Post by: twistedsymphony on August 11, 2006, 11:30:00 AM
While I'm sure most people can recognize a flashing red light as being a problem, many may not realize that there exists a hidden error code that can be extracted when the Ring of Light gives you the evil eye. I wont go into details about these codes (there many of them) but I have written a guide explaining what all the different error codes mean, or at least what we know so far. The most common error you hear about with the Xbox 360s is 3 red flashing lights around the power button, more often then not the hidden error code on these units is found to be 0102; "Unknown Error".
The solution most people attempted (with limited success) was to improve the console's cooling capabilities by adding more powerful fans or using a more efficient thermal compound between the heat syncs and the chips. You may remember some fleeting news reports about thermal compound that still had foil on it, later discovered be by design and not by error. Looking at the error codes though, overheating being the root problem just doesn't make sense. For one, 2 flashing red LEDs represents an "overheating" console according to documentation right on MS's own website. 3 Red lights is a pattern dedicated to a hardware failure. Also there are a number of different hidden codes that represent overheating and 0102 is not one of them... So what does it mean?
Recently an Xbox-Scene member who goes by "Team Modfreakz" discovered that his console with 3 red lights and error code 0102 also had graphical errors and putting great pressure on the memory chips the errors would disappear. This is important because the memory chips, the CPU and the GPU all attach to the mainboard though what's called a Ball Grid Array or BGA. Basically when manufactured there are hundreds of tiny solder balls on the bottom of the chips, the chips are laid into place on the motherboard and then sent into an oven. The oven heats up the solder and in doing so connect the chips permanently to the mainboard. This is used for its low space requirements and ease of manufacturing, the Xbox 1 and many other products use this as well.
What's interesting about Team Modfreakz discovery is that it proves that (his Xbox 360 at least) did not have a good connection between the chip and the mainboard. It's no unheard of for a BGA connection to occasionally go bad or not come out of the oven as it should. If the solder balls were not properly heated in the oven it can easily create a weak or finicky connection between the chip and the mainboard that might be dead out of the oven, or get worse overtime, or even change in reliability based on changes in temperature and humidity etc.
Team Modfreakz decided to use a heat gun and simulate the effects of an oven in an attempt to "reflow" and thus repair any bad solder joints in the BGAs. It would seem that this method was quite successful. Later Team Modfreakz released a video demonstrating the proper procedure for re-heating the mainboard.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...20fix&hl=en
From What I've seen, many of the people who have attempted this have had great success in repairing 3 red lights and 0102 error code Xbox 360 consoles. While it does not have 100% success it seems to have worked well for many people who were able to get rid of their console problems altogether. The method is quite dangerous and easy to screw up it is certainly NOT for the faint of heart. I would recommend anyone who has problems either return your console to the store to have it replaced or call MS at 1-800-4MY-XBOX to have the console replaced or repaired. I would only recommend attempting Team Modfreakz's method as a very last resort. If you do attempt it, you do so at your own risk.
While not 100% reliable it does seem to have a higher success rate for this particular error code then any other previously suggested solution. Nothing can be proven for sure but it does raise interesting questions about MS's manufacturing process. Have there been consoles that were not properly "baked"? If so, was this problem limited to a small batch of consoles or was it a widespread miscalculation across multiple facilities? One can only hope that if this is in-fact a widespread manufacturing error that MS has already identified it and made the necessary changes to keep it from happening again. If this is something that hasn't yet been looked into by MS... as an Xbox 360 owner I would like to suggest that they do.
This post has been edited by C o s m o: Jan 1 2007, 03:16 PM
Post by: 68HC000 on August 11, 2006, 11:35:00 AM
It seems there were so many theories about the three red light errors, but people have tested this one, and most of the time it resolves their issues. The other successful fix i've seen is the thermal compound upgrade fix.
Thanks for pinning this BTW.
-68K
This post has been edited by 68HC000: Aug 11 2006, 06:38 PM
Post by: Tito2k6 on August 11, 2006, 01:09:00 PM
I had my system since December with no problems. It started hanging up in games and during startup just last week. Then two days ago it locked up and I got the red lights/102 code when I restarted it.
My point is this: My system has rarely been moved, is well ventilated, and worked perfectly for 8 months. Therefore, ALL 360 OWNERS should be aware that this can happen at any time. I don't want to start spreading fear, but you could be next.
I know many had problems at launch, but MS's problems may actually become worse as time goes on.
I thought I was one of the lucky ones.
PS Interestingly enough, when I leave it on for several minutes with the red lights flashing, I can usually get it to start. It's like I need to buy some starter fluid or something
"Maybe I should get out and push!"
Post by: leorimolo on August 11, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
LEo
PS you sig is huge fix it
This post has been edited by leorimolo: Aug 11 2006, 08:10 PM
Post by: phil44 on August 12, 2006, 12:23:00 PM
Pretty miffed MS are charging some people to repair a problem that is in essance a manufacturing blunder.
Thankfully I got a spot on result from the heatgun repair.
This post has been edited by phil44: Aug 12 2006, 07:26 PM
Post by: pimpmaul69 on August 16, 2006, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: bigdee89 on August 16, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: Tito2k6 on August 16, 2006, 08:37:00 PM
QUOTE(bigdee89 @ Aug 17 2006, 02:26 AM) 
I bought mine July 26th, 2006 and it died August 16th 2006. Nice eh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
You're lucky. You're still under warranty and NOW understand the importance of buying an extended warranty. You better buy it while you have the chance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
This post has been edited by Tito2k6: Aug 17 2006, 03:37 AM
Post by: bLiTz 2k on August 20, 2006, 02:26:00 AM
Post by: Farbrorn on August 21, 2006, 05:21:00 PM
Fans going at full 12V, keeping the GPU at a maximum of 46 degrees celsius, and the CPU at 35. The memory modules keep steady at 35 with passive cooling (on the back of the motherboard too). I've drilled some holes for them. Also, in some tutorial i've read theres was a guy applying arctic silver to the GPU and the memory chips located under the GPU heatsink.
I remember reading that the memory is at the same height as the GPU cores, but I discovered that it was not the case. I had to use a couple of heat conducting and self-adhesive insulating washers (normally for TO3P casings) on the sink to get contact with the memory under there. Also used thermal compound on them.
And to top it of, I took a piece of aluminium sheet metal, bent it to fit the GPU heatsink perfectly. This actually dropped it another 5 degrees celsius. MSs "out of the box" cooling really sux, draws air from everywhere. And the fans never go as fast as they should. I'm really scared that my second 360 will start acting up because of the amount of heat coming out of it. The exhaust temperature of an "ok" 360 is around 50 celsius, after running Burnout Revenge for a couple of hours. It cannot be healthy for the GPU to work at 70+.
I've been looking for a way, without water cooling it, or spending any real money on it. To make it not give me the 0102-error all of the time. If it dies on me again, i'll be going over 300 degrees celsius. And if that doesn't fix it. I'll take a crap inside its case, assamble, and mail it to MS. I'm sick and tired of this shit now. ;D
btw, i've got pictures of most of the "testing" i've been doing if anyone's interested.
Also have pictures of a homemade air channel, built of aluminium to thunnel air from a 60mm fan sitting by the CPU to the GPU. I scraped it after it came in the way of the memory chips and its cooling. Haven't done any actual testing on it, if it really did any use or not. But it blows air quite good, so it should do some good.
Post by: ProphetOfPain on August 24, 2006, 01:36:00 AM
Heatgun fix worked for me! I have a question though. Should I mess with the heatsink compound? Didn't seem to "juicy" and I know it's typical to harden around the edges, but was moreso than I liked, but then again I never seen dark grey compound like this before. So simply, is it common practice to regrease the cpu while getting in there with the heatgun. This is a console from 11/05 and i'm wondering what's the best way cool better so error 0102 stays away 
Great guide, i'm 1 for 1.
Post by: chapin_fourlife1 on August 24, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
my goes from 45c to 500c
Post by: twistedsymphony on August 24, 2006, 01:48:00 PM
QUOTE(ProphetOfPain @ Aug 24 2006, 03:36 AM)
... Should I mess with the heatsink compound? Didn't seem to "juicy" and I know it's typical to harden around the edges, but was moreso than I liked, but then again I never seen dark grey compound like this before. So simply, is it common practice to regrease the cpu while getting in there with the heatgun. This is a console from 11/05 and i'm wondering what's the best way cool better so error 0102 stays away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Great guide, i'm 1 for 1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The compound that MS and most consoles use is a little different then the stuff you find on a PC. the Grey Compound should be of a loose and rubbery consistency, almost like semi-hardened play dough. If it has the metal Foil (meaning it comes off clean with a shiny foil layer between the compound and the processor) then theoretically you shouldn't need to replace it. Otherwise it IS recommended that you replace it, IMO I'd replace it even if it did have the foil because the foil itself (while there for a reason) bungs up the process.
I'd recommend some Arctic Silver 5, and be sure to carefully read their instructions so you apply it properly. (or you could screw it up)
Post by: wingli373 on August 26, 2006, 04:57:00 PM
Post by: bigjimmy on August 26, 2006, 06:38:00 PM
. Good work!!
Post by: Smoove 360 on August 26, 2006, 10:19:00 PM
A number of months out of warranty and with nothing to lose, I opened up my console to see if anything was obviously loose or out of place (and to provide the best airflow I could get). I spent a good portion of the day searching forums and trying everything I could think of to get the console working short of mods or resorting to a heat gun, but I was having no luck. I was prepared to buy a heat gun and see if I had any luck, when I ran into a post talking about using artic silver on the heatsinks, and especially to make sure the heatsink screws were tightened securely.
I figured what the hey, and I tightened the 8 screws on the heatsinks roughly 3/4 turn until they seemed secure. Amazingly, the console booted, went to the dashboard and successfully launched a game (first time all day). Even better, it didn't freeze when I was playing. I shut the console down, and turned it back on to see if I was just lucky the first time. It booted again (another record for the day). I played another game, and again no freezing or errors. I put the case back on, turned it on, and again everything worked fine. I've successfully booted and played games 5 times in a row today with no problems, when I haven't been able to even boot twice in a row all day.
My theory is that the screws on the heatsinks are apt to slowly loosen as the temperature in the case changes. Eventually they become loose enough that it causes errors. I'll further speculate that some of the success of both the heat gun and artic silver fixes might simply be that in the process of removing and reattaching the heatsinks, they become properly tightened again.
In short, before you try anything drastic, you might want to check and make sure the heatsink screws are secure. Hope this helps someone.
Post by: bigjimmy on August 27, 2006, 03:40:00 AM
Hope your 360 STAYS fixed
Post by: elbombillo2 on August 27, 2006, 10:20:00 AM
Post by: Smoove 360 on August 27, 2006, 12:57:00 PM
On a side note, the heatsink screws need a t-9 torx (or star) screwdriver, while other console screws are t-10. Sadly, t-9 screws are just a bit small and hence easy enough to break.
Post by: viper740i on August 27, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
Post by: Smoove 360 on August 27, 2006, 04:57:00 PM
QUOTE(viper740i @ Aug 27 2006, 06:49 PM) 
three flashing red lights.............i just poped my joystick wire in and my xbox 360 came to life after 1 month of three red flashing lights ...........so try your joystick use the wire to connect to the system
You mean use a wired controller instead of a wireless one? Is that what you mean by joystick wire? I tried that and didn't have much luck (froze before even reaching dashboard).
On a side note, my 360 is back to being a worthless piece of metal & plastic. I'd love to know what MS really knows about the situation... as in what they are doing to repair the consoles returned to them.
Post by: faceless041974 on August 29, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: stewartElectronics on August 29, 2006, 02:36:00 PM
BS
Post by: keyindabox on August 29, 2006, 11:04:00 PM
Post by: snowblind99 on August 31, 2006, 06:10:00 AM
QUOTE(keyindabox @ Aug 30 2006, 12:35 AM)
By the way it sounds MS isn't any help, and Im not sure if I still have or even had a warranty...gonna have to ask my dad that.
The standard Xbox 360 warranty is 90 days. If you are out of that time frame they will charge you to fix it. My 360 which I got at launch, recently came down with the dreaded three red lights. I called MS last night and asked for repair, they quoted me the usual $140 or so to fix it. However I live in MA. Our state like others has the Implied Warranty of Merchantability. (Mass. Gen. Law Chapter 106
Sections 2-314, 2-316A) This means that when you buy something it should work as stated for a reasonable amount of time. 9 mos for a $400 console is not reasonable. I got them to fix it for free at no cost ot me. Now they tell me it can take up to a month for the process, I told them that was unacceptable. I asked them to expidite it, they refused. Well MA also has a Consumer regulation (940 CMR 6.12) which states that if a product is defective the customer can choose a repair, replacement or a refund and that your remedy cannot be limited by the retailer or the manufacturer. In otherwords if they don't play nice and expidite it I will demand a new console. I have yet to get an answer on that one but will update when I get one.
So any of you that have this issue and live in MA you can get it fixed for free. If you don't live in MA check and see if your state has these regulations and present them to MS, they will have no choice but the fix it for nothing. I am not an attorney, just a frustrated consumer who is sick of beta testing products and having to pay them to do it.
Good luck to all of you.
Post by: snowblind99 on August 31, 2006, 08:36:00 AM
QUOTE(snowblind99 @ Aug 31 2006, 08:17 AM)
So any of you that have this issue and live in MA you can get it fixed for free. If you don't live in MA check and see if your state has these regulations and present them to MS, they will have no choice but the fix it for nothing.
After doing some checking several states, including Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Vermont, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia do not allow the express warranty to limit your rights under their express warranty statutes. BTW in some states the limit for an implied warranty is four years. So by state law any product you buy that would normally last that long is covered without the purchase of an extended warranty.
This post has been edited by snowblind99: Aug 31 2006, 03:39 PM
Post by: ewok666 on September 03, 2006, 05:04:00 PM
QUOTE(stewartElectronics @ Aug 29 2006, 09:07 PM)
Regarding error 0102 while repairing a 360 that had this issue i found that the video connector had several cold solder joints that caused this problem. I resoldered the video connector and it repaired this problem
BS
Has anyone else tried this fix?
Post by: troublemaker400 on September 05, 2006, 04:56:00 PM
Post by: phil44 on September 05, 2006, 05:43:00 PM
Got the heatgun out again and it did fix it but only for a couple of days, this fix isnt permanent and I am well hacked off that my 8 month old 300 pound machine is broke.
Going to have to buy a new machine and hope for the best as this one has been flashed so no return.
Very very very angry .
Post by: Baseballsbest on September 05, 2006, 09:56:00 PM
QUOTE(phil44 @ Sep 5 2006, 07:14 PM)
Fixed the 3 red lights with the heatgun trick around 3 weeks ago, thought all was ok but it started to freeze again at the weekend.
Got the heatgun out again and it did fix it but only for a couple of days, this fix isnt permanent and I am well hacked off that my 8 month old 300 pound machine is broke.
Going to have to buy a new machine and hope for the best as this one has been flashed so no return.
Very very very angry .
Hey, I've found that after you've completed the hot air fix, it's best to run the console on it's LEFT SIDE only. The reason for this is because many consoles work well for a long period of time before recieving code 0102. Over time, the solder begins to feel the effects of the terrible cooling system and eventually looses connection. By turning the console on it's left side, you ensure that gravity will only pull the chips deeper into the solder instead of severing the connection. It wouldn't hurt to grab a NIkko intercooler after the fix to help prevent a reoccurence.
Keep in mind that WE shouldn't have to go through all this crap. We should have a reliable product for the money we paid. I was upset at first, but then realized that this was the only way I could prevent Microsoft from getting MORE of my money. Big ups to TMF for taking the initiative to find a DIY solution.
-James
This post has been edited by Baseballsbest: Sep 6 2006, 04:58 AM
Post by: brooksie48 on September 06, 2006, 06:15:00 AM
Post by: EllsinoreOutlaw on September 06, 2006, 05:51:00 AM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Aug 11 2006, 12:37 PM)
I'm sure most people have heard about some Xbox 360 units having problems; horror stories about 3 flashing red lights. There have even been articles arguing that the issues are due to the console overheating. Call MS Customer support and you might hear them tell you to unplug everything plug it back in do a voodoo dance and see if it helped. These things will work on occasion but their success is rare and haphazard at best.
While I'm sure most people can recognize a flashing red light as being a problem, many may not realize that there exists a hidden error code that can be extracted when the Ring of Light gives you the evil eye. I wont go into details about these codes (there many of them) but I have written a guide explaining what all the different error codes mean, or at least what we know so far. The most common error you hear about with the Xbox 360s is 3 red flashing lights around the power button, more often then not the hidden error code on these units is found to be 0102; "Unknown Error".
The solution most people attempted (with limited success) was to improve the console's cooling capabilities by adding more powerful fans or using a more efficient thermal compound between the heat syncs and the chips. You may remember some fleeting news reports about thermal compound that still had foil on it, later discovered be by design and not by error. Looking at the error codes though, overheating being the root problem just doesn't make sense. For one, 2 flashing red LEDs represents an "overheating" console according to documentation right on MS's own website. 3 Red lights is a pattern dedicated to a hardware failure. Also there are a number of different hidden codes that represent overheating and 0102 is not one of them... So what does it mean?
Recently an Xbox-Scene member who goes by "Team Modfreakz" discovered that his console with 3 red lights and error code 0102 also had graphical errors and putting great pressure on the memory chips the errors would disappear. This is important because the memory chips, the CPU and the GPU all attach to the mainboard though what's called a Ball Grid Array or BGA. Basically when manufactured there are hundreds of tiny solder balls on the bottom of the chips, the chips are laid into place on the motherboard and then sent into an oven. The oven heats up the solder and in doing so connect the chips permanently to the mainboard. This is used for its low space requirements and ease of manufacturing, the Xbox 1 and many other products use this as well.
What's interesting about Team Modfreakz discovery is that it proves that (his Xbox 360 at least) did not have a good connection between the chip and the mainboard. It's no unheard of for a BGA connection to occasionally go bad or not come out of the oven as it should. If the solder balls were not properly heated in the oven it can easily create a weak or finicky connection between the chip and the mainboard that might be dead out of the oven, or get worse overtime, or even change in reliability based on changes in temperature and humidity etc.
Team Modfreakz decided to use a heat gun and simulate the effects of an oven in an attempt to "reflow" and thus repair any bad solder joints in the BGAs. It would seem that this method was quite successful. Later Team Modfreakz released a video demonstrating the proper procedure for re-heating the mainboard.
From What I've seen, many of the people who have attempted this have had great success in repairing 3 red lights and 0102 error code Xbox 360 consoles. While it does not have 100% success it seems to have worked well for many people who were able to get rid of their console problems altogether. The method is quite dangerous and easy to screw up it is certainly NOT for the faint of heart. I would recommend anyone who has problems either return your console to the store to have it replaced or call MS at 1-800-4MY-XBOX to have the console replaced or repaired. I would only recommend attempting Team Modfreakz's method as a very last resort. If you do attempt it, you do so at your own risk.
While not 100% reliable it does seem to have a higher success rate for this particular error code then any other previously suggested solution. Nothing can be proven for sure but it does raise interesting questions about MS's manufacturing process. Have there been consoles that were not properly "baked"? If so, was this problem limited to a small batch of consoles or was it a widespread miscalculation across multiple facilities? One can only hope that if this is in-fact a widespread manufacturing error that MS has already identified it and made the necessary changes to keep it from happening again. If this is something that hasn't yet been looked into by MS... as an Xbox 360 owner I would like to suggest that they do.
What does it mean when you can't get screen on, after you push power and 3 Red Lights? I bought this 360 from a friend.
Thanks
Post by: brooksie48 on September 06, 2006, 09:40:00 AM
Post by: brooksie48 on September 06, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Baseballsbest @ Sep 5 2006, 10:27 PM)
Hey, I've found that after you've completed the hot air fix, it's best to run the console on it's LEFT SIDE only. The reason for this is because many consoles work well for a long period of time before recieving code 0102. Over time, the solder begins to feel the effects of the terrible cooling system and eventually looses connection. By turning the console on it's left side, you ensure that gravity will only pull the chips deeper into the solder instead of severing the connection. It wouldn't hurt to grab a NIkko intercooler after the fix to help prevent a reoccurence.
Keep in mind that WE shouldn't have to go through all this crap. We should have a reliable product for the money we paid. I was upset at first, but then realized that this was the only way I could prevent Microsoft from getting MORE of my money. Big ups to TMF for taking the initiative to find a DIY solution.
-James
wouldn't that put it laying on the hdd?
Post by: brooksie48 on September 06, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
QUOTE(brooksie48 @ Sep 6 2006, 12:16 PM)
wouldn't that put it laying on the hdd?
wow, my 360 is already broken again
Post by: Baseballsbest on September 06, 2006, 12:20:00 PM
QUOTE(brooksie48 @ Sep 6 2006, 01:16 PM)
wouldn't that put it laying on the hdd?
No, it would be laying on the HDD if it were upside down. The 360 is designed to either stand up straight, or lay on it's left side. Look on the side of your 360 and note the small black rubber grips in the corners.
Post by: phil44 on September 06, 2006, 12:34:00 PM
QUOTE(Baseballsbest @ Sep 6 2006, 04:27 AM)
Hey, I've found that after you've completed the hot air fix, it's best to run the console on it's LEFT SIDE only. The reason for this is because many consoles work well for a long period of time before recieving code 0102. Over time, the solder begins to feel the effects of the terrible cooling system and eventually looses connection. By turning the console on it's left side, you ensure that gravity will only pull the chips deeper into the solder instead of severing the connection. It wouldn't hurt to grab a NIkko intercooler after the fix to help prevent a reoccurence.
Keep in mind that WE shouldn't have to go through all this crap. We should have a reliable product for the money we paid. I was upset at first, but then realized that this was the only way I could prevent Microsoft from getting MORE of my money. Big ups to TMF for taking the initiative to find a DIY solution.
-James
Sounds like it could help, re-did the fix and now have it horizontal.
Hopefully this time it will stay fixed (although I doubt it tbh)
Cheers for the tip.
Post by: brooksie48 on September 06, 2006, 01:31:00 PM
QUOTE(Baseballsbest @ Sep 6 2006, 01:27 PM)
No, it would be laying on the HDD if it were upside down. The 360 is designed to either stand up straight, or lay on it's left side. Look on the side of your 360 and note the small black rubber grips in the corners.
well thats how mine was in the first place before it broke
Post by: ewok666 on September 06, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
QUOTE(brooksie48 @ Sep 6 2006, 06:16 PM)
wouldn't that put it laying on the hdd?
Doesn't work anyway...
I wouldn't call it 'the left side' either, I'd say that the sides are them SMALL pieces and the bottom is the large one.
If the 360 is in the NORMAL position, the DVD is taken out by moving it up.
If the 360 is on its side, the DVD is taken out by moving it sideways.
But that's just my thinking.
Anyway, I heatgunned my old 360 a number of times and ALLWAYS had it sitting in the normal position (so it was wider than it was tall. I died again and again and I do NOT think that this is a good position and here's why:
The hotest spots on the outside of the 360 are where the CPU and the GPU are soldered onto the motherboard. If it's in the normal position these hot spots are only a couple of mm away from whatever the 360 is sitting on and even on smooth, well ventilated material, the 360 gets a lot warmer when in the normal position.
Someone could measure temperatures to back this up but feel free to try this yourself.
Cheers
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 07, 2006, 11:59:00 AM
IIRC xboxexpert temperature tested the console and found that the heat pipe was more efficient when the console was sitting horizontal. it makes more sense that it would be from a physics perspective anyway.
Post by: IH8M$ on September 07, 2006, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: ewok666 on September 07, 2006, 12:53:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 7 2006, 06:30 PM)
I would think that if it feels warmer on the outside that would be better, meaning that more heat is radiating from the chip instead if sitting in there baking it. (heat rises so while space under the console is good it's not as imporant as other factors).
IIRC xboxexpert temperature tested the console and found that the heat pipe was more efficient when the console was sitting horizontal. it makes more sense that it would be from a physics perspective anyway.
Cooler on the outside generally means cooler on the inside as well. The surrounding air cools the case walls, the case walls in turn cool the inside. That's why aluminum cases for PC's are good ;-)
If the box sits flat, the bottom heats up but the heat has nowhere to go......where do you think it will go?
Don't know about the heat pipe....may be true but that's irrelevant imho. The general temperature of the inside of th unit is of interest. I do not think that the CPU temperature is an issue.
Cheers
Post by: jcdbc on September 07, 2006, 02:18:00 PM
the people at the help desk said they would fix it for 130 dollars. instead of paying it, im thinking of getting a lawyer,and since this is a common problem, they probally know about it, sp i will be asking for punitive damages too.
anybody up for a class action, it costs nothing if we loose, but will pay out if we win
jason
[email protected]
Post by: devilsfan666 on September 09, 2006, 08:55:00 AM
QUOTE(ewok666 @ Sep 3 2006, 07:11 PM)
Has anyone else tried this fix?
IM about to try this today-got a broken unit from ebay with this issue.System works fine/no errors as long as I keep pressure on the a/v connector-other wise I get no/scrambled video signal.
I will let y'all know how it goes.....
Post by: sebek1 on September 14, 2006, 07:44:00 AM
Post by: liq456 on September 15, 2006, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: liq456 on September 16, 2006, 02:17:00 PM
Pack: Xbox 360 Premium
Video mode: NTSC
Manufacturer date: 2005-12-18
Lot number: 0551
Team number: W2H0
please post your info
Post by: ewok666 on September 16, 2006, 03:24:00 PM
QUOTE(liq456 @ Sep 16 2006, 03:54 AM)
what we need to do is track the lot# and manufacture dates of the 360's having the problems, maybe its a bad lot or a range of dates with the problems. I will post my info when i get home.
On my dead 360, most of the capacitors are brown but there are a few yellow ones around the GPU. My newer replacement board has silver capacitors where the yellow ones were. Maybe(!) the yellow ones had problems....maybe not but it would be interesting to look into.
Post by: krc784 on September 16, 2006, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: leorimolo on September 16, 2006, 05:03:00 PM
Post by: kip on September 18, 2006, 02:34:00 AM
xbox 360
mftr 08/10/2005
Post by: nitussi on September 18, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
After reheating to a higher temperature and indenting the eight heat sink holes on the metal case, I have not had any returns.
To indent the holes, remove motherboard and everything from the steel cage. Lay the cage normal flat(just like the 360 sits when it is flat). Take a big phillip screwdriver with a tip about three times bigger than the hole. Put the tip on one of the holes. Then take a hammer and give the screwdriver a couple lite wacks. You want to create a small dent or crater. Just enough to see a little difference. Repeat this for the remaining seven holes. When you rub your hand across the bottom of the cage where the holes are, you should feel eight small pimples.
The theory behind this is when you put everything back together and tighten those eight little heatsink screws, there will be a tighter bond between the GPU/CPU and their heatsinks. This could also be a reason why that over time these systems seem to fail. Dont over tighten the screws because they will strip or break.
The next system I get I will try this without the heatgun fix and see if it works. I will post back if it does.
Post by: mrRobinson on September 19, 2006, 07:27:00 AM
Post by: Looouky on September 19, 2006, 01:09:00 PM
Dam Europe and their green laws have made it harder for everyone. As a matter fact even a nuclear facility has been plagued by these problems, and these facility are suppose to be built on the most tested and reliable equipment in the world.
Stop blaming MS, it is the result of force evolution by governments.
here is info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoHS.
Post by: twistedsymphony on September 20, 2006, 07:36:00 AM
QUOTE(Looouky @ Sep 19 2006, 03:16 PM)
Yes this is a manufacturing problem, but it is result of not using lead base solder. Ever since RoHS many companies are having issues manufacturing electronic equipment, because this is all new territory. Manufactures have been using lead solder since the begining of CPUs, the new laws have force many experimental process, and as a result issues have resurfaced that had been priviously solved.
Dam Europe and their green laws have made it harder for everyone. As a matter fact even a nuclear facility has been plagued by these problems, and these facility are suppose to be built on the most tested and reliable equipment in the world.
Stop blaming MS, it is the result of force evolution by governments.
here is info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoHS.
Good info but there are quite a few reasonable alternatives, it's not like they didn't know that they'd have to change over.
Also if non-lead solder was such a problem MS could have easily gone with a different solution, like a mechanical connection as opposed BGA.
Post by: cr4ck3rj4ck on September 20, 2006, 08:17:00 AM
QUOTE
like a mechanical connection as opposed BGA.
The only other solution is a surface mounted component, which would leave the pins exposed. I'm sure they don't want this for fear that someone could probe the bus and crack the 360's elaborate encryption system.
Post by: kip on September 20, 2006, 04:55:00 PM
Post by: grim_d on September 20, 2006, 04:28:00 PM
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 7 2006, 06:30 PM)
I would think that if it feels warmer on the outside that would be better, meaning that more heat is radiating from the chip instead if sitting in there baking it. (heat rises so while space under the console is good it's not as imporant as other factors).
IIRC xboxexpert temperature tested the console and found that the heat pipe was more efficient when the console was sitting horizontal. it makes more sense that it would be from a physics perspective anyway.
ive always thought it would have made more sense to have the cpu heatsink flipped round, so that the large bend was on the other side making it more effective for people who sit is vertical.
Obviously space is an issue but im sure they could have thought it out more
Post by: mrRobinson on September 21, 2006, 02:14:00 PM
QUOTE(kip @ Sep 20 2006, 06:26 PM)
well i heatgunned the xbox mobo this morning put it back together but only put the heatsinks screws in diagonal ie 2 on each and ive palyed motogp xbox live watched films and no problems so far .. big difference in fan noise now.. as if it working about same noise as xbox1 hers hoping its cured ..also removed siver foil under heatsink..it benn on for a while now no lockups or anything suss
ok 2 questions
1. what is the desired benefit of only putting them in diagonal?
2. wasnt the silver foil "mistake" debunked? Isn't it ok that its there?
I just want to stay up to date with the latest theories as I have 3 boxes with intermittent 3 red lights and will need to take some action shortly.
Post by: kip on September 21, 2006, 05:31:00 PM
Post by: Tito2k6 on September 21, 2006, 08:40:00 PM
This topic should be closed (after a final thought from our head mod, of course).
Those who have opened their consoles and are now unable to enjoy MS's good will should start a new topic. This thread has been going astray for quite some time now. Time to open a "what the hell is MS doing to repair these systems?" thread (for those who have already busted their warranty stickers)
.
Post by: chuxterofdoom on September 22, 2006, 06:28:00 PM
QUOTE(Tito2k6 @ Sep 21 2006, 10:47 PM)
Time to open a "what the hell is MS doing to repair these systems?" thread (for those who have already busted their warranty stickers)
.Way ahead of your there buddy.
Look Here
Post by: Draeconix on September 24, 2006, 04:28:00 AM
QUOTE(ewok666 @ Sep 16 2006, 10:31 PM)
On my dead 360, most of the capacitors are brown but there are a few yellow ones around the GPU. My newer replacement board has silver capacitors where the yellow ones were. Maybe(!) the yellow ones had problems....maybe not but it would be interesting to look into.
Unless someone has more evidence, The discoloration is generally indicitive of the components getting too warm. The heat changed the color of the label or covering on the outside of the capacitors.
Post by: jjjohnso on September 24, 2006, 11:32:00 AM
Post by: faceless on September 25, 2006, 07:32:00 PM
then i tried @ 550f for 2 minutes and again it worked for about 15 minutes...
yeah i think i'll just gonna call MS and get them to repair/replace it
Post by: ewok666 on September 25, 2006, 09:08:00 PM
QUOTE(Draeconix @ Sep 24 2006, 11:35 AM)
Unless someone has more evidence, The discoloration is generally indicitive of the components getting too warm. The heat changed the color of the label or covering on the outside of the capacitors.
Dude....they had brown packaging from day one. They didn't TURN brown while the 360 was running. If they HAD then yes, there might be a heat issue ;-)
A while back there was an issue with faulty capacitors on PC motherboards that eventually caused the systems to fail....so who knows. Or maybe it is just the solder after all.
Cheers
Post by: faceless on September 26, 2006, 01:47:00 AM
and my 360 has been running for 2 hours now and hasn't frozen yet
so far so good!
Post by: Darth Darius on September 27, 2006, 09:35:00 AM
, well first i do the fan mod (12 v) , it last 2 days and happend again,so i decide do the heatgun fix, and it works for me!!! i had 2 weeks without problems!!!.
Post by: victor_s on September 30, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
the articles about how to change the thermal compoud and i also got my error code witch was 1002.
My xbox used to freeze up and i couldnt play it for more then 3seconds before it crashed and when i used to try and turn it back on i used to get the 3 red leights of death.
Well this morning i actually tried to take it apart and try the heat gun trick.
It was fairly simple to do, it took more time to actually dissasemble the xbox then to do the trick.
(yeah i know im not 2 quick with it), after doing that i taught to my self to change the thermal paste.
I used some ArticClean Thermal Material Remover then some Thermal surface purifier and the xbox stock putty came out like butter. It was fairly simple to accomplish and it did help my xbox since now it works.
I tryed turning it on with no case right after the heatgun and the changing of the thermal putty and the Heatsinks were on fire, litteraly i couldnt hold my finger on it for more then 1 second. Then i taught to my self i put everything in good but i tryed puttin on that littly white airflow piece that connects to the heatsinks, and guess what. That little piece works wonders, im still wondering why it used to heat up so much with it off, shouldnt it be better since theirs more airflor but i guess not since it channels all the hot air towards the fans and not the rest of the motherboard. I played saints row a little without the white piece and it froze. Gave me a 2 red light error, player one and 3. Then i tryed once more with the white part on and with it on it works fine.
The thermal paste dropped my xbox down a couple of degrees and it doesnt seem to over heat anymore.
Im guessing its a good fix for the problem seemed to work fine for me.
Post by: Sniper_xB on October 03, 2006, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: Darth Darius on October 04, 2006, 09:23:00 AM
Still working!!!!, about 3 weeks, playing everyday!!!!Cheers!!!!
Post by: BCfosheezy on October 04, 2006, 09:45:00 AM
QUOTE(mrRobinson @ Sep 21 2006, 03:21 PM)
ok 2 questions
1. what is the desired benefit of only putting them in diagonal?
2. wasnt the silver foil "mistake" debunked? Isn't it ok that its there?
I just want to stay up to date with the latest theories as I have 3 boxes with intermittent 3 red lights and will need to take some action shortly.
Response to #2. No. It is impossible to "debunk" the fact that putting any material between the die and the heatsink acts as an insulator. In every case where I've removed this, applied AS5 I have been successful in repairing the console. There are many myths floating around about xbox 360 repair. The #1 myth is the "heatgun" trick. Everyone who does this reports that immediately after the console worked and then the problem returned. That's because it's an overheating issue. Any time you unplug the console after an error and let it sit, it will power back on next time. This is why the previous poster who thinks the heatgun trick works also does the dimpling. Simply increasing the pressure beteen the gpu and heatsink makes a drastic difference. This all shows you where the problem lies. It's definitely not with poor solder connections.
Post by: cdn_bacon on October 05, 2006, 07:43:00 AM
Post by: jdrapp01 on October 05, 2006, 06:42:00 PM
QUOTE(snowblind99 @ Aug 31 2006, 08:17 AM)
The standard Xbox 360 warranty is 90 days. If you are out of that time frame they will charge you to fix it. My 360 which I got at launch, recently came down with the dreaded three red lights. I called MS last night and asked for repair, they quoted me the usual $140 or so to fix it. However I live in MA. Our state like others has the Implied Warranty of Merchantability. (Mass. Gen. Law Chapter 106
Sections 2-314, 2-316A) This means that when you buy something it should work as stated for a reasonable amount of time. 9 mos for a $400 console is not reasonable. I got them to fix it for free at no cost ot me. Now they tell me it can take up to a month for the process, I told them that was unacceptable. I asked them to expidite it, they refused. Well MA also has a Consumer regulation (940 CMR 6.12) which states that if a product is defective the customer can choose a repair, replacement or a refund and that your remedy cannot be limited by the retailer or the manufacturer. In otherwords if they don't play nice and expidite it I will demand a new console. I have yet to get an answer on that one but will update when I get one.
So any of you that have this issue and live in MA you can get it fixed for free. If you don't live in MA check and see if your state has these regulations and present them to MS, they will have no choice but the fix it for nothing. I am not an attorney, just a frustrated consumer who is sick of beta testing products and having to pay them to do it.
Good luck to all of you.
It's good to know that Implied Warrenty of Merchantability is in West Vignia, but is t Consumer regulation in WV as well? I purchased my 360 on 9/17, and my problems started 10/2, 2 WEEKS. It started freezing playing MP3's off of the HDD. Then it started crashing playing games. Then it freezes at the startup logo, now it won't even boot and gives me the 3 red lights of death. I might even sell it once I get it back because I don't want this thing to die after the warranty. Snowblind do you know if the 2nd law you talked about is in WV? If so I might just demand my money back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif) and my Manufacture date was June 20 2006!!!!! The thing is brand new!
This post has been edited by jdrapp01: Oct 6 2006, 01:46 AM
Post by: Great2bfree on October 06, 2006, 12:54:00 AM
This post has been edited by Great2bfree: Oct 6 2006, 08:01 AM
Post by: micraz on October 07, 2006, 05:24:00 AM
This post has been edited by micraz: Oct 7 2006, 12:41 PM
Post by: VerbalVenom on October 08, 2006, 06:50:00 AM
QUOTE(snowblind99 @ Aug 31 2006, 08:17 AM)
The standard Xbox 360 warranty is 90 days. If you are out of that time frame they will charge you to fix it. My 360 which I got at launch, recently came down with the dreaded three red lights. I called MS last night and asked for repair, they quoted me the usual $140 or so to fix it. However I live in MA. Our state like others has the Implied Warranty of Merchantability. (Mass. Gen. Law Chapter 106
Sections 2-314, 2-316A) This means that when you buy something it should work as stated for a reasonable amount of time. 9 mos for a $400 console is not reasonable. I got them to fix it for free at no cost ot me. Now they tell me it can take up to a month for the process, I told them that was unacceptable. I asked them to expidite it, they refused. Well MA also has a Consumer regulation (940 CMR 6.12) which states that if a product is defective the customer can choose a repair, replacement or a refund and that your remedy cannot be limited by the retailer or the manufacturer. In otherwords if they don't play nice and expidite it I will demand a new console. I have yet to get an answer on that one but will update when I get one.
So any of you that have this issue and live in MA you can get it fixed for free. If you don't live in MA check and see if your state has these regulations and present them to MS, they will have no choice but the fix it for nothing. I am not an attorney, just a frustrated consumer who is sick of beta testing products and having to pay them to do it.
Good luck to all of you.
Where can I find information for the Warranty laws in the state of Florida?
Post by: VerbalVenom on October 08, 2006, 07:37:00 AM
Post by: benice on October 09, 2006, 12:08:00 PM
My problem is that i own a US NTSC machine and live in UK.
I ordered from VG+ and have a good relationship with them over the years.I have just sent an email to them on this and await their reply.I have also emailed Microsoft x360 support rearding this.
I read on VG+ that items only carry a 30 day warrantee.
If the worst case scenario happens and i have to pay for it to be repaired is it not going to be expensive especially if i have to pay for shipping.
In terms of Microsoft actually reparing the console would the UK microsoft deal with my US Console
Is there not a reputable x360 repair man in UK(pref London)(i know Raven Games but find Tony to be expensive).
So Angry have seldom touched my 360 in last month and have been waiting for several new titles due this month and next.
Post by: Great2bfree on October 10, 2006, 10:37:00 PM
From reading about the hot air guns. It can produce harmful chemical that can lead to cancer!!! Work in a well ventilated area, cover ur god dam nose, the smell is just alwful.
Reporting in. I received the gun today, and after much reading, both here and at xboxhacker.net, I felt this was the solution.
My xbox suffered from the 3 red ROL. It would sometimes boot, other times not; Either to the dashboard, or freeze at intro with xbox logo.
I bought a Hot Air Gun that is rated for 1500w. I used it at max setting which was level two at 495C. I constantly warmed both the top and buttom of the motherboard. I didn't time it. But at one point, the motherboard "pop" up and down for a sec, reacting from the heat that it was exposed to. I ignored it and continued to apply heat, primary (50%) at the GPU. The rest was for Ram/South bright.
I probably lasted a good 90 seconds, no more. The heat-sink was a bitch to remove and re attached. I did apply Artic Silver 5 to GPU.
At end. IT work. No problem reported after 2 hours.
WARNING***
From reading about the hot air guns. It can produce harmful chemical that can lead to cancer!!! Work in a well ventilated area, cover ur god dam nose, the smell is just alwful.
This post has been edited by Great2bfree: Oct 11 2006, 05:42 AM
Post by: Reyvn on October 13, 2006, 01:58:00 PM
QUOTE
"RE: Console Returned NOT REPAIRED
Dear Xbox Enthusiast:
An inspection of your console has revealed that tampering or attempted tampering of the console has occured. The warranty is voided as a result of these actions. In addition, Microsoft is unable to offer repair services for a tampered Xbox console. Therefore, the console is being returned to you as-is, not repaired. If you were charged, you charges will be refuned by check.
If you have further questions, please contaled the Xbox call centre. 1-800-4MY-XBOX.
Sincerely,
Xbox Repair Service"
Yes, they said, "If you were charged, you charges will be refuned by check." Notice the "you charges".
So looks like i'm going to buy a new one tonight, hopefully it works just fine..
Post by: BasicAir on October 13, 2006, 02:11:00 PM
If you did pay and you get a refund as they say you should consider yourself lucky. If you didn't purchase a warranty, though, like I didn't then hopefully they'll at least send it back to ya. Any word on that happening?
I was like everyone else -- Had my 360 since launch night in 2006. Never had issues, well vented, cool and dry area, only played average of 2-5 hours/week when bam, 2 weeks ago it just did the 0102 crap. It hadn't even been turned on in 2 days or even touched! I've never had a console break on me and I've owned like 20 ever since the Atari 2600 20 years ago.
I was pissed... I did the heat gun trick once and nothing changed. Did it twice, was able to play for 5 mins. So today I did the heat gun again. Now it'll only start to boot for about 5 seconds; as soon as I turn it on the fans speed up and the mobo makes a crazy sound that keeps increasing until it goes off in 5 seconds. I am at a loss to do. I'm seriously thinking about selling everything except my hdd and paying the difference to buy a new core pack. OR I'm considering seeing how much I'd cost to get repaird or just sell altogether instead of each individual part. The thing is, I'm very low on money - I just graduated college. :\
Post by: BasicAir on October 13, 2006, 04:34:00 PM
I don't know if I should turn it back on and let it sit for a few hours or just leave it since it's working. I know that noise means it's pulling more voltage, right? It's not just the fans, either. It's straight scary sounding. After the 20-25 minutes the case didn't feel abnormally warm either. It didn't overheat neither since it didn't lock up. But why the horrible noise? It sounds like a vacuum.
I have a feeling I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get some arctic cool 5. Will that probably fix this noise issue? Maybe I fried something with the heatgun and that's causing it? I don't know.
Post by: sq24 on October 13, 2006, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: BenS on October 15, 2006, 10:11:00 AM
However, everything has a 1-2 second delay to it. The speed of the console seems to be fine (geometry wars) but in the dashboard when you move right or left to switch menus, from the time you click right or left it takes a second or two before the screen reacts. WTF
I was ecstatic that it booted, but then this laggy crap got me disappointed again. I'll keep fiddlin' with it though and post my results.
Post by: Great2bfree on October 15, 2006, 05:23:00 PM
Post by: madnes5 on October 16, 2006, 03:21:00 AM
QUOTE(Great2bfree @ Oct 16 2006, 01:23 AM)
Four dys latter and now my console is giving me problems after the heat job. The console is now freezing and sometimes not booting past xbox logo. Guess it was a temp solution.
I resoldered sum seemingly dry joints and also worked for 2 days.. not to mention i started off with a dead 0102 console. I think it is safe to assume/conclude that something IS changing with the heat applied... so its a matte rof keeping it that way. When i do the hotgun fix im gonna couple it with that nyko cooler thingy maybe whatever melted into place doesnt melt again. again, ide like to know if anyone has fixed 01012 with gun and had it runnin for a month or so....
Post by: Reyvn on October 17, 2006, 08:28:00 AM
QUOTE(BasicAir @ Oct 13 2006, 09:11 PM)
That sucks Reyvn although I'm not surprised. I'm in the same boat in a way since mine is just barely in the 1 year warranty (will be for another week) but I can't return it since I've opened mine (just started having issues 2 weeks ago).
If you did pay and you get a refund as they say you should consider yourself lucky. If you didn't purchase a warranty, though, like I didn't then hopefully they'll at least send it back to ya. Any word on that happening?
I was like everyone else -- Had my 360 since launch night in 2006. Never had issues, well vented, cool and dry area, only played average of 2-5 hours/week when bam, 2 weeks ago it just did the 0102 crap. It hadn't even been turned on in 2 days or even touched! I've never had a console break on me and I've owned like 20 ever since the Atari 2600 20 years ago.
I was pissed... I did the heat gun trick once and nothing changed. Did it twice, was able to play for 5 mins. So today I did the heat gun again. Now it'll only start to boot for about 5 seconds; as soon as I turn it on the fans speed up and the mobo makes a crazy sound that keeps increasing until it goes off in 5 seconds. I am at a loss to do. I'm seriously thinking about selling everything except my hdd and paying the difference to buy a new core pack. OR I'm considering seeing how much I'd cost to get repaird or just sell altogether instead of each individual part. The thing is, I'm very low on money - I just graduated college. :\
Selling it probably would work.. Although I just went out and bought a core pack. Later i'll be trying the heat gun trick on my voided one. I'll post later how that works out.
Post by: benice on October 18, 2006, 04:16:00 AM
Today i got my machine back.Or so i thought.I checked the serial number and it is indeed a new US one,Dated 23/03/06 where as mine was 05.It looks brand new and was all wrapped in MS packaging and cellophane.
Damn that was quick!
However,i have just turned it on and HORROR it does not load up my old profile instead i get the "please choose a language...".
So what has happened to my info,i am guessing that they have replaced the whole machine including my harddrive!
I cannot get online for an 1 or 2 (work commitments),but how am i gonna resolve this.I have an xbox live account and numerous downloads such as arcade,demos,maps for games etc.It is a bummer but i can live without the downloads etc just so long as i can retrieve my xbox live account.
I put a letter in with my old model before returning specifically telling them i had all my profiles,etc in my harddrive and do not delete or remove it.I even told the rep before about this as he said in order for MS to fully test the machine i was to include the Harddrive.
I await your replies,it might be a case of having to call MS but i really dont want to send anything again being as i have just got it back and got Tiger 07 and Splinter Cell on way.As long as i can get live account back i will settle for a new machine without my old stuff rather than a repaired old machine.
As i posted originally i had called MS UK/US and as my machine was under warranty i asked for a "out of Region Repair" as advised by MS US.
No complaints with the service and spped but will be pissed if i canot get my profile sorted.
Post by: BNZI24 on October 20, 2006, 07:15:00 AM
All solder contains flux of some sort but the majority of it is burnt up during soldering. As the motherboard is also chemically washed the remains of the flux are also removed. Reflowing solder (especially lead free solder) with no flux will create dry joints. It will change the shape of the solder but may not make a good connection. With a good amount of flux around the BGA chips before reflowing them, the console may work permanently!?!
As poor soldering certainly seems to be an issue, is it not possible that it's the cause of most 360 issues?
I've bought 3 faulty core systems that arrived a couple of days ago and I've been reading around forums for repair advice. The error codes are:- 0102, 0110 and 0012. All 3 of these systems had not been powered up for a good few days during transit to me and all 3 instantly showed the red lights.
From what I can gather, reflowing should repair the first 2 but the 3rd is apparently due to overheating. I'm going to soak the thing in flux and look into the possibility of using a reflow oven. If not I'll blast it with a heatgun. I do have another 3 consoles on the way and I don't yet know the error codes. Regardless of the codes, the same method will be tried. Any results will be posted here.
Post by: SCSI on October 24, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
QUOTE(Reyvn @ Oct 17 2006, 10:35 AM)
Selling it probably would work.. Although I just went out and bought a core pack. Later i'll be trying the heat gun trick on my voided one. I'll post later how that works out.
My launch Xbox 360 just started to get the 0102 error last week. Will have to try the heat gun. Anyone know a good site to sell a broken Xbox 360? Planning on selling everything except the HD and DVD-rom.
Post by: XLNC on October 25, 2006, 05:01:00 PM
My 360 was manf. 2006-05-16 UK PAL, wonder if it's safe, well I'm going to wait it out for the DVD mod.
This post has been edited by XLNC: Oct 26 2006, 12:02 AM
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on October 26, 2006, 07:46:00 AM
OK, I officially entered the ring of death club. I want to know if anyone could successfuly solved a problem similar than mine, because I am from Brazil and have bought the 360 in a trip to Canada last January, so I cannot call MS for support/ehlp, since I am not in USA.
Here is what happened:
- My 360 was bought last January, being manufactured October 2005 and up to now has never give me any problem, in any game. I play it regularly, all games that are on my sig.
- It stands horizontally on a flat wood surface, with a lot o space in every direction. Connected to a LCD display through VGA cable.
- Last Friday night it played normally. On Saturday afternoon I tried to turn it on. It froze on the very start of the initial animation boot sequence, and gave me the 3 rings of death (only left superior led not blinking, meaning hardware fault). I run the diagnostics from it (pressing the sync and eject button) and it gave the code "0102", meaning unknow hardare fault. I do not need to say that I freak out. Tried to reattach the cables, plug out and in the HDD, move to vertical/horizontal position, etc, etc. Everytime it starts the 3 red rings were there, sometime the boot sequence appears and froze. After an hour messing with the stuff the console was working again. Apparently everything was normal again. I thought it was just a bad case of bad contact in somewhere.
- On Sunday the console start freezing on Kameo, every half hour. After a while I decided to deleted everything on the Kameo foulder, and start the game again. Played for 3 hours and nothing happened.
- This week I have minor freezings on several games, but yesterday the console start freezing at the beginning of every game, all the times.
The symptons:
- I can start dashboard normally and log to Live, no freezing at all.
- I can play arcade games for hours (GeoWars, Lumines) no freezing.
- I start a game. Cutscenes, menus, everything is normal until I start the game. After 5-15 secons the game froozes, give a bzz sound and the image is froozen on the display.
- I can open the DVD drive and remove the DVD.
- If I try to re-synch the controller it does not find the console, but if I turn off the console it also turns off the controller, so something is still working in console.
- I tryed to play games without the HDD, same symptons, so it is not a HDD fault
- I tryed to play demos stored on the HDD, same symptons, so it is not a DVD driver fault.
- Same happens if I am connect to Live or not.
- All the fans seems to be working, I can feel the air coming out from the back, even the air coming from the top holes are still cool.
May be the GPU which is more demanded at games than arcade games, and more ingame than in menus. Also memory is a suspect too, since it is more filled when playing a full game.
Seems that may problems are not so hard as some of the members because I can turn it on, log to live and play arcade titles. It just freezes on games. It is not exactly overheading because it also crashes after stayed turned off overnight, very soon after I turn it on.
Even more strange, while I was working with it yesterday my brother called me, saying that his 360 (bougth in May, produced in February) has the exact same symptons. It had the 3 rings of dead for about 1-2 hours, after that the console is working but freezing everytime he starts a game.
What are the odds of 2 Xbox360 with the same problems, at the same time, in two different houses? What a luck day!
I am thinking of opening the console today, to see if there is any dirt that my compromissing the operation of the console, but I would like to exchange some ideas with forum colleagues first.
Post by: bobt1956 on October 26, 2006, 03:57:00 PM
That was about 5 mos. ago and it's still running.
I tried to document what I found below.....
Open Box
http://www.llamma.co...Disassembly.htm
Notes : Only need T10 on (6) black screws to get the top of the case off.
Do not remove (8) black screws in center of box by X;s
For good measure ..
Clean all connectors.
Remove fan and clean.
Remove front circuit board and clean connector.
Clean & reseat DVD power and data connector.
Boot with DVD unplugged to check for green lights.
Tap ball bearing if not booting.
If that works replace DVD and test booting.
Check Top Cover for Melted Screw Post .File to reshape (making outside of post as small or smaller than original size)
Place top cover on box (no screws) and test booting.
Use palm to push down on cover near center and over back right corner of DVD while testing booting.
Turn upside down and replace black screws (one at a time) testing boot with each.
Only tighten screws snuggly. Over tightening will cause case to flex and create boot/3-Red Light problem.
Notes
Box will boot with DVD unplugged
Ball bearing near corner by memory slots.
Tap ball bearing if not booting.
Leave the box running for 20-30 minutes with flashing lights to cool it down.
When the red lights are flashing the processor is turned off. The effectively cools the system down because the fans are still running .
Problem
The xbox-360 is sensitive/delicate. Appears to have grounding issues.
The white cover must be connected with just the right torq on the screws or it will flex
causing boot issues.
Box may boot itself or shutdown while placing cover on with power connected.
BobT
Play & Win
http://www.netwinner...upCode=bobt1956
Post by: Mr.Chiaroscuro on October 27, 2006, 05:31:00 AM
QUOTE(bobt1956 @ Oct 26 2006, 08:04 PM)
My xbox 360 died out of warranty with the 3-Flashing Red Lights. So, I took it apart and figured out how to fix it (retired systems analyst).
That was about 5 mos. ago and it's still running.
I tried to document what I found below.....
Open Box
http://www.llamma.co...Disassembly.htm
Notes : Only need T10 on (6) black screws to get the top of the case off.
Do not remove (8) black screws in center of box by X;s
For good measure ..
Clean all connectors.
Remove fan and clean.
Remove front circuit board and clean connector.
Clean & reseat DVD power and data connector.
Boot with DVD unplugged to check for green lights.
Tap ball bearing if not booting.
If that works replace DVD and test booting.
Check Top Cover for Melted Screw Post .File to reshape (making outside of post as small or smaller than original size)
Place top cover on box (no screws) and test booting.
Use palm to push down on cover near center and over back right corner of DVD while testing booting.
Turn upside down and replace black screws (one at a time) testing boot with each.
Only tighten screws snuggly. Over tightening will cause case to flex and create boot/3-Red Light problem.
Notes
Box will boot with DVD unplugged
Ball bearing near corner by memory slots.
Tap ball bearing if not booting.
Leave the box running for 20-30 minutes with flashing lights to cool it down.
When the red lights are flashing the processor is turned off. The effectively cools the system down because the fans are still running .
Problem
The xbox-360 is sensitive/delicate. Appears to have grounding issues.
The white cover must be connected with just the right torq on the screws or it will flex
causing boot issues.
Box may boot itself or shutdown while placing cover on with power connected.
BobT
Play & Win
http://www.netwinner...upCode=bobt1956
Thanks for the tips. I will open my 360 today. But your link is broken. Is it the same article from Anandtech?
http://www.anandtech...aspx?i=2610&p=1
Post by: laxdeebow on October 27, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
So of course M$ wants $140 to get it repaired. Well all things considered, i've probably already dropepd a grand for everything i have, (controllers, games, xbox live, etc.), so i told them to shove it. Saw the posts here.
Did the hot air gun trick last night. After it cooled down, I applied the new thermal paste as per instructed from that post. Eureka, it finally came on, but i noticed that the unit wasnt as loud as it was before. Before the three red lights, i mean it was loud. The Fan could be heard very well when it would wind up and whatnot. However, now it doesnt seem like it varies at all. It still works a little bit, but after playing 30 mins or so of GRAW, the unit freezes up. I have the pelican usb fan stand as well and that doesnt really help. I checked to make sure the fan connection plug was in place and tight.
Any reason why the fan would stop working correctly? Thanks for the info thought to at least get old yeller up and running.
Post by: BNZI24 on October 28, 2006, 06:39:00 AM
In my last post I said I was going to try the reflow/heatgun method on any console I get my hands on, regardless of the fault.
I've only tried one so far and as I suspected, it worked.
Error code 0012 apparently overheating? The heatgun method has cured this error. Does this not suggest that it is indeed possible that most errors could be due to poor manufacturing?
Any other overheating issues, I'd suggest trying the heatgun method. In fact, any faults at all and then report back here. Be interesting to see how many of the error codes can be repaired by simply reflowing them.
Post by: Tonycrew on October 28, 2006, 08:45:00 AM
Did the heat gun fix last night... and got it back to life for now.....
But i'm reckoning that these problem for the most will come back.. Dam M$ i really like my 360...
Lol i forgot to add did mine with the wifes Hairdryer.. hehe mind you it does get very very hot and burns her head.. maybe thats faulty aswell... i wonder if M$ make my wifes hairdryer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
This post has been edited by Tonycrew: Oct 28 2006, 03:46 PM
Post by: moogster66 on November 01, 2006, 05:23:00 PM
Post by: X-hacker on November 03, 2006, 11:58:00 AM
Recently I've been clocking up some overtime at work, and haven't played my 360 for about 2 months now. (Yes, I know I should spend more time with her...) I went to switch it on this morning to play Chromehounds, and GUESS WOT - 3 lights of death!!!
Now, the last time I played it, like I said was over 2 months ago, I spent about 8 hours on it solid. As you can imagine, I could have fried an egg on the damn thing.
Just seems strange reading these posts then this happening out of the blue...
Got meself a hot air gun from Maplin Electronics 2day, gonna roast the bitch til she screams!
Will post back with results...
Post by: X-hacker on November 03, 2006, 01:23:00 PM
I roasted the motherboard for about 2 -3 mins with my heat gun and VOILA! It worked until i put a game disc in.
My findings are this...
The chip with the Microsoft logo on a silver circle seems to be my problem.
If I push down on this chip, the 360 works fine, when i let go, the screen goes blank and i get the 3 red lights.
I've just let it cool down after roasting it a second time for a bit longer, and now i don't need to touch anything to get it to boot up, it works fine!
So.... YES M$ use shitty soldering/poor manufacturing methods and I personally think they need to pull their thumb outta their ass and actually look at the return percentage of this product and save us all hassle, time and money by doin sumthing about it. M$ sucks c**k for rock when it comes to the 360. Sorry...
Post by: jamima69 on November 03, 2006, 10:41:00 PM
apparently,the ideal reflow temp for tin based solder is 125-135 deg f ,while electronic components start taking damage at approx 140 deg f. so there's your window for reflowing the solder. there should also be a warm up period of about 10 mins at close to reflow temp before turning up the heat on the board to full blast,(in my case,the first time i reflowed at about 125 the first time for 2 mins,the second time at 140 deg f, for 2 mins)
then gradually cool down the board over a period of 20 mins or so,not moving anything until the board is back to room temp.
dont take anything i've said here as gospel,it just happened to work for me,and i didnt research it very far,since i was convinced both times my 360 was completely screwed anyways
Post by: jamima69 on November 03, 2006, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: 0db on November 09, 2006, 05:55:00 PM
QUOTE(bobt1956 @ Oct 26 2006, 02:04 PM)
My xbox 360 died out of warranty with the 3-Flashing Red Lights. So, I took it apart and figured out how to fix it (retired systems analyst).
That was about 5 mos. ago and it's still running.
I tried to document what I found below.....
Open Box
...
BobT
I got the dreaded ring of death the day after I reflashed my firmware, error 0102, and random freezes after running games for just a few seconds...
Followed Bob's procedure here and my box is currently "partially assembled" and I just finished playing NFS:Carbon for over 2 hours without a hitch.
I can't believe these things are SO sensitive to the way they're handled.
Post by: cramesta on November 10, 2006, 07:56:00 AM
The heatgun solution seems the way to go, as well as applying Arctic Silver 5 and tightening screws on the heatsinks. While I need to purchase some thermal paste, my father has a heatgun I can use. I've watched Modfreakz's demonstration several times, and I think I'm ready to give it a shot.
It looks like these three solutions have worked for people, and I'd like to know if any of you have objections to trying them on a warranty-voided console. I've already opened it up and extracted the motherboard.
1) Use a heatgun to fix soldering issues
2) Apply Arctic Silver 5 on GPU and CPU
3) Tighten screws on heatsinks
I know most of this has worked well for you, but a lot of you also seem to report problems several days after the "operation". Oh well, I'm giving this a shot! I'll report how well it works after I do it.
- Cramesta
Post by: cramesta on November 10, 2006, 03:47:00 PM
This trick really does work, guys, and if you put some new thermal paste on it as well as keep your 360 in a well-ventilated area, your Xbox 360 will come back to life!
Post by: Jagsfan6116 on November 11, 2006, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: jtrip on November 13, 2006, 03:32:00 PM
QUOTE(cramesta @ Nov 10 2006, 05:47 PM)
This trick really does work, guys, and if you put some new thermal paste on it as well as keep your 360 in a well-ventilated area, your Xbox 360 will come back to life!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
But for how long?
Post by: cramesta on November 13, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
QUOTE(jtrip @ Nov 13 2006, 11:32 PM)
But for how long?
Unfortunately, it only worked over the weekend. Now I'm beginning to have problems again, mainly freezing after it being on for a few seconds.
Does anyone know how I could fix this?
Post by: 0db on November 14, 2006, 08:25:00 AM
Almost makes me think it might have little to do with heat and more to do with how well the 360 is reassembled afterward. Maybe the more experienced repairmen here are just doing a better job applying even and sufficient torque to the reassembly process? I dunno, just thinking out loud.
Post by: 0db on November 15, 2006, 11:20:00 AM
I tried the heat gun trick and arctic silver on the heatsinks to no avail. Continued three-red-lights for hours after completion and a 0102 code.
When I was trying to fix it I plugged it into another TV for testing and noticed the composite video cable was slightly crushed (so the tip and sleeve of the yellow RCA connector were in contact). I pried the sleeve apart so I could plug it in, attached it to my other TV, and powered up. Green light. Go.
Played NFS:Carbon and Gears of War for probably 5 hours last night without another problem.
This proves nothing but it suggests that an 0102 could also be related to damaged cable issues (protecting the video output stage from shorts is reasonable cause for an error)
Just one more thing to check out... I've had cable assemblies fail in much less obvious ways, so if you've got an "unfixable" 0102, it might be worth trying another AV cable assembly.
This post has been edited by 0db: Nov 15 2006, 07:21 PM
Post by: Lastrite on November 16, 2006, 04:30:00 AM
I didn't have a proper hot air gun so I just used a hair dryer and I also didn't remove the heatsink (lacked the correct screwdriver). After heating the heatsink for 20 mins I let it cool down tested it and immediately it booted perfectly and it's been working fine for the past two weeks
Post by: cramesta on November 16, 2006, 04:15:00 PM
QUOTE(Lastrite @ Nov 16 2006, 12:30 PM)
I have a launch machine which gave in a week ago and started giving me 3 red lights and a 0200 error code. The machine would boot 1/3 times and freeze after about 10 mins prior to me using the 'hot air gun trick'.
I didn't have a proper hot air gun so I just used a hair dryer and I also didn't remove the heatsink (lacked the correct screwdriver). After heating the heatsink for 20 mins I let it cool down tested it and immediately it booted perfectly and it's been working fine for the past two weeks
You must have been having a slightly different problem than the rest of us, especially if your error code was 0200.
Well guys, I think I'm going to return it to the store I bought it from and just get a new one. I pray it doesn't give me the same problem.
Post by: X-hacker on November 17, 2006, 12:25:00 PM
Completely dead - Solid 0102 error from cold and warm boot.
Stripped it, cleaned it, Heat-gunned it, then "re-greased" the CPU & GPU with Arctic Silver.
Works fine now, been playing GOW for over 6 hours on co-op, and not even a splutter. Rebooted it 10-12 times just to make sure, ran it with GRAW (playing demo and title screen for around 2 hours) and all is still fine.
Just a note, when I heated the PCB, it really did bend! I could see the curvature of the board compared with my worktop, is was pretty worrying! When it cooled tho, the board was straight again.
After all this, It's been working since, not bad for £30!
Post by: cramesta on November 17, 2006, 09:25:00 PM
QUOTE(X-hacker @ Nov 17 2006, 08:25 PM) 
Just bought an xbox 360 premium package off a friend of mine for £30!
Completely dead - Solid 0102 error from cold and warm boot.
Stripped it, cleaned it, Heat-gunned it, then "re-greased" the CPU & GPU with Arctic Silver.
Works fine now, been playing GOW for over 6 hours on co-op, and not even a splutter. Rebooted it 10-12 times just to make sure, ran it with GRAW (playing demo and title screen for around 2 hours) and all is still fine.
Just a note, when I heated the PCB, it really did bend! I could see the curvature of the board compared with my worktop, is was pretty worrying! When it cooled tho, the board was straight again.
After all this, It's been working since, not bad for £30!
I hope it continues to work like that!
Post by: gli7ch on November 19, 2006, 10:36:00 PM
This post has been edited by gli7ch: Nov 20 2006, 06:37 AM
Post by: defective xbox360 on November 19, 2006, 11:27:00 PM
File your complaints here:
http://www.callforaction.org/
http://www.bbb.org/
Your state Attonery General
Your local on your side news team
The more complaints made maybe Microsoft will do the right thing and fix all the defective XBOX 360's!
Post by: Specter on November 22, 2006, 02:38:00 PM
I have a 360 here with the 3 red light problems.
I stripped the 360 I looked at the board, everything seem to be correct, I cleaned the gpu/cpu, I added some artic silver 5. I tested the 360 like that (board outside of the case) everything was fine.. I played for half hour and no more 3 red light. I put back the part in the case, tested again and now the 3 red light are back !?!?...
So I was tired, I said I will try again tomorrow.. and today when I came back from work, I pushed the Power buttom and tada!! it works ?!?! How come.. I didn't touch it.
I know the problem is might due to the bad internal solder something like that and we need to use the heat gun bla bla bla.. but if that was the case, How come the 360 work between two days without touching the 360 ?
The only thing that I can think is.. today it`s very humid and cold.. and yesterday it was hot and dry... so do you think it might be the moisiture on the 360 ? (I saw someone was talking about that on another post but I don't know what he's talking about) If yes how can I clean the board ?
thanks for your advice and sorry for my bad english (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)
This post has been edited by Specter: Nov 22 2006, 10:39 PM
Post by: LeeWatkins on November 22, 2006, 05:06:00 PM
Post by: neveti on November 22, 2006, 11:03:00 PM
I'm one lucky men
Post by: justscrapping on November 26, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: caseyhalone on November 27, 2006, 09:53:00 AM
Post by: poxtomod on November 29, 2006, 03:28:00 PM
QUOTE(caseyhalone @ Nov 27 2006, 11:53 AM)
when its not getting anything on screen and still the 3 red RoL, is that the same solder reflow problem? The fans do not seem to spin up at all. would doing the 12v mod help things out?
I did the heat gun trick and would advise anyone else with 0102 error( 3 red lights) to do the same, I also redid the Arctic Silver thermal compound as well and my box is working perfectly.
I saw the video and it says to allow the board and solder to cool slowly, which I did, but the video did not show how exactly to do this. My method was the same but after blasting the board for the last time I waited about a minute then gave it a 20 second blast on low again. I repeated this another two times with growing wait times rhen let it cool for three hours. The microsoft site clearly says it might take acouple of hours to internally cool.
If you are having problems please try this. Do not be in a rush or the Heat gun trick may no work well for you. I would also like to add that metal that cools to quickly becomes brittle and hard, where as slowly it stays softer and more durable.
I will run my box for the next couple of hours to see if it is fixed and let you guys know.
Post by: 82ross on November 29, 2006, 04:27:00 PM
Pisses me off especially when my v1 xbox is sitting there working fine years later. Ill probably wait a year or so till all this poor manufacturing is resolved and they move to the smaller chip production process and maybe have a better cooling solution and them buy a new one.
Post by: macrohard360 on December 06, 2006, 07:33:00 AM
It was manufactured 8/5/06. What are the failure rates on or around that manuf dates? Are those systems more reliable or do they have just has high failure rates?
Post by: 0db on December 06, 2006, 09:03:00 PM
First attempt yielded 3 red lights again
Second attempt would start a game but then freeze after about 2 minutes... no red lights though
Third attempt I found the sweet spot on my heat gun dial (apparently above 50% it was getting colder again!) but at the 50% mark it was REALLY hot... I actually thought I cooked the board this time, I could have sworn I let the smoke out of one of the capacitors. But sure enough, it started up great and I played R6:Vegas for over an hour without any hangups... I'm putting an intercooler on it and hoping for the best now!
Post by: sky2k2 on December 07, 2006, 02:56:00 PM
This is my experience with Three Lights of Death...I used hot air gun to repair my console and work 2 weeks, but error comes again!, so I try again but I can tell you why a hot air?...and my answer is because solder is bad and GPU is very hot!!...so after time I see behind in the motherboard back to GPU there pyramide of capacitors..here is the problem (maybe for me only) there is a piece (capacitor) out..so I used one from my broken cellular and boyla (same size)...my Xbox work again...but...there is a delicate work, ok, now my xbox take again error 102, I open again and my piece that I solder was out of motherboard...my solder was bad...and now I seek for flux and try a better solder...so this is my experience..
A friend bring to me another console with error and there is the same problem a capacitor is out from back to GPU..Is the same solution...delicate work..
Then I tell you that when you used your hot air gun, maybe your capacitors from back GPU is on board yet...and you come back to life with hot air...but remember solder is lossing properties and maybe error comes again.
That´s was my experience
Thanks
And sorry for my english
Sky2k2
Grettings from Mexico!
Post by: FUVictim on December 08, 2006, 07:10:00 PM
Not sure this would help.. but what do you guys think?
Anything else to suggest? replace paste? add 12v fan?.. right now I'm simply getting the red lights (no boot to dashboard) so would doing this be a possible "fix" to have it boot again? It came right after the nov. 30 patch for the 1080p update.. had no problem before that...
my warranty is over and I had a bad time (a couple in fact) with M$ customer service, so I'd like to fix this on my own.. I have nothing else to lose.. it's either that or use it as a doorstopper... thanks!
EDIT: Thanks Sky2k2.. that's helpful.. I guess it's a bit to "delicate" for me though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) If that is my problem, I will probably try to have to find a 3rd party repair shop that can fix this quick.. I don't want to wait for 20+ days for M$ to fix it.. and then get a "refurb" that is going to eventually have the exact same problem... =S
This post has been edited by FUVictim: Dec 9 2006, 03:14 AM
Post by: ewok666 on December 09, 2006, 03:15:00 AM
QUOTE(sky2k2 @ Dec 7 2006, 10:56 PM)
Hello everybody,
so after time I see behind in the motherboard back to GPU there pyramide of capacitors..here is the problem (maybe for me only) there is a piece (capacitor) out..
Which capacitor was it? They are numbered on the board.
Thanks
Post by: Vytautus on December 09, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
This is most upsetting that it's a known problem. I'm assuming I can buy a hot air gun and fix it, it's an error 0102. I'd prefer to throw it away at this point and sell my stock.
Post by: pdawg17 on December 09, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
...error code 0102...
Post by: pdawg17 on December 09, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: St8kout on December 13, 2006, 11:52:00 AM
All early models are STILL under warranty until March 2007.
I got the dreaded screen-freeze/3-flashing-red-lights two weeks ago on my production date Oct 19, 2005 model. MS not only replaced it for free but even sent me a prepaid prelabled return box. Just got the new one last night. That's better than any service I've ever had with any electronics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
This post has been edited by St8kout: Dec 13 2006, 07:55 PM
Post by: Safrole on December 15, 2006, 11:24:00 AM
QUOTE(82ross @ Nov 29 2006, 06:27 PM)
Heatgun reflow worked for me for a couple of weeks then the freezing started again
I read so many of these.
Do you know about the towel trick, where you wrap it up and let it overheat for a bit? It works, for a while. Obviously it doesn't remelt the solder, but it works for a while. So temporary success can be had with simple heating. The difference between simple heating and solder reflow is only a few degrees.
How do any of you know you actually melted any solder at all? First off, if you used a hair dryer you need to have your head examined. You aren't melting anything with mom's hair dryer, so don't waste your time pulling the whole box apart to do essentially nothing. Go big or stay home.
I put some little smashed out solder chunks on top of each component. When the solder melts, the TOP of the part is at the right temperature. Go a little past that to melt the bottom. Make sure not to blow a molten chunk of solder onto the board if you can help it.
When the reflow works for such a large number of people, but you have another group that finds the solution only temporary or even unfruitful, you have to deduce that their technique is flawed. More evidence is the monkeys who emulate the look of the video (by using a HAIR DRYER) then post results as if they really executed some valid technique.
Don't have a rework station? Use solder chunks. It's the only way you'll know for certain that you've exhausted this method short of abusively overheating your board.
START WITH THE POST ON 11/13/2006
BGA Reflow Technique for I-Book
Post by: Le Nikolaz on December 19, 2006, 12:45:00 AM
Mate i heared about 6 months of working 360 after heat gun, and it must be still working...
Another guy's 360 is working about 3 months, he done that heat gun fix by himself.
Nobody of them as i know made 12V mode for fans or something else in that way.
So i hope that this method can really fix 360 for a very long time:) But these are only dreams of mine.
This post has been edited by Le Nikolaz: Dec 19 2006, 08:48 AM
Post by: dougMod on December 20, 2006, 02:56:00 PM
i think i may just sell it
Post by: headtrip on December 27, 2006, 02:07:00 PM
It happened originally after some hours of non-stop gaming (resulted in crash).
After reboot (artifacts & crash)
After 2nd reboot 3 RED LEDS ;(
This was the situation till yesterday...
What we did/tried now:
Open up the console, removed everything. So Only the mobo is in the case with the DVD drive connected and the 2 casefans.
Booted up the console...
Waited till it gets overheated ( 2 Leds instead of 3)
Turn off the xbox.
Place a big home-kitchen airventilator over the xbox.
Boot again...
Green LEDS !!!
As long as the venilator is blowing on top of the xbox it works ok (tested with some several hours gaming need for speed carbon, gears of war, cod3).
So when we turn off xbox and boot it again with the vent on, its ok !
When we turn xbox on without vent (with or without original airduct for the 2 fans), it crashes after 5-10minutes giving artefacts errors.
Reboot gives us back into the famous red led situation.
Mostly this is solved by letting the console cool down totally...
Boot... overheat... Reboot with vent...
And again no red lights...
Conclusion:
Since many people speaking about this prob, I guess the initially overheating caused some solder to brake some connections.
Now, the overheating "heals" the connection in a kind of "light" way.
With the amount of heat, the connection gets broken again, resulting in the artefact errors.
If we cool all the parts well enough, the connections stay fine.
Just a few thoughts from a frustrated Xbox360 400 euro owner
Post by: wizer on December 28, 2006, 07:42:00 PM
If someone could tell me what these are and where to find them, as impossible as this sounds, I am would like to try and replace these.
Thanks
Post by: 2501 on December 28, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
My brother gave me his 360 after he got 3rol 0102. I began to solder all the cold spots on the board that I could see, then proceded to AS5 the cpu/gpu. I finally broke down and heatgun'd the board and it seemed the only fix for me. the 360 is out of warranty, and I had nothing to loose. I'm going to bench it and let it run gears of war with the full fans hooked up and see how effective it was.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/muhaha.gif) I just got a fully working 360 w/o hdd for free. Knowledge is power. I also have a hot-air machine, so if it comes down to it, I'll blow off the bga chips entirely and try to re-mould them.
BTW... as I forgot to mention.. as wizer found out the hard way.. be VERY careful when using the heatgun only to heat the necessary area on the board and keep it constantly moving. Things can blow off, and things can melt. It doesn't take that much effort to heat the bga chips, and if you just take your time, they will get hot enough to move without taking the other electronics off.
This post has been edited by 2501: Dec 29 2006, 04:49 AM
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 01, 2007, 09:53:00 PM
QUOTE(wizer @ Dec 29 2006, 03:49 AM)
Started with the 3 red leds. Did the heat gun trick 3 times and finally got the box to boot, but then later got an error 74. Took the xbox back apart and noticed that there are 3 of the small resistors on the bottom of the mobo under the video chip missing. I Guess maybe I got it a little to hot.
If someone could tell me what these are and where to find them, as impossible as this sounds, I am would like to try and replace these.
Thanks
hey i see you have don same as me !!
it is not EZ to solder ..
most time this damage whan you puting the heatsenking unit
dont even try to just solder togetther it will boot to dashboard but
whan you playgames it will frezz..
i try put same pice and resolder but no good !!
it looks you could solder but you need to see the mobo if it is
touching the cpu if it not macking connacion it will frezz whan you playing games
if you want to try i will give you the pices
let me know see if you could solder
Post by: Slapnutzz on January 02, 2007, 06:12:00 PM
Bought another cause I can't find my receipt. Worked for 3 days, same thing.. Haven't even flashed the drive yet.
This thing is so poorly designed it's a joke. Putting a 3.2ghz triple core next to a full blown ATI gpu was such a newbie mistake it's laughable. I laughed out loud the first time I opened it.
Somebody, or most likely a team at MS recommended liquid cooling.. Those people should be promoted and the bean counter that said no should be canned, if he hasn't been already.
It doesn't take a genius to know that excessive heat cycling in a small area is asking for trouble in any application.
I want my money back, cause it can't be fixed. And my PC plays better games anyway.. And it's cooled properly.
Post by: RDC on January 02, 2007, 06:20:00 PM
QUOTE(wizer @ Dec 28 2006, 09:49 PM)
Started with the 3 red leds. Did the heat gun trick 3 times and finally got the box to boot, but then later got an error 74. Took the xbox back apart and noticed that there are 3 of the small resistors on the bottom of the mobo under the video chip missing. I Guess maybe I got it a little to hot.
If someone could tell me what these are and where to find them, as impossible as this sounds, I am would like to try and replace these.
Thanks
Without knowing which parts are missing it's impossible to even try and tell ya what they are. What are the board designations of the ones you have missing? They should be labeled RxRx or RxTx, x will be a number like R4R5 or R3T2.
This is a scan of the bottom of the board right under the GPU if ya nee something to compare yours to.
Post by: dj_adamix on January 02, 2007, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: Safrole on January 04, 2007, 07:19:00 AM
Run the heat gun fix properly. Put some little pieces of solder on your components as you heat them up. Smash them out or they'll want to blow off onto the board (bad, but they don't stick). When they change shape, back off a little and keep heating that part. If you want to get really fancy, put a piece of solder wick on it and when it wicks up it won't blow around. Between the superheating of each individual component, be sure to go back around the entire board and keep everything very hot.
Post by: Darth Darius on January 12, 2007, 09:51:00 AM
i "cook the modbo like this":
http://i140.photobuc...pg?t=1168622456
Sorry for the quality its a cellphone!!!
Thinking in just do the same "repair", but in the time ill drink a cold tecate beer i just see my refreshing drink an say "aluminium", i finish my beer an cut a piece like this:
http://i140.photobuc...pg?t=1168622771
well i cut 2 pieces and fold them to get thiknes, in the form of the ram and the other chip, put some artic silver and put between the heatsinks and chips to create pressure, be careful to cut exacly the chip form to avoid short cuts, put it back together an tested for 3 weeks, i got the brand new 360 stored under my bed, if you got nothing to loose, try this!!!
Cheers!!!!
Post by: Slapnutzz on January 12, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
Did it on my original dead xbox and it worked too... for a few days.. now it's locking up a few minutes into any game.
we gotta get a website/registry together to monitor this shit.. i smell a class action here.
Post by: davidrose9 on January 13, 2007, 11:27:00 AM
Post later with results thanks all great posts in here all sides are being examined.
Post by: dangerouseddy on January 13, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: deskstar on January 13, 2007, 03:28:00 PM
Post by: Hendrixtwin on January 14, 2007, 04:52:00 PM
Do I need to use the heat gun again? Can I just heat the bottom of the board or do I need to take off the heatsink again and replace the paste?
Thanks for any tips.
Post by: mygameswirelesscom on January 15, 2007, 12:22:00 AM
QUOTE(Hendrixtwin @ Jan 15 2007, 12:59 AM)
I have done the heat gun trick to mine also replaced the thermal paste with silver stuff and have replaced stock fans with the talismoon and have done he cardboard heating trick. No red lights but the games freeze after about 20mins of play.
Do I need to use the heat gun again? Can I just heat the bottom of the board or do I need to take off the heatsink again and replace the paste?
Thanks for any tips.
you could try tooth pick !!
it work for me !!
Post by: Anusko on January 18, 2007, 06:40:00 AM
Post by: davidrose9 on January 18, 2007, 08:47:00 AM
QUOTE(deskstar @ Jan 13 2007, 05:35 PM)
Without a doubt its down to the shoddy way this box is manufactured,two days ago i got the ring of lights error code 0102 so i fired up my heat gun got out the silver foil stripped the box down and started to heat up the board first on low then on high for 2mins on each setting let it cool for 1 hour,before you put the heat syncs back in make damm sure you use a good quality thermal compound (artic silver) or you will just get over heating errors but now after the heat gun fix my 360 boots up every single time and plays for as long as i wish, remember keep the thing cool TRY IT, IT REALY DOES WORK
Yes we're sure that it does, but for how long? 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, is there someone who has had a real long run with this fix, or is it just a few you very talented few, who are really good at it. I mean torque the screws just right heat just perfectly. This time my box passed the towel fix, boots up fine now, no more red lights just freezes 2 minutes into ever game I try to play, well today I will use my BRAND NEW Milwaukee HEAT RAY GUN.
Where??? PLEASE does the artic silver go does anyone have a diagram I do not know what the heat sync is or even looks like. Do I spread smear what precisely am I doing with the Arctic 5? These two brackets on the mobo look really hard to take off I need to take these off RIGHT?
Post by: davidrose9 on January 19, 2007, 05:18:00 AM
I dare not close it up yet, so the top is still off and will wait a few days to reassemble the casing, artic silver 5 was also applied and it seems to run a bit cooler maybe because the top is off I never had it overheat on me never played it more then a few hours at a time, I hope this is the end of my 3 light dilemma. I will post back if it starts up again. I will also post back the good news if there is any, in about a week or so, if it is still working that is.
Thank you all of you where very helpful.
Post by: Darth Darius on January 19, 2007, 09:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Darth Darius @ Jan 12 2007, 10:58 AM)
Well after my 9th time to do the heat gun trick and , last just a few weeks with middle play, i decide to buy another 360 (with extended garant. course) after a month , with my head cold , ill do this with my old , and death 360:
i "cook the modbo like this":
http://i140.photobuc...pg?t=1168622456
Sorry for the quality its a cellphone!!!
Thinking in just do the same "repair", but in the time ill drink a cold tecate beer i just see my refreshing drink an say "aluminium", i finish my beer an cut a piece like this:
http://i140.photobuc...pg?t=1168622771
well i cut 2 pieces and fold them to get thiknes, in the form of the ram and the other chip, put some artic silver and put between the heatsinks and chips to create pressure, be careful to cut exacly the chip form to avoid short cuts, put it back together an tested for 3 weeks, i got the brand new 360 stored under my bed, if you got nothing to loose, try this!!!
Cheers!!!!
Well today this fix run up for 4 weeks!!! yesterday, my day off, i play 3 hours of gow, 2 hours of Batlle for middle earth, see a movie, 1 hour of oblivion, and no crashes!!!! ill think this works!!!!
Cheers!!!!!
Post by: davidrose9 on January 20, 2007, 04:09:00 AM
QUOTE(Darth Darius @ Jan 19 2007, 11:16 AM)
Well today this fix run up for 4 weeks!!! yesterday, my day off, i play 3 hours of gow, 2 hours of Batlle for middle earth, see a movie, 1 hour of oblivion, and no crashes!!!! ill think this works!!!!
Cheers!!!!!
It would be nice to know what this trick is in layman terms i see the pictures of cola can cut up and a ton of foil what the heck is this trick share it please. Is this like the toothpick trick I still cannot find but keep hearing about how it works help us out with more info on these fixes?
Post by: Darth Darius on January 20, 2007, 10:14:00 AM
QUOTE(davidrose9 @ Jan 20 2007, 05:16 AM)
It would be nice to know what this trick is in layman terms i see the pictures of cola can cut up and a ton of foil what the heck is this trick share it please. Is this like the toothpick trick I still cannot find but keep hearing about how it works help us out with more info on these fixes?
Well Davidrose , you do the heat gun trick first, as you Know , i did it with the two heatsinks off, then you cut the alumminium can like the picture in the form of the two chips under the heatsinks, (just the plastic form), in the next pic , http://i140.photobuc...r7/Modbo360.jpg, watch for no put the piece in the small capacitors , just in the plastic like the pic, the pieces must be 2 for each chip to do the job done, put some artic silver in the chips, in the first piece to do a "sandwich" between pieces , this help for no moves when you installing the heatsinks
like this http://i140.photobuc...gengar7/Fix.jpg
when you put the heatsinks and put the screws the heatsink do pressure over the chip and prevent the fatal error.
Cheers
Post by: MeasuredPath on January 21, 2007, 11:05:00 AM
QUOTE(Tito2k6 @ Aug 11 2006, 11:09 AM)
I can testify that this is a problem that many may not encounter for some time.
I had my system since December with no problems. It started hanging up in games and during startup just last week. Then two days ago it locked up and I got the red lights/102 code when I restarted it.
My point is this: My system has rarely been moved, is well ventilated, and worked perfectly for 8 months. Therefore, ALL 360 OWNERS should be aware that this can happen at any time. I don't want to start spreading fear, but you could be next.
I know many had problems at launch, but MS's problems may actually become worse as time goes on.
I thought I was one of the lucky ones.
PS Interestingly enough, when I leave it on for several minutes with the red lights flashing, I can usually get it to start. It's like I need to buy some starter fluid or something
"Maybe I should get out and push!"
this fact came to life for me yesterday
Post by: Darth Darius on January 22, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
ill report if system crash, but think i got it!!!!!!
Post by: madas on January 24, 2007, 10:16:00 AM
Just missed out by a month on the 12 month warranty,i have hardly pld the damn thing either untill i got gears of war , oblivion and lost planet all great games!
Then i get e79 error and the dreaded three red lights,after changing date and time and without memory card harddrive etc worked ok for 5 mins then same again crashing and dreaded red lights
Considering i have not had the console that long and the money i paid for it i am absolutely disgusted that i have to pay 105 euros for a faulty machine to be fixed! how long will it last then? another year if played once in a blue moon?
Post by: Darth Darius on January 26, 2007, 03:48:00 PM
No crashes!!!!!, no freeze, Belive me this works!!!!
Post by: FearsomeSNR on January 26, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
Up to now its working fine, played approx 6 hours + and no lockups or freezes.
I used to have Error 0102 by the way.
Lets see how long this works for. I have a heatgun on standby if it goes bad again. Will use that as a last resort.
I'll let you know how long this lasts, i think it all depends on how long you play your 360 for on average. I play quite a lot so will probably see errors quicker than an average gamer.
There's no question that you can get your 360 up and running again after the 0102 error, the question is, for how long......
This post has been edited by FearsomeSNR: Jan 27 2007, 12:05 AM
Post by: Shepdog on January 26, 2007, 09:13:00 PM
Post by: Shepdog on January 27, 2007, 09:09:00 AM
Post by: davidrose9 on January 28, 2007, 06:04:00 AM
QUOTE(Darth Darius @ Jan 20 2007, 12:21 PM)
Well Davidrose , you do the heat gun trick first, as you Know , i did it with the two heatsinks off, then you cut the alumminium can like the picture in the form of the two chips under the heatsinks, (just the plastic form), in the next pic , http://i140.photobuc...r7/Modbo360.jpg, watch for no put the piece in the small capacitors , just in the plastic like the pic, the pieces must be 2 for each chip to do the job done, put some artic silver in the chips, in the first piece to do a "sandwich" between pieces , this help for no moves when you installing the heatsinks
like this http://i140.photobuc...gengar7/Fix.jpg
when you put the heatsinks and put the screws the heatsink do pressure over the chip and prevent the fatal error.
Cheers
Well three days of happy happy with my heat gun fix and RLOD back for a second time (only got to play it a few hours), so I through a towel over it and wala its lasted now for four days and I have been playing it 7 or 8 hours a day 3 day heat trick I didnt play but a few hours, so I guess I will just have to play like crazy every day. Yeah thats it> I will attempt the aluminum can fix next I have an option to swap it for a newer used 360 with a Hitachi LG drive $125 I dont want to because I love my Sammy and besides, does anyone really know if this issue is fixed in the newer 360s it may be found out 9 months from now that it hasnt, or has it been addressed? Only read the MS is 280 million in the red not only because of this but it is part of it.
Post by: Darth Darius on January 29, 2007, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: modchipper on January 30, 2007, 10:40:00 AM
Post by: davidrose9 on January 31, 2007, 05:05:00 PM
QUOTE(modchipper @ Jan 30 2007, 12:47 PM)
Big props to who figured this one out. Worked for my 0102 first shot. Very sweet! Still can't believe it.
Modchipper please explain what worked the first shot which fix are you talking about?
Post by: stantheman on February 03, 2007, 09:53:00 AM
Work great for me,cooked motherboar until got some strange smells.been running for 2 weeks now.cheers for the advice on forum
Post by: badassmofonz on February 06, 2007, 04:26:00 PM
I'd like to quick report about my Xbox 360 (New Zealand Launch Console, so around April Last Year, Hitachi Drive) so people can read my experience with the box, and with my breakage/repair.
My console was used daily (4 Hours+) for about 3 Months before I decided to crack it open and rewrite the drive firmware. At the same time I replaced the thermal paste with arctic silver. The 360 then functioned perfectly for another 5 Months before I downloaded the January 6 update. After about 2 Days, I was playing topspin, and the box froze. 3 Red lights.
Now I read anything and everything I could find on the net about this problem (This thread being the best resource!) I've seen the toothpick trick, the towel trick, and the heatgun trick. I decided I'd go for the least lethal first.
I then opened it up, disconnected the fans, and let it melt itself for a bit (aka, the towel trick, just without the towel). It started back up, but was inconstant and wasn't stable.
Tried the toothpicks, no change, so biffed the toothpicks.
I then added a 12v fan header to the motherboard and added an 80mm fan to the top of the GPU Heatsink, sucking the air off it. It got a little more stable, but wasn't really functional.
I then pulled the heatsinks off again, and came to the conclusion the clamps provided are rubbish. The Clamping force is shit.
I then heatgunned the GPU Only. Not very long, a couple of minutes, While it was hot (But after I had heatgunned it), I used a piece of wood and put a bit of pressure on the GPU Core, pushing it down.
I then removed the clamp mounts off the heatsinks and replaced them with nuts and bolts that go through the heatsink and motherboard with Washers on each end (To keep the pressure even). You will need to bend the fins on the GPU Heatsink.
You need to make sure the bolts are tightened properly, and evenly, you wouldnt want to overtighten one and crack a core!
I then put the 80mm Fan back onto the GPU Heatsink, Connected the 360 back up, and it's been running great since!
While it doesn't fit in the case anymore, mainly due to the DVD drive having to be moved, I'm not complaining!
So for those of us who are having issues, I think alot of it can be down to crappy heatsink clamp design as well.
Post by: Darth Darius on February 07, 2007, 03:17:00 PM
Post by: xdude335 on February 08, 2007, 12:09:00 AM
Post by: Darth Darius on February 08, 2007, 02:51:00 PM
Post by: henmill on February 11, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
last week my 360 started freezing for the first time since i've had it (dec. 2005). over the next few days, it started freezing more and more often, and in the last couple of days it would fail to start up. my box is modded, and i didn't bother to put in error leds on the rofl, but after looking over the symptoms for the 0102 error, i assumed i would be seeing that if i had error lights. my box has NO reason to overheat (fans running at full 12v at all times and as5 under the heatsinks). so i decided to go for the heat gun fix. i watched the video, and went by the instructions very carefully. after letting it cool and re-assembling it, my 360 booted just fine the first time, and is currently in use. it's only been about 30 minutes since i completed the fix, so i can't say this is a complete repair. however, i will keep updating, probably next week sometime and let you guys know how it's going.
Post by: Shepdog on February 11, 2007, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: henmill on February 20, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
@shepdog, i don't actually know the temp my heat gun goes to, but the model number is wagner 0503145 heat gun, so if you can find the specs on it, maybe that'll give you a good idea on what gun to use
Post by: Ashiato on February 21, 2007, 07:45:00 PM
the 360 is completly dismantled right now..i took both heat sinks off ^^;; but its clean and ready to go...i bought one compound but it isnt artic silver 5 which all 3 of the places i went to were sold out! i got this cheaper one at radio shack will it work just as good or should i go out there and get the artic silver cuz its that much better? i know for one thing i do not want to go through this again!!! ~.~
also what do you think of these little mini heat sinks for everything else? will those help or is it just something i dont need?
oh!! i was told to set the heat gun to 350! they said it works and thats the temp im planning on useing but i think i need a better heat gun so i will look tomorrow.
This post has been edited by Ashiato: Feb 22 2007, 03:48 AM
Post by: flipsorry169 on February 21, 2007, 11:18:00 PM
Is there anybody who has fixed many of the 0102 problems willing to fix mine? i'll pay for shipping both ways + some extra cash if they can get the job done.
Post by: henmill on February 23, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
QUOTE(Ashiato @ Feb 21 2007, 08:52 PM)
i have a question and sorry if it has been asked before but there are too many pages for me to read back on!! (yes 12 is too many!) anyway while on youtube i found a different video of this same process but for the error code i have which i belive is 0101 and when they opened their's there was foil present and the compound was on the little itty bitty guys however when i opened mine there was no foil and the compound was only present on the central square peice. sooo where does the compound actualy belong? should i just put it everywhere? i am completly new to this if you couldnt tell XD
the 360 is completly dismantled right now..i took both heat sinks off ^^;; but its clean and ready to go...i bought one compound but it isnt artic silver 5 which all 3 of the places i went to were sold out! i got this cheaper one at radio shack will it work just as good or should i go out there and get the artic silver cuz its that much better? i know for one thing i do not want to go through this again!!! ~.~
also what do you think of these little mini heat sinks for everything else? will those help or is it just something i dont need?
oh!! i was told to set the heat gun to 350! they said it works and thats the temp im planning on useing but i think i need a better heat gun so i will look tomorrow.
dude, whatever you do, DO NOT USE RADIOSHACK THERMAL PASTE! it really is worth it to get artic silver 5, so don't put your 360 back together until you have some. here is some for $5 + shipping from newegg. when applying the paste, put it on the two main dies of the gpu (big and little squares). the little heatsinks on the ram chips and chipset are helpful and will probably prolong the life of your console, but they aren't as important as the rest of the cooling. hope that helps
oh yeah, my 360 is still going strong
Post by: Ashiato on February 25, 2007, 09:09:00 PM
This post has been edited by Ashiato: Feb 26 2007, 05:12 AM
Post by: dtracing34 on February 28, 2007, 04:45:00 AM
firts reply for me So like many peoples i've got the ROD and then i use the air gun and also the toothpick and it works really .
This morning i 've been reading some topicks :
one french guys (yes i'm french ) ,got a xbox 360 totaly dead ,he use the air gun many times and then the ROD got the last word of that story ,but that guy find a solution ,he use the air gun for put straight those transistors under the GPU ,and he put a RAD and a FAN of GRAPHIC CARD ,he put also on each RAM one RAD this is the topic in french url/http://gueux-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=147871/url
i hope it help i try tomorow i think this is a good solution .
Post by: Biablo on March 01, 2007, 05:54:00 AM
So i turned on my Xbox360 and after playing for a few Minutes in GOW, the picture froze. I turned off and back on teh console and i get a Freezinfg Logo, i tried it a few times and then teh 3 Red lights of Dead appeared. I sent it too repairs too 2 Local store labs and they said it can`t be repaired.
What do you think is teh problem, and can it be fixed with the heat gun or a better option, i work in an Electronic company so i have access to a good soldering equipment if that can help.
thanks
Post by: FlAWD on March 03, 2007, 03:09:00 PM
QUOTE(Tito2k6 @ Aug 11 2006, 02:09 PM)
I can testify that this is a problem that many may not encounter for some time.
I had my system since December with no problems. It started hanging up in games and during startup just last week. Then two days ago it locked up and I got the red lights/102 code when I restarted it.
My point is this: My system has rarely been moved, is well ventilated, and worked perfectly for 8 months. Therefore, ALL 360 OWNERS should be aware that this can happen at any time. I don't want to start spreading fear, but you could be next.
I know many had problems at launch, but MS's problems may actually become worse as time goes on.
I thought I was one of the lucky ones.
PS Interestingly enough, when I leave it on for several minutes with the red lights flashing, I can usually get it to start. It's like I need to buy some starter fluid or something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
"Maybe I should get out and push!"
Just wanted to add in, that works for me also. If it's cold then I get the error, but if I leave it on for 10-15 minutes, and restart it, then it works fine. I will be trying the heat gun soon.
Post by: dokworm on March 06, 2007, 04:14:00 PM
QUOTE(Ashiato @ Feb 26 2007, 05:16 AM)
i didnt i finaly got some artic silver 5 but im finding it REALLY hard to put the Xs back on! i cant seem to do it!! (they look alittle bent from when i removed them...) any tips? i wish i didnt have to put them back on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) i just stuck my finger in the paste and now i have to clean it and do it over again! i give up for the night...
I would just chuck them and replace the bottom clamp with bolts - I reckon the clamps are adding to the problem anyway, see here:
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=588032
If you don't want to go the whole hog with board standoffs etc. another bloke just used countersink bolts through the bottom of the mobo up to the heatsink clamp on the top, real easy to do and moves the clamping pressure from the middle of the chip to the perimeter of the chip which might be a good thing - but I can't find the picture now.
Post by: kutkinder on March 11, 2007, 12:20:00 AM
Post by: Caddenmods on March 11, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
I installed a watercooling system, and everything went smoothly. It worked perfectly. I was so happy know it gives me an E73.
I can't send it back to MS so I don't know what the hell to do???
I want my baby up and running again!
Post by: FahadSaid on March 15, 2007, 09:32:00 AM
Maybe there's a new level of the Ring of Death, possibly 4 stage? (ex. 3 red lights would be 3-3-3-3)
It's always possible.
Post by: jaluka on March 17, 2007, 01:05:00 PM
I have followed the 0102 thread now and done alot of searching etc, the time has come to try this method out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
I had three boxes to try to fix for friends and one of my own (think ill keep mine untill last (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )
Anyway this is what happened i wrapped one in towels and left it turned on untill it cut outwhich did bring some life into the console for about 2hrs then 3 lod so i used the heatgun method warming up the board low,medium 5mins (approx 2.5 mins top & bottom) at each then 3 mins on high heat which was 600 degrees celcius (1100 farenhieght).
The one which showed life after the towel method is still working after 6 days.
Thats the good news out the way.......
Two others which i just went straight into the heatgun method now give me a 0020 error (overheating) i am not sure if i damaged the board etc or solved the 0102 problem and uncovered the 0020 problem, any info or advice on this would be appreciated!
And the last one MINE as i reached the temperature to soften the solder i caught the gpu with the nozzle of the gun and conveniently moved it 30mm off its position (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) i dont put the nozzle that close just accidental, so be careful you have been warned.....
All were put back together with artic silver 5 and cleaned and primed with artic silver cleaner & primer.
Are the 2 which now show 0020 beyond repair or can anyone recommend what i should try.
Many thanks to all who add to these pages
Mark
Post by: curranzor on March 24, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
2)600 degrees is WAY to hot to be heating up a 360...even more so because of how long you did it, and how close you were to the bored, you can be a good inch-2 inches above. Now as to 0020, do you still get the 3 red? it says possible overheating on the forms, but i dont think that would be the cause theres too many "overheating" codes. I think that you quite possibly fried a chip on the mobo with that 600 degree heat gun of yours.
Post by: clicker666 on March 24, 2007, 02:10:00 PM
Now I'm stuck.
1. I don't have enough thermal material for the RAM to reach the metal shielding on the bottom of the board. I think my bolt heads are a bit too thick and the board might be sitting just a touch too high. Can I cut away large portions of the shielding on the bottom to allow the ramsinks and bolt heads to clear the shield?
2. I picked up a 40 mm fan for the CPU. I assume I want it on the non-ducted side, but which was should the air blow - towards or away from the CPU?
3. I also picked up a 60 mm fan for the front right of the case. Blowing in or sucking air out?
That's all I've got for now.
Post by: clicker666 on March 26, 2007, 02:01:00 AM
I had limited success. I was able to play NFS: Most Wanted for about 15 minutes. Then I decided to see if I could play an HDDVD. Locked up. Three red lights again.
Oh well, I guess I'll just replace the unit.
Post by: lazzeri on March 26, 2007, 07:00:00 PM
QUOTE(clicker666 @ Mar 26 2007, 05:08 AM)
Update:
I had limited success. I was able to play NFS: Most Wanted for about 15 minutes. Then I decided to see if I could play an HDDVD. Locked up. Three red lights again.
Oh well, I guess I'll just replace the unit.
Have you ever tried the "Rubber mod"? It´s quite bizarre, i know. But it worked like a charm for me. My box was 14 months old (dec/05), got 3RL on friday and i´ve fixed it on saturday with the quoted mod. My box was only dead for 16 hours, it was almost a nap! :-D
http://forums.xbox-s...o...591894&st=0
Good luck to you all. And again, it´s a bizarre approach, but WAY less bizarre than the Towel trick, eh? :-D
Regards,
Lazzeri
Post by: nightmare84j28 on March 27, 2007, 07:05:00 AM
QUOTE(lazzeri @ Mar 27 2007, 02:07 AM)
Have you ever tried the "Rubber mod"? It´s quite bizarre, i know. But it worked like a charm for me. My box was 14 months old (dec/05), got 3RL on friday and i´ve fixed it on saturday with the quoted mod. My box was only dead for 16 hours, it was almost a nap! :-D
http://forums.xbox-s...o...591894&st=0
Good luck to you all. And again, it´s a bizarre approach, but WAY less bizarre than the Towel trick, eh? :-D
Regards,
Lazzeri
You know when its summer time and its REALLY hot outside and you can't stand to be anywhere but in front of a cooler? Wrap yourself in a few jumpers and blankets and you might start to feel like them ram chips do when you stick peices of rubber on them
The only thing that rubber is doing is pushing the ram tightly onto the board (perhaps touching a few bad joints)
You will cook the ram in no time, don't do it.
Post by: clicker666 on March 27, 2007, 09:51:00 AM
I took my old system, sat it down and plugged it in. Unplugged the fan and let it overheat. Plugged it back in and put it in my son's room connected to his STV. Worked fine, in a vertical position. Put it in his entertainment center sideways - 3ROL. Put it vertical, worked again.
Played GOW for about 30 mins no problem. (Except the screen is really small LOL) I've had NFS:MW running in demo mode for about 2 hours now. Weird. Oh well, the kid should be happy.
Post by: ExitRooster on May 07, 2007, 03:55:00 PM
SO.....
For the last few times - My 360 had this claimed ring of death - Shutting it off and restarting it usually worked. Till the other day - Now, it's just totally dead - ring of death is all I get, no matter how long I try, no matter what position the 360 sits.
So I call MS support - Long story short - They want me to PAY $137 to have it repaired!! (because the warranty expired in Feb/06). Is that total crap or what?? Is there anyone I can speak with that will handle this matter, or am I totally screwed. Box is totally stock. But from what I read here and elsewhere - manufacturing process is 100% to blame - WHY should I have to pay for that? Looking for help here.. Anyone?
Post by: nagamin on May 14, 2009, 02:58:00 PM
Those are good. had been fixed several console with 3RROD. It can be fix your 3RROD console under 30$.
you can see in pinned for E73
it said-
E73: I/O Hardware Error - Couldn't calibrate HSIO Bus from edram: this error is likely caused by a problem with the Ethernet port or supporting control devices.
pls read for pinned post. those are realy good.
I realy appreciate the person who posted those.
Post by: sirkevinevans on November 17, 2009, 03:38:00 PM