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Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat => Topic started by: XanTium on November 04, 2005, 10:04:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: XanTium on November 04, 2005, 10:04:00 PM

Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability? -- Posted by XanTium on November 5 00:04
From news.com:

Because of the iPod's digital-rights-management software, the Xbox 360 cannot stream songs purchased from Apple's iTunes Music Store, Xbox digital-entertainment executive producer Jeff Henshaw said. Those songs, he said, will appear grayed out in menus on the Xbox.
There's a reason for that: Microsoft built its iPod connection without the support of the folks at Apple.
Henshaw said Microsoft tried to "engage" Apple in a partnership that would have officially made the iPod interoperable with Xbox, but Apple rejected the overture.

Apple has been pitching a very different approach for those who want to connect to its popular music player. Through its so-called "Made for iPod" program, the Cupertino, Calif., company is attempting to collect royalties from the maker of any accessory device that interfaces with an iPod through its "dock connector."

But because Microsoft is not working within the "Made for iPod" program, David Cole, president of DFC Intelligence (an entertainment industry analysis firm), thinks Apple may object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability.
"I think it depends on whether (Apple sees) it stealing any of their thunder," said Cole. "The fact of the matter is, Microsoft has been a big software and services competitor (of Apple's). And that might cause (Apple) more worry than if it was Dell or somebody else."

Richard Doherty, president of analyst firm Envisioneering, went so far as to predict that Apple will fight back once the new Xbox launches.
"We expect Apple will have some retaliation ready within days or hours of the Xbox 360 shipping," Doherty said, referring to potential new iPod firmware or a new version of iTunes that could disable interoperability. "If you have iTunes prior to last May, it may work with the Xbox 360 forever, but if you accept (Apple's) updates, it may work differently."

Read More: news.com

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Master3xBOx on November 05, 2005, 12:46:00 AM

Just one more reason for me to hate apple. They can't get past themselves to actually work with MS to allow it to connect to the 360. Even though having it work with virtually anything will allow them to make more money by selling more of them.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: ebrunn on November 05, 2005, 01:25:00 AM

one of the coolest things on the 360 is its ability to connect to things like the iPod and other shit. If apple pulls that bullshit, I guess I will have to just stream it over my network

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 01:49:00 AM

Why doesn't anyone read this as MS not playing ball???

Apple would allow it but MS won't do what EVERYONE else that hooks into the iPod does, pay the royalties... They pay royalties for the cdrom logo, the dvd logo and it's use, and I'm sure they get a kick back for wma enabled devices. Apple is just saying you have to do what everyone else does and just because you are the great big MS doesn't mean you are gonna get special care.

Frankly I don't like Apple either (why can't the just cave on the two mouse button on laptops and their default mouse) BUT I respect their right to demand the same respect from MS as they and MS does from others.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JohnnyVegas on November 05, 2005, 03:01:00 AM

I'm with you on that. MS should play ball if thats the rules Apple set.

My issue is more with Apple and rights management all together. When I got an MP3 player I thought of the IPOD but after reading how you can't do this and that I went with iRiver. WAY better and I can put whatever MP3, WMA or data, for that matter. I like.

I find it funny how Apple finally gets a worth while product then limits the users on every level. eeerrr the Mac... "Here's a nice product... but you can only use it the way we tell you to with a ton of retarded limits. Have fun!"

Why do people buy this thing. Never understand it. With this just another reason to buy another MP3 player. Incompatability with my new 360.

But maybe a LIVE patch that MS can charge $20 for will give you the IPOD rights again.

Go APPLE!!

This post has been edited by JohnnyVegas: Nov 5 2005, 11:02 AM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 03:02:00 AM

I've been forced to use a mac lately (my business partner in my production company and our main video editing computer is a mac) and it's not THAT bad but I agree there are some things where I'm like "LET ME CHANGE THAT!!" and it wouldn't take much code to allow the changes.... so fustrating.

The iPod isn't so bad... I have an older 10 gig from that same guy and I refused to load iTunes and so I found a couple of sweet free small apps that allow you to use it close to like a regular mp3 player and they can be run OFF the iPod which is nice. Yamipod (to load files) and Sharepod (allows you to offload files from the iPod).

It's a nice player but I still think it's WAY overpriced and hyped... you are buying the name and the "cool" factor of owning an "iPod". People don't even call regular mp3 players "mp3 players" anymore... it's "my iPod" when they have an iRiver

VERY clever marketing by Apple and that gives them the right to charge those royalties to others (marketing isn't cheap).

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: incognegro on November 05, 2005, 07:08:00 AM

hmmmmmm if you ask me though, i think this is a bitch move on Apple's part. I plan on getting an iRiver so it really doesnt matter to me whether it works or not. I undertsand what theyre trying to do but u have to admit its not "humblest" way of doing things. So basically MS has to pay to promote Apples product for them? Yes its cross marketing in the sense that both products (360, Ipod) are being promoted simultaneously but its quite obvious is not working against apple but working with them to get their product to a larger crowd. Its a win-win. Its in bad taste that apple wouldnt want to work with them on this.

On the flipside i agree that MS wasnt playing by apple's rules but me personally, i would have bend the rules after seeing what is MS is trying accomplish.

Anyways, i know for sure if MS adheres to Apples rules they wont have to pay any royalties; WE ARE! They probably will charge us to get it to work and I wont be wasting my money on that shit!.........Long live iRiver!!!!

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: SniperKilla on November 05, 2005, 07:40:00 AM

exactly why you dont buy apple.... the ipods are trash anyway

glad my creative zen sleek will work for years to come

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Australian Rat on November 05, 2005, 08:04:00 AM

This is pretty funny, post this exact same thing at an ipod site and you'd get everyone saying how MS are the bastards for not simply paying a small royalty to apple. I think it's a little bit of both Apple and MS, but that's to be expected anyway.

Personally, I really couldn't care who makes what. I like my xbox, but I also like my iPod. I use Windows but I like iTunes.

Also to do with the main complaint with the iPod where it doesn't play wma files, unless you encoded your entire CD collection already into this format then it's going to make little difference. Plus you can re-encode wma's using iTunes into iPod readable ones. I do think the lack of compatibility on the new video ipod though is a joke however. Bad move on apple's part.

On the other hand if you like your Zen or iRiver, go for it. If your going to shell out a load of money for an mp3 player, you should get the one you want. For a lot of people, all they want is something thats simple to use and plays music.

Just my 2 cents

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: rasmithuk on November 05, 2005, 08:58:00 AM

I'd ignore that 'expert' thinking that Apple will update the iPods to stop this because it's pointless. The only way of doing this would be for Apple to change the format of the HD from FAT to something else, probably HFS+, and by doing that no-one could use the iPod as portable storage anymore (something that iPods are used a lot for).
Letting people use and iPod on the 360 isn't going to hurt Apple in any-way.

The funny thing is the iPod actaully has no restirctions on it as a Mass storage device. The restriction is that the music playing part only reads from the iTunes DB on the HDD.
Remember that both Creative and iRiver have signed up for and produce 'Plays for sure' devices. You might want to read what's required to get this:
http://go.MS.com/fwlink/?LinkId=40517
http://go.MS.com/fwlink/?LinkId=40518
Basically it's everything from secure partitions, write only partitions, secure clocks, content use monitoring and auto expiration of content. WMP10 DRM can be much more restrictive then anything Apple have implemented it's just that they haven't started using it yet, but it's all there waiting to be turned on.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: twistedsymphony on November 05, 2005, 10:31:00 AM

Right now no one is to blame for anything...

The Ipod works as a simple mass storage device in most respects. This is a feature of the ipod that should require no royalties or otherwise to function properly. MS wants to have the 360 connect to any and all mass storage devices.

If apple updates their firmware they're going out of their way to disable a feature to should be freely available without royalties.

Sure MS didn't want to pay royalties, which is why we don't get access to iTunes files. Say it'd add a $1 or 2 per console to add that... OK now how many other companies are you going to pay royalties to just for connectivity? 3, 5, 10, 100? how far do you go with it. MS offers NO EXCLUSIVE CONNECTIVITY outside of their own products, why would they make an exception for Apple?

I wonder if Sony is actually paying royalties to Apple considering they DO have iTunes connectivity.

IMO Apple isn't a bastard until they update their firmware to block 360 connectivity. and MS isn't a bastard in this case at all (can you blame them for trying to maximize connectivity while getting cost out? I'm sure there are lots more people who would be pissed off by a higher price, then people pleased with iPod connectivity).

The best situation is if MS offered a special piece of software (downloaded from XBL or installed from a disc) to allow for iPod connectivity for those who want it. The royalties could be included in the price of that update.
This would have the effect of Apple getting their precious royalties. MS not having to pay any royalties. And no one who doesn't want/need iPod/iTunes connectivity doesn't need to pay for it.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: balupton on November 05, 2005, 12:02:00 PM

i think its time that apple gets their share of monopoly and antitrust law suits.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 01:42:00 PM

QUOTE(balupton @ Nov 5 2005, 12:33 PM)

i think its time that apple gets their share of monopoly and antitrust law suits.

LOL, that's funny .... very rediculous they aren't breaking any laws and as I have stated, I don't like Apple.

I agree with you twisted I don't blame MS, just pointing out how it was funny that everyone jumped on Apple vs seeing the flip side of the coin which is equally valid. I don't think Apple is gonna stop the 360 from connecting to the iPod as a mass storage device, it's pulling off (streaming) music that was put on there for the iPod to play and must be done with iTunes or some other DB driven product (again this sucks but I see how it makes the iPod faster in listing songs.)

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 02:37:00 PM

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Nov 5 2005, 03:32 AM)

Wow, Ive had an iRiver for about a year now and I absolutely hate the thing. Mine was cheaply made and the screen starts to go out. The controls on it suck and it looks way out of proportion. I just got an iPod photo and I will never look back to iRiv-shit-er again. The click wheel on the iPod is lightyears ahead of anything out right now. I havent had any problem putting any type of file on my iPod. Granted I hate wma's for their usually sucky quality. Although other than iPod i hate apple but they got it right on one product atleast.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Jason9875 on November 05, 2005, 02:40:00 PM

QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Nov 5 2005, 02:09 AM)

MS doesn't exactly give you a lot of options to change with Windows, and its looks/interface.
(excluding 3rd party software)

And as for the iPod, I have no problem with it, exspecially the new iPod Nano. I wouldn't mind having one of those, that is if they didn't cost $250.

QUOTE

i think its time that apple gets their share of monopoly and antitrust law suits.

:lol: What exactly have Apple monopolized?
What kind of competition is Apple preventing if they keep the xbox 360 from connecting to the iPod?

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: incognegro on November 05, 2005, 02:14:00 PM

i look at it from both sides, and i do believe we, as in the consumer, shouldnt have to pay for this shit. On the same note though, I dont fault apple for this cause its their hardware and they have the right to charge anyone that wants to fuck wit it. Just like third party controllers and stuff; the companies that make these things have to pay royalties and pass certain quality tests in order to use a companies hardware as a vehicle to market their own product.

Their trying to protect their own intellectual property......

On a side note, doesnt Apple already pay MS for royalties on the iPod?.....lol

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Foe-hammer on November 05, 2005, 02:34:00 PM

QUOTE(JMan8108 @ Nov 5 2005, 02:08 PM)

Granted I hate wma's for their usually sucky quality.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 02:42:00 PM

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Nov 5 2005, 03:41 PM)

WMA's have some of the best quality per bit rate out there. Much better then mp3's.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 03:15:00 PM

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Nov 5 2005, 03:41 PM)

WMA's have some of the best quality per bit rate out there. Much better then mp3's.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Foe-hammer on November 05, 2005, 04:15:00 PM

QUOTE(JMan8108 @ Nov 5 2005, 02:49 PM)

It converts WMAs in my iTunes Library so they can be put onto my iPod. You can completely use it as a portable hard drive. There are many other programs and plug ins you can use to sync it. And once again there are many software apps to upload songs from iPod to your computer. Im sorry but you are very misinformed on a great product.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Joergen on November 05, 2005, 04:34:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 04:45:00 PM

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Nov 5 2005, 05:22 PM)

I'm referring to stock ipods, for freak sake. I realize that you can accomplish my of these things with hacked downloads.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 04:50:00 PM

QUOTE(Joergen @ Nov 5 2005, 05:41 PM)

My brother bought his wife a 4GB ipod mini and is getting the x360 for this christmas. I'm sure he will try to avoid apple's products in the future if they keep rejecting MS' offers for interoperability. Way to shoot yourself in the foot there Jobbs.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Foe-hammer on November 05, 2005, 05:37:00 PM

QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Nov 5 2005, 04:52 PM)

and so am I... stock iPods and free software that isn't "hacked" it's just something someone wrote to share... you aren't violating anything... much worse to mod an xbox yet we are all here most of us anticipating doing just that and we don't see that as a violation. I have never installed anything I didn't want and get lots of use out of that iPod I have, my only complaint is that most people don't have firewire ports so for me and my old iPod that is a problem... but that's life.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 05:46:00 PM

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Nov 5 2005, 06:44 PM)

True, but a stock ipod does not come with this software, and most idots who own ipods are unaware of such software. Apple does not intend their ipod to be used in such a way.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Foe-hammer on November 05, 2005, 05:58:00 PM

QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Nov 5 2005, 05:53 PM)

Those people really don't care anyway so just let them use their stupid iPod and iTunes and think that they are the hippest people out there

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 06:44:00 PM

QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Nov 5 2005, 06:53 PM)

Those people really don't care anyway so just let them use their stupid iPod and iTunes and think that they are the hippest people out there

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 06:54:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 07:21:00 PM

QUOTE(Bogus8 @ Nov 5 2005, 08:01 PM)

Yeah, I can't see much NEED to go over 10 gigs really... I had a computer client of mine that saw me pull out a usb mem stick and was like "oh is that a 1 gig one?" I was like uhh, no just 128mb for what I do with it I really don't need much more than that... she was like "oh, I got a 1 gig one... what does that mean anyway?"

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 07:29:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 07:46:00 PM

I don't know how iTunes works but I know I "won" a free song from them and I knew I wouldn't use it so I sent the code to my brother to use and he emailed me the song that he got with it as a token of appreciation... He is a pure mac man and is not a hacker/pirate at all... so however he did it must be very simple if not semi legit... but I don't know the details as I don't like iTunes or a mac anyway.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 08:00:00 PM

yea but that is why i bought a hi cap. DAP, if i didnt want all my songs with me i could have stayed with my iriver(crappiest thing i have ever bought)

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 08:21:00 PM

QUOTE(JMan8108 @ Nov 5 2005, 09:07 PM)

yea but that is why i bought a hi cap. DAP, if i didnt want all my songs with me i could have stayed with my iriver(crappiest thing i have ever bought)

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 05, 2005, 08:33:00 PM

hell yes i will!! along with all my 50, ludacris, 3 6 mafia, snoop, etc..... lol

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 10:04:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 10:35:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 05, 2005, 11:24:00 PM

I'm not an MS fanboy either.. I feel they both have merit... I just can't stand illogical arguements for one over the other.

*back on topic

So who is paying for the DVD rights this time? we don't have a dvd remote to buy now??? So now I have to pay rights for something I won't use?!

I wouldn't EVER hook up my iPod, or any mp3 player to my 360 but that's just the way it goes... if you want to put that "iPod compatible" sticker on your box you got to pay... same thing with XM and Sirrus radio for cars... I paid for that crap (ability to hook up sirrus) and I never plan on using it with my mp3 capable car stereo deck. It's just the game that everyone plays... and MS in this case is deciding not to play... I'm almost positive that MS gets royalties for WMA capable devices... yet I don't have any wma's *shrug* they get you one way or another... and in reality it's pocket change equal to what we have spent just talking about it in here.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Bogus8 on November 06, 2005, 12:29:00 AM

Well, I think they are asking them to pay for the DRM that Apple pioneered and uses (and let's be honest, Apple was the first to make this all feasable for legal sell of mp3's THEN the rest of the industry jumped on the bandwagon) so just like WMA's from MS they want to get paid for their intellectual property of the DRM code that takes place to insure that the mp3's are legal... and that's MS's goal also... just they would rather brag then be legit in this case.

I SEVERLY doubt that DVD rights have come down all that much since xbox 1 it was just a way for MS to cut cost... I don't have a problem with it... but it's contradictory to not say this is in similar fasion.

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: JMan8108 on November 06, 2005, 08:38:00 PM

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Math1 on November 06, 2005, 10:34:00 PM

If the Xox 360 doesn't play DRM'd files, then why would MS need to pay a fee? It's not like an MP3 on an iPod is any different than an MP3 on any other player. Anyone know if the 360 plays the AAC format stuff?

Title: Apple to object to the Xbox-iPod interoperability?
Post by: Foe-hammer on November 06, 2005, 10:47:00 PM

QUOTE(Math1 @ Nov 6 2005, 09:41 PM)

xboxscene.org forums

Xbox360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat => Topic started by: XanTium on November 04, 2005, 10:04:00 PM