Post by: Xbox-Scene on September 03, 2009, 05:59:00 PM
Major Nelson Tweets About Halo ODST Bans *Update: MS Detects Copies?* Posted by XanTium | September 3 19:59 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From Major Nelson's Twitter (via team-xecuter.com): Quote
*Update* Seems like Microsoft claims they can detect illegitimate copies. Xbox Live Chief of Police Stephen Toulouse told kotaku.com: Quote
|
Post by: InfernO8 on September 03, 2009, 06:01:00 PM
Post by: Dietrich on September 03, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: leorimolo on September 03, 2009, 06:21:00 PM
QUOTE(InfernO8 @ Sep 3 2009, 06:01 PM) 
Remember back when playing games was about
Fixed it.
Post by: Ranger72 on September 03, 2009, 06:26:00 PM
Don't want to get banned? Buy your own damn games when they come out in the store and rip them yourself.
Post by: DARKFiB3R on September 03, 2009, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: Geen Rommel on September 03, 2009, 06:48:00 PM
QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ Sep 4 2009, 01:59 AM) 
Seems like Microsoft claims they can detect illegitimate copies.
Especially when those games are dumped by a p2p group.
Why is the xbox the only console with ppl being banned?
This post has been edited by Geen Rommel: Sep 4 2009, 01:53 AM
Post by: red_ring_of_box on September 03, 2009, 06:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Geen Rommel @ Sep 3 2009, 08:48 PM)
Why is the xbox the only console with ppl being banned?
no people have been getting their wii consoles banned from playing modified games online as well such as mario cart for one ex. The xbox just is more main stream to bannings because more idiots dl pirated copies of games and playing them on live before the game is actually released that and bad backups
.EDIT: I just had to add this in cause I don't want to double post but wtf:
QUOTE
Xbox Live Chief of Police Stephen Toulouse told kotaku.com:
Wtf M$ also has their own police force? Wow what money can buy.
Post by: eeboarder1984 on September 03, 2009, 06:58:00 PM
Think it would be okay to play it, and just not go on Live until it is released?
QUOTE(Geen Rommel @ Sep 4 2009, 01:48 AM)
Especially when those games are dumped by a p2p group.
Why is the xbox the only console with ppl being banned?
Wow. This dude looks like a tool.
http://www.stepto.com/default.aspx
Post by: wulfie on September 03, 2009, 07:12:00 PM
QUOTE(eeboarder1984 @ Sep 3 2009, 08:58 PM)
I still haven't gone through with the last update.
Think it would be okay to play it, and just not go on Live until it is released?
Wow. This dude looks like a tool.
http://www.stepto.com/default.aspx
Even playing offline can get your 360 banned since it logs everything, even offline play.
Post by: rastaman108037 on September 03, 2009, 07:16:00 PM
The copy has french audio but English subtitles. Modders should not be afraid; we always knew unstealthed games lead to bans.
I haven't tried it, nor do I want to.
This post has been edited by Reaper527: Sep 4 2009, 03:32 AM
Post by: postal worker on September 03, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
QUOTE(wulfie @ Sep 3 2009, 08:12 PM)
Even playing offline can get your 360 banned since it logs everything, even offline play.
talk about a trojan horse type of deal :x i watch you even when not connected and when you do...boom i know your gaming life story. :x
Post by: Geen Rommel on September 03, 2009, 07:19:00 PM
QUOTE(eeboarder1984 @ Sep 4 2009, 02:58 AM)
I still haven't gone through with the last update.
Think it would be okay to play it, and just not go on Live until it is released?
Why would you want to play an undersized non-stealth pre-release copy with French audio and English subtitles?
Post by: Mr_Milenko on September 03, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
Post by: swuu on September 03, 2009, 07:40:00 PM
QUOTE(Geen Rommel @ Sep 4 2009, 02:19 AM)
Why would you want to play an undersized non-stealth pre-release copy with French audio and English subtitles?
ROFL...
Post by: kingatrock on September 03, 2009, 07:41:00 PM
Post by: Ranger72 on September 03, 2009, 07:43:00 PM
QUOTE(DARKFiB3R @ Sep 3 2009, 08:45 PM)
Oh shut up Ranger72. I don't know how much money you've made from modding consoles, but who do you think most (if not all) of your customers are?
You seem to have a pretty low standard to what you believe is the moral level of the general population.
Just because someone buys a car that can go 150mph does not mean we have roads full of idiots that drive 150mph.
Post by: Norco on September 03, 2009, 08:04:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 4 2009, 02:43 AM)
You seem to have a pretty low standard to what you believe is the moral level of the general population.
Just because someone buys a car that can go 150mph does not mean we have roads full of idiots that drive 150mph.
That or you've overestimated the morals of the general population. It's OK, you've got a biz and you've gotta cover your @$$, we understand.
This post has been edited by Norco: Sep 4 2009, 03:06 AM
Post by: Reaper527 on September 03, 2009, 08:34:00 PM
on topic, it is interesting that microsoft is claiming the ability to detect illegitimate copies. one would have to wonder if there will be a lot of pissed off members in the near future, or if he is simply referring to the fact that game data is missing, (this is a fact, i have seen an abgx screenshot that shows it as an undersized iso), and this can be detected since it is different from the retail disc. (much like the reviewer copies of certain games that resulted in a ban wave previously)
just a 2nd reminder to everyone:
we don't care what you do outside of here, but here, you will NOT be asking for pirated games here, telling people where to get them, or naming releases, or you will find yourself on a temporary or permanent vacation.
This post has been edited by Reaper527: Sep 4 2009, 03:40 AM
Post by: rastaman108037 on September 03, 2009, 08:44:00 PM
QUOTE(kingatrock @ Sep 3 2009, 09:41 PM)
They say they can detect copies of that game specifically being played early (even if its a legit disc). I take it as they're doing what they did with the crackdown/halo3 beta, just putting some bait out and waiting for the fish to bite. They can't detect anything more than that.
They don't ban solely because of playing a game before release. While they can tell it has been played ahead of time, they have no way of knowing who *legitimately* has the game before release. Vendors, devs, etc all get the games ahead of time. *Someone* leaks them to the interwebs.
In this case it's a bad stealth. Plain and simple.
From reliable sources I'm told ODST has very few differences from the original Halo 3. I'm told it blows.
@reaper - Is what I'm saying a violation? I'm not naming releases, just explaining why the bans are rolled out.
This post has been edited by rastaman108037: Sep 4 2009, 03:45 AM
Post by: Reaper527 on September 03, 2009, 08:50:00 PM
QUOTE(rastaman108037 @ Sep 3 2009, 10:44 PM)
@reaper - Is what I'm saying a violation? I'm not naming releases, just explaining why the bans are rolled out.
i just cleaned up a few minor details. nothing major. you were pretty good about keeping it within what is allowed
Post by: majinsoftware on September 03, 2009, 08:55:00 PM
Post by: virux on September 03, 2009, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: Poopmonkey on September 03, 2009, 09:10:00 PM
QUOTE(virux @ Sep 3 2009, 10:59 PM)
actually... If your listen to the Major Nelson Podcast one of the co-host accidentally spilled the beans how they could find out. basically it depends in what region you are in and if your playing that game and they know they sent a shipment around that area then they know you bought a legitimate copy. if your like in USA and they shipped the game in France then they know something is not right. anyways that's more or less what she said.
It's not like a game from France will even work on a US 360 console due to region codes. Anyways, I think thats bull because I can go ahead a buy a US retail game on ebay that was bought on the other coast than me and I get banned because I didn't buy it in my region? Since when do we have to buy games from our state or our city?!?! I think you got your facts crossed.
Post by: knodi on September 03, 2009, 09:24:00 PM
QUOTE(majinsoftware @ Sep 4 2009, 03:55 AM)
I heard each Halo ODST disks have a unique id on it. So if the same id is online on more then 1 console at a time every one who ever uses that id gets banned. No problem here tho for me, all my games are legit and only have a single backup that only I use myself.
This is not the case manufacturing processes do not allow for this.
Post by: majinsoftware on September 03, 2009, 09:26:00 PM
Or you brought the game and got it posted over to you.
Or if you just moved from French land. And brought the game on the same day you moved.
Or if your in France and have a imported console.
Using the region to detect people wont work theres just to many variables.
Hell you could just change your keyvault to a fake ones to play the game.
QUOTE(knodi @ Sep 4 2009, 05:24 AM)
This is not the case manufacturing processes do not allow for this.
Not on the final retails. Because it would cost heaps making millions of different stamps.
But on the pre-release each ones meant to be unique.
Post by: Reaper527 on September 03, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
QUOTE(majinsoftware @ Sep 3 2009, 11:26 PM)
Not on the final retails. Because it would cost heaps making millions of different stamps.
But on the pre-release each ones meant to be unique.
isn't this article about a final disc that was going to stores to sit on a shelf in a back room until launch date?
on the topic of figuring out who is legit based on region, that isn't possible. as others have said, its a disc. its a physical item. if someone has a retail disc that bought at a store, it can be shipped internationally and end up anywhere in the world.
Post by: tomgreen99200 on September 03, 2009, 09:41:00 PM
Post by: plutostar on September 03, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
Post by: mist4fun on September 03, 2009, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: virux on September 03, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
QUOTE(Poopmonkey @ Sep 4 2009, 04:10 AM)
It's not like a game from France will even work on a US 360 console due to region codes. Anyways, I think thats bull because I can go ahead a buy a US retail game on ebay that was bought on the other coast than me and I get banned because I didn't buy it in my region? Since when do we have to buy games from our state or our city?!?! I think you got your facts crossed.
Region Free games... Anyways thats beside the point they didn't they used this method for all games they're using it for HALO ODST so you buying a US Retail of ODST right now and play it = Unlikely. The whole point is if your in a certain region where they have shipped the game to and you manage to buy a copy and they see that your in that region your fine. It's most likely you bought it legitimately. If your in town C but only town B has it and town C is nowhere near a place that could get it now that's something fishy. Just listen to the New Podcast it's like 20 - 30 mins in when they introduce @Stepto.
Post by: ampedXR on September 03, 2009, 10:48:00 PM
Why do some people talk when they have absolutely no clue what they are saying?
Post by: psxcite on September 03, 2009, 11:31:00 PM
QUOTE(ampedXR @ Sep 3 2009, 11:48 PM)
nearly 4 years into the 360 scene and the noobs that keep showing up and posting still never fail to amuse me.
Why do some people talk when they have absolutely no clue what they are saying?
Can I get an amen?
Post by: stormz on September 03, 2009, 11:33:00 PM
QUOTE(majinsoftware @ Sep 4 2009, 03:55 AM)
I heard each Halo ODST disks have a unique id on it. So if the same id is online on more then 1 console at a time every one who ever uses that id gets banned. No problem here tho for me, all my games are legit and only have a single backup that only I use myself.
ive often thought they could do that. although i doubt they would ban people if only 2 or 3 copies of the same game went online. after all i have a friend who buys games, copies them and then sells the original on ebay. i think its only when the copy get uploaded to the internet and you have 100s of people playing the same copy
Post by: majinsoftware on September 04, 2009, 12:19:00 AM
QUOTE(stormz @ Sep 4 2009, 07:33 AM)
ive often thought they could do that. although i doubt they would ban people if only 2 or 3 copies of the same game went online. after all i have a friend who buys games, copies them and then sells the original on ebay. i think its only when the copy get uploaded to the internet and you have 100s of people playing the same copy
Retail games your cant because it would cost to much, They are made with a master stamp that doesn't change. But with some test/review/pre-release games they have a few different stamps for each tester so they can identify who leaks them.
But the main question is, Is the leaked version on the net a final retail (which has all version the same) or is a special one (being French only language instead of multi leads to it being more a special identifiable version)
But only MS knows for sure at this time. But IMO why risk it, Just do what I have and pre-order it.
Post by: Libtoem on September 04, 2009, 12:45:00 AM
QUOTE(majinsoftware @ Sep 4 2009, 08:19 AM)
Retail games your cant because it would cost to much, They are made with a master stamp that doesn't change. But with some test/review/pre-release games they have a few different stamps for each tester so they can identify who leaks them.
But the main question is, Is the leaked version on the net a final retail (which has all version the same) or is a special one (being French only language instead of multi leads to it being more a special identifiable version)
But only MS knows for sure at this time. But IMO why risk it, Just do what I have and pre-order it.
Yes,when a game is final its ready to be shipped out.If it was not a final retail it would be a debug/review version and would not play on a retail kit.
Post by: Hellzone on September 04, 2009, 12:47:00 AM
QUOTE(Libtoem @ Sep 4 2009, 08:45 AM)
Yes,when a game is final its ready to be shipped out.If it was not a final retail it would be a debug/review version and would not play on a retail kit.
wait a tick that gave me a great idea !Post by: ZakMcRofl on September 04, 2009, 01:25:00 AM
Of course they claim that they will catch each and every pirate. But obviously they can only detect it as long as people play unverified, in this case clearly flawed copies.
All other explanations I've read so far (UniqueID on a pressed disk, ban by distance from leak) are ridiculous, baseless and against all logic.
Post by: jkoz on September 04, 2009, 01:27:00 AM
Post by: Intersect on September 04, 2009, 01:40:00 AM
This post has been edited by Intersect: Sep 4 2009, 08:41 AM
Post by: ej2095+1 on September 04, 2009, 02:14:00 AM
With regards to playing the game early.. if memory serves me right when you dissconect teh 360 from mains teh xbox looses the time and date (Stupid console)
It only regains this if you connect to live or set it your self...
So if you play a game early and the xbox does indeed store the time and date of teh game u played it wil store the date it thinks it is.
Hence once the game has been released you might be safe in playing this online (It might wonder though how the hell u completed the game on relase day!)
Also sure Halo 3 got leaked by Argos here in the uk when that first came out...
Ha i was right "http://www.reghardwa...halo3_release/"
The burks lol
Post by: virux on September 04, 2009, 02:25:00 AM
2Hrs 05Mins In The Conversation They Talk About Halo ODST and the banning...
Post by: d-range on September 04, 2009, 02:28:00 AM
QUOTE(Intersect @ Sep 4 2009, 08:40 AM)
If they implement their security right, they can detect any backup at any time regardless of "stealth" or not. Microsoft are not stupid, they can run any code to check anything they want at any time. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't looked at the code.
The problem with that theory is that while they might be able to detect discrepancies that could be a sign of a modded console or a backup disc, they cannot act on it unless they're 100% sure the box is really hacked. The negative publicity they'd get when they started banning legit boxes is much more harmful than the piracy itself.
Also, I think you're underestimating the people involved in hacking all these different drives, they actually *can* see the (disassembled) code in the drive firmware. It's very unlikely Microsoft is able to extract and verify the dvd firmware for all drive types, and all other known tricks to find out if someone tempered with it or the challenges used to detect a copied disc in the tray should be covered by the hacked firmware.
That said, a bad disc that is obviously not identical to the retail disc because there's stuff missing or incorrect, that's really easy to detect by simple inspection of the DVD layout, security sectors and checksums. It's much more likely Microsoft does extra checking on the ODST disc, especially if you go online with it, and maybe even planted the ISO as a bait, than that they suddenly introduced some fail-safe way of identifying a hacked console or copied disc.
Post by: ZakMcRofl on September 04, 2009, 02:56:00 AM
QUOTE(Intersect @ Sep 4 2009, 09:40 AM)
If they implement their security right, they can detect any backup at any time regardless of "stealth" or not. Microsoft are not stupid, they can run any code to check anything they want at any time. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't looked at the code.
And what code have you looked at? Drive firmware? Please enlighten us how Microsoft is supposed to detect a backup when the drive firmware is compromised and a black box to the 360.
If you know specific drive commands that Microsoft could use to detect backups, please share them and notify C4Eva. However I highly doubt that you do.
If you're the Intersect from xboxhacker I have to say I am very surprised by your lack of competence in this regard. Proper backups are undetectable given the right drive firmware.
Post by: dangerpaki on September 04, 2009, 03:07:00 AM
QUOTE(kingatrock @ Sep 4 2009, 03:41 AM)
They say they can detect copies of that game specifically being played early (even if its a legit disc). I take it as they're doing what they did with the crackdown/halo3 beta, just putting some bait out and waiting for the fish to bite. They can't detect anything more than that.
Exactly what I thought when they released a new update and shortly after that Halo was leaked. The game isn't verified and obviously has some flows in it because the game is repacked, so people will get banned.
QUOTE(ZakMcRofl @ Sep 4 2009, 09:25 AM)
WTF do people expect Microsoft to say? "While we cannot detect fully stealthed copies of this games, we can detect the XXX release due to corrupt game data" ?
Of course they claim that they will catch each and every pirate. But obviously they can only detect it as long as people play unverified, in this case clearly flawed copies.
All other explanations I've read so far (UniqueID on a pressed disk, ban by distance from leak) are ridiculous, baseless and against all logic.
They can't detect each and every console, because they cannot directly detect the modded firmware. If they were able to, they would simply ban you the second you came online and were detected with a modified firmware. Simple as that. They can only detect the crap you put into it and by that I mean unverified copies of games. Simple as that. But ofcourse they are gonna claim that they can detect all of the mods, if they wouldn't than all of a nobody would fall for the bate.
Post by: utar on September 04, 2009, 04:06:00 AM
QUOTE(ZakMcRofl @ Sep 4 2009, 09:56 AM)
And what code have you looked at? Drive firmware? Please enlighten us how Microsoft is supposed to detect a backup when the drive firmware is compromised and a black box to the 360.
If you know specific drive commands that Microsoft could use to detect backups, please share them and notify C4Eva. However I highly doubt that you do.
If you're the Intersect from xboxhacker I have to say I am very surprised by your lack of competence in this regard. Proper backups are undetectable given the right drive firmware.
Unless you own a disc pressing plant backups are always detectable.
For example how do you think copy protection such as secuROM works on the PC? These basically work by measuring read timings between different parts of the DVD and given that the tracks on a pressed DVD can be laid down slightly different to a DVD-R very clearly proves if a copy is an original.
If you copy games then MS has every right to ban you.
Utar
Post by: conners on September 04, 2009, 04:09:00 AM
Post by: gerozz88 on September 04, 2009, 04:41:00 AM
Will they ban the second unbanned (without mod) console too? will they ban the gamertag? will they do both?
This post has been edited by gerozz88: Sep 4 2009, 11:42 AM
Post by: BoNg420 on September 04, 2009, 05:22:00 AM
QUOTE
I can be clear however that this applies to illegitimate copies only, the ban covers the Xbox LIVE account and could possibly include their console depending on the results of our investigations (which are ongoing). We do this from time to time with titles to combat piracy.
This almost sounds like scare tactics.
They normally only ban consoles from Live. It seems weird that they said the ban covers the XBOX Live account and POSSIBLY the console... I don't get why they say that, if they know your box is modded, they always have banned your xbox.
Post by: illbastid on September 04, 2009, 05:29:00 AM
Remember the Halo 2 leak on the original Xbox?
French language,english subs(sound familiar).
Thousands played and had fun, then on the day of the official
release Thousands were banned no fun to be had.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
This post has been edited by illbastid: Sep 4 2009, 12:30 PM
Post by: grimmmy on September 04, 2009, 05:30:00 AM
Like its been said before, I reckon its just a bad rip. Its not stealthed properly so what do people expect.
The whole banning on region is a crap as well. Its not possible as there are so many legitimate reasons for not being in the same region as the game sold (i.e. region free, moved house, on holiday, imported game, etc).
Regarding the "ban accounts and console". Kinda makes sense and I've wondered why they haven't done this for years. They know people are happy to run 2 consoles, a legit one and a hacked one. Ban the hacked console and the live account means it might put people off a little more as the point of having 2 consoles would be removed.
Post by: ZakMcRofl on September 04, 2009, 06:57:00 AM
QUOTE(utar @ Sep 4 2009, 12:06 PM)
Unless you own a disc pressing plant backups are always detectable.
For example how do you think copy protection such as secuROM works on the PC? These basically work by measuring read timings between different parts of the DVD and given that the tracks on a pressed DVD can be laid down slightly different to a DVD-R very clearly proves if a copy is an original.
If you copy games then MS has every right to ban you.
Utar
Yeah, they could use PI/PO tracking or any other methods bases on the physical disk structure. However, and this was my argument, they have to go through the drive to get the results.
Since we (or rather C4EVA) are in control of the drive, we could just report sensible "this is an original" data.
QUOTE
I`ve not replied on here for a long time but for all those people who say that adding a unique ID to each game isnt possible. Sony did it on the PS2. DNAS data. I used to backup my games, then had to put a dnas read disc in the PS2, then the original disc, it would then display the data on screen. You then took the code and injected the code into the iso. So when you think that PS2 could do it all those years ago, then clearly MS can do it now. This allowed you to play online PS2 network games.
If the DNAS you're talking about was as unique as you say it is, how come thousands of people are playing with the same disk ID without getting banned (see DNAS lists)? I don't know the specifics of DNAS but it sounds more similar to the SS of Xbox 360 where each rip will produce a sligly different SS but the main part stays the same.
Besides, there are mod chips that circumvent DNAS which would hardly be possible if real unique ids where used (because it would have to guess one).
Post by: lmaolmao on September 04, 2009, 07:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 4 2009, 03:43 AM)
You seem to have a pretty low standard to what you believe is the moral level of the general population.
Just because someone buys a car that can go 150mph does not mean we have roads full of idiots that drive 150mph.
i think your comparisson is a little flawed.
surely something like.
person buys car
ranger72 fits flamethrowers and battering rams to their cars
person flames people and rams them (in that order)
ranger72 says "people these days!"
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 04, 2009, 07:27:00 AM
QUOTE(utar @ Sep 4 2009, 11:06 AM)
Unless you own a disc pressing plant backups are always detectable.
For example how do you think copy protection such as secuROM works on the PC? These basically work by measuring read timings between different parts of the DVD and given that the tracks on a pressed DVD can be laid down slightly different to a DVD-R very clearly proves if a copy is an original.
You realise that a failing DVD drive will produce similar results in many (if not all) of those tests, right? That's the main reason it's a bad idea. In the case of 360 games on a +R DL, these games have the same layout recorded. They're the closest they can be to a 1:1 copy, bearing in mind the difference in media (burned vs factory).
So the game essentially "looks" like the original version would look, with some very minor differences that the hacked firmware takes care of.
The idea that MS will ban you for playing the french version in any other region is also rediculous. Either the person on that podcast doesn't know and is spouting bullshit to scare people, or it's to deliberately throw off pirates from trying to stealth copy the (somewhat already available) french version.
Really, I think they're tring to get the ban numbers up (as most pirates I'd imagine by now are waiting on *at least* a copy they could go online with), to help spark some ODST talk (no bad advertising idea), to get more people interested in it.
Post by: ZprivateZ on September 04, 2009, 07:43:00 AM
Post by: Zod5000 on September 04, 2009, 07:53:00 AM
QUOTE(wulfie @ Sep 3 2009, 07:12 PM)
Even playing offline can get your 360 banned since it logs everything, even offline play.
I'm not sure thats entirely accurate? Doesn't guy who makes the hacked dvd drive firmwares also go through the xbox live logs? He's often posted if there's any changes in those logs after every xbox update.
As far as I recall the 360 doesn't send any information to live about the discs you play offline? I think if it did alot more people would be banned by now. Alot of people use the procedure of playing their backups offline only and originals for live play.
I'm pretty skeptical of your claim, because most post's i've read from c4eva seem to contradict your statement?
Post by: tech3475 on September 04, 2009, 07:57:00 AM
Post by: nitussi on September 04, 2009, 08:02:00 AM
This post has been edited by nitussi: Sep 4 2009, 03:14 PM
Post by: pingrr on September 04, 2009, 08:06:00 AM
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 08:17:00 AM
QUOTE(nitussi @ Sep 4 2009, 03:02 PM)
Its simple! M$ does not need a complicated system to ban people and increase end of year system sales.You play a release early, you are marked..regardless whether it is retail or pirated. Do it enough times--you are banned.
I work at a store that sells games, I bring home many of the games we get early and play them. Must have been atleast 20 games the past years, and some as early as up to a week before the street date. My console is not banned. (It is not flashed though)
Post by: Reaper527 on September 04, 2009, 08:17:00 AM
QUOTE(Zod5000 @ Sep 4 2009, 09:53 AM)
I'm not sure thats entirely accurate? Doesn't guy who makes the hacked dvd drive firmwares also go through the xbox live logs? He's often posted if there's any changes in those logs after every xbox update.
As far as I recall the 360 doesn't send any information to live about the discs you play offline? I think if it did alot more people would be banned by now. Alot of people use the procedure of playing their backups offline only and originals for live play.
I'm pretty skeptical of your claim, because most post's i've read from c4eva seem to contradict your statement?
i seem to remember reading that the system stores data on games played in an onboard flash chip, and while microsoft isn't currently using that data for bans, they theoretically could in the future. i can't seem to find the quote at the moment though, so i might be confusing a detail.
Post by: nitussi on September 04, 2009, 08:22:00 AM
QUOTE(crs @ Sep 4 2009, 10:17 AM)
I work at a store that sells games, I bring home many of the games we get early and play them. Must have been atleast 20 games the past years, and some as early as up to a week before the street date. My console is not banned. (It is not flashed though)
Well thats you!! They haven't dropped a ban hammer yet!!
I worked at EB 1 1/2 years ago, me and six others played early releases on unmodded boxes all the time--we all got our xboxes banned during a ban hammer.
This post has been edited by nitussi: Sep 4 2009, 03:25 PM
Post by: xc1234 on September 04, 2009, 08:26:00 AM
QUOTE(jkoz @ Sep 4 2009, 08:27 AM)
So... are gamertags being banned? Or is it just the system? If it's gamertags, I'm never connecting my system even though I didn't play it on my GT since it's linked by console ID... and if I sell it, it's still linked. On the other hand, if it's just my system that would get banned, I'll keep it unplugged for a bit from the internet, and unplug it from the wall for awhile too, throw a bunch of different games in to push the game list down, if it's stored on the 360's flash I guess. Can't think of much else to do.
wow. once u plug ur xbox back to the net. insta ban.
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 08:32:00 AM
QUOTE(nitussi @ Sep 4 2009, 03:22 PM)
Well thats you!! They haven't dropped a ban hammer yet!!
I worked at EB 1 1/2 years ago, me and six others played early releases on unmodded boxes all the time--we all got our xboxes banned during a ban hammer.
Well, as I said, for the past years, as in several years. I probably played the first game early back in 2006. And I still sometimes do. Can't really say I'm worried. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)
Post by: grimmmy on September 04, 2009, 08:39:00 AM
QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Sep 4 2009, 03:17 PM)
i seem to remember reading that the system stores data on games played in an onboard flash chip, and while microsoft isn't currently using that data for bans, they theoretically could in the future. i can't seem to find the quote at the moment though, so i might be confusing a detail.
I think you're right (can't find a quote either). Regardless, they must store and transmit a certain amount of data from going from offline onto online. The minute you drop in online your gamercard updates with everything you've played offline. Now, as to what they store I've no idea.
As for this whole "playing legit games early and being banned" business. I'm calling bullshit on that. I've reviewed games for a forum for about 3 years and they are all retail versions not review copies (they just have the box art stating promo copy). Never been banned nor had the threat of it. MS cannot ever monitor who has a game legitimately and who is meant to have it legitimately.
Post by: TehBanStick on September 04, 2009, 08:44:00 AM
Post by: ampedXR on September 04, 2009, 08:45:00 AM
Never got banned.
I'm pretty confident the bans are a result of bad game releases, but you guys shouldn't be downloading these game anyways. If you bought all your games, this thread wouldn't be 2 pages long already.
Buy your games, if you get them early, play them. I'm sure the ban would be reversed if you showed MS your receipts or something.
If you don't break the law you have nothing to be worried about
This post has been edited by ampedXR: Sep 4 2009, 03:46 PM
Post by: cagmere on September 04, 2009, 08:57:00 AM
QUOTE(nitussi @ Sep 4 2009, 10:22 AM)
Well thats you!! They haven't dropped a ban hammer yet!!
I worked at EB 1 1/2 years ago, me and six others played early releases on unmodded boxes all the time--we all got our xboxes banned during a ban hammer.
That's a complete lie, don't post bullshit here. You cannot get banned for playing legitimate copies early.
Post by: pholly on September 04, 2009, 09:08:00 AM
Post by: tokyodrifte on September 04, 2009, 09:41:00 AM
No one has reported a ban yet
Just keep the copies clean and stealth, This copy is waayy to sticky... im sure its missing bits in the original and then withint hours another group no one has heard of posted a fixed one just padded out.
Wait for relelase dates
Oh and.. please stop posting fantasy storys.. stick to facts.
Post by: Zod5000 on September 04, 2009, 09:52:00 AM
QUOTE(tokyodrifte @ Sep 4 2009, 09:41 AM)
I think you all need to step back and look at the facts, Stop day dreaming about the number of ways microsoft might ban people...
No one has reported a ban yet
Oh and.. please stop posting fantasy storys.. stick to facts.
Thats the paranoia part about being banned. They don't ban you instantly if they can detect you. They sit back gather a list of consoles and ban them all simutaenously. This allows as little time as possible for people stop doing what there doing that is detectable.
It causes people to daydream :) If microsoft banned people on the fly (like the xbox1), you'd know pretty quick, the way they've banned 360 customers makes everyone paranoid :)
Post by: joliverio on September 04, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
For those who think M$ can detect modded consoles, of course it is a bulshit, if They really can do that They already banned everybody without any mercy. The Xbox-360 "security concept" was proven later on that have a lot of holes, like a swiss cheese, otherwise surely They could detect and ban a modded console. For me, talking about security concept (for the developers of course) the benchmark is the PS3, many years in the market and so far nobody could mod PS3
Post by: amexie on September 04, 2009, 10:13:00 AM
QUOTE(cagmere @ Sep 4 2009, 02:57 PM)
That's a complete lie, don't post bullshit here. You cannot get banned for playing legitimate copies early.
err yes you can dont you remember when argos released halo 3 early and people got banned
Post by: Ranger72 on September 04, 2009, 10:28:00 AM
I would take it a step further and add some code to write some data to the Console itself to later upload the red flag warning next time the console logs onto Live.
The poison pill method would be the easiest fail proof way to catch people with modded console.
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 10:49:00 AM
QUOTE(wulfie @ Sep 3 2009, 07:12 PM)
Even playing offline can get your 360 banned since it logs everything, even offline play.
Not if you disconnect the hard drive...
Post by: sinister slipknot on September 04, 2009, 10:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 4 2009, 05:28 PM)
If I was Microsoft and I wanted to catch people with modded consoles I would release a fully working game that most people will do anything to play to a p2p network. I would add some custom code into this game that would wave a red flag on Live saying I am being played on a modded console. Put me on the ban list.
I would take it a step further and add some code to write some data to the Console itself to later upload the red flag warning next time the console logs onto Live.
The poison pill method would be the easiest fail proof way to catch people with modded console.
That is exactly what MS should do to catch pirates. But what they shouldn't do is tell people that is what they're doing. But knowing MS that is exactly what they would do.
There would also be the whole 'giving out games' to people who never sign into Live, and they couldn't just insta nuke the console, otherwise it'd be a bit obvious.
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 05:49 PM)
Not if you disconnect the hard drive...
It doesn't do it on the hard drive, it does it on an onboard chip.
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
QUOTE(sinister slipknot @ Sep 4 2009, 10:50 AM)
That is exactly what MS should do to catch pirates. But what they shouldn't do is tell people that is what they're doing. But knowing MS that is exactly what they would do.
There would also be the whole 'giving out games' to people who never sign into Live, and they couldn't just insta nuke the console, otherwise it'd be a bit obvious.
It doesn't do it on the hard drive, it does it on an onboard chip.
Never heard of this, prove it.
I'm pretty damn sure there's no "onboard chip" that records what you do.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Post by: mist4fun on September 04, 2009, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
QUOTE(mist4fun @ Sep 4 2009, 06:02 PM)
I doubt the "poison pill" method would work. Most pirates would stick to their reliable release groups as opposed to a new group that may not know what they are doing. Can you imagine seeing a release group named "microsoft" on a popular torrent site. lol. They wouldn't get many leechers.
While I personally think such a scheme seems highly unlikely, your argument doesn't really stick... someone could easily name a release whatever they want, like from some high profile group, and most people would believe it was legit (legit as far as scene release go). Especially if the game actually boots like the game it is supposed to be. It's not like most people get their releases directly from the scene groups, anyway, so how would they know the difference.
Post by: mist4fun on September 04, 2009, 11:38:00 AM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 10:00 AM)
Never heard of this, prove it.
I'm pretty damn sure there's no "onboard chip" that records what you do.
Apparently you live under a rock. This is common knowledge. Anyway just as a reference, unplug your hard drive and ethernet cable. Play three games under your profile, plug your ethernet cable back into your xbox and login to live. Go to xbox.com and look at your game history. What do you know... information about what games you have played offline without a hardrive attached.
Post by: hessec on September 04, 2009, 11:45:00 AM
It's a French release, and the menus are only in English because your xbox location is set to an English-speaking nation.
So if MS finds that you played the leaked ODST and they see that you are not French, you will be banned.
Post by: DjRicochet1 on September 04, 2009, 11:47:00 AM
QUOTE(mist4fun @ Sep 4 2009, 06:38 PM)
Apparently you live under a rock. This is common knowledge. Anyway just as a reference, unplug your hard drive and ethernet cable. Play three games under your profile, plug your ethernet cable back into your xbox and login to live. Go to xbox.com and look at your game history. What do you know... information about what games you have played offline without a hardrive attached.
Errm slight problem there mate, How can he play 3 games under his profile when the hard drive is disconnected, espicially if he has no memory unit connected what so ever?
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 11:51:00 AM
QUOTE(hessec @ Sep 4 2009, 06:45 PM)
my prediction:
It's a French release, and the menus are only in English because your xbox location is set to an English-speaking nation.
So if MS finds that you played the leaked ODST and they see that you are not French, you will be banned.
Wow, I wonder how MS managed to sneak in that awesome facial recognition software into the 360s, to tell if I'm French or British.
But seriously, if you ARE French (ie living in France) and play the leaked ODST, you WON'T get banned, then? Your last comment doesn't make sense. Either you get banned, or you don't, no matter who or where you are.
Post by: Intersect on September 04, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
That's where ap2.5 comes in. The general consensus on that is if they do implement ap2.5 properly, it would be close to impossible to beat. Since they store the ap2.5 table in a file encrypted with your cpu key in the nand, you would have to dump every file and decrypt to be sure that yours is the same as any other one. If you mess this up once, you can be flagged for ban, as well as if you mess with this table.
Ps. Serves you right heh
This post has been edited by Intersect: Sep 4 2009, 07:10 PM
Post by: syst3merror on September 04, 2009, 12:17:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 01:00 PM)
Never heard of this, prove it.
I'm pretty damn sure there's no "onboard chip" that records what you do.
Wow, I'm embarrassed to say I live in the same state as this guy. Ummmm, so you've never heard of the NAND chip then? You might want to go read up a little bit then, because you sir...FAIL!
Anyone that thinks that just unplugging their hard drive or ethernet cable is gonna save you is a freaking mental midget and should really go back to playing solitaire on their computer because "gaming" just isn't for you!
Post by: mist4fun on September 04, 2009, 12:17:00 PM
win ?
This post has been edited by mist4fun: Sep 4 2009, 07:18 PM
Post by: red_ring_of_box on September 04, 2009, 12:30:00 PM
QUOTE(amexie @ Sep 4 2009, 12:13 PM)
err yes you can dont you remember when argos released halo 3 early and people got banned
Really?
Sorry but it's only M$ employees that seemed to get banned, which is understandable seeing as they are trying to get a unofficially released game from the same company they work for.
Post by: Ranger72 on September 04, 2009, 01:01:00 PM
QUOTE(mist4fun @ Sep 4 2009, 02:17 PM)
I said the wrong scenario. Alright hard drive out, ethernet cord unplugged. play games you haven't played before, and look on your dashboards recent game history under the games section.
win ?
You are talking about game logs for your gamertag. This data would not be stored if you are not logged into your profile.
BUT other data that is not accessible to the end user COULD in theory be stored within the NAND and later uploaded to Live without the end user even knowing anything about it.
Post by: bobbler on September 04, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
2 weeks suspension from Live service (service restored on 18th of this month but subject to change if MS see fit to).
Here is the title of the message you will be getting:
"Notification of Temporary Suspension: Inappropriate content in your profile"
in your linked email account to Live then congratulations you got yourself a 2 week holiday off of live.
Doesn't appear to be a console ban, just a temp enforcement ... so far.
Now just to cover some of the reasons why having a French copy of the game is a dumb reason to just ban, considering the UK is something like 45 minutes on train to France it would be largely unreasonable to ban due to a language difference on a disk? No? Germany is even closer as is Spain, would you expect a ban if you picked up a copy of the game (assuming some of these posts have any grounding in facts - like a leak of 100 copies in France? LOL) and then took it home with you. What's to say you are not French and living in Spain/Germany/UK?
It's that specific copy of the game is likely a plant IMO in order to firstly get an idea of the number of modded consoles out there and secondly it makes for a nice soundbite to the games press in a weeks time, helping ensure that MS get their extra whatever percentage of sales.
Post by: pholly on September 04, 2009, 01:58:00 PM
Post by: zeroprobe on September 04, 2009, 02:11:00 PM
The ODST that is currently doing the rounds is a bait copy purposely released by Microsoft which writes a code identifer onto your xbox and is not present in the final release. Anytime LIVE can check if this bait copy has ever been played.
Simples.
This post has been edited by zeroprobe: Sep 4 2009, 09:13 PM
Post by: bobbyblaze on September 04, 2009, 02:35:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 4 2009, 07:58 PM)
Why don't they just release an update for all the DVD drives that is also mandatory to play online like they do with dash updates.
If there are (for arguments sake) 30 million consoles out there and the chances of a bad flash are, say, 0.5% (1 in 200) then Microsoft would be directly responsible for borking 150,000 consoles. Cost to repair (at $100 per sonsole) would be $15million and probably at least that again as a cost of bad publicity. Class action lawsuit, anyone?
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 02:39:00 PM
QUOTE(mist4fun @ Sep 4 2009, 11:38 AM)
Apparently you live under a rock. This is common knowledge. Anyway just as a reference, unplug your hard drive and ethernet cable. Play three games under your profile, plug your ethernet cable back into your xbox and login to live. Go to xbox.com and look at your game history. What do you know... information about what games you have played offline without a hardrive attached.
Hmmm well I think you need to recheck your "common knowledge".
I unplugged my hard drive, and turned on the xbox.
THERE ARE NO PROFILES WITHOUT A HARD DRIVE OR MEMORY CARD PLUGGED IN.
Put in a game I haven't played in months, Perfect Dark Zero, played for a few minutes.
Turned the xbox off, plugged the hard drive back in, and "what do you know", the last game I played was Call of Duty!
Post by: jkoz on September 04, 2009, 02:40:00 PM
QUOTE(xc1234 @ Sep 4 2009, 07:26 AM)
wow. once u plug ur xbox back to the net. insta ban.
So... you got banned instantly? What about your gamertag?
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 02:44:00 PM
QUOTE(mist4fun @ Sep 4 2009, 12:17 PM)
I said the wrong scenario. Alright hard drive out, ethernet cord unplugged. play games you haven't played before, and look on your dashboards recent game history under the games section.
win ?
I checked this too...
Same test, played Perfect Dark Zero (game I haven't played in months) without a hard drive or memory card plugged in.
Restarted the xbox, plugged the hard drive back in, and in my game history, Call of Duty is the last game I played.
I think it would be safe to play this game without a hard drive or network connection unless someone can prove otherwise.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Post by: Ranger72 on September 04, 2009, 03:09:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Sep 4 2009, 03:58 PM)
Why don't they just release an update for all the DVD drives that is also mandatory to play online like they do with dash updates. I think they're making a mistake by targeting what is probably a small percentage of actual online gamers instead of just fixing the hole.
Because then they would need to cover for everyone in the world that has a 360 to ship to Microsoft for them to flash the drive and ship them back. This would cost Microsoft billions of $$$$. Not going to happen.
And due to hardware limitations the drive could not be flashed from within the console using the consoles hardware.
Post by: Jebuzz on September 04, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
QUOTE(Reaper527 @ Sep 3 2009, 10:34 PM)
guys, just be careful what you say here. the mods are watching (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
on topic, it is interesting that microsoft is claiming the ability to detect illegitimate copies. one would have to wonder if there will be a lot of pissed off members in the near future, or if he is simply referring to the fact that game data is missing, (this is a fact, i have seen an abgx screenshot that shows it as an undersized iso), and this can be detected since it is different from the retail disc. (much like the reviewer copies of certain games that resulted in a ban wave previously)
just a 2nd reminder to everyone:
we don't care what you do outside of here, but here, you will NOT be asking for pirated games here, telling people where to get them, or naming releases, or you will find yourself on a temporary or permanent vacation.
Okay, Im really fucking tired of this whole "cant talk about piracy" on this and 360mods forums. You do realize these sites are dedicated to piracy right? You cant make legal backups.... Stop thinking you can, b/c you cant and MS, MPAA, and RIAA have made this crystal clear. Hypocrisy at its best.
Note, its not toward you reaper.
Also, people are getting banned because like someone said earlier, there is a rar file missing and it fails the validation test. Its not like this game is good or anything, its something bungie made to make some money. If I still played halo 3, the only good thing from this would be that you get (according to the screenshots ive seen) midship for halo 3.
This post has been edited by Jebuzz: Sep 4 2009, 10:33 PM
Post by: gotloveforall on September 04, 2009, 03:35:00 PM
QUOTE(Jebuzz @ Sep 4 2009, 05:30 PM)
Okay, Im really fucking tired of this whole "cant talk about piracy" on this and 360mods forums. You do realize these sites are dedicated to piracy right? You cant make legal backups.... Stop thinking you can, b/c you cant and MS, MPAA, and RIAA have made this crystal clear. Hypocrisy at its best.
Obviously you do not live in Canada.
Because here we CAN legally make a 1 copy of a game the we own. I am sure this is the same in many, many parts of the world. Just not in your country perhaps.
Post by: PaddyPat on September 04, 2009, 04:00:00 PM
QUOTE(gotloveforall @ Sep 4 2009, 01:35 PM)
Obviously you do not live in Canada.
Because here we CAN legally make a 1 copy of a game the we own. I am sure this is the same in many, many parts of the world. Just not in your country perhaps.
I live in Canada and I know that you can make a 1:1 copy of something you own....IF it does not require you to circumvent its copy protection. Making a 1:1 copy with a Kreon drive and modding your system is obviously circumventing copy protection.
Post by: dbldown768 on September 04, 2009, 04:03:00 PM
QUOTE(Intersect @ Sep 4 2009, 01:08 PM)
Their ap2.0 disc security is basically dvd-cops. The kernel and hypervisor code verifies the response after each challenge instead of verifying an entire sequence. The issue with that being if you do a single type 5 or 7 timing challenge, the position at which it starts reading is going to be the same, so your response is going to be pretty close to the same, so a stored response passes. Since the security sectors are aligned across the disc, they could issue challenges in sequences without verifying after each, but an entire sequence. Since the security sectors are aligned, and the drive doesn't read in both directions, there would be a sector skew. Hacked firmware or not, you would need to store every possible sequence, per game, and have a magical firmware that knows the sequence being issued to it in advance.
That's where ap2.5 comes in. The general consensus on that is if they do implement ap2.5 properly, it would be close to impossible to beat. Since they store the ap2.5 table in a file encrypted with your cpu key in the nand, you would have to dump every file and decrypt to be sure that yours is the same as any other one. If you mess this up once, you can be flagged for ban, as well as if you mess with this table.
Ps. Serves you right heh
rather than talking about piracy, i'd rather hear more about this... has there been any recent finding of the possiblities of using ap2.5 after the new update....
Post by: ydgmms on September 04, 2009, 04:04:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 03:44 PM) 
I checked this too...
Same test, played Perfect Dark Zero (game I haven't played in months) without a hard drive or memory card plugged in.
Restarted the xbox, plugged the hard drive back in, and in my game history, Call of Duty is the last game I played.
I think it would be safe to play this game without a hard drive or network connection unless someone can prove otherwise.
Where do you think the Dashboard is stored? _answer_ NAND chip. A readable/writeable (uhh..upgrades?) chip.
The entire NAND chip is not being used, they *can* and *do* store information.
Deal with it. You are wrong.
How do I know? I recently offerend to send an Xbox that has played backups but *NEVER* been on live to Ireiz/the scene, for them to check this very issue. His response? To paraphrase, 'no thanks, we know they do store information even when played offline'
kthxbai
Post by: Devedander on September 04, 2009, 04:18:00 PM
A close look brought up some pretty obvious logic:
Games that aren't retail should not work on your console unless you have a dev unit. This is because until they are gold and pressed, MS doesn't sign the code or it's signed specifically for dev units. So when you have a game that isn't a retail release, but runs on your non dev kit xbox... MS had a direct hand in making it work.
Why would they do this?
Well why do you think? Poison pill.
Someone said Poision pill wouldn't work, well I beg to differ, it almost certainly was what happened last time and it seems very likely it's what's happening this time.
As for the cost of giving away games etc, remember, most people who would download the early release would have just downloaded it anyway, that is not a lost sale.
As for the NAND flash (onboard chip) many people have dumped it, played lots of games and dumped it again... no change. COULD this be used to track offline play? I suppose... is it CURRENTLY being used to track offline play? Almost certainly not.
As to the guy who is talking about taking out his hard drive and the xbox still somehow knowing what games you have played, you don't by chance have an arcade unit with a built in memory unit do you? You know, basically a hard drive you can't take out?
As for unique disc ID's... still not feasible because discs are still being stamped.
Those who say MS can detect your firmware or if you just saw the code you would know what MS can do... you are talking out your a**. MS cannot detect your firmware due to a security measure they temselves implimented. The very reason it's so hard to dump firmware and mess with it is because of this. The reason we have to boot in a special way with special software to flash the firmware is because it's just so hard and there is no way (currently) for the console to access that area of the drive. So that's out the window.
Look guys, before you go jumping off the deepe end with what's possible, remember this:
Just because you thought up some complicated scheme or heard something about technology that you dont' know about, and just because that thing might be possible, doesn't mean you have found the answer... it just means you thought of something possible.
Think it through logically and question your own assumptions, and I bet it doesn't take long to come to the most reasonable and likely conclusion...
This is just another poison pill. Too convenient not to be.
Come on, a release missing an RAR but it still burns and works?
Something wrong with the game, but it loads and plays?
How many games actually get relased early? Now how many of those early releases happen to be the perfect ones to setup a sting and also meet the above requirements?
How could this happen (hint, MS has a TIGHT lockdown on code and how it can be run)?
Think about it guys, it's not rocket science.
Post by: kingdt on September 04, 2009, 04:27:00 PM
I'll just leave the RJ plugged in then and take my chances.
Post by: gotloveforall on September 04, 2009, 04:37:00 PM
QUOTE(PaddyPat @ Sep 4 2009, 06:00 PM)
I live in Canada and I know that you can make a 1:1 copy of something you own....IF it does not require you to circumvent its copy protection. Making a 1:1 copy with a Kreon drive and modding your system is obviously circumventing copy protection.
Please point me towards this law. A citing would be nice.
Post by: Intersect on September 04, 2009, 04:41:00 PM
Post by: Devedander on September 04, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
QUOTE(Intersect @ Sep 4 2009, 03:41 PM)
Just because you think you know, doesn't mean you know. They do in fact store some settings in the nand in certain blocks, regardless of whether you have a hard drive, memory card, or even internal mu with the new 256/512mb. Again, they can run whatever code they want. If they decide to store the results, they can do so in the nand config blocks.
What blocks? I have seen multiple reports of people dumping their NAND many times and not seeing changes. I am not talking "encrypted stuff might get by" I am talking bit for bit it's th same thing. I believe C4eva has done this quite a few times and reported the same.
And more importantly, are you saying the CAN or that they DO? Whether they CAN is not in question, it's whether they DO.
And the whole "they can run whatever code they want" argument I think you are taking a bit too far. Sure MS could run any code they want, but what they can do is still limited. For instance they cannot see into the DVD drives firmware.
Post by: Emerica on September 04, 2009, 04:52:00 PM
Think about it this way. You are NOT going to get banned for playing a REAL copy. Major Nelsons community I would guess is not really a huge group of pirates, I'd assume the majority of his crowd are on live and pay for their games. Now why even bring up the point? To me this is like saying, hey paying customers, we're hacked and you can play early but you might get banned. I'm kinda laughing at the fact they posted about it at all. Why not just sit back and ban, maybe they just want to sell more hardware.
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 04:54:00 PM
QUOTE(Jebuzz @ Sep 4 2009, 03:30 PM)
Also, people are getting banned because like someone said earlier, there is a rar file missing and it fails the validation test.
If you have a .rar file missing, it will not extract at all. You can't burn the .iso until it's extracted.
Post by: Emerica on September 04, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 11:54 PM)
If you have a .rar file missing, it will not extract at all. You can't burn the .iso until it's extracted.
That all depends if the the rar he's talking about was part of the main archive.
Post by: torbjorn on September 04, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
everytime a new halo is coming people just freak out..
and read thecomments at the guys dl this shit is funny.
quote"
stupid says " hey guys i just dl this game, and burned it as usual, but it just keeps freezing,, what to do??""
these guys are the ones making all the fuzz..
i belive that to be banned u need to be kinda stupid..
and careless and ignorant...
i have never heard or met anyone who have been banned, maybe because they were smarter than the average joe??
so YEAH. just go ahead and play illegal and complain after!!
btw- is it any good??
Post by: sinister slipknot on September 04, 2009, 04:59:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 09:39 PM)
Hmmm well I think you need to recheck your "common knowledge".
I unplugged my hard drive, and turned on the xbox.
THERE ARE NO PROFILES WITHOUT A HARD DRIVE OR MEMORY CARD PLUGGED IN.
Put in a game I haven't played in months, Perfect Dark Zero, played for a few minutes.
Turned the xbox off, plugged the hard drive back in, and "what do you know", the last game I played was Call of Duty!
The chip doesnt register what profiles have played what, it records data from the DVD drive, many people who used non stealthed C4E firmware got banned when MS used this tactic of recovering stored data from the chip. the stealthed firmware helped get around this by covering up the abnormalities that the drive recorded due to the backups. Its possible that MS has once again utilized this feature in a slightly different manner to pick up on people playing ODST early.
Also:
QUOTE
THERE ARE NO PROFILES WITHOUT A HARD DRIVE OR MEMORY CARD PLUGGED IN.
If you have an Arcade SKU with the memory built onto the board and had your profile stored on that, when you removed your HDD the profile would show up... just because with your particular setup something is right doesnt mean its the same with everyone else.
Post by: Devedander on September 04, 2009, 04:59:00 PM
QUOTE(Emerica @ Sep 4 2009, 03:52 PM)
I think MS is starting to shoot themselves in the foot.
Think about it this way. You are NOT going to get banned for playing a REAL copy. Major Nelsons community I would guess is not really a huge group of pirates, I'd assume the majority of his crowd are on live and pay for their games. Now why even bring up the point? To me this is like saying, hey paying customers, we're hacked and you can play early but you might get banned. I'm kinda laughing at the fact they posted about it at all. Why not just sit back and ban, maybe they just want to sell more hardware.
The news made it here didn't it? It certainly seems to be having the desired effect doesn't it?
It's called getting the word out. Let Major Nelsons fanboys eat up the bannings and run around telling everyone they know about it because they are so excited that those dirty pirates are getting banned!
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 11:54 PM)
If you have a .rar file missing, it will not extract at all. You can't burn the .iso until it's extracted.
If you use the "keep broken files" option, you can extract a multiple rar archive with missing files. Though of course, the data past the missing file will be lacking. Hence, why there a bit of a debacle over the leaked ODST and why it can be detected.
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 05:03:00 PM
QUOTE(ydgmms @ Sep 4 2009, 04:04 PM)
Where do you think the Dashboard is stored? _answer_ NAND chip. A readable/writeable (uhh..upgrades?) chip.
The entire NAND chip is not being used, they *can* and *do* store information.
Deal with it. You are wrong.
How do I know? I recently offerend to send an Xbox that has played backups but *NEVER* been on live to Ireiz/the scene, for them to check this very issue. His response? To paraphrase, 'no thanks, we know they do store information even when played offline'
kthxbai
And where is your proof of this?
Writing to the NAND chip every time you play a game doesn't make any sense. If the xbox was shut off in the middle of writing, the xbox couldn't boot.
"Deal with it. You are wrong" - and how are you right? lol
QUOTE(crs @ Sep 4 2009, 05:00 PM)
If you use the "keep broken files" option, you can extract a multiple rar archive with missing files. Though of course, the data past the missing file will be lacking. Hence, why there a bit of a debacle over the leaked ODST and why it can be detected.
Any time I have a incomplete .rar, WinRAR says it's missing a piece, and won't extract. Of course, if you use .par2 files to repair, it fixes the incomplete .rar file, and everything works as normal.
Post by: Emerica on September 04, 2009, 05:07:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 5 2009, 12:03 AM)
And where is your proof of this?
Writing to the NAND chip every time you play a game doesn't make any sense. If the xbox was shut off in the middle of writing, the xbox couldn't boot.
"Deal with it. You are wrong" - and how are you right? lol
Any time I have a incomplete .rar, WinRAR says it's missing a piece, and won't extract. Of course, if you use .par2 files to repair, it fixes the incomplete .rar file, and everything works as normal.
Not to mention the cycles on the flash is probably low,alot of gaming might add up quickly
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 05:07:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 5 2009, 12:03 AM)
Any time I have a incomplete .rar, WinRAR says it's missing a piece, and won't extract. Of course, if you use .par2 files to repair, it fixes the incomplete .rar file, and everything works as normal.
Well did you read my reply? If you use the "keep broken files" option, the extraction will save your file(s) with all data up till the point where data is missing. Which worked well for the leaked ODST, as the missing file was one of the very last. So for some reason, the leaked copy works, eventhough it's missing the last 200MB or so. Probably non-critical data.
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 05:10:00 PM
QUOTE(sinister slipknot @ Sep 4 2009, 04:59 PM)
The chip doesnt register what profiles have played what, it records data from the DVD drive, many people who used non stealthed C4E firmware got banned when MS used this tactic of recovering stored data from the chip. the stealthed firmware helped get around this by covering up the abnormalities that the drive recorded due to the backups. Its possible that MS has once again utilized this feature in a slightly different manner to pick up on people playing ODST early.
Also:
If you have an Arcade SKU with the memory built onto the board and had your profile stored on that, when you removed your HDD the profile would show up... just because with your particular setup something is right doesnt mean its the same with everyone else.
Yeah, I knew about the built in memory in newer Arcade units, but I meant if no memory unit / hard drive was plugged in at all (including built in memory).
I didn't know about Microsoft recovering data on the chip though. Good info.
QUOTE(crs @ Sep 4 2009, 05:07 PM)
Well did you read my reply? If you use the "keep broken files" option, the extraction will save your file(s) with all data up till the point where data is missing. Which worked well for the leaked ODST, as the missing file was one of the very last. So for some reason, the leaked copy works, eventhough it's missing the last 200MB or so. Probably non-critical data.
Yeah, I read it. I just don't understand why you would enable an option that lets you have damaged files after extraction.
By default WinRAR doesn't let you do that. That's what I meant.
Calm down, calm down.
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 05:13:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 5 2009, 12:10 AM)
Yeah, I read it. I just don't understand why you would enable an option that lets you have damaged files after extraction.
It was in context of the leaked ODST. The guy who leaked it, deliberately left out a file. And when you have a bunch of people desperate to play it, of course they're going to use that option. And even compress it again to make a working archive of a broken file.
Post by: Albany on September 04, 2009, 05:24:00 PM
Post by: drkoolbeanz on September 04, 2009, 05:29:00 PM
fyi: I downloaded it, ran it through abgx360, everything passed (stealth included) but the verification with the online database. That's to be expected since it hasn't even been released yet. The fact it's missing a .rar piece doesn't make it "useless" immediately.
The way I see this is that the shit got leaked, microsoft wants people to be scared. Why would they promote piracy by even mentioning it in the first place? Mgr. Nelson is full of crap.
Post by: crs on September 04, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
QUOTE(Albany @ Sep 5 2009, 12:24 AM)
The leaked copy I have matches every other ISO size...7.29 GB (7,838,695,424 bytes). Wouldn't it show here 200mb less if it was the broken copy? (just sayin don't plan on playing anyway).
You can pad a file to any larger size you want by adding garbage data. One of the leaked ODST was missing data, there's no doubt about that, but I suppose there might be other leaks also.
But yeah, I'm not sure if we can talk this much about the specifics about the leaked ODST, I guess I'll leave it at that.
Post by: PaddyPat on September 04, 2009, 06:49:00 PM
QUOTE(gotloveforall @ Sep 4 2009, 02:37 PM)
Please point me towards this law. A citing would be nice.
Here is a news story about it from CTVnews.
http://www.ctv.ca/se...80612/20080612/
"The new legislation would also make it illegal to copy a CD or DVD if it involves breaking a so-called "digital lock" place on the material by a distributor."
Here is the actual bill, click on "Technological Measures and Rights Management Information"
http://www2.parl.gc....P...&Language=E
read Section 41, then be prepared to fall asleep
I'm no lawman but I'm pretty sure that means you can't copy IP.
Post by: krawhitham on September 04, 2009, 06:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 4 2009, 02:43 AM)
You seem to have a pretty low standard to what you believe is the moral level of the general population.
And you are either fooling yourself or are trying to cover your ass
Post by: Xeriak on September 04, 2009, 07:49:00 PM
Why would m$ use a dumb feature such as having the dvd drive send game disc information in the form of a log written to NAND everytime a game is played?? I'm sure the NAND can't go on in continuity storing 100's of game disc information when the console is unplugged from live with no hdd and profile..
So lets say I did play that ODST leak... not saying I did.. and played it offline, no HDD, no profile.. And lets say I haven't signed into LIVE since having played leaked odst..
Now what if I go through all 80+ of my legit retail games.. put em all in, boot em up... exit to dash, eject, put in next legit retail game... rinse and repeat.
Wouldn't the bad data of ODST leak eventually disappear out of memory??
I'm suprised noone has really any concrete information about DVD drive sending stored info to NAND for m$ to retrieve and a later date for a ban hammer.
- Xeriak
Post by: sk8er31287 on September 04, 2009, 07:53:00 PM
Post by: devilstrider on September 04, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
QUOTE(sk8er31287 @ Sep 4 2009, 06:53 PM)
I heard you have to send your broken ISO to foundmy.com and pay 42 bucks so you can play it without getting banned.
Post by: swg1251 on September 04, 2009, 10:10:00 PM
Is it because to be able to tell if the file actually contains copyrighted material would require downloading it and therefore also breaking the law?
I don't just mean 360 games either, I mean torrents in general.... how come no one ever gets caught?
And I think it's a little sad how so many people are SOOOO excited for a game that they risk getting banned by illegally DL'ing a leaked early copy of the game.... and then they will probably end up whining up a storm when they do get their ban...
Post by: snes_83 on September 04, 2009, 10:14:00 PM
QUOTE(swg1251 @ Sep 4 2009, 10:10 PM)
I assume that most of the pirating of games comes from torrent sites, and I understand how those are legal - they don't host the files, just a way to get the files from others. However, shouldn't it be relatively easy to tell if someone is downloading from a torrent?
Is it because to be able to tell if the file actually contains copyrighted material would require downloading it and therefore also breaking the law?
I don't just mean 360 games either, I mean torrents in general.... how come no one ever gets caught?
And I think it's a little sad how so many people are SOOOO excited for a game that they risk getting banned by illegally DL'ing a leaked early copy of the game.... and then they will probably end up whining up a storm when they do get their ban...
No, most of the pirating comes from Usenet.
That's all I'm going to say about that.
Post by: swg1251 on September 04, 2009, 10:24:00 PM
Looking at the Wikipedia page though now it makes sense why people would use it for piracy - very anonymous and such...
Post by: d-range on September 05, 2009, 03:13:00 AM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 09:44 PM)
I checked this too...
Same test, played Perfect Dark Zero (game I haven't played in months) without a hard drive or memory card plugged in.
Restarted the xbox, plugged the hard drive back in, and in my game history, Call of Duty is the last game I played.
I think it would be safe to play this game without a hard drive or network connection unless someone can prove otherwise.
Please stop spreading uninformed bullshit if you don't know the first thing about the 360 hardware, it doesn't matter what you think is in the box, but what is actually there, which is a NAND chip that can be written by the console. The same NAND chip that was doubled in size on the later arcade units to hold the NXE, which takes a lot more space than the old dashboard. If you think your 'theory' is so sound, you explain how arcade units (which don't have a hard drive) ever got banned.
These forums are getting way too confusing with people like you shouting nonsense about what is and isn't possible on the 360 hardware.
Post by: pipniga on September 05, 2009, 03:26:00 AM
QUOTE(Xeriak @ Sep 5 2009, 03:49 AM)
Isn't the NAND chip size relatively small in storage capacity??
Why would m$ use a dumb feature such as having the dvd drive send game disc information in the form of a log written to NAND everytime a game is played?? I'm sure the NAND can't go on in continuity storing 100's of game disc information when the console is unplugged from live with no hdd and profile..
So lets say I did play that ODST leak... not saying I did.. and played it offline, no HDD, no profile.. And lets say I haven't signed into LIVE since having played leaked odst..
Now what if I go through all 80+ of my legit retail games.. put em all in, boot em up... exit to dash, eject, put in next legit retail game... rinse and repeat.
Wouldn't the bad data of ODST leak eventually disappear out of memory??
I'm suprised noone has really any concrete information about DVD drive sending stored info to NAND for m$ to retrieve and a later date for a ban hammer.
- Xeriak
I think somebody said that onboard NAND chip (without internal MU) can store 5 SS of games you played.
Last 5 games you played is stored. If you play leaked not-original game disc before release date, just play 5 more games after it and you should be fine.
I didnt made that up, I just wrote something that somebody said once.
Post by: darkshadow2k8 on September 05, 2009, 04:00:00 AM
Post by: amexie on September 05, 2009, 06:02:00 AM
QUOTE(Xeriak @ Sep 5 2009, 01:49 AM)
Isn't the NAND chip size relatively small in storage capacity??
Why would m$ use a dumb feature such as having the dvd drive send game disc information in the form of a log written to NAND everytime a game is played?? I'm sure the NAND can't go on in continuity storing 100's of game disc information when the console is unplugged from live with no hdd and profile..
So lets say I did play that ODST leak... not saying I did.. and played it offline, no HDD, no profile.. And lets say I haven't signed into LIVE since having played leaked odst..
Now what if I go through all 80+ of my legit retail games.. put em all in, boot em up... exit to dash, eject, put in next legit retail game... rinse and repeat.
Wouldn't the bad data of ODST leak eventually disappear out of memory??
I'm suprised noone has really any concrete information about DVD drive sending stored info to NAND for m$ to retrieve and a later date for a ban hammer.
- Xeriak
what would probably be better and should work is if you dump your full nand with an lpt port and nandpro
before playing game then reflash your full nand back to it so there will be no record of it being played
only problem jasper full nand is 512mb wich would take about a week to make a complete full dump
Post by: Moegames on September 05, 2009, 07:21:00 AM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 3 2009, 07:26 PM)
It was around this time last year when some (special) games was leaked early to catch people for the last ban wave last fall.
Don't want to get banned? Buy your own damn games when they come out in the store and rip them yourself.
your such a hypocrite, my goodness lol..i've seen it all now
Post by: Xeriak on September 05, 2009, 08:11:00 AM
QUOTE(amexie @ Sep 5 2009, 01:02 PM)
what would probably be better and should work is if you dump your full nand with an lpt port and nandpro
before playing game then reflash your full nand back to it so there will be no record of it being played
only problem jasper full nand is 512mb wich would take about a week to make a complete full dump
Forgive me for being uninformed, I kinda left the scene for some time... What are people using nowadays to dump and rewrite back to the NAND?? I imagine it will require alot of soldering?? And the LPT1 port is obsolete nowadays... hardly any of my PC's even use it.. So I had to buy a parallel to USB adapter to even use one of my stone-age printers.
And as of right now, I own 1 jasper console(RE5 limited edition red console) which I don't plan on ever opening up and modding. All other consoles I own are older elites and some pros which can't possibly have jasper in em.
Post by: snes_83 on September 05, 2009, 09:28:00 AM
QUOTE(d-range @ Sep 5 2009, 05:13 AM)
Please stop spreading uninformed bullshit if you don't know the first thing about the 360 hardware, it doesn't matter what you think is in the box, but what is actually there, which is a NAND chip that can be written by the console. The same NAND chip that was doubled in size on the later arcade units to hold the NXE, which takes a lot more space than the old dashboard. If you think your 'theory' is so sound, you explain how arcade units (which don't have a hard drive) ever got banned.
These forums are getting way too confusing with people like you shouting nonsense about what is and isn't possible on the 360 hardware.
New arcade units have built a built in memory unit on the motherboard, that might explain why they get banned.
I might be spreading "uninformed bullshit", but it sounds like you really don't know what you're talking about either. None of us do. We're just repeating "theories" we read on Xbox-Scene.
Go be a douche somewhere else...
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 05, 2009, 09:34:00 AM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 5 2009, 04:28 PM)
New arcade units have built a built in memory unit on the motherboard, that might explain why they get banned.
That has nothing to do with old units without extra flash memory have been banned, as well (according to the last poster).
It's been repeadedly proven that the NAND can store the ban data/offline checks; the only question is if it's ever being used for that or not.
You really don't have a sound idea of how the 360 works, and should read up more on it.
Post by: snes_83 on September 05, 2009, 09:35:00 AM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Sep 5 2009, 11:34 AM)
Old units without extra flash memory have been banned, as well.
It's been repeadedly proven that the NAND can store the data; the only question is if it's ever being used for that or not.
You really don't have a sound idea of how the 360 works, and should read up more on it.
Ok, fine. I'll read more.
Sorry I offended all of you guys with my lack of Xbox 360 knowledge.
Just throwing out ideas.
Post by: snes_83 on September 05, 2009, 10:11:00 AM
QUOTE(d-range @ Sep 5 2009, 05:13 AM)
Please stop spreading uninformed bullshit if you don't know the first thing about the 360 hardware, it doesn't matter what you think is in the box, but what is actually there, which is a NAND chip that can be written by the console. The same NAND chip that was doubled in size on the later arcade units to hold the NXE, which takes a lot more space than the old dashboard. If you think your 'theory' is so sound, you explain how arcade units (which don't have a hard drive) ever got banned.
These forums are getting way too confusing with people like you shouting nonsense about what is and isn't possible on the 360 hardware.
You obviously didn't read what I was replying to.
Someone else was giving me shit for saying that if you unplug all memory units or hard drive, then load a game in the 360, it will show up in your "recent games" list when you plug the memory unit or hard drive back in.
I was just saying that I tried this with Perfect Dark, and Call of Duty showed up as the last game I played after plugging my hard drive back in. I didn't say anything about the NAND chip.
Post by: legssmit on September 05, 2009, 11:07:00 AM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 07:00 PM)
Never heard of this, prove it.
I'm pretty damn sure there's no "onboard chip" that records what you do.
And if you still want proof, search for JTAG exploit here at X-S or at xboxhacker.net
Post by: snes_83 on September 05, 2009, 11:55:00 AM
QUOTE(legssmit @ Sep 5 2009, 01:07 PM)
Here you clearly state that there is no NAND or other onboard chip...so maybe you were the one that didnt understand to what d-range was replying ?
And if you still want proof, search for JTAG exploit here at X-S or at xboxhacker.net
Yeah, I've seen that about how they have SNES running on an exploit. Pretty cool stuff. Hope they get it to the same level of the original Xbox someday.
I know there is a NAND chip, it contains the dashboard, but I just don't believe that it records every disc you play.
Maybe it does though, I'm not an expert on the subject.
Getting tired of arguing about it.
Post by: snes_83 on September 05, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
QUOTE(amexie @ Sep 5 2009, 08:02 AM)
what would probably be better and should work is if you dump your full nand with an lpt port and nandpro
before playing game then reflash your full nand back to it so there will be no record of it being played
only problem jasper full nand is 512mb wich would take about a week to make a complete full dump
That's pretty much the only way to prove if it records disc history.
Good idea. Hope someone does this.
Post by: deathmule bm on September 05, 2009, 12:14:00 PM
does that mean ban your gamer tag? can they do that? we pay money for are account so we own it. how can they ban it
Post by: legssmit on September 05, 2009, 12:16:00 PM
QUOTE(deathmule bm @ Sep 5 2009, 08:14 PM)
"the ban covers the Xbox LIVE account and could possibly include their console depending on the results of our investigations "
does that mean ban your gamer tag? can they do that? we pay money for are account so we own it. how can they ban it
Youve payed money for your xbox too, and still you dont really own it
Post by: vb_encryption_vb on September 05, 2009, 12:26:00 PM
QUOTE(deathmule bm @ Sep 5 2009, 02:14 PM)
"the ban covers the Xbox LIVE account and could possibly include their console depending on the results of our investigations "
does that mean ban your gamer tag? can they do that? we pay money for are account so we own it. how can they ban it
You don't own the name, your just renting it. Yes, they can ban your name, it has happened to me on more then one occasion for my profile containing words that violate the XBL TOS.
Post by: Ranger72 on September 05, 2009, 12:27:00 PM
QUOTE(legssmit @ Sep 5 2009, 02:16 PM)
Youve payed money for your xbox too, and still you dont really own it
Nobody own anything in this world. Hell you cant even own land. You just lease it from the government for as long as you pay taxes on it.
Post by: ydgmms on September 05, 2009, 12:50:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 06:03 PM)
And where is your proof of this?
Writing to the NAND chip every time you play a game doesn't make any sense. If the xbox was shut off in the middle of writing, the xbox couldn't boot.
"Deal with it. You are wrong" - and how are you right? lol
\
I gave you my proof in that very reply to you. Iriez, himself, told me.
kthxbai
Post by: deathmule bm on September 05, 2009, 01:06:00 PM
QUOTE(Ranger72 @ Sep 5 2009, 07:27 PM)
Nobody own anything in this world. Hell you cant even own land. You just lease it from the government for as long as you pay taxes on it.
inserting comment doesn't that mean the government owns the land
thx for the life lesson back to topic. M$ would be idiots to ban accounts, people that get there xbox 360 banned still pay for xbox live and they will buy a new xbox 360. i think they will ban accounts for playing games that are not out yet like halo ODST
Post by: jkoz on September 05, 2009, 01:08:00 PM
QUOTE(deathmule bm @ Sep 5 2009, 11:14 AM)
"the ban covers the Xbox LIVE account and could possibly include their console depending on the results of our investigations "
does that mean ban your gamer tag? can they do that? we pay money for are account so we own it. how can they ban it
That's the question I've been trying to get answered for these ten pages now... has anyones account been banned, or is this instabanhammer only for the console? I don't want my account banned, so if they are, this 360 won't ever be hooked up to online again.
Post by: illbastid on September 05, 2009, 03:15:00 PM
Console ban and possibly an account ban.
Post by: bobbler on February 03, 2020, 02:53:00 PM
QUOTE(jkoz @ Sep 5 2009, 08:08 PM)
That's the question I've been trying to get answered for these ten pages now... has anyones account been banned, or is this instabanhammer only for the console? I don't want my account banned, so if they are, this 360 won't ever be hooked up to online again.
Well, I have to suggest you re-read the thread. I posted it up earlier about half way through.
They are blocking your live account for 2 weeks. This is not a console ban like previous infringements last wave (pre-stealthed firmware and the like).If you have been flagged you will not be able to connect to Live, you will have an email from [email protected] in your linked email account telling you of inappropriate content in your gamer profile (I am assuming this is just a generic message that they have not customised to include anything in particular in relation to playing pre-release date games - ODST or otherwise)
This post has been edited by bobbler: Yesterday, 10:55 PM
Post by: yatti on September 05, 2009, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: BenJeremy on September 05, 2009, 07:16:00 PM
QUOTE(ampedXR @ Sep 4 2009, 12:48 AM)
nearly 4 years into the 360 scene and the noobs that keep showing up and posting still never fail to amuse me.
Why do some people talk when they have absolutely no clue what they are saying?
Ayup.
Last year's bans were from leaks. Microsoft leaked "special versions" of the games into the scene, and people snatched them up and played them. They were different from the retail discs, and several significant factors pointed to them being developer builds that had gotten legitimate signatures. They were NOT review copies.... reviewers either get retail or unsigned developer builds that play on special reviewer/devkit consoles. Only Microsoft could have signed a developer build and released it into the wild, and it's the easiest way to catch pirates.
As for this Halo ODST leak? Could be the same thing.
The point is: back up your own stuff and stop downloading stuff from the internet.
Post by: jkoz on September 05, 2009, 07:52:00 PM
QUOTE(bobbler @ Sep 5 2009, 02:53 PM)
Well, I have to suggest you re-read the thread. I posted it up earlier about half way through.
They are blocking your live account for 2 weeks. This is not a console ban like previous infringements last wave (pre-stealthed firmware and the like).If you have been flagged you will not be able to connect to Live, you will have an email from [email protected] in your linked email account telling you of inappropriate content in your gamer profile (I am assuming this is just a generic message that they have not customised to include anything in particular in relation to playing pre-release date games - ODST or otherwise)
You're the only person I heard that from, didn't hear that from anywhere else. On another forum someone claimed they were instantly banned but did not specify if it was the console or account. What is your source?
Post by: Darkflame on February 03, 2020, 11:42:00 PM
Before ABGX all microsoft really had to do was just make a dump themselves, change the SS or add a few extra special bytes to any image and just upload it to p2p and newsgroups wand watch everyone ravage it like the plague.
Sit back for a few months let everyone feel like it's safe then bust out a can of ban hammer whoopazz.
Now unless you are the type who loves to pre games or be the first kid on the block to log in to live I think ixtreme and abgx360 has you pretty much got you covered.
If I can't pick it up at walmart, I won't bother.
This post has been edited by Darkflame: Today, 07:43 AM
Post by: DaShiZNiT on September 06, 2009, 01:14:00 AM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 5 2009, 08:16 PM)
Ayup.
Last year's bans were from leaks. Microsoft leaked "special versions" of the games into the scene, and people snatched them up and played them. They were different from the retail discs, and several significant factors pointed to them being developer builds that had gotten legitimate signatures. They were NOT review copies.... reviewers either get retail or unsigned developer builds that play on special reviewer/devkit consoles. Only Microsoft could have signed a developer build and released it into the wild, and it's the easiest way to catch pirates.
As for this Halo ODST leak? Could be the same thing.
The point is: back up your own stuff and stop downloading stuff from the internet.
BenJeremy
I miss when this site had some common sense. Can't wait to watch the massacre.
Post by: bobbler on February 04, 2020, 02:56:00 AM
QUOTE(jkoz @ Sep 6 2009, 02:52 AM)
You're the only person I heard that from, didn't hear that from anywhere else. On another forum someone claimed they were instantly banned but did not specify if it was the console or account. What is your source?
Because I have a banned live account at the minute after playing ODST. Here is the full copy of the email that they sent. NOTHING other than an ODST record being on my account has been changed, there is certainly nothing that is offensive and has been the same information on my account since launch day, I think they are just sending out this generic email copy to start with. I will expect a full ban, but hey no biggy I am certainly not going to be moaning about being blacklisted same as the console ban last time round, I will just break out one of the other 360's I have in the house for Live usage.
I also tried signing up for a new account on this console with success, it is not the same as the console ban from before.
Played the game on Sept 3rd - couple achievements unlocked IIRC
Was on Live 4th in the morning (GMT) and email and block came later that day.
Looking on the gamerstats on the Live blogger thing, I doubt there will be a major massacre or a large percentage of people coming whinging - there is only about 30-40 people listed on there as having played
QUOTE
[ DO NOT REPLY to this email address. It is not monitored. ]
This email is to notify you that your Xbox LIVE account privileges have been suspended due to inappropriate content in the profile for your gamertag. The inappropriate content was discovered in the Motto, Bio, Location, Name and/or Personal Picture.
Your profile was brought to the attention of the LIVE Enforcement Team through complaints filed by other Xbox LIVE users or in the course of our operation of the service. The LIVE Enforcement Team has reviewed the complaints and other evidence regarding this content and determined it violates the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and/or Code of Conduct. Because this content is in violation, the LIVE Enforcement Team has deleted the content and issued a temporary suspension.
You have been sent a message in the Xbox LIVE Dashboard notifying you when your suspension will end. During this suspension, you will not be able to log into Xbox LIVE. Your Xbox LIVE privileges will be automatically reinstated at the end of your suspension period.
Customer Support is not able to modify or provide any further details about your suspension. Additionally, the duration of your suspension is subject to change without prior notice by the LIVE Enforcement Team if we discover additional evidence of violations.
Microsoft expects that all customers abide by the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct provides guidelines for appropriate behavior while using the service. Your failure to abide by the Code of Conduct in the future may result in, among other things, longer suspension periods or cancellation of your account.
You can view the Xbox LIVE Code of Conduct from the Xbox LIVE Dashboard under Xbox LIVE Policies in Account Management, or by visiting http://www.xbox.com/live/codeofconduct.htm.You can view the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use by visiting http://www.xbox.com/live/termsofuse.htm.
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This post has been edited by bobbler: Today, 10:58 AM
Post by: Meethatguy on September 06, 2009, 09:08:00 AM
QUOTE(bobbler @ Sep 6 2009, 05:56 AM)
Because I have a banned live account at the minute after playing ODST. Here is the full copy of the email that they sent. NOTHING other than an ODST record being on my account has been changed, there is certainly nothing that is offensive and has been the same information on my account since launch day, I think they are just sending out this generic email copy to start with. I will expect a full ban, but hey no biggy I am certainly not going to be moaning about being blacklisted same as the console ban last time round, I will just break out one of the other 360's I have in the house for Live usage.
I also tried signing up for a new account on this console with success, it is not the same as the console ban from before.
Played the game on Sept 3rd - couple achievements unlocked IIRC
Was on Live 4th in the morning (GMT) and email and block came later that day.
Looking on the gamerstats on the Live blogger thing, I doubt there will be a major massacre or a large percentage of people coming whinging - there is only about 30-40 people listed on there as having played
Im sorry to let you know, but out of all the "generic" emails they do have, that is not one they would send for this.
You either pissed someone off, or had something that maybe YOU didnt think was offensive, but apparently someone didnt like it.
They are not going to send that email for running a bad back up and getting banned sorry.
Plus considering you are the only one on MANY MANY forums that got that email, common sense would tell those of us that still have some, that you got baned for exactly what it says int he email.
You had something someone didnt like, and it takes more then 1 complaint to get that 2 week ban.
So again, you either pissed the wrong people off or you had something that someone else saw as offensive.
Just because you dont think words are offensive doesnt mean others dont.
Post by: bobbler on February 04, 2020, 10:20:00 AM
QUOTE(Meethatguy @ Sep 6 2009, 04:08 PM)
Im sorry to let you know, but out of all the "generic" emails they do have, that is not one they would send for this.
You either pissed someone off, or had something that maybe YOU didnt think was offensive, but apparently someone didnt like it.
They are not going to send that email for running a bad back up and getting banned sorry.
Plus considering you are the only one on MANY MANY forums that got that email, common sense would tell those of us that still have some, that you got baned for exactly what it says int he email.
You had something someone didnt like, and it takes more then 1 complaint to get that 2 week ban.
So again, you either pissed the wrong people off or you had something that someone else saw as offensive.
Just because you dont think words are offensive doesnt mean others dont.
Not at all, I think you are wrong. There is nothing offensive in my profile I can guarantee that - all my profile says as my moto is Umpossible - hardly offensive (it's a reference to Ralph on the Simpsons years ago)
I have not chatted to anyone on live for probably about 12+ months, I rarely have my microphone plugged in and when I do its with real life friends.
We will see, when the game is better spread around then we will know for sure. All I know is I played ODST, signed off and now cannot sign on again and get a message telling me to read the mail from Xbox.
Just because you don't know the answer does not make any one elses opinion wrong, sorry to say fella.
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 06, 2009, 01:25:00 PM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 6 2009, 02:16 AM)
Ayup.
Last year's bans were from leaks. Microsoft leaked "special versions" of the games into the scene, and people snatched them up and played them. They were different from the retail discs, and several significant factors pointed to them being developer builds that had gotten legitimate signatures. They were NOT review copies.... reviewers either get retail or unsigned developer builds that play on special reviewer/devkit consoles. Only Microsoft could have signed a developer build and released it into the wild, and it's the easiest way to catch pirates.
As for this Halo ODST leak? Could be the same thing.
The point is: back up your own stuff and stop downloading stuff from the internet.
I think it's more likely that they were bad rips than MS infringing on their developer's copyrights and dilliberately distributing their intellectual property via unsecured and less-trackable (in terms of monitoring sales) means. I'm also not so sure that review copies are made to only work on dev kits; can you prove how this is true?
IOW, they'd be pissing off their devs, as well as breaking several laws by doing so. It *is* possible, however, that someone who worked at MS and had access to the stuff did the signing and uploading, but they should be easy enough to narrow down and be fired, so hard to say.
QUOTE(bobbler @ Sep 6 2009, 06:20 PM)
Not at all, I think you are wrong. There is nothing offensive in my profile I can guarantee that - all my profile says as my moto is Umpossible - hardly offensive (it's a reference to Ralph on the Simpsons years ago)
I have not chatted to anyone on live for probably about 12+ months, I rarely have my microphone plugged in and when I do its with real life friends.
We will see, when the game is better spread around then we will know for sure. All I know is I played ODST, signed off and now cannot sign on again and get a message telling me to read the mail from Xbox.
Just because you don't know the answer does not make any one elses opinion wrong, sorry to say fella.
FYI, LIVE is also filled with babies that get really pissed off when you're better than them. I've received bad feedback several times because I was doing "too good" at Gears or whatever. If enough people jump on you and complain, you'll get a temp ban whether they're telling the same lie or not (which is one of the reasons I think it's not a good idea to post your gamertag on forums).
Post by: kneehighspy on September 06, 2009, 02:47:00 PM
QUOTE(DaShiZNiT @ Sep 6 2009, 07:14 AM)
BenJeremy
I miss when this site had some common sense. Can't wait to watch the massacre.
it's been a very long time since common sense here has happened, we all miss it alot... i agree, it's gonna get worse.
Post by: echto on September 06, 2009, 02:50:00 PM
QUOTE(yatti @ Sep 5 2009, 05:45 PM)
I smell big permabans coming for lots of people.. Should probably consider yourself lucky if you got off with only 2 weeks.. Take it as a warning \ wouldn't put those burned copies back in etc..
Maybe not.... With the PS3 @ $299 now with free on-line multi player, maybe MS is afraid it's balls aren't as big as they were before and has decided to switch to some sort of 3 strikes your out philosophy vs. instant "go out and spend another $299 for something that doesn't have built in wi-fi and bluray'.
Post by: Alec on September 06, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
QUOTE(Meethatguy @ Sep 6 2009, 11:08 AM)
Im sorry to let you know, but out of all the "generic" emails they do have, that is not one they would send for this.
You either pissed someone off, or had something that maybe YOU didnt think was offensive, but apparently someone didnt like it.
They are not going to send that email for running a bad back up and getting banned sorry.
Plus considering you are the only one on MANY MANY forums that got that email, common sense would tell those of us that still have some, that you got baned for exactly what it says int he email.
You had something someone didnt like, and it takes more then 1 complaint to get that 2 week ban.
So again, you either pissed the wrong people off or you had something that someone else saw as offensive.
Just because you dont think words are offensive doesnt mean others dont.
My apologies, but what you're saying is not true.
bobbler: Go to billing.microsoft.com and edit your personal information. Under Company Name...what does it say?
Post by: leo5150 on September 06, 2009, 08:12:00 PM
QUOTE(echto @ Sep 6 2009, 09:50 PM)
Maybe not.... With the PS3 @ $299 now with free on-line multi player, maybe MS is afraid it's balls aren't as big as they were before and has decided to switch to some sort of 3 strikes your out philosophy vs. instant "go out and spend another $299 for something that doesn't have built in wi-fi and bluray'.
i dont know, i think the ps3 slim looks like warmed over dog crap, sony is the one worried they are eating big money on the ps3 and when microsoft decides to lower prices again sony cant afford to follow, and about the free internet look up the word you get what you pay for theres a picture of sonys face i own both systems and XBL vs PSN = yugo vs rolls royce, PSN being the yugo,
Post by: twicked on September 06, 2009, 09:54:00 PM
1. Poison Pill. While this one makes sense, I doubt that the distributor (Microsoft) would offer the poison pill. Just seems shady, is all, although why not. Now, someone said that most pirates would only download from a recognizes source; while this is true, not everyone uses bittorrent technology, especially with the TPB tracker offline most 'weekend' pirates are lost and trust most anything with a decent S:L ratio.
2. Bad Backup/Upload. I'm certain that there would be comments on the share of CRC checksum discrepancies. More experienced pirates would be able to sniff out some foul play. If there are several legitimate (albeit early) purchases of this game, would there not be several shares and at least one copy with complete resources of the iso?
Another few points I'd like to make is in regards to methods of detection. Firstly, I find it amusing (and scary) that Microsoft would only ban the account for playing illegitimate copies since the system must be security circumvented in order to achieve the result of running the copy in the first place. Why not console ID ban a proven modified console? (Which reminds me, devs at least would have their console IDs and serial #s submitted to microsoft on a permenant do not ban list, similar to those lists for beta testing the system updates... right? Could be wrong but that just screams logical to me.)
As far as region is concerned, Microsoft would not be able to ban based on this measure alone. While I'm unaware of whether or not this title specifically is region-encoded or free, I make the assumption that it is. It's too likely that a legitimate early adopter of the game could have shipped it to a relative outside that region who, for some reason, has a PAL XBOX 360 and television. While that wouldn't be the scenario for every instance, I'm sure one similar situation would most definitely cause an uproar of negative press and feedback. With that in mind, you are able to reflash the fw on the drives (modded) to spoof PAL regioning instead but what we've already learned is that Microsoft themselves have made reading that FW information is impossible through their own security methods.
So, if there are bannings then... why is not the question but how? Legitimate purchases are safe, copies are not... accounts aren't safe, consoles are?... Something tells me that poison pill makes the most sense but ... it just doesn't unless they simultaneously allowed for an early release (or prepared for the inevitability of one) and uploaded their poison pill at the same time. But then I can once again only assume that one of the legitimate adopters would CERTAINLY upload a proper kreon copy, wouldn't they?
I do not condone piracy, but I do enjoy discussing the methods which microsoft uses to ban users for doing so... if that makes any fucking sense, lol.
Post by: BenJeremy on September 06, 2009, 10:28:00 PM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Sep 6 2009, 03:25 PM)
I think it's more likely that they were bad rips than MS infringing on their developer's copyrights and dilliberately distributing their intellectual property via unsecured and less-trackable (in terms of monitoring sales) means. I'm also not so sure that review copies are made to only work on dev kits; can you prove how this is true?
IOW, they'd be pissing off their devs, as well as breaking several laws by doing so. It *is* possible, however, that someone who worked at MS and had access to the stuff did the signing and uploading, but they should be easy enough to narrow down and be fired, so hard to say.
FYI, LIVE is also filled with babies that get really pissed off when you're better than them. I've received bad feedback several times because I was doing "too good" at Gears or whatever. If enough people jump on you and complain, you'll get a temp ban whether they're telling the same lie or not (which is one of the reasons I think it's not a good idea to post your gamertag on forums).
The "bad" releases last year were definitely NOT retail builds, but developer builds, and developer builds NEVER get signed with Microsoft's private key.
The fact that obvious dev builds SOMEHOW managed to acquire a legitimate signature points to exactly one thing: Microsoft was involved, and it was an enforcement action.
Developers do NOT have access to the private key used to sign games for retail consoles, and any games or demos Microsoft signs goes through rigorous security measures from delivered content media to retail master. This is why there is only one Demo disc given with magazines... from "Official" Xbox Magazine, same deal - they prep the master content disc, Microsoft signs it and generates an Xbox 360 "Secure" DVD-ROM image to be stamped in a factory with the special equipment to create discs with the proper security features.
I explained this countless times last year, and for whatever reason, the logic seems to escape people here.
If you don't know who I am, then you haven't been in the scene long enough to even argue with me.
If you do know who I am, you'd understand that I have a pretty good idea of what is going on behind the scenes, and that I was a big part of the homebrew scene for the original Xbox.
To specifically answer your questions (as I did last time):
On pissing off the devs by distributing their game: Do you know of a single game released for the Xbox or Xbox 360 that hasn't been "scene released" on the game's release date - give or take a week? The "Devs" know their game will be pirated. Not only were the dev copies EASILY trackable, they resulted in a massive ban wave, and a huge database of consoles to ban randomly well into the future. The games were also incomplete, and served more as extended demos than complete games. It's not a hard sell to a developer to say "let's release an incomplete, less-than-perfect version of your game to track the pirates, ban them, and scare the other 90% of the pirates into buying your game legitimately." The simple fact is that those "bad rips" got distributed far less than their "retail-derived" release counterparts, and most copies ended up in trash bins. Any dev with half a brain can see there was a definite benefit to be had by working with Microsoft copyright enforcement on the case.
As for the review consoles: Like I said, some reviewers get spiffy "review/test consoles". These are Xbox 360 consoles that run unsigned code for test builds. You can probably buy one right now, for enough money, but they are mostly first-gen and very rare. Big magazines get them, and the PR guys have a slew of them for trade shows. Big dev houses get the majority, used by in-house game testers. Most reviewers have to wait until the game gets RTM'd or they get previewed in the dev's facilities. If reviewers regularly got retail-signed, security feature-stamped DVD-ROMs to review early copies, we'd have seen them from the beginning.
Let me restate this: The ISO images were media flagged only for manufactured, stamped, complete-with-security-features, Xbox 360 DVD-ROM discs. Do you have any clue what the cost is to make a limited run of these discs? Do you honestly think Microsoft would spend thousands of dollars signing and mastering a disc (yes, it costs them at least 4 figures, probably 5, just to get the IMAGE to master) and another $10 to 20 THOUSAND just to make a limited production run of DEV BUILDS to release to reviewers who are so pissant low on the PR totem pole that they don't even rate a review/test console?
The probability that this was anything but a ploy (and a very clever one) by Microsoft and the developers of those games to swat some pirates, take plenty of notes (leaving room for plenty of surprises in the long term) and scare the ever-loving crap out of a vast majority who were going to pirate the game already and get them to buy the game, approaches ZERO.
Post by: kgn340 on September 06, 2009, 11:16:00 PM
wow. like, total wow.
i think its time to write the made-for-tv movie.
(we'll get http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/to play the role of bill gates and http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001688/ for major nelson
).
Post by: leo5150 on September 06, 2009, 11:53:00 PM
Post by: SovietSlayer on September 07, 2009, 12:08:00 AM
QUOTE(swg1251 @ Sep 4 2009, 09:10 PM)
don't just mean 360 games either, I mean torrents in general.... how come no one ever gets caught?
i;ve got caught. My isp shut down my internet and i had to call them up. Then they even told me what i was reported of downloading. I ended up just saying my neighbor stole my wifi and they reactivated my internet. But ever since then i am scared to use bittorrent.
Post by: ssj4android on September 07, 2009, 12:33:00 AM
I'm not sure how much weight that holds.
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 07, 2009, 12:56:00 AM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 7 2009, 05:28 AM)
*snip for space*
Ok, I'm with you on most of that, but a few things I'm still pondering:
A) Cost - I believe your figures are outdated/wrong for manufacturing costs. I can goto Disc Makers and get 1,000 replicated DVDs for under $1/ea (no additional costs except shipping). I don't see what's stopping MS (or more likely, a developer wanting an earlier/better review) from spending a couple thousand bucks for something like that.
2) Your arguement about pissing off the devs makes a valid point - it's gonna get uploaded anyway, so why not upload a "trojan ban magnet"?
- Because pirates are more interested in getting the game free/bootleg than paying another $200 for a new console, $60 for the game, and them XBL membership frees
- The 'scene' is going to 'proper' it anyway, so you're not stopping piracy, you're just increasing your own unit sales to help make the installed base look larger than it is....to the developers!
- Just because these versions were identical to a dev build doesn't mean the dev didn't have it signed and pressed to send to some mags/reviewers. Within your "conspiracy theory" it seems plausible that reviewers are even encouraged to flash their drives and are sent their "review copies" on a burned disc (short runs - cheaper cost), and those particular ones were leaked.
d) The bigger "ban games" (according to a few threads on these and other forums at the time) were two other "major" games. To clarify - retail versions, two differeint "groups", and one got people banned and reason seems to be that it was a bad rip (go figure)
Post by: drkoolbeanz on September 07, 2009, 04:52:00 AM
Logic is failing how someone couldn't have leaked this...
Post by: bobbler on September 07, 2009, 05:00:00 AM
QUOTE(Alec @ Sep 7 2009, 01:16 AM)
My apologies, but what you're saying is not true.
bobbler: Go to billing.microsoft.com and edit your personal information. Under Company Name...what does it say?
Oh nice spot:
Company name: ACCOUNT IS PERMABANNED
Ah well
Post by: TheTerminator on September 07, 2009, 06:04:00 AM
QUOTE(ssj4android @ Sep 7 2009, 02:33 AM)
Haha, this is sooo stupid. You can see all the games that he's playing haven't been released yet.
Post by: linflas on September 07, 2009, 09:38:00 AM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 7 2009, 05:28 AM)
Developers do NOT have access to the private key used to sign games for retail consoles, and any games or demos Microsoft signs goes through rigorous security measures from delivered content media to retail master. This is why there is only one Demo disc given with magazines... from "Official" Xbox Magazine, same deal - they prep the master content disc, Microsoft signs it and generates an Xbox 360 "Secure" DVD-ROM image to be stamped in a factory with the special equipment to create discs with the proper security features.
I am actually quite impressed, a lucid fluent answer with rationale and support.
Not something seen here often, thanks for the nice read.
Although it seems to me that it was all intuitive, and people should have known better.
Thanks again for the great post.
Post by: BenJeremy on September 07, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Sep 7 2009, 02:56 AM)
Ok, I'm with you on most of that, but a few things I'm still pondering:
A) Cost - I believe your figures are outdated/wrong for manufacturing costs. I can goto Disc Makers and get 1,000 replicated DVDs for under $1/ea (no additional costs except shipping). I don't see what's stopping MS (or more likely, a developer wanting an earlier/better review) from spending a couple thousand bucks for something like that.
It costs a lot more to bring an Xbox 360 game disc to production. I didn't go into detail, but just to get an image signed, you are talking about considerable engineering time... these are high level people in Redmond, not offshore resources in India... it may seem stupid that it would "cost" a couple of engineers a day or two to sign an image, but there is more involved, including generating the "master image" and testing.... because... it then costs additional money to master a disc. This isn't a quick and easy "bake it and ship it" duplication operation. Every Xbox 360 game disc has special security features stamped into it. This doesn't come as cheap as a simple DVD-ROM. They are made in a particular factory, tightly controlled by Microsoft for security and quality control reasons. Just the cost of pressing an individual disc is more expensive, AFTER the initial mastering costs are figured in.
You comparison is about as valid as me comparing printing a PDF of a magazine, to what it costs to bring a limited run of that magazine off of a printing press. There are considerable "up front" costs involved before a single disc gets pressed - and that costs is usually absorbed by pressing thousands of discs. The cvost, per disc, goes up DRASTICALLY, as the numbers go down. The up front costs are several orders of magnitude higher for stamping a security-features-laden game disc, even forgetting quality and security issues.
For many reasons, only a handful (and I literally mean that you can count them on your fingers) of trusted reviewers ever get "alone time" with dev builds. Most previews are conducted in house with supervision by developers to explain bugs and shortcomings away so what should be a nice exercise in PR work doesn't turn into a disaster in the press. **IF** Microsoft or a publisher wanted to ship out a preview edition, it would only be in quantities of less than 10, at most, to a very, very selective audience.
Economically, it would make more sense to ship unsigned preview copies burned onto DVD-R and accompany them with review/test consoles, considering the limited number of reviewers that would actually be given an advance, incomplete build of a game.
It's about the scales of the economy of game disc production. It's just not worthwhile to ship a signed, stamped dev build. It never will be, even if it was ever deemed OK to ship untrusted reviewers a dev build to begin with.
QUOTE
2) Your arguement about pissing off the devs makes a valid point - it's gonna get uploaded anyway, so why not upload a "trojan ban magnet"?
- Because pirates are more interested in getting the game free/bootleg than paying another $200 for a new console, $60 for the game, and them XBL membership frees
- The 'scene' is going to 'proper' it anyway, so you're not stopping piracy, you're just increasing your own unit sales to help make the installed base look larger than it is....to the developers!
- Just because these versions were identical to a dev build doesn't mean the dev didn't have it signed and pressed to send to some mags/reviewers. Within your "conspiracy theory" it seems plausible that reviewers are even encouraged to flash their drives and are sent their "review copies" on a burned disc (short runs - cheaper cost), and those particular ones were leaked.
Please, put down the bong and re-read what you've just posted, then re-read what I posted.
A dev build on a burned disc is easy enough to do. It's either unsigned (and no threat to release on the internet, since it's useless on retail consoles) or if you sign it - it's going to have to have the media flag set to "DVD-R" media, which the two releases last year did not have. If you released a signed game media flagged for DVD-R, it would be all over the net in a heart beat, but more importantly, it would be HUGE news - remember the kiosk demo disc? That will NEVER happen again. Unsigned code is worthless to people with hacked consoles.... the game will simply not run unless you have an exploitable, chipped Xenon (which isn't terribly useful for new games or Live play). I already outlined the reasons why you'll NEVER see a dev build on a stamped Xbox 360 game disc (though we saw the images). Reviewers are not supposed to have hacked consoles, either, so no... sending a signed DVD-R to be used on a hacked console is not going to happen, either.
As for "proper" releases - how many people trusted them? Honestly, the pirate community isn't as large as the industry makes it out to be, and Microsoft knows this, or enforcement would wind up the scene community so tight they'd all move over to the Wii and give up on the Xbox 360. They do the bans about once a year, calculated to strike a bit of FUD into the scene. Databases of offenders are built, bans randomly distributed (some get off) to throw off efforts to track the cause. Because of that FUD, when something like Halo ODST comes along, and people start getting banned, and Major Nelson drops vague hinst that they "know" how to tell copies from originals (it's complete BS, they certainly know who's playing a LEAKED copy, though), people freak out and decide, at least for now, to go legit.
This latest antic only strengthens the case - they've moved on to perma-banning accounts. It's the next step in enforcement EXACTLY BECAUSE pirates sell those banned consoles on eBay and get new ones. This increases the FUD and reins in those people who don't want to risk their accounts just to play a AAA game a few weeks early. Spreading the idea that now (after 3 or 4 years??!) that they have a foolproof way to tell copies from originals (a ridiculously untrue statement) will make quite a few converts.
How many pirates are going to touch Halo ODST until after it's released now? I am willing to be a lot of them are willing to pay the money to buy the game when it comes out, rather than risk their Live accounts (or have mom and dad buy the game, rather than risk telling dad that he can't watch netflix because they got the family Live account permabanned)... or even just to play the game ASAP, instead of waiting for a "proper" they feel they can trust. Given the bad rips that have made it to the scene, I don't think there is a single release group that can claim to be foolproof, either.
QUOTE
d) The bigger "ban games" (according to a few threads on these and other forums at the time) were two other "major" games. To clarify - retail versions, two differeint "groups", and one got people banned and reason seems to be that it was a bad rip (go figure)
There certainly are bad rips. What does that have to do with what were OBVIOUSLY not retail builds of games? Bad rips can be detected, and Microsoft will continue probing the edges of the firmware hacks to see how they can, without netting innocents, find people using backups and punish them. It's a war, and wars are won and lost on information and disinformation, especially this one. Somebody finds an exploit, they hold that card close to the vest until they actually need it.... because once it's revealed, Microsoft will respond and close it. When methods are developed to determine somebody is running hacked firmware, Microsoft will figure out ways to inject the check into their consoles in ways that make it hard for hackers to spot and counteract.
Post by: BenJeremy on September 07, 2009, 03:16:00 PM
QUOTE(drkoolbeanz @ Sep 7 2009, 06:52 AM)
So let's get this straight. It's possible for a $199 360 to read m$ *signed* code, copy the entire thing to a say, 2002 pentium 4 pc, and be burned with a ma and pop dvd-burner... but the multi-billion dollar corporation that's m$ can't do shit without spending $xx,xxx.
Logic is failing how someone couldn't have leaked this...
Logic only applies when you have the facts and understand what is going on, which you clearly do not.
Reviewers don't use hacked consoles, but supposing they did, they'd still need SIGNED CODE. This is Xbox hacking 101 stuff. The original Xbox was peeled open by removing the requirement for unsigned code (the check was disabled in the BIOS). For the Xbox 360, outside of some exploitable systems or some expensive hardware, hacking was limited to modifying the firmware of the console's optical drive firmware so that a DVD-R could look, as far as the console could tell, like a "game disc" - which has security features stamped into it. The backup image incorporates information critical to reporting the proper responses to security challenges by the console.
The reason we don't see cheap pirate versions of games for sale out of car boots (trunks for us 'mericans) is because those security features are expensive to recreate, and require some specialized equipment. Harvy the Wonder Duplicator can make short runs of DVD-ROMs for any bozo... but he can't press Xbox 360 game discs. It is simply impossible for him to manufacture a disc that incorporates the security features queried by the console's optical drive.
When a disc is signed, part of what gets signed is the media flag. The media flag is what tells the console where the game can be run from... Game disc, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, flash, hard drive... those are flags in the game's executable header, and part of what is actually "signed". The signature is generated by a private key, and confirmed by a public key. It is quite large. Nobody ever figured out the original Xbox private key, after what? 8 years? If the signature is not legit (say, you tried to change the media flag to allow games to run from DVD-R), the game will not run on an Xbox 360.
The private signature key is protected by security that would impress the people that run Fort Knox and probably make Michael Bay's wildest imaginings pale in comparison. I doubt there is a network line running into the room (vault, more likely) holding the PC with the private key, and you probably aren't allowed to bring anything on your person - not a cell phone, USB keydrive, nothing into the room, except a disc for the media and a disc to save the master image to. Let's just say it isn't going to leak anytime soon, and access is very strictly controlled. Approval to sign anything is likely going to require several levels of upper management and possibly at least one pass through a review board. The code is scrutinized, media flags examined, and business cases must be presented. It is not a trivial process.
Just to get the media SIGNED is a big deal. It's an expensive deal. People do not work for free. Engineering time costs money. Management time costs money. Security time costs money. Things are scheduled. Preparations are made. Without spending a penny in materials, thousands are being spent in man hours. Got it? I understand that might have slipped your mind, but that's why you don't run a major corporation, nor will you ever even be a project manager at one. Time is money. Resources are money. Did I mention money?
Once generated, the image has to be mastered. There is a base cost involved... and as I explained before, it is several orders of magnitude more expensive than mastering a "plain old" DVD-ROM. The leakers can skip this - because reviewers are NOT the target for this product. Pirates are. No reviewer will touch that dev build. It will feature enough unique information that will never be a part of a retail or any other dev build. It only needs to logs a unique ID to work - one entered in as part of the build process, never to be used again. Assuming they were going to master the disc for stamping, the costs again are quite large, and even compared to Harvey the Wonder Duplicator's el cheapo $1 per disc cost for a run of 1000 DVD-ROMs, Microsoft's duplicators have higher costs from the outset... AFTER the expensive master disc creation, they still have a higher standard of quality control, the materials are more expensive, they pay their people more, and there are limited stamping machines that can handle the security features (I think I mentioned that requires specialized equipment, right? Expensive specialized equipment) which might mean halting production of some other game to stamp a limited run. The setup time costs money, the process takes money - look at that... more talk of money.
Do you remember where I mentioned that Microsoft doesn't expect a reviewer to have a hacked console? If anything, they expect them to have a review/test console, which doesn't require all that expensive stuff above I just mentioned - the code does not require signing, only a media flag set for DVD-R. Devs can skip petitioning Microsoft to sign an incomplete dev build if they really want to send out a dev build to reviewers, but again... as I mentioned above, that is EXTREMELY RARE, because little good comes from letting a press flack sit down with an unfinished game unless you really, really trust them. This is why developers have three guys standing around consoles offering up a preview version of a game at events like E3 or CES, keeping an eye on players and more importantly, on when their game messes up.
Oh, and about those unsigned dev builds media flagged for DVD-R? No problem for the devs... even if an image leaked, who can use it? Your retail console can't run unsigned code. Best security in the world, so why even RISK leaking an advanced copy of the game by having it signed? There's only one reason I can think of to justify signing that dev build... and it has nothing to do with reviewers.
Post by: red_ring_of_box on September 07, 2009, 03:41:00 PM
Post by: ssj4android on September 07, 2009, 04:52:00 PM
QUOTE(Intersect @ Sep 4 2009, 02:08 PM)
Their ap2.0 disc security is basically dvd-cops. The kernel and hypervisor code verifies the response after each challenge instead of verifying an entire sequence. The issue with that being if you do a single type 5 or 7 timing challenge, the position at which it starts reading is going to be the same, so your response is going to be pretty close to the same, so a stored response passes. Since the security sectors are aligned across the disc, they could issue challenges in sequences without verifying after each, but an entire sequence. Since the security sectors are aligned, and the drive doesn't read in both directions, there would be a sector skew. Hacked firmware or not, you would need to store every possible sequence, per game, and have a magical firmware that knows the sequence being issued to it in advance.
That's where ap2.5 comes in. The general consensus on that is if they do implement ap2.5 properly, it would be close to impossible to beat. Since they store the ap2.5 table in a file encrypted with your cpu key in the nand, you would have to dump every file and decrypt to be sure that yours is the same as any other one. If you mess this up once, you can be flagged for ban, as well as if you mess with this table.
Ps. Serves you right heh
So what happens when this is done on one of the current hacked firmwares? A detectable bad response?
I'd be curious as to if they're doing that with these pre-release games.
Post by: fahrenheit on September 07, 2009, 05:48:00 PM
I'm still having trouble deciphering theory from fact though.
Is it just an educated guess at this point that the leak couldn't be a ripping accident created by a member of the public who had access to THE legitimate retail build?
I'm sure post-release there will be plenty of people doing A/B comparisons to see what the differences are, but at this point, I'm not clear on whether its something that only MS themselves could have orchestrated, or just a hapless ripper who was so keen to be first to upload that he screwed up??
If this is an MS tactic (which seems fairly reasonable to me), don't they risk giving Live griefers alot of lead-time to come up with cheats and glitches that they could then use to disrupt matches from day 1?
On one hand, they get to sweep alot of pirates off the street prior to launch, but then they also end up giving early access to those who would want to subvert the Live service. Seems like a no-win situation from MS' point of view. Difficult thing to balance I imagine.
Post by: leo5150 on September 07, 2009, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: BenJeremy on September 07, 2009, 07:17:00 PM
QUOTE(leo5150 @ Sep 7 2009, 08:38 PM)
im just saying what eva said in the forum when ap2.5 was mentioned, http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=682786 he pretty much acts like he knows what to do if they implement it
Yeah, AP2.5 is probably not going to happen, for the same reason firmware checks haven't on those few models of optical drives that it can actually be done on (thanks, Microsoft, for preventing yourselves from a direct check of the firmware!).
Unless all of the potential Xbox 360 consoles can be checked reliably with a consistent method, it's highly unlikely they'd do it. AP2.5, like the FirmGuard feature is not implemented on all systems. The level of complexity to check it goes up drastically because of this. Putting the feature in surely doesn't bode well for hacking the next gen Microsoft console, but I think it's safe to say they won't be using it at all for retail games at this point.
More likely the inclusion will be more helpful for developing next gen security.
QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Sep 7 2009, 07:48 PM)
Is it just an educated guess at this point that the leak couldn't be a ripping accident created by a member of the public who had access to THE legitimate retail build?
I'm sure post-release there will be plenty of people doing A/B comparisons to see what the differences are, but at this point, I'm not clear on whether its something that only MS themselves could have orchestrated, or just a hapless ripper who was so keen to be first to upload that he screwed up??
That's the point of my long posts, it wasn't on accident. Those particular rips should never have existed as preview copies, test copies, or anything else. There is no reason to sign a dev build - EVER, and yet they were. Those dev builds were easy to track with Microsoft's Live infrastructure already in place, and required nothing to be set up - they didn't even need to update the dashboard software with new checks. The game's ID was the ideal way to track pirates who had it. No reviewers ever ran those images... Microsoft wouldn't have been too smart if they banned a reviewer for having a game disc they gave to them, would they?
Anything Microsoft says on the subject, btw, should be taken with a grain of salt. When Major Nelson speaks, the scene listens - but not guys like C4eva. They know most of it is disinformation meant to scare Live users straight.
Post by: fahrenheit on September 07, 2009, 08:41:00 PM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 8 2009, 01:17 PM)
That's the point of my long posts, it wasn't on accident. Those particular rips should never have existed as preview copies, test copies, or anything else. There is no reason to sign a dev build - EVER, and yet they were. Those dev builds were easy to track with Microsoft's Live infrastructure already in place, and required nothing to be set up - they didn't even need to update the dashboard software with new checks. The game's ID was the ideal way to track pirates who had it. No reviewers ever ran those images... Microsoft wouldn't have been too smart if they banned a reviewer for having a game disc they gave to them, would they?
Anything Microsoft says on the subject, btw, should be taken with a grain of salt. When Major Nelson speaks, the scene listens - but not guys like C4eva. They know most of it is disinformation meant to scare Live users straight.
Thanks, I just wanted to be sure this wasn't a possible end-user screwup being mistaken as something more sinister.
And I couldn't agree more about the pinch of salt. There is no question MS is well versed in disinformation when it comes to what they tell end users. We've had so many security holes plugged and yet there is always an explaination that never acknowledges them (no surprises there). This ones a classic - http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/01...ash-update.aspx
QUOTE
Earlier today the team pushed out a dashboard update over Xbox Live. There is nothing major in this one, it just addresses a few performance and stability issues.
That update was purely to patch a hole. 'Performance' and 'Stability' are more favorable terms than 'Security' and 'Vulnerability'.
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 07, 2009, 10:36:00 PM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 7 2009, 08:52 PM)
Please, put down the bong and re-read what you've just posted, then re-read what I posted.
Lol, I actually haven't used my bong in over a year now, but I digress
Please don't misunderstand my tone; I'm not trying to argue in the sense of "I'm right/you're wrong", but rather as "these are my questions to what you just said", as this thread as grown quite fascinating, imho.
Anyway, I can understand costs of manhours, and security, but once this master is made, the replication of it should cost the same (from that point) as any other DVD-9 (unless you were just referring to the costs of implementing the security features onto the master, and not the replicated run).
[The signing process] was incredibly informing; I had no idea it was *that* complex, but I suppose if it wasn't, we would've seen the private key of the last xbox by now (well, you know
).
Post by: BenJeremy on September 08, 2009, 06:48:00 AM
QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Sep 8 2009, 12:36 AM)
Lol, I actually haven't used my bong in over a year now, but I digress
Please don't misunderstand my tone; I'm not trying to argue in the sense of "I'm right/you're wrong", but rather as "these are my questions to what you just said", as this thread as grown quite fascinating, imho.
Anyway, I can understand costs of manhours, and security, but once this master is made, the replication of it should cost the same (from that point) as any other DVD-9 (unless you were just referring to the costs of implementing the security features onto the master, and not the replicated run).
[The signing process] was incredibly informing; I had no idea it was *that* complex, but I suppose if it wasn't, we would've seen the private key of the last xbox by now (well, you know
).Yeah, I caught that, it just took me a couple of reads to figure out what you were saying and threw out a little harmless snark your way, heh.
As for the duplication costs, I'm not entirely sure the master with security features is duplicated on the same equipment as a regular DVD-9, but even if that were the case, the plant that stamps game discs is going to have a lot more expense in quality measures and materials. Everything is going to be certified and at every step, costs rise. It's a sure thing the master cannot be replicated by non-Microsoft duplicator (same goes for Sony's and Nintendo's protection schemes - though Sony's PSX scheme was eventually replicated by the Gameshark/Datel people). I would guess the duplication equipment is somewhat differently spec'd from the standard stuff.
All that aside, though, there aren't any real reasons to release a signed dev build to reviewers. Too many reasons that falls under the category "bad idea", and given the stuff missing from the ban wave titles from last year, I don't think anybody at those dev houses would let a reviewer touch them. The last thing a dev or publisher wants is a scathing review to sink their product, and that's happened on more than a few games devs have permitted a reviewer to "preview" supervised in house; I can't imagine what damage could be done when a reviewer got his hands on an unfinished title alone. All the people who might have had a reason to see a preview dev build were internal, and had review/test or devkit consoles at their disposal.
There's just no reason to sign a dev build.
Post by: HotKnife420 on September 08, 2009, 08:43:00 AM
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 8 2009, 01:48 PM)
Yeah, I caught that, it just took me a couple of reads to figure out what you were saying and threw out a little harmless snark your way, heh.
As for the duplication costs, I'm not entirely sure the master with security features is duplicated on the same equipment as a regular DVD-9, but even if that were the case, the plant that stamps game discs is going to have a lot more expense in quality measures and materials. Everything is going to be certified and at every step, costs rise. It's a sure thing the master cannot be replicated by non-Microsoft duplicator (same goes for Sony's and Nintendo's protection schemes - though Sony's PSX scheme was eventually replicated by the Gameshark/Datel people). I would guess the duplication equipment is somewhat differently spec'd from the standard stuff.
I used to work for a local disc manufacturer (Cinram) and when I stopped, we were making DVDs and UMDs (PSP games), mostly. IIRC, the UMDs were made in a different section, but I was told it was just for "efficiency"... which I suppose could also mean a "specialty process", though that's kinda reaching (not like I was someone important there, so I wasn't required to know, anyway).
The QA process at our plant was supposedly "better" than a lot of others, but it surprised me how it's done. I don't recall the order off the top of my head, but in the room outside of the "moulding room" there's a station with several monitors and a couple DVD players with something always playing. I'm assuming they're only checking for hard errors and not minor glitches, but the attendent is watching several movies already, so it's not as though they need to tremendously focus on any particular one. Once the discs leave the moulding room they goto the "WIP Room" to be put in spindles of 100 and boxed. Random discs will be "spot checked" under a light to look for "visible disc errors". The rest of the QA checks are packaging related. Since I wasn't a QA or a member of mangement, there's possibly another step I'm unaware of, but to me it always seemed like a way to check that's not really checking (I'm a fan of measuring disc quality and readability with digital tools).
Another thing I did learn from working there was that duplication refers to burning the data onto recordable media, wheras replication is the "moulded from scratch" way, and the only way to implement the security features we've been discussing, etc etc (I'm sure you're well aware; just adding the info for others reading the thread).
QUOTE(BenJeremy @ Sep 8 2009, 01:48 PM)
All that aside, though, there aren't any real reasons to release a signed dev build to reviewers. Too many reasons that falls under the category "bad idea", and given the stuff missing from the ban wave titles from last year, I don't think anybody at those dev houses would let a reviewer touch them. The last thing a dev or publisher wants is a scathing review to sink their product, and that's happened on more than a few games devs have permitted a reviewer to "preview" supervised in house; I can't imagine what damage could be done when a reviewer got his hands on an unfinished title alone. All the people who might have had a reason to see a preview dev build were internal, and had review/test or devkit consoles at their disposal.
There's just no reason to sign a dev build.
Makes sense; especially about early reviews harming a product more than they help it. I remember 'back in the day' reviwers would write about playing games that were being developed and being totally excited, and anything wrong was considered 'ok' because the game wasn't ready for shelves yet, anyway. Today, however, we have people that complain about 'betas' being buggy and some games that even ship broken (Bully), so I can appreciate they'd want to do everything possible to minimize that (as well as uphold the system's security at every opportunity).
Thanx for letting me pick your brain
Post by: pogi1100 on September 08, 2009, 09:28:00 PM
QUOTE(snes_83 @ Sep 4 2009, 04:03 PM)
Any time I have a incomplete .rar, WinRAR says it's missing a piece, and won't extract. Of course, if you use .par2 files to repair, it fixes the incomplete .rar file, and everything works as normal.
What? You can just rename the .rar file so it extracts properly you know...
For example, if "whatever.part02.rar" is missing, you can just rename the "whatever.part03.rar" to "whatever.part02.rar" and rename the remaining files accordingly manually, or by batch. In ODST's case, "odst.part67.rar" (this isn't the real name BTW) of the whole pack is missing, so you can just rename "odst.part68.rar" to "odst.part67.rar" and the remaining files accordingly so it will extract properly.
Get it?
This post has been edited by pogi1100: Sep 9 2009, 04:30 AM
Post by: pogi1100 on September 08, 2009, 09:43:00 PM
QUOTE(bobbler @ Sep 6 2009, 02:56 AM)
Because I have a banned live account at the minute after playing ODST. Here is the full copy of the email that they sent. NOTHING other than an ODST record being on my account has been changed, there is certainly nothing that is offensive and has been the same information on my account since launch day, I think they are just sending out this generic email copy to start with. I will expect a full ban, but hey no biggy I am certainly not going to be moaning about being blacklisted same as the console ban last time round, I will just break out one of the other 360's I have in the house for Live usage.
I also tried signing up for a new account on this console with success, it is not the same as the console ban from before.
Played the game on Sept 3rd - couple achievements unlocked IIRC
Was on Live 4th in the morning (GMT) and email and block came later that day.
Looking on the gamerstats on the Live blogger thing, I doubt there will be a major massacre or a large percentage of people coming whinging - there is only about 30-40 people listed on there as having played
Another possible explanation of how this happened to you is that your friends saw you playing ODST and they were jealous, they reported you for various reasons and you got banned.
Post by: bobbler on September 09, 2009, 10:02:00 AM
QUOTE(pogi1100 @ Sep 9 2009, 04:43 AM)
Another possible explanation of how this happened to you is that your friends saw you playing ODST and they were jealous, they reported you for various reasons and you got banned.
That would be very daft. Considering my entire friends list is made up of either people who are family or people who are real friends (you know, IRL) outside of Xbox - it's how we all hooked up in the first place, Live just happens to be a place we get to shoot each other (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I very much doubt I would have had anything other than a request for a copy or asked for if it is any good from one of them.
Nice idea though...
Post by: nha on September 10, 2009, 07:35:00 AM
Post by: pogi1100 on September 10, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
QUOTE(nha @ Sep 10 2009, 06:35 AM)
Always happens with MS's big game releases - usually a Halo title.
I didn't get banned for playing Halo Wars early (though I got banned here for 2 weeks for saying it was leaked), but I won't know until the next ban wave I guess...
Post by: xygan on September 11, 2009, 07:24:00 AM
Post by: 40_ounce on September 11, 2009, 10:14:00 AM
QUOTE(xygan @ Sep 11 2009, 06:24 AM)
The easiest way to handle bans for an early game is just to unplug the ethernet, unplug your 360 for 30 sec (it doesn't have an internal battery so it loses the time) then plug it back in.. viola! Now your xbox has the date waaay wrong (yr 2000 if I think) so MS has no way of knowing when it was actually played, b/c you could have just taken it to a friends & not logged back in to live. The xbox auto acquires the time via live, so no worries. Just stay off of live until the street date, and no problems. I work where I often get games early and play before the street date and always do this just b/c I'm paranoid.
Post by: BoNg420 on September 12, 2009, 07:33:00 AM
According to UPS tracking information it will arrive on the 16th. So I will have the game 6 days early.
So if you order a copy today you would probably have it by Thursday next week!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16874103124
They currently have it for $56.99 and free shipping, also they are tax free for most states!
This post has been edited by BoNg420: Sep 12 2009, 06:22 PM
Post by: daman22 on September 13, 2009, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Supercheese on September 14, 2009, 08:01:00 PM
QUOTE(daman22 @ Sep 13 2009, 11:06 AM)
they deserve to get banned... just wait till its released
Who, people who got the game a few days early from Newegg?
Post by: 40_ounce on September 15, 2009, 06:54:00 AM
QUOTE(Supercheese @ Sep 14 2009, 07:01 PM)
Who, people who got the game a few days early from Newegg?
Yeah the people that got it early legalyshould be banned?????
Come on you know he or she thinks the people that got it illigally should be banned......
Post by: timstim on September 15, 2009, 10:59:00 PM
QUOTE(d-range @ Sep 4 2009, 01:28 AM)
The problem with that theory is that while they might be able to detect discrepancies that could be a sign of a modded console or a backup disc, they cannot act on it unless they're 100% sure the box is really hacked. The negative publicity they'd get when they started banning legit boxes is much more harmful than the piracy itself.
i dont know where you have been but they do it all the time,last ban wave lots of legit players were ban some of them being reversed but it did not hurt there sales even in the least.
Post by: Alcarne on September 17, 2009, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: RMF on September 18, 2009, 04:41:00 AM
QUOTE(Alcarne @ Sep 17 2009, 07:42 PM)
So has anyone been banned who played the new English release that came out about 3 days ago?
I don't think so. Not yet anyway. There's one guy in this thread who thinks that his account has been banned for playing ODST but judging from the automated email that he received from MS it would seem unlikely to be the reason for the ban.
Anyway, it's not really MS' style to go out all guns blazing firing off instabans like there's no tomorrow. They usually sit back and collect as much data as they see fit and ban en masse a little further down the line. We'll just have to wait and see.
Post by: Alec on September 19, 2009, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: bobbler on September 20, 2009, 03:30:00 AM
QUOTE(Alec @ Sep 19 2009, 09:00 PM)
So, for those who were suspended, have you been unsuspended like the dashboard message said you would be?
Nope, ban is not going to be lifted. Spoke to customer support last night as it was still banned. Confirmed its from playing Halo ODST on their forum too, they also state on there against other cases similar that they all received this "generic" message of profile/content suspension rather than a message saying its because you played ODST. When signing in now it just says there is a problem with the payment card, regardless of the card used being valid and adding a second valid card says the same too. It appears they have used a generic process to do the blocking of the account rather than a ban-wave like they did a year or so back. Maybe that is a good thing from a firmware point of view? Lack of real detection of copies, but only against this one particular build of the game which I just feel sure was a "plant" of some type.
360 hardware is not banned though, have signed up for a new Live account on the same machine and processed it fine, even with the same details on the account bar the email address (I changed this because my old one was against hotmail which I rarely check these days)
Certainly not going to be whining about it (which was not my intention of my post earlier), just really posted on here for info in case it was helpful to anyone else.
Post by: CreepingJesus on September 21, 2009, 06:27:00 AM
QUOTE(conners @ Sep 4 2009, 11:09 AM)
I`ve not replied on here for a long time but for all those people who say that adding a unique ID to each game isnt possible. Sony did it on the PS2. DNAS data. I used to backup my games, then had to put a dnas read disc in the PS2, then the original disc, it would then display the data on screen. You then took the code and injected the code into the iso. So when you think that PS2 could do it all those years ago, then clearly MS can do it now. This allowed you to play online PS2 network games.
you nearly had me..
CODE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNAS