Post by: Xbox-Scene on November 04, 2010, 10:24:00 PM
Open Kinect Project: 2000USD Bounty for Open-Source Kinect Drivers Posted by XanTium | November 5 00:24 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| Adafruit Industries - a NYC based company that sells kits and parts for original, open source hardware electronics projects - is offering a 2000 USD cash prize for whoever is first to release an open-source PC driver for the Kinect: Quote
CNet already has a response from Microsoft and they love the idea... Oh, wait, no... Actually: Quote
Official Site: adafruit.com |
Post by: Pseudo99 on November 04, 2010, 10:29:00 PM
Post by: amak1131 on November 04, 2010, 10:45:00 PM
Post by: bengrimsy on November 04, 2010, 10:49:00 PM
wtf m$..... it's not hard to read between to see the lines here. There is rumors of m$ releasing devices like this for PC in the not too distant future..... that is why they wont let this happen. We will have to buy two products instead of one. It's sad because it can easily be used on either platform, or any platform for that matter, but that would be too convenient for the consumers.
(edit) PS....I wish i had $2000 to give, because i would happily do so. Good luck people!
This post has been edited by bengrimsy: Nov 5 2010, 05:53 AM
Post by: colt45joe on November 04, 2010, 10:58:00 PM
Post by: bengrimsy on November 04, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
QUOTE(amak1131 @ Nov 4 2010, 10:45 PM) 
Making drivers doesn't modify the hardware... so M$ really has nothing they can use for any possible case.
Drivers use their product in a way it wasnt intended for and they put in security measures to stop it. Yeah these drivers will not be legal, and m$ will have a case. We may have to even do a hardware mod to pull this off.
Post by: majinsoftware on November 04, 2010, 11:32:00 PM
But good luck to every one who attempts it, Id defantly buy a kinnect if there were open source drivers since theres a project iv been wanting to work on that requires such a device.
Post by: Aldanga on November 04, 2010, 11:50:00 PM
QUOTE(bengrimsy @ Nov 5 2010, 12:05 AM)
Drivers use their product in a way it wasnt intended for and they put in security measures to stop it. Yeah these drivers will not be legal, and m$ will have a case. We may have to even do a hardware mod to pull this off.
I cannot see how writing independent drivers for a piece of hardware in order that it might communicate with another piece of hardware does, in any way, break the law. One is not modifying any code Microsoft sets forth, but rather starting from scratch. Preventing such things would be in violation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Post by: amak1131 on November 04, 2010, 11:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 4 2010, 10:50 PM) 
I cannot see how writing independent drivers for a piece of hardware in order that it might communicate with another piece of hardware does, in any way, break the law. One is not modifying any code Microsoft sets forth, but rather starting from scratch. Preventing such things would be in violation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Dunno about the Amendment part, but the rest seems right. No copyrighted code is being used, the product itself is not being touched. All it would do is maybe void your warranty at most.
Post by: kingdt on November 05, 2010, 02:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 5 2010, 06:50 AM)
Preventing such things would be in violation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
We don't all live in America so not sure if that matters. If it did then i'd buy all the weed i could coz it's legal in Amsterdam
Post by: RoCkP on November 05, 2010, 03:55:00 AM
Post by: Bad_Ad on November 05, 2010, 03:56:00 AM
Its designed to be connected via USB, someone writing drivers for it is just business as usual.
If you didnt want people to connect it to their PC, dont use USB.
Also, this is a prime case of "ive bought it, i can do what I want". I believe this about consoles, but they pull the "copyright infringement" case, which I can understand and they vaguely have a point.
In this case tho, you bought the hardware, any modification doesnt cause you to play games for free etc, so theres clearly no case.
This post has been edited by Bad_Ad: Nov 5 2010, 10:59 AM
Post by: swaneejuggalo on November 05, 2010, 05:06:00 AM
Why is 2grand a joke? I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like a extra 2K and if they decide to put more spare time forward to get it than so be it. Considering all the things coders in the scene do for nothing I think 2K would be welcomed.
Post by: bmwbmwbmw on November 05, 2010, 05:07:00 AM
Post by: Bad_Ad on November 05, 2010, 06:08:00 AM
QUOTE(bmwbmwbmw @ Nov 5 2010, 12:07 PM)
Are people so dense that they don't recognize standard legalese? The guy's obviously a talking head spouting off about something he's completely clueless about. All he's paid to do is protect MS's interests, whether he knows what he's doing or not is an entirely different matter. He probably doesn't even know what a driver is.
Nope, completely realise what it is.
However, this is a forum which is for discussion.
Post by: newf on November 05, 2010, 06:43:00 AM
QUOTE(readmore @ Nov 5 2010, 08:53 AM)
I would bet money (if I had any) that tons of people will find ways to make Kinnect work with PC with less lag then the 360, and that my friends is why MS is being a big baby.
Seriously I don't know what's with MS these days. Poor quality design, poor quality QA, poor quality programming, and poor quality game Devs. Not to mention stubborn upper management/directors. Whoever in MS has this motion control boner needs to be sacked. No wonder Apple runs circles around them in terms of quality (minus the ipone 4 antenna snafu). If something doesn't work then just scrap it or delay it so you have a quality product. I mean I'm just a regular guy and I know that, so who the heck is running that company???
I think MS needs to clean house. People working for MS probably treat their jobs like government workers; full of self-entitlement and think they can ride on a blank check. It is showing in their products.
I really hope the community of modders/hackers grab hold of this and shove it in MS's face.
/end bitter rant
//still can't believe MS is selling Kinnect as a piece of gaming hardware
I tend to agree. I've prettty much used MS products my entire 35 years of computing, professionally and personally. I've even defended them in many situations over a lnux or unix product. But over the past 10 years they have completely lost their minds, shabby products, price gouging etc. I get they need to make money like any company but it's gotten to the point of pathetic, really pathetic.
I have ZERO use or want for a Kinect unit for my xbox. I already got a Wii that collects dust now.
However, I'll just say this - Kinect + XBMC
I'm am sure MS is thinking Kinect + Media Center, but media center is horrible, poorly designed piece of $%@#$%@%. It amazes to this day how a huge company with the software engineers they have, and the hardware already in peoples living rooms, that they can not do a better media center.
Post by: Tatsh on November 05, 2010, 07:29:00 AM
QUOTE(newf @ Nov 5 2010, 08:43 AM)
I tend to agree. I've prettty much used MS products my entire 35 years of computing, professionally and personally. I've even defended them in many situations over a lnux or unix product. But over the past 10 years they have completely lost their minds, shabby products, price gouging etc. I get they need to make money like any company but it's gotten to the point of pathetic, really pathetic.
I have ZERO use or want for a Kinect unit for my xbox. I already got a Wii that collects dust now.
However, I'll just say this - Kinect + XBMC
I'm am sure MS is thinking Kinect + Media Center, but media center is horrible, poorly designed piece of $%@#$%@%. It amazes to this day how a huge company with the software engineers they have, and the hardware already in peoples living rooms, that they can not do a better media center.
Don't know why MS thinks 360 + streaming over internet/your computer but ONLY with Windows media center (technically) + DVD = media center. How about adding some more formats in the nth update (preferably MKV, support for 5.1 AAC in MP4)? I know MS wants total control, they lost the HD-DVD format war in which they had investments in, refuse to do anything related with Blu-ray, and as far as a web browser on 360 you know they'd only give us a piece of crap IE derivative.
In terms of game quality, developers STILL feel no incentive because they get paid nothing in comparison to the publishers and retail stores. Out of that $60 you spend, $8-12 will go to the developer company. But more will go to both the retailer and publisher.
Post by: Martinchris23 on November 05, 2010, 07:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Tatsh @ Nov 5 2010, 01:29 PM)
How about adding some more formats in the nth update (preferably MKV, support for 5.1 AAC in MP4)?
Playing Devil's Advocate, where are you legally downloading MKV's from? If you're authoring them, why not choose a compatible codec (such as WMV)?
Post by: readmore on November 05, 2010, 08:04:00 AM
QUOTE(BruinsFan @ Nov 5 2010, 02:47 PM)
What is the big fuss about getting Kinect to work on the PC?
It's a web cam that also has infrared. Buying a webcam that has night vision would be very similar.
At one point, there were hardware chips which did most of the calculations on Natal. Since then, MS decided to cut costs and make the processing on the software side, rendering the Kinect hardware nothing more than a camera with infrared.
Am I missing something?
I'm not a hardware or software guy but I think Kinnect does more then just Cam with infrared. There was a video on the site in an earlier article that showed the million points of light Kinnect uses to read it's surroundings so there must be more going on there. I know MS opted to do most of the processing though the Xbox but the hardware is still in the device; it's just that it's all software driven I think.
confusing.....
Post by: ddxcb on November 05, 2010, 08:07:00 AM
Post by: megaman007 on November 05, 2010, 08:19:00 AM
Post by: iateshaggy on November 05, 2010, 08:30:00 AM
Post by: DARKFiB3R on November 05, 2010, 09:36:00 AM
Post by: iwanttheagrocrag on November 05, 2010, 09:36:00 AM
QUOTE
"Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant.”
I give it a week before its got an open source driver!!! probably less
Post by: BruinsFan on November 05, 2010, 10:25:00 AM
QUOTE(readmore @ Nov 5 2010, 10:04 AM)
There was a video on the site in an earlier article that showed the million points of light Kinnect uses to read it's surroundings so there must be more going on there.
Hmmm.... maybe there is an on-board chip that translates the million points of light into meaningful data?
QUOTE(gamesquest1 @ Nov 5 2010, 11:40 AM)
ok nice idea but as someone else stated the kinect device atually doesnt do any of the processing any more so any software would have to be doing all the processing of the infrared lights, im not saying its not possible just that if MS hadnt of removed the exra processing unit out of the beta kenects it would be a driver and basic software, right now its probably gonna take a lot of effort making the software to go along side the driver
expect a driver very soon, but no actual functionality for quite a while....except a webcam....a big fat webcam XD
Exactly, if someone was to start a project around similar functionality to Kinect's software, why would they use the Kinect hardware? It would be much easier to develop on an open platform with a custom setup of a webcam and infrared reader. Only once that is completed, maybe look into getting it to work with Kinect's hardware.
TBH, it seems like a waste of time to even bother.
Post by: Tatsh on November 05, 2010, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: Exobex on November 05, 2010, 11:04:00 AM
Otherwise, what's the problem? If someone turns Kinect into a multitouch input device, that'll in turn sell more multitouch-compatible operating systems. Such as Windows 7.
Post by: Exobex on November 05, 2010, 11:04:00 AM
Otherwise, what's the problem? If someone turns Kinect into a multitouch input device, that'll in turn sell more multitouch-compatible operating systems. Such as Windows 7.
Post by: Aldanga on November 05, 2010, 11:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 5 2010, 08:44 AM)
Playing Devil's Advocate, where are you legally downloading MKV's from? If you're authoring them, why not choose a compatible codec (such as WMV)?
Don't you ever get tired of playing devil's advocate?
For me, I just like the freedom that comes from removing myself from private companies' control as much as possible. I put all of my Blu-Rays and DVDs into MKV containers to stream through my Popcorn Hour. Of course, some use VC-1 and other proprietary codecs, but using MKV containers frees me to do a lot on my own.
QUOTE(Exobex @ Nov 5 2010, 12:04 PM)
Perhaps they're afraid that if people dig into it enough they'll not only make a homebrew driver that's compatible with Kinect, but do the reverse - make a homebrew Kinect that's compatible with the 360!
Otherwise, what's the problem? If someone turns Kinect into a multitouch input device, that'll in turn sell more multitouch-compatible operating systems. Such as Windows 7.
Otherwise, what's the problem? If someone turns Kinect into a multitouch input device, that'll in turn sell more multitouch-compatible operating systems. Such as Windows 7.
Kinect isn't multitouch. It's a camera, not a touch device. To turn Kinect into a multitouch device one would need to make it a screen itself--and that wouldn't make a lot of sense.
Post by: mr.yoda on November 05, 2010, 02:04:00 PM
Post by: xboxmods2977 on November 05, 2010, 02:35:00 PM
On the legality issue for the driver. M$ hates open source (freedom) more than anything. That said. The Kinect device will most likely contain some sort of firmware/bios, which will be "M$ copyrighted code". If an open source driver is written, M$ could, with the right lawyers, claim improper use of said code, or even more so (but a much further stretch), copyright infringement, in simply using the device on a PC because a PC could be used to easily dump said code and we all know why that is bad (for M$
). Not to mention, the driver would cut into M$ profits if (when) they release a similar device for Windows (why buy it when you have the Kinect with a windows driver?). The list of propagandized possibilities goes on and on. Look for big problems from M$ here.
Post by: lvader1 on November 05, 2010, 03:28:00 PM
QUOTE
Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant.
Law enforcement? lol what a scare tactic..
FU M$
I hope somebody hacks it by the weekend.
Post by: bengrimsy on November 05, 2010, 05:51:00 PM
Post by: xboxjason on November 05, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
QUOTE(bengrimsy @ Nov 6 2010, 12:51 AM)
All of those who think its legal to make these drivers dont know what they are talking about.
QUOTE(bengrimsy @ Nov 6 2010, 12:51 AM)
Its possible the actual driver itself will be legal
Post by: symbal on November 05, 2010, 07:18:00 PM
Post by: Exobex on November 06, 2010, 04:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Aldanga @ Nov 5 2010, 06:29 PM)
Kinect isn't multitouch. It's a camera, not a touch device. To turn Kinect into a multitouch device one would need to make it a screen itself--and that wouldn't make a lot of sense.
Minority Report?
QUOTE(symbal @ Nov 6 2010, 02:18 AM)
As soon as anyone takes payment for a driver M$ is gonna run them over with a truck load of lawyers, even if there's no law being broken you just know MS is gonna try to scare the crap out of anyone else thinking about doing it, but honestly i just don't care just as long as the driver makes it out into the wild i might consider buying one, because i still see no future for the thing on 360.
Yep. Once it's on the Internet, it'll never come back off. Same as a few years ago when the software came out to convert the Ricoh 7040 quad-speed burner (plus all of its rebranded variants) into the $100-dearer six-speed Ricoh 7060. Ricoh kicked off, but too late.
Post by: Aldanga on November 06, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
QUOTE(Exobex @ Nov 6 2010, 05:29 AM)
Minority Report?
Hah. Yeah, but still not technically multitouch as you're not touching anything. /anally technical
Post by: nexxusty on November 07, 2010, 01:45:00 AM
QUOTE(bengrimsy @ Nov 5 2010, 07:51 PM)
All of those who think its legal to make these drivers dont know what they are talking about. Firmware on the device make it only able to be used on xbox 360s. To use it on a pc we will have to either modify the kinect's firmware, or somehow spoof a pc to show up as a 360 to a USB device, both of which will be illegal. Its possible the actual driver itself will be legal, but the way to implement it will require you to do something illegal.
Jesus dude, stfu.
I can't handle imbeciles like you at all. You are soooooooooo uninformed.
Please stop talking. You actually made me less intelligent by reading your post.
Post by: p4r0l3 on November 08, 2010, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: liamb2010 on November 08, 2010, 02:18:00 PM
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