Post by: mygameswirelesscom on November 30, 2006, 09:20:00 PM
my name is michael i work at games&wireless
most time i do the repairs on ps2 psp x-box and
x-box360 i have repair 5000S of ps2 1000S of psp ,x-box1000S
and x-box360 4 and i have 30~40 to go.....(at the moment)
ok i see thes Forums and big help to me
and by the way i am korean so my engish ist good .....
i have try lots of thing ....(be couse 3red light)
ok some say used heat Gun (yes it works )
(not all the time)
ok some say they have seen Aluminum Foil on GBA(by CPU) cooling BRICK (post cools the CPU)
(yes they(MS) massup BIG TIME ) yes i have seen the ALUMINUM FOIL
i remove the pice and WILL try ....(up date soon)
PS. i could post more info but my engish is very pool
But i will try to let you know more how 360repairs are going soon!
hi i back !!
yes it want good so far
yes try to remove Aluminum Foil pice and try it
same 3 red light and i try the cord ..... but no good!
so i try 1more time with heat gun
same 3 red light
all my 3 xbox360 have 3redlight
no dashboard i see 0
(my gusse is that they try everthing befor they sent to me)
what i did was last try i put power and Press and hold the sync up button
hey it work !!
i have more to fex ...........
i will keep post how xbox360 repairs r going see you soon!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 02, 2006, 04:20:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 1 2006, 04:51 AM) 
hi i am new to a Forums
my name is michael i work at games&wireless
most time i do the repairs on ps2 psp x-box and
x-box360 i have repair 5000S of ps2 1000S of psp ,x-box1000S
and x-box360 4 and i have 30~40 to go.....(at the moment)
ok i see thes Forums and big help to me
and by the way i am korean so my engish ist good .....
i have try lots of thing ....(be couse 3red light)
ok some say used heat Gun (yes it works )
(not all the time)
ok some say they have seen Aluminum Foil on GBA(by CPU) cooling BRICK (post cools the CPU)
(yes they(MS) massup BIG TIME ) yes i have seen the ALUMINUM FOIL
i remove the pice and WILL try ....(up date soon)
PS. i could post more info but my engish is very pool
But i will try to let you know more how 360repairs are going soon!
hi i back !!
yes it want good so far
yes try to remove Aluminum Foil pice and try it
same 3 red light and i try the cods ..... but no good!
so i try 1more time with heat gun
same 3 red light
all my 3 xbox360 have 3redlight
no dashboard i see 0
(my gusse is that they try everthing befor they sent to me)
what i did was last try i put power and Press and hold the sync up button
hey it work !!
i have more to fex ...........
i will keep post how xbox360 repairs r going see you soon!
hi yes one that 360 i fround Aluminum Foil pice...
yes i test..........aboth 3~4hrs of working..........good!!!
P.S i have fix 360s more i see more i think it is the ___ _becouse_______________ .
what do you think?
Post by: daniel390 on December 03, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 2 2006, 05:27 PM)
hi yes one that 360 i fround Aluminum Foil pice...
yes i test..........aboth 3~4hrs of working..........good!!!
P.S i have fix 360s more i see more i think it is the ___ _becouse_______________ .
what do you think?
HEY MAN I READ THIS ITS VERY GOOD BUT CAN U EXPLAIN THIS BECAUSE I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM OM MY XBOX360 PLEASE. I CALL MICROSOFT AND THEY WAN'T $140 TO FIX THIS, PLEASE HELP ME. THANKS.
DANIEL JIMENEZ
Post by: Boiker on December 03, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
You know what? They should have a caps lock thread... just for you. Last time I looked Shakespeare wasn't written in capital letters either.
Being a new member, it would certainly be a shame to see you suddenly banned after only 3 posts wouldn't it?
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 05, 2006, 11:59:00 PM
QUOTE(daniel390 @ Dec 3 2006, 07:09 PM) 
HEY MAN I READ THIS ITS VERY GOOD BUT CAN U EXPLAIN THIS BECAUSE I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM OM MY XBOX360 PLEASE. I CALL MICROSOFT AND THEY WAN'T $140 TO FIX THIS, PLEASE HELP ME. THANKS.
DANIEL JIMENEZ
hey sorry for leat respond! (YouTube Service <[email protected] ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
it is not too hard to try but you must be very caryful with removeing the pice that horing the
heatsiking unit (heat gun dose not work 100%)
i say 60%~70% and some time it will come back 3red light
sorry for my pool engrish !!
P.S. i have fex more 360 but some comes back with 2 red light
so i have to rerepair some 360unity ...
some say in this Forums mostey is the reson for the all
so i have and see y and how to be sure that mostey is the reson
i have some pohto wich i will post soon !
ones i have repair the 360 that came back with 3 red light ...
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 6 2006, 07:27 AM)
hey sorry for leat respond! (YouTube Service <[email protected] you will see it search for it)
it is not too hard to try but you must be very caryful with removeing the pice that horing the
heatsiking unit (heat gun dose not work 100%)
i say 60%~70% and some time it will come back 3red light
sorry for my pool engrish !!
P.S. i have fex more 360 but some comes back with 2 red light
so i have to rerepair some 360unity ...
some say in this Forums mostey is the reson for the all
so i have and see y and how to be sure that mostey is the reson
i have some pohto wich i will post soon !
ones i have repair the 360 that came back with 3 red light ...
Post by: madmackem on December 06, 2006, 12:45:00 PM
QUOTE
what i did was last try i put power and Press and hold the sync up button
hey it work !!
hey it work !!
Ive started getting 3 reds now - what does that mean from OP? where/what is the sync up button?
i think my box might be overheating, it comes on to dash, loads a game then freezes, or i get nothing on screen and 3 reds any ideas?
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 06, 2006, 04:49:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 3 2006, 12:27 AM)
hi yes one that 360 i fround Aluminum Foil pice...
yes i test..........aboth 3~4hrs of working..........good!!!
P.S i have fix 360s more i see more i think it is the ___ _becouse_______________ .
what do you think?
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 06, 2006, 05:16:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 1 2006, 04:51 AM)
hi i am new to a Forums
my name is michael i work at games&wireless
most time i do the repairs on ps2 psp x-box and
x-box360 i have repair 5000S of ps2 1000S of psp ,x-box1000S
and x-box360 4 and i have 30~40 to go.....(at the moment)
ok i see thes Forums and big help to me
and by the way i am korean so my engish ist good .....
i have try lots of thing ....(be couse 3red light)
ok some say used heat Gun (yes it works )
(not all the time)
ok some say they have seen Aluminum Foil on GBA(by CPU) cooling BRICK (post cools the CPU)
(yes they(MS) massup BIG TIME ) yes i have seen the ALUMINUM FOIL
i remove the pice and WILL try ....(up date soon)
PS. i could post more info but my engish is very pool
But i will try to let you know more how 360repairs are going soon!
hi i back !!
yes it want good so far
yes try to remove Aluminum Foil pice and try it
same 3 red light and i try the cord ..... but no good!
so i try 1more time with heat gun
same 3 red light
all my 3 xbox360 have 3redlight
no dashboard i see 0
(my gusse is that they try everthing befor they sent to me)
what i did was last try i put power and Press and hold the sync up button
hey it work !!
i have more to fex ...........
i will keep post how xbox360 repairs r going see you soon!
hi i see more 3red light every day!!
i think some 360 i have repair have overheating !!
so what i did wae i put pice of card in top of the heatsinkig unity so it give more
sucksion !! so far so good!!
i have test 5hrs so i will give back let see if it comes back !!
i will let you know!
P.S. lots of time 3 red r coming becouse
too much past in cpu !!
i have seen a lot ....
hey so dont put too much ok
besure to clean be for you put new past ok
(used artic silver 5 past it is the best)
Good Luck all ~~~
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 06, 2006, 08:16:00 PM
i have some tough in my mind~~
i want too ask what you think !!
more i see 360s i get too think too myself YYY YYY YYY ??? and i see
"Team Modfreakz" discovered that his console with 3 red lights and error code 0102 also had graphical errors and putting great pressure on the memory chips the errors would disappear. This is important because the memory chips, the CPU and the GPU all attach to the mainboard though what's called a Ball Grid Array or BGA. Basically when manufactured there are hundreds of tiny solder balls on the bottom of the chips, the chips are laid into place on the motherboard and then sent into an oven. The oven heats up the solder and in doing so connect the chips permanently to the mainboard. This is used for its low space requirements and ease of manufacturing, the Xbox 1 and many other products use this as well.
What's interesting about Team Modfreakz discovery is that it proves that (his Xbox 360 at least) did not have a good connection between the chip and the mainboard. It's no unheard of for a BGA connection to occasionally go bad or not come out of the oven as it should. If the solder balls were not properly heated in the oven it can easily create a weak or finicky connection between the chip and the mainboard that might be dead out of the oven, or get worse overtime, or even change in reliability based on changes in temperature and humidity etc.
Team Modfreakz decided to use a heat gun and simulate the effects of an oven in an attempt to "reflow" and thus repair any bad solder joints in the BGAs. It would seem that this method was quite successful. Later Team Modfreakz released a video demonstrating the proper procedure for re-heating the mainboard.
From What I've seen, many of the people who have attempted this have had great success in repairing 3 red lights and 0102 error code Xbox 360 consoles. While it does not have 100% success it seems to have worked well for many people who were able to get rid of their console problems altogether. The method is quite dangerous and easy to screw up it is certainly NOT for the faint of heart. I would recommend anyone who has problems either return your console to the store to have it replaced or call MS at 1-800-4MY-XBOX to have the console replaced or repaired. I would only recommend attempting Team Modfreakz's method as a very last resort. If you do attempt it, you do so at your own risk.
and i see
Hi all
Just wanted to pass this along, I have used the heat gun trick successfully for about 70% of the system I repair, and with the addition of 12v cooling have not had any further issues. You know what annoys me is the last 30%, my conclusion is that the soldering is so bad on these even the heat gun won't work
Now this got my mind thinking, what if we could heat the board up to the 400-450 degree mark and let the solder flow enough to remake these knackered contacts. My solution to this is to put the complete board into the oven!!, set it up for about 400-450 as the thermostats are not great, remember there for cooking food! COVER anything with plastic in it (All connectors etc, remove board from case (obviously) and the heat sinks. Place on a baking tray (to allow you to remove with out picking up board and cook for about 10mins at that temperature. Then you have 2 choices turn off oven and DON'T move the board or move extremely carefully to cool slowly. I have repaired about 2 out of 3 other boards like this. IT MUST BE STRESSED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO PROTECT ALL PLASTIC< IT WILL MELT. Successful on 0110 and 0102 errors so far.
Wife not very happy but hey if it works!!
Let me know how it goes
C
How do you cover the plastic connectors? Do you desolder them and take them off the board?
I used the foil backed fiberglass insultation for the plastic parts. The board that have been repaired are still working 4 weeks and counting!!!
then y and y so many error code ?
and i was thinking thinking .................................
went to work and lock onder the mobo i see all and look look look !!!
and i see y !!!!!!!!!!
i need too test befor i post
but to let you know a bet
yes it is macking a shot in bottom of the mobo that is y
and reson for all the error code !!
time to time it will billup a something i dont know how to expland
but i could see the things that macking the 3 red light
if i am right we will see a new malter case from MS soon !
i have some picture but i dont know how to post !! ( i know domass ya it me )
i have 2 way too test if my info is right..
if thingks go well i will post soon !!
Post by: awdark on December 06, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
I know some processes make circuit boards on hot surfaces to melt the solder and all that but I would think it would heat lets say... the memory chips past their designed specs and just kill it altogether.
So are the problems probably coming from the BGA solder joints?
This is an interesting thread though.
Post by: ron350 on December 06, 2006, 11:45:00 PM
mygameswirelesscom
Thank you for posting the useful information and the Heat gun trick link.
Post by: Chancer on December 07, 2006, 01:03:00 AM
QUOTE(Boiker @ Dec 3 2006, 10:10 PM)
^ No need for that, that's just racist. He said he was Korean and to please excuse his English.
You know what? They should have a caps lock thread... just for you. Last time I looked Shakespeare wasn't written in capital letters either.
Being a new member, it would certainly be a shame to see you suddenly banned after only 3 posts wouldn't it?
With what he said (Which I have removed), it's not too much of a shame to see his posting removed.
Please report any of this stuff you see. It's not happening on XS.
Cheers
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 07, 2006, 11:22:00 PM
hi y not
i have some tough in my mind~~
i want too ask what you think !!
more i see 360s i get too think too myself YYY YYY YYY ??? and i see
"Team Modfreakz" discovered that his console with 3 red lights and error code 0102 also had graphical errors and putting great pressure on the memory chips the errors would disappear. This is important because the memory chips, the CPU and the GPU all attach to the mainboard though what's called a Ball Grid Array or BGA. Basically when manufactured there are hundreds of tiny solder balls on the bottom of the chips, the chips are laid into place on the motherboard and then sent into an oven. The oven heats up the solder and in doing so connect the chips permanently to the mainboard. This is used for its low space requirements and ease of manufacturing, the Xbox 1 and many other products use this as well.
What's interesting about Team Modfreakz discovery is that it proves that (his Xbox 360 at least) did not have a good connection between the chip and the mainboard. It's no unheard of for a BGA connection to occasionally go bad or not come out of the oven as it should. If the solder balls were not properly heated in the oven it can easily create a weak or finicky connection between the chip and the mainboard that might be dead out of the oven, or get worse overtime, or even change in reliability based on changes in temperature and humidity etc.
Team Modfreakz decided to use a heat gun and simulate the effects of an oven in an attempt to "reflow" and thus repair any bad solder joints in the BGAs. It would seem that this method was quite successful. Later Team Modfreakz released a video demonstrating the proper procedure for re-heating the mainboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYv6b7MndJk
From What I've seen, many of the people who have attempted this have had great success in repairing 3 red lights and 0102 error code Xbox 360 consoles. While it does not have 100% success it seems to have worked well for many people who were able to get rid of their console problems altogether. The method is quite dangerous and easy to screw up it is certainly NOT for the faint of heart. I would recommend anyone who has problems either return your console to the store to have it replaced or call MS at 1-800-4MY-XBOX to have the console replaced or repaired. I would only recommend attempting Team Modfreakz's method as a very last resort. If you do attempt it, you do so at your own risk.
and i see
Hi all
Just wanted to pass this along, I have used the heat gun trick successfully for about 70% of the system I repair, and with the addition of 12v cooling have not had any further issues. You know what annoys me is the last 30%, my conclusion is that the soldering is so bad on these even the heat gun won't work
Now this got my mind thinking, what if we could heat the board up to the 400-450 degree mark and let the solder flow enough to remake these knackered contacts. My solution to this is to put the complete board into the oven!!, set it up for about 400-450 as the thermostats are not great, remember there for cooking food! COVER anything with plastic in it (All connectors etc, remove board from case (obviously) and the heat sinks. Place on a baking tray (to allow you to remove with out picking up board and cook for about 10mins at that temperature. Then you have 2 choices turn off oven and DON'T move the board or move extremely carefully to cool slowly. I have repaired about 2 out of 3 other boards like this. IT MUST BE STRESSED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO PROTECT ALL PLASTIC< IT WILL MELT. Successful on 0110 and 0102 errors so far.
Wife not very happy but hey if it works!!
Let me know how it goes
C
How do you cover the plastic connectors? Do you desolder them and take them off the board?
I used the foil backed fiberglass insultation for the plastic parts. The board that have been repaired are still working 4 weeks and counting!!!
then y and y so many error code ?
and i was thinking thinking .................................
went to work and lock onder the mobo i see all and look look look !!!
and i see y !!!!!!!!!!
i need too test befor i post
but to let you know a bet
yes it is macking a shot in bottom of the mobo that is y
and reson for all the error code !!
time to time it will billup a something i dont know how to expland
but i could see the things that macking the 3 red light
if i am right we will see a new malter case from MS soon !
i have some picture but i dont know how to post !! ( i know domass ya it me )
i have 2 way too test if my info is right..
if thingks go well i will post soon !!
hi ok
this is what i think what i have done ?!!
to repair 360s yes i have fex all in my job
now no more 360s (but lots of psp)
i dont know how but it is done!
i give back 2 360s onrepair ...
so i say 87% i have fex not bad at all for newbee! (i think)
all the repair i did i keep photos of motherboard
and MFG date. S# ...
i dont know y but i did (in my job we do keep rco)
i think way the 360 is bill they have saftey divice the keeps
360 sayfuer so frome mobo if it shots up it will lock up
and y it gets shots
what i think time to time betooin the mobo and metel case in the gap it will billup
somekind of tural (you will see this in fire damage computer )
if you look at the bottom of mobo you will see this(look hard)
so with heatgun it is oney a mater of time that it could comback!
i need to be sure it will last a one full year
i am testing 2 360
1 with adding a fiberglass insultation in the mobo gap
2 adding a 12v fan
i will update soon what happans !!
hey tell me what you think ?
P.S. if you could post 3redlight 360s info it helps me a lot
MFG date
S #
howmany hr did you play
think you
Post by: FUVictim on December 08, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
I have the 3 red lights.. error code is 0020... I don't know what to do (was thinking about the Heatgun, but it does not seem to be the error code that the people who used this trick had)..
If I understand correctly, there is something under the motherboard that could cause this over time? Maybe that's not exactly it... Should I try to remove the foil thing and put some real thermal paste (artic silver 5?)? Any other suggestions??
I'm not sure I understand everything though, but since my warranty is over, and by the way M$ is treating the victims of the FU, i'd rather try and fix it myself if that's possible.. so any pointers would really be appreciated!!
Thanks guys!!
So that's pretty much it, you asked for some details :
MFG: 2006-04-05
Estimated play time: 10-15hours a week from the end of june to end of nov. (when it "died").
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 08, 2006, 09:10:00 PM
Hi mygameswirelesscom (and everyone else, I'm new around here!), you seem to be good at fixing 360s!
I have the 3 red lights.. error code is 0020... I don't know what to do (was thinking about the Heatgun, but it does not seem to be the error code that the people who used this trick had)..
If I understand correctly, there is something under the motherboard that could cause this over time? Maybe that's not exactly it... Should I try to remove the foil thing and put some real thermal paste (artic silver 5?)? Any other suggestions??
I'm not sure I understand everything though, but since my warranty is over, and by the way M$ is treating the victims of the FU, i'd rather try and fix it myself if that's possible.. so any pointers would really be appreciated!!
Thanks guys!!
So that's pretty much it, you asked for some details :
MFG: 2006-04-05
Estimated play time: 10-15hours a week from the end of june to end of nov. (when it "died").
hey yes you could try it ~~
just be head up go see (http://myspace.com look for [email protected])
good luck (it will work let me know)
thanks for that info !@@!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 10, 2006, 01:46:00 AM
Ive started getting 3 reds now - what does that mean from OP? where/what is the sync up button?
i think my box might be overheating, it comes on to dash, loads a game then freezes, or i get nothing on screen and 3 reds any ideas?
sorry !! it is just a sync button !
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 11, 2006, 02:25:00 AM
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 12, 2006, 05:23:00 AM
p.s as it appeared for the first two times hot air gun fix had been done not properly(with radiators on CPU & GPU
). The last one was correctly done...I really hope.p.p.s my 360 MFG: 2006-03-15
it was working for 8 months without problems, i bought it on 20 of April.
I've never played it for several hours without brakes, often it stayed not working for 3-4 days...
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 12, 2006, 06:43:00 PM
but did you put arcticsilver5 past?
if you did good !!
then you need to go see this
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired
hey thanks 4 the info~~~
This post has been edited by mygameswirelesscom: Dec 13 2006, 02:45 AM
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 13, 2006, 12:03:00 AM
I've replaced thermal paste on GPU and CPU, but not with arctic silver 5, cuz i live in small russian town and here it's troublesome to get arctic silver paste. But i put our russian thermal paste which is, belive me, not worse than arcticsilver5. Now i want to put a cooler on CPU heatsink, but wich is better to use?
still reciveing many reports from russian users of 360, that their consoles continue to die after hot air gun fix:( not sure why it's happening...maybe all of them done that fix not properly...keep my fingers crossed about my 360. But have a feeling that it won't live long:(
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 13, 2006, 12:53:00 AM
QUOTE(Le Nikolaz @ Dec 13 2006, 07:34 AM)
mygameswirelesscom
I've replaced thermal paste on GPU and CPU, but not with arctic silver 5, cuz i live in small russian town and here it's troublesome to get arctic silver paste. But i put our russian thermal paste which is, belive me, not worse than arcticsilver5. Now i want to put a cooler on CPU heatsink, but wich is better to use?
still reciveing many reports from russian users of 360, that their consoles continue to die after hot air gun fix:( not sure why it's happening...maybe all of them done that fix not properly...keep my fingers crossed about my 360. But have a feeling that it won't live long:(
hey how things going ?
russian thermal paste its ok it will do a job !!
so you are a russian !
and do you live in russia?
what part of small town do you live..
it is very importen to look up what twistedsymphony
has post he is the man that has most info on 3red light ...
and this is what i have read
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=553787
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=553213
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=553863
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=542648
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=511040
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=535941
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=531853
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=528706
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=522113
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=540874
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=467045
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=540874
look it up it will help you in a way too
think and let me know what you think ..
hey hop this help you in a way
good luck !@@!
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 13, 2006, 02:06:00 AM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 13 2006, 04:24 PM)
hey how things going ?
russian thermal paste its ok it will do a job !!
so you are a russian !
and do you live in russia?
what part of small town do you live..
it is very importen to look up what twistedsymphony
has post he is the man that has most info on 3red light ...
and this is what i have read
a lot of links:)
look it up it will help you in a way too
think and let me know what you think ..
hey hop this help you in a way
good luck !@@!
My 360 still working:)
Yes I'm russian:) and live in Russia
I didn't catch your mind about :"what part of small town do you live.."
I live in Far East, my town is situated on the border with China.
Thanks for links...i'll read them soon.
want to ask you about "oven fix" those motherboards which you "cooked" in oven...are they still working?
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 13, 2006, 03:20:00 AM
QUOTE(Le Nikolaz @ Dec 13 2006, 10:13 AM)
My 360 still working:)
Yes I'm russian:) and live in Russia
I didn't catch your mind about :"what part of small town do you live.." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I live in Far East, my town is situated on the border with China.
Thanks for links...i'll read them soon.
want to ask you about "oven fix" those motherboards which you "cooked" in oven...are they still working?
hey (Far East, my town is situated on the border with China)
i have freand in russia ..
i ask becouse it has a lot to do with moste & hummnety
if 3red comse back you may try heat gun one more time longer time not more then 5mins top
however "oven fix " is the last resort and it is not for newbee
Now this got my mind thinking, what if we could heat the board up to the 400-450 degree mark and let the solder flow enough to remake these knackered contacts. My solution to this is to put the complete board into the oven!!, set it up for about 400-450 as the thermostats are not great, remember there for cooking food! COVER anything with plastic in it (All connectors etc, remove board from case (obviously) and the heat sinks. Place on a baking tray (to allow you to remove with out picking up board and cook for about 10mins at that temperature. Then you have 2 choices turn off oven and DON'T move the board or move extremely carefully to cool slowly. I have repaired about 2 out of 3 other boards like this. IT MUST BE STRESSED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL TO PROTECT ALL PLASTIC< IT WILL MELT. Successful on 0110 and 0102 errors so far.
Wife not very happy but hey if it works!!
Let me know how it goes
C
How do you cover the plastic connectors? Do you desolder them and take them off the board?
I used the foil backed fiberglass insultation for the plastic parts. The board that have been repaired are still working 4 weeks and counting!!!
EXTREMELY CAREFUL EXTREMELY CAREFUL EXTREMELY CAREFUL
you may try this too but as last last last last than think thin do it
P.S. it is not just do it
ok good luck ~~ YOUR town maybe call soobonhi? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
This post has been edited by mygameswirelesscom: Dec 13 2006, 11:26 AM
Post by: 6irl6amer6ore on December 13, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
QUOTE(madmackem @ Dec 6 2006, 08:16 PM)
Ive started getting 3 reds now - what does that mean from OP? where/what is the sync up button?
i think my box might be overheating, it comes on to dash, loads a game then freezes, or i get nothing on screen and 3 reds any ideas?
mines doing the same ... since FFXI and Playonline veiwer
I know mines not over-heating, cuz i didn't play too long. I've had my 360 since launch day. I've babied it, and all. Well, I got FFXI in the mail from my mom, and started playing it. I played it for like 2 or 3 days w/ no problems, then the next day (the 4 th day ... I was going to play and it didn't show anything no the t.v. screen. i looked at my 360 and RED LIGHTS, not just one, all 4. WTF?!? well this was morning time so.... I let it sit until the next evening and it did the same thing when i cut it on after sitting for 24 hrs. I uplugged and replugged everything back up ... *like 4 times in total now in total*, i tried it on and off that day , and it finally worked! I got to play FFXI again , then it froze up on me and i had to restart my system, when i started it back up it kept freezing up during the online viewer sign in screen .. during the loading screen. I tried signing in like 5 or 6 times, then it had the red lights of doom again. This was monday... and today is freaking wednesday and it still isn't working. Do you guys think i'll have to call in for a cardboard coffin?? ::sniffles::
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 13, 2006, 07:09:00 PM
QUOTE(6irl6amer6ore @ Dec 13 2006, 06:07 PM)
mines doing the same ... since FFXI and Playonline veiwer
I know mines not over-heating, cuz i didn't play too long. I've had my 360 since launch day. I've babied it, and all. Well, I got FFXI in the mail from my mom, and started playing it. I played it for like 2 or 3 days w/ no problems, then the next day (the 4 th day ... I was going to play and it didn't show anything no the t.v. screen. i looked at my 360 and RED LIGHTS, not just one, all 4. WTF?!? well this was morning time so.... I let it sit until the next evening and it did the same thing when i cut it on after sitting for 24 hrs. I uplugged and replugged everything back up ... *like 4 times in total now in total*, i tried it on and off that day , and it finally worked! I got to play FFXI again , then it froze up on me and i had to restart my system, when i started it back up it kept freezing up during the online viewer sign in screen .. during the loading screen. I tried signing in like 5 or 6 times, then it had the red lights of doom again. This was monday... and today is freaking wednesday and it still isn't working. Do you guys think i'll have to call in for a cardboard coffin?? ::sniffles::
yes yes yes !!!
if you have warrenty yes you must do that do not open !!!! if you do you fuxxed !!!
and if you ask me get the exten your warrenty pay $30 for 1 year $50 2years i think !
if it was me i get 2 years !!
The Customer Service guy said that when I get my fixed(replaced) unit, it comes with a fresh new 90 day warranty. He said that I have 88 days to purchase an extended warranty. I can either purchase a 1yr for $30 or 2yr for $60. He said that I can extend the 1yr to two before it runs out, so I'm opting for the 1yr(probably be a good mod out by then anyway).
I got slightly different information when I called yesterday. My box died on Wednesday with the flashing red lights of death, error code 0102. I've had it for almost four months, but I decided I'd call anyway. Luckily, I'd never registered the console, and didn't tell the tech exactly how long I'd had it ("a couple of months"), so my current warranty lasts until October 19. The tech said when I get my repaired/replacement system back, an additional 30 days is tacked on to the warranty. During that time, I can call back and pick up the 1 year extension for $30, or 2 years for $60. I'm definitely going with the 2 years, since I'm betting on the fact that the replacement (I doubt they'll repair it) will die in another 1-24 months, and I'll have to get another one. Hopefully, by the time it does, MS will have released a hardware revision, and I'll be good to go for the rest of this generation.
This post has been edited by mygameswirelesscom: Dec 14 2006, 03:14 AM
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 13, 2006, 11:21:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 13 2006, 06:51 PM)
hey (Far East, my town is situated on the border with China)
i have freand in russia ..
i ask becouse it has a lot to do with moste & hummnety
if 3red comse back you may try heat gun one more time longer time not more then 5mins top
however "oven fix " is the last resort and it is not for newbee
you may try this too but as last last last last than think thin do it
P.S. it is not just do it
ok good luck ~~ YOUR town maybe call soobonhi?
Don't sure that i'll dare to fix my 360's board in oven, but anyway thanks for info again:)
No, my town isn't soobonhi(generally i haven't heared about such town. I live in Blagoveschensk, it's in the South-East of Russia.
Listen mate, what the longest period of time you know 360 works after hot gun?
I've heared about 6 months! What do you think, can it be true? Also heared about 3 months, but that's not 6 anyway!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 14, 2006, 11:32:00 PM
QUOTE(Le Nikolaz @ Dec 14 2006, 07:28 AM)
Don't sure that i'll dare to fix my 360's board in oven, but anyway thanks for info again:)
No, my town isn't soobonhi(generally i haven't heared about such town. I live in Blagoveschensk, it's in the South-East of Russia.
Listen mate, what the longest period of time you know 360 works after hot gun?
I've heared about 6 months! What do you think, can it be true? Also heared about 3 months, but that's not 6 anyway!
yes it is true !!
they have reports !!
even i have 2 360s that has com back today !! (i have repair befor in weeks)
this is two time they have come back to me !!
so this time i did 5mins with heat gun !!
and i put a pice of card in top of heatsink tower so it give more suckion but no good it head 3red in 5hrs times whan i put dvd and let it run... 3red came back...............
3red light........
so this time i put pice of ______ and give back today !!
i put pice of __ this to give tighten those heatsink there will be a tighter bond between the GPU/CPU and their heatsinks i dont know 100% this will work !!
i did what i thik off at this time .......
i have fex 28~34 with heat gun !!
8 of came back !!
and i repair and send back and in week
2 came back !!
all my repairs are not more then 1or 2 months ! (3 360 i have repair in jun )
i have repair more than 40 xbox360 but with 3red it is 34 of them
in 34 repairs with heat gun repair i did 29..
in 29 repairs i have 5 came back to me
seems to me i need more time .. so they comeback .............
most of them seems ok ( i know i need to give more time so they come back)
i know its that useing heatgun more then 2~3times gives your mobo
a damage if you dont get to fex your 360 with 2 trys with heat gun dont do it no more
becuse you will friy you board !!!!
yes all my repairs are not more then 2months (most of them 3 weeks)
i am a new to fexing 360 ..........i need to time...
so if you think i am worng plz tell me
i wissh i could wright batter english
please excuse my English.
P.S. yes some of my test with 360 with 3redlight repairs are good so far~~
i am testing 1 more ......
so i have 3 360 are in test
if my test coms ok or good i will post so let you know
oney the people who post in hear
i see lots of viewers but they dont want to say ...............
yes i am a newbee repairing 360s
but i know i could repair this i have ____ with me all the time
all the time it works for me dont be a foll
post what happan to your 360 with heat gun !
let us know PLZ...................................................
Post by: 6irl6amer6ore on December 15, 2006, 12:38:00 PM
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 16, 2006, 06:08:00 PM
QUOTE(6irl6amer6ore @ Dec 15 2006, 08:45 PM)
you could try to call ms ..
do not open your 360
tell ms what is going on with your 360
hey think ~~~
they not going to give warranty EZ
you need to try harder !!
think what your going to say ~
good luck !!
p.s. what is your mfg daet?
let us know !!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 17, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
hey how is repairs going ?
i hop thinks are good
i see lot of 3 red light ....
and lot of heat gun repairs ....
i want to say aways call ms frist !!
you do not just try heat gun PLZ............
call ms plz.........
you do have warrenty !!
heat gun is last think you try !!
hey good luck with your repair !!
P.S. hey plz don sand no e-mail for .............
say what you want to say in Forums Plz.........
thank you !@@!
This post has been edited by mygameswirelesscom: Dec 18 2006, 01:34 AM
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 18, 2006, 05:29:00 AM
still keep my fingers crossed.
p.s tray of my drive opens from 6-7th time when 360 is in vertical stand:( wtf!?!?
This post has been edited by Le Nikolaz: Dec 18 2006, 01:30 PM
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 22, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
yes so far so good !!
360 working good !!
3 360 that i am testing is going verygood !!
i hop it stays that way ..........
i have 1 360 that i have repair befor with heatgun is coming back .....
they call so i need to see what cuse this i will let you know soon !!
hey have a nice x-mas~~~~~~~~
be good!
Post by: tiavo on December 25, 2006, 06:02:00 AM
http://forums.xbox.c...4/ShowPost.aspx
Hope that you find it informative, it also makes for good read
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 26, 2006, 04:52:00 PM
QUOTE(tiavo @ Dec 25 2006, 02:09 PM)
Deductive reasoning involving the reasons for the occurence of 3 red lights in xbox 360 systems and why heat gun treatment works but fails eventually after prolonged usage or major update.
http://forums.xbox.c...4/ShowPost.aspx
Hope that you find it informative, it also makes for good read
thank you !
this is good !!
but i think i have batter ways to fex 360s !!!
i need time to test before i post !!!
i will post soon !!
yes 360 with heatgun repairs i have ...
yes they came back so i did ______and put ______and it is good!!
so far so good just need more time to be ...................
so i know my repairs r good in time will tell~
hey be good~~
will update soon
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 28, 2006, 06:20:00 AM
heatgun
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?sho...&st=0\
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 30, 2006, 10:14:00 PM
i have 4 360 that i repair b4
came back this was repair 12-4-06
so i used heat gun one more time with ____and put ___and
will give back 1-2-07 i am runing 360 for 72hr non stop but
i see lots of time 3red comes from playing games not from playing dvdmoves
so i need to test more but i can be playing for all day ..........
i see y but just need to proof time will tell
and i am gating a lots 360s with 3red
i hop my test could proof y we geting lots Error Codes
will post soon how 360s TEST .........
hey good luck
p.s. what kind of heat gun are you using?
1-2-07 will go to job and let you know soon
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on December 31, 2006, 11:51:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 31 2006, 06:21 AM)
hey happy New Years !!
i have 4 360 that i repair b4
came back this was repair 12-4-06
so i used heat gun one more time with ____and put ___and
will give back 1-2-07 i am runing 360 for 72hr non stop but
i see lots of time 3red comes from playing games not from playing dvdmoves
so i need to test more but i can be playing for all day ..........
i see y but just need to proof time will tell
and i am gating a lots 360s with 3red
i hop my test could proof y we geting lots Error Codes
will post soon how 360s TEST .........
hey good luck
p.s. what kind of heat gun are you using?
1-2-07 will go to job and let you know soon
hey need video 4 heat gun!!
http://video.google....6...20fix&hl=en
heatgun
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?sho...&st=0\
good luck!!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 02, 2007, 11:38:00 PM
Just want to point out what I have done wrong!!
I see lots of repairs with heat gun but not much luck with time . (3red comes back)
Ok this is what is most common info you will see in this forums (I did this stapes too) ..
But in this step a lots of think I miss and need caution
1. Completely disassembled it (including both heat sinks)
(Removing heart sank unit lots of time X piece could mass up your mobo if you see
The X piece in center you will see black piece y you putting or disassemble ding even a bit movement will touch that small tiny piece and will damage the mobo if that happens you 360will freeze every 5min to a 10min top playing games yes it will boot to dashboard but will freeze
You must solder the same tiny piece to work 100% some time you dont even know if you mass up the piece see and look hard)
2. Used compressed air to blow dust out of all parts
(This is good but I also cleaned the mobo top to bottom with Q tip and I do very well at cleanings)
3. Removed the existing thermal compound from both heat sinks and both the CPU and GPU
(Most time I think lots people are not thinking at this time it is very important to put thermal compound but how much? and need to dry!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did same and 3red came back
These days I put past and dry the mobo for 2days with my fan on it
Putting rightamont of past and drying parts is very important)
4. Did a modified version of the hot air gun fix - I didn't have a hot air gun, so I used a hair dryer on max heat. Figured at worst this would ensure the CPU and GPU dies were dry for the new thermal compound.
(Used heat gun and time your self dont be so smart (I do 5min top)
I heat up back of mobo first then I do the CPU and GPU need to keep moving)
5. Added new thermal compound to both dies - heavy application. Covered all main chips, plus some extra.
(I dont put much past I let my dry then put a one smaller layer)
6. Reassembled
(Removing heart sank unit lots of time X piece could mass up your mobo if you see
The X piece in center you will see black piece y you putting or disassemble ding even a bit movement will touch that small tiny piece and will damage the mobo if that happens you 360will freeze every 5min to a 10min top playing games yes it will boot to dashboard but will freeze playing games
You must solder the same tiny piece to work 100% some time you dont even know if you mass up the piece see and look hard)
ok hop this help you a bit ~
See what want wrong I made lots of mistake to so it is ok!!
Hey good luck ~~
Post by: Safrole on January 03, 2007, 10:44:00 AM
How does a professional repair a cracked BGA connection? They use a reflow station. The word "reflow" means the solder is melted, and it flows, it "reflows". That video shows that you are not getting it hot enough to reflow. It will fix for a short time by getting very hot, which is all that you are doing.
Put a small piece of solder on top the chip. When the solder changes shape, get it just a little hotter and you're done. This will fix it permanently (or at least as good as the original manufacture), as long as you got the right chip.
Do not put your board in the oven. That is how they were originally made, but the plastic parts were not attached. The heat gun method (with solder pieces to tell the correct temperature) is quite suitable and permanent.
Post by: dj_adamix on January 03, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
QUOTE(Safrole @ Jan 3 2007, 06:15 PM)
Here's your mistake: YOU ARE NOT MELTING THE SOLDER!
How does a professional repair a cracked BGA connection? They use a reflow station. The word "reflow" means the solder is melted, and it flows, it "reflows". That video shows that you are not getting it hot enough to reflow. It will fix for a short time by getting very hot, which is all that you are doing.
Put a small piece of solder on top the chip. When the solder changes shape, get it just a little hotter and you're done. This will fix it permanently (or at least as good as the original manufacture), as long as you got the right chip.
Do not put your board in the oven. That is how they were originally made, but the plastic parts were not attached. The heat gun method (with solder pieces to tell the correct temperature) is quite suitable and permanent.
well remember that the temp under the chip is way smaller than the temp on top of the chip where u put that piece of solder. plus solder used in xbox could be different kind. different melting point etc. so key is to heat it up long and good. good way to check if its hot enough is to use magnifying glass and look at solder balls under the chip. while heating it up look when the balls are gettin shiny. then just heat it up a little bit longer and ure done. but dont move anything cuz the temp is dropping slowly and any small movement of the mobo could just rip off some components.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 03, 2007, 11:17:00 PM
But this is what I think!!
1) Ok I do use a good heat gun!!
2) 3red is coming from 360 is causes by safety luck up
3) 360 solder are Led Free soldering!!
(Do you know what is Led Free soldering is?)
4) So WE ARE NOT MELTING THE SOLDER joint!
5) What we are doing is drying the ______on the gpu and cup!!
6) In the gap mobo and CPU and GPU you will see...
7) Time to time it will bill up a some think call _____!
8) That is y we are getting all the deferent Error Codes
9) if you look
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php? s=8780779e13bb1529917dcbb82a28c2b6&showtopic=539063&st=135
You will see RDC post...
see ( C4R29 = next to it see C4R18 ,C4R16, C4R20, C4R17,C4R14, C4R13, I dont know 100% but I think 0020,0021,0022,0023, Error Codes comes from betoin mobo and Gpu,Cpu gap that bills up ____and cause shot and luck up !!
10) Yes I try matter case fix, and troop pick, 12Vfan, and more .
11) So far my entire test for 360 I have try 4 deferent ways but 2 no good!
(Other 2 are running dame good will post in 3week when test is over)
Yes I am a new bee so I could be wrong .(but I have repair 360 over 70)
And I do thank you for you interest sorry for my pool engish!!
P.S. if yours come back with 3red plz let me know !!!Yes I hop not but if it dose let us know ~~!!
Post by: qaz_ on January 04, 2007, 01:35:00 AM
thanks !
Post by: Safrole on January 04, 2007, 07:25:00 AM
You DO have to melt the solder. Fixing with a hair dryer, or wrapping a towel around the xbox, or using a heat gun without melting the solder all does the same thing.
What is that?
It uses thermal expansion to create a tiny bit of movement. The crack in the BGA connection is microscopic. Just a little heat can "fix" it. Mac Ibooks have a very similar problem. You can push your thumb on the chip and get it to work. It's the same; a little bit of pressure "fixes" a very microscopic break. Some people with 360 problems can push on a chip and fix their problem, too. If you put your thumb on the chip and fix it, well it's easy to see what's going on. When you put a heat gun or hair dryer on there, it seems like something more mysterious has taken place, but each is impermanent.
Some people don't understand this. Their minds begin to come up with other reasons like lead or moisture content could be some reason. Pure voodoo. Don't overanalyze the problem in search of undiscovered truth. This is an old truth which is only new to the gamer scene. Remember Occam's razor. It's a simple crack that has opened up through many thermal cycles. These thermal cycles may have been worse where original manufacturing didn't use enough thermal paste. It MUST BE REMELTED as it was originally MELTED. You must reflow the solder.
Post by: Le Nikolaz on January 04, 2007, 08:43:00 AM
3 red lights again.
So i'm seriously think about what to do next....wait for new revision of 360's hardware or buy a new 360 now?
also, the guy who fixed my console with hot air gun suggested to solder motherboard of my 360 by himself...probably not for free. What'll you say? Whether it is necessary to have deal with?
Post by: Tortuga2112 on January 04, 2007, 10:36:00 AM
I'm sure extra cooling can't hurt anyway, as this thing runs pretty hot.
I'm thinking that when you've been playing for a few hours, it gets so hot that any little jarring of the console will break a connection on the bga. if the temp is kept a bit lower then there is less of a chance that the solder will reach high enough temp to crack. At the least, it'll keep the temperature fluctuations smaller.
less expansion and contraction means less chance to break the solder.
When re installing the board I was so paranoid about flexing it and breaking the connection. holding everything all gingerly
I did notice that flipping the screens on the dashboard is much faster now than before. I read a post a while ago that mentioned this as well. I like it. it would also make sense as far as the graphics on a game being able to keep up now as well and not locking up.
anyone else notice this?
Do you guys think the game being played makes a difference? I think a game like gears of war pushes the gpu harder and creates more heat than playing something like tetris or some other non graphics intensive game. That's just my speculation. anyone agree?
Post by: hiddensphinx on January 04, 2007, 11:26:00 AM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Dec 13 2006, 10:51 AM)
Now this got my mind thinking, what if we could heat the board up to the 400-450 degree mark and let the solder flow enough to remake these knackered contacts. My solution to this is to put the complete board into the oven!!, set it up for about 400-450 as the thermostats are not great, remember there for cooking food!
that sounds like a crazy idea but I guess this is how MS do it when they manufacture these 360s?
So did it work
Post by: Tortuga2112 on January 05, 2007, 12:16:00 AM
I got some foil tape and sealed the gaps around the fan shroud, and put some on the heat sink of the gpu to channel the air flow better .
foil tape
then I put some under the dvd drive to insulate it from the heat, figured it couldn't hurt.
under dvd drive
and here's what it looks like
fan mod
I had thought about having the fan pulling air out of the box to draw heat out , but decided to try blowing the air in instead. I know , you're not supposed to have it blowing in because its going to blow dust into the box.
but I figured it would keep it cooler if it was pumping cool air in and having the rear fans expel the hot air.
(if I see a lot of dust accumulating , I'll just put a cloth filter on it or just vacuum the dust out)
I stuck a thermometer by the back just to get a rough idea if it was making a difference. before the mod, the air coming out the back was hovering around 50-52 C. after I installed the fan , it came down to 46 C.
so it helped a little.
I also noticed that playing gears of war did make it produce more heat than when I played PGR 3. When I was playing gears, that was when it got up to 46 C . as soon as I switched to pgr 3 it didn't get any hotter than 39 C.
I don't know if this fan mod will do much, as I think the console will tolerate much more heat. but I figured any cooling will be better than none and it was pretty much free. I just had to buy the grill $1.75, I had the fan already from a computer.
I think I might put an xbox 1 fan in and see if it brings it down more.the one I'm using is a slim one and I"m sure the xbox one moves more air as the blades are much wider.
as you were saying, Safrole, about the temp fluctuations, that might be what puts it over the edge. so why not try to keep the temp swings to a smaller window.
Post by: Safrole on January 05, 2007, 08:10:00 AM
@mygameswirelesscom: Happy to help. Happy that you will tell others. I wish they would modify the pinned topics first post to include some in-depth principles, and some advice for using solder pieces as temperature indication. This is the place for knowledge and they're just not delivering the complete picture. My crusader points are about all used up.
Post by: Tortuga2112 on January 05, 2007, 10:59:00 AM
temps.
I just wanted to see if the extra fan dropped the temp. and by checking the air temp coming from the back of the console I could definitely see there was a difference.
if anyone has a nyko cooler or some other cooling mod, I'd be interested in hearing if you noticed much difference in the temp after adding the extra fans.
Post by: Safrole on January 05, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
Of course on a side note, the toothpick trick that fixes so many GPU problems might also help prevent a BGA crack from reoccuring. Well I hope anyway. And if there was a borderline temp in the reflow ovens, then my reflow is surely superior. A thin bond of solder should resist expansion cracking much better than a thick, less fully melted one. Just like any glued joint - the less glue and the tighter the joint, the more durable the bond. Again, mostly a hope.
EDIT: Just wanted to add that I've passed one month with my reflow and it's been better than new. The night before last was the first freezup I've had in that whole month, literally. When it was new I would get the occasional freeze, but these days I had almost forgotten about them. That freezeup caught me off guard and I, too, was frozen for a second. At first I thought my major troubles were back, but it was just a normal freeze like the old days. How sad a comment is that? "A normal freeze"...
Post by: rilhouse on January 05, 2007, 07:18:00 PM
What do you guys think?
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 06, 2007, 02:44:00 AM
QUOTE(Le Nikolaz @ Jan 4 2007, 04:14 PM)
3 weeks have passed since final(third) hot gun fix for my 360, and it fucked up again:(
3 red lights again.
So i'm seriously think about what to do next....wait for new revision of 360's hardware or buy a new 360 now?
also, the guy who fixed my console with hot air gun suggested to solder motherboard of my 360 by himself...probably not for free. What'll you say? Whether it is necessary to have deal with?
hey that is su**
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=577062
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 06, 2007, 06:23:00 PM
I get the same graphic errors shown on the modfreakz video (white vertical lines and/or checkerboard pattern).
Strange thing is that i can play live arcade games like doom but when i play anything 360, it will get the above errors with 2 mins. Tried the towel trick didnt work at all, still crashed after 2 mins.
I have a couple of questions, i already replaced the thermal paste with arctic ceramic compound as shown here http://www.thecoolin...products_id/348.
I since found out people said the arctic silver 5 is best. Will this cause a problem or is it still ok to use (just not as good).
I also ordered a heat gun to fix like you guys have. I ordered this model http://www.machinema...asp?p=060815002 is that going to be ok?
The problem i will have is knowing if the solder reflow has worked. Can you visually see anything whilst your doing this to indicate?
Thanks in advance.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 06, 2007, 08:48:00 PM
QUOTE(rilhouse @ Jan 6 2007, 03:25 AM)
I have successfully performed the heat gun fix and I'm wondering if I should have my 360 in the horizontal or vertical position? I figure that verticly it would keep the 360 cooler but on the other hand gravity might be working against the connection between the GPU and mother board.
What do you guys think?
hey
good 4 you hop yours have better luck!!
u ask me i put my 360 in
horizontal and put chop stick under each side
!!i think it helps
with vertical position with hd in top ??? !!!
i dont thing ....
hey good luck!!
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 06, 2007, 09:02:00 PM
QUOTE(FearsomeSNR @ Jan 7 2007, 02:30 AM)
Hi, i have the infamous 0102 error on my xbox which was purchased last march. I think its one of the earlier batches as the DVD drive has a manufacture date of oct 2005 on it.
I get the same graphic errors shown on the modfreakz video (white vertical lines and/or checkerboard pattern).
Strange thing is that i can play live arcade games like doom but when i play anything 360, it will get the above errors with 2 mins. Tried the towel trick didnt work at all, still crashed after 2 mins.
I have a couple of questions, i already replaced the thermal paste with arctic ceramic compound as shown here http://www.thecoolin...products_id/348.
I since found out people said the arctic silver 5 is best. Will this cause a problem or is it still ok to use (just not as good).
I also ordered a heat gun to fix like you guys have. I ordered this model http://www.machinema...asp?p=060815002 is that going to be ok?
The problem i will have is knowing if the solder reflow has worked. Can you visually see anything whilst your doing this to indicate?
Thanks in advance.
hey good luck!!
i used http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
Contains 99.9% pure silver:
Arctic Silver 5
hey dont be chip
Arctic Silver 5 Heat Compound
£4.65 ex
do what you want ~~
good luck
p.s. if you think mods heat gun video shows all how it is i say dont do!!
you need to understand the Full principle then do it !!!
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 07, 2007, 05:47:00 AM
As far as i can see, in its simplest terms is a broken circuit caused by constant expanding/contracting over time ( i had mine 9 months before this started).
The object i beleive is to get the circuit connected again, and if done correctly this should resolve the issue, although due to the poor board design it probably wont last for 4 years or something and needs to be repeated.
I have heard conflicting reports about the heat gun, do you start at the lowest heat setting and then gradually increase to high or the other way around? Can anyone confirm this?
And what time scale does the process take from turning on the heat gun to switching it off (just the heating bit)
Post by: Tortuga2112 on January 07, 2007, 11:11:00 AM
I pre-heated the obard for 5 mins on the low setting , then hit the gpu chip and cpu on the high setting for two mins
i also used the solder on top of the chip technique (as suggested by Safrole)as an indicator of when I was getting close to the right temp.
mine's been ok for the last week (knock wood) , I left it running for the first two days straight. the last few days I've played a few times with some friends and it was on for at least five to six hours each time.
haven't had one graphical error yet. hope it lasts.
Post by: doogle13 on January 07, 2007, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 07, 2007, 09:17:00 PM
I have want to a job see all the 360 mobo with micscop, at time I had a 4 open up so
I look and, a ha I see! Almost (2 or 3) side solder points are not touching the mobo.
This has repair 2 time o ready
Most my heat gun repairs I move fast I try to heat the hold mobo to max
Than I do the cpu and gpu more closed but fast
I have read this from forums with 3~4 try with heat gun repairs people are saying mobo are baning so that got me heating back of mobo ..!!
So now I am thinking .. It looks the corner solder points from gpu are not touching the mobo!! I think when we heat the mobo cpu and gpu are left up...
I see the deferent beetoin other mobo!!
I was going to do a heat gun one more time but I was thinking I did heat gun 2 times
And I know I did put a lots of heat in 2 time I dont think a heat gun will fix this the
Key is to put increased the pressure on the GPU when it gets hot (very hot hot hot)
Heat gun video shows dont touch after heat gun but some say push down the gpu it will help so it got me thinking ..
I have deicide to do a one more heat gun repair
But this time I am going to push down the gpu and cup together after heat gun
But with what, I have cut the mouse pad to the size of gpu, CPU together.
I also put 2/4 wood with t-shit rap and put in bottom of the mobo then after heat gun
I put the mobo in top of 2/4 then put the mouse pad in top of cpu,gpu and I push hard
For a 1min it then let it cool of then do the .
You know the rest so
Yes it works good !! I thank you all who has help me!!
good luck on next repairs try what I did
if your heat gun dont work no more !!
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 08, 2007, 05:49:00 AM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Jan 7 2007, 06:18 PM)
that heat gun should be ok . the one I have only goes up to 450C and it was enough.
I pre-heated the obard for 5 mins on the low setting , then hit the gpu chip and cpu on the high setting for two mins
i also used the solder on top of the chip technique (as suggested by Safrole)as an indicator of when I was getting close to the right temp.
mine's been ok for the last week (knock wood) , I left it running for the first two days straight. the last few days I've played a few times with some friends and it was on for at least five to six hours each time.
haven't had one graphical error yet. hope it lasts.
Thanks for that. My friend had this error, replaced the thermal paste with AS5, still didnt work. He said he put toothpicks under the X clips and did the towel trick and it worked. i tried the towel, while the full case was on and it didnt work.
Has any1 any idea what the longest the heat gun method has worked for on anyones 360 repaired like this?
my issue is definately the same as the modfreakz video because i get those white vertical lines on screen. sometimes a white checkerboard patterm.
Post by: Safrole on January 09, 2007, 08:04:00 AM
@wireless: I like your idea, to touch the component while above the solder temperature. It's dangerous, but it's good. I don't think you need real pressure, just a little contact - and no sideways movement at all, of course. Usually when two bodies of molten solder touch at all, they flow together. But if there is gunky film on the surface, perhaps a reflow from temperature alone may not occur, or would require a much higher temperature. A little tap could help. I don't think constant pressure is necessary, because once you have the two sides flowing together, the solder will continue to cling to each side. Obviously if the board is severly warped then you're just beating a dead horse, so we must assume that the components are still in a salvageable condition.
There are people who do this kind of thing all the time, with a proper rework station. I wish they had taken the lead on this issue in the first place. I bet even among those guys, opinions vary on whether you tap a component or not.
Post by: goodl on January 09, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
low rent, but it works
Post by: qaz_ on January 12, 2007, 06:27:00 PM
i have repair my 360
thanks too you (mygameswirelesscom)
hay have a happy new year ~~
keep up the good work~
Post by: Tortuga2112 on January 13, 2007, 11:20:00 AM
$140 please.thank you
3 red light error fix
too funny , but if it works for you...
til it gets progressively worse and you gotta hit it with a hammer(or as my shop teacher used to call it "the multi-angle swing press").
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 13, 2007, 04:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Jan 13 2007, 07:27 PM)
M$ secret fix for 3RLOD . here's a microsoft technician fixing your 360 when you send it in for repairs
$140 please.thank you
3 red light error fix
too funny , but if it works for you...
til it gets progressively worse and you gotta hit it with a hammer(or as my shop teacher used to call it "the multi-angle swing press").
hey I love it !!!
lol
Post by: nnndoh on January 14, 2007, 05:52:00 AM
after i did the system update and a lost planet update i get a error 79.
and i know that this will be error 102
i have an lcd thing where i can see how the temperature are on the gpu and the cpu.
but thats oke, not to hot.
think i will try the toothpick solution tonight
edit: 0022 GPU Error / GPU Overheating... the first time i get this one
but my xcm 360 high speed air cooler display's that the gpu is at 39 degrees celsius..if i get 52 degrees celsius it gives an error.edit 2 : 5 minutes later : error code 0103, not yet known..think he's dying
thank you microsoft for the update
Post by: shenmuemaster on January 14, 2007, 10:23:00 AM
I have been havin a few problems with my 360 the last few days with the 3 red lights. When it first occurred, the console wud directly boot to the 3 red lights. I made many attempts and the same 3 red lights. However, I read a few places about some tricks that could help the 360 run.
What i did was let the 360 run on the 3 red lights for about 15mins and rebooted it and voila it loaded up the dash. However when i loaded a game up (Pro Evo 6) it froze after 5 mins (which was expected). I rebooted and then the 3 lights returned. I reattempted and the 3 lights remained to flash. So i reattempted leavin it for 15 mins, and reboot. This time it didnt work and the 3red lights appeared. So i put a towel and covered the 360 at the back, so inaffect the console wud heat up as i left the 360 on the redlights for 15 mins. After 15 mins and rebooted, the console worked. I popped in GOW and played it for about 10 mins be4 the checkered screen appeared. I rebooted, but continued to work and booted up the dash. So i rebooted GOW and froze after a minute. Rebooted and the 360 boots up but then freezes on the loadup screen (360 logo). Everytime i turn on the 360 it boots up, but to freeze in the 360 logo sequence.
So the 3 red lights have gone, but the 360 freezes be4 it loads up.
Does anyone think that the heatgun fix could fix my 360?
Update: Leavin the 360 to cool for a bit the red lights are back!
Post by: shenmuemaster on January 14, 2007, 03:49:00 PM
Im guessin it wont work if i leave it for a while. But uptill now things are lookin better.
Maybe the heatgun method might sort the problem for good...
Post by: Safrole on January 15, 2007, 07:49:00 AM
Put pieces of solder on top of each chip so you have an idea when you're close to the melting point of solder. Go a little farther after the solder on top melts, since you have to melt what is on the bottom side of the chips. If there is too much air blowing from your heatgun, it may be possible to restrict its airflow by putting some tape over the intake.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 21, 2007, 05:36:00 PM
!!Hitachi Open Tray Fix
http://forums.xbox-s...n Tray Hitachi
Sticky Dvd Drive Samsung
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=575682
hitachi laser replacement tutorial, also contains the solder blob point
http://edpsystemssup...63_Install.html
samsung laser replacement tutorial
http://edpsystemssup...67_Install.html
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=552795
Heatsink X-clamps Removal
Heat gun
http://www.myspace.com/nymichael424
Tutorial On How To Apply Here
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=467045
tooth pick
http://forums.xbox-s...o...4726&st=300
good luck on your repair
!!P.S. if you dont have time used your local game store thank you !!
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 22, 2007, 12:23:00 PM
Will try the heat gun fix when i get another T8 torx (last one snapped) and keep you updated.
From my experience tootpick method = 2 weeks.
Heat Gun = ?
Post by: Darth Darius on January 22, 2007, 01:13:00 PM
QUOTE(FearsomeSNR @ Jan 22 2007, 01:30 PM)
A Quick update. I used the toothpick method 2 weeks ago when i was waiting for my heatgun. Has worked fine until this weekend and i now start to get the freezing again after 20mins of play. Proving i guess, that this is a temporary fix.
Will try the heat gun fix when i get another T8 torx (last one snapped) and keep you updated.
From my experience tootpick method = 2 weeks.
Heat Gun = ?
Try this, its like the tootpick , but seems to work much longer.
Well , you do the heat gun trick first, as you Know , i did it with the two heatsinks off, then you cut the alumminium can like the picture in the form of the two chips under the heatsinks, (just the plastic form), in the next pic , http://i140.photobuc...r7/Modbo360.jpg, watch for no put the piece in the small capacitors , just in the plastic like the pic, the pieces must be 2 for each chip to do the job done, put some artic silver in the chips, in the first piece to do a "sandwich" between pieces , this help for no moves when you installing the heatsinks
like this http://i140.photobuc...gengar7/Fix.jpg
when you put the heatsinks and put the screws the heatsink do pressure over the chip and prevent the fatal error.
Cheers
Post by: bozac2007 on January 22, 2007, 04:24:00 PM
Wanted to post a fix that seems to work for me and I have had 90% of the systems with the three red light problem fixed with no problem
I have noticed that the hot air fix seems to work for a bit but then after awhile its back to the drawing board .
so what I have been doing is removeing the GPU heatsink
and take the main board out of the case
I focus on the gpu and south bridge chip, I use the heat gun to heat up the south chip first bout 15 seconds on low heat in round motion I apply steady pressure on the outside of the chip (not the center)now here is where it gets tricky ..apply more heat from the heat gun and focus on the chip itself you will see the outside of the chip start to flex (NOT MELTING !)
remove the heat gun and hold steady pressure on the outside of the chip for about 10 min I use a fan to cool it a little faster
after its cool reassemble it and try it 3/4 of the time it will work flawless if not back to the drawing board and this time repeat the steps for the GPU
IF you have any questions you can e-mail me at [email protected]
If you find this works for you post this on other sites
so people can save their 360s !!!
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 23, 2007, 04:21:00 AM
There are conflicting methods about this on the web. Obviously at the end of the day, regardless, if the solder is reflowed it doesnt matter, i know.
But i would prefer someones opinion on whats the best way to go before i attempt this.
Its a pain in the arse though that all these methods, even a proper heat gun reflow are temporary.
I dont think there is such a thing as a permanent fix with these things.
P.S Apologies for my ignorance but can someone post a pic of the southbridge to clarify.
Post by: Safrole on January 23, 2007, 12:32:00 PM
So you can melt other components off the board on accident. Or you can fail to melt the solder altogether, because you can't see it happening. (That's much more common.) That's why I strongly advocate the pieces of solder on top of the chips. You still have to go beyond their melting point, but at least you've got SOMETHING to tell you when you're close. Counting to two minutes while waving your gun around is nothing but a shot in the dark. The heat delivery from the gun varies widely with the distance to the target. The only way to get reproducible results with simple timing is if we're all using the same wattage (and airflow) of gun at the same distance from the chip. Obviously I believe the vast majority of XS heat gunners are following a recipe for random results. (you like alliteration? I like alliteration.)
I also believe that you could tape over some of the intake vents on your heat gun and restrict the airflow without melting the gun. Proceed at your own risk, heh heh. I'll bet the lower setting comes out hotter and slower, just like a professional rework station.
EDIT: forgot the citation, not that it's really that pertinent to our solution.
http://www.efdsolder...lder_Reflow.pdf
2ndEDIT: Check out this guy's low-cost solution. This is NOT what we need, but it's interesting:http://www.sparkfun....ow-hotplate.htm
And just to save you thinking of the correct terms:
http://www.google.co... station reflow
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 23, 2007, 06:21:00 PM
Thanks for your input safrole. I will invest in some solder to gauge the temp.
Post by: Safrole on January 24, 2007, 09:10:00 AM
After reading some of the reballing discussions, I can believe that simple heating may (in some cases) never effect a proper reflow. Obviously mine did not, as it played perfectly for about 50 days and then crapped out. Whatever was wrong, it was not reflowed properly. BTW I play it probably 4 days a week, averaging 2 hrs a day, so my problem was masked for about 50 hrs of uptime and 25 thermal cycles.
You can bet I'm going to give it another shot, with a couple changes. This time I'll restrict the airflow on the heat gun, and effect a slight "touch" or something while the solder is molten (as suggested by Wireless). Alternatively, I may rig up a small weight to press on the gpu during reflow. This would be something similar in principle to a phonograph needle. A long arm bears the weight, but only a pinpoint presses on the gpu, to keep the thermal disturbance down. Probably I'll bend some brass rod into an "L" shape and hang a steel nut on the horizontal part, then still give it the slightest tapping while hot. My concern is that the open surface of the crack is oxidized and won't want to reflow without a little persuasion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm once bitten twice shy.
I'll give that another 50 days. If it dies again, I'll check the reballers' luck and maybe go that way, the BIG fix.
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 24, 2007, 03:42:00 PM
I played 4 hours + on doom in the dash last night without issue. Loaded the Midway demo and it crashed within 10 minutes. Microsofts subliminal cut of a checkerboard is getting tiresome now.
Right now, i'm happy with a temporary fix (50 days will be fine) Once i have ran the heat gun, i'll keep you informed how long its lasting.
Post by: qaz_ on February 07, 2007, 06:53:00 PM
my 360 works good !
60days has pass
thanks 2 u
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on February 08, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
all my repairs are going too good !
thaNKS TOO ALL IN THIS FORUMS
I HAVE PUT 4 360 IN TEST
2 NO GOOD
2 R GOOD RUNING SO GOOD !!
I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW FRIEST Safrole
I WANT TO SHOW SOME PIC WHAT I AM DOING TO REPAIR ALL 360
GIVE ME A E-MAIL
Post by: futureunknown on February 10, 2007, 01:24:00 AM
anyways. this is the ulgy way, but take your GPU and CPU sinks off, carefully clean the chips, then use alc to get them real clean, Get yourself a good powerful heat gun, one that has a max heat of 840 is excellent and just right.
You DO NOT need to heat the whole board, when you start, have the board between to boxes of the same height so the board is level. start the gun on it's lowest setting working a circular motion around ONLY the GPU, do this with the gun 4-5 inches away. Start "warming" the entire board up so it doesnt bow, go ontop and underneath.
Once your board is warm, one the lowest setting focus only on the GPU top and bottom with same times. have a piece of soldier on the gpu core "dont worry it wont harm it" this is so when the soldier starts to melt, you know that you've almost reached the proper temp.
Work the GPU top and bottom for 3 minutes to warm it on its lowest setting "my mastercraft has low and high with low being 430F and high being 835F. once you have done that, flip it onto high, this time keep your gun 5 inches from the GPU continuing in the circle motion and occasionally give the whole board just a "quick" pass over to keep things warm so the board doesnt spring/ bow on you.
When I started to see the flux coming out of my solder piece on the GPU "lil piece I placed for guidance" I continued heating top and bottom for another 90 seconds.
In total I heated from start to finish, roughly 7-8 minutes.
DO NOT!!!!!!!! move the board for 30 minutes. Someone said they were impatiend and moved the board after 15 minutes... have patience!!! this thing cost us some good money, so why screw it up being inpatient!!!!
Ok, after 30 minutes, you can pick up the piece of soldier off of the GPU "no worries, wont stick to it" make sure your core die's are all very clean, then apply your thermal paste.
I also used the toothpick shim's as well, there was a fair amount of play in mine!
I also installed an 80MM fan on the GPU heatsink... people.. this is the FIX, I am telling you!
If you just do the heat gun fix, put it back together, I can assure you that your box will be 3 Red ROL with in 1-4 weeks.
Problem is, the new 1080p update microsoft made us do, fried alot of boxes really fast because the solder used is led free soldier "outlawed in the usa for childrens products" so the extra heat the GPU gives off due to this update was the iceing on the cake.
Now you may say, well.. I have a newer 360, I got the update in November, and mine is still good.. Dont even go there, I can promise you that your box WILL be 3 red ROL in due time... everyone's will until this issue is address "new 360 coming out in aprilish with 120gig HD an HDMI"
anyways, I am no pro, but I have done a good 30 hours straight of hard core reading before I did this myself.
I am fixed, and my GPU heatsink is running pretty cool "just a little warm to the touch playing Graw2 or F.e.a.r.
Want to know the BEST part of this boy's? this was my brothers 360 prem bundle he bought, and he was so pissed that he was a dummy and broke the seal when microsoft wanted 170 to repair it. now that he just found out he could have gotten it done for free just recently...I said well what do you want for it? I wouldnt mind trying to fix it.... Got the wireless controller, power brick, HDD!!!!!! and unit all for $30 bucks
can you say im the happiest guy in the world? hell yes..Now..
I followed this one fellows method, but I used a larger fan the him. I started off with a cpu fan, but the heatsink was still getting hot, shut if off after 5 minutes in two games and my buddy hooked me up with a nice 80mm, which I might add.. fits the GPU heat sink PEFECTLY, only thing is you can only put two screws in.. this isnt a problem and it sits, and runs fine. I have mine blowing down.
I also sealed all the little gaps on the exhaust port with elec tape.
Now the only downfall to this method is that you cant put your dvd drive back in.
So here's the moral of the story, you can do the heat gun, put it back together and be back to square one in a 1-4 weeks time, or even worse, toast it.... or you can stop reading all these peoples ways of doing it and do it my way and have it look half assed for the time being "thinking on putting it in a PC case down the road" and have it last.
The ONLY major hardware fault issue is "THE GPU" nothing else, stop risking on screwing your boards up heating every damn chip up. Folks, it's only the GPU at fault here.
If anyone is too scared to do this, and lives in Canada, I'd be happy to it for you for a good price.
PS been into computers my whole life so I am not no teenager trying to talk smack here. The top priority is to get the gpu to stay as cool on that heatsink as you can so the solder balls dont screw up.
and stock in the case with the dvd drive, with the dvd drive in, there is only "1/8th" of an inch gap between the heatsink and floor of the dvd drive...
Microsoft... you built a damn reliable Xbox 1... im ashamed of you people with the 360 in rushing it so fast to overlook these things... or maybe it was a scam to make them millions on just the money some poor suckers pay for repairing them.
Eather way, with the 360 and Vista and Bill Gates retiring soon.... Thing's are looking dire indeed for Microsnuff.
Post by: FearsomeSNR on February 10, 2007, 05:50:00 AM
Enough of my rant. Quick update on my 0102 issue, did the toothpick twice and on average it will last about 2 weeks.
On thursday i ran the heat gun on my mobo for approx 5=6 mins starting off on low heat then high, focusing on the GPU. I'll use this post as a reminder of how long this may last.
http://www.blackcats.../IMAGE00106.jpg
@safrole : tried putting solder on a chip to test temp but the heatgun will blow it about, not sure i really want to cover the intakes.
Post by: futureunknown on February 10, 2007, 01:24:00 PM
QUOTE(FearsomeSNR @ Feb 10 2007, 01:57 PM)
I couldnt agree with you more. The problem is always the GPU but people keep talking about over heating and get a 12v fan etc etc...why? Drives me insane, forget about the bloody CPU, you could probably dip that thing in tar and it would still work, it is the GPU, hence the graphical errors.
Enough of my rant. Quick update on my 0102 issue, did the toothpick twice and on average it will last about 2 weeks.
On thursday i ran the heat gun on my mobo for approx 5=6 mins starting off on low heat then high, focusing on the GPU. I'll use this post as a reminder of how long this may last.
http://www.blackcats.../IMAGE00106.jpg
@safrole : tried putting solder on a chip to test temp but the heatgun will blow it about, not sure i really want to cover the intakes.
The 12v fan is on the GPU heatsink, not the CPU. I couldn't care less about the CPU's temp as this isnt the probem we're all having here.. it is the GPU at fault, getting too hot and screwing up the soldier contacts.
I am going to play around with it some more, maybe switch the fan around so it is sucking instead of blowing on the chip... although I think that may be a worse idea. None the less. The GPU is running much cooler with my fan mod!
any input from others doing this would be great to hear
Post by: futureunknown on February 10, 2007, 10:52:00 PM
I shall keep you posted.
Post by: FearsomeSNR on February 10, 2007, 11:52:00 PM
i'll let you know how it goes.
Post by: nnndoh on February 11, 2007, 02:48:00 AM
i hope the v2 version will be out soon, i'm a bit affraid to buy a new v1 one to get the same problems after updates.
( bought it on dec 2nd 2005, first time it crashed after november update 2006, 2nd crash in december, official dead on januari 2007 after update.)
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on February 11, 2007, 06:52:00 AM
if not try !!
it will work 4 you 50/50
if yes (you did used tooth pick)
than remove your x pice put new past (gpu/cpu hey don't put to much!!)
now you want to band the X a litter bet so it could be titer !!
(i used pice of rubber pice in center of X so it gives more.....
yes 2~3 360 that i have repair with tooth pick came back with 3 red ...
i see the gpu and mobo in the gap i see it baend
yes i see Y !!
i look and look saw the gap of gpu all 4 coner is tuching !!
but from the senter ther are 2 sorder point is not toching !!
i see y puting tooth pick to much presser will baend the gpu (looks banana)
so that time i cut my sleeper (sander) pice
and put in senter of X by the black pice hoping it gives more presser in all gpu
yes it works !!
hey good luck !
p.s. i know my engish is bad sorry !!
Post by: nnndoh on February 11, 2007, 12:18:00 PM
i'm done with it , let someone chiped my nintendo wii today and i will go play with that till i have enough money to buy a new xbox
Post by: gordita37 on February 11, 2007, 12:30:00 PM
QUOTE(mygameswirelesscom @ Feb 11 2007, 05:27 AM)
this is one of the my way of putind 195LB in gpu/cpu !!
repairing 360 with heat gun i do all day....
pepole ask me how do i put presser in to gpu cpu ...
heat gun yes whan it is hot than i stap on it 4 ~ 5 min
Hi, im sorry but ive been trying to read your post for about 5 minutes. So what your saying is that you step on the gpu/cpu for 4-5 minutes when its hot?
Post by: futureunknown on February 11, 2007, 03:40:00 PM
Warning!!!!!!
Don't do this.
Sir, I know you have claimed to worked on many 360's and your english is so bad at times that I have a hard time understanding what your trying to say. But don't do this.
If you use the heat gun properly, THEN shim it and add a cooling fan ontop of the GPU, your good to go.
No offense to you sir.
But don't listen to some of these peoples stupid ways of doing things. Your just going to fry your board.
Let's put it this way.
If you want your 360 to look back to original and pretty, your box will screw up in short notice.
If you dont care and have broke your warrently seal, and dont really care about looks, then do it my way. It is the ONLY way your going to have your 360 last like a normal xbox 1. THE GPU GETS TO HOT FOLKS! need cooling and to have the heatsink fit tighter!
Post by: Tortuga2112 on February 11, 2007, 04:31:00 PM
QUOTE(futureunknown @ Feb 11 2007, 11:47 PM)
DO NOT touch the GPU when it is hot and cooling, one slight movement from your fault will result in the contacts going out of place.
Warning!!!!!!
Don't do this.
Sir, I know you have claimed to worked on many 360's and your english is so bad at times that I have a hard time understanding what your trying to say. But don't do this.
If you use the heat gun properly, THEN shim it and add a cooling fan ontop of the GPU, your good to go.
No offense to you sir.
But don't listen to some of these peoples stupid ways of doing things. Your just going to fry your board.
Let's put it this way.
If you want your 360 to look back to original and pretty, your box will screw up in short notice.
If you dont care and have broke your warrently seal, and dont really care about looks, then do it my way. It is the ONLY way your going to have your 360 last like a normal xbox 1. THE GPU GETS TO HOT FOLKS! need cooling and to have the heatsink fit tighter!
buddy,
I don't really think you should knock his methods. you don't like it, don't do it. but to call it a stupid way of doing things is not right.
and his post clearly states that english isn't his first language so cut the guy some slack. I'm sure a lot of others on the board appreciate mygamewireless' posts.
I, for one appreciate the help he offered me when I first encountered this problem.
frankly , I don't like your solution because its got to have the box sitting there in pieces. but that's just my opinion.
by the way, how many 360's have you repaired? how long running is the longest running one?
also, there seems to be differing opinions on what the actual problem is. Some guys here think its the CPU and not the GPU.
Post by: jasonthegreat on February 12, 2007, 08:21:00 AM
Post by: futureunknown on February 13, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Feb 12 2007, 12:38 AM)
buddy,
I don't really think you should knock his methods. you don't like it, don't do it. but to call it a stupid way of doing things is not right.
and his post clearly states that english isn't his first language so cut the guy some slack. I'm sure a lot of others on the board appreciate mygamewireless' posts.
I, for one appreciate the help he offered me when I first encountered this problem.
frankly , I don't like your solution because its got to have the box sitting there in pieces. but that's just my opinion.
by the way, how many 360's have you repaired? how long running is the longest running one?
also, there seems to be differing opinions on what the actual problem is. Some guys here think its the CPU and not the GPU.
I m sorry. I never ment to come across as sounding like a mr know it all. But I have been into computers basically my entire life, im nearly 28 now. What I tried telling you or anyone else that might be interested is that apply pressure to anything that has molten soldier being used as a contact point... any and I mean any slight shift on the persons fault means that the contacts are going to go out of place.
You simply don't need any pressure on the GPU. and if you don't like my method then thats fine by me, but I know my method is still going to be running 6 months down the road... yes everything is together on my 360 minus the top. I also attached a 70mm fan blowing into the CPU heatsink N into the duct work to be drawn out quicker. This has mad the CPU run very nice and cool.
I am happy to also report the GPU is nice and cool. playing graw2 for 3 hours straight getting up to feel the heatsink evey 10 or so minutes proved to put a smile on my face.
The 360 isnt going to be in this physical appearance for long. I am going to design a cool box for it OR an idea I am throwing around but havent gotten around to making measurements yet, is trying to mod it into an xbox 1 case lolz.
been up solid for 3 days with off and on cooling intervals to test expansion. oh, I also shimmed it as well.
I've made similar repairs to pc agp video cards in the past. I know this method works great. But please people, dont put pressure on your GPU while its 800F, your just asking for trouble.
If you think my method sounds ulgy, who cares? do you want your box to keep running? or would you like to take it all apart again hoping that this time you dond phuck something up internally in the GPU core?
Do this method, then have the fun thoughts in your head of making it look purdy my making yet another modification.... yes.... microsnuff made a boo boo this time... a major one.. but we can fix it if you do it properly!
Should make a thread on case mods with peoples projects w pics!
Post by: pimpmaul69 on February 13, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
Post by: futureunknown on February 14, 2007, 12:56:00 AM
QUOTE(pimpmaul69 @ Feb 14 2007, 06:13 AM)
hmm no offense to the guy above me but i dont think there is very many people on here to repair as many systems as me and mygameswireless.com and i have told people to put the heatsinks back on while it is still hot (5-10 minutes after heating) wich has the same effect... i personally disagree with the foil cause i find not using it to work better but we are both successful.. and i personally have a 100% success rate..not trying to brag just stating a fact that the method of doing it while it is hot and not letting it sit overnight like some do seems to be more affective... and i have never once added a single modification to a system nor had to to have to make it work.. and his english isnt that hard to read
I don't know if you refering to me or not, but I left my mobo cool for 30-35 minutes, then apply my thermal paste, by then it's been cooling for 40-45 minutes. It wont get any colder by that point in time.
If you fan the board properly before focusing on the GPU top & bottom, you wont warp or make the board bow in and out due to different temps at different parts of the board.
The foil is a waste of your time. There is no need, just dont have your gun on the highest setting sitting idle 1 inch off of a plastic piece
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on February 14, 2007, 08:02:00 AM
I've probably put a good 90 day (169pg) of reading into doing all of this before
I plunged into it myself
can you tell us how long your 360 was repair?
and how many 360's have you repaired? how long running is the longest running one?
can you tell us .....
Post by: pimpmaul69 on February 14, 2007, 10:59:00 AM
QUOTE(futureunknown @ Feb 14 2007, 09:17 AM)
Hey bud.
I can understand you ok for the most part
I've probably put a good 40 hours of reading into doing all of this before I plunged into it myself.
You see, from what I gathered of the results you were getting from the one's you were repairing for people get returned to you in 1 week- 6 weeks time correct?
You see, I think that if you just do the heat gun methold and put some better thermal paste on, and put everything back together and keep it stock. With that you have the major design flaw your overlooking that microsnuff made "cooling and circulation" relative to two very powerful processing engines.
Thing is, Microsnuff wanted to get out as many 360's to the general public as they could before the launch of the PS3. So with that said, they overlooked this big time by not putting enough testing into it.
In a nutshell.. doing the heatgun method and putting it back together will have the soldier contacts bottom center and outter section of the GPU start to get weak again. This is due to the contacts heating up and cooling off "by shutting it off" with each power/play cycle. Ok I think you get what I mean there
Now... I am not claiming to be a professional by any standards. But it is to my understanding with Microsnuffs major design flaw that us culprits are presented with.. we need to do something about it "if a last resort and no warrenty" is to take it apart, make sure contact is tight with heatsink/GPU and that the remelting is done right and most importantly...heatsink cooled by fan.
I think this is the only true long lasting method boys and girls. Sure putting it back together after doing a good remelting job will work, you will be pleased and play it with a smile... but soon... like for some of you that bought a 360, and two days later got the red ROL.. it will happen again in due time because the chip got too hot and phucked up those little itty bitty solder beads under the GPU
Good luck peoplez
PS it sure runs alot more snappy and game play seems to be better when things are running cooler.. well duh, even anyone into computer's and gaming would know that result
mygameswireless.com never said all his repairs come back.. and second his method of stepping cant cause the chip to shift because of the way he designed his device..if you look at it and use simple logic you will see that
QUOTE(futureunknown @ Feb 14 2007, 09:03 AM)
I don't know if you refering to me or not, but I left my mobo cool for 30-35 minutes, then apply my thermal paste, by then it's been cooling for 40-45 minutes. It wont get any colder by that point in time.
If you fan the board properly before focusing on the GPU top & bottom, you wont warp or make the board bow in and out due to different temps at different parts of the board.
The foil is a waste of your time. There is no need, just dont have your gun on the highest setting sitting idle 1 inch off of a plastic piece
yes i was talking to you... what we both are saying is to apply the pressure while it is still hot and not letting it cool all the way down.. never have needed any cooling and alot of my error 102/0020 repairs have been over a year now with no returns.. but cooling it is good so if it works for you go ahead... i just dont charge enough to go through all that trouble.. if i had problems then i could see changing my methods
Post by: pimpmaul69 on February 14, 2007, 10:12:00 PM
Post by: futureunknown on February 15, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
too each their own I guess, although I dont think applying pressure after 5 minutes is going to do anything. Do you know how fast soldier hardens?
I think maybe now the problem most are having, is their not doing it right, not getting the chip hot enough. I might try putting mine all back together with no cooling and see if it lasts... or sell it, I dont know yet. From everything I read on the net, I was led to believe the issue was the GPU heatsink not cooling properly with the dvd drive just 1/8th an inch above the gpu heatsink. But you say you have reset the gpu's and put em all back together an they've last over 6 months still... so maybe ill stick it back together. I know the way I have it set up now is alot more healthier for the system what ever way you want to look at it, and know it will last for years the way I have it set up......its just that hellish heat inside is what scares me.
Post by: Tortuga2112 on February 15, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
if you'd already done a bunch and they've lasted more than a year then ok.
but you said your longest running one is 6 months. how many hours a week on average does that particular xbox get used?
I think that's how we should be rating the 'fixes' , hours of usage.
that will give everyone doing this a better indication of which method lasts longest.
for pimpmaul and mygamewireless, do you guys keep track of the serial numbers and the mfg dates?
I think it would be good to know , maybe this way we'll know which consoles are at risk of developing the
3rlod.
I guess when the next gen 360's with the cooler cpu come out , that will be the major dif.
right now as far as we know its completely random. but if we could determine the latest dates of the majority of the affected consoles , at least we'd have an idea of which ones to try to avoid.
anyone have a really recent one that's still been hit by this prob?
the latest I've seen is one that was mfg date apr 06.
If we still see this happening to consoles manufactured into mid 07, then we'll know MS isn't doing jack shit to address the problem.
Oh , I forgot , according to them there isn't a problem.
Post by: futureunknown on February 15, 2007, 04:20:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Feb 16 2007, 12:14 AM)
that's a pretty bold statement to say that you know it'll last for years.
if you'd already done a bunch and they've lasted more than a year then ok.
but you said your longest running one is 6 months. how many hours a week on average does that particular xbox get used?
I think that's how we should be rating the 'fixes' , hours of usage.
that will give everyone doing this a better indication of which method lasts longest.
for pimpmaul and mygamewireless, do you guys keep track of the serial numbers and the mfg dates?
I think it would be good to know , maybe this way we'll know which consoles are at risk of developing the
3rlod.
I guess when the next gen 360's with the cooler cpu come out , that will be the major dif.
right now as far as we know its completely random. but if we could determine the latest dates of the majority of the affected consoles , at least we'd have an idea of which ones to try to avoid.
anyone have a really recent one that's still been hit by this prob?
the latest I've seen is one that was mfg date apr 06.
If we still see this happening to consoles manufactured into mid 07, then we'll know MS isn't doing jack shit to address the problem.
Oh , I forgot , according to them there isn't a problem.
Post by: Tortuga2112 on February 16, 2007, 12:21:00 AM
track of how many hours of use though .
I would estimate maybe about 40-50 hours of gaming. its on round 2 right now.
I've done about 4 or 5 since then for some friends. can't really say much about those yet though , as they haven't had that many hours of actual play time.
the first one has an extra 70mm fan in front of the cpu. it did keep it cooler , but it still failed.
the 2 others I did with 60mm fans are still running with no probs.
I've done a couple with 40mm fans strapped to the cpu heatsink. but I've only tested those for a couple of hrs. I will be giving them back to their owners for more usage when I get home.
i'm out of town right now , but when I get home on saturday I'll post more details and some temp readings i've taken.
I would be quite satisfied to get a year's worth of use from them before heat gunning again. but we'll just have to see. right now, I'm just glad that I can get them going again with the heatgun. anything's better than that flashing evil eye.
I've seen a few other fan mods that I'm going to try. I too, believe that keeping 'em as cool as possible can't hurt. how MUCH it actually helps is yet to be determined.
The next one I do , I'm going to try to put pressure on the chip somehow. haven't yet decided which method to use to do this.
Post by: futureunknown on February 16, 2007, 12:50:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Feb 16 2007, 08:28 AM)
the very first one I did was on jan 1st/07. so I'm pretty new to this also. lasted for just over a month, I wasn't really keeping
track of how many hours of use though .
I would estimate maybe about 40-50 hours of gaming. its on round 2 right now.
I've done about 4 or 5 since then for some friends. can't really say much about those yet though , as they haven't had that many hours of actual play time.
the first one has an extra 70mm fan in front of the cpu. it did keep it cooler , but it still failed.
the 2 others I did with 60mm fans are still running with no probs.
I've done a couple with 40mm fans strapped to the cpu heatsink. but I've only tested those for a couple of hrs. I will be giving them back to their owners for more usage when I get home.
i'm out of town right now , but when I get home on saturday I'll post more details and some temp readings i've taken.
I would be quite satisfied to get a year's worth of use from them before heat gunning again. but we'll just have to see. right now, I'm just glad that I can get them going again with the heatgun. anything's better than that flashing evil eye.
I've seen a few other fan mods that I'm going to try. I too, believe that keeping 'em as cool as possible can't hurt. how MUCH it actually helps is yet to be determined.
The next one I do , I'm going to try to put pressure on the chip somehow. haven't yet decided which method to use to do this.
Oh yes.
I forgot to note that I have the 80mm fan on the GPU blowing down and the 60mm on the CPU blowing in. By doing this, it's helping push that hot air through that vent for the 80's to suck it out faster/cool the alum/copper better.
If you've been into computers and overclocking the snot out of em.. This just has to make sense.. but to repair on a customer level.. I understand why a couple of you wont do it this way.. gotta give it back to the customer looking the same as it came to you. Let me say I hear where the couple of you are coming from.
But on a personal basis owning one. I think eather doing it my way, then making it look a little neater, or putting it in a custom case is good, or if you have the money to burn, you can water cool it and slap it back together.
Post by: futureunknown on February 16, 2007, 06:03:00 PM
QUOTE(futureunknown @ Feb 16 2007, 12:27 AM)
The two that I did have the tops off with a fan on the GPU.. as for mine, its a jan 06 model. Since I fixed it on feb 10th, ive played it a good 7 hours a day.
My main question to you is, in your repairs, how long have they lasted stock with the top on and no additional cooling?
I some how still seem to think its a heat related issue which is breaking the contacts.. or maybe just maybe... it was a error on microsnuffs end when running them through the oven :S
correction. my 360 was manufactured 3/20/06
Post by: Tortuga2112 on February 16, 2007, 06:48:00 PM
if you got cash to burn and wanted to do it as a preventive measure, then ok.
but I wouldn't watercool a box that's already showing signs of future problems.
at least fans are cheap.
as far as leaving the cover off , that's not the way I want to have mine , as I sometimes bring it to friends houses.
I still want it to be portable.
Post by: futureunknown on February 18, 2007, 11:30:00 AM
But how to you propose having it all together with fans in side? You cant put one on the GPU and close it up... Well maybe if some manufacture out there makes an 80mm fan skinnny enough.
You got me there. The fan on the CPU isn't really helping matters, It is throwing the heat out the vent much quicker and making the CPU run a bit cooler. But the CPU isn't the problem.. that fan can be left inside, but the GPU..... that's the issue.
Post by: bojngles on February 18, 2007, 03:46:00 PM
Heat the chips with the highest temperature of the heatgun (mine goes to about 1000F, lower temperature fix didnt seem to last too long).
While heating, slightly tap the top of the gpu and cpu to to ensure a good solder connection. Let cool and repeat on bottom side.
After cooling I apply a VERY THIN layer of arctic silver 5. I have heard from a number of people that less is more with thermal compound. Putting too much actually worsens the heat flow between the chip and heatsink.
Then i do a modification to the toothpick trick. First i bend the metal X's a little more giving it a little higher spring force. Then under the clips i put a thin washer to increase pressure between CPU and heatsinl. I fel the washers are a lot easier to apply then the toothpicks.
If any other people have experience similar or different to mine let me know. So far I have a whole bunch running strong for several hours.
Together we will find the solution!!! I am here to give anyone a hand. Feel free to shoot me a pm.
Post by: PhillyFanRS on February 18, 2007, 05:37:00 PM
Post by: futureunknown on February 19, 2007, 02:31:00 PM
Its not hard... just match the colors up.
Good luck
Post by: Perplexer on February 19, 2007, 08:07:00 PM
QUOTE(PhillyFanRS @ Feb 18 2007, 10:20 PM)
Heatgun is bull.
Finally a post that makes sense!
No offense to the rest of you, but you are NOT reflowing solder... and if you really ARE getting the components hot enough, you are damaging them or other parts of the board! ESPECIALLY when adding pressure...
I won't deny that there is a problem with BGA components contacting the board, but what is REALLY happening is that your heat is causing the motherboard to flex and temporarily (days, weeks, even months) improving contact between them.
If it makes you feel better, then go ahead and use the heat gun... but you will NEVER fix the problem this way!
Post by: dayothegreat on February 19, 2007, 09:45:00 PM
QUOTE(futureunknown @ Feb 19 2007, 10:38 PM)
why not just buy a longer sata cable, then extend the power cable?
Its not hard... just match the colors up.
Good luck
the sata cable is not a problem, the power cable it is. and matching colors is good if it is'nt all black
Post by: dokworm on February 19, 2007, 10:24:00 PM
What is your Solution Philly???
Post by: Tortuga2112 on February 20, 2007, 03:59:00 AM
QUOTE(dokworm @ Feb 20 2007, 06:31 AM)
It is getting hot enough, you can measure the drop in the chip after the heatgun application when done right. Same with the apple ibooks with cruddy logic boards, you can *see* the difference in the GPU - circuit board gap quite clearly. The solder definately melts, the chip drops and the sucker works.
What is your Solution Philly???
ebay as parts.
Post by: _zlinky on February 20, 2007, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: bojngles on February 28, 2007, 12:48:00 PM
What i do now is heat from the bottom while putting slight pressure on the gpu/cpu. It will slightly drop. When this happens you know the solder is melted. Next, pull the heat away and continue to put some pressure for 30 seconds until the solder solidifies. This method has not failed me yet. 100 systems still going strong!!!!
Post by: PhillyFanRS on February 28, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
QUOTE(bojngles @ Feb 28 2007, 08:55 PM)
Hey its me again. After some trial and error, i will have to retract what i said about fixing these things. Heat on the top is not recommended! It could potentially damage the chip.
What i do now is heat from the bottom while putting slight pressure on the gpu/cpu. It will slightly drop. When this happens you know the solder is melted. Next, pull the heat away and continue to put some pressure for 30 seconds until the solder solidifies. This method has not failed me yet. 100 systems still going strong!!!!
What do i use to put pressure on the chips?
Post by: dokworm on February 28, 2007, 05:01:00 PM
Removing the heatsink clamps and replacing them with a better system (that supports the mobo the way it oughta be) seems to have permanently solved the problem, but time will tell I guess.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on March 01, 2007, 11:35:00 PM
QUOTE(bojngles @ Feb 28 2007, 08:55 PM)
Hey its me again. After some trial and error, i will have to retract what i said about fixing these things. Heat on the top is not recommended! It could potentially damage the chip.
What i do now is heat from the bottom while putting slight pressure on the gpu/cpu. It will slightly drop. When this happens you know the solder is melted. Next, pull the heat away and continue to put some pressure for 30 seconds until the solder solidifies. This method has not failed me yet. 100 systems still going strong!!!!
hey you mother and father did a good job!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
i see and you see !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
hey send me a e -mail i will send some video pics of what i do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
hop that we could see someday !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
hey i am happy for you !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)
hey be free to call ask for mick !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)
Post by: ydgmms on March 01, 2007, 11:58:00 PM
I have my first 3RoL + 0102 error coming this weekend. Already got the heat gun and a small idea of what to do. I told him what i had to do and that it was a gamble...
Post by: bojngles on March 02, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
QUOTE(ydgmms @ Mar 2 2007, 07:58 AM)
can you post links to what you do for everyone to see?
I have my first 3RoL + 0102 error coming this weekend. Already got the heat gun and a small idea of what to do. I told him what i had to do and that it was a gamble...
I know you arent going to like this but a heatgun is only a temp fix. You could try and use the heatgun but be VERY careful you dont burn those chips. You will need a BGA reflow machine. They range from a few thousand to tens of thousands and more. I recently acquired someone with one to do these repairs. Its a much more guaranteed fix with little chance of messing up the board.
Post by: sk8adio on March 02, 2007, 02:18:00 PM
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 02, 2007, 03:01:00 PM
QUOTE(bojngles @ Mar 2 2007, 06:13 PM)
I know you arent going to like this but a heatgun is only a temp fix. You could try and use the heatgun but be VERY careful you dont burn those chips. You will need a BGA reflow machine. They range from a few thousand to tens of thousands and more. I recently acquired someone with one to do these repairs. Its a much more guaranteed fix with little chance of messing up the board.
earlier you said you did 100 consoles and they're still going strong. how long has the longest running one been going for?
how much is the guy with the BGA reflow machine charging you? is he removing the chip and re-balling them ?
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 04, 2007, 06:36:00 PM
I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.
I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 04, 2007, 07:14:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 02:36 AM)
can anyone think of any kind of high heat epoxy that could be put on the corners of the GPU/CPU prior to putting the heatsinks back , just a little dab to make sure the corners don't lift away from the M/B.
I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.
I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image005.jpg)
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image003.jpg)
(IMG:http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/pimpmaul69/Image006.jpg)
heres what ive been using to fix them.. they are 10/32 x 1/2 inch wich is the exact same size as the old screws.. pay attention to the way the heads are shaped... no need for any washers at all..sorry the pics are a little crappy
This post has been edited by pimpmaul69: Mar 5 2007, 03:17 AM
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 04, 2007, 07:27:00 PM
using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.
I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.
so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.
Post by: pimpmaul69 on March 04, 2007, 07:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:27 AM)
yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.
using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.
I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.
so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.
gotcha....
Post by: RBJTech on March 05, 2007, 02:40:00 AM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 01:36 AM)
can anyone think of any kind of high heat epoxy that could be put on the corners of the GPU/CPU prior to putting the heatsinks back , just a little dab to make sure the corners don't lift away from the M/B.
I was even thinking of putting a little bit of solder on the heat sinks where the corners of the chips are. so when you put the heat sinks back they press directly on the corners.
I think if we can put enough pressure on the chips corners so it can't flex away from the board it'll last longer.what do you guys think?
You will not stop thermal expansion with a bit of epoxy - or bolts for that matter, they will just split the board as the weakest link if there is no 'give'.
I don't think anybody truly knows what's causing these solder joints to fail (yet, lots of theorys..) but if it is thermal movement, then making sure the board moves with the chip sounds a better long term solution that trying to fix it all down ?
To minimise thermal expansion of the chip and board in the first place also seems like the best solution - better cooling - there are obviously plenty of 'mods' for keeping the die of the chip cool - but I think I am the only person to date to implement 'underboard' cooling...
You would be amazed at the amount of heat generated from UNDER the motherboard - I have a radial fan extracting heat from inbetween the two X-clamps (via a 40cm hole cut in the case itself) - the air it extracts is easily as hot as the main exhausts, which IMO, means under the board without this forced extraction is getting rather hot ...
My theory here, is to keep both the chip AND the board and all it's soldered BGA connections as cool as possible to minimise thermal expansion.
If anybody is interested in seeing this setup, then let me know and I'll do some diagrams/pics - there is a pic of the fan in some of my threads, but none on the construction and how it works ...
Regards, Richard.
Post by: dokworm on March 05, 2007, 03:30:00 AM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:27 AM)
yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.
using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.
I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.
so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.
It probably will however keep the corners of the board from flexing away from the chip, and you wouldn't need to overtighten it to the point that the board would split.
The amount of movement is tiny, not enough for the board to crack.
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 05, 2007, 09:25:00 AM
QUOTE(RBJTech @ Mar 5 2007, 10:47 AM)
You will not stop thermal expansion with a bit of epoxy - or bolts for that matter, they will just split the board as the weakest link if there is no 'give'.
I don't think anybody truly knows what's causing these solder joints to fail (yet, lots of theorys..) but if it is thermal movement, then making sure the board moves with the chip sounds a better long term solution that trying to fix it all down ?
To minimise thermal expansion of the chip and board in the first place also seems like the best solution - better cooling - there are obviously plenty of 'mods' for keeping the die of the chip cool - but I think I am the only person to date to implement 'underboard' cooling...
You would be amazed at the amount of heat generated from UNDER the motherboard - I have a radial fan extracting heat from inbetween the two X-clamps (via a 40cm hole cut in the case itself) - the air it extracts is easily as hot as the main exhausts, which IMO, means under the board without this forced extraction is getting rather hot ...
My theory here, is to keep both the chip AND the board and all it's soldered BGA connections as cool as possible to minimise thermal expansion.
If anybody is interested in seeing this setup, then let me know and I'll do some diagrams/pics - there is a pic of the fan in some of my threads, but none on the construction and how it works ...
Regards, Richard.
I did your fan mod under the xbox. I used a 70mm fan though. blowing into the box. here's the link post #124
I originally had it at 12v but it was wayy too loud, so I switched it to 5v and its much quieter now. the box is very cool now. gaming discs don't even get warm now.
My idea about putting something on the heatsink was just what dokworm was saying. I just wanted a little dab on the corners ,right where the chip meets the heatsink, just to keep it connected to the M/B.
Post by: RBJTech on March 05, 2007, 10:20:00 AM
..- A bit off topic (
) but I couldn't see the motherboard in your underside pic through the fans ... did you cut a hole in the metal case itself, or are you just cooling the bottom of the case ?This diagram shows what I did to get the actual motherboard itself cooler ...
I have also used a radial fan now to blow the air to the back of the console - I found the axial fan just dumped the heat onto the surface that the xbox was sitting on ... granted better than in the Xbox but not ideal ..
Back on topic - I'm hoping that this will keep the BGA joints themselves cool ...
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 05, 2007, 10:38:00 AM
I actually have it blowing air into the box , next one I do I think I'll have it pulling the hot air out instead like yours.
I showed some friends the cutout for the fan (the one I copied from you) . everyone liked the design.
it was also much easier than the one I did with all the holes.
Post by: bojngles on March 05, 2007, 01:55:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 2 2007, 11:08 PM)
earlier you said you did 100 consoles and they're still going strong. how long has the longest running one been going for?
how much is the guy with the BGA reflow machine charging you? is he removing the chip and re-balling them ?
They are mostly working right now to date. I have gotten only a few back. I gave one to my friend and he has clocked in almost 100 hours on it so far. But from all the feedback Ive been getting, I moved over to a bga reflow. I have 2 full time techs doing reflows for me. I could choose to have the reballing done but that brings my cost up to over 50 dollars more per unit.
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 05, 2007, 03:14:00 PM
most of the ones I've done , I've got the board up to about 180 C and that works. I have one now that might be fried though, tried it 3 times and no go. I'm just gonna sell it as parts.
Post by: bojngles on March 05, 2007, 11:47:00 PM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 11:14 PM)
what temps are they getting the board up to ?
most of the ones I've done , I've got the board up to about 180 C and that works. I have one now that might be fried though, tried it 3 times and no go. I'm just gonna sell it as parts.
I could offer to do a reflow on it and see if it works out. Pm me if you wanna try it out.
Post by: phoenix risen on March 06, 2007, 12:00:00 PM
I am a newb ( to 360 ) So let me get right to the point, please excuse my indepth post or interupption of this thread ( i thaught this thread would answer my thaughts).
Ok I got A 360 that was crashed with the 3 red lights of death from a friend a couple of weeks ago for free... now i tried the heatgun fix 2... now 4 times ( waiting for it to cool as i type.) it work the 2nd time for about three hours then it crashed, ex.. froze then did the 3 red lights again. so i did some mods for cooling... so I did the ol' AS5 grease replacement, then i Shrouded the Heatsinks for better air flow..., added a NYKO intercooler then I cut the CASE Twice one on top like an intake for cool air, the i did the same on the bottom and even cut the steel to cool the MOBO, wired both fans to 12V. and I even added extra heatsinks to the visible ram chips and the south bridge, then i got some Thermal pads, . worked fine. it worked the 2nd time for about three hours then it crashed, ex.. froze then did the 3 red lights again. So I did more research and found out about the process of the BGA array and how M$ oven heats the board for the ease of assembly. and I went into the local electronics store and saw A 360 inside a friggin Plexigalss case with no air flow... and the friggin thing is working all day long w/ no probs. So needless to say i am quite frusterated, because i am doing just about everything to keep this thing cool. would anyone have any input for me besides buying a new one. oh yeah its out of warrantyand i just chopped the GPU heatsink nd dropped the remainder down a couple mm's to get contact with the covered ram chips in an attempt to disipate heat even more. Pictures if you would like me to post them let me know And will gladly post whatever You all want to see on the console. Thank you in advance ..... You all helped me i my first xbox endeavor.
This post has been edited by phoenix risen: Mar 6 2007, 08:04 PM
Post by: phoenix risen on March 06, 2007, 12:23:00 PM
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06003.jpg <<<enclosure
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06001.jpg <<<MOBO
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06002.jpg <<<Case/ Fans
Post by: RBJTech on March 06, 2007, 02:26:00 PM
QUOTE(phoenix risen @ Mar 6 2007, 07:30 PM)
Here are the links to the pics
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06003.jpg <<<enclosure
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06001.jpg <<<MOBO
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06002.jpg <<<Case/ Fans
I've said it before and I'll say it again - no amount of extra cooling will do any good AFTER you have the 3ROL ! The damage has been done - the solder joint(s) have been broken, the board has been warped etc etc. You may be able to slow the break again, but it will happen again. The only fix is a proper reball and reflow as discussed in this very thread as the only real solution. And once this has been done - then apply the cooling mods to keep it from happening again ...
People need to do these cooling mods BEFORE they get the 3ROL not after ... but of course, people think that their xbox is working good so it must be cooling ok .... wrong...
I've never had a single problem with my xbox, but I have done all these mods as a PREVENTATIVE measure in the hope that keeping it cool will eliminate the BGA problem. Touch wood, at the moment my xbox is 'cool' after hours of use, so if the 3ROL happens to me, then I don't think we can blame heat at all !
All the best,
Richard.
Post by: dokworm on March 06, 2007, 04:08:00 PM
It is worth a shot and bolting the heatsink to the board may just stop the board warping enough (or at least apply pressure in the right places) to keep your 360 humming. At any rate I'd like to see how it goes with a chronic failing unit like yours.
Post by: shtonkalot on March 06, 2007, 10:54:00 PM
It was my first try at such a repair and it nearly went pretty wrong.
The el-cheapo heat gun I got only had two settings, 300 and 600 degrees Celsius.
I only used the lower setting but managed to heat up some capacitors on the top of the board to the point where one of them blew up. It really exploded too, made a huge bang and shot the casing of the cap straight up to the ceiling.
Plugged it in afterwards and the XBOX is now working fine. I did replace the cap but it was working fine without it too.
The console would not turn on at all before hand and was displaying a 0020 error code. Applying pressure to the memory chips or the 'toothpick trick' didn't make any difference either.
So another win for the heat gun. It has been working for 24 hours now after the fix. I hope it continues.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on March 06, 2007, 11:47:00 PM
QUOTE(phoenix risen @ Mar 6 2007, 08:30 PM)
Here are the links to the pics
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06003.jpg <<<enclosure
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06001.jpg <<<MOBO
http://i176.photobuc...Summer06002.jpg <<<Case/ Fans
you could try tooth pick on
yes used two side by the fan ..
if not you may need to in all coner by the gpu !!
good luck !
Post by: ydgmms on March 06, 2007, 11:51:00 PM
QUOTE(bojngles @ Mar 2 2007, 06:13 PM)
I know you arent going to like this but a heatgun is only a temp fix. You could try and use the heatgun but be VERY careful you dont burn those chips. You will need a BGA reflow machine. They range from a few thousand to tens of thousands and more. I recently acquired someone with one to do these repairs. Its a much more guaranteed fix with little chance of messing up the board.
Me not like it? Meh. MY friend..maybe. He stil hasn't brought it over.
I'm aware its a temp fix, if one at all, as is my friend. BUT *IF* it does fix it, I plan on doing more cooling mods (ala RBJTech) to TRY to keep it from happening again. Including - AS5, TalisMoonFan, less air restriction, possibly the fan timer mod, heatsinks on other components. Basically - ANYTHING to keep it cool and keep it from happening again.
Post by: drastic on March 07, 2007, 04:58:00 PM
Should I do heatgun again and -press down- on the GPU chip this time? I know even this won't be a permanent fix but it'd be nice to buy a few more months of time..
Anyone in the Seattle area know of a business that would do a proper reball with lead-free solder? This is what I really want and I'm sure it must be cheaper then M$'s "fix" ($140)
Post by: phoenix risen on March 08, 2007, 09:06:00 PM
now here is where the problems arise... Q: is it the pressure or not?? A: Idunno , but its worth a shot ... if brute force hold the connection when it heats up maybe there will be no room for the ram chips to shift to disconnect.
Q: what will it look like when your done .....A: i will post the pics as soon as i finish.
Q: is it worth it ? ....A: yeah sure....
Post by: ydgmms on March 12, 2007, 05:17:00 AM
QUOTE(Tortuga2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 03:27 AM)
yes , those screws look like a good alternative , but not what I was thinking.
using those screws will still not help put any pressure on the corners of the chip, just more pressure on the die.
I was thinking about right on the corner of the chip, everyone seems to be in agreement that its most likely the outer balls breaking and not the ones right in the center of the chip.
so I figured that if there was something there, at least it will keep the chip in contact with the board.
Good point here... and it brought back to me a memory of a picture of an old AMD processor.
It had foam pads on the corners of the cpu, I know think it is for that reason. To keep pressure on the entire cpu surface - not just the die.
like that..
Post by: Tortuga2112 on March 12, 2007, 07:37:00 AM
I"m not sure what material to use for this though. its got to be something thats not going to melt all over the chip.
I was thinking of putting a bit of solder on the GPU heatsink at the spots where the corners of the chip are, but I wanted to put even pressure and it would be pretty hard to get all 4 the exact same height.
Post by: ydgmms on March 12, 2007, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: ssyoda on June 19, 2007, 01:49:00 PM
with the heat gun that had the ring of death and when fixed and powered on with the game in the drive, it would go straight to the dashboard. Can anyone Help