Post by: jc0v on February 22, 2007, 08:27:00 AM
Cheers
jc0v
Post by: maxxeh on February 25, 2007, 08:53:00 AM
Post by: adamscybot on February 25, 2007, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: belke on February 25, 2007, 02:44:00 PM
Post by: jc0v on February 25, 2007, 05:22:00 PM
Cheers
Post by: belke on February 25, 2007, 11:15:00 PM
Post by: adamscybot on February 27, 2007, 08:26:00 AM
QUOTE(jc0v @ Feb 26 2007, 01:53 AM) 
Yeah all is still going strong. As for photos I would love to post some but I'm not massively keen to open the Xbox again in case something goes wrong. I am also sick to death of opening the thing after doing it about 20 times in a couple of days. I will keep you all posted with how long this fix lasts. Has anyone else tried this or are my instructions not clear enough to do it?
Cheers
Yeh, explain a little more.
Post by: Textbook on February 27, 2007, 09:47:00 AM
The clips use leverage to hold the heatsinks down. The center of the clip pushes against the motherboard, forcing the "ends" of the clips to pull on the heatsink. If you put something thick under the center part of these clips, you're increasing the leverage, increasing the pull or torque on the ends of the clips, pulling the heatsink more than it normally would.
(IMG:http://www.360mods.net/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10005/normal_fogie_fig10.jpg)
Post by: jc0v on March 01, 2007, 07:28:00 AM
jc0v
Post by: snitchenstein on March 08, 2007, 05:45:00 AM
QUOTE(jc0v @ Mar 1 2007, 02:59 PM)
Ha ha cheers Textbook thats great of you. Have you tried this method by the way? Anyone else?
jc0v
I have and it works great!!
Never wanted to use the heatgunfix, so I tried the toothpicks for my 0102 error. hey worked for a month but then I got the errors again, opened up my 360 to see that the toothpicks became pressed in (dented?).
So they didn't put ny force on the clamps anymore.
I then read your post and decided to give it a try, but instead of using a card I used hard pieces of plastic (pieces of a CD jewelcase).
I placed them (2 stacked pieces of plastic per X) inside the centre of both the X's on the bottomplate.
Then tightend the 8 screws, the screws were almost too short after adding the plastic
This way the GPU and CPU are pressed firmly against the motherboard.
My 360 is up and running again for a week after applying this trick, I've been playing GRAW2 a lot and it's still going strong
Post by: RBJTech on March 08, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
QUOTE(snitchenstein @ Mar 8 2007, 12:52 PM)
This way the GPU and CPU are pressed firmly against the motherboard.
Technically speaking, it's the other way around - the clamps are pressing on the back of the motherboard, forcing the GPU/CPU onto the FIXED heatsink ...
Post by: emi_fer on March 08, 2007, 10:09:00 PM
Post by: jc0v on March 09, 2007, 01:22:00 PM
QUOTE(snitchenstein @ Mar 8 2007, 02:52 PM)
I have and it works great!!
Never wanted to use the heatgunfix, so I tried the toothpicks for my 0102 error. hey worked for a month but then I got the errors again, opened up my 360 to see that the toothpicks became pressed in (dented?).
So they didn't put ny force on the clamps anymore.
I then read your post and decided to give it a try, but instead of using a card I used hard pieces of plastic (pieces of a CD jewelcase).
I placed them (2 stacked pieces of plastic per X) inside the centre of both the X's on the bottomplate.
Then tightend the 8 screws, the screws were almost too short after adding the plastic
This way the GPU and CPU are pressed firmly against the motherboard.
My 360 is up and running again for a week after applying this trick, I've been playing GRAW2 a lot and it's still going strong
Great stuff I'm really pleased that people are having some success with this. Lets hope all stays well.
Post by: Thelosersinc on March 10, 2007, 01:47:00 AM
This post has been edited by Thelosersinc: Mar 10 2007, 09:49 AM
Post by: snitchenstein on March 10, 2007, 02:14:00 PM
QUOTE(jc0v @ Mar 9 2007, 09:29 PM)
Great stuff I'm really pleased that people are having some success with this. Lets hope all stays well.
My 360 is stil OK
I was about to use a heatgun on mine, but then I read your post an decided to give it a try.
Damn glad I did that!
Post by: brywalker on March 12, 2007, 10:08:00 PM
So I opened my system up. Come to find out that 1 of the black screws on the rear plate was stripped from the factory! AWESOME! No freaking clue how I am going to get it all apart now. I fear this is my only option, there is obviously some sort of heat issue here.
My only worry with this fix is that it is adding pressure to the components that are under the card. I think that shimming the poles with washers might be a better fix.
A copper heatsink would have been a great fix - I have no clue why they didn't design it this way!
Post by: dokworm on March 13, 2007, 07:06:00 AM
Post by: esmith13 on April 30, 2007, 02:09:00 PM
I also found pressing down on the small chip with the silver label (press it down onto the motherboard) helps most 0102 errors I have seen.
I did the above two things on my 1yr old premium system and it has worked flawless ever since with no crashes or glitches. It's been about 2mos now that it works fine. I use it for 2-4hrs a day about 5-7 days a week, playing GoW.
Eric
Post by: dingobiatch on April 30, 2007, 11:18:00 PM
Motherboard
Plastic squares
Clamps
Metal case
??
Anyway, no luck. Still getting 0102.
Post by: ZZZMaestro on May 14, 2007, 08:26:00 AM
Here's my $0.04 .... (play on words) ... I added 2 pennies on each X brace. With the motherboard removed - I put them on the X-shaped indents (centered). I set the motherboard on top of it and held pressure against it (to keep the pennies in position) while I flipped it over. I then tightened down the black screws and voila ..... it worked.
I no longer get any errors (previously had 0102 error). I played it for 6 hours last night and it worked great... no lockups, or overheating or any other errors.
I just wish M$ would have added its own $0.04
Post by: DrJeckyll on May 14, 2007, 09:25:00 AM
Post by: osamapl on May 14, 2007, 01:08:00 PM
so what i do is (correct me if im wrong)
1.unscrew the x clamps a bit and slip some plastic inside
2.Can some one put a picture up of how it looks with the plastic (working)
Post by: DrJeckyll on May 14, 2007, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: ahtze on May 14, 2007, 03:09:00 PM
Hey, I wonder if you could post some pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Just incase my eraser mod failed when time goes by(I know my eraser's elasticity will break down someday and I have to exchange the eraser). Seems like the pennies will work better(they won't failed imo).
This post has been edited by ahtze: May 14 2007, 10:09 PM
Post by: Cyberlunacy on May 14, 2007, 03:12:00 PM
like the guy who said the screws where almost too short after he added hard plastic from a cd jewel case.
you have to remember your dealing with a naked cpu/gpu core and the corners of said cores are extremely brittle and will break.
also don't use hard plastic.
you also have to remember there are tiny resistors and such right under the x-clip and you can break them off with excessive force and hard plastic.
use a medium density rubber material or cardboard. that way the resistors and such can sink into the material and not hurt it.
now i am not saying what you are doing is wrong but the bricking will continue to happen, i give it less than 2 months and it will brick again.
force exerted down on the heatsink isnt the fix, and can damage things, and is only a temp fix.
i have done several ring of death boxes and simply pulling the heatsink and clips off has actually bought the units back to life.
granted they will break again.
another option and i did this and it lasted 2 months.
take tiny squares of cardboard and drill a hole in the center the size of the x-clip screws.
put 2-3 little squares per screw and tighten the shit out of them.
this also applies more pressure.
but the cardboard under the center is actually easier.
Post by: DrJeckyll on May 14, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
QUOTE
also don't use hard plastic.
you also have to remember there are tiny resistors and such right under the x-clip and you can break them off with excessive force and hard plastic.
use a medium density rubber material or cardboard. that way the resistors and such can sink into the material and not hurt it.
you also have to remember there are tiny resistors and such right under the x-clip and you can break them off with excessive force and hard plastic.
use a medium density rubber material or cardboard. that way the resistors and such can sink into the material and not hurt it.
The hard plastic spreads the pressure evenly so there is not very much pressure on each resistor. Besides it's not floating in thin air and it won't dig into the board. My Zalman Cooler also has a backboard but one of metal and that cooler is much heavier that this one.
You can see how well it works by pushing screwdriver a screw driver into the palm of your hands. When it hurts stop and apply the same pressure now with two square pieces of jewel case between your hand and de screwdriver. That difference alone is huge. You'd need a hammer to smash those resistors under that piece of plastic.
QUOTE
force exerted down on the heatsink isnt the fix, and can damage things, and is only a temp fix.
i have done several ring of death boxes and simply pulling the heatsink and clips off has actually bought the units back to life.
i have done several ring of death boxes and simply pulling the heatsink and clips off has actually bought the units back to life.
The two pieces of plastic are roughly as thick as the black devil minus the height of the clamp and resistors. So the pressure is equal but spreaded.
The force is actually exerted upwards and downwards equally.
The screws go back the same as it went out. The clamp does not touch the casing here. Something must have gone wrong.
Post by: dennijr on September 07, 2008, 11:33:00 PM
ive been sitting on my computer instead of my 360 for 2 months(all fucking summer) cause my 360 got rrod(error 0102) i was about to go to home depot next week to get parts to try something else when i stumbled upon this, do u know how many broaken/extra cd jewel cases i have? anyway, i decided to try it cause it was easy and i thought whats the worse that could happen to a 360 that already doesnt work? sure enough, after some smashing of a jewel case and screwing back down the mobo, it worked...
u guys are my heroes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Post by: bonsc2 on October 22, 2008, 12:49:00 PM
Post by: amalz90 on October 23, 2008, 12:57:00 AM
Post by: snes_83 on November 04, 2008, 04:37:00 PM
QUOTE(Textbook @ Feb 27 2007, 10:47 AM)
The instructions are fine, people just don't know how to put words into images I suppose.
The clips use leverage to hold the heatsinks down. The center of the clip pushes against the motherboard, forcing the "ends" of the clips to pull on the heatsink. If you put something thick under the center part of these clips, you're increasing the leverage, increasing the pull or torque on the ends of the clips, pulling the heatsink more than it normally would.
I had the 3 red light + the 0102 secondary error..... So I took a cd case and cut 4 small squares the same size as the dents in the case underneath the x clamp.
I put 2 squares of plastic underneath each x clamp, and it works perfectly!!!!
I tried the xecuter RROD (red ring of death) fix kit before doing this, and the red ring came back an hour later. The xecuter kit puts 4 small pieces of rubber on top of 4 chips ON ONE SIDE of ONE of the x clamps. I think this makes the pressure uneven.
Anyway, this method worked GREAT for me!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!
Post by: Derfuhrer on November 04, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
Post by: Lugnut on November 04, 2008, 10:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Derfuhrer @ Nov 5 2008, 02:49 AM) 
What happened to throwing out the design flawed X clamps (as per all methods..I use RBJtech's and heat gun) and using crews and washers? Why bother with the clamps, will they not bend over time again..whereas screws and wahers will not be effected by the heat build up?
The only design flaw of the x clamps is that all the pressure goes to a pinpoint under the board. If that black piece of plastic in the middle of the xclamp was expanded to at least the size of the BGA chip you would get equal pressure from the bottom to the top, this would cancel out any uneven pressure on the mobo itself to stop it from bending. The current xclamp fix's with washers and bolts, does the exact opposite of what the original xclamp and heat has caused. Instead of the edges of the mobo around the gpu bending downward away from the chip. the fix now leaves the center of the mobo with no support from below. as you tighten the bolts the heatsink bends the mobo in the opposite direction. Since the center solder balls on the gpu most likely are still intact and fine. the mobo bends the otherway causing reconnection of the outter balls. But eventually the heat cycles will start causing other solder balls to break. In any case no matter what, there are solder balls not making proper connections and there probably will never be a permanent fix. However there might be a permanent prevention fix. If you were to do this before the solder balls are overly stressed. By simply modifying the xclamps to apply the center pressure on the mobo at at least the same size as the GPU from above. That leads you to the problem of all the little resistors and capacitors in the way on the bottom of the mobo. So as someone previously stated use a semi hard material that can allow for the little parts to indent into the material. My method is similar to this and i wont bother going into details because it's so radical from other methods. I have read,alot of those threads and I don't feel like defending myself from flammers. But it accomplishes the task of this thread. Although I can't really testify how well it works on already rrod'd systems because i do it as prevention. I still have ones as far back as 06 that are still working with this method + 9v gpu fan mod. 12v mod is too loud, and even both fans at 9v was a bit loud for me and friends so we went with just the one fan modded.
Post by: BJTECH on November 05, 2008, 01:32:00 AM
QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 9 2007, 03:44 AM)
Worryingly in the above pic of the X-clamps - it doesn't look like they have ANY centre plastic bit to create leverage - maybe it's the pic ? The clamps should have a plastic bit on them as standard that slots into the centre piece - I guess people are just adding to this to increase the pressure.
Technically speaking, it's the other way around - the clamps are pressing on the back of the motherboard, forcing the GPU/CPU onto the FIXED heatsink ...
I have done the normal X-clamp fix and it stopped working is their any fix again????
Post by: yaywoop on November 05, 2008, 09:53:00 AM
QUOTE
The only design flaw of the x clamps is that all the pressure goes to a pinpoint under the board. If that black piece of plastic in the middle of the xclamp was expanded to at least the size of the BGA chip you would get equal pressure from the bottom to the top, this would cancel out any uneven pressure on the mobo itself to stop it from bending. The current xclamp fix's with washers and bolts, does the exact opposite of what the original xclamp and heat has caused. Instead of the edges of the mobo around the gpu bending downward away from the chip. the fix now leaves the center of the mobo with no support from below. as you tighten the bolts the heatsink bends the mobo in the opposite direction. Since the center solder balls on the gpu most likely are still intact and fine. the mobo bends the otherway causing reconnection of the outter balls. But eventually the heat cycles will start causing other solder balls to break. In any case no matter what, there are solder balls not making proper connections and there probably will never be a permanent fix. However there might be a permanent prevention fix. If you were to do this before the solder balls are overly stressed. By simply modifying the xclamps to apply the center pressure on the mobo at at least the same size as the GPU from above. That leads you to the problem of all the little resistors and capacitors in the way on the bottom of the mobo. So as someone previously stated use a semi hard material that can allow for the little parts to indent into the material. My method is similar to this and i wont bother going into details because it's so radical from other methods. I have read,alot of those threads and I don't feel like defending myself from flammers. But it accomplishes the task of this thread. Although I can't really testify how well it works on already rrod'd systems because i do it as prevention. I still have ones as far back as 06 that are still working with this method + 9v gpu fan mod. 12v mod is too loud, and even both fans at 9v was a bit loud for me and friends so we went with just the one fan modded.
I totally agree with you lugnut.
i think i have done a similar thing to you
my xbox was rrod-ing for the second time after the xclamp 'fix.' so i thought i would replace the xclamps, and mod them to apply even pressure
I used a scrap of fibreglass circuit board with some 1.5mm balsa wood underneath, cut to the size of the gpu. the resistors sink into the balsa nicely and i cut a hole for the large smd capacitor.
i removed the little black plastic thing from the x clamp and replaced it with a washer.
so basically the xclamp now pushes down on a washer which pushes down the piece of fibreglass board which is padded by the balsa which applies even pressure to the motherboard over the entire area of the gpu.
its still going strong after 4 hours of farcry 2... hopefully it will hold up indefinitely.
I think this is worth another thread. it appears to be a LOT better than xclamp replacement.
(IMG:http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/yaywoop/realxclampfix.jpg)
This post has been edited by yaywoop: Nov 5 2008, 06:11 PM
Post by: Lugnut on November 05, 2008, 04:19:00 PM
Post by: yaywoop on November 05, 2008, 06:26:00 PM
QUOTE(Lugnut @ Nov 6 2008, 10:19 AM)
Yes, I dont know how its going to work though that it has already rrod'd for you. the solder ball that is disconnected will slowly grind away during every thermal cycle till it disconnects again. But i think you've got it pretty close to getting the system to last as long as possible. How well does balsa wood transfer heat though? I use materials that have good thermal transfer abilities, as i know the bottom of the mobo under the gpu gets quite warm.
I don't see why it would grind away, finally the gpu has even pressure on it, so even with overheating the connections will still be pushed together.
also before i put the xclamps back with pcb/balsawood i loosened all the screws for the gpu heatsink and let it overheat (this is what i had to regularly do to get the box working) so the solder balls should be bonded.
it might also be a good idea to do the heat gunning method, then apply this xclamp mod
the balsa wood is a pretty good insulator, but not much heat is supposed to be dissapated by the bottom of the board - that's what the heatsink is for. I chose balsa wood because it is soft but at the same time will be rigid and able to apply pressure and it also doesn't conduct electricity and won't be affected by heat (or at least the 50-60 degrees that the gpu gets to)
I also have the gpu fan running at 9V
I will post back if it does fail again. but i am determined to fix this problem once and for all. and as far as i can see this is the perfect solution because there are no uneven forces on the gpu
Post by: yaywoop on November 05, 2008, 08:13:00 PM
and the pcb isn't cut to size, not that it matters.
I also made some ghetto ramsinks out of some aluminium sheet, which actually work really well. i can feel the transferred heat when the fans are not on. they are stuck on with thin double sided tape
(IMG:http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/yaywoop/ramsink.jpg)
Post by: Lugnut on November 05, 2008, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: yaywoop on November 05, 2008, 11:26:00 PM
jb weld sounds like a good idea
Post by: Lugnut on November 06, 2008, 04:55:00 PM
Post by: MarkieT on February 27, 2009, 06:51:00 PM
I thought I'd bring this topic back (if people don't mind) and possibly see how long their 360's laster after this fix?
Just that I've got the 0102 error now myself and was thinking of trying the Heatgun fix, but would be interested to know if this fix fixed it completely?
Many thanks
MarkT.
Post by: MacK3 on March 02, 2009, 09:03:00 AM
QUOTE(MarkieT @ Feb 28 2009, 02:51 AM)
Hi all,
I thought I'd bring this topic back (if people don't mind) and possibly see how long their 360's laster after this fix?
Just that I've got the 0102 error now myself and was thinking of trying the Heatgun fix, but would be interested to know if this fix fixed it completely?
Many thanks
MarkT.
well, i still classify the heatgun reflow as last hope resource (i mean that you have already money for another xbox and don't give a shit about that one).
anyway that method is used also in the hybrid tutorial, there's a good theory about pressure made on the board and the tutorial tries to flex the mobo as less as possible grinding down some metal chassis parts. i suggest to try following this one, if you have success good for you. if not take in consideration about buying a new xbox and having your old one as replacement parts (or sell them on ebay).
gl