Post by: Xbox-Scene on November 11, 2008, 08:26:00 PM
Microsoft Confirms New Xbox 360 Console Banning Posted by XanTium | November 11 23:34 EST | News Category: Xbox360 |
| From majornelson.com: Quote
Report your Xbox LIVE status: forums.xbox-scene.com |
Post by: Halcyon-X12 on November 11, 2008, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: TerminatR on November 11, 2008, 10:38:00 PM
"Microsoft has taken action against a small percentage of Xbox 360 consoles that have been illegally modified in order to play pirated games."
This poorly worded sentence has two possible meanings:
The meaning I think they are trying to convey is that they are banning a small percentage (ie ALL modded consoles) of the entire Xbox 360 fleet.
The other possible meaning is that microsoft is choosing to only ban a small percentage of the total number of modded 360's, which would imply they are leaving some modded consoles alone.
Maybe I think about these things too much...
Post by: BigSteel on November 11, 2008, 10:41:00 PM
They must mean that they are banning modded consoles which represent a small portion of all xbox 360's (modded and unmodded).
Post by: ExitiumEx on November 11, 2008, 09:39:00 PM
Post by: saosin37 on November 11, 2008, 10:14:00 PM
We can't be pissed at microsoft for banning people. When you mod your 360 you should expect your console to be banned at some point.
Post by: 1ic1 on November 11, 2008, 10:28:00 PM
can you get banned for doing the x-clamp fix?
seems everyone is getting banned for no apparent reason
QUOTE
Same thing has happened to me tonight. I went to sign onto live and it says I'm banned I call up support and after having them be extremely rude to me I was told that my system has been modded and my console has been banned because of it. I told them that I did not mod my console, I don't even know how, but my system is completly legit the only time it would have been "opened" as they put it was when I sent in because of the RRoD. He kept saying it was my fault and that I opened my console and modded it and they don't tolerate it. No matter how much I explained to him that I did not he kept repeating the same thing and would not help any further.
I called back and got a MUCH nicer person who told me for the past 5-6 hours they've bee getting the same calls and are looking into the problems and to keep checking the website for updates but of course I see nothing online. Hopefully this all gets resolved soon.
This post has been edited by 1ic1: Nov 12 2008, 06:31 AM
Post by: utopaline on November 11, 2008, 10:39:00 PM
Utopaline
Post by: majik655 on November 11, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
QUOTE(TerminatR @ Nov 11 2008, 11:14 PM) 
I'm curious about this statement - it's ambiguous.
"Microsoft has taken action against a small percentage of Xbox 360 consoles that have been illegally modified in order to play pirated games."
This poorly worded sentence has two possible meanings:
The meaning I think they are trying to convey is that they are banning a small percentage (ie ALL modded consoles) of the entire Xbox 360 fleet.
The other possible meaning is that microsoft is choosing to only ban a small percentage of the total number of modded 360's, which would imply they are leaving some modded consoles alone.
Maybe I think about these things too much...
Umm yeah you are thinking too much.. looking waaay deeper than you need. This response always comes from M$ after or durring a ban.
QUOTE(1ic1 @ Nov 12 2008, 12:12 AM)
i know this is a dumb question.
can you get banned for doing the x-clamp fix?
seems everyone is getting banned for no apparent reason
You are kidding right? That is impossible.
But if you read a bit more... like on this website and others you will find what the likely reason is.
(it is kinda pointing to a specific game that was played/released....just what it seems like as of now...little early to tell until alot more info is given from people being banned.)
Post by: ILLusions0fGrander on November 11, 2008, 11:21:00 PM
even if it were as small as three percent - thats half a million bans...
I wonder what the real number is - and for people with originals who backup and just made a mistake that sucks, but for pirates getting early releases, well, Nelson says it best: haha.
Post by: tomgreen99200 on November 12, 2008, 12:57:00 AM
This post has been edited by tomgreen99200: Nov 12 2008, 09:04 AM
Post by: g8crapachino on November 12, 2008, 02:06:00 AM
QUOTE(ExitiumEx @ Nov 12 2008, 06:23 AM)
All banning does it give some unlucky kid a dud 360 for Christmas ... way to go M$
Yeah...sure....that's all it does. You've obviously got the whole thing figured out. You're a winner and a genius. Way to go.
Post by: Guidor on November 12, 2008, 01:43:00 AM
Post by: Maverick-DBZ- on November 12, 2008, 01:48:00 AM
Post by: Guidor on November 12, 2008, 02:08:00 AM
This post has been edited by Guidor: Nov 12 2008, 10:10 AM
Post by: soopahfly on November 12, 2008, 03:38:00 AM
All these people whinging about the price of games, $40-$50 is not expensive. Lets do a direct comparison with the UK, substitute your $ for £ and you have the cost. That's right, $80-$100.
Post by: Guidor on November 12, 2008, 03:55:00 AM
QUOTE(nha @ Nov 12 2008, 12:05 PM)
"keep gameplay safe and secure for our community" lol that's the funniest line ever!
I'm shocked that MS have done this, when they're in a race against the wii and ps3 to be the top games console, blocking a percentage no matter how small has got to harm their profits.. its not like the old xbox, these banned guys are still paying for live etc so money is being lost.
Guidor - I agree with what u say, however think how many more people would buy a game if it were the same price as a DVD, another luxury. I always purchase DVD's, but always think twice abour games - you have to be so alert these days to think will the game last long enough and does it have the value I paid for.
They're looking at the bigger picture. I will put money on that there is a far smaller percentage of people using pirated games on the 360 than the Xbox purely down to the fact that you risk losing a huge side of what makes the console great. It sends out a message that if you try to screw us then we'll screw you back. If somebody was trying to rob from you would you not do the same?
Games are more expensive than DVD's but they also have a higher resale value or trade in value. Most people will buy a game and play it. If they love it they'll keep it but many including myself will later down the line trade it in against the new game and this offsets the cost. That's not really the point though as it's unfair to compare against a DVD. A DVD is a secondary source of income for a movie house. The film will have hopefully taken money at the box office and the DVD of the film is a secondary source or revenue. The only way I could compare that now to a game is the re-released Xbox Live titles.
Post by: stezo2k on November 12, 2008, 03:56:00 AM
Post by: Guidor on November 12, 2008, 03:57:00 AM
QUOTE(phrozenice @ Nov 12 2008, 12:27 PM)
I don't agree with that. Tha's like saying 'If you can't afford food, go and die'! Just because someone cannot afford to buy the game doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to play it. The developers/publishers lose nothing since he/she would never have bought it in the first place anyway! In my country there are like 3 shops that sell games, the variety is like 5 titles per year, and each costs... wait for it.... $200!
Superb! you're now compare a life essential to a computer game?! How old are you? 12? 13? What a joker! Post by: phunk on November 12, 2008, 03:58:00 AM
QUOTE(phrozenice @ Nov 12 2008, 12:27 PM)
I don't agree with that. Tha's like saying 'If you can't afford food, go and die'! Just because someone cannot afford to buy the game doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to play it. The developers/publishers lose nothing since he/she would never have bought it in the first place anyway! In my country there are like 3 shops that sell games, the variety is like 5 titles per year, and each costs... wait for it.... $200!
Unfortunately, not really a good analogy - food is a necessity, whereas videogames are not.
Either way, getting banned does suck, but as umpteen folk have said, when you flash your drive you know the risks.
Post by: iD4rK on November 12, 2008, 03:58:00 AM
BTW, If I had my console pirated, I'd expect the ban someday.
Post by: Guidor on November 12, 2008, 04:22:00 AM
QUOTE(phrozenice @ Nov 12 2008, 12:48 PM)
Yea, the analogy was kinda out there. But I don't think anyone should be denied anything because of cost, as long as the person providing it is not being hurt in the process. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against piracy (based on my line of work), if someone can afford it, he should be made to pay for it by all means possible. The grey area is what to do about those who cannot afford it. Do they not deserve to kill locust?
There's no grey area at all other than in your head. So is it Ok for me to walk into a showroom and take the key to a car I fancy then drive off with it? If you want to download and use pirated games then fine it's no skin off my nose but for anybody to try and justify it or put it back on Microsoft are deluded fools.
Post by: partypt on November 12, 2008, 04:34:00 AM
Everyone has a point of view in this matter, some say they agree with this ban wave because they are against piracy and people should pay for the games, so game companys continues to make games and to improve the quality of the games and the entertainment continues. - Its a very valid point of view because if the companys dont make a profit they stop making games and everyone loses including the people that modded their consoles, so there is not much to counter argue this point of view, but if anyone has another idea on this matter ok
And some say they dont agree with this ban because people should have the right to play backups, some say the same but really its because they download and play games for free and they have the right too, they know the risks and they prefer that way, not everyone has high pay jobs and its not easy to get that job.. I think no one should criticize others for not earning that same money as they do.. its a natural thing for people to try to get the same conditions as others..
Well I just one say that in my opinion its not very smart for Microsoft to do that ban wave because lets face it, if it was impossible to modd the xbox 360 perhaps Microsoft wouldnt sell as many consoles as they sold.. And the people that has a modded console and wants to play on xbox live has to pay the live fee.. So its not that bad for Microsoft.. They still make a lot of money, of course they could make even more.. but they also can make less now they are in the competition with ps3 and wii..
Well just to say that few words
Regards.
Post by: orangpelupa on November 12, 2008, 04:49:00 AM
lol thats weird, is playing backups make the community not safe and insecure?
i think that sentece will more fit is there something like "gameshark" for x360 and people use it online, or editing offline game data to be used online.
btw IMO, copying is not the same as theft.
copy = you got the thing you copy and the original thing not loss.
theft = you got the thing you steal and the original thing is loss.
but yes, piracy is not a good thing, the game devs and game industry need money to live and make another great games for us to play
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on November 12, 2008, 04:49:00 AM
Theres no opinion to this statement, its fact. You break the ToS, they have the right to ban you. I would do the exact same thing if i ran a company. You don't have to like MS, you can whine all you like, but you bought their console and you intended to play on their online service, so you have to play by their rules
Post by: cory1492 on November 12, 2008, 05:34:00 AM
Post by: Shod on November 12, 2008, 05:47:00 AM
QUOTE(kesava108 @ Nov 12 2008, 01:58 PM)
since i stopped pirating (rrod and first ban wave simultaneously) i really get value out of the games I buy
i used to have every new game early, play a little then meh.. next
Yeah same here. Used to have hundreds of (copied) games on the PS1 - any new release got copied, played for 5 mins, then stuck on the shelf and forgotten.
I havent copied games since the PS1 days and now each game I buy gets finished to completion (and more for the achievements). Much more fun!
Out of interest, if you get your console banned do they kick your account back to silver or does it stay gold? I know they dont ban your account, but was just interested in wether you lost your gold sub for violation of the wots-its?
Post by: no0ne on November 12, 2008, 06:15:00 AM
Post by: xTKxhom3r on November 12, 2008, 06:44:00 AM
Post by: pholly on November 12, 2008, 06:46:00 AM
QUOTE(xTKxhom3r @ Nov 12 2008, 03:20 PM)
OK PEOPLE!!!! stop this stupid ass fighting over is it right to get banned or not it doesnt matter the point is were getting banned so now we need to figure out how they are figuring out we have modded firmware we need to figure out a way to get around the ban not fucking fight over who's right and who's wrong
No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.
Post by: imaphaggit on November 12, 2008, 07:02:00 AM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 09:22 AM)
No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.
Im taking it you bought your Xbox360 right?
So, you can buy from thieves but can't play with them?
Interesting.
Post by: saosin37 on November 12, 2008, 07:07:00 AM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 09:22 AM)
No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.
As he sits high and mighty atop his glorious thrown he looks down upon us lowly pirates and casts us away. I will never pirate again because of this mans earnest and honest heart.
Post by: mrgreaper on November 12, 2008, 07:16:00 AM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 02:22 PM)
No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.
ah yes because all of us are evil pirates, piracy is not the only reason to mod ur 360 moron and if your console is not modded why the hell are you here?
Post by: pholly on November 12, 2008, 07:19:00 AM
QUOTE(mrgreaper @ Nov 12 2008, 03:52 PM)
ah yes because all of us are evil pirates, piracy is not the only reason to mod ur 360 moron and if your console is not modded why the hell are you here?
Well, if you're not modding to play pirated games then you wouldn't be using a custom firmware to begin with. It's only for piracy, very few actually use it for true backups. As for why I'm here it's simple this is a good site for xbox news, this site isn't for piracy even though that's the reason there are so many users here.
Post by: phunk on November 12, 2008, 07:26:00 AM
Cars (and lets face it, most other consumer goods) are ridiculously overpriced - do these people see carjacking as ok? No, didn't think so.
The basic upshot is, MS want you to pay for the games that developers spent 2-3 years making. I dont think that's too much to ask, considering that is their revenue stream.
Pricing itself is another issue; I agree that £40-£50 for shovelware is a rip-off, but no one is holding a gun to your head to make you buy and/or play games. Its a choice you can make. Dont want to pay? Then dont play. Simple.
Now if like me (and many others), your 360 has chewed the shit out of your discs, then I can definately see a a valid point in being able to legally make backups and play them. The problem is, that allows all the moochers and freeloaders to play copies of games they have no intention of paying for. Unfortunately its a double-edged sword. If MS had the decency to replace discs that have been ruined by their shitty dvd drives, then the whole 'backup' issue becomes a moot point. All you'd have to do would be return the disc for a replacement, and problem solved!
Post by: pholly on November 12, 2008, 07:37:00 AM
Post by: C_Ripper on November 12, 2008, 08:12:00 AM
I have a modded DVD drive, but I also own over 20 360 games all purchased at $60. Furthermore, I've only got a modded DVD drive now that I'm on my THIRD 360 console because of hardware failures. There's a couple games here and there that I've played copies of, but for the most part my games are purchased. If MS feels they can put out a product that costs $400 (the price has come down now, but not when I bought mine) with a life expectancy of about a year, then I feel I have the right to copy a few games here and there to offset the cost.
In summary, Pholly is a douche.
Post by: Fantmx on November 12, 2008, 08:23:00 AM
QUOTE(mrgreaper @ Nov 12 2008, 04:07 PM)
come back when your xbox has put a pretty circle in 3 £40 games and made them unplayable or when your little brother has decided your discs make a nice frisbie. then tell me modified firmware is only for pirates
or what about my mate his drive failed he was out of warenty (before they extended it) we fixed it by spoofing a drive from a banned system he brought cheap, he has never used a backup and even refuses to use images of games that come early when he has a preorder for the same game, a right goody two shoes....but wait he has modified firmware ...OMG hes a pirate...burn him! burn him!
ok so your here for the xbox news and you dont modify your firmware well then this is none of your concern move on, no need to try to be everyones moral compass
QUOTE(darkrain @ Nov 12 2008, 04:38 PM)
I think it would be better if M$ spent more time on sorting out the RROD problems on consoles first. Banning people with modded consoles must take time, effort and money to find a way to detect them. I'm sure this could be better spent solving the problems with the console first.
I am on my second 360 now due to the RROD problem. The first on was fixed and was fine for some time then all went bad again and it has massive video corruption with coloured lines and blocks all over the screen. M$ told me the console was now out of warrenty. So I either pay them to fix it or buy another console. I bought a new new one with a HDMI port on it.
I feel that M$ owe me for the first one, and seeing as they have not changed the console design to much effect to combat the RROD.
If this was a car with a problem with the brakes they would be a full recall and the problem solved for free, not just patched up and sent back.
Post by: headonism on November 12, 2008, 08:27:00 AM
QUOTE(C_Ripper @ Nov 12 2008, 04:48 PM)
First of all, Pholly is a douche.
I have a modded DVD drive, but I also own over 20 360 games all purchased at $60. Furthermore, I've only got a modded DVD drive now that I'm on my THIRD 360 console because of hardware failures. There's a couple games here and there that I've played copies of, but for the most part my games are purchased. If MS feels they can put out a product that costs $400 (the price has come down now, but not when I bought mine) with a life expectancy of about a year, then I feel I have the right to copy a few games here and there to offset the cost.
In summary, Pholly is a douche.
what is this guy on about........ how can he condone copying games, just think of the peolpe who make and get paid from games sales, microsoft are just trying to protect them, as for backups we shpuld be able to play burn and play them if we own the original game as we don want them to get damaged, i think microsoft should repect that right, as for banning ANYONE playing a game early or well b4 release are just downright idiots and microsoft should activley ban these people!!!!
Post by: brandogg on November 12, 2008, 08:52:00 AM
Post by: DeMoN_DARREN on November 12, 2008, 09:08:00 AM
Although the developer isn't happy with either situation, they would prefer a used game as it means someone has bought the game in the first place
Post by: phunk on November 12, 2008, 09:20:00 AM
QUOTE(domduv87 @ Nov 12 2008, 05:46 PM)
BEST COMMENT EVER.
GET OFF THE SITE!
This is xbox-scene, not piracy-scene, therefore users are allowed to discuss any xbox related news and issues, not just moan about Live bans. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Lay off the glue please. Its obviously affecting your judgement.
Post by: SniperXx on November 12, 2008, 09:27:00 AM
I am willing to bet most try to play online first thing when they get those as well.
Post by: SniperXx on November 12, 2008, 09:53:00 AM
QUOTE(DaddyLongLegs @ Nov 12 2008, 01:10 PM)
Yeah but I bet playing it online didn't matter either. The 360 keeps a log of every game you've played. A lot of people saying they played Gears of War 2 but with the ethernet unplugged are missing the point. This isn't the days of the original XBox. Microsoft has banned people in the past who never took their copied games online.
If you have a log on your 360 that you played Gears of War 2 well before release, you're banned, simple as that. I know this has not been proven but it makes the most sense to me.
Yeah good points, but the fact that alot probably tried to go online is even more proof lol.
Post by: dcdeac on November 12, 2008, 10:07:00 AM
Banning people from Live is a great way of handling it. They're not bricking your console, and they're not hunting you down and sending cops to your house.
They're spending millions on making Live a service that even this Windows-hating Unix guy appreciates. This isn't like the Xbox 1 where great homebrew software gave modding a legitimate side. This is just kids pirating games, end of story.
What you all should be posting on this thread is a huge Thank You for Microsoft not following the RIAA model of trying to sue you or pass a law to fine you $60 for every game they have you on record for pirating.
Post by: vinman on November 12, 2008, 10:12:00 AM
Vinman
Post by: BoNg420 on November 12, 2008, 10:32:00 AM
QUOTE(utopaline @ Nov 12 2008, 02:23 AM)
good for them!!! keep banning, if you wanna Mod go right ahead (I have 2 moded original xbox's) but stay clear of live. I (like most people) pay for my games and enjoy doing so to support the people that make the games. I also know the headache that Moding on Live caused with the original Xbox, and maybe they are jsut stopping it before it comes to that again.
Utopaline
It wasn't having a modded xbox that can play burned games or games off the HDD that hurt XBOX 1. It was people taking DLC off their HDD and modding maps for different games that hurt it.
QUOTE(soopahfly @ Nov 12 2008, 06:14 AM)
I find it amusing that people think that getting banned is a great injustice. There's no denying playing pirate games is theft. Hell, I did it myself on my 1st 360, got banned and Manned the f*ck up and bought another.
All these people whinging about the price of games, $40-$50 is not expensive. Lets do a direct comparison with the UK, substitute your $ for £ and you have the cost. That's right, $80-$100.
If people are making minimum wage $40-50 is expensive to them. They make what $6 something an hour. Thats only like $240+ bux a week. If they have bills to pay, then $40-50 for something that is not needed is expensive. I can pay for a game working about 3 hours. A person working a minimum wage job will have to work 1 full 8 hour day just to make enough, and maybe even need 1-2 hours more to buy a game. So tell me that's not expensive...
QUOTE(orangpelupa @ Nov 12 2008, 07:25 AM)
"keep gameplay safe and secure for our community"
lol thats weird, is playing backups make the community not safe and insecure?
They say to to put fear in the community and make the community think they did something that will help them. Also maybe MS thinks if the community hears people talking about modding their console and playing burned games, maybe people will report them.
QUOTE(phunk @ Nov 12 2008, 11:56 AM)
This is xbox-scene, not piracy-scene, therefore users are allowed to discuss any xbox related news and issues, not just moan about Live bans. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Lay off the glue please. Its obviously affecting your judgement.
Yes its not piracy scene. But this site is mostly to do with hacking, modding, or cosmetic mods for your console. The average xbox fan will most likely not come here for non-modding related news, because most stories that aren't related to modding are related to sales #'s and 3ROL issues, nothing to exciting if you're not into modding your system.
Post by: Illrigger on November 12, 2008, 10:48:00 AM
That being said, I decided not to mod the new 360 when I got it. In the end, between buying the "must have" titles on launch day, and waiting a couple months to get the "that looks good" ones used (and waiting for the 25% off coupon weeks at Gamestop), I don't end up burning up THAT much money on games. And the games I do get are usually worth what I pay - crappier games drop in price used faster than new ones, so you can usually tell a month or two after release what games are worth getting.
It's all about using your head and not lusting after a game on launch day. If you expect that a game isn't going to include a lot of single player action and you aren't into playing online, then don't buy it on launch day. Wait for used, what are you missing out on?
As for those who say that developers get nothing for used vs pirated, that's BS. When I buy used, they got their money for that copy of the game. If I pirated, they didn't. When I buy used, I don't feel guilty - I think of it as the devs getting two half price sales rather than one full price. That's how capitalism works - if they wanted me to spend full price, they should have competed better with the games that I *did* pay full price for. They want me to pay $60 for GoW2? Then they damned well better give me the same 100+ hours of single player that I got from Fallout 3, Fable 2 and SC4. Since I don't plan on playing much multi-player with it, I'll be holding off and buying it used for $45 after 25% off coupon in a month. If it turns out I don't like it, I have 7 days to take it back for full credit - which I also can't do if I buy new. The return policy alone makes me hold off on some titles, like GTA4. I have kids at home, and being able to to return it for full credit after realizing that the only time I would get to play it was after they went to bed was a blessing.
Third option, of course, is Gamefly - if you happen to live somewhere where you can use it. For half the cost of a new game a month, you get to play all those short games you would normally regret buying and get crap in trade-in for. It's not an IDEAL service, you don't get games on launch day, you don't always get the game you want when you want it, but if you can't afford to buy the games it's legal and you won't get kicked off Live for doing it.
Bottom line? Piracy isn't your only option. It may be your only FREE option, but resorting to theft isn't the only way to go if your funds are limited.
Post by: dramradhel on November 12, 2008, 11:03:00 AM
"As for those who say that developers get nothing for used vs pirated, that's BS. When I buy used, they got their money for that copy of the game. If I pirated, they didn't. When I buy used, I don't feel guilty - I think of it as the devs getting two half price sales rather than one full price. "
This is wrong. Take some time to Actually talk to the people at your local game retailer. The developers and producers get NOTHING for used games.
Used games are bought from consumers for low low prices, and sold at ALMOST new prices for huge profits for the retailer. There is no system in place for the developers to get anything from a used game sale.
I am not advocating piracy. I am just saying that Used games hurt just as bad as piracy does. This is why Sony is pushing so hard to do digital delivery of games: No used games on shelves.
Want to support your game developer? Preorder, and buy brand new, or pick up a copy from BestBuy or Target or something.
Post by: Taken83oveR on November 12, 2008, 11:08:00 AM
Post by: frieko on November 12, 2008, 11:37:00 AM
QUOTE(Arakon @ Nov 12 2008, 08:23 AM)
how the hell would MS know you have done the fix?
Simple, they just ban any console that actually still works
Post by: Illrigger on November 12, 2008, 11:47:00 AM
User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller. User "B" buys used copy. Total money that developer sees? Their share of $60/2 users.
User "B" *pirates* the same game. Total money that developer sees? ZERO.
Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.
The net gain of them blocking piracy? Probably a decent percentage of sales. People who spend nothing now will make room in their budgets for a few games - not every one they stole, but at least the big ones will get bought.
The net gain from blocking used sales? Probably not much, as those users already pick an choose what games they are willing to pay full price for, and every 3-4 games they can get used *might* equate to ONE new sale over the same period - *if* they bother to save that money up over the same time period. It will probably even eat into their full price sales a bit, as a lot of users buy full price knowing that they will be trading in within two weeks and using that trade-in money to buy another full price game. In the end, it will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on profits for them.
Blocking used sales and rentals also significantly impacts their distribution channels - Gamestop/EBGames/Game Crazy would go out of business in a single quarter without used sales, and Gamefly would cease to exist at all instantly. Discounted game sales at Target/Bestbuy are NOT a replacement for buying used, and I can assure you that tthe copy I bought of "The Club" at target last month for $12.48 didn't put one red cent in a developer's pocket.
Developers need to get around the used market in a different way - and that different way is by offering decent DLC, and double-dipping people for it when they buy used. After all, the more people that buy the same DLC off one retail copy, the more profit they make from the DLC - and I am willing to bet that the devs get a higher percentage of the profits from DLC than they do from the retail sale of the game itself. Or do you honestly think the devs haven't made well more more money off the $100+ I have spent on tracks from Rock Band than they lost from me buying it used?
Post by: DaddyLongLegs on November 12, 2008, 11:50:00 AM
QUOTE(Taken83oveR @ Nov 12 2008, 07:44 PM)
Why should they? Get paid twice for the same copy? Rubbish. I know every time one of my kids picks up a toy, and then soon grows tired of it, and gives it to one of my younger children, I don't have to go pay the retailer again.
Awful analogy. There aren't gigantic used toy stores making up a huge place of the toy sales market.
Post by: Blackhawk163 on November 12, 2008, 11:55:00 AM
QUOTE(Illrigger @ Nov 12 2008, 03:23 PM)
I disagree, and your logic does not hold up.
User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller. User "B" buys used copy. Total money that developer sees? Their share of $60/2 users.
User "B" *pirates* the same game. Total money that developer sees? ZERO.
Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.
The net gain of them blocking piracy? Probably a decent percentage of sales. People who spend nothing now will make room in their budgets for a few games - not every one they stole, but at least the big ones will get bought.
The net gain from blocking used sales? Probably not much, as those users already pick an choose what games they are willing to pay full price for, and every 3-4 games they can get used *might* equate to ONE new sale over the same period - *if* they bother to save that money up over the same time period. It will probably even eat into their full price sales a bit, as a lot of users buy full price knowing that they will be trading in within two weeks and using that trade-in money to buy another full price game. In the end, it will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on profits for them.
Blocking used sales and rentals also significantly impacts their distribution channels - Gamestop/EBGames/Game Crazy would go out of business in a single quarter without used sales, and Gamefly would cease to exist at all instantly. Discounted game sales at Target/Bestbuy are NOT a replacement for buying used, and I can assure you that tthe copy I bought of "The Club" at target last month for $12.48 didn't put one red cent in a developer's pocket.
Developers need to get around the used market in a different way - and that different way is by offering decent DLC, and double-dipping people for it when they buy used. After all, the more people that buy the same DLC off one retail copy, the more profit they make from the DLC - and I am willing to bet that the devs get a higher percentage of the profits from DLC than they do from the retail sale of the game itself. Or do you honestly think the devs haven't made well more more money off the $100+ I have spent on tracks from Rock Band than they lost from me buying it used?
User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller. User "B" buys used copy. Total money that developer sees? Their share of $60/2 users.
User "B" *pirates* the same game. Total money that developer sees? ZERO.
Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.
The net gain of them blocking piracy? Probably a decent percentage of sales. People who spend nothing now will make room in their budgets for a few games - not every one they stole, but at least the big ones will get bought.
The net gain from blocking used sales? Probably not much, as those users already pick an choose what games they are willing to pay full price for, and every 3-4 games they can get used *might* equate to ONE new sale over the same period - *if* they bother to save that money up over the same time period. It will probably even eat into their full price sales a bit, as a lot of users buy full price knowing that they will be trading in within two weeks and using that trade-in money to buy another full price game. In the end, it will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on profits for them.
Blocking used sales and rentals also significantly impacts their distribution channels - Gamestop/EBGames/Game Crazy would go out of business in a single quarter without used sales, and Gamefly would cease to exist at all instantly. Discounted game sales at Target/Bestbuy are NOT a replacement for buying used, and I can assure you that tthe copy I bought of "The Club" at target last month for $12.48 didn't put one red cent in a developer's pocket.
Developers need to get around the used market in a different way - and that different way is by offering decent DLC, and double-dipping people for it when they buy used. After all, the more people that buy the same DLC off one retail copy, the more profit they make from the DLC - and I am willing to bet that the devs get a higher percentage of the profits from DLC than they do from the retail sale of the game itself. Or do you honestly think the devs haven't made well more more money off the $100+ I have spent on tracks from Rock Band than they lost from me buying it used?
Stores like Target Walmart etc, have already bought the game therefore the developer already has received their cash. If anything Target and company lost a portion of their money on the sale. So in a way you are correct that the sale did not make a dent in the devs pocket. If that's what you meant then you are correct, if not, well, then your assurance just fell flat.
Post by: Illrigger on November 12, 2008, 11:55:00 AM
QUOTE(DaddyLongLegs @ Nov 12 2008, 12:26 PM)
Awful analogy. There aren't gigantic used toy stores making up a huge place of the toy sales market.
No, but there are tens of thousands of used car lots out there, and buying a used Ford doesn't usually give Ford any money (unless you fall for that whole "certified pre-owned" line of BS, which actually means "used, but with extra profits for the dealer and manufacturer factored in").
Post by: evolver360 on November 12, 2008, 12:15:00 PM
I know for FACT that microsoft has not done any new secuirty measures for xbox live and only saying that they have took new action to add confusion to this situation.
The real reason people are getting banned is because they have pirated downloaded games that was the unfinished or review version of the game that did not read like a original game their for getting you banned!!
Their is no need to come in the forums and lie people and say you just got banned for no reason or you never pirated because you are a liar and i hope as soon as this fact is public knowledge that the xbox-scene mods use their ban hammer and ban the people who say they got banned from xbox live.
If you had not broken the law and made copys of your store bought games with the kreon drive the real reason their is a firmwire hack in the first place is to make a legit back up of your store bought games to protect your investment not to steal games that you don't own a legit copy of!!
The people that got their console banned got their greedy stealing hands on downloadable game that was not a retail version and did not have the correct security measures to get past xbox lives checks.
Thats all im going to stay im not saying witch game if you had not pirated your 360 wouldent be banned right now!!
Post by: Illrigger on November 12, 2008, 12:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Blackhawk163 @ Nov 12 2008, 12:31 PM)
Stores like Target Walmart etc, have already bought the game therefore the developer already has received their cash. If anything Target and company lost a portion of their money on the sale. So in a way you are correct that the sale did not make a dent in the devs pocket. If that's what you meant then you are correct, if not, well, then your assurance just fell flat.
Ture, but not true.
Are you HONESTLY naive' enough think that Wal-Mart loses money on ANY sale? That would assume that profits get SMALLER down the distribution chain, which is most certainly not the case. Margins at the top of the chain are smallest, and the retailers are the sharks. Without retailers, distrubutors, manufacturers and developers/inventors don't have the means of reaching the market. They set their margins, not the people selling to them.
Big retailers like Target negotiate their profits BEFORE they receive stock. If you see a copy of a game with a red tag at Target, Target isn't losing money on it. They bought 10 copies of the game, and negotiated with EA to sell them with a reduced margin; in effect they usually end up with one copy that is free. If Target doesn't sell 8 of 10 copies, they sell whatever is left to a consignment sales company at wholesale - their price before their retail markup, but after their incidental markups like renting self space to the company that makes the game, usually EBay/Half.com/Amazon shops nowaday (you *do* know that EA/MS/Sony pays retail stores rent on square footage in their stores, right?). If they look at the numbers and they've made enough money on a lot purchase, it will not be worth their time to consign it off, and they leave it in store and mark it down, anything they make on the sale is "beyond margin" (i.e. "profit"). That's how they can justify it eating up shelf space that could be rented to a supplier, and slowly mark it down until someone buys it - no matter what price the tag says, they make money on it.
So, you're partially right. It didn't *directly* put a dent in the devs' pocket, it put that dent before the disc was ever made, when Target first negotiated with the distributor to put the game on the shelf. And that last copy sitting at Target with a red tag was the end result of the reductions in price all along the distribution chain, meaning that only Target made money on it.
Post by: x YNWA x on November 12, 2008, 12:32:00 PM
QUOTE(Guidor @ Nov 12 2008, 10:27 AM)
Good for MS. Mod your drive and face the consequences. We all know those who mod the drive are doing so in 99.9% of cases to play pirated games. If you cant afford the games don't buy the console.
Its not a case of not being able to afford the games, most people can. I in fact used to spend around £4000 a year on games. I got sick of paying £40 for a game only for it to turn out crap or for it to last something pathetic like 6 hours.
I firmly believe if that all games were released as trial versions then there would be no piracy at all. People would play the trial version and if they liked it they would purchase an activation code for the rest of the game, simple concept. The publishers are just too lazy and milk it for crappy games so its their own fault that people download games. All this crap about stay off xbox live if you use copied games, I really do not know why people say that. Ive been banned once in 2 and a half years and used games online each time before release date too.
Post by: Reaper527 on November 12, 2008, 12:48:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 09:55 AM)
Well, if you're not modding to play pirated games then you wouldn't be using a custom firmware to begin with. It's only for piracy
i take it you don't like guitar hero? it is possible to do custom songs on guitar hero and rockband on a modded 360, as the songs can be replaced without breaking the digital signature on the xex file. (rockband2 may require breaking this signature, unless another method is found)
Post by: LEON007 on November 12, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 03:22 PM)
No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.
Xbox is MS product so they must take some necessary security precaution. They don't able to stop hacker to hack there console. I think its there fault not hackers. If you forgot 100 bucks on your door step and if any one see it then he will take it. Its MS product and its there responsibility to secure it.
Look at PS3 its not hacked yet. Sony doing there work well.
@pholly
For your information many former hacker and cracker from scene are taken by many big companies. They are purchased. So basically if you buy an original product (GAME) then there is a high chances to buy a thieves work.
Ohhh what pholly do now??? Abandoned the original games or fight back?????
If you want to know then must see the thrilling reply of pholly. (Hope he will)
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 12, 2008, 01:22:00 PM
QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 03:55 PM)
I do look down on pirates, I buy my music, movies and games. If you can't afford the hobby try collecting stamps or something. I buy what I want, if you don't then I'm better than you. And the link to the free game music is a site that has music for games that isn't available for purchase it's not a bunch of ripped cds.
Well, if you're not modding to play pirated games then you wouldn't be using a custom firmware to begin with. It's only for piracy, very few actually use it for true backups. As for why I'm here it's simple this is a good site for xbox news, this site isn't for piracy even though that's the reason there are so many users here.
1) Having more money for a hobby than the next man doesn't magically make you better. You may very well suck at every game you play, or may buy games that everyone and their momma considers to be the most horrible atrocity since Carmegeddon, so that's neither here nor there.
2) You say modding firmware is *only* for piracy, but in the same sentence you say there are people who are genuinely honest and only play backups of their own games. Which is it?
Lastly, the bans aren't really negotiating whether or not you're playing with people you want to; they simply ban those who are violating the ToS (as backups are not allowed by it). This does nothing towards diminishing the large population of cheaters & racists, who argue that because they paid $60 for whatever game and paid their XBL dues, that they have the right to glitch games to give them an unfair advantage. They also argue that those same "fees" give them the right to call me every racial slur they can think of, because it's "part of the game" to them.
Does this mean the bans are unjust? No. You should've disputed the ToS before agreeing to them if you had a problem with it. All I'm saying is that I believe their concentrating efforts on piracy at the wrong time (though financially, it's probably the best time), as XBL is still rampant with "game terrorists".
It's unfortunate that with all the money I've spent on my gold membership and MS points I've purchased, that they'd rather kick off Joe Cheapskate than Joe Racist-Asshole. Joe Racist-Asshole, however, pays a much larger percentage of the light bill than Joe Cheapskate does, however, and in capitalism's eyes, is the lesser of two evils (while in the average gamer's eye, the positions should be slightly juxtaposed).
Post by: Fantmx on November 12, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
QUOTE(x YNWA x @ Nov 12 2008, 09:08 PM)
Its not a case of not being able to afford the games, most people can. I in fact used to spend around £4000 a year on games. I got sick of paying £40 for a game only for it to turn out crap or for it to last something pathetic like 6 hours.
I firmly believe if that all games were released as trial versions then there would be no piracy at all. People would play the trial version and if they liked it they would purchase an activation code for the rest of the game, simple concept. The publishers are just too lazy and milk it for crappy games so its their own fault that people download games. All this crap about stay off xbox live if you use copied games, I really do not know why people say that. Ive been banned once in 2 and a half years and used games online each time before release date too.
Post by: BoNg420 on November 12, 2008, 02:12:00 PM
QUOTE(nha @ Nov 12 2008, 06:05 AM)
"keep gameplay safe and secure for our community" lol that's the funniest line ever!
I'm shocked that MS have done this, when they're in a race against the wii and ps3 to be the top games console, blocking a percentage no matter how small has got to harm their profits.. its not like the old xbox, these banned guys are still paying for live etc so money is being lost.
Then people go out buy more consoles, then their consoles sold goes up.
Post by: davegormanrocks on November 12, 2008, 06:13:00 PM
Firstly my view is if you've modded your console and you got banned, it's the choice you made and life. There's nothing wrong in Microsoft doing that according to the terms and conditions.
BUT
Piracy is not and will never be stealing, theft, a crime or anything like that and it's annoying to see people use such powerful words.
Piracy is a civil offense and to use 'stealing' to describe it is merely a PR stunt. Although I'll agree it's morally wrong.
I've attempted to think of an anology which is fitting...
You're walking home from the store where you just paid £44 for your shiny new game. I stop you in the street, take the game and run anyway, you never see it again, you get home probably very annoyed and you never get to play it. This is STEALING the game.
You're walking home from the store where you just paid £44 for your shiny new game. You visit me on your way home and I copy the game. You then continue your walk and then play the game at home all happy. YOU STILL HAVE THE GAME. This is an IP infringement, and piracy.
Further to this, what the industries like you to think is wrong... It's not as bad as taking it from a shop shelf. It's more like going into the shop with a note pad and drawing the game that you want, but you don't buy it... No one actually LOSES anything.
Post by: swg1251 on November 12, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
Post by: Stealth187 on November 12, 2008, 07:33:00 PM
- hitachi drive with iXtreme 1.4, the only modded firmware that has ever been used on this box
- flash method involved powering up xbox (using its own power) without drive attached
- GTA4 and Halo 3 scene releases are the only backups that have been used, neither played online, but I have been connected to Live whilst playing single player
Post by: FallenOne on November 12, 2008, 07:39:00 PM
Now for My Own View On The Issue At Hand. I Bet You Anything Their Bluffing, And If Their Not. I Suggest We Find New Ways To Cover Our Tracks, And I Personally Think Someone With A Debug Console, Or A Moddified Kernal Should Debug, and Monitor The Events That Occur When You Install The NXE. See If There Is Any Activity On The Drive... Or mabey Even Take A Pre Bricked Drive And Test If You Get Banned With The Bricked Drive... The Possibility Of M$ Trying To Check Every Single FRMWRE On Every Single Console Is Unlikely, Unless They Have Found A Single Abnormality With Every Single One Of The 'Sploits That Have Been Used... Honestly... I Have A Feeling This Is Going To Be Another Wild Goose Chase For M$.
Post by: Dragon Curve on November 12, 2008, 08:25:00 PM
QUOTE(phunk @ Nov 12 2008, 04:02 PM)
I really dont see whay so many people are trying to justify piracy just because they think games are overpriced.
Cars (and lets face it, most other consumer goods) are ridiculously overpriced - do these people see carjacking as ok? No, didn't think so.
The basic upshot is, MS want you to pay for the games that developers spent 2-3 years making. I dont think that's too much to ask, considering that is their revenue stream.
Pricing itself is another issue; I agree that £40-£50 for shovelware is a rip-off, but no one is holding a gun to your head to make you buy and/or play games. Its a choice you can make. Dont want to pay? Then dont play. Simple.
Now if like me (and many others), your 360 has chewed the shit out of your discs, then I can definately see a a valid point in being able to legally make backups and play them. The problem is, that allows all the moochers and freeloaders to play copies of games they have no intention of paying for. Unfortunately its a double-edged sword. If MS had the decency to replace discs that have been ruined by their shitty dvd drives, then the whole 'backup' issue becomes a moot point. All you'd have to do would be return the disc for a replacement, and problem solved!
The problem with that logic, is that you are getting something TANGIBLE when you buy a car. When you buy a game, you're buying intellectual property, essentially. It might cost them $1-2 for the DVD and its case, but you're essentially buying the data on that case. I place more value on real, tangible things (houses, cars, TVs) than I do on paying for something I can't hold or see (i.e. the data on a DVD).
That, and a 5 year old car will retain SOME value, whereas a 5 year old game is near worthless. I don't really want to pay $90 (that's in AUD) for the latest, greatest game when in a couple of years it's worth nothing. Hence, it's not a tangible object.
Look at the music industry. So long they sat on their high horse selling off mass-produced CDs at exhorbitant prices until they realised piracy was such a major issue, they needed to drop their prices and create something like iTunes (among others).
Microsoft can build a game, then cut as many copies of that game as they feel like. A car manufacturer is literally building a product every time someone buys it (or at least, building it first, then selling it). It's apples and oranges.
Don't want to pay? People find other options. I'm not a market analyst and I couldn't tell you if Microsoft would profit more by dropping the prices so more pirates could buy legit games, but having high prices DEFINITELY incents people to find other options. Who can blame them? Why not get something for free if you think it's way overpriced? Are you saying that if someone came up with a way where you could get a brand new Ferrari for nothing, with relatively no risk to yourself, you wouldn't be a little bit interested?
Post by: JBmtk on November 12, 2008, 08:25:00 PM
Now can we please get back to actually discussing topics related to the new bans occurring as in who is getting banned, why, and when? I know this happened in the past and the number of responses and solutions were really great and helped out tremendously.
Post by: icspwnz on November 12, 2008, 09:57:00 PM
and as for the analogy "you wouldn't like it if someone stole your car would you?" i would say; you can steal my car because it was only a backup copy. sharing is caring.
Post by: gsharpshooter on November 12, 2008, 10:01:00 PM
QUOTE(Arakon @ Nov 12 2008, 08:23 AM)
how the hell would MS know you have done the fix? they don't come to your home and crack open your console to look.
well someone before said they installed a diffrent fan in their console and microsoft banned him because they some how found out about to bad modding isnt like the good ole dayz with xbox 1 that was awesome it made me get all these tingly feelings inside when i did mod my first xbox ahh those were the dayz
Post by: gsharpshooter on November 12, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
QUOTE(icspwnz @ Nov 13 2008, 06:33 AM)
the only real thieves here are M$ .. . i've lost count of how many REAL ppl i've met who have had to purchase literally 6-7 xbox 360 systems due to the RROD. If you or i had a business and were selling a defective product to millions of people, then i would expect that our heads would already be on a stake somewhere.
and as for the analogy "you wouldn't like it if someone stole your car would you?" i would say; you can steal my car because it was only a backup copy. sharing is caring.
to ur response of the analogy ....pFFAHAHAHAHAHAHA u can go ahead and steal my car LMAO ahh that made me crack up no really it did
QUOTE(Sarek @ Nov 13 2008, 06:39 AM)
Microsoft shouldn't be banning people from Live, they should be bricking your consoles, or suing you like the music industry has.
Those of you that try to justify your stealing games by saying you are "trying them out", or "can't afford them", or whatever other lame reasons just need to grow up.
If you truly can't afford to buy games, then don't. Find something else to do (how did you afford that $300-$400 console?) Or maybe get a job... or work a couple of extra hours. Or sell some old crap on Ebay.
Or trade some of your games instead of stealing :
GameTZ
GameTZ is a great site where you can trade games for FREE. Just buy 1 or 2 games, and you can trade them for other games. You can even trade older games for newer ones if you can find someone interested.
You have lots of other options besides stealing.
hmmm yep ur right ur the man WOOHOOO CHEEERS...NOT do u know how many rrods i went through with ms im sick of ms not fixing the problem now and still getting away with it so why shouldnt i get away with there games for the time and money they wasted on all the rrods i think its only fair
Post by: gsharpshooter on November 12, 2008, 10:09:00 PM
QUOTE(rocarmy4life @ Nov 12 2008, 10:14 PM)
they make money from LIVE, consoles and game sales.
how will they make money from pirated games?
they cant...so, the modder already bought their console, and already paid for live...so MS got their cash.... they might get another $50 next year but they wont see another cent from people playing pirated games...smack em in the face by banning their console, make em spend another $200+ and another $50 and make maybe $250 OR hope that the modder pays another $50 next year... To make that $250, MS could only hope the modder plays on LIVE for 5 more years!! $250 / $50 = 5 years of LIVE subscriptions. Dont be shocked that they have employees making 6 figures+ a year already weighing the pros and cons of banning modders.
or u can buy a ps3 and hope ms ends up failing miserably i have both consoles but the amount of rrods is unacceptable so u know what i need to start relying on another worthy console that will last instead of this scrap metal from hell
Post by: rob4748 on November 13, 2008, 12:06:00 AM
QUOTE(gsharpshooter @ Nov 13 2008, 12:45 AM)
or u can buy a ps3 and hope ms ends up failing miserably i have both consoles but the amount of rrods is unacceptable so u know what i need to start relying on another worthy console that will last instead of this scrap metal from hell
thats not true cause i play the new 007 game and it was a nfo game and im not banned so try again!!!!!!!
Post by: SleepyG on November 13, 2008, 12:20:00 AM
QUOTE(Illrigger @ Nov 12 2008, 01:23 PM)
I disagree, and your logic does not hold up.
User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller. User "B" buys used copy. Total money that developer sees? Their share of $60/2 users.
User "B" *pirates* the same game. Total money that developer sees? ZERO.
Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.
No sir, your logic does not hold up. I had to create an account to answer this post.
If User "A" purchases a game new from a game store, the developer sees the full amount of the purchase. User "A" then resells the game to the game store.
User "B" purchases that same game from the game store USED. The GAME STORE sees 100% of that profit. The developer does not see $60/2.
User "C" pirates the game. The developer sees nothing from the profits, just like User "B".
User "B" and User "C" both have the same effect on the developer. The only thing that User "B" is doing is supporting the game store so that the game store can continue specializing in game sales.
So overall, for every person that buys the game, there can be someone out there that pirates the game, as long as that pirate was planning on buying it used. Because if someone decides to pirate the game instead of buying it used, it has the same damn effect on the developer.
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 13, 2008, 12:46:00 AM
QUOTE(Sarek @ Nov 13 2008, 06:42 AM)
How is that possible (unless the people you know are idiots, or modded their consoles, or you are lying)? Microsoft gives a 3 year warranty for RROD, and the launch consoles haven't even hit the 3 year mark yet.
There are ZERO Xbox 360's out of RROD warranty.
Does any one remember what the original warranty period was for the 360, 90 days. It took MS quite some time before it was extended to 1 year and then later 3 years.
Many people in that time had out of warranty consoles and tried to fix them since MS wanted like $90-$100 for repair.
Of course there are people who have had hardware failures and their console does not exhibit the 3 ROD. These people are not covered in the 3 year warranty, they only get 1 year.
I remember my 1st and only 3 ROD, at that time MS only had a 1 year warranty for 3 ROD issue.
Of course when you send your console in, you are without the console for most likely a month.
In the end, this whole 3ROD issue was MS fault since they knew there were problems and wanted to get their console out before Nintendo and Sony.
Since I don't play online, I does not really matter to me, but I like to protect my investment. Spending $60 on a game is a lot of money to me and I want to protect the item I have purchased. Paying $1.30 to replace a backup is way better than having to spend another $60 to replace a damaged copy.
Don't get me wrong, I can't stand people who steal, lie, and cheat.
I have a friend who pirates game up the ying-yang, that was until his ISP threatened him with legal action.
I warned him many times, but does he listen, why should he?
For those people who are whining like 2 years old about being banned, be glad MS only banned your console from online activities and not having legal action taken against you.
The only thing I do online is buy more songs for Rock Band and Guitar Hero, I don't care about online multiplayer.
Post by: NeloD on November 13, 2008, 01:31:00 AM
Post by: ubiman on November 13, 2008, 01:48:00 AM
QUOTE(Guidor @ Nov 12 2008, 07:31 AM)
They're looking at the bigger picture. I will put money on that there is a far smaller percentage of people using pirated games on the 360 than the Xbox purely down to the fact that you risk losing a huge side of what makes the console great. It sends out a message that if you try to screw us then we'll screw you back. If somebody was trying to rob from you would you not do the same?
Games are more expensive than DVD's but they also have a higher resale value or trade in value. Most people will buy a game and play it. If they love it they'll keep it but many including myself will later down the line trade it in against the new game and this offsets the cost. That's not really the point though as it's unfair to compare against a DVD. A DVD is a secondary source of income for a movie house. The film will have hopefully taken money at the box office and the DVD of the film is a secondary source or revenue. The only way I could compare that now to a game is the re-released Xbox Live titles.
Post by: Nillaz on November 13, 2008, 01:52:00 AM
Does this help the developer? Not a bit. And the developers hate that. If you do some searching there have been several developers lately speaking out about this in the news. Personally I think they're in the wrong and being greedy but that's neither here nor there and has no bearing on the discussion. What does have bearing though is that both Microsoft and the developer have collected that licensing fee at the original point of sale, regardless of how many times it's been bought/sold afterward.
The notion that it is ok to pirate because you were 'going to purchase it used' simply doesn't hold up because the IP owners have not collected the fee for distribution rights on that copy of the title. Plus, let's not forget the fact that Microsoft collects a portion of profit for every game sold regardless of who the developer was and is not interested in allowing people to play games that they haven't been paid for on their proprietary network, which is what leads to this mess every couple months.
Post by: mazdamiata210 on November 13, 2008, 02:17:00 AM
Post by: fiestaxr2 on November 13, 2008, 02:19:00 AM
QUOTE(nigja @ Nov 13 2008, 10:56 AM)
there are very few 360's out of full RROD warranty
my launch console - manufacture date 2005-10-21 - got the ring last week. Just a few weeks after it was made.
my friend's launch console is also out of the same warranty as well. Another launch console but its still running strong.
And btw, never had to do an xclamp prevention.
My xbox live console is unmodded and never been opened / repaired . I bought it pre owned from gamestation 13 months ago . 2 Days ago it developed rrod so i called microsoft only to be told the previous owner registerted the console to themselves and i was the second owner it is not covered under the 3 year rrod warranty ? Is this correct .
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 13, 2008, 03:47:00 AM
I had the same problem, I gave them some bs story about the console being a birthday gift and that the person who gave it to me died so I don't know what the registration name is. Anyway they did send me a box to send the console back and I did get another one.
The worst that can happen is they say no, they won't warranty it.
Post by: Chancer on November 13, 2008, 04:25:00 AM
QUOTE(FallenOne @ Nov 13 2008, 03:15 AM)
But sometimes its acceptable, in many cases people find themselves wanting to try a game before they buy it. So whats wrong with them doing that? I know im going to encounter the people who say then go out and rent it. Well have you forgotten that many of us are young, broke, in college, and just dont like spending money on these kinds of things?
Quick newsflash for you. Get into the real world. Everyone has been broke at some time. Being a student or having no money to pay for games or NOT LIKING PAYING for those kind of things means you should simply not own them. You have no divine right to have everything. If you don't have the money you work a bit more or you save for it. You don't go and break the law.
QUOTE(FallenOne @ Nov 13 2008, 03:15 AM)
I love the people who come in here strictly to judge those of us who choose to do things diffrently than others, and to those people i say Kudos. Because they feel that they are any better than us to actually attempt to judge us, even though they know that they are just as bad as any one of us.
You used the wrong phrase. You mean do things illegally. As for the people who judge , count yourself in. You just made a judgement on the vast number of people who don't pirate games.
The people buying games have every right to an opinion counter to the ones who simply pirate. It's the same in life you always geta bunch or "hard done by" people that will quite happily sit on their arse all day, whilst everyone else makes the world go round. the same people who do nothing will try justify taking property or whatever else , whilst not contributing one single bit.
QUOTE(FallenOne @ Nov 13 2008, 03:15 AM)
And any of those who do come into this Thread judgeing those who do choose to modify their consoles and Backup Games, Understand that they do that at the risk of their Money, their Console, and Every Other Penalty Possible in this situation. So anyone who does come in here to just throw around their oppinon, Newsflash, We Dont Give A Rats %$&. We Know What Were Doing Your Not Our Mother, Go Troll Elsewhere, Do Something Productive. We Have This Issue To Face, It Is Our Own; And NOT YOURS. If We Want Your Oppinon We Shall Ask For It From You.
Typical response . Your actions do affect other people. sanctions and measures restrict the innocent as well. Often the only way to stop a minority of wrong doers is to sanction everyone.
QUOTE(FallenOne @ Nov 13 2008, 03:15 AM)
So i say if you have absolutely Nothing to bring to this Forum, this Discussion, and This Wide Scale Issue.
GTFO
Do not ever tell people what you just did. providing people here stick to XS rules they can post their opinion just as you have been allowed to.
Your comment in bold is antagonistic and the record of such is now on your warn log.
QUOTE(mrgreaper @ Nov 12 2008, 02:52 PM)
ah yes because all of us are evil pirates, piracy is not the only reason to mod ur 360 moron and if your console is not modded why the hell are you here?
Modding your console is not a requirement of joining this forum. Mine is not modded. Be very careful insulting people personally on here. You can't afford another slip up. Stick to counter argument.
Post by: ripper22 on November 13, 2008, 05:15:00 AM
so whats the big problem of being banned? all the pirates that never play online probably dont give a fck i they will be banned..
I used to buy my games untill the first banwave, after that never bought one (need money too buy new console if this one gets banned , so cant spend all money on games)
now im on fw 1.2 and played all games including test versions, review shit...
no ban so far, but thats probably because they have my visa number so why would they ban me if they are getting mooney year after year...i think they only ban people who dont pay with creditcards
Post by: dramradhel on November 13, 2008, 07:41:00 AM
Your knee jerk responses without actually reading and understanding what you're replying to is, while amusing, also frightening in the fact that you live and work in the same country as me.
Post by: Mikekay1976 on November 13, 2008, 08:07:00 AM
QUOTE(dramradhel @ Nov 13 2008, 04:17 PM)
a few, definately not all of you, are utterly and completely missing the point of my posts. I didn't say the developers should get money from used sales. ALL I said was that if you want to support developers, buy new.
Your knee jerk responses without actually reading and understanding what you're replying to is, while amusing, also frightening in the fact that you live and work in the same country as me.
actually end hand sales sort of help devs
many people use the trade in of their games to buy a new one.
without that trade in they may not buy as many new games, so its kind of a knock on effect.
i have a mixture of new and 2nd hand games.
if i DONT contribute directly to a dev on a game i love (ie in my instance say GOW) i make sure i buy brand new on the same devs next titles (ie in my case GOW2).
that way i kind of feel i get some bargains but help support the devs i rate as well.
sure maybe i am not the ideal games player in terms of sales, however i have around 30 games half of which were new.
Post by: haris2887 on November 13, 2008, 08:17:00 AM
Is the Ban WAVE Over yet ? that's what i mean to ask... or are people still getting banned as we speak.
Post by: evolver360 on November 13, 2008, 11:00:00 AM
QUOTE(Eamon @ Nov 13 2008, 01:32 PM)
360mods thinks that the banning is due to bad isos. And MS probably just decided to take action around this time.
Bad isos as in: Not stealth patched, Playing review copies, Bad Kreon rip, playing retail early.
And MS, probably gathered as much people as possible who had those signs and decided to take action now.
Btw, is anything wrong with 360mods' site. I can't get to the IRC channel page and the forums
I know for a fact thats what it is but some on here seem to qestion me.
Post by: Chancer on November 13, 2008, 11:02:00 AM
QUOTE(evolver360 @ Nov 13 2008, 06:36 PM)
I know for a fact thats what it is but some on here seem to qestion me.
must be to do with all the accounts you have.
which are about to be closed
Post by: albertgao on November 13, 2008, 11:54:00 AM
Post by: lancer on November 13, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
now ive had a thought about it and even when u connect to some1 in your country some of the games still lag the fuck out, p2p is just going backwards considering pc has had dedicated servers since the dawn of time.
so instead of me buying a new 360 to get on live ill just buy a ps3 and have the best of both worlds.
btw, ps3's online service is free yet they have dedicated servers for certain titles, how cool is that?
Post by: MickRick on November 13, 2008, 03:55:00 PM
QUOTE(Eamon @ Nov 13 2008, 09:46 PM)
Does anybody have a CLEAR idea of what is causing the bans?
And not an amateur theory. A professional opinion
Not an amateur theory or professional opinion (I don't work for M$, the only ones who really know what's doing this) but my informed opinion is that it's people that can't wait a few weeks till a game is released to retail playing downloaded "press release", ie read "leaked M$ entrapment", copies of games. They try to play on Live and BAM! M$ gets their console id. M$ leaves it a few weeks, collates as much info as possible and then BAM! Ban Hammer falls.
For the record, I haven't even put Saints Row 2 or CoD W@W in my Elite console. My Premium console isn't networked and is rarely turned on except for the odd dvd. I booted up GOW2 in my Elite before release date but never logged on to Live with it. It shows in my offline profile as a played game. But I have logged on to Live (Silver account) several times a day since the bans started again and my console is not banned. Even if I do get one or both of my 360's banned, I don't care. I would never pay for the Live service so, apart from updates, I wouldn't use it.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 13, 2008, 05:54:00 PM
I don't go online since...
Fracture
Last Played Online: 13/10/2008
It was a promotional copy and didn't play since... My 360 is collecting dust and looks like a paperweight...
I made a couple of backups but never played logged on LIVE...
EDIT:
M$ can ban the hell out of me/xbox/whatever, i couldn't care less... And i don't blame them either...
Post by: Libtoem on November 14, 2008, 04:02:00 AM
QUOTE(evolver360 @ Nov 13 2008, 08:36 PM)
I know for a fact thats what it is but some on here seem to qestion me.
You obviously have no idea what your talking about.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 14, 2008, 04:22:00 AM
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 14 2008, 01:30 AM)
I'll find out on November 19... NXE sucks... It's for kids... Avatars look gay...
I don't go online since...
Fracture
Last Played Online: 13/10/2008
It was a promotional copy and didn't play since... My 360 is collecting dust and looks like a paperweight...
I made a couple of backups but never played logged on LIVE...
EDIT:
M$ can ban the hell out of me/xbox/whatever, i couldn't care less... And i don't blame them either...
EDIT 2:
And why the hell do i have to log in to LIVE just to whatch a damn xvid or mp4 file... Do i really need to download the damn media update... over and over again.... every single time i start this damn brick...
Post by: sdooley on November 14, 2008, 12:55:00 PM
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998
unauthorized copying of a copyrighted work. Making or selling devices or services that
are used to circumvent either category of technological measure is prohibited in certain
circumstances, described below. As to the act of circumvention in itself, the provision
prohibits circumventing the first category of technological measures, but not the
second.
This distinction was employed to assure that the public will have the continued
ability to make fair use of copyrighted works. Since copying of a work may be a fair use
under appropriate circumstances, section 1201 does not prohibit the act of circumventing
a technological measure that prevents copying. By contrast, since the fair use
doctrine is not a defense to the act of gaining unauthorized access to a work, the act of
circumventing a technological measure in order to gain access is prohibited.
Section 1201 proscribes devices or services that fall within any one of the
following three categories:
! they are primarily designed or produced to circumvent;
! they have only limited commercially significant purpose or use other
than to circumvent; or
! they are marketed for use in circumventing.
**nuff said**
Post by: charookitt on November 14, 2008, 01:51:00 PM
Love to all
Post by: Math1 on November 14, 2008, 01:57:00 PM
Post by: MickRick on November 14, 2008, 02:18:00 PM
QUOTE(free4me @ Nov 14 2008, 07:28 PM)
The majornelson article even mentions something about the early "review" version of the NXE. I also think that the various versions of the consoles and DVD drives also have varying levels of detectability. For example, nobody I know has a Hitachi DVD drive.
Methinks Major Nelson is being a wee bit mischievous if he's implying consoles are getting banned for having NXE installed. After all, you don't have to have a hardware modded console to install it and there are no copyright warnings etc when installing as far as I'm aware.
I have a Hitachi drive in my Elite (see my sig) and I have just been on Live for over an hour, downloaded and played the 1.2Gb demo of Left 4 Dead and everything is still hunky dorey.
Post by: HotKnife420 on November 14, 2008, 02:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Math1 @ Nov 14 2008, 10:33 PM)
NHA - you really don't have a clue about the economics of a platform do you? Microsoft makes $8 for EVERY SINGLE disc manufactured by 3rd parties - and that is amost all profit. They make barely enough off of LIVE subscriptions to keep the servers up. Banning someone from LIVE doesn't hurt their business nearly enough (especially since they already have your subscription fees) to make up for the risk of 3rd Party publishers walking away because of piracy.
6 million gold members times $50 per year, equals $300,000,000 (yes, that's three hundred million). $300 million is certainly more then enough to keep the servers running (you're never actually gaming on a Xbox LIVE Server), not to mention profit from DLC (which is what the servers *do* host).
Post by: HaredX on November 14, 2008, 02:34:00 PM
Hitachi 47dj with ixtreme 1.41
On this console I didn't play a single pre-release or review copy. I checked every single game I played with ABGX and Mulleter before burning and I am the only one with access to my console. They MUST have found a new check that we can't see
Post by: MickRick on November 14, 2008, 03:07:00 PM
QUOTE(HaredX @ Nov 14 2008, 10:10 PM)
Just got banned 5 minutes ago.
Hitachi 47dj with ixtreme 1.41
On this console I didn't play a single pre-release or review copy. I checked every single game I played with ABGX and Mulleter before burning and I am the only one with access to my console. They MUST have found a new check that we can't see
So what were you playing when you got banned?
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 14, 2008, 07:44:00 PM
It says that any 360 that is not in the list won't be able to connect to xbox live until Nov 19.
They can't ban you since this is not a hardware modification.
Also, I did not realize until recently that the Hard Drive even retained the most recent update used with it.
All the warning means is if update a 360 not on the list, you can't access xbox live until Nov 19, nothing more.
Unless someone actually has proof of them banning a console with the NXE and IS NOT modded, It is nothing more than speculation.
Post by: Haygar on November 14, 2008, 09:46:00 PM
QUOTE(DaddyLongLegs @ Nov 13 2008, 04:10 AM)
Yeah but I bet playing it online didn't matter either. The 360 keeps a log of every game you've played. A lot of people saying they played Gears of War 2 but with the ethernet unplugged are missing the point. This isn't the days of the original XBox. Microsoft has banned people in the past who never took their copied games online.
If you have a log on your 360 that you played Gears of War 2 well before release, you're banned, simple as that. I know this has not been proven but it makes the most sense to me.
All this talk of playing games BEFORE release then getting banned because of it, only makes sense to me if you go online.
Why? Because, what if your system clock is on the wrong date and you were to play a retail game that is already released? Depending on what that date is your game log would show you either played it early or have played it in the future, lol.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 14, 2008, 10:04:00 PM
QUOTE(Haygar @ Nov 15 2008, 05:22 AM)
All this talk of playing games BEFORE release then getting banned because of it, only makes sense to me if you go online.
Why? Because, what if your system clock is on the wrong date and you were to play a retail game that is already released? Depending on what that date is your game log would show you either played it early or have played it in the future, lol.
And what about playing with ethernet cable unppluged, set the date and clock of the 360 manualy...
Then delete your profile/game data/everything after playing all those games before release date...
Then log in to LIVE and recover your profile... You'll get nailed...
What i know is that everytime you fire up you 360 without ethernet cable you are back to the future... lol... I mean past... 22/11/2005 - 12:00
Imagine you start playing GoW 2 now in the past... 360 logs it... next time on LIVE in the future... Banned...
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 14, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
QUOTE(salsa8484 @ Nov 15 2008, 06:42 AM)
is there any benefit to waiting to connect to live? If I have already been flagged, is there going to be an Ixtreme 1.5 that can fix that? or am I just delaying the inevitable? Or do they stop this ban wave after a week or so?
As I understand it, there are conditions your console must meet before you get banned.
Also as I understand it, MS cannot detect the modified firmware, but what they detect is the backup. This is why the stealth matters so much as well as what firmware you are running.
I don't know if anyone here plays backups on the Wii, but Nintendo did come out with a check a while back that was added to Nintendo Games starting with Super Mario Galaxy. Basically if you ran an original, nothing happened, but if you ran a backup you would get an "Unauthorized device detected error". Despite what the message says, they weren't detecting the modchip, they were detecting the fact the there was a DVD-R in the drive and not a "pressed disc". Of course this check was defeated by updating the firmware of the modchip.
In any event, playing even ONE backup put your console in risk of banning.
Hope this helps
Post by: salsa8484 on November 14, 2008, 11:53:00 PM
QUOTE(ccfman2004 @ Nov 14 2008, 10:48 PM)
As I understand it, there are conditions your console must meet before you get banned.
Also as I understand it, MS cannot detect the modified firmware, but what they detect is the backup. This is why the stealth matters so much as well as what firmware you are running.
I don't know if anyone here plays backups on the Wii, but Nintendo did come out with a check a while back that was added to Nintendo Games starting with Super Mario Galaxy. Basically if you ran an original, nothing happened, but if you ran a backup you would get an "Unauthorized device detected error". Despite what the message says, they weren't detecting the modchip, they were detecting the fact the there was a DVD-R in the drive and not a "pressed disc". Of course this check was defeated by updating the firmware of the modchip.
In any event, playing even ONE backup put your console in risk of banning.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick reply, I guess what I am saying is that I am 99.9% sure I have met the ban conditions. But I have not connected to live for the last week, so I havent actually been banned yet. But If I have already flagged microsoft then would I get banned the next time I connect to live anyway no matter if it is tonight or 6 months from now? Thanks for the help
BTW does anyone have an up to date ini and stealth file database URL's for Mulleter?
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 15, 2008, 12:01:00 AM
Post by: ka-b00m on November 15, 2008, 03:44:00 AM
QUOTE(anarchron @ Nov 15 2008, 09:47 AM)
Does anyone know if the 360 keeps a log of all unstealthed games played on the NAND?
That could be one way MS could be detecting the playing of backups everytime you connect up to Xbox Live without anything in the disk drive.
I think M$ can pretty much do whatever they what with the 360... they must have somekind of system log...
I am shure i am flagged... Just for modding the damn thing... Not for playing backups or whatever...
Like i said i don't care if i get axed by the ban... Just shame for me not to be able to whatch my movies... Without stupid LIVE media update...
PS: isn't sweet m$ bans so close to this beautifull holiday season... ho noz me goes outz to getz newz xboxz for me kiddyz playz on the internetzz...
PS2: sorry, but, fu m$ my kid it's only 2 years old... he doesn't know what the internetz is...
Post by: MickRick on November 15, 2008, 04:18:00 AM
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 15 2008, 05:40 AM)
And what about playing with ethernet cable unppluged, set the date and clock of the 360 manualy...
Then delete your profile/game data/everything after playing all those games before release date...
Then log in to LIVE and recover your profile... You'll get nailed...
What i know is that everytime you fire up you 360 without ethernet cable you are back to the future... lol... I mean past... 22/11/2005 - 12:00
Imagine you start playing GoW 2 now in the past... 360 logs it... next time on LIVE in the future... Banned...
So what, M$ loves me for some reason so haven't banned me? As previously stated, I booted up GoW2 using a local profile and it's in my list of played games but I haven't been banned. I was connected to Live (albeit with a Silver account) for well over an hour yesterday to see if I got banned, dl'd and played the demo of Left4 Dead while connected and still not banned.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 15, 2008, 04:26:00 AM
QUOTE(MickRick @ Nov 15 2008, 11:54 AM)
So what, M$ loves me for some reason so haven't banned me? As previously stated, I booted up GoW2 using a local profile and it's in my list of played games but I haven't been banned. I was connected to Live (albeit with a Silver account) for well over an hour yesterday to see if I got banned, dl'd and played the demo of Left4 Dead while connected and still not banned.
Don't worry they will get you in next wave of hammer bashing... me, just waiting for the 19th to confirm my ban...
Post by: MickRick on November 15, 2008, 06:28:00 AM
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 15 2008, 12:02 PM)
Don't worry they will get you in next wave of hammer bashing... me, just waiting for the 19th to confirm my ban...
Oohhhhh, you seem so... certain! Should I start worrying if I don't get banned?
Post by: MickRick on November 15, 2008, 07:49:00 AM
QUOTE(thestanleycup @ Nov 15 2008, 02:48 PM)
in previous reply you mentionned your banned with hitachi 47 with ixtreme 1.4 and a couple of reply after you say that you are not banned???
were you really banned with the console hitachi 47 with the ixtreme 1.4 checking all your games with abgx and not playing pre=release titles or not???
Sorry, could you point me in the direction of that reply because neither of my 360's, Elite with Hitachi or Premium with Benq, are banned.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 15, 2008, 09:41:00 AM
QUOTE(MickRick @ Nov 15 2008, 03:25 PM)
Sorry, could you point me in the direction of that reply because neither of my 360's, Elite with Hitachi or Premium with Benq, are banned.
You did go LIVE with the Elite... Drive modded... played a copy... tagged... wait for it... BAN
Of course i am not 100% shure that any "crap" i say here is true, but what i read here is that most ppl with modded drives get nailed eventually (most will admit played "backups" and loggin on LIVE, etc., etc.)... there are ppl who escaped the 2 first ban waves... including myself... but that was with an old and very dead 360...
Some escaped the third wave so far... my bet is on media used or system log... wait for it... BAN
Post by: MickRick on November 15, 2008, 10:16:00 AM
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 15 2008, 05:17 PM)
You did go LIVE with the Elite... Drive modded... played a copy... tagged... wait for it... BAN
Ha ha ha. I think you're referring to post #123 in this thread which is a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
Post by: RayTwoOneThree on November 15, 2008, 12:20:00 PM
Post by: Broomop on November 15, 2008, 02:30:00 PM
QUOTE(digital_1 @ Nov 15 2008, 11:58 PM)
So i have 2 consoles. 1 modified the other unmodified. the modified got banned last night. I want to just transfer my hard drive over to my other unmodified xbox to continue live play. Any one do this? In the past I was able to transfer the hard drives back and forth with no problem. I called microsoft this morning, the first rep who i knew obviously didn't know what he was talking about said they ban the gamertag, hard drive and console....I asked to speak to the manager, he said nothing wrong with my profile but he wasn't sure wether or not they would do anything to me for moving the hard drive over to my unmodified console. He first recommended getting a transfer kit then he recommended just using a memory card to move my save files and gamertag. Im thinking I should be fine as they didn't ban the other system when i was using that hard drive on it before. What do you think? Is it safe or should I just get a memory card? Oh and for the record I never downloaded anything or played anything pre-release or played backups online. Just copies of games I own which is why I want to just transfer the hard drive so I can continue from where I left off.
just do it.. i mean if you get banned as long as the microsoft tag has not been touched you have the right to get a new replacement since they banned you for not doing nothing to the xbox360 meaining there must be a issue with it as udidnt break the warranty and your not getting what you paid for....
Post by: troy2000 on November 15, 2008, 04:32:00 PM
I have been doing some experiements in the last two days (the last two ban waves) with a few Xbox 360 consoles. One with a BenQ drive (flashed with iXtreme 1.4), one with a Samsung drive (iXtreme 1.4 also), and two with Hitachi drives (lets call those two "A" and "B". Yet again, iXtreme 1.4). Finally, I have formulated a theory from the following data.
On the BenQ Xbox 360, I have played no backups in the last four weeks. It has been signed into Xbox LIVE, in a retail verison of Gears Of War 2, for 21 consecutive hours. It has not been banned.
On the Samsung Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Gears Of War 2 early. The console was left signed into Xbox LIVE for 9 consecutive hours. It was banned from Xbox LIVE on Thursday.
On the "A" Hitachi Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Call Of Duty: World At War early. The console was signed into Xbox LIVE for 3 consecutive hours. It was banned on Friday.
On the "B" Hitachi Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Mirror's Edge early. The console was left disconnected from Xbox LIVE for the duration. It was banned from Xbox LIVE on Friday.
This would seem to support the suggestion that Microsoft is indeed detecting backups themselves and not the firmware. I will be leaving the BenQ Xbox 360 connected to Xbox LIVE for another 24 hours. Those who wish to, can monitor my progress via the GamerTag "Troy2062". In the event of a ban, I shall update this post immediately.
Have a ban-free day
,Troy.
Post by: MickeYd420 on November 15, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: ka-b00m on November 15, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
QUOTE(troy2000 @ Nov 16 2008, 12:08 AM)
Hi,
I have been doing some experiements in the last two days (the last two ban waves) with a few Xbox 360 consoles. One with a BenQ drive (flashed with iXtreme 1.4), one with a Samsung drive (iXtreme 1.4 also), and two with Hitachi drives (lets call those two "A" and "B". Yet again, iXtreme 1.4). Finally, I have formulated a theory from the following data.
On the BenQ Xbox 360, I have played no backups in the last four weeks. It has been signed into Xbox LIVE, in a retail verison of Gears Of War 2, for 21 consecutive hours. It has not been banned.
On the Samsung Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Gears Of War 2 early. The console was left signed into Xbox LIVE for 9 consecutive hours. It was banned from Xbox LIVE on Thursday.
On the "A" Hitachi Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Call Of Duty: World At War early. The console was signed into Xbox LIVE for 3 consecutive hours. It was banned on Friday.
On the "B" Hitachi Xbox 360, I have played a backup of Mirror's Edge early. The console was left disconnected from Xbox LIVE for the duration. It was banned from Xbox LIVE on Friday.
This would seem to support the suggestion that Microsoft is indeed detecting backups themselves and not the firmware. I will be leaving the BenQ Xbox 360 connected to Xbox LIVE for another 24 hours. Those who wish to, can monitor my progress via the GamerTag "Troy2062". In the event of a ban, I shall update this post immediately.
Have a ban-free day
,Troy.
One question:
Did you used the same profile in all the XBOX's?
And my new "hypothetical theory" is:
Using the same profile + unmodifed XBOX + another banned XBOX + yet another banned XBOX = BAN
QUOTE(MickeYd420)
some of u make me sick...
Thank you
Post by: troy2000 on November 15, 2008, 04:49:00 PM
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 16 2008, 01:20 AM)
One question:
Did you used the same profile in all the XBOX's?
And my new "hypothetical theory" is:
Using the same profile + unmodifed XBOX + another banned XBOX + yet another banned XBOX = BAN
Thank you
As I needed to remove any possible source of error, each console was using a different profile (Using the same profile would be console-suicide, considering the sheer number of consoles I had to use for this).
Post by: Haygar on November 15, 2008, 07:51:00 PM
QUOTE(RayTwoOneThree @ Nov 16 2008, 06:56 AM)
I got banned I have a Benq drive. Also one of my Friends got banned he also has a Benq Drive. Ixteme .1.4 on both Drives. Played a GOW2 3 weeks before relase date.
Can you expand on that, did you have the cable unplugged the whole time?
Post by: Jorsher on November 15, 2008, 09:32:00 PM
QUOTE(LaX 911 @ Nov 15 2008, 11:40 PM)
I noticed that one all the test you ran with backups, they were with games that hadn't been released publicly yet. What about backups of already released games?
That's what I'm curious about.
Also, did all those games pass checks?
Post by: ka-b00m on November 15, 2008, 09:38:00 PM
QUOTE(Jorsher @ Nov 16 2008, 05:08 AM)
That's what I'm curious about.
Also, did all those games pass checks?
what if the database for checking game data is wrong?
Post by: Jorsher on November 15, 2008, 10:56:00 PM
QUOTE(thuglord @ Nov 16 2008, 12:35 AM)
You guys are hilarious. All you people who claim that you modded your 360 to make backup copies of purchased games are complete liars. I should know because I was just like you and I learned my lesson. That is right I got banned last year for a modded console. I enjoyed live so much that I went and got another 360 and now I purchase all of my games. It is enjoyable reading these comments with the satisfaction that I won't be banned.
Now that your banned, enjoy your spindles and spindles of burned games that you play one time and put it on the bottom of the spindle. Just don't lie about it. You either downloaded a game from a newsgroup, ripped it from a Blockbuster rental, or got it from a torrent site.
Have fun playing your ripped copy of COD5 on your banned console. Peace losers.
You contributed so much to the thread.
Thanks for your comment!
Just have an interest in how they're being detected.
QUOTE(ka-b00m @ Nov 16 2008, 12:14 AM)
what if the database for checking game data is wrong?
What if Microsoft has midgets with mobile phones hiding in your Xbox to tell Microsoft when people run pirated games?
Question still stands, whether the database is right or wrong, it's another thing that can help narrow down what flags for the bans.
And, lol, thuglord -- lord of thugs.
Post by: imaphaggit on November 15, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
What if a game isnt in there on the release date?
Plus Thuglord I got 2 xboxs 1 for live and another modded. So I will enjoy my spindles and spindles of games.
Dummy.
Post by: MickRick on November 16, 2008, 04:39:00 AM
QUOTE(thuglord @ Nov 16 2008, 05:35 AM)
Now that your banned, enjoy your spindles and spindles of burned games that you play one time and put it on the bottom of the spindle. Just don't lie about it. You either downloaded a game from a newsgroup, ripped it from a Blockbuster rental, or got it from a torrent site.
Just a minute! XBS "pirates" are a lot more intelligent than you give them credit for. They keep their backups in folders, not spindles dumbass.
Post by: ej2095 on November 16, 2008, 04:48:00 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/
And complain enough people moan etc etc
Post by: troy2000 on November 16, 2008, 06:26:00 AM
QUOTE(LaX 911 @ Nov 16 2008, 05:40 AM)
I noticed that one all the test you ran with backups, they were with games that hadn't been released publicly yet. What about backups of already released games?
From my reading of various ban reports, I found that the majority of banned users had played either "Mirror's Edge", "Gears Of War 2", or "Call Of Duty: World At War" early. I suspected them to be the cause, thus I used them in the tests.
If necessary, just for verification, I can try loading long released backups on another console while connected to Xbox LIVE.
QUOTE(Jorsher)
That's what I'm curious about.
Also, did all those games pass checks?
During Stealth-checking with XDVDMulletter, "Gears Of War 2" and "Call Of Duty: World At War" did not appear on the database, however still showed essential sectors in-tact. "Mirror's Edge" was on the database, and it was found to have no problems.
Post by: troy2000 on November 16, 2008, 08:28:00 AM
QUOTE(SmackR @ Nov 16 2008, 03:44 PM)
Thanks Troy, please try that.
The bans on Cod: WoW, GoW2 and MEdge could also be M$ slapping down bans simply for making a guess that they must be backups given that they've been played early. Generally you could obtain a legitimate copy 2-3 days before release date and go on live, M$ knows this but perhaps they just banned people they found playing the games 1 or more weeks prior to the official release date?
That certainly sounds likely.
I have set up another Xbox 360 console, modified with iXtreme 1.4 and running a backup of "Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2". The console will remain connected to Xbox LIVE for around 5 hours to see if it is banned. If it is not, this will mean that we have probably found the source of the bans.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 16, 2008, 08:34:00 AM
QUOTE(thuglord @ Nov 16 2008, 05:35 AM)
Have fun playing your ripped copy of COD5 on your banned console. Peace losers.
Will do... if banned... even harder...
QUOTE(Jorsher @ Nov 16 2008, 06:32 AM)
What if Microsoft has midgets with mobile phones hiding in your Xbox to tell Microsoft when people run pirated games?
I killed that midget when i modded my XBOX... I grabbed his mobile phone and shove it up his ass...
Post by: notrain on November 16, 2008, 10:21:00 AM
Remember when the first banning wave occured in 2006? Back then, it was agreed upon that bad game dumps were to blame (corrupted and/or missing security files). It was also discovered, that anti copy protection software which installs ring 0 level drivers into your system to circumvent stuff like DVD Movie copy protection or PC-Game copy protection could corrupt the iso file structure.
Therefore, C4Eva created iExtreme, to at least prevent the booting of bad burns with missing security files and everyone thought that was actually the underlying problem. It was not, but I'll come to that in a bit.
Then, in late 2007, the second banning wave began. Initially, this was -again- blamed to bad game dumps. C4Eva himself speculated, that "contaminated/marked" ISOs got released, which Microsoft used to tag modified consoles. Only weeks later, C4Eva retracted this statement, and revealed an error in iExtreme, which was of course also present in the old Xtreme Firmwares - the disc jitter correction. In short, the firmware produced a detectable error with 359° Angle security sectors.
In fact, this error was most likely the cause for all pre IExtreme 1.4 ban waves . I checked all my retail games, and the earliest game which had a 359° Angle in its security sector was Project Gotham Racing 3 (PAL) - a launch title. So it is likely that Microsoft used the angle detection all along, "we" just did not know about it. When each ban wave hit, initially tampered isos were always assumed to be the culprit, but they never were to blame for the bans. It was a bug in the modified firmware which simply remained undiscovered for nearly 2 years until iextreme 1.4.
Hence it is most logical to assume that instead of leaked review copies, another bug in the iextreme 1.4 firmware is being abused to detect the consoles this time around as well. C4Eva just has to discover the underlying cause, if he is even still interested in xbox360 hacking, who knows.
This post is not intended to criticise C4Eva, he has done excellent work and is in no way to blame for any of the things that happened. He provided useful software free of charge under great personal risk, so (still) kudos to him and if he ever reads this: Thanks for all you did.
Post by: n8thegr8 on November 16, 2008, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: hyfall381 on November 16, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
today i fixed a friends modded 360. back sometime in july or august, it got the 3 red lights. he had a 2nd xbox, so there was no rush to get it fixed.
so for the last few months, he had it stored away (literally 'stored away'.. packed in the closet).
today i was bored, so i fixed it via x-clamp fix. i turned it on and it worked fine.
so then i turned it off and plugged an ethernet cord into it.
within a few seconds of turning it on again, it said a security update was available. so i did the update.
after the update, it was banned!
again, this xbox hadnt been played with any backups in a few months, and i didnt have a game in it at all. it did the update, and was banned right away.
i agree that playing early releases will cause people to be banned. thats a givin. but thats not the case here.
what do all of you think of this?
edit - its a hitachi 47. sorry.. i dont remember which fw.
Post by: brandogg on November 16, 2008, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: brandogg on November 17, 2008, 12:28:00 AM
Post by: pacorabanne on November 17, 2008, 12:33:00 PM
All ip's adresses coming to this forum will be stored by microsoft.
When they see you got your console modded youl be banned.
All other forums about this subject will be followed.
Post by: tomgreen99200 on November 17, 2008, 12:47:00 PM
Heres what i have:
Hitachi 79 with ixtreme 1.4 @ 12x. It only had two firmwares on it. The original and ixtreme 1.4. I did go online with the original before i upgraded to 1.4.
I upgraded with the xbox360 power so i did turn on the 360 without a dvd drive once.
All games were stealth checked with mulleter or ABGX. I did play early releases and review copies.
I guess i have alot of red flags and i deserve to be banned. This is my second time getting banned(i got banned in last years wave). Time to go buy another console for LIVE (just like i had before my second console went RROD)
Post by: hyfall381 on November 17, 2008, 01:42:00 PM
QUOTE(pacorabanne @ Nov 17 2008, 09:09 PM)
You fools.
All ip's adresses coming to this forum will be stored by microsoft.
When they see you got your console modded youl be banned.
All other forums about this subject will be followed.
im not so sure thats true. besides, not EVERYONE who has a modded 360 posts on these forums. my buddy at work got banned during that banning when crackdown was released. and he never posted here before.
and there are other people who post here all the time and havent been banned.
Post by: Delta-2-4 on November 17, 2008, 02:14:00 PM
i think they tried
a lot of 12x getting banned i have seen
Post by: Chancer on November 17, 2008, 02:43:00 PM
QUOTE(pacorabanne @ Nov 17 2008, 08:09 PM)
You fools.
All ip's adresses coming to this forum will be stored by microsoft.
When they see you got your console modded youl be banned.
All other forums about this subject will be followed.
No you are the fool for believing such a load of ...well....bollocks really
Post by: apokazoil on November 17, 2008, 03:29:00 PM
I sent you a PM regarding ban testing and formatting the hard-drive before connecting to live. I think we're on to something.
Post by: jackattack_200897 on November 17, 2008, 04:18:00 PM
We go back from a long time ago on here. I have been in the scene for a long time ever since C-64/Apple.
I was wondering if you could or someone could start a thread with just the pertinent information so we can possibly figure this out?
I am willing to start a database out of the results and compile them, in M$ Access, lol.
I have a good idea why, but I have to be sure and wait it out like I stated in my previous posts.
I am going to go online and download trial games only and play them offline only (single player), if I get banned, then I get banned, and I then know for sure that they can detect modded firmware rather than backups or early releases. I am going to do this for about 1 week or so, then go online and play originals only. If at this time I get banned, I know they detect the firmware online only while playing on live.
If I do not get banned, I will play a backup of original Halo 3, wait a week, see if that is a problem and if I get banned, wait a few weeks, then I will then move on to Gears of War 2 original backup and see if that gets me banned.
Anyway we will know within a month or so the truth, and the truth shall set you free, lol.
Also if C4eva is around and listening, please post your thoughts regarding this.
thanks,
I also meant Ixtreme 1.4 typo oops in my previous post.
Post by: JJDJay on November 17, 2008, 05:52:00 PM
My Elite has a BenQ flashed with IXtreme 1.4 x8.
I have played backups while connected to live, the backups have been out for a couple of months or so. Although I've been playing retail copies of SR2, GoW2, and Fallout 3 before the banning ever started. I haven't got around to backing them up yet. I have not played any backups since SR2 came out.
I did not play any of those games early.
As of last night my Elite has not been banned yet. If it does, oh well, I'll just buy another one.
My brother has the same setup and has not been banned yet either.
Post by: UB6_IB9 on November 17, 2008, 08:31:00 PM
Post by: BobRock on November 17, 2008, 09:22:00 PM
I believe that one question has not been asked yet: what do you think will happen on 11/19 when NXE is released? Will M$ use the update as a yet another scanning tool to ban even more people?
Post by: Broomop on November 17, 2008, 09:42:00 PM
Post by: nathaniel_04 on November 18, 2008, 10:52:00 AM
Post by: jackattack_200897 on November 18, 2008, 11:11:00 AM
Wow, took some real brains to come up with that one huh?
I think you should be banned just for making a stupid unimportant comment.
Post by: widow maker on November 18, 2008, 12:30:00 PM
Post by: gamer082009 on November 18, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
The Xbox 360 was made by MICROSOFT, I'm sure they'll always find a way to know what's going on inside of a system they DESIGNED and they MADE. You can't hide from that point. Just because Microsoft doesn't ban every last modder doesn't mean that they don't know you modded your console, it's just they only ban so many thousand people periodically. If you ask me they got the ban wave out just in time to clear up some of the people applying weight on Xbox LIVE's servers (I guess they wanna make space for the honest console owners in their mind). And they want you to go out and buy more Xbox 360 consoles so they can hit their 25-million sold before this month is out that they've been bragging about. They banned me and I went and bought another 360 a few days ago from Gamestop. So congrats to Microsoft, mission accomplished. I now have two 360's, one for backups and the other for originals. And the NXE will surely move Microsoft evennnnn further ahead of the hackers. So the only thing is to hope you don't make the ban list because they will always know, they're Microsoft.
Post by: brandogg on November 18, 2008, 02:05:00 PM
QUOTE(nathaniel_04 @ Nov 18 2008, 01:28 PM)
I have been told by a rep at Microsoft that if you unscrew any of the screws on the 360 motherboard it will release code telling Microsoft system to ban the system. So beware and good luck. Stick with Xlink
That's the stupidest load of shit I've ever read. That doesn't even begin to make sense, or ever enter the realm of possibility.
Post by: Darkshape on November 18, 2008, 03:03:00 PM
Synchronizing the internal game list timestamps with real time is beyond simple.
Example;
I set my 360's clock ahead 3 weeks, I then pop in a naughty verson of a leaked game.
The xbox now records "Game, Date" into its internal memory.
Now i change my xbox's clock once again 3 weeks forward, as soon as i do this, as part of the xbox's time change program, it applies the same change to the stored list. Its as simple as comparing old time, to new time, get the difference, apply the difference to all the stored values.
This creates a system that no matter what you do, when you connect to xbox live, and it synchronizes to real time, it will always see the true played dates of all your games / achievements, whatever it wants to record.
Recording game played dates is a very valid and easy method for MS to use as a flag, no amount of changing game dates would ever make a difference is MS didnt want it to.
Course it would probably be used in combination of other method / flags im sure, as it is likely that some people do legitimately gain access to pre-release retail but ide assume it raises a "Investigate me" flag at the very least.
Post by: jackattack_200897 on November 18, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
especially about unscrewing your xbox, what they have a sensor that connects wirelessly and then transmits to M$, what a bunch of crock. I personally have open numerous Xbox 360s and there is nothing inside except a stupid sticker that can tell someone if you opened an Xbox 360 or not and this is not 100% because there are ways to do it undetectable so as not to void your warranty.
I do have a valid theory here and it may be point us to know how in fact they are detecting you either by firmware or backups. I am willing to risk one of my 360s in getting banned to try out my theory. I know someone else is also trying so we will see.
Theory:
If I am able to play my own originals online and not get banned, then we should know for sure if they can detect the firmware. I will then wait two or three weeks and then play my own created backups from original games, if then they ban me, it is because they can detect the backup media, not the firmware.
I truly believe it was a review copy of either Saint Row 2 or early releases that have gotten people banned and not the firmware only.
I have logged into live several times a day, and not been banned yet on either of my two systems.
As of yesterday still not banned, been logging in 3 days or so on both systems.
So we will see what happens.
Moderators can you please lock this thread as it is going no where.
Also if you have questions pm me because I will not post my results on here. I will however pm you my results.
Either way, wish me luck.
Post by: BobRock on November 18, 2008, 05:19:00 PM
QUOTE(gamer082009 @ Nov 18 2008, 03:56 PM)
...because they will always know, they're Microsoft.
If they were that good, don't you think they would be able to ban you automatically as soon as you connect with modded xbox?
Post by: brandogg on November 18, 2008, 10:28:00 PM
QUOTE(nathaniel_04 @ Nov 18 2008, 07:58 PM)
Well good luck, But the theory came from the rep at Microsoft. This is not my wording. So it just maybe a scare tatic, but who knows.
No, this theory came out of someone's ass. If by rep at Microsoft you mean 1-800-4-my-xbox, then that's some guy in India working at a call center, reading a script without a fucking clue as to what they're actually talking about. If by rep at Microsoft you mean anything else, then they're just fucking with you. Jesus Christ that's seriously the stupidest thing I've ever read on these forums. Not trying to flame you, since apparently you were told by a "rep at Microsoft", but you are the messenger of this bullshit.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 18, 2008, 10:42:00 PM
Post by: lancer on November 19, 2008, 05:29:00 AM
Post by: gaznaldo on November 19, 2008, 06:37:00 AM
Quote
Post by: Chancer on November 19, 2008, 07:47:00 AM
QUOTE
Basically my point is, they know about EVERYONE who has a hacked console
How you dare call the other guy a simpleton is laughable after that comment.
QUOTE
Trust me, THEY KNOW!!!
Prove it.
Post by: PowderDay on November 19, 2008, 10:11:00 AM
I don't buy this line of crap for 1 second. Lets see, I buy a console, mod it, and play free games. M$ adds 1 more user to their ever so important user base figures, just like people using pirated windows. Take those people away, M$ looses their edge in the market convining devs that they are the lead console in sales.
If I don't buy it, M$ gets nothing at all. So in a way, pirates are helping M$. Yes, they are screwing the devs, but as you said, if you can't afford it, they wont be getting your money no matter what.
If M$ really cared that much about piracy, there would be a lot more bannings ever day, not a once and a while group ban.
Post by: tvdang7 on November 19, 2008, 12:59:00 PM
Post by: userix on November 19, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: ka-b00m on November 19, 2008, 03:18:00 PM
QUOTE(userix @ Nov 19 2008, 09:47 PM)
Can I get banned just for signing onto Live without playing a backup or having a backup disc in my drive? Or are all the bans that are occurring because of people playing backups on Live?
I think most ppl got banned because they played major games before release date. Maybe others get nailed because of "bad backups" logged to LIVE...
For exemple, in my case, i did not do anything of these things... so no ban so far... it does not mean that i ain't flagged an my ass won't be kicked in next wave of bans...
Post by: ccfman2004 on November 20, 2008, 04:13:00 AM
Post by: gamer082009 on November 20, 2008, 09:29:00 AM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 19 2008, 09:23 AM)
How you dare call the other guy a simpleton is laughable after that comment.
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 19 2008, 09:23 AM)
Prove it.
Well, it's not about proving anything, it's really common sense! If YOU "Chancer" of all people honestly believe Microsoft doesn't know about every modder then I laugh at you too. Whenever something is connected to the Internet your privacy and hiding is pretty much gone. You can't hide behind a "iXtreme" firmware, and REALISTICALLY think Microsoft has no clue about what's going on and doesn't know who's running it on their consoles. I'll say this again....Microsoft designed and created the Xbox 360, they know their hardware and the tricks & trades of it better than anybody else, PERIOD! I really think Microsoft knows about every last modders console out-there running a changed firmware or chipped unit when turned on to Xbox LIVE. And when I say modded and hacked I obviously mean chipd/firmware altering. Heck they have the ability to blow eFuses for christ sakes without you knowing a damn thing!
Post by: ka-b00m on November 20, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
QUOTE(gamer082009 @ Nov 20 2008, 05:05 PM)
Well, it's not about proving anything, it's really common sense! If YOU "Chancer" of all people honestly believe Microsoft doesn't know about every modder then I laugh at you too. Whenever something is connected to the Internet your privacy and hiding is pretty much gone. You can't hide behind a "iXtreme" firmware, and REALISTICALLY think Microsoft has no clue about what's going on and doesn't know who's running it on their consoles. I'll say this again....Microsoft designed and created the Xbox 360, they know their hardware and the tricks & trades of it better than anybody else, PERIOD! I really think Microsoft knows about every last modders console out-there running a changed firmware or chipped unit when turned on to Xbox LIVE. And when I say modded and hacked I obviously mean chipd/firmware altering. Heck they have the ability to blow eFuses for christ sakes without you knowing a damn thing!
Nonsence... if they knew what the hell was going on i would be already banned... Some ppl are just dumb and play games before relase date, on a LIVE profile... Everytime they log to LIVE shit gets updated to M$ servers... GamerScore, Recent games played (Last played on LIVE), etc.. etc...
But if i eventually get banned i don't care... I don't use the XBOX LIVE service...
Post by: Chancer on November 20, 2008, 01:10:00 PM
QUOTE(gamer082009 @ Nov 20 2008, 05:05 PM)
Well, it's not about proving anything, it's really common sense! If YOU "Chancer" of all people honestly believe Microsoft doesn't know about every modder then I laugh at you too. Whenever something is connected to the Internet your privacy and hiding is pretty much gone. You can't hide behind a "iXtreme" firmware, and REALISTICALLY think Microsoft has no clue about what's going on and doesn't know who's running it on their consoles. I'll say this again....Microsoft designed and created the Xbox 360, they know their hardware and the tricks & trades of it better than anybody else, PERIOD! I really think Microsoft knows about every last modders console out-there running a changed firmware or chipped unit when turned on to Xbox LIVE. And when I say modded and hacked I obviously mean chipd/firmware altering. Heck they have the ability to blow eFuses for christ sakes without you knowing a damn thing!
They don't know about every modder and if you believe it then you are mistaken.
If they already know then why are you not displaying your gamertag and XBL details.
Prove it and I may release a source to you that will kick your theory in the bollocks
NOTE
Stop naming releases you have downloaded. The people that have have been suspended.
Post by: ka-b00m on November 20, 2008, 01:21:00 PM
QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 20 2008, 08:46 PM)
They don't know about every modder and if you believe it then you are mistaken.
If they already know then why are you not displaying your gamertag and XBL details.
Prove it and I may release a source to you that will kick your theory in the bollocks
NOTE
Stop naming releases you have downloaded. The people that have have been suspended.
lol... what the hell are you hidding from us...
Post by: smokafatty on November 20, 2008, 11:21:00 PM
Post by: brandogg on November 20, 2008, 11:27:00 PM
Post by: RiceCake on November 21, 2008, 09:45:00 PM
For Microsoft, they could detect the firmware, software is really the only connection they have to the drive in this situation. However, reading the chip relies on the software written to it complying, so it can be easily spoofed.
In other words, you give way too much credit for detecting modifications. There are plenty of hacks out there that have never been detected and never will, mostly because they remain a secret. Contrary to popular belief a lot of hackers I know out there would rather not see a huge fiasco caused by their software getting leaked out to the masses. Noobs typically jump on it, fuck up the service, then bitch and whine when they get banned or scammed trying to get back on.
But what does make detecting the hack really easy? Well, every single pressed 360 game should be identical, and we're burning backups to a disk that in all respect, is enormously different. The firmware's good, but its no genius. It relies heavily on a good burn, and applies the minor patches that can't be burnt to make the disk "identical" to the system.
That, well, and playing games that are impossible to get, such as retail test disks that would never be given to anyone but strictly known, authorized users. Its still looking like people are getting banned for exactly what they were told not to do; playing outside the norm by playing backups they can't possibly know are good in the first place.
Well, or making an honest error that the Microsoft "Kill-U-Some-Day Ban Flagger 3000" picks up on and sets a death clock on your LiveID.
Post by: RiceCake on November 21, 2008, 11:41:00 PM
I would assume Microsoft will flag offline users for modifications but that's something I can't confirm.
Post by: Havok on November 22, 2008, 05:59:00 PM
QUOTE(S_T_S_OM @ Nov 22 2008, 05:10 PM)
let me get it straight, if i log in to the XBOXLIVE with a modified console, i will get banned right?
when did the ban-wave start?
and 1 last thing, does any1 know when is it gonna end?
Ban waves don't start and end.. MS flags the console for banning continuously of time... As long as you never have the network cable plugged in while a backup is in the system you should be OK.
Post by: nortnil on November 23, 2008, 05:42:00 PM
Post by: ddaniels on November 23, 2008, 08:19:00 PM
Think of it like looking at device manager, hardware tab in Windows XP. You expand the plus sign next to video card and it will show you what model you have.
This is just my two cents.
Post by: dangerouseddy on November 23, 2008, 08:39:00 PM
Post by: A Cow on November 23, 2008, 09:20:00 PM
QUOTE(Guidor @ Nov 12 2008, 11:52 AM)
It was a perfectly intelligent post. So because you don't agree with game prices that makes it Ok for you to steal? A games console is a luxary item and not a right in life so if you cant afford it don't get one. Maybe try getting a better paid job. Don't make an excuse for you to steal somebodies hard work.
pft modding consoles is for the weak...
i just want into my local ebgames with a shotgun and an AR and tell em to load up my bag with all the latest games once every week. Don't gota worry about getting banned
( for anyone who thinks im serious.. thats is all )
Post by: here2rock on November 23, 2008, 11:15:00 PM
Post by: jarret08 on November 25, 2008, 02:27:00 AM
A man who is born in 1940, and they say he modded his box!
His box was in april in service. And his box was fixed after an ROD. He played 4 Games und Too Human with me in coop. So for what he should flash his drive???
But no chance. MS dont care.
Only want you to know. Not only modders got banned.
Post by: wickedd on November 25, 2008, 03:23:00 AM
Post by: jarret08 on November 25, 2008, 04:19:00 AM
QUOTE(wickedd @ Nov 25 2008, 11:59 AM)
you just dont know anything about your dad
Not anything. Yep. But I know that his 360 isnt flashed or modded in anyway.
MS repaired his 360 in April 08 without any problems. You really think they done this if his 360 were flashed?
He bought his 360 in 2006. So why who should wait with the flash until June 2008? If he want to the 360 were allready flashed in 2006. Didnt you think.
Post by: randellroff on November 30, 2008, 01:07:00 AM
QUOTE(nortnil @ Nov 24 2008, 02:18 AM)
That's my question also. Microsoft has no way of detecting if the firmware on the drive is the original or not?
Thirded. Can I just play original games thru Xbox Live regardless of having a modded system?
Post by: Reaper527 on November 30, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
QUOTE(Haygar @ Nov 22 2008, 12:52 AM)
Does this still apply to playing said backups totally offline or is that an unknown ?
QUOTE(Havok @ Nov 22 2008, 08:35 PM)
Ban waves don't start and end.. MS flags the console for banning continuously of time... As long as you never have the network cable plugged in while a backup is in the system you should be OK.
there is speculation that the system keeps an offline log, stored on a flashchip in a file called secdata.bin. personally i wouldn't recommend playing bad backups at all on a system that will ever connect to live.
Post by: headonism on November 30, 2008, 05:46:00 PM
my internet is working fine!!!!!!!
i will find out tomorow when i phone them...
the time was 23:30hrs
Post by: Analyzer52 on November 30, 2008, 06:39:00 PM
Post by: nortnil on December 03, 2008, 08:38:00 PM
Any sure fire way to do this or is it still kind of up in the air with the new ban wave?
Post by: redsoxrule on December 04, 2008, 10:24:00 AM
Post by: ghaladream on December 04, 2008, 11:37:00 AM
Post by: nortnil on December 06, 2008, 07:12:00 PM
Post by: Roupus on December 06, 2008, 09:07:00 PM
Post by: Chancer on December 07, 2008, 03:47:00 AM
QUOTE(Roupus @ Dec 7 2008, 04:43 AM)
Do you think that Microsoft just comes on sites such as these and looks at say a thread like this one with xboxlive issues and ppl come and post that their console is modded and these ppl that are boasting about their modded consoles have also linked their gamertag to their xboxscene profile. so microsoft decides to take a closer look at these particular profiles and find out that their console is in fact modded.
No.
You can't ban someone just because they claim something on the internet.
Post by: nortnil on December 09, 2008, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: playerman on December 10, 2008, 10:38:00 AM
QUOTE(Millerboy3 @ Dec 10 2008, 06:08 AM)
this is my guess so far.
First thing.Sorry for my english
Second thing i have my own solution for banning.I dont know is it good or not but still im using it and i wasnt banned so far (Xbox Elite with samsung ms28 spoofed as liteon) and im playing bad rips and pre-realesed games(but not on xbox live).
Solution: I have two profiles: 1 on on my hard drive and second one on my 512mb memory unit.
If i want to play on the live with my original game i just connect my memory unit with live gamertag disconect my hard drive and im playing.If I want to play on bad rips, pre-realesed games or any other backups i just disconnect lan cable and memory unit ,connect hard drive and playing.
In that way Microsoft cannot check the date when i was playing on my backup games because they only can see my online profile from memory unit where im playing only original games
Mayby it gonna be helpful.See Ya
Post by: Reaper527 on December 10, 2008, 12:19:00 PM
QUOTE(playerman @ Dec 10 2008, 01:14 PM)
First thing.Sorry for my english
Second thing i have my own solution for banning.I dont know is it good or not but still im using it and i wasnt banned so far (Xbox Elite with samsung ms28 spoofed as liteon) and im playing bad rips and pre-realesed games(but not on xbox live).
Solution: I have two profiles: 1 on on my hard drive and second one on my 512mb memory unit.
If i want to play on the live with my original game i just connect my memory unit with live gamertag disconect my hard drive and im playing.If I want to play on bad rips, pre-realesed games or any other backups i just disconnect lan cable and memory unit ,connect hard drive and playing.
In that way Microsoft cannot check the date when i was playing on my backup games because they only can see my online profile from memory unit where im playing only original games
Mayby it gonna be helpful.See Ya
that might protect you right now, but it won't necessarily protect you in the future. your method doesn't take secdata.bin into account. (a file stored in a flash chip on the motherboard, which keeps information about the games your playing).
ms could easily use this data in the future to ban people if they wanted to.
if you really want to be safe, rip your own discs
Post by: nortnil on December 10, 2008, 03:37:00 PM
Post by: Reaper527 on December 10, 2008, 04:05:00 PM
QUOTE(nortnil @ Dec 10 2008, 06:13 PM)
Is the flash chip that stores the secdata.bin on all xboxes or is it only present on the newer models?
all. the chip didn't have the secdata.bin on it until after a certain dashboard upgrade though. i dont remember which update it was, but its irrelevant, as if you care about live, you have it.
Post by: nortnil on December 10, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
Post by: St Louis 420 on December 12, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
QUOTE(phunk @ Nov 12 2008, 09:02 AM)
I really dont see whay so many people are trying to justify piracy just because they think games are overpriced.
Cars (and lets face it, most other consumer goods) are ridiculously overpriced - do these people see carjacking as ok? No, didn't think so.
The basic upshot is, MS want you to pay for the games that developers spent 2-3 years making. I dont think that's too much to ask, considering that is their revenue stream.
Pricing itself is another issue; I agree that £40-£50 for shovelware is a rip-off, but no one is holding a gun to your head to make you buy and/or play games. Its a choice you can make. Dont want to pay? Then dont play. Simple.
Now if like me (and many others), your 360 has chewed the shit out of your discs, then I can definately see a a valid point in being able to legally make backups and play them. The problem is, that allows all the moochers and freeloaders to play copies of games they have no intention of paying for. Unfortunately its a double-edged sword. If MS had the decency to replace discs that have been ruined by their shitty dvd drives, then the whole 'backup' issue becomes a moot point. All you'd have to do would be return the disc for a replacement, and problem solved!
They do if u buy your games at game crazy disk protection cost 3 dollars extra and they replace scratched and even broken disk for free with receipt for a year. cost another 3 dollars for disk protection on the new disk though. But i will gladly pay 3 dollars for a replacement