Print Page - The End Of The 3 Red Lights!

Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat => Topic started by: Baraka MKD on March 13, 2007, 02:44:00 PM

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Baraka MKD on March 13, 2007, 02:44:00 PM

Yes it's true, the solution is an eraser (I'm not kidding) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Sounds funny but it really works.

The memories of the xbox 360 are sucks, it needs a "foot" to continue working. The "foot" is an eraser, you will need to cut it in 4 lite piece and a glue baton to fix the eraser.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/stampbr/mod360-3.jpg)
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/stampbr/mod360-4.jpg)

The memories in the back of the mother-board:

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/stampbr/mod360-2.jpg)

The eraser with glue:

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/stampbr/mod360-5.jpg)

Some people have sucess with this mod and they xbox 360 are working fine months and months.
This discover have been done by Chiaroscuro from the www.portalxbox.com.br (this is not spam, its only a credit for the author of this brilliant discover).

Thanks people,
Thanks Chiaroscuro!

This post has been edited by Baraka MKD: Mar 13 2007, 09:46 PM

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Heat-Ronin on March 13, 2007, 04:40:00 PM

Hmm... Does this fix already existing problems

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: crosseye on March 13, 2007, 05:42:00 PM

Why on earth would this work? Are they just not firmly in place and these press them in? Also, does this fix systems that are red lighting, or it's supposed to "prevent".

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Heet on March 13, 2007, 05:30:00 PM

Eraser for thermal pads? And yes, they are the sucks.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: GreenStang99 on March 13, 2007, 06:14:00 PM

I guess this is worth a shot for someone with a 3 red lights error with nothing left to lose.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: atomiX on March 13, 2007, 07:12:00 PM

Might not be for thermal dissipation but to possibly press in dry solder joints. Might work but I don't see this as being the ultimate solution. I can see bad joints being a possible cause of these red light errors after seeing a difference after performing the heatgun fix.

If the box is still under warranty, sending it to MS is the way to go.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: luizcra on March 13, 2007, 07:26:00 PM

this is for broken xbox! if you have nothing to lose try it ... it has a much bigger tutorial in other language so you have to be careful with some things if you are going to try it but it seens to be working (at least for error 0102) for peoplewho tried...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 13, 2007, 07:28:00 PM

Although I applaud the "cheap" repairs, this is just about retarded. Yes, it will put pressure on the chips. However, it will raise temps. ESPECIALLY if GLUE is used.

Also, I just got mine apart for the first time and I am confused. A lot of people keep saying that the back plate is used to cool the memory - this is just not true. The chips mostly sit in the "ravines", so there is just air trapped in there. I need to see how much clearance there is between the board and the case, it may be worth cutting away that whole area of the RF shield.

This post has been edited by brywalker: Mar 14 2007, 02:29 AM

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: william di mase on March 13, 2007, 07:36:00 PM

Here in Brazil, this guy its a hero - the 360 cost U$ 1300,00 more or less.
I will put the text from Chiaroscuro, translated:

"Now, a bit of my experience with 3RLs. My console started to stop. In the start, only once in a while. Later frequent, then after to initiate a game. In the end, it gave fatal the 3 red lights. The console of my brother gave problem the same, but of it it stopped with graphical errors in the screen. Mine it congealed the screen, of it it gave devices, in general the screen it was with square-lined aspect. I tried some solutions in two consoles: to heat the Chips, to try to strengthen the weld of CPU and GPU with a pistol of heat, etc. Came back to function, but after some days, the problem returned. In the end of much experience, I discovered the cause of the problem: bad contact in the four memories located in the inferior part of motherboard. Really, to place the memories there, or redor of the GPU that produces very, more much same heat, and to use weld BGA without lead in these memories was not a good idea of project The problem is that the esquenta GPU, amolece the weld, and with the time, the gravity it pulls the memories for low, causing the bad contact. It does not matter if its console is in the horizontal line or vertical, the gravity acts the same of skill in these memories. If I pressured these memories, the console I came back to function. But soon the gravity caused again the bad contact. A type of chock to keep the memories in the place was necessary. I tested some materials and I arrived the presented solution below. Not it needs to make no physical modification in the console (it can revert easily for the original state), none fan additional is necessary, nor to reweld none chip. It is very simple and efficient. The memories in itself do not heat, who heats is the GPU (and it passes the heat for the memories). The rubber is optimum material for this mod, therefore he is isolating thermal and electric. The important one is to pressure the memories they to be well imprisoned in the plate-mother."

Complementing the topic, after pass glue in rubbers, Chiaroscuro says that, if when binding the 360 and it still will be presenting 3RLs or some error, if does not worry, is normal, therefore some heat is necessary it to function of the first time. On one per the one 5 10 minutes leaves 360. You go to perceive that the spendthrifts heat very (he imagines then the GPU and the memories below of them). - Passed 10 minutes, he disconnect the console. Soon, the heat amoleceu the weld of the memories, and the pressure of the chocks placed they in the place and goes to hinder exactly that they leave again, with the heat of the GPU (the weld can come back to soft, but the rubber arrests the memory in the place). The problem must have disappeared and now the 360 always bind of first (heat its necessary only in the first time that you it makes I fix it). The times can bind already of first, but as the memories were half untied, can be necessary to wait this first heat one.

In Brazil, his discovery help many guys with broken 360.
Sorry my english

This post has been edited by william di mase: Mar 14 2007, 02:44 AM

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: luizcra on March 13, 2007, 07:40:00 PM

the theory of this is that the problem is not the temperature!!the base of this is to put the memory chips in place because they move no matter hat you do when it gets hot . (it may be wrong but people are saying it works)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Radioedit420 on March 13, 2007, 07:45:00 PM

I wont beleive it until a reputable member from here at X-S tries it and posts his result

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: william di mase on March 13, 2007, 08:00:00 PM

QUOTE(Radioedit420 @ Mar 13 2007, 10:16 PM)

I wont beleive it until a reputable member from here at X-S tries it and posts his result

You say that because a brazilian discover this. We are accustomed. Walk-man its brazilian invetion; the airplane was invented by Santos Dumon't, and not for the Wright brothers. But, all good. In a little time an American goes to test and you goes to believe. Later, you go speak that who discovered was an American. But, all good.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 08:13:00 PM

Hello folks, let me explain some points about this mod.
I am brazilian too and for a long time I don't speak or write in english. Said that, try to understand the points and talk about them and not about our bad english. English are not our native languague in the same way that brazilian portuguese are not yours.

This post was blocked once as being spama and it's not the case.

I will try to explain what some people have discovered and how they fixed A LOT of Xbox 360 with this mod.

This mod was made to FIX 3RL (code 0102 and others) and proved to be efficient with a lot of bricked 360. Even some that were fixed with a towel or a hot gun and had 3RL again were fixed with this simple and inexpensive mod.

Someone discovered that his bricke xbox could boot when he put some pressure over the memories. He did that with a "paper weight". When he removed the pressure over the memories the 3RL appeared again. What was the conclusion? Failure, bad contact, bad joints or cracked solder joints.

Then a guy named Chiaroscuro at www.portalxbox.com.br did this mod and a lot of people did too with success. I counted until now 15 bricked xbox fixed with this simple fix.

Now let's talk about the mod.
What he did was cut 4 pieces of a eraser, put some glue on them and put them on the memories on the back side of the motherboard.
These pieces of eraser were about 4mm of thickness.
When mounting the motherboard, the eraser will put pressure over the memories. That's the point, put pressure over the memories.
It sounds crazy but is true. A lot of bricked 360 that was not fixed with a hot gun was fixed with a simple pressure over the memories. What the fuck, hehehe. I already counted 15 fixed 360 with a simple eraser. And the count continues to rise.

A lot of people is asking why do that if warranty exists. NOT HERE IN BRAZIL. Here we can buy a 360 for US$ 730. And these are in the cheapest places, bought with no warranty, bought illegally, because of the tremendous taxes that we pay here. Again... what the fuck??
After paying US$ 700 with no warranty and have a bricked 360 that's what we are trying to do, just fix that shit.

Ok, we can buy a legal 360 here, launched officialy but for that we have to pay JUST US$ 1370. Ok, now we have warranty. And yes, it's 1.37k and not US$ 370.

And what is MY opinion about bricked 360. The memory for me is always the guilty, not the GPU. I think that Microsoft is already receiven memory below the specs of 700MHz and are mounting them to continue the suply. What they are doing to me? Overclocking the memory. Overclocking the memory causes a lot of heat and can brick the system. This last paragraph is just my opinion but the rest is all true.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 07:55:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 13 2007, 09:59 PM)

Brywalker, my 360 came with some kind of pink elastomer over the memories on the back side of the mother-board. It's a soft material and it keeps contact with both memories and RF shield. If I want to give a try for this mod I will have to remove that kind of elastomer that looks like a bubble gum.
Then your theory of raising the temp is not true. It will be true if this kind of elastomer serves to raise the temperature too. I don't know what that "bubble gum" serves for but that's not for raise the temperature.

That serves to low the temp or another thing that I don't know what is.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ydgmms on March 13, 2007, 07:58:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 01:59 AM)

After ~March 2006, MS started using thermal pads on the bottom RAM, to use the shielding as a heatsink for those. If your system is Pre-March 2006-ish, you might not have those things on your RAM, so you think they don't. But as opening my system today, I noticed this. Others have as well... Like the person that posted at the same time as me

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 03:02 AM)

Thats a heat conducting material. It thermally attachs those RAM chips to the sheilding to use it as a giant heat sink. As I said before systems before ~March 06 don't have it. Systems after March 06, should have it.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: LOKi1 on March 13, 2007, 08:42:00 PM

Its True!

Brazil Rulez

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 13, 2007, 08:44:00 PM

As a total guess I'd say this isn't a RAM issue but rather it flexes the motherboard upwards and so solves the problem of the board warping. The board can't warp back because the rubber stops in moving downwards and supports the board. If you let your machine heat up first so that the solder reflows then perhaps this might work just as well as various clamping methods. I imagine it would make the RAM get a lot hotter though.

I know the CPU/GPU is the issue on the ones I have fixed as you can actually see the broken connections. That isn't to say that all 360s fail because of that, but that perhaps this method fixes the same problem (by flexing the board back) while just appearing to be related to the RAM.

At the very least, I'd use thermal pads instead of rubber.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 08:09:00 PM

QUOTE(william di mase @ Mar 13 2007, 10:31 PM)

William, please, don't talk this way because you can initiate a flame war and this is not the purpouse of this thread.
He have the right to doubt. Everybody have.

I just have to say just what luiscra said. For bricked 360 with NO WARRANTY what bad coul happen? NOTHING. The 360 is already bricked.
It costs nothing to do, no need to be an astronout to be able to do that. And if that works? Come back here, be polite and post the results. Simple as that.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: speedygonzolas3 on March 13, 2007, 08:13:00 PM

QUOTE(ydgmms @ Mar 14 2007, 04:05 AM)

.
Thats a heat conducting material. It thermally attachs those RAM chips to the sheilding to use it as a giant heat sink. As I said before systems before ~March 06 don't have it. Systems after March 06, should have it.

my 360 is past that date, so from what im reading i do have the thermal pads, but are they like paste?? so if i wer 2 take my mobo out of my metal shielding would it break some sort of a seal and make it not conduct heat as well???

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 13, 2007, 08:58:00 PM

QUOTE(ydgmms @ Mar 14 2007, 03:05 AM)

Thermal pads are COMPLETELY different than a slab of rubber. I do not have the pads, although they would ABSOLUTELY help. My only concern is that it looks like the memory will lay right across this little dip in the backplate. How do the pads help unless you put an assload to cover the gap?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 08:31:00 PM

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 13 2007, 11:15 PM)

Good post man! I agree with you in some parts and in others I have to disagree.
You did in the right way, being polite. Say someone is retarded like someone did is not the right way.

Everybody here is just guessing! What is real is that here in Brazil a lot of bricked 360 were fixed with a simple rubber.

You know that the GPU/CPU on the ones you have fixed had broken connections and this rubber could flex the board in the same way that here we have a lot of people saying that his bricked 360 works if a pressure is put over the memories. Ok, the pressure over the memories could flex the board and/or make the bad solder joint gain god connection.

Now it's too soon for anybody to make conclusions. There are a lot of bad connections on CPU, GPU and RAM, everybody already said something related.

What is impressive is that this simple rubber is fixing (I don't know for how long time) a lot of bricked 360. I don't know if it fix flexing the board or make good connections on RAM. I sincerily don't know but we came here just to say that is working better and with more succes than using hot gun, using a towel or another crazy stuff that people are doing when are desesperate. How about losing 700 bucks??

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 13, 2007, 08:35:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 03:38 AM)

Say someone is retarded like someone did is not the right way.

I never said that the person doing it is retarded. I said putting rubber on things that get over 150F is retarded.

Translation issue.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 08:57:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 13 2007, 11:29 PM)

"How do the pads help unless you put an assload to cover the gap?"
I think that just Microsoft engineers can answer this, hehe.

For those that think that the pad is clued and for those that never saw one.
IPB Image

ps: I hate the guy that made this photo, hehe

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: belke on March 13, 2007, 09:35:00 PM

couldnt you find something better than an eraser? like a mini heatsink or something to transfer the heat?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 13, 2007, 09:50:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 04:04 AM)

ps: I hate the guy that made this photo, hehe

OH. MY. GOD. What a bunch of hacks. I guess that piece of rubber doesn't look so bad now.

I think a nice custom slab of copper would be sweet. Put some AS5 on each side. Done.

Serioulsy, though. I think that if you fill the gap seperately and then put thermal pads on them it won't be so bad.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 13, 2007, 10:01:00 PM

This is an extremely interesting and intriguing topic.

To my Brazilian friends, please don't be offended by members who are skeptical regarding this method. It wasn't a Brazil-USA sort of skepticism, but instead was merely that only a few people (yourselves) have stated that it works, and no one has really shown enough evidence that this is a permanent fix.

We also didn't think that you said this was THE end-all for the 3RL. This may just be a longer fix than the towel/heat gun tricks are (from what I read the towel idea is quite an inane thing to do).

What I am concerned about is the long-term effects of this. We need to get someone in here that really truly knows his components, and could possibly give us some insight into what this might do. I'm worried that this may burn up the memory chips altogether, something that might be almost unfixable!

Please give us updates on how these fixes are going. Let us know how long someone's bricked 360 has kept running since you've performed the eraser trick. Are there any new errors? Any little quirks/weird habits the 360 has since attained?

This is key to getting this solution out. Just like with scientific findings, you have to put it out there and let others test it for themselves and come to the same conclusions you did before you can crown yourself victorious. I'm interested to see what types of results this brings - it seems to be a good fix thus far!

Edit: Afterthought - what about drilling holes in the rubber or whatever other object you use to prop up the memory chips - or just using a pad half the size of those erasers above so the entire chip isn't covered. Are there workarounds to this heat issue?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 13, 2007, 10:09:00 PM

How much space do you have between the memory and the RF shield? How about if you don't screw it back down to the X clamps?

I found some 6mm copper ramsinks that may do the trick. Might have to trim a mm off them, but I think it would be a better solution thermally while acheving the same thing (pressing the chips down).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 13, 2007, 09:40:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 13 2007, 10:40 PM)

Interesting. How would one go about attaching these ramsinks. I think someone said using glue poses a problem with the heat issue again.

The reason why I'm so inquisitive about this (as is everyone else) is that I have a 360 that is being kept alive by the heat gun trick. It's only been done once or twice, but I know that eventually it will give out again. I want to make sure that the next time it gives out, I'll do the heat gun trick for the very last time, and then I want to really make sure the ram chips are being pushed up to help keep those solder joints in place without any board flex.

All of your help is greatly appreciated, thanks for all the research and documentation!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ydgmms on March 13, 2007, 09:44:00 PM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 14 2007, 04:47 AM)

there is thermal adhesive. its glue that conducts heat. i

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 09:47:00 PM

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 14 2007, 12:06 AM)

couldnt you find something better than an eraser? like a mini heatsink or something to transfer the heat?

I think a heatsink would do better if properly fixed and with the exact height. Maybe a better thermal pad and harder, not that soft thing that Microsoft used.

I think that rubber is not the better material because the 360 will overheat and could brick again and maybe definitly.

I think that a heatsink properly made that can put some force over the memories could do a better job but not an excessive one. Just enough to make some bad solder joints became good.

It was just a try in a bricked xbox that did not need to be replaced because made a bricked xbox to work for 4 months till now.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: belke on March 13, 2007, 09:58:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 13 2007, 10:40 PM)

i think it says 4mm maybe u could shave them down and do a test fit.

also I think Brazilians probably have the best fixes for 360's. Since it's so hot and humid all year round the motherboards are prone to warp a lot faster than people else ware. So maybe we should start believing them since they have a lot more to lose than we do.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 10:36:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 12:40 AM)

Now I agree with you. I read the original thread and thei said that the height of the rubber must be between 3 and 4mm. But a rubber is resilient, heatsinks of cooper ar not. I think that you will need to measure carefully the height and use a height a bit bigger than the space, just enough to give a slight pressure. The thermal glue would do the rest.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 13, 2007, 10:59:00 PM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 14 2007, 12:32 AM)

This is an extremely interesting and intriguing topic.

Indeed, it's extremely intriguing because in our forum, www.portalxbox.com.br and http://forum.jogos.u...ewforum.php?f=5 , after the initial post, A LOT of bricked 360, that was abandonned in a drawer, sudenly start to function again. I laught in the beggining, thinking myself: "What in the hell they think they are doing? UFO's and Santa Claus, I believe on you" hahhaha.

QUOTE

To my Brazilian friends, please don't be offended by members who are skeptical regarding this method. It wasn't a Brazil-USA sort of skepticism, but instead was merely that only a few people (yourselves) have stated that it works, and no one has really shown enough evidence that this is a permanent fix.

Ok, no heart feelings. Nobody offended, just sorry us for our bad english. I was skeptical, VERY skeptical. There is evidence that this thing was able to fix a lot of bricked xbox 360, but for how long time? Is it a permanent fix? I don't think so, I'm still skeptical about being a permanent fix but not skeptical about the efficiency of this.

QUOTE

We also didn't think that you said this was THE end-all for the 3RL. This may just be a longer fix than the towel/heat gun tricks are (from what I read the towel idea is quite an inane thing to do).

Uhm, you guys? Nope. Just one guy said that this is THE END for all the 3RL. He is wrong. He did not have the permission of the guy that did this mod for the first time. Because of a bad english and a good cause, this post was blocke once thinking that was spam and now in this post was misunderstood.
The guy that posted here had a very good intention but did shit, hehee. Some think that it's just a joke and some don't believe it's possible.

"Chiaoscuro" tha was the "inventor" of rubber fixing bricked 360. He is fluent in english and have english as a foreign language. He will post here but HE was supposed to be posting here in the first place.

QUOTE

What I am concerned about is the long-term effects of this. We need to get someone in here that really truly knows his components, and could possibly give us some insight into what this might do. I'm worried that this may burn up the memory chips altogether, something that might be almost unfixable!

I think in the same way. But here Microsoft do nothing for us. We supported Microsoft but we have to fix ourselves.

QUOTE

Please give us updates on how these fixes are going. Let us know how long someone's bricked 360 has kept running since you've performed the eraser trick. Are there any new errors? Any little quirks/weird habits the 360 has since attained?

2 xbox are working for 4 months untill now. Both had 3RL code 0102. A lot are working for hours and some form days and weeks. I counted 15 xbox fixed with rubber.
Two xbox had 2RL (overheat) in the begining, made a thickier rubber and now are working flawlessly.
No 360 stopped working untill now.
Nothing weird happening until now. Turn on perfectly, work flawlessly in every game, no errors until now.
What the fuck? Too good to be true. Mine is bricked and saturday i will try to fix with rubber. If works I'll try to replace with coper and AS thermal glue.

QUOTE

This is key to getting this solution out. Just like with scientific findings, you have to put it out there and let others test it for themselves and come to the same conclusions you did before you can crown yourself victorious. I'm interested to see what types of results this brings - it seems to be a good fix thus far!

I support you. I'm no more skeptical but I want scientif findings. I need scientific findings. I don't want to believe that Microsoft used lower frequency memory that now is overclocked and after bricked I have to use a rubber to fix that. Now I think that we are in the right way. People are replying, asking, making theories and now will try that for themselves. Will post the results, findings, critics, etc...
Nobody crowned himself victorious and if did, what a stupid. "Chiaroscuro" that was the "inventor" of this mod was very cautelous and wanted a lot of tries and findings before posting here. But someone made in his name. tsc tsc..

QUOTE

Edit: Afterthought - what about drilling holes in the rubber or whatever other object you use to prop up the memory chips - or just using a pad half the size of those erasers above so the entire chip isn't covered. Are there workarounds to this heat issue?

Well thinked. I'm thinking in a ring in a rectangular shape. It's openned in the center. Maybe something in a form of "U". The flat part of the U under the memory, glued with thermal compound and the rest of the U being as foot over the RF shield. It can be made of aluminun that is cheap and easy to find. I don't know it was clear. Maybe a picture tomorrow.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: william di mase on March 13, 2007, 11:23:00 PM

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 14 2007, 01:05 AM)

Sorry by another post. Well, the guy who discovery this method live in Curitiba, south of Brazil. Its a cold place. Here, in São Paulo, the clima is varied, but, without humidity in bigger part of the year...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Biablo on March 14, 2007, 12:16:00 AM

Hi

I got the 3 red lights 3 weeks ago, i sent it to an electronic company i know. they X-RAY all the BGA chips and they did not see any bad soldering in them, any suggestens that can help me?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gnutzmann on March 14, 2007, 04:19:00 AM

for that they had closed my topic… I played my deceased 360 for 3 hours yesterday… I believe the technique and mine he functioned. if they do not believe. they are with the 360 broken.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RafaelGali on March 14, 2007, 05:51:00 AM

I buy xbox 360 with 3rl...

Thanks Chiaroscuro, our Brazilian Macgyver.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: william di mase on March 14, 2007, 06:29:00 AM

They are each time more people making mod here and having resulted. Paraphrasing Visa, and Arc Delta, from Uol Jogos , fix a shit of a milionaire project with a litle eraser does not have price

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 06:30:00 AM

Hello All!

I am Chiaroscuro on the brazilian boards (and MrChiaroscuro in XboxLive) and the original poster of this mod.

Sorry that the previous explanations were only in Portuguese and the tutorial is not in English yet. I was planning to post here a proper translation, but was quite busy in the last days. I should have foresee that when I posted it at www.portalxbox.com people would started spreeding the news fast. Some forums members there got excited with the solution and start to post it here and all aroung.

I will try to provide a proper translation today.

But some quick remarks:
- Yes, it works. It sounds silly but it is effective. More than 15 Xbox 360 have been reported as fixed, and 4 by myself. I do not clain that it is the solution for all Xbox 360 0102 errors, but it looks like that a vast range of problems can be fixed by this easy solution.
- The main idea is to introduce a small (enphasys on small) pressure over the memory chips that are mounted in the inferior side of the motherboard, to keep them as much tight with the motherboard as possible, preventing some contact errors. Do not bend your motherboard.
- Rubber (cutted from normal plastic eraser) was choosed because it is a cheap non-thermal conductive material and easy to mold. You can use any material which can be mold and cut, as long as it does not deform over time with temperature and applies a soft pressure over the chips.
- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell. It is very strange to me that some people are reporting that normally their 360 memories are hot. Anyway you can cut a small hole in the pad (I think it will still work) with you are worried with temperature. However do not make the pads smaller than the memories. In fact they should be a little bigger, 0.1 cm bigger to each side. The reason for that is that the pressure should be applied mostly in the edges of the memories, otherwise it will not work. A smaller or displaced pad will not work.
- And if your 360 have 3RLs and is out of the guarantee, what do you have to loose? This method is cheap, easy to do, and does not modify permanently your console, you can undo that anytime. Many people are having success with the method it is worth a try.
- My 360 is running for more than 4 months with this mod. I opened several times (last time this weekend) to be sure that nothing was wrong with the pads, specially becuase they are made of rubber. Everything was fine, nothing to be worried about.

Full translation coming shortly. I will try to answer as many questions as possible. This information can be fully spreed, as long as it gives credit to me.

Sorry for any speeling errors. English is not my native language and I am in a hurry now.

Chears,
MrChiaroscuro

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 14, 2007, 06:28:00 AM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 03:38 AM)

I'm all for people trying it, but I would recommend somebody use a thermal probe and get at least a rough measure of the heat of those chips under normal loads. If they run cold then the rubber blocks probably won't harm anything. If they run hot then you will shorten the life of the chips significantly.

If it is true that the memory chips are also suffering from bad connections, I highly doubt gravity is to blame. The force is *far* too weak, there just isn't enough mass in the chips. The flexing of the board could cause the memory chip connections to fail just as the CPU/GPU connections fail.

The most likely scenario is the crappy X clamps and board and excessive heat in the 360 cause different connections to fail in different 360s depending on the particular way your particular board flexes.

I don't know if I would want a hard heatsink on these pressing hard against the case, perhaps just a very thick shim topped with a thermal pad for the last mm or so.
Ideally something like this for a long term fix if the rubber blocks make your 360 work, so at least you get some heat transfer.
http://www.acp.com/s...rubber_670.html
http://www.stockwell...als_thermal.php

But anyway, it is another thing to try that costs effectively nothing and is unlikely to cause any further damage in the short term.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 14, 2007, 07:08:00 AM

First off, let me say thank you for your time and effort. We would be SOL if it weren't for people like you fixing Microsoft's mistakes.

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 01:01 PM)

- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell. It is very strange to me that some people are reporting that normally their 360 memories are hot. Anyway you can cut a small hole in the pad (I think it will still work) with you are worried with temperature. However do not make the pads smaller than the memories. In fact they should be a little bigger, 0.1 cm bigger to each side. The reason for that is that the pressure should be applied mostly in the edges of the memories, otherwise it will not work. A smaller or displaced pad will not work.

This is the only thing I take issue with. This directly conflicts with the info that RBJTech posted in his temperature mesurements.

Lower Case (Directly under RAM 1 & 2) 48C 118.4F
Lower Case (Directly under RAM 3 & 4) 51C 123.8F

Now this is the case, not on the RAM itself. It is safe to say that the RAM will run warmer than that. In fact, if you measure the top ones directly:

RAM 1 (Front left) 68C 154.4F
RAM 2 (Front right) 68C 154.4F

I am not saying that this fix has helped. However I would be concerned about the long term effects. I think a block of 4mm copper would work far better than the eraser. And be a bit safer.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 14, 2007, 06:32:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 12:01 PM)

- The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot.

- Er not according to my heat temperature gun they're not - they are the HOTTEST chip on the board by far because the do not have any heatsink attached to them. You can bring the temperature down rapidly with a little passive heatsink / THERMAL pads on the rear and under the GPU, but IMO putting a thermal INSULATOR on top of them is asking for trouble.

It may well solve the 3ROL - via pressing the memory chips or motherboard - but I would use two sets of thermal conductive pads (on top of one another=6mm) to achieve the same result - then you get the pressure AND a heatsink all in one ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 14, 2007, 07:12:00 AM

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 14 2007, 01:39 PM)

but I would use two sets of thermal conductive pads (on top of one another=6mm) to achieve the same result

So we are looking at a 6mm gap? If I could obtain a 3mm block of copper and then add a 3mm thermal pad this would be fantastic. That way we are actually drawing the heat away with the copper and then using the thermal pad as a gap filler.

I have no way of measuring here. Is that gap accurate?

Funny how you, me and dokworm posted nearly identical info at the same time.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 07:27:00 AM

The gap between the motherboard and the inner case is about 0.4-0.5 cm.

Regarding the temperature of the memories: I cannot precise measure its temperature here, since I do not have a probe in hand. I glad appreciate that someone run some tests. My impression from the memories in the up side of the motherboard, with the 360 running on open was that they are much cooler than anything on the board. The highest temperatures came from CPU and specially GPU, not the memories.

Anyway, a thermal conductive material that can be cut/mold like rubber, and keeo its size firmly over heaten, and capable to apply a soft pressure over the chips will also work. The thermal pads MS is using in the recent 360 models are not effective working because they are too soft.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 14, 2007, 07:19:00 AM

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 14 2007, 09:35 AM)

I agree. We have to test the temperatures with and without the rubber. My 360 is bricked and I will try this thing today. I'll post results here. I can't measure the temperature because I think the temperatures with 3RL is not the same in full load.
I think that the best way to probe is with a laser but I don't have one.
I think that if the problem is the memories, we need to put a heatsink on the bottom and another in the top of the four memories. But how we can do this with the memories that are under de GPU heatsink?

QUOTE

If it is true that the memory chips are also suffering from bad connections, I highly doubt gravity is to blame. The force is *far* too weak, there just isn't enough mass in the chips. The flexing of the board could cause the memory chip connections to fail just as the CPU/GPU connections fail.

A dumbass said that the gravity is the problem, hehe. Off course NOT. Maybe overclocked memory, flex of the board, transfer of the heat of the GPU to the memories, etc...
Gravity? lol.

QUOTE

I don't know if I would want a hard heatsink on these pressing hard against the case, perhaps just a very thick shim topped with a thermal pad for the last mm or so.
Ideally something like this for a long term fix if the rubber blocks make your 360 work, so at least you get some heat transfer.
But anyway, it is another thing to try that costs effectively nothing and is unlikely to cause any further damage in the short term.

That's what I thinked. I will try to fix my bricked xbox 360 today and I this will work I don't know. But if works, I'll made something better for a long term. Probably aluminun blocks glued with Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive. But in the last mm I'll use the pink think that microsoft used, just to put some pressure over the memories.
For that bricked ones, why not try? It's costless, easy to do, reversible and problably will not damage anything in the short term if you don't flex a lot the board.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 08:32:00 AM

Just a warning: I would not use copper sinks or similars in substitute of the rubber, becuase they not only temperature conductive, but also electrical conductive. Since the space between the motherboard and the inner metalic shell is very thin (0.4 cm) and the inner shell itself is not plain, the pads can be eventually fell out of place, and in such case a lot more damage from electrical contact will be done than using rubber.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 14, 2007, 08:34:00 AM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 12:43 PM)

No I wasn't suggesting it's 6mm. The gap filler pads on the new 360 are ~3mm, as the OP indicated these are a hardish gel type substance which compresses fairly easily - it has to, because it forms itself around the contours of the case shell. So all we know really is the gap must be LESS than 3mm, or the pads would have no effect - significantly less then this and the pads are already pressing hard on the chips - so I would say the gap is 2mm.

If we use two pads - then the pressure will increase as you now have 6mm to crush into 2mm rather than 3mm

The other thing to try of course is to just use the rubber pressing against a plain bit of PCB next to the RAM chips - if it has the same effect, then it's the mobo board flexing that's solving the issue - and has nothing to do with the RAM ...

With regards to the temp of the chips - have a look here

Cooling ..

I did a big post including RAM cooling - believe me - they get hot ! (why do you think MS have now included thermal pads on the underboard RAM ?)

PS - Got a 3ROL from ebay through the post this morning - poor thing, it's going to be my project for the next couple of weeks .. I'll be sure to try this though ..

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 10:20:00 AM

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 14 2007, 11:41 AM)

With regards to the temp of the chips - have a look here

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=580504

I did a big post including RAM cooling - believe me - they get hot ! (why do you think MS have now included thermal pads on the underboard RAM ?)

PS - Got a 3ROL from ebay through the post this morning - poor thing, it's going to be my project for the next couple of weeks .. I'll be sure to try this though ..

The gap varies because of the X in the botton of the case. 0.4 cm is bigger than the gap, but it is necessary to mold the material this size otherwise it will not provide the necessary pressure.

Regarding applying the pressure directly over the motherboard, I do not think it will work. The problem is related to the memories (my be because of the motherboarding flexing when it get hot, but it is located in the memories). If you try to use pads smaller than the memory size it would work as well, the pressure must be on the edges of the memory, I have tried those different configurations.

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 14 2007, 11:41 AM)

I did a big post including RAM cooling - believe me - they get hot ! (why do you think MS have now included thermal pads on the underboard RAM ?)

I am not sure but my guess MS include the thermal pads more to keep the memories in their places than to try to cool them down. If they want to memories to stay cooler they would not include memories bellow the same sinker that dissipates the heat from the GPU.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 14, 2007, 10:53:00 AM

Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but perhaps we use a half-and-half solution to this fixture - half (2cm) of rubber, and then half (2cm) of copper. Maybe this is trivial, but I figured it'd be worth a shot.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 10:32:00 AM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 14 2007, 01:24 PM)

I believe you mean 0.2 cm each. I still think the best would be to make a 0.4 cm pad with a thermal material that can be mold as a squared pad.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 14, 2007, 10:48:00 AM

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 14 2007, 11:41 AM)

RBJTech, I looked very rapidly your post and that's the right way to do. What I suspected, that the memoris were the hottest parts in the console. 68ºC, wow!

I have a question about this photo:
IPB Image

You installed the elastomers of the back of the motherboar, over the memories, between the memories and the GPU heatsink. How much that lower the temperature over these memories?
That's what I always wanted to do, transfer the the temperature from the memories to the GPU heatsink. Was that sucessfull to cool the memories?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 11:15:00 AM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 01:55 PM)

Quick question: this way it is not possible to also transfer GPU heat to the memories? I always tought it was not a good idea to share a sink, but in the 360 the bigger GPU sink is just to incrise the dissipation area for the GPU nothing to do with the memories (otherwise the 2 lower memories should have been covered too). The sink does not touch the memories.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Chancer on March 14, 2007, 12:06:00 PM

My comment.
You stated you were not trying to spam the other forum here then the url is mentioned every other post you make in this thread. If you feel the need to mention the url of the forum/site again I may feel the need to shut this thread. Please do not jeopardise the discussion over it.
The title is misleading slightly as it implies this is a cure for 3 red lights. Long term I don't think it will be.. but time will tell.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 14, 2007, 12:07:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 06:22 PM)

No the thermal transfer won't work that way. The sink will never be hotter than the memory. Therefore the heat will transfer from the memory to the aluminum which is constantly dissipating the heat. The sink will be hotter, the exhaust will be hotter, but the die and memory will run cooler.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 11:45:00 AM

QUOTE(Chancer @ Mar 14 2007, 02:37 PM)

Chancer they are not trying to make spam, they are trying to give credit to the OP of the mod, myself, who posted in that forums. I was going to proper post the idea here, translated to English, but some of the friends over that board got excited and post before me. I stated in my original post that is it a possible solution for the 3RLs (not the second coming) and I would like to share it with the members, determine how often it works and them share it to everyone who may have interested on it.

Of course to post a link to a foreign country forum that requires registration (in a different language) looks like a spam. For that I must apologize in behalf of that posters (and I never understand why that forum requires registration to see the posts anyway).

Keep in mind that any mention to the original poster (me, aka Chiaroscuro on Brazilian boards, MrChiaroscuro in Live and Mr.Chiaroscuro here) or the original forums where this solution was described (portalxbox and UOL, two big sites in Brazil) SHOULD NOT TO BE TAKEN AS SPAM. If you do not want to go there (and why you should? It is on Portuguese) you can ask me any question here, since I activated this account. Please do not ban or close this thread because of this, they are just trying to assure the credit is given to the right person.

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 02:38 PM)

That makes sense, however you are assuming that the GPU and memories are running in similar temperatures.

Of course GPU T > Sink T, transfer Ok.

if GPU T >>> memories T, the Sink may get hotter than the memory itselves, but always Sink T < GPU T.

To be sure we have to measure exactly the running temperature of the GPU and memories without any mod.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 14, 2007, 11:50:00 AM

QUOTE(Chancer @ Mar 14 2007, 02:37 PM)

Mr. Moderator, it was not our intention to spam other forum here. We wanted just to post who made this mod in the first place, just it!
I don't know all the rules to post here and I don't know how to give the credits for who did the job in the first place. I just wanna give the credits.
I don't think that there is need to shut this thread just know that everybody is posting comments.

I don't have access to edit my posts, you do. Can we just edit the replies and erase the link for the other forum?

Can you edit the title and put "Another cheap way to fix 3RL"? and remove the links to the other forum.

Why will we spam other forum here if our forum is all in brazilian portuguese that is not yours native language?

Let's try another way to fix the misunderstandings.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 14, 2007, 12:03:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 02:52 PM)

That makes sense, however you are assuming that the GPU and memories are running in similar temperatures.
Of course GPU T > Sink T, transfer Ok.
if GPU T >>> memories T, the Sink may get hotter than the memory itselves, but always Sink T < GPU T.
To be sure we have to measure exactly the running temperature of the GPU and memories without any mod.

Chiaoscuro, it's hard to believe but the memories are the hottest component of 360.
If you look a link that posted here, there will be a temperature mod with a lot of measures and the memories are the hottest.

Thinking that, I don't know why the GPU heatsink don't touch the memories to cool them.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 14, 2007, 12:16:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 11:39 AM)

I believe you mean 0.2 cm each. I still think the best would be to make a 0.4 cm pad with a thermal material that can be mold as a squared pad.

Ah, correct. Brainfart on my part. I knew it was millimeters but somehow typed centimeters. Perhaps it was wishful thinking since centimeters would definitely be easier to work with.

QUOTE(Chancer @ Mar 14 2007)

The title is misleading slightly as it implies this is a cure for 3 red lights. Long term I don't think it will be.. but time will tell.

What evidence do you have that this isn't a long-term fix? I'm not badgering you, I'm simply thinking that you most likely have in mind something that I don't. I too fear that this isn't the long-term solution, but as of right now I see nothing that can really lead me to believe this. This doesn't mean, however, that I can't be shown something in the future which does persuade me one way or the other.

Just trying to really sort through this myself and find a workable fix. I really have no input to this process, other than the questions I'm asking of all of you that have the answers.

Edit: Also, where would one find these "thermal pads" or "thermal material" that you're talking about? Is it a readily available thing that I can get at a RadioShack, for example? Or is it specially made for computer manufacturers? Can anyone give me an example of a type of thermal material that would be suitable to replace the rubber in this method?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 14, 2007, 12:20:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 06:52 PM)

I agree with your thinking, however what happens is that the heat that is being pulled off the heatsink is always moving. Even if the sink got hotter than the memory, the "convection" would keep it being pulled to the sink as opposed to the memory.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: spinr34 on March 14, 2007, 03:09:00 PM

i must say, interesting idea. anyone have a picture of the "pads" that MS put on the newer 360's? i almost want to open my new one to check but don't want to void another warranty.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 14, 2007, 03:21:00 PM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 14 2007, 06:27 PM)

Simply put - the GPU h/s temperature directly above the GPU die is listed in my graph - it's way below the memory temperature (with no heatsink), therefore it cannot 'heat up' the memory because the memory is already hotter than the heatsink ..

The memory is also attached to the far side of the GPU heatsink - ie the coolest bit by far. Therefore I am confident that adding minimal heat to the GPU h/s from the memory has zero negative consequences.

Cheers,

Richard.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Chancer on March 14, 2007, 03:25:00 PM

QUOTE

I don't have access to edit my posts, you do. Can we just edit the replies and erase the link for the other forum?

It is not necessary to edit out the links as they stand, nor do I have any problem with giving credit to the people involved. It was just the url kept being stated for the sake of it. Any how as it has stopped all is well.

QUOTE

What evidence do you have that this isn't a long-term fix?

None. How could anyone? it has not been tested long term. having studied everything so far, it seems to me the effect this fix is having is more to do with the fact that the board is put under pressure. Over time with thermal expansion and contraction the effectiveness will be lessened.
heat gun is not a long term fix either, neither is jamming toothpicks in or wrapping sensitive electronic equipment in Towels (All these things have been labelled a fix). Short term improvement may be seen but the symptoms re-occur. I still think re-balling and reworking the BGA components is the way forward...but who has the money for the equipment needed?
At the end of it all none of this should be required on an expensive console at less than 18 months old.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 05:10:00 PM

I decided to try this and will post the results soon. I used rubber cement since i felt that would be the best that way i can remove it easy if it doesnt work. Rubber Cement should almost be completly dry.I cut the eraser peices .4cm each roughly..to the best of my ablity. One peice came out kinda short but it should still work imo.

Pic of my mobo before trying this
IPB Image

Me applying rubber cement
IPB Image

Finished product just drying
IPB Image

See the one that was cut a little to short.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 05:31:00 PM

Hello again, all!

I just ran some basic tests regarding the temperature of the internal components. Keep in mind that is very subjective, since I do not have a thermal probe or any way to effective measure the temperature.

I run half an hour with Gear of War (very GPU demanding) with the console open but with the MoBo in the inner shell. After this period of time I decided to check the sinks. They are very hot, I can not even touch the GPU sink. The memories on the upper side of the motherboard, outside of the sink, were warm. Quite warm, but not hot, I can touch them easily. And after a second on two the memories were simple cold again, they cool down very fast. The GPU sink however, was still very hot and I can still not touch it. I know that this test is as imprecise as it can be, I need to get a proble asap, but this seems to confirm to me that the hottest components are the GPU and the CPU. The memories can get warm, but not really hot, and cool down quick. I was unable to check the memories in the back of the MoBo, but my guess is that they run in a similar temperature.

Back the pads: I am pretty sure that thermal materials would be better for the mod, but the rubber for the sake of testing is fine. I do not believe it will warm that much the memories even after a long period of time (mine is 4 months running that way).

To the ones trying the method: make sure the pads are a little bigger than the memories. The pressure has to be applied at the edge of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 05:48:00 PM

Video sais it all. CRAP quality but i didnt want to wait forever to upload so its still proof.
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01228.flv

At first it didnt work but my camera ran out of batery and i let that get a quick charge and i decided to let it heat up for 10 mins like i read and when the battery had eneough juice to shoot that little clip my 360 worked worked! I kinda cussed a littl ebit in amusement.... sorry for that.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 14, 2007, 06:13:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 14 2007, 11:02 PM)

Get yourself an infra-red probe - that's the only way you are doing to properly read the temps from the RAM. By putting your finger (or a metal probe for that matter) on the RAM, you are effectively becoming a heatsink and removing the heat into your finger. The CPU/GPU 'feel' the hottest because they contain massive reserves of heat - so you touch them, your finger absorbs the first heat, but there is still plenty more so it keeps absorbing it then 'ouch'... With the RAM, there is not enough mass on the chip to sustain the heat - so it drops quickly. This is the reason a small passive heatsink is ample to keep them cool but they DO get very hot without it. (why do you think all high speed PC RAM has sinks on the DIMM ?)

I'll test them again tomorrow for you (I now have an unmodded console to play with..) but I'm pretty certain the temps are accurate.

PS - Have a look at the PS3 RAM Layout - they are attached to the core heatpipe unit ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 06:27:00 PM

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01230.flv

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 14, 2007, 07:19:00 PM

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 08:58 PM)

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/bigg92/?action=view&current=MOV01230.flv

Come on Bigg92, did you cutted the eraser using your foot? That was horrible.
Man, make a risk with a pen in the eraser where you have to cut. Put the knife all the way out and cut on a single move. It will be perfect sized.
And no need for the cement, the glue is used just to put the eraser in place at the time you reassemble. You don't have to fix firmly and permanent.

I disassembled mine, fixed the eraser but now I will have some beers.
Then, latter, I will reassemble. If that shit works (360) I think I'll scream WHAT IN THE HELL until tomorrow.
Guys, pray for me, hehehe.
Tomorow you will read the next chapter of this history.
Man, I really don't believe it's working for a lot of people. It will have to fix mine.

Bigg92, cut another eraser, with care this time and do all over again. Your 360 turned on once. Let's make it turn on again.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 14, 2007, 07:47:00 PM

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 07:19 PM)

Haha, I couldn't help but laugh at your cussing. "Holy shit, it works. If this shit works, that shits crazy." Hahaha.

Seriously though, I think right now the best way to go is to figure out how to remove the X clips altogether, and fasten the cpu/gpu down on the middle of the board similar to a PC motherboard... Before you even do this, though, you reflow the chips' solder (aka the "Heat Gun Trick") to get the solders right once and for all (or so we hope), and then correctly fastening the motherboard should prevent flexing, which thus leads to broken solders and three red lights.

Go read the other thread, "3RL is A Design Flaw", excellently written and a lot of great pointers/advice over there for how to do it yourself. If you've ever installed a PC motherboard, and since you've already cracked your 360 open to mess with it I'm assuming you have, it doesn't seem all that difficult to Magiver this solution into real life.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 08:23:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 14 2007, 07:50 PM)

Yes i did cut it with my fucking foot , i dont have arms.... lol just messin around. I only had a small blade at the time,really small and did the best with what i could. The rubber cement is preatty much like glue. now i, using perfect peices lol

lol yeah i waas happy.
but i just tried it again and its giving me the red lights. Well this happened the first time too and i let it heat up so lets see what happens.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 08:34:00 PM

Nope its not working again. I just need a new mobo i think.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 14, 2007, 08:44:00 PM

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 14 2007, 11:05 PM)

Nope its not working again. I just need a new mobo i think.

bigg, cut the rubber in perfect retangules 0.3 to 0.4 cm high. They should cover all the memory (a little bit more of size of the memory) because the pressure should be applied mainly at the edges of the memories, a smaller pad would not be enough.

At the first time you try the method, it is perfectly normal that it still gaves the 3RLs. Wait for a few minutes (5 min) with the 360 turned on (even with errors). Turn it off and on again. Now the 3RLs should be gone. In most of the times it is necessary this waiting on the 3RLs because the memories are not in the correct place yer. The heat generated when you keep the 360 on will put the memories in the right place. From then you do not need to do that anymore, just in the first try after the mod.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 14, 2007, 08:53:00 PM

I did leave it on for a while. Im still doing it but no luck yet.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 15, 2007, 02:52:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 02:15 AM)

WHAT !

- are you suggesting the heat from the 360 memory melts and reflows ...

(didn't you just say they don;t even get hot ... ?)

Sorry - this is 100% a 'bend the board' fix ... bigg92 - your cuts are just fine and if it's pushing the board up then it ain't gonna work regardless of how smooth your cuts are ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 15, 2007, 08:32:00 AM

AHAHAHAHAHA
UHUHUHUHUHUHU
WOW!!!!

I DON'T BELIVE, IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!
Ahahah, guys, I'm so happy!
It was very frustating in the beggining when I put the motherboard back on RF shield. Turned it on and BAMMM!!! 3RL! But I let my 360 turned on for 8 minutos after the 3RL, turned it off and then turned it on again.
And... whole shit!! It's working now, it's alive. 20 minutes playing Gears of War until now.
I made photos of the mod and videos too. Now I will go to gym but latter I will post hear my videos and photos.
What the fuck, my 360 was bricked for 2 months and now I'm playing again. I spent 30 minutes and US$0.25.
I really don't now why it's working, if it's because it bend/flex the motherboar or if it pressure bad solder joints of the memory. I don't know for how long it will work but nothing fixed my 360 until now.
We only have to discover WHY it's functioning again to made this last forever.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 15, 2007, 08:34:00 AM

QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 15 2007, 05:23 AM)

WHAT !

- are you suggesting the heat from the 360 memory melts and reflows ...

No, I am not impling that. What I am saying is that the problem is not exactly related to the board flexing, it is related to how the board expands while warming up/cooling down which affects the memories joints. I believe the joints becomes weaker or crack. We are not saying a big crack, but small displacements can cause the contact to loose.

In my experience it does not work if the pressure is not applied in the edge of the memories, so the pad must cover its boarders (may work with a hole in the middle of the pad as well). Cuts must be perfect because if you use one too "high" the others will loose contact between the memories and the shell. It does not work if you put pressure directly in the motherboard, it must be over the memories, so the problem is memory joint related.

I use to say that you should keep the console on for a few minutes after the mod, even if it display errors (just this first try) because I have seem cases (mostly of them) that it does not work immediatly. The warming up of the motherboard is important in this first step. It could be because it bends the motherboard to the right position and the pads them keep it in that position, but I believe it is because somehow it pushes the memories joints to the right position. It is not like melting the joint, but the heat provided by the motherboard together to the pressure applied to the weak joints somehow works. I repeat: the pressure must be exactly over the edges of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

I also not saying the this heat comes from the memories. I believe the most of the generated heat comes from the GPU. It may warm up the memories joints, which are bellow the memories, not above like the rubber pads. This heat is not enough to melt anything, but somehow affects the weakened joints (flexing the board during warming up/cooling down weaks the joints, after sometime the heat start to affect the joints and giving 3RLs, the pressure counterbalance any effect from the heat).

Keep in mind that English is not my native language and sometimes I may find difficult to express my ideas in the right english terms.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 15, 2007, 11:04:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 02:05 PM)

Keep in mind that English is not my native language and sometimes I may find difficult to express my ideas in the right english terms.

Your English is good - significantly better than my Brazilian ..

I think I'll leave it at that - if it works, great... Just something else to add to the 'try it - it might work pile' ..

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: kidman64 on March 15, 2007, 12:26:00 PM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 15 2007, 02:18 AM)

Go read the other thread, "3RL is A Design Flaw", excellently written and a lot of great pointers/advice over there for how to do it yourself.

I can't seem to find it, would you mind posting a link? Thanks in advance:)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gnutzmann on March 15, 2007, 02:02:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 15 2007, 11:03 AM)

AHAHAHAHAHA
UHUHUHUHUHUHU
WOW!!!!

put the video on the YOUTUBE....... everybody will see.... and believe... BRAZIL RULEZ!!!!!!!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 15, 2007, 02:48:00 PM

Not a SPAM, but in the original forum where this was posted, there is a survey running about how many units have been fixed using this method: right now there is 23 consoles fixed in the last 48 hours. It could be more, since not everyone is reporting, they are busy playing their back-from-the-dead Xbox 360.

I will try to post a video in youtube, but my photos says a lot already. A video will only show the 360 running again, but since the pads are bellow the motherboard they won't be seen anyway.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 15, 2007, 02:41:00 PM

QUOTE(kidman64 @ Mar 15 2007, 01:57 PM)

I can't seem to find it, would you mind posting a link? Thanks in advance:)

My apologies, here's the link to that topic:
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=588032

Now, I can't speak from experience, but I believe the GENERAL idea being espoused over there is to

First, do the heat gun reflow "fix" very carefully. Like Chancer said, heat guns aren't toys and they aren't professional tools to fix video game consoles, they're primarily made to strip paint. Be careful with them, and mind your xbox motherboard. A few too many seconds of a heat gun can permanently can your Xbox for good (so find a GOOD guide on how to PROPERLY perform the heat gun fix!)

Then, use the trick outlined in that thread above ("Red Lights = Design Flaw" by dokworm). Right now, the theory in my head is that the solders on the chips aren't being melted by the heat of the Xbox - I believe it was RBJTech provided some research that suggests that it never gets very hot (only 74 degrees celsius - way cooler than the temp needed to melt solder!), but rather, I believe the heat is high enough to allow the board to flex (or bow) one way or the other, thus putting stress on the solders of the chips, eventually breaking them. I'd imagine that even if its not hot enough to melt solder, getting it as warm as the internal temperature of the 360 would be enough to let it slowly break or lose a quality connection. (Hence maybe this is why it takes a lot of time for the problem to develop).

My friend's first 360 (the friend who gave me the bricked, yet manageable 360 I have now, that generous bugger) actually had problems that would fit with my theory above. At first, his video started going funky - we found out that it was the GREEN in his video display. When we took the GREEN plug out (component RED GREEN BLUE), the picture was fine as long as you didn't miss the green. For us, playing RS:Vegas, the funky green all over the screen being gone was better than crappy colors.

Then, after that occurred, his 360 stopped booting altogether. He never thought that he was lumped together with the 3RL group because he never got them - it just never got to the startup screen. However, after he did the heat gun trick out of desperation, it worked - for a few weeks.

Luckily to say now, my friend got a new core system and also slapped on an additional two-year warranty on top of MS's 1-year. He should be set from most grief now.

As I've said before, I really don't know if this is the case, and I'm not saying that it is. I do, however, feel that with the evidence provided to us thanks to modders like RBJTech and the rest, and the collective experience brought here to the boards, we're able to formulate some great theories as to why this is happening. My box itself has fallen victim to it, and the next time it bites the dust what I outlined to you above is what I will do (I'd say that's a decent determiner regarding how much a person truly believes what they say, wouldn't you?).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 15, 2007, 03:18:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 15 2007, 03:19 PM)

Were there any reports of this not working? i mean besides me.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 15, 2007, 04:24:00 PM

QUOTE(bigg92 @ Mar 15 2007, 06:25 PM)

Were there any reports of this not working? i mean besides me.

Well the survey results shows 4 not working against 25 working. But:
- The 4 negative results users did not post anything in the thread, so they could be fakes, since anyone who could not perform the method succesfully would have post to get more information or at least cry about it (but we can not be sure).
- Of course the same can be said about the positive results (we can not be sure) but very known users have been posting positive results, and usually they are very vocal about it. Another thing is that the survey can only register one vote per user, when many users have reported to successful fix more than one console (one from a relative or friend).

I suggest to you to try again, but to make better pads (look at the ones I have made in the photos). Maybe you will not be able to fix your console but there is a big chance that the pads are just the wrong size or in the wrong position over the memories.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: bigg92 on March 15, 2007, 04:52:00 PM

Those are still preatty good results. I really just need a new mobo.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DaniloMQ on March 15, 2007, 05:11:00 PM

PACOTE HERE

Just today i fixed 5 X360 with errors 0102 and 0020

BRAZIL RULZ!!!!!!!

Who wuold figure that only a simple method would fix it all

I got some pretty rough x360 today that had the GPU soldered many times and this trick solved all

If you are from Brazil and want to fix this contact me

For a fair price i do it for you + put your coolers to 12v

[]'s

Pacote

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: belke on March 15, 2007, 04:57:00 PM

QUOTE(DaniloMQ @ Mar 15 2007, 05:42 PM)

PACOTE HERE
Just today i fixed 5 X360 with errors 0102 and 0020

BRAZIL RULZ!!!!!!!
Who wuold figure that only a simple method would fix it all
I got some pretty rough x360 today that had the GPU soldered many times and this trick solved all

If you are from Brazil and want to fix this contact me

For a fair price i do it for you + put your coolers to 12v

[]'s

Pacote

I dont think anyone would pay someone to do a mod this easy

good to see its working though

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DaniloMQ on March 15, 2007, 06:09:00 PM

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 16 2007, 12:04 AM)

I dont think anyone would pay someone to do a mod this easy

good to see its working though

There are many people who dont have the tools to open it or just dont want to open it afraid to break something...

And i dont just do this mod , I modify the coolers to 12v , not everyone knows how to weld

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RafaelMonteiro on March 15, 2007, 07:07:00 PM

good works man!!

its works!!!!! oh my gooddd!!!!

thx!

Brazil rlz!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MiahX007 on March 15, 2007, 08:10:00 PM

I have a theory: What if heating the RAM chips by insulating them is what is causing the fix.

Sound insane?

My 360 has been heatgunned twice by me (an electronics tech). I did some other cooling mods as well, and thought I had it fixed, I let it run for 2 days straight (turned off at night) running COD3. I thought it was fixed for sure. But then the 3rlod returned the next time I tried it. WTF!

Today I tried booting it several times, receiving the 3rlod every time. I then wrapped the whole console in a towel and let the 3rl blink for several minutes (heat up). Then WITH IT STILL WRAPPED UP IN THE TOWEL I turned it off and back on again, it booted!

I took the towel off, it froze, could not get it to boot again. Tried with the towel on several more times, while hot it will boot. But it does freeze shortly afterwards due to overheating of the CPU/GPU I am sure.

So what if the eraser insulators are causing them to get hot and work for some reason?

I know I have tried damn near everything, and am running out of ideas.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 15, 2007, 08:56:00 PM

QUOTE(MiahX007 @ Mar 15 2007, 09:41 PM)

Possibly, but it seems that because the RAM is the hottest component in the 360, a lot of people are putting heatsinks on them. You would think that doing the reverse would also produce a reverse effect in bricked Xboxes. Or, perhaps its this:

Because you never had the proper heat transfer mechanism installed on the RAM, they overheated enough to possibly make a loose solder. By insulating it, you're simply putting an "auto-reflow" in. For those Xboxes that aren't bricked, putting heatsinks on them stops the problem from ever occuring.

Forgive my candid thoughts here, but maybe the best idea would be to reflow them by hand (heat gun), and then apply the heat sinks to stop the vicious cycle. Honestly I feel uncomfortable insulating one of the warmest components in the box, regardless of if it is producing quick results.

I've also heard that these RAM chips are overclocked, and this is why they're so warm... Can anyone confirm or add to this?

I'm pretty confused myself. There are thoughts that its the RAM chips that are the problem, and methods that deal with them help bricked Xboxes. Others deal with supporting the CPU and GPU after reflow, and those methods support that as well. Oy vay.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Kurto2021 on March 15, 2007, 09:55:00 PM

well since this one sounds silly I will just wait for a better solution.

Why do the Xboxes with the thermal pads already installed break?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 15, 2007, 10:15:00 PM

QUOTE(Kurto2021 @ Mar 16 2007, 04:26 AM)

well since this one sounds silly I will just wait for a better solution.

Why do the Xboxes with the thermal pads already installed break?

Because of the flex of the motherboard due to the X retension device on the heatsinks.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 15, 2007, 10:26:00 PM

I said that I would post videos and photos and I will.
I had problem with my pc. I made the video with my digital camera (Casio EX-Z60) and the video is not working on PC, I have just audio. It's a problem with a codec but I reinstalled a lot of codec packs and still not working.

I send the videos to my friend and he will post on YouTube. ASAP I post the link here.
I put the photos on photobucket and I will post them tomorrow.

In a single brazilian forum we have 30 console fixed with this silly mod just in two days. But there is more than this becausa there is a limit of one post per sign in. But Pacote fixed 5 just today.
A lot of these fixed consoles had early a "towel fix", reballing, and hot gun fix but died in a few days and nothing could fix them. But with this silly mod, all the consoles are fixed now.
I'm amused! It's incredible.

I really don't know what is the scientific explain for this and for how long my 360 will survive.
I don't know why so many console bricked in Brazil. Humidity? Heat?

I really want that someone from xboxscene, a respectable one, make this mod on a bricked 360 to give the credibility that everyone in this forum wants. Come on guys, it is silly but is functioning! Come on guys, this mod is inexpensive, very easy and fast to do and is reversible too. You don't need to use hot gun or make a reballing, you just need a rubber and 10 minutes turned on with the 3RL. When you turn off then turn on again, the 3RL will be gone.

Mine is functioning for 13 hours straight. I turned on and off a few times just to see if it's stable.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: kidman64 on March 16, 2007, 01:16:00 AM

QUOTE(brywalker @ Mar 16 2007, 04:46 AM)

Because of the flex of the motherboard due to the X retension device on the heatsinks.

so removing them should help?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: drastic on March 16, 2007, 03:02:00 AM

my 360 went back to 3rol/"checkerboard" after 3 weeks of working flawlessly with first the "toothpick trick" and second the "heatgun fix"

anxious to try out the "glue and eraser" solution tomorrow ... i want to play ninja turtles ! yeah!!!!

brasil!!

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 16 2007, 05:33 AM)

you just need a rubber and 10 minutes turned on with the 3RL.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 04:13:00 AM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 16 2007, 12:03 AM)

Forgive my candid thoughts here, but maybe the best idea would be to reflow them by hand (heat gun), and then apply the heat sinks to stop the vicious cycle. Honestly I feel uncomfortable insulating one of the warmest components in the box, regardless of if it is producing quick results.

Almost imposssible to reflow them by using just a heat gun. There are a lot of small components (mainly declouping capacitors) around the memories, very near to them. If you try a heat gun around the memories, those components will fall out the MoBo first. CPU and GPU you can do that because there is nothing around (although I have tried the hot gun in CPU/GPU and got only temporary results, mainly because it also warms the MoBo).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 16, 2007, 06:38:00 AM

QUOTE(drastic @ Mar 16 2007, 05:33 AM)

my 360 went back to 3rol/"checkerboard" after 3 weeks of working flawlessly with first the "toothpick trick" and second the "heatgun fix"
anxious to try out the "glue and eraser" solution tomorrow ... i want to play ninja turtles ! yeah!!!!

brasil!!

"Toothpick trick"??? Is there a link to this trick??
In our forum here in Brazil, the heat gun fix is now abandoned. It can damage the board. The rubber mod is proving suficient and efficient to fix bricked 360 with code error 0102 and 0020.
I hated Ninja Turtles. I don't knows what they did with the game but it's not as fun as the arcade version that I played when was a kid.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 07:03:00 AM

TUTORIAL: Rubber Pads Mod - Possible solution for 3RLs error code 0102

This tutorial describes a method to avoid the Xbox 360 3RLs with error code 0102, which causes freezes, artefacts and graphical errors.

First a disclaimer: follow these instructions at your risk and will. Only open your console if you are familiar with eletronic equipments such assembling PCs, etc. It is really easy to perform, but mistakes can be done and I do not assume any responsabilities for your acts.

Now some general thoughts about the 3RLs and my experience with them. last October my console started to freeze. First not very often, later on it started to get really bad, freezing after a few minutes of gameplay and finally giving me the fatal 3RL. When it froozes, the screen was just like paused, without any artefacts or graphical errors. The console sometimes frooze in the middle of a sound, like a beep. I could not return to the dash, I could not turn the console off using the controller. I could remove the disk from the drive, but the screeen was still frozen. Turning the console off and on again just frooze it again. At time same time by brother's console start to show problems too, freezing as well, but with weird graphical error and artefacts. Since none of our consoles have any kind of guarantee I start to look for a solution. First I tried the hot air gun method, trying to resold the CPU/GPU and NorhtBridge. Note that I was using a professional hot gun desk and I am fully capable of doing this job (doing it with all care, very quickly around the chips edge). Here I may note that I could not perform such trick in the memories ifselves, because they are BGA mounted in the board very close to small components (manly declouping capacitors) that will just fell down from the board before the memory could be repaired by the hot air flow. I tried it several times with limite success. The console worked again, but only for a few days. But that gave me an indication that it was not a fault in the CPU/GPU itselves, since the problem is random (a chip that stop to work stop to work period). So it should be really a problem in the BGA cold dry sold. Since I already performed the hot gun over the CPU and GPU my attention was pointed to the memories. I noticed that when manipulating the motherboard, if I put a small pressure over the memories that lies in the botton of the motherboard the console started to work again for a limited time. Then I came to my conclusion, which I explain bellow:

Why I believe the 3RLs errors are related to the memories beneath the motherboard: the GPU and CPU warms a lot. They get really hot. The cold BGA solder used in the memories are very sensitive to high temperatures and specially to the great range of difference of temperature when the console is warming up/cooling down (the motherboard may be flexing a little). The temperature and the flexing can crack the solder joints, or at least weaker them. Combined with the fact that four of the memory chips are placed in the inferior side of the motherboard, against the gravity force, this could lead to small displacements in the joints, a bad contact that is reported as the 3RLs in the memory test of the boot sequence of the 360. This bad contact can cause a range of different errors (mainly 0102) due to the fact that the memory is shared between CPU and GPU. Depending which of the memory chip is presenting the problem, a different memory address is affected and different symptons can arise. Please note that I am not blaming only the gravity in this situation (after all it is not a strong force) but also the process of the flexing the motherboard when the warms up/cools dowm (that also affects badly the memory joints in the inferior side of the motherboard).
It was necessary something that keep the memory chips firmly in place, very tightly with the motherboard. I tried different "foots" or pads for the memories, and came out with this solution. The main idea is to introduce a small (enphasys on small) pressure over the memory chips that are mounted in the inferior side of the motherboard, to keep them as much tight with the motherboard as possible, preventing some contact errors. Do not bend your motherboard. Rubber (cutted from normal plastic eraser) was choosed because it is a cheap non-thermal conductive material and easy to mold. You can use any material which can be mold and cut, as long as it does not deform over time with temperature and applies a soft pressure over the chips. In my experience it does not work if the pressure is not applied in the edge of the memories, so the pad must cover its boarders. Cuts must be perfect because if you use one too "high" the others will loose contact between the memories and the shell. It does not work if you put pressure directly in the motherboard, it must be over the memories, the problem is memory joint related. The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell (you can use silicone as well).
The newest batch of the 360 console already came with four small thermal pads over those memories. Prove that MS is aware of the problem and trying to solve it. However I found out that they are too softly and over time cannot sustain the motherboard/memories any longer, and the 3RLs came anyway. I already fixed some consoles that originally came with those thermal pads using the rubber pads.
Ok, let's start. You will need to open your Xbox 360 first. I have made a tutorial for that also, but it is still in Portuguese and I do not see a reason to translate it, since there is plenty of tutorials in English in the net. You do not need to remove the heatsinks.
IPB Image

Remove the motherboard from the inner shell and turn it upside down. Around the GPU you will find four memory chips, 2 at the side of the GPU, 2 in front of it. Those are the memories you will have to make pads for support.
IPB Image

You will need for this mod just a normal plastic rubber, a small knive to cut it and some plastic adhesive or glue.
IPB Image

With a small knive cut four little slices from the eraser, with aproximatly 0.4 cm. The best rubber type to use it the one that is kind of plastic (sorry I do not know the exactly term for it in English) not pure rubber, which is too soft. It has to be firm. After cutting the slices, make them of the same size of the memory chips (a little bit larger). Make two of the pads a little higher than the other twos (like 0.4 for the memories at the side of the GPU and 0.3/0.35 for the memories in front of it).
IPB Image

The cutted pads:
IPB Image

Use very little gum (dry one, the one that comes in sticks) only to place the pads over the memories when you place the motherboard back in the inner shell. Only a little. You can use other types of adhesives.
IPB Image

Put back the motherboad in the shell, taking care that the pads do not fall down or be displaced. You will notice that the motherboard may be a little 'higher" than usual inside the shell, by looking at the sync botton in the front of the shell, that may be a little (again, very little) displaced from the hole in the shell.
IPB Image

Now plug the front daughterboard back in place, but do not fix its screws yet. Turn the inner shell upside down, keeping the motherboard fixed in place. Start to screw back the CPU and GPU screws (do not press them too much). Put back the small silver screws that fixes the motherboard to the shell, but distribute the pression by screwing first 2 of the 3 in front of the motherboard, the 2 in the back, later the 2 on each side and finally the remaining one in the front of the motherboard. Now the motherboard must be perfectly alligned inside the shell and the pressure must be over the memories.
Turn upside up again the shell, screw the daughterboard, plug the fans in the motherboard and put back the plastic fan shroud. Plug back the SATA DVD drive. Now we can start the first test.
Turn on the Xbox 360. On most cases the problem (3RLs or freezing) is still there. You should keep the console on for a few minutes the first time after the mod, even if it display errors (just this first try) because I have seem cases (mostly of them) that it does not work immediatly. The warming up of the motherboard is important in this first step. It could be because it bends the motherboard to the right position and the pads them keep it in that position, but I believe it is because somehow it pushes the memories joints to the right position. It is not like melting the joint, but the heat provided by the motherboard together to the pressure applied to the weak joints somehow works. I repeat: the pressure must be exactly over the edges of the memories, specially the ones at the side of the GPU.

After 5 or 10 minutes the process is over. You can turn off the console. Now the 3RLs and freezing are gone and the console should start immediatly everytime. I do recommend to you to keep the console open for a few tries, because you may have to adjust the position and high of the pads. A displaced or too high pad will lead to the back of the 3RLs. After you feel confortable with the modification, you can finished to close the console.

Ok, it sounds funny but it works. More than 40 consoles have been fixes in a few hours around here. I do no claim to fully understand why it works (flexing of the motherboard or weaken memories joints), but it really works. You can easly test it and if it works, start spreeding the news. The only thing I request is that the credit of this mod is given to the right person.

Chiaroscuro (aka Marcelo in real live)
Xbox Live Gamertag: MrChiaroscuro

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: brywalker on March 16, 2007, 08:32:00 AM

Well after seeing those pics, that settles it.

It is just flexing the board back into position.

I'm confident that this will do damage to the memory in the long run, but it is just solving the core issue - motherboard flex from the X clamps.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mattygabe on March 16, 2007, 08:03:00 AM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 16 2007, 12:33 AM)

I really want that someone from xboxscene, a respectable one, make this mod on a bricked 360 to give the credibility that everyone in this forum wants. Come on guys, it is silly but is functioning! Come on guys, this mod is inexpensive, very easy and fast to do and is reversible too.

Mine is functioning for 13 hours straight. I turned on and off a few times just to see if it's stable.

The reason why a lot of us over here aren't about to do it is because we are afraid that it will permanently damage our boards. Opposed to Marcelo (Mr.Chiaroscuro), who believes the memory doesn't get hot (I'll get to that in a moment), it is our belief that they're the warmest components.

Let me know if yours is still functioning in a week/month/few months. I hope you are all right, honestly, because this may lead to permanently bricked Xboxes if our fears re: the memory heat are confirmed.

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 16 2007, 09:10 AM)

The memories on the 360 I opened up run very cold, they do not warm up (only a little). The GPU and CPU in other hand, get really hot. For that reason I do not think it will be a problem to put rubber foots/pads on it. The clue used is from the stick type, very little, just to keep the pads attached to the memories when putting the motherboard back in the inner shell (you can use silicone as well).

The newest batch of the 360 console already came with four small thermal pads over those memories. Prove that MS is aware of the problem and trying to solve it.

I appreciate your in-depth picture-related tutorial. If this does work, it'll help quite a lot of people. First, though, a few points I need you to directly answer...

RBJTech used an infrared temperature sensor (not his finger, as you did) to test the temperatures of the components. He tested the thermal limits of the processor (which ended up at about 70deg. C), and that sounded right on in comparison with normal PC processors, so I feel there's value in his numbers (let alone his reputation here at XS). He stated that the memories are in fact the warmest part of the 360, but because they do not have heatsinks their heat dissipates quickly. When you make that assumption that the memories are not the warmest component in the box, it scares me that you then begin to make other assumptions based on that when a lot of people on here are saying otherwise (read in full: 3RL: Design Flaw).

Also, from that topic, i read this:

QUOTE(dokworm @ Feb 23, 2007)

We seem to be seeing consoles where the motherboard has flexed and a few of the solder balls or pads have given way at the corner of the CPU or GPU as pointed out by SMTRework and others.

There is no assumption that it MIGHT be the GPU/CPU, more that they took an actual look at it, and it WAS the CPU/GPU. Not that it is in EVERY console, but it really seems to me that you're just building assumptions on top of one another. I need more proof, and so for someone respectable on XS to do this and have evidence that I feel comfortable with would be indeed what I would need.

In re: to your statement, "The newest batch of the 360 console already came with four small thermal pads over those memories. Prove that MS is aware of the problem and trying to solve it. ", I thought those thermal pads were thermal conductors, not thermal insulators. I thought the idea was that, once again, since the memories are the warmest component, we want to remove heat from them, not keep it on them.

I'm sorry guys, don't take it personally, but I am still REALLY skeptical towards this method. I know you're not trying to trick anyone, only trying to spread the good news that you found, but I have yet to fully take stock in it. I'll keep a keen eye on this topic, I haven't given up on it.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MiahX007 on March 16, 2007, 08:50:00 AM

QUOTE(mattygabe @ Mar 16 2007, 02:10 PM)

In re: to your statement, "The newest batch of the 360 console already came with four small thermal pads over those memories. Prove that MS is aware of the problem and trying to solve it. ", I thought those thermal pads were thermal conductors, not thermal insulators. I thought the idea was that, once again, since the memories are the warmest component, we want to remove heat from them, not keep it on them.

The fact the M$ added pads could also be to help keep the flexing of the board down. So the pad idea is a valid one, but we need to use thermally conductive pads instead of insulating erasers.

So the idea sounds great, where do we get some thermal conductive pads like M$ is using?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 16, 2007, 10:49:00 AM

QUOTE(MiahX007 @ Mar 16 2007, 11:57 AM)

Forget that thermal pads from M$. They are VERY soft, soft as a bubble gum already used. A user posted a link to a better thermal pad but WHERE to find it.

40 bricked consoles fixed with this rubber fix. Until now, none stopped working. Let's see on the long term but Chiaroscuro who is the autor of this fix have 2 consoles fixed with rubber and they are working for four months now.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DaniloMQ on March 16, 2007, 10:55:00 AM

iF the theory is just to FLEX the board, why just using the rubber into the board but NOT into the memory?

this will have the same effect and not harm the memory

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 11:28:00 AM

To Mattgabe: I already stated that I did not have a lab or probes in hand to better test the solution, I believe RBJTech concers are pretty much valid. That is why I wanted to post it here, after some results in Brazil: to get a better insight from people with the right equipment in hand.

I also do have the same concern about the rubber pad being a insulated material, I would like to find another material (thermal conductive) with the same characterists from the rubber to test it.

What I have already done:
- softier materials do not work. The same thermal pads as MS uses are really to soft for the job. Even softier rubbers, not the plastic one, also do not work for a long time (they dry and getter smaller in size, loosing the pressure).
- Smaller pads do not work. The pressure must be also at the edges of the memory. Smaller pads may work for a while, but the 3RLs will come back.
- Pads directly to the motherboard also do not work. The pressure must be over the memories, specially the 2 located at the side of the GPU. It is somehow related to the memories joints.

What I will like to do:
- find a thermal condutive material as I stated above, and do the mod. If it still works, the problem is solved by the pressure itself (which I believe so). If it does not work, the problem may be being solved by the exact fact that the rubber is a insulated material, and the heat generated from memories may be dissipating from some other place, like from the side or bellow the memory, affecting the joints.

A last note: I have a console working for almost 4 months using this modification (since December). No side-effect was noticed. I did have to align the pads once in beginning of January (they felt of the correct place) nothing wrong was noticed at the time. I just opened the same console again, and everything looks fine. Will the rubber pads affect the memories somehow in the long term? I do not know. Months seems to not be a problem. Of course heat reduces the lifetime of any eletronic equipment, but how much in this case? If it is a few months less working in years it will not be a great deal. At least not for me, I had a bricked system and know I can enjoy it further. If I have to buy a new console in the following years it will be fine.

ANY HELP from this forum members will be appreciated. We can further improve this mod. What I do request in return is the acknowledgement of the original idea (I think it is fair enough).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DaniloMQ on March 16, 2007, 10:54:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 16 2007, 05:59 PM)

- Pads directly to the motherboard also do not work. The pressure must be over the memories, specially the 2 located at the side of the GPU. It is somehow related to the memories joints.
reat deal. At least not for me, I had a bricked system and know I can enjoy it further. If I have to buy a new console in the following years it will be fine.

Pacote here...

i can confirm this, just tried some combinations in rubber directly into the motherboard to flex it and didnt work... the problem its not the X flexing the board, its really the memory

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 16, 2007, 12:04:00 PM

I'm still having problem to edit my videos. I think that I will have to reinstall my PC. Vista is gaving me headches with program compatibility.
But I'll post her a photo of my mod made.
Off course I removed the M$ elastomers when I mounted my 360. Now there is just the rubber.
More than 24 hours functioning.
IPB Image

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: BlackOmega on March 16, 2007, 12:36:00 PM

Dammit, it didn't work for me..

Well I'm pretty sure that I fried my GPU doing the Air gun trick last time..

awwwwwwwwww I HATE this console..

I'll try and send it to "advanced" and see if the can replace the gpu with one from another bricked console..

The problem is I'am gonna burn R$450 on this..

I miss the times when we brought a console and never had to worry about it breaking down.................

Anyway, I can also confirm a few reports of people who had sucess with this mod on other brazillian foruns.. Also some of them had the console working just for a shot while..

Well.. it's as they say.. the only thing you have to lose is time...

ahnm.. btw where can I purchase a new motherboard? someone mentioned buying one a few pages back, do those guys ship overseas?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 12:04:00 PM

QUOTE(BlackOmega @ Mar 16 2007, 03:07 PM)

Dammit, it didn't work for me..
Well I'm pretty sure that I fried my GPU doing the Air gun trick last time..

awwwwwwwwww I HATE this console..

I'll try and send it to "advanced" and see if the can replace the gpu with one from another bricked console..
The problem is I'am gonna burn R$450 on this..

I miss the times when we brought a console and never had to worry about it breaking down.................

Anyway, I can also confirm a few reports of people who had sucess with this mod on other brazillian foruns.. Also some of them had the console working just for a shot while..
Well.. it's as they say.. the only thing you have to lose is time...

ahnm.. btw where can I purchase a new motherboard? someone mentioned buying one a few pages back, do those guys ship overseas?

People should take care when trying with a hot gun. The heat must not be applied over the top of the chips (like some videos I have seem) but in their edges, in between the chip and the motherboard, and very, very briefly (few seconds max).

After the rubber pad mod, it continues to be simple dead, not a sign at all? Post more details.

People in UOL are currently reporting 41 success against 4 failures.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 16, 2007, 12:29:00 PM

QUOTE(BlackOmega @ Mar 16 2007, 03:07 PM)

BlackOmega, even "Advanced" will use this rubber trick.
With R$ 450 you buy a new motherboard at consolextras.com. Pay to put another GPU on a board that was fried with a hot gun is not a clever thing to do.
More than 40 consoles fixed with this trick.

Does anyone here know some kind of material that have high density (not hard as metal but a little flexible like the eraser rubber) but ALSO TRANSFER HEAT?
I wanna try to substitute rubber with a material that can transfer the heat from the memories to the RF Shield. Doing this we can flex the board to it's original position and cool the memories at the same time.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 12:55:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 16 2007, 03:36 PM)

Does anyone here know some kind of material that have high density (not hard as metal but a little flexible like the eraser rubber) but ALSO TRANSFER HEAT?

Better yet a material that is termal conductive but not electrical conductive, like the ceramic thermal paste, only with the density of the rubber.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 16, 2007, 02:59:00 PM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 16 2007, 07:02 PM)

Better yet a material that is termal conductive but not electrical conductive, like the ceramic thermal paste, only with the density of the rubber.

Cut the centre out of the rubber pad, and put in two thicknesses of a proper gap filler pad inside the rubber... That way you get the hard rubber on the outer edges of the memory (like you said) and thermal heat transfer from the centre of the memory chip ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: EyeRTFM on March 16, 2007, 05:46:00 PM

I just did it and it worked.

An eraser and a UHU stick. Got the 3RL when first started, then left on for a while. Restarted and it worked. ........ with ONE flaw!!!

The fan noise is very loud ... I mean it is very noisy. Starts out with a hum and suddenly becomes really loud and almost overshadows the sound of the DVD when spinning full blast.

I searched the forums, and I will try to realign the the heatsinks, will update later.

Anyone has an idea on what else to do, especially the guys from Brazil who have been doing this for a while. Please let me know.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DaniloMQ on March 16, 2007, 07:12:00 PM

The fan is louder cause this mod makes the memory really hot (more then already is) so the x360 puts the fans into 12v mod when detect that the system is very hot

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: belke on March 16, 2007, 07:34:00 PM

are you still able to plug in a memory card after doing this mod? looked like it was pushing it from the pics.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: CaZpeR on March 16, 2007, 07:11:00 PM

This did not work for me.

Tried with 3 different sizes for the rubber, but did not fix the red lights. Next stop here is airgun

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on March 16, 2007, 08:35:00 PM

QUOTE(belke @ Mar 16 2007, 10:05 PM)

are you still able to plug in a memory card after doing this mod? looked like it was pushing it from the pics.

That picture is from the motherboard without the screws, just sitting in the inner shell, to show that the pads must elevated it a little. Just a little, the case displayed is quite a drastic one. After you screw the motherboard again, it will be perfect alligned inside the shell, just like normal, but with a pressure over the memories.

Regarding the fans: you may notice the fans are louder if you keep your console open. I think that there are different cases of problems with the 360, the ones I got are not getting that hot, there are closed and only a warm air is coming out from the fans, which are normally loud. But I have a Hitachi drive, which makes the most louder sound I ever heard from a console, so...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MiahX007 on March 16, 2007, 11:03:00 PM

Not to toss a wrench into this whole discussion, but it gave me the idea to do this:

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=592527

and I have been playing GOW and GRAW2 on Live for over 8 hours since doing it!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 17, 2007, 12:13:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 16 2007, 08:02 PM)

Better yet a material that is termal conductive but not electrical conductive, like the ceramic thermal paste, only with the density of the rubber.

I posted links to thermal conductive rubber earlier in the thread.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chupektong on March 17, 2007, 02:59:00 PM

Thanks to Chiaroscuro It works for me.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chupektong on March 18, 2007, 02:10:00 PM

QUOTE(chupektong @ Mar 17 2007, 10:06 PM)

Thanks to Chiaroscuro It works for me.

Mr. Chiaroscuro please see your PM inbox

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Pasniper on March 18, 2007, 02:54:00 PM

Just did the eraser trick and it worked awesome, when i first started the xbox I still got the 3RLOD but after letting it sit for about 1 minute I restarted and it fired right up. Now to see how long it lasts.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 18, 2007, 06:55:00 PM

QUOTE(Pasniper @ Mar 18 2007, 05:25 PM)

That's awesome. Now we have 52 (Yes, FIFTY TWO) 3RL fixed with rubber in our brazilian forum, hahaha

5 of them had problem with overheating (2RL), that will be fixed with heatsink on the top of the memories.
3 bricked 360 could not be repaired with rubber but was fixed removing the X clamps an puting rubber feet at the edges of GPU and CPU heatsink. These 3 consoles were fixed something like this http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=592527
This fix is incredible successfull. Keep going and posting the findings.
All 40 3RL fixed are working flawlessly until now.
In 4 bricked consoles the rubber fix didn't work. But these consoles had a experience with hot gun and we think that nothing will fix them.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: sonicsam on March 18, 2007, 07:56:00 PM

i just added eraser pads to my 3RL 360 and it worked! my 360 has been heatgunned twice, both times lasting only a month before returning to 3RL.

after i installed the pads, i let it 3RL for 10min then turned it off and on still 3RL, off/on, only the middle dot was green, off/on, 1RL, off/on, froze on bootup screen, off/on, works 100%. so count me as another successful implementation of this fix, for now at least... ::crosses fingers::

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MiahX007 on March 18, 2007, 08:55:00 PM

I think my way is better, it accomplishes the same thing, but without the worry of frying the RAM on down the road.

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=592527

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 18, 2007, 10:05:00 PM

here in the usa bestbuy sells heatsink packs that have small enough heatsinks to do this. bfg, the company that makes graphics cards is who makes them .. much better than erasers.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: L337 5n1pZ0R on March 18, 2007, 11:40:00 PM

I have been from forum to forum searching for a prompt fix on the three red light 0102 error code. I used the heatgun for about 5 minutes, and I did this (eraser method). I added a cooling modification (60mm 12v fan) too. The system booted the very FIRST time after doing these things. The system would not boot after attempting to for probably 100 times at the LEAST before these mods (so it DID have bad connections).

Thank you for the valuable information. I know there are probably different/better methods, but I was trying EVERY method I could find at the time (in order of finding them) and this one came first and worked for me!

System has been started 10 different times so far within the past three days. I played the first mission of GOW, and some other junk with it. Still runs great.

Thank you!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 19, 2007, 07:24:00 AM

QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Mar 19 2007, 12:36 AM)

here in the usa bestbuy sells heatsink packs that have small enough heatsinks to do this. bfg, the company that makes graphics cards is who makes them .. much better than erasers.

If you are talking about coper ou aluminun heatsinks, here we have those too. But they are hard and will brake the memories if we use them to put pressure over them. If you are talking about another material, post the link.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: stevew on March 19, 2007, 08:39:00 AM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 19 2007, 08:31 AM)

I think that pimpmaul69 was referring to this. I can't tell what material these are made of from the picture or description. I placed a call to BFG technical support to inquire, but I was kept on hold for over 20 minutes and finally just hung up the phone.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: miikkis on March 20, 2007, 12:17:00 PM

Hi,

I dont write much to this forum, but it has been very very helpful. I ran to 3 Red light about 2½ month ago. First I found the towel and hot gun trick here and those helped for awhile. This month has been a pain in my ass

X0 hasn't worked at all max time it stays up is something like 8min.

Yesterday I read about this fix. I was very very sceptic about this, but I gived shot for it.

Now first time over 2month I have played TDU over 2h without anyproblems. I hope this fix is final what I need to do

. Thanks to everyone and great job. I go back to play

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Tiuk on March 21, 2007, 06:44:00 PM

My friend bought a 360 off ebay. When he received it it had 3RL. He sent it to MS and they told him the previous owner had opened it, so warranty was void.

I directed him here and he's trying the eraser trick now. I'll post back when I hear how it turned out.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Tiuk on March 21, 2007, 09:20:00 PM

QUOTE(Tiuk @ Mar 21 2007, 08:15 PM)

Didn't work

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 21, 2007, 09:42:00 PM

QUOTE(Tiuk @ Mar 22 2007, 12:27 AM)

Didn't work

Try turning on the 360 and stay on for 10 minutes with 3RL. Then turn off and on again. From Ebay? Previous owner possibly used a hot gun on him.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Paperstack.1 on March 21, 2007, 11:03:00 PM

Well...shit....mines gave out too after playing Halo 2. Finished an online game, was taken back to optimatch, and it froze.

Rebooted, kept freezing at the opening, then one more boot, 3 ROL now.

Now i'm pissed as this is my 2nd 360 to run with and really don't want to buy another. Someone I know around my way repairs them but charges $100 which is a "hell no" in my book.

I would want to do it myself but don't know if it is really hard like the guy says it is. Any inputs?

BTW, I tried to 15 minute thing, that didn't work.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Tiuk on March 21, 2007, 11:17:00 PM

QUOTE(Xandegui77 @ Mar 21 2007, 11:49 PM)

Try turning on the 360 and stay on for 10 minutes with 3RL. Then turn off and on again. From Ebay? Previous owner possibly used a hot gun on him.

I'll have him give it a try, thanks.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: alphanumeric303 on March 21, 2007, 11:21:00 PM

COUNT IT - it worked for me on the first time I fired it up after placing the erasers on the memories. Most people have had to wait for the 3RL's for 5-10 minutes, but mine worked on the first try. I am going to be Keeping it on for a while.

--1 minute after start up: I did notice the fans are louder than before

--2 minutes after start up:fans are moving even faster than at 1 minute - almost seems like its going to blow up or something.

(maybe this is a good time to replace the fans with the aftermarket ones)

--3 minutes after start up: fans are still as loud as it was at 2 minutes. Its kind of scary, but HEY IT WORKS!

I will update later tonight or the day after as of how many hours I accumulate.

Thanks again Brazil!

UPDATE

After 6-8 minutes of leaving it on from before: The screen went blank and then I got red lights 1 and 3 ...which is from Overheating according to the Troubleshooting sticky thread. Im going to let it cool off for a few minutes and then try again. It doesnt seem that any one else has had this problem in this thread yet. Hopefully it will work.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 21, 2007, 11:13:00 PM

QUOTE(stevew @ Mar 19 2007, 03:46 PM)

yes those are them and they are smaller than they look and are double stacked so they arent as tall as they may look. they are only 4mm tall

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 22, 2007, 07:24:00 AM

QUOTE(alphanumeric303 @ Mar 22 2007, 01:52 AM)

After 6-8 minutes of leaving it on from before: The screen went blank and then I got red lights 1 and 3 ...which is from Overheating according to the Troubleshooting sticky thread. Im going to let it cool off for a few minutes and then try again. It doesnt seem that any one else has had this problem in this thread yet. Hopefully it will work.

Nope, a lot of 360 are suffering from overheat after fixed with rubber. 72 bricked 360 were fixed with rubber but a LOT are suffering from overheating but still working.
Here we are did somethings that minimized the overheating:
- replace the original thermal compound of CPU and GPU with Artic Silver 5 thermal paste
- put the stock fan to work at 12V. This will be noise and you will not have better cooling with other fan. Use the original at 12V. That's what's happen when you turn your 360 now. The sensor "see" that the console is hot and raise the voltage. This is not good to your ears but is good to your consele.
- put heatsink over the memories. Remove the original elastomer that came over the memories and put them between the memories and the GPU heatsink.

Here we can't find a substitute to rubber that can put pressure over the memories but also cool them. Some users posted links to this kind of material that can substitute the rubber. This will be your permanent fix to overheat of the memories.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 22, 2007, 07:44:00 AM

Can someone please try just putting rubber in the same area as the memory chips but not on the chips themselves?
I'd really like to know if it is pressure on the memory chips that makes this work, or just pressure on the board.
I really suspect this fix just flexes the board up which kinda fixes the problem and the chips themselves aren't the culprit.

Anyone using this fix is *really* heat stressing the memories, I'd at least use heat conductive rubber and not normal eraser material, or try it 'off to the side' of the chips

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Xandegui77 on March 22, 2007, 07:21:00 AM

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 22 2007, 10:15 AM)

An user from our brazilian forum also teste putting rubber near memory, gpu and cpu in at least 10 consoles and and had negative results in all of them. Only pressure over the memories that bring the bricked consoles to life again. A few he had positive results removing the X clamps and putting rubber over the memories. Just removing X clamps didn't worked.

Heat conductive rubber will work better and console will not overheat but we don't have this kind of material here.

We had 72 brick consoles fixed with rubber until now but we are expecting posting of american users. We are waiting someone start a test with heat conductive material but nobody did this until now.

We minimized the heat of the rubber doing this, like RBKTeck did.
IPB Image

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: McFace5 on March 22, 2007, 07:24:00 PM

I can easily see how this would fix the problem. I just tried this myself and it works perfectly (although I'm not keeping it, I can see overheating problems comming from this). I only put my rubber under the two memory chips that get covered by the GPU heatsink however and that fixed it. I assume they must run hotter maybe? That doens't make much sense to me but the problem is 100% with those memory chips because as I applied pressure and took it away my screen went from black to garbled pixels etc and then back to black.

So question is, how can we/I apply pressure to the heatsinks without causing an overheating problem

?.

I don't wanna buy another 360, especially when I know this one is in working fine except for these two damn chips.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: alphanumeric303 on March 23, 2007, 12:18:00 AM

UPDATE on my fix:

The overheating was because I forgot to put back on the plastic duct...stupid me. But once I did that everything has been great! I have played about 3 hours at a time and I have not had any problems what so ever. I am however leaving the case off and setting it on a few magazines - so that it doesnt build up more heat from the carpet.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 23, 2007, 07:43:00 AM

The thing is, that if the problem was the connections on the memory chips then they can be easily resoldered (unlike the BGA chips). I am going to try and find another dead 360 and if the 'rubber' trick works I am going to use the microscope to have a look at the memory connections and see if they do have a problem. Also try pressing the board near the memory chips to see if the problem goes away then.

I'd really like hard proof that it is pressure on the chips and not the board that fixes the problem, because as I said the memory chips are an easy resolder job if they are the culprit on some machines.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 23, 2007, 08:00:00 AM

QUOTE(dokworm @ Mar 23 2007, 02:14 PM)

how are they easier? you cant see a single solder joint... and it was mentioned before that i guy tried doing it next to the chips and failed all 25 times...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 23, 2007, 08:11:00 AM

QUOTE(Mr.Chiaroscuro @ Mar 16 2007, 07:11 PM)

i disagree with this statement.. the chips have to withstand high temps to be put on in the first place.. and blowing heatgun on the sides is gonna blow your solder all over the frikken place and make matters worse...a heatgun is too powerful for that.. you need a rework station to do that... i have had only 1 system not work from the heatgun and it is a doomed system that ive tried almost everything on but will always die after a few days, but if he ever brings it back i will do the heatsinks on it

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RBJTech on March 23, 2007, 03:29:00 PM

I have some proper thermal gap filler pads that are 'rubber' now in the BST section for those interested ... UK only though ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: sirsmooth on March 24, 2007, 09:45:00 AM

Sweet

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: cezario on March 24, 2007, 10:13:00 AM

I'm gonna try this mod today, will post the results.
I think you all should try it, cos this is THE solution for a lot of consoles ...
Don't worry about overheating ...this is nonsense: there are lots of consoles working for months ...and you can always add some fans to reduce the heating, so, why bother about it?

Just try it and be happy, if it works for you...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: lazzeri on March 24, 2007, 01:53:00 PM

Gentlemen,

I am extremely happy to say that it DID worked for me - just made it today!

I´ve bought my 360 on an US trip on Jan/06. It´s manufactury date is dec/05, so it is one of the first ones. Increadibly it worked flawlessly untill yesterday

.

Yesterday i´ve turned it on to unlock a few more achievements on Crackdown, and after about 5 min of gameplay it freezed with a grid pattern. My blood froze out, and i thought: "GPU. F*ck".

I´ve turned it of and then... 3RL all the way. Error code 0102.

I´ve started seaching the foruns to find out solutions, and stepped on the original, PT-BR page, of the following mod (oh, my bad, i´ve forgot to mention: I´m Brazilian

). Me & a friend (also with a 3RL 360) used my as a "test subject". And it is working normally since then.

So, based on my experience (wow!

) i can say that it was cheap, fast, easy to do and solved my problem. Considering that we Brazilians do NOT have the option of console replacement, i´d say it was a bless

.

For you americans and others that DO have the option of Xbox replacement, it might sound useless or even silly. And frankly you guys do NOT need to do it. But for us, who are supposed to thrown away a US$ 1.400 piece of hardware (that´s the official price "down here"), i can say that it was a great discover. The creator shoud open a Paypal account and take donations, i´d be more than glad to send him a few bucks.

I´ll keep on "testing" my formerly-bricked 360, and as soon (and if) it broke again i´ll be more than glad to let you guys know.

Untill then, i´m happy as hell.

Regards,
Lazzeri

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: cezario on March 24, 2007, 02:37:00 PM

QUOTE(lazzeri @ Mar 24 2007, 09:00 PM)

). Me & a friend (also with a 3RL 360) used my as a "test subject". And it is working normally since then.

So, based on my experience (wow!

) i can say that it was cheap, fast, easy to do and solved my problem. Considering that we Brazilians do NOT have the option of console replacement, i´d say it was a bless

I´ll keep on "testing" my formerly-bricked 360, and as soon (and if) it broke again i´ll be more than glad to let you guys know.

Untill then, i´m happy as hell.

Regards,
Lazzeri

Wow, very nice news, man! The problem here is that we have a lot more information and discussion about this in portuguese ...even though a lot of the information has been translated already...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 25, 2007, 04:22:00 AM

QUOTE(cezario @ Mar 24 2007, 04:44 PM)

I don't think anyone doubts that it has brought some consoles back from the dead, but to say that overheating is nonsense, is , well, nonsensical.

Those chips already get hot, hot enough for the new consoles to have heat transfer pads on them to try and get their heat down. Gluing a piece of rubber on top that will ensure the chips run very hot is a cause for concern.

None of us know what any of these fixes will do to the console in the long term, enough time simply hasn't passed. But as a long term fix this would seem to trade a problem now for a potential problem later, running memory chips that hot may well shortern their life considerably.

If the memory chips fail completely then you really are screwed.

I'd suggest to try the rubber fix and if it works, then try replacing the X clamps. If the console continues to work then I'd remove the rubbers as it just doesn't make sense in the long term to increase the heat in an already hot console. Replacing the clamps with M5 bolts and fibre washers costs about $8.00, so it isn't a big investment, but seems a safer long term fix.

I could be completely wrong, but it just doesn't feel right to me (in the long term) to insulate something that you would normally be trying to cool.

QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Mar 23 2007, 03:07 PM)

how are they easier? you cant see a single solder joint... and it was mentioned before that i guy tried doing it next to the chips and failed all 25 times...

Reballing a small chip like that is far easier than the CPU/GPU.

It was mentioned that a 'guy' tried doing it 25 times, but I would like someone here to try it...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: geladeiranova on March 25, 2007, 08:01:00 PM

give a try. do it just the way it's explained in the tutorial.
but only in last case. i recommend.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MaCeGaC on March 27, 2007, 01:27:00 AM

I never thought this would happen to me, funny thing is i BOUGHT 2 vista pc's in the last month and had to return them because of vista crashing them... and tonight my 360 gave me the 3 lights... a sign that i should use my money for a new 360? OR trying this rubber phenomenon thats sweeping the interwebs...
Do the new 360's have this problem fixed?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: lazzeri on March 27, 2007, 05:08:00 AM

QUOTE(MaCeGaC @ Mar 27 2007, 03:58 AM)

Give it a try. Newer 360s had way less problems and they have pads under memory chips. Coincidence?

Anyway... What do you have to loose by trying it? ;-)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: elocin671 on March 27, 2007, 06:35:00 AM

does my 360 have pads under the memory? the manufacturing date is march 2006. is my system a good one or a bad one?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dokworm on March 27, 2007, 08:38:00 AM

Manufacture date of March, get it fixed under warranty.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Family Guy on March 27, 2007, 01:01:00 PM

My 360 has the pads under the board but i still got the problem. I managed to fix it with this trick although I didn't use rubber. I had some small plastic rings ( bit like polo mints) that I tried and lo and behold it worked. I had had a play about beforehand and tried putting some pressure on the motherboard above the memory while it was still in the case and the box would work but as soon as I released the pressure it froze and then would only boot to 3 red lights.

Up to now my sons and I have had some good sessions playing the 360 with no problems but I may replace the plastic rings with some small ram heatsinks.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: RDC on March 27, 2007, 02:57:00 PM

The pads under the board on the memory are thermal pads, they're for dissipating the heat from the RAM to the cage. What people are doing with the "eraser trick" is just the same as the standoff idea that dokworm is using, only the eraser trick is a bad idea.

If you're 360 is still under warranty by all means leave it up to M$ to replace it.

Unless they've changed they're quality control or redesigned the heatsink mounting setup the new 360s are going to be prone to the same faults as the older ones, some of which still work to this day, just the luck of the draw gents. As far as the "Elite" goes, we'll have to wait until someone has one and tears it down to see if M$ redesigned this mess or not.

EDIT: Typo

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: msh1156 on March 28, 2007, 04:25:00 AM

my friends 360 started playing up and freezing,so i upgraded the firmware which solved it for a while then it would play originals but backups would freeze then eventually the originals would freeze,by the time i looked at it ,it would crash before the THQ logo appeared on saints row even when stone cold.

i read this and thought what the hell and tried it and it now works again,didnt work straight away,left the 3 red lights for about 10 mins then tried it,and it started working for about 25 mins before first crash,then about an hour,and since then its been fine seems to be fully working again

i did notice the fans spin louder and faster since it was done,and i also added an external cooler which i got to see if heat was the issue and i think this maybe helps as it used to run very hot,way hotter than mine but well done this seems to work didnt sound right to me to be honest but i was proved wrong

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: langnao on March 28, 2007, 10:46:00 AM

Against popular believe, instead of removing the X clamp, I put more pressure on it by placing a stop at it base and thus as what some might say, "flex. the board alot more" ...

improve the air cooling by segment the air channel between CPU and GPU (from a tutorial some in this forum). Been running weeks but keeping my finger cross until maybe the problem returns again ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: MaCeGaC on March 29, 2007, 11:58:00 PM

Well... IT WORKED

! the first 3 or four tries I got red lights... then on the fourth it worked... and its been great so far

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on March 30, 2007, 08:55:00 AM

a few questions.

1)what are you guys using to stick the rubber to the memories?
2)what is that "material" wich i see on others post on top of the memory
3)is safe to put a robber on top of the memory... it won´t melt after hours of use ?
4)how long this "fix" may last?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: xenonguru on March 31, 2007, 05:24:00 AM

news?

the repaired 360's still work?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on March 31, 2007, 08:23:00 PM

Is currently working for me - exactly as stated

Will keep you posted as to its longevity.

Thanks from Australia

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: smugle on March 31, 2007, 11:06:00 PM

It work for me but after a day is freezes but no red light. I try to get it to red light a couple of times but it wont!!
I guess it works I will try changing the clamps like the other tread said! this is in a unit that was 0102 I will try my other unit is 0020...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on April 01, 2007, 12:57:00 AM

QUOTE(smugle @ Apr 1 2007, 05:37 AM)

How long it lasted?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: msh1156 on April 01, 2007, 02:43:00 AM

my m8s has been working for a week now with no probs

i used a pack of assorted rubbers i bought in woolworths and used pritt stick to stick it to the chips cut them to the same size as the chip and about 4mm thick,also added one of those external fan addons with 3 fans in it that plugs into power slot on the back for the 360 and then the power cable plugs into the back of it,like i said the internal fans ran louder and faster after the rubber mod so i figured it needed a little help to cool it down

still got 4 or 5 of the rubbere left from that pack incase i need to do mine or a friend/relatives machine in near future

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: smugle on April 01, 2007, 06:42:00 AM

QUOTE(booker @ Apr 1 2007, 03:04 AM)

How long it lasted?

2 days

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: majzor on April 01, 2007, 01:02:00 PM

My fix has just temporary, i think the issue is the board bending for the X clamps fault, the eraser just put the board in place for some time, then the problem come back again.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: L337 5n1pZ0R on April 01, 2007, 03:14:00 PM

Xbox has been working with this fix (as well as heatgun before erasers put on). Put in a 12v fan mod, and it's been working for 3 weeks now.

I highly recommend a fan modification, as this eraser mod will cause extra heat.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chupektong on April 01, 2007, 07:17:00 PM

Using this method plus moddified the fan to 12 v and add extra fan on the front. Only work for two weeks

Freeze and 3 ROL come back (this problem doesn't want to say good bye yet to me

). I am going to use other method.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on April 01, 2007, 10:51:00 PM

Ok, the erasor fix stopped working for me after a hour long session- was getting 3rlod before and now just getting screen freeze in game - so i figured it was heat related.

I found a shallow heat sink on an old TNT2 card (1.6mm), cut it into four and applied em with 'Deep Cool" TIM - cant seem to find arctic 5... Anyway, whacked the original gum back on top of em (inset). It should now press firmly against the cage AND tranfer heat.

Seems to work very nicely. Will let ya know if it fails...

like this:
IPB Image

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dvsone on April 02, 2007, 05:08:00 AM

QUOTE(gasclown @ Apr 2 2007, 05:58 AM)

... cant seem to find arctic 5...

I'm going to guess from your avatar that your from Australia.

You can get Arctic Silver 5 in Australia from CoolPC.com.au.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chucksd on April 02, 2007, 11:38:00 AM

QUOTE(dvsone @ Apr 2 2007, 06:15 AM)

I'm going to guess from your avatar that your from Australia.

You can get Arctic Silver 5 in Australia from http://www.coolpc.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=127_17.

Question on this... AS5 is just a paste correct? That would not keep the sinks in place over the chips.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ElDom on April 02, 2007, 11:49:00 AM

try the fix I posted, its like 2 threads under this one...

Most xBoxes say 0020, but they fail to realize they have GPU damage, so what I posted pretty much fixes it. (0102)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on April 03, 2007, 01:14:00 PM

QUOTE(chucksd @ Apr 2 2007, 06:09 PM)

Question on this... AS5 is just a paste correct? That would not keep the sinks in place over the chips.

yeap, its just paste, its enough to keep the sinks in place till you put the mobo back in the case, after that the slight pressure (not nearly as much as the erasors) will keep it firm and transferring heat. Box put in 10 hours that day^ and about four yesterday - this is working great for me.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: xenonguru on April 04, 2007, 02:33:00 AM

XS members should start to give some importance to this solution, 3RLD is a huge problem, here in Portugal is very well known and not many 360's are sold.... we have 2 years of waranty but people like us that modify the console do not...(if you broke the seal...) my 360 is from 2005-11-16 never had a problem, but it stays more time off than on... if I get this problem its a way to try to fix it... time to make a Pool? how many are fixed? how many are not?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Mrcon on April 06, 2007, 09:30:00 AM

Ok ill post my results,

I had the 3 red lights of DEATH, i have a modded firmware so no chance in sending back to M$,

I followed the heat gun trick, not using a heat gun but using a hair dryer,

It came back to life but with a noise thats out of this world, i have the quite Samsung drive but it still sounds like its going to take off,

Anyone know how to stop this noise???

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: almanzarj on April 06, 2007, 10:57:00 AM

Hello all just wanted to add my two cents, my console suffered from the error code 0102 and i tried this eraser fix and it work fine. When i turned it on after closing console i noticed that 3 red lights and left it on for 30 minutes and then turned it off for two minutes and i started up again and it started succesfully. It has been running for 20 minutes so far, will see how much it lasts.

below are the products i used for the eraser fix:

Pentel Hi-Polymer® Eraser, 3/Pack - Item 253203 Model ZEH10BP3-K6
Scotch® Permanent Double-Sided Tape, 3" Core, 3/4" x 36 Yards

Thanks Mr.Chiaroscuro

spoke to soon! started playing a game and five minutes into the game it froze, tried another game and same thing. any suggestions?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chucksd on April 06, 2007, 02:55:00 PM

Hi all,
just a side note - (I respectfully do not want to take anything away from the eraser method) but I went with the xclamp removal and so far I have let Madden 2007 play its demo for about 15 hours straight turned it off for 12 hours and am starting on the next long running demo session to complete my initial "heat / cold mobo warp test" to date I have had no problems at all. (some history) - The unit did have the 0102 originally and I tried the towel/heatgun method and both worked for a short time 1 - 2 hours of play each. I read about the xclamp tut and decided to try it. The first thing I noticed when I powered it up was that the 0102 was cleared up (this is without the fan etc - part of the tut to check to see if the CPU/GPU begins to get warm) so that tells me that the problem is indeed in the GPU/CPU area (which fits with the eraser method I believe as pressure is realigning the board even though its focus is on the mems). I then cranked it down tight and reassembled everything and then begin testing. after this final long hour test I will start to use this one during routine game play (every other night 4-6 hours at a time when possible). to test the long term viability.
Again,
Not trying to disrespect anyone just trying to pass the word on something that is working so far...
Chucksd

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: almanzarj on April 07, 2007, 12:19:00 AM

Hello all quick update on my 360 0102 troubles

I removed the heatsinks and noticed the thermal silver compound kind of wasted/dissapeared, so i decided to replenish i picked the below up from radio shack, cleaned up gpu (gently), with rubbing alcohol 50%, used girlfriend's hair dryer

to heat it up, and added the compound to heatsink. I closed 360 and it has been running fine for about 4 hours straight.

ps - i left the erasers on the ram, just in case. will keep everyone posted.

this is thermal compound i picked up: http://www.radioshac...rentPage=search

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on April 07, 2007, 03:07:00 AM

QUOTE(chucksd @ Apr 6 2007, 09:26 PM)

Could you post a link or explain this prodecure?. i´m not sure what is it.. replace the X lamp. I followed the tutorioal on this site but i´m not there. I don´t speal english at my native language so that could be the reason... Could you explain me what is it, and what it does?

thanks

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chucksd on April 09, 2007, 09:03:00 AM

QUOTE(chucksd @ Apr 6 2007, 03:26 PM)

Update:
I completed my testing phase and have had zero problems. I hate to ever say its completly fixed but this is the best I have seen so far.
Good luck!

QUOTE(booker @ Apr 7 2007, 04:14 AM)

Not sure if you did or did not follow the X clamp removal tut but it is pinned in the following link http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=595746

in short the procedure is designed to create stability with the board by removing the x clamps which generate pressure on the board (coupled with flexing from heat/cold) when the GPU / CPU H/S is bolted to the frame the board no longer flexs to the point of breaking the solder connections.

Good luck

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on April 09, 2007, 12:16:00 PM

QUOTE(chucksd @ Apr 9 2007, 03:34 PM)

Update:
I completed my testing phase and have had zero problems. I hate to ever say its completly fixed but this is the best I have seen so far.
Good luck!
Not sure if you did or did not follow the X clamp removal tut but it is pinned in the following link http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=595746

in short the procedure is designed to create stability with the board by removing the x clamps which generate pressure on the board (coupled with flexing from heat/cold) when the GPU / CPU H/S is bolted to the frame the board no longer flexs to the point of breaking the solder connections.

Good luck

What mod did you do? both?

I´m thinking of doing the ereaser first, and then if this odn´t work do the X clamp. I feel the ereaser mod is a lot easier than the X clamo.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: chucksd on April 09, 2007, 02:16:00 PM

QUOTE(booker @ Apr 9 2007, 01:23 PM)

What mod did you do? both?

I´m thinking of doing the ereaser first, and then if this odn´t work do the X clamp. I feel the ereaser mod is a lot easier than the X clamo.

I did not do the eraser mod as I believe it is not a long term solution and due to heat build up it will likely cause additional problems and shorten the life of the componants...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Taher on April 13, 2007, 03:29:00 PM

We have a console with error 0102, 0103 and 0110. Removing X-Clamps and Eraser trick worked for couple of days and then again error 0102 comes up.
After some work on console (heating) it now give us error 0021 and 0022 errors ! when we turn it on, after about 15 seconds 3 red lights appear and error code is mostly 0021. when we put some pressure on Southbridge and turn the console on, error code changes to 0022.

Any idea ?
Thanks in advance

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pricemeista33 on April 13, 2007, 10:47:00 PM

Hello all,
Hey guys I've pulled the removal of the X-clamps off without a doubt. Follow LAWDAWG'S tut and you will be very impressed of the info he has to offer there. Many of the mems @ the scene have contributed to this brilliant mod and indeed it does work! I still have my cushions in place as well and no frickin x-clamps to warp my board anymore. Great job gentlemen!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: splify on April 14, 2007, 08:30:00 AM

I was wondering if instead of a dual sided tape an Arctic silver epoxy can be used?

such as: http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_thermal_adhesive.htm

and was wondering about the temperature in which the erasure compound melts in ...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: w00t12 on April 14, 2007, 08:42:00 PM

First, sorry for my bad english and sorry again if this gets a bit off-topic...

How can I prevent my 360 from 3RL before 3RL?

With additional fans (internal/external) or something like that?
I'm not sure if I should do one of these mods (e.g. x-clamps removal) while my 360 still works...

Do you think I can prevent it from any 3RL-related damage (especially from that memory/solder-flaw) with additional fans?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Taher on April 15, 2007, 02:17:00 AM

I think for preventing 3RL, removing X-Clamps are required.by using additional fan you can keep the console cooler than before, but X-Clamps still put pressure on the mainboard and after few months that can cause the console to crash.
Keeping console in cooler conditions, let you use it more, but still you should expect 3RL after maybe 1 year !
This was what happened to me

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: sirsmooth on April 15, 2007, 03:52:00 AM

Taher is correct.

Its a design fault so every xbox 360 will die at some point, might take years, but it will die(3rol)

You have to stop the board from flexing and removing the X clamps does just that.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: w00t12 on April 15, 2007, 04:21:00 AM

ok thanks for your replies..
But why didn't Microsoft fix this problem yet? It would be even cheaper for them to leave the x-clamps out and they would have less trouble with technical support.. Well, i really doubt that this mod is the final solution.. but lets hope it works for a long time.. (maybe forever

)

I heard a rumor that MS could eliminate some flaws since 01/01/07... would be good to know if there are still boxes with 3RL after that date..

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: blankaz on April 15, 2007, 07:20:00 AM

WHOOOOOO I CANT BELIEVE MY 360 IS ALIVE!!!

i will keep update you guys to see whats up.. till now i played 20 minutes since i did the rubber method, befroe that i couldnt even turn on my 360

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DarrenR on April 15, 2007, 09:32:00 AM

QUOTE(w00t12 @ Apr 15 2007, 10:28 AM)

)

I heard a rumor that MS could eliminate some flaws since 01/01/07... would be good to know if there are still boxes with 3RL after that date..

If they did that then people would realise that there is a design flaw and Microsoft would need to replace a lot of 360's.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: w00t12 on April 15, 2007, 11:58:00 AM

QUOTE(DarrenR @ Apr 15 2007, 05:39 PM)

If they did that then people would realise that there is a design flaw and Microsoft would need to replace a lot of 360's.

yeah, i think youre right... maybe they've done some improvements to elite, lets see..

found something on german ebay today: SiS RAM Coolers
It comes with special thin-thermoglue-pads, size: 35mm x 35mm.. I never opened a 360 so i need to know if they fit to 360s ram-modules.. thanks

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: g@mecool on April 15, 2007, 09:30:00 PM

Hey man, congrats for the "tuto", its helps a lot of people.

Its a cheaping way to fix a big problem

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Metaka on April 16, 2007, 02:00:00 PM

Hi

I live in the UK, and my xbox360 started crashing and had flickering boxes on screen etc.. then now and again 3rlod

looked into alot of the answers on these forums then saw this one and admitadly laughed at rubbers on the memory chips, but as i read through all the posts i gradually thought what have i got to loose my xbox360 isnt working so what the hell, made all my rubber slices 4mm thick covering the chips completely and yes hey presto its been played all day by my son and i had a few hours on it last night and no problems so far!

I kept it out of the casing and turned it off to check the rubbers and tbh they werent as hot as i thought they would be after it had been on practically all day! so make of that what you will but i have to say im not worried about them being there or getting too hot.

Just thought i would post to add to the success stories and to thank the guy who figured out something so simple yet effective, tbh i just think the techys are just jealous they didnt think of it first

Thanks again.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nuke888 on April 20, 2007, 08:49:00 AM

QUOTE(william di mase @ Mar 14 2007, 03:31 AM)

You did invented the X360 too and look, its more the days it stays serviced, then the ones you are playing with it.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on April 22, 2007, 05:21:00 PM

Just an update... My version of this fix (with heatsinks and the original gum, page 12) is still working flawlessly after 3 weeks of gaming. The only thing i added was taller rubber feet (about 8mm) so that the box breathes from all vents properly.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on April 22, 2007, 05:01:00 PM

QUOTE(gasclown @ Apr 22 2007, 11:52 PM)

oh now.. i was in the fence and how this... i´m not sure what to do first. the X clamo or this mod...
I found that this mod is a lot easier, but on the other hand the X clamp is more active with great results from peoeple.

I´m also getting the 0102 error code.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: vitorp07 on April 23, 2007, 02:31:00 AM

i did this trick and now my xbox 360 is completely working
many thanks to Mr.Chiaroscuro
plus its easy to do and dont cost nothing

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: booker on April 23, 2007, 08:05:00 AM

I´m wondering for those who did this mod. How many of you have the 360 still running? And for how long?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Bravoexo on April 23, 2007, 08:14:00 AM

I did a variation of this fix. My Xbox froze for the first time on a Tues. Still 3RL'd and back to working with a couple of resets on Wed. Couldn't shake off the 3RL on Thursday anymore so I decided to crack it open for the first time, noticed the mem underneed had pressure pads. (too thick to be thermal pads), so I reinforced it with a strip of carboard (1-2mm thick), 1 for each pair of mem chips. Reassembled everything, and 3RL's never came back. Stressed it quite a bit over the weekend, and it still works.

(I noticed how the front of the mobo would be flexing a bit down when I screwed it back to the metal case, so I guess that solved it.) So that's 5 days straight it has worked and booted up fine. (even got a electrical power trip, and a temporary 3RL, but a reset fixed that)

I will still observe this one.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: fewtile on April 27, 2007, 12:42:00 PM

Good evening everybody,i just did the rubber fix and it worked.

The thing is though that after a couple of seconds (tested with Gears of War) the 1st and 3rd light start blinking (overheating).

I read about the arctic silver paste and putting the fans at 12V.
I will try the AS paste tomorrow but how do you put the fans at 12V? (it must be done manually or it's automatic?)

If this doesn't work i'll try the X-clamp mod.

Great community guys,keep up the good work...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: out4it on April 27, 2007, 08:08:00 PM

I was also getting the 0102 error code. Did the towel trick and it lasted a few hours. So,couldn't decide which fix to try next; the X clamp or the eraser. Figured on the eraser because I had one laying around. I used a Stadler Mars vinyl eraser. Installed all the erasers and put everything back together. Wrapped the box in a towel and let it heat up for 20 min. Then removed the towel and let it cool for 1 hour. Then fired it up. It WORKS. Now I've been reading up on this and everyone is concerned with heat. I have a XCM fan and LCD and the 3rd fan installed. So I can see the temps of both the cpu and gpu. I put in Crackdown and played for an hour...128 degrees F. Same as stock(without mod.) So I noticed no temp changes. I've only had about 2 hours on this mod,and everything seems fine. Hey if it goes South,I can always do the X clamp trick. Will keep everyone posted.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pricemeista33 on April 28, 2007, 04:56:00 PM

That towel trick is indeed temporary and will only tic you off. I've managed to pull off the XCR trick posted by Lawdogg and RBJ. They are truely great geniuses that have given us all hope in preventing this overheating nightmare. Just be sure to tighten those screws mentioned in one of the steps when performing the replacement. It really works and has been working for me for a couple of weks now. I just had to tighten up the screws a bit more to ensure the heatsink made great contact with the chips core(s).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: out4it on April 28, 2007, 07:06:00 PM

QUOTE(out4it @ Apr 27 2007, 10:08 PM)

I did the eraser mod. But used the towel trick to heat everything up so the chip was properly seated.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: masterofp on May 07, 2007, 07:53:00 AM

Worked for me too. I'm shocked. Thanks for this thread!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: G3iST on May 08, 2007, 02:12:00 PM

add me to the list

it works for me too. after searching the right pressure to the rams my 360 runs now better than new

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: tolien on May 09, 2007, 05:54:00 AM

can someone tell me what to buy in the UK and where from? so i can ty this method. i have the 3 red lights, its strange thou cos i left the case open all night and turned it on this morn and it worked for 40 mins, i then turned it off to put it back together and guess what, 3 red lights!! this is the only thing im willing to try as the xclamp method seems compicated. thanks guys.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ExiZ on May 09, 2007, 02:58:00 PM

This has worked for me too, me and a friend both had 360's with 3 red lights, one was working for a few minutes and one was red lights straight away, after putting th rubbers in both worked straight away and have continued to work on soak test for a few hours now.

So thats two dead consoles revived with 30p worth of rubber and an hours work, im amazed but it worked.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 11, 2007, 03:37:00 PM

QUOTE(ExiZ @ May 9 2007, 03:58 PM)

Still working right now? I like the idea of using this method. It is making sense.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Napzu on May 12, 2007, 10:07:00 AM

I decided to try this mod and with success! :D

I just used doublesided tape four layers top of the another. Then I put correct size patches over the memory chips.

Then I assembled the threesixty and I get the three red lights horror... but then I waited about half an hour and booted xbox again and all worked fine!!

All respect to the crazy Brasilian guy!!!!!! :D

-Happy threesixty owner!!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 12, 2007, 03:27:00 PM

going to try this method! Wish me good luck

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 12, 2007, 09:26:00 PM

Tried the method and it is working like a charm at the moment

(No wonder the new patch of 360 have "Rubber pad" on the memories, it seems like microsoft know the problem so they put those on new 360 but the "rubber pad" doesn't last long, its elasticity failed too fast.

Going to turn off my 360 and see if its still okay tomorrow.

Thanks for those who found the solution!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: pu1se on May 13, 2007, 12:07:00 AM

ok, fun times. 0020 error.

current system is sammy ms25 that was a replacement for a release day 360 that was scratching my games. It's got latest firmware on it. got 3 flashing red lights with no advanced warning whatsoever. Loaded a backup like 20 minutes earlier and worked awesome. Decided to throw something else in and was greeted with the 3 flashing lights of doom. Code was 0020.

Tried this trick with a pink eraser and a product known as glue dots. kinda like double sided tape somewhat. I was honestly not too hopeful it would work so I didn't really go to great lengths to make sure the eraser pads were 4mm. Probably closer to 5 or so. Upon piecing together the motherboard, I hooked up the cables before screwing the top on and let her rip. I got one more 3rlod, turned off, restarted, then BAM!, it works perfect. Loaded up GOW and let it run in-game for about 20 minutes. All seemed well.

Put all the screws in, pieced the box all together again, hooked it up. Then wouldn't you know it? I got 2 flashing lights now. 0011 I think was the code. Overheating. So I broke it open, made sure it worked with the screws out again, which it did, then put the screws back in but very loosely. It did take some trouble shooting but I found the little black screws needed to be tight(er) than the silver ones. If the black ones were lose, for some reason I would get the 3rlod again for some reason. Who knows.

I hope this helps someone. Pretty stoked I don't have a 400$ brick... for now (knocks on wood)

oh, and I'm planning on leaving GOW run overnight while I sleep. Hopefully this will tell me if this fix will last a while.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 12, 2007, 11:44:00 PM

Hi, U get the 2 lights 0011 is because your Eraser is too thick.

Another reason when you can't screw the board tight enough with the Metal case, you will get the 2 lights 0011.

I got the 2 lights 0011 when My eraser is 8mm. I also get the same light when my eraser is 5-6mm, you need about 4mm for the height of the eraser.

Also, it depends on your eraser, the eraser I use was very good eraser which I got it from Malaysia(the best eraser Malaysian student use imo). It is quite hard(not as hard as rock

) Mine is quite hard so 4mm suite my 360(I am still thinking 4mm is a bit too thick though).

You will have to experience it yourself to find out the height you need for the eraser on your 360

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 13, 2007, 12:27:00 AM

My Eraser I used is not really hard, It is half soft half hard, I think. Its a Hi-Polymer SOFT eraser. It says The eraser dust will stick together(which I found it is the best eraser around). Its by PENTEL Stationery. ZES-05

The eraser I used.
IPB Image

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nanamous on May 13, 2007, 09:01:00 AM

QUOTE(ahtze @ May 13 2007, 08:03 AM)

The eraser I'm going to use:
IPB Image

Hope it still works..

Was kind of puzzled on what kind of eraser to get.. white hi-polymer or pink rubber...
thanks for the info I got a pack of 6 for 1 buck going to try this mod once I buy some torx screw drivers tomorrow.

hopefully then I can finally logg on to xbox live and redeem my halo3 beta invite!! wish me luck and if i dont make it back tell my mum and dad i lurv them

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 13, 2007, 01:23:00 PM

Not sure if the eraser you are going to use is harder than mine(Mine indicate SOFT the labe, not sure if yours is harder or softerl), you might want to try 3.5mm instead of 4mm height. But I would suggest to go with 4mm first and if you get the 2 red lights. 0011 mode, you will have to decrease the height.

Oh ya, I have to push a bit of my motherboard so I can screw the motherboard, quite easy modification

Update: My 360 still working with the "rubber Pad" replacement modification, Modified on 5/12/2007 Night

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on May 13, 2007, 02:45:00 PM

I fixed my 360 with some rubber i had spare, but the fix only lasted a week then got 3rlod, so had to resurrect it again hope its fixed for good now. But in the mean time i will have a look about for some better quality rubber for example Hi-Polymer SOFT eraser if we have it here in the uk. Anybody knows where in the uk i could find it plzzz let me know... and many many thanks for the guy that came up with this fix.
And bill gates needs a red hot poker up is piss hole for releasing really badly made hardware.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 13, 2007, 07:35:00 PM

Hi, when you open up your 360, the eraser was broken into pieces right?

That might be the reason why you are getting 3 red lights again. The eraser's elasticity broke down because it had been heat a lot of time.

After you exchange another new eraser, it is working again, right ? I think Microsoft know that problem and that's why they put the "rubber pad" for newer xbox 360 but didn't realiaze the "rubber pad"'s elasticity will failed when time goes by(imo).

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on May 14, 2007, 01:16:00 AM

QUOTE(ahtze @ May 14 2007, 02:35 AM)

Well when i opened the 360 up took alook at the rubber the small block had been flatten out to the shape of the metal case of the 360 i think the heat had got at it and brakes down the rubber, i need harder rubber which keeps it shape more.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on May 15, 2007, 02:42:00 PM

Six weeks - still going strong

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 15, 2007, 03:33:00 PM

Cool!

Mine been working for 3 days

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nanamous on May 17, 2007, 10:41:00 PM

My 360 is alive again! thanks to whoever thought of this crazy idea..

After the erasers were placed there were a couple of freezes so I let it sit on for about 30-45 mins and started it up again... Now its running for 10 hours straight playing halo3 beta with no apparent problems at all..

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 18, 2007, 10:37:00 AM

Update: My 360 still working with the "rubber Pad" replacement modification, Modified on 5/12/2007 Night

Update: I got a 3red lights the day on one morning I think it is 5/16/2007, I put my Aircon too cold and I think my room is below 68 temperature. Plus, the aircon is facing my 360.

What I did to fix it was heat up my 360 for 20seconds, after that, everything is fine

Too cold is not good for 360.

I am so happy. No more red lights yet. My games never freeze. It will at most get 3 red lights early in the morning when My aircon is VERY COLD.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: superkayser on May 21, 2007, 01:00:00 AM

just stepped by to say THX to the author of this fix!

Had the 3 red lights, now they're gone

The mod really sounds awkward, but hey, it woks out just so nicely. Great.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: wellmodded on May 21, 2007, 08:15:00 AM

UMM i see people are till getting sucess on this method i gave up on this method couple months back when i hear about xclamps replacements
how long has a xbox lasted wit this method casue i might try it on another xbox i have to see how long it last

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 21, 2007, 12:44:00 PM

Hi, so far I see someone reporting 6 weeks+ and still working, he usually post the result every after week.

Update: Modified on 5/12/2007 Night.

5/13/2007 No problem
5/14/2007 No problem
5/15/2007 No problem

5/16/2007 : Got a 3red lights in the morning I think it is , I put my Aircon too cold and I think my room is below 68 temperature. Plus, the aircon is facing my 360.
What I did to fix it was heat up my 360 for 20seconds, after that, everything is fine smile.gif Too cold is not good for 360.

5/17/2007: No problem
5/18/2007: No Problem
5/19/2007: No Problem

5/20/2007: Morning. Got Red lights again. Too busy, didn't fix it.

5/21/2007: I open up the 360 and found that the eraser is broken into pieces. My eraser is too soft and not tough enough. Changed the eraser to duct tape. about 2cm long, wrap it for 12 times(about 4cm thick I think).
My Duct tape is quite wide(4.8cm) so I can cut them into 4 pieces. each piece = size of the memory. Only took me few minute.

Played games, no freeze, very smooth. Hopefully this will last longer than the eraser(which can't stand the force and the heat).

From what I see, those who use eraser, if they get 3 red lights, they just need to replace the broken eraser and it will start working again. It won't break the 360.

Duct tape might be more efficient. I will report back again.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ahtze on May 22, 2007, 12:32:00 AM

Ops.. the thickness "cm" suppose to be in mm. My bad

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on May 23, 2007, 09:09:00 AM

After replacing the old rubber i used twice to fix the red lights the third time i've used some eraser rubber and that as fixed the xbox its lasted 9 days now still going strong

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: wellmodded on May 23, 2007, 04:21:00 PM

QUOTE(nukeme @ May 23 2007, 12:15 PM)

After replacing the old rubber i used twice to fix the red lights the third time i've used some eraser rubber and that as fixed the xbox its lasted 9 days now still going strong

Y don;t u just do xclamps replecement it stoping u having to open yr xbox all the time casue it fixex the problem

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: DrJeckyll on May 23, 2007, 05:03:00 PM

I was fidgeting around with a original 360 today and got the 0102. Then did an X-Clamp replacement and tightened it well so the gpu-sink pushes down a bit on the ram sinks. It works perfectly now.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mardy on May 24, 2007, 03:07:00 PM

hi. i tried this fix today and it seemed to work first, but now the xbox turns off automaticly after less then 1 minute, showing 2 red lights. the error code is 0011 - "over heating - If you are receiving this error after disassembling your console make sure to all 8 of the heatsync screws are tightened securely to the board/heatsink holes."

maybe i am on the right way, but i dont know what to do know. is there anyone who succesfully solved the 2 red-light problem after putting in the erasers? i made them about 5mm thick.

edit: before the fix i had the 0020 error

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: wellmodded on May 24, 2007, 04:41:00 PM

UMM 2 redlights in a min tht might it possible that u might have to replace your thermal paste on yr GPU and mod your fan to 12v @ same tme try the xclamps

try and see if u remove the eraser if it start to over heat after a minute if it don';t over heat so quickly when the eraser is removed that could mean the eraser causing the problem not too sure how it would tho

IF it still give u red light like aroud a minute try replace the thermal computer

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on May 31, 2007, 05:23:00 AM

2 months in

See page 12 for my working variant on this.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: wyldstallions on June 01, 2007, 06:57:00 AM

This fix kinda works for me with some additional mods and My 360 was well knackered

My 360 was about 6 months old and had been working perfectly until one day I came to switch it on after it had been sat idle for a couple of weeks and was greeted with the 3 red lights of death. I had the extreme vrs 1 firmware on it it so no chance of a warranty repair.

After reflashing the firmware (made no difference) I found if I put firm pressure on my southbridge chip it would, and allowing it to heat for 30 secs I could normally restart the 360 and it would continue to work. This worked for a couple of weeks but it got less and less reliable.

I had a look on the net for a popper solution and found a professional console repair company not far from me who fixed 360 among other things. After a week in their care and some fixing I got it back and it worked I fitted it with an intercooler and it continued to work for about a month before it died again.

So back to the pros who did some more fixing, this time when it came back it worked for all of 2 days before failing. After a 3rd visit to the repair shop they declared it was a gonner.

I went back to my original fix I then found i could get the console to run if i pressed down on the motherboard below the dvd drive by the left edge of the gpu heatsink, then i used a plastic peg stuck to the bottom of the dvd to apply pressure as the top of the case got screwed down. This worked for about a week before I was back to the ROD

I then tried adding a heatsink and clamp through the bottom chassis to pull the board down, but this didn't work and I then tried the the x clamp vix and variants of to apply force in various ways but this didn't work either.

So then it was tossed in a cupboard in bits and stayed there for a few months. I hadn't tried the heatgun fix, as it again seemed temporary at best and there was the possibility that it could just as easily destroy the 360 as it could fix it.

Then I stumbled on this and thought well I've tried practically every other fix in the book may as well give this a go.

I added 4mm blocks of eraser to the 4 lower ram chips and screwed it all down. Then switched it on no joy. Added the top case and left it to warm for 20 odd minutes. Still dead.

However the 360 wasn't warming up a lot I could still easily touch the CPU and GPU heatsinks. So then I wrapped it a towel, after half an hour I tried again but still dead, so I wrapped it back up and let it bake for another half hour.

After all this it still didn't work and I was ready to call it quits, but I then thought I'd put some pressure on the GPU heatsink, pressing down forcibly on the left side. Rebooted the 360 and it worked!!

I've added another larger 25x50x4mm block of rubber under the DVD drive to put constant pressure on the left side of the GPU heatsink when the top case is screwed on, (the rubber is placed to the right of the lefthand side heatsink pegs).

And now its working perfectly. Ran it for about 8 hours yesterday with no glitches, let it cool overnight and it's been running off and on today for at least another 4 hours and counting.

I have yet to see if it's a long term fix. I had given up with it to the point where I'd just ordered a brand new 360, it'll be typical if this old one keeps running now!!!

I guess the blocks underneath are holding the board up casing it to flex less now when I add pressure to the GPU heatsink its closing the broken connection.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: panne on June 05, 2007, 06:28:00 AM

hi, a german guy here - forgive my bad english - thanks

i have a japanese 360 and just before i bought blue dragon i got the 3 lights of death.

i looked for a way to fix it, since the warranty was void. I found this strange tutorial with that brasilian guy who repaired his 360 with a ...... eraser...

i did not believe this method, but desparate as i was i tried it out.

at first my 360 fans were acting crazy, using the ultimate turbo speed they nearly flew out of the box...

then i reduced the thickness of my rubber from 4 to 3mm (extremly hard rubber).

i switched the console on and 3 red lights appeared. I thought "oh well, might aswell wait for 25minutes now - but i dont think it'll work" after 25minutes i turned the console of and on again - and now it works perfectly! i'm running around in gears of war for about 2 hours now, and i can finally buy the multi language version of blue dragon

let's hope that it lasts for a few weeks

what i want to say is: this method sounds crazy as hell, but it actually works - even if its not permanent.

i love the brasilian guy who found this out

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: boomstick777 on June 05, 2007, 07:17:00 AM

Yeah this does seem to work im doing the same thing with my 360 execpt using the 3 penny method instead (more solid should last longer) before I tried that mod my 360 would crash on logo screen or have 3 red lights.

I did the 3 penny mod then heated the console for about 10 mins untill 2 red lights. I left 2 cool over night and now its working again played gears of war for 30 mins today (longest its worked for in weeks!)

No crashing no over heating case is surprisingly cool will do a full test tonight for a few hours..

Basically im holding out till rjbtech does his x clamp mk2 tut then I will look at doing that mod for a permanent fix..

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: panne on June 05, 2007, 07:00:00 AM

mh... might aswell replace the rubber with pennies... next time i open that thing up

and my box didn't even boot anymore, no av signal - nothing. just the red lights from the beginning.

Thats why i thought this method wouldn't help me

but ok, now i know it better

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: boomstick777 on June 05, 2007, 07:42:00 AM

I really hope that this is a step in the right direction for a permanent fix. Some clip on copper heatsinks would be awesome. Wanna see some third party support making alternate xbox360 heatsinks and ram coolers/support.

There must be a market for this type of thing with the next gen ultra hot hardware...

QUOTE

I think dokworm has got a good point maybe there is no fault with the ram as such just the warping of the motherboard my red lights didnt go away straight after the 3 penny trick, I had to heat up the board for a while then got green lights and booted fine.

So maybe now the board is ok again and cannot warp back due to the pennys...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Daveychan on June 10, 2007, 05:02:00 PM

Just wanted to make a quick post to show my appreciation for all of the good information and support here!

I got the three rings of death and read every one of these pages. Decided to try the most risk-free methods and did both the "eraser trick" and the "toothpick trick". I put my 360 back together and voila! .. all is happy and well. I played Halo2 Live for an hour or so and then tested out a couple of other games for a bit... hopefully the fix is here to stay!

Cheers again for all the good support!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on June 11, 2007, 02:43:00 AM

Make sure you get a solid eraser because i tried one other week and the eraser broke down under the pressure and heat after a week or 2 so had to do the fix again with a different make of eraser, the new eraser is still holding.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: srusli on June 11, 2007, 03:33:00 AM

QUOTE(nukeme @ Jun 11 2007, 09:43 AM)

What type of eraser broke down under the pressure? is it a common rubber eraser ? thought that those would be able to withstand heat to quite a high degree.... if indeed that it broke, really need to find a good heat-resistant rubber eraser and if possible finding a thermally conductive material

)

I am thinking to mold out some plastic parts made outta some thermally conductive thermoplastics or some thermosets that can help support the CPU/GPU legs under the board. Thing is that the thickness is different from machine to machine and could not be standardized to a particular height...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: entra6 on June 12, 2007, 03:38:00 PM

firs sorry for my languge i am not good in english : ok i fixed my xbox 360 with ereser its working now for 1 week that good for me ok :
1- i but a rubber ereser in the bottom ram
2- i but a cooper heatsink over the GPU ram
3- i leave the top case open.
4- i add one fan over the cpu heatsink.

that it now the xbox 360 are not hot at all. thanks

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: ricx2001 on June 15, 2007, 11:49:00 AM

I really don't understand what my north american brothers don't undertood.

Well, it work so:

The memory units are really close of a awesome 3-core processor and a excelent GPU. So, it's obvios that the temperature in that area will go high.

With the high temperatures the material used to (alguém que fala português traduz ai pros caras a palavra SOLDA, pois eu esqueci!!! hehehe) SOLDAR the memory will dilatate (se os caras não entenderem, dilatar).

The memory, with his own weight, whi be pushed down, in some time, the contact between memory and mobo will be interrupted, then... 3RL.

The eraser will mantain the memory unit in contact with the motherboard, this is the trick!!! Because this the trick works, its nothing about memory temperature, but CPU and GPU. But, if anyone could use a heatsink instead of a eraser, cool, it will do the trick and help with the temperature problem.

Anyone can try this trick... will work, and why will work? It's just above!!

Abraços ao colegas brasileiros...

Cheers!

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on June 17, 2007, 08:31:00 AM

update to the other post, well the new rubber eraser fixed the 360 for a 2 weeks and again it broke down under the heat and pressure.
So i've tried something else, a shoe sole alot harder rubber, i cut 4 squares same as the rubber eraser shapes.
Hope this is third time lucky.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Protonus on June 18, 2007, 10:31:00 AM

I can't fathom why this is still getting bumped. so here I'll say it in big font since people on this board can't seem to think for themselves:

DON'T USE THIS METHOD!

If I were moderator on this site I would lock this thread. It's moronic that it's still around and people are still doing it. As many others have stated you are thermally insulating your ram from the case which WILL shorten it's life. The only reason this "fix" works is you are flexing the board for better electrical contact. This is a temporary solution at best and could very well WORSEN the problem longterm.

Replace the X-clamps per RJBTech's method (it's the best), and replace your thermal compound on the CPU and GPU heatsinks, and call it a friggen day. These "ghetto" mods only serve to hurt the community in the long run.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gasclown on June 18, 2007, 07:08:00 PM

lol^ I agree that using rubber could possibly damage the ram in the longterm - but the fix idea is good (just need to not use erasors - see page 12 of this thread for a better version of this very fix).

However, saying that this fix will cause damage 'to the scene' is even more ridiculous than your massive font size.

You're just a flamer - there is nothing 'moronic' about getting your dead 360 to come back from the dead

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: CarbonR on July 10, 2007, 02:30:00 PM

and that's why he's banned lol, but i used the penny fix and installed 2 case fans (50mm for the cpu heatsink and 60mm for the case) along with talismoon fans

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on August 15, 2007, 02:34:00 PM

well another update to my post and its been 2 months now and my 360 is still working after the rubber fix nice

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: masterdasein on August 16, 2007, 04:10:00 PM

hey man, this fix is really work??? only with eraser and glue??? there is people here who have worked to him???

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on August 17, 2007, 12:10:00 AM

yes this fix does work but i used some other rubber instead of eraser rubber, i tried eraser twice and it broke down under the heat and pressure.
So i used shoe sole rubber, you can buy replacement shoe soles so i got one of those i cut the shapes out of the sole and used that and its been working fine for 2 months now.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: neosparq on August 18, 2007, 12:28:00 AM

I just finished a variation on this (the 3 penny wrapped in electrical tape), and here are my results:

- I glued down the pennies and reassembled the system, securely tightening all screws
- first boot after the pennies, 3 lights
- I re-read the guide I was using, and it said to NOT put the 8 black X-Clamp screws back on
- I disassembled again and removed the black screws
- Upon booting the 2nd time, I got 1 and 3 red lights (which indicates overheating)
- I assumed that the overheating was from the missing screws, so I replaced the screws again, but this time left them fairly loose
- I booted again, and got the XBOX Dashboard. The fan sounds like a jet engine (probably because it's still running a bit hot) but at least I'm up and running. Played about 20 mins of Blue Dragon, and will leave it on all night to see if it holds up.

Afterwards, I intent to tighten the black screws a bit more to see if I can reduce the fan speed but keep things 3-ring free.

Thanks to all who posted their suggestions.

SparQy.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: dazzler1234 on August 24, 2007, 04:54:00 PM

Hey guys I am from Pakistan and had my 360 3RLOD for sometime. Had great difficulty finding the screws and AS5 to perform the X-Clamp replacement. Tried the eraser mod tonight and it booted right up. Played Darkness for sometime before it gave an Overheat error (2 Red lights). Opened the case and put in an extra fan on top and just finished a 2 hour non-stop session of Darkness without any errors.

Well, apparently it works.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gamesfreak on September 02, 2007, 04:32:00 AM

It Works It Works It Works
Thank you so much...........

Just hoping it stays this way for a long time to come.Don't want to do the xclamp replacement thing... this was a task in itself for me.
Anyway thanks again. Will report back.. (hopefully with positive news)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mistergg on September 02, 2007, 07:34:00 AM

It has worked for a few days but ROD came back after 1 week...

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on September 04, 2007, 03:44:00 AM

mistergg try using something else other than eraser rubber, like i said in other posts in this thread i tried eraser rubber twice, and it broke down after about a week ROD came back. So i tried something else like rubber from your shoes. You can buy replacement heals real cheap, just cut the same shapes as if you where cuting from a eraser, and stick those on the memory chips.
My 360 as been rocking and rolling 4 months now since i did the fix no red light

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: suprak on September 04, 2007, 06:31:00 AM

well this is strange. I'm new here and I only started posting here yesterday, when my 360 started to red light me.

While taking everything appart for an X-Clamp fix I noticed 4 odd pads on the bottom of my motherboard.

IPB Image

I thought everybody had them. But apparently not?! What's even odder is that I won this console in a Pepsi contest so how is it that it already has these pads installed?

However these pads aren't made of eraser, they are some sort of soft material. Below are a few close ups.

IPB Image

Has anybody seen this on their 360 (already done for them)???

Link to my issues: http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=620179

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: suprak on September 04, 2007, 09:19:00 AM

nevermind, I read else where that apparently these pads were added by MS after March 2006.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: gamesfreak on September 04, 2007, 01:44:00 PM

Dont worry, as im sure you have read it was there on all 360's post a particular month in 06.
Anyway i hope the method worked for you. Its been 4 days since i did it, and it seems fine to me.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on September 04, 2007, 03:18:00 PM

Those MS pads are just about useless, i also hard those in my 360, they just don't keep the motherboard in place, the heat from the gpu and cpu warps the motherboard, so you need something alot harder to keep the motherboard in place like eraser rubber but that only works for so long so find some harder rubber.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: mistergg on September 04, 2007, 11:23:00 PM

Hello

I tried some rubber but as it has only works for a few weeks, I used the xclamp replacement.
It has work for 2 weeks and now I don't have any ROD but the console freezes often or stars with some ugly colors (as if it was in 256 colors...)
Console opened, fan dirtectly towards the console to make it work correctly...

Will try something else in a few weeks.
GG

Nukeme, have you sometimes some color problems (consle is working but as it was only a 256 colors) ?

i will try some rubber. For now, I have done the xclamp replacement a few weeks ago and have colors proble sometimes when the console is too hot.

GG

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: nukeme on September 05, 2007, 03:02:00 AM

No, not had any colour probs. I also fitted 2 80mm pc fans to the back of the console with external 12v to them sucking air out and its also sitting on a laptop cooler which it takes its power from the usb port on the 360.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: leo45neo on January 24, 2008, 09:38:00 AM

I actually came up with the same idea to fix it, and it worked and is still working for me. =)

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Tim46 on March 24, 2008, 09:59:00 AM

I did the x-clamp but now I have no picture. What can I try?
I put washers on and tried more and less and still no pic
I put paste on the chips and installed the h/s but no luck

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Praetor77 on March 25, 2008, 10:06:00 AM

Tim46, why don´t you post that in teh corresponding thread (RJBTech´s or Lawdaq´s X-clamp method).

Regarding the rubber fix, I would like to know how long have all the people who posted sucess stories with this method had their XBOXes running?

Has anyone else tried with water faucet rubbers?

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: deadrising2day on June 30, 2008, 05:07:00 AM

QUOTE(Tim46 @ Mar 24 2008, 12:35 PM)

I did the x-clamp but now I have no picture. What can I try?
I put washers on and tried more and less and still no pic
I put paste on the chips and installed the h/s but no luck

Search for the thread about it. You'll have to break out a heatgun.

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: AirRage on July 27, 2008, 11:35:00 AM

No matter how good you cool it. The 3RROD will comeback!!!!!.

You cant cool it any better then i did. I had it good for a month and still came back. anotther time was a week and came back even a day and came back. Runs cool too. I have copper heatsinks on the memory chips so cant get any better then that. Plus Arctic Silver 5 on both GPU and CPU with X-clamp fix. NEED I SAY MORE?

IPB Image

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: Wilhelm_I on July 27, 2008, 12:44:00 PM

QUOTE(AirRage @ Jul 27 2008, 08:11 PM)

Well thats just natural because the heat is only one of the 3 reasons why 360s break...
If you want to know why yours broke again read this http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=655662

Title: The End Of The 3 Red Lights!
Post by: kellyhayes on November 23, 2009, 12:26:00 AM

It this solution gonna work? I think its a bit weird having this kind of solution. Whats the best things to be put? the eraser, the paper or the rubber? I will try this solution if this really works but I have experimenting it on my xbox.

regards,
kelly

_______________
Simulation pret

xboxscene.org forums

Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat => Topic started by: Baraka MKD on March 13, 2007, 02:44:00 PM