Post by: Xbox-Scene on May 22, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
No Digital Video Output (HDMI/DVI) for HD-DVD Xbox 360 Accessory?-- Posted by XanTium on May 22 20:23 EST
Major Nelson's latest blogcast (kinda) confirms (around min. 44:00) that the HD-DVD add-on won't support HDMI or DVI digital video output. That would mean that if and when the film studios decide to support the Image Constraint Token (ICT), the Xbox 360 will be forced to down-res the display output.
The addon will use the video output of the console and while Microsoft still doesn't want to officially deny the possibility of a HDMI cable/pack for the Xbox 360 it doesn't look very likely (also see A/V output). If it really was possible with a simple cable and without internal redesign of the Xbox 360 they would say it, don't you think?:
Quote
Thanks to Mike for the news/transcript.
* Major Nelson (Larry Hyrb): "Talk to me about HDMI. What kind of output is this [HD-DVD accessory] gonna have?"
* Mark (a.k.a. The Xbox Accessories Guy): "The video output is handled by the console. So you're gonna plug in the standard A/V packs that you're already using today... and I think the question is really, "hey, is there gonna be a HDMI pack?" ... You know, we continue to look at that stuff. Today, component is great for HD; lets you get all the signal that you want out on all the TVs that are really out there. We continue to look at this from a market perspective. I think our competitors are doing the same thing, and we'll keep investigating that in the future. Don't really have anything..." (trails off)
In similar news... rumors suggest ICT a non-issue till at least 2010. From hdbeat.com:
Quote
That's the rumor that has been floating around the internet since E3. This German site (translated via Google) claims to have knowledge of a "backroom agreement" between hardware manufacturers and studios that would allow for full-resolution output through analog connectors until at least 2010. The theory is supported by the Xbox 360's HDMI-lacking HD DVD add-on, and the budget PS3's similar lack of a protected output. Still, rumors and back room agreements won't do much to ease the concern of HDTV owners with only analog inputs, and people considering buying a next-gen console to double as a high definition DVD player.
Image Constraint Token (ICT)?
Quote
HD-DVD and Blu-ray players must follow AACS guidelines pertaining to outputs over non-encrypted interfaces. This is set by a flag called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), which restricts the resolution for outputs without HDCP to 960×540. The decision to set the flag to restrict output ("down-convert") is left to the content provider. Warner Pictures is a proponent of ICT, and it is expected that Paramount and Universal will implement down-conversion as well. As of March 2006, 5 of the 6 studios releasing HD DVD content have announced they will not use ICT/down-conversion for the time being. AACS guidelines require that any title that implements the ICT must clearly state so on the packaging.
Post by: Mega_mil on May 22, 2006, 06:13:00 PM
(V)eGa
Post by: Rebelatheart on May 22, 2006, 06:32:00 PM
Who cares about the market. MS should be worried about the future and all the pissed off ppl who bought a device only good for 3yrs.
Since they havent said "yes, we can make a hdmi cable for the 360 as the 360 supports it, but we wont release it until it makes sense", then Id buy it. But since they cant guarantee that they'll make one, and instead are beating around the bush talking all that mumbo jumbo that these companies like to do when they dont wanna admit something, Im passing unless its $99 like i said.
They just took away all my excitement for this add-on.
Post by: smileboot on May 22, 2006, 06:33:00 PM
Post by: nightwulf28 on May 22, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
edit: spelling
This post has been edited by nightwulf28: May 23 2006, 01:59 AM
Post by: rasstar on May 22, 2006, 06:48:00 PM
I know I am on the majority on this one. Not as many people care about HDMI or HD movies right now.
Post by: Heet on May 22, 2006, 06:56:00 PM
In a year or two when they are within reach that is. Till then dvd is good enough for me.
I rip movies from 8GB to 1.5GB like most in these forums do so what do i care LOL.
Post by: sicknasty413 on May 22, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
hmm, youd think a multi-billion dollar company would invest some of that money into what people want/need/and whats to come... but ehh, whatev. I wasnt gonna get one anyways.
Post by: Lizard King on May 22, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
The promises that these companies were spreading were insane now when you look back at them (things like full audio soundtracks being in-cluded on the DVD movies, seamless branching for director's cuts type issues, divx discs killing rentals), and while people predicted Divx would not succeed, I think people were reluctant to spend $100 more for a Divx player (which also played DVDs) up until 1999 when divx folded. When this happened, you could get a player for about $200-$250, and I picked up one. The battle was won, I would not get stuck with a losing format.
Fast Forward to DVD-R and +R. Both good formats in their own right, but I wouldn't take sides. When dual format units arrived, I got on board with a burner for the PC quickly. While I prefer -R for the compatibility, +R seems more popular. An issue? No because I can use both. In this case, I do not care which format wins, as I will not be left in the dark.
Super Audio CD and DVD-Audio can both be great, especially when an artist plans for multi-channel (like The Flaming Lips' Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots), but it just isn't catching on. Clumsy disc interfaces, stupid format restrictions, etc. The Dualdisc and SACD Hybrid discs are keeping the formats alive otherwise. My latest DVD player features both formats, because AGAIN, I didn't want the losing side of this.
Now we have Blue Ray and HD Dvd. I think consumers are a bit more tech savvy, and with a few format wars still fresh, and DVD quality still acceptable for the masses, I'm guessing that most people will wait to see either a prominent winner, or a dual format player. I know I am. Format Wars only hurt consumers.
So how does this relate to the Xbox HD player?
You now have a single mode player that may or may not have the movies you want to get. I'm sure that HD will have some titles that Blue Ray does not, and I'm sure there will be titles available on both, but I know one thing for sure: There will be some Blue Ray titles not available on HD. Add the that the ICT issue from lack of HDMI/DVI and this HD dvd player seems like a baby step. Maybe it's training wheels for a full featured player, and hopefully the price reflects that.
In my opinion, the HD player has three strikes against it. lack of HDMI/DVI and resulting ICT issues, single format and add-on. Im curious to see how it is percieved and purchased.
This post has been edited by Lizard King: May 23 2006, 02:04 AM
Post by: assmonkey on May 22, 2006, 07:08:00 PM
Post by: kidkinetix on May 22, 2006, 07:08:00 PM
QUOTE(assmonkey @ May 23 2006, 01:39 AM) 
i really care less for hdmi untill there protection kicks in,thats the day people will go apeshit.
Exactly, the funny part about this ICT crap is that it will probably get reverse engineered within a year and people who want to record 720/1080 content will be able to do so regardless, but they'll do it digitally with a computer, not by cabling directly to the player.
Post by: BasicAir on May 22, 2006, 07:51:00 PM
I'm not happy about them saying the HD-DVD addon, FOR NOW MS hasn't made an HDMI cable for it, but I'm not surprised and I stress the fact that this is just the decision as of RIGHT NOW.
Besides, I'm an A/V enthusiast and always have been, done years of advanced tech support for DirecTV about HTDV signals and troubleshooting and such, and so on and so forth, and I can tell you that a 720P movie or a 1080i movie on a good component cable (YPbPr/YCbCr) such as the Monster component gold-plated component cable for the 360 versus that of a potential HDMI cable you wouldn't notice much of a difference at all.
Even at 1080P, when HD-DVD starts releasing movies in 1080P (for now they still aren't, and I haven't researched WHY they don't want to yet, but they just haven't yet even though they can and have even said it would be easilly done), you won't notice hardly much of a difference at all.
Let's take the Xbox 360 component cables that come with it, though -- they are not high quality. Since every video cable except DVI and HDMI are analog cables, the higher-quality the cable is the better your picture will be. This means if I put back on my 360 component cables made by MS that came with my 360 and took off my Monster ones, sure, I'd notice a slight quality downgrade. Would it be much? No, and as a matter of fact the average person, especially adults, wouldn't tell hardly any difference even if you put two 360's side by side with one running the stock component cables and the other the Monster component cables.
Being such a big A/V enthusiast, however, I can tell the difference with my Monster component 360 cables because I look for differences and such. To me, the minor difference is worth the money, but to others it's not.
Now let's say you have one of the standalone Toshiba HD-DVD standalone units already (whether it's the $500 or $700 model, it doesn't matter). Let's say you have two of them and two of the same 720P native television as well and are playing the same HD-DVD movie in each player and have both televisions, let's say 50", side-by-side. Let us say that one of them is running to the same model TV the best component cables on the market (again, which is analog) and the other is running HDMI (same as DVI but also carries a DD5.1 signal with it, too - and - this is not analog, but digital as mentioned earlier).
How much of a difference would you see between these two side-by-side 720P TV's? It would be minimal. I've done tests like this (not with 1080P -- yet) but with every other resolution so I know what I'm talking about. The same would go for 1080i. The difference, if estimated, would be something well under a 10% quality difference in the component cables.
Let's say you have cheaper component cables, though. Ahhhh.... now you'll notice maybe up to a 10% difference or so. Why? Again, it's as simple as this: Component cables are analog and not digital. Even if you had the cheapest HDMI cable on the market and compare it to the most expensive HDMI cable on the market, you won't see a difference in quality and the same goes for DVI; why? They're digital-signal carrying cables, not analog like every other cable type.
This just goes to show many things come in to play. Even other things such as if the HDTV set is plasma, DLP, projection, or LCD... it all makes a difference, though it's minimal.
So what am I trying to get at? Sure an HDMI cable to my 50" DLP from the new HD-DVD addon when it comes out would provide a better picture than the component cables, but not by much at all - but definately more if you have cheap component cables like the ones that came with the 360.
Also let's not get off the point of the subject -- There is still a very good chance that MS will release a HDMI cable down the road (if it's possible somehow since the 360 does all the processing -- I don't personally know).
High-quality, gold-plated component cables versus cheapo-deapo ones like what comes with the 360 will show a better picture and the 24 karat gold ones by Monster really surprised me with the quality difference on the 360 and that's saying a lot since given all my previous experiments comparing this and that, this cable, that cable, this resolution, that resolution, this TV, that TV -- I expected to notice a difference, sure, but the Monster 360 component cables give me such a nicer picture than the MS component cables, and again -- when and if I get (if I can) an HDMI cable for my HD-DVD addon for my 360, I guarantee you there won't be much of a difference -- seriously. You would honestly have to put it side by side with another, replica setup to really see the difference and again I would say it'd be under 10% in quality which is hardly noticable, anyway.
MY BOTTOM LINE: It shouldn't make much of a difference AND, if MS can do it, they WILL come out with an HDMI cable for the drive because they just aren't that stupid NOT to.
God Bless and thanks for your time.
I know I'll get some people disagreeing but hey, I don't care -- I have the hands on experience and have done side-by-sides too many times to count and I know I haven't said anything untruthful in this entire post.
-Air (see sig for contact)
Post by: ebrunn on May 22, 2006, 07:55:00 PM
Post by: sick_mate_xbox on May 22, 2006, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: Jman232 on May 22, 2006, 08:02:00 PM
SD-480 ?D-720 (I think it's ED) and HD-1080 are the resolutions- horizontal pixels that is the standard for digital television. Please correct me if I have any of my info incorrect and please cite your reference. Thanks and I don't really see what the big deal is. The cable and video switch is way cheaper for component anyway. DVD wars, and cable wars in the backround... Just have to wait it out to see who wins. I don't want a player that turns out to be like the old beta-VHS or the video disks (early 80's with the guts that stay inside the player).
Post by: nightwulf28 on May 22, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 08:22 PM)
Settle down people, come on now.
I'm not happy about them saying the HD-DVD addon, FOR NOW MS hasn't made an HDMI cable for it, but I'm not surprised and I stress the fact that this is just the decision as of RIGHT NOW.
Besides, I'm an A/V enthusiast and always have been, done years of advanced tech support for DirecTV about HTDV signals and troubleshooting and such, and so on and so forth, and I can tell you that a 720P movie or a 1080i movie on a good component cable (YPbPr/YCbCr) such as the Monster component gold-plated component cable for the 360 versus that of a potential HDMI cable you wouldn't notice much of a difference at all.
Even at 1080P, when HD-DVD starts releasing movies in 1080P (for now they still aren't, and I haven't researched WHY they don't want to yet, but they just haven't yet even though they can and have even said it would be easilly done), you won't notice hardly much of a difference at all.
Let's take the Xbox 360 component cables that come with it, though -- they are not high quality. Since every video cable except DVI and HDMI are analog cables, the higher-quality the cable is the better your picture will be. This means if I put back on my 360 component cables made by MS that came with my 360 and took off my Monster ones, sure, I'd notice a slight quality downgrade. Would it be much? No, and as a matter of fact the average person, especially adults, wouldn't tell hardly any difference even if you put two 360's side by side with one running the stock component cables and the other the Monster component cables.
Being such a big A/V enthusiast, however, I can tell the difference with my Monster component 360 cables because I look for differences and such. To me, the minor difference is worth the money, but to others it's not.
Now let's say you have one of the standalone Toshiba HD-DVD standalone units already (whether it's the $500 or $700 model, it doesn't matter). Let's say you have two of them and two of the same 720P native television as well and are playing the same HD-DVD movie in each player and have both televisions, let's say 50", side-by-side. Let us say that one of them is running to the same model TV the best component cables on the market (again, which is analog) and the other is running HDMI (same as DVI but also carries a DD5.1 signal with it, too - and - this is not analog, but digital as mentioned earlier).
How much of a difference would you see between these two side-by-side 720P TV's? It would be minimal. I've done tests like this (not with 1080P -- yet) but with every other resolution so I know what I'm talking about. The same would go for 1080i. The difference, if estimated, would be something well under a 10% quality difference in the component cables.
Let's say you have cheaper component cables, though. Ahhhh.... now you'll notice maybe up to a 10% difference or so. Why? Again, it's as simple as this: Component cables are analog and not digital. Even if you had the cheapest HDMI cable on the market and compare it to the most expensive HDMI cable on the market, you won't see a difference in quality and the same goes for DVI; why? They're digital-signal carrying cables, not analog like every other cable type.
This just goes to show many things come in to play. Even other things such as if the HDTV set is plasma, DLP, projection, or LCD... it all makes a difference, though it's minimal.
So what am I trying to get at? Sure an HDMI cable to my 50" DLP from the new HD-DVD addon when it comes out would provide a better picture than the component cables, but not by much at all - but definately more if you have cheap component cables like the ones that came with the 360.
Also let's not get off the point of the subject -- There is still a very good chance that MS will release a HDMI cable down the road (if it's possible somehow since the 360 does all the processing -- I don't personally know).
High-quality, gold-plated component cables versus cheapo-deapo ones like what comes with the 360 will show a better picture and the 24 karat gold ones by Monster really surprised me with the quality difference on the 360 and that's saying a lot since given all my previous experiments comparing this and that, this cable, that cable, this resolution, that resolution, this TV, that TV -- I expected to notice a difference, sure, but the Monster 360 component cables give me such a nicer picture than the MS component cables, and again -- when and if I get (if I can) an HDMI cable for my HD-DVD addon for my 360, I guarantee you there won't be much of a difference -- seriously. You would honestly have to put it side by side with another, replica setup to really see the difference and again I would say it'd be under 10% in quality which is hardly noticable, anyway.
MY BOTTOM LINE: It shouldn't make much of a difference AND, if MS can do it, they WILL come out with an HDMI cable for the drive because they just aren't that stupid NOT to.
God Bless and thanks for your time.
I know I'll get some people disagreeing but hey, I don't care -- I have the hands on experience and have done side-by-sides too many times to count and I know I haven't said anything untruthful in this entire post.
-Air (see sig for contact)
great write up, really good. Question. Where did you buy your monster 360 cables?
Post by: BasicAir on May 22, 2006, 07:33:00 PM
QUOTE(Lizard King @ May 23 2006, 01:32 AM)
Now we have Blue Ray and HD Dvd. I think consumers are a bit more tech savvy, and with a few format wars still fresh, and DVD quality still acceptable for the masses, I'm guessing that most people will wait to see either a prominent winner, or a dual format player. I know I am. Format Wars only hurt consumers.
I could comment on most all of your post but this is the only thing I wanted to comment on. I won't go all wild with an essay-length post again so bare with me, people.
I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB. With this being the case, HD-DVD has nothing to worry about, really. A 2.5 hour long 720P movie with DD5.1 audio is around 10-12 GB and the same goes for if it was in 1080i. And no, unfortunately Blu-Ray fans, even 1080P movies will be on HD-DVD when they decide to release them in 1080P and it will still have around 1/2 of the 30GB disc at least for extras, etc, so the difference of 30GB versus 50GB really amounts to: nothing significant at all.
Also, for the record, I was a Blu-Ray fan before probably any of the people on this board ever heard of it. I've known about it coming out since many years ago when even on google a search for Blu-Ray would turn up only 2 hits, both to the same article, and no -- I am not exaggerating. I'm not bragging, but just trying to say that I was all hyped up about it and couldn't wait for years to come so I could buy one.
Then a year or two later I started to hear of HD-DVD.... My immediate reaction was "come on, Blu-Ray is already being developed; why are other companies pushing for another format to compete with Blu-Ray?"
To be honest, I was pissed about it because I thought what is going to happen with the war WOULD happen. Nonetheless, I looked up and researched HD-DVD and over time I began to realize how it really did have much more going for it than Blu-Ray and really is a better format. I never thought it would happen, but I jumped off the Blu-Ray bandwagon and onto the HD-DVD bandwagon.
That's all I wanted to say. This all happened about 18 months ago, so MS and Sony had no say in my decision on which format was better and would win the war and get my personal support. But anyway, keep in mind that Holographic discs are in early development that can hold 100 GB on a single layer, 300 GB triple-layered.... THAT my friends, will be the future I'd imagine.
QUOTE(nightwulf28 @ May 23 2006, 02:33 AM)
great write up, really good. Question. Where did you buy your monster 360 cables?
Locally, every store was sold out so I got it off the old trusty source we all know and love..... eBay. LOL
Post by: Lizard King on May 22, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 09:40 PM)
I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB.
...and unfortunatly, customers can qualtify 50GB as being best. With the proliferation of iPods and the like, people are able to grasp what 50GB can contain. It is not uncommon for people to have a legitimate 40GB digital music library. It's a number people can understand. My scanner is 300x300, so that means a 1200x1200 scanner is better, right? Best doesn't always win. Sony's been losing ground on their proprietary formats, but I'm curious to see how it turns out.
I will not pick sides, as it doesn't matter until the dust settles. Who cares if HD is technically best if Blue Ray wins?
Even if a HDMI/DVI cable comes out, isn't the 360 only capable of an analog signal? So even with the HDMI/DVI cable that may or may not come out, the ICT (if enabled) will still not work, right?
Post by: heraldoffailure on May 22, 2006, 08:23:00 PM
QUOTE(Lizard King @ May 23 2006, 03:22 AM)
...and unfortunatly, customers can qualtify 50GB as being best. With the proliferation of iPods and the like, people are able to grasp what 50GB can contain. It is not uncommon for people to have a legitimate 40GB digital music library. It's a number people can understand. My scanner is 300x300, so that means a 1200x1200 scanner is better, right? Best doesn't always win. Sony's been losing ground on their proprietary formats, but I'm curious to see how it turns out.
I will not pick sides, as it doesn't matter until the dust settles. Who cares if HD is technically best if Blue Ray wins?
Even if a HDMI/DVI cable comes out, isn't the 360 only capable of an analog signal? So even with the HDMI/DVI cable that may or may not come out, the ICT (if enabled) will still not work, right?
Exactly, just look at Betamax and VHS, same war, quality over capacity, and we all know who won. It came down to who could contain an entire feature length film. It wasn't who performed better, it was can my favorite movie be bought on one peice of media.
Post by: fahrenheit on May 22, 2006, 08:31:00 PM
Also, I won't be in the least bit surprised if MS make this little drive so damn loud, that no one will want to play a movie in it no matter how pretty they look. But one thing in their favour is that the public at large are generally a bunch of muppets and will probably buy in if the price is right.
Post by: gg22mm on May 22, 2006, 09:13:00 PM
QUOTE(Jman232 @ May 22 2006, 09:33 PM)
I get full HDTV (1080i) programming from my cable provider. I have a TV, which supports both HDMI and Component cables. I went and bought an HDMI cable and couldn't tell a difference between the two in 480, 720, and 1080. $60 waste if you ask me. Oh and the difference between HDMI and DVI is the connector of course and HDMI has a sound signal. But I use optical for my sound on my xbox1, 360, and digital HD set top box (cable) so big deal. They also make cables and connectors for transition between HDMI and DVI. As far as I know the signal on the component is digital. I use a single RCA cable (orange) for digital sound on my DVD player. Xbox1 supports up to 1080i(Entr Mtrx1 is the only game I know that plays in 1080), Xbox 360 also with a lot more games in 1080 (look at the back of the game box to see which formats the game supports). Also, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we watching DVD's at 720 right now?
SD-480 ?D-720 (I think it's ED) and HD-1080 are the resolutions- horizontal pixels that is the standard for digital television. Please correct me if I have any of my info incorrect and please cite your reference. Thanks and I don't really see what the big deal is. The cable and video switch is way cheaper for component anyway. DVD wars, and cable wars in the backround... Just have to wait it out to see who wins. I don't want a player that turns out to be like the old beta-VHS or the video disks (early 80's with the guts that stay inside the player).
My friend:
480i SD
480p ED - Current Dvd's max res.
720p-1080i - HD
1080p - Not available sources yet for tv
No references to cite. Take it or leave it
Post by: Jman232 on May 22, 2006, 09:44:00 PM
QUOTE(BasicAir @ May 22 2006, 07:40 PM)
I just want to say that bar-none, HD-DVD has every technical reason to win the format war. HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray in every catagory of great importance, really, except that it's maximum capacity is 30GB whild B-R is 50GB. With this being the case, HD-DVD has nothing to worry about, really. A 2.5 hour long 720P movie with DD5.1 audio is around 10-12 GB and the same goes for if it was in 1080i. And no, unfortunately Blu-Ray fans, even 1080P movies will be on HD-DVD when they decide to release them in 1080P and it will still have around 1/2 of the 30GB disc at least for extras, etc, so the difference of 30GB versus 50GB really amounts to: nothing significant at all.
I have a quick question...
I am currently streaming 1080i from my Motorolla 6800 cable box to my Mac for recording via firewire. Its video format is m2t. I am interested in buying a burner (for the comp) and a player (for the TV) so I can playback in my entertainment room. Right now I am getting two hours of video in about 12.5 gigs. I can't get playback on anything larger than 640x352 as an mp4 (after transcoding) on XBMC so I am out of luck there as far as I know. I saw they have a blue ray VAIO setup on the Sony website. I imagine it will end up being cheaper in the end buying an HD burner up along with the 360 player. The blueray will have more space for my purpose, but will it have any difference in playback? I would like to also see what video formats the players will support (most likely one at first). I imagine I will get some loss after after streaming to transcoding (to get it playing in the entertainment room) to playback. I guess it will come down to price and what the final standard will be. I just don't know if I should wait it out or not.
BTW DVRs run out of space- that's why I wan't to do this-if anyone was wondering.
Thanks, Basic Air
Post by: JoBlo69 on May 22, 2006, 09:45:00 PM
xbox 360 core --- no hdd, wired controller, composite cable $299
xbox 360 Preimium --- 20 GB hdd, wireless controller, headset, component cable $399
In the future, about a year i think....
xbox 360 (whatever) --- 100 GB hdd, built in HD-DVD with HDMI support $599??
What do you guys think???
Post by: mgamer20o0 on May 22, 2006, 11:01:00 PM
Post by: izeman on May 23, 2006, 01:59:00 AM
QUOTE(Rebelatheart @ May 23 2006, 01:03 AM)
....
Since they havent said "yes, we can make a hdmi cable for the 360 as the 360 supports it, but we wont release it until it makes sense", then Id buy it. But since they cant guarantee that they'll make one, and instead are beating around the bush talking all that mumbo jumbo that these companies like to do when they dont wanna admit something, Im passing unless its $99 like i said.
....
you forgot to mention that hdmi ALREADY would make sense! if they sell a hdmi adapter cable i'll be the first to buy one. digital image transfer from the box to the plasma display is (most of the times) ways better than analogue signals.
just my 2c
ize|man
Post by: izeman on May 23, 2006, 02:11:00 AM
here in german speaking europe they just launched the first channels broadcasting HDTV. and guess what: high res playback is limited to HDMI ONLY!! there is NO high res video when you connect your display with YUV (it's downscaled to ED).
so now guess what will happen with all those movies to be released on blue ray or hd-hvd. correct: exactly the same ...
so if there is no way of getting an hdmi output for my 360 -> forget it
regards ize|man
Post by: trey85stang on May 23, 2006, 02:40:00 AM
Post by: Martinchris23 on May 23, 2006, 02:55:00 AM
QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ May 23 2006, 03:31 AM)
Isnt ps3 having dual hdmi ports.. or did they change that? i remember them mentioning it a while back.. ehh idk
Sony have done the usual and sold a 'flying car'.
The core version will have analog output only, with the premium having only the one HDMI output.
I would be a lot more comfortable with HDMI output, although natively the 360 cannot handle anything digital save the audio.
Once again I think the early adopters will suffer because of this. I'm not too worried about quality as my VGA output is pretty sweet - I watch TS HD movies through XBMC Extender which are simply stunning
For the HD-DVD addon to succeed, it would need to be sold at a VERY reasonable price. $99 would meet this perfectly. It would be affordable enough so that in a few years you wouldn't begrudge buying another HD-DVD/BluRay player where the prices would be more affordable anyway. It would also prompt more people to buy a 360. By 2010, we'll be talking about the next incarnation of Xbox (IMHO as it's a typical lifespan of a games console). Let's worry about it *then*.
Post by: Lizard King on May 23, 2006, 06:17:00 AM
QUOTE(OEM @ May 23 2006, 03:28 AM)
Monster cables are often a waste of money unless you need extra long cables. I know it's not politically correct to say it but it's true
Yeah, well.....often monster cables are sold with marketting inaccuracies - HOWEVER, there is no other quality alternative. Give me a breakout box with no cables and Ill crimp my own Canare/Belden setup.
I use Monster spades on my speaker terminals and have used a Monster Line Conditioner in the past (use a Panamax now). They do make good stuff - I wouldn't say their standard speaker cables are better than braided cat 5, but some people would. The Monster 360 cable may or may not be better than OEM - this guy feels that it is, but even so, he states the degree is very small. At least it's not worse.
Post by: icedemon360 on May 23, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Post by: Landlocked on May 23, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
2010 as a deadline for now low-res flags? Yeah right. Wait people start making HDMI copies and cracking the disc protection.
Post by: rasstar on May 23, 2006, 03:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Landlocked @ May 23 2006, 08:25 PM)
MS drops the ball on this again. I'm a home theater nut - and since, according to MS. the standard drive is all that will be needed for gaming, I'm not going to buy a drive that may be crippled soon.
2010 as a deadline for now low-res flags? Yeah right. Wait people start making HDMI copies and cracking the disc protection.
You can't be a theatre nut if you are relying on a gaming console to meet your home theatre needs. If you were a true fan you would go out and buy a stand alone player. Gaming consoles are specifically designed for gaming...some idiot just decided to give you one or two extra features.
Post by: IntestineMan on May 23, 2006, 05:35:00 PM
By the time 2010 comes around we will be able to by stand-alone HD-DVD players with hdmi/hdcp at WalMart for $25 and Xbox360/PS3 etc. will be irrelevant.
rasstar, Xbox360 is designed for more than gaming in mind. It has built-in DVD player, MCE integration and even plays audio and pictures from standard XP PCs (even portable music players). The upcoming HD-DVD add-on will give it another option. Some are using their Xbox 360 to stream HD content over lan right now to their HDTV from MCE. To make another arguement, we have played with friends on several occasions these DVD games like "Scene-It" and they can be pretty fun to play. Based on your arguments, DVD players should not be allowed to play anything but movies! I think it is neat when people find uses for things other than they are intended for.
I personally use a mod'd Xbox with XBMC and use it for most of my music/video streaming and even DVD playback. I also own an Xbox 360 and I play a few games on it. I have it setup with an MCE PC but I don't like how it organizes everything. I do consider myself a HT nut! I own a couple DVD players but I find XBMC to be good enough for me right now. It may technically not be the best video output quality but I am not claiming that it is and it looks suprisingly good on my 100" screen. The way I am doing everything is so I can upgrade to whatever else suits my needs in the future. If I had to upgrade it right now, I would probably use a Mac Mini. Buying HD-DVD or BlueRay at this time does not make any sense for me... no movies that I like, the player appears thrown together quickly and is slow and buggy (I have seen one at local store and had a chance to play with it for a while) and most importantly I do not watch movies over and over... and over like some people seem to do - once is usually good enough for me and I usually rent movies.
oh, before I forget... about the claims that HDMI is so superior since it is "pure digital", and is immune to any sort of variation in cabling quality etc. - do a google search for "hdmi eye pattern" and maybe even "hdmi cliff effect"! It is interesting to discover that HDMI has its flaws.
Post by: Lizard King on May 23, 2006, 06:15:00 PM
QUOTE(IntestineMan @ May 23 2006, 07:42 PM)
rasstar, Xbox360 is designed for more than gaming in mind. It has built-in DVD player, MCE integration and even plays audio and pictures from standard XP PCs (even portable music players). The upcoming HD-DVD add-on will give it another option. Some are using their Xbox 360 to stream HD content over lan right now to their HDTV from MCE. To make another arguement, we have played with friends on several occasions these DVD games like "Scene-It" and they can be pretty fun to play. Based on your arguments, DVD players should not be allowed to play anything but movies! I think it is neat when people find uses for things other than they are intended for.
Sorry buddy, I'm gonna have to agree with Rasstar on this one. The 360 may have features listed about the ability to play cd's mp3's and DVD's, but it's pretty poor in execution. DVD artifacting is worse than my 8 year old RCA deck, CD audio has no bass (not subwoofer channel, limited low frequency in the 2 channel proper audio signal), and $30 handheld MP3 players have better organization and display features. A HTPC, the Xbox is not.
DVD players should be allowed for nothing but movies, Mine's sitting right above my CD player which gets less use for audio than the turntable on the pedestal next to it.
Even the original Xbox has bad DVD playback (when not running XBMC). It'll be a hard sell to get me using the 360 for anything but games - ie, what it was designed (primarily) for. An all in one device as a gimmick ONLY.
Post by: heraldoffailure on May 23, 2006, 07:57:00 PM
QUOTE(Lizard King @ May 24 2006, 01:22 AM)
Sorry buddy, I'm gonna have to agree with Rasstar on this one. The 360 may have features listed about the ability to play cd's mp3's and DVD's, but it's pretty poor in execution. DVD artifacting is worse than my 8 year old RCA deck, CD audio has no bass (not subwoofer channel, limited low frequency in the 2 channel proper audio signal), and $30 handheld MP3 players have better organization and display features. A HTPC, the Xbox is not.
DVD players should be allowed for nothing but movies, Mine's sitting right above my CD player which gets less use for audio than the turntable on the pedestal next to it.
Even the original Xbox has bad DVD playback (when not running XBMC). It'll be a hard sell to get me using the 360 for anything but games - ie, what it was designed (primarily) for. An all in one device as a gimmick ONLY.
And-freaking-how. The orig xbox is a sad sad music box without XBMC and the 360 is a sad sad media player, so much potential but limited so much by corporate initiative. I love how Peter Moore talks about PS3, Sony, and a hidden corporate initiative, but MS neutered the 360s media playback because of their corporate push for DRM. Leave the corporations to the hardware, and the scene to the unlimited creativity to unleash upon it.
Post by: leorimolo on August 16, 2006, 03:05:00 PM
youll see
Post by: Reaper527 on August 17, 2006, 09:20:00 AM
QUOTE(Obveron @ Aug 16 2006, 08:51 AM)
Burning to blu-ray will probably be useless since you wont have the HDCP code (unless its hacked). I'd recommend using your computer to output to you HDTV via component, or DVI/HDMI (if your TV will accept digital signals without HDCP). As for storage, if your hard drive isnt good enough, try using mpeg4 to compress 1080i content to fit on a DVD-R/+R.. wmv-hd have good results using this idea.. but you need a fast computer to decode.
There are various videocards on the market that can output to a HDTV.. or you can get a RGB to Component transcoder box.
why did you bump a 4 month old topic thats full of old, inaccurate information? this threads just going to cause confusion now that there is a recent one where MS says they are possibly releasing a dvi/hdmi cable.