December 08, 2005, 12:08:00 PM
A large group of Americans today think on three basic principles, what is the government going to do for me, how much does it cost, and how little work must I accomplish to get what I want. This is not true of all, but it is of most. As shameful as it is I slip into these categories from time to time. Government is not there to do for YOU! Dammnit, I wish I could beat this into some people. Its there to do whats right for the good of the nation. When some ignorant mother sees fame, a quick check from a large publisher, and the empathy of a nation she goes straight to the governement to get what they owe her. She wants action, her child's mind has been violated, she thought games were for kids and this game was horrible. how was she supposed to know that Grand Theft Auto was a game that featured criminals breaking the law? Games should all be safe for kids, busy parents can't be expected to figure out which games are safe and which ones aren't. That's how it all starts. She's too lazy to monitor her children and expects the government to do it for her. She is enchanted by the fame and pity she gets through the media. Her wallet begins to swell with settlements from publishers trying to dodge the bullet.
In a democracy no press is bad press. If someone in a political office, a political campaign, or even just a lawyer can make the news, good or bad in most cases, it is a success. If a politician or lawyer sees a way to make headlines and get there name out, they will jump on it. Do these people dislike these games? Probably. Do they really care enough about what legitimate adults do in there free time as long as it doesn't affect others? Probably not. But will talks of banning games outrage a minority but entrance a majority on the news? Most definately.
But is banning games legal? Well in the most strict view of the constitution it is illegal to ban them on a federal level, but its illegal to ban marijuanna and other illicit substances on a federal level as well but we see how that went. On the state and county levels however its up to the individual legislatures. Hopefully there are enough adults gamers or not that are smart enough to make intelligent decisions about who they vote for, but that is just about all we can do short of forming a militia and marching against the senate while stealing cars, raping hookers, shooting cops, and buying weapons with our drug money....gasp I've been changed! Damn that GTA! lol
So to recap, any form entertainment should be available to adults. Available. Not forced, but just available. It is legal for a state or county to ban games, but quite unethical, and it is up to the citizens to make sure it doesn't happen. Stopping asking the government to make special decisions to help YOU out. Help yourslef and follow the rules so we can get the hell out of this pit of socialism we've fallen into. Don't just boo politicians that take up stupid crusades that you don't like, boo all politicians that take up stupid crusades!
Thats the end of my rant, but one more thing whoever talked about a freedom of choice....IT DOESNT EXIST! NO WHERE IN THE ENTIRE CONSTITUION WILL ANYONE FIND THE RIGHT TO A FREEDOM OF CHOICE! DO NOT QUOTE THINGS THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! THIS IS HOW IGNORANCE GETS SPREAD - I HATE IGNORANCE!
Post by: webMASTER P on December 08, 2005, 12:58:00 PM
i am all for enforcing the sales of the game though, and fining the stores for selling it to minors. Just like it's done with cigaretes and pornagrophy.
Post by: syrius on December 08, 2005, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: dannym on December 08, 2005, 02:03:00 PM
I am fundamentally against the banning of anything. One by one our rights are being stripped away. if they ban GTA what's next? Pretty soon you won't be able to loan a book to someone without some Jackoff wanting royalties.
What needs to be done is restricting the sale to minors, just like cigarettes. And parents using the parental controls when available and monitoring what their little brat kids do.
Because like it or not video games with violence and immorality have a negative effect on children. They do not have the ability do distinguish between reality and fantasy. Also the violence desensitizes them and after a while they begin to think violence is normal and oK.
So NO to banning YES to parental controls.
I would also be for the Neutering/Spaying of certain adults who lack the ability to be a responsible parent.
Danny
Post by: sniper911punk on December 08, 2005, 02:04:00 PM
Post by: PC509 on December 08, 2005, 02:12:00 PM
Thank god for emulation!
My 4 year old love Thomas the Tank. So, instead of hooking up the Sega and running it from that (I have the original cart), I put it on the XBox. He loves it. He's a smart little guy, too. He can navigate the XBMC to get to the emulator and find Thomas on there. He can find the other emulators and whatever game he wants. He can find the video's through the directory structure (memorization, but still!). Smart 4 year old! My 6 year old... He loves to read. He's really not into the whole computer/video game thing... It's all about the parenting. I feel I do a good job (hate to use the word) shielding them from the harshness of the realworld. At least until they get older. If he asks questions, I tell them to his age level. I let him play games relative to his age level. I watch movies PG and up first if he wants to watch them.
Parenting. Not banning. Well, I guess it worked for Hitler!
Post by: ksteiner on December 08, 2005, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: posiedon on December 08, 2005, 02:27:00 PM
if you shoot someone you would of shot them regardless of if you played the game or not
but yes the content is not good for young kids
90% of the young kids at my store that wanted m rated games saw them there on the spot and said "i want"
all we do now is just not put out the game cases on the shelf for display
we still have up all the posters/ads
but for some reason a kid actually seeing the case makes them want it
since we pulled the cases only kids over 15 have been asking
Post by: StepsAscend on December 08, 2005, 02:44:00 PM
Post by: nightmod on December 08, 2005, 04:50:00 PM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 04:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
Thats why its a game! if you dont know to NOT KILL COPS its your parents fault for not teaching you the basics of morality.. not Rockstar for making a FANASTY WORLD that you picked up and played in and could not leave behind...
Post by: itzkid on December 08, 2005, 06:39:00 PM
The whole issue is, why are kids doing what they're doing today, it wasn't as bad fifty years ago ... let's think about it, god forbid now a days you physically punish your child that's abuse! send them to time out ... yea that works great. how many house holds have 2 full time employed parents now? but day cares good right? lets shove all the kids in a room together to learn from each other for 8 hrs a day with 1 adult there to watch. What's personal responsibility? You mean we have to teach our kids ... stuff? And there's how many single parents today? stuff gets hard why work it out, the kids don't mind and neither does the divorce lawyers.
end sarcasm;
Seriously now parents stop blaming everyone and everything because you can't raise your kids. If your kids acting up punish them, you have to instill morals and teach them right from wrong, they don't come out of the womb knowing it. And yes I know some families have to have both parents working full time to make ends meet, but don't rely on day care to teach your kids, SPEND TIME WITH THEM and i don't mean come home and veg out in front of the tv that your blaming all your problems on with them, have them do their homework near you, hold a conversation with them you know ... be their parent.
it all comes down to one thing PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, you did the deed to make the child, now it's your job to mold him/her into a productive member of society, my greatest joy is watching my little boy grow up right now, and i let him play any game he wants barring only nudity, and yet you wouldn't believe how many compliments i get on him being well behaved, the reason being he's scared to be naughty (not scared of me, but scared of consequences). Him and i have a very good relationship and we for the most part have a great time when i get home from work. Point being games aren't our problems.
As far as the comment about play need for speed for a few hrs and go driving and see if it's affected that's a crock of shit. If you drive differently after playing a game you do the same when watching a movie, and you have a problem being so easily influenced. Don't get me wrong sometimes it's in the back of mind when something happens that reminds me of a particular part of the game, but i don't go acting on it and start doin 20 over the limit etc... again personal responsibilty, know reality from fantasy, and fear the consequences
Post by: is this name taken too? on December 08, 2005, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: Syberistic on December 09, 2005, 06:15:00 AM
Let me tell why games are made. Games are made to keep idiots from doing something stupid that could get themselves locked up,killed and who knows what else can happen. You can basically say games are a virtual version of Human life. So would you want to kill somebody in real life and spend 10-20 year in a cell or will you rather kill somebody in a game and spend 2.5 seconds in jail and right back on the street or should I put it into a scenario? "Mommy, im so mad, today jim pushed me down the slide and I hurt my elbow, tomorrow when I go to school I'am going to shoot him just like I seen on Grand theft auto" or how about this "Mommy, im so mad, today jim pushed me down the slide and I hurt my elbow, so im going to go play Grand theft auto and take my anger out there" Pick your poison.
The thing is, you people need to get your lives together and worry about bigger things like the war in iraq and the Katrina victims. Your more worried about how games are violent and show a lil nipple, you parents must forget your the one who brought this upon yourself you brung us into this world and we made it to suit ourselves. If you don't like how games are being developed who really cares cause honestly if the games makers cared they wouldn't be making it so give up on banning shyt. If you think the violence,sex and drugs are bad right now....just wait another 5-10 year it will be worse!
So, I disagree on banning games their is no point!
Post by: Dcp7777 on December 09, 2005, 06:30:00 AM
Post by: StepsAscend on December 09, 2005, 09:22:00 AM
Post by: Jaxter on December 09, 2005, 10:35:00 AM
The only problem is they spawn terrible clone games, like true crime, and that new game starring that pillock 50 cent.
Post by: iNfErNaL666 on December 09, 2005, 11:04:00 AM
Post by: Syberistic on December 09, 2005, 04:04:00 PM
Post by: Moleman on December 09, 2005, 04:19:00 PM
Post by: Jaxter on December 09, 2005, 04:28:00 PM
Now dont we have to ask ourselves where he got this game - most probably from his parents for his birthday - as so many kids got GTA. So who is to blame here. Sorry if i've been ignorant with facts but this is the outline.
Post by: Mr.INSANE on December 09, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
QUOTE(StepsAscend @ Dec 9 2005, 05:29 PM)
I'm not gonna debate this here. There are more intelligent forums for discussion over social issues.
Wow, We that was totally uneeded. Just becuase 1500 people disagree with you doesnt mean the forum is neccesarily stupid. Refrain to my first post on peoples opionions.
Moving on
I really love debating about this to tell the truth. Also I have loved reading all your guys posts on this subject. This really isnt all about gta though games like F.E.A.R and others are under fire from people aswell. Also What i meant was theres no real way to change parents i ment the goverment isnt going todo anything. Aside from meaning that they will most likely not change anyways
Post by: n00bFRAGGER on December 09, 2005, 05:21:00 PM
Post by: Violent-K on December 09, 2005, 06:53:00 PM
I'm sick of playing Halo 2 with 9 year old kids who are better than me.
Violent K
Post by: Master X on December 09, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Post by: medievil on December 10, 2005, 04:21:00 AM
I agree parents should have a more proactive role.. BUT, Are games as graphic as GTA really needed??
I am personally not a fan of them, I find them to be very boring...
But they ARE marjeted to Kids, no one here can deny that.. you look at the ads in print, and on TV and they are CLEARLY trying to get kids to buy it...A few changes and The game could be kid friendly too.. lose the language (Not needed, wouldn't lessen the precieved "Fun")... Lose the needless violence, you wanna hijack a car or rob someone, fine, but beating the crap out of them with a baseball bat?? WAAAAAY over the top and not needed...
Post by: nexus100 on December 10, 2005, 08:52:00 AM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 10:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
that only happens when I play those games on acid.......never play racing games tripping, and then drive...
but seriously, I've never had a desire to kill a cop, no matter how many hundreds of cops I've wasted in video games....videos games influence us no more than every other visual mediaQUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 10:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
that only happens when I play those games on acid.......never play racing games tripping, and then drive...
but seriously, I've never had a desire to kill a cop, no matter how many hundreds of cops I've wasted in video games....videos games influence us no more than every other visual media
Post by: darkhunter121589 on December 10, 2005, 07:08:00 PM
or like Grand Theft Auto made my son blow up his school i mean these people are just stupid? just think about it!
Post by: thebroken on December 10, 2005, 10:29:00 PM
Post by: Syberistic on December 11, 2005, 06:20:00 AM
But im just tired of hearing parents blaming game developers over a game, parents telling game developers "After my son played Grand theft auto he went to school the next day and shot it up!!" Number 1 question I want to ask "How did you kid get the gun?" it didn't just magically appear under his pillow, you gave him access to it you provided the ammo. 80% of the crap that happening right now are the parents fault. Half of the kids these days are not all there in the head anyway so why buy a game for your child to screw him/her up even more? Friggin idiots
Post by: pride on December 11, 2005, 07:42:00 AM
if they actually were active in their kids lives they would've seen that gta: sa bared the M rating which is 17+. I don't know about you, but I'm just fine with my 17 year old kid lookin at some people having sex. They show it in the schools in health class which happened for me at 15.
Also on this argument, the content people wanted to use required quite a bit of work to actually access. Any parent playing an active role in the kids life would ask what they are downloading or check on it as to be sure you aren't getting viruses & spyware.
but hey, parents are lazy and also thiefs. They're going to turn this mundane issue into something huge just because of their idiocy and laziness.
Thanks USA, I love you.
Post by: thorFlea on December 11, 2005, 09:25:00 AM
Ultmatlly the responsibility for what games kids are playing belongs to the parents. But because kids are playing these games, for what ever reason, the game producers do have a responsibility. If the gaming industry does not come up with some guidelines / controls we will all see governmental laws put in place to control the industry as a whole.
Post by: itzkid on December 11, 2005, 09:32:00 AM
QUOTE(thorFlea @ Dec 11 2005, 05:32 PM)
Although I voted no to banning the game I do feel that the gaming industry as a whole does have a moral responsability to uphold. Do video games need more realistic gore/guts/distrtruction to be successful? No, they don't. The more visually realistic these games become the more we become de-sencitized to the morality of killing/hurting others. As an adult knowing the differance from right and wrong its easy to seporate game play from the real world. Children on the other hand might have a hard time making the distinction.
Bologna, it's completely parents jobs to teach kids the difference from fantasy and reality and make them understand consequences. they won't become de-sensitized to the morality of killing/hurting others by playing games if they understand the difference, hell my 6 year old can prove that. In my house hold we have an array of violent games as I love to play them with my son, but what we don't do is watch the news, you wanna become de-sensitized turn on the 5 o'clock news and see what's happening in reality, then try to explain that to your kids. i still don't blame the media for that, the news wouldn't have that morbid shit to report on if the parents would get their heads outa their asses and raise their kids.
Post by: Tommy Vercetti on December 11, 2005, 01:46:00 PM
QUOTE(IlcoopIl @ Dec 7 2005, 05:38 PM)
I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway this is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.
are you for real??!?! you've got to be kidding. If you can't tell the difference between reality and a friggan video game then you shouldn't have a license, or a console. I mean come on. I've been playing video games since the Vic 20, and I have been driving for 12 years, and I can honestly say when I play burnout revenge I don't get behind the wheel and drive like a maniac and try to run people off the road, how can you even think that's a game? If this is something you experienced yourself this is the reason these games are going to eventually end up getting banned. The game has NO effect on the person. Unless that person is very young like a child and has no idea what goes on in the real world. hence the age limits enforced on these types of games. Or if that person has some mental issues. Cuz lets face it you should be able to walk out your door and decipher reality from the fantasy. And if you cant then you need to see a doctor or stop playing games.
I had to add some more. I am also a father of a 8 year old girl. That has seen and played GTA at one of her friends house. So there are loop holes for kids, cuz not all parents are responsible and that is the bottom line. Kids learn from adults and if the adults are irresponsible well then guess what. My daughter does not play mature games. Hello Kitty, Barbie games. Maybe some racing games. But when she asked to play the game where she could run over people I said NO. And then I called her friends parents and let them know I don't want her exposed to that and that their kids shouldn't be playing that. Because I am a RESPONSIBLE parent.
I don't see why games are the big issue here. There are dozens of violent cartoons and shows on TV that kids have easy access to. And movies. That being said its the same arena, porn is the other end of the spectrum when it comes to videos. And parents seems to have no problem keeping that out of reach. So apply the same mentality to games. Maybe this is a new thing for parents who are not in the know to understand. Myself growing up around computers since the Commodore can understand this day and age, but many parents cannot and are not educated enough to know how to enforce limits on the TV, the internet and the consoles. And education is the only answer.
That being said, ban my game and I'll whack ya!
Post by: cRACKmONKEY421 on December 11, 2005, 05:30:00 PM
I love the logic conservatives use.
Game companies DO have a moral obligation.. which is to make gamers happy. If others have a problem with that they should hate the player, not the game. Conservatives piss me off. Close your mind at focus on God; that should make you feel better about yourself.
It's not my fault, GTA made me a killer! Those evil game developers should rot in hell; they're the devil.
Seriously though, Fry's sells Mature labeled games, R rated movies, and a whole section of porn. Should the moral obligation of a mature game maker be any different from that of the makers of R rated or X rated material!? Think about it idiots, it's all meant for the same crowd.
Post by: bluesdealer on December 11, 2005, 08:31:00 PM
QUOTE(quarky42 @ Dec 7 2005, 05:27 PM)
"I wish ... concerned right wing nutjobs, politicians (see previous category) ... would realize that a game is a form of entertainment, expression, art, and free speech. "
Actually, the two biggest politicians in favor of videogame censorship are Hilary Clinton and Joe Lieberman. Arnold Schwartzeneggar is what we conservatives like to call a RINO (Republican In Name Only); just look at his stance on major issues... the guy's basically a socialist. In an interview with gamepolitics.com, Jack Thompson said that while he has no loyalty to any one party, he finds himself siding with Democrats the majority of the time. When George W. Bush, who most gamers love to ridicule, was confronted about DOOM teaching kids violence, he said that what a child plays is the responsibility of parents. In fact, the conservative stance on issues like this (guns, etc) sides with personal freedom and responsibility. Conservatives favor a smaller, less controlling government (state's rights, etc) while liberals want a centralized, regulatory government (more welfare and government programs). Now, of course there will be politicians who will try to win popularity contests by going on moral crusades, but not all Republicans are true conservatives. Just try to keep these things in mind when you generalize political ideologies.
QUOTE
I love the logic conservatives use.
Once again, the conservative ideology is about less government control and more personal freedom.
Post by: Vfreitas on December 11, 2005, 10:24:00 PM
Post by: Hellboy213 on December 11, 2005, 11:24:00 PM
Personally i think its stupid that people actually go and act out what goes on in games such as GTA..
i know someone who is 11 and has ADHD and even he can tell the difference between what is right and what is wrong and he plays GTA which has no effect on his attitude at all!
some games of these types are also very educational in the way that the children can learn that if you kill a cop you get put in to prison or even killed eventually.
BUT: they may only be education if supervised by an adult...
im not saying that childeren under the rating should be allowed to play it however.
WHY are they planning to put bans on games like this if WAAAAAY more people argue against it?!?!? ITS STUPID!
Post by: Reaper527 on December 12, 2005, 01:09:00 AM
Post by: mr_abz on December 12, 2005, 05:31:00 AM
Never before have we had the accessibility to such visual gore and torment (hey gamers like different genres) since the day of Doom and Unreal.
Personally, I rekon that games are banned from Internet sites / E-Shops where there isn't a shop assistant to verify the age. Yes its cheaper to buy online, but if we are going to get mass serial killers / homicides (same thing but for diff regions).
Shops should enforce buying 18+ games. They should ask for ID, just as strictly as they do normally with cigarettes or alcohol.
And what more, why is it the parents b!tching when its is they who buy the games for the small urchins. They must have more common sense than their children and should not buy the game because it has the 'PGEI' rating or whatever it is on the front.
All in all, parents that complain about restricted age games should not buy them for under-agers, and damn them for buying it in the first place.
Post by: cRACKmONKEY421 on December 12, 2005, 10:29:00 AM
QUOTE(bluesdealer @ Dec 12 2005, 04:38 AM)
Once again, the conservative ideology is about less government control and more personal freedom.
con·ser·va·tive Audio pronunciation of "conservative" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
*cough* moderate, cautious, traditional values and views, restrained *cough* where does personal freedom fit in? Liberalism in its simplest definition means open minded (you can bring up a definition if you want, but I thought itd be pointless). If conservatives are on the opposite end of the spectrum, wouldnt that make them close minded? Dont be an idiot; censorship takes place on both ends of our two-party political spectrum. However, despite the actions of some politicians, I would consider gaming censorship a form of caution and restrain in order to impose traditional (usually Christian in our case) values, and therefore conservative regardless of political parties and their views.
That being said, this is obviously not a battle strictly fought between political parties. Nine out of ten ex-coke addicts are also against bans on games, but we dont associate the president with that group.
Post by: hippo on December 12, 2005, 11:41:00 AM
Half the marriages end in divorce meaning half the boys growing up have no adult male in the house. You can see this for yourself when your son's friends try to bond with you when they come over to play if you are a male adult. They have no male adult male and trust me they are looking to latch on any male figure they can find. This is the way it appears to me anyway. I hope it's not YOUR son living with your ex wife that's bonding with the male characters from GTA.
When you watch a movie you aren't required to make any adult decisions they've already been made and you can't change anything.
You can have your 7 year old son playing Madden or GTA what's it going to be? Because I've seen 100 7 year olds playin GTA. There shouldn't have to be such a wide range of material available to have a comlete market.
You want freedom of speech? I'll give you some right here. If your an adult and you play GTA and you feel it is meritable and enriches your life you are a fucking idiot. That's freedom of the press.
Post by: downlowfunk on December 12, 2005, 05:39:00 PM
Post by: jesterrace777 on December 12, 2005, 06:34:00 PM
Post by: itzkid on December 12, 2005, 07:01:00 PM
QUOTE(hippo @ Dec 12 2005, 07:48 PM)
When we were feeding our kids Disney we never had incidents like Columbine High EVER. GTA is Howard Stern material marketed for children. Freedom of the press was designed for adults. That game is so morally offensive across the board it deserves to be banned.
Half the marriages end in divorce meaning half the boys growing up have no adult male in the house. You can see this for yourself when your son's friends try to bond with you when they come over to play if you are a male adult. They have no male adult male and trust me they are looking to latch on any male figure they can find. This is the way it appears to me anyway. I hope it's not YOUR son living with your ex wife that's bonding with the male characters from GTA.
When you watch a movie you aren't required to make any adult decisions they've already been made and you can't change anything.
You can have your 7 year old son playing Madden or GTA what's it going to be? Because I've seen 100 7 year olds playin GTA. There shouldn't have to be such a wide range of material available to have a comlete market.
You want freedom of speech? I'll give you some right here. If your an adult and you play GTA and you feel it is meritable and enriches your life you are a fucking idiot. That's freedom of the press.
You know I can't even say I respect your stance, because you typed straight idiocy.
How can you possibly believe a video game is what caused the columbine tragedy. I mean if that's the case then your arguing the kids were properly raised and still made the choice to copy a video game. But now logic tells us if the kids were raised properly there's no way they'd do something like that. Right? think about it long and hard now.
Or look for something to blame god forbid anyone takes responsibility for themselves nowadays, video games that must be it, or howard stern, or jackass the series, or marylin manson, personally i think primetime news is a good choice there's where i see the most violence on tv ... what's that rated by the way? it's not?! ... sneaky bastards.
and yeah these poor kids latching onto any male figure they can find. we should ban video games because of that, why goto the root of the problem and try to figure out why this kid has no father figure in the first place, screw it sew a patch on, have a cup of scotch, rub one out and call it a night.
Problem:
2 parents working full time -> Kids learn from day care and gain too much freedom too early -> kids have kids and try to raise them as single parents -> rinse repeat and lets see how fucked up our society can get before we fix the actual problem, how many patches can this old pair of jeans really take, especially when they're being sewn on by ignorant fucking morons who roam the earth like a horse with blinders
QUOTE(peteer01 @ Dec 13 2005, 02:57 AM)
Here's a question, how many of you would have a problem with GTA if you could kill children?
How many of you would have a problem with GTA if you had to kill children?
How many of you would have a problem with GTA if you could rape women?
How many of you would have a problem with GTA if you had to rape women?
Hell, if you're still not offended, how many of you would have a problem with GTA if you could rape children?
The point is, there is a limit. There needs to be a limit. Why is it okay to have a game that you probably can't beat without killing police officers, and yet it would not be legal to publish a game that included most of the scenarios above?
The argument of "first amendment rights" and "freedom" are great when you enjoy the game...at what point are you willing to say there needs to be a limit? Should a game with all of the above be allowed because of the first amendment? You're not really killing children, and you're not really raping women...just like you're not really killing police officers.
This is a far more extreme example than I would normally post, but the more subdued comments are very much drowned out by the people defending GTA.
FWIW, I think GTA games are fun, and I think they should be sold as AO. At what point is fornication less acceptable than killing police officers?
Just my $.02.
the problem with that is how many people would buy the game if it had those things in it (most of them anyways?) without a market to sell to there's no game right? and the fcc can regulate it if they see fit which in those cases i'm sure they would, and i also agree there is a line but i don't think we've encountered a game that crosses it yet, gta might come relatively close. by the way how many kids have killed cops since the gta release, do we really think that's the problem.
regardless though, even if a game did contain the scenarios you posted, how many of those do you think would be copied because of the game itself? or would we suddenly just start blaming child molestation on video games now too?
Post by: peteer01 on December 12, 2005, 07:34:00 PM
QUOTE(itzkid @ Dec 13 2005, 11:08 AM)
i don't think we've encountered a game that crosses it yet, gta might come relatively close. by the way how many kids have killed cops since the gta release, do we really think that's the problem.
QUOTE(itzkid @ Dec 13 2005, 11:08 AM)
regardless though, even if a game did contain the scenarios you posted, how many of those do you think would be copied because of the game itself? or would we suddenly just start blaming child molestation on video games now too?
Of course not. Violence crime rates are the lowest they've ever been:http://www.ojp.usdoj...lance/viort.htm
Saying it's common for people to reenact the exact same behavior that they see in videogames is a fallacy. Saying that exposing children/minors to inappropriate material excessively has an adverse affect on their development...that's another argument all together.
Post by: bluesdealer on December 13, 2005, 11:21:00 AM
QUOTE(cRACKmONKEY421 @ Dec 12 2005, 11:36 AM)
con·ser·va·tive Audio pronunciation of "conservative" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
*cough* moderate, cautious, traditional values and views, restrained *cough* where does personal freedom fit in? Liberalism in its simplest definition means open minded (you can bring up a definition if you want, but I thought itd be pointless). If conservatives are on the opposite end of the spectrum, wouldnt that make them close minded? Dont be an idiot; censorship takes place on both ends of our two-party political spectrum. However, despite the actions of some politicians, I would consider gaming censorship a form of caution and restrain in order to impose traditional (usually Christian in our case) values, and therefore conservative regardless of political parties and their views.
That being said, this is obviously not a battle strictly fought between political parties. Nine out of ten ex-coke addicts are also against bans on games, but we dont associate the president with that group.
You're talking about dictionary definitions and not political ideologies. I'm a strong Christian and I generally do favor traditional views in the areas of foreign policy and not taking unnecessary economic risks. Basically, a conservative says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." (unless it is, indeed, broken) I know censorship occurs in both political parties. Republicans tend to be anti-porn, even though i disagree with censorship in any form (gaming, porn, books, whatever). Though, many democrats including Hilary Clinton have had anti-porn crusades as well I know that anti-gaming mentallies can be found in both (John Ashcroft, for example, but don't call the Governator a conservative, he's not). I was responding to the earlier post who blamed game censorship on "rightwing nutjobs," when in fact, it's mostly the other way around. My definition of political conservativism is backed up by any school government class. Conservatives like small government, liberals like big government. It's not a revolutionary definition.
Post by: Syberistic on December 15, 2005, 01:47:00 PM
Post by: Radu on December 30, 2005, 01:54:00 AM
is there any information about the next gta?!!!!
Post by: S.E. Nova on May 02, 2006, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: bumr055 on August 24, 2006, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: trilobyte man on November 30, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
Post by: chorizo1 on November 30, 2006, 08:31:00 PM
Post by: turkeyman8800 on August 09, 2009, 12:25:00 AM
. i play gta and i dont wake up and carjack people then shoot police and ive played all gta games from gta 1 to gta iv anyway only an idiot would take gta as an reason for a violent crime.should we ban the internet,tv, most music and 12+ games i mean a 5 year old could play ace combat six and it has "bad words" in it.the idea of banning gta is stupid if u think about it 
any way a well brought up kid can play gta safely if an adult is with them and they are on 2 player.i play it sometimes with my 9 year old sister and she never swears or anything. 
